Ep. #652: Eric Holder, Nancy Mace, Ro Khanna

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Thank you very much.

How are you?

Hello down there.

There you are.

There's everybody.

Thank you very much.

All right.

Please, we have a big show.

Let's get right to it.

I know, I know, it's exciting, and I know why you're happy, because it's a weekend to remember when St.

Patrick's Day falls on a Sunday.

Are you excited about that?

St.

Patrick.

It'd be like the old days before Ozempic, when you lost weight by vomiting.

And

I'm Irish American.

Where am I Irish Americans here?

Somewhere?

To Great Really?

Used to be a big thing.

I guess I don't give it a fuck anymore.

But anyway.

But we used to go nuts about it.

I guess they still do.

There's a parade in New York.

In Chicago, they turn the river green.

And in Washington, D.C., Lauren Bober jerks off a leprechaun.

Oh, I kid the leprechauns.

Hey, keep an eye out for leprechauns.

You know a lot about leprechauns?

They're very rich.

Did you know that?

Leprechauns are very rich and they're tiny and they're hard to find.

Like Cape Middleton.

I don't know.

Have you been following that story?

What's going on?

Kate Middleton?

Is she the princess?

Whatever she is, she's disappeared, and now they say big scandal, she's not, they've seen not wearing her wedding ring.

Well, this is, you know, the royal family.

This is why they always warn you, never marry outside the family.

But,

okay, so here's the big political news.

The rematch no one wanted is on.

It became official this week.

Both Biden and Trump got the necessary delegates.

And listen to this.

Half the country, almost half the country now, approves of Trump's job when he was president.

I thought Biden had memory problems.

Wow.

Trump.

This week Trump said there's so much cutting we could do talking about Social Security.

And then he, of course, he had to backtrack.

Nobody cares.

Nobody listens to what he says anyway.

They don't take him seriously.

But that's a pretty, if anybody else said that, that would be a big thing.

We're cutting Social Security.

He said, no, he would never cut Social Security.

That's where his supporters get the money to send to him.

But

the other big Trump story, you know, he's got the trial going on in Georgia, you know, the one where he asked for 11,000 votes.

And the prosecutor there, a woman named Fonnie Willis.

Yeah, I know.

Well, the ruling came down today.

You know, she was in this situation where she was

fucking, okay, dating, whatever, in love.

I don't know what it was,

with the lead prosecutor who she hired for the job.

But they said now she can stay on,

but she has to fire the boyfriend, thus ending the people versus some good dick.

I never

I never understood what the scandal was in this.

You know, I think the law has spoken.

You're not allowed to steal an election, even if the person who caught you has a boyfriend.

I think that's the legal,

I can't find anything more about it.

What?

You can't have sex with someone you meet at work?

Where most people meet that what the fuck is that?

No,

if you're a moral, decent human being, you can find sex to strangers you meet on the phone.

That's how you do it, man.

But here's the thing.

The Republicans were claiming that Nathan Wade, he's the prosecutor that she hired, was completely unqualified for the task of prosecuting Donald Trump, their hero, and he was unqualified, so they got him fired.

I'm starting to think these people aren't that bright.

Oh, Technique.

Hey.

If you have to think about it, it's not worth it.

But the big story this week, of course, everyone's talking about TikTok.

Yeah, I know.

China makes TikTok and it's poisoning the minds of our kids.

So we've got to eat shit, China.

That's what I say.

The House voted that either it sells to an American company or they're going to ban it.

Because China, you know what, you can manufacture everything else that we use, but keeping our kids stupid, that's our job.

And TikTok, not the only site that's in trouble, Pornhub.

Pornhub fans?

There's a guy, I'll admit it.

Look at that guy.

And he's with his wife.

That's very brave.

but they now their band they get pulled had to pull out of Texas and they're not the first state no porn hub in Texas Arkansas Louisiana Mississippi Utah I tell you these red states

no porn hub no illegal abortion no legal weed all these people who moved out of California recently how we looking now

all right we've got a great show we have Two congresspeople, Nancy Mason Rocana.

But first up, he is the former Attorney General General under President Obama.

He's now the chairman of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, Eric Holder.

There he is.

Come in.

Come in.

How are you doing?

Great to see you, as always.

How are you?

I'm fine.

Yeah, you look good.

You look well rested.

But I know you've been busy.

I guess congratulations to Renauder.

I read this committee that you're part of, head of the Redistricting Committee,

made it that that we had the best, most fair elections in 2022 as far as redistricting that we've had ever.

In the last 40 years.

40 years, and it's going to be even better in 2020.

Yep.

So, how did you get that done?

You know, we had a state-by-state strategy, and we decided we'd use different strategies in different states, electing people who would stand for fairness, putting in place independent commissions to draw the lines, and then bringing lawsuits where we had to do that.

So, we'll use the courts as well as the electoral process to make the system more fair.

Okay, so both sides do gerrymander, though.

Is that correct?

It's true, but I think if you look at what the Republicans did in 2011, Princeton University did a study and said it was the worst gerrymandering of the last 50 years.

And comparing what Democrats do in terms of gerrymandering as opposed to Republicans is like comparing a pea to a watermelon.

Is there really that difference?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know what?

Okay, but

I have read about places that were gerrymandered for the Democrats.

So if they both do it, what do you say to people who would argue, well, how can you have the moral high ground?

It sounds to me like the other side just does it better.

Well, no, because I've stood against Democrats who actually did gerrymander.

I stood against Democrats in Maryland.

I stood against Democrats in New Jersey and Virginia who wanted to use the power that they had to try to gerrymander.

And I've said that the maps, for instance, in Illinois were not maps that I necessarily would have drawn.

So what we have tried to do at the NDRC is to stand simply for fairness.

Here's the deal.

If the system is fair, if the maps are fair, Democrats and progressives will do just fine.

We don't have to put our thumb on the scale.

Republicans have made peace with the notion that they're going to be a minority party in terms of popular support, but they want to have majority power.

And that's what we have to fight against.

Well, okay.

So as

a former head of the Justice Department, I got to ask you about these trials, the Trump trials.

I mean, we're coming up on four years.

I know you would never want to criticize someone who is your successor in the post, but I have to.

Because Merrick,

really, Merrick Garland, sorry, four years?

Trump's going to delay his way.

They say all four of them now might never...

I mean, and we need to see, even independents, even conservatives say they want to see the trial.

They want to see the results of these trials.

And if he can wait, he can run out the clock till the next election,

then the trials will never happen, of course.

So what is your assessment of how this was handled?

Why could not it have been done quicker?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not familiar, obviously, with all the inner workings of what happened at the time.

You're not?

Well, I wasn't there.

I wasn't the Attorney General.

But you know more than we do.

Well, but I don't know exactly what happened in these particular cases.

But it takes four years to bring a case to trial like this?

No, I mean, clearly the Justice Department could have and should have brought those indictments sooner.

But it's also true of what happened in the States.

And I'm really concerned that at this point, as you just said, the possibility exists that all four of these cases, for a variety of reasons, may not get resolved before the election, depriving the American people of a piece of information or pieces of information that they need to have in order to make a calculated decision as to who should be the next President of the United States.

And what do you make of this Phony Willis situation that I was making fun of in the monologue?

I never understood what the scandal was.

It seemed like it was better for the Republicans.

What was in it for them to go after her?

It seemed like she's single,

a little messy, but plainly that marriage was kind of over.

I mean, this is something that happens all the time to human beings.

What was the issue?

You

see race.

You see, it's all about delay.

Oh, I see.

By forcing a

focus on this relationship, takes attention away from the underlying charges.

Now the prosecutor has got to leave.

You watch.

They're going to appeal.

They're going to appeal.

They're going to try to move things back, keep moving things back.

Their aim is to have these trials take place, if they take place at all, after November the 5th.

That is the primary goal.

Right.

Well, what do you think?

They're going to succeed or not?

I still have hope about the January 6th trial in D.C.

That's the big one.

I think with

Judge Chutkin and Jack Smith, I think you've got people there who have the ability, assuming the Supreme Court allows it to happen, because

I'm worried about them.

So what do you make of the fact that the Democrats, by every poll I read, are, I would just say, losing their base?

I mean, if you look at non-white working class voters, there has been a 61-point shift.

That's an incredible amount from 2012.

That's in 12 years.

Obama in 2012, when you were the Attorney General,

I think won it by 67 points, that demographic.

Biden won it by 48.

Now he's only up by 6.

What's going on there?

Well, I think, first off, you're measuring March against November.

We're looking at where people are right now.

I think you'll probably see a movement with regard to working-class people of all races towards Biden by the time you get to November.

You're also comparing an extremely, an unbelievably popular African-American running for the first time and who really galvanized people, you know, in all strata of life.

And so I think in some ways that's not a fair comparison.

But I think we should not be too alarmed by these March polls.

We've got to take them into consideration, but March is a fundamentally different month than October and November, and we'll see where these things turn out when we get to that part of the calendar year.

Okay.

But

I mean, the deal is there's work to be done, but I'm actually optimistic that if we stay committed, focused, and as the media turns its attention to making this a binary choice between a person who's got some age and cognitive issues, that would be Trump, against somebody who is actually

you know,

against somebody who has actually accomplished a lot, I think we'll do just fine.

What you said in the monologue was really good, though.

I mean, Trump's popularity rating is higher now than it ever was during his presidency.

It's like, hey, America, remember?

People, they're saying, are you better off now than you were four years ago?

You damn right we are.

So like, let's not lose sight of the chaos, the corruption, and all the negative things that Donald Trump meant and put a good man back in the White House.

House.

So

you're confident Biden can pull this out?

It's going to be, he's going to win the popular vote by five, six, seven million people, something like that.

That's going to be easy.

But in the crazy-ass system that we have in the United States, we've got to deal with the Electoral College.

And so I think that's going to be tough.

But you thought about running for a minute, did you not?

For a minute until my family said that I wasn't.

They're here now, a few of them.

They voted voted against that.

Well, don't say that, because if you ever do run, we want a strong leader, not just one.

That's not the answer to the wife.

Well, I'll strong on it.

I didn't say the wife, I said the family.

It was four to one against me.

Okay.

And what about the Voting Rights Act?

I mean, this is something that was very key to your term in office.

I mean, what year was it that the Supreme Court kind of gutted it?

2013, the Shelby County case.

2013.

And if people don't remember, this is the John Roberts Court.

And they basically said that, yes, we needed the Voting Rights Act for a long time, but now that day is passed, and the Southern states would never act the way they did back then.

But what was the repercussion for this, and how did they act, for real?

Just review that for us.

Chief Justice Roberts said famously, America has changed, and therefore we don't need these components

of the Voting Rights Act, which allowed the Justice Department to pre-clear changes, electoral changes, in states covered by the Act.

And since that time, 1,700 polling places have closed.

There's been a disproportionate number of purges in states that were previously covered by the Voting Rights Act, and disproportionately, of course, in communities of color.

And so we have seen voting restrictions put in place.

I think it would be an interesting thing now to ask Chief Justice Roberts, maybe put him on his sodium pentothal or something, you know, tooth serum,

do you think you had it right back in 2013?

Because the reality is America electorally is a fundamentally worse off place than it was before the Shelby County decision.

Yeah, but I do remember Biden saying that Georgia, the situation there was Jim Crow 2.0.

And then after that election, the polling came out and even African Americans said they had no problem voting.

How do you reconcile that?

Yeah, but if you look at voter participation rates before Shelby County and after Shelby County, you will see that there's always been a gap, but whites vote at a greater rate than blacks do.

But that that ratio has really increased fairly substantially since the Shelby County case.

And it is a fundamental gap now between black voter participation and white voter participation.

You know, the reality is that black folks do everything that we have to do, stand in line for three or four hours in order to vote.

But why should that be the case?

Why should I have to take, all right, in 2020 in Atlanta, on the night of the 2020 election, after 5 o'clock, if you were in a white part of Atlanta, it took you six minutes to vote.

If you were in a black part of Atlanta, it took you 52 minutes to vote.

Now,

why should it be that way?

This is supposed to be a participatory democracy where everybody has equal access to the polls.

Nobody can say that that is the case right now.

Nobody can say.

Well, that's why we're glad you're after it.

All right.

I'm doing it.

I know you are.

Thank you.

Eric Holder, everybody.

All right.

You're going to stay for over 10?

Great.

All right.

Thank you, folks.

Let's meet our panel.

Hey, hey, how are you?

All right, two congresspeople.

No way.

She is a Republican Congresswoman from South Carolina who serves on three committees, including the House Armed Services, Veteran Affairs, and Oversight Nancy Mace back with us.

Brave Nancy Mace.

And he is a Democratic congressman who represents California Silicon Valley is a member of President Biden's National Advisory Board.

Roe Conna is back with us.

So

I want to continue a little bit that discussion because we didn't really get into with the former Attorney General why gerrymandering is so bad.

And I think the reason why it's so bad is because it is what radicalizes America.

You're a good example, I think.

Maybe you can prove me wrong, but just give me some facts.

In 1999, 38% of districts were considered swing districts.

Could go either way.

Now that's only 19%.

So four to five, it's a foregone conclusion.

When you ran in 2020,

you won by one point.

Then they redistricted your area,

and I think it was less black people.

And then you won in 2022 by 14 points.

Does that that explain the shift in your politics?

Because you used to be a little more to the middle, I think.

I'm still very much the same person I was last time I was here.

The Supreme Court in October actually affirmed that my district, as you said correctly, I won by one point in 2020.

When the state of South Carolina redistricted my seat,

they made it 1.36 points better, one point better in 2022.

I won by 14 points in 2022 because I overwhelmingly, post-Roe v.

Wade, came out swinging hard hard to fight for women after that decision because I am in a swing district.

I am in a purple district.

I outperformed.

I should have only won by two or three points based on our own data.

After Roe v.

Wade, I was a D plus 10 district.

But you did switch on Trump.

I mean, after January 6th, I could read you the quotes.

You were very hard on him.

I was very hard.

I didn't like it.

Okay.

Do you still go?

You said, how do we hold a president accountable?

We need to find a way to hold the president accountable.

His entire legacy was wiped out yesterday.

We've got to start over.

We've got to rebuild our nation and rebuild our party.

That's not where you are now.

Well, we've had three years of Joe Biden.

And in fact, I had a constituent.

It's been that bad, huh?

It's been that bad.

But I had a constituent.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I had a voter call me two days ago.

Oh, it's horrible.

The other morning.

I just came as a spectator.

I'm just marvelous at night.

I'm just going to ask you.

But my district, most of my district is unaffiliated or independent voters.

I had an independent voter call me two mornings ago, early in the morning, and he said, I voted for Trump in 16, but I did not vote for president in 20.

I didn't like the options.

And then he says to me, We can't have four more years of Joe Biden.

And I think there are a lot of people out there that would agree.

And he cited the endless wars that are going on right now that didn't happen under Trump.

We have Russia invading Ukraine.

We have Biden giving billions of dollars to Iran to fund terrorism around the world.

All these things.

We have inflation.

We have over 8 million illegal immigrants that have come across the southern border.

All these things.

Bro, you want to get in on this or what?

I mean,

I'm impolite.

I'm letting, you know, I'm being civil to Lennon because of the political.

That's why you lose elections.

Well, let me let me

let me say this on the redistricting actually first.

First, you know who deserves credit for it is actually Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Schwarzenegger did it in California, and he said politicians shouldn't draw their own lines.

Citizens should.

Both the Democrats and the Republicans opposed it.

I love Arnold.

I don't know why he won't do this show.

Tell him to do their show.

I've told everybody I know who's ever talked to Arnold.

I'll text Arnold to tell him to do this show.

If you're the one who can get him here, I'd be really grateful.

You should do your show because

both parties opposed it, and he got it done.

And that should be a model, frankly, around the country in terms of citizens throwing the lines.

Now, you know, California politics aren't exactly a panacea, so just having citizen redistricting is not enough.

It's not, our country suffers from something deeper, and that is that we have stopped listening to each other.

We've stopped respecting difference.

We're not willing to collaborate.

You think just having citizen lines is going to magically solve a broken politics?

It's not.

Look, Nancy and I disagree on so many things.

We've done two bills together.

That were signed to bills.

People say,

people are saying, why are you going on the show with Nancy May?

She just did this thing with Texas.

You're in Congress together.

What do you mean, the show?

Well, get up.

How ridiculous.

No, I'm just saying, that's such a good idea.

That's what I hate about that.

But half of Congress doesn't talk to each other.

They say, well, okay, if you're someone who supports Trump, I'm a proud supporter of President Biden.

If you don't work with someone who supports Trump, I was like, 45%, 48%.

I want to give an example on this piggyback on this because I did an IVF resolution two weeks ago.

Alabama had that ruling, didn't like it.

I want to do a resolution.

In vitro.

In vitro.

In vitro, supporting, condemning the Alabama ruling, supporting access to IVF.

And I had Republicans and Democrats signed up to get on the bill.

An hour before I dropped it, Democrats were told to get off.

They couldn't get on my bill because it was me and Republican.

They want to do their own thing.

And that's just, I see it on both sides.

Both sides play that game.

That's not what the American people want.

They don't want that binary choice.

They want us working together.

And Nancy and I have worked together, but

here's the argument that I think President Biden needs to make.

Because I said, look, Trump came in and he basically said, you've hollowed out manufacturing.

Manufacturing went to China, as you put it in your monologue.

Towns, Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Ash Willow were hollowed out.

President Biden actually is bringing those jobs back.

He's actually bringing manufacturing.

He's bringing semiconductors.

He's bringing new industry.

And I think

instead of insulting people who voted for Donald Trump, why not say, we understand why you were upset?

We understand

Republicans that support Trump all the time.

I mean, and he gave us a lot of inflation and all the spending, all those things, too, and all these problems.

Were you guys both at the State of the United States?

Joe Biden brought all that.

Were you both at the State of the Union?

I was at.

Yes.

Okay.

Biden said political violence has no place in America.

No place.

No Republican clapped.

What's going on there?

Well, I mean,

political violence is no place in America.

You can't clap for that.

Well, I mean, I was there.

I will tell you, there was a lot of shouting.

I heard Joe Biden shout a lot.

My ears hurt when I left the room.

And he was very clear.

That is not answering this question.

No, no, no.

I don't like any political violence.

In fact, we had violent riots in my hometown two years, three years ago during COVID when all that happened, and nobody was ever held accountable.

Violence is wrong.

Nobody should be.

And after that.

Then why couldn't you clap for it?

I don't know.

I mean, he's the President of the United States making the most anodyne comment you could possibly make.

Why can't you guys get along a little better than that?

We need to try.

And I say, no, you've put your point on what.

You would applaud if a Republican had said that.

I would.

Yes.

I would applaud it.

I went to.

Look, I went.

Yeah, not many Republicans went

a speech at all.

When Trump went one in 2016, half of the Democrats didn't go to his inauguration.

I said, I'm going to go to the inauguration.

I went to every one of the states of the union.

It's not about the person, it's about respecting the American people and it's about respecting who they send to Congress.

And then, you know, you're one out of 435 people.

You don't have a monopoly on the truth.

Let's learn to figure out where you disagree and get things done.

And I've been to every state of the union that I've been in combating Congress three years.

I go every year.

And I want to hear and I want to listen.

Like your prom when you're in Congress.

It's like it's my job.

It's like it's my job.

So, do you know Carrie Lake?

You know who she is.

Yeah, you know who she is.

I have not met her, but I know who she is.

Okay,

she ran in Arizona, right?

She's the Republican.

Yeah, she's the Senate candidate now.

Right.

She said, she's a very big Trumper.

They asked her, if you were vice president on January 6th,

would you have certified the vote?

And she said that's a hypothetical, which

It's funny, right?

It's a kind of important hypothetical.

Well, both of us certified the Electoral College January 2021.

We both did.

So if you were vice president, let me ask that of you.

If you were the vice president on Junior 6th, would you have done what Mike Pence did that made Trump so angry?

I certified the Electoral College in every single state.

I mean,

that was the right thing to do, was the constitutional thing to do, and I would do it again.

Right.

100%.

100%.

Well, that's great.

I must warn you.

We're easy.

We're so easy.

I must warn you, Donald Trump sometimes accidentally watches the show.

So.

I hope he's watching tonight.

I hope he's watching tonight.

Well,

he won't be happy with that answer.

I hope he watches the show.

Why don't you?

Predator and predator.

Republicans need more independent-minded voters to win in November.

We can't just have this binary Republican Democrat.

We need independent-minded people.

My district is 40% unaffiliated, independent voters, and Republicans need those people to win in November in a general election.

Those are just the facts.

Okay.

All right.

Now let's ask Roe a question that I had for Eric Holder to make it even, right?

Okay, I asked him about this 61-point shift for non-white

working-class voters from 2012.

What do you make of that?

I mean, I agree, it's only March, but it's not going to close 61 points.

And it's obviously going in a very different direction.

I could give you some other stats.

I mean, Biden, I think, is at 76 percent.

The last election, blacks voted for him, 90 percent.

That's a 14-point loss.

41 percent say Trump's policies were more favorable to them personally.

Only 18 percent say that to Biden, for Biden.

What is your answer to that?

Well, we've got an issue.

We've got to do better on the economy.

I have a lot of respect for Eric Holder.

You know, when the polls aren't going well, people give you the standard points.

Oh, the polls will get better in a few months.

I'd rather that we focus on having a better economic message.

We need to speak to black and brown voters about wealth generation.

We need to speak about how they're going to start businesses.

We've got to speak about what we're doing to revitalize the economy.

I don't understand how we're losing on the economy by 12 points, and we need a better economic message for this party.

And if we're not going to have a better economic message, we're going to lose.

And it's time that people be plain spoken and tell the truth instead of just sleepwalking into a loss.

I mean, I read recently the numbers for when Reagan ran on Morning in America, all those numbers were way worse than what Biden is now.

I mean, you really tell me that if the numbers for unemployment were what they are now, Trump wouldn't be saying this is the greatest unemployment.

You don't think he would be running on these numbers?

Well, I'll tell you, if I could just say one thing.

I was having breakfast with someone today from L.A., and he grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and he had done better than his parents.

He was back at his fifth-year high school in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and he said there was not a single person there who had done better than their parents.

We have a challenge in this country.

The American dream has slipped away for many Americans.

And if we just celebrate, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat, rah-rah, everything is fine.

We're out of touch with people whose wages haven't gone up, whose housing costs are too high, who feel the American dream is slipping away.

We need to talk about that and what we're going to do.

It's not morning in America in the 1980s.

And if you think that, you haven't talked to people in these communities.

mean,

to your point, groceries are up.

I mean, you go to the grocery store, it's up 21%.

You go to get gas in your car, it's up 20%.

I mean, the costs of goods have risen so much.

And we've seen issues in the supply chain when we're talking about baby formula, trying to feed our kids.

But families are having a hard time feeding their families, right?

There isn't a lot of that because we had a pandemic that

we overreacted horribly to.

We spent $6 trillion.

I mean, you can't just write checks for $6 trillion that you don't have and not expect.

Well, the government is still doing that.

Congress is is still doing that today.

Republicans and Democrats are spending more than we have exponentially right now.

Just to push back on one thing, though, that we had the best economic recovery for any place in the world.

Yes, we did.

Absolutely.

And that was both.

And, you know, for all the dysfunction in Congress, when it came to a crisis of COVID, we actually, on a bipartisan way, delivered.

Now, I hope it doesn't take a pandemic to do things in Congress, but it actually was a place where people should be proud of America.

We developed vaccines, we have the best inflation and unemployment records.

Okay, so

great news.

The Republican National Committee has a new chairperson, and what the coincidence is amazing.

It's a Trump family member.

Can you believe it?

It's Lara Trump.

Yes, there she is with the president.

That's Eric's wife.

And what happened was, and Marjorie Tale Green tweeted this, she said,

MAGA has taken over the party.

MAGA is now in control of the Republican Party because, and so there's going to be what they call a bloodbath, Ms.

Was said, at the Republican National Committee.

They fired every single person there, and they're putting in their new MAGA people.

So, we got a hold of the job application form because they're going to need to restaff the whole thing.

Would you like to hear what's on the

questions if you want to get a job at the Republican National Committee now that MAGA has taken over?

Do you have any experience in overvaluing real estate?

How would you describe America's current president?

A crooked, B, sleepy, C, Donald J.

Trump.

How quickly could you forgive your boss if he shot you in the middle of Fifth Avenue?

Have you ever been institutionalized for severe psychiatric problems?

If so, are you interested in our referral program?

Are you able to say the sentence, an authoritarian dictatorship may be the only way to preserve our freedom without actually laughing?

Apparently, you are.

Where do you see yourself in the next 10 Trump terms?

Fill in the blank.

Haiti is a blank hole.

Logic problem: Donald Trump is an infallible judge of character, but his cabinet contained people who called him a fucking moron, idiot, an idiot surrounded by clowns, dope, kindergartner, idiot, patient in an adult take care center, empty vessel, like an 11-year-old child, sixth grader, idiot, crazy, and goddamn dumbbell.

Explain.

Number eight, which side were you rooting for in the zone of interest?

And

your thoughts on Eugene Carroll are: A, everyone deserves their day in court, B, a faulty memory at best, C, she wishes.

What?

It's an edgy show.

They're surprised at that.

But can I ask you about that?

Because I asked before, would you mind talking about it?

Because you were much in the news last week about this issue because you were on George Stephanopoulos' show.

And he was questioning about the idea that you're supporting Trump, who was found guilty of sexual assault by a jury in New York for the Eugene Carroll case.

And you were a rape victim yourself.

And

I guess his implication was that being so, you should not support someone who is convicted of this crime.

Well, number one, to set the stage a little bit, I went on to talk about 2024, when the general election, Joe Biden versus Donald Trump.

I had my 14-year-old kid with me, my daughter, with me that day.

It was work.

I was there for work.

She had no choice.

She had to come with me.

It was a really uncomfortable conversation afterwards with her on the way to the airport over this, and she knows my story.

But number one, Donald Trump wasn't convicted of sexual assault.

The $83 million was a defamation suit.

It was about defamation.

There was a sexual abuse claim, and she got a little bit for that, but the vast majority of it was for defamation, not rape, not sexual assault.

So I think there are two types of assaults.

That's right, right?

That is right.

Let me just say this.

That is right.

Let me say this about what happened there from my perspective.

And

look, I have a lot of respect for Nancy Mace's courage in talking about rape and sexual assault, and I admire your being public about that.

Not easy.

I also think, you know, I know Nancy's good at answering tough questions, and I also think, as George Stephanopoulos, as a journalist, in a time where I believe in the First Amendment, he should be asking everyone, and not just her, any Republican, it's a fair question if you're saying if there is a person who's running for president and they may have anything.

I think you're going to give a hits up to the rape victim that you're going to talk to her about her own rape when she comes on your show and that's the first thing you're going to ask.

Like that to me, like they didn't do that.

There was no, hey, we're going to film this clip.

And this clip triggers me.

Five years ago, I told my story on the South Carolina State House floor.

We were doing a fetal heartbeat bill.

There were no exceptions for rape or incest,

and there were no women speaking.

Rape victims and girls who were victims of incest had no voice.

I had never told my story publicly.

It took me 25 years.

I go to the law and I tell the story for the first time.

We were the first state in the nation to have a fetal heartbeat bill with exceptions for rape and incest because I put them in there after very,

very difficult time telling that story.

And so it takes a lot of courage, but then to feel like he was weaponizing my own rape for a political hijab, and it was wrong.

And my daughter was there.

It was awful.

I felt bullied.

The least they could have done is said, hey, we're going to talk about this, but we're going to lead with it.

And it was a 10-minute interview about my own rape.

It was completely, I think, wholly inappropriate.

I will answer the tough questions.

I have talked about it, but that video, that speech I gave, triggers me.

I know I gave it publicly, but it's not.

I mean, there was a reason.

It didn't come out of left field.

There was a reason why he asked the question.

It was related to something with Donald Trump.

And Donald Trump, I mean, you went to the Citadel, right?

Yeah, and I will tell you, George Stephanopoulos win last 30 seconds at the Citadel.

That place made me tough.

I will answer all the questions.

I'll bet.

Oh,

I think at a time where I know we share a view of the First Amendment, I mean, journalists are supposed to ask basic questions, and not just of Nancy, but of any Republican.

I think here's a fair question.

Should you support someone as a president who has a civil conviction of sexual assault and who didn't concede the January 6th election?

Every Republican should be asked that.

And I think whether it's, you know, I go on Fox, Nancy goes on MSNBC, whether Bill Maher.

We have got to get in this country not only that we can talk to each other, but that we aren't censoring people asking tough questions.

You know, being a member of Congress is like one of the most privileged things in human history.

You're a.0001% privilege.

So you go and you get asked a tough question.

That's the job.

It was more than that.

You know, it was a political hit job.

It was bullying.

It was rape shaming, is what it was.

Asked by George Stephanop was a guy that covered for the Clintons for years and called them in demos.

Like, no, thank you.

No, thank you.

And I respect that, but you're sharing your story, and that I want to make clear.

That I do think that took a lot of time.

I appreciate you because you know what?

You're the first, I think, Democrat member of Congress that has said that to me.

Over the course of this week, I had a lot of Republican colleagues come up to me, and I think you're the first Democrat to do that.

So I applaud that.

So thank you.

Yay.

Yay!

We're solving America right here.

Okay, but having gone to the Citadel, I just have to ask this about what Trump said about women in the military, because he mentioned the 26,000 unreported sexual assaults in the military, only 238 convictions.

And he said, what did these

geniuses expect when they put men and women together?

Now, that seems to imply.

that we can't trust men to be together with women, that we can't expect men to control themselves.

I mean, what's your your answer to that?

And before you say anything, remember, this is for the vice presidency.

You're the one, by the way, that started that rumor.

You started that rumor on this show.

Never start rumors.

Look, I do a lot, as a rape survivor, I actually do a lot of military sexual trauma legislation.

I'm on the VA committee.

I'm on the House Armed Services Committee with Roe.

We're both on oversight together.

I work on these issues a lot.

I take them very seriously, and it's something I pride myself on and working on with people on both sides of the aisle.

Okay.

Phil, if she's VP, we may be out of jail.

I mean, we don't, you know, that'll be our call.

You think I haven't thought of things like that?

Believe me, I have.

All right, so as long as we're in this Kim Baya mode where we're agreeing.

Can we fight about something?

Let's fight.

Let's fight.

Well, actually, I want to bring up the thing that you, I think, both agree on and both voted together on, which is TikTok.

Both of you have to explain this to me because I don't understand the numbers here.

Here's what's going on.

TikTok, owned by China, Bitan's a Chinese company, worried about it, you know, poisoning our kids' minds.

Okay, we'll do the jokes in a minute.

So this has been brewing for a while.

Trump brought it up when he was president.

We should make TikTok sell to an American company or ban it.

Now the House has voted, and I think they passed it pretty overwhelmingly, right?

They voted for that.

The Commerce Committee voted to ban or sell TikTok 50 to nothing.

50 to nothing?

I've never heard that in America, even when we got along.

The FCC Commissioner, clear and present danger, he wants to get rid of it.

Christopher Wray, FBI director, he wants to get rid of it.

Who's against this?

Who didn't vote for the bill?

You.

You.

Donald Trump's against it.

AOC's against it.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene's against it.

I know what happened.

This is like the ultimate.

Explain to me why the people who are lining up against the bill and against getting, you know, saying, no, we can keep TikTok Chinese.

What is the common ground there?

Well, the common ground is the First Amendment and free speech.

I mean, it shows how out of touch Congress is that of all the issues in the country, the thing we can get done in three days is ban TikTok.

That is the

word.

That is the securing border.

You've got 72%.

72% of Americans who say, let's pass a data privacy law.

Let's make sure that our data doesn't go to China.

Let's make sure your data isn't taken in an app.

By the way, the data is coming from data brokers as well.

No, we don't do that.

We do something which 31% of Americans want.

Ban TikTok.

Heaven, how many people in Congress actually have even talked to someone who's on TikTok?

170 million folks.

They're chemistry teachers on there.

They're people who are engaged in political speech.

And I am a strong believer in the First Amendment.

And

it is just out of touch, frankly,

of what the Congress has done.

And you've been a consistent First Amendment person.

Even when the FBI and federal agencies were telling social media companies to clamp down and censor stories on Twitter and and stuff.

You were there defending the First Amendment.

It's a First Amendment issue.

I think it's potentially a Fifth Amendment issue.

It's not the government's role to ban apps from the app stores.

It's also a fifth column to ban websites.

It's also a fifth column issue.

Now, I'm not saying I'm not a, I think I'm with you guys.

I'm always a free speech person.

Yes, don't worry.

I got this.

But and most of it, you know, it's easy to do those jokes because most of it is absolutely innocent.

But it's also there when they need it, not to be.

And we saw that after the Israeli war broke out, because somehow the kids all wound up on the side of Hamas.

So yes, you keep it there and you keep it innocent and it's mostly just dancing.

When you need it to change people's minds, don't kid yourself.

They do have it and they're not acting in our best interests.

Well, big tech companies,

they...

They play in these conflicts.

You see the propaganda on some of these sites, and it's there, but you know, 60% of TikTok in the U.S.

is owned by American and international interest investors, not China.

Our data hadn't gotten leaked to China.

And so I want to deal with facts and not fiction.

China, please.

No, look, your monologue had the big issue with China.

The problem with China is they're making all the stuff.

It's not that they've got some bike dance company on social media.

It's why do we let all our manufacturing to go to China?

I just had a hearing on Oversight where we had a federal agency buy Chinese manufacturer cameras knowing they're not supposed to, that it's breaking trade law, and they did it anyway.

I mean,

we should be be protecting our consumers, protecting federal agencies.

And we worked on a lot of cybersecurity bills together.

I mean, I'm so much more concerned about AI.

I mean, I heard you say this week that you think the first trillionaire in this country is going to be an AI entrepreneur.

That to me is scarier than any of this.

The idea of a trillionaire and also coming from AI.

And by the way, the U.S.

State Department said this week, worst case scenario, it poses an extinction-level threat to the human species.

I feel like, you know, we see all these glitches in it, and we just, it doesn't pause us at all.

It's like an arms race and we're the guinea pigs.

And shouldn't the tech bros have been made to work out the bugs before they unleashed it on humanity?

A little bit?

Yes.

I mean, we're.

But we're not.

We need regulation.

Elon Musk has said have an AI regulatory agency like the FDA.

But here's the thing, when there was electricity that was invented, no one would have thought that 100 years later you've had electricity running through your house and your five and six year year old running around.

Same thing with automobiles, with airplanes.

Now I'm glad we have regulation.

We probably need more regulations with all the planes falling apart.

We need smart regulation on AI.

And every time politicians say I'm not for regulation, I think about flying on a plane and why we need regulations.

We need those regulations.

I'm out here.

We got members of Congress that don't know how to log into Facebook.

Like, these are the people that are going to make AI regulate AI.

I don't think so.

I think the private tech industry should be leading the way and showing the moral compass for this.

And I'm not going to fear monger.

I think that there's a lot of opportunity with AI.

I think that it could all kill us one day.

Well, there's that.

There's that.

I mean,

the way you put that parenthetically.

Because parenthetically, it would kill us all one day.

But my larger point is...

America and Americans are resilient.

We're always one step ahead.

I think that we'll get

the tech industry.

Unless we're dead.

AI robots kill us.

But I think the tech industry should take the lead here and come up with the moral compass, the ethics, the rules, and how we're going to do this.

It should not be, you know, Nancy Pelosi called it TikTok the other day, not TikTok.

I mean, come on.

Well, I represent Silicon Valley, and I'd say this with that we need more than the tech tech folks at the table.

I mean, we also need to go to the bottom of the streets.

We already have laws on the book.

We already have laws on the book.

You know, I hate this sense where we've lost faith in American government.

You know, Silicon Valley wouldn't have to be a lot of people.

I've lost all faith in American government.

You know, Silicon Valley, my district, which is $10 trillion.

$10 trillion

of wealth, none of it would have existed if it weren't for John F.

Kennedy, who said, go to a moon and NASA buying the semiconductors that started Silicon Valley.

This country, this government has done great things.

And we are a great country when the government works with the private sector and when we have appropriate regulations.

And it's time.

And we're doing less of that now than we've been historically.

And I think the political divisiveness in this country, you see it, I mean, D.C.

is toxic.

I mean, the Hill is toxic.

It's cesspool.

And we're not doing that.

That innovation is less than a lot of people.

So when you say you 100% have lost faith in the American...

That's why I do this job.

That doesn't

fix it.

That doesn't fix it.

When you say 100% lost faith, though, that doesn't really mean that you think we should have an authoritarian strongman.

I'm not saying anyone in particular.

You're talking about Joe Biden?

You're talking about Joe Biden?

Oh, Joe Biden's the authoritarian strongman.

You want to take his opponents off the ballot?

I mean, talk about authoritarian.

All right.

I have to end it there, but it was very enlightening.

I'm I'm glad you guys are getting along.

So the new rules, everybody.

New rules.

Okay.

New rules.

People from out of town have to stop referring to our city by any of its quaint, but at this point, really corny nicknames.

So, Bill, how's life in the city of Angels?

Yeah, I wouldn't know because I don't live in a 1940s detective novel.

Right?

I mean,

the same goes for La La Land or a tinsel town.

Please just refer to Los Angeles the same way we all who live here do.

Tentsville.

There are old doctors who say a Florida man who has taperum

larvae in his brain from a lifetime preference for soft bacon have to get a second opinion.

Not only do you owe it to your patient, but also to Fud Ruckers, home of the aristocracy cool rare bacon cheeseburger.

If that's not the best burger you ever had, you need to have your head examined.

Neruro, before you get all incensed about this African religious tradition where infants are paraded through the streets and tossed in the air, remember, we bring them to a church or temple and cut off the end of their dick.

But I have to admit, the African thing is a first for me.

Not the tossing part, a baby not crying during a flight.

New rule, now that yet another steel monolith has appeared in the UK, let's stop pretending it's a big mystery and we have no idea how it got there.

I have a guess.

I'm going to go with someone put it there.

And it wasn't aliens.

Unless we're talking about the kind of aliens you find outside Home Depot who lug it there for $5 an hour, then yes, it was aliens.

New rule, in addition to the rule I laid down a few weeks ago about how in movies you don't need to get right up on a guy, you're holding a gun on, because this always happens.

Also,

if the bad guy has you tied up, don't spit in his face.

Yeah,

it's an awesome burn for about five seconds, so enjoy that five seconds because then an electric drill comes out and he puts it in your knee.

And finally, new rule, being obsessed with your mental health is bad for your mental health.

I've been thinking a lot lately about a puzzle many are struggling with.

Why are Biden's approval ratings so low when things are generally pretty good?

Now, of course, there are problems.

America is a big place, but wages are rising.

Unemployment is negligible.

The stock market is soaring.

We somehow brushed off both the Trump presidency and the pandemic.

Yes, inflation persists for a lot of things, but you know, an actual good, nice-sized TV now costs 60 bucks.

Who gets credit for that?

We've got next day's shipping, stuffed crust pizza, legal weed, GPS, and porn on the phone.

Cheer the fuck up.

Stop acting like life in America in 2024 is unbearable.

Biden's ratings are in the toilet, not because he's doing such a bad job, but because a lot of Americans like to live with their head in the toilet.

Let's look at the numbers.

Let's look at the numbers.

Almost a third of American adults have reported a depression, a depression diagnosis, at some point in their life.

And while depression is, of course, a very real thing, it's also true that earlier generations never suffered from the expectation that you're supposed to feel good all the time.

One in eight adults are on antidepressants, and that doesn't include the ones who steal them from their kids.

And the kids?

The newest TikTok challenge is self-diagnosis of mental problems.

Because what's more of a hotbed of mental health than TikTok?

In 2022, the CDC released the results of a survey on teen mental health, and over 40% said they feel persistently sad or hopeless.

And antidepressant use among young males is rapidly rising, unlike their dicks.

Now, without a doubt, antidepressants can be life-saving for those who need them, but here's the thing.

About three-quarters of Americans who are on them haven't been diagnosed with depression at all.

They just want a magic pill.

We spend $6 billion a year on drug ads, all featuring someone emerging from darkness to play with a dog.

And all with the message, you're a sad sack of shit, now take this.

Also, and don't get mad at me, I'm just citing statistics, but the people who really shouldn't be that bummed out but are acting like it anyway are exactly who you think, white women.

An estimated 35% of whom are on antidepressants, although in their defense, have you seen the prices at Lululemon?

These gals are so distraught they can barely keep their appointment, the Vietnamese girl who does their nails,

calling Dr.

TikTok.

But every bad feeling isn't a disease, and Americans really need to stop pathologizing everything.

No one's just sad anymore.

They're clinically depressed.

They don't merely worry.

They have chronic anxiety.

Do you like things neat and organized?

That's OCD.

You're bummed when it's cold out?

Seasonal depression.

Hate being alone, separation anxiety.

Bored, that's ADHD.

Shy, social anxiety disorder.

Why?

Because you don't want to go to the office party?

Nobody does.

Best case scenario, you have too much fun and it leads to getting fired.

Are you moody?

No, you're bipolar.

And some people are bipolar.

And some people are on the spectrum.

But sometimes on the spectrum is just a hall pass for being a jerk.

I'm clinically an asshole.

Nothing I can do.

Yes, you are on the spectrum, but so is everyone else alive.

That's why they call it a spectrum.

And it's not noble to glom on to the soft end of it.

PTSD is for people who fought in Iraq, not for people who want to bring their dog on a plane.

There are people in America with real problems who deserve to feel sad, but sometimes a bad day is just a bad day.

When you constantly reinforce this message that no one's just a normal human with normal struggles, but we're all permanently fucked in the head, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Maybe the solution is much simpler, and you just went a week without sleep or sunlight.

Maybe you have problems that could be solved with vegetables.

Or exercise.

Studies have shown that while antidepressants can be effective in serious cases, for most people, exercise is even more effective because exercise helps you get laid.

Whereas antidepressants just make you listen to podcasts about murder.

A couple of months ago, Elmo, the Muppet from Every Screaming Toddler's iPad,

wrote on his Twitter account, Elmo is just checking in.

How's everybody doing?

And Twitter responded like he was the suicide hotline.

Wife left me.

Daughters don't respect me.

My job is a joke.

Any more questions, Elmo?

Elmo, I'm going to be real.

I'm at my fucking limit.

In the grand scheme of the universe, our existence is merely a blink, devoid of inherent meaning or purpose.

And Elmo wrote back, you think you have it bad.

Try living your life with a guy's forearm shoved up your ass.

All right.

That's our show.

I'll be at Arizona Field Financial in Phoenix, May 4th, the Palace Theater in Albany, May 19th.

And watch the Club Random podcast on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast.

I want to thank my guests, Nancy Mays, Rokana, and Eric Holder.

Now go watch Overtime on CNN at 11:30 or catch it Saturday morning on YouTube.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.