Ep. #599: Chloe Maxmin, Paul Begala, Michele Tafoya

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Moss.

Start the clock.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Good hug, everybody.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Shut your ass down.

We got a big show.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate that.

This crowd, it's, oh, I could tell.

I could, it's Cinco DeMayo hangover, right?

I mean, yesterday was Cinco de Mayo.

I don't know for the rest of the country.

Out here, it's big shit, right?

Cinco de Mayo?

It is not.

Oh, I mean, if you don't do a promotion for,

whatever business is in, for Cinco de Mayo, my anal bleaching place.

They said

all weekend for free, they'll put salt on your rim.

That's

what?

Cinco de Mayo.

No, you gotta watch out.

Tequila?

Whoa, that tequila's tough.

Elon Musk passed out, and when he woke up, he had bought Radio Shack.

Gotta watch out for Cinco de Mayo.

Oh, yeah.

And women, I gotta tell you, if you can't remember what you did last night, you might want to get the abortion now.

I'm just saying.

Well, I mean, that's the big news, right?

The big news, right?

Okay, they're going to get rid of Roe versus Wade after 49 years.

And as soon as this was leaked, protesters immediately gathered outside the Supreme Court.

Memo to my Democratic friends, more effective when you're on the inside.

So

yeah, now it's just going to be a race with the Waffle House dates.

to just get more and more restrictive about abortion.

Oklahoma already has one on the books, six weeks.

Can't get an abortion after six weeks.

Most women don't even know they're pregnant at six weeks.

They don't even know if they like the guy.

Six weeks.

That's a quick hook.

Oh,

Louisiana wants to pass a law that says flat out, if you get an abortion, you get charged with murder.

Wow.

Suddenly getting the right pronoun doesn't seem so big, does it?

But

on the bright side, it's not really that big of a bright side.

But

in Louisiana, okay, if the fetus is absolutely a human being and you're driving alone to another state to get an abortion, you can use the carpool lane.

So I'm just

saying,

not a big.

America is getting chippy out there, right?

Another attack on comedy.

You saw Dave Chappelle get attacked on stage again.

War on comedians keeps going on.

And I love this.

This is so America.

The guy had a real knife inside of a fake gun.

You want to sneak a knife in somewhere, hide it in a gun.

And

our new friend Madison Carthorne is back in the news.

I don't know if you're familiar with this guy.

He's kind of new on the scene.

He's very young, under 30, I think one of the youngest Republican or any congressmen.

And Christian conservative, keeps getting caught

doing things that don't seem exactly Christian conservative.

The late

we talked about it last week.

This week there's a new video out of him naked

straddling another man's face and thrusting his pelvis into it.

The pornhub title was Republican fuck face, fucks face.

And

he said,

Madison already commented on this.

I'm not joking.

He said he was just trying to be funny.

This is always...

Two weeks ago, he was caught in, there's a picture of him in women's lingerie, women's underwear, trying to be funny.

He said it was a joke.

Then last week, we had the video where he was in the car

and he's saying, I want to feel the passion, and another guy is grabbing his dick.

Joke.

He said, it was just a joke.

Now we have him skull fucking a guy on tape.

And again, I'm joking.

I mean,

it's infinite ways you can create a joke.

His is always, what if I was gay?

That's, I tell you,

I've got to say,

comedically, this guy really commits to the bit.

You know what I'm saying?

He commits.

But no,

I'm not saying he is gay at all.

I'm just saying in Florida, they're not allowed to discuss him in school now.

Oh.

Speaking of that stuff, did you see this?

Five Republican senators now are trying to pass a bill that will have the

FCC or I don't know, whoever it is that puts warnings, you know, ahead of TV shows,

watch this shit you're about to see, because it's got some shit in it that you should know about.

Okay.

These five Republican senators want to put warning labels now on TV shows when there are LGBTQ characters in it.

What's that going to be like?

This show contains violence, adult content, and catty comments about Judy Garland.

Viewer discretion is advised.

And

before I go, I should run.

It is Mother's Day Sunday, so let's all

hear it from moms.

Oh, I saw, I was in CVS yesterday doing some shoplifting.

I saw some

I saw a beautiful Mother's Day, a Republican Mother's Day card.

It said, thank you for bringing me to term, whether you wanted to or not.

Anyway, got a great show.

We got Paul Bagala and Michelle Tafoya.

First up, she is the Democratic State Senator from Maine's 13th District and co-author of Dirt Road Revival, How to Rebuild Rural Politics and Why Our Future Depends on Her, Chloe Maxman.

Hey, how are you?

Shake both get past these days.

All right, we'll do both.

Well,

what's the shake?

You might as well not bump.

Yeah, why not?

Right, no, I'm all for everything.

Okay, so you are the youngest state senator, female state senator.

Is that right from the state of Maine?

That is true.

Wow.

Okay.

And

but last time, I mean, you were here when you were just in college, right?

I was.

I know.

It was almost a decade ago.

Oh, we saw you grow up on this show.

Yeah.

But you went back to home.

You're like, welcome back, Cotter, except not Brooklyn, Maine.

Why did you make that choice?

Yeah, the day I graduated from college, I moved right back to my hometown, a small town in Maine of 1,600 people.

I just, I love my home so much.

I always wanted to go home and build my life there and do politics there.

But you're not going to do politics anymore now, aren't you?

Out of it?

Didn't you say you're not going to keep going on the electoral ladder?

Yes, I've served four years in the Maine legislature.

I was first elected in 2018.

I served a term in the House and a term in the Senate.

But, you know, I think there's so much power in getting lots of young people elected all across rural America instead of just me.

And so we wrote the book and we're gonna do that.

But don't they need you?

Don't they need you, coach?

In the game?

I am still in the game.

Just doing it in a different way, you know, just making sure that candidates and campaigns have all the tools that they need to get young folks elected.

I don't blame you for not wanting to do it either.

Yeah.

I don't, but you know, just say that.

It's a shitty job who wants to do it.

Okay.

So let's talk about the book.

It's called What Democrats Don't Know About Rural Voters.

I guess that's the subtext of the subtitle.

What's the title?

The title is Dirt Road Revival, How to Rebuild Rural Politics and Why Our Future Depends on It.

Oh.

What did I say?

Something different.

Okay.

Well, anyway, but that's really what it is, right?

I mean, you're, and I think this is a great message that the Democrats need to hear because they are, I mean, it's just ridiculous how unpopular they are in places like, and Maine, I mean, I mean, come on, Maine is very,

I mean, I think the black population of Maine consists of a bear.

Maine is a white state.

It's not a diverse state, right?

It's a very white state.

So what's the message to Democrats from your book?

Yeah, you know, I grew up in a House district and a Senate district in Maine that voted for Trump.

And we just went out and started talking to folks and listening to people who did vote to vote for Trump and just try and have more of an honest conversation about what was happening.

And we won in both of those seats.

There were Trump signs next to Chloe signs.

And we discovered all of this common ground with folks who we usually write off.

And it was, you know.

It was so sad to see my community left behind by the Democratic Party, but also so hopeful at all of this space that we can build relationships for durable political power.

So you can win them over.

You can win Trump voters that you thought you won actual Trump voters over?

Yes, we can.

Wow.

Yeah.

Just through

conversations.

And when we talk about rural, I mean, it's interesting what we think of as rural.

Maybe I don't even know what rural is.

I mean, I think of it as people playing in a jug band.

Yeah.

There are some stereotypes.

But it's more than that.

You know, I mean, it's like, where does the suburbs end?

It's not the city, okay, it's not the city.

But it's like what is suburb?

Like I grew up in the suburbs, but when I think about my youth, it was pretty kind of rural.

There was woods behind my house.

I played in dirt a lot.

Dirt was a big part of my childhood.

Was I rural?

Was that rural?

Maybe you were rural.

I may be rural.

Why is that a...

But so it's a lot more, but I'm just saying, it's a lot more of America than what we we think, right?

Yeah.

It's not just Appalachia.

I mean, rural is a big part of the country.

Fly over it.

Yeah, it's a

big part of our country, you know, and

it's a part of our country that has a lot of political influence and a lot of untold and unheard stories.

And, you know, just growing up in that community and being able to represent it and hearing those stories as a Democrat.

You know, sometimes I'll show up to a house and people will

slam the door in my face because they know I'm a Democrat.

It's a bad word.

in a lot of places.

Well, when you show up at a house.

We're the red.

I know I'm wearing red today, which is a bit ironic.

But when you show up at a house, the first question is, are you a Democrat or a Republican?

That's interesting.

And I'm

almost always.

I'm an honest politician.

That says a lot.

I say I'm a Democrat.

Where we are in America.

It's so polarizing.

And one of the things that I love about rural communities and how I was raised is it's really all about values.

You know, are you a good person?

Okay.

Now

that in your book, I think, is the most important thing, is that Democrats are, look, I've said this in a nice way.

They're policy wonks

at their best.

Yeah.

Republicans, come on, they've not taken government.

They don't take it that seriously.

Reagan, Bush, you know, sits on a one-page paper.

I read that.

That's how much I know or care.

You think about Hillary Clinton and Obama.

I mean, these people, Bill Clinton, I mean, they're wonks.

They get it because government is complicated.

And the more you know, the better you do.

That's at their best.

But they don't understand this very big difference that you're getting at.

Policy.

You talk policy.

That's not what matters to a lot of the people in this country.

It is values.

Exactly.

Values like self-reliance

and common sense, which the Republicans seem to lack.

Fragileity.

Religious.

You know, I mean.

Yeah, I mean, in my two campaigns, I've knocked about 20,000 doors.

I've had a lot of conversations with Republicans and Independents, and I have never heard a Republican say that they want expensive health care.

So

it's all about how we talk about the issues, because we can find that common ground if we take the time to do it.

And of course, what we, you know,

the elephant in the room, I think with all of this stuff, but we're talking about values, Republican versus Democrat, slamming the door in your face.

Yeah.

Race.

Are the people, the white people

who are in this very white state, are they racist?

Because their view, I think, is that just because we're white, we're seen as racist now, at least by the Democratic Party.

You saw them up close and personal.

Are they racist?

Well, that's a complicated question.

I mean, some people everywhere are.

But in general, the average person, even if they voted for Trump, would you say they were racist?

I mean, I think we live in a society that has a lot of racist threads in it.

You know, just the way that our country is built is built on racism.

And so it's hard to...

All that is intertwined with everything that we're doing.

And a large...

Now in 2022,

these people themselves...

They weren't around when the country was built racially.

Yes, we understand that.

And yes, of course, there is still lots of racism in the society.

Are they?

Are they racist?

Correct.

That's what I'm asking.

Yeah.

Well.

I'm getting applause just for the question.

It's going to be a great answer.

I think that there are a lot of narratives that have created racism in rural America, but I don't think that rural Americans are racist.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure some are, but I think

I think just, I think a lot of people just look when you're a politician you're kind of like a lawyer You know, you're representing people.

I think a lot of these kind of people again You know these people better than me

because I got of the rural area long ago

Rural New Jersey

But I think their their view is sort of like that the Democratic Party, they should be my lawyer the way your lawyer represents you.

But they're not.

They're not really advocating for me.

And that's okay.

I don't hate them for it.

But don't expect me to be voting for you because you're not my lawyer.

Yeah.

And this other party who I have problems with too, but at least they're representing me.

That's my lawyer.

And we only get two choices in America.

You got to pick one.

Yeah.

So how do the Democrats fix that?

I mean, what I think in a big part of the book that I co-wrote with my campaign manager, Kenyon Woodward, He's in the audience today.

Our message is that there's a lot of hope and potential in how we campaign.

Because every day we were talking to folks who had never been contacted by a Democrat or Democratic campaign in their entire voting history, but yet there were conversations there.

And so if we start campaigning, if we start having conversations, and we don't just do that in an election year, but we do that every month of every year and really invest in rural America that maybe we can find that common ground.

So what do you say to the

What do you say to the person who like you knock on the door

and they say oh wow you look like a Democrat.

And they start to slam the door.

Yeah.

You said this happened, right?

And you're like, wait a second, I just want to talk.

And they're like, okay, I'll let you talk.

Yeah.

Here, have some of the moonshine.

And you ask them what their issues are and they say, well, I hear a lot about white privilege.

Have you looked around my trailer?

Does it look like I'm privileged?

What do you say to that person?

Because that's the voter you have to get in the Democratic Party.

Well, I think that's part of it, right?

Is that in rural America, folks are feeling like there is a lot of unseen struggle and pain in the reality that folks are living.

And that's a real struggle and that's a real reality.

It also means that people of color in our country are also struggling.

Those realities can exist at the same time.

And I think there are these narratives that are pitting us against each other, that are creating these decisions about how our money is invested and who gets what resources.

But what I try and do and what our message is is that we live in a very wealthy country and there is enough resources to go around.

And we can only find that common ground.

We can only create that space for unity if you are face to face someone, face-to-face with someone, having an honest conversation.

Like we do.

Thank you very much.

Chloe.

All right.

Good luck out there.

We'll see you when you're the youngest something else on showing.

All right, let's greet our panel.

Okay.

Hello.

Hello.

All right, here they are.

He is a Democratic strategist and CNN Pokemon.

One of our favorite guests, Paul Bagala is over here.

And she is a

former NBC reporter, sports reporter, who will host the new podcast, Sideline Sanity, launching on all podcast platforms Monday, May 23rd.

Michelle Tafoya.

Bagala and Tafoya.

All right, so people hate talking about abortion.

So let's do it.

I don't want to do it, but it's the big issue, and we got to do it, and this is what happened.

And, you know, it's interesting because until this memo was leaked and we found out that now, unless something very unforeseen happens, the Supreme Court is going to undo Roe versus Wade after 49 years.

We haven't really been focusing on it, or maybe I'm projecting.

I guess I haven't been enough because I learned things this week, because this put it on the front page.

that are pretty basic things that I did not know about abortion.

Like in Europe,

the modern countries of Europe, way more restrictive than we are, or what they're even proposing.

If you are pro-choice,

you would like it a lot less in Germany and Italy and France and Spain and Switzerland.

Did you know that?

I didn't know that.

I didn't know that.

That's right.

Okay.

I learned most people who are pro-life are women.

Did not know that?

Most abortions are from, defending from Mother's Day, mothers, people people who have a kid.

That makes sense.

Well, I mean, it does, does.

I'm sorry, but.

And I thought, this is interesting.

Most abortions now, even when you go to a clinic, are done with the pill.

Yeah.

The pill.

And pills are easy to get in America.

We know that.

So,

you know, for the people who say we're going back to 1973, we're not.

That's just factually inaccurate.

And with how easy it is to get a pill, I'm wondering if this is, what do you think?

Is this going to be the galvanizing issue that the left think it's going to be?

You want to start?

Well, first, there are already Republicans talking about outlawing the pill as well.

And many of these states will.

And even whether they specifically outlaw the pill, it will still be a crime.

We're not going back to 1973.

We're going back to 1931 and before.

Well, a lot of states, my state of Texas where I grew up, they have a law that was, it was not back to the 30s, but Michigan has a law that goes back to the 30s.

Texas has one.

Automatically, 30 days after Roe versus Wade is repealed, which will happen, it'll come out in June, 30 days.

An abortion in Texas is a felony.

No exception for rape, no exception for incest, life in prison for the dock.

That's Texas.

In Texas.

Well, that's 30 million people.

Michigan has the same law.

No exception for rape, no exception for incest.

And we know that most Americans, including conservatives, do not believe that.

They're not on that page.

Most Americans.

They voted it in in Texas not that long ago, and it's because they're not pro-life, Bill.

They're pro-life in prison.

They want to punish.

They want to control.

And they're going to be able to now.

Well, okay.

Go ahead.

I disagree.

I don't think they want to punish and control.

Look, I am pro-choice.

But here we have a continuum, right?

Somebody gets pregnant and then there's birth.

And that whole timeline in between, there should be a portion of that time, as there has been, when an abortion is legal, whether it's medical, the pill, or surgical.

There's got to be a point at which we say, this is a human being capable of living outside the womb, where maybe

we don't do that.

I think that's what you see a lot of in Europe, and a lot of people are kind of settling around, okay, 15 weeks maybe.

Now, I have a good friend, lifelong liberal, who happens to be attached to a children's hospital in St.

Louis, Missouri.

And he has seen preemies in incubators five months along.

They are born, they're there, struggling to survive, that are now 20-year-olds walking the planet.

And he feels very, this is a lifelong liberal, and he feels very strongly about this, that once that baby is viable, why would you extinguish that life?

Now, not everyone's going to agree on this.

It's going to require some tough work.

There are lots of questions.

You just outlined what Roe v.

Wade holds and what the the Supreme Court is about to overturn.

But

that won't ban abortions.

I realize there are snapback rules in the state of the world.

States will.

States have.

Louisiana passed, you mentioned this in your monologue.

A state assembly committee in Louisiana passed a bill yesterday, 7 to 2.

It's not a final law yet, that says life begins at fertilization, which means the IUD is murder.

This is what they're voting on in these Republican states.

If they had your kind of sensible centrist position, I don't think people should be as upset.

But they don't.

The second largest state is going to make it a felony with life in prison.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It is crazy.

Yeah.

And again, just the perspective, most Americans think that's crazy.

I would agree.

I think probably even in Texas.

Yes, they got it passed.

Well, I mean, we'll see if something goes in.

We'll see.

In November, the Texas legislature is on the ballot.

The Michigan legislature, if you all don't want felony life in prison laws, you can vote them them out.

Right, absolutely.

Well, another thing I learned this week that

I think I maybe knew this, but I forgot it, is that this didn't used to be a partisan issue.

At the time, Roe versus Wade, but passed, but not a partisan issue.

It became a partisan issue because of the Christian right.

They made it a partisan issue.

They made it so that it became where the Democrats were for abortion being safe and legal, and Republicans were also when their mistresses got pregnant, of course.

But in general,

I would say that time,

in general, it was not even partnership.

There are a lot of things also that have changed since Roe v.

Wade passed, and I think a lot of people are bringing this up, that now we have sonograms where you can see what this child actually looks like along the way, whereas in 1973 or whatever it was, that wasn't the case.

We know about...

Meaning people would be given pause when they see that?

Perhaps.

Perhaps they would, especially at a certain point along the line.

Because it is a gut thing.

I mean, you know, we talk about the Constitution and laws and rights, and it really comes down to do you like women or do you like babies?

You know, for me, I personally, maybe this is an outlier attitude, I never have thought life itself was particularly precious.

Okay.

I don't.

I'm sorry, I don't.

That's...

What?

I really don't.

I mean, no, I'm serious.

I think life is for the living.

Until you're born, you're not living.

Okay.

I mean, yes, it's becoming a life, but you know, it's not.

And,

you know, we wouldn't miss you if you're not born because we never knew you.

You're not going to miss anything because you never were born.

I'm serious.

So that's my position.

I get that that's not most people's position.

But that's...

I mean, that's...

Well, most people's position is not what the Supreme Court is doing, and I think that's what's got people so angry.

If their legislatures have these kind of draconian laws, that's really a problem.

But most people in their real lives, I have a friend, very conservative, very pro-life.

He says, well, I'm pro-life except for the standard three exceptions.

Rape, incest, and if my daughter gets in trouble.

Oh, she's right.

And I'm like, well, you need nobody, no.

No, that's a lot of.

You can catch a lot of Republicans on tape.

Contradict.

Remember Herman Kaine?

Dan Quayle did it?

Where they're actually explaining how they feel about it while they're trying to toe the pro-lifeline and they're describing pro-choice.

Well, yeah.

I think it should be between the family and they should have the, yes, you just described our choice, moron.

Yeah.

And I agree with that.

And I do think, look,

Ruth Vader Ginsburg, who was a huge supporter of abortion rights, felt that this law was created the wrong way.

And that rather than being attached to the privacy clause of the 14th Amendment, it should have been attached to the equality, equal treatment under the law.

So that, you know, women should have the choice whether or not to have a family, just as a man would have a choice whether or not to have a family.

And I agree with her.

And I do think there is some middle ground, though.

I don't, there was that Kermit whoever in Philadelphia who got thrown in prison because he was aborting babies at nine months, eight and a half months, breaking their necks and okay.

Well, some of that is because it's not a viable bread.

A lot of abortion.

Pregnancy went wrong.

Yes, I agreed.

And that should not even be on the table.

No, exactly.

Okay, so.

But that wasn't what he was doing.

So it was more abortion on demand.

Someone decided late in the thing.

Anyway, there are exceptions all over the place.

This isn't a cut-and-dried cookie cutter.

No one has the same situation, right?

I mean, I think, so look, the abortion pill, if they outlaw that, they're going to, in states, they are going to pay at the ballot box.

There is no question.

It is going to be outlawed.

But it only begins with abortion.

I read the draft opinion from Justice Alito.

I actually have a law degree.

The same rationale applies to marriage, Loving versus Virginia.

It's the same privacy right that says I can marry anybody I want, whether they're black or a man,

whether I can have contraception, whether I can even have sex.

None of those words are in the Constitution.

No, no, no, but let's be specific and remember that there's a third party, an unborn child, involved in this.

And he specifically goes out of his way in this draft to say, this is very specific to this.

I know a lot of people.

Just like when he was up for a hearing in confirmation, he said, oh, Roe has settled law until he unsettled it.

It's the same philosophy.

It has to actually apply to a work of.

I know that lovingly opposed.

But I think he's on his consciousness.

It's not really about the laws or the Constitution.

You know, whenever I see a lawyer, whether it's on TV or in an ed, anywhere, they're always in a room with an entire wall of law books behind them.

Right?

An entire wall.

You mean whatever?

It's what you fucking think, what you feel, and then you'll find something in that wall of books to back it up.

You know, this whole bullshit argument about, well, it's settled law, so was segregation.

Right, right.

Plessy versus Ferguson was settled law in 1896, and thank God somebody said, let's unsettle it.

So it's not, that's a bullshit argument.

It's what you think.

If If

you like babies, then you're pro-life.

And if you like women, you're pro-choice.

I like women.

But are you saying

you're sort of, I think voicing what I've heard a lot this week, people have a sort of a worry about what I would call a domino theory?

of social rights.

You think first it's abortion, and then it's gay rights, and then trans rights, and then weed goes, and then

gay marriage, interracial marriage.

Is that what you're working on?

Don't stir up fear now here, be honest.

Wait.

The right to privacy is what abortion is founded on in the Constitution, right?

And so, if there's a right to privacy over a woman's choice whether to continue her pregnancy, that's the same,

the whole same set of cases, the same legal philosophy that said

Mr.

and Mrs.

Loving had a right to get married even though one was white and one was black.

Or O'Burgefell got to get married even though his husband was a a guy.

Or gay people can have sex.

Or married people can use contraception.

That was a, you know, in the 1960s, that was a big case.

Connecticut had outlawed contraception, even for married couples.

But Clarence Thomas is, that's an interracial marriage.

Do you think Clarence Thomas?

I guess what I'm saying is I really feel like abortion is unique.

It is.

It is, because people either, you know, you just have this view that it's murder.

I could put the argument on a hat when people talk about a woman's right.

Murder isn't a right.

If you think it's murder, I don't.

Again, crazy me.

But.

Telling you, we're not going to miss you.

You were never here, and you're not going to miss anything.

You wouldn't miss us if we were gone.

And I would, because you're already here.

You're living.

You're living.

That's different.

Here's an interesting thing, okay?

And you mentioned that the majority of or a lot of women who have abortions are already moms and they can't afford another child.

Or they just don't.

Or they just said, to hell with this.

Exactly.

No, listen, in all seriousness, I had many, many problems conceiving.

I won't go into details, although if you'd like, I'm sure.

Okay.

So.

Fortunately, we were lucky enough to have our son,

pure luck, okay?

So then we said, let's adopt a little girl, Bogota, Columbia, South America, where the law there is 24 weeks you have that time to abort.

This, God bless this woman who didn't.

I would not tell her what choice to make.

That was her choice to make, and I'm all about it, okay?

That was her choice to make.

But I can't imagine my life without my daughter.

but you could if you never had her

again you wouldn't miss her because you didn't know she existed.

All right

Let me interrupt here

for one moment

It is one of our favorite refillables comes up at this time of year because it's graduation time anyone here graduating college probably oh a couple

congratulations

But I mean it.

It's a big achievement or not.

Anyway,

so we've noticed over the years they write things on their hats and very often they're very basic things like, yeah, thanks mom and dad.

They write on their graduation gap, hire me.

And they've gotten a little more interesting on to the next adventure I've seen and oh the future is female.

So

we took our real-time photographer out to some graduation ceremonies and we would you like to see some of the other signs that are on the caps?

I'm sure you would.

For example, thanks, Mom, another mom.

Goodbye, term papers.

Hello, OnlyFans.

Just by luck, I majored in critical race theory.

If you can read this, you're not me.

Harvard Caucasians against white privilege.

I stand with

Zelin Zalu, that guy in Ukraine.

Amber Heard, you can shit on my bed anytime.

Well, that

has nothing to do with graduation.

That's kids.

If only masks protected you from gonorrhea.

Well, that's...

Guess I picked the wrong time to need an abortion.

Well, that's a terrible thing to put on a hat.

And of course, your Uber driver has arrived.

So President Biden is under enormous pressure, speaking of college kids, to come up with a plan now to relieve college debt.

And I'm wondering, especially what you think about this, because you are a strategist and have been one of the most successful ones for the Democratic Party.

A lot of people are saying this is a loser issue.

I'll give you some brief numbers here, why that is.

13%

of Americans have college debt, federal college debt.

So that's not a lot of people you're working to.

65%

don't go to college at all.

50%

of the college debt goes to people going to grad school, which, come on, a lot of that is just bullshitting around.

You don't know what to do and you can keep going to school for free.

So it just looks like a loser issue for the party that is trying to win back the working class, that we're going to subsidize.

We who didn't go to college and didn't benefit from that are going to subsidize you

to get your degree in gender studies

and sports marketing and all the other bullshit that they take into account.

I think it's a loser issue for a bid.

What do you think?

Yeah, well, and this is revealing a big secret, so don't tell anybody.

We Democrats have a lab, two labs, actually, secret labs, one in Berkeley and one in Brooklyn, where we come up with ideas to completely piss off the working class, and it's working wonderfully.

We and look,

yes, oh yes, they have, they have, and they all have PhDs in pissing off the working class.

Somehow, in my lifetime, the Democrats have gone from being the party of the factory floor to being the party of faculty lounge.

I went last week, I spent Wednesday last week in Chicago with the Machinists Union, hung out with the machinists all day, great guys.

Not one of them came up to me and said, gee, I really hope you take my tax dollars to pay off the debt of somebody who went to Stanford.

Right.

Okay?

But I have, so Biden's under enormous pressure.

He's not for it.

He didn't campaign for it.

He says he'll relieve maybe $10,000, which I suppose is good.

But what I'd much rather see Democrats do is go back to their roots, which is earn it.

We're the party that created the GI Bill.

Nobody called that free college because it wasn't.

The guys that got the GI Bill earned it.

Why don't we have a system where we say, you want to get out of your college debt?

Serve your country.

Marine Corps, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps.

Not everybody can carry a rifle, but you can mentor a kid.

And you just give two years of service, then you will have earned that and expand it so we have community college, job training.

We need more mechanics, not MBAs.

Yes.

And that's where the Democrats focus ought to be.

Well.

That to me seems to be the underlying issue.

I've said it on this show before.

Democrats have this idea that you're a better person if you sit in class more and more and get more and more degrees.

And really the answer

is not to make college cheaper it's to make it more unnecessary because most of it is bullshit anyway

and it's not necessary

no that's absolutely the case you know and I'm with you for more vocational schools more avenues for kids for people to find ways to make a living and you know look here's how it worked for me I was going to go to college.

I knew what it was going to cost.

My parents knew what it was going to cost.

They put the money aside.

Then I went to grad school and I knew what it was going to cost.

And when I signed on that loan,

that was, oh, sorry, microphone, that was me saying,

I will pay for this.

This is mine to pay off because that's accountability and that's taking responsibility for your own life.

So can I

ask you, what did you learn in grad school that helped you with your career as a sideline reporter?

There's a story there.

I would love to know what that had to do with Terrell Owen's bad anger.

Not a damn thing.

Not a thing.

It was my backup plan.

All right.

It was my backup plan, because it's not every day that you get a job in network sports, and I knew that, so I just had a backup plan.

And did anything you took in college point you to that?

In college?

Well, anything in college, was it relevant to what you did?

I mean, I took some communications courses, but no, what I did that was relevant to.

Total bullshit.

Communications.

communications

I'm so happy to be called out on national television about my bullshit classes it's not just you it's everybody no it's true and it's gotten worse and I think a lot of people the people you're talking about and the people we were talking about at the top the rural people in America they're resentful that you know you are first of all I'm gonna pay now to have my kid,

not my kid doesn't go, I'm gonna pay for some kid to go to an indoctrination center.

Yeah, yeah.

Where they're indoctrinating kids into things I don't even believe in.

Where the courses are all in, you know, racist spotting 101 and

why privilege 105.

And you know what?

And the thing about it too is college is way too damn expensive.

And it got too damn expensive

when all of these laws started being given out.

Well, it got

expensive when states stopped subsidizing.

I went to the University of Texas.

I love it.

My whole career, I owed the University of Texas at Austin, and my law degree, less so, but it helped.

I can read a Supreme Court opinion and know that Justice Alito is going after the gays next.

Okay?

So it's enormously helpful.

Wow.

It's been enormously helpful.

I'm serious.

The law degree, but also my undergraduate degree.

So I'm totally for college.

I am pro-college.

But

not at everybody else's expense.

And what we ought to do, you know, schools used to be subsidized by the state much more.

I'm an old guy, but UT Austin cost me $4 a credit.

I attended bar and easily paid my way through college.

It wasn't even hard.

I didn't have to go and get a bunch of student debt.

So we ought to make college more affordable, but we ought to throw open the opportunities.

Biden campaigned on free community college.

And that's what the Congress ought to pass.

But I'll come back to the service though.

The other thing we would do, if we had service in exchange for educational benefits, not only would we have smarter people, and I am for knowledge for knowledge's sake, I really am.

I'm for more art history majors, all for it, but throw them together in a service project with kids who grew up on a farm or kids who who are in a city or kids who are a different race and you will reunite this country.

We can stitch ourselves back together again.

It's the most important thing we can do.

I'm interested to know how your degree helped you know that Alita was going to go after the gays next.

Now he may, but I thought one part of this abortion debate we're having now I thought was interesting was we used to hear the line, if men could get pregnant, this wouldn't even be a debate.

Well now that men can,

and there's a pregnant man emoji,

how does

this what how does that change?

Where's the uprising of the emoji pregnant men?

I mean where is the uprising?

You know no

no it doesn't.

But listen, art history majors are fine, but you can learn a lot about art history by working in a museum and reading books.

Just reading some books is a good idea.

I agree with you.

I think college has gotten too fluffy

and way too damn expensive.

All right, thank you.

Great panel.

Time for new rules, everybody.

New rules, now that Tropicana is trying to make pouring orange juice on cereal a thing,

milk must not take that lying down.

Introducing the milk mosa

champagne with milk

when you need something to settle your stomach after a night of drinking.

But also want to say, fuck it, let's keep drinking.

New rule, I don't know exactly what happens at the Hindu festival of Lal Kash in Bangladesh or what the purpose is, but I do know who sponsors it.

Flaming Hot Cheetos.

Numeral nothing says, I'm a woman of the people.

Quite like having a black man in a face mask kneeling to adjust your ball gown.

How come every time someone kneels in front of a Clinton, it becomes all about the dress?

I'm just asking.

New Rule, if you augment your buttocks with non-surgical butt vacuum therapy,

don't forget to tip your therapist.

Because you think your job sucks ass, and this job you actually suck ass.

New Roll, someone has to tell Alexa, she's getting too attached.

She's suggesting songs I might like.

She's reminding me to buy dog food.

Alexi, honey, I'm not looking for a serious relationship.

The other day, I asked her, what's the capital of Egypt?

And she said, why don't you ask your whore?

And finally, new rule, since this is Mother's Day weekend, let's pause and take a moment to think about how your mother was always there for you, looking after you and keeping you safe.

And then realize that's not Twitter's job.

Keeping you safe and sorting out the lies from the truth is your job.

When we talk about misinformation, we always focus on the producers, never the consumers, as if we're all helpless, dumb blondes ready to believe anything like Donald Trump.

Now,

do lies spread faster than they used to?

Of course, but so can truth, which in the internet age is always at your fingertips.

You just have to learn how to use Google for something other than porn.

But this idea that we can clean up Twitter and protect you from fake news and disinformation, it's so ridiculous.

It's like fact-checking the graffiti on the bathroom wall of a dive bar.

We called this number and we didn't have a good time.

People always lie.

That's what people do.

Every age is the misinformation age.

And whenever a new means of communication comes along, some reach right for the sensor button.

In 1858, the New York Times thought we couldn't handle the transatlantic telegraph.

They said it was superficial and

too fast for the truth.

In 1487, the Pope issued an order to stop the misuse of the printing press for the distribution of pernicious writing.

You know, fake news,

like how the earth is a ball.

In 1938, radio was the hot medium of the day, and lots of people got plenty worked up about it, especially after Orson Welles presented what was obviously a fictitious drama about a Martian invasion of New Jersey, and thousands of people thought it was real and panicked.

You cannot censor away that level of naivete.

The Martians had the whole universe to invade, and they chose New Jersey.

Jersey?

People on social media like to say, I did my research, but it doesn't count if you did your research on social media.

I once did a stand-up special called Be More Cynical.

This is what I was talking about.

Lies are ubiquitous, and in that way, they're quite analogous to germs and viruses.

People think you can germ-proof the world and never have to be in contact with the things that can hurt you, but you can't.

You have to have a strong immune system.

It's the reason babies who live in sterile environments are more likely to develop allergies than babies who are allowed to exist in the world as it is-messy and impure.

Lies are all around you.

Develop a better bullshit detector.

That's a better solution.

That's a better solution than me giving up what I'm allowed to read.

Who decides that?

Who decides what gets the no evidence for that sticker slapped on it?

Most people in this country still have a religion.

They believe they have an imaginary best friend in the sky

who they can talk to to help them with their problems.

Nobody throws up a warning label on that that says there's no evidence for this.

Now,

conservatives do seem to have a special talent for embracing the real eye roll stuff, like Hillary's Pizza Parlor pedophile ring, or Democrats eat babies, lizard people are running the world.

But 41% of Democrats last year believe the hospitalization rate, if you got COVID unvaccinated, was over 50%

when it was actually less than 1%.

Somebody's misinformation got to those people.

Sometimes misinformation is just history's first draft.

I see a lot of things on social media and also on old Fox Media.

And I don't completely believe any of it, not right away, not until I check it out.

And when I ask, is it true?

Usually the answer turns out to be, well, sort of.

Or yes, but yeah.

See, we've all become very adept at saying things that are technically true but lack context or that leave out half the story.

So if we're going to ban untruth, does that include the half-truth, the quarter-truth?

And wait, don't the wokest people in the world believe that what really matters is your truth?

So yes.

Of course we should ban kiddie porn and libel and personal threats and calls for insurrection.

That's a no-brainer because they're already illegal.

Just as it would be illegal in an actual town square to whip out your dick.

And so should it be in the digital town square.

And so should bots and deep fakes be banned and anything else that aren't really the people who say they are.

But that's an entirely different thing than actual people expressing an opinion as repugnant or offensive or as misguided as some opinions may be.

This is still America.

Where people.

Where people have the right to express what they think, including to be wrong, to lie, and yes, the right to be an asshole.

And if you think you know everything and no one else could possibly have some other truth, you should be glad for that protection because you're an asshole.

All right, that's our show.

If you want to hear more of me just bullshitting with people late at night, there's the Club Random Podcast now.

A lot of fun people.

Mike Tyson will be there Monday.

I want to thank my guests, Paul Bagala, Michelle Cafoya, and Chloe Maxman.

I'll be at the Mirage in Vegas May 20th and 21st, and at the Marat in Indianapolis, June 5th.

Now go to YouTube and join us on Overtime.

Thank you, folks.

Thank you, guys.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.