"Jared Leto"

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Details at lowes.com slash terms subject to change. Hey guys, good morning.

Welcome to Smartless.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
Oh, there he is. Classic.
Listener, we've got Arnett with, I guess, a shirt you're borrowing from Thoreau. Yeah.
There's no sleeves at all on it. And I guess Jimmy Coco just left too, huh? Because your color's really even.
Let me just say this. Okay.
Nothing is more insulting to me, virtually nothing, than suggesting that it's a spray tan. Go F yourself.
I earned this. Well, you earned it by sitting out doing nothing under the sun with some sort of like a reflective board.
What are you doing? Playing golf. Building the stool you're sitting on? I've just got some cord.
Yeah, can you get your housekeeping shit together before we start the record? What are you doing? I've got some cord issues going on. I do too.
I'm messing with mine. Kind of wrapped around my chair.

You know what I've been doing lately, and this is a true story.

We went to this big,

I know this is going to air later, but we had a beautiful

event last night.

For Jimmy Buffett? For my friend Jimmy

Buffett.

I was going to ask you about that. It was awesome

and it was really beautiful and some great speeches

and stuff. And a lot of people I know, so that part of it was amazing.
Did you talk? Honestly, I did not. I did a thing at the tribute at the Hollywood Bowl, but last time I did, I saw one of the great speeches last night.
Downey? No. No, Downey wasn't there.
One of the great speeches I've ever seen as a sort of, that was set up as a non-roast and ended up being a roast, and it really blew me away. It was so hilarious.
I loved it. Wait, roasted Jimmy after he's passed? Yeah, but as a tribute to him, an old friend of his, a guy who's been friends with him for sort of 50, 60 years, and it was just, it was so good.
And our friend Tom Freston, who's a friend of the podcast, made a great speech. You haven't had him on yet.
No, I'm going to. He's the most interesting man on the planet.
Who's Tom Freston? Can't make his deal? Can't, well, we're looking to, because he wants a piece, and he's just like, and he said, send me over the numbers. I want to look and see.
Wait, who's Tom Freston? I met Tom Freston. He used to run MTV.
Tom Freston, yeah, he started MTV. I totally know him.
He's awesome. Dude, his stories are, he's just the best.
Well, we'll see if you can book him. I think he's writing a book right now, which will be, anyway, yeah, it was just, it was so, so, so, so good.
But the reason I brought it up was this, at this thing, Midsommar, and so many people, and now this many people come up to me and they go,

either, wow, you're really tan, or why are you so tan, right?

And people can't help themselves but make a personal remark.

You know what I do?

You know what I say?

Yeah.

And I go, they'll go, wow, you're so tan.

And I'll go, thank you so much.

Right.

And I just take it as a compliment. It is a compliment.
You hold color like you're from Brazil. I don't understand it.
You're like out of Toronto. I know.
Why is that? Why do you color so well? I'm a walking bounce card. Yeah, we would just burn immediately.
But JB, you hold quite a bit of color too. Let's be honest.
When you play golf, you're pretty tan, you'll be tan. But I don't say to you every day, man, you're so tan.
When we got, when we. Sorry, Sean, hold it.
God. I know.
Fuck. We're talking about our color and our golf game.
You'll wait. It's, my color is, it's got a hard V right under the chin, right? From the, from the hot shirts I wear.
Yeah shirts I wear. And then the little, you know, where the short sleeve ends, whatever that is, there's that tan line.
And then there's the forehead tan line because I'm wearing a sporty visor. Yours is like you're outside mowing the lawn with nothing on but like flip-flops.
Yeah, I know. First of all, everybody's, are people okay with their bones with you describing your V-neck dad bod, Dan? We just had a bone epidemic.
But you know what it is? I spend a lot of time, like, you know me. I'm not like out in the caribbean actually i was last month i'm at the pool i'm in the pool with the kids i was in the caribbean a month ago so that's part of it and we got it yeah sean go go for sean well i i my i have this friend who tans his taint oh yeah that's like a thing is it really so you So you tan completely naked.
Wait, is that like bleaching? I don't know. No, man.
Oh, that's where you draw the line. I know about tanning the asshole, but not about bleaching.
Yeah, I don't know anything about bleaching. Yeah, how dare you? Fuck.
Here we come. This is a great, great segue into our high-class guest.
Sorry about that. Our guest this week is enormously accomplished in two completely separate but very public careers and has done so while remaining incredibly private and avoiding, for the most part, all the trappings of a Hollywood life.
He's an actor and a musician, you two, not a celebrity and a rock star. In the movie world, he's received numerous nominations and awards, including an Oscar, a SAG, a Golden Globe.
He's worked with some of the greatest directors of our time, including Fincher, Malik Stone, Aronofsky, Villeneuve. As a musician, he's been the front man of his band for over 26 years.
They've sold over 50 million albums and toured the world multiple times. He's quietly been deeply involved in charity and the business world

and the few remaining free minutes in his life.

He's funny.

He's easy on the eyes.

He's a Capricorn, and I believe he's available.

Let's help him out, guys.

This is Jared Leto.

Leto, I just said it.

Oh, man.

Jared Leto.

Yeah.

Hello, hello, hello.

Hey, man.

Jared, hi.

Yeah.

You know, I'm proud to say Jared and I know each other a little bit. I wish I was close to friends with him.
I was going to ask. He's busy.
Where do we find you? You find me in Iowa today. Oh, really? Are we acting or musicianing? We just started the U.S.
leg of our world tour, which is called Seasons World Tour. Congratulations.
Shout out to Tracy in Wisconsin. We were in Wisconsin.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Yeah, last two shows, we were in Milwaukee and then in Kadat. Oh, wow.
Wait, what's Kadat? Yeah, what's Kadat? Kadat is a beautiful little town in the middle of nowhere. And today we're in Des Moines.
So, wait, is Kadat in Wisconsin? Yeah. All right.
Wait, how do you guys know each other? What? How? Just sort of crossing paths throughout our start as youngsters in the biz? Is that true? I think so. Vacationing.
I think it was the first time on our little trip to Ski Town. I have no idea.
I think maybe. I don't know.
But I have been very fond of you for a very long time, mister. Likewise.
I'm so glad to be able to talk to you. I'm focused for an hour here.
Yeah, this is awesome. I appreciate it.
And this is actually my, I think it's my first podcast that I've ever done. It's ours too.
Really? I'm going to fuck it up big time. Listen, Jared, here's the thing with podcasts.
Just try to get a word in. If I can say anything about podcasts, this is the first time any of us had done one.
We started it four years ago and we have not got any better. I would say we've gotten worse.
I wore some pajamas I thought someone might be in the pajama. Yeah, look at me.
Here's the stretchy pajama pants and the fucking hoodie and the shitty T-shirt. Jared, before we jump into how brilliant you are in your music and your acting, you're so good looking.
What do you do for your skin? Good Lord. Here we go.
And this is for Jared or this is for everybody? We're done with your skin.

No, it's kind of amazing.

Jared, how old are you?

Are you over 50?

52.

That's what I'm saying.

Shut the fuck up.

You look great.

Yeah.

You guys look great.

What are you talking about?

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, you could play, and I mean this,

and I love everybody here, including you, Jared,

because now you're with us.

You could play Jason's son. And I swear you could.
You could. But, you know, he wears it much better than me.
No, that's what I'm saying. No, that's what I'm saying.
I'm saying he could play your son. All right.
So, Jared, so you're starting the domestic leg of the international tour or world tour. But what lap around the planet would this be for you guys? You've done it a few times.
Yeah, 600 or 700 probably. Are you kidding me? Not 600 or 700 laps.
No, no, I'm joking. We started, we actually didn't tour for about six years.
It was COVID and then we were finishing an album. So the last time we did a world tour was like 2018, did some dates in 2019.
But we just, we did a few festivals last year and then we started, this year I was filming Tron in Vancouver for four months. I can't wait for that.
Can't wait. Take it easy.
And then I had a couple weeks where we went to South America to start the tour. And then after Tron was done, we went off to Europe and just did seven, eight weeks in Europe, which was- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Jared, I don't know if you guys saw it. Did you start, did you announce your tour? Did I see this? Did you climb the Empire State Building or some shit? Yeah.
that what the fuck is that about just start just go ahead and take 45 minutes to tell us about this yeah just a little stunt to you know launch the tour I mean it's better than just putting it on you know exactly but how did how did you not how did you not vomit well don't jump ahead. Who comes up with this idea?

Let's talk about planning.

First of all, you're a rock climber.

So this wasn't out of the blue. No, no.

I mean, I've climbed buildings before,

and I've always been obsessed with...

Yeah, I mean, just obviously not like that,

but I've always been really fascinated

by the Empire State Building since I was a kid. Oh, wow.
You and King Kong, right? Just like, I gotta get up there. So how does that...
Alright. I did a tiny bit of rock climbing with my dad when I was a kid, enough to know that it's a certain kind of shoe, it's a boot, it's a friction boot, I think it's called, maybe something like that.
No, not at all, but that's okay. This is close.
It's called a rock climbing shoe. Yeah, that's it.
I'm going to write that down. And you need something jutting out of a flat surface to be able to kind of get some kind of a grip onto.
A building, almost by definition, is flat. So what makes you think you've climbed multiple buildings.
How do you get up there? How do you do it? Well, windowsills, if there's kind of a stone feature, use those. But a lot of times it's just the structure, the features on the building.
Were you hooked into something or were you just freestyling? Yeah, yeah. I mean went to the empire state building and they said no about a hundred times you asked kind of yeah we asked and we had we had to uh it was too big of an undertaking and there's a huge section of the building that's not climbable i mean it is how about the whole fucking thing but it was fun man it.
It was an incredible adventure and to sit up there for, you know, we actually did it two days in a row, kind of a day to climb it and another day to film it. But it was amazing.
Wait, so you're standing on the sidewalk, you're scouting it, right? You've got to take a look at it up close first. And you recognize that there is a path, that it is doable, that in other words, that first windowsill, you can literally reach and start your climb.
I mean, stuff like that. I just, the first step.
I was just going to say the first step. Yeah, the first step is getting them to say yes, getting permits to be able to do it.
But they didn't, right? No, they did. Because I think, you know what their big concern actually was, was it necessarily me falling? No, it was me falling on top of somebody and killing someone on the street.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But I had some climber friends of mine that looked at it, a guy named Alex Honnold from Free Solo, took a look at doing that at one point and had decided really that the first section of it was probably not climbable unless you wanted to die.
But the only way that I was able to do it was to get permission to get permits and I had to be roped up for the sections that I climbed, the sections that were climbable. But it was amazing.
Wait, so then you were going to free climb it? Yeah. I mean, there's, look, there's, there's a lot of terminology that gets confusing with climbing, but yeah, I had to be roped up while I climbed the Empire State Building.
Had I not, I would be dead because I did fall. And, you know, it's, it's a very, very difficult climb.
It's not something you can just kind of do without a rope. Yeah.
Jared, do you know that every night, and this is true, Jason, you'll adjust this, every single night you get roped up, right? You don't smoke it. I guess you chew it.
But you get a head full of rope every night. Wait a second.
So, Jared, Jared, I've seen a lot of those. I loved all those like Free Solo and the other one about the guys who climbed in Tibet, all those amazing Sherpas.
You know, that story, they climbed all those peaks. What was that one? They climbed like the seven peaks, was it? Yeah, it was called something like that.
Yes, I mean, but sort of that, the kind of, the one consistent thing about all of them was that they just had this, that thing that I don't think most people have, which I guess you have, which is that sort of, they're missing that thing of having fear that most of us have, which that I have, you know, I start to get weak. My knees get weak when I climb a ladder that's above 10's above 10 feet.
You know what I mean? I'm like, fuck man, if I fall, I'm going to die. Right.
And so my question is for you is because all those people seem to have it and you have it, did you always have that or did you kind of, did it just over time develop? No, I still get, uh, yeah, I, I, I experience fear when I'm climbing all the time. I mean, that's what keeps you alive.
But I climb with Alex quite a bit. He's a good friend.
I climb with Jimmy Chin, who's about to go to, I think he's gonna ski down Everest or something crazy. No way.
But yeah, these guys, they're professionals. I'm an amateur.
I do this for fun. It's a hobby for me.
But there are a lot of times you have to negotiate with fear. You have to have a conversation with yourself.
And it's a fascinating thing because I've never heard people talk about death more than friends of mine that are climbing all the time you know it's a common you're really close to death and I think in a way you're really also maybe a bit closer to life right I free dive as well and you know that's something where you're always having a conversation with yourself about negotiating your limits negotiating fear but i don't know i love it i think it's really fun at the end of the day it's just fun is there any time that you actually got really close to that that moment of death yeah like oh yeah yeah i was climbing with alex and uh and red rock where i live i live in nevada now by the way i moved there during COVID. Oh, wow.
And I live 10 minutes from some of the best rock climbing in the world. And I was out there climbing with him one day and my rope got cut.
Oh, God. On a rock? I was about, yeah, 600 feet up.
I was climbing an overhang about 600 feet off the ground.

And I knew I was going to fall,

which is actually pretty normal in climbing.

You sometimes, you fall a couple of times

and that's how you learn.

That's how you get better.

That's how you kind of make it through.

And just, and for Tracy,

like you fall, but you don't fall to the ground

because you've got a carabiner into the rock at some sort of space. So you're only falling that distance, which is maybe, what, 20 feet, something like that? Exactly.
Sometimes it could be 50 feet. It could be two feet.
It really depends on the situation. But Alex was ahead of me, and he was placing the gear.
I took a fall. I swung out over the 600-foot abyss.
And was swinging i felt the rope go pop pop pop pop no i looked up and i could see it started to get core shot at the top i saw the white innards of the rope pop out and i knew in those few seconds milliseconds maybe that i was probably gonna die and if if i didn't grab a hold of the wall when i swung back in i was that was it so i swung back into the wall and i went to grab it at the last minute oh i lost it and i swung out again but i yelled lower me to alex unfortunately he heard me uh it was very windy day and he was about 100 feet above me on top of this mountain because he couldn't see me. I was on the overhang.
And as I said, he lowered me. He lowered so the next time that the rope got cut, it was in a different spot.
And that time I managed to make it on the wall and he figured out how to get down because he's superhuman. And we had to cut the rope and kind of negotiate our way down the mountain but it was yeah that was pretty fun yeah and then like dude i would have been first of all all the clothing i was wearing would have to be thrown out yeah right right it would be i would be my pants would be filled with defecate sean one time what was the thing sean you said at the grove you and you and scotty parked on p4 and you ended up taking the stairs all the way down right because the elevator is broken what we're saying yeah that's right yeah that was my scariest moment that was the story so at the end of it Alex was like you want to do it again I was like you're out of your fucking mind yeah right fucking mean man yeah and we will be right back.

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Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about it all the time, is Scotty.
And of course, my two besties, Will and Jason. Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it.
And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist and I've been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great. So think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols.
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And now back to the show. But Jared, talk to me about how you, what is that conversation with yourself when you negotiate with yourself about fear? Because I'm sure it's not just exclusive to rock climbing.
It's about, you know, getting up in front of thousands and thousands of people, performing with 30 Seconds to Mars, or taking on some of these incredibly ambitious roles, which you pull off like no one's business.

What is that?

How is, I mean, I know it's a deeply personal conversation people have with themselves about kind of gearing up for stuff and asking yourself to give what you got.

But, you know, give us as much as you're comfortable giving about,

because you clearly have a lot of, it's not confidence.

It's just, you tell me what it is because you have it. Well, I mean, thank you.
I appreciate it. But I think you guys do that all the time.
I mean, some of the scariest stuff. It's different.
You know what can scare me more than a lot of things is having to speak in front of a lot of people. Yeah, I don't do same up on stage with a spotlight yeah as myself with a microphone it's bizarre to come on stage most nights of the week as you are as well and you know even this is a public stage it's you know so that that can always you know when you're just up there and it's you and your words that can be a little intimidating but um i don't know i i think you know there's an inevit Like when I'm on tour, you have to go on stage.
And the weird thing about being, maybe you guys have felt this as well. I feel more comfortable on stage than I do sitting here talking to you or I would talking to a person at dinner.
Like I feel once the show is begun. Because that's a character maybe? No, no, no, no, no.
As a lead man? No, no, no. The music is, being on stage is a total opposite.
It's the revelation of oneself. It's showing and sharing who you really are.
Uh-huh. You know what? That's where, yeah.
No, really quick. I was just going to say at my wedding to Scotty, my husband, there was like 10 people at our wedding.
We were going to do like 1,000. And my opening in my wedding vows, I said, I feel incredibly comfortable in front of thousands of people or one person, but this is right in the middle of that, and that's where I feel the worst.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. Sometimes I have acoustic guitar.
I'm sitting there in the middle of an arena or somewhere, and it just feels... Terrifying.
No, it feels absolutely amazing. It's so comfortable.
It's so... I'm totally at peace, and it's a magical thing.
By the way, we're all this similar ages, and I have to say I was talking to my brother, and my brother's a massive fan of the show. I know your brother.
I have a listener. He's been telling me from the very beginning, you got to listen to the show.
You got to listen. Texting me all the time.
Oh my God, this happened on the show. It's like, okay, I'm going to listen to the goddamn show.
Wait, Jared, you know that I know Shannon Lowe. We have mutual friends.
I know Shannon Lowe. Oh, nice.
He's a he's a great guy he's the best he's a great guy for people that don't know that are listening he's the better half of 30 seconds to mars and we've been doing the band together since we were kids that's so great you know to be 52 at this point and to be on the on the road with your brother yeah like there's not a night that goes by where i don't look at him and just share a moment of gratitude how lucky we are to be. I want to come back to that.
But before we leave this thing, just so I sort of close the loop on it, it sounds like what you're saying is there's a belief in yourself that you find at the most critical moments that fuels you through something that might be insurmountable to some others that might not have that level of belief that your ability to go through something that might be really super challenging? Is that what it is? I'm of the thinking that I actually don't have anything special to offer. I really believe that everyone could basically do anything that I do anytime they want to.
It's a matter of a little bit of faith and a lot of hard work. That's how I look at it.
I think everybody could. But what's the faith? I guess that's the part.
It's faith in yourself, right? It's belief that you can get it done and that you have the opportunity to make yourself proud and you're probably not going to let yourself down. And the people around you too, you know? Right.
The people around you, that's a big driver for me is to kind of make sure I don't let anyone anyone down whether i'm working on a film or i'm on stage and you know the the great thing that i found out about being on tour being on stage is like i'm not there for me i'm there for the audience and for my brother and i am in service every night to make sure the person that worked their ass off to buy a concert ticket which aren't cheap these days by the way has a night that they're never going to forget and I'm in search of that every night all night and that's a lucky place it's interesting you say that and I think it's I also I also have a similar thought process which is that there are a thousand people who can do what I do.

And I think about it all the time.

It might be a bigger number.

But sorry, I'm going to cut you off.

Sorry, within the greater Los Angeles area at any given time.

Sorry to make a cut.

It's true.

Sorry, Will, finish your point.

I'm not sure. at any given time.
Sorry to make a cut. It's true.
Sorry, Will, finish your point. That was rude.
That was fucking rude. No, no, no.
No, no. Listen, I get it.
You're hungry. Sorry.
So, so, so, but what I wanted to know about was when you say, it's interesting when you say, like, you don't want to disappoint anybody, you don't want to let anybody down. And when you're on tour and you're on stage, is that your brother? Is that Shannon? When you're working on a film, is that all the people around you? Is that the people at home? Is that an idea, sort of a general idea of letting people down? Like, is that something you've always had? had no i think it's all of the above um and you know i don't carry that with me as a burden i kind of for me that's fuel for the fire and um you know i i don't know maybe you guys feel this way too but when i'm on set i feel like it's my job to try and be one of the hardest working people on the set yeah it's my job to absolutely deliver every single time that i come to set of course you're going to fail but that's the goal yeah to be over prepared to know my lines to know your lines to know to have a thousand ideas uh to bring to the table and to do and to really just to die for it and to also try to be the kindest person that I can be every single day and to be supportive and be a good partner like those are the simple things that that kind of continue to get me through it but when you're as prepared as you are like you just described that eliminates fear that true.
Yeah, that's very well said. I think preparation is definitely a confidence builder.
And sometimes if I haven't been on tour for a long time, I'm like, and we have a huge show and there's a ton of people out there and I'm like, oh my God, what do I do? And then you get out there and you body remembers. All of this sounds like a really, really good work ethic and a deep sense of discipline and focus.
Did you have that as a young kid? Was that something that your mom taught you? Did you discover it in school? Or did you just kind of come out of the box with it? my mom yeah my mom was and is a great teacher yeah you know she's um and a large part i dedicated my oscar speech to my mother yeah and i had an opportunity i always think like by the way i never thought that i would win a single award in my entire life those are's much deserved. Never, never, never, never, never would happen to me.
Never, ever. So I was like, well, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to really thank the people in my life that have inspired and encouraged me.
And first and foremost, that's my mom. And my mom, she was a single mom.
We grew up

really poor. And, you know, like food stamp poor.
I was born in Louisiana, as was my brother. And, you know, my mother was high school dropout, but put herself back through school with two kids, Say good mom.

And got a nursing degree.

And really worked and fought really hard to make a better life for herself and her kids. And you watched that, you observed that.
And I saw that, and I saw her do, if there was a shift that came up, she would take that. I saw her do those extra, I don't know, but they were these really long shifts, at least 12 hours.
And then she would do night shifts. And I saw her work and I saw her dedication.
And I watched her educate herself. I watched her.
And it taught me a lot. And she was always very creative and really kind of broke the mold in her family.
So that was a big lesson for me. All right, so you leave Louisiana.
Where do you go from there? Where does the acting and the music bug start to bite you? Yeah. Well, I was in art school and studying to be a painter.
Oh, nice. Yeah.
There's nothing you can't do. I was like, after a stint, kind of, it's funny, you know, I'm negotiating in my head things that I want to talk about or not because I actually don't talk about a lot of this stuff.
We appreciate that, the fact that you're- But it's something in my life too. I'm like, I'm negotiating as well of like, you know, how do you, you know, what do you share? What do you not? As I've gotten older- What do you keep to yourself? Yeah, and I've been less precious about it.
And there nothing fun about a safe interview, I've always felt. And then you want to share things and it's beautiful to share things.
Can I say this? Maybe this will prime me a little bit. I've been joking recently that I know, I've been saying to people, for a guy who's a loudmouth know-it-all, me, I know embarrassingly little about art.
And it's been like this blind spot that I've had my whole life. And I kind of started to own it recently.
And from the moment I started saying that, I've started meeting all these artists, painters. I've met three new painters in the last 24 hours alone who revealed to me, oh, I'm a painter.
And so I've been talking, and I've been reading this book about the Kooning I'm boring these guys about, but I'm reading this book about, and it's been, it's kind of like now because I've been putting it out there, it's been coming. And I said to Alessandro, my partner this morning, we rode our bikes down to the beach.
I'm out here in Long Island. I rode my bike down to the beach and I said, I can't believe I'm saying this.
I think I'm going to start painting. Yeah, I get it.
I love that. And I'm embarrassed because I feel like a fucking cliche.
I get it. I don't give a shit.
I love it. I think it's great.
I fucking feel it. And I don't know anything.
I really don't. I'm a fucking novice of novices.
But I feel really connected to it. That's awesome.
Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Do you still do it, Jared? You know, I don't paint that much. I draw sometimes and I put a lot of my creative energy.
And by the way, I think that's one of the important things in life is to keep learning, to keep... I always say I love to be the dumbest guy in the room.
Yeah. And that's a fascinating room to be in.
I wish Sean would say that. I do a lot of stuff.
Yeah, and fortunately, I have the opportunity to do that quite a bit. Same here.
But no, I think it's great to continue to learn to do new things and just to be a beginner again. Do you get knee-deep in the artwork for the albums and stuff like that? Oh, in artwork? Too much, probably.
Yeah. I'm the guy that makes like a thousand different album covers.
But I think, yeah, but album artwork, it's always consistently been like, to me, like really cool. Or like concert t-shirt designs and all that kind of stuff.
I'm a big fucking radiohead freak. I've been doing that like every three days we're doing a new t-shirt design.
And I mean, it's something, it's a consistent thing. I love that.
But with the album artwork, I did a thousand different covers. And then, you know what I did? I did this little art project where I was taking a photo of the sky every day, right? And, you know, after about three months, it gets really annoying, by the way, I'll tell you.
I'd say to my assistant, I'd be like, can you just grab that photo today? I mean, I'm too busy. It wasn't from the same place every day, right? No, but it's anywhere you are.
It's just like, oh, I forgot. And then you try to make up for it.
But anyway, I had hundreds of photos of these guys. And I thought, oh, maybe that's an album cover.
So I did 10 different album covers just basically cell phone pictures of the sky and that ended up being kind of the basis of our artwork for our new album. That's cool.
Which is called It's the End of the World but It's a Beautiful Day. So it ended up being a nice space.
But by the way, Sean, you got accused of it. Didn't you have hundreds of photos of these guys? No, he said skies.
He said skies. Got it.

Got it.

I would take hundreds of photos of them.

And then I'd hear a knock on my door. Sorry.

My hearing is so bad.

My hearing is so bad.

Jared, you reminded me of like-

Reminders of the same guy.

You reminded me of this really cool documentary

I read about you directed

where you simultaneously filmed

a day in the life of the 50 different states? Am I describing that? Yeah, I did something called the Day in the Life of America. Our previous album in 2018 was called America.
Yeah. And it was that time when the world was kind of getting a little wild.
It still hasn't recovered, I think, but specifically America. But anyway, yeah, I was inspired by a book that I had when I was a kid, National Geographic, where they took photos in every state on a single day.
So we sent camera crews. We actually had 92 crews all over the country in every state in Puerto Rico and as well in Alaska.
And we made this documentary about kind of one day, and it was fascinating. We had the birth of a child.
We had someone pass away on camera. I mean, it was like, it was a really, we saw it all.
And it was on 4th of July, so we had all the fireworks. Oh, no way, that's cool.
How do you like that? How do you like directing and then directing narrative versus documentary? I know you do a lot of producing too. Are those areas that you're looking to challenge yourself on as well? Well, I started off in, I was a painter in art school and then I took photography class and I got obsessed.
I'd be in the darkroom, you know, I don't know if you guys have ever done that, but that's a really fun thing to do to kind of shoot and develop your... Go ahead, Will.
That's a great tee up for you for Sean. No, no, no.
Something in a darkroom? No? Hundreds of these guys in a darkroom? Sean, I keep coming up. You work on it and come back and interrupt them.
But wait, wait, wait. Jared, I want to know about you becoming a painter.
What was that? Well, I grew up around. My mom had a hippie mom, and she had a lot of really creative friends.
And I always thought that I would either be a painter, I don't know. My dad was a painter and a photographer, for real.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
I love both those things. It was, really.

It's awesome.

My mom is a great photographer,

and I grew up around seeing her photos,

and she taught me a lot about photography when I was a kid.

So one day, this school had a performing arts section to it,

and I would go over and watch the actors,

and I always thought, man, that is terrifying. They are so brave, what they're doing, running around out there on stage.
And I didn't understand any of it. I was like, this is just insane.
But I asked the school, I started taking a film class, like film as kind of fine art, not like film as cinema, as Hollywood movies. So I fell in love with that.
Just like film history, you'd like watch classics? No, no, we would go, they had like Bolex cameras that you'd rent. Filmmaking.
Yeah, so you'd shoot film, black and white film film and then you'd have to send it away to get developed and we would we would edit using razor blades and tape and uh i mean there wasn't a single computer i remember the first computer that came in to that art school was a macintosh and nobody used it you know just sat in the corner the apple too um yeah yeah so anyway i i was i was studying painting i fell on photography i took a film class i switched my major to film and then i asked the school to create a class for directors about acting and i bothered him i went there maybe 200 times and the lady kind of looked at me and frustrated one day and says, you know what? I admire your persistence. And she like, you know, she just like- What does that mean? Directors for acting? Acting for directors, sorry.
Acting for directors, gotcha. Acting for directors.
So I thought like, okay, I'm studying film, even though it was a kind of arty-farty fine art film. But we should understand what acting is.
But I had this little secret. I thought, this is interesting.
Yeah. And it got more attention in your mind than directing.
Well, they created the class after I bugged them. And there was like, I don't know, maybe four or five people.
We were doing, you know, acting like animals and doing all these experiments these experiments and you know i i don't know how much i learned in that class but um shortly after that i i had dropped out of college i ended up in california to pursue acting music and acting yeah yeah that's awesome unbelievable it's really it's really cool how you've been able to keep but it's it just like, as I said sort of in my crappy intro, that you've been incredibly successful in both of these careers, like enormously successful, yet you've managed to not lean in and take the bait and eat the junk food that propels that kind of success and notoriety into celebrity-ness, if that's a word. It's not.
It's just not. Well, we all fail a lot, right? I mean, I always say I fail more than anybody that I know.
I fail all the time. Well, you're just getting to know me.
I know. I've failed a lot.
But to Jason's point, it's like you don't get sucked into that. Is that a conscious decision? Do you say no to a lot of things because you like to stay private? Do you say no because you don't want to deal with it? I mean, it's just not you.
Yeah, I mean, I'm actually an introvert, which is bizarre because of my choices out there as far as work goes. Yeah, because you're a movie star and you're in a rock band.
It doesn't seem like a perfect spot for an introvert to live. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's a strange thing.
But when I'm done with a show, I literally leave the show. Yeah, I go to the hotel room, get food, and turn on Netflix, and that's it.
Yeah, yeah. Donzel Washington.
Yeah, wow. We'll be right back.
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And back to the show. What is, do you, aside from that sort of that decompression routine of just kind of getting quiet, getting by yourself, watching little TV.
Is there anything else that you can really rely on that gets you to your small self? Is it reading? Is there a video game that you play or whatever, an app on the phone? Willie and I, we play freaking word games on on the app, on the phone. Do you have golf sometimes gets us quiet? Yeah, for me, I have work.
I love to work. That's my favorite thing in the world to do.
I love to work, work, and work some more. And if I have some time, I like to climb.
And then I like to free dive, which I just started a couple of years ago.

What's free?

Yeah, I want to talk about that.

Free dive off a cliff into the ocean. Is that like the big blue?

Like that Luc Pesson film?

Yeah, Le Grand Bleu.

Le Grand Bleu, c'est incroyable.

C'est le point cigarette.

Well, I take one cigarette.

No, I see my mistress.

I have a coffee.

I don't know. And then there's...
Eh bien, c'est mistress. I have a coffee.
I don't know. Cuckoo.
Cuckoo. Every French person, Sean, every French person that comes in the room is sort of like saying hi and they'll go, cuckoo.
Why is that? I had this woman who I worked with when I was living in the south of France. I could hear her from the other hand.
Coucou! Shut the fuck! Mon dieu. Why cuckoo? Mon dieu.
Arrête avec tout ça. Je m'énerve.
Why do they say cuckoo? It's like the Englishman with the pip-pip, right? Yeah, it's just kind of like a... It's almost like a yoo-hoo, but it's like...
Oh, cuckoo! But wait, so this is diving without oxygen. Yeah, it's not...
A lot of people, when you say free dive, a lot of people think jumping off of cliffs. Okay, like me.
Free diving is either people focus on depth, people focus on time. There's static diving, there's free diving.
What kind of depths are we talking about right now? I like to dive through caves. That's my thing.
Oh, God. That's a willy.
But not with a tank. Right.
With no tank. So there's no way out, Will.
But again, I'm a beginner. I'm a beginner rock climber.
I'm a beginner free diver. I'm definitely an amateur.
Well, your beginning ass just went up the Empire State Building and you're diving in caves. So you're doing okay.
I'm doing okay. How long can you stay under? You can stay under.
Let me guess. Let me guess.
Let me guess. I don't really go for time.
Okay, but let me guess how long you can hold your breath. And I know this oversimplifies things.
It dumbs it down for us idiots. I'll bet that you can get to three minutes pretty easily.
Will, Sean, do you have any guesses? I was just thinking about how long I can stay under propofol. Or when you choke yourself out, how long you can stay before that.
When I get my belt around the top of the door, Jim, when I'm trying to squeeze one out. I'm going to say, what's the record? I'm going to say three and a half minutes, Jared.
That's my, Jason said three. I'm going to say, what's the record? Because I saw something on 60 minutes.
I'm going to say three and a half minutes, Jared. Jason said three.
I'm going to say four. I'll say four.
Jared? Absolutely, yeah. Three minutes for sure, four minutes for sure.
No way. So it goes longer.
Oh, people go a lot longer. That's not a lot for, that's not, it's not impressive at all in the world right i mean that is a beginner um now are there uh okay so where are the where where are the great caves um in majorca sardinia um corsica all the beautiful places uh i just was in greece there was some good stuff there um but i i focus on depth and I focus on caves.
The deepest I've gone is 108 feet. Jesus Christ.
Well, you need 10 minutes to re-acclimate or whatever as you come back up, don't you? No, you don't have to. No.
Really? That's only with scuba diving. Wow.
Okay. So you just use your lungs and that's it.
He doesn't know anything. Jared, why don't you just like take up reading men or something? Why don't you jump off cliffs or swimming in the cliffs? Why don't you just get involved with The Crown? You know, there's a bunch of seasons you can watch.
You know, there are a lot of shows I've never seen that I've been waiting to see. What do you want to see? What do you want to see that you feel like you missed out? What was the Game of Thrones I never saw? I never saw the first season.
By the way, I never saw The Simpsons. I never saw Family Guy.
I never saw South Park. Me too.
But I did see Ozark, and I would annoyingly email Jason often with thoughts on the plot developments and the characters and how much I love the show and just kind of fawning but when you give me notes I'd remind him we're locked, picture's locked so let's keep it to compliments I have a question for all three of you because you're all wonderfully sober but do you think you do these these climb these divings, like all these things because they take the place, it's a rush that takes the place of a drug? No, I don't think so. I find them to be very peaceful when I climb and when I dive.
I mean, you're really, you have to remain peaceful. If you're a hundred feet under the water, you know, sometimes what's wild is you have this, you do have a conversation about death with yourself, because it's scary sometimes.
And then you have these moments of peace that are just outstanding. It's almost like drugs sometimes or alcohol, at least for me, was sort of the fun of kind of escaping from being inside myself and kind of, you know, adding a little of this and adding a little of that and going to sort of a different version of myself.
Whereas it sounds like your experience is the opposite arrow and it's just a real internal thing. Well, it compels you into the moment.
Yeah. Being on stage, being underwater, climbing a rock, that you have to be present.
You don't have a choice. You have to be so present.
And you're not thinking about your phone. You're not thinking about your job, your girlfriend, your boyfriend.
You don't think about any of that. You're thinking about what's right in front of you.
So it's incredibly simple and primal, I think, in some ways. Yeah, I should note that I don't think I've been wonderfully sober.
I think I've had a few missteps over the years, definitely. And for me, it's been a process.
No, of course it's okay. It's been a process for me, or as we say in Canada, a process.
Sure. But you get to know yourself a little bit better.
And I do find those things. It's a combination of what Jared said and what Jason said, which is for me is about being present and being okay with being present and trying to accept where I am.
And it's all about, right, it's all about powerlessness and all that sort of stuff and realizing it and realizing where you are where you are and where you sit in the world i don't know about you guys i've thought and not to a to a to a crazy degree but i've been thinking a lot more about my mortality yeah the last few years on the back side yeah and i think and i think about i was saying last night i went i was jared you might have heard me waxing on about this memorial I went to,

and I was thinking about,

we all are here for this one visit.

We're not making another trip.

We've got five minutes left.

We're on this,

and so it better be good,

and we better be happy,

and we're all just trying to figure out

how to get through it the best way.

I think I'm coming back.

I want to come back as Jared. I know, Jared, it would be pretty good.
But wait, Jared, I have two questions really fast. One is about Tron, because I'm a huge fan of the franchise.
Yeah, he's a big sci-fi fan. Are you as well, Jared? Is that what brought you to this? Super fan.
Really? Super, super, super, super fan. Tron and Blade Runner were the two movies that really changed my life.
And now you've been in both. Yeah, bizarre.
So I'm living in my simulation over here for sure. Right.
What can you tell us about Tron without revealing? We've been developing it for almost 10 years. Yeah.
Wow. And it's called Tron Ares.
Is it pick up right where the last one left off? In a way, yeah, it does I'm super excited and for me, one of the highlights was working with Jeff Bridges I was just going to say, any conversations with him on this one? Oh God, he's just the best I had one take where I literally had take where I had to literally, I had to say cut. And they were like, what's wrong? Some of the guys, I was like, no, I just can't stop fucking smiling.
Yeah. I love that guy.
He's every, you know, it's money back guarantee. That motherfucker gives you everything you ever wanted.
Everything all the time. He's the best.
But I think it's a great idea. And correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it where the Tron world gets transferred into the real world? Yeah, it's kind of the opposite.
It's such a great idea. A little bit of the Terminator thing where that technology comes out into Earth.
Oh, I like that. So smart.
I like that. It puts it in context that we can kind of understand a little bit better maybe too.
And then tell me, because I do a lot of theater, I love horror stories about live shows and I know you do a lot of live shows. Was there any kind of crazy fan interaction? Somebody rushed the stage.
Oh, every night. Completely lost the lyrics.
Every night. We just played, I mean, the show in Kadat was incredible.
I mean, I fell in love with the entire audience. It was the craziest group of shit-kicking, awesome Americans you've ever seen in your life.
Absolutely insane. There were two people dressed like Beetlejuice.
Another guy came. I literally brought a guy on stage who was wearing a...
Was it an American flag Speedo or was it just an American flag speedo that's where it went Will but let me tell you I was just like I was smiling the whole time I'm so grateful to be in front of these people and it was just incredible so yeah I've had the worst things happen and the most amazing. Every night there's a catastrophe of some kind like the mic goes out, you fall over.
Right. You're playing all these major, major cities around the world but I also see here you got a couple sold out shows coming up in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan as well.
What? Wait, wait, wait, what. What's it like touring all these incredible corners of the earth? Do you get out and visit the local markets? And do you have time to plant for a day or two? Are you on to the next place always? Oh, absolutely.
Even yesterday, I bought a bicycle a couple of days ago in Wisconsin. So we just take that out after the show, before the show on the day off, explore the cities.
Wow. Yeah.
And this summer we were in Paris and in London, but we're also in Poland and we're in Italy and then we're headed to Sweden and to Kazakhstan. It's just incredible.
Do you have a thing that is a constant in each one of these cities that you like to check out whether it be the food or the museums or the churches or the whatever that you just have to see their version no I think you know what I love to do when I'm on tour is I love to walk around the cities and kind of get away from the tourist areas and walk through like residential areas and see how people are living I find that's a really good way to fuel the culture of a specific place. But the nice thing is it's not going to Poland for the first time.
It's going for the 10th time, the 15th time. Because you go back to that restaurant that you found seven times ago.
You have a connection with the people and the place and the food. I want to see you play do you have any plans to come through la anytime soon yeah you know we are we didn't um put an la date on this tour yeah strategically we actually are going to play a show next year which is the 20th anniversary of our breakthrough album, which was called A Beautiful Lie.
Yeah. And we are going to play a show in Los Angeles to celebrate that.
Oh, that's great. That's great.
That's next year. Yeah.
And do you have a venue picked yet? I mean, are we making news? You know, we're making news, but it'll either be a Hollywood Bowl or a forum or something like that.

Oh, yeah. Great.
I want to see that.

Jared, you've done so many things.

Is there something you look at other people

doing that you won't do?

That you're like, oh, I dive,

I climb, I do movies,

I play in front of millions of people?

You know what? Yeah, theater.

Oh, really?

You'd be so good on stage.

I'm going to tell you why.

Because I have so much respect for it.

And I know how hard it is because I've had so many friends do it that I just feel like I'd rather enjoy that than be a part of it. I'm also on stage a lot as it is, so I don't have maybe the same itch that other people may have to kind of perform live because I'm getting pretty satisfied on that other side of it.
But man, what- I'm going to make a prediction that you're going to do a play in the next five years and you're going to win a Tony just like Sweet Shawnee Hayes did. Yeah.
I know, congrats on that. I heard about that.
Will you not be surprised when I hit you with a text when you come to town next year? I'm going to come rush the stage with my Speedo flag outfit. So it was you.
Thank you. It was me.
I would love for you to come. I would love for you to come and introduce a song.
Ooh, that would be fun. That would be so great.
You could sing a song, you could play the drums, you could play the guitar. I don't even sing in the shower.
You don't want that. But I thank you so, so, so, so much for this hour, buddy.
Yeah, Jared, it's so great to talk to you. I hate that it's got to be a podcast so that we can visit, but I'll take what I can get.
And good luck. It's an absolute honor to be here with you guys and I'm really blown away by what you've created.

It's something so special.

It's touched so many people

and my brother's going to be psyched.

I didn't tell him

I was doing it this morning.

Oh, that's cool.

Oh, great.

Tell him hi.

All right.

Well, enjoy the rest of your floor, pal.

My first podcast.

So thank you.

You crushed it.

You crushed it.

You absolutely destroyed it.

Apologies to everyone if I fucked it up, but a little practice. No you did not no you killed it you killed it thanks Jared I appreciate it thanks for being here Jared thank you Jared we love you we love you Jared Lato wow I'm looking to put this on there you go you can do that or you can slam it yeah that is that is that's Jared Leto I just I love the guy he's just always so smooth and personable, honest, real.
I could have talked to him for two more hours. We'll get a number for him and then we'll make that happen.
But he's like, I didn't want to embarrass him with the acting stuff because know that, like Joaquin,

like,

they're both,

like,

for my money,

top five actors in the world.

For sure.

And they just don't like

to talk about

how fucking great they are

and the roles that they do

and the process of it.

And probably our listeners

don't want to hear

about that shit either,

you know,

the process.

No,

but you know what?

He's fucking so goddamn good.

Yeah.

He's so good, JB.

And you're so right. And that is one of those things that those, the great actors all kind of share, which is they don't talk about their process in that way.
Yeah, right. They're not like, hey, let me show you.
It's like a magician. Like, I'm not telling you how the fucking trip goes.
Just enjoy it. Yeah, they're not looking for, they're like, let the performance speak for itself.
Yeah. And then talk to you about my life and stuff, but I'm not going to kind of walk you through so that you're impressed with my process.
Right, or you're starting to identify those things you heard him talk about the next time you see the performance instead of enjoying sort of like pretending that he's somebody else, which is all it's about. It's simple.
Right. Yeah.
He's... Well, he's good.
It's decided. He's really good at what he does.
Yeah. And a good dude.
And by the way, what he does, and then he has this... And it's so...
It's a full-blown rock band. Yeah, you can't call it a sideline.
Yeah, no, I know. successful than his acting career potentially i mean 15 million albums and it's been it's been it's been around for 26 years and they're they're playing arenas you know come on that's that's like winning an oscar every year yeah that works so hard he he works harder than than than you obviously sean right now working on a buy.
Yeah. No, I was just going to say, no, I was looking at...

The computer. That works so hard.
He works harder than, obviously, Sean right now working on a buy.

Yeah.

No, I was just going to say.

No, I was looking at.

Fucking watching your face is embarrassing.

I was going to look at what he won the Oscar for because I know he won an Oscar for him.

What was the name of the movie?

What was it called?

You tell us.

It's Dallas Buyers Club.

Beautiful.

Buyers.

Beautiful, Sean.

Bye. Bye.
I can see you. Sorry, bye.
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Hey friends, Jason here. We're so excited the SmartList has officially joined the SiriusXM family.
We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love. If you want to be the first to hear new episodes ad-free and a whole week early, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today.
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