Overtime – Episode #614: Masih Alinejad, Van Jones, Caitlin Flanagan

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late month series, real time with Bill Ma.

Okay,

we're here back on overtime.

Welcome back.

Nice to have you here on the panel.

Okay, this is for Caitlin.

What?

I don't think anybody has put Blowtops in the chip sack in the same sentence.

So this is a career high.

Okay.

And that's why.

Okay, carry on.

All right, get me back on.

In a reversal, New York City announced they will tighten admissions to their top high schools and rely more on merit rather than the lottery system that was previously used.

What do you make of this?

Well, merit's obviously such a controversial word right now.

What's meant by merit?

Is it what you did on a test and why is one person able to

have access to so much testing material, et cetera?

But I'll tell you, those top schools...

that have traditionally, you know, Stuyvesant and

Bronx Science, those kids who test out high, and you know who went to Bronx Science?

It's AOC's father and built their life that way.

Yeah.

Went to where?

The Bronx High School of Science.

Oh.

It's one of those test-in schools.

So she wasn't horribly disadvantaged?

Well, I'm not saying that.

I'm just saying that those schools have traditionally taken top test takers, which is a controversial thing to say, but those kids tend to really push forward and do very well.

So it's tough.

Look,

I think we have a big,

problem, which is China, which is educating and graduating as many engineers every year as we graduate all college students.

And so we're facing an economic educational superpower and don't know what to do with all these kids in our country.

We can't afford to keep wasting genius.

The merit-based system seemed to leave out a lot of people.

Some of this lottery stuff doesn't work out as well as people want it to.

So we've got a big problem.

And so if somebody wants to try something different, what's going to happen is it's going to turn into a big kind of woke war about stuff that at the end of the day, the kids who most need the most help are still not getting it.

So, you know, I'm not going to pass judgment on this particular proposal, but I just think that the one thing we should be coming together on is the fact that we want our kids to be able to compete in a brutal global economy with China, and we are way off track right now.

Wow, but we're kicking China's

ass with kids who have degrees in the dramatic and visual arts.

So I just want to say

they may have all the engineers, but it's not like we

and communication skills.

Off the chart.

Okay, so this is for you.

Should the U.S.

continue working with Iran on a nuclear deal?

Not at all.

No.

No.

Not even that.

Look, because at the same time when President Biden, Jake Sullivan, who I just met,

saying that our thoughts and prayers are with the people of Iran.

But at the same time, when they continue negotiating with these murderers, it means that they're giving billions of dollars to those who they condemn.

I don't get this contradiction because

it's about nuclear.

Because we don't want Iran to have a bomb, because there are, obviously, you have to make difficult choices sometimes, especially in negotiations.

No, this is the easiest choice.

Because, look, when you keep continuing with the murderers instead of actually putting pressure on them, that's not going to work.

The Islamic Republic only understands one language: language of pressure.

Why?

Because they're killing now Iranians in the streets.

They're taking hostages.

Look, right now, British citizen, Swedish citizen, German citizen, U.S.

citizens are in prison, Iran, using them like a bargaining chip to get a deal.

Imagine a day that the U.S.

government asked its own allies, just downgrade your relation until the day when you release all the political prisoners, then we're going to negotiate with the people.

Okay, well I want to imagine a day when then that isn't the regime in Iran.

And one way to get that to happen where that isn't the regime in Iran is to work with them.

Because right now,

as long as we keep these sanctions on, we're the bad guy.

That's one way that regime stays in power because they can blame their problems on the big bad Satan in the West who's forcing them into these horrible restrictions economically.

Can I tell you something?

They always blame you.

But whatever you do, they always blame you.

But let me be clear.

While the U.S.

were sanctioning the Iran, like the Islamic Republic, at the same time,

when we were suffering from sanction, the money went to Bashar Assad.

The money went to Hassan Nasrullah Hezbollah.

At the same time, 51 religious institutions, their budget got increased.

Do you know what is their job?

To kill Mahsa, to promote Sharia laws.

I remember that Javad Zarif and its own lobbyist going to different media, CNN, New York Times, saying that, oh my God, the blame is killing people because we don't have medicine.

But Javad Zarif came on TV and said, proudly, we built a hospital in Venezuela.

So they send the money to everywhere.

The money doesn't go to the people of Iran.

That is why I'm trying to say that, of course, we are suffering from sanction, but the blame should go on the people who are actually fueling the war in the region the children of the hostage takers are here in america can you believe that ma suma tekar spokesperson of those students who uh took american diplomats hostage now her son lives in america and she is welcomed on cnn like analyzing the news of iran come on guys she's the hostage taker okay agreed or disagree

all right As Putin annexes four regions of Ukraine, protests are erupting within Russia and thousands of men are fleeing to evade conscription.

Do you think these are sizable setbacks for Putin?

Well, yeah.

I mean,

yes.

Yeah.

I mean, those are our viewers, but

through that.

Well, maybe they just want to get us to have a discussion about what's going on in Russia, and

maybe another question on this would be, where does this wind up in six months?

I mean, it seems like Putin is already backtracking on conscription because it was, to say the least, unpopular.

But

he couldn't get the people to sign up to begin with.

I mean, for the beginning of the war, people in Russia were already evading the draft.

I think it's really extraordinary what Ukraine has been able to accomplish.

Russia has not done a mass conscription since World War II.

Russia didn't do conscription for Afghanistan.

As much as they got their butts kicked in Afghanistan, they didn't do it then.

So it gives you a sense of the resolve of the Ukrainian people, the effectiveness of NATO and other allies, and the fact that Putin has really stepped on a rake.

He does not know what to do.

And so now he's having bizarre, you saw the press conference today, bizarre sort of

birthday party for his newly conscripted,

newly aggrabbed territory.

Look, my view about it is that we're in very dangerous territory now because

this is unprecedented unprecedented for a nuclear power to be attacking a country and losing the way that Putin is losing and losing faith the way he's losing faith.

And I don't see the off-ramp yet.

So right now I think we're happy, but

worse days are to come.

I agree.

Should federal dollars be spent rebuilding areas affected by hurricanes, especially as climate change worsens the effects of these natural disasters?

Well, I mean, we first got to know you because you were the climate czar.

Look, I think we're going to, look, first of all, look at the insurance industry taking a big step back now, not wanting to do flood insurance anywhere in the world.

That's a leading...

I can't get fire out here.

Yeah.

Yeah, no.

They will not insure you.

It's just too risky.

There's just, I mean, talk about effects of climate change.

If you don't think it's real, that never happened before.

They want to insure you at any price.

And

it's flooding in Florida.

It's the same thing.

And so I think that when the private sector says, hey, this is not a good idea and we're not going to back it, I don't think the public sector should then throw bad money after good.

I mean, that's a tough thing to say.

But the reality is we keep rebuilding and we keep getting washed out.

We keep rebuilding.

We keep getting washed out.

Those dollars could be put to work in other ways.

We are going to have to, because we didn't do the right thing.

15 years ago when you and I met on climate policy, we're going to have to wind up retreating from some of these coastal areas.

That's just the reality.

And it's not just the United States, it's around the world.

We need to get ready for that.

Right.

Glad I never moved to Malibu.

Thank you very much, everybody.

You were great.

Thank you.

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