"Michael Keaton"

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Hey, guys. Will, really, your hair is really growing in there.

It's very long.

Sean, I'm going to go ahead and let you start again.

We need a little bit more enthusiasm when we're starting an episode.

Sorry, sorry.

Hey, Will's hair.

And welcome to an old new Smurlus.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart. Smart.
Less. Smart.
Less. You know, listener, every once in a while, Will and Sean and I have to have an adult conversation.
We have to do a little bit of a Zoom. We need to talk about scary legal things.
And we just had one of those before this record. And Sean got a real head full of steam going in his legal prowess and talking about, you know, how he looked through these documents and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And in walks an order of, presumably from an off-camera Scotty.

That's correct.

Two frosted strawberry Pop-Tarts

and a half a glass of milk.

That's right.

And he keeps talking in all his legal...

He starts choking on his fucking frosted Pop-Tart

offering legal advice to me and Will.

At one point he says to you, Justin,

he goes, with a mouthful of Pop-Tart, he goes, if you want to sign it to me, I love reading that stuff. And I go, you didn't even know the fucking document you were signing, Pop-Tart.
Yes, I did. Oh, man.
Jason just got back from vacation. How lovely.
I'm very lovely and relaxed. Will looks like he's been on vacation for six months.
He's got some new lighting in the Whisper booth there. And he's got a nice tan from his Long Island condo.
The light is great out here in the condo. And I was able to, you know, via the kindness of others, get out and play some golf.
So I've been and spent a lot of time with the kids out here. We've been out at the beach a lot.
Quick, what are their names? Terrence, Gladfield. Nope, that's right.
Karen. You don't even have a girl.
It's four boys. Okay.
Karen. Well, you caught me off guard.
How's everybody doing? I always feel like, Jason, we never get to see you anymore. I know.
Spend so long. Sean and I were FaceTiming last night.
We were like, we haven't seen, we never get to talk to Jason anymore. And even sometimes we do talk to him.
And then Sean was like, I know, but we never get to meet the real Jason anymore. You know what I mean? Well, he only goes out on Saturday nights.
I was talking about you guys on my break about the fact that you guys do talk all the time and we never talk. Well, you're working 15 hours a day.
No, but even when I'm not. You hate a Zoom.
And you hate a Zoom. No, it's not about the Zoom.
It's just, no, I'm just not. Why am I kind of a friend that that that like talks every day to his best friends i'll tell you why because you're always working and when you and when you and when you have downtime you just want to be by yourself which i get you guys are so good about do you have like i mean i know will you've got like a a nightly chat with with the great josh shotland yeah um and uh and and probably with sean Hayes.
I talk to a lot of people pretty much on the reg. I talk to Sean, not every night.
It's short for regular listener. It's short for regular.
Once a week, probably, twice a week, maybe. Yeah.
I talk to Clay every other day. I talk to Eli.
And Jason, I always text you first before we talk. But you know, it's one of those things.
You got to also do it. And it's like...
I know. You and Sweet Pete Giles would be great best friends because you guys like spending a lot of time alone.
We've got a bunch of dolls with pins. You sent me a nice picture from your trip with that bucket, that sweet-ass Sergio zucchini bucket hat that I bought you last year.

Yeah, and I showed you.

It was at good use.

And don't you have a collection of puppets that you play with, Jason?

Yeah, they talk to me all the time.

And you're also still really good friends with your gummies.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

I talk to them.

They never speak to me, but I'm speaking to them all the time.

Yeah. Can we please just give, I think the kids usually say a shout out to, a holla or whatever to our new host.
And they might holla back young. Yeah.
Of our podcast, Bad Dates. We have a new host, Joel Kim Booster.
He's hilarious. He's going to be guiding us through all the legendary and insane true Bad Dates stories the amazing guest reveal with all of their gory details you loved in season one.
Yeah, it sounds so natural when you say it like that. Yeah.
But no, this is our Smart List Media show called Bad Dates. Yeah, we love this show.
It was with Jamila Jamil and now it's with Joel Kim Booster and it's going to be just as great. And, you know, everybody has has bad dates.
Everybody can relate to them. Yeah, we can relate to them.
And so- And JKB is going to, he's going to, by the way, my same initials, fun fact. JKB.
He's going to walk you through it. Yeah.
So you can find new episodes anywhere you get your podcasts. Because, you know, we all know the worst dates make the best stories.
Ooh, we should, that should be a line. That should be a tagline on the show.
Yeah. Let's get some bumper stickers going.
I'm really excited. I'm almost as excited about that as I am about my guest.
My guest today. And you guys are going to be excited too.
Now, first of all, man, this is nuts. Uh-oh.
Because this is one of those people that I have, and I don't want to embarrass him, and he kind of knows it. I don't know, but I super look up to him, which is not the most articulate thing I've ever said, but it is just it.
I have been such a fan of what this guy does for so long, and there's an authenticity to who he is and how he does it that I've always just really responded to. And frankly, so have audiences around the world.
Millions. Well, I mean, look, he's been nominated for like 120 awards.
He's won 70 of them and everything. 70.
Yeah, like from Critics' Choice to Gotham Awards to Independent Spirit Awards to MTV Movie Awards to Satellite Awards, Saturn Awards, Teen Choice Awards, Film Critics Awards, Green Actors Guild Awards, Primetime Emmy Awards, Golden Globe Awards, and BAFTA Awards, and Academy Awards. Christian Bale.
The old school Academy Awards. He doesn't have 70 wins.
I mean, he's good, that guy, Christian Bale, but he doesn't have 70 wins. This guy, you don't remember him from his first television appearance, which was on Mr.
Rogers' Neighborhood way back in the day. I might.
You might remember him as co-starring with David Letterman on the Mary Tyler Moore Hour. You're more likely to remember him from things like Mr.
Mom, Gung Ho, Michael Keaton. I'm just saying Michael Keaton.

But to me, he is my Batman.

You guys, it's Michael Keaton.

Welcome to the show, Michael.

You've got sunglasses on.

Why do you have sunglasses on?

Sorry.

Because I'm pretentious.

Forget about that whole authentic thing. I had sunglasses on.
Now you're going to wipe it out. Yeah.
Well, this is interesting. Hello.
Thanks. Hi.
How are you? Welcome. The preamble.
It's obnoxious. I know.
No. It's too much.
First of all, I was going to be a smartass, but after Will being so sweet, now I can't be. No, you can't.
Oh, please do. Please be a smartass.
Oh, I can? Oh, okay. Please do.
I would think that if there's one area, one format, one show, one could be a smartass. This would be a title.
Welcome, yeah. Where are we finding you? Where's that pretty, pretty wall that looks like a cabin of some sort? This is, well, this is my home in Montana.
Well, this is the cabin of the property because the other house is being rebuilt. Did it burn down? Not down, but see? See, smartass.
I can't help it. You're going to have to bear with me.
Yeah, you threw something out there, and now it's hurtful. So, yeah, and this little house was reassembled from up the valley or down the valley, up the valley, many years ago.
But that's where I am. That's where I'm sitting.
That's so nice. But, you know, listen to the whole thing, how you guys do this.
I have so many questions. Sure, go ahead.
Go. Go show.
show. Hit us.
Do you validate personal? Do we do? It's stickers. It's one of your questions, why would anybody listen to you idiots? No.
No, no, no. We can't figure it out, you know.
Well, let me ask this. Yeah.
Yeah. You all have either adapted or you always had it.

You all now have like a radio voice.

Did you always have this radio voice?

We're learning from Will.

Will makes millions with those pipes.

Yeah, I did.

Give him a professional grade.

Seriously, Jason, you've got kind of a calm, groovy thing going.

It's gummy-induced.

Yeah, I have oil, however you get in there.

You got that.

However you get in there. Mine's just annoying in Chicago.
No, yours is very witty. Okay, well, there you go.
I'm coming to you in a minute. Here comes Will.
And Will just kind of, you know, I didn't know, I swear to God this is true, when I would see those Reese's commercials, I'd say, that dude's funny. I don't know.
I swear to God I didn't know who it was. There's a few people out there I'm looking at right now, and I watch these commercials.
I saw a guy the other day. He's so, I don't know who the hell he is.
He's so funny and so good in it. And I was reminded of how hard it is to crack open, to have people see you, to find a spot, you know.
With just your even. Yeah, no, seriously.
Okay, Sean,

I have a question for you.

Did you and I not many, many years ago

you were already nodding, right? We met

a long time ago because you were working for

a, no, no.

Don't embarrass him now.

He's about to give you, he's just olive ranching

and then you cut him off with the fucking many times?

What's wrong with you, Sean? He'll smile you right through the night. He'll smile you right through the night.
Go ahead, sorry. That's right, that's his superpower.
You used to work for, am I wrong, you used to work for like a catering company or something. Is this true when you were getting started? The very first year, I worked at a, I worked at a restaurant called Red.
And then part of that was to, you know, sometimes people would, oh, I'm doing a wedding. So I do like to make an extra hundred bucks, I would help out like.
Yes. Yeah.
And it was, yeah. And I met you at a party, didn't I? That's right, yes.
And I said, who's this funny guy? This guy's so witty. That was, that was.
Let's hear this. That was like over 30 years ago.
Yeah. What an impression.
And also, but I kept meeting you over and over, and Michael, we can cut this if you'd like, so don't worry. And I kept meeting you over and over because you used to date Julie Bowen.
For a minute? Yeah, yeah. For a minute.
It's great. Yeah, and I used to be friends with Julie Bowen, and then I would always run into you at parties.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at that hotel sunset.
Why cut it? Who would want to cut that? But by the way, by the way, why cut it? But also, you know what you could say, so that you don't have to cut it, say, and also we both know Julie Bowen. You could have said that.
Yeah. Okay.
Are you fucking new today, Sean? Yeah. The fuck is going on? You're going to hop up on Pop-Tart sugar.
Yeah. It's true.
I'm kind of flying. Jason's on a gummy.
I'm on a Pop-Tart. Sean got fired from that job, right, Sean?

You ate into their profits.

By the way, no.

Michael, who was it at?

I think it was at, who played Goose in the original?

What's his name?

Anthony Edwards.

Oh, Anthony Edwards.

It was at Anthony Edwards' house,

and he was having a wedding for somebody.

I don't know, but don't go deeper,

because you already know. But poor Julian of God's mind.
Michael Julie's in a bind. She's having to explain to somebody where she was.
She's just to say, yes, we did. That's what happened.
Yes, sir. Many years ago, somebody was saying, fucking Julie was, remember she wasn't around? It turns out she was hanging.
Jesus. No, but I must, I will say, every single time I ran into you, whether it was when I was around Julie or not, one of the nicest guys always, always, always.
Oh, well, thanks. Yeah, always.
And super funny and allowed me to be funny in front of you. You were very generous.
I like funny people. Michael, I don't know if you know this too.
Our mutual friend is Courtney Cox from years ago. Yeah, yeah.
And a good friend of ours. And Jason was just on vacation with her.
We were talking about it. And I remember saying to Courtney, I used to be, this is like 10 years ago and a good friend of ours and Jason was just on vacation with her we were talking about and I remember saying to Courtney I used to be this is like 10 years ago I go what's Michael Keane like I used to flip out because I was such a fan of yours for so long oh yeah still is probably still is still is and so I what I want to get into and that's going to get me my first thing which is two two things two movies that to me were like and they're not underrated because they were they were big hits but first of all mr mom to me was a genre changer right nobody done a movie like that you did it with such ease and the great part was it wasn't putting down a stay-at-home parent in fact it was pumping it up 100 and it was so

to me that was what was so interesting about it you know what i mean like because especially in

that those were different days back then but you did it in this way that kind of took that on

and flipped it on its head what was it like getting that reading that script getting that

offer deciding whether to do it shooting it all of it i've always loved that movie man

so i'm really glad you brought this up first of all and then let's get this out of the way

Thank you. reading that script, getting that offer, deciding whether to do it, shooting it, all of it.
I've always loved that movie, man. So I'm really glad you brought this up.
First of all, and let's get this out of the way because I kind of hate this part. I'm a giant fan of all three of you guys.
But here's why that's a really good question, and I'm glad you asked it. Because, you know, I'll sometimes when I'm doing, I don't do a lot of them, but I'm doing an interview or being interviewed or something.
I will actually volunteer Mr. Mom for a bunch of reasons.
A, it was ahead of its time. Yeah.
And how it came to be was, and it was John Hughes' first, yeah, I think it was the first script he sold. Wow.
And then he became John Hughes. Yeah, John Hughes wrote it.
And I sitting and he you know he was pitching me even didn't have to pitch it you know you guys all know will know this when you're reading a script in a comedy script and they don't the good ones don't come around very often no and you laugh out loud by yourself let's say two three four times a script you go whoa this that's huge yeah that's Am I right? That's huge. Yeah, 100%.
And you go, okay, there's- That's the number, too. It's only about two or three or four times, but it's like, that's amazing.
Yeah, because it is amazing. And the average layman, let's say, wouldn't know that, but that's how it works.
So I remember saying, I remember, actually, one thing he did, and it was an area that I generally don't laugh or find funny, was the baby had diarrhea. And my head went back.
I was in my head back so far, it hit the wall. In fact, my head hit the wall.
Because it was how it was presented, how it was set up, and where it came in the script, where he got me, where you were at that point. And I went, boom, right there.
That thing kills me right now. So I sat with him.
I said, I listened to him. He was not without an ego.
And I liked him. But I said, you should direct this thing.
You know how to make this movie. He said, no, I'm not going to direct.
He was a Chicago ad guy, you know. And so what i knew about it was a it was funny and i also liked kind of the time i i the reason i thought i couldn't do it was i looked like i was about 10 years old and i thought and then we had to kind of write that in because i thought okay let's say he married young and how do we really believe this because as you all you all three will know if you if you don't it can be as outrageous you know as funny as like jim carrey or the craziest guys are they're they set up their own reality right so once you it's like carson you say you know you buy the premise you buy the joke so if you set you go yeah that's crazy what he's doing but it's actually not crazy in his world in that that's right in that world yeah so i said how do we believe this guy how do we because that's the only other thing that's going to work and there was a lot of rewriting on the set i will say between me and my then manager partner harry columbie and and some other people it was a great cast and and so what i dug about it was a it was funny i liked playing a father because i like being a father i liked what it was about and it was ahead of its time in that at the time the u.s economy was not very good and it was hard and you know the unemployment was not great and and and the idea of a woman going out to the workforce as crazy as this sounds in whenever we shot that 80-something.
83? 83 was not that unusual, but it was fucking unusual by comparison, right? And I like the, you know, I have three sisters and a mom. Most people who work for me are women.
I didn't plan it that way. It's just how it is.
So I liked that whole setup and the premise, and I thought, okay, now how do we make, now let's just make this funny. So it was already funny, but there were things because the director, who was a talented guy, but he was not a comedy guy, we had to work on, let's say.
And there lot of rewriting going on and re as an example the whole chainsaw thing came about on the morning uh because as we were getting ready to do it there was there was no chainsaw scene there was no that didn't exist that he martin the great great late great martin moe yeah finally uh count comes in and says you know he's taking terry off i have so much to say about this because not enough credit is given to terry gar well i was gonna get my god i'm gonna get into terry gar in a second so yeah keep going okay i'll finish up sorry going on too long i love it but But so that scene was one thing, right?

But what I knew was I'll finish up. Sorry, going on too long.
No, I love it. But so that scene was one thing, right? But what I knew was I said, but how does this guy feel? You know, how insecure is he right now? And how emasculated is he right now? And when Martin walks in, just fucking cocksure, you know, just fucking beautifully played, looking so so brilliantly arrogant looking at me.
And I'm thinking, okay, what would this guy do? And he's panicked. He's not ready for this.
So I said to the prop guy, he'd get me like, I don't know, like he's pretending like he's working on the house, you know, like tools or something. And he goes, he shows me a chainsaw.
I go, yes. I said, run down, you have any of those goggles?

And I go, yeah, and he goes and gets the goggles.

And then

we just played it from there.

Obviously insecure, obviously scared to death.

Overcompensating. Overcompensating

out of his ass.

And then the 220

line was Martin's.

It was Martin's line. What was the line again?

You know, I said, yeah, we're probably going to rewire. I didn't know what I was talking about.
I said, yeah, we're probably going to rewire the whole thing. And that was the end of that.
And Martin said, you know what you should say? Martin says something like, how are you going to wire it? And I go, I don't know. He said, you should say, you know, 220, 221, whatever it takes.
That's Martin Maul's line. I keep telling people that.
That was not me. And by the way, you know, the movie you did before that night shift, I watched over and over and over.
Oh, my God. I love that movie.
And the one line that stuck out in my head, of course, is when you're like, we could just feed the tuna the mayonnaise so you don't have to get it open. And as a kid, I was like, that's such a genius idea.
Just feed the tuna fish the mayonnaise. That's such a genius idea.
You know, really, now that I was just listening to Michael talk, it strikes me that I'll bet you Michael Keaton is an enormous influence on your style. I mean, you actually remind me of one another.
That's a compliment to me, not to him. That's a compliment.
You're a compliment to me. Yeah, for sure.
You know what I mean? Unintentionally. Sorry.
I know, I know. Because, yeah, and I meant it when I said it.
It's a huge influence. And I want to get into, because then there were so many other films, too, that I thought deserved a lot of attention.
One of them being Clean and Sober, which I think is a phenomenal film. And not just because I could relate to what he went through, but I just think it's a great, with the great Emmett Walsh, I mean, there's just some amazing moments in that film.
But I do want to talk about Terry Garr for one second because I also loved Terry Garr. And what was that like? I mean, what an unbelievable talent, am I right? The spirit.
Oh, man. And who, you know, you look at all the really great, funny women.
There are so many now. And there were kind of, relatively speaking, so few then.
They didn't write the great parts of them back then, right? And, you know, look at Terry, man. She had everything.
She still has everything. She's so sweet.
I just love her. I think Catherine Hahn is like a modern-day Terry guard.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, and you look at, you know, she's witty and funny and feminine and masculine and all that stuff and just could, you has it and helped me.
You know, like you guys know, you can't do it on your own. You need somebody to set you up.
For sure. We'll be right back.
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While Hilton is always expected to have top-notch service, you'd be surprised at the unexpected places they're offering it now. They've partnered with AutoCamp, which offers insanely cool airstreams in iconic outdoor destinations.
Hilton also has an exclusive partnership with small luxury hotels of the world, providing Hilton Honors members access to luxury boutique hotels across the stay. And now, back to the show.
But Michael, your ability to find material or material find you and casts and directors that find you and you find like, your career is just like, I don't, and I don't want to embarrass you, but like Willie said, but your ability to jump from comedy to drama so seamlessly for so long, your run, your relevancy is just, it's been going for so long and continuing on this great escalating pitch that I hope you're as proud of as you deserve to be because you're just an incredible actor that knows how to make people laugh when you're playing a part and make people cry. Like you're not a comic.
You're not a, you know, like, so I just, I, can you talk a little bit about how,

I won't ask you to explain how you see yourself, but how do you, what attracts you to certain stuff? What's your goal, you know? Yeah, well, I will speak about it, but I kind of want to stop because that's just too good. I'll leave it at that.
Well, thank you, first of all. Just can't label you, you know, and that takes a lot of...
Yeah, okay, well, let's start with that. So, first of all, let's thank good fortune and all that.
I don't believe in luck. I've never believed in luck, but I believe in good fortune.
I do. I say, dude, I literally say the same.
Really? Because it's true. It's true.
I say I'm fortunate. I'm not lucky.
I'm fortunate. No, man.
You know why? You earned what you did. All three, a lot of us, we all earned it.
We were going our asses off to do it. There's a lot of talented people out there that, you know, luck plays a huge part of it.
Because if everybody who was talented got the jobs, there wouldn't be any left. You know, I mean, luck plays a big part of it.
So we're all appreciative of that. i'm grateful i'm grateful you know great yeah so so there was the only plan and by the way i'm breathing rarefied air right now i i realized that there's i don't know how many other guys there i saw jeff the other day bridges who lives over the mountain range here another one exactly like that yeah he you know i was saying you know there's there's not many of us doing this and i and i'm i want to keep doing it but i want to keep doing it i always wanted to do it how i wanted to do it i know that sounds arrogant and kind of selfish but i just i just knew i'd be happiest that way and so every time i had a television show that got canceled which was two of them three of them i guess i could not tell you how happy I was because I felt freer to move on to the next thing.
So if I had a strategy, and I don't know that it was a strategy, it was only this. Right after night shift, there were some things offered to me.
And when I think back, I go, wow, that took a fairly sizable set of balls. i said no i knew i wanted to do the mr mr mom and then there were a couple others that i thought i don't know might like all three of you i'm sure i would think you say but i really have a pretty big imagination and i've uh i'm curious about a lot of things and i'd like to play other things i'd like to explore things i'd like to see and if it doesn't work then i know at least i have this for a few years i can maybe grind out five six eight years of right being that guy right and i thought but i i think what will happen is people are going to get very bored very quickly with this kind of guy they saw in night shift, etc.
And so I said, well, then let me lay down something early and see if that works, because that will potentially open up a wider range for me. And I don't know if this is going to do it, but that was the only conscious thing.
The other is you just trust your gut and and so i made certain decisions early on i was told don't do clean and sober don't do pacific heights don't do a lot of things and i i said yeah but i want to do those things and i want to lay it down so i passed up certain movies that turned out to be great movies and i want to talk about them but but they turned out to be great things. And I probably, in retrospect, one or two of those probably should have, but I was fearful that, look, I always feel like, and this is my own, so I need to talk to somebody about this, because I always feel, man, if I'm in two movies a year, people are going to go, enough already.
We are so frigging sick of you. We just, like, enough.
And so I had that, and that's not a healthy thing. But I just wanted to lay down the potential possibility that, well, wait a minute now.
I don't know what to do with him. And the risk is, as you guys know, well, that could be dangerous.
And I just rolled the dice because I always bet on me. Don't ask me why, but I do.
But you also had this great combination between leading man and character actor. That's what I, for me, just as a consumer of you, a fan, you never really took the junk food, the the celebrity stuff you always were just playing an actor you were either a character actor or a leading man and sort of this great ratio between both and comedy and drama and then and then for my money like this incredible you know um validation and bird man but you know at a a moment where a filmmaker and an actor come together sort of in this incredible little recipe between the two that you wouldn't normally put together.
And then, like, I don't know, there's been a few combinations like that that was just so exciting to see that combination. And then, of course, the film itself and the concept of the film as well.
Just everything coming together and just a rocket ship. And it was so exciting for me to see.
Yeah, thanks. Just the story and the community and then also just the film itself.
Well, but also, Michael, as Jason sort of said, you kind of defied genre in that you couldn't be put in a thing. You got to be a movie star on your own terms, right? You got to kind of, you know, in a time where there really aren't really movie stars in that way anymore.
I mean, there are, but it's different. But you were in like the height of the movie star era, and yet you were able to of, think about it in that year, you were talking about like doing stuff you wanted to do.
In 1988, you did Beetlejuice and Clean and Sober. Yeah.
Now you want to talk about two movies on different ends of the stuff, exactly. Okay? And then the next year, you did the first film and we're going to get into Batman in a second.
Yeah. Because it's the one thing that I feel a real kinship with you about.
But you were part of a lot of firsts. Like Will's kind of saying, like Mr.
Mom, nobody was doing a comedy like that. You were the first one to do a comedy kind of like that.
Right. And then Beetlejuice and then Batman.
Like you were the first to do a lot of things. Is that something you look for like in scripts? Well, I was going to say, so you do that in that one year, you do Beetlejuice and Clean and Sober.
What was that year like for you? You made your agent look fantastic that year. Yeah, exactly.
And meanwhile, that's right. And at the time, that's not what happened.
As you guys know, it didn't happen that way. Tim sought me out because he sought me.
He said, I'd like to talk to that guy and and so yeah that you know and i will also credit uh elvis mitchell whom i'm actually going to speak with later uh and elvis ended up working for for me and my partner harry for a couple years because we we read this guy we thought he was we just dug what he was about and and liked, and he worked for us for a minute.

And I'll credit Elvis.

I don't think there was, I don't know what the award was.

It was either New York, I don't know what it was, New York Film Critics Award.

There was something, they didn't have an event, and Elvis kind of said,

excuse me, what Will just said, basically.

And then they said, okay, sure, we'll give it to him. And then I have somewhere a piece of paper or something.
But that didn't come via – that came from Tim asking about me, about wanting to meet me about beer juice through David Geffen. And the Clean and Sober thing came, and that was another thing that people said, you don't want to do that.
My agent literally at the time said, I don't think you should do that. And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure I should, just because I want to.
This is a really well-written script. You guys know this.
I mean, it's hard to find something that's, the writing will drive everything ultimately, right? Now, whether it comes together,

that's another story.

But so I'll run through this.

I'm sorry.

And so that in one year,

I didn't plan any of that.

That just happened.

I just said, man, this guy Tim Burton,

he is something.

I just, I don't know what he is.

I just know for sure he's something.

And when he tried to explain Bidu Jus to me, I said, they said, what'd you think? I said, I don't know for sure he's something and i he when he tried to explain beautiful juice to me i

said they said what'd you think i said i don't know what it is i don't know what it is i don't understand it and i but i like that guy and he said he wants to talk to you will you just give another one i go yeah all right i'll go meet him again and i go talk to him and i i said yeah well I'm still the same.

I still don't understand.

I say this about Tim, who I freaking love. I would say in his life, he is, you know, a declarative sentence, you know, with a subject, a verb, and, you know, and then a period at the end.
I'd say he's completed maybe eight declarative simple sentences. He just doesn't think like that.
He's not that guy. And so I'd meet him and I'd go, okay, I'm getting closer.
Then he said two things to me and I went, all right, I think this guy's worth it. So I said, give me a minute.
And I went home, and I started thinking about it.

And he said a couple things, and I asked for wardrobe from every period of time to go to my house. I was renting this house.
It was empty. I had no furniture.
And I just started handpicking stuff. And then I, there was something about, that I found kind of spooky and creepy about, like, bad teeth and a semi-broken nose and a walk.
And I said, what about, and then I just started going to work. And I said, you know what, there's something about this guy.
I really dig him. Fuck it.
I don't know. I don't know.
Does this work? And so that happened. And then Clean It Sober was just another script.
It wasn't like I said. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Okay. The character of Beetlejuice.
First of all, half the movie, you're in like old-timey prison garb. Right.
And you've got this fucking, and you've got like, you've got like mascara on that covers half your face. Yeah.
And your hair is sticking up and you've got this voice and you go, yeah, and you're like, yeah, say what you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you kind of, and you fucking, and I'm like, you want to talk about taking a big fucking swing? I mean, how do you go, how do you show up day one? Are they like, okay guys, let's rehearse. All right, we're going to block the scene and the mic and you come, I go, eh, say it to your daughter.
Like, what the fuck is going, what's this guy doing? I mean, it's a lot. And it fucking, you nailed, you drilled it in a way that you couldn't even.
Did you preview that for Tim before the first rehearsal? No, Will, that's very insightful, Will, because you're right. That's what, no, I didn't.
And that was the beauty of, and is the beauty of working with him. You're really just making stuff.
Like, let's go make stuff, you know? so so we talked and nobody was paying attention there was the budget was small and no one was paying attention and i and we were down in raleigh studios and oh my god and i said okay i don't know here's what's weird about this think of this we never tested it we never we never tested it i said I said, here's what I want to do. It's like he stuck his finger in a thing.
He starts here, and he goes up from there. It's never like there's no arc.
He goes from 10 to 15. Right, right.
And I said, and I don't know why, I don't have an actor's explanation for any of this shit. Like, the great thing about this thing is you never could say my character wouldn't do that.
Right, right, right. There are no rules.
There are no rules. The freedom was unbelievable.
So Will, that's insightful because I go, Tim had the suit the suit tim had the eyes tim had the pale makeup and he said something to me about he's from all different he appears out of time no you know in the 20s in the 18 there's no he's not connected any time or anything he might go underground for years until he's released so i said underground i said how about said, how about mold? Let's do some mold up the face, you know. And then I said, okay.
You know, the hair is like, it has to stick all the way out. But the striped suit was Tim's vision.
He started showing me pictures of all his stuff. And so on that day, when I showed up, I went, I don't know.
Here we go. And as soon as I walked on the first scene, you can see him, his eyes get big and he lights up and he goes, yes.
And then, you know, it's the ultimate yes and because he'd go, oh, I didn't know you were going to do that. Hold on a minute.
If you're going to do that, let me show you something. See, when you go up there, this is what that's going to be.
He had to explain to me what was gonna happen and i went oh i think i get it because of the visual effects yeah because the visual would happen later yeah yes yes yes and also fuck man dude you're out on i i love this so much i love the idea that you're out on a fucking ledge and you don't know where you're fucking going, that to me is my... And then give a shit.

And don't give...

That's my fucking dream

come true, man.

Yeah, I know.

It's so fun to talk

to you guys about this

because there's

three people who know,

kind of know

what I'm talking about.

But then you land it

into the most...

But then you go to

cleaning so much.

Exactly, which is the most

like no tricks,

no makeup,

no wardrobe.

It's just people talking

and being raw

and like I'm being honest. It's Mike Tyson walking in with trunks and two boxing gloves.
Yeah. How many people over the years have come up to you and told you that clean and sober had a profound effect on their life? Lots.
And, boy, that means something to me. You know, so I say this, and I don't care what people think.
I'm so blessed that I get to do some things that every once in a while that'll happen happen you know how many people have that job you know a lot of people would like that job i am i have that job that's why i did worth yeah that's why i did you know my life you know my life and you go you got to do these things if you got the opportunity you know you know you've been given this this you've been given this thing you know yeah i earned it I earned it, but I've been also given it. So if you can throw everybody a solid, fucking do it, you know.
Right, right. And then go make some money.
So speaking of which, speaking of making money, you go in 1989. You once again team up with Tim Burton and you do Batman.
Yeah. And that is the fucking game changer.
Yeah. That's the game changer of game changer.
And I mean, in a lot of ways, you doing that allowed me to make some money. Oh, yeah.
All right. So I guess I kind of fucking owe you, dude.
A little bit. A little bit.
A little bit. A little bit.
You did the first I Am Batman. By the way, I'll give you my business manager's address.
Just Venmo. Just do Venmo.
Yeah, just Venmo. Straight Venmo.
And Michael, I just got out of high school when that came out, when Batman came out. And I was like, wait, the guy from Night Shift that I've seen a million times in Mr.
Mom, he's Batman? And then I didn't... Take the look of your face again.
No, but wait. Hang on, wait for it.
And then you saw, I even saw the trailer. I was like, oh my God.
I can't. I mean, he nailed it in the trailer.
I remember seeing the poster for it. Do you remember seeing the poster, just the symbol of the Batman? And I was like, what? I was like, what the fuck is this? So I bought some credit to Tim for going, yeah, that guy.
And people went, what are you, out of your mind? And he went, no, that guy. So I don't think enough credit has been given to him.
Me, I went, you know, we had the meeting. He and I sat.
He said, take this home and read it. Tell me what you think.
And I remember where I was sitting, where the window was, and he and I were talking. And I said, well, so here's what I think, but nobody's going to do that.
And he went, that's exactly right. And so he had to go to them and say, no, that guy, and to his credit, boy, you know, he changed everything.
He changed everything. I could talk.
I mean, Marvel exists. All of it exists because of that movie, dude.
A lot of people made a lot of money off me and Tim and Jack. Sean has nutted over a thousand times to Marvel movies because of that movie.
Right? A thousand nuts. There's that.
You can't put a price on that. No, you can't put a price on that.
But it did. It launched the, you know, and ever since then, we've all been fucking under the tyranny of IP.
But, you know, but you did start that. Good way to put it.
And it was, I stole that from somebody. Yeah, no, you're right.
But it's true. But you guys started it, you and Tim Burton.
But you as the face, Tim is incredible, obviously, like you said.

Well,

and you kind of invented

the whole,

like Will just said,

like the whole thing,

like the tone

and the feel

and the look

and the everything.

Yeah,

there was humor to it,

but it was also serious

and there was action

and it was dark.

Yeah.

But you know,

Will,

there was very little humor in it.

And,

you know,

maybe we can't.

No,

but you had moments,

though,

as Bruce Wayne. No, I mean in the original script in the original oh really yes and so so you know maybe it's just an instinct but but there were scenes because even that man that pressure was on tim so big pressure was on all of us and you felt it every day you know you got studio in, you know, because this was a big swing for everybody.
But there wasn't, and I don't know if it's the instinct or not, you know, a gut feeling saying, well, wait a minute, you know, a lot of this kind of darkness. I mean, maybe not so much.
So as an example in that scene where the big long table where Vicki Vale comes over and I'm having a date and i'm so nervous you know and i go do i tell her do i not tell i can't let her know but i really like this woman and and she's sitting there she asked me about the room and i said tim you know what would be funny and there were a couple of these moments i said you know if he goes yeah yeah and then he realizes i don't think i've ever been in this room before you know what about the character you go who's this lonely guy rambling around the house yeah it's great sort of like high low of him yeah I love that kind of stuff that kind of awareness of it and not taking himself too seriously really in that moment because there's a way that that could come across as a dick.

And it wasn't.

You got to, you know, it all fell within the context of a guy who was really rich,

but his parents were murdered, but all that stuff, right?

Yeah.

And kind of a weird dude, you know?

A very weird dude.

You know, but you, what was it like when that movie came out?

And it was, as you said, it was a big swing for everybody, Big swing for you and your career. Big swing for Tim Burton.
Big swing for the studio. They put a lot of money into it.
The books have been written about this movie and how it got made, et cetera. And when that movie comes out and it's a fucking smash hit, how many high fives? Did you have to bandage your hand from the high fives?

Or was it the opposite? Was it, oh, this is going to be a level of exposure and responsibility now

that could change things and it might not be comfortable?

More of that.

Jason immediately looks at the negative.

Yeah, or was it that?

Oh, my God.

Now I'm obligated to go and say thank people for paying the money.

I have junkets I have to go to. Now all of a sudden, now I've got to talk to my business manager.
It's good news. Is it good news? It's good news for you.
Now, did you guys know the chemistry would work like Jason Brink? You know, everyone's all I need to do what he just did. Did you guys go, oh, fuck.
That's why we hired the guy. Just bring in a dark.

That's why we, yeah, bring him in.

Well, we've had the good fortune, guys,

I'm going to say, of being friends for 20 years.

So we knew.

Don't touch it.

Yeah, we have a good little dance.

It's like the guys on TBS, you know,

Charles Barkley and those guys.

Someone just needs to say to them, don't touch it.

Hey, right.

Don't touch it.

Just don't mess with them. I love those guys.
Yeah. We'll be right back.
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And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist.

And I've been going to therapy for a long time.

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H E L P. Dot com slash smartless.
And now back to the show. Um, but did you, you must've, was it just, was it not what Jason was saying? Did you feel that obligation? No, I was going there.
I liked that. Yeah.
You were thinking about the deal you'd already struck for the sequel. No, you woke up and you're like, did you buy a Ferrari? What the fuck did you do that next morning? Got a tattoo, a Batman tattoo.
You're like, I never even want a Ferrari, but I better fucking get one now. I don't even want one.
That's true. You know, I actually did investigate getting a Ferrari one time.
Yes. I actually did.
And I remember thinking, I'm too lazy for the amount of work and effort I'm going to have to put into this. You mean the clutch and the stick, right? Yeah.
Well, not that so much, but like where do I have to be careful? Where can I really drive it? Is this really worth it? You know, I'm blessed that I don't need a lot of stuff because I don't have

I'm just lucky that I don't need a lot of stuff.

I'm not so cool.

I just don't have an interest.

I love that you're thinking through the practicality

of a Ferrari.

There's nothing practical about it.

You can't valet it.

Is it good on ice?

All of a sudden I'm the least interesting

most unfun guy.

Oh, I don't know if this is practical.

I'm going to put my clubs.

There's no back seat.

Exactly.

I know you're really good.

But you must have been elated, and it must have felt like a good vindication.

Now, look, you'd had a lot of success before, but this was like a different thing, I bet.

I let myself enjoy it.

It was global.

You let yourself enjoy it.

Yeah, and also what Jason called the downer. Let's just refer him as a down.
No, and a little bit of that, say, whoa, this is a lot. You know, it's not, I don't love this kind of stuff.
You know, yeah, and sometimes knowing you, knowing who you are now and all your success with all of the unbelievable, your resume is just one of the most impressive ever. It really is.
It's just incredible. I always, you know, you don't think about, oh, well, that guy probably had, he had an audition.
Like, I just see you as a movie star. But when you're younger, you had an audition and start out, you know, just like all the rest of us.
And it's hard to imagine you walking into a room.

What made you, didn't you grow up in, where did you grow up?

Right outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

And so what got you to L.A.? Like, what made you want to do it?

Well, boy, we could go, let me make it.

We have 10 minutes left.

Okay.

For this one answer.

Okay, right. Yeah, I just shared a couple times.
What's your next question? No. I'm kidding.
I'm totally, we have an hour, whatever you want. I was this kid who, you know, started to get very interested in, I thought, could a person do this, you know? And yeah, because I come from so not that background except my funny family, my funny brothers and sisters and a big family and youngest.
So there's that, right? So when I went to school, I was curious because my friends and I were – the guys I hung with tightly and some young women at the time were funny. And I'd like to be around them.
And I knew what my taste was. And so I was not a theater kid.
However, I did take a couple of theater classes. So I was clearly curious about this.
And I was not very good, I don't think. I auditioned for a play.
I got a little role in a play in school. Didn't really do anything for me.
And then I dropped out of school to make some money to go back to school. And in the interim, I was doing this play in Pittsburgh, Sticks and Bones, and at the same time working at the PBS station where I do everything and everything.
And at the same time, while I was in school, I was really into the lampoon, and I was really into everything funny. And so I started writing, and I thought, I don't know if I can even do this other thing.
If I ever try it, maybe I could write this. You're just a kid trying to figure things out, right? Yeah.
So I said, well, I'm kind of liking this, and I just trusted myself. And I said, you know what? This is either going to happen or not happen.
So I started to go to New York, where I was about to move. And at the last minute, I went to California thinking I'd only stay there for the summer.
And I was writing, and I started performing stand-up and doing a play, and the stand-up thing worked in New York like that off the bat. I mean, when I say worked, it didn't work.
It worked in that I got asked back the first time I showed up, and that's a big deal. So that and i went i really love this because it was theater to get to the auditioning part so now i'm going to go to california and i'm going to do this real fast and i'm sleeping on floors like everybody else and crashing with buddies and working in restaurants and doing all the things parking cars doing everything everybody does the thing that turned it around in terms of the audition process was.
I was an okay auditioner, and I tell when young people ask me, I tell them this all the time, forget the want, I want, I need, forget, throw that out, you're fucked. You have the job.
The job is for the next 15 minutes, you're at work. Right.
The audition is the job. That's the gig.
Right. So you got to go to work today for 15 minutes.
Right. You know, it's excruciating.
It's a horrible setup for, you know, there's nothing good about it. But that was the, once I said, I'm not going to look at this like, I got to get this.
I turned the corner where I said, you know what, man, I feel pretty good today about what I did. So I'm just going to look at it like at 3.30 out at MTM Studios or wherever I was going to be.
Radford, yeah. Yeah, Radford.
I'm going to work. And so I thought, yep, get ready to go to work.
What a great approach. My job only lasted 20 minutes.
And then I went to my regular job. And I said, I don't know.
That's great. It freed me up.
Totally freed me up. Of course it did.
And I like the idea of also telling that to young actors because people, you know, they ask me for advice all the time and I always say, you know, fuck off. So now I have something that I can say I came up with.
Get that camera out of my face. Who the fuck? Who gave you? My parents know your parents.
Shut the fuck. No, but that is such great advice.
You know, I think the other thing is it kind of falls in the same line of like once you realize, once you get older and you've done a bit more in doing what we do, you start and you get to the other side and you have a chance to direct JB and produce stuff and whatever. You realize that they are looking to solve a problem, right? That they want somebody to want somebody to come in they want what you don't know is a young actor they're on your side they're on your side they want you to get this job because they because they got another character to cast yeah because once i figured that out i was like and i remember casting something you know with mitch and being like and people coming in and going oh fuck i hope this dude's good man not.
I used to think that they're like, show me. No.
We were like, fuck it up. This guy's great.
You guys are actors, so you're sympathetic. You know what that feels like, right? Yeah.
There's no merit in watching somebody go down. Oh, it's the worst.
No, there's no merit to it. Oh, it's the worst.
It's the fucking worst feeling. Wait, I want to talk about, because, you know, I wanted to.
But you did, I was just going to say, he was just talking about the auditioning shot, if you don't mind, just one second. Oh, yeah.
Made me think of another subject. No, I'm just kidding.
No,... No.
While we're on the subject, is that... Is that...
And you were talking about MTM. You did...
I wasn't kidding in my intro. You were on that two different iterations of the Mary Tyler...
One called Mary and the other called the Mary... Really? Mary Tyler Moore Hour? Is that what it was called or something? Yeah, yeah.
With Dave Letterman. With Letterman.
Wait, what? Letterman bailed after the first one, yeah.

I stuck around.

That's so funny.

And they were in the fucking cast together.

I didn't know that.

In 1978, Michael, is that right?

Wait, did you work with Jimmy Burroughs?

Jimmy Burroughs, wait, Jimmy Burroughs directed...

He directed Mary Tyler Moore.

Wait, Jason, you and I,

you know one of my favorite jobs ever,

I always really liked Gary Goldberg. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I always really liked him. Good guy.
And his wife, I remember Diana. Courtney actually was just singing his praises two days ago at the same time she was singing yours.
Huh. Yeah.
Well, he gave me this gig that was one of my favorite. I'll talk to you about that MTM thing.
But one of my favorite things I ever did was this character I did on. Tony Randall had a show for a minute.
He had a couple of shows, I guess. Many shows, probably.
But he had a thing called the Tony Randall Show. And Gary Goldberg hired me because he had seen me do something.
I think he gave me the job. have auditioned but uh night school it was called uh ed's night school i think and tony ramble taught law at a night school and i played this kind of dude you know and you know like kind of little dense which is always fun and hard to play like stupid is so will has no problem playing's my fucking, it's my right out of bed.
That's your sweet spot. Anyway, so I played this thing and as an aside, I learned as much about comedy from watching Tony Randall because he would kind of direct because he knew more than anybody anyway.
And his precision was so, and I was about, like I thought, no man, you know, freewheeling. His precision was so impressive that I remember going, whoa, pay attention to that.
You know, where and the how and the, you know, it was just really an education. So yeah, when I was doing that, and I apparently have forgotten the question.
Mary Tyler Moore, Grant Tinker. Mary Tyler Moore, so then that led to all that other stuff.
So Letterman bailed after the first. We all thought it was going to be a little something, and she was a wonderful lady, really liked her.
And the guys who were part of that group, who was Jay Tarsus and Tom, you know, those guys, they were part of it. So we went, well, their pedigree is really good.
And it wasn't quite what we thought it would be. And Dave bailed.
And I stuck around for the second iteration, which was so fun, man. I had a little, I could afford a Honda, a little Honda Civic.
And I could go, I remember driving work down to the MTM studios thinking, there's no way this could get better. There's no way my life could get better than this.
Yeah. And I was making, you remember, I mean, you go, look what you're making, you know, and it wasn't much.
And you go, are you kidding me? I have a little apartment that's relatively clean. Yeah.
You know, I got a car.

Oh, man, it's so fucking great.

You just hit something.

That sweet spot of that, you guys know too,

like when you get that first gig where you go like,

I'm fucking doing this.

I'm doing this.

And I'm getting paid and I'm doing this.

And I remember the first year of Will & Grace,

I was 27 years old.

I was like, I'll get fired next week, I'm sure. Sure, right.
But it doesn't matter the time. You were on Will and Grace.
That's what it is. Michael, I want to go back to the Beetlejuice 2.
Yeah. Looks incredible.
When you got, yeah, it looks amazing. When you got the, when you said yes to doing that, were you like, oh man.
And the first day in the makeup trailer, you're like, why did I put this, I gotta put the, why did I say yes? I gotta put the wig on, I gotta put the fucking dirt on my face, I gotta put the black circles, or were you like, no, this is awesome? It was, no, it was the second, it was like, this is awesome, because you have to understand, this is a long time in the making, but not so as you'd know it, right? Yeah, because everybody I knew for years were like, why don't they do a sequel? Why don't they do a sequel so finally it's here? Because you can't recreate what we made. You can't write it.
Imagine trying to write it when a lot of the writing just happened, you know? It wasn't on the page so much, even though some of it was and some of it was terrific and the world was terrific. You go, do that again.
You go, it doesn't work like that. Even in the most well-written, you could take Larry Gelbart or Neil Simon or any of the brilliant writers and try to duplicate Tootsie.
It would have never, you couldn't do it again. So imagine trying to do that.
So obviously we were never going to do it. Then for years I thought, don't touch that.
Leave that alone, man. That's a little piece.
You just leave that alone. Don't touch it.
But I liked it so much. And Tim and I worked so well together.
And I liked him so much that every once in a while I would go, what do you think? And the answer was, nah. And then it started getting more interesting to me.
And I suggested I'd like to do that again. And then time passed, and then I thought it was done.
So when it came around again, we'd see scripts now and then, and they just didn't work. And then these guys kind of got it and went, whoa, this could be good.
So Tim started talking to me about it. He had to finish something.
And so to answer your question, then you say, okay, I'm in. i'm in i had done a bunch i'd direct this movie and i'd act in another movie and another one and i was a little tired and i thought i would like another two months just to chill and kind of ramp it up and and i didn't get it and i thought fuck it let's go do it so we went to go make it and as i'm sitting in that makeup trailer that you mentioned i remember going this is really fun and i'm really excited and i'm nervous because i go can you can you pull this off again and can you do it because don't do it if you don't look stupid and not just for me don't fuck this thing up you know right and and so what hit me was i was sitting in the makeup trailer going, yeah, here we go.

That's right.

And trying to explain to the woman, nah, it's got a, not quite, you know, talking her through that.

And then we were getting there and getting ready to do it.

And about three days in, I went, there's something wrong and I don't know what's wrong.

There's something off.

It wasn't horrible.

Justin Theroux.

It's Justin Theroux.

He comes in with his sleeves on. He's so funny in this.
Dude, he's so funny in this. I don't buy it.
We'll wait and see. There's something wrong.
I'll be the judge. I'll be the judge.
All right. I love you.
So listen to this. So I'm sitting there, and I go, I don't know what this is.
And I'm sitting in the makeup trailer, and I'm going, yeah, this is fun. I'm having fun.
But what is bugging me? And I looked in the mirror, and I went I got it. I know what it is.
And I don't know about you guys, but I don't look at makeup anymore. I should go check more often in the monitor.
I know I've made huge errors by not. I don't look at things anymore.
Just go do it and I go home. I looked in the mirror and I went, I got it.
I know what it is. This thing we created came out of nowhere it just it just came out of this note when i looked in the mirror i saw toys i went this is fucked up i saw you know what i mean i saw little beater joist toys oh like like like it looked like you know what i mean it looked like yeah keychains and it looked like mugs and the commercial part of it that it had become.
All the merch. Yeah, and it wasn't that that's a bad thing.
It was, oh, that perception is, yeah, we've seen them because we've seen it on T-shirts. So did you change the look at all? That's interesting.
I didn't. I went, a little bit.
There was something with the hair that wasn't working. I went, nah, that never really looked like that and you're trying to like and then you go get that whatever it takes to get that out of your brain just go back to what made you even think of this friggin it's a derivative it's it's it's based on is it based on an impression i remember feeling that way with with writers on who would would go all of a sudden you'd read a script and they go and they'd have'd have your character do something.
And they're like, oh, they want me to do it basically because they saw me do this in other times. But they don't realize that in other times my character did that because it was organic to what was happening.
Now they just want to see the trick. They don't want to see what led up to the trick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you'll never do it as well.
Yeah, you'll never it as well how did you fix that michael how did you how did you make a friend psychologically you had to go wipe that out of your brain take it out of your brain find a new version of them yeah yeah no you know when you go on set go what what was the thing originally yeah we're you know what was this was this thing originally just go be that make it yours again yeah make it yours again make it like how did we come up with this crazy thing and what was hard about that was there were certain things in this look man i'm on record as saying how good this thing is i'm not going to go on and on it's so good but yeah i can't wait when i go on the set there were things in the script shows you how smart i am that i remember reading the script go oh this this could this could work i go I don't know about that. Tim likes that idea.

I don't think that idea is good.

Three of them.

I was wrong on all three.

I was wrong about it.

I was dead wrong.

When I saw it, I went.

He's just a remarkable filmmaker.

I mean, the thing, he's never done anything easy.

Not once.

No, no, no.

Edward Scissorhands, you know.

Yeah.

Incredible.

His degree of difficulty that he takes on and just drills it every single time. Yeah.
I don't feel like... Except for Carol Nail Clipper Feet.
Do you think... Which was underrated, but...
Which was... So do you guys do...
So you do this, and you've gone on the record saying it's going to be great. I mean, that is a lot of pressure, right? Yeah.
You have this thing, this iconic thing that you guys create, and you're like, I'm sure when you're reading it or you're doing it, you're thinking like, fuck, man, if we don't drill this, we got a target on our fucking back. People are going to come for us.
Yeah, honestly, I didn't like. But it's team sports, right? You don't really take.
It's team sports. Do you take it on individually? No, right? I mean, don't you sort of— Do you get that sense when you're working on something that we're all kind of rowing in the same direction and that it's not really on you? Because you— If you're healthy, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Do you find yourself in that position as often as you want to mentally? Good question.
Yeah, mostly, I think. I think there's a part of me, and honestly, I'm not being humble here.
There's a part of me that's just plain stupid, I think. There's a part of me that just goes, I don't know.
I don't think of some of these things other people think, and I don't know what that comes from, but I just don't. Sometimes I do, and I certainly was nervous about going back into it, only to say, can I do this? Not just do it and get through it, but go, can you get there? Because it's deserving of you being good.
You need to be good. And in terms of me talking about it, I'll tell you, when I say I don't care what anybody else thinks of it, I'm willing to say what I think about it because this is just how I feel about it.

There's movies I've seen and you guys have seen

that people have hated and I went,

not me, I love this movie.

Or other movies where you go,

I don't get what people are raving about.

Me, I don't care.

Every person I've ever run into for the rest of my life

could say, boy, that second beat would just really suck.

I'd go, not to me.

Yeah.

I mean, it has so many elements.

It's so beautiful, first of all.

Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you for wanting to have people know what that is. It's based on a true story.
It's a true story of Beetlejuice, the character who goes across centuries. You know what it is? It's licensed just to go out and be silly.
It's just licensed. I love that.
I love that. I love it.
Oh, man. Well, look, like we say, we've taken up too much of your time.

I could talk to you forever, man. Way too much.

Like an hour.

Way too long.

I know, I know, I know.

Yeah, really.

And we just, what a thrill to have you, man, on the show.

You're just, I just loved it.

Like Jason said, that you're still doing it,

that you're still rising.

You're still doing incredible stuff.

You keep surprising us and mixing up.

And might I add that you look fucking fantastic. Yeah, you do.
Yeah, you look great. Look at you.
I haven't seen you in 30 years. You don't sound crazy.
I hope I'm not crazy ever, you know what I mean? You're kind, you're appreciative. You've done it all.
And I mean that in the best way because you've done it all and you've got your fucking feet on the ground. Let me ask you a question.
If I would do this show every day, would I get this? Yeah, no, not really. No, you would not.
It's usually just once. You would not.
That's a fucking good question, by the way. That's a good question.
That's really funny. No, we'd turn on you pretty quick.
I like the read, Jason. It wasn't mean.
I'm being honest. Not probably.
It wasn't just the one. We turn on each other.

It doesn't take much for us to turn on each other.

Yeah, immediately we'd put you right in the stew.

You'd get it as hard as we do.

Yeah.

But what a thrill, man.

It was so great to talk to you.

And Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, man, I'm excited.

Yeah.

All right.

Thanks, Michael.

Thanks, guys.

Come on back out of Montana and come hang out with us.

All right.

Thank you. Honestly, it was really fun.
Thank you. Thanks, man.
Good to see you, Michael. All right, brother.
Thank you, buddy. Bye.
You've been stealing Michael Keaton's shit for years. I know.
I didn't want to embarrass him as well because, and I've, you know, got to know him just to say hello over the last five, six years or something. We'd see each other and stuff.
You know where I always talk to him, JB? Conan's Christmas party. Oh, you know.
It's true. I do.
You're going to get invited this year again. Don't you ever mention his name to me.
And I always talk to him about stuff, and I always tell him how much. And he's a big hockey fan.
He's a big Penguins fan. So we talk hockey, and then last year he was really kind to me.

He said something really nice about me on Colbert,

which was a fucking thrill of a lifetime.

But anyway, so we, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I just love the way he does it,

and it's the only impression I've ever done,

and I don't want to, and he doesn't know this, is of him, but it's an impression of him from Gung Ho.

Uh-huh.

We didn't talk about that.

I go, they're coming, the Japanese,

they bought the car plant?

That's really good.

Listener, if you could see it. If you could see it.
If you could see it, it's good. You'd say.
It's really good. Close.
Close. Yeah.
Yeah, I've just been such a fan of his. And like you, I mean, Jay, you pointed out, I mean, he does seamlessly between comedy and drama and absurdism and just everything.
Yeah, and I like what you said. My life, have you ever watched my life? No.
I think I probably have. It's a fucking, it's so great and sad, and oh my God, so good.
Anyway. What do you say, Jay? Well, just that he's reached such an enormous height of success and relevance, yet he can still go to the market.
Yeah. And he can still get a movie financed.
Yes. Like, that's really hard to...
I don't know if he could. Yeah, he could.
He could go to the market for sure, because he's not a celebrity. He's just a really, really well-respected, very famous actor that can do anything, and people go to see him.
Yeah, and I like what you said, Jason, about the, you can't really nail him down. Like, you can't, or maybe you said it well, that you can't...
You can't label him. Yeah, you can't label him, right.
I love that. That's so true.
By the way, that movie, My Life, is about a guy who's going to die and his son's going to be born. It's with Nicole Kidman, I think, and he leaves videos for his son because he's not going to meet him.
Oh, jeez. And how to live his life, what to do and how to do stuff.
If you're looking to get rid of any tears, I guess you just dial that up. I wish I could hug you guys right now.
Yeah. Dump some.
Hey, on that ranch that he was living on, do you think there were a lot of animals around there? Like, what kind of animals do you have? Hang on, I hope your fucking mic cuts out. I hope the electricity goes out of your house, right? Wait, no, like, there's probably, and there's probably like bigger cows and like chickens.
You mean like some bison? Bison! Bye. Bye.
Smart. Yes.
Smart. Yes.
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