Overtime – Episode #695: David Hogg, Donna Brazile, Rep. Mike Lawler

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Speaker 5 Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Speaker 6 All right, he is the DNC's vice chair, David Hogg. He is the Republican Congressman from New York, Mike Lawler, and chief of political strategists and ABC News contributor, Donna Brazil.

Speaker 6 I'm the maker of gumbo.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 6 These are from the people. Disney's building its new first theme park in 15 years in Abu Dhabi.
Wow. What does it say that the happiest place on earth is now an oil-rich autocracy?

Speaker 7 That's good. I mean, Mickey and Minnie should be available to everybody.

Speaker 8 What's wrong with that?

Speaker 7 I'm all about it, you know, making sure that American products, American brands, and everything else, that we're able to be in a global space. And besides, what kid, I mean, I love Mickey.

Speaker 7 You know, when I first went to a theme park, I went on and got me some dishes. I thought they were real.

Speaker 7 So I love Mickey.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I do too. All right.
Are you going to go? No, I do. I'm with you.
No, I. I'll be your date.

Speaker 6 No, I'm just wondering if they're going to have the gay days thing, just like they do in Orlando there in Abu Dhabi.

Speaker 4 I wonder how that's going to happen.

Speaker 4 That's not going to happen. I think that's going to be a good thing.
Well, they should.

Speaker 7 They'll skip that one.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 What does the panel make of the reaction to Trump suggesting we should reopen Alcatraz as a federal prison?

Speaker 6 No. No.

Speaker 8 I will say, two of the best movies of all time are Escape from Alcatraz and The Rock.

Speaker 6 Great movies. I know, but we shouldn't make policy from watching TV, should we? I mean, it's plain that he was watching.

Speaker 8 Isn't that often what happens?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 4 Really? Oh.

Speaker 6 I mean, okay, and look, is it a big issue? No. First of all, it's probably never going to happen.
I also must say, you know, I'm tired of hearing how this is the can't-do country.

Speaker 6 No, should we open Alcatraz? There's no reason to do it. But I heard the immediate reaction was, it's impossible.
It's impossible because it's

Speaker 6 broken down.

Speaker 8 It's just stupid.

Speaker 6 It's just stupid. But also, like, it's not impossible.

Speaker 6 If you really wanted to do it, like, you know,

Speaker 6 it's not the Manhattan Project.

Speaker 8 The bigger issue is not actually opening up Alcatraz. The bigger issue is holding criminals accountable across our country when they're actually breaking the law.

Speaker 8 And that is something that I think, you know, as a New York representative where crime has gone up significantly,

Speaker 8 you're down in Washington, D.C., we see it a lot as well.

Speaker 8 That is the bigger issue and the bigger debate to have about how to deal with actual crime in this country as opposed to reopening out control.

Speaker 9 Can I ask you this, Congressman? You know, a lot of the people that are being put in these detention centers, they're run by private prisons.

Speaker 9 Do you think that private prisons are something that we should have in this country?

Speaker 9 You know, like, I don't think that we should be having a system that is incentivized to keep people there.

Speaker 9 Of course, we need to make sure we're keeping everybody safe, but I don't want to have a system where we literally have a prison industrial complex that is incentivizing keeping people incarcerated.

Speaker 8 There's no question you can have reform with respect to that. Should we have the

Speaker 8 I don't have a problem with a public-private partnership in terms of actually dealing with the operations of a prison. But the issue to me

Speaker 8 is actually it is actually enforcing the law.

Speaker 8 If you look at a state like New York where the recidivism rate on people who are being arrested for felonies and then being released under cashless bail, it is over 50%.

Speaker 8 That's insane. You're putting violent felons back out on the street only to reoffend.

Speaker 8 Kathy Hochul just fired 2,000 prisoner corrections officers and as a result is now releasing prisoners out onto the streets. That is stupid policy.

Speaker 8 So look, we can have a debate and I, as a member of the state legislature, had no problem with dealing with some of the issues pertaining to for-profit prisons.

Speaker 8 But at the end of the day, the bigger issue to me is criminals being released back out onto the street to reoffend. But they're two different issues.

Speaker 4 I don't know why we're dealing with that.

Speaker 8 But we're not dealing with it.

Speaker 4 That's part of the problem.

Speaker 4 We're not dealing with a lot of the issues.

Speaker 9 What really concerns me is we are literally, a lot of these private prison groups are literally funding people's campaigns and incentivizing keeping these people in prison, which costs us, putting aside the moral side of things, let's leave that aside for now, even though that's super important.

Speaker 9 Just economically, it's costing us billions of dollars. And then they're using that money to help fund the campaigns of the people who refuse to regulate them, and it's a huge problem.

Speaker 8 Well, that's true of any industry in America where people are investing billions of dollars into campaigns.

Speaker 7 But it's just like immigration, we need a comprehensive approach to crime, immigration, how are we going to grow a 21st century economy,

Speaker 7 how are we going to advance science, and how are we going to be a 21st century superpower when we're making some dumb, stupid moves right now?

Speaker 7 And Congress, as you said earlier, Congress cannot see there's Article I powers. You must provide the check and balances.

Speaker 7 And we can't just detain people and open up new prisons without due process and the rule of law. America has standards and values, and we have somehow forgotten that.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 6 What do you think of the speculation that Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego may enter the 2028 presidential race with a Latino candidate help bring back a key part of the Democratic base?

Speaker 6 I mean, I feel like this is the problem Democrats keep making over and over, that it's always more identity politics.

Speaker 6 Didn't you have a fight, one of your controversies, wasn't it that you ran against somebody who was Native American and they complained about it?

Speaker 6 And it sounded to me, now maybe I didn't get all the information, it sounded to me like she just lost to you.

Speaker 6 But then that wasn't good. And this is the Democratic Party, isn't that the Republican?

Speaker 7 No, Bill, we're not a perfect party. We've got a lot of shit.
within us and we have to clean up our own mess.

Speaker 7 But I tell you one thing, if I had to come back on this earth tomorrow, I would still be a Democrat because of our values. We fight like hell.

Speaker 7 Sometimes we don't even make love at night because we fight like hell.

Speaker 7 But we have good moral standards, and you're right. We did spend a great part of this last century dealing with, oh, you're black, you're gay, you're a woman.
What, god damn it,

Speaker 7 so what?

Speaker 9 Are you good at your job? That's what I care about.

Speaker 4 That's what I think we do the job. Fundamentally.

Speaker 4 Look, fundamentally.

Speaker 4 We're over there. Let's move on.

Speaker 8 Fundamentally, Donald Trump made inroads with nearly every single group in the country. And it was primarily driven by issues, by substantive issues on the economy and the border.

Speaker 8 So I don't think it's a function of let's pick which race or ethnicity or religion. That's or gender.
That's not the problem. It is the substance of the issues and what you're going to do to fix it.

Speaker 7 So Rubin is a

Speaker 7 great guy. He will make a wonderful president if he chooses to.
He just got elected to the Senate. So maybe you should stay there for a little bit and let a little grasp run the name of the camera.

Speaker 6 But what is the deal on the woman who attacked you because you beat her at that job? Did you beat her fair and square? Was there any fire there?

Speaker 9 There was the election that the DNC held and I was the person that was one of the people that won one of the three positions that they had for the at-large vice president.

Speaker 6 So what was her claim?

Speaker 9 Part of the claim, so I don't, not to bore people, but to get into the bureaucracy of the DNC, we have a gender balance rule. at the DNC because of course we do.
People.

Speaker 8 By the way, the Republican Party does too.

Speaker 8 If the chair is a male, then the vice chair has to be a female.

Speaker 9 Well, what's interesting is that's even more progressive than our vision, which is that the chair doesn't count towards the gender balance rule that we have.

Speaker 9 Frankly, I don't even know if it makes sense for us to have the gender balance rule anymore in this day and age, because I want to focus on whoever's just best at the job. Great.

Speaker 9 At this point, that's my own view of that. Terrific.

Speaker 4 You know.

Speaker 8 By the way, I support what you're doing with respect to the primaries, because I can tell you, having been in politics for quite a while, I started as an intern for McCain, some of these people don't know when it's time to go.

Speaker 8 Chuck Schumer has been in elected office for 50 years. 1974, he was first elected.
50 years. AOC will absolutely kick his ass in a primary.

Speaker 8 She is the leader of the Democratic Party in this moment and will continue to be, I think, the biggest driver of where the party goes from a governmental policy standpoint.

Speaker 8 And that drives many of my colleagues crazy. But the fact is, she has tapped into the base of support within the Democratic Party, and you see the juxtaposition between her and Chuck Schumer.

Speaker 8 I'm writing a strongly worded letter.

Speaker 4 Oh, sit the fuck down, Chuck. It's time.

Speaker 6 That's why you won

Speaker 6 in that district that you, that's why you won.

Speaker 4 Purple as they come.

Speaker 6 Well, right. Because the people, they didn't want to vote for Donald Trump, but they're not out there on the far left either.
No.

Speaker 8 They want balance, they want common sense, they want people who are serious about getting the job done.

Speaker 8 For my district, my biggest issue, lifting the cap on salt and providing real tax relief to people, protecting critical services like Medicaid.

Speaker 8 And we're going through this debate, and I'm fighting with leadership, and I'm fighting with the administration to make sure we don't gut these vital programs. That's what people want.

Speaker 8 They just want you to do the damn job and go home.

Speaker 7 Get out the way. Get out the way.

Speaker 6 All right. What is it?

Speaker 9 I think... There's one thing I wanted to talk about, too, which is a little bit of what you just talked about, which is

Speaker 9 there have been a few members that have come out that have said, well, you know, if I retire, my life is effectively over. And what I would say is, get over yourself.
This isn't about you.

Speaker 9 This is about our country, and it's about your constituents. Nobody is in.
I don't care if you've been there for decades or just one term. That seat is not yours.
It is your constituents.

Speaker 9 That is who you're there to serve. And if they choose to serve somebody else, so be it.

Speaker 9 That's all we're trying to do with leaders we deserve is give people the option to vote for somebody that isn't necessarily the same person.

Speaker 7 And Bill, let me just implore one thing. I'm glad that David is at the table.

Speaker 7 You know, I've been at the table a long time, and I love being at the table because it took me a hell of a long time to get in and to get a seat.

Speaker 7 And once I got a seat and got my folding chair, I was ready. I was set.
And

Speaker 7 there comes a day when you can't stir every pot, and you're going to have to get the mm-mm out. And I'm glad that David is throwing a rock inside the part.

Speaker 7 All I would like to advise David is my 25-year-old march on Washington King holiday free Nelson Mandela self. Call me what the hell you please, but I know what I did when I was his age.

Speaker 7 I wanted to have a role in American politics. I want to care about my country.
I want to love my country. And I want to give back what my country gave to me.

Speaker 7 And if David takes that spirit on the DNC, I'll vote for his ass again.

Speaker 6 It's great up there. Thank you very much, everybody.

Speaker 6 Appreciate you.

Speaker 5 Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.

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