"Ben Affleck"

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Speaker 2 Boy, you know, I just can't get enough of that opening song.

Speaker 1 I just think it's just great. It's under our voices right now.
Can you hear it right under us? Right, yeah, and it just kind of gets me going. Oh, I'm being real buoyed by it.

Speaker 1 I know, it's boring by this.

Speaker 2 Well, you always call me a robot. It's kind of like my little theme song.

Speaker 1 I know, right? Yeah, yeah, it is like a little thing for a little robot theme, but it's playing underneath us right now. She's going to kick it in a second, kick it in.
Just

Speaker 1 kick it in, kick it in. Three, two, one.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Less.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 so we had a little record earlier today, and now we're having our second record. There was a gap in between where lunch usually sits.
And I always, whenever this happens, I love to know what Sean had.

Speaker 1 Oh, good. I had

Speaker 1 chicken curry with rice and

Speaker 1 cauliflower and sweet potatoes. And then I had a huge bowl of ice cream after.
Wait, you had chicken curry with rice? Yeah, I did not, I did not know that, Chef, we already made that.

Speaker 1 That's funny.

Speaker 1 That's true. But you see, I didn't change.
I'm still in my Smartlist merch shirt.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Smartlist merch.
There's some good stuff in there.

Speaker 2 I guess I shouldn't be surprised because we looked at it all before it went in there.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you something. I slept in this.

Speaker 1 Shopsmartlist.com. It's the best thing.
Oh, it's sleepable. Is that what it is? Wait, is it shopsmartlist.com for real? Shopsmartlist.com.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 What's it again? Sorry, Sean. What'd you say?

Speaker 1 shopsmartlist.com it's great it's i'm telling you you are you sleep in the sweats you put the hat on when you roll out of bed it's great who um

Speaker 1 did you design the blanket those big heavy blankets you did right you wanted i didn't design them but i what's that you wanted the heavy blanket i wanted the heavy blanket because i have an issue with a throw blanket a throw blanket covers one leg right so i never understood the the the function of a throw blanket no i'm saying i like it because it's it's it's weighty yeah it's weighty and it's big it covers your whole body and it's uh it's like um what do you call it?

Speaker 1 Warm?

Speaker 1 Like fleece, I guess? Yeah. Hey, by the way, you know what I did? Oh, definitely whisper.
Yeah, that's going to be. For Scotty, I got him a surprise.
I got John Williams, the composer,

Speaker 1 to sign a page of the E.T. score

Speaker 1 for Scotty.

Speaker 1 How'd you do that?

Speaker 1 A friend of mine knows his friends with his daughter, and then we just kind of made it happen. Are you guys good at that? Are you good?

Speaker 2 Well, it sounds like you are, Sean, where you sort of like you remember what your friend or partner or kid or whatever really loves and you work on it for a few months

Speaker 2 and you get the perfect gift.

Speaker 1 Like, do you do that? I love doing that. Yeah.
Really? Yeah. Hey, Will.

Speaker 2 You don't need to go up high like everybody in the world does it except you, Jason.

Speaker 1 I don't do it. So that's why I do it.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Will's very good at throwing money at a gift.

Speaker 1 Sean, and I am very good at that.

Speaker 2 You're very good at that. Whereas, Sean, you'll do sort of a sentimental thing, or I remember you said in July that what you wanted for Christmas was...
That's right.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 I clocked last year for

Speaker 2 Maple's birthday.

Speaker 1 She just mentioned that she loved skateboarding, so I got her skateboard or a certificate for a skateboarding thing.

Speaker 2 Yes, and we went and spent the hell out of that.

Speaker 1 Did you?

Speaker 1 That's how she broke all her teeth. Remember? Thanks, Sean.

Speaker 1 Remember that time she broke her arm and all her teeth came.

Speaker 1 She had to to spit her teeth out that's why she's got those flippers now and we've got this memory of her and she takes her teeth out every night she thinks of you and she has to take them out by the way though back to the ice cream thing yeah I didn't tell you this Jay last episode we recorded you we talked about you having their what is it called the root root canal yeah I had a cavity you had one and I just got yeah just last week and I got a crown not possibly your first no oh my god I have so many but at 52 years old I have a cavity oh they're gonna start coming fast and future.

Speaker 1 That is strange. Let's take a look at your diet.

Speaker 2 But what is strange about things on your body degenerating as you get older?

Speaker 1 Well, but I floss and I brush and I do everything. So it's like water.

Speaker 2 Teeth don't play by that.

Speaker 1 No, because they're sitting in sugar all day. Yeah.
I will say this.

Speaker 2 When you're having ice cream, when you're having dessert for lunch, breakfast.

Speaker 1 You have a situation. He had dessert for breakfast the other day.
Hey, I did have a thing

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 one of my favorite sweeteners that I use, I don't want to say which one, with my coffee, because I thought, oh, I'm not having sugar for a few years. I've been using a sweetener.

Speaker 1 And I see that one of its ingredients, this study came out yesterday, a huge study saying that it causes like

Speaker 1 strokes and heart attacks and shit. Yeah.
Oh, I saw that. Yeah.
Yeah. Really? I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm so fucking bummed.

Speaker 2 Well, so you don't want to say this publicly since it's already public?

Speaker 1 Well, just because it's in other, so I don't want to call out the one particular brand. Yeah.
Yeah. It's being reported on or whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, so the sweet, the, the, the, the, the the sweetening component is the problem not the brand right one of the ingredients in it so then what is the ingredient do you remember i forget

Speaker 1 if i'm

Speaker 1 agave no is it agave it's in a lot of it's in a lot of the sort of stevia centric sweeteners have it in yeah yeah is that is that what you're using yeah i'm mainline stevia down yeah so so a lot i don't know if pure

Speaker 1 i don't know but i i know that some of them have it in anyways guys i know kind of real uplifting huh all right let's get to it are we ready for a guest? Oh, I guess let's get to the guest.

Speaker 2 Before I die, let's get it done.

Speaker 1 At least we'll know why.

Speaker 1 I got to say, I get some of the best guests. This guy has had not.
Did you write this intro?

Speaker 2 Did you write this intro? This is the intro, yeah. Did you write it?

Speaker 1 Of course I did, yeah.

Speaker 1 This guy has had not one, but two songs written about him by a huge pop star.

Speaker 1 Most would agree he's Hollywood royalty, being being an Academy Award-winning filmmaker, a heavy-hitting movie star who's portrayed a very famous DC comic book character on screen multiple times.

Speaker 1 I knew her. But most importantly, just an all-around great guy that I'm so happy to call a friend who I love a whole bunch, and I know you fellas do too.
Please welcome to Smartless Mr.

Speaker 1 Benjamin Geza Affleck Bolt.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 There he is. Oh, I love him.
I love him. Very nice.
Wait a second.

Speaker 2 How did Sean get you when I don't?

Speaker 1 God damn it. Because I like him and he's a great guy.

Speaker 2 You are a good actor. I always feel like I'm liked when I'm around you.

Speaker 1 Where are you? Are you in the basement?

Speaker 1 I'm in my lair.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Because crime might need to be fought.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Wait, what songs have been written about you? Dear Ben and Dear Ben Part 2. And they've been written about me have been written by the greatest

Speaker 1 performer in the history of the world, Jennifer Lopez. I don't know that they're exactly so much about me as maybe inspired by because,

Speaker 1 you know, because there's some negative things. So they're aimed at you.

Speaker 2 I was going to say, are they flattering?

Speaker 1 She's amazing. Yes.
Can you imagine? And

Speaker 1 also, there is a third song written about me, but not by anyone gifted.

Speaker 1 Jimmy Kimmel wrote a song about me called Fucking Ben Affleck. Wait,

Speaker 1 did Jennifer write the songs about you during or when you weren't dating?

Speaker 1 Jennifer.

Speaker 1 You know what, Jason?

Speaker 1 I just want to know if there had been songs. Over and over.
And I tell you, if you want to ask Jennifer about her career, if you're interested in her work, go ahead and screw your courage

Speaker 1 and ask her.

Speaker 2 I learned a lot about her with that great documentary.

Speaker 1 I love that. That was really good.
I love that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love it. I did watch that.
That was very good. That was incredible.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and by the way, that's the first time, I know we're going to interview you in just a second, but Jennifer Lopez, who was on Will and Grace twice or three times or whatever.

Speaker 1 Was she on Will and Grace? That's funny. And I was, was I not one, two, no times.
No, you weren't.

Speaker 1 This is the story of my life. Will was, I wasn't.

Speaker 1 But she was, but that documentary blew me away because I was like, my God, what the woman has accomplished is astounding.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and she's just, it takes a big man not to feel inadequate in the face of my wife's machiny.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 no, but she, but you too, you too. You've accomplished.
Oh, I don't feel bad about myself. It's not so much.
I'm not low self-esteem.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm fishing a little bit, but not the... No, the truth is it's amazing.
Sometimes I think I completely forget because here's this incredible actress and this incredible performer.

Speaker 1 And then we're sitting in the car, you know, and I'm humming along, like I will, you know, the radio.

Speaker 1 And then a professional singer goes ahead and sings along, and you kind of feel like, well, that's embarrassing.

Speaker 1 Maybe I should just zip it. Do you know all her music? Don't lie.
I do know.

Speaker 2 Can you sing all of her songs?

Speaker 1 Not to you.

Speaker 2 No, but you know them, though?

Speaker 1 I can't get a J-Lo's song past you that you haven't heard. Waiting for the night.

Speaker 1 That's the remix. There it is.
That's the remix. I like when Sean does it kind of sounds like Cher is doing a remix.
Oh, waiting for the night. It was like a Cher waiting for something.

Speaker 1 I think Crosswords might go.

Speaker 1 Now you're making me self-conscious. Like, oh, gosh, if I were on Jeopardy, would I miss a question? But I do love her music.
It's brilliant. And I know

Speaker 1 all of it. Thank you.
Yeah, Jason, don't put him on the fucking spot like a shit.

Speaker 1 Fuck, what do you mean?

Speaker 1 We don't even remember your wife's birthday. Yeah.
No, I'm pretty sure that's her DNA. It is surprising.
Now, wait a second. Now, Ben.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi, Ben Affleck. Like Ben Affleck sign.
Hi, Ben. I don't really.

Speaker 1 We don't know anything. Thank you.
Somebody. Yes, hi.

Speaker 1 I don't have the pleasure of knowing you, but everybody who knows you likes you a great deal.

Speaker 1 And there's often like Bateman,

Speaker 1 he's doing the same thing with Bateman, which is really so I mean

Speaker 1 surprising that you know it is it is surprising

Speaker 1 and as you know yes so you but you and Jason have known each other for a number of years yeah I've known Jason a long time and I had the chance to do like now four movies with the guy I know and by the way the trailer for airline

Speaker 1 incredible looks amazing for your guy for the new movie you guys did that you've invited Jason to be part of and any regrets and you can be honest now you can be, if you have regrets about I gotta tell you, I mean, usually, and I hate, you know, when people come on shows and they're like, you know, you're great, no, but what you bring

Speaker 1 because it's just so fucking boring to listen to.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 1 And let me tell you why, because it's actually true. And I've lied so many times that it's nice to get the chance.
Jason is fucking amazing

Speaker 1 in the movie. And

Speaker 1 he has the hardest part in the movie, which is the part where you're supposed, you're the guy who's like, but if we don't make it to the train station by six, you know, the whole time, you know, it's constantly having to tell the audience what the stakes are.

Speaker 1 Look out. What's going to happen? Turn right.

Speaker 1 And somehow, like, made himself, you know, the most, I think, like, the most

Speaker 1 compelling, real.

Speaker 1 You're drunk. It's brilliant.

Speaker 1 A lot of it's improv and funny, and a lot of it's just humanity, but it's, Jason's brilliant, and it was such a, I was really lucky because that it's what Matt did, very easy.

Speaker 1 You're the lead, and you're that guy, and you have those lines. Exactly.
You know what this scene is? This is me looking out the window. Listen to the music.
You know, that's going to help you.

Speaker 1 That's the wind that you're back. That was the one working.

Speaker 1 Do you know, by the way, you should know, Ben, that we were at, we watched the Super Bowl at Kimmel's.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I have a problem. This is a problem.

Speaker 1 Hang on, so we're watching.

Speaker 1 And at that moment that the ad for your movie came on, Jason and I were sitting there and Jimmy happened to kind of drift in right between us. And then I said, hey, quiet, everybody.

Speaker 1 Here's the commercial for the big movie. And Jason was all excited.
And then there was just a silhouette for a second and then nothing. Silhouette.

Speaker 1 And then Jason's daughter goes, Dad, I thought you were in that movie. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 In front of my kids' bed.

Speaker 1 That can't be true. Well, it's a true story, right, Jason?

Speaker 2 Is that true? It's a true story. But listen, there's many different things.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's my fault in the sense that I did see it and not notice.

Speaker 1 But it's not my fault in the sense that I didn't make it. And Libby, can I talk to your daughter?

Speaker 1 Your daddy's very good. This is

Speaker 2 all a joke, but it was actually pretty funny.

Speaker 1 It was like, hey, thought you were in that.

Speaker 2 And everybody goes back to their chips.

Speaker 1 I've been there.

Speaker 1 Things aren't panning out in your career and you've been in the movie and all of a sudden you're like, I think I show up in this train.

Speaker 2 No, the worst is when you're at the premiere and they go past the point where you know your big scene was and it's now gone. And they've moved on and you're like, oh, guess that was cut.

Speaker 1 You're like, mom, no, this is where I have the monologue.

Speaker 1 Oh, maybe it comes later now. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's during the credits. I saved it for during the credits.

Speaker 1 Anyway, I'll do it for you at home. It'll probably be special features.

Speaker 1 So, Ben, talk to me a little bit about, you know, we had Matt who came and joined us on

Speaker 1 tour. He came to Madison, Wisconsin.
When you think Madison, Wisconsin, you think Matt Damon. That's the thing about Matt is he'll always do something nicer than me.

Speaker 1 Matt is is like, Matt, hey, what you're doing is great. You know, Matt went a whole lot further.
No, no, no, great. No, but we did.

Speaker 1 But we talked to him about how you guys started and how you guys knew each other back in the day and what that was like when you guys were kind of

Speaker 1 really cool. Yeah, it was great really hearing from him.
And I'd love to hear your perspective of how you guys, and I'm sure you've told it a million times, so forgive me

Speaker 1 if it's boring. But for us, it's really, I love that story.
And I told Matt, I remember we made this really bad,

Speaker 1 I say bad, my friend wrote it, but this really pretty chintzy version of a movie called Southy. And you guys came to the rap party that I was in.
And then you guys were about to do Goodwill Hunting.

Speaker 1 And then our movie was like, they buried it under a couch somewhere. And then you guys went on to like amazing.
But I just love the beginnings of what you and Matt did. And I want to hear it from you.

Speaker 1 Because I think it's a great story. And by the way, I had no idea you guys grew up so close to each other.
No idea. Yeah, we do.
First of all, it's like

Speaker 1 it's a really lucky thing. It occurs to me now.
I saw him the other day when doing this movie together.

Speaker 1 Very few people are lucky enough to spend their life in the same line of work with their best friend from when they were kids, manage to...

Speaker 1 you know, stay friends, not end up hating each other, actually be friends and love each other.

Speaker 2 And not have one of them soar to the stratosphere and the other one be, have nothing ever happened.

Speaker 2 But no, no, no, but I'm saying like that's like that's what usually happens the fact that both you guys are superstars yeah um so in context the reason we're asking this hacky question is because

Speaker 1 in air the film that we're talking about ben for the very very first time directs matt i love it it's full circle i love it i love it yeah i mean it was something that seemed really normal and that i took for granted because there we were we were kids who he was a bigger kid uh for a brief period i was eight he was ten he was a big kid, he played baseball, he was really cool, he had a bowl cut that was a little feathered that we all wanted, of course.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he was, you know, nice to me. And we were both interested in the same thing.
I mean, just kids who grew up two blocks apart and both wanted to be actors

Speaker 1 for whatever reason it is that makes you want to do that thing and hung out and then we're in the same the same friend group and then sort of went off and did like, oh, let's, you know, we're just like dumb and enough to think like it'll pan out for us we'll just go be actors we'll just go work you know and and kind of sort of believe in it and then live together but i think the reason why it wasn't a thing that sort of competition thing that you talk about is because we did a lot of auditioning very early on for for for for the Mickey Mouse Club, for example.

Speaker 1 I think maybe for some of Jason's early work.

Speaker 2 Gosling got the Mickey Mouse job.

Speaker 1 He did. He was one of them.
Yes, we did

Speaker 1 a Corey Corey Hayme film called Soulman. I remember we both auditioned for.

Speaker 1 We both auditioned for Robin and the Clooney movie. No way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were extras together all the time. Matt did Mystic Pizza.
He had a line in that. I didn't get it.

Speaker 1 And always the thing was we would get our little act together and practice our scenes and do our workshops. I mean, nerdy doesn't even begin to describe it.
Really?

Speaker 1 But it really was a genuine thing where we were like, look, I hope I get the part. But if I don't, I really hope you do.

Speaker 1 Right, and you know, for a while, we had this thing where we're like, Well, just split all our money, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 You guys get high voices, we like, oh, you know, did you really say that? We really did, and we really split the money. We put it in the bank account at the time.
I was

Speaker 1 like, Tyler's share of the money, yes, no way. How old were you? Yes, sam.
We had a joint bank account. I, I think I was, I was 14, Matt was 16, something like that.
Oh, that's cool,

Speaker 1 ATM, and then

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 what do you want to get?

Speaker 2 I saw you made a big withdrawal last weekend.

Speaker 1 Joking as much as you are, but it does show that on a certain level, there is a trust there that you guys just trust each other implicitly, that there's just, right? That that's on a very basic level.

Speaker 1 I like took for granted that he liked me and rooted for me and wanted me to succeed.

Speaker 1 We just didn't, we're lucky enough not to have the friendship of that, the whole like, it's not enough that I succeed. All my friends have to fail thing.

Speaker 1 Like, and I, there are people I've wanted to fail. You know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 1 I can be just as petty and bitter as any other actor. But I loved them.
And he loved me. And it felt like we would work the scenes together.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it actually, I think what made us sort of good writers and better actors was that we learned very early on to hear, like, I'm not sure that works, that choice, you know, and you go, okay, let's try something else, you know, and get our facts, our sides.

Speaker 1 Let's try a lower voice. Do you ever give that no? That I had to hit puberty.
And that's how that happened in those.

Speaker 1 So wait, but you, but when you say you grew up, you grew up together in Boston, right? But you were born or raised in California? Like, what's the case?

Speaker 1 I was born in California. My parents were

Speaker 1 teaching at an experimental school outside Berkeley, briefly. And then, actually, my mom.
Yes. And then I moved back to Boston around two or three.
I moved into

Speaker 1 Central Square in Cambridge. And then Matt moved there from Newton when I was eight, and he was 10.
And that's when we met

Speaker 1 at the basketball. And you got a Burger King commercial? That was your very first thing? Listen, I had done a Burger King commercial.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm sure you remember the slogan was, sometimes you got to break the rules. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I'm a little bit of a rule breaker.

Speaker 1 Really quick,

Speaker 1 these guys are going to love this. I did a McDonald's commercial.

Speaker 1 One of my first things where

Speaker 1 I worried about how I was going to impress a girl. And the catchphrase from my guy scene partner was, don't worry about it.
I was like, how am I going to pay for the date? Don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 That's my story. So wait, go back to the Burger King.
Holy shit. You're getting

Speaker 1 higher. Ben's

Speaker 1 ahead of steam going. You're going to be

Speaker 1 a job

Speaker 1 without a podcast.

Speaker 1 Punchline? Out of gas. Jesus.
Boy.

Speaker 1 Wait, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1 Anyway, let me just, can I regroup? Do you mind?

Speaker 1 Oh, Ben, take all the time. Start over.
Shake it off. Wait, and then you're like, you're crying.

Speaker 1 So we were, I've established that we were very nerdy and a little weird. We used to have business lunches in what was called the media cafeteria.
Amazing. Which at the time,

Speaker 1 there was a big ESL

Speaker 1 portion of our public high school, which is like 2,600 kids. And that was where the ESL kids, I don't know why that was where we liked to be surrounded by people who spoke other languages.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure what it was, but maybe we didn't want them to actually hear our business lunches because no business was conducted.

Speaker 1 But we plotted things. We planned our careers.

Speaker 2 Look at you now. Look at the business you guys are in now.
Artist equity, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it is bizarre

Speaker 1 to have gone this far. And definitely a lot of, I don't think I would,

Speaker 1 would be sane or as sane to the extent that I am had I not had somebody who was from where I grew up and who was my best friend and who was going through the same thing.

Speaker 1 So you could, because I'm sure you guys all know there are these moments in this business where you look around and go, like, is this completely insane? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I feel as though, you know, I'm coming unglued and having that one, someone to share that perspective.

Speaker 1 And then so as we went on and on, so finally got to a place where, like, with Last Duel, it was like, why haven't we just, we had so much fun. Every day on that set was so much fun.

Speaker 1 And we're just like, let's just do this. Let's just do movies together and with people we like.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 Going back, the first thing that kind of launched was, was it dazed and confused or was it something before that? And what's the story about Vince Vaughan?

Speaker 2 He's asked a two-parter there. You can take him one at a time, or you can ask him to repeat it when he just.

Speaker 1 I get excited. I get excited.
I know it. I know it.
Do you ever write any stuff? You have to stand in the pre-interview, the Vince bit.

Speaker 1 I don't know where you're going with that. No, but I heard.
I heard that. I do know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I do know that I had done a couple of, I was the more experienced. I don't want to make Matt feel insecure.
Sure. I had some early experience with professional actors.

Speaker 1 You're actually selling burgers, you know?

Speaker 1 Well, not only did I sell burgers, but I don't know if you know your public television history. I was on a show.
Voyage of the Mimi. No, Voyage of the Mimi.
Yeah. A science.

Speaker 1 It was also shown to sixth graders for their science class because I think because it was so gripping.

Speaker 1 And a young boy and his grandpa

Speaker 1 renting out a boat to scientists for experiments. And so I would periodically go off and do a little Voyage of the Mimi.
So Matt was a little threatened by that.

Speaker 1 And when I got to the high school, he kind of pulled me aside. And he said, listen, man,

Speaker 1 all right. This is the theater.
It's not about your looks,

Speaker 1 okay? It's about the work.

Speaker 1 And I took that very seriously. I felt that I I was hearing something, you know, real, like the words of wisdom from a guy who understood it.

Speaker 1 I didn't know until that time he felt I'd been entirely bogarting my way through life on like wit and charm and looks, of which there were very few.

Speaker 2 Well, but no, it sounds like actually you came roaring into high school just killing it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you were crushing you and Matt. And Matt, I mean, by the way, I mean, again, no insult to Matt, but it sounds like he felt threatened by you, Ben.
And I want to just.

Speaker 1 I think maybe, I think maybe it was a little

Speaker 1 The other thing he said to me is like, you know, the thing about Hoffman and Salesman is you can see the wheels turning, but he wants you to see the wheels turning.

Speaker 1 That didn't be 15 years old, man.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 1 That's hysterical. That's a true story.
That's fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 However, that's why he's brilliant, because that guy has been absolutely convinced that and has paid attention to like, you know, very little else in his free time other than acting Since he was a little kid, doing Wheelock Community College theater when he was 11 years old.

Speaker 1 And he's been with absolute conviction that this is what he was going to do. And he was a lot smarter about it than me.
He understood a lot earlier on. He was like, it's just all about the director.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to focus on the director. He was like passing on parts when we were broke.
I was like, what are you passing on? You can't pay the gas bill.

Speaker 1 How is this not good enough for you? Because he didn't like the director? Yeah, he just didn't feel

Speaker 1 he didn't have anything to offer. You know? And it was like,

Speaker 1 I'm like, I'm doing after-school specials about steroid abuse.

Speaker 1 You're passing on

Speaker 1 movies. That's pretty great.
But I will say this. You gave him a piece of advice that he has since paid for and given, and he let us in on it last year when he came to join us, which was

Speaker 1 apparently you said to him, if somebody asks you to do something down the road, imagine that the same, you know, we get it all the time.

Speaker 1 Hey, will you come and do this six months from now and come and show up at this thing?

Speaker 1 Imagine that you would have to do it tomorrow and then let that be your answer. If you don't want to do it, if you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no.

Speaker 1 I did give them that. I never thought that was particularly wise.
Banned it. I just thought, no, it's not.

Speaker 1 Because Matt was constantly saying yes and then be like, hey, man, can you call them and tell them I'm sick? Right. Yes.

Speaker 2 And that's bullshit.

Speaker 1 It's amazing.

Speaker 1 I've told minimum 50 people that piece of advice as if I came up with it my own. And they have people love it and have latched onto it, right, JB? We've talked about it all.

Speaker 2 I live it. I did it today.
I got asked to do something like three months from now that sounds kind of interesting. It'll be kind of fun.

Speaker 2 But then I thought, well, actually, if it was on the calendar for tomorrow, would I wish that it was canceled? If the answer is yes, pass.

Speaker 1 Pass that. You know, the thing about that that I can't completely co-sign, like my dirty little secret is, I might pass on everything.
Did you think I knew you took it?

Speaker 1 I almost never want to get off the calendar. Did you think about this show today? About passing on the show? Oh, I mean, I was a half hour late, wasn't I?

Speaker 2 They had to talk you out of it.

Speaker 2 So for the guy who likes to do nothing except sit on his couch every day, like I do, I find it interesting that you're actually able to get up and work as hard as I think anybody could possibly work when it comes to directing.

Speaker 2 Like that's a really, really all-encompassing job. So are you like me where it's like either all or nothing? I'm either working full or out?

Speaker 1 I think you and I have that in common. Yes.
And I think that I think that part of it is

Speaker 1 it's a little bit like it's more sort of social things. Like I'm I feel actually kind of shy.
I don't really want to go say hi to people.

Speaker 1 It feels a little bit like, oh, I'm going to, you know, something's going to happen. It's going to make me feel awkward.
But I

Speaker 1 love directing movies. And that movie in particular was the best experience I've had.

Speaker 1 Directing is hard and terrifying and at first I thought like, okay,

Speaker 1 even if I don't know anything about this, I know that I can at least work harder than everybody else. And so I thought, well, you put in 20 hours a day and that's what you do.

Speaker 1 And it made it excruciating and I got migraines. But like to the extent that the movies

Speaker 1 I was happy with, I thought, well, it must be because I worked 20 hours a day and did nothing else and thought of nothing else. And eventually realized that you don't quite have to do it that way.

Speaker 1 And that actually, this movie, which is my, the favorite movie I ever made, I love this movie.

Speaker 1 It benefits entirely from the writing and acting of Jason and Matt and Chris and Viola and Chris Pena and Matt Mayer, but it was so much fucking fun every day.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well,

Speaker 2 it's your fault. I mean,

Speaker 2 well, we don't have to do a whole thing on the kind of set you run and your talent and everything, but it was.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. We can actually.

Speaker 1 Do we have? We have 25.

Speaker 1 It was actually incredibly easy guys we shot this down the street um we shot it in in an in a business uh in a in an office building that um we're supposed to be in an office building so they basically just flipped the lights on now that's to take nothing away from bob richardson who is like the best dp in the history of movies um but uh it it was very fast i think after wasn't it after like seven days we were already three days ahead yeah we we went we got i wanted to go quickly and then you you and matt showed up and like having not directed Matt I didn't appreciate when you're a director right you have you have your plans you have the camera you're worrying about all these other things Yes, you're worried about the performances, but I thought okay well I won't have to worry about the performances and I'll just worry about all the other sort of bullshit I'm doing that I think is relevant when really the actors are the only thing the audience is paying attention to and like you know camera moves and that kind of thing and Jason and Matt are such pros that no, I mean it was like a dance to watch these two guys together.

Speaker 1 They've done it so much and so well. So that as soon as you start to feel the dolly is late, it's not going to be, all of a sudden Jason's looking in his pocket for something that might be behind him.

Speaker 1 And Matt looks behind him.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, he makes maybe a little more mournful choice on that line delivery because it's going to give him an extra half step to the turn to where he knows the steady cam's going to come around.

Speaker 1 The two of the guys,

Speaker 1 I started feeling like you're like making it for me.

Speaker 1 Stop hardly doing this. It's so fun.

Speaker 1 I love that. It really was amazing to see.
In fact, it got to the point where

Speaker 1 because Bob's crew and everyone was so good, they started anticipating and trying to do it. And then the guys who were really good and women who were doing it were like, it started to just speed up.

Speaker 1 And finally, I was like, Matt, Jason, don't do their job for him. You don't have to do everybody's job.
Yes, I know you're great at it, but just worry about the scene.

Speaker 1 Because I think they kind of started having fun with it. Like, because I had wonners and you'd have to see this.

Speaker 1 And Matt and Jason would know, like, you're probably going to want that magenta in the background. So I thought you'd like the window.
And I was like, you sound like it. Yeah, I did want the window.

Speaker 1 I didn't think I was that transparent.

Speaker 2 Did you did you do you can you remember having any sort of significant creative negotiation with Matt either in the writing process or in the directing process like giving him a note that he didn't want to take or writing a scene that he that he thought was kind of fine already or because didn't you have the writing process

Speaker 1 like Goodwill Hunting him back in college where you would won an Oscar.

Speaker 1 You would what you would you would uh talk about it or improv it and we record it we record it, yeah, on what were audio cassettes at the time kids those were small brown dope cassettes

Speaker 1 devices wait really you guys talked out the script yeah because we never thought of ourselves as formal writers we had a great uh teacher drama teacher in high school who taught us kind of sort of writing directing acting and didn't sort of put them in distinct silos so he was we would actually end up making plays which we later i later realized we were act write, direct them in effect, but we just thought we would improvise them and kind of distill them down and find a story.

Speaker 1 That's a great idea. So that's just just how we know how to do it.

Speaker 1 This person did you such a favor by doing that, by sort of putting it all together, right?

Speaker 1 There's no question without Jerry Specker or I or my brother or Matt Mayer or Max Casalo or Nicola Arsenal or all of them people that came out of the program who are who are working and who are terrific would,

Speaker 1 I think, be working. Because

Speaker 1 he taught us that and he taught us to like... to not take ourselves seriously, respect other people, but take the work that we were doing incredibly seriously.

Speaker 1 And that was was like that kind of, and there's that like great time of life when you have the older person who's the mentor who you look up to and who's who's doing the thing you want to do, who says, this is meaningful, but you really have to work hard at it.

Speaker 1 And so we did. Ben, is that that's it? So that was a teacher that you guys had at your public high school.

Speaker 1 I mean, our public high school just lucked out and got this guy who's a genius. That's

Speaker 1 amazing. And he was amazing for kids that didn't even end up wanting to be in theater.
And he was, I could do a whole thing on him. But the truth is,

Speaker 1 I think that's part of why I learned to be collaborative is that Matt and I never fought or argued about stuff.

Speaker 1 It was always that we, and we never got our feelings hurt because most of the ideas are bad. So I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea.
I'll have a bad idea, he'll have bad idea.

Speaker 1 I'll have an idea that's a little bit maybe better. And then Matt, that kind of keys something in Matt that's mediocre.
You know what I mean? And we sort of know we're building from there.

Speaker 1 And it's never about, and then it just becomes about like finding the best thing until both of us feel like it can't be improved.

Speaker 1 And we kind of go like, and if there is a kind of difference of opinion, it always ends up coming down to who cares more. Yeah.
I go, man, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I really think this is about the, and he's like, man, that moment. And I go, huh? All right.

Speaker 2 If you don't want to do it more than I want to do it, then we're not going to do it. You know, or if I want to do it more than you don't want to do it, we're going to do it.
Like, that's just common.

Speaker 2 Amanda and I try to live by that.

Speaker 1 There she is. Look, it's Jennifer.

Speaker 1 Special guest. There she is.
Hi. She can't hear us.
Hi. Hi.
Hi, Jennifer. Hi.
Hi. Hi, there.

Speaker 2 You were just doing very well. We were talking about you in very favorable terms, and so is your husband.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you. I was singing some of your songs back to you.

Speaker 1 Oh, sing. Please sing.
We're waiting for the night. Oh!

Speaker 3 Oh, my love. It's waiting for tonight.

Speaker 1 Waiting for tonight.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's the mic drop right there. But thank you.
Crushed it.

Speaker 1 We're lucky that Matt is brilliant.

Speaker 1 Thank you for saying hi.

Speaker 1 Yes, of course.

Speaker 1 Bye, Jenny.

Speaker 3 I'm looking forward to doing this with you.

Speaker 1 Oh, good. I love you.

Speaker 1 There's the part that will make the show.

Speaker 1 By the way, we just bypassed Jason. I didn't know this term, creative negotiation.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's

Speaker 1 a way to take the art out of it, man. You fucking find a way every fucking time.

Speaker 1 Just business, my friend. No, no, you don't have to negotiate.
Canal Street. How much for

Speaker 1 the batteries? Hey, Picasso, how much paint did you use? How many cubic liters of paint did you use? That's just a damage. Just take the fucking art out of it, babe, and fuck you.

Speaker 2 You see, Picasso never had to negotiate with anybody because it was just a single thing.

Speaker 2 What we're doing is like team stuff, right?

Speaker 1 So you've got to always negotiate. It is a lot of negotiation.
I mean, the lucky thing is when you don't have to negotiate, when you go, like, you know,

Speaker 1 you do something, you write it, you give it to him, and then Jason sits down and reads the scene. Like, he made me cry on this.

Speaker 1 And then you feel like a jerk because you feel like that guy who just like uh was it marty short or whatever who's to go get and then

Speaker 1 oh you know you just want to give one of like those

Speaker 1 what's the name of that character who played jiminy glick jiminy glick jimmy click i just want

Speaker 1 i have a question mr afflict damn

Speaker 2 stuff so so so to wrap up the matt stuff we'll we'll we'll leave him out of the rest of the interview um uh but the uh because we've we've had enough of matt right i mean will with you with your wordle quirtle and squirtle every morning.

Speaker 1 I want to get in on that. And Matt was like, oh, you're not ready.
I was betting that.

Speaker 1 Listen dropped out. He couldn't take the heat.

Speaker 2 No, it's not the heat. It's Will likes to tell you how much better his score could have been had he done X, Y, or Z.

Speaker 1 Anyway, that's really.

Speaker 2 Wait, wait, I wanted to close the map part of it.

Speaker 2 To tell for the, and you could, I know I would love to do a full podcast with you about artist equity and all the sort of studio economics that you're on button.

Speaker 1 He told me you didn't even want to do this one. We'll put our audience to sleep.

Speaker 2 So for those that have narcolepsy, do the quick version of generally what the concept is, what you guys are doing versus what exists

Speaker 2 and why that makes sense for you guys doing this since you're buddies and you want to kind of spread that kind of buddy feeling in the process.

Speaker 1 It's a tough elevator pitch and I over talk and go on too long. So it's a bad comment.
Sean will cut you off. Don't worry.

Speaker 1 Basically what it is is like over the years, as I'm sure you have, we started to kind of know like there's money that gets spent on things that don't end up making the movie any better.

Speaker 1 And the more money that you spend on what you do, the more obligation you have, the sort of more risk there is, and the less likely people are to do things that, you know, you consider more interesting and they want to be more

Speaker 1 conventional.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 I looked around and I just, as a director, started to really understand and value the people on the crew who made such a significant difference to the quality of what you're doing, both in terms of speed and in terms of the environment and the way in which you're able to perform.

Speaker 1 But I'm a big believer that the performance really ultimately is what draws people in and performance and the writing.

Speaker 1 And so we came up with this idea, never thinking anyone would ever actually fund us, to do a movie studio that was predicated on two things. Basically,

Speaker 1 allowing the crew and the artist being the writer, and I consider the crew the artists, which is the whole group, actors, directors, writers, so on,

Speaker 1 as well as cinematographers, sound mixers, everybody who collectively create the value in what we're doing to benefit from the upside of it in a really meaningful, significant way, but also to be responsible for it.

Speaker 1 In other words, listen, if it goes over, you're going to get less. If it comes in under, you're going to do better.
But all of us have to make it good. Otherwise, we're not going to get anything.

Speaker 1 And sort of treat people like grown-ups.

Speaker 1 Believe they can be accountable and also believe that, you know, when, because incentives have not historically been aligned between the people financing movies traditionally and and the people making them always right and so without going into too great a detail the idea was like let and let's separate this out from like what is the value of a movie well usually they'll use comps like well what's the budget and what did you make on your last movie and and especially now because there's no back end and no gross that's sort of it right right well i've always felt that was akin to to going into the Apple store and saying, I'll tell you how much I give you for the iPhone when you tell me how much you paid the guy that put it together.

Speaker 1 But that's, you know, you don't, that's not how it works, right? So, why does it have to work in the other way?

Speaker 1 See, so what by being agnostic as a financier and producer, this studio, and we had to then, you know, hire all the business affairs and legal and physical production and so on, so that we could be an entity significant enough to take on the entire creative responsibility of developing, producing, shooting, and delivering the movie.

Speaker 1 And in exchange, we got to say, look, this is what it's going to cost. It won't cost a dime more than that.
If it goes over, we pay for it.

Speaker 1 But you have to sort, we're going to be the ones who take on the burden, the role of saying, we're going to deliver something good. If it's terrible, it's our fault.

Speaker 1 But you're going to sort of put your trust in us to be able to do this. I'm sure whatever partners that we work with, they're excellent, brilliant people distributing and marketing movies.

Speaker 1 We don't do that.

Speaker 1 We don't want to do very many movies, but we want to just really make good movies with people we like. I love that.
And that's it. And we think people should be paid more for what they do.
Right.

Speaker 2 So you're basically taking on the financial risk by funding the production effectively. And then you're saying, we don't need you.

Speaker 2 You don't get the leverage financier by giving us the money to make it, assuming that we don't have it to make it. We actually do.
We're going to spend the money to make it.

Speaker 2 And we're basically coming to you and saying, we'd like to sell you this product. We're going to take care of the wholesale part.
Here's the retail price. Who wants to buy it?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah? Exactly.
It makes a lot of sense. That's what he just said.
He just said.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to see if my brain heard it right.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 1 So now, but then once you have finished the completion of a film, you now have to enter into a whole nother thing because you're going out there to distributors. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So are you working with all different distributors, all different changes? Obviously, businesses, like there's all sorts, it's changing a lot.

Speaker 1 You have streamers, you have, you know, the companies are theatrical and streaming and so on. And that's nobody's quite figured that out yet.

Speaker 1 My feeling is people are watching things and interested in them. And that's going to be ongoing.
How they figure out the economics of where they place value on it. You know,

Speaker 1 if we keep our focus to a few things and make them, make sure, try to make them really good.

Speaker 1 And also, I really was felt like, you know, interesting, original dramas, comedies, sort of ideas were starting to fall away from the theatrical world. Yes.

Speaker 1 It was kind of like, nah, that's not in movie theaters. And so, with this movie, and this movie's themes are kind of congruent with the ideas and the philosophy of this business.

Speaker 1 Like, what are the people worth and how should they be compensated? And isn't this the story itself, I think, is interesting, meaningful. And I want people to go see movies like this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I watching your trailer, I thought that very thing, the first time I saw it, I thought nobody gets to make movies like this anymore because we've lived in a

Speaker 1 world where, and everybody has benefited and participated to a certain degree in these sort of whatever you call them, these temples or these

Speaker 1 including me. Yeah, no, that's what I mean.
Everybody, all of us have benefited in certain ways.

Speaker 1 However, what happened was the result of that is that these other kinds of movies that you're talking about. Without special effects.

Speaker 1 Without special effects and that are story-driven under that are carrying hair. But

Speaker 1 Those things don't really, those kind of movies don't really exist as much anymore. Not in the theaters.
And this one's

Speaker 1 3,000. Well, part of the problem is fucking Ozark.
Yeah, yeah. Because it used to be that, you know, to put a movie, you were competing, you know, like Lawn Order or whatever, Magnum.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? You had an 11-inch black and white, and you could watch Simon and Simon, or you could go see

Speaker 1 Murder at 1600.

Speaker 1 Right now, you've got Succession and Ozark and really good fucking stuff where people at home go, you know what? I can pause. I can watch tomorrow.
That's made it very difficult.

Speaker 2 But it looks like they're approaching a good combo where

Speaker 2 you're getting a nice window of time

Speaker 2 in the brick and mortar theaters. You can see it on a big screen if you want.
Or you can wait, what is it?

Speaker 2 I think it's now basically six weeks before it'll be at your home as opposed to the old method was like three months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm really grateful to Amazon. The first time they're really going for the, we're going to do a theatrical traditional, you know, 3,500 screens out in the theaters, go see it.
Don't.

Speaker 1 You can't wait to see it for free. Like, not sort of upstaging it with a very soon, impending free version at home.
And it's Amazon, right? Amazon, yeah. And they really are taking a flyer on this.

Speaker 1 And I really, I mean, I hope it works honestly for, obviously, for the movie, but also so that we can do it again.

Speaker 1 And the reason why, going back to that model, the one thing that we do ask is that like the Hollywood model is kind of like I get paid in failure, right? Right. Like I still have the money.

Speaker 1 I mean, I spent it, but like I made money on GLE. I didn't have to give it back.
Right. You know what I mean? Like, everyone else went broke and I got a car.

Speaker 1 You know, so this is like, we're not going to get paid here. We're just going to spend what it costs to make the movie itself.
And we're all going to show up and invest our time and energy.

Speaker 1 And if it works and if it's successful and if it's financially successful, you'll get paid, whether you're the cinematographer, whether you're the writer of the director, much more otherwise than you would have.

Speaker 1 But the relationship between how you're compensated and how much it connects to audiences is really direct versus just like, hey, man, you know, I don't get out of bed for less than whatever.

Speaker 1 And that's what I kind of, you know, that, and such a nice thing to not have that vibe, you know, where the people who are doing it just want to be there.

Speaker 2 And I think this, this film's got a real good chance of

Speaker 2 hitting that sort of zeitgeist thing only, well, for two reasons. Number one, it's a story we all think we know, but we don't.
The whole story about how and why Nike

Speaker 2 got into business with Michael Jordan when Michael Jordan entered the NBA and when this whole start of this sneaker, this whole Air Jordan thing, like it's an incredible American business story that no one really knows how it went together.

Speaker 2 And this movie explains it. And you're releasing it during March Madness, which I think is first of all, it's great.

Speaker 1 I hear it's great from a few different people who've seen it. Two of them are in the movie,

Speaker 1 but they say it's great. Believe them.

Speaker 1 You can come by the house and watch it anytime, by the way.

Speaker 1 Jason, by you, because I told Jason two or three times, please ask him to come.

Speaker 1 I think you broke up that part of the test. I'm desperate to see it.
And I think Bradley saw it. Anyway, whatever it is, I'm desperate to see it.
I think it sounds amazing.

Speaker 1 Bradley won't let me see his movie until it's mixed. It's really good.
That movie's great. That movie's amazing.

Speaker 1 I read the script and I remember saying to him, like,

Speaker 1 this is the movie.

Speaker 2 Talking about Maestro. This is.

Speaker 1 Dude, Maestro. Really good.
Yeah. And the test, it's amazing.
It looks amazing. It's fucking amazing.
Talk about movies that nobody. It's the best script I've ever read.

Speaker 1 It's really, really good.

Speaker 1 But I was going to say, for your movie, what's great is because it is, like, as Jason says, it does tell this story and it's so great.

Speaker 1 And, you know, people like Jason, this is where they learn stuff is from the movies because they've never read a book before. They have no life experience.
Right. They have no life experience.
So,

Speaker 1 but I, if truly, everybody says, and even Jason says this, which you never say, you didn't even, you weren't talking about yourself about how much you love the movie. I can say that.

Speaker 1 He legitimately loves it. So it's, I'm very excited to see it.
Now, let's talk about Batman. Let's talk about the real thing that everybody's going to be.
Can I

Speaker 1 get out of business? No, because the only time

Speaker 1 we really hung out was when we did that thing with Kimmel about the Batman, and then I stuck my head in as Lego Batman, and you guys all laughed at me.

Speaker 2 They do have two Batmans on the podcast, Sean.

Speaker 1 I know. That's kind of cool.
It's very cool. One real and one cartoon.
But I saw the trailer for the Flash, and everybody was like freaking out when you came on the screen. You know what?

Speaker 1 That movie's good. I hear it's a nice movie's

Speaker 1 really good. I hear that movie.
They made it.

Speaker 1 I love that. And it's my best shit.
I've done as I finally figured out how to play the guy. Oh, really? I got it.
For real? I was like, hold on. Am I? Is that I quit? I know I quit.

Speaker 1 And I know I came back to you. But I got it now.
It's like, you know, you do the audition and you're on your way home and you're like, oh no. Wait, what was the moment? What?

Speaker 2 Why did the penny drop?

Speaker 1 What happened? I mean, I don't want to give the spoiler, but it was a scene where

Speaker 1 I get caught. I get saved by Wonder Woman during a conflagration with some bad guys.

Speaker 1 And she saves me by,

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm sure I'm like the spoiler, you know, DC assassins, or excuse me. She saves me with some of that.
She saves me with the lasso of truth.

Speaker 1 And so what happens is that Batman

Speaker 1 divulges, you know, some of his real feelings

Speaker 1 about

Speaker 1 his life and his work.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 it helped you see the character, and now you want another chance to play it.

Speaker 1 And I was like, wait a minute, I got it.

Speaker 1 Am I still, wait, can I, guys?

Speaker 1 Are we still rolling? Can we write another scene?

Speaker 1 I fucking love it. By the way, Ben, one time I remember years ago, and I asked him about it, I remember Alec Baldwin

Speaker 1 saying in an interview that he was driving home from Knott's Landing, when he was on Knott's Landing. Oh, yeah.
And like on a Friday night and just going like, oh, fuck, that's how you do this scene.

Speaker 1 And he's like, from that moment on, he made a deal with himself, that he would never leave it, that he would always figure out the scene while he was there.

Speaker 1 And it always stuck with me, especially because it was Knott's Landing. It's so funny.
Alex told me a similar story, but totally different. Is that true?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he loves this metaphor. He's like, you know why I'm a good actor, but not a great actor.
And I was like, uh, no, Alec, and I don't want to answer that.

Speaker 1 It was late because I was playing Skowalski, probably.

Speaker 1 And I, uh...

Speaker 1 It was the door. He was supposed to leave the screen door, and I guess in some...

Speaker 1 And the screen door wouldn't open. And he was exiting.
It wouldn't open. I shook it once.
And I shook it twice. And it wouldn't open.
And so I stepped around it. And right then.

Speaker 1 right then I realized what would Brando do? He would have kicked it down. He would have kicked it down.
And I was like,

Speaker 1 so, oh, kick it down.

Speaker 1 But he's very focused on that like moment after thing. Dude, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 I want to ask you about, you won two Academy Awards, Goodwill Hunting, and Argo. Thank you.
I was wondering if we were going to get to that four minutes into it. I've been the Jason Bateman.

Speaker 1 Your publicist is like all over me about that. I was like, okay, got it.

Speaker 1 Texting, texting, texting. Yeah, no, but I want to talk to you about Argo because he wrote me one of the funniest emails, which I want to read right now.

Speaker 1 And we can cut it if you want, but it's really funny. Anyway, Victor Garber, who's a friend of ours, right?

Speaker 1 He was staying in my guest house here while you were filming Argo, which is three houses down.

Speaker 1 But go ahead. What's that? He said you were in his guest house.
Yeah, sure. Whatever.
We swap.

Speaker 1 We share, like, you share a bank account. We share a guest house.
So

Speaker 1 I want to still share a bank account with Matt. All of a sudden, the deal's over after born.

Speaker 1 But you shot Argo three houses down from me and I would walk over in my pajamas and sit down and watch you direct. And it was super, super fun.
And then

Speaker 1 you won the Oscar and I was there at the Oscars and I wrote an email to you and I said, I'm so proud of you. I'm so thrilled for you.

Speaker 1 And then all the other sentences had question marks. I said, I still haven't seen it.
I probably won't get to it. I'll probably have to Netflix it.

Speaker 1 And someone will have to read the subtitles to me, but I'm sure I'll love it like everyone in Iran says they do. And then I said, I loved your speech, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And you wrote back, I saw your little sweet face when I was standing up there accepting my Oscar.

Speaker 1 In the middle of the greatest triumph of my professional life, I thought, I have got to tell Sean to go tanning.

Speaker 1 I fucking, so when I was doing all this research for you today, like all this stuff, I found that old, I was like, I can look at old emails. I laughed out loud.
And then you wrote back.

Speaker 1 You haven't taken me up on it. Still disgusting.

Speaker 2 Still pasty

Speaker 1 no not at all I'm translucent

Speaker 1 Benjamin this has been amazing way too much

Speaker 1 is it over they told me they told me it's two hours so oh only an hour for me it's still two hours you don't usually do it two hours just

Speaker 1 I am a big fan I gotta tell you guys I love the Mark Marin show you are wonderful oh I'm sorry

Speaker 1 no the truth is you guys are you guys are uh you do a great job you manage to be very interesting to listen to and yet very little of substance is ever said.

Speaker 2 We distract you with all the constant noise.

Speaker 1 That's all I know.

Speaker 1 It feels like kind of wonderful. I enjoy it.
It's an honor and a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 Honest to God, you are fucking amazing in the movie.

Speaker 1 From the first time I met you on the day of Smoking Aces, when I walked into that scene and you did the monologue about congenital alcoholism and herpes in a small penis, I have never, you cannot, if you go back and watch that movie, this is not a shot of me working on that.

Speaker 1 That's not from the movie, dude. He was just telling somebody.
Yeah, Yeah, we were just hanging out. And remember, they put it in the movie.

Speaker 1 It was, I was like, this guy is a genius, a genius.

Speaker 1 And I have never forgotten it.

Speaker 2 And then Joe Carnahan's fault. You know, he wrote a great scene and directed a great movie.

Speaker 1 No, no, your fault. Genius.

Speaker 1 Love Joe. Great in that, great in extract.
I have loved it.

Speaker 1 We had fun on X.

Speaker 1 I think you're a genius. Yeah, you are.
I do. I think all the.
My mother thinks that word's overused. Yeah, that is.
Usually when she's pretty, she's pretty hears it a lot about her sons.

Speaker 1 But we're really happy.

Speaker 1 I will say this. I'm so happy that you're directing movies and you're making movies like this and that you're just continuing to do fucking great stuff and keep a fan.

Speaker 1 I love it. This is all I want to do.

Speaker 2 You do want to direct more than act, right? You love it.

Speaker 1 You know, I started really loving acting finally for real when I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I used to direct movies.
I'm done with this. I don't care.
It's just life directing.

Speaker 1 And then I was kind of like, well, I'm already here. And I can, you know.

Speaker 1 Do them both, right?

Speaker 2 Act in the movies that you direct.

Speaker 1 And then I just let go. And I remember Sidney Pollack

Speaker 1 once saying, when we did, he was a director and an actor. We did a movie called Changing Lanes 20, some years ago.
And he said to me, you know why I'm a good actor? I was like, no, Sidney,

Speaker 1 because I don't give a shit.

Speaker 1 I was like, I didn't understand at the time, but I know what he's getting at now, which is that so much of it just has to do with letting go and being relaxed and trying things and not sweating what people are going to think.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you know, trying the take that at the time Jason and Matt make fun of you for, but later on works in the movie. We know what we're talking about.
Wait, really?

Speaker 1 Wait, what front was that?

Speaker 1 It was the take where

Speaker 1 I really wanted to play my part and I interrupted Matt and made him wait a second. And you were like, maybe too big.
Maybe that's too.

Speaker 1 I said that? Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 Matt was right out in front of you. He was like, you can't do that.
Hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1 No, I'm not. Oh, wait a second.

Speaker 2 Oh, wait, is this the one with the blaster glasses

Speaker 2 and the jogging outfit?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, you were all unequivocal about that. And that didn't make, that was too big.

Speaker 2 Dude, it's on the poster. What do you mean it didn't make the movie? You're on the poster in your phaser glasses and your jumpsuit.

Speaker 1 That is historically accurate. I get it.

Speaker 1 No one's going to know that, though. They're just going to be like, oh.
I'm trying to promote it.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm here. The whole point was to get to the fact that that is not made up.
That is the clothes that were worn.

Speaker 2 And his purple, his purple Porsche and his.

Speaker 1 He had a purple Porsche that said Nike Man.

Speaker 2 This is Phil Knight, listener,

Speaker 2 the guy who created Nike.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to see it. It's fun.
And I do, once I started doing it and doing people, I really loved, and it's true.

Speaker 1 I love directing in a different way, but acting has become really fun. Tenderbar was really fun.
Last Duel was really fun. The Way Back was really fun.

Speaker 1 Weirdly, for a movie about a person whose child dies and is alcoholic.

Speaker 1 It was like, it became joyful because I started developing my own criterion and stopped kind of making it about, like, you know, who is.

Speaker 2 As Will says, it's a sexy indifference.

Speaker 1 Right, Will? Yeah. I don't say that.
No. Come on.
I'm going with overweight indifference.

Speaker 2 Indifference is attractive.

Speaker 1 Well, whatever you're doing, please keep doing it, man. Just such a fan.
You're so great at what you do, and you always have been. And just a few times.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to hold you guys to it since you're all in the next one for free. Thank you.
Oh, my God. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 The model. We'll do it for free.
We'll just do it for the art.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 You're amazing for doing this.

Speaker 1 Too handsome for a film.

Speaker 1 Will you let me into the fucking octurtle battle or do I, my JVs?

Speaker 1 Tell Matt. Here it is.
Yeah, give my agent your number. Yeah, no, I have one.
Okay, great.

Speaker 2 Does Matt own the invites?

Speaker 1 He's the commissioner. So

Speaker 1 did he really keep you out?

Speaker 1 Yeah, totally locked me out.

Speaker 1 Well, not even locked me out. He was like, maybe, maybe keep working.
You know what I mean? Like that means out of luck. I got the crossword.
He finally, I tell him this. This is inside.

Speaker 1 He finally won today for the first time in like six weeks, and he was ecstatic. Really? Yeah.
Yeah. He was having a tough time.

Speaker 1 But like I said, once I found out that he's in the low 50s, now I maybe I'm wondering if there is kind of an intramural league that I can be. Because that's.

Speaker 2 I have a feeling Ben's going to wax all you guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it won't take you long. Believe me, you're a sharp guy.
It will not take you long to fucking make us all look like fools. I'm starting to lose it.

Speaker 1 You are y'all young.

Speaker 1 Ginko.

Speaker 1 Ginko. Thanks, guys.
I have a question about Batman. Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. Feel free.
Go ahead, Carlin.

Speaker 2 Ben, we love you. Thank you for doing that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love you, pal. Very good.
Seriously, guys. Jason has my number, and you guys, honestly, God, like, the movie is here, sitting here

Speaker 1 on the projector. And if you ever want to come at any point, even if I'm not here, it's like, set it up, ring the bell, come watch the movie.

Speaker 1 You probably don't give a shit, and you're going to end up, you know, watching. No, no, they do.

Speaker 2 And you live about three blocks from Will.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. So someone has no excuse.
Oh, no, no, we'll walk over. By the way,

Speaker 1 we will cut this, but I love the new house. Yeah? Thank you.
Well, the rental is not too fucking shabby.

Speaker 2 Is that the one you're talking about, Sean?

Speaker 1 No, the one that they just purchased. Sean is keeping up with some of our celebrity journalists.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 I have a real estate agent who knows it. Oh,

Speaker 1 but yeah, and I rented it.

Speaker 1 I saw it under construction, and I was like, this is amazing. So I'd love to see it when it's done.

Speaker 1 You are the first to be invited.

Speaker 1 We heard it. We got it recorded.

Speaker 1 Thank you, bud. Benjamin, we love you.
Enjoy the rest of the day. I love you all.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you, Ben.

Speaker 2 Bye, bud. Bye.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Well, that guy.

Speaker 1 Fucking Wattage. Sean.

Speaker 1 So when we were talking about it. Big star Wattage.
I mean, we had Damon on tour, and that was fine. Matt was fine.
But then we have Ben, Affleck,

Speaker 1 just coming here with a fucking Wattage. And you're like, well, that's that's the

Speaker 1 scar. That's through the scar.
Yeah, it threw outer space. Yeah.
Yeah. It threw outer space.

Speaker 1 Remember a fucking Matt showed up in like a fucking hoodie and he fucking

Speaker 2 just get through the interview.

Speaker 1 Just get through the thing. And then Ben shows up and he's handsome and he's talented and he's smart as

Speaker 1 he's shoulder. He's prepared.
Yeah. His hair is gorgeous.
Yeah. Hang on a second.
Jason, Jason Christ. Jason, let me see your hands real quick.
I want to see your hands while you're talking.

Speaker 1 It's really dark where you are.

Speaker 1 No, all jokes aside, wow,

Speaker 1 that was awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and when I was doing like the research, you know, learning about him and stuff and about his past and whatever, I was like, and then you go through his credits, you're just like, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You get like, wow, bang, bang, bang, hit after hit after hit after hit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's been so relevant and talented and successful for so long. And I feel like he's only halfway done.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think, I don't know if this is true.
Does anybody know? Didn't he, hasn't he played Batman more than any other actor? I'll bet. I think that that might be, I think you might be right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think so. He's played it five times, I think.
Really? It's just,

Speaker 2 I'm so happy for him. And this movie, he just, he crushes it.
And Matt and him did a great job writing a lot of stuff, too.

Speaker 1 He's such a natural as a director. I mean, Jason, it's kind of what you talk about.

Speaker 1 When you spend all that time, you know, doing, and you've got a head on your shoulders and you spend all that time on set and in that environment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you've got to absorb something.

Speaker 1 You absorb something and you can kind of apply it. And you have done it and he has done it.
And he's made made so many great films. You know, as you said,

Speaker 2 Sean. Sean.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, I know. But what was the one about Iran, the hostages?

Speaker 1 Argo. Argo.
So Argo. Argo.

Speaker 1 The Town is amazing as well. That's another great film that he directed.
Yeah, I was like, The Town. I love that movie.
Really, really good. Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 I didn't even get a chance to talk to him about The Town. That was so good.
I know. Well, because you were asking, you know, you had too many questions about a left field.

Speaker 2 He just texted me. I hate Sean.

Speaker 2 Well, he spelt it S-H-A-W-N, but the hate is spelt correct.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 2 No, that's not true.

Speaker 2 No, he's he's he's he's the guy. My God, what an interesting.
I'd like to read his book. I want to read his book.
I want to read Downey's book.

Speaker 1 Just a book. Any book.
I guess, right? Would be amazing.

Speaker 2 It's top to bottom, left to right.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 as long as the book has a

Speaker 2 turn. The pages are bound.

Speaker 1 That works. Oh no, he doesn't even know how it works.
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