"Taika Waititi"

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Details at lowes.com slash terms subject to change. Hey, God, sorry, I didn't see you there.

You caught me off guard.

I was just, um... I just really miss Sean and Jason right now.

Feeling real, um...

Feeling real lonely out here in this cold open.

On my own.

Oh, my God, I promised myself I would cry.

Not wouldn't cry, that I would cry, and I can't do it. Gosh dang it.
All right. It's an all-new smart list.
Smart list. Smart list.
Smart list. Hi, y'all.
Hi, y'all. Hi, y'all.
Good evening. Hi, good evening.
I know it's very late. This is a very, very unusual Smartless After Dark.
This is Smartless After Dark. Yeah, I mean, should we take a piece of clothing off, maybe? Oh, let's see how it goes.
I mean, isn't that what usually happens in my house? Okay. Everyone's topless after six.
No kidding. Am I the only one in my pajamas other than the baseball hat? No, I'm in my pajamas.
That doesn't change anything from our daytime reports. No.
No, no. But, JB, what's the earliest, all jokes aside, what's the earliest you'll get in your jammies?

If I'm not going out at all, I never get out of them.

I'll be in it all day.

All day.

And you're telling me I smell like juicy, disgusting juice?

No, well, no.

What's the quote?

What does it usually say?

I usually say you smell like dirty, disgusting, juicy juice.

What did you just say?

Yeah, something like that.

No, you usually smell like chin-chin.

Yeah, that's true.

This is true.

But, I mean, you always make fun of me because I, or what was it?

I was wearing the same thing, like, all day long.

You're like, and you didn't take another shower?

Yeah.

You take the same. You'll wear the same.
What did you both get into today? Here we are at the end of the day. Do you feel like you used today correctly? I do.
Or did you just waste a day? I do. I thought that I'd see you.
I attacked the hill this morning. Yeah.
Took the kids to school, attacked the hill, didn't call either of you while I was on my journey because I didn't want to get another impression of my breathless phone calls. Right.
And then... Were you zipped into your plastic sweatsuit? I was zipped into the...
I was zipped into it. Your rubber bag? I'd love it if you actually had one of those.
I weird. I honestly...
I haven't seen one of those since Rocky.

Wasn't Rocky jogging in one of those?

Yeah.

He jogged, and then it's some actor years later. Yes, I was just going to say, Lawrence, Martin Lawrence.

Martin Lawrence, yeah.

Oh, really?

He jogged really long enough.

And then I worked with Chappie this afternoon.

We wrote for about four hours.

So what does that look like, by the way, these writing sessions? Can I guess? You're on a computer with him because he's over there in England, and he just sort of shares his screen with you, and you kind of watch him write. No.
Wrong. Yeah.
I just get paid. Hey, Chappie, can you tilt the camera? Chappie, typo.
Chappie, typo. Can you tilt your camera? Two lines up.
Yeah, you forgot the apostrophe right there. Welcome.
I just got back about an hour ago from having a facial to answer your question. I treated myself.
I haven't had one in a long, long, long, long time. No, this is the kind where they pop blackheads and stuff.
Okay, I don't know. Okay, I'm trying to fucking.
No, no. You know, my wife's very diligent about making sure that I get in there and get my facial once a year.

Yeah.

Are you more frequent than that, Sean?

Maybe two a year.

When's the last time you had your toes and fingers done?

Years and years.

No.

You've had a manicure and pedicure recently.

No, not for years and years and years.

Will, don't lie.

Last mani-pedi.

Mani-pedi, I don't know, but I've had two facials in the last six weeks. Are you serious? Is that right? Yeah.
Because you had some on-camera work, did you? Yeah, but you know what? I haven't had one in at least five years before that. Okay.
And, um... This explains a lot.
Yeah, it feels good, though. Tell you what.
I pass out. Yeah, me too.
Yeah, I do too. Best.
Do you have one of those ugly wake-ups too when you're still like... Oh my God.
I totally do every time. This is also relatable.
I also had a massage recently and I did a 90-minute massage. It's not that fast.
Everybody gets massages in the world. I don't get them all the time.
And I had, she let me, it was 90 minutes, and she just kept me face down the full 90, and I was asleep, so I didn't know that I hadn't done, like, the flip over, and she was, and I fully did a, like this, woke up, and then my face had been in the donut facing down for 90 minutes. I looked like I'd just been kicked in the face repeatedly.
Yeah. You know, our friend Justin Theroux.
Sure. You know, when he gets a massage, for some weird reason, he likes to watch World War II documentaries.
What are you talking about? That's not a bit. That's all he does when he gets a massage.
So he'll put his face in the donut and he'll put his phone down on the floor and he'll just watch tanks and flamethrowers and all kinds of carnage.

Where's the relaxing part?

You tell me.

This is a guy that flies transcontinental topless.

So I'll try to figure him out.

Does he really? Yeah, when he falls asleep on a plane, he can't sleep without his shirt on. With his shirt on, he can't sleep.
So if he's sleeping on a plane or wherever he's sleeping, he's got to take his shirt off. That's just as gross as somebody putting their bare feet on the seat behind you on a plane.
Like, you know. Oh, JB, you just hit the main vein of JB's disgust.
What would be worse, walking around a hotel room without socks or shoes on or walking down the aisleway of a plane without socks? Yeah, plane. I'd say a plane.
Plane, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
Which is a tight second. Because you know they don't clean their shoes.
It's a cursory clean. They just go, okay, we're good.
But they start you out in horror by when you go through the radar thing, you take your shoes off and you got to put your socks there on the little foot outline thing where all the hot socks have been from people all over the world. And your hot, sweaty feet have to go on exactly the same spot.
Their hot, sweaty feet just left. Oh, it's a fucking disaster.
That's a great title for something, hot socks. You know what? This is so good to hear you working off your long-term memory of what it's like going through an airport.
And I always try to straddle those little paint-out things, you know? And I step on the inside or the outside. I'm like, no, no, no.
Inside the line, sir. Yeah, you got to be inside.
It's like a fucking murder chalk outline, okay? Yeah. You gotta be right inside.
I know, I try to saddle it,

and then they get mad at you.

And then I gotta put them back in,

then I put those hot socks back in my shoes.

Now the shoes are ruined.

Yeah.

Why are the shoes ruined?

What are you eating out of your shoes?

You're transferring the germs.

Yeah, and now they're dead to me.

Jason, you know what you're gonna hate?

What is it?

The rest of the world.

Yeah.

The rest of the world.

This is what you get at seven o'clock at night. I know, it's true.
Old Frankie Bateman. Well, you know what else you get at 7 a.m.
too? I tell you what else you get at 7 p.m. You get yourself a heck of a guest.
There we go. Oh, shit.
Will's taking a sip before the intro. I took a sip to make sure that I'm queued up.
You know what I mean? That I'm all sort of... I got a nice moist...
This guest better be fucking great, Arnett. This guest...
You know this guest. Fucking 720 at night.
So this guest... Okay, well, let me ask you this.
How's a guest who's won a Writer's Guild of America Award or a Grammy Award? Great to win. Is this an EGOT? An Independent Spirit Award.
Oh, shit. A BAFTA.
An Academy Award. I apologize for my tone.
Tonight's guest has won all those things, okay? Jesus. So maybe you want to hold your 7 p.m.
anger back a little bit. That was Sean.
Okay. That was Sean.
That was Sean. Are they a Tony shy of an EGOT? You know what? He is.
He is a Tony shy. He's a Tony and an Emmy shy of an EGOT.
He's been nominated for the Emmy, I don't know if he, a few times, I don't know if he's been nominated for a Tony, but I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe he'll get a Webby for this guest appearance.
He might get a Webby. He, this guy, this guy does it all.
He's a writer, he's a director, he's a really funny performer, which I think people know because he's in a bunch of stuff that he directs.

But I find him to be one of the funniest dudes that I know.

He makes me laugh consistently,

even though he does some really serious stuff as well.

We don't worry about what he does in the shadows.

We're just worried about what he did with Jojo Rabbit.

Taika!

It's Taika YTT!

This is fully excused.

Fully excused. Worth the wait.
Taika! Taika! Oh, Taika! It's Taika Waititi! This is fully excused. Fully excused.
Worth the week. Dang it! Dang it! Taika.
Well done, Will. You're off the schneid.
Very good. I had the whole computer screen covered with this flap of paper that you told me to get.
How does it feel now that it's gone? This is the first reveal of you guys, too. Wow, I love the mustache.
What do you think? It's fantastic. Thanks, buddy.
Are we prepping for a role this whole time The Strike was on? Wait, didn't you guys just work together? Didn't that movie come out? They worked together a couple of times. Well, I didn't mention it, but we do have a thank you, Sean, for the promotion because Taika and Searchlight will love this.
Taika's next film, Next Goal Wins,

is about to be released.

I can't wait to see it.

Maybe at the time of this, it is released,

and it's a great movie, and it was made even better by some of the casting.

The trailer looks incredible.

It does.

I can't wait to see it.

Taika.

It looks hysterical.

You said we just had done a movie together.

I completely forgot that.

I know.

I shot this movie so long ago. It's a memorable performance performance, Willie.
I know. I don't even remember.
By the way, he said... It's all that shit on the editing room floor.
That's just... The good stuff.
Reminds yourself. We did.
We also did Our Flag Means Death right around that same time together, which is a series about pirates. It is.
Right. So just looking at the scoreboard, that's two for Will, zero for Sean, zero for Jason.
Yeah. Don't worry.
Listen, maybe when you're lucky, when you work with Taki, he won't remember you having done it either. That'll be exciting.
Jason, I actually forgot to email you back about that other thing. Oh, when I said I couldn't do the soccer movie, give it to Will? No, you sent me something.
I wish. What did I say? Did I send you something to look at, maybe? Yes? Don't be like that.
You know you sent me something. I don't remember things at all.
Where are you? Are you down? I just landed in LA. This is why it's late, and I appreciate you guys doing this at this hour.
Oh, we appreciate you having that. I just went through that airport experience experience and I'm exactly like you, Jason.
I don't, I can't stand it.

Do you still have the dirty socks on right now?

Get them off.

Straight from the airport.

I don't want to touch them.

Well, wait, go burn them.

But that thing,

and I curl my feet outwards,

you know, when you stand on the air.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Put the pressure on the outside.

Hoping to have less surface area

touching the ground.

Will, at what point in the interview

can we talk about Jojo Rabbit?

Do you have a plan for this?

Do you have a bunch of questions?

Well, let's talk about, no, no.

It's, you know, we never have a plan.

Talk about airports. So we can talk about airports.
Let's talk about Jojo Rabbit because if people haven't seen Jojo Rabbit, I urge you to fucking see it. It's unbelievable.
Oh, sorry. I thought that's where you were.
It's the film that earned Taika his Academy Award for Best Adaptive Screenplay and film in which you play Hitler. So funny.
Yeah. And take it easy, everybody.
He's Jewish. Okay.
Take it easy. Take it easy.
I should have put that on the poster. Don't worry.
He's Jewish. Take it easy.
He should have been on the fucking poster. But folks, if you haven't seen it, don't be an idiot and wait longer.
Get out there and help yourself. Two years? Three years.
Two years ago? It's so good. 2019, actually.
Yeah. So, Tyke, actually, walk us through that a little bit.
I'm curious because you adapted that from a book. Yeah.
How did that go down that you were like, oh, man, this has to be a movie? What was that process like for you? My mother read this book called Caging Skies, and she pitched it to me. She said, you should make this into a movie.
And the way she pitched the story to me, I found so funny. And I thought, this is fantastic.
And then I read the book, and it was the least funny book I'd read in a long time. And there was no imaginary Hitler in it or any of that stuff.
But the way that she described what was going on in this world, I thought I'll go with her pitch. Anyway, and I added just those other elements to it like Hitler.
So what was it? It was a kid going to like a Hitler youth camp? Yeah, it was about a little kid who wanted to be the best Nazi in the world. Very topical right now.

And he

tried, and then he got home.

He gets home one day and he finds that

his mother's hiding a girl in their attic,

a Jewish girl in their attic, and he has

an absolute meltdown. He has no idea what to do about

this thing, which he

imagines as like, you know, he's been taught that they're

monsters with horns and, you know, devil tails and stuff. I mean mean for people who haven't seen it it's just so goddamn good and it just the plane lands at the end of this thing in a way that is so exciting and elegant and fun and it's just i don't know how you threaded that needle tonally all the way through the film and then an even narrower one at the end and just drilled it.
Thanks. It's true.
And my question was, so you did play Hitler. Were you always, were you always going to play that part? Were you like, I got to do this or did that, how did that? No, I never imagined.
I mean, look, I'm brown and too good looking, some would say. You're very handsome.
The Fuhror. But we did put it out to a lot of actors and I don't even think they got to see the script.
I think their agents immediately said, that's a hard no, it's a hard pass on this one. This is an easy pass.
So then a few years, and I went and made a few other movies, I thought, well, no one's going to make this. It'll be one of those blacklist scripts that never gets off the blacklist.
And then Searchlight, who made this soccer film with us,

they said to me, we really want to make this film,

but only if you play Hitler.

See, these guys, I mean, consistently through multiple administrations

have been like one of the most courageous, tasteful companies

in all of entertainment.

I can't imagine a bunch of other companies that would have said yes what was what was the pitch process like when you went in there about like you know exactly what it was like well but i mean did you did you have your agent sort of you know soften the ground a little bit and say he's coming he's going to pitch you a hitler film but it's not like what you i I mean, was there any warning at all? I went in and went through multiple studios and started with – okay, it's about a kid growing up in World War II who's in the Hitler Youth. And then their eyes would glaze over.
You'd see them fidget uncomfortably in their seat. And I would sort of just trail off from there.
Because you just know instantly that it's not for them. But like from, though, the way that you play and introduce Hitler is just like, oh, I'm in.
We're in great hands. Tonally, they're not going to ask me to fall in love with Hitler.
I think it was helpful that you didn't look terribly like the classic Hitler. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Also, I think what helped was not having a big star play that role is it would have overshadowed everything else. The whole story itself would have been, go see the Tom Cruise Hitler movie.
Right. So Tom Cruise passed on it.
Well, we have some news. Okay.
It was just so, so great. It's so good.
And so you do that. I mean, this is like, it's such a, yeah, as Jason said, I mean, and it sounds like very sort of highbrow, and it is, but at the same time, it's very accessible, and it's just so, I don't know, there's something really, and it's playful, and it's real, and there's a lot going on, and it really hits you in so many different ways.
And I like a film like that where you can't describe it as... It's not really a comedy.
It's not really a drama. It sort of treads that little path in between the things.
And, you know, I needed to make it... You know, we've all seen great Holocaust films, you know, Schindler's List and so forth.
And I don't think I could have made one of those very serious films. And we've seen so many of them.
And I think if you want to get a message across or talk about something heavy like that, you've got to find different ways of telling that story. And one way, which I think is the most important way of telling stories like that, is using humor.
Yeah weren't you never asked for a laugh you were simply just in this wonderful kids perspective and and that just allowed you so much latitude um yeah it was just i think i think with also with hitler it wasn't really hitler's is an imaginary hitler from the mind of an 11 year old boy so You could only know what an 11-year-old knows. That's why he's a buffoon and an idiot.
Yeah, it's great. I love when Jews tackle that topic.
It's just beautiful. Like Mel Brooks always.
You, Spielberg, I love the dichotomy of them telling the story from their artistic point of view.

You don't want to see a Hitler movie from me.

No.

No, no, no.

Not at all.

Not with a mustache like that.

Okay.

He never got this wide.

And we will be right back.

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Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about all the time, is Scotty.
And of course, my two besties, Will and Jason. Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it.
And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist. And I've been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great.
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And now back to the show. Hey, let me ask you this.
You touched on it, Tyken. It's one of the things I said sort of in my rough intro, but you are such a super hilarious dude just as a person.
And I think that one of your superpowers is using, you always find a way to make everything you do fun and funny. Like even, by the way, even Our Flag Means Death, which is a kind of a love story between these two guys.
And it's told, and it's, but it's a pirate show, but it's really a comedy. But I mean, it's more of a comedy probably than a lot of your other stuff.
But you always have such great elements of humor. And I know that you use it in your real life too.
And it's one of the things that I like. I'm drawn to other people who can have a sense of humor about A, themselves, and B, that no matter how serious the subject is, that there's always a way to access it through humor.
You know, to sort of undercut it. And how important is that to you when you're thinking about making stuff? Because you don't get really, like, too earnest, really.
No. Well, coming from New Zealand, we have a very sensitive cheese meter, earnest meter.
You know, when we see something, we feel like, oh, it's a bit cringey. We try and avoid doing it.
And I think all the best comedies I've ever seen have just had that real mix of light and dark. And that's what life is every day.
It's full of tragedy and comedy. And that's why I like my films and the things I do just to have a mix of both those things.
What were some of those growing up that you loved? One of your favorite movies that were inspirations. Well, growing up, when I was like, I mean, the things I loved, you know, really young Blackadder and, you know, British TV comedies, like Fawlty Towers and things like that, which were, you know, real straight comedies, but they did it really efficiently and really well.
But, you know, I think Strangelove is, you know, one of the best comedies that's been made. I love The Graduate.
One of the best comedies I've ever seen is Flight of the Conchords, which you were a part of. And I thought when that came out, I was like, well, my life has changed.
That's the funniest show I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, Jermaine and Brett are fantastic.
And, you know, Jermaine, I write with still and make stuff with him a lot now. Time Bandits were making a TV, we're turning that into a TV show.
Yeah, oh, you are? That's awesome. Still do a lot of writing together and he's still, I think, the best writer ever.
How did you, yeah, I wanted to know, how did you and Jermaine and Brett kind of come to know each other? What was that like? We met in university and Jermaine and I, we were auditioning for like a university kind of end of year comedy show thing and we saw each other in the library and I think instantly took a disliking to each other just the best of the way we looked and then it took about two or three months before we started to get on and yeah, they were being best mates ever since. Fuck.
With all of your success and artistic accolades and all that stuff, you now, I'm sure, a pitch like Jojo Rabbit would not be quite as difficult because people trust you. How did you find, you know, when you started your career, you had that sense of humor that was you know and the cheese meter and in other words you wouldn't you wouldn't go to the to the extremes to to make an audience feel super comfortable hold anybody's hand like this this country hollywood uh a lot of the people in charge will ask you to do uh they won't really give you the latitude to to oh yeah kind of uh keep the edges of keep the edges.
How did you get through that period and not just hit, fuck it, these people don't get what I've got? I did think that all the time, and I still do. It's so funny here.
You have to explain everything. Everything that gets made, everything's explained.
You want to just say, trust me, just let me show you some footage, but they'll never let you get there. Yeah, but I mean, even to the audience, you have to explain everything throughout the story, every beat of the way.
And so, like, there are no surprises, there are no, like, putting, like, trusting the filmmaker to deliver the story, you know, in their own way. But I would just come to, I'd make a film in New Zealand, I'd come here and show it at Sundance or something and no one would see it and then studios would say, do you want to do this film? And we, you know, some, I'm not going to say horrible, but, you know, like a rom-com or something that wasn't really up my alley.
And then I'd think, nah, I'll go back to New Zealand and make another thing. And I just kept doing that about four or five times until finally I did.
And then what we did in the shadows was really the one that kind of, I think, had more traction in the States, even though it was still kind of small, cultish. But was that HBO? No, that was a film, and then we turned that into a show.
Then Marvel asked me to come in and pitch on Thor. Yeah, well, you did Hunt for the Wilder People in between that? Yeah, Hunt for the Wilder People.
And that, I don't know how these films did, actually. I don't really remember.
Are you getting checks? Are you getting a lot of checks in the mail? You know, I think I've seen these checks. But I was going to say, so then you do, but you do that stuff.
You know, it's funny. We were working on Flag Means Death, and Taiki goes, we have worked together before.
And at this point, he had made two or three films in New Zealand. Okay, so he was like a legitimate filmmaker.
And like he said, you had opened at Sundance at least twice, I think, and whatever, and he'd done this video. Sean, I think Sean's in it too, isn't he? Is Sean in it? Maybe not.
Maybe. We did for like an upfront, like a...
It was for the Super Bowl. Super Bowl for NBC.
It was for NBC, and it went through all the shows on NBC. And it was the Brotherhood of Man song from that musical, and it cut to all the different shows.
From How to Succeed. And they did a verse or a couple of lines from the show.
And it cut to me and Maya and Christina Applegate and Maya Rudolph and me. And Tiger goes, we have work together.
And he showed me this. That's a stupid video.
By the way, who else was in that? Who else was in that? Donald Trump. Did he really? I directed.
Apprentice. I directed Trumpy.

Really?

Wow.

Did you have a set of specifications that you had to adhere to?

Yep, there was a list.

There was a piece of paper with a list of demands.

Right, the way that he likes to be lit, the height of the camera.

Yep, height of the camera, exactly.

It had to be a certain height to make him look a little thinner.

And yet, I think it had like a sort of whatever the Pantone of Orange was that he had to appear as on screen and he had a sort of like a makeup person who was also his ego booster so she would touch him up and say oh Mr. Trump oh Mr.
Trump you love wait was I did we was I in that were you in that I don't know maybe I don't know? Were you in that? I don't know, maybe.

I don't know if you were in the...

You're doing the reboot.

I don't know.

I don't know if you were in the promo.

But I was like, but it's so funny.

So here's Taika, like, fucking, like,

it's not like he discovered talent late in his life.

Like, he had it.

Right.

But he's coming to America, and they're offering him rom-coms,

and he's like, no, and he'll make a couple bucks

doing some video shit for people, like, for the Super Bowl,

and then he fucks off back to New Zealand

to make his, like, indies and do what he wants.

Yeah, that's... And Rom comes and he's like, no.
And he'll make a couple bucks doing some video shit for people, like for the Super Bowl.

And then he fucks off back to New Zealand to make his, like, indies and do what he wants. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
What made you think that, you know, Marvel is so incredible at doing their thing? I mean, they've got a product that is just incredible. It has made this industry twice as healthy as it's ever been.
but I think one should and does

and needs to adhere to a certain...

The parameters.

Parameters, because that audience expects certain boxes to be checked.

What made you think that your incredibly unique perspective on things

would be a fit for something that you would probably agree

needs to stay inside a certain boundary?

Jason, that's a wonderful question.

Thank you. unique perspective on things would be a fit for something that you would probably agree needs to stay inside a certain boundary.

Jason, that's a wonderful question.

Thank you.

It was a wonderful question.

Thank you.

I'm glad you asked that.

Thank you.

Will, did you hear all that?

I didn't know I said it's a wonderful question. A lot of compliments on that question.

I'm still basking in the glow of the question, to be honest.

I'm still reeling from that question.

I thought I'd get such a hard-hitting question.

It's so late, too, to be so articulate. I have another one.
Oh, God. I didn't even answer that question.
To watch you suck Marvel's dick for so long was a real treat. I took it all.
Did you see we took it all? You did take it all. Right down to the pubes.
Let's get the answer now. Okay.
Right down to the pubes. Oh, my God.
Jason watches gay porn in his free time. Fuck it.
What happened to me? You know what? I had no interest in doing one of those films. It wasn't on my whole plan of my career as an auteur.
But I was poor and I just had a second child. And I thought, you know what? This would be a great opportunity to feed these children.
Or do what my dad did. Go ahead.
Continue. I'm still doing my answer.
Sorry. No, no.
Yeah. Quiet, John.
Hang on. Hang on.
Okay. So then they called and they said, do you want to do this? And Thor was probably, let's face it, it was probably like the least popular franchise.
It was the, I'd never read Thor comics when I was a kid. That was the comic I picked up and was like, oh, it was never open.
And then I thought, and then I did some research on it and I read one. A full one.
Thor comic. Yeah.
All 18 pages or however long there. Sure.
I was still baffled by this character. And I thought, well, you know, if there's anything I can bring to this.
Let's be honest. When it comes to comics, I mean, red is a stretch.
Okay, go ahead. Sorry.
Looked at. Okay.
I flicked through. Yeah, that's enough.
And then pitched myself. I thought the only thing that I could bring was his character.
It's like just looking at Thor as a character. He's like a billionaire, lives in space, and, you know, he's just, he looks ridiculous.
And that was sort of the end. I was like, well, let's just highlight that.
He's like a rich kid. And I pitched that he's a bit like you and me, Jason, that he hates germs.
Right. And, you know.
That didn't scare the shit out of them? I think there was no place left to go with that thing. Everyone had passed.
Right, right, right. I was like, it felt like, I thought, wow, they called me and this was really the bottom of the barrel.
But Feige has taken nice swings on it. He has taken great swings.
Right, I mean, starting with Favreau, right? And then, I mean, like, and Kenneth Branagh and Chloe Zhao. Yeah, the Russos.
The Russos, like, I guess it has been directors that have been outside of the box, but... But they know what they're good at, right? They're good at keeping everyone in their lane and making sure they don't veer off into something else that doesn't feel Marvel.
So they bring people in who are good at story and making great characters and bring something unique and then they'll keep it within the Marvel. Right.
And you obviously had a great experience because you went back for one. Yeah.
Yeah, but itarok. Yeah, but it is true.
Like, I remember we have friends of ours who were doing another one of these, I won't name it, but it's a series of movies that takes place in space. And they went off a little bit, I think veered a little bit off the plan and ended up not working out because they had too many ideas that were outside of them.
That wasn't Marvel, though. No, no, no.
I didn't say it was Marvel. I said it's a different thing.
But it was outside of the playbook a little bit, right? Right, right. And so it made them nervous because they got a lot at stake.
Again, it's their property, and they got a lot at stake. So when they hired you, though, Taika, I mean, again, knowing you...
The fans hated it, by the way. They hated that I was doing this.
They hated Thor? No, the fact that I was...

Oh, really?

When I signed off for that first one,

and they're like,

who's this guy he's going to be?

No, but they fucking end up loving it.

My kids who are big Marvel fans,

like my son Abel still to this day,

when I told him that you were on the show tonight,

he was like,

wait, he's on the show tonight?

Because he loves fucking Thor so much.

Yeah, but he's an idiot, though.

No, he's not an idiot.

He's a funny fucking kid. Abel's the kid.
He's not a dullard like you. Wait, Tyka.
You get a compliment out of Archie, you got some. When you hear that about...
This is the seven o'clock vision. We're getting crouched.
Bateman's 45 minutes past gummy hour. And it's not...
Starting to shake. He's got the.
It is not pleasant. Amanda won't let him in.
Amanda's going to text him and say, you take that gummy and 15 minutes later you can come in the house. She leaves it on the front step.
Out on top of the mailbox. With the key next to the key.
I take a... He just paces outside waiting for it to kick in and then it's just a scratch at the door coming on not a bang at the door she's like and she's looking at her watch she's like 29 28 27 Taika when you hear that that fans like you said it made me happy okay next question the...
Almost in a legitimate spin.

Okay.

Right?

And then I have to ask about Mandalorian

because I'm a massive, massive, massive, massive fan of that series.

And so Scotty, my husband,

and how did you get Mandalorian?

And how...

By the way, and you voiced the droid, right?

Yeah.

IG-11?

I do it all.

So Jon... What did he voice, Sean? The droid.
The droid IG-11. Sorry, what's the serial number on the droid? Yeah, IG-11.
IG-11. Make sure to have that on the top of your head.
Fuck it. This is how you landed Scotty.
I always wonder. Hey, you went to IG-11? They're going to put...
Your headstone, when you die, your gravestone is just going to be blank. It's just going to be nothing.
Not even a date. No, it'll say sorry.
It'll say I apologize. He had fucking nothing.
So John said... Anyway, see, IG-11.
People walk by, oh, that's Sean. Well, yeah, IG-11, who Sean will know is based on IG-88.
That's correct. Wow.
Which is something I found out when I did The Mandalorian. Did that floor you as much as it's flooring me? Wait, you were about to say Favreau picked you up and said— He picked me up.
He picked me up. I was standing on corny, picked me up and said, come, kid, come and do an episode of Mandalorian.
And I went down. This was the first time I'd used that volume thing with the TV screens all in a big circle.
We shot most of the show on that. And he said, come and do this thing.
And it was great because I didn't have to write it and do anything to just turn up and direct. And it was awesome.
And he was there to help. And the first day, I was directing 75 stormtroopers.
Wow. Standing in a big, giant Stormtrooper battle.
That's so cool. Which was just fucking incredible.
It is cool. By the way, it's good that you had a guy like Favreau.
He's a friend of the show, and we like him a lot. I love that John Favreau.
Yeah, same here. Me too.
I'm sure he was fucking helpful as shit, because he's a cool dude. Yeah.
Taika, so why did you just fly into L.A., And where were you? I went to Scotland. Because? And I was hanging out in Scotland.
And so... Just hanging out? Airbnb had these special little pop-up places you can stay.
And I don't know if you've heard about this, but they made Shrek's Swamp with Shrek's house, a full replica of Shrek's tree and the house inside it. And everything is exactly like the movie, the bed, the table.
And Rita is such a fan. Your wife, Rita.
My wife. Yeah, amazing.
My ex-girlfriend. So she booked us in, and we went and stayed at Shrek's.
Hold on. And then we drove around Scotland and stuff, and we dressed up.
She bought costumes. Oh, wow.
Kinky, right? We dressed up as Shrek and Princess Fiona. Okay.
And she did some photos and just a video. Well, there goes the what do you do in your free time question, I guess.
Wait a second. Jason, the disgust on Jason's face.
I just, can I have 20 minutes of the interview real quick? Yes, go ahead. So, all right, so you are married to, you were dating her.
Rita Ora. And now, and now.
Incredible singer-songwriter. Now we're married.
And now you're married. Yeah.
Did you know that she was such a fan of Shrek before you put a ring on her finger? No. No, I did not know that.
So she's a big Shrek fan such that you went ahead and bought yourself a couple of first-class tickets all the way over to Scotland, and you stayed in a little grass hut or something? Yep. That was just part of the trip.
That was just one fun thing we got to do. That's fun, I guess.
And then we drove around Scotland. That's so nice.
That's pretty cool. I guess that's pretty cool.
Now, if they had, now, Sean, don't lie, if they had a place like this Airbnb that was Star Wars themed, would you take Scotty for his birthday surprise? Yeah. Of course.
Without a doubt. Yeah.
Would you fly all the way to Scotland for it? Do you love him that much? Probably not. Would you go to space for it? Absolutely.
If it existed in space, you would. Well, space is faster than it's out.
Would you like to go to space, Sean? Absolutely. Don space you would well space is fast would you like to go to space sean absolutely don't you would you no honestly now i i i played golf today with with with michael strahan who told me that he was he went up into that uh jeff bezos rocket thing that's what i would do you would do that absolutely now i just i would you go to space yeah Yeah, I'd go to space.
For how long? Oh, great question. Just a couple minutes.
I mean, what we... That's just a couple minutes.
That Bezos thing's a couple minutes. I just don't want to do anything that when I land, the euphoria is relief because I got away with something.
I feel like, you know, I just... I shouldn't be doing things that I get away with anymore.
Well, that's how we feel about our careers. Yeah, that's true.
Jason's like one of those dogs, you know, they have those collars and they set up the perimeter and the perimeter is the golf club at his house. Okay.
And if he goes any further, he fucking shocks him and it keeps him, you know. Keep it safe.
But Jay, it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing that you could just experience the view of space and the weightlessness, and, like, you can't ever... Oh, he loved the weightlessness, Jay.
Come on. That's true.
You're doing just for the weightlessness. No, no, no, you know what? You actually end up getting very bloated up there.
Do you think so? Yeah, no, I know so. You've seen those shots of the astronauts.
Your takeaway from the astronauts, from talking to people in space, is they look bloated, man? A little too bloated. A little too bloated and the hair all stands up.
I'm kidding. You know, I lean into all this stuff.
I don't care about the germs. Scotland sounds great with the Shrek thing.
And let's just get a parachute on me and get a plane going. This is all have loved, it would be great.
I was just now thinking about Scotland. I was thinking about JB in like medieval times when like people were like ripping, ripping, you know, ripping legs off of chickens and stuff at the meal and just, you know, biting into it and like...
You're not going to wash those hands? ...damp castle where nobody's had that and invented socks really yet. Or plumbing.
No plumbing, no bath. Toilet paper.
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All right, back to the show. I want to know, speaking of all these little things, Taika, what's it like? Like you seem, we don't know each other that well.
We met once and it was like such a highlight of, you know, my life meeting. I'm such a huge fan.
I've seen all your movies. I love Jojo Rabbit.
I've seen it like three times. Taika has no recollection.
No, of course not. I remember I almost put your jacket on.
Do you remember that? I don't remember that. I don't remember.
Oh, yeah. It was a great night.
It was a highlight for me as well. Okay, so, the little bit I know of you, you seem completely relaxed, low-key, chill, like normal, down-to-earth.
What do you do? He just mentioned he's married, by the way, so just fucking cool it. What do you do when you meet a personality that's totally opposite of yours, that you have to work with? You're like, oh, my God, this guy or this girl is way too much for me.
They're not on my level. How do you deal with that? I'd just say I'd just bitch about them

later.

You send all your notes in through the first

AD. Yeah, and then I

go home and this son of a bitch

who believes this guy.

At least we all do that.

Yeah. I mean, actors in

particular, just fucking hard work.

They're just fucking pain in the ass.

Oh yeah.

And then each actor's got a different way of

working that you've got to find out because they won't

Thank you. particular just right hard we're all nuts just pain in the ass most of all yeah so true and then each actor's got a different way of working that you've got to find out because they won't tell you and you've got to figure it out by watching them and you're like oh you're one of them yeah yeah yeah you're one of them and then there's always the other ones like oh let's do an impro taking oh god not them they take a one one for me now right one for me yeah yeah and you're like and those guys who like i talk about this a lot the crew loves that they go let's do an improv take I'm like fuck alright like are you at the point though in your career where you're just like you know I'm gonna hand pick the people I want the actors yeah and usually it's it's just people you trust and your friends but what were you gonna say Tyga so you're oh about the improvising you know you fucking roll the camera and then know, and a lot of actors' idea of improvising or ad-libbing is just say the first thing that comes into your head.
It doesn't have to help the scene at all or anything. They go, action, they go, cool, wall.
Yeah. And then you're like, fantastic, well done.
Right. That was the one for you, let's move on.
Right. Or it's just a list of jokes that 100% wrote the night before.
Right. Ian Morris texted me out of the blue today just so I can get a mention in on Ian, who co-wrote Next Goal Wins.
He's our mutual friend. And he texted me.
Sorry. So it's about soccer, yeah? Mm-hmm.
And Willie, what do you play in the film? Nothing. Taika asked me last minute to come in and just do a couple days to help out.
It's a small little role. Yeah.
But it makes a huge difference. The film is about the worst...
It's a true story about the worst soccer team in the world, which was the American Samoan soccer team. And in the history of the country, they'd never won a game or scored a goal.
Wow. And I think like in 2001 or something, they suffered the biggest international loss, which is still the record today, which was against Australia, and they lost 31-0.
Jesus. Let's figure that out.
What is that, a goal every three minutes? Yeah. Was anybody in the goal? Was there a goaltender? There was a guy in the goal.
Oh, bless him. I think he was quite traumatized by that.
And they lost to the Socceroos, who is not the best soccer team in the world. You know, but DC...
And then they got this coach in, Thomas Rongan they I think he might have been the only person who responded to the request he came into the island and got them into shape and then they ended up spoiler they scored a goal yeah yeah and it was a big and it was a massive deal and that person the guy playing that part is Michael Fassbender, who is a fantastic dude.

That man is gifted.

Brilliant actor.

And it was funny because he's done so many serious,

really heavy, he's got a new serious movie coming out next to you soon as well.

He's someone you can improvise.

He's very good.

He's a smart dude. He's so good in The Killer, too, the Fincher film.

It was fantastic.

I want to see that. I want to see that, too.
But anyway, and so you have Fassbender in there in a very sort of, like, comedic role. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Right? And I didn't think it would be that his role would become his comedic.
I thought that everyone else around him would provide the comedy, but he kept delivering and just gave him more things to do yeah was it was it was it twisting arms to get him uh in that film because you know he's he's he's much more interested in racing cars right now he's a race car driver yeah yeah he was doing that when i called him up he was uh you had to fit it in in between races yeah he said uh well i'm thinking about taking the year off and just racing. He's legit.
He's legit. And I said, well, it's in Hawaii.
And he said, I'll be there. He's got this love.
He's got the... Fassbender's got one of those...
Like, the more you ask him about what's going on in his life, the cooler it is. And he's like, yeah, yeah, man, wow, I'm racing this type of BMW and then I race this kind of thing and then where's that?

Well, we drove, we're in Portugal

and then we drove up to fucking Belgium

to do that thing and you're like, what kind of life

is this? This is a fucking life I want.

This is a real Steve McQueen life. Yeah, it's a

real Steve McQueen life.

Cool. He just channeled that whole

life. He's stolen that whole life.

He raced Le Mans last year.

Yeah, yeah. Fucking A.
Taika, how much time do you spend in uh new zealand versus the states um depending on what tax department is sure sure it changes it changes of course you should have said that a certain number of days i can stay in each place and you do the for each one of those, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
I have about 14 days left this year in the States. Are you being serious? Wow, come on, really? I'm serious.
Well, but you've timed it out. I've got to get out of here.
Yeah, yeah. But no, I try and spend a lot of time in New Zealand because my kids are there.
I try and come here because I want to see Will. Are they going to love this movie?

Are they soccer fans?

No, they don't care about soccer.

New Zealand is not a soccer country, really.

No, it's rugby, right?

It's rugby.

It's all rugby.

Are you a rugby fan?

I'm a massive rugby fan.

Really?

We just went to the World Cup games.

I just saw that.

We just lost the World Cup.

I watched that.

I'll tell you guys.

How did they do?

We got to the final

and then we lost.

Barely lost.

To South Africa.

To South Africa. You guys are the two powerhouses, right? Yeah.
Well, hang on. The Springboks, South Africa, barely beat England, let's be honest.
They were kind of charmed this tournament. Yeah.
And New Zealand had a really good chance. We had a good chance.
It's always close between those teams. Did you ever play rugby as a kid? I played rugby up until my late 20s.
I mean, it really hurts, doesn't it? There's no padding. It hurts still.
I get up in the morning and sometimes an ankle won't work or a knee won't work. All those little injuries you get in your 20s and you bounce back really fast, and now it's like your body.
Then your just punishes you later some people say that it's it's safer to tackle in that sport because there's no helmets you know so you you're actually a little bit more careful you you don't tackle with your head over here they just sort of just like just dive through the air with their head first yeah trying to stab people with their bodies well when this the cte uh stories stories were all about in the last five, ten years or something like that, there was a thought that maybe NFL would think about removing the helmets. Really? Yes, so that people would stop using their head as part of the tackle.
And all the other pads would still be on. You just have to learn how to just tackle differently like the folks that play rugby.
Yeah, you just tackle and move your head out of the way. Are they really less in rugby, those CTE injuries? Well, it seems like they have less concussions.
Wow, that's kind of amazing. Because you don't have that false sense of safety and security.
Yeah, you protect yourself. You don't make sure your head doesn't bang into anything.
That's interesting. That's interesting.
All right. So, Taika, hi.
What about like when you're directing something? Each time you talk to me, you say hi. Hi.
Because this might be usable for the first part of the interview. Sure, forget it.
We're not even going to do this. We might cut it.
We haven't started yet. Everything before this.
Yeah, we haven't started yet. So, Taika, hi.
Today's guest is Taika Waititi. Taika, welcome.
Hey, Taika. I have a question about your process.
When you are directing something, is there an itch to be in it always? Are you like, oh, God, I'm so glad I'm not in this? No, I really love being in it. I love acting.
I think it's fun, but only if it's something that I find fun and I've got control over that. Do you like the process of directing yourself? The fact that you don't have to? Yeah, I like it because it's easier for me to direct people in the scene as well.
I can just talk straight to them while I'm doing the lines. Yeah, doing the lines.
What if you have an actor that's not very pliable with all of that? Like they get upset that you're talking to them in the middle of the scene, that they want you to wait until after cut. You ever had one of those? I'm pretty lucky I haven't worked with people like that.
Maybe one or two, but I just sort of tend to ignore it. I tend to kind of cut them out of the cool group and then just ignore them and then they go left out and then they either quit or Just alienate and bully them on set until they quit.
I mean, film sets are like high school. You just, you know.
Yeah. Do you have siblings that have cool names like you too? Yeah, most people have got cool names.
My kids have got really cool names. My first daughter, her first name is Takainga Ote Henekahu, which means house or home of the she-hawk.
Wow.

And my second

daughter, Matewa, the literal translation

is Time of the Dead.

Wow.

That's awesome. Be careful what you name your kids.

Do you know that Sean

means I like

macaroni.

Not a lot of people know that. Not a lot of people know that.
I like macaroni. Yeah.
Not a lot of people know that.

Not a lot of people know that.

I like macaroni.

That's only if you spell it S-E-A-N.

You spell it S-H-A-W-N

and we'll tell them what that means.

That's Jason's improv.

I like setups.

I don't like punchlines.

And you say the other part.

You say the other part. Improv take and action.
You've got a poem you wrote. About this situation.
About this war. Tell them what you wrote.
You've got a poem you wrote and then point at the person. We did this fucking stupid bit for a long time.
Tyke and I were doing on texting each other. And we were doing Flag Means Death and there was this scene where Reese has to walk away and I said something to his character and then Tyke comes up behind me and goes, don't man, let him go, man.
Or something like this. But he said it in this, like we we were laughing because he was doing it on purpose to sound like it was, like, an after-school special.
And he grabbed my arm, like, just let him go, man. And so he said, just let him go, Johnny.
We'll get him next year. And we started laughing so fucking hard.
And everybody's like, what are you guys laughing about? And he kept going, don't worry about it, Johnny.

They were never like us.

We were always outsiders, Johnny.

The fucking director was like, you guys got to fucking cool it, man.

And then we would text each other these stupid things.

It's fun stuff, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

It sounds like a good time.

It does sound like a good time.

It's not funny anymore, Johnny.

People got hurt.

We killed a kid, Johnny. It's not a game anymore.
People are getting hurt. Fuck me, that gets me every time.
Taika, listen, this has been a pleasure. It's after 8 o'clock.
After 8 o'clock, everyone's pissed off. You just got off a fucking plane.
No one wanted to do this at this hour. Oh, are you kidding me? This is so weird.
Once I saw you, it was all on. Sean's like, you're like, it's 30 minutes past the ice cream sundae, right? How far are we past? You're joking, but that's exactly what I'm going to do right now.
I'm not joking. What are you going to have? What's on your sundae? I just put vanilla, ice cream, chocolate syrup, and whipped cream, and I do a whole thing of Haagen-Dazs.
No cherry. Because you start doing two scoops, and you're like, well, there's only two scoops left.
I might as well just finish. You do the whole pint.
Every single time. And let's see the proof of that.
Go ahead, stand up. Shake the cookie pouch.
Here it comes. There it is.
Yeah. Good for you.
Hey, you know what I'd say? You're enjoying life. Yeah.
That's exactly right. We only have five minutes.
Taika, you're a fucking superstar, dude. Yeah.
Love you, dude. I love you guys.
Thank you so much, man. Thanks for having me on this.
Thanks for doing this right off the plane. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, exactly.
Thanks for doing it right off the plane. You asked me if I'd do this about three years ago.
I know. I'm really happy.
I know, you did. Listen, for the record, I would have recorded this with you at 9 p.m.
Yeah. 10.
10. I could have another go at it.
I can do better. Well, thank you for eventually doing it.
I appreciate it, and I'll see you next week. Thank you, Taika.
See you next week. Thanks, guys.
Bye, Taika. Thanks, pal.
See you, guys. Well, you pulled it out of your hat there Willie I know yeah I know that was fantastic so wait now hang on a second that was our first official yawn I think we've ever had in over no you had one during the show that was quiet it was quiet yeah but I hide it behind the microphone so the guest doesn't see it or my co-host don't see it.
But we heard that one.

And so that's an evening record right there with the yawn.

Well, put it this way. And there's a belch.

Good.

Thank you, Sean.

It's 11 minutes after 8.

And I'll be asleep by 9.15.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I'll be asleep by 9.15.

So jelly.

What are you going to do right now until you go to bed?

Right now, I'm going to go up.

I've got the little kids.

Make sure that they're down.

I'm going to go up.

I got the little kids, make sure that they're down, going to sleep.

Okay.

I'm going to go in there and see what's going on on MSNBC.

Wonderful.

See if you're going to have a Sunday.

I'm going to make a Sunday and sit on the couch and get fat.

So listen, Taika. Are you going to watch This Old House?

No, that's Sundays.

I watch that Sundays a lot.

Yeah, that's Sundays with Sundays. You don't have a...

Do you...

Oh, that's so good.

I know. Just fucking write it down.

Scottie! Hey...

Wait, Taika... What will you watch tonight?

Before we get... Well, sorry, yes, let's get into Taika.

How great is Taika? How funny and

cool and rad is he? Yeah, he seems very

hip and cool and like...

He was hard to get on because he kept

like, it was changing and then he was like,

Thank you. how great is Todd? How funny and cool and rad is he? Yeah, he seems very hip and cool and like, you know.
He was hard to get on, because he kept like, it was changing and then he was like, like two years ago, I was like, hey, will you do, like right when he came to the podcast. He was on my list too, yeah.
And I go, come do the podcast. He's like, yeah.
I was like, great. And then like, trying in the schedule and then he's always in like England and New Zealand and shooting stuff and whatever.
He also just doesn't care in the best way. No, he doesn't.
That sexy indifference, right? It's just like, well, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
I was in Atlanta a few months ago earlier this year and I get a text and I said, listen, you or your doppelganger, or either you or your doppelganger just walked into a restaurant in Atlanta and went upstairs. And then I walked downstairs and there he was on the ground floor with Rita.
Where? In Atlanta? In Atlanta. Just recently? Yeah.
Well, no, no, no, a few months ago. He's just such a fucking cruel.
And that's when you closed the deal for the. Yeah, but that was one of the other times that he was like yeah i can't wait to do it and then he's one of those but he's one of those people too that kind of created his own style of comedy oh my god yeah yeah he's he doesn't have to jay you said he doesn't ask for it he he he's created his own lane.
Yeah. He's created his own lane.
Yeah. He's created

his own lane and

he doesn't

you get this

and it's true. You get the sense he doesn't really

it's not that he doesn't care about what other people

are doing. It's just that he's into what he's

doing in a way and he's confident

about it. He's super smart

and

super funny and self-deprecating and all of those kind of great things. But it seems like he's more concerned in the best way about making himself proud and making himself laugh than other people and other people's opinions or their ability to get what he's doing doesn't really guide what he's doing.

No, he's genuine.

He literally just sent me a text talking.

Like, he's a sweet, thoughtful person.

Yeah, he seems like it.

And you know what? These days, those kind of people, they're hard to come.

Bye!

Wonderful.

Bye.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

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Let's listen in on a live, unscripted second grade challenger school class. They're studying Charlotte's Web.
What words did this author use to describe this barn?

Descriptive words.

Wonderful.

Can you find some adjectives in there?

New is an adjective describing rope.

Webber is an adjective and it modifies boots.

Those students are seven.

Starting early and starting right makes a real difference.

Learn more at challengerschool.com.