Ep. #630: Gov. Chris Sununu, James Kirchick, Lt Gov. Winsome Sears

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Maher.

Start the clock.

Thank you, people.

How you doing?

Deafening today.

I know.

What an exciting political day.

Thank you very much.

Please.

Please, there's so much to get to.

I know, I know, I know why you're excited today, huh?

Boy, March came in like a lion and went out with Trump on the lamb.

Well,

I know, this is the first in American history.

You realize that?

No American former president has ever.

And this is, of course, for the payment to Stormy Daniels to keep her mouth shut.

And

we could get bogged down in the legal details of this.

Just suffice it to say, if you don't know all about the details here, that Trump's lawyer went to jail for this.

I mean,

that's like getting the clap and your doctor dies.

So Trump will surrender next week in court in New York.

And

they say,

you know, probably go right home.

They say he's not a flight risk.

Flight risk?

He can't get up a ramp.

But yeah, he's going to

surrender on Tuesday.

He will be arrested.

He will be fingerprinted.

And everybody at MSNBC is asking the same question.

Is it wrong to jerk off to a mug shop?

And

I find it...

I find it so funny that the guy, the DA in New York who brought this case, Alvin Bragg, I love this, that the most boastful man ever in history is indicted by a guy named Bragg.

Sometimes you can't write this shit.

It would be like if the prosecutor in the R.

Kelly case was named Dave Tinkle.

And boy, Trump is pissed.

And I don't blame him.

You know, he's spent his whole life stiffing people.

And the one time he pays someone,

this shit happens.

Ah, boy.

No, of course, he knows the potential for violence, so he's calling for calm.

I'm joking, of course.

He's rousing up his riotous mob of goons to do whatever they're going to do.

And so the authorities are keeping an eye on Trump supporters now because they're worried about this.

They're monitoring social media, right-wing websites, and the smoking section at the Waffle House.

I knew I had to do that.

And of course, all the Republicans are incensed.

Lauren Boebert said, this is not the America that she would have her

illegitimate children raise their illegitimate children in.

Lindsey Graham said, I don't want daddy going to prison.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene was at a complete loss for words.

So no change there.

No.

No, I'm kidding.

Marjorie Taylor Greene, she actually tweeted out.

She said, we must protest this unconstitutional witch hunt.

She said, and then she said, I'm going to New York Tuesday.

Okay, okay, Marjorie.

We'll see you next Tuesday.

But that's not the trial America cares about.

The real trial happened in Utah this week, ladies and gentlemen.

Free at last, free at last.

The goop lady is free at last.

Yes, Gwyneth Paltrow, today it came down the verdict.

She's cleared in this.

It was not her fault, ladies and gentlemen.

Moving scene outside the courthouse after her victory.

She thanked all the jurors and gave them a mint for their anus.

and then her supporters

you don't know passion ladies and gentlemen until you've seen a thousand white people in the snow holding vagina scented candles

And finally, okay, a positive story.

You know that school principal in Tallahassee last week who got fired because she showed kids that picture of Michelangelo's David?

No.

Okay, well last week a, I forget, they come here to get the news.

They don't know the news.

Last week, a school principal in Tallahassee was fired because she showed kids a picture of Michelangelo as David.

So this is kind of cute.

The mayor of Florence, where the statue is, invited her to come and see it for real.

She's wanting to see the real thing.

And she said, no, no, if I want to see a tiny white dick, there's plenty in Tallahassee.

All right.

They got a great show.

James Kirchik and Winsom Earle Sears are here.

But first up, he is the Republican governor of New Hampshire.

Please welcome Chris Sununu.

Governor,

how are you?

Pleasure.

Pleasure to see you.

Tried to get you on here for a long time.

And I know you are out there on the stump today, or maybe.

Well, I know you're making appearances because I know people asked you about the Trump indictment, and you said, wait for tonight.

So here it is.

It's tonight.

What are your feelings?

What a circus, right?

I mean, it is.

It's an absolute circus.

It's throwing a lot of gasoline on the bus.

A circus is a vague term.

In what way?

I mean, Trump is a circus.

You mean a circus to invite.

Yeah, so we're just kind of piling on at this point, right?

So, look, my thing is, you have all this political parties.

But he is all this party.

Do you know what the indictments are?

Like, I'm assuming he is, right?

I mean, let's just jump right at it.

Yeah, great.

And it only helps him, right?

Which is what I think we can all agree, which doesn't understand.

I know.

I don't think he's going to be the nominee.

He shouldn't be the nominee.

He can't win in 24.

But this builds a lot of empathy.

Sympathy, if you will.

It solidifies his base.

I think he will be the nominee.

Really?

I don't think he will win.

He of the faith.

But that never matters to him.

Well, that's it.

Whether he actually wins.

Yeah.

Which brings me to my next question to you.

Okay.

Because I have heard you say that you voted for him twice.

Yeah.

And that if he was the nominee again, you would vote for him again.

Yes.

Yeah.

Look, I'm a lifelong Republican.

I'm the head of the Republican Party in New Hampshire.

I'm the governor.

And if you're telling me the alternative is this socialist agenda that I think is driving America in a very different place, that's not a good deal.

Okay, well, America has always been quasi-socialist, or at least for the last century and a half.

Social Security is socialism.

The Marine Corps is socialism.

Every advanced democracy is quasi-socialist.

Are you saying that where we were in America 30 years ago is where we are today?

Oh my god.

I'm not saying that.

It's an absolute assault on capitalism,

on democracy, on federalism.

And I think that's even coming from certain Republicans as well.

Well, in the 50s,

the tax rate went up to 70%.

Sometimes even though it's a really bad idea, right?

And we fixed it.

So we actually were more socialists then.

I wouldn't have voted for those presidents either.

Okay, well, some of them were Republican.

Yeah.

A bad idea, right?

No, that's absolutely true.

So it's a terrible, terrible idea.

But I mean, you're comparing.

You're comparing, I mean, again, this is where you lose me, and I'd like to be a fan of a guy like you, but I just can't if you don't admit that what Donald Trump tried to do,

not recognizing a fair election, is just not comparable to incremental socialism.

Yes, I agree.

We have too much socialism.

I live in California now.

Sure.

Okay.

Which I would love, I just want to figure out why you're doing that.

That's an issue.

Why I live in California?

Well, there's some good things about this state.

Really?

Yeah.

Look.

Oh, oh, oh,

I used to live in San Francisco.

I lived in San Francisco.

I was a San Francisco resident for three years.

What happened to you?

I said, what did they do to you?

What was so awful?

Oh, my God.

The education.

How did this socialism ruin your life?

Oh, really?

I'm asking.

When my God, I would never bring my kids up in a place.

Look, you have a government here.

Walk down the street.

I'm asking what it did to your life.

It's not my life.

I'm okay.

Walk down the streets of San Francisco.

You tell me Gavin Newsome's policies, what the Democrats are supposed to be, all about social issues.

You tell me the Democrats are winning and taking care of the people of San Francisco, the homeless crisis?

You're talking to a governor who has the lowest poverty rate in the country, and I work really hard.

Okay, we have homelessness.

So he has failed the people of this state.

And it's a humanitarian crisis.

You should be appalled by that.

But again, things are different in size.

Size matters.

Would you not agree, Governor?

I don't know anything about that.

Because you're a big state, you don't have zoomed up.

But one guy doesn't acknowledge elections, tried to overturn our democratic system.

You don't see that as a different.

January 6th was an absolute disaster, one of the worst days in American history.

We can all be aware of that.

But not worse than the tax going from 36 to 39 percent.

So think about that.

That's more of a threat to America?

Oh, it's not just that, though.

It's losing energy independence.

It's inflation, which hurts the poor.

These are normal problems.

No.

These are normal problems we've always had.

You think America has normal problems today?

You think we've had these problems before?

All the problems except for Trump are normal problems that we always used to work out.

So look, here's the good news.

I'm going to give you the good news.

Ready?

I love you.

I'm a big fan.

Thanks.

But you're dead wrong.

He's not going to be the nominee.

He's not going to be the nominee.

The election is so far away.

No one's challenged him on the stump.

No one's even thinking.

We're at Wonks.

We're in this world.

But the average American is just trying to put gas in their car and feed their family.

So the average voter won't even make up their mind until about three weeks before how this all plays out, not just with him, but all the other potential candidates.

So much, so much to play.

It's going to be fun.

Okay.

We'll just finish this on this note.

My prediction, different than yours.

My prediction is he will be the nominee.

Okay.

Okay.

And you're right.

This indictment today is going to help him get that.

I don't think he will beat Biden in the election.

No, there's no way Trump can win in election.

But it doesn't matter because he doesn't acknowledge election results.

This is what I'm trying to say.

And I agree with that.

This is the thing that is the bigger thing.

Okay.

But I just want to say one more thing about that.

So if that's the case, then why do you care if he's the nominee?

You're going to get your Biden.

Because he won't acknowledge the results.

And wokeism will go on and cancel culture will go on, which I don't think you're a big fan of.

I'm not.

That is exactly what's going to happen.

I'm a big fan of perspective.

I'm a big fan of knowing this is this big and this is this big.

You're right.

I'm a big critic of a lot of this nonsense on the left.

It's still, okay, we've said it.

Okay.

One more thing.

Never Trumper.

We've heard that.

You're obviously not that because you vote for him twice and you're going to vote for him.

But you are.

I'm not going to vote for him again because he's not going to be the nominee.

But go ahead.

Okay, but if he is, you said you would.

If he is the nominee.

I'm going to support the Republican.

Okay.

That's.

Does that surprise you, by the way?

That the head of, that the Republican governor and the lifelong Republican would support the Republican, which, by the way, half of America is like that.

It doesn't surprise me.

It disappoints me.

Because,

you know why?

Because

my friend George Will told me, you've got to have Chris Sununu on.

He's aggressively sane.

That's not sane.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you have to own something.

Are you saying that all the Republicans, which is the 50 million people, whoever that would likely also vote for him in the general election, are you saying they're not sane?

See, that's where Biden goes too far.

He demonizes the entire party because of Trump.

He demonizes anyone that supports Trump as equating them to him.

He's his own circus.

Not agreeable.

You can't equate all of us to that.

Not aggressively saying.

Okay.

But there's something that we don't have a term for.

You're not a never-Trumper, but many people are never Trumpers, even in your own party.

You're a never-Democrater.

And that to me is even more dangerous.

Even more dangerous.

But you won't acknowledge that the Democratic Party is not evil.

And

look, I've had Democrats run my legislature.

I always negotiate with them.

We always get stuff done.

You're talking to a government.

I have to get a look at everything.

I mean, if you're going to go to the left, I might not vote for them, but I'm always working with them.

So there's no Republican,

I mean, Trump, Castro, if he came back to life and was a Republican, you'd vote for him over.

Come on, come on, come on.

Look,

I've been elected four times

in the state, and I have to get elected every two years.

And people say, well, that's crazy.

You never get anything done.

I say, no, just the opposite.

I throw politics aside and I work with whoever the...

I've had Republican legislatures, Democrat legislatures.

I always get my tax cuts.

I always know how to give a little to get a lot.

And if, you know, I am one of the more

popular governors in the country.

It's not because of my warmth and charm, because I'm a politician.

Let's remember what you're doing.

But again, it's because I'm always willing to listen.

We rebuild mental health systems.

We rebuild the treatment and recovery systems.

We get into design.

I'm an engineer, so I love rebuilding those systems because I don't care about the politics.

Politics doesn't come into play with addiction or a child that can't get mental health services or having to fund education and making sure we're,

I'm from the live-free or die state, right?

I believe very strongly, you do you.

I'm going to create as many doors of opportunities.

Who calls it pot, by the way?

My kids are now calling you a book.

No.

Yeah.

Everybody who smokes it?

No, it's weed.

But anyway.

If you were selling it on the street 30 years ago, I get it.

It was pot.

No, no, sweetheart.

I think I know more about pot than you, and we still call it pot.

We call it pot.

We call it weed.

But, okay.

but I mean you're from a state of 1.4 million people.

There are more people online right now at Disneyland.

Yeah?

Okay, I'm just saying.

What's wrong with that?

Well, I mean, that's exactly what America needs.

America is dying for leadership that understands details, that connects with people one-on-one, that doesn't worry about the politics, that knows how to redesign systems.

We've had leadership that lives in headlines and political stunts and raising money.

Leadership that actually connects and looks somebody in the eye, can talk to someone about not getting VA benefits, can talk to...

that is exactly solutions-driven leadership is exactly what America is looking for.

I wish you were right.

But

I know you want, you're not a guy who gets involved too much in the culture war stuff.

You want to bring the Republican Party back to normal.

Yes.

But what you don't understand is that that train left, the normal, is the Trump nuts.

That is your party now.

And they're not.

And they like the culture war stuff.

They'll punish you for not doing the culture war stuff.

But the majority of Republicans are still here, right?

We have the extremes on the left, the extremes on the right.

And we might be Republican and Democrat, but 80% of America is still here.

Believe in that.

Now, we hand, the media hands the microphones to those extremes, but that doesn't define us.

Are Democrats defined by AOC and Bernie Sanders?

No.

They're not defined by socialism.

And we're not defined by this extreme alt-white.

Well, you try.

What?

I mean, you try to define them that way.

Well, and the Dems try to define us that way.

Of course.

As you just did.

But America is dying to be here, results-driven.

Who gets it done?

Who can work with Democrats?

Who can work with Republicans?

I have a tremendous record of doing that.

It's hard, don't get me wrong.

But the discipline of good leadership is knowing the limits of your power and believing that the voter, I'm the governor, and the voter is smarter than me.

So the voter knows what's in there.

They know what their school needs.

They know what their business needs.

They know what their community needs.

So in New Hampshire, it's local control.

And this whole idea of big government solutions, and that's why my mind goes crazy with these Republicans that are trying all this big government solution stuff.

Stop it.

The 10th Amendment works.

Yeah, the founding fathers, as we say in New Hampshire, they were wicked smart, right?

States come first, and in states, cities and towns come first.

Not about everything.

Not about everything.

But in terms of the design of the system.

And look, I get it.

It's not

going to be normal.

You're running for president.

I'm going to wait to see what percentage of the potential candidates get indicted.

And

if it's over 25%,

then we'll see.

And we're halfway there, so you never know.

Honestly, I've never seen anybody who looks more like they're chomping at the bit to run.

I don't know.

Look, I'm not chomping.

I love my job.

I love being governor.

And my job right now is also, I want to remind people, the Republican Party has an awesome product, but man, are we bad at messaging?

We have the worst messengers and the worst message.

But when we get to the core of what we're about, is individual comes first.

Individual liberties, low taxes, no sales or income or interest and dividends tax.

So you should all rethink your life choices and stuff.

That's not the messaging.

What you have.

No, it's horrible messaging.

What you have is a loathsome person at the head of the party who people like you will not turn against.

Oh, I haven't turned against Trump.

You said you'd vote for him again, no matter who.

You call Donald Trump.

You ask him how chummy we are.

He doesn't care if you're chummy.

He has your endorsement for next time if he's the nominee.

No, he's not going to be the nominee.

He's really

not letting it play out.

There's so much politics to be had here.

And again, the problem is with what happened yesterday is it's the same thing.

Chris Christie is also chomping at the bit to get in.

I love Chris.

I don't think he's going to run, but I do love him.

He told me personally he's going to run.

I love Chris, but I think he's making too much money.

He's going to run.

God bless him.

He should be doing it.

But he's taking a different lane than all the other guys.

Not Pence, who looks like he's going to run.

Nikki Haley's already done.

I think you're going to run?

Yeah.

You obviously not.

Chris D's strategy is completely the opposite of yours.

He says you've got to go toe-to-toe and completely knock out Donald Trump.

And so what do you think about that?

Look, if I chose to run, I would love to get on the debate stage.

I mean, that would be my first step.

With Donald Trump.

Yeah, because too many people think you debate Trump on policy.

What kind of name is that?

So

people think, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Puno, nothing.

So people think you debate Trump on policy.

You don't debate him on policy.

You debate him at his level.

Well, that's what Christie's saying you have to do.

Yeah, then he's absolutely right.

You would do that too.

Oh, I would love it.

I would love it.

But look, I'm not in to get into, I'm not going to jump in just to make the field too big.

I'm not going to jump in if there's not a

I think Republicans have lost a lot of independents.

I think we've lost a lot of young voters.

I'm trying to bring them back on the team because we are normal, because we do have a great product.

We just don't have folks that know how to sell it.

Well, you did one smart thing in running for this presidency already.

You came on this show.

Anytime you have it.

And I appreciate it.

Appreciate it very much.

All right, Governor Sununo, let's meet our panel.

Hey.

All right.

He is a colonist for Tablet Magazine, writer-at-large for Air Mill, and author of Secret City, the Hidden History of Gay Washington.

James Kirchik is over here.

Good to see you back, Jamie.

And she is the first woman to serve as Lieutenant Governor of Virginia and the first woman of color and Jamaican-born American to hold statewide office in Virginia's history.

Winsom Earl Sears.

Great to have you here.

Okay, so obviously we've got to continue this discussion.

I feel like,

you know, civilizations probably end when the choices become impossible and we have this impossible choice here.

Maybe not for you.

Maybe you like Trump.

He is your party.

But for me, it's like you can't not go after him because he's always guilty.

The same thing with the impeachments, right?

He was guilty of both.

But I always ask myself the question, what is actually better for the future of the country and my future?

Because I don't want to live in a country where we are one of these places where whoever is president, as soon as they get out of office, they go after them.

And I guarantee Yeah, I don't know.

It's almost Greek

tragedy-like because you set off this cycle of revenge, like the House of Atreus.

And I guarantee you,

when Biden is out of office, day two, they will try to arrest him.

Well, we're not Greek.

We're Americans.

And this is the American experiment that's going to continue.

It's bigger than any one person.

It's bigger than a party.

And,

you know, this is the America that people are dying to get into.

This is the America that had my father come in and allowed him to come in with only $1.75.

And now he's comfortably retired because he took any job he could find and got a good education with that.

So I have hope for America because where else are we going to run to?

There's no place else like America.

But that does not

very specifically address the question of Donald Trump's indictment.

I mean, where are you on that?

Well, here's what I'm saying.

Everybody deserves due process, right?

We don't even know what the charges are.

Do you know what they are?

I hear that there are 30 of them.

Right now, we're pretty much speculating.

What I'm saying is, I think, like my grandmother said, be careful that you don't dance on the grave of your enemy because you may fall in.

So let's just wait and see what plays out.

I think the tragic part of this is that there are three other investigations going on right now.

All of them far more serious

than paying off a porn star.

The investigation into January 6th and his potential responsibility for that.

The investigation into the documents that he pilfered.

And the investigation into him trying to swing the election in Georgia, where there's an audio phone recording of him.

And if you're audio recording where he's saying, I need you to find me 11,000 votes.

I mean, the term smoking gun, and we're going to get to guns.

So if we're going to go after, if you're going to indict the first president ever in the history of this country for something, and the real precedent, the real potentially dangerous precedent that that sets, why couldn't it have been for one of these other investigations rather than this new one, which is going on a novel legal

theory that the DA in Manhattan has?

It's unclear if he'll even be able to get a conviction.

And actually, you know, the Washington Post editorial board, which is no friend of Republicans, has said that this is a very flimsy charge and it may not hold up because John Edwards was actually charged pretty similar to this.

And he was acquitted on one of the counts and the hung jury on the rest because

the jury accepted that he was not really campaign donating as much as he was trying to hide the affair from his wife.

Which is

the same situation applied.

The same situation applies.

And there was an actual baby.

Yes.

Well,

you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Is that from your grandmother also?

But do you agree with me?

First of all, this unites Republicans who were kind of going in two different directions.

This unites them because they will get behind him.

And it also makes him the nominee.

I mean, DeSantis right now is saying, I can't get arrested.

Would someone please arrest me?

Well,

speaking of DeSantis, if you want to talk about banana republics, for DeSantis to come out and say he's not going to cooperate in a potential extradition of Trump were one necessary, that's real third-world

behavior.

Yeah.

But just so we know who we're dealing with here and what the repercussions are going to be, again, to respectfully disagree with the governor, here's what Trump said.

He was in Waco, which just to pick Waco as a place to kick off your campaign.

I guess Guantanamo Bay was booked.

You know, actually, what most people don't know about Waco, Texas is that it was started by a Jamaican who came, yeah, left Jamaica, founded the town, you know, bought thousands of acres because he said God told him, and now we have Waco, Texas.

Unfortunately, no, but it's a nice town.

I did not know that.

And Guantanamo Bay, my grandfather worked in Guantanamo Bay because, you know, Cuba is just 45 minutes away from Jamaica.

So I resemble all that.

But here's what he said in Waco.

Among other things.

He said, I built hundreds of miles of wall and completed that task totally as promised.

Now,

the fact that a guy can tell his supporters at this late stage this and say it out loud and have them not, I don't know what, just immediately head for the exits, just tells tells you we are living in a post-factual world.

Well, Donald Trump, I've said this, everything Donald Trump says makes sense if you just preface it.

With Donald Trump, you're on the air.

And then it's, he's,

he's just,

he's just a schmuck who calls in to talk radio.

And that's what he does for,

you know, three hours every day.

All right, so.

We have a story this week, a tragic story, unfortunately, but it combines every element that divides this country.

You had a shooting in Nashville, Tennessee.

It was at a Christian school, a Christian school for, I guess, under high school, but, you know, it was definitely a Christian school.

The shooter, we've had so many shooters, but this one was trans.

And

there was a...

day of vengeance planned, just coincidentally, a trans day of vengeance planned, it has since been canceled, four five days later.

So all this is in the mix.

Before we get to all this stuff that's difficult to talk about, could I just say one word about the cops who rushed in?

Because after Uvaldi, I feel...

They're heroes who rushed in.

Yes, they are heroes.

Exactly.

That's the point.

And that's why we're not defunding the police.

Because who are you going to call when they're breaking into your home, Bill?

That's right.

No, I'm all.

Look, I've said some things about the police they have not liked in the past.

And I'll say it again.

I mean, there are lots of issues with the police.

Like, somebody was here just recently and said 99% of them are good people.

And I said, as I always have, we just don't know that.

For good people, there's an awful lot of tape of them being bad.

But, okay, I think most of them are good.

I've also said I don't understand why all of them have to fire every bullet in their clip every time one of them is scared.

Lots of problems with the police, but how about this?

And they've gotten a lot of shit in the last few years for something that the vast majority of them don't do and didn't do.

But when they do get one right, it would be nice to hear from the people who usually shit on them once to say, okay, you got this one right, and you did something I couldn't do, which is rush into a,

okay, that's it.

Yeah, because

your mouth won't fall off because you said something nice about the police.

Because have you ever noticed that as soon as somebody needs a cop, you know, all, you know, it's a totally different scenario.

Right.

But otherwise, they talk ill of them.

And in every profession, there are bad apples.

There are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad teachers, bad cops.

Get rid of them and run with the rest.

Right.

Well, that's much more complicated to do, but I take your point.

So the other thing I'd like to say about this is we're the media anxiously waiting on all this information about the shooter.

How about we have a blackout on the shooters and what they did?

You know, this is

a feed off of each other.

Yesterday was the opening of the baseball season.

Now, in baseball, when somebody runs on the field, the camera doesn't show it.

They don't give that person any publicity.

Why can't we at least do that in this country?

I don't want to hear anything about it.

We know it happened.

I don't want to know what orientation this person is, how old they are, what their manifesto said.

I don't give a shit about any of it because it's just going to inspire the next one because they all feed on each other.

That's true.

That's the least the media could do.

Yeah, except that I think the horror of of it, you know, that there were three children involved and then of course the adults and that lives were just taken just like that without any purpose behind it, without, there was no warning.

There's a shock to your system.

But once you set that aside, yes,

then let's not keep talking about it.

I don't want to hear what the manifesto is because some other idiot will come along and try to improve upon whatever that is.

And I think, Bill, if we can keep, here's the thing, if we can keep people from getting on planes without guns, then surely we can do that in the school system.

We can do that.

We have the technology.

Let's get it done.

That's the first order of business.

Well, it takes like an hour and a half to get on a plane.

Are you saying that we should be doing that?

Your life is worth it.

If the business is a good idea, you're saying patients should have to go through security for an hour, like and take off their shoes and their belt and put them in the thing every day to go into school.

I think you might need

armed guards and there are other

measures that are necessary.

Because, look, you're never going to get rid of the 400 million guns in this country, whether you want to or not.

It's impossible.

It would spark a civil war if you tried to confiscate them all.

So, what I think is going to happen.

And bad people will always get guns.

Always.

That's the thing, because you know what?

They're not giving up their guns.

Because they're the bad people.

They're the bad people.

Just like the drugs.

We have a war on drugs.

We can't get rid of them, Bill.

They're still coming across the border.

Well, thank God for that.

But uh

look the gun thing is lieutenant governor i can't let that go

well in this state marijuana is legal well hey remember i'm from jamaica

there is that bill

exactly and i hear we have the best i'm just saying i don't know i've never touched uh you do have very good oh well yeah jamaican is very good you come on you must have sampled some of your own supply no no no see really see most people don't realize that many Jamaicans don't do that.

It's most of the Rastafarians, and they do it to reach a higher level, you know.

Oh, they do.

It's a much higher level.

But first of all, I don't think this is even about guns anymore in this country.

You know, I saw these pictures of the governor, no, not the governor, I think the congressman there in Nashville.

He's, oh, there he is.

This is his Christmas card.

I mean, and, you know, these are not the only ones.

There are many Republican politicians who do that.

When you put...

Including the lieutenant governor.

Is that right?

Is that the AR?

Yeah.

I'm a Marine.

I know how to use it.

And here's what...

No, I wouldn't do it for Christmas, but here's the thing.

I've had few victories tonight, but I consider that one of them.

Well, that was the bigger gun that was brought.

But listen.

I got tired, and I have that photograph, because I got tired of seeing black people every time we're in the media about guns.

It's always bad.

We are law-abiding citizens, and we're not going to give up our Second Amendment rights.

And by the way, the fastest-growing segment of gun owners, do you know who they are?

I'm glad you asked.

It's women.

Women.

Black women, yes.

Black women.

Black women.

And it was a black woman that said you need a Winchester rifle in every home.

A black woman

during the civil rights and before said that.

And Harriet Tubman carried a gun.

If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me.

Well, it makes sense because guns are a leveler.

You know,

if you don't have guns, then the person who is physically stronger is always going to win.

I mean, I do not like guns.

I have guns.

I don't like them.

It's like I always compare them to antibiotics.

I never wanted to take one.

But I'm glad they exist

because I'm as small as some women.

And I may need just to

level the playing field.

You know, I mean.

Let me finish laughing, Bill.

Okay.

My point with the picture, though, is that I think this whole gun debate, because you know, there could be a grand bargain, there could be reasonable things that people do.

It is not unreasonable what the liberals are asking for, which is just that the guns be harder to get, especially for the people who have shown that they may do something rotten with them.

You know, this is not crazy stuff.

I think 25 states now you can carry without a permit.

I mean I don't want to live in the old West.

I don't think this is...

No, go ahead.

I'm just

I think it's about something else, just like a relationship fight.

It's never about what you're really fighting about.

It's not about the toothpaste or the toilet seat or the pressure.

But you mean it's not you, it's me?

What I mean is like guns is their way of just saying fuck you to the liberals.

It's just we're going to own you.

We don't like your crazy shit.

You want to be crazy?

I'll be crazy too.

And mine has bullets.

That's what that's about.

I think it's deeper than that.

And I think a lot of gun rights supporters, they view the Second Amendment like the First Amendment.

And that just there are just as there are negative consequences of the First Amendment, you have to tolerate bigoted, crazy people saying things that you don't like, because that's protected under the First Amendment.

Under the Second Amendment, you have to tolerate the fact that there are going to be thousands of innocent people killed by guns every year.

Because that's the price of the freedom that is the Second Amendment.

Now, I might not like that, and a lot of people don't like that, but that's how I think most gun rights supporters look at it.

And so, you're never gonna,

you're never gonna change that.

You're never gonna be, unless you get rid of the Second Amendment, you're never gonna resolve that.

And you're not gonna get rid of the Second Amendment.

You're not gonna get rid of the Second Amendment.

Let me tell you, I think what most people say is that the Second Amendment is there to back up the First Amendment.

And that's all well and good, too.

But here's the thing: if you're breaking into my home while I'm waiting on the police to come,

I'm gonna shoot you.

That's why I have a lot of people.

That's just the way it is.

Me too.

Because it's not.

You know,

that's exactly who it is.

I'm going to pray for you, but I'm going to shoot you.

I'll do you one better.

I'm going to skip the prayer.

So,

listen, I'm beginning to think this Trump guy is not good for the country because he...

He's, this rally I was talking about that he did in Waco, he is now playing a song.

He's an amazing man.

Not only was he the president of the United States and a big TV star and soon to be arrested, but apparently

he is apparently also a pop star because he was bragging, and he's not wrong, he had for a short period of time the number one record on the charts.

They put out a record with the J6 choir.

These are the people on January 6th who are in jail for rioting against the United States government.

This is not a joke, and it was number one.

Here, have a little listen to what...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

You can see why it went to number one.

I mean, that is just, that is some catchy shit, boy.

I mean...

Anyway, when a song goes to number one, what does the record company always say?

Now we want an album.

So

we got an advanced copy.

It's called Appetite for Insurrection.

Would you like to hear some of the cuts on the album?

It's got songs like, I guess that's why they call it fake news.

Janie's Got a Space Laser.

The Kids Are Alt Right is a good cut on this album.

Oh, this is a great cut.

WAP, White Ass Patriot.

Rioters delight.

Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be groomers.

Midnight Call to Georgia.

My favorite, Despot Cheeto.

I heard it through the microwave.

And me and Alex Jones, we got a thing going on.

So,

all right, so let's talk about the trans side of this, because of course, as soon as this incident happened, everybody broke down into their two sides.

It's because of the guns and then this trans thing.

And I know you feel like, I know a lot of my gay friends feel the same way, that the LGBTQ is a a coalition that needs to come apart, right?

That the T perhaps should be its own thing and you're lumping people together who actually, aside from not having a lot of things in common, actually have some things that are contradicting each other.

Well, I think up to the point where the trans movement was looking for equality and dignity and respect, the same thing that the gay movement was looking for, then that's fine.

And most Americans support that.

And by the way, since 2020, in a Supreme Court decision that was written by a Trump-appointed judge, Neil Gorsuch, trans people are now protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Where I think the problem is, where some of the conflicts are coming, is in dealing with children.

Because a lot of these gender non-conforming children would otherwise grow up to be gay.

I mean, if you're a boy who's wearing his sister's dresses and playing with dolls, I mean, you know, seven out of ten times, you're probably going to grow up to be gay.

And likewise for maybe a tomboy girl.

Many of them will grow up to be straight, too, who knows?

But a lot of these kids are now being told because of this radical gender ideology that they're actually a member of the opposite sex.

And so this is where the conflict is coming in.

And I think it's.

Well, they're being also told, and some no, it varies from school to school.

But sometimes they're just being told that there really is no such thing as sex, that it's all sort of on a spectrum.

There's no such thing as boys and girls.

You're born, if you have a penis, it could be an indication of being a male.

But I mean,

it's just a jump ball.

We'll figure it out later, and we can always cut it off.

And actually, that's the problem, because nobody's talking about the opposite side of that equation, which is we're now finding that these children want to detransition, and they can't.

They're adults now.

And unfortunately, you know, the breasts were cut off, other parts were cut off, and they're lamenting that they'll never be able to have children.

They'll never be able to experience that

part of them.

Probably most, I think the studies show, most of the people who do it say they are glad they did it.

Now, some of that could be sunken cost fallacy.

You know what sunken cost fallacy is?

It's like...

No, but I'm sure you'll tell us.

We should do a morning show together.

We'd be perfect.

No, yes, it's when you put money into something, so much money, that you kind of can't admit that you made a mistake because you've already put a lot into it.

So some of that could be that.

It's like, well, I did it, and I don't have a dick now.

I'm just going to have to make this work.

But I think most who do it, I mean, and

I've talked to parents about this.

A lot of times, you just know, that kid is not gay.

That kid was, you know, there was just the factory-installed equipment didn't match.

Okay, that's a real thing.

It happens.

It's rare, but it happens.

But, and you're talking about there are other ones now because it is also somewhat trendy.

I know people hate to hear of that, but it's obviously true.

There is an element of social contagion, or else it wouldn't be so prevalent here and not in Indiana.

It wouldn't be regional.

But, you know.

So there are advanced democracies in Europe that have been doing this a lot longer with children, pediatric transgender medicine.

They're now dialing back

to the very countries that liberals always look for.

Sweden, Britain, Finland, these are not right-wing fascist anti-trans countries.

Right.

And yet in this country, a lot of these trans activists say the science is settled.

The science is settled, and if you disagree, you are a bigot.

And you're a fascist.

And that is a real problem.

That kind of rhetoric, that hyperbolic rhetoric makes it very difficult to talk about this issue.

I agree.

It's like any, if you argue at all, you're a bigot.

And,

you know, just the fact that they were going to have a trans day of vengeance.

Can you imagine any other group in this country announcing a day of vengeance in their name, what the reaction would be?

I just want to ask the trans people, what are we doing?

Or what should we be doing that we're not doing?

I asked my staff, I said, you know, I mentioned the thing you just said, that yes, June of 2020, the Supreme Court ruled that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 applies to discrimination also based on gender identity and sexual orientation.

I said, but I know Biden has done other stuff.

I got four pages of stuff the Biden administration has done, and maybe they're all deserving.

But I'm just saying,

sometimes I just don't know.

This is the point.

Like it seems like a power game with them.

We can make you do this and this.

Well, what's interesting, if you've noticed, they are misgendering and dead naming the murderer.

They are referring to the murderer by their given name, not their chosen name, and by their

referring to her as a woman, as opposed to what her identity apparently was, was a man, which is not the way the media usually does these things.

They're usually very particular about the subjective sense of gender identity in respecting that.

If someone says they're a man, then they're a man.

But in this case, they're not doing that.

Hang on, you know what?

This person murdered six people.

I don't really care who you say you are.

You murdered six people and three of them were children.

You don't get a say.

Well, she's dead now, so, you know, but you don't get a say in telling us who you are and what you're about.

You killed six people.

Okay, but that's what I'm saying.

All right, so here's what I'm saying.

Talk about the issue without the

issue then, well, no, because you brought it out, so you know,

talk about it.

So now we're on to something else.

But here's the thing.

I'm a parent.

I'm a parent all day.

I get to decide what happens in my child's life.

Not you, not the government, not anybody.

I don't co-parent.

I had this child.

I'm responsible for this child.

Anything happens to little Johnny, you're calling me.

Right?

As you should.

Right.

Right.

So what I'm saying, hang on.

So what I'm saying now is,

if I don't want my child given lap dances at school by a drag queen, I don't want it done.

That's happening.

But do you think the state should have the right?

Do you think the state should have the right to?

I'm talking about as a parent.

I am a parent.

Forget the state.

I'm a parent.

Lap dancer.

This is my child.

I will make a decision about what happens with my child.

I'm not sure lap dancers.

It's happening.

Don't you see it?

You know, there's drag queens story out there.

There are definitely drag queens reading to children.

There are drag queens that are doing pole dances.

There are drag queens that are in school.

What?

bill you gotta read more.

I guess I do.

I mean I'm sure anything happens anywhere, somewhere, but really, but this is not a common thing.

No, but if it happens to a child, I've seen videos where the child was taken to like a pub, which is not right either, where it happens.

I've never seen it happen in a school.

First of all, so few schools have polls.

Let me tell you, there are, they take them to the libraries, you know, all these things.

The library, this is happening in the middle.

Listen,

Bill?

Well, okay.

You got to get out more, man.

Well, I don't have kids.

I don't have kids, so I don't hear about this.

You know, no one comes to daddy.

No, this is the same thing.

No, I had a great library.

It's not happening.

Well, not that you know about.

Well, I mean, I do hear that, but not from

No.

Okay, so schools, as long as we have a couple of minutes, the schools are, see, this is always what happens, is that, like I was agreeing with the governor, there is a lot of crazy stuff on the left.

I'm the one who calls it out over here.

But it always engenders then an almost worse reaction on the right.

So they're like taking books out of schools now.

Or they're, you know, there was a book about Rosa Parks, and they said they had

Friday Bridges, I think.

Well, Boss Park.

Oh, Rosa Parks, too.

Rosa Parks, and they took out the part where she was black.

I'm not kidding, because they don't want everybody, they don't want the kids thinking about race.

And I agree, sometimes the left makes the kids think way too much about race, too young.

But to not mention that Rosa Park

and she was just a lady who wouldn't give up her, it's dumb.

That's dumb.

Okay.

Absolutely dumb.

Right, okay.

Listen, half of what we're experiencing today doesn't make any sense.

We live in

a world of chaos, a world of confusion, up is down, and right is left, and whatever.

We need to come back to a place of sensibility where we can talk about things.

I mean, we talked about guns before and nobody realizes, or maybe, you know, we've forgotten that Martin Luther King Jr.

applied for a concealed carry permit and he didn't get it.

Do you know why?

Because they said, wait for it.

He didn't have good character.

So what I'm saying is, let's just live and let live.

You want to live your life a certain way.

Do it.

I'll live my life a certain way.

I'm doing it.

This is America, after all.

You know, don't force me to like.

And just because, you know, I don't hate, it's just that you're doing what you're doing.

I'm doing what I'm doing.

Let's be okay with that.

Okay.

That's a great way to end this segment.

Thank you very much.

You guys were fun.

Time for new rules, everybody.

New rules.

Okay.

New rules.

Stop being so hard on South Carolina's chief accountant, Richard Ekstrom, just because his year-end financial report was off by $3.5 billion.

Like your checkbook is always perfectly balanced.

Plus, can you honestly say he's the first South Carolina official where something just doesn't quite add up?

Neural, now that police and Fresno have seized all this evidence from a group of Nazis, someone has to ask the Nazis, what's with all the Nazi coffee mugs?

I mean, the guns and the flags I get, but coffee mugs kind of kill the vibe, no?

Are you a hate group or a book club?

Do you also have little swastika towels for the guest bathroom?

No, honey, those are just for Nazi company.

New ruler, the Canadian city of Regina, Saskatchewan, has to double down and take back their apology for the Show Us Your Regina tourism campaign they aired this month.

Really?

Don't apologize.

It was a great campaign and it was true because I've been to Regina and in the summer it's great, but in the winter it can get pretty hairy.

It's a terrible joke.

Don't look at me that way, Merle.

Neural, no more using your astrological sign as an excuse for shitty behavior.

Sorry I'm late again, boss, but hey, I'm a Leo.

Really?

That's why?

This right here, this, this shape in the sky?

Well, I guess that shape is pretty powerful because it just got you fired.

I'm sorry, was that impulsive?

I know I'm an Aquarius.

New Real, now that Kanye says he likes Jews again because he saw Jonah Hill in 21 Jump Street,

no one show him the Wolf of Wall Street

because he doesn't make the Jews look too good at that one.

And finally, New Rule, you shouldn't be able to talk about DEI anymore in America.

DEI, that's diversity, equity, and inclusion, without including atheists.

Thank you, a few of you.

Atheists, we're approaching a third of the population now.

I shouldn't have to beg for this, for God's sake.

It's outrageous.

There are this many of us, and there is still zero

representation in government.

Congress has 535 members, and only a handful will even sheepishly admit they're religiously unaffiliated.

The Supreme Court is two Protestants, one Jew, and six people more Catholic than the Pope.

And even intellectual presidents like Obama, who admit to being secular humanists,

have to pretend to be religious.

No one has been able to admit their shameful secret: I don't believe in ghosts.

Now,

next Sunday is Easter, so enjoy.

First you've heard of it?

Okay.

Yeah, enjoy, if that's your thing.

Bunny rabbits that shit eggs to celebrate the Son of God.

Whatever floats your ark.

But it's not fair that people who belong to one of the big religions,

they all get this cosmic personal day.

Where the world revolves around them.

I mean, here we are in the middle of the great egg shortage, and yet next Sunday we're going to take the few eggs we have and hide them in the yard.

There's also now a movement for schools to officially recognize Ramadan, the Muslim month of fasting, and I'm all for it, or anything that gets our fat kids to eat less.

But while approximately 3 million Americans celebrate Ramadan, 100 million say they have no religion at all.

What the fuck?

Where's our day?

Is that really so much to ask that this many people get one day a year when we recommit ourselves to observable reality?

One day with no atonement, no corpse reanimation.

No fasting, no tree in your house, no

big rock to circle, no dirt on your your forehead, no candles to light, and please God, no fruitcakes.

Just a yearly three-day weekend to celebrate your deeply held belief that with Monday off you can drink on Sunday night.

And get to sleep in because there is no place to gather, to affirm we all believe the same shit.

We know what we believe believe and what we don't believe.

We don't need to rub elbows with other people who don't believe it too.

And we don't need to commercialize our holiday like all the other religions do.

Atheist Day is about not buying something like virgin birth.

I'm not buying it.

We have the numbers.

We can do this.

The fastest growing religious group in the United States are nuns.

No, not the kind who used to beat you with a ruler for being left-handed.

I mean people who, when asked how much they want to be involved with a religion, say, none.

The unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular, has risen from 5% in 1972 to 15% in 2005 to 32% today.

You're welcome.

And lest you think it's only young educated white liberals, no, just about everybody is losing their religion, or as I call it, Holy Ghosting.

The average age of a nun is 43.

A third are people of color.

A quarter voted for Trump.

70% don't have a four-year college degree.

Millennials are the first generation that are less than a majority Christian.

Their idea of hell is a coffee shop with no Wi-Fi.

When asked how often they go to church, 34% of younger millennials answered seldom/slash never or don't know.

Don't know?

Hey, kids, going to church is like having an orgasm.

If you didn't know you did, you didn't.

And that's another great thing about Atheist Day.

You don't have to fake it.

You don't even have to be an atheist to enjoy it.

Just like you don't have to be Christian to enjoy Christmas.

I still love Christmas.

You don't have to be an atheist to celebrate Atheist Day.

I'd like it to be the one day a year that the devout can get a little taste.

of what it's like to live your life without some mythical daddy figure judging and condemning you for being the exact person he made you.

Atheist Day should be a day for believers to stop and ask yourselves: why?

Why?

Why make up a being who's constantly disappointed in you?

You don't need it.

You've got your wife.

And your parents, your siblings, your coworkers, your trainer when you don't give 110%.

There are plenty of people right here on earth who will gladly make you feel like a lame, incompetent fuck-up.

Why make up one more?

It's like adding an extra mother-in-law.

Why always be tormented?

I better not make Jesus cry.

Baby, Jesus, cry.

Why?

Is he sitting behind you on a plane?

Wouldn't you like one day, one one goddamn day in the year, when for 24 hours you can tell your God to climb down off your ass?

Because trying to please a man who's not there sets you up for a lifetime of misery.

Just ask Tiffany Trump.

All right, that's our show.

We're off next week and back April 14th.

I'll be at the Matt in Philadelphia, June 3rd, Wind Creek Event Center, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, June 4th, and the MGM Grand in Vegas, June 16th and 17th.

I want to thank Dami Kritchik, Lieutenant Governor Winston Earl Sears, and Governor Chris Tununu.

Now go watch overtime on CNN Tonight.

On CNN Tonight at 1130 or catch it Saturday morning on YouTube.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.

That was fun.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.