"Michael Keaton"

Speaker 1 AutoTrader is powered by Auto Intelligence. Their tools sync with your exact budget and preferences to tailor the entire car shopping experience to you.

Speaker 1 Want a pink mid-size SUV with 22-inch rims and a V8? They got it. Nothing's too specific.

Speaker 1 Find your dream car at the right price in no time because AutoTrader, powered by Auto Intelligence, puts you in control of the whole experience from search to close it's the totally you way to buy a car visit auto trader.com to find your perfect ride

Speaker 1 nobody wants to spend the holiday season clicking from one site to the next to get their hands on the best brands But who knew Walmart has the top brands we all love?

Speaker 1 Like the big names that your friends and family actually want and all in one place. Nespresso, Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it.
Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart.

Speaker 1 Who knew? Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season.

Speaker 1 Hey guys, Will, really, your hair is really growing in there. It's very long.

Speaker 2 Sean, I'm going to go ahead and let you start again. We need a little bit more enthusiasm when we're starting an episode.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 hey, Will's hair.

Speaker 1 And welcome to None of the Smirless. Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 2 You know, listener, every once in a while, Will and Sean and I have to have an adult conversation. We have to do a little bit of a Zoom.
We need to talk about scary legal things.

Speaker 2 And we just had one of those before this record.

Speaker 2 And Sean got a real head full of steam going in his legal prowess

Speaker 2 and talking about, you know, how he looked through these documents and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And

Speaker 2 in walks an order of,

Speaker 2 presumably from an off-camera Scotty,

Speaker 2 two frosted strawberry Pop-Tarts and a half a glass of milk. That's right.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he keeps talking and all his legal points. He starts choking on his fucking frosted Pop-Tart, offering legal advice.

Speaker 1 Jason asks you to do that.

Speaker 1 At one point he says to you, Jason, he goes with a mouthful of Pop-Tart. He goes, If you want to sign it, Jamie, I love doing that.

Speaker 1 And I go, you didn't even know the fucking document you were signing, Pop-Tart.

Speaker 1 Yes, I did.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Jason just got back from vacation. How lovely.

Speaker 2 I'm very lovely and relaxed.

Speaker 2 Will looks like he's been on vacation for six months.

Speaker 2 He's got some new lighting in the Whisper booth there. I know.
And he's got a nice tan from his Long Island

Speaker 2 condo.

Speaker 1 The light is great out here in the condo. And I was able to,

Speaker 1 you know, via the kindness of others, get out and play some golf. So I've been and spent a lot of time with the kids out here.
We've been out at the beach a lot.

Speaker 2 Quick, what are their names

Speaker 1 Terrence Gladfill

Speaker 1 Karen

Speaker 1 you don't even have a girl it's four boys okay

Speaker 1 Karen well you caught me off guard how's everybody doing I I always feel like Jason,

Speaker 1 we never get to see you anymore. I know.
I know, Jason.

Speaker 1 Sean and I were FaceTiming last night. We were like, we haven't seen, we never get to talk to Jason anymore.
And even sometimes we do talk to him.

Speaker 1 And then Sean was like, yeah, no, but we never get to meet the real Jason anymore. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Well, he only goes out on Saturday nights.

Speaker 2 I was talking about you guys on my break about the fact that you guys do talk all the time and we never talk.

Speaker 1 Well, you're working 15 hours a day.

Speaker 2 No, but even when I'm not.

Speaker 1 And you hate his Zoom. No, it's not about you.
It's just, no, I'm just not.

Speaker 2 Why am I not that kind of a friend that like talks every day to his best friends?

Speaker 1 I'll tell you why. Because you're always working

Speaker 1 and when you have downtime, you just want to be by yourself, which I get.

Speaker 2 You guys are so good about, do you have like, I mean, I know, Will, you've got like a

Speaker 2 nightly chat with the great Josh Shotland. Yeah.
Um,

Speaker 2 and, uh, and, and probably with Sean P.

Speaker 1 Hayes. I talk to a lot of people pretty much on the reg.
I talk to Sean, not every night. It's short for regular listeners.
It's short for regular.

Speaker 1 Once a week, probably, twice a week, maybe. Yeah.
I talk to Clay usually every other day. I talk to Eli.
And Jason, I always, I always text, text you first first before we talk.

Speaker 1 But you know, it's one of those things, you got to also do it. And it's like, I know.

Speaker 1 You and Sweet Pete Giles would be great best friends because you guys like spending a lot of time alone.

Speaker 1 And, you know.

Speaker 2 We've got a bunch of dolls with pins.

Speaker 1 You sent me a nice picture from your trip with that bucket, that sweet-ass Sergio Tacini bucket hat that I bought you last time.

Speaker 2 And I showed you it. Was it good use?

Speaker 1 And don't you have a collection of puppets that you play with, Jason?

Speaker 2 Yeah, they talk to me all the time.

Speaker 1 And you're also still really good friends with your gummies. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I talk to them.

Speaker 2 They never speak to me, but I'm speaking to them all the time.

Speaker 2 Can we please just give, I think the kids usually say a shout out to a holla or whatever to our new host.

Speaker 1 And they might holla back, young. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Of

Speaker 2 our podcast, Bad Dates. We have a new host, Joel Kim Booster.

Speaker 1 He's hilarious.

Speaker 2 He's going to be guiding us through all the legendary and insane, true, bad date stories the amazing guests reveal with all of their gory details you loved in season one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it sounds so natural when you say it like that. Yeah.
But no, this is our smartless media show called Bad Dates.

Speaker 1 We love this show. It was with Jamila Jamil, and now it's with Joel Kim Booster, and it's going to be just as great.
And, you know, everybody has bad dates, everybody can relate to them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we can relate to them.

Speaker 2 And so JKB is going to, he's going to, by the way, my same initials. Yeah.
Fun fact. JKB.
He's going to walk you through it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you can find new episodes and where you get your podcast

Speaker 1 because, you know, we all know the worst dates. Make the best stories.

Speaker 2 Ooh, we should, that should be a line. That should be a tagline on the show.

Speaker 1 Let's get some coffee sticks. I'm really excited.

Speaker 1 I'm almost as excited about that as I am about my guest.

Speaker 1 My guest today.

Speaker 1 You guys are going to be excited too. Now, first of all,

Speaker 1 man, this is nuts. Uh-oh.
Because this is one of those people that I have, and I don't want to embarrass him, and he kind of knows that I don't know,

Speaker 1 but I super look up to him,

Speaker 1 which is not the most articulate thing I've ever said, but it is just it.

Speaker 1 I have been such a fan of what this guy does for so long, and there's an authenticity to who he is and how he does it that I've always just really responded to. And frankly, so have

Speaker 1 audience

Speaker 1 around the world.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, look, he's been nominated

Speaker 1 for 120 awards. He's won 70 of them and everything.

Speaker 2 70.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like from Critics Choice to Gotham Awards to Independent Spirit Awards to MTV Movie Awards.
That's what's an action.

Speaker 1 To satellite awards, Saturn Awards, Team Choice Awards, Film Critics Awards, Green Actor Awards. Team Choice Awards.

Speaker 1 Primetime Emmy Awards, Golden Globe Awards, and BAFTA Awards and Academy.

Speaker 1 Awards.

Speaker 1 The old school Academy Awards. He doesn't have 70 wins.
I mean, he's good, that guy, but Christian Bill, but he doesn't have 70 wins.

Speaker 1 This guy, yeah, this guy, you don't remember him from his first television appearance, which was on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood way back in the way.
I might in the day.

Speaker 1 What you might remember him as co-starring with David Letterman on the Mary Tyler Moore hour. You're more likely to remember him from things like Mr.
Mom, Gung-Ho, Michael Keaton.

Speaker 1 But to me,

Speaker 1 he is my Batman. You guys, it's Michael Keaton.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 There you go. Michael.

Speaker 1 You've got sunglasses on. Why do you have sunglasses on? Sorry.

Speaker 1 Because I'm pretentious.

Speaker 3 Forget about that whole authentic thing I had sung about.

Speaker 1 Now you're going to wipe it out. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, this is interesting.

Speaker 1 Hello. Thanks.
Hi, how are you? You know,

Speaker 3 the preamble.

Speaker 2 It's obnoxious. I know.

Speaker 3 No, no. First of all, I was going to be a smartass, but after Will being so sweet, now I can't be.

Speaker 1 No, you can't. Please.

Speaker 3 Please be a smart ass. Oh, I can't? Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I would think that if there's one area, one format, one show where one could be a smart ass, this

Speaker 1 would be half the hospital. Welcome, yeah.

Speaker 2 Where are we finding you? Where's that pretty, pretty wall that looks like a cabin of some sort?

Speaker 3 This is,

Speaker 3 well, this is my home in Montana. Well, this is the cabin

Speaker 3 of the property because the other house is being rebuilt.

Speaker 1 Did it burn down?

Speaker 1 Not down, but see, see what?

Speaker 3 See, smartass?

Speaker 1 I can't help it. You're going to have to bear with me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you threw something out there, and now it's hurtful.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, and this little house was reassembled from

Speaker 3 up the valley or down the valley, up the valley,

Speaker 3 many years ago. But that's where I am.
That's where I'm sitting.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 3 But, you know, listen to the whole thing,

Speaker 3 how you guys do this. I have so many questions.

Speaker 1 Sure, go go about the whole show. Hit us.

Speaker 3 Do you validate personally?

Speaker 1 We do.

Speaker 1 It's stickers.

Speaker 1 Because one of your questions, why would anybody listen to you, idiots?

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 2 We can't figure it out.

Speaker 1 Well, let me ask this.

Speaker 3 You all have either adapted or

Speaker 3 you always had it.

Speaker 3 You all now have like a radio voice. Did you always have this radio voice?

Speaker 1 We're learning from Will.

Speaker 2 Will makes millions with those pipes.

Speaker 1 I didn't have those professionals.

Speaker 3 Seriously, Jason, you've got kind of a calm, groovy thing going, you know, like you're laid back.

Speaker 2 It's gummy and dude.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I have however you're getting there. You've got that thing.

Speaker 1 Mine's just annoying in Chicago. No, yours are very witty.
Oh, okay. I'll come to you in a minute.
Here comes Will.

Speaker 3 And Will just kind of, you know, I didn't know, I swear to God, this is true.

Speaker 1 When I would see those Reese's commercials, I'd say, that dude's funny.

Speaker 3 I don't know who. I swear to God,

Speaker 3 I didn't know who it was. There's a few people out there I'm looking at right now, and I saw, I watch these commercials, I saw a guy the other day.

Speaker 3 He's so, I don't know who the hell he is, he's so funny and so good in it. And I was, you know, you're reminded of how hard it is to crack open, to have people see you, to find a spot, you know, and

Speaker 1 with just your voice.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, seriously. Okay, Sean, I have a question for you.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 Did you and I not

Speaker 3 many, many years ago, you're already nodding, nodding, right? We met a long time ago because we've been working for a note.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 because you used many times now. And by the way, he's about to give you, he's just olive branching, and then you cut him off with the fucking manicote.

Speaker 1 What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 He'll smile you right through the night.

Speaker 1 He'll smile you right through.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 1 That's his superpower.

Speaker 3 You used to work for, am I wrong, you used to work for

Speaker 3 a catering company or something. Is this true when you were getting started?

Speaker 1 When I first moved, the very first year, I worked at a restaurant called Red. And then part of that was to, you know, sometimes people would, oh, I'm doing a wedding.

Speaker 1 So I do like, to make an extra hundred bucks, I would help out. Like, yes.
Yeah. And it was, yeah.

Speaker 3 And I met you at a party, didn't I?

Speaker 1 Right, yes.

Speaker 3 And I said, who's this funny guy?

Speaker 1 This guy's so witty. And that was, that was.

Speaker 1 That was like over 30 years ago. Yeah.
And, and an impression.

Speaker 1 And also, but I kept meeting you over and over. And Michael, we can cut this if you'd like, so don't worry.
Anyway, I kept meeting you over and over because you used to date Julie Bowen.

Speaker 3 For a minute, yeah, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I used to be friends with Julie Bowen, and then I would always run into you at parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And at that whole time, why cut it? Who would want to do that?

Speaker 1 By the way, by the way, why cut it? But also, you know what you could say so that you don't have to cut it. Say, and also we both know Julie Bowen.
You could have said that.

Speaker 1 Are you fucking new today, Sean? Yeah. No, Hopsart want Pop-Tart sugar.
Yeah. That's true.
Kind of flying. Jason's on a gummy.
I'm on a Pop-Tart. Sean got fired from that job, right, Sean?

Speaker 1 You ate into their profits? And by the way, no,

Speaker 1 Michael was

Speaker 1 it at? I think it was at,

Speaker 1 who played Goose in the original? What's his name? Anthony Edwards. Oh, Anthony Anthony Edwards.
It was at Anthony Edwards' house, and he was having a wedding for somebody.

Speaker 1 I don't know, but don't go deeper. Because

Speaker 1 you already know

Speaker 3 of poor Julie.

Speaker 1 Michael never minds. Now Julie's in a mind.
She's having to explain to somebody

Speaker 3 just to say, yes, we did. That's what I was doing.

Speaker 1 70 years ago, somebody's saying, fucking Julie was, remember she wasn't around. It turns out she was hanging.

Speaker 1 Jesus. No, but you, but I must, I will say, every single time I ran into you, whether it was when I was around Julie or not, one of the nicest guys, always, always, always.
Oh, wow. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, always. And super funny and allowed me to be funny in front of you.
You're very funny. I like funny people.
Michael, I don't know if you know this too.

Speaker 1 And our mutual friend is Courtney Cox from years ago. And a good friend of ours, and Jason was just on vacation with her.

Speaker 1 We were talking about, and I remember saying to Courtney, I used to be, this is like 10 years ago, I go,

Speaker 1 what's Michael Keene like?

Speaker 1 I used to flip out because I was such a fan of yours for so long.

Speaker 2 She still is. Probably still is.

Speaker 1 Still is. And so what I want to get into, and that's going to get me to my first thing, which is

Speaker 1 two things. Two movies that to me were like, and they're not underrated because they were big hits.
But first of all, Mr. Mom, to me,

Speaker 1 was a genre changer, right? Nobody done a movie like that. And you did it with such ease.
And the great part was it wasn't putting down a stay-at-home parent. In fact, it was pumping it up.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 1 And it was so, to me, that was what was so interesting about it. You know what I mean? Like, because especially in that time, those were different days back then.

Speaker 1 But you did it in this way that kind of took that on and flipped it on its head.

Speaker 1 What was it like getting that, reading that script, getting that offer, deciding whether to do it, shooting it, all of it? I've always loved that movie, man.

Speaker 3 So I'm really glad you brought this up. First of all, and let's get this out of the way because I kind of hate this part.
I'm a giant fan of all three of you guys.

Speaker 3 But here's why that's a really good question. And I'm glad you asked it.
Because, you know, I'll sometimes, when I'm doing,

Speaker 3 I don't do a lot of them, but I'm doing an interview or being interviewed or something.

Speaker 3 I will actually volunteer Mr. Mom for a bunch of reasons.
A, it was ahead of its time.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And and and how it came to be was and it was john hughes's first um

Speaker 3 yeah i think it was the first script he sold wow and then he became john hughes yeah john hughes wrote it and i was sitting and he you know he was pitching me even didn't have to pitch it you know you guys all know will know this when you're reading a script in a comedy script and they don't the good ones don't come around very often No.

Speaker 3 And you laugh out loud by yourself, let's say, two, three, four times a script, you go, whoa, that's huge.

Speaker 3 Am I right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's huge. 100%.
And you know what?

Speaker 2 That's the number, too. It's only about two or three or four times.
But it's like that's amazing.

Speaker 3 It is amazing. And the average layman, let's say, wouldn't know that.
But that's how it works.

Speaker 3 So I remember saying, I remember actually one thing he did, and it was an area that I generally don't laugh or find funny. was that the baby had had it had diarrhea.
And my head went back.

Speaker 3 My head went back so far, it hit the wall.

Speaker 3 In fact, my head hit the wall, I thought, because it was how it was presented, how it was set up, and where it came in the script, you know, where he got me, you know, where you were at that point.

Speaker 3 And I went, boom, right there. That thing kills me right now.
So I sat with him. I said, he listened to him.
He was not without an ego. And I liked him, but I said, you should direct this thing.

Speaker 3 You know how to make this movie. He said, no, I'm not going to direct.
He was a Chicago ad exec guy you know and um

Speaker 3 so what i knew about it was a it was funny and i also liked kind of the time i i the reason i thought i couldn't do it was i looked like i was about 10 years old and and i thought and then we had to kind of write that in because i thought okay let's say he married young

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 How do we really believe this? Because as you all three will know, if you don't, it can be as outrageous, you know, as funny as like Jim Carrey or the craziest guys are,

Speaker 3 they set up their own reality, right? So once you, it's like Carson, you say, you know, you buy the premise, you buy the joke. So you set,

Speaker 3 you go, yeah, that's crazy what he's doing, but it's actually not crazy in his world.

Speaker 3 That's right, in that world.

Speaker 3 So I said, how do we believe this guy? How do we, because that's the only way this thing is going to work. And there was a lot of rewriting on the set, I will say,

Speaker 3 between me and my then manager partner Harry Columbie and some other people. It was a great cast.

Speaker 3 And so what I dug about it was, A, it was funny. I liked playing a father because I liked being a father.
I liked what it was about. And it was ahead of its time in that at the time,

Speaker 3 the U.S. economy was not very good.
And it was hard, you know,

Speaker 3 the unemployment was not great.

Speaker 3 And the idea of a woman

Speaker 3 going out to the workforce, as crazy as this sounds, and whenever we shot that 80-something.

Speaker 1 83.

Speaker 3 83 was was not that unusual, but it was fucking unusual

Speaker 3 by comparison, right? And I liked the, you know, I have three sisters and a mom.

Speaker 3 Most people who work for me are women. I didn't plan it that way.
It's just how it is. So I'd like that whole setup in the premise.

Speaker 3 And I thought, okay, now how do we make now just let's just make this funny? So it was already funny, but there were things because the director, who was a talented guy, but he was not a comedy guy,

Speaker 3 we had to work on let's say and there was a lot of rewriting going on and and re as an example the whole chainsaw thing came about on the morning uh

Speaker 3 because as we were getting ready to do it there was there was no chainsaw scene there was no that didn't exist that he martin the great great late great martin mull yeah

Speaker 3 uh count comes in and says you know

Speaker 3 he's taken terry off i have so much to say about this because not enough credit is given to Terry Garr.

Speaker 1 Well, I was going to get

Speaker 1 into Terry Garr in a second. So keep going.

Speaker 3 Okay, I'll finish up. Sorry, going on too long.

Speaker 1 No, I love it.

Speaker 3 But so

Speaker 3 that scene was one thing, right? But what I knew was, I said, but how does this guy feel? You know,

Speaker 3 how insecure is he right now? And how emasculated is he right now?

Speaker 3 And when Martin walks in, just fucking cocksure, you know, just fucking beautifully played, like looking

Speaker 3 so brilliantly arrogant, looking at me. And I'm thinking, okay, what would this guy do? And I, he's panicked.
He's not ready for this.

Speaker 3 So I said to the prop guy, he get me like, I don't know, like he's pretending like he's working on the house, you know, like tools or something. And he goes, he shows me a chain.

Speaker 1 So I go, yes.

Speaker 3 And I said,

Speaker 1 you have me those goggles?

Speaker 3 And I go, yeah, he goes and gets the goggles. And then and then it, and then we just played it from there, you know, obviously insecure, obviously scared to be

Speaker 1 overcompensating out of his ass.

Speaker 3 And then the 220, 220 line was Martin's.

Speaker 1 It was Martin's line.

Speaker 3 What was the line again?

Speaker 3 You know, I said, yeah, we're probably going to rewire.

Speaker 1 I didn't know what I was talking about. I said, yeah, we're probably going to rewire the whole thing.

Speaker 3 And that was the end of that. And Martin said, you know what, you should say?

Speaker 3 Martin says something like, How are you going to wire it?

Speaker 1 And I go, I don't know.

Speaker 3 He says, you should say, you know, 220, 221, whatever it takes.

Speaker 3 That's Martin Moh's line. I keep telling people that

Speaker 1 that was not me.

Speaker 1 And by the way, you know, the movie you did before, that night shift, I watched over and over and over. Oh, my God.
I love that movie.

Speaker 1 And the one line that stuck out in my head, of course, is when you're like, we could just feed the tuna, the mayonnaise. Yeah.
So you don't have to

Speaker 1 get it open. And as a kid, I was like, that's such a genius idea.
Oh, my God. Feed the tuna fish.

Speaker 1 That's such a genius.

Speaker 2 You know, Willie, you know, now that I was just listening to Michael talk, it strikes me that I'll bet you Michael Keaton is an enormous influence on

Speaker 2 your style. I mean,

Speaker 2 you actually, you remind me of one another a lot.

Speaker 1 That's a compliment to me to him. That's a compliment.
You're a compliment to me. Sure.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Unintentionally.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Yeah, I know, I know.
Because, yeah, and I meant it when I said it is huge influence.

Speaker 1 And I wanted to get into, because then there were so many other films, too, that I thought deserved a lot of attention. One of them being Clean and Sober, which I think is a phenomenal film.

Speaker 1 And not just because I could relate to what he went through, but I just think it's a great, with the great M. Emmett Walsh.
I mean, there's just some amazing moments in that film.

Speaker 1 But I do want to talk about Terry Garr for one second because

Speaker 1 I also loved. Terry Garr.
And what was that like? I mean, she,

Speaker 1 what an unbelievable talent.

Speaker 2 Am I right?

Speaker 3 Spirit. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 And who, who, you know,

Speaker 3 you look at all the really great, funny women. There are so many now.
And

Speaker 3 there were kind of relatively speaking, so few then. But there were.

Speaker 1 They didn't write the great parts.

Speaker 3 No. And, you know, look at Terry, man.
She had everything. She still has everything.
She's so sweet. And I'm just, I just love her.

Speaker 2 And I think Catherine Hahn is like a modern-day guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And you look at, you know, she's witty and funny and feminine and masculine and

Speaker 3 all that stuff and just could just, you know, just had it, you know, and has it and

Speaker 3 helped me, you know, like you guys know, you know,

Speaker 3 you can't do it on your own. You know, you need somebody to set you up.

Speaker 1 For sure.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Now streaming on Paramount Plus, it's the return of Landman, TV's biggest hit from Yellowstone co-creator Taylor Sheridan.

Speaker 1 Academy Award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back as Tommy Norris, facing higher stakes than ever.

Speaker 1 With an all-star cast, including Demi Moore, Andy Garcia, and Sam Elliott, tensions rise as Tommy and Camille Miller fight to control M.Tech's oil.

Speaker 1 When his father returns, Tommy must balance life as both oilman and family man. Don't miss Landman Season 2, now streaming only on Paramount Plus.

Speaker 1 Do you guys love the holiday season? I love it. What's on my shopping list? I want a new Dop Kit bag.
Is that stupid? I think it's great.

Speaker 1 This holiday season, earn cash back at your favorite stores across travel, dining, home essentials, and more with Racketon.

Speaker 1 Stack cash back on top of holiday sales to maximize savings while stores offer their highest cash back rates of the year.

Speaker 1 Yep, if a store is running a 20% off sale and Racketon offers 15% cash back, you can stack both deals together.

Speaker 1 Plus, with Racketon's weekly big deal reveals, you'll find one great store offering epically high cash back for one day only. Hey, maybe I'll get Jason and Will a Dopkit too.

Speaker 1 Membership is free and it's so easy to sign up. Visit racketon.com, download the app or install the browser extension.
Join today for a new member welcome bonus after minimum qualifying purchases.

Speaker 1 Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 4 The family that vacations together stays together. At least, that was the plan.
Except now, the dastardly desk clerk is saying he can't confirm your connecting rooms. Wait, what?

Speaker 3 That's right, ma'am. You have rooms 201 and 709.

Speaker 5 No, we cannot be five floors away from our kids.

Speaker 5 The doors have double locks, they'll be fine.

Speaker 4 When you want connecting rooms confirmed before you arrive, it matters where you stay.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Hilton.

Speaker 5 I see your connecting rooms are already confirmed.

Speaker 4 Hilton, for this day.

Speaker 1 And now back to the show.

Speaker 2 But Michael, your ability to

Speaker 2 find material or material find you and casts and directors that find you and you find like

Speaker 2 your career is just like I don't I don't and I don't want to embarrass you but you know like Willie said but

Speaker 2 your ability to to

Speaker 2 jump from comedy to drama so seamlessly for so long your your your run your relevancy is just it's it's been going for so long and continuing on this great escalating pitch that I hope you're as proud of as you deserve to be because you're just an incredible actor that that knows how to make people laugh when you're playing a part and make people cry.

Speaker 2 Like you're not a comic, you're not a, you know, like,

Speaker 2 so I just, I, can you talk a little bit about

Speaker 2 how, I won't ask you to explain how you see yourself, but how do you, what attracts you to certain stuff?

Speaker 1 What's, what's your, what's your goal, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, well,

Speaker 3 I will speak about it, but I kind of want to stop because that's just too good.

Speaker 3 I'll leave it at that. Well, thank you, first of all.

Speaker 2 Just can't label label you, you know, and that takes a lot of yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay, well, let's start with that. So, first of all, let's

Speaker 3 thank good fortune and all that. I don't believe in luck.

Speaker 1 I've never believed in luck, but I believe in good fortune. I do.
I say that, dude. I literally same

Speaker 1 the same because it's true.

Speaker 1 It's true. I say I'm fortunate.
I'm not lucky. I'm fortunate.

Speaker 3 No, man. You know why? You earned what you did.
All three, a lot of us, we all earned it. We were asses off to the...

Speaker 2 There's a lot of talented people out there that, you know, you do luck plays a huge part of it because if if everybody who was talented got the jobs there wouldn't be any left you know i mean luck plays a big part of it so we're all appreciative of that yeah but i'm grateful i'm grateful you know i'm grateful yeah so so there was the only plan

Speaker 3 And by the way, I'm breathing rarefied air right now. I realize that.
I don't know how many other guys are.

Speaker 1 I saw Jeff the other day, Bridges, who lives over the mountain range here.

Speaker 1 Another one. Exactly like that.
Yeah, he,

Speaker 3 you know, I was saying, you know, there's, there's not many of us doing this, and

Speaker 3 I want to keep doing it, but I want to keep doing it. I always wanted to do it how I wanted to do it.
I know that sounds arrogant and kind of selfish, but I just knew I'd be happiest that way.

Speaker 3 And so every time I had a television show that got canceled, which was two of them, three of them, I guess, I could not tell you how happy I was because I felt freer to move on to the next thing.

Speaker 3 So if I had a strategy, and I don't know that it was a strategy, it was only this.

Speaker 3 Right after night shift,

Speaker 3 there were some things offered to me. And when I think back, I go, wow, that took a fairly sizable set of balls.

Speaker 3 I said, no, I knew I wanted to do the

Speaker 3 Mr. Mom.
And then there were a couple others that I thought, I don't know,

Speaker 3 like all three of you, I'm sure, I would think.

Speaker 3 you say, but I really have a pretty big imagination and

Speaker 3 I'm curious about a lot of things and I'd like to play other things. I'd like to explore other things.
I'd like to see, and if it doesn't work, then I know at least I have this for a few years.

Speaker 3 I can maybe grind out five, six, eight years of me being that guy.

Speaker 3 And I thought, but I think what will happen is

Speaker 3 people are going to get very bored very quickly with this kind of guy they saw in Night Shift, et cetera.

Speaker 3 And so I said, well, then let me lay down something early and see if that works, because that will potentially open up a wider range for me.

Speaker 3 And I don't know if this is going to do it, but that was the only conscious thing.

Speaker 3 The other is you just trust your gut. And so I made certain decisions early on.
I was told, don't do clean and sober,

Speaker 3 don't do Pacific Heights. don't do a lot of things.
And I said, yeah, but I want to do those things and I want to lay it down. So I passed up certain movies that turned out to be great movies.

Speaker 3 And I don't want to talk about them,

Speaker 3 but they turned out to be great things.

Speaker 3 And I probably, in retrospect, one or two of those probably should have, but I was fearful that, look, I always feel like, and this is my own, so I need to talk to somebody about this because I always feel,

Speaker 3 man, if I'm in two movies a year, people are going to go, enough already. We are so friggin' sick of you.
You know, we just, it's like, enough. And so I had that, and that's not a healthy thing.

Speaker 3 But I just wanted to lay down

Speaker 3 the potential possibility that, well, wait a minute now. I don't know what to do with him.
And the risk is, as you guys know, well, that could be dangerous.

Speaker 3 And I just rolled the dice because I always bet on me. Don't ask me why.

Speaker 2 But you also had, you had this great combination between leading man and character actor.

Speaker 2 That's what I, for me, just as a consumer of you, of a fan,

Speaker 2 you never really took

Speaker 2 the junk food, the celebrity stuff. You always were just playing an actor.
You were either a character actor or a leading man and sort of this great ratio between both and comedy and drama.

Speaker 2 And then for my money, like this incredible, you know,

Speaker 2 validation in Birdman, but you know, at a moment where a filmmaker and an actor come together

Speaker 2 sort of

Speaker 2 in this incredible little recipe between the two that you wouldn't normally put together. And then, like,

Speaker 2 I don't know, there's been a, there's been a few combinations like that. That was just so exciting to see that combination.
And then, of course, the film itself and

Speaker 2 the concept of the film as well, just everything coming together and just a rocket ship. And it was so exciting for me to see.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just that, the story in the community, and then also just the film itself.

Speaker 1 Well, but also, also, Michael, like, you know, as Jason sort of said, you, you, you, you kind of defied genre in that you couldn't be put in a thing.

Speaker 1 You got to be a movie star on your own, on your own terms, right? You got to kind of,

Speaker 1 you know, in a time where there were, there really aren't really movie stars in that way anymore. I mean, there are, but it's, it's different.

Speaker 1 But you were, you were in like the height of the movie star era, and yet you were able to kind of think about it in that year, you were talking about like doing stuff you wanted to do. In 1988,

Speaker 1 you did Beetlejuice and Clean Clean and Sober. Yeah.
Now, you want to talk about two movies on different ends of the spectrum. Exactly.
Okay. And then the next year, you did the first film.

Speaker 1 And we're going to get into Batman in a second. Yeah.
Because it's the one thing that I feel a real kinship with.

Speaker 1 But you were part of a lot of firsts. Like Will's kind of saying, like, Mr.
Mom, nobody was doing a comedy like that. You were the first one to do a comedy kind of like that.
And then Beetlejuice.

Speaker 1 And then Batman. Like, you were the first to do a lot of things.
Is that something you look for? Like, in Scripture?

Speaker 1 Well, I was going to say, well, I was going to say, so you do that in that one year, you do Beetlejuice and Clean and Sober. What was that year like for you?

Speaker 2 And your agent must have, you made your agent look fantastic that year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 And meanwhile, that's right. And at the time, that's not what happened.
As you guys know, it didn't happen that way.

Speaker 3 Tim sought me out because we had,

Speaker 3 he, he sought me. He said, I'd like to talk to that guy.
And so, yeah, that, you know, and I will also credit Elvis Mitchell, whom I'm actually going to speak with later.

Speaker 3 And Elvis ended up working for me and my partner Harry for a couple of years because we read this guy. We thought he was, we just dug what he was about and

Speaker 3 liked him and he worked for us for a minute.

Speaker 3 And I'll credit Elvis, I don't think there was, I don't know what the award was, it was either New York, I don't know what it was, New York Film Critics or Film Critics Award.

Speaker 3 There was something, they didn't have an event. And Elvis kind of said, excuse me, what Will just said, basically.
And then they said, okay, sure, we'll give it to him.

Speaker 3 And then there's, I have somewhere a piece of paper or something. But that didn't come via, that came from Tim asking about me, about

Speaker 3 wanting to meet me about Beeter Juice through David Geffen. And the clean and sober thing came, and that was another thing that people said,

Speaker 3 you don't want to do that. That's not, my agent literally at the time said, I don't think you should do that.

Speaker 3 And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure I should, just because I want to this is a really well-written script you guys know this i mean it's hard to read to find something that's the writing will drive everything ultimately right now whether it comes together that's another story but so so i'll run through this i'm sorry and so that in one year i didn't plan any of that that just happened i just said man this guy tim burton actually he is something i just i don't know what he is i just know for sure he's something and i when he tried to explain Bujus to me, I said,

Speaker 3 They said, What did you think? I said, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is.
I don't understand it. And but I like that guy.
And he said, He wants to talk to you.

Speaker 3 Will you just give him another one? I go, Yeah, all right, I'll go meet him again. And I go talk to him, and I said, Yeah, well, I'm still the same.
I still don't understand.

Speaker 3 He, I say this about Tim, who I freaking love.

Speaker 1 I would say, in his life,

Speaker 3 he is,

Speaker 3 you know, a declarative sentence, you know, with a subject, a verb, and, you know, and then a period at the end of it. I'd say he's completed maybe eight, maybe eight declarative simple sentences.

Speaker 1 He just doesn't think like that.

Speaker 3 He's not that guy, you know. And so I'd meet him and I'd go, okay, I'm getting closer.
Then he said two things to me, and I went, All right, I think this guy's worth it. So I said,

Speaker 3 give me a minute. And I went home and I started thinking about it.
And he said a couple of things. And I asked for a wardrobe from every period of time to go to my house.
I was renting this house.

Speaker 3 It was empty. I had no furniture.
And

Speaker 3 I just started handpicking stuff. And then

Speaker 3 there was something about that I found kind of spooky and creepy about like

Speaker 3 bad teeth and a semi-broken nose and a walk.

Speaker 3 And I just started going to work. And I said, you know what? There's something about this guy.
I really dig him. Fuck it.
I don't know. I don't know.
Let's does this work. And so that happened.

Speaker 3 And then Clean It Sober was just another script. It wasn't.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Michael. Wait, wait, wait.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The character of Beetlejuice. First of all, half the movie, you're in like old-timey prison garb.
Right. And, and, okay.

Speaker 1 And you've got this fucking, and you've got like, you've got like mascara on that covers half your face. Yeah.
And your hair is sticking up, and you fight, and you've got this voice, and you go, yeah.

Speaker 1 And you're like, say what you are.

Speaker 1 And you kind of, and you fucking, and I'm like,

Speaker 1 you want to talk about taking a big fucking swing?

Speaker 1 I mean, how do you go? How do you show up day one? Are they like, okay, guys, let's rehearse. All right, we're going to block this scene.
I'm like, and you come, I go, eh,

Speaker 1 say it, you're done.

Speaker 1 Like, what the fuck is going on? What's this guy doing?

Speaker 1 I mean, it's a lot. And it fucking,

Speaker 1 you drilled it in a way that you just.

Speaker 2 Did you preview that for Tim before the first rehearsal?

Speaker 3 Will, that's very insightful, Will, because you're you're right that's what I know I didn't and that's that was the beauty of and it is the beauty of working with him you're really just making stuff like let's go make stuff you know and so so we talked and nobody was paying attention there was the budget was small and no one was paying attention

Speaker 3 and I and we were down in Raleigh studios and

Speaker 3 I said

Speaker 3 Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Here's what's weird about this.

Speaker 3 Think of this. We never tested it.

Speaker 3 We never never tested it i said i said he it's like i said here's what i'm going to do it's like he's he stuck his finger in a thing he starts here and he goes up from there it's never like there's no arc yeah there's no he just goes from 10 to 15 right right and it never and it never and i said and i don't know why i don't have an actor's explanation for any of this shit like the great thing about this thing is you can't you never could say my character wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 There are no rules. There are no rules.

Speaker 3 The freedom was unbelievable. So Will,

Speaker 3 that's insightful because I go, Tim had the suit, Tim had the eyes, Tim had the pale makeup. And he said something to me about, he's from all different,

Speaker 3 he appears out of time,

Speaker 3 you know, in the 20s and the 18, there's no, he's not connected in any time or anything. He might go underground for years until he's released.
So I said, underground.

Speaker 3 I said, how about mold let's do some mold up the face you know and then and then I said okay you know the hair is like it has to

Speaker 3 stick all the way out and but the striped suit was Tim's vision he started showing me pictures of all his stuff and so on that day

Speaker 1 when I showed up I went I don't know

Speaker 3 here we go and as soon as I walked on the first scene you can see him

Speaker 3 his eyes get picked and he lights up and he goes yes and then you know it's the ultimate yes and because he'd go, oh, I didn't know we were going to do that. Hold on a minute.

Speaker 3 If you're going to do that, let me show you something. See, when you go up there, this is what that's going to.
He had to explain to me what was going to happen. And I went, oh, I think I get it.

Speaker 1 Because of the visual effects? Yeah, because of the visual effects. What happened later? Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Fuck, man. Dude, you're out on a...
I love this so much.

Speaker 1 I love the idea that you're out on a fucking ledge and you don't know where you're fucking going. That to me is.
And didn't give a shit.

Speaker 1 That's my fucking dream kind of

Speaker 1 true, man. I know.

Speaker 3 It's so fun to talk to you guys about this because I'm with three people who know, kind of know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 But then you land it into the

Speaker 1 clean and sober.

Speaker 2 Exactly, which is the most like no tricks, no makeup, no wardrobe. It's just people talking about

Speaker 2 being raw and like I'm being honest.

Speaker 3 It's Mike Tyson walking in with trunks and two boxing gloves.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How many people over the years have come up to you and told you that clean and sober had a profound effect effect on their life?

Speaker 3 Lots. And boy, that means something to me.
You know, it's so, I say this, and I don't care what people think. I'm so blessed that I get to do some things that every once in a while that'll happen.

Speaker 3 You know, how many people have that job? You know, a lot of people would like that job.

Speaker 3 I have that job. That's why I did worth.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's why I did, you know, my life.

Speaker 1 You know, my life.

Speaker 3 And you go, you got to do these things if you got the opportunity. You know, you know, you've been given this, this,

Speaker 3 you've been given this thing, you know. Yeah, I earned it, but I've been also given it.

Speaker 1 So, so if you can do, throw everybody a solid, fucking do it, you know, and go make some money.

Speaker 1 So, speaking of which, speaking of making money, you go in 1990 and 89,

Speaker 1 you once again

Speaker 1 team up with Tim Burton and you do Batman. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that is the fucking game changer. Yeah.
That's game changer of game.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I mean, in a lot of ways, you doing that allowed me to make some money.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I guess I kind of fucking owe you, dude. A little bit.
A little bit.

Speaker 1 A little bit. A little bit.

Speaker 1 You did the first

Speaker 1 I am Batman.

Speaker 3 By the way, I'll give you my business manager's address code.

Speaker 1 Just Venmo. Just do Venmo.
Yeah, just Venmo. Straight Venmo.

Speaker 1 And michael i just got out of high school when you when that came out when the batman came out and i was like wait the guy from night shift that i've i've signed a million times and mr mom he's batman like

Speaker 1 and then i didn't take the word of your face again but wait

Speaker 1 hang on wait for it and then and then you saw i even saw the trailer i was like oh my god he i can't

Speaker 3 i mean he nailed it in the trailer i remember seeing the poster for it i remember seeing the poster just the symbol of the batman and and i was like what i was like what the is this so how about some credit to tim yeah for going yeah that guy and people went what do you on your mind and he went no that guy so i don't think enough credit has been given to him me i went

Speaker 3 you know we had the meeting he and i sat he said take this home and read it tell me what you think and i remember where i was sitting where the window was and he and i were talking and i said well so here's what i think but nobody's going to do that and he went that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 And so he had to go to them and say, no, that guy, and to his credit, boy, you know,

Speaker 3 he changed everything. He changed everything.

Speaker 1 I could talk.

Speaker 1 I mean, Marvel exists. All of it exists because of that.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 3 A lot of people made a lot of money off me and Tim and Jack.

Speaker 1 Sean has nutted over a thousand times to Marvel movies because of that movie.

Speaker 1 Right? A thousand nuts. There's that.
Yeah. There's that.
Yeah. You can't put a price on that.
No, you can't put a price. But it did.

Speaker 1 It launched the, you know, and ever since then, we've been, we've all been fucking under the tyranny of IP. But, you know,

Speaker 1 but you did, you did start that. Good way to put it.
And it was, I, I stole that from somebody, but, but you're right.

Speaker 1 But it's true, but, but you, but you guys started it, you and Tim Burton, but you as the face, Tim is incredible, obviously,

Speaker 1 like you said. Well, and you kind of invented the whole, like Will just said, like the whole thing, like the tone and the feel and the look and the

Speaker 1 there was humor to it, but it was also serious and there was action and it was dark. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But you know, Will, there was very little humor in it.

Speaker 1 And, you know, maybe we no, but you had moments, though, yeah, as Burton.

Speaker 3 No, I mean in the original script, in the original script. Oh, really? Yes.

Speaker 3 And so, so, you know, maybe it's just an instinct, but, but there were scenes because even that, man, that pressure was on Tim so big.

Speaker 1 Pressure was on all of us.

Speaker 3 And you felt it every day, you know, you go,

Speaker 3 studio, people flying it, you know, because this was a big swing for everybody. But there wasn't, and I don't know if it's the instinct or not,

Speaker 3 you know, a gut feeling saying, well, wait a minute, you know, a lot of this kind of darkness. I mean, Maybe maybe not so much.

Speaker 3 So as an example, in that scene where the big long table where Vicki Vale comes over and I'm having a date, and I'm so nervous, you know, and I go, Do I tell her? Do I not tell her?

Speaker 3 I can't let her know, but I really like this woman. And she's sitting there, and she asked me about the room.
And I said, Tim, you know, it would be funny. And there were a couple of these moments.

Speaker 3 I said, you know, if he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he realizes, I don't think I've ever been in this room before.
You know what I mean? Which says everything about the character.

Speaker 3 You know, you go, who's this lonely guy? He's rambling around the house.

Speaker 1 You know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a great sort of like high-low of him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
I love, I love that kind of stuff, that kind of awareness of it and not taking himself too seriously, really, in that moment. Because there's a way that that could come across as a dick.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't. You got it.
You know, it all fell within the context of a guy who is really rich, but his parents were murdered, but all that stuff, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Kind of a weird dude, you know, like a very weird dude.

Speaker 1 And, you know, but you,

Speaker 1 what was it like when that movie came out? And it was, as you said, it was a big swing for everybody, big swing for you and your career, big swing for Tim Burton, big swing for the studio.

Speaker 1 They put a lot of money into it. Books have been written about this movie and how it got made, et cetera.
And when that movie

Speaker 1 comes out and it's a fucking smash hit, how many.

Speaker 1 How many high fives, did you have to bandage your hand from the high fives?

Speaker 2 Or was it the opposite?

Speaker 2 Was it, oh, this is going to be a level of exposure and responsibility now that could change things and it might not be comfortable?

Speaker 3 More of that. Jason.

Speaker 1 Jason immediately looks at the negative. Or was it?

Speaker 1 Now I'm obligated to go and say, thank people for this. I have chocolates I have to go to.
Now all of a sudden, now I've got to talk to my business manager.

Speaker 1 It's good news. Is it good news? It's good news for you.

Speaker 3 Now, did you guys know, did you guys know the chemistry would work like Jason Brink is the, you know, he's every once he needs to do what he just did.

Speaker 3 Did you guys go, oh, fuck, that's why we hired the the guy. Let's bring it in.
That's why we, yes, bring them in.

Speaker 1 We've had the good fortune, guys, I'm going to say, of being friends for 20 years. So

Speaker 1 we knew.

Speaker 3 Don't touch it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we have a good little, we have a good little touch.

Speaker 3 It's like the guys on TBS, you know, Charles Barkley and those guys. Someone just needs to say to them, don't touch it.

Speaker 1 Don't touch it.

Speaker 3 Just love those guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Looking for a running shoe that does it all? The New Balance 1080 is your ultimate go-to, blending comfort, performance, and undeniable style.

Speaker 1 Whether you're clocking miles or grabbing coffee, it seamlessly transitions from your morning run to your everyday life.

Speaker 1 With plush cushion support, your feet stay secure and comfortable run after run. And thanks to lightweight, breathable materials, you'll stay cool and fresh no matter how far you go.

Speaker 1 From race day to rest day, the new balance 1080 delivers the versatility and comfort serious athletes and everyday movers demand.

Speaker 1 Slip them on and experience what effortless performance really feels like. I got myself a pair of 1080s right before I came to London, and boy, oh boy, did I need them.
They are so comfortable.

Speaker 1 The soles are thick and it's super soft and plushy, and it makes walking everywhere such a pleasure. I love it.
Shop the 1080 at newbalance.com.

Speaker 1 Having the United Airlines app is like having your own pocket-sized personal assistant at the airport.

Speaker 1 Get real-time flight updates like your gate number and a live countdown to boarding, even if your home screen's locked.

Speaker 1 Stride over to your gate with gazelle-like grace, thanks to door-to-gate directions from your personalized airport map.

Speaker 1 Once you fly with the United app, you'll never fly without it, unless you don't want to save about 30 minutes at the airport. Get it before your next trip at united.com slash app.

Speaker 1 With Sylvania, seeing better while driving at night starts with you. Because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50 feet of visibility before burnout.
That's why you shouldn't wait.

Speaker 1 Upgrade your drive with brighter lights for better visibility on the road ahead.

Speaker 1 Sylvania's step-by-step installation guides make it easier than ever to take control of your nighttime clarity all without a trip to the mechanic.

Speaker 1 So before a burnout darkens your day, upgrade till Sylvania and see better tonight.

Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 But did you, you must have, was it just, was it not what Jason was saying? Did you felt an obligation?

Speaker 3 No, I was going there. I like that actually.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you were thinking about the deal you'd already struck for the season.

Speaker 1 No, you woke up and then you woke up and you're like, did you buy a Ferrari? What the fuck did you do that next morning? Got a tattoo, a Batman tattoo on your face. You're like,

Speaker 1 I never even want a Ferrari, but I better fucking get one now.

Speaker 1 I don't even want one.

Speaker 1 That's true.

Speaker 3 You know, I actually did investigate getting a Ferrari one time.

Speaker 3 I actually did.

Speaker 3 And I remember thinking, I'm too lazy for the amount of work and effort I'm going to put into this.

Speaker 1 I mean, the clutch and the stick, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, not that so much, but like, where do I have to be careful? Where can I really drive it? Is this really worth it? You know, I'm blessed that I don't need a lot of stuff because I don't have,

Speaker 3 I'm just lucky that I don't need a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 3 I'm not so cool.

Speaker 1 I just don't, I don't have an interesting person. I love that you're thinking through the practicality of a Ferrari.
Yeah, I know. I'm going to.
There's nothing practical.

Speaker 1 You can't valet it. Like, what do you do? Is it good on ice?

Speaker 3 All of a sudden, I'm the least interesting, most unfun guy.

Speaker 1 Oh, I don't know if this is practical. I don't yeah, but my clubs.
There's no back seat.

Speaker 1 Exactly. I know, really.
Well, you must have been elated, and it must have felt like a good vindication.

Speaker 1 Now, look, you'd had a lot of success before, but this was like a different, this was a different thing, I bet.

Speaker 3 I'd let myself enjoy it.

Speaker 1 It was global. You let yourself enjoy it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and also what Jason

Speaker 3 called the downer. Let's just refer him as God.

Speaker 3 No, and a little bit of that. It's like, whoa, this is a lot.
You know, it's not, I don't love this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 And, you know, sometimes grateful though knowing you knowing who you are now and all your success with all of the unbelievable your resume is just one of the most impressive ever it really is it's just incredible

Speaker 1 i always you know you don't think about oh well that guy probably had he had an audition like as like i just see you as a movie star but when you're when you're younger you had to audition and start out you know just like all the rest of us and it's hard to imagine you walking into a room what made you didn't you grow up in where did you grow up Right outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 And so what brought you to L.A.? Like, what made you want to do it?

Speaker 1 Well, boy, we could go.

Speaker 3 Let me make it.

Speaker 1 We have 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 For this one answer.

Speaker 1 Okay, right.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I just a couple of times. What's the next question?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I'm kidding. I'm totally.
We have an hour. Whatever you're doing.

Speaker 3 I was this kid who was, you know, started to get very interested in, I thought, could a person do this, you know? And

Speaker 3 yeah, because I come from so not that background, except my funny family, my funny brothers and sisters, and a big family, and the youngest, so there's that, right? So when I went to school,

Speaker 3 I was curious because my friends and I were,

Speaker 3 the guys I hung with tightly and some young women at the time,

Speaker 3 were funny. And I'd like to be around them.
And I knew what my taste was in terms of. And so

Speaker 3 I was not a theater kid however I did take a couple theater classes so I was clearly curious about this and I was not very good I don't think I auditioned for a play I got a little role in a play in school didn't really do anything for me and then I dropped out of school to make some money to go back to school and in the interim I was doing this play in Pittsburgh Sticks and Bones and at the same time working at the PBS station where I do everything and in

Speaker 3 everything.

Speaker 3 And at the same time I was, while I was in school, I was really into the lampoon and I was really into

Speaker 3 everything funny. And I was just, and so I started writing, and I thought, I don't know if I can even do this other thing if I ever try it.
Maybe I could write this.

Speaker 3 You're just a kid trying to figure things out, right? Yeah. So I said, well, I'm kind of liking this.
And I just trusted myself. And I said, you know what?

Speaker 3 This is either going to happen or not happen. So I started to go to New York.

Speaker 3 where I was about to move and at the last minute I went to California thinking I would only stay there for a summer and I was writing and I started performing stand-up and doing a play

Speaker 3 and the stand-up thing worked in New York like like that off the bat I mean when I say worked it didn't work it worked in that I got asked back the first time I showed up and that's a big deal so you did that and I went I really love this because it was theater To get to the auditioning part, so now I go to California and I'm going to do this real fast.

Speaker 3 And I'm sleeping on floors like everybody else and crashing with buddies and working in restaurants and doing all the things, parking cars, doing everything everybody does.

Speaker 3 The thing that turned it around in terms of the audition process was I was an okay auditioner, but what, and I tell when young people ask me, I tell them this all the time, forget I, the want, I want, I need, forget, throw that out, you're fucked.

Speaker 3 You have the job. The job is for the next 15 minutes, you're at work.
Right. The audition is the job.

Speaker 1 That's the gig.

Speaker 3 So you got to go to work today for 15 minutes.

Speaker 3 You know, it's excruciating. It's a horrible setup for, you know, there's nothing good about it.
But that was the, once I said, I'm not going to look at this like, I got to get this.

Speaker 3 I turned the corner where I said, you know what, man, I feel pretty good today about what I did. So I'm just going to look at it like at 3.30 out at MTM Studios or wherever I was going to be.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm going to Radford. I'm going to work.
And so I thought, yep, get ready.

Speaker 1 What a great approach. My job only lasted 20 minutes.

Speaker 3 And then I went to my regular job and I said, I don't know. Fuck that.

Speaker 1 It freed me up.

Speaker 3 Totally freed me up.

Speaker 1 Of course it did. And I like the idea of also telling that to young actors because people, you know, they ask me for advice all the time.
And I always say, you know, fuck off.

Speaker 1 So now I have something that I can say I came up with.

Speaker 2 Get that camera out of my head.

Speaker 1 Fuck, who gave you? My parents know your parents. Shut the fuck.

Speaker 1 No, but that is such great advice.

Speaker 1 You know, I think the other thing is it kind of falls in the same same line of like

Speaker 1 once you realize, once you get older and you've done a bit more in doing what we do, you start to, and you get to the other side and you have a chance to direct JB and

Speaker 1 produce stuff

Speaker 1 and whatever. You realize when they, that they are looking to solve a problem, right? That they want somebody to come and they want what you don't know is a young actor.
They're on your side.

Speaker 1 They're on your side. They want you to get this job.

Speaker 2 They got another character to cast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because once i figured that out and i was like and i remember casting something you know with mitch and being like and people coming in and going like oh fuck i hope this dude's good man not and i used to think that they're like oh show me no we're like it uh this guy i want to check

Speaker 3 i want to check yeah but you guys are actors so you're sympathetic you go you you know you go you know what that feels like right so you know yeah you know you you don't want something

Speaker 1 there's no merit in watching something go down oh no there's no merit to it it's worse it's it's the

Speaker 1 feeling um wait i want to talk about because you know we i want to but you did you you did i'm sorry i was just going to say was he was just talking about the the auditioning shot if you don't mind just one second oh yeah um

Speaker 1 made me think of another subject no i'm just kidding uh do you

Speaker 1 no while we're on the subject is that uh uh

Speaker 1 is that and you were talking about mtm you did i wasn't kidding in my intro yeah you were on that two different iterations of the mary tyler one called mary and the other called the mary

Speaker 1 really mary teller more hour is that what it's called yeah yeah um with dave letterman with letterman letterman letterman letterman bailed after the first one yeah i stuck around

Speaker 3 and they were in the cast together i didn't know that in 1978 michael is that right wait did you work with jimmy burrows uh uh jimmy burrows wait jimmy burrows director mary teller wait jason you and i you know one of my favorite jobs ever you i always really liked gary goldberg yeah yeah yeah And he, I always really liked him.

Speaker 3 Good guy. And then and his wife, I remember Diana.

Speaker 2 Courtney actually was just singing his praises two days ago at the same time she was singing yours.

Speaker 1 Huh.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 he gave me this gig that was one of my favorite. I'll talk to you about that MTM thing, but one of my favorite things I ever did was this character I did on Tony Randall had a show for a minute.

Speaker 3 He had a couple of shows, I guess. Many shows, probably.

Speaker 3 But he had a thing called the Tony Randall Show, and Gary Goldberg hired me because he had seen me do something. I think he gave me the job, but I might have auditioned.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 at night school, it was called Ed's Night School, I think. And Tony Randall taught law at a night school.

Speaker 3 And I played this kind of dude, you know, and

Speaker 3 kind of a little dense.

Speaker 3 which is always fun and hard to play playing stupid is so Will has no problem playing

Speaker 1 it's my fucking

Speaker 1 right out of bed.

Speaker 1 That's your bed. That's your sweet spot.

Speaker 3 Anyway, so I played this thing and as an aside,

Speaker 3 I learned as much about comedy from watching Tony Randall because he would kind of direct because he knew more than anybody anyway.

Speaker 3 And his precision was so, and I was about, like, I thought, no, man, you know, freewheeling.

Speaker 1 His precision was so impressive that I remember going, whoa, pay attention to that.

Speaker 3 You know, where, you know, where and the how and the you know it was just really an education so yeah when i was when i was doing that and i i apparently have forgotten the question but mary telling more of grandmary oh so then that that led to all that other stuff so letterman

Speaker 3 bailed after the first

Speaker 3 we all thought it was going to be a little something and she was wonderful yeah uh lady really liked her and and and the guys who were part of that group who was jay tarsis and

Speaker 3 you know those guys they were part of it.

Speaker 1 So we went, well, their pedigree is really good.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't quite what we thought it would be. And Dave bailed and I stuck around for the second iteration, which was so fun, man.
I had a little, I could afford a Honda, a little Honda Civic.

Speaker 3 And I could go, I remember driving to work down to the MTM studios thinking,

Speaker 3 there's no way this could get better.

Speaker 1 There's no way my could get better than this.

Speaker 1 And I was making, you remember, I mean, you go,

Speaker 3 look what you're making, you know, and and it wasn't much and you go are you kidding me i have a little apartment that's relatively clean yeah i got a

Speaker 1 car yeah oh man it's so fucking great that you just hit something that that sweet spot of that you guys know too like that when you get that that first gig where you go like i'm doing this i'm doing this and i'm getting paid and i'm doing this and i i remember the first year of willing grace i was 27 years old i was like i'll get fired next week i'm sure sure right but it doesn't matter at the time.

Speaker 3 You go.

Speaker 1 You were on Will and Grace.

Speaker 1 That's what it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Michael, I want to go back to the Beetlejuice 2. Yeah, looks incredible.

Speaker 1 When you got, yeah, it looks amazing. When you got the, when you said yes to doing that, were you like,

Speaker 1 oh man, and the first day in the makeup trailer, you're like, why did I put this? I got to put the, why did I say yes? I got to put the wig on. I got to put the fucking dirt on my face.

Speaker 1 I got to put the black circles. Or you're like, no, this is awesome.

Speaker 3 It was, no, it was the second. It was like, this is awesome.

Speaker 3 because you have to understand this is this is a long time in the making but not so as you know it right yeah because everybody i knew for years are like why don't they do a sequel why don't they do sequels finally it's here because you can't recreate what we made you can't write it it's imagine trying to write it when a lot of the writing just happened you know it wasn't on the page so much even though it some of it was and some was terrific and the the world was terrific you go do that again you go it doesn't work like that Even in the most well-written,

Speaker 3 you know, you could take Larry Gilbert or Neil Simon or any of the brilliant writers and try to duplicate, try to duplicate Tootsie. It would have never,

Speaker 3 you couldn't do it again. So imagine trying to do that.

Speaker 3 So obviously that we were never going to do it. Then for years I thought, don't touch that.
Leave that alone, man. That's a little piece.
You just leave that alone. Don't touch it.

Speaker 3 But I liked it so much. And Tim and I worked so well together and I liked Tim so much that every once in a while I would go, what do you think? And the answer was that.

Speaker 3 And then it started getting more interesting to me and I suggested I'd like to do that again. Then that time passed and then I thought it was done.

Speaker 3 So when it came around again, we didn't, we'd see scripts now and then just, you know, they just didn't work. And then these guys kind of got it and went, whoa, this could be good.

Speaker 3 So Tim started talking to me about it. He had to finish something.
And so to answer your question,

Speaker 3 then you say, okay, I'm in.

Speaker 3 I had done a bunch, I directed this movie and I

Speaker 3 act in another movie and another one and I was a little tired and I thought I would like another two months just to chill and kind of ramp it up and and I didn't get it and I thought fuck it let's go do it so we went to go make it and as I'm sitting in that makeup trailer that you mentioned I remember going this is really fun and I'm really excited and I'm nervous because I go can you can you pull this off again

Speaker 3 And can you do it? Because don't do it if you don't look stupid. And not just for me, don't fuck this thing up, you know? Right, right.

Speaker 3 And so, what hit me was I was sitting in the makeup trailer going, yeah, here we go, that's right, and trying to explain to the woman, nah, they had, it's got a, not quite, you know, talking her through that.

Speaker 3 And then we were getting there and getting ready to do it. And about three days in, I went, there's something wrong, and I don't know what's wrong.
There's something off. That wasn't horrible.
I just,

Speaker 1 Justin Thoreau. It's Justin Thoreau.
He comes in with us and he's sleeves on.

Speaker 3 He's so funny in this. Dude, he's so funny in this.

Speaker 1 I don't buy it.

Speaker 1 We'll wait and see.

Speaker 1 I'll be the judge. I'll be the judge.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 3 So listen to this. So I'm sitting there and I go, I don't know what this is.
And I'm sitting in the makeup trailer and I'm going, yeah, this is fun. I'm having fun.
But what is bugging me?

Speaker 3 And I looked in the mirror and I went, I got it. I know what it is.
And I don't know about you guys, but I don't look at makeup anymore. I should go check more often in the monitor.

Speaker 3 I know I've made huge errors by not.

Speaker 3 I don't look at things anymore. I just go do it and I go home

Speaker 3 I Looked in the mirror and I went I got it. I know what it is this thing we created came out of nowhere.
It just it just came out of this now when I looked in the mirror I saw toys.

Speaker 3 I went this is fucked up. I saw the you know what I mean? I saw little Beterjoist toys.

Speaker 1 Wow. Oh like like

Speaker 3 it looked like you know what I mean? It looked like keychains and it looked like mugs.

Speaker 2 The commercial part of it that it had become All the merch.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and it wasn't that that's a bad thing. It was, oh, that perception is, yeah, we've seen them because we've seen it on t-shirts.
We've seen it.

Speaker 2 So did you change the look at all?

Speaker 3 No, that's interesting. I didn't.
I went, a little bit.

Speaker 3 There was something with the hair that wasn't working. I went, nah, that never really looked exactly like that.
And you're trying to like, and then you go, get that.

Speaker 3 whatever it takes to get that out of your brain, just go back to what made you even think of this friggin'.

Speaker 1 It's a derivative.

Speaker 1 It's based on

Speaker 1 an impression. I remember feeling that way with writers who would go, all of a sudden you'd read a script and they go, and they'd have your character do something.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, oh, they want me to do it based on, because they saw me do this in other times.

Speaker 1 But they don't realize that in other times, my character did that because it was organic to what was happening.

Speaker 1 Now they just want to see the trick. They don't want to see what led up to the trick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And it's a significant thing.

Speaker 3 And you'll never do it as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, you'll never do it as well.

Speaker 2 How did you fix that, Michael? How did you make a friendly?

Speaker 3 Psychologically, you had to go wipe that out of your brain, take it out of your brain.

Speaker 1 Find a new version of them, yeah. Yeah, no, you know, we would go on set, go, what, what was the thing originally?

Speaker 3 What was this, what was this thing originally? Just go be that again.

Speaker 2 Make it yours again.

Speaker 3 Yeah, make it yours again. Make it like, how did we come up with this crazy thing? And what was hard about that was there were certain things in this,

Speaker 3 look, man, I'm on record of saying how good this thing is. I'm not going to go on and on.
It's so good. But

Speaker 3 when I go on the set, there were things in the script that that shows you how smart I am that I remember reading the script, go, ooh,

Speaker 3 this could work. I go, I don't know about that.

Speaker 3 Tim likes that idea. I don't think that idea is going.

Speaker 1 Three of them.

Speaker 3 I was wrong on all three. I was wrong about it.
I was dead wrong when I saw it.

Speaker 2 He's just a remarkable filmmaker. I mean,

Speaker 2 he's never done anything easy.

Speaker 1 Not once. No.

Speaker 1 Edward Scissors hands, you know. Yeah, incredible.

Speaker 2 He just, his degree of difficulty that he takes on and just drills it every single time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't think that's a good idea.
Except for Carol nail clip her feet.

Speaker 1 Do you think?

Speaker 1 So do you guys do so you do this and you and like you've gone on the record saying it's going to be great?

Speaker 1 I mean, that is a lot of pressure, right? Yeah. And you have this thing, this iconic thing that you guys correct, and you're like,

Speaker 1 I'm sure when you're reading it or you're doing it, you're thinking like, fuck, man, if we don't drill this, we are, we've got a target on our fucking back. People are going to come for us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, honestly, I didn't.

Speaker 2 But it's team sports, right? You don't really take,

Speaker 2 do you take it on,

Speaker 2 you know, individually? No, right?

Speaker 2 I mean, don't you sort of, do you get that sense when you're working on something that it's, we're all kind of rowing in the same direction and that it's not really on you? Because you've.

Speaker 3 If you're healthy, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you find yourself in that in that position as often as you want to mentally?

Speaker 3 Good question. Yeah, mostly, I think.

Speaker 3 I think there's a part of me, and honestly, I'm not being humble here, but there's a part of me that's just plain stupid, I think.

Speaker 3 There's a part of me that just goes, I don't know, I don't think of some of these things other people think. And I don't know what that comes from, but I just don't.

Speaker 3 Sometimes I do, and I certainly was nervous about going back into it only to say, can I do this? Not just do it and get through it, but go, can you... Can you get there?

Speaker 3 Because it's deserving of you being

Speaker 3 good.

Speaker 3 You need to be good.

Speaker 3 And in terms of me talking about i'll tell you when i say i don't care what anybody else thinks of it i'm willing to say what i think about it because this is just how i feel about it there's movies i've seen and you guys have seen that people have hated and i went not me i love this movie or i don't or other movies where you go i don't get what people are raving about just

Speaker 3 me i don't care every person i've ever run into for the rest of my life could say boy that second beauty is really sucked i'd go not to me yeah i mean i mean it it has so many elements it's so beautiful first of all physically and and and it's you kind of care and I'm telling you every fucking person is funny in this I mean Justin is funny Catherine is funnier than she was in the first one

Speaker 1 and just for the audience just for the audience it is a biopic yeah

Speaker 1 yes thank you yeah thank you

Speaker 1 it's a true story of beetle juice the character who goes through the cross centuries you know it is it's licensed just to go out and and be silly. It's just

Speaker 1 great. I love it.
Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Well, look,

Speaker 1 like we say, we've taken up too much of your time. I could talk about it.
Way too long. It's like an hour.
Way too long. I know, I know, I know.
Yeah, really.

Speaker 1 And we just, what a thrill to have you, man, on the show. You're just, I just love that, like Jason said, that you're still doing it, that you're still rising.
You're still doing incredible stuff.

Speaker 1 You keep surprising us in Michigan. And might I add that you look fucking fantastic.
Yeah, you do. Yeah, you look great.

Speaker 1 Look Look at you. I haven't seen you in 30 years.
You don't sound great. You don't sound crazy.

Speaker 1 I hope I'm not crazy ever. You know what I mean? None of that.

Speaker 2 You're appreciative.

Speaker 1 You've done it all.

Speaker 2 And I mean that the best way to do Christ's sake.

Speaker 1 But you've done it all. And you've got your fucking feet on the ground.

Speaker 3 Let me ask you a question. If I would do the show every day, would I get this?

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, not really. It's just

Speaker 1 usually just once.

Speaker 1 That's a fucking good question, by the way.

Speaker 1 That's a good question.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 we'd turn on you pretty quick.

Speaker 3 I like the read, Jason.

Speaker 1 It wasn't mean.

Speaker 3 I'm being honest.

Speaker 1 Not probably. Just the one.
We'd turn on each other. It doesn't take much for us to turn on each other.
It happens to me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, immediately we'd put you right in the stew. You'd get it as hard as we do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But what a thrill, man.
It was so great to talk to you. And Betelgeuse, Betelgeuse.
Man, I'm excited. Yeah.
All right. Thanks, Michael.

Speaker 2 Thanks, guys. Come on back out of Montana and come hang out with us.

Speaker 3 All right. Thank you.
Honestly, it was really fun. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Good to see you, you, Michael. All right, bro.

Speaker 1 Bye.

Speaker 2 You've been stealing Michael Keaton shit for years.

Speaker 1 I know. I didn't want to embarrass him as well because, and I've, I've, I've,

Speaker 1 you know, I got to know him just to say hello over the last five, six years or something. We'd see each other at stuff.
And you know where I always talk to him, JB?

Speaker 1 Conan's Christmas party. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's true, I do.

Speaker 1 You're going to get invited this year again.

Speaker 2 Don't you ever mention his name to me.

Speaker 1 And I always talk to him about stuff and I always tell him how much. And he's a big hockey fan.
He's a big Penguins fan. So we talk hockey.

Speaker 1 And then last year he was really kind to me. He said something really nice about me on

Speaker 1 Colbert,

Speaker 1 which was a fucking thrill of a lifetime. But anyway, so we, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I just, I just love the way he does it.

Speaker 1 And it's the only impression I've ever done, and I don't want to, and he doesn't know this, is of him, but it's an impression of him from gung-ho

Speaker 1 uh-huh um we didn't talk about it

Speaker 1 I go

Speaker 1 they're coming to you the Japanese

Speaker 1 they bought the uh they bought the car plant

Speaker 1 that's really good

Speaker 1 people see it see it if you could see it you could see it it's good I would say it's really good close close yeah um yeah I've just been such a fan of his and like you I mean Jay you you pointed out I mean he does seamlessly between comedy and drama and absurdism and just everything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I like what you say. My life, have you ever watched My Life? No.

Speaker 1 I think I probably have. It's a fucking, it's so

Speaker 1 great and sad and, oh, my God,

Speaker 1 so good. Anyway.
What are you going to say, Jay?

Speaker 2 Well, just that he's reached such an enormous height of success and relevance, yet he can still go to the market. Yeah.
And he can still get a movie finance.

Speaker 1 That's really hard. I don't know if he could.

Speaker 2 yeah, he could he could go to the market for sure because he's not a celebrity He's just a really really well-respected very famous actor that can do anything and people go to see him Yeah, and I like what you said Jason about the you can't really nail him down like you can't or maybe you said it well that you you you can't label him Yeah, you can't label him.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
I love that. That's so true.

Speaker 1 By the way, that movie, My Life, is about a guy who's going to die and his son's going to be born. He's with Nicole Kidman, I think, and

Speaker 1 he leaves videos for his son because he's not going to meet him. Oh, geez.

Speaker 1 And how to live it, like what to do, and how to do stuff.

Speaker 2 If you're looking to get rid of any tears, I guess you just dial that up.

Speaker 1 If I could, I wish I could hug you guys right now. Yeah,

Speaker 1 hey, on that ranch that he was living on, do you think there were a lot of animals around there? Like, what kind of animals do you have?

Speaker 1 I hope your fucking mic cuts out.

Speaker 1 I hope the electricity goes out of your house, right?

Speaker 1 Wait, no, like there's probably like cows, and there's probably like bigger cows and like chickens. You mean like some spices? Spicin!

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 1 Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarf.

Speaker 1 Smart, less.

Speaker 5 When you invest with Fidelity Go, it does all the work for you.

Speaker 5 So while Fidelity Go monitors the markets, rebalances your portfolio, and tracks your progress to keep your investments aligned with your goal, you can invest your time however you want, all while paying no advisory fees under $25K.

Speaker 5 Invest your money, not your time, with Fidelity Go. Get started at fidelity.com slash go.
Advisory services offered by Strategic Advisors Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor.

Speaker 5 Brokerage services provided by Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, member NYSC and SIPC.

Speaker 1 You know those moments when you're trying to work through a complex problem and you can't stop until you've found the answer?

Speaker 1 That's where Claude comes in, the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.

Speaker 1 Whether you're planning something big, researching a topic you're curious about, or just trying to work through a problem, Claude matches your level of of curiosity.

Speaker 1 Try Claude for free at claude.ai/slash smartless and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.