Overtime – Episode #639: Rep. Dean Phillips, Fareed Zakaria, Ian Bremmer.

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Okay, welcome to Overtime.

We're here with Minnesota Congressman and 2024 Democratic Presidential Candidate Dean Phillips, host of Farid Zakaria and GPS on CNN, Farid Zakarian, president of Eurasia Group and Giza Remedia, Ian Bremer.

Here are the questions.

I'm rushing because I got to get to Vegas.

This is for you, Congressman.

Who would you choose to be your running mate?

Oh, good question.

I didn't ask you that.

Oh, I have to choose a different person now?

Well, your running mate.

My running mate?

Yeah.

It's way too early for that.

I will surprise you.

I promise you that.

I promise you that.

I will surprise you.

I will absolutely surprise you with a running mate.

Good surprise or bad surprise?

Good surprise.

Yeah,

it almost sounded like a threat.

I promise you.

Really?

I will surprise you.

It's not Carrot Top, is it?

Carrotop.

I love them, but

I mean,

I can't give away this stuff, so early I know you want to.

All right, did Democrats make a strategic error by not saving Kevin McCarthy now that we're stuck with a much more extreme Speaker of the House?

That's an interesting question.

Well, they're really.

They could have, right?

There's a danger of a really, I mean, as you were alluding to this, of a real political constitutional crisis because Trump is going to be the nominee.

So one of two things are going to happen in 2024.

He's either going to win, that has its own problems, or he's going to claim he won.

Those are the only two options.

Absolutely.

I've said it for seven years.

And, but he's going to show up.

But this time.

Inauguration Day, January 2025, he will show up.

But this time, say the Pennsylvania state legislature, where the laws I think have been changed, where they can send an alternate slate of electors, and who do they send them to?

The Speaker of the House,

Mike Johnson,

who is going to be very willing to hear all this stuff that at least Governor McCarthy in the crunch development.

And let me tell you guys, it's important everybody know this.

We extended a number of overtures to Speaker McCarthy, a number of other Republicans, saying we want to work together.

Just make some modest concessions.

First of all, make the House work.

That was our first demand.

Not one of them would speak to us because they knew if they actually attracted a single Democratic vote, let alone 10, 15, 20, that they would be eviscerated by their brothers and sisters on their side.

That is the culture of Congress that that is absolutely destroying the country.

That's the culture of the House.

The culture of the House.

The culture of the House.

It's not the Senate.

No, it's not that.

That is true, not the Senate.

So that is the truth.

I heard you say before when we were talking that, you know, you're going to stop this, and we've got to work together.

Everybody says that.

What's the plan?

What's the plan to do that?

The plan just said they won't even fucking talk to you.

What's the plan?

Oh, no.

No, no.

Well,

it begins with the surprise running me.

Yes, that it begins.

I mean it.

I was the most bipartisan member of Congress last year, the second most this year.

I really do.

I love my brothers and sisters on both sides.

There are some wonderful Republicans who I think have a chance to rise.

I think want to work together.

This wasn't the time to do it, but wish to do so.

And there are some outspoken.

Again, how do you liberate them from this problem?

I'll tell you why about where they're at.

I'm running for president to win.

I believe we can.

I believe it's time for a new generation.

Does anybody agree, by the way?

And

the last time in American history that I think a president really accomplished the notion of a team of rivals was Abe Lincoln.

And I do think it's time, I really do believe it's time for a Democratic president to ensure that there are conservative voices in the White House,

within the cabinet, having his or her ear, and vice versa.

It should go the other way as well.

And I think, so that's why running for president, you can actually break this gridlock by actually.

I think I know what this surprise is.

No, no, no.

But you're hinting that you would have a team of rivals somebody else.

Absolutely.

So that your vice president would be.

I'm saying I would not rule that out.

You're saying you might.

You're teasing it.

You're saying you might.

Just say it.

Just say it.

It's Ramaswamy.

Oh, no.

That.

I think I can promise you

it ain't.

But somebody like, but like, all right, so we we won't say it's your VP, but like, who are some of the more reasonable Republicans who, if that was the direction you were going into, you'd be aware of the.

Well, first of all, I think we lost two of our great young conservatives in Anthony Gonzalez, Pete Meyer.

They had the audacity.

They had the audacity to vote to impeach Trump, ten of them.

Nine of them got thrown out of the House essentially.

I will tell you that Dusty Johnson, a very principled, good person.

Dusty Johnson.

Dusty Johnson.

Who's that?

See?

You don't know.

Dickie Frank.

I don't know.

I thought he was some old Western actor.

Dusty Johnson.

Remember Dusty Johnson?

No, yeah, no, nobody knows.

Nobody knows.

Okay.

Nobody be on the show next year.

Phillips Johnson.

That's right.

If I out my friends, they're going to lose their races.

I don't want to do it.

I mean, very sincerely.

The problem is they're the workhorses, not the show horses.

You don't know the race.

You know, Lauren Bobert and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Jim Jordan because they're destructive

tired of it.

Mitt Romney.

Mitt Romney, he's a gentleman.

He's a gentleman.

And he's principal.

And he already ran.

He's a known quantity.

I mean, yes, a lot of people hate him, but like, no, but Mitt.

But he stood.

He stood.

He's one of those what I call as good as it gets Republican.

Liz Cheney.

Liz, I sat with Liz Cheney.

They hate, but they don't hate Mitten.

They're principal right now, and it's a shame.

Liz Cheney had principals.

She got thrown out of the house.

I was with her on January 6th when she looked at the television screen, Donald Trump on it.

She said, he's responsible.

We're going to hold him to account.

The whole room erupted, Democrats and Republicans.

A year later, look who was left.

Okay, last question.

RFK is leading among, I read, young people and independents, and in a three-way race, he gets now like higher.

22 percent or 22 percent.

I mean, that's pretty amazing.

Yeah, but he takes more from Trump.

Takes more from Trump.

You know, I mean, he's sort of dominating the conspiracy theory lane, which is a lane now in U.S.

politics.

And if he continues to run, as opposed to like the no-labels, Joe Manchin fever dream, which I think was never going to happen, then it actually gives Biden more of a shot.

And at the end of the day, if good Dean Phillips doesn't somehow make it to take Biden out, then you're going to need to have Biden be able to do it, and a third-party candidate may actually help on that front.

I mean, the fundamental problem, all of these scenarios are terrifying, is we don't actually have a real election, right?

I mean, Biden will win probably by 9 million votes.

But the most powerful man will against

the popular vote, right?

Doesn't mean it's not.

He won by

seven and a half last time.

Oh, I'm glad you're so sanguine about that.

I am not sure.

But what I'm not sanguine about is.

He could totally lose.

No, but even if he won.

I didn't think he was going to lose.

I wouldn't be always afraid of the money.

And for Jean Listen, you're not listening.

You're not listening.

Dean Phillips, I've said it for years.

For God's sake, at least.

And if not, he's Dundee Johnson.

No, but the point is it's going to be decided in four states, right?

I mean, the Electoral College is what matters.

Biden will win the popular vote.

The problem is

four states: Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin.

Doesn't matter.

And you're probably down to them, guys.

He's down in each of the battleground states right now.

That's one reason I'm doing this.

We have to do this.

Alternatively, I got to go to Vegas.

Thank you very much.

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