"Jim Gaffigan"

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Hey guys, I got a mouthful of English muffin

with a glass full of apple juice here on the rocks.

Thank you very much.

And I'm here with my surprise guest today,

who is a clapping sea lion.

Oh, my God.

This is, by the way, before Jason and Will are on.

Welcome to SmartList.

Smart.

Liars.

Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Crazy. I can't see surprise guest yet.
No, you're not supposed to. Wait,'re not supposed to by the way he won't he won't stop clapping oh we got a live one yeah oh boy might want to just get right to this guest into our chat afterwards we're going on over here by the way, what a wonderful dinner we had last night.
We had a nice dinner, didn't we, the three of us? It was gorgeous. We really did.
Listen, the three of us don't really get a chance to have just a three-top. Yeah.
Not since the early 90s. It went really well.
Sean generously picked up the bill. I know.
Kind of sneaky-like. Very sneaky-like.
I know. I got to be honest.
I know. I know it's nice to do, but consider this sometime.
And again, I don't want this to seem like I'm being ungrateful because it was very nice of you, so thank you. This is all dressed up in a thank you.
But keep in mind, other people might want to have the opportunity to do that as well. i mean so so you don't want to take away from other people the ability save it will's got about the fucking shortest fucking t-rex arms you'll ever find at a dinner table this fucking guy you could fucking you could drop a check on fire in front of him and he wouldn't bat it out He wouldn't touch it.
That is so untrue. He'd just let it catch his fucking pants on fire before he touched a burning check.
That is so untrue. That is patently untrue.
Prove me wrong. Sean, one of the crew members just walked through.
Yeah, a bear just walked through your living room. A bear crew member.
Speaking of livestock, we ate a lot of cooked cow last night. I woke up at 2.30 in the morning and had to chug Pepto-Bismol because my stomach is so unused to...
It was like a four it was like a four pound steak wasn't that so good going down though oh yeah it was great no it was so good actually you know what sean after you left us we went and tried uh we we were both stuffed we were tired as we know we only went five more blocks that fucking steak sandwich we got bradley's house and he's got his steaks you know he, he's opening a steak sandwich shop in the Lower East Side. Yeah, so good.
By the way, he made them for all of us. Danny and Coops, something like that? I think that's right.
Is it Danny and Coops? Check it out. I think it's on Avenue A, he said.
Yeah, in the Lower East Side, it makes just... So good.
I think, what did he say on the menu? It's just steak sandwiches. It's just steak sandwiches.
Yeah. Either with cheese or without, period.
No, with onions or without. Oh, God.
Right, right. It's going to be huge.
So Sean, after that meal we had last night, Jason, I go over there, and then Bradley's literally cooking these up in his house, and he goes, here we go. And he's got his kids there and a bunch of other people, and he's like, here you go're like no man we just fucking we just had a absolute feast yeah and then within 20 minutes jb gets up yeah and has one well no wonder you got up at 2 30 in the morning but because he walked me through the whole process of how he got the recipe from this guy who makes the best steak sandwiches in philadelphia and then you know bradley like perfected it over like a year because just loved these sandwiches so much and he taught himself how to cook them and then approached the guy to open up an annex.
It's so good. Don't you remember he made them for us, I don't know, eight, nine months ago.
They were so good. Yes, I do remember.
Anyway, it was really, and I ended up having one too and they were absolutely delicious. But how about this? I walked back because.
First of got two things to say about so when we got it from the number one when we got it from the table last night at dinner jason you pulled aside and said i gotta run in the bathroom real quick so me and will went outside and waited for you i should have thrown it all up at that point taking it all out of me in the bathroom and then we're standing there and then you come out and both Will and I are like, wait a minute, who's this fucking guy coming up talking to us out of the blue? He's like, it's crazy. And I thought, where's JB? I'm like, I'm thinking, you're like, who's this twink? Yeah.
I told you I'm like, you wish. You wish.
Well, I don't even know what a twink is. Is that good or bad? No, you're a twink.
So listener, they're talking about because I've had my, I've looked like Jesus Christ for the last nine months, basically, as I'm playing this guy with long hair and long beard and all that stuff. And I just cut it all off because we came to the end of the thing.
The number of people, and Sean, you're probably the same, who have come up to me as if I'm your wife over the last six months go, hey, or texted me. People have gone so far and gone like, hey, what's up with Jason? How come he's here so long? And I'm like, he's an actor.
What do you think? But they all assume. I love that nobody assumes that I would be doing it for any sort of acting part.
Nobody thinks you're in trouble. Everybody thinks I'm in trouble.

They go there instead of like,

well, he's not much of a thespian.

He's not going to change his look for a part.

He must have just hit fuck it

and we got to send him some money.

Why did Marty Berg grow his hair?

And then you dropped me off.

And then we said, I went, I'm like,

well, where's Uptown?

Because I'm so lost downtown.

Like, I don't understand.

And he would just go that way.

I was walking for like 20 minutes. I'm like, I don't have to know.
And he was a half a block from 8th Avenue. And he walked all the way into the Hudson River.
I was, I have no idea where I was. I was scared out of my mind.
And I, and then I asked this, these four people, I'm like, do you know where like Uptown, like which direction Uptown is? Well, first give us your wallet. You got mugged.
You asked people which direction Uptown is. And it was a young married couple and then in-laws.
And the married couple was like, yeah, you go that way. And then the mom of the in-laws goes, oh my God, Will and Grace.
And then the two young married couples are like, oh my God, smartless. And then the dad goes, just to make sure to keep me real, he goes, I don't know who the hell you are.
Right? And I go, I go, I don't know. Isn't that the funniest instinct that people have? I've had people come up and go like, hey, my friends want to pick, I have no idea you, I want to know, pick you out of a lineup of one.
I couldn't care. You're zero to me.'re zero to me.
Yeah, you're zero. But anyway, they want to get a pick.
And you're like, okay, well, thanks for telling me, man. I didn't ask.
Anyway, let's get into our guest. He's been waiting long enough.
Honestly, Sean, I feel like, why are you crying? This is like, we've unearthed. Okay, that's not gonna do it.
Okay. This guy makes me laugh so hard.
I love this guy. We've got a lot in common, both Midwestern boys, large Irish families.
Interesting fact, he's been in over 200 commercials. He's performed for the Pope.
I think that means stand-up. 200 commercials? That's amazing.
And how when he was eight, he stood in line for two hours to meet Jimmy Walker from Good Times just to have him sign Dino-Mite. Well, today, we get the other explosive Jimmy.
Guys, it's the brilliant, the prolific, the funny, the lovable Jim Gaffigan, who we love. Jim Gaffigan.
Wow. Hello there.
I'm a big fan of yours. Oh, shucks.
Jeez. You know, it was so weird is you guys went to dinner last night, and I don't know why, and I think the listeners should know this, that you made me be the waiter, which I thought was strange.
Well, just as a rehearsal. Yeah, hear us out, Jim.
We just figured that we know how real you like to keep it. Yeah.
I mean, a lot of people should know that Sean Hayes does not tip at all. Not financially.
Which is weird. I said, is this it? Do you need change? And he said, I need you to change your attitude.
And I said, all right. Oh, my God.
Now, Jim, do you still have that autograph that says Dynamite from Jimmy Walker? No. Damn it.
I love that. I only remember that because I saw a photo of it.
Because I had a Dynamite hat. Yeah.
I'm probably older than all you guys. You are? Probably not.
There was a big, I mean, Will looks the oldest. But like the big.
Wait a second. Wait a second.
Do I? No No, I think it's Will could be like, well, I think Will would be, there is, a lot of people don't know, he's doing a movie where he's playing Gavin Newsom's dad. Yeah.
Wow. This is the Arnett roast.
Will, we didn't want to tell you before we got started. You know, Will, I just do that because I'm scared.
Why? Frankly, I'm a little scared. I'm intimidated.
Why? Three buddies. I'm the new kid.
I don't know how to fit in. You're so safe here.
You're already fitting in beautifully. The dirty little secret about this podcast is it really doesn't matter who we have on as a guest because we don't let them talk anyway.
We just like to hear ourselves talk.

You're on cruise control for the next hour.

Right.

Or 45.

Jim, we don't know each other well,

but you came up very kindly to Canada and did that hospital benefit.

Do you remember that?

Was that right?

Or did you block it out?

No, I remember it.

I remember it very clearly.

You were hilarious.

Oh, thanks.

You absolutely crushed.

Always is.

And you always crush. Yeah.
I know, because you've been doing his crush. He never pushes.
Never pushes. Just trying to get my dad to like me.
And I don't know if it's going to work. Is dad still with us? No, he's been dead for like 20 years.
You're waiting for a message? He's right over here. He's just off camera.
When you hear that. Wake up.
I've been telling every morning, I'm like, wake up. He's really tired.
He's really tired. He just put new ice on him every day.
Yeah, he's just. Hey, how did you get to be in 200 commercials? I'm actually envious of that.
I was on this show, Silver Spoons. No.
That was Jason. No, there was an era in the 90s where they really loved the idea of the dumb white guy in every commercial.
And I was like, I'll do that. Sean wasn't available.
I did those too. I did a ton of them.
There's a lot of dumb white guy work. I immediately started thinking, oh, wait, this is one of those guys that's got one of those campaigns.
It's like the Jack in a Box guy. The progressive girl.
Yeah, exactly. It would add up quickly.
Yes, I did Rolling Rock and Saturn, which was a car company. And this is back in the days when they would pay, right?

You could get about 30 grand

by the time a national commercial is done with its cycle, right?

Wasn't it about, you could count on about $30,000?

Absolutely.

How many brands did you sink, do you think?

I would say.

Rolling Rock for one, Saturn for two.

Jimmy, so you were born in Elgin, Illinois. That's so crazy.
Is it Jimmy? Yeah, it's Jimmy. Yes, it is.
When I was a little kid, I was Jimmy. Now, where are you from, Sean? Glen Ellyn.
So it's like 20 minutes from Elgin. Yeah.
Well, we moved pretty quickly to Northwest Indiana. I mean, when I was eight, I guess.
And you wanted to be a farmer? I did. What did you want to farm? You know, I think corn.
Sure. It's weird.
It's a pretty vague dream. And not soybeans.
Not something sexy like soybeans or rye, but like corn, you know, like a normal plant. No, I did want to be a farmer.
And then, but I also wanted to be an actor. I know, like early on, and your dad was the CEO of the Mercantile National Bank of Indiana.
Yes. So crazy.
And then you wanted to be, and what did he think of you wanting to be an actor? He thought it was pretty fucking stupid. Sure.
No, you know, it was, my parents were children of, you know, like their parents went through the depression. So like the whole objective was to seek security.
Yeah. And I think my family had been in the country and my father was the first one to go to college.
But before that, everyone was coal miners. So it was just like,

we finally got to the middle class and you want to become a show person? It was just absurd. It

was like, why throw it away? Yeah, but it's interesting because this happens all the time.

We talk about this all the time. You're the youngest of six.
I'm the youngest of five. And it seems to be like a lot of people we talk to, the youngest in the family always wants to be the actor or the performer or the attention seeker, I guess.
Isn't that weird? Well, the alcoholism was so significant by the time we were teenagers. Yeah, same.
Were you close with your dad? My dad was this huge influence on me, but it was weird.

I think it was mostly trying to make my mom laugh.

But, you know, the whole father relationship is so complex.

And again, I think, I don't know about with you,

there was such a parental fatigue that had hit by the time I was a teenager. My dad was like, I didn't even sign up for any of this.
You know what I mean? And having children myself, I'm kind of like, can they go to boarding school or middle school? Can they do that? It's just, it's exhausting, right? You say you do have children yourself or you don't? Yes, yes. I have five.
I have five. Oh my God God.
Wow. I know.
That's a lot of kids. I'm a very fertile guy.
How old is your youngest, Jim? He just turned 12. Oh, wow.
Wow. And I feel like with every kid, there was a reason for me to like him.
You're like, all right, this one likes me so much. I like him.
And then my youngest one looks like me. And so I'm like, all right, I got a mini me.
I got to be excited about that. Yeah.
It is amazing, right? Like how you have, you develop these different relationships with the kids based on completely different stuff. I mean, I know you're kind of making a half a joke, but like there is something to be said for like, well, the initial bond started because that little thing that couldn't speak or do anything yet has an attraction to me.
And it's almost like a puppy. Like kids are like puppies before they can speak.
Yeah, of course. And it's like, oh, they jump on my lap all the time.
And so, well, I like you too. And now you're my favorite pet.
Yeah, and then your role changes. And you're like, okay, I'm the peacekeeper between, because daughters and mothers go through some weird crap.
And now I'm kind of Boutros, Boutros golly here, you know, trying to keep some peace. And then there's just different ones where you're like, all right, I'm the evil cop that, you be the disciplinarian.
Yeah, or the one kid's actually less like a puppy and much more like a cat. So they're difficult.
They don't give you the time of day. So you end up being very drawn to that one.
I got to win that one over, right? Independence. You've got almost a half a dozen there.
It must be. My relationship with my kids is so good.
I don't have to like worry about rules. We just kind of click.
Oh, man. Sorry, I just wanted to.
Just click, click, click. Hey, Jim, you don't really think I look older than the other guys do.
No. Let's double back a little bit.
No. Tuck on that.
Okay. Now, Jim, where are you? Are you in Los Angeles, New York? I'm in New York.
Yeah, right. I live in New York.
That's cool. Have you been in New York a long time? I've been here for 35 years.
I've done some time in, you know, when I was on a show, I would be in LA for six months or six weeks. I did pilot season.
Oh, yeah, every year. Now, your time in Los Angeles, is this something you kind of, you know, hold your nose and kind of get through it or do you like it out there? I don't have anything against Los Angeles.
I mean, I'm not a fan of sunlight, but I'm very much, too much show business is not good for my mental health. Like I, that's what I like about New York that like you have friends that are not in the business, and you can kind of separate yourself from it, if that makes sense.
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And now, back to the show. Do you ever worry that like by having that healthy kind of distance from show business and the pursuit of it and all that stuff that you run the risk of not going to the places that you want to go career-wise? I ask because these guys always keep me in check and give me proper ridicule about how sort of keeping my eye on the ball I am about like what's happening in the business tree and what should I be doing next and all that stuff.
I can't help it, but I envy those that have a healthy distance from me. But you also grew up in it.
So that's a little different in that way. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've definitely, I think my career might be completely different if I lived in LA.
I mean, it is 99% of the business. Right.
But it's also, I don't want to sound like the person, you know, like there's a, you know, like, I'm not like Sam Shepard said, I'm on a farm in Virginia. Right.
You can fax me only. You know what I mean? It's like, I wish I could be that guy.
I mean, I definitely care. I'm definitely the guy who's, you know, works really, I'm the guy who does his homework.
You know what I mean?

I'm not like, I don't even know.

I don't even know my agent's name.

No, yeah, you've been able to stay so relevant for so long.

You've had this really long career and yet you've been able to, you know,

live outside of it to a certain extent, yeah?

Oh, thanks.

Yeah, it's admirable.

Jim, how many years, what was your first break and how many years have you been doing stand-up? I've been doing it for like 35 years. And was it always stand-up first or was it an actor first and then you wanted it? It was a little bit of both, but it was, I would say, yeah, it was, you know, stand-up was something I always did, but I always wanted to act.
But they're such fantastic actors in New York. Yeah, but the Jim Gaffigan show was hilarious.
I want to give the stand-up. First of all, what was the first night? What was the first time you were like in front of people? The first time I was so, you know, there's such an audacity necessary to go into this business, right? But, and also with standup to go on stage that I waited till someone dared me.
I had a fear of public speaking. So I took an improv class.
This is way before UCB existed. And in the improv class, someone was like, there's a stand-up seminar.
This is in 1990, 1991. Is this New York or Chicago? New York.
Okay. And then I, so I did stand-up for the first time and it was, I fell in love immediately.
And then- How about that? Kind of bombed for six months and yeah yeah did you write did you write uh did you write jokes that first time or did you just kind of wing it what'd you do oh yeah no it was i did this it was kind of like a seminar thing it was like someone really holding your hand you know yeah um it was yeah it wasn't like me and my buddies went to a club and i got on stage and it was magic, you know. Do you still like, what is the oldest joke that you still have in your rotation? Like still one from the early years at all? I mean, it's, you know, at this point, I haven't done jokes from back then for at least a decade.

And sometimes I'll write a joke and I'll think, oh, this is great.

And then my wife will be like, you know that was on your third special, that joke.

I'm like, oh, all right.

I don't even remember that I had done a joke.

You already complained about your kids that way.

Does she dabble in our industry as well? Yes. She did directing and she also was the showrunner of the Jim Gaffigan show.
Initially, when we stand up, we used to totally, once we were married, we wrote together. And then with five kids, you're lucky to have a conversation with your partner.
Wait, so she's showrunner for Jim Gaffigan's show. So what, you had an overall with the network or with the studio? Yeah, that was, you know, before cable completely fell apart,

even though I guess it's coming back,

we had a deal at CBS.

We did two rounds of pilots.

They were committed to single-camera comedies,

and then they weren't.

And so they released us,

and we had an offer from a couple cable things. But like the most attractive offer came from TV Land.
TV Land was going to do this massive rebranding thing. And of course, we were like, all right, yeah, great.
And then we went over there and then then like a month before the show started airing, they, yeah, we're not going to do a massive rebranding. Shawnee did some TV Land work, yeah? Yeah, that was the show.
We did, we produced. With Betty White.
Hot in Cleveland. Yeah, wait a minute.
Were you on, was Teachers, you guys? No, that was Melissa, I think. Hot in Cleveland with Betty White.
Yeah. That was the first, I think that was the first show that launched TV Land.
Yeah, I think that was part of the big TV Land relaunch. Yeah, we got lucky.
Wait, so what network was Jim Gaffigan show on then? I forget. It was on TV Land.
It was. It was on TV Land.
So you and your wife write the pilot together or she writes the pilot? I wrote the pilot with Peter Tolan. Oh, yeah.
Who's really funny, yeah. The great Peter Tolan.
And then he was under a Sony deal, and so he couldn't go when we went to TV land. I mean, sometimes they re-aired every episode on Comedy Central, so that's where people would end up seeing it.
Yes. So wait, so, God, so much I wanted to talk about.
Oh, wait, by the way, we, I heard you love to go to Steakhouse after each stand-up thing. I love steak, yeah.
We just had, we just went to a steakhouse last night. We had a great steak last night.
You ever been to Strip Steakhouse? Strip? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
And so do you guys try, how often do you guys get together and pretend they're like each other? Yeah, not very, not that often. Too hard.
We're not that good at acting. No, we have dinner when we're on town like once a week, but it's with everybody and family.
Yeah, just the three of us is a rare thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that's what's also so great about whenever I do podcasts is like, it forces you to have these conversations with your friends because things can spin out of control and it's like getting paid to hang around your friends is not bad. Yeah, that's how this started.
I know you guys donate all your money. Yes.
A lot of people don't know that. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
All the money is donated, which is amazing. Are you worried though? I do think about, because I love Steakhouse too, like in still at the steak sorry yeah I can't wait to hear what Jim might be worried about in the steakhouse industry what is it no no I mean sure jump in if you want yeah but but I love please finish this I like the simplicity of the menu there's like things.
Because remember Jerry's Deli in Los Angeles?

Remember Jerry's Deli?

You sit down.

I bet Cheesecake Factory must really piss you off.

Cheesecake Factory too.

It's a book and it's like 200.

And I almost have to get up because my anxiety,

like if there's too many choices, I can't do it.

But a steakhouse, it's like there's four things here

and there's four sides.

What do you want?

It's the sauces that get me pissed off at a steakhouse though.

I never know which way to go. That's why I always do ketchup.
I always do ketchup with my steak. You are Midwestern.
Yeah, it really is. I like it at a steakhouse when they kind of show you the meat or they show you a potato.
We got a potato. We got this lobster flown in from Maine.
It's just like- Morton's does that. It's like so dumb guy-ish.
Like, hey, you're a dumb guy. This is a potato.
We can cook it for you. I love it.
Now, I know I'm jumping all around, but I want to go back to your career. Jimmy, when you first did Beyond the Pale, that was your first stand-up special, and you had, I don't know how many after, and what blew my mind is how many Grammys you've been nominated for.
What? Like, many times you've been nominated? I think seven times. But, you know, I'm never going to win one.
But that's crazy. That's amazing.
Well, because some of it is like, I'm just so thrilled that the Grammys even include, you know, stand-up comedy. And in the end, there's always, you know, some very important newsworthy comedic event that's occurred, you know, whether it be, you know, Chappelle doing anything or like, you know, one year it was Weird Al Yankovic did the first comedy album in 25 years.
It's like, obviously he's going to win. You know what I mean? Right, right, right.
Yeah, but I don't know.

I think it's pretty... Yeah, you're right.
You're never going to win.

Which is the award

with the

circle that

spins around? Is that the Tony?

Sean?

Does it spin?

It does spin. It does.

Do you have it there or is it in LA?

It's in LA.

The Grammy's the one with the horn. By the way, it's so funny.
That's the gramophone, yeah. With the horn.
It's funny. Hey, Jim, sometimes you sit back and just...
Just marvel. You just point the pointer, and these two little kitties, they just go all over the rug.
And you just point the pointer. Do you have...
A little ball of yarn. i usually ask people like if they have any crazy theater stories but in this case do you have any crazy like fan stories that you have that like any kind of insane out of all of the um well out of all the touring you've done for sure but of the specials or the tour where just somebody insane didn't ever stop yeah no there's, there's definitely, you guys were talking about, I feel like I'm so goofy looking.
So like I'm very recognizable if you know who I am. You look like John America.
That's what you look like. But like a pale version of it.
So it's like, I'm either the guy that, you know, shovels your driveway or I'm Jim Gaffigan, right? So there is, so I could be, and I have horrible vision. So, but because I'm pale and goofy looking, people can see me from far away.
They're like, oh, is that, hey, is that Jim Gaffigan? And I can't see who they are because I'm blind. But you've been, you've been, you've been loved and on television or some form of media for so long.
You must not be able to walk down the street often without getting stopped or going, hey, hey, that's a, hey. Yeah, do you get a lot of that? Yeah, a lot.
You know, like I'm playing, I'm, you know, I've provided them a riddle. You know what I mean? Like, hey, do I, how am I supposed to know you? Yeah, you catch a lot of people just staring at you from across the room, trying to figure it out.
Especially in strip clubs. They're always like, who is that guy? Because it's too dark.
Yeah, because you've got five kids. What are you doing here? Trying to get a six kid.
They take their phone out. Click.
No, but you were maybe going to tell us. Go down.
Oh, yeah. You know what I would say is the, you know, there is a theater story.
I did that championship season on Broadway. And it was the amount of testosterone in the cast was absolutely insane.

It was me, Kiefer Sutherland, Brian Cox, Chris Noth, and Jason Patrick, whose dad wrote the play. And so it's a great play.
And it was, but like, so like when you talk about theater stories, we went, I mean, it's also like this last,

I think of like, there's this last generation of people that, and there's a segment of this generation

that drink like our parents did.

And those guys are those guys.

And so every night we would, every night was like a,

it was, the stamina is just bizarre.

Like these guys can throw it away and then get up

I'm going to're all doing but like they were it was so bizarre to go out on stage because i always had this vision of broadway being oh my you know like people in top hats and stuff that. And it's like people would walk out and people are like,

24, it's sex in this, it's, you know, it was just bizarre how it was.

It was that people were going to, so they could see Mr. Big.

Right, right, right, right, right.

But yeah, people really, really like it.

But your earlier standup stuff, do you, is there a,

when you were first starting, is there, Oh yeah. Do you tend to remember the good performances more than the bad ones? I try to block out some really humiliating things.
But I did a show on Long Island at Governors. And Long Island is great, but parts of Long Island, you know, it can be not necessarily combative, but just kind of.
Oh, yeah. And I would walk on stage when I started, you know, looking like the farm boy that I wanted to be.
And these, you know, like these New Yorkers would be like, look at this guy. You know what I mean? And so like early 90s comedy was very combat driven.
Like this guy is just a pussy. you know, like these New Yorkers would be like, look at this guy.
You know what I mean? And so like early 90s comedy was very combat driven. Like this guy is just a pussy.
You know what I mean? And so I remember I was on stage. It was a late show at Governor's and I got on stage and someone in the audience was mooing.
They were actually mooing. Moo.
Moo. And I was like, oh, this is great.
Okay. So, because I'm from Indiana, they're mooing.
And so then I tried to, you know, deal with the heckler. And normally, you know, you have a microphone, you have an advantage, but it didn't really work.
And so then eventually there was enough slack on the microphone. So I walked into the audience to find out who this mooing person was.
And there was somebody severely handicapped lying in a hospital bed who could only articulate, no, Jim, only communicate by going, moo. So I had spent a good 20 minutes tearing into this severely disabled.
Like they had like the keyboard and everything. And I'm just like, but the crowd had known.
And I was like, all right, I'm just going to kill myself. And they, you know, they were very forgiving.
And the person loved the attention.

But that was probably one of the more valuable situations. That's quite a story.

Sean, have you learned your lesson?

Never ask that question again.

Yeah.

Wow.

Do you have a clear,

I'm sorry if you've answered this question a million times,

but do you have a clear preference

between stand-up and acting?

Because you've done tons of

both. One, the words come beforehand.
The other, the words come after. I love doing both of them because I think that stand-up is such a bizarre existence at night and stuff like that.
And it's so solitary and they can, whereas the collaborative thing of acting is so amazing.

But I think the process of getting acting jobs is so maddening that I would totally lose my mind if I had to rely just on that emotionally. Yeah.
I mean, some of this, yeah, it's job security to have created an audience. Yeah, you can control, in one lane of your career, you're fully in control of that.
You can sit down and write some great stuff. You can get the creative fulfillment.
Whereas, you know, I've done a lot of dramas, but to this day, I had a meeting two days ago, and I've done tons of dramas, and

people are always, they all have the idea, what if we put Jim Gaffigan in a drama?

And I'm like, all right, I mean, most of them have been indies, but I'm like, and you want

to be polite and go, yeah, sure, that would be great, even though I've been doing that

for a long time. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
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And now back to the show.

Do any of your kids share the business tree passion?

Yeah, I think, you know,

I've toured doing standup with my 18-year-old son.

He's really funny.

Oh, no way.

So like he opens for you or closes for you or together? Yeah done yeah you know oh really that's cool it's you know last couple spring breaks we've done that but it's such a weird business it's like and my my oldest daughter who's 20 has really loves acting and i'm like you know there's no jobs right there's just right you want to and And so I'm like, if you want to, you have to create your own job. and I'm like, you know there's no jobs, right? There's just, you want to, and so I'm like, if you want to,

you have to create your own job.

So I'm like, I'll pay for film school, but there's no, you know.

Right, it's not like it used to be.

Yeah, it's.

It is a tough thing because you can't walk around with that diploma

and sort of guarantee yourself at least an entry-level position.

It's so cruel.

But it's even different from it used to be like you talked about pilot season. Yeah, and commercials.
You could have been able to live on tour. Commercials.
You did commercials. Like when I was a young actor, I supported myself doing voiceovers.
I did a ton of voiceovers in and around New York. And then every year by about January for a few years, I would fly out to California.
But not every year. Sometimes I would go for like a month.
And sometimes, but you'd have pilot, at least pilots auditions a couple a day here in New York. And you do the circuit, right? You go to all the places and then they'd fly you out.
And there was like, there was a good chance once you kind of got in the mix, there was a good chance you'd get a job. You'd get a pilot.
And wasn't the Arrested Development year like the last year you were going to do this goddamn pilgrimage out to Los Angeles for pilot season? No, I got fired the year before, and I wasn't going to do it.

And I didn't audition for any pilot.

And Deb Borilski reached out and said, oh, come on, Will, please just put yourself on tape or something like that.

I was like, I'm not going to do the TV industry.

They're really going to feel the pain of me not being around. Wait till I show them.
I think Arrested Development. I tested for that.
Or maybe not a network test, but a studio test. What part? I think the David Cross one.
Yeah? Okay. But I think that...

Oh my God, that would have been great.

No, it's even worse than that.

It was...

Because there's also,

during pilot season,

there's like,

do you want to commit to this pilot?

Do you want them in first position?

Yes.

And I think I had been

offered a pilot

to be in first position.

And I was like, all right, fine. You know, Yeah, let's do that first position.
It was garbage. But I'm like, all right, fine.
I just want to act. And then, because I had worked with Mitch Hurwitz the year before on Ellen DeGeneres' sitcom.
And he's like, hey, why don't you come in and audition for this? Because I had been schmoozing him to get a part on it. Because obviously he's brilliant, right? Yeah, yeah.
And then he was like, yeah, you're in first position. And this is a low budget thing.
We can't have anyone in because we're going to do it. Oh, yeah.
Because remember, the premise was that they were going to do it in a different way. Oh, yeah.
Remember he wrote that cover letter on it? Yeah. If you want a dressing room larger than a honey wagon, this job's not for you.
Don't even bother auditioning. Mike Terry, who works on our show, whom you met, he sent me, his wife worked for Deb Barilski, I think it was.

Oh, yeah?

He sent me recently the list of people,

and my name's on it, of people who were sent,

because I eventually put myself on tape here in New York.

I was doing a play in New York,

and I was so bummed about being fired from this show the year before

that I was like, I'm not going to do another.

I'm done.

Fuck sitcoms.

I don't do that.

It's beneath me.

I kind of tried to flip it in my mind that I'm above it because I'd been fired. And anyway, so I went and I read for Deb Burrell's game.
But Mike just sent me, I've got it in my office at home. Wow.
Yeah, the sign-in sheet or whatever. Mitch sent me the videotape of my actual audition for Michael Bluth.
I've got it on my computer. Wow.
And that was the last day you ate, right? Like, that's why you stopped eating. Yeah, I've been swimming ever since.
I just look too puffy. Jim, I forgot that you were on that Ellen show with Mitch that year before.
I remember that. Yeah, yeah.
Martin Mull was on that show. That was so...
We loved Martin Mull. It was so...
I mean, he was such a sweet guy. Yeah, Martin Mull was so funny.
Yeah, such a sweet guy. And it was so bizarre to see this guy that I had watched on Fernwood Tonight.
Yeah, Fernwood Tonight was great. I mean, it was just...
And, you know, as this... I mean, I know I'm older than you guys, but, like, you have to understand that was this...
That was the bizarre, him and Fred Willard, that was my first exposure to bizarre comedy. And they did cutting-edge, super racy.
It was so clever because it was, I love that show. Well, also, I had no idea that Martin Mull was this brilliant painter.
He went to art school to be a painter, and then he would just tell stories about Steve Martin, which was amazing because, you know. Jason, is that a mull behind you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a mull right there. A mull.
I got this one cheap. Jim, tell me about, like, unusual jobs before you got all this work when you were starting.
I started off, well, I studied finance, but then- That's wild. You went to school for finance.
I was a copywriter in an advertising agency. Really? I think it was really helpful in learning some word economy and efficiency of writing.
But I was the weird guy in the corporate setting, like, Jim's crazy. He's napping in his room.
Meanwhile, I got like three hours of sleep the night before. But yeah, I was definitely the last of my friends to have a day job because I think the remnants of that retaining security had really stayed with me.
And I also knew that I didn't want to just do some horrible bar gigs. And I tried to limit some of the humiliation.
Do you keep up with financing? Is that still like kind of like a hobby of yours? I didn't really. I still, I don't know anything about finance and it's like i went to college and i even joke around about that in my uh news special it's like it's really sad i mean i have middle schoolers and i look at their math and i'm like are did they introduce new numbers because i don't know what's going on yeah and.
And also, if I looked at the Wall Street Journal financial section, I wouldn't know. And I probably passed a class in it.
Right. Got it.
But speaking of your special, it's called The Skinny. It's on Hulu right now.
Yes. Yes.
Oh, boy. So this is number 11.
This is the 11th special. Good Lord.
Isn't that amazing? That's crazy. pretty impressive yeah that's pretty cool thanks what did you say it's the 11th of 22 you've decided i'm only 22 years old he's only 22 years old where do you where do you see i mean what do you as a as a performer do you see yourself as you sort of get older that you want to keep making specials? Do you like the process of making specials? Or do you get a thing you're like, I just want to act more because the specials, I've kind of, I've done 11 of them and I don't.
Or does it, where does the fire live? It's all self-assignment, right? Like every aspect of this business, right? There's, like we have this notion that someone's sitting at a counter at a soda shop and someone comes up. It's like you have to steer it.
You have to sit there and go, I want to do this. But what I love about writing stand-up is that it's something I have control over.
So it's like, look, I would love it if I didn't have time to do it as much as I do. And I have turned down a fair amount of, I mean, I love just complex characters.
So if it's a good acting role, I'd love to do it. But like if it's, you know, some kind of silly comedy where I would have fun doing it, but it wouldn't be something great.
Yeah. You know, I try not to.
And also I have kids, so I have to be very selective on why I'm going out of town, meaning I got to make money. But I do a lot of indies where I make nothing.
Do you still go and jump on stage at the comedy salon and places like that? Absolutely. That's why we're still in New York City.
I mean, I wanted my kids to be New Yorkers, but also it's so great I can just go and do a show at Gotham, the New York Comedy Club, and then I can be home and, you know, try and tear the screens away from the kids, you know? Yeah, yeah. Your life sounds freaking perfect.
I want to come back as Jim Gaffigan. It's far from it, but thank you.
What's your favorite non-comedy or non-business thing? I know you love gardening. Yes, I do love gardening.
And where do you get a chance to do that downtown? During the pandemic, we got a place in Westchester. Oh, okay.
And they had some raised beds there, and I love that. But I love gardening.
During the pandemic, I got into bourbon. If I'm talking to three people in the entertainment industry, I assume two of you don't drink any longer.
So I was like a beer guy. And then during the pandemic, I kind of got into bourbon.
And then, I mean, we've all probably been approached. Maybe you guys have a celebrity spirit, but I didn't want to do that.

But I have a buddy from Louisville, and I was like, can't,

because some of them are just so bad.

So I was like, can't we just pick our own and do this?

And he's like, you might just end up with a bunch of barrels of,

a bunch of bottles of bourbon.

I'm like, that's fine.

So I'm doing that until I eventually join AA, I guess in three years. I don't know.
Turn to profit first. Yeah.
That's great. I was saying I went from beer and then I got into bourbon.
It's like saying, I used to do coke and then I got into crack because I was like, fuck it. Ketamine is great.
It's just a starting point. Well, they always say I'm drinking bourbon in the morning,

but it's actual apple juice on the rocks.

Oh, there you go.

Of course it is.

By the way, every step of the way, Jim,

Sean will out-Midwest you in every respect.

You can't believe how from the fucking...

Do you see how excited he was when he was like,

and you're from Oakmont, right?

Or wherever.

I'm from 20 minutes away from there. And we're always like, isn't that fucking crazy? People are from places.
I'm always fascinated that people get out of the place they live to pursue their dreams in other places. Sean, really quick, lunch today.
Sean, really quick, what's on the menu? Scottie, what's for lunch? Mac and cheese? He's chopping celery for the egg salad right now. Yeah.
What is it? I think it's going to be Kraft Mac and Cheese. So you can still eat like you're in third grade and you look great.
A little bit. He's got a cookie pouch.
Show him the cookie pouch. I got a cookie pouch.
There it is. Here it comes.
Oh, there you go. That's it.
That's my cookie pouch. No, I thought it was, growing up in the Midwest, I used to look around and be like, I mean, I know I wanted to be a farmer and everything, but like, I was like, oh, I think there's, I used to, oh, there's been a mistake.
I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supposed to be in New York.
And then I got to New York and I was like, oh, well, I'm finally home. And they're like, you're the most Midwestern-looking guy I've ever seen in my life.
So I realized how Midwestern I was when I left the Midwest. Because we look plain.
We look plain. We look plain.
We blend in. And it's a sexiness, right? Like when you think Midwestern, they think sexy.
You know, Tim Wall's sexy. Let's snap the overalls and let's get after it.
Sean be honest how long between now and when are you have you started looking at rascals online are you like what speed am I going to get yeah yeah are you just eating your way into a rascal right now is that the end goal you put special tires on that mags or anything spinners yeah Jim you're the greatest oh well thanks thanks for being here today it's as or anything, spinners. Yeah.
Jim, you're the greatest. Oh, well, thanks.
Thanks for being here today. It's such a funny deal.
Yeah, very nice of you to spend some time with us. I appreciate it.
We're all big fans of yours. Yeah, you're such a consistently.
Next steak dinner, you know, when I wait, you know, your table, please tip. You know what I mean? Some of it's for the bus boys.
And we'll act like we are. Will's going to pick it up next time.
Next, I'm going to pick it up all the time. Yeah.
Would you, if we're ever here in New York again, and we say, hey, we're going to go to Strip House, would you join us? I would totally do that. Okay.
I'd love to see a set at Gotham first. No, I love it.
Because there's certain excuses. Like when I go out with Seinfeld, I'm like, it's like Jerry wants me to have pizza.
And my wife's like, I understand.

But if I'm just, you know, hanging out, you know,

there has to be a reason behind it.

And you guys are, you know, very high status.

Wow.

Sure, yeah.

We're worth the cholesterol.

I love it.

Wow.

Jimmy, the skinny.

The skinny.

The skinny on Hulu.

Thanks for being here, pal.

We love you.

And thanks for making us laugh for so many, 75 years. Thanks, dude.
Yeah. Thanks, Jim.
Thanks, Jim. Bye.
See you, bud. Will, I think you look 12.
Okay? Thank you. That's my opinion.
I can't believe he said that. I really found it very hurtful.
And you know what? And he started, he kicked the door down with it, didn't he? Started right out with it. You know why?

I think he's got a crush on me.

Yeah, you are a little intimidated.

That's the way I got to frame it.

I'm proud of you for working right through that.

That could have wrecked the whole interview.

But no, you didn't let it happen.

I love that he doubled down on it.

He did over and over.

It's my kind of joke.

Gavin Newsom's It's my kind of joke. It's my kind of, I love it so much.
Gavin Newsom's dad. Gavin Newsom's dad.
Mr. Newsom.
Mr. Newsom.
Oh, he's doing a new sitcom called Mr. Newsom.
Yeah, you know, you should send your headshot to Lorne Michaels if Newsom makes a run at it on the next election cycle. I know.
He's one of when you watch him doing a special, like you said, Jason, he's so calm. He's not like a loud in your face kind of, right? Yeah, you see him, you just kind of start with a grin.
He doesn't even need to be talking yet. He's authentic, and he's such a nice guy, too.
Oh, my God. I love him.
He's so nice. Yeah, I love him.
Huge, huge fan. I'm glad we had him.
I'm trying to think of a buy. Okay.
And I looked up synonyms. Finally, seeing your honesty.
Finally, by the way, look at this photo that just got sent. Oh, my God.
Is that Ricky? Wait, so you looked up synonyms or cinnamon treats? I cut you off. What happened? I have two tabs open.
Okay. Cinnabons near me.
By the way, that sounds so good. Right? Yeah, I love that.
Well, just after your mac and cheese, you guys can jump in a cab.

Yeah,

I love mac and cheese.

So,

there's like,

there's via,

there's through,

there's across,

there's along,

there's near,

there's,

there's a beyond,

there's also a by.

Oh,

synonyms to by.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Like,

well,

but what you did is you spelt it wrong.

Oh,

I did spell it wrong.

The prompt needs to be B-Y-E.

I did spell it wrong. Oh my God.
be B-Y-E. I did spell it wrong.

Oh my God.

Okay.

Ready?

So there's adieu, adios,

arivadierci, arar, afi, there's cheerio.

No, but we need, sorry,

you're not understanding the concept.

You need to put the word bye into the bye.

We don't need a synonym.

Arivadierci is not going to help you get to a bye. Here's the thing.
We've been doing it so long. Yeah.
I want to blow my brains out. You want to blow your brains out.
Whatever we come up with, fine. But for our audience, we just got to make sure that they buy it.
Oh, man. That snuck up on me.
That was good. That was really good.
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