Ep. #584: Kevin O’Leary, Tavis Smiley, Rep. Adam Schiff

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, No, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's gonna tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

AKA Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Moss.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

How are you?

Thank you very much.

Sit down.

Oh boy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Please.

Getting so popular in my old age.

Thank you very much.

That makes me feel very good because, you know, this is our second or last show.

Next week is the finale of our season.

So you're here.

Yeah, I know.

Where does the time go?

I'm already watching all the Christmas movies on the Hallmark Channel.

Is that believable?

Okay.

Now, I got a question for the people over there at the Hallmark Channel.

Exactly, Exactly where is this white rural American town where no one wears a Trump hat?

Christmas miracle.

The miracles are not storming the Capitol.

Oh, we got breaking news today.

We got Adam Schiff, the perfect guy to talk about it.

Steve Madden was indicted.

And, oh yeah, it's all coming to a head.

There's a new interview with Trump.

Did you see this?

Where Trump is asked if he thought it was wrong for the crowd that day on January 6th to be chanting, hang Mike Pence.

And Trump says, it's common sense.

I guess the subtext being, have you met Mike Pence?

I am worried.

I am worried for this country.

There's two racially charged murder trials going on right now, one in Georgia, one in Wisconsin.

If there are acquittals, there could be street-level unrest, adding to a strain in a system that's already being plagued by supply chain issues, leading to the question if a store is completely empty, is it still looting?

I want to know that.

Oh, yeah.

Are you having trouble getting shit you want?

People are pissed about this economy.

I mean, it seems like you have two choices right out there.

Either what you want isn't there, or if it is, you can't afford it.

I mean,

inflation, it's like I'm doing all my shopping at the airport.

Oh, it's drunk.

I noticed the women on OnlyFans

are accepting canned goods.

That seems.

Oh, and it's especially bad here in Los Angeles.

A lot of young people cannot afford their first tent.

Terrible.

But, you know,

help is on the way,

or maybe this will make it worse.

I don't know.

But Biden is going to sign the big $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill on Monday.

Infrastructure,

if you're from Hollywood, you don't know what that means.

We're having work done.

So So

expect to see new signs all around the city that say your tax dollars at work

next to a big mound of dirt that sits there for five years.

That's my experience.

But here's

what's so sad about this country.

I mean, this is infrastructure, the most boring subject in the world.

The 13 out of 213 Republicans who voted for it, they're getting death threats.

Death threats for infrastructure.

And the irony, of course, is that Republicans were always the party of infrastructure.

Lincoln and Grant built the Transcontinental Railroad.

Eisenhower, the interstate highway system.

Matt Gates, transporting girls across state lines.

Death threats.

Anyway, and here's a great Christmas story.

80%,

apparently, now of the deer population has COVID.

I know.

And they say it could mutate and then jump back to humans.

Yes, anything bad could happen.

Do we have to fucking go nuts about this story, too?

Yes, it's scary.

Everything's scary.

Unless you're a deer.

If you're a deer, this is a great story.

This is like, remember that year we thinned their herd?

But

here in LA, you know, now we have a new thing.

Proof of vaccination required for pretty much everywhere.

Restaurants, bars, gyms, movies, malls, stores.

My dispensary

has a big sign.

No shot, no pot.

But, you know,

it's going to be tough.

It's going to be tough on the people who have to administer this.

I mean, we're asking low-wage workers.

now to be the vaccine police.

It's hard enough getting tips.

You know, now you have to be like, welcome to the cheese

factory.

May I take your temperature?

That's not going to go over well.

Cheesecake Factory probably would have helped if I said it right.

But

I say, so it is hard to make the privacy argument in places,

like massage parlors.

You know, it's, I'm here for a hand job, but that's too personal.

You know, that's.

and uh, finally, uh, big news: Paris Hilton got married.

Uh, yeah, was engaged, I think, three or four times.

Before that didn't happen, now she's got married.

The wedding was private.

Uh, the honeymoon will be on pay-per-view.

All right, got a great show.

Tavis Smiley is here, and Representative Adam Schiff are here.

But first up, he is a venture capitalist and star of ABC Shark Tank.

Kevin O'Leary is here.

Wow.

Kevin, how are you, sir?

See you there.

Oh.

And you've got your phone with you?

I always carry the phone.

Even on TV?

It's an extension of my being now.

Well, what are you, a fucking millennial?

It's got a lot of information I need all the time.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, we're here for 10 minutes on TV.

Okay.

Were you turning it off?

Or is it going to ring?

It may be interesting to see.

I know you're a busy guy.

I'm a real foodie now, and I've taken to monitoring my blood glucose, which is all for the next 10 minutes?

I'm just checking it out.

I'm just checking it out.

I'm interested.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

So you're a rich guy.

What?

It's all relative.

It's all relative.

I always like to think there's...

If I had your money, I'd throw mine away.

Let me put it that way.

You know, Bill,

the thing to remember is there's always someone richer.

That's what you should remember.

That's not really the most important fact about

wealth inequality.

Yes, of course.

It may motivate you to just work a little more.

No, I okay.

Okay.

I'll bring my phone on from now on.

Maybe that'll get me richer.

But what I was going to ask you is, you know, you're here because we're having problems in the economy we've not seen in a very long time.

It's the number one issue on people's minds.

And people have this idea, I think, that rich people know way more and are way better at figuring out the economy.

That's how Trump got elected.

I'm a businessman.

I know.

Turns out he was a fraud.

He is not that rich.

He's probably less rich than you.

Do rich people know more about the economy?

No.

Really?

No, they don't.

Interesting.

They have learned something that they're passionate about.

This economy has supported entrepreneurship for 200 years.

It really works.

It's created the world's largest economy.

But no one entrepreneur knows everything about everything.

They know something very special.

Elon Musk knows a lot about electric vehicles.

You think about what Bezos built, direct-to-consumer.

These are specialty verticals.

That's how it works.

Okay, so

I don't understand how some factors of the economy seem to be doing so well.

The stock market, still through the roof.

Unemployment is less than 5%.

They used to say 5% was the goal.

And this is after a pandemic.

So why are we having like this supply chain problem?

If those factors are doing well, why can't we get stuff off the ships?

Trucking,

shelves empty, what is that?

I live that problem every day.

I've got investments in over 30 companies, and we're having major problems with the supply chain because countries that we took products and services from in the past pre-pandemic have not recovered the same way America has right now.

They still don't have everybody vaccinated.

They have all kinds of issues that are keeping their supply and their factories shut down.

So it's really hard to get parts.

And as a result, that's half the reason we have inflation.

Regarding the stock market, you spend, you print $3.5 trillion free dollars, put it in a helicopter and throw it down into the country.

You're darn right that the stock market is going to go up.

So is the watch market, so is the wine market, so is the car markets.

Anything that's a hard asset has exploded to the upside.

Everything, because money is free.

Well, not forever, yes.

Well, I don't know.

I just find it.

I agree trillion.

brilliantly.

Believe me, I have shared that concern.

I don't know how long the government can.

We have never, ever printed this much money back.

I agree.

Trust me, it's on my mind.

But workers definitely do have more leverage than they ever did before.

Correct.

Isn't that a good thing?

I mean, we've heard this word underclass for a long time because it's a real thing in America.

People who just are living day to day.

I was reading about truckers recently because, well, we can't get truckers.

That's one reason why we have these supply chain issues.

And it's just a horrible job.

It's just a horrible life.

You have no life.

You must agree that there is some problem in America where we have this kind of income inequality, where some people are just an underclass.

And

wasn't it a good thing that now they have a little leverage?

It is a good thing, but let me tell you that the economy has done such a remarkable change in the last 24 months that people that used to be considered starving artists, for example.

Let's talk about videographers, photographers, animators that made nothing pre-pandemic are now the most sought-after individuals as the entire economy has gone digital.

Everybody wants to sell direct-to-consumer.

Nike sells 50% of its products now, direct-to-consumer.

It needs photography, it needs animation, it needs graphics.

These people don't want to work anymore in a cubicle.

In fact, they don't want to work at all.

They want to be contractors.

They used to make $30,000, now they make $150,000.

I think the economy is doing really, really well, and a huge transition is occurring.

It's doing what it does.

The market always takes care of itself.

I guess it's doing well for animators.

A lot of people think.

Is that really the typical worker is an animator?

I don't think that's the typical.

I don't know if you're talking about social media.

I know, but

I remember even, you know, when I talk to students, and I teach a little bit now, I'd always say there's three professions you need.

And so if you're going to go to college and get yourself $100,000 in debt, make sure you're an engineer, an engineer, or an engineer.

And at night, take some engineering classes.

Everything else is worthless.

I don't feel that way anymore.

Right now, I can't hire people out of TISH or any college that's an art college to work for me in creating content for social media that helps me sell products and goods and services.

It's a remarkable change.

And I understand that you can't get a lot of people to come back to the office.

That you thought it would be like 15% who wouldn't come back after the pandemic, but it's really something like 55% who say they will never come back?

They're never coming back.

Well, doesn't that tell you something about how much they must have fucking hated the office to begin with?

I'm just asking.

I mean,

I miss my office.

I want to be at the office.

They have proven to everybody all around the world that they can use technology to do their job successfully, creatively, functionally, productively.

They want to stay at home, raise their kids, take care of their elderly parents.

And in fact, if you say to them, you have to come back to the office, that's our new mandate, they'll say, nah, I'm just going to quit and work somewhere else.

So we thought it was 15%.

We have a sample size of about 10,000 people in our supply chain plus our companies.

I thought it would be in accounting, logistics, compliance departments, the people who used to work in cubicles.

It's everybody.

They don't want to come back.

And so we have to learn to live this way.

And I'm okay with it.

It works.

I find it really interesting.

So you're okay with it.

One of the guys that's crucial to our whole operating company, accounting, said to me, I grew up on a farm.

I'm going back to the farm.

I'm going to live on the farm.

I'll work for you, but it's going to be from the farm.

I said, cool.

I'm okay with it.

No problem.

Who wants to live on a farm?

He wants to live on a farm.

Yeah, I bet you that ends in about a year.

I'm begging you to be back to the office.

Okay, so

let me go back to income inequality for a minute, because I feel like we're having a debate among people like you and me who both believe in capitalism.

I am a capitalist.

I am too.

There's no doubt capitalism has lifted more people out of misery and poverty than anything else, and certainly other economic systems.

And many ideas.

Many ideas have been tried, they haven't worked.

Yes, of course.

And we tried the other ones by this point.

Yes, I know.

No, the younger generation are like, it didn't happen if I wasn't alive for it.

Yeah, it kind of did.

Stuff happens.

The world did try communism for about 70 years, and it sucked.

But here, we seem to be having an argument now over how rich is too rich.

Is there an upper strata?

I mean Elon Musk I think passed the 300 billion mark.

I mean to your point about there's always someone richer, yes, but that much richer?

And what do you do about it?

So you think about what that man's accomplished and how he's changed everybody's lives in space and what he's done with electric cars, changing the economy, making it greener.

Should we punish him for that?

No,

I'm a fan.

I'm not bad.

No, no, no, no.

I'm an Elon Musk.

Can he not just pay $5 billion?

I'm not an Elon Musk fan, although I don't believe in going to Mars.

That's stupid.

I get it.

No, it is.

No matter how bad we trash the Earth, it'll still be better than Mars.

Well, there's no air.

My guess is that.

And it's 200 below zero.

How fucking bad would we have to fuck up?

Maybe on the Mars case.

Okay.

Maybe on Mars.

I get the Mars.

But I'm a big Elon Musk fan.

But we're just saying, $300 billion is, I mean, is he, I don't know how many times more that would be than what the average person makes, but he's not that many zillion times smarter.

Okay, but it was a multiplication factor in his money.

He pose this question.

200 plus years ago, in the country of England, they said, how much is too much?

Rich people should give back money.

We should take more money from them.

They got in a boat and they came to America.

And they made this the number one economy on Earth.

Should we reverse it now?

Should we send all the boats back to England?

I think they came also because of religious freedom.

I think taxation.

Yeah.

Boston?

Taxation.

That was after they got here.

Look, we can argue.

The minister.

No, there's no argument.

That was after they got here.

Is this a great economy?

No, no, no, Kevin.

I'm telling you, you're Canadian.

This is American.

I forget it.

This is American industry.

Yes, after they got here, they were being taxed by England.

So?

Taxation without representation.

Yes, so.

We're talking about $300 billion.

We're talking about what should be the upper level.

Listen, I pay a lot of taxes.

My friend, I pay a lot of taxes too.

I don't enjoy it either.

But I've also thought

philosophically, great wealth is a bit of a fluke.

It is a bit of a fluke.

What makes you...

Remember, all of that money, all of that money he has, including the taxes he's paying now, he just paid $5 billion, he sold $5 billion worth of stock to pay tax.

And he's very philanthropic, gives to a lot of causes.

But when he dies, we're taking it all back anyways.

Now, if you'd like to accelerate that, should we arrest him, shoot him, and take all the money now?

No,

you're making me the straw man.

Hey.

I'm not Shake Rivera here.

I'm just asking if there's an upper limit, and I have your answer.

Anyway, I'm out of time.

Fascinating to talk to you.

I hope you come back.

Kevin, let's meet our panel.

Okay.

Okay.

Hey there.

Okay.

Here they are.

He is the mid-morning host of KBLA Talk 1580, the first and only black-owned and operated talk radio station west of the Mississippi.

Tavis Smiley is back with us.

Great to see you back here.

And he is a Democratic congressman from California whose new book is Midnight in Washington: How He Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could.

Representative Adam Schiff to my right.

Okay.

So, as I mentioned in the monologue, we have

breaking news, as they love to say, on cable news.

But it is, as we're taping this, a few hours before it goes on, Friday, November 12th, and the January 6th Committee, which you're on, right?

Yes.

Okay,

you must be thrilled.

This must be like next to the days your kids were born.

My wife is here.

I really can't go there.

But Steve Bannon was indicted, contempt of Congress, for not answering a subpoena.

We've been talking about this on this show for a very long time.

Like, how do they get away with just thumbing their nose?

And finally, this happened.

Steve Bannon, and what is going to happen now?

How much will this change things?

It changes it a lot.

And for me, this was a real early test of whether our democracy was recovering.

It's so important that after four years in which Donald Trump essentially stonewalled all subpoenas and had an attorney general who was willing to run interference and protect those lying to cover up for Donald Trump, that we now have a Justice Department that believes that no one is above the law.

And

people...

Well, certainly answering a subpoena should be a no-brainer, right?

I mean, that's pretty simple.

It should be.

Imagine a court of law

where they issue a subpoena and you're free to ignore it.

It wouldn't be a court.

And a Congress that can't enforce its subpoenas is not really a Congress.

It's a plaything for a potential autocrat.

Can they subpoena Trump?

We could.

We may.

Why not?

Well, who is more central to this thing than him?

I mean, I'm just.

Well, we

haven't made that decision yet.

Why?

Well, because you often interview less significant witnesses before you interview the most significant.

I'm not the chair of the committee, and I'm not going to make that decision, nor do I want to preempt the chairman, but we are determined on a very bipartisan, non-partisan basis that we will follow the evidence wherever it leads, to whomever it leads, whether it leads to colleagues of ours in Congress or to the former president, they must be held accountable.

And this is a mystery where it leads.

I don't.

I'm in such suspense.

Where will this lead?

Who could it be?

No?

There's

Donald Trump?

Wow, what a shocker.

Okay.

But there is, Bill, a lot we don't know about what the president was doing and not doing, about the conversations.

Because he won't give you his records and because he won't answer the subpoena.

Well, and that's why the prosecution of people who don't follow their lawful obligations is so important.

But

if I can add, Bill, Bill.

Please.

It's about time, first of all.

This should have happened a long time ago.

It took too long, frankly, for it to happen.

Yeah.

But I also think we have to call a spade a spade.

It was white privilege that allowed these folks to run inside the Capitol on January the 6th.

It was white privilege that allowed Steve Bannon to thumb his nose at Congress for as long as he has.

It was white privilege that allowed him to do it for this extended period of time.

I'm glad that Merrick Garland finally got around to this, but he should have done this a long time ago.

And I think the longer and the farther away we get from January 6th, and the American people, Congressman, respectfully, don't see something really happening here.

To Bill's point,

we all know where this is going to end up, where it ought to end up.

We can play this charade, play this game, but at the end of the day, people know what happened.

Something needs to be done about it, and the longer you take to do that, you lose the respect, I think, of the American people.

Well, you know, I would

first of all, Travis, I would say that I agree with you on the need for expedition here.

And we've been moving as fast as a congressional committee possibly could.

We've interviewed now over 150 people.

We were just established a few months ago.

But to your point about the importance of the Justice Department doing swift justice, one of my primary concerns, look, I'm glad that we're prosecuting Steve Bannon, but one of my primary concerns is I don't see the Justice Department moving to investigate the former president for, for example, his role in trying to get the Secretary of State in Georgia to defraud the people of Georgia and to defraud the country.

I think if anyone,

if anybody in your audience were on the phone, tape recorded, trying to get a Secretary of State to find 11,780 votes that don't exist, they would be under investigation or indictment.

Is it still a crime if you just don't succeed at it?

I thought that was a thing in America, you know, attempted robbery.

Attempted, you know, attempted, but still.

But speaking of Secretary of State, we all saw Condi Rice on an unnamed TV show just a few weeks ago.

And with all due respect to the former Secretary of State, she suggested this happened January 6th, but it's time to move on.

No, that's the problem.

The longer we take to get this thing under control, people start advancing these notions that happen, we got to move on.

And that is not the answer to the prayer of my grandmother, Michael.

I agree, but also, I'm concerned only about the future.

I'm concerned about the past only as it affects the future.

So it's great we're talking about subpoenas for what happened.

What I care about

is January 6, 2025.

And as you know, because you wrote me a nice email after I did a piece a few weeks ago about what I thought was going to happen, the slow-moving coup, which I've been talking about since before Trump was even elected.

And if I could just review basically, I said that, you know, he thought last time that all the Republicans would fall in line with what he wanted and do his bidding, and they didn't.

Some had integrity.

And what he's been doing since is replacing those people.

There's a purge going on behind the scenes.

So next time, when he calls them up and says, I hope you can find me a few votes, they're going to say, how many?

He's going to have his stooges in place.

That was what you wrote me about.

A lot of people did.

I think it's going to happen.

I think you guys, the Democrats, are going to lose big in 2022, which is going to make it worse.

There are going to be more state legislatures that can do that kind of monkeying behind the scenes to put the people in place who will do Trump's bidding.

I think Trump is going to declare for office.

I think he's going to get the nomination.

I think the rallies are going to start.

People are going to be,

it's going to get very violent out there.

My question is, what are we doing about the next time?

The election happens, say Trump loses.

Doesn't matter whether he, if he loses, he's going to say he won.

We know that.

There's no doubt he's going to say, I won.

And this time, he's not going to go away so easily come January 20th, 2025.

What are we doing about that when he

is insisting that he is the president whether he won or not and there are people who are helping him with it?

Well, I'm in complete agreement with

the alarm that you express and you feel about this because I think what Donald Trump took away from the failed insurrection is that if he couldn't find

11,000 votes in Georgia, couldn't find a corrupt elections official to give him those votes.

He's determined that next time he'll have someone in that position who will.

And basically it's a two-pronged strategy.

They're trying to disenfranchise people of color around the country so that they can win.

And if they lose, they want to be positioned to overturn the result.

Where I would disagree with

your forecast, I hope and pray, is we cannot lose the House.

We must hold the House.

If Kevin McCarthy had been Speaker in 2020, if we'd lost a few more seats in the 2020 election in the House, he would have overturned the result in the House.

He will do whatever Donald Trump tells him to do.

Someone like that can never be allowed to go near the Speaker's office.

So

step one, I think, has to be holding the House.

But step two, you know, God forbid we lose the House, is

We need to be fighting these efforts around the country today, not a year from now, not two years from now.

We've got to be defending these meritocratic, technocratic elections officials who are being the subject of death threats right now.

Let me give you some bad news about your prognostication.

More bad news?

Well, we had some good news today, Steve Bannon.

Come on.

In 2010, after Obama passed his stimulus plan and the Affordable Care Act, Democrats lost 63

seats in the House.

This is the reward you get for passing progressive legislation.

I'm just saying this on the eve of when you're passing this big infrastructure bill.

Lyndon Johnson's Great Society Congress lost 47 seats.

FDR's New Deal Congress lost 72 seats.

We could talk all night about why this is.

I'm just saying this is what did happen.

Also, on the

survey of threat to democracy, 81 percent of Americans believe there is a serious threat to democracy.

Which party represents a bigger threat?

You win, Adam.

Democrats, 42% to 41%.

So tell me why you're optimistic about 2022.

Well, I'll tell you, some of those historic precedents that you mentioned were elections like Barack Obama's election, in which when he originally took office, he swept into office along with him a large number of Democrats in districts that would be very hard to hold.

Two years later, there was a correction and those Democrats in those districts were wiped out.

Barack Obama also didn't go out and sell the Affordable Care Act.

He thought the job was done when it was done.

And Biden's doing that with the infrastructure.

And Biden is doing that, and he's going to do that with Build Back Better.

But also, when Biden was elected, he didn't have coat tails.

But let me get back to the question.

Let me get your answer on it.

What do we do between Election Day 2024

and January 20th, 2025,

when Trump, I mean, he still hasn't conceded this election.

What do we do?

Let me give you three answers as I see it.

First of all, I don't think it's a question of either or.

I think it has to be both hand.

What I mean by that is, I think we have to focus on January the 6th, which was the past.

I take your point.

But I think you can do both.

You've got to focus on January 6th.

We can't let them get away with that.

You've got to hold somebody accountable for that.

At the same time, we need to focus, as you said, on January 6th, 2025.

I'm all for that.

So there are a couple things I think we can do.

Number one, there's a reason why there are people all across this country, from California to the Carolinas, who are fighting against this kind of voter suppression.

There are people fighting every single day for voting rights.

It's a sad state of affairs, as I think the Congressman will agree, that we couldn't get any meaningful voting rights legislation passed in this Congress.

There were two major bills that were introduced.

Neither one could get through.

I understand in the Senate we got this 50-50 split.

Everything is

kind of held up because of these two senators who shall remain nameless, Manchin and Senem.

But these two senators are holding everything up.

But it's tragic.

It's tragic that we couldn't get meaningful voting rights legislation through.

So one, we need to keep fighting on that front.

But thirdly, I think it's important though for all Americans, regardless of race, color, or creed, to understand this is not a fight that just black folk are waging.

We're not the only ones who lose when voter suppression succeeds.

And so for those persons around the country who don't understand what this fight is all about, they've got to join in and understand that the right to vote is the most precious right that we have.

and as we fight folks

to vote doesn't matter it does matter I don't think it does not with people who don't recognize the tally but that doesn't matter if you come in by a zillion votes but if they if they're out there the next day

I mean three-quarters of the Republican Party doesn't believe Trump lost the last election

so let me add this and I'm sorry to say this Congressman but let me indict the Democrats in this regard it seems to me that the Democrats are focused on a national strategy.

We're so focused on Congress.

That's important.

Got to hold the House.

You got to advance in the Senate to the extent you can.

And I hear Bill's prognostication about how this might turn out.

But while Democrats are focused at the national level, these Republicans are doing exactly what we're talking about.

They're focused at the state level.

They're focused at the local level.

They're changing all these

election laws.

And it was Tip O'Neill, speaking of speakers, who once said that

all politics is local.

We're not focusing where we need to be focusing, and that's the problem.

Okay.

So if I can turn turn to the economy for one second, I was

talking to Kevin there about the supply chain issues.

I have been in the store lately, and I must tell you, some of the people are doing some.

Hold on, you went to the store?

You actually went to the store?

Yes, and I was masked when I did, so don't try to get me on that one.

But some of the things they're trying to sell at, because you can't get stuff right, and would you like to see some of the stuff I got in the store?

I mean, this is just

these people, they're trying to just pull a fast one.

Look at this.

Never-ready batteries.

This is.

Mr.

Clean Enough.

Brawny paper condoms is not a good...

Oh.

You bought your chef boy R.D.?

I love Chef.

I was trying to get it.

Look what they have.

Chef Cardi B's wet-ass possible.

Don't be fooled.

Craft macaroni, and your guess is as good as mine.

That's.

Oh, this is something.

Don't.

Jimmy Hoffa.

Don't Jimmy mean.

Lucky carbs.

That's ridiculous.

Oh, and here's the worst of all.

Mrs.

Ball's fish digs.

Thanks.

You're on something.

Okay, so.

All right.

So listen, excuse me, interruption for that.

$10 for that, Mr.

Clean Enough.

Yes, you can have that.

Bring that home.

That'll be a good gift for you.

So

after I did that piece on what was going to happen, the next week I said, you know, people were asking me, okay, what do we do?

And I said, well, short range, I can't tell you.

That's above my pay grade.

Long range, we have to reduce the hate.

Now, I'm traveling this weekend.

I'm going to be in New York tomorrow night, right, at the Hulu at Madison Square Garden.

Wow.

But the next night, Sunday, I'm in Hershey, Pennsylvania.

Whenever I go to any local city, I always read up on the local politicians so I can make fun of them.

So I'm reading up Scott Perry.

You know who this guy is?

Yes.

Okay, you must work with him.

He's a representative from this district.

Here's what he said a few months ago about you, the Democrats.

They are not the loyal opposition.

They are the opposition to everything you love and believe in.

Go fight them.

I read this not because it's remarkable, but because it's typical.

This is the rhetoric.

We never used to do this in America.

I mean, the parties were, yes, of course, at each other's throats to a degree.

They never said they're the opposition to everything you love and believe in.

This was my follow-up to this.

We have to stop this level of hate because no matter what the issues are, you can pass all the infrastructure bills.

I mean why was that infrastructure bill met with death threats, Congressman?

The most boring, should be bipartisan thing in the world, even if you're not for it, death threats for infrastructure?

Doesn't that tell you something about what we have to do in this country?

We have to,

why do they, so I'm just going to ask you the question.

Not that I'm saying it's your fault, but after 9-11, we always ask, why do they hate us?

Why do they hate us?

Well,

as someone who's received more than their share of death threats, your question.

Me or you.

Both of us, I guess.

Both of us.

We'll have to swamp details, security details.

Look, you mentioned the infrastructure bill and how voting for an infrastructure bill could be considered a death sentence or death threat worthy act.

In the Republican conference right now, they're discussing whether to strip Republicans of their committee assignments for voting for an infrastructure bill, a bipartisan infrastructure bill.

And calling them traitors.

And calling them traitors.

Conversely, when one of their members puts out a video glorifying violence against a fellow member of Congress, that's a-okay.

But infrastructure is a cardinal sin.

That's where Donald Trump's Republican Party is right now.

The Trump GOP has become an anti-democratic,

autocratic,

anti-truth party, a cult around the former president.

It is no exaggeration to say that the occupant of that office has the biggest megaphone, and he used it to bitterly divide the country.

But

why is there this hate to begin with?

I'm not even...

Well, it gets back to the conversation you were having earlier, which is...

Over the last three decades, there has been this massive change in our economy with globalization and automation.

Millions and millions of Americans are at risk of losing everything they have.

And that's a breeding ground for the rise of a demagogue.

It's not so much when people have nothing that they feel like a revolution.

It's when they have something they're worried about losing.

And he played upon that very skillfully.

He used it to pit Americans against other Americans.

He used it to suggest that the reason why people were suffering was because of those that didn't look like them.

That's very potent.

Donald Trump profited from that economic profound anxiety, which is true here and around the world.

It's why you see autocrats rising all around the world.

No, let me offer an answer, and I agree with everything you just said, but let me offer an answer that I think is even more simplistic than that.

But I think it is the answer here.

Why

you asked this question?

Because people in this moment are determined to win by any means necessary.

That's the answer.

People will do whatever they have to do to win.

They will do whatever they have to do to succeed.

And so incivility, the incivility in our society is run amok.

But we are all, Bill, we may or may not agree on this, but I think we're all complicit in this.

I think that politicians are complicit.

because they engage this behavior, Donald Trump and others.

He's not the only one.

I think that the American people are complicit because we ignore it when they do it and vote for them anyway.

And I think the mainstream media, frankly, is complicit.

We build these people up.

I was in a conversation the other day, Bill, and somebody said, We build people, the media builds people up

to tear them down.

I said, No, they build you up and they tear you down.

I said, No, they don't build you up and tear you down.

They build you up to tear you down.

Get the conjunction right.

They make money coming and they make money going.

And so they made money when they built Donald Trump up, and they made money when they turned on Donald Trump.

But all of us are complicit in this incivility, I think.

All of us.

Some more than others.

I mean, I mean,

you know, I mean, look, I have policy issues with AOC, but the Republican congressman who put out a cartoon of him in some anime cutting her head off.

I mean, it's just,

why does it have to, and this chant of let's go Brandon, which is their funny way of saying fuck Joe Biden.

And I know they say we in the past said fuck Trump.

Yeah, Robert De Niro said it.

He's not in Congress.

There are people in Congress doing that.

You're people you work with, they think it's

it just never, I'm just saying, I don't think you can have this level of hate and leave it, and it's not going to stay at a nonviolent level.

I mean, there's two, I mentioned in the moment, there's two very racially charged trials going on right now.

One seems pretty cut and dried, Ahmed Aubrey.

He was an unarmed black man killed on February 23rd, 2020 for suspicious running, I think, from two white guys who were in a pickup truck with a Confederate vanity plate.

Biden tweeted, he was killed in cold blood.

You know, first of all, I just want to say presidents never used to talk like that.

So let's recognize a little progress, right?

I mean, that's something.

But

one black juror on this trial, because the defense removed the black jurors, the prosecution removed all the white jurors.

If there's an acquittal, and then there's the Kyle Rittenhouse case, this kid who watched too many comic book movies and thought he could be a hero and save Kenosha while he was living in Illinois and went to war for freedom or a car dealership or something, I don't know.

But either one of these trials, I could see

wars start with tinder boxes, with spark plugs, with just a little match thrown on something.

It's always a small incident, and then it becomes something big.

I don't know if it's these in this year, but this is what I worry about.

And again, until you walk back this level of hate that we have for each other, you know, a startling number of people in this country want to secede, whatever that would mean.

How would we secede in California, which has 4 million Trump voters?

What do we do about this hate?

Dr.

King once said famously that you cannot legislate morality.

He's right about that.

You can't legislate people's behaviors.

But there are things that we can do.

With specific regard to the Ahmaud Arbery case bill,

Thurgood Marshall, the late great Supreme Court justice, said in 1986, as I recall, in the case of Batson versus Kentucky, that the only way to get rid of

racism in jury selection is to do away with these peremptory challenges.

Period.

Now, every lawyer in America goes crazy when you start talking about doing away with peremptory challenges.

But I think Justice Marshall was right about this in 1986, and we haven't taken it seriously.

You have to do away with the capacity that people have, the ability they have to strike people for all these reasons that they make up.

But we know what they're really doing, right?

You got to get rid of these peremptory challenges.

And were that the case, we wouldn't have had 11 black potential jurors be stricken from the possibility of serving on that jury.

So you end up to you, as you said, again,

prosecution did the reverse.

Yeah.

This is what I worry about: that a civil war becomes a race war.

Can I just mention, and I agree with Tavis,

the two things that worry me the most that I've seen in these two trials are: one, the decision to use peremptories to strike black jurors.

And in that Batson case, Justice Brennan set up a test for determining whether these peremptory challenges that you don't need to give a reason for are based, really hiding racism.

The test, I don't think, has worked.

And I think we should get rid of it.

The other issue

in the Rittenhouse case was a decision by the judge to say you can't call these victims victims, but you can call them rioters, arsonists, looters.

Those two factors,

what to me, as a former prosecutor, a decision I find very hard to reconcile about why one side can call them what they want and the other side can't, and the striking of black jurors, I think breeds public distrust in whether you're going to get a just result in either case.

And you layer on that bill, as you're talking about,

these incredible tensions among Americans.

And it's explosive.

And to me, among the gravest threats to our country right now, and one of the reasons why I agree with you, the January 6th work is so important, this big lie they're pushing about our election isn't just a lie about a particular election.

It's basically an argument that we can't trust elections to decide who should govern anymore.

We should use violence.

That's really at the heart of that.

Can I add two things right quick?

On

these peremptory challenges, it's important to understand that this is not, as you well know, Congressman, this is not a constitutional bill.

It's a legal tradition.

It is not constitutional.

What are we talking about?

These challenges, these peremptory challenges.

They're not constitutional.

It's a legal tradition.

So my point is that we can do away with it if we had

the will to do it.

This ain't a skill problem.

It's a will problem.

We don't have the will to do away with it, number one.

but the other thing i want to come back to is the point you made again uh earlier bill which is you said that the prosecution used the challenges and so did the defense in the arbitrary trial you're correct about that here's the problem both sides can do it but one side suffers disproportionately both sides do but people of color are the ones who suffer i understand the most when that is done that's

i'm just saying it's troubling yeah

as a uh as an omen of things to come

when we divide this way like i don't trust any black people.

Oh, I don't trust any white people.

It's like prison.

Yeah, but it's not.

You got to join a tribe.

I don't want America to go in that direction.

And I don't think we're being led in the right direction by either side.

Yeah, but when you say we, that's my only issue.

I want to push back on that ever so gently.

What we are you talking about?

Black folk and brown people ain't doing nothing to the larger white community.

So when you say we, you're acting as if you sound as if.

You said we the country.

Yeah, but I mean, I know, but who's the, but who's the we?

Because some of us are not engaged in that nonsensical activity.

Okay, well, here's a question.

After the governor of Virginia, the new governor won,

MSNBC headline was, Glenn Young's victory proves white ignorance is a powerful weapon.

I don't think that helps.

No, I don't think some of this, I'm an old school liberal.

I believe in a colorblind society.

That's not where woke is.

Okay, there's a lot of resegregation go on.

There's a lot of, you're either a racist or you don't know you're a racist.

So, yes, there's some we on the other side of the corner.

But at the risk of sounding repetitive, even with that example you just mentioned, these are not people of color who are the ones, the ones who are catching the hail every day are not the ones raising the hail.

They're not the ones causing this problem.

And I just want to put a fine point on that.

Okay.

Thank you guys.

That was a fascinating discussion.

Time for new rules, everybody.

New rules.

Okay,

Nurul, Mike Pence must admit that even though he's not quite sure why, he finds what the UPS trucks are doing in this photo highly offensive.

Neural, someone must tell the celebrants worshiping this dog during the Holy Tihar Festival in Nepal that he'd much rather just have a belly rub.

He's not thinking, what an honor.

He's thinking, I'm a dog and I know this is bullshit.

Nurul, if I tell you I love a movie or a TV show and you don't, it's perfectly okay for you to not immediately tell me how much you hate it and why it sucks.

Okay.

I don't do that to you.

If you say I love my kids, I don't say really, because I've never really cared for anything they've done.

New rule, instead of paying off the national debt, let's just put it on the cloud

and then lose the password.

If someone emails us about it, we say we didn't get it.

It probably went to spam.

Problem solved.

Do boomers have to do everything?

New world, the British press has to stop saying that Joe Biden farted in front of Camilla Parker Bowles,

and it was long and loud and impossible to ignore.

It's a climate conference.

He was promoting natural gas.

And of all the people on earth, she should be able to ignore an old fart.

And finally, new rules, someone has to tell me why we keep allowing social media and our very lives as social creatures to be dictated by the most socially awkward person in history.

In case you missed it, a couple of weeks ago, Facebook announced that the name of the parent company has been changed to Meta, the better to reflect Mark Zuckerberg's new master plan for what he has called an embodied internet, where instead of viewing content, you are in it.

Because why spend hours typing on Facebook to argue with your brother-in-law about Ivory Mecton

when your avatar can yell at his avatar in person?

Well

not in person, of course, in the Matrix, where Mark wants us all to live.

He says, anything you do in real life can be done in this new metaverse, playing cards, sitting in a park, getting a bad haircut.

It's easy.

You just put on goggles, gloves, and, I don't know, suction cups on your balls, and

now you're in the magical land of the metaverse because everyone looks cool with shit strapped to their head

in the metaverse you can tour the pyramids or have a sword fight with a duck

all without having to leave the comfort of your parents basement

We we've all seen this depicted in movies like Ready Player One, where an elaborate metaverse serves as a retreat for people to escape the misery of existence.

Something I always felt was better handled by weed.

But I'm not a visionary like Mark Zuckerberg.

I tried virtual reality once, and I don't know, I put on the goggles, and suddenly I was in a hot air balloon over France, and then I was riding a broomstick around Hogwarts, and

then I was in the bathroom throwing up.

It was like getting roofied by Walt Disney.

Here's some actual footage from Zuckerberg's recent presentation about what this new world will look like.

That's right, you're at a concert with a friend who seems to be a ghost.

And a giraffe who has better seats than you,

which is selfish when you're that tall.

But that's Mark's vision: that two friends can attend a concert together when, in reality, I mean the old reality,

both are really sitting at home.

What great fun, especially for the band playing to an empty stadium.

That's right, a concert where no one has to actually be at the concert.

Or, as Travis Scott said, now you tell me.

But I must say, I'm a little worried that if we get ourselves too far away from reality, we won't be able to find our way back.

Phony used to be a bad thing, and keeping it real was good.

That's why I named this show Real Time and not Avatar Time.

We just went through a pandemic.

The last thing I want is more virtual.

And that's what the metaverse sounds like it's going to be, the pandemic year, except forever.

You have to ask yourself, why does Mark Zuckerberg think living in a metaverse would be so much better?

Because look at him: the dead eyes,

the lack of recognizable human features, the painted-on hair.

He's already an avatar.

I'm I'm pretty sure that the person we think is Zuckerberg is a sim,

while the real one lives on a yacht staffed by a hundred beautiful women where he plays Pokemon Go all day.

This is the worst kind of person to make the overlord of a new universe.

Even before the pandemic, nearly three in ten American males between 18 and 30 weren't having sex.

Almost triple what that number was 10 years earlier.

The closest they come to talking to a girl is Alexa.

And spending so much time on screens has a lot to do with that.

This is the phenomenon known as incels.

Incels.

Yeah, that's short for involuntarily celibate.

And it's not harmless.

It never is when any society for whatever reason creates men who are cut off from women.

And it's not going well here with the incels.

It has become a toxic subculture of angry,

misogynistic digital eunuchs.

And the metaverse is only going to make it meta-worse because it's a vicious cycle.

The more time you spend in the virtual world, the more you suck at engaging in the real world.

So the more.

So the more you retreat into the virtual, which further atrophies your real social skills, including and most importantly, getting laid.

You've heard of the cycle of life.

This is the cycle of get-a-life.

Of men with no game who immerse themselves, ironically, in games.

and other substitutes for female companionship, especially hero movies.

Oh, if they all want to be a hero so badly.

All the movies are about how a hero will rise.

There's always a hero rising.

You want to be a hero?

Rise from the couch.

Rise from the couch.

Lose the cargo shorts.

Get a shirt with a collar, brush the crumbs off your beard, shave your beard, and talk to a girl.

Earn it.

Earn being heroic by taking that long, brave walk across a room to ask someone out.

The vast majority of men don't have to fight wars anymore or hunt for food, and Lord knows there aren't any real Lokis or green goblins to fight.

The one place you can step up and show courage is this.

Be a hero to women.

Show yourself.

Show yourself.

You still have an ounce of courage in your nutsack by

risking rejection and going up to a girl.

And if it doesn't work out, then you can go home and spank it.

All right, that's our show.

I'll be at the Mirage in Vegas November 26th and 27th, the Maui Arts Center, December 30th, and the Blaisdale in Honolulu, New Year's Eve, and the Florida Theater at Jacksonville, January 16th, 2022.

I want to thank Thomas Miley, Adam Schiff, and Kevin O'Leary.

Thank you very much.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.