"Kelly Clarkson"

Hey guys, it's spring cleaning time. Let's start with your mop because that overgrown winter hair isn't doing you any favors.
At Sport Clips Haircuts, they've got pro stylists who know men's hair, TVs playing sports 24-7, and a place built for guys to get a great cut without the hassle. No appointments, no stress, just a fresh cut and a place made for you.
So shake off the winter scruff and step into spring looking fresh because they got you covered. Sport Clips, it's a game changer.
While Hilton is always expected to have top-notch service, you'd be surprised at the unexpected places they're offering it now. They've partnered with AutoCamp, which offers insanely cool airstreams in iconic outdoor destinations.
Hilton also has an exclusive partnership with small luxury hotels of the world, providing Hilton Honors members access to luxury boutique hotels across the globe. And they've added romantic and refined nomad hotels and graduate hotels in your favorite college towns to their portfolio.
Explore all the new ways to stay with those Hilton honors points you've been saving at Hilton.com. Hilton for the stay.
Guys, who's fired up to do some podcasting? What kind of energy do you feel when you're going to just podcast the shit out of something? I'm going to do it. I raced downstairs.
I didn't even take a shower. I put my headphones on.
I saw you guys. I got really excited.
We're going to chat today, and then I'm going to take a shower. You don't have anything prepared for this cold open? You didn't eat anything? No.
I usually have

a hot cup. What are you holding in your hand?

That's for his little wrist

when he's typing. Do you do that much typing

where you need a little pad for your wrists?

I just had

carpal tunnel in my hand. Uh-huh.
And then what

happened? He decided to

use the other hand. Alright.
Good for you.

Welcome to Smartless.

Smart.

Smart. Smart.
Lattice.

Smart.

Lattice.

Smart.

Lattice.

So we already know that our mystery guest is a female and she's no stranger to a giggle. She keeps it light.
She likes to giggle. Yeah.
And that's what we know so far. Are you doing early guessing game? Yeah.
Let's start. You know what? Give me the first letter of the first name.
No. Okay.
First letter of the last name. No.
Okay. Jesus.
No. Alright.
I just decided, I was like, you know what? You know what? No. I should go, yes, and and I should, right? No.
Alright, well then let's get into our, let's get into our opening patter. Or some patter.
Sean, did you have, do you have anything prepared? Here we go. But I'm drinking tea.
I was going to ask you, do you leave your tea bags in or do you take them out? Today mine are in. There's something sexual about that.
I know. There is something.
When's the last time you were tea bagged in or out? Was I tea bagged in? Now, Sean, are you a little bit under the web? He is. And I was just telling Jason, I hope I didn't get you guys sick on Tuesday.
on tuesday and i remind i don't think i did i reminded him that it was all there was no open mouth kissing at all it was all closed i kept asking you actually to stop kissing and don't look at me because you usually say eyes on me open eyes eyes on me eyes please eyes please hey that's a good question when you guys your significant other, do you keep your eyes open or do you close them? Whole time. The whole time open? Wide open.
Looking for reaction. I like to stare right into the makeup artist's eyes when they're powdering me.
It really freaks them out. Yeah.
No blinking. just hard eye contact when they're powdering me.

Tracy, getting powdered is something that's common and not freaky for people in front of the camera. But Jason, you famously don't wear a lot of makeup when you do your gigs.
Well, the stuff I've been doing lately, you're not meant to look healthy or happy. You got that covered.
And that role you've been playing for 20 years yeah i was gonna i'm going into a new thing yeah or it's i just don't think i'm gonna be much in the makeup trailer at all yeah yeah you got a real look going these days i know right this stupid hair i think i do need to get it thinned out it's no no no no oh what a bummer hair is too thick it's too thick i. I mean...
Now, Shawnee, I noticed you sneezing.

No, no, I coughed.

That was a cough.

Oh, that was a cough.

Yeah, but I'm saying if you guys don't feel anything by Saturday or Sunday,

you're in the clear.

Okay.

I got to wait.

There's a five-day incubation period in your virus?

Yeah.

Great.

No, I think we're fine.

I think we're all right.

What about Scotty?

Does he have it?

He had it before, but I didn't get sick from him. Well, we know why.
Why? Listener, Sean's really on the skids with Scotty. There's a countdown for the...
No. I'll be available any minute.
You guys are about the best couple I've ever met. I know.
We all have great partners. We do.
And I was describing Scotty the other day to somebody who's asking me, and I said he's just the nicest, sweetest dude. He's so considerate.
He is, and he looks like a box. He's in the shape of a box.
Okay. Well, I didn't get into that.
A boxy bear. But he is such a sweet sort of legitimately like considerate person.
Yeah, he's the nicest person I've ever known. And not from Canada.
I know. I know.
You'd think he would be. Shockingly.
I know. Because all those Canadians are super nice.
Will introduced Sean and I to a couple of Canadians the other day who were just like right out of the middle of the page for like, well, people tell you Canadians are friendly, but like, I don't know. Well, then you meet them.
It's like, yeah. Yeah.
They're all like the nicest people in the world. I know.
And it's not learned. It's not contrived.
It's just so genuine. Well, you know, Paul is Canadian, but Jenny is American.
I wasn't getting as nice a vibe off of her. Yeah, that's interesting.
That's a good point. You're getting a selfish kind of self-absorbed.
Something domestic, yeah. I tell you who's got a pretty good vibe.
Uh-oh. This is a segue.
Here comes giggles. I tell you who's got a pretty good vibe is our guest today.
Do you like people who can do different things? She is a juggler from northern Saskatchewan. They can go on to Broadway.
Sean, you like Broadway? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can go on to Broadway.
They can sing songs. They can sell records.
They can sell 25 million albums worldwide, 40 million singles. What? Have a multi-Emmy award winning

daytime talk show.

Can be really

plugged into the heart of America

because this person was found

and discovered

in the heart of America.

She's one of the most successful

of all time.

Yes, guys, it's Kelly Clarkson!

Yeah, I got it. Hi, Kelly.

I was like, hello.

Willie guessed my guest the other day.

Now I got you back.

I know you did.

You did.

Hi, Kelly Clarkson.

Hi, Kelly Clarkson.

Kelly, I haven't seen you since Saturday Night Live, maybe?

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, so I was going to bring it up.

I don't even know if you, I was like, I don't know if you remember that I was on there with you, but. Of course.
I was terrified of you. Oh.
Welcome. No, you were nice.
I was terrified of you. No, you were so nice.
I just, I was like, I literally, I remember telling my band, I was like, I had like a whole prep talk. I was like, don't fucking talk.
You're going to say something stupid. I was like, just smile and just stand there.
And I was like, very nervous. That whole week I was petrified.
Was that your first? Oh, you did amazing. And you were so nice.
I just think when you are a fan of someone so much so, and you love their like personality and they, you know, you're very charismatic, you're funny and quick. And so I was like, just don't, just don't say something stupid.
I don't think I even spoke much. You might want to withhold on the personality part.
Cause you know what I mean? Just give it a minute. Oh, I'm like a dry wit asshole.
So he's right down there. Oh, you're going to love him.
You're going to love him. You're going to love him.
Welcome to Smart Loose. Sorry, you're going to love him.
You're going to love him. Now I have a question him.
Yeah. Now, I have a question about, like, I remember, I'm so sorry you get these questions all the time.
That's okay, Sean. Go ahead.
But in 1999 or 2000 when American Idol first started, and then I remember Megan Mullally, who I did Will & Grace with. Yeah.
She's like, you've got to come watch. And I didn't watch the show until I'm in the last.
Remind Tracy what Will & Grace is. I love, no, I'm telling you, I love her and Nick.
I'm obsessed with them. They're them they're great yeah i know i love them too um and they and megan called me in her dressing room she's like you got to watch this show like what is it's american idol of course everybody knows the story you you know little town girl makes it big on the show and then becomes this big pop star blah blah so but there's a sense that i've always felt around you that america is like do you ever do you constantly get bombarded by people who feel like they had a hand in your success oh absolutely but I mean that's a very true statement so for all of us yeah I mean I think where would we be American audience but I mean I mean that show is so massive and it was and you were the first And then, so you're easy to root for because everybody loves you, and you're so likable, and I love you.
Debatable, but yes. But to see you go from the little town girl that nobody knew to every single thing that you conquered over the years, I imagine people come up to you on the street and just be like, have a sense of ownership almost in a different way.
Yeah. I mean, I think it works for me because like I said, I'm from a very small town.
So I'm kind of used to like that, like even doing like talent shows as a kid or like even doing musicals or, you know, I'm kind of used to like everyone knowing your name. It's It's like, cheers.
You know, like, I'm used to that vibe.

And I think that's why people are always like, oh, you're so, you know, open with, like, any human.

I'm like, yeah.

And on your talk show, you're just, you're very open.

You talk about everything.

Yeah, I do.

I love that, Kelly.

You're just like, well, it's not really that much of an effort to not be an asshole.

Like, what are you saying? Well, it depends on the person, Jason. Right.
Sometimes there's a lot of effort. Yeah.
But no, it's like, I think because I have that small town mentality, it's always been very easy for me. And I don't mind, like, I always say, I still at 41, like, will be at Walmart in Butte, Montana and go, thank you.
Because they're like, oh, I voted for you. And I'm like, thank you.
That changed my life. I was a pretty great, solid waitress.
But, like, I really like what I'm doing now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're like, thank you, but now you're blocking my Range Rover. Okay.
Wait, Kelly, Kelly, so speaking of that, like, now we're on that sort of American Idol thing. And I watch you, like everybody when that, especially that first season and you were undoubtedly, you're I would say, and I might get some pushback I think you're the greatest American Idol that there ever was, you were the first and you were the best by far I would not argue, I'm just kidding I know you wouldn't I'm just kidding No, but you legitimately have a great voice But without such a discovery, would that show have really carried on to the heights that it was? Like, look what they can find.
Yeah, who knows? I mean, believe me, it's taking everything I got right now. The entire time I just want to go, since you've been gone.
Anyway, but, and I love, but what was that process for you? How did that come about, American Idol? Like, you know, you saw an ad in a paper.

It was on Craigslist.

Like, how did that go down?

Oh, my God.

Craigslist was not around.

Was it not?

2001?

Was it?

2001, too?

Wait, let me see.

Can I see if I can get this right?

Yes.

I'd rather have her answer it, but okay.

No, but wait.

I'm curious to know if you know it.

Craigslist.

A friend challenged you to go on,

and if you went on and got on or won or something,

you'd get her a car or something like that?

Something like that, yes.

I'm sorry. Just to know if you know it.
A friend challenged you to go on, and if you went on and got on or won or something, you'd get her a car or something like that? Something like that, yes. Well, I literally, my place had burned down the Croft Apartments off of Melrose.
And it literally, the day we moved in, we had moved from this other place, and the day we moved in, it burned down. And I ended up having to sleep in my car for like three days and i was like okay i can't like i i can't sustain this so i was my plan was to go back home to texas makes more money come out because i don't know if y'all know but it's expensive to live in los angeles especially when broke with three jobs and anyway so i on my way home, one of my friends, Jebby, Jessica, told me about this

audition. On your way home from one of your jobs? Is that what it was? No, like on my way home from California to Texas.
Oh, to Texas. Okay, sorry.
Yeah, it was like right after I, yeah. And so I got home and I didn't know what it was.
I didn't even know it was a TV show until like the third audition.

Because, you know, they have you go and they had us go in like these just random rooms, like in like front of producers. And you don't know anybody.
You don't know what they're doing. Nobody had heard of Pop Idol, which there had been one season of Pop Idol in the UK.
Nobody knew that. And so I didn't know what it was.
And anyway, I told after I made it through the first like rounds or whatever, I told Jebby, I was like, because honestly, I didn't think I'd win. But I was like, yeah, I'll totally buy you a car if I win.
I won. So I bought her the car.
That's amazing. What'd you get her? Was it a new car? It was like her dream car.
i think it was like a firebird or something it was like over 20 years ago but i think i believe it was like a firebird or not a firebird no uh it's like a mustang miata a mustang i don't i don't remember what it was it was like a sports car but it was like badass but i but i i wasn't i'm not in sports like were you surprised that you won or had you already experienced a pretty good level of success locally um no I mean I was surprised I'd what I mean yeah I'd won like I'd won like the burleson talent show like you know but like exactly prestigious um but you know when you're you know a kid you do those kind of things and I've had success in the sense of like, you know, following through on some dreams that I had like locally, but like I, you know, when I was a kid, but no, I mean, I'd never won anything of like real importance or done anything. And I, I am like a wallflower generally.
Like I don't, nobody even knows I'm in the room generally. So I did not think I was going to win that.
What was the process? So what was from the first audition? So you heard about this audition where they were going to have, you didn't know it was a show. It was just, they were looking for singers is what you heard.
Is that right? Yeah. And, and so they go, so you go into, uh, you, you audition in Texas, um, and you go to the first audition, uh, from, from the first audition to winning, how long was that process? Oh, like within like a year, like it was months because it was the first season and they were still putting it all together and it was an English based company.
So people were coming in and out. Are you singing the same song in every, uh, every stage, every audition? They, they'd like you to, or they did, they asked us to, I, I was about to sing, I'd said yes to singing at someone's wedding and I was singing at last.
They wanted me to sing at last and so I think I sang at last for the first three and then they showed this on YouTube I think or released it sometime but then they asked me to sing something faster and I was like, sing anything but the Moulin Rouge song because everyone was singing Itchy Gitchy, Ya Ya, I was like, I was like, sing anything but the Moulin Rouge song. Because everyone was singing Itchy Gitchy, Ya Ya, Donna.
I was like, I literally in that, I was like, anything will do but that song. Because everyone was singing it.
So I went into some Madonna song, which was random. Because normally I don't generally sing Madonna.
So within a year, you go from driving home so you can make more money. So you don't have to live in your car to being an international, uh, superstar.
And that, that kind of whiplash on your life, forget professionally. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
The whiplash on you, on you sort of, um, spiritually, emotionally, all that kind of stuff. The weight of it.
The weight of it. And some people might say, oh, poor Kelly Clarkson.
You became rich and famous in a year. I'm one of those people too, by the way.
Of course. Was that Jane Buffett that you were just quoting Will? That was Jane Buffett.
That was my good friend Jane Buffett. No, she never said that.
No, but that's just a great Jane accent. I know, she's the best.
What, what was that like, Kelly, for you? Like sort of, not the day after you win, but in this sort of the time after as you, as your life just has a dramatic shift. What was that like for you as a person, as a human being walking this planet? You know, really cool moments and then like a lot of not great ones.
So I think I'm a very trusting person. Well, I think the scary part comes when it's more the human factor.
It's not the working. I've always had like three or four jobs at a time.
I've always enjoyed being busy. I like being productive.
So, you know, that wasn't a – it wasn't so much the scheduling was intense, but it wasn't too much. It's the human factor.
It's the lying. And it's the people, you know, just, it's like, what? What are we doing here? It's the lying.
Like, literally, and I, that really got me down. The human factor got me down.
Yeah, there was an article written in this old paper in L.A. I don't even think they printed it anymore, called the L.A.
Weekly. This is like, I don't know, 30 years ago.
That's like a cover story called the fine art of lying and, and talking about the relevance and the necessity of it specifically in the entertainment industry. I'm sure it's pervasive in other industries as well, but specifically that they cited all these examples and it's really true.
I become sort of immune or, or sort of numb to it. But if, if you really think about it, if you think about your conversations with your team, with the other people that you work with, there is a level of lying that I myself do as well, that you kind of have to do just to protect the people's feelings that you love in this business.
Cause there's so much rejection. There's so much sort of, yeah, it's not a fit, blah, blah, blah, that you have to to if you're empathetic at all reshape and sort of tell what are i think i like to think are white lies um but i don't know i don't know you do get used to it but i don't think i don't think that you are are or numb to it i mean i know what do you mean lies for lies about what like well lies lies about your...
Hey, I saw your movie the other day. Oh, yeah, what'd you think? Now, if you didn't like it, but you're friends with that person...
Now, obviously, this is not some big thing that I'm revealing, but there is sort of a... I find that there is a lot of it that you need to do in this town if you care about the people that you're talking to because there's so much rejection everybody works hard and difference of opinion

yeah by the way I

for what it's worth

I loved Goodnight Oscar

oh yes and me

I just want to say that I think I liked it more well

Sean I thought you were so good in it

Sean so gifted

Goodnight Oscar what a tribute

and we will be right back guys we all need to drink water every day I mean we have to drink water to stay alive right so why should it be boring like I like sparkling water because it didn't have all the sugar and the added you know chemicals and everything like that that soda has so sparkling water gives you the bite that you're looking for. But with Waterloo sparkling water, you get a little flavor in it, like a fruit flavor, and it's so delicious.
With authentic flavors and lively carbonation, Waterloo sparkling water brings full flavor artistry. What's flavor artistry, you ask? It's all about custom crafting multi-sensorial flavor experiences of aroma, taste, and mouthfeel that make you say, wow! Waterloo Waters are crafted, not formulated or off the shelf, just purified sparkling water and non-GMO project verified natural flavors with zero calories, sugar, or sweeteners.
I love it because guess what?

I've been open about this.

I've gotten kidney stones,

so I have to stay hydrated all the time.

I constantly drink water all day long,

and it does get boring until Waterloo.

The flavors are so delicious.

The black cherry is delicious.

I had it.

It's so yummy, and it feels so good going down.

Give Waterloo Sparkling Water a try.

Look for Waterloo Sparkling Water next time you shop.

Learn more about the flavors from Waterloo Sparkling Water

and I'll see good going down. Give Waterloo sparkling water a try.
Look for Waterloo sparkling water next time you shop. Learn more about the flavors from Waterloo sparkling water at drinkwaterloo.com.
Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about all the time, is Scotty.
And of course, my two besties, Will and Jason. Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it.
And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist and I've been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great. So think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols.
They don't have all the answers, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community. In a society that glorifies hyper-independence, it's easy to forget that we're all better when we have a support system behind us.
Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life. It's time to shift that focus from doing it all to knowing that we're better when we ask for help.
BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties.
Easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Build your support system with BetterHelp.
Visit betterhelp.com slash smartless to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash smartless.
While Hilton is always expected to have top-notch service, you'd be surprised at the unexpected places they're offering it now. They've partnered with AutoCamp, which offers insanely cool airstreams in iconic outdoor destinations.
Hilton also has an exclusive partnership with small luxury hotels of the world, providing Hilton Honors members access to luxury boutique hotels across the globe. And they've added romantic and refined nomad hotels and graduate hotels in your favorite college towns to their portfolio.
Explore all the new ways to stay with those Hilton honors points you've been saving at Hilton.com. Hilton, for the stay.
All right, back to the show. But Kelly, I was going to say, well, you know, you touched on something which is, and kind of actually going on what Sean said, which is that you belong, there is that feeling of like you, I think a lot of Americans identified with you because you were the first person who kind of was plucked out of a blimmy and became a superstar.
And I guess that's what I'm wondering about is after that, you are, because people felt a certain sense of ownership. And a proxy to like the American dream.
Yeah. So how hard is that? That's not hard.
Like that's not, I mean, I get that. I've, I don't know how, but I, I still like, I can still like be objective and, and go, man, that's incredible that someone made it in that sense.
You know what I'm saying? And it kind of, I think what it did just for speaking to people and meet and greets and whatnot for years and years is it really gave people like a, I don't know, it kind of gave people that thing of like, no, really, you can't accomplish anything. Like your dreams, whatever it is, you could actually make this happen.
Like this person was from nowhere, like a cocktail waitress, like, you know, nowhere near making it. And they actually film that stuff, right? They deliver your story to, much like they do in the Olympics.
They deliver your story to, and then boom, they go live. Here's her singing on stage.
Yeah, and I think people relate to that. I think people think maybe I can still do that or maybe that could be me.
I think that it like has this sense of hope with it. Aspirational.
Yeah. Vicarious.
Yeah, well, Sean used to do a lot of meet and beats, right? Yeah. No, no, sorry.
She said meet and greet well. Okay.
Sorry. Yeah.
Sorry. Sorry.
Well done. Good for you, Sean.
Thank you, Kel. So, listen, do you remember when you first started, you know, immersing yourself into the world of Hollywood and Los Angeles and all that? Do you remember what was kind of foreign to you that you were like, oh, I didn't know you needed makeup every single time? Oh, I didn't know.
Oh, I got in trouble on American Idol. They were like, so we're about to be on camera.
And I was like, I know. And they were like, but you're going to be on camera.
And I was like, I know. And then it was like, okay, well, do you want any like makeup or hair done? And I was like, no, I'm in a house right now.
You're doing like behind the scenes. Like I was like, I'm not on stage.
Like I was like, I mean, I'll do it for stage. I was like, but why are we doing this now? The one producer in particular, very high up, was not a fan of me just because I didn't play that game.
And it wasn't even playing the game. Like the other four girls that season were very into, you know, that stuff.
They were very into it. The glam of it, yeah.
Yeah, I was like the most amazing person to tour with for those girls because I was never in the makeup and hair chair. Like I was like, they would have to force me to like sit there because I'm highly allergic.
Anything that gets near my eyes, vegan, whoever's brand that says whatever, it still sucks for my eyes. And anyway, so I don't like wearing it.
I don't enjoy wearing it. And so that was a big thing.
You can't pry me out of the chair, you know? Yeah. I need it.
I do need it. And that's the thing.
Like, I adore the people I work with. Even my makeup artist.
I love her so much. I was laughing at Jason saying you often, like, stare directly in their eyes it.
We have so many like inside, it's such an intimate setting. Like we're such close friends just because of that.
Like, you know, but so I love, I love, you know, the art of it. I love how creative people can be.
It's just not my thing. Right.
Right. So then you, so you don't do it or you're sort of resistant to it for all the reasons you just outlined, then you win American Idol.

Now you're a pop star.

And now you've got to release record after record, which you do incredibly successfully.

So just talk to us a little bit about that. And singing in front of thousands of people.

Exactly.

I'm fascinated by all of a sudden now you're a megastar sort of overnight.

Not really.

Now, of course, people don't realize that you've been working for years trying to do

it.

Yeah, but it is overnight. I'm okay with that.
Okay. And then, thank you for letting me off the hook.
And then you, but then you all of a sudden, it's like, okay, so you win, that's huge. And now you got to record a record, right? You got to make it, you go right into making a record.
Is that how it went? Yeah, and it was bumpy from the beginning. Yeah, just because nobody knew what to do with me because I liked a lot of different genres of music and everybody kind of had a different plan.
And nobody knew that it would be successful in their defense. You know, they didn't, you know, they were like, yeah, this kid from this show, like, I understand that.
And understood it then as well, by the way. But it was a little bumpy.
And then they, people don't know this, but it wasn't Clive right off the bat. Like I had another, there was another person running the label.
Clive Davis. Yeah, it wasn't him running the label.
I didn't make my first record with him. So anyway, it was just kind of rocky from the beginning.
There was a changing of hands, like a baton passing with the label. There's a lot going on.
Nobody knew what to do. Like it was a crazy, like I think people thought people thought, oh, right off the bat, she, like, had all this money.
No, everybody was plugging in our own gear at state fairs and cow shit and, like, doing state fair. Like, we were, like, it wasn't right off the bat.
Who was producing the record for you then, at that point? Who were you, like, what was that process? I can't remember. I think it was Peterson.
I can't remember his name. It was, but it was a long time ago.
But he was, right in the beginning, he was very nice. Like right in the beginning, I had met him once.
And really it was just us in the studio and they were kind of setting me up with different producers and different writers and stuff. And did you write these songs or were these songs that were written by, because a lot of artists I've learned very late in life, some of them write their own music and they perform their music and then others, no better, no worse, they take songs that are already written by somebody who doesn't know how to sing and then they sing.
Didn't you sing an Aber Levine song? Yeah, I've sang a Katie song, Christina song, Sia, Pink, Aber. I love writing and I've been writing since my first album.
I've always written on all my records and I've also always just loved finding songs that I feel like I was intended to be the vessel for. Like I love, I mean, I love interpretation.
So, I mean, obviously even from the talk show, if we skip ahead, like I, I love taking a song and even flipping it like the production. I just, I love storytelling.
I don't like acting in the way of storytelling. I like watching it.
But I like singing and acting in that sense and with storytelling.

And that's always been like a love of mine.

So I've done both since the very beginning.

What about that?

Sorry, Shani.

Did you ever see a movie called Into the Woods?

I love that movie.

Yeah.

With James Corden.

Meryl Streep, Emily Blunt, James Corden.

Yeah.

Like, would you ever be excited if somebody brought you something like that

where there's a little bit of acting but a lot of singing as well,

like singing acting?

I don't know. Yeah, Meryl Streep, Emily Blunt, James Corden.
Like, would you ever be excited if somebody brought you something like that where there's a little bit of acting, but a lot of singing as well, like singing acting? Also known as a musical movie. Go ahead.
I'm sorry. It was based on a musical.
You know, there's a whole genre. It was a musical.
A guy named Stephen Sondheim, I hear, is really starting to take off. He's going to make it.
He's up and coming. Jason, do some singing acting for us real quick.
I want to see some singing. Hello, Hello, I'm hungry.
Something like that. You can sing, Jason.
Well, that's not acting because we know you're hungry. Yeah.
I would maybe do something like that. But I think I'm like such a fan of what y'all can do.
Like, I think it's interesting when actors, especially having this talk show, like, I meet actors a lot. And I never was around actors, only musicians generally.
And we're always, like, looking at the other pasture. Like, everybody's always green.
You know, everybody's like, oh, my God, I'm such a fan of what you do. It's so, like, what y'all do is incredible to me.
The fact that you can run lines like that, do the same emotion over and over again, whatever it's serious or funny or whatever. And it doesn't wear you out or get monotonous is beyond to me right i feel the same way about musicians i i do i'm in awe of what you do your ability no but i find that that's the case right so i but i have such an appreciation for it and i've never like what like i did know the winner of american idol we found out like around the top five that in that little fine print that we signed for the contract, the winner would have to do this movie.
And I was, I literally have cried like so hard to get out of that. Like, cause I, I did not want to do it.
I did not think it was good. Neither did anyone else.
And I did not want, I did not want to act like that. Like that was not my, that was not my goal.
Did you, did you have to? Yeah. I bought the first ticket.
I was right in the theater. I had to do it.
Yeah. And it's not like I was like trying to, you know, poo poo on it or whatever.
It's just what it, I was so worried because my goal was to sing and tour and do stuff like that. And so I was so worried that it was going to ruin any chance of me being taken seriously as an artist.
So I begged my label to at least let me put my single out, like, just let me get a single out. Let me have a chance, like before this comes out.
And they did. So that, I think that's what saved me was that first single.
What, what level of you allow yourself to feel that you have taken in, what, 20 years, a great step through a door that wasn't pride open for you by anybody else? I mean, you did that part too. But once you had that platform and all this capital that you were able to build on it, diversify it, and parlay it into this massive, legitimate career such that some people would be really interested to hear that you got started on American Idol.
It's much the same way, like, you know, there's all these people that started on Star Search. It's like, wait, what? Yeah, there are a lot of kids who bought your records who didn't watch you on Idol, right, Jay? Is that what you're getting at? Like, there are a lot of people who are fans of yours who don't know that exactly and i mean my question is do you have you have you sort of just out of out of admirable humility uh lost are you are you allowed to feel do you allow yourself to feel the pride that that i think you deserve that you've done so, with that moment that, that frankly, some others have not from American Idol or any of the other shows.
Yeah. I mean, I think for me, um, what I'm most proud of is even if there's like, I've been told in this business, like, well, you're a sinking ship, you know? And I was like, okay, cool.
But as long as I'm at the helm, I'm cool with that. Like as long as somebody else isn't driving it, like that's cool.
Like I think that's what I take pride in is like, look, it hasn't been a perfect career. It's obviously been like this, but like it's been perfect for me in the sense of like every decision I've made and everything I've done, it's because I wanted to do it regardless of the outcome.
And I think I'm proud of the fact that I don't let pride or ego or even shame, if that comes in, you know, at some point when something, you know, or any of that, I don't let that get in the way of it. So how did you learn that? Because you were, like you said, 19 and now you're 40, whatever.
How did you learn how to weed out the good from the bad as you entered the business? Childhood trauma. I think, no, I honestly, that's why people always ask me about my kids and being in the business.
I'm like, I mean, good for them if they want to do it. I just think because of how I was set up from a very young person and like, and hearing the things that happened or, you know, whatever my life did, you know, happened and then, and having to navigate that, I think definitely prepared me for the industry and prepared me for a spotlight to, to be okay, to be me, like, regardless if you're into it or not, like that, everybody likes something different.
Art is subjective. But like, I think, I think that is fucked up as that sounds.
I think a lot of like the traumatic things that happened to me when I was younger really not only built a thicker skin, but I think it also, when you, you know, let's say you hear from like someone that's supposed to love you the most, you know what I'm saying in life? And you're, and you're like, you didn't quite, that you weren't good enough. I think that when that happens, you're like, well, I'm never going to please anyone.
So like, why even aim for it? I'm just going to have a good time. Like, fuck it.
I'm just going to like do what I love to do. And cause you know, when, you know, when that person that, or people that are supposed to be there for you the most, like when that, when you get let down in, and I know that sounds dark, but when that happens, I think in your head, you're like, okay, well then maybe life isn't so about just aiming to please everyone or aiming to receive something.
Maybe you just do it because you want to do it. And you never know how many trips around the sun you get.
You might as well try whatever you want. Yeah, I think the same way.
Or maybe even said differently if you agree that it sets you up. The necessity becomes being self-sufficient.
If you can't rely on those closest to you at certain times, then you learn, well, then I just have to make myself happy. I've got that part.
Yeah, it's like survival. Yeah, and it's because I was going to say, and Sean beat me to the question, like you are so clearly comfortable in your skin and, you know, shitty word.

I don't have a better one, but you're just lovely. Oh, God.
No, I'm kidding. I love that word.
But like who, I was going to ask you, who can you attribute that to? I mean, do you have? Yeah, like because you didn't become a drug addict. You didn't become this or that.
Yeah, did you have great parents or parent or uncle or something that really showed you kind of this North Star of like, well, wow, look at the adversity they've gone through and they're still able to be, you know, loving and giving and warm and open to the people they care about and they're not walking around and bittered and aggrieved. And like, it's just, you seem to really have taken whatever negatives you went through and I'm not prying for those, but you seem to have turned them into a positive and they just taught you coping mechanisms that have yielded this nice balanced personality and vibe, it seems like, yeah? Yeah, I think for me, it wasn't like one person.
Thank you so much, Kelly. I think for me, it wasn't one person.
I think it's a village, right, that raises any kid. Like, I don't think it's, you know, people are just like, oh, it's my mom or it's my dad or it's, you know, whatever.
I think obviously that probably is true. But I also think we are raised by our surroundings, regardless of your teachers, your, you know, coaches and sports.
Like all your other friends' parents. And I think for some reason, I don't know why or how, but I don't know.
I kind of navigated people in a sense of like, I'm going to take the, I love that part of you. Like, that's a really cool thing.
Like I, you know, I don't have a lot of positive experiences with this one person in my life that I won't mention. But the one thing I will say for them is they were always highly complimentary of people, even if it was fake or whatever for them.
But like growing up, I saw how it made people feel. And I was like, oh, that's lovely, for lack of a better word.
That's like to make someone feel. And I stole that, like for my person.
And I was like, I like that. I like to make people feel like that.
I like to compliment people. But you know what, Kelly, there's a real wisdom to that, which is, and Sean, you always say it takes a village, people.
But, you know, we, you, there's a wisdom to this idea that you, whatever you put out in life is what you're going to get back, right? And so I have no idea who you're talking about or what they're like as a person. They might be a terrible person.
But at least in that aspect. They work great.
And if you, yeah, so if you, you know, sometimes that feeling of loving somebody, no matter what, will increase the chances of you getting love back. And that feeling of hurt or whatever comes from a lack of actually putting love out.
And I think that there's a balance there. There's like a, and when it comes to people too, you sort of start to identify.
I know that as I get older, I identify the people in my life where I go, I make a conscious effort to surround myself and to spend time with people that I love and I know love me. And then my experience is better.
These guys on this, you know, here with us today are two great examples. I probably don't spend more time with anybody than these two guys, you know, in my sort of – and because I love them and they love me.
And so that's a positive experience. Exactly.
Yeah. We'll be right back.
This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires.
She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend, Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX is Dying for Sex, all episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.
Thank you to Paramount Plus for sponsoring today's episode of Smartless. Paramount Plus is the home of the UEFA Champions League.
The UEFA Champions League has reached the knockout stage where the best of the best in European club soccer face off to be crowned champions of Europe. Watch the best coverage of the best soccer in the world all season long live on Paramount+.
Experience the excitement of every single match live exclusively on Paramount+. Visit ParamountPlus.com to get started.
Guys, who doesn't love Easter? Easter's the best. Baskets, candy, I'm in.
Macy's has everything you need for Easter. Clothes, hosting essentials, entertaining looks, gifting, baskets, and more.
Macy's has all the Easter trends you love in apparel like florals, tweed, men's suits, and casual dressing, and kids' dressy clothes from brands like Levi's and Calvin Klein. Accessories with sandals, handbags, jewelry, and watches from brands like Mark Fisher and Coach, plus home essentials from decorations, candy, and toys to KitchenAid and Le Crusade.
Shop in-store and online at Macy's.com from now until Easter on April 20th. And now, back to the show.
All right, let's get to the show. Yeah, let's...
You, I would imagine, yeah, do you love it as much as you seem? I mean, it's like... Can we go back further, JB? It's just a fantastic fit for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we go back to, like, how did that happen? You're Kelly Clarkson.
You have so many different phases. You're Kelly Clarkson, aspiring singer.
You're Kelly Clarkson, rock star. Yeah, not since Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Millions of albums. And then all of a sudden, you're like, what? One day you wake up and you're like, man, you're looking out the window.
You're like, I'm going to have a talk show. No.
No, that, yeah, I said no the first two times. Like, so I was on The Voice, and I love NBC.
I have a really healthy relationship with them. Well, they don't lie, so I like that.
I'm trying to surround myself with people that are just, just feed it to me. But I had a really good experience on that show with that crew, with those executives.
And they, you know, came to the studio. I was doing something at the recording studio.
And they came and they were like, we really feel like you would be really good at this. And I was like, I really am not a journalist or a comedian.
And there's like no reason for me to be doing that. Like, I just don't think that's a good plan if I'm being frank.

And, um, and then I said no, and then I said no again. And then all of a sudden it was just, you know, and that was actually my ex who, you know, we were just laying in bed and he was like, I really feel like you should just, you'd be really good at it because you're really good with people.
Like you're, like, you're really good at talking. I don't think it's going to be like a job for you.

I was like, I think you just are really, you know, good at that. And, and, you know, why not just try it? And I was like, whatever.
So I was like, okay, cool. I'll try it.
And I will say even from the, and I say this with all, without trying to sound any other kind of way, but like a lot of people

be like, oh, it's really hard. It's really not.
It's like the easiest job I've ever had. Like, I know that sounds like nobody wants to hear that.
Well, it's because you're naturally charismatic and friendly and interested and curious. And it's like, you just, you've got people skills because you're not a dick, you know?

I mean, like...

Well, thank you.

But I don't know.

It just is not, like the hardest part of my talk show is just that I was like, hey, I have this idea. We can open with a song before and I could elevate, you know, other artists that I love or whatever and do covers and whatever.
And that's the hardest thing. It's like 180 and it's always like trying to figure out, you know, clearing songs.
Like that's the hardest part of the show is just getting that because there's no rehearsal time. It is literally like camp.
Like, you know, when you're a kid and they're like, get on stage, improv it. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, it's, we literally don't rehearse it.
We just do it. You know, it's the craziest thing ever.
So that part is like the hardest part. The talking part is so easy.
Well, except I know you've probably, well, maybe not because you're like super successful. So, but like, you know, like, have you ever interviewed someone and you're just like, okay, so that's, that's it.
Like, buddy, you don't got to talk, you know? It's not yes or no time. I'm here to help you sell your shit.
Right. You're not doing me a favor by sitting on the couch.
That can be hard sometimes. I'm like, wow, do say more.
But that can be tough. But for the most part, I'm pretty good with people.
So it's really like the easiest, like I can't even believe we're in season five right now. It feels like not that long.
That's so amazing. Yeah, but it's just a fun job And honestly, the support of, because I literally told NBC, I was like, I don't, I'm not trying to slap a gift horse in the face, mouth, whatever you say, whatever the saying is.
I was like, I'm just, I'm not happy here. I can't continue doing this.
And I don't want to like, I know everybody's put a lot of money and time and we're winning and we're doing well. I was like, but I can't continue this.
I got to get out of here. And so they were really cool about moving the show for me.
That's really great. Which is huge.
To 30 Rock. To 30 Rock.
That's insane. Look a gift horse in the mouth.
Do you know what that expression is? Do you know what it comes from? I do. Do you? Yeah.
It goes back to somebody. You give somebody a horse and you look in the teeth.

And if the teeth are bad, then you say, no, thank you.

You can see how old a horse is and the overall health of a horse.

And so if somebody gives you one and you go, yeah, I'll take the gift.

But hang on, let me look inside.

Yeah, so you're looking at the...

It's rude.

Look at that.

The more you know.

Look at that.

I know that Jason would know that. I love you, Jason.
I'm sneaky smart. I know.
You are sneaky smart. You're not sneaky smart.
You're plain smart. Hey, so you, Kelly, you're now at 30 Rock, which is, must feel like, I mean, has it set in? It often feels, well, you know what's so funny is I've been going there so much for over 20 years that like for promotion stuff and just in and out of the building that it oddly felt very normal right off the bat.
Like, yeah. I mean, you walk around like for some reason my key like never works.
They just don't want to let me in the building. And I always have to go to this one area and get another one.
And when you go there, there's all these images that kind of change of all the things that have happened historically in that building. And it's so cool.
Like, I mean, I get the gift of it, and I'm very, you know, grateful for it. But it feels really normal, like we've been there the whole time.
What floor are you on? Are you on six? I'm right across from, yeah, right across from Jimmy. You are? Literally.
Jimmy Fallon. Yeah.
From Jimmy, oh, sorry, go ahead. For Tracy, Jimmy Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon. I'm so jealous.
It's such a dream of mine to live in New York, work at 30 Rock on something that is everyday. Like, I swear to God, I've been, I've wanted that since I was, you know, a young kid.
Like going to New York for work and going to 30 Rock. I just think that building is incredible.
The whole area around it, even like the ice, all the closed off streets. The basement level of all the things happening that I never knew the city underneath.
I was like, what? Jason, are you crying right now? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
By the way, I'm going to help. I'm going to help you out.
Sorry, go ahead, Kelly. I was going to.
Oh, no. I was going to say, I will say, it's how you're describing it.
It is movie-like. Like, I walk home every day from work, and it's the coolest thing ever.
You put your headphones in. I'm usually listening to what I'm supposed to be seeing the next day.
But, like,, you go out of the building, this historical cool building, the city,

everybody's got their own vibe going on.

Everybody's got their own lives.

Everybody's doing their own thing.

You put different industries, not just the one like in LA.

And you put your heavens in and you walk home

and it's like a 35-minute walk home.

And so it's nice.

It's lovely.

And you're walking through a park and you're,

it's really, it's like, I don't know, the older we get, I sound like an old person, but the older you get, those moments really matter. Like those, those moments.
Of course. It's experiential.
Jay, we were talking on the phone this morning about it. It's like, how do you want your experience to be? Like you can have X, Y, and Z, but the, but you have to go through the process of doing it and you have to do it on a day-to-day basis.
So what do you want that to be? What do you want your life experience to be? And I, I know what you mean. I mean, I, you know, lived in New York for over 20 years and, and I keep threatening that once my older kids graduate high school, I'm going to move back.
I think that's what I will do. Um, because of that very thing you talked about, whether it's walking to the park, walking to think, whatever.
I mean, that kind of stuff. It's very inspirational.
Yeah. It fills you up, right? Like it fills your soul, if you will.
And it sounds like cheesy, but like, or very celebrity. But like I, at the risk of this, I have to be, I think because I'm from the countryside, I have to be like, like that park saves me.
It's right there. It saves me every day.
Like I don't think I could live in the concrete jungle without that park. Like I literally read a whole book on Frederick Law, who created it.
Like I'm very into like landscaping and very into sure we have, we don't forget, like, what that feels like to go outside and see trees and flowers. And when I was doing the play last summer, I would walk.
Sometimes I'd walk for four hours. From your front door to the Escalade.
Yeah. I was exhausted.
I was exhausted. Jason, can we just, can we make an announcement right now, Jay? Can we, this is the NBC.
Will and I are pregnant. Oh, wow.
Not that. I didn't want to let that.
Congratulations. Thanks, guys.
The NBC, Jason Bateman is open to your offer of working for you at 30 Rock on a daily basis. You need like an Ed McMahon.
So come to him. Sort of a.
Call Alina Kashish. Would y'all ever, would you, this is a real question.
Uh-oh. Would you, because I'm not bullshitting you.
I really do listen. I was, even with my sister and I, we were listening to like two in the morning last night.
I think the Kevin Hart one and Emma Stone. We were listening to a bunch of them.
Anyway, and would you ever, cause I noticed with the Kevin Hart one, you're in front of an audience and then y'all toured it as well. So would you ever do it as like a, like a.
Like a TV show. Like a TV show? I've, I've thought about it, but I think it would be more full time than I think the three of us are willing to, yeah.
Like right now it's just, you know, it's an hour a week. And it's, we can, we're, we're flexible with it.
We're mobile with it. But yeah, if it was a structured studio and stuff, it would, it would mean stopping some of the're enjoying doing in addition to this right now.
Yeah, perfectly so. And anybody who would want to have us on their platform to do that would have to make an offer to Aline Kishish.
Will has a number. And let's hear what it is.
But I do think that you can make that whatever you want because I didn't know what a talk show was. Like I didn't really know like I didn't know this world.
I'm an artist. I'm never even awake for daytime television.
So like this is not generally my world. So, you know, I think you've had so much success with it and obviously just in your careers separately.
But I think that's the cool thing about it is that you wouldn't have to commit to more than what you wanted to commit to. You're at that level to where maybe you do it in a different way.
Like, you know, I don't know. I just think, I think what you're doing, this is incredible.
I just, it's just, I also understand like that is pretty cool to, because you do give up. Something has to give.
Like even with my music career, I'm not able to do everything because I'm doing the talk show. But there's also a plus in that for me.
That's why it's so tempting. Like, I love routine.
I would love to have, you know, that stage across from Jimmy's. And you have the pattern that you walk home every day through the park.
Like, I love that. I love a routine.
I flourish in a routine. But also having that,

as you know,

because of what we do,

sometimes you have

like a million things

happening at once.

And again,

not a complaint.

Like, you know,

you have the, you know,

privilege of having

a million things.

But when you get to work

on one thing all the time,

you can't,

you're like,

sorry, I can't.

I'm just doing this thing.

And there's something

really satisfying about it.

Having those moments.

Sean, you did it

for years on Will & Grace.

Yeah, it was nice.

You know, where you're like,

I don't. I'm just doing this thing.
And there's something really satisfying about that. Having those moments.

Sean, you did it for years on Will and Grace.

Yeah, it was nice.

You know, where you're like, I'm just doing this right now.

And I don't have the time to be spread thin.

For sure.

Because I'm just doing this.

I know that you've answered this question probably a billion times.

I've never heard the answer.

That's why I'm going to be the tool.

I am a Taurus as well.

But no, why?

Because you all have such amazing careers separate from one another, such different careers as well, obviously actors, but just different. And what made you all three do this? Like whose idea was this? Will's originally, and then Sean and I kind of snored in on it and changed what Will's concept and premise was going to be and then it just became well let's just kind of hang out and chit chat during COVID because we can't see each other.
We had no idea. I didn't know the answer to that.
Sorry you've probably answered it a billion times. No it's not that.
It's not particularly we literally were like oh let's just do it and then we and then the week the world shut down on the Friday of of uh march 13th of 2020 and we had a meeting on the tuesday before like four days before yeah yeah sean's uh sean's real smart dude michael grant terry puts put some put some form to it and presented to us well guys just just you know this is what it could be and and this is what it's not you know like so don't think it's going to be a big, huge time suck, and there's some work here. But he just basically put it in adult terms for us.
And we paid for it. We put it up on its feet on our own.
It wasn't a lot, but we did that, and that's how it went. I think that's why, though, because it was so organic.
I, a lot of horrible things happened because of COVID,

but a lot of really incredible things happened out of COVID.

And it was just an excuse to see each other, you know?

Yeah.

Well, it became like this really great, you know,

a lot of feedback we got,

especially at that time from people was like,

hey, it was great to be able to listen during COVID.

And truthfully, it was selfishly,

it was great for us to be able to do it.

Oh, it was selfishly.

It was good for me to work through that. I worked my whole TV show the whole time.
Right. And being able to like.
In the mountains in like snow. And being able to call people in that you're really interested to talk to kind of unapologetically.
You're not like tapping them on the shoulder like, excuse me, Mrs. Such and Such.
I'd love to ask you a question. Well, no, we have a format for that with this.
And it's such a luxury to be able to talk to these heroes that we have i'm sure you feel the same way on your show yeah i do you just say to your to your gang your producers like hey would you reach out to such and such see if they'd be interested to coming on the show she's in a gang yeah no i'm telling that just having me with share i was like and atlantis was on this season like a lot of people that i adore um i they're always going to be probably more the musical ones that come on just because I have a little bit more depth with them as far as their career and catalog and stuff. But, yeah, I feel the same way.
It's the coolest thing to, like, be able to just sit and chat, like, with your people that you look up to. Well, you're killing it.
You really are. You've killed it in everything you've done.
You're such a sort of real. Say lovely.
Yeah, and lovely. Lovely person.
Lovely. I could hear you talk all day long.
I could hear you sing all day long. I agree.
I love it. Yeah.
You're nice. I don't leave voicemails because of my talking voice.
I just want to belt out all your songs to you because I just love belting out your songs. It's good.
You, we have taken up way too much of your time. God, you're busy.
Get back to your incredibly successful talk show. We wish you nothing but the best.
Thank you for being here and blessing us with you. And thank you for your talent and everything you've done.
And all your lovelyness. Yeah.
You're awesome. No, thank you guys for having me.
I know I've listened to the show, so I like to be in the same category as a lot of the people that you interview is very cool. So thank you very much for having me.
Well, you're just a... And you make, like, honestly, just like cutting through the bullshit and just being through yourself, it's so refreshing to listen to and it's fun.
And it's, I don't, you know, how y'all were saying people look at me. I, I look at y'all the same way.
So I think it's very refreshing for people.

Nice for people to see this version of Sean for sure.

I love Sean.

I love Kelly.

You made this real easy. Thank you, Kelly.

Yeah, Kelly, thank you so much success. Congratulations and wish you nothing but the

best.

Yes.

No, y'all have a good 2024, y'all. You too.
Bye. See you later.
Bye, Kelly. What a terrible guest, Will.
You know, somebody that just doesn't know how to, you know, be friendly or respond to questions. I know.
She's so... I love this, Sean.
You started in the right way, which is... You put it in such a great way, which is like, yeah, she feels very much like...
Like ours. Like ours.
Yeah. Yeah.
And she is the American idol. Yeah, she's America.
She's the American... She represents all sides of America.
I think. I honestly felt like I could fire up a friendship with her tomorrow that would last 40 years.
Well, when you're doing your talk show across the hall from her, Jason. Yeah, just do that.
Or maybe combined with her. What? Kelly and Jason.
From Jason to Kelly. From Jason to Kelly.
That was the name of the movie. That's right, from Justin to Kelly.
From Justin to Kelly, that was the name of the movie. Yeah, people call me Justin all the time.
Oh, they do call me Justin. You're from Justin to Killian.
Oh, my God. We can do it.
The posters already exist. We already have all the outdoor ads.
But isn't it amazing we know all of her songs? Like, it's so rare. Like, everybody knows all her songs.
I know. What's that song that goes? Bye, bye.
Black Sheep? Blackbird? Yeah. Fuck, man.
Jason, let me get out of here.

Fuck, that was so fucking sweaty.

Fucking lather up.

You're thinking about that NSYNC song.

Yeah, how's it go?

Bye, bye, bye.

Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Bye.

Smart.

Less.

Smart. Less.
Smartless. Smartless.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Grand Terry.

Smartless.

Hey friends, Jason here. Smart Less.
new episodes ad-free and a whole week early. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today.
Make this spring the season of you with a bedroom refresh from Ashley. Discover our latest style starting at $499.99 to transform your bedroom into a serene retreat you'll never want to leave plus 60 month special financing on in-store purchases made with your

ashley advantage synchrony credit card and get ready to rise with more shine introducing the

all-new sealy posturpedic collection with precision fit coils for targeted support

starting at 7.99 only at ashley subject to credit approval minimum monthly payments required see

store for details