"Tracee Ellis Ross"

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to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Hey, fellas.
Hi, man. You guys look rested.
Yeah. I'm feeling pretty good.
You having nice dreams last night? I'm feeling a little sick. Huh.
Talking to Will mostly. Sorry.
Yeah, he looks great. Yeah.
Will, you must have had some nice dreams, huh? I've had some really sweet dreams. You remember them? You got a little log book next to your bed there? Yeah, I like to wake up and...
Jot them down. And I just sort of jot them down in a lot of them.
And then I wake up and it's usually like math equations. Oh.
Yeah.

You figure a lot of stuff out while you're sleeping. Yeah, yeah.

I've just figured a lot of stuff out.

You're crunching numbers.

Oh, here.

Like this one, if I do, I wrote this one.

Y and you move the equals to the power.

Basically, translation is welcome to SmartLess.

Oh, great.

Huh. Smart

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Smart Thank you. Ricky's got the Is that Robbie? It's Ricky Hey Robbie Ricky, his name's Ricky Look at the size of this cone around his head That looks like an expensive cone Usually you just see just a regular plastic one that's kind of cloudy and you've got a fabric cone Look at the look on his face I know He.
He had a cyst, like a big bump,

like a big ball on his butt.

Like a...

Oh, here we go.

I can hear Will's cogs turning,

writing something hurtful.

No.

Why would I...

He had a cyst on his bottom,

and they gouged it out,

and so he has to wear this big cone. Speaking of balls on your bum, Jay, how's your weekend been? So they cut, so they removed the balls from his bottom.
Yeah, like it was a big cyst on his tail. Uh-huh.
Gouged it out. And he was still able to get around there and chew it, lick it, kind of agitate it.
It was crazy, yeah. Any chance he got, he would he got he would so they put the cone on how long's the cone been on the dog about a month he's got another month to go wait a minute yeah it was pretty intense i've never heard of a cone being on a dog longer than like a few days look at this look at this tail oh you can't see it i can see it oh yeah they shamed it i think uh you might want to look look into a different vet, someone that might charge you a little bit more, but...
Do it right? Yeah, two months with a cone. Maybe they can make a cone for you that stops you from eating Chinese food.
You know what I mean? What would that look like? There's not a big enough one out there. No, he had a cone that was too small, so we had to sleep in shifts, Scotty and I, until we found the right size, because he's like 100 pounds.
I think your vet is really causing you a lot more problems than fixes. But we'd start watching The Crown, so we'd watch an episode and then kind of fall asleep, but we'd poke up and...
Anyway, who cares? I don't. About...
You didn't even need to speak. You could just see it on your face.
Don't worry. So The Crown would be your visual ambient.
That was, yeah, because for like a month, we had to sleep and shift, so we'd each catch an episode and then catch the other person up on what that episode is. Well, I sure hope your guest isn't somebody starring on The Crown.
This is my guest. It's his guest.
Oh, it's your, well, I hope your guest, clearly your guest is not a cast member from The Crown. No, but I love The Crown.
The Crown's really good. Why do you use it to fall asleep with, then? No, I don't use it to fall asleep.
We asleep. That's what we do in the interim of swapping out.
That's what they do to stay awake. Yeah.
Huh. Yeah.
The crown. Yeah, it was so good.
It's very good. By the way, I'm so late to the party.
I know it's like 10 seasons. I'm even later.
Oh, I love it. I just saw the first three episodes of White Lotus finally.
Oh, wasn wasn't it? Of the first season? The first season, yeah.

Oh, wow.

I get it.

I'm into it.

I've never seen it.

I'm on it.

Yeah?

Come on in, Will.

Water's great.

Yeah, it's really, really good.

I'm such a contrarian, though, that I'm like, no.

Everybody else has seen it.

Really?

Yeah.

What'd you guys do on our little break in between shows?

I made some...

I wrote reviews for White Lotus.

I just went and wrote scathing reviews, even though I'd never seen it. And I love Mike White.
Yeah. Love that Mike White.
Now, what'd you do, JB, on your little break ski? I made some oatmeal for my colon. And my daughter asked me a bunch of questions about why I like it and why.
And I told her, and then she tasted it. She said, huh.
I said, would you like me to make you a bowl? She goes, yes, a small one, please. I made her a bowl of oatmeal.
And she walked me through all of her studies that she's going through for chemistry right now. She's got a chemistry final coming up.
And I never took chemistry in school. No way.
Yeah, I don't know how or why. But that looks difficult.
Yeah. Well, in their defense, in your school's defense, it might be dangerous to do chemistry on that bus on Wilshire.
Buns and burners and beakers. You know what I mean? I told you that story about my...
Yeah. You sure did.
You don't remember anything, do you? Nope. No.
You went to school on a bus. On a bus.
Well, just for one year. That was heartlight.
But it was one continuous year. It never stopped moving, the bus.
It was just one. Well, no, no.
Those were just on the city days. The city days were on the bus, right, where we go in and for the listener that hasn't heard this before, we drive the base of the school was out at this dude's house in Calabasas.
Sounds safe. The deep West Valley.
Not accredited, shocker, this school. Turns out.
We'd get on a converted full-size large yellow school bus where the back half of it was converted into desks. Front half was still.
Was your driver Charles Manson or- He did smell of weed and patchouli,

but I didn't get his name.

And then, so we would have these long drives

into the city as we go to these cultural places

like museums and whatnot.

And the hippie that started the school

thought it might be productive to do schoolwork in traffic

while we're on our way to these museums.

That's why he converted the bus. While we're on the Venture Freeway for an hour and a half, we do schoolwork.
traffic while we're on our way to these museums. That's why he converted the bus.

While we're on the Ventura freeway

for an hour and a half,

we do school work.

And then the country days,

the odd days in the week,

we'd be out at the house there

in Calabas.

What if Will and I left our little,

we're still telling the story.

No, but there's a teepee.

And then on the weekends,

what would you guys do on the weekends?

Was school,

were country days at his house, was it a lot of raking his yard and vacuuming his living room? You're not far off. We would start each day in the teepee and then we'd go into his house and you could take history, math, or massage.
That's a true story. That's not true.
Jason, this is creepy. And it was the, there were 20 kids all from like fourth grade to senior in high school.
Well, who wouldn't take the massage, by the way? I mean, like you get out of class. The massage class was packed.
Oh, my God. It's so creepy.
All right. That's why I'm so smart, you guys.
Have you ever been wondering why? I'm going to get right to our guest who has been so patiently waiting. She's a very special girl.
Really? Yeah. Besides her incredible talent, this woman is often praised for her impeccable style and fashion.
She'd said that probably from an early age when she'd borrow her mom's clothing once she saw her car pull out of the driveway in the morning. She'd borrow the clothes.
Ditto. She's one of the co-founders of the Time's Up movement, which she helped kick off at the 2018 Golden Globes.
The year after, she won for Best Actress in Black-ish. You guys, it's Tracee Ellis Ross.
Tracee Ellis Ross. Look at her go.
Look at her go. Now, you know, hello there.
Hi. Listener, she's just wearing a simple blue sweatshirt.
Very stylish. Maybe, or sweater.
And so you're known for your styles, but yet you're keeping it very safe. I noticed that with hairdressers that are really good at hairdressers, they're all, they have shaved heads.
Well, that's interesting. That's interesting.
I will say I worked, I used to work in fashion. I worked, I was a, hi, all of you.
Hi. Hi.
We like to jump right in. Hello.
And I did notice back in the day that fashion editors would wear like sort of a blank canvas. Right.
They were all black. Just a little uniform.
Yeah. It was like, yeah, kind of like a uniform.
Something super safe. Well, I feel like if you work in fashion, if you do fashion, if you love fashion, but no, I love the extravagance of it, the glamour.
Yeah, I think I said this before on the show, but not to you, Tracy. But you're so right because I went to this years and years and years ago.
I went to Milan to watch this Armani show. And afterwards, there was like this party.

It must have been like going to space for you.

Yeah, absolutely.

I was like, I have to leave the house.

And I went to the, then he had like this after party at his house.

And I asked one of the guys who worked there, it was like a waiter or something.

I'm like, can I go look at his closet?

Because I wanted to see what he had.

It was all the same, wasn't it?

All the same outfit.

All the same outfit.

Exactly the same.

Yes.

Really?

30 of the same outfit.

What was the outfit? Black suit. No, well, no, it was a navy t-shirt and jeans.
Oh. Interesting.
Really? Just a thousand pairs of jeans? There's a lot of freedom in that. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like a uniform.
Not for me. Serial killers do that too, I think.
Yes. That's one of the telltale signs of a serial killer.
I think Jason's teacher wore that. The difference with a serial killer, Will, is that they don't have multiple pairs.
It's just one. Yeah, just the one.
You're right. Nothing that shows blood too well, I think.
You're right. And you just use the same one.
But you know what I was talking about? The guy who's got the, you go to his closet and everything's the exact same. And then they do end up committing, I'm not suggesting Armani did, but if that person they said, turns out they were a serial killer, we'd say, was there ever any inkling that he would, yes, yes.
There was always an inkling. We never knew.
We never knew. We always knew.
Wait, Trace, so first of all, Hi, Sean. Do you guys know each other? Ish.
Ish, yeah. No, ish.
Plug in the show already. They know each other.
They know each other? Ish. Ish, yeah.
Get it?

Black ish.

No ish.

Plug in the show already.

Know each other ish should be a spin-off.

No, there's like a connection.

There's a spiritual connection.

I live for this girl.

I love her.

I think she's amazing.

How did you meet you two?

On the Jimmy Kimmel show, but I think we met before that too.

We met before that.

I was a guest host, and I interviewed you on Jimmy Kimmel.

Yep.

All right, so listen.

So you were born in L.A. By the way, like Jason was.
I was born in L.A. I did not go to school on a bus.
Did not go to school on a bus. Yeah, I was going to get into that.
That's what I was going to say. Yeah.
There was no massage class. No.
So I was born here in 1972. Actually went to the center way back then, Center for Early Education, before it was this thing that it is now.
Lived here until my mom was going to New York to do the whiz. Wow.
And then was in New York. Let's make sure the listener knows who mommy was.
Barbra Streisand. Wow.
Interesting. Diane Ross.
Right now, Sean's sister is like, fucking what? What? Barbara Streisand. Barbara Streisand's daughter's Tracy.
My mom is Diane Ross. My dad is Bob Ellis Silberstein.
Yeah. And was in New York, went to school there until seventh grade, then moved to Paris because my mom was supposed to do a movie there.
She also met her husband, that, anyway, whatever. And lived in Paris and went to the American school in Paris for a little while and then moved to Switzerland and went to Le Rosé and then moved back to the States.
Oui, je ne suis pas français. Oui, je ne suis pas français.
And then I, well, you're Canadian, yeah? Yeah, but I don't speak, okay, yes. Okay.
You speak French. You speak fluent French.
Well, I don't know about that. Anyway, sorry I interrupted you.
By the way, it should be pointed out that Tracy, when she goes, and then my mom, just whatever, her whatevers are more interesting than the bulk of my story. Yes, but so let me just, that's my kind of question is, is like, because in Chicago, I didn't grow up around, like, you know, in this town, which you're surrounded by fame and all that stuff.

So I, you know, I didn't have a sense of other.

Well, our senses of other is different, right?

For opposite reasons.

So what was that like as a kid, I wonder?

Well, it's all you know.

So it's all I knew.

The nice thing was that when I went to school,

first of all, my mom is a mom before anything else.

So I didn't have the sort of fantasy life of what people imagine it would be or what you see in reality shows, for example. That is not, that was not my childhood.
Right. And yes, I had incredible opportunity to go to school in Switzerland.
I went to the best schools and, you know, Marvin Gaye called our home and all, and Andy Warhol painted me and all these things that are very extraordinary. I'm looking at, you know, so those things are extraordinary.
But because my mom was such a mom, she's in your face right now. It's amazing.
I just think it's so great. It's amazing.
So because of all that, but there was a sense of normalcy to my life and I didn't know there was something different. And then when I went to Dalton in New York, in New York, yeah.
The other kids that I was going to school with were Ralph Lauren's kids, Robert Redford's kids. So that was taken off the table for us.
So it wasn't a thing. Right, right, right, right.
And only as I've gotten, you know, as I became an adult and realized the magnitude of the fact that my mother's an international treasure, as they say. You know, just a goddess of things.
Well, I mean, you joke about it, but she's an icon. I'm not joking.
No, I know, but you're not. But you have to couch it in that.
I get it. But I have to say, you've achieved the impossible, and you're an icon.
Like, to me, you know, the best example I can think of, when you watch Janet Jackson, I don't think of Michael Jackson. When you watch Michael Jackson, I don't think of Janet Jackson.
When you watch Diana Ross, I think of her. I think of Tracee Ellis Ross as two completely different people.
And you're surprised to know that, oh, Diana Ross, oh, that's the Ross. Wow.
Yeah, it's actually funny. And then when people, you know, I do look a lot like my mom.
And then I also look a lot like my dad. But people are surprised and it's fun because they're like, you didn't tell me.
I'm like, why was I supposed to tell you that? That would not be. And we will be right back.
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Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about all the time is Scotty.
And of course my two besties, Will and Jason, whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it. And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist and I've been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great.
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All right, back to the show. Wait, so tell me about when you were a kid because I heard this story once, but it was a while ago, that you grew up in a family of five kids or five people? So we're five, my mom has five kids, but we were

three girls with my mom. And then 15 and 16 years later, my brothers were born.
And tell me about

getting the wiggles out or something. Oh yeah.
It's Rhonda, Tracy, Chudney, Ross, and Evan,

just to get through the siblings. And my mom is one of six.
So it's a big family. Like even just

the immediate family is like 22. Everybody, all my siblings have husbands or wives and multiple

I don't know. of six.
So it's a big family. Like even just the immediate family is like 22.
Everybody, all my siblings have husbands or wives and multiple children. I'm the lone single lady who, you know, just gets to come and go.
What do you think is wrong with you? Sorry. Jesus.
Fuck, sorry. Sometimes I think there is, did you, there's a long list.
I'm so sorry that I just said it like that. What I'm.
Our drunk. What you meant was.
What you meant was. What I meant was, how's it going? So far, so good.
I mean, I just turned 50, and I think I just started working some of this shit out. Oh, believe me, I'm 52, and I am fucking, I am not even close to halfway working it out.
At 12 years old, I said to my mom, I think I need a therapist. At 12.
I wish I'd known. I wish I'd known there was such a thing as therapy at that age.
I don't know how I knew. Well, you grew up in L.A., New York.
I think that that's kind of stuff. I didn't have sushi until I was 22.
Yeah. I love that that's the marker.
I didn't know what... I couldn't even think of a fish.
Yeah. Nigiri.
Okay, wait, you asked about the wiggles. Wiggles, yeah.
So I was a very hyper child and very silly. And I also really loved...
My sister Rhonda is very cerebral and I'm very physical. And so it was really frustrating for my sister, which I thought was very funny.
And so I was just very energetic and I always, you know, and so my grandmother said it was the 12-year-old giggles, the eight-year-old giggles, the nine-year-old giggles. It just kept going.
It never stopped. And so my mother, in order to keep the peace at dinner, would say, would you like to go outside and get your wiggles out? And I would say, yes, I would.
And so I would go outside the glass sliding door at the dinner table. Like a dog has Zoomies.
And I would bounce around out there, like trying to get my sister to laugh, like trying to do stuff. And then I would come back in and it would make me even more hyper.
And my mom would say, and are they out? And I would be like, I don't know. And then, nope, I think there's a few more.
And I would come back out and do it again and come back. Like a doggy has zoomies.
God bless my siblings. It was actually funny.
There was a period when one of my brothers was going through a phase and I was like, Rhonda, I'm just so worried. And she goes, worried about what? I'm like, how he's going to turn out.
She goes, what? I said, well, I mean, you know, like with all this going on. And she goes, uh, you figured it out and you were ten times worse.
Wow. Really? She was like, yeah, nightmare.
Oh my there, do you remember the moment, if there was a moment where you wanted to pursue something in the public and then you thought, well, am I going to be able to live up to what I'm, I always worry about that with children. Yes.
It's a whole thing. Do you want to drop the hammer on her? Yeah, go ahead, Tracy.
Well, it would have been good for you. Did you just he drop the hammer? Because what was yours? Well, my question is, mine are lighter.
Mine are more like growing up in L.A., did you ever, while you were driving, did you ever see like a school bus with kids giving each other massages go back? That was me. Wait, can I tell you? I want to get to your question, but can I tell you? Because I feel like I told you this, like, waiting for our cars at an award show.
But I'm going to tell you again while other people get here because it's so good. So, Silver Spoons.
Yes. Huge fan.
Okay. Very big.
I love a Silver Spoons. Very big during our age group.
Yeah. And, you know, everybody loved Ricky.
They loved Ricky Schroeder. I was like, no, I'm the the Jason girl you were you were the one that was teen beat like that I would pull out and put on my wall yeah and then you had to flip through a few pages before you got to me I found it and so and then now for some reason whenever I'm asked like childhood crush I can never get it right and I say Justin yeah because I combine you with your sister.
Yeah, because she was pretty. Jay, do you ever get that? Do you ever get that? Three times a week.
Do you get that all the time? Really? Oh, yeah. At least.
Oh, I thought that was unique. No, no, I get Justin all the time.
I will say he's really good about it. I've been with him many times with people and they'll go like, isn't that right, Justin? You'll go, yep.
He doesn't even convince you anymore. It's exhausting.
But yes, all these other people were so dumb. I mean, look.
Oh, that wasn't nice. I'd have those same Teen Beat magazines looking at Jason too.
Yeah. You were like a teen heartthrob.
Hey, Sean, why don't you walk us through that? Unbelievable. Unbelievable, Will.
Beautiful, Will. Unbelievable.
I know. I'm sorry, I'm terrible today.
I want to get back to your question, though. Oh, what's wrong with you? Yeah, so, I mean, good for you that you didn't, like, let that be a barrier and, like, no, screw it.
I don't want to have it fail or not be able to live up to her, you know.

That still haunts me. There's a misconception that you could have

been anything you wanted just because of where you came from, but that's

not how it felt to you. Well, a couple things.

If you think back to when we were younger,

are we all in the same age range?

Yes. Yes.

The youngest. No, I'm 52.

You are the youngest, actually. Of us three.

Of the three of us, but Tracy today...

Will, you play the youngest, don't you? What's the oldest you can play, Will?

What do you think the oldest is you can play? I can stretch to 44, probably. Yeah.
True. Yeah.
You know what I mean? When you do that, I would say I would give it a 60. Would my eyes get like this? Yeah, she was.
I love that. Smoke in the room.
We call that smoke in the room. Smoke in the trees.
Really tightening things up there. Yeah.
Is that like a guy thing? No, we'd go along red carpets and we'd see other actors doing it.

We'd be like,

oh, look, it's real smoky over there.

Some guy would be getting his phone

to be like this.

Hey, what's going on?

I've had to learn how to

not be an overpeaker on the carpet.

Yeah, where you look over your shoulder.

If you can see your tonsils,

it's like a problem.

Like, I'm like...

Oh, it's that.

A big open mount?

Yeah, like turn it down to a two.

Like, I'm on like 11 on a carpet.

Yeah, me too.

You know, when I was growing up,

And I'm going to go on a carpet. Me too.
You know, when I was growing up and when we were younger, being a child of was not what it is now. And a lot of people would change their parents' last name.
And I think from a really young age, I was very aware of the fact that people were paying attention to me because I was an extension of someone they loved as opposed to because of me. And because of that, I felt very compelled to figure out who I was, what I wanted, who I wanted to be.
And that was my driving force. It was challenging, you know, I mean, like growing, not challenging, that's the wrong word, but people, I used to have the metaphor that people would unlock the door and then sit on the other side, like, how is she going to walk through? As opposed to being excited or like, oh, this is so intriguing.
But no, I mean, like everybody in this business, and especially at that time, I really had to like fight my way through and make a lot of failures. Yeah, you turned it into a positive, it sounds like, where you knew that the bar was going to be higher, there was going to be more scrutiny, and so you really...
Yeah, it's arguably harder to do because you have so many more preconceived notions coming into the room as opposed to some other performer who comes in and there's no... Yeah, there's nothing.
Yeah, there's nothing. Blank slate, yeah.
You know, I think the singing, like, I actually wanted to be a singer. That was what I wanted to do.
But guess what? Love Myself, I love that song. You did it.
You're a singer. So at 40-something, how old was I? I don't know.
I did a movie where I sang. And let me tell you, the internal journey on that was real challenging.
I'm sure. Facing that monster for myself.
And I remember seeing, God bless her, Lisa Marie, Lisa Marie Presley, when she had come out with her first album, and they obl album and they obliterated her. They obliterated her.
And I was like 16 years old at the time, I think. And I was like, oh, that's not a good choice.
Like that's a hard path. And then, yeah, I did the high note and I recorded songs and I made it through that terrible sort of internal monster of I'm never going to be my mom.
And I realized I'm never going to be my mom. I'm never supposed to be my mom.
You're never supposed to be your mom. And you killed it.
And you killed it. It's so good.
I love that song. I always used to say to myself, yeah, I mean, you're a failure.
Like you will never actually enter the Super Bowl in a halftime show in a helicopter. Like, babe, it's all going to be garbage.
But you don't need to. Nobody's going to get.
But wait, what about, but didn't you have an embarrassing moment in high school or something where you sang? Yeah. I sang an acapella song and I started on the wrong key and my voice cracked and I panicked and like froze.
And then I tried again and messed it up again. And the entire audience started going, you can do it, you can do it.
And my best friend at the time, like, came on stage and hugged me, and I did it again. And then I was like, that's it, we're good.
We've handled that little singing desire. I had, I talk about, I think I talked about it before, I had the same kind of thing when I was doing a show called, guys? Promises, Promises.
Promises, Promises, yeah. Promises on Broadway where I had the pressure.
I didn't see. What was your favorite scene? It was incredible.
It was the pressure. Will you sleep on the mic? Will you sleep? Good night, Oscar.
What was my cue? Shit, I'm sorry. Opens April 24th.
Which theater? Velasco. Oh my God, I didn't even remember.
I know more than you. This is the most advertised show of all time.
The pressure of singing in front of all these people a solo song is a lot. Like when everybody's looking at you to sing great and then you have like The the X Factor and American Idol and you know, the voice and all these singing competition shows where people judge you for singing.
And so all that pressure was, and it made me not be able to sing. And I was like, I got to quit.
I quit. I got to get fired.
Please fire me. I can't do this anymore.
And then I went to therapy and I got over it and then I sang fine, but I know what you mean about like cracking or anything. It really is like traumatizing.
There's nowhere to hide. Yeah, there's nowhere to hide.
I will tell you now, like there's nothing I like better. During filming of that movie, I was like, get me on a stage with a mic and just an audience.
Just get out there and listen. Just listen to me.
And if I'm not singing, I'm going to be talking. Listen, let me change my clothes so you can see another outfit.
Look up. Listen, sit there.
Don't go to the bathroom. I got more.
It's like, there's nothing. I love this character.
I love this character. There's nothing.
I'm like, hold on a second. I got more to say.
Nope, I didn't ask you a question. I'm answering myself.
Thank you so much. Like, I just want to, like, get in there and just keep going.
Remember Star Search? Are we all old enough to remember Star Search? Yes. Do you remember Sam Smith? Sam Smith, yes.

Sam Smith. He's amazing.

Was on Star Search?

Do you remember?

He was the one.

Not Sam Smith.

Not Sam Smith.

Sam.

Oh, God.

He sang the Star Spangled Banner or something.

He sang Over the Rainbow.

Sam Harris.

Sam Harris.

Yeah, he was amazing.

You do remember him.

If I showed you him right now, and he was like, whoa.

Oh, God.

He really went in there.

He was amazing.

He was amazing.

And this was Ed McMahon was the host, right? Mm-hmm. All by himself.
He didn't have a co-host with him, did he? No. No.
I remember that. Star Search.
That was like the first American Idol or something. Rosie O'Donnell was on Star Search.
Yeah, I was going to say, it launched a bunch of people, I think. Yeah, remember that? I should bring that back.
Anyway. If you're at home, just Google it right now.
Go ahead and we'll take a second. Take a look and you can see we catch up what we're talking about.
You know, I was just talking about the other day. We are also the generation that remembers Ovaltine, Tang.
Yes. I'm trying to think of some of the other things I was trying to think of.
College is all I drank was Tang. Tang.
It was just, you needed water. I was just knee deep in Tang.
Cr, bro. The drink.
What is your problem, dude? I can have a conversation without being, you know what? You don't need to say poo. You don't need to say the other part.
No, because I just got it. All right, so listen.
Oh, man. So wait, Tracy.
I'm sorry, Tracy. First of all, that's my sister's name, and I love her, and I love you.
All right, so listen. Oh, man.
So wait, Tracy.

I'm sorry, Tracy.

First of all, that's my sister's name, and I love her, and I love you.

All right, so listen.

Your sister, Tracy, I didn't know that.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm a big fan of the podcast.

So listen, I heard you on...

So I heard you on Glennon Doyle.

I listen to the podcast.

I just ignore when you're like, I don't want to.

Believe me, I get it.

I heard you on Glennon Doyle's podcast, and you were fantastic.

Thank you.

I love them.

You, you, me, I get it. I heard you on Glennon Doyle's podcast and you were fantastic.
Thank you. I love them.
I get it because you always talk about, we talk about this too, about like how you love being home and you know, you wished you wanted to go out more when people invited you to cool places, but you don't often like to go out. It's like the weird tangle between wanting to be invited and also like not.
Right. But I love this quote of yours which is so great.
You said, I'm an introvert who plays an extrovert in life. Yeah.
I think that's true. Yeah.
I think that's a lot of people. I'm the same.
Yeah. I don't, I would love to not go out every time it's time to go out.
You don't play an extrovert. I don't even try.
You don't do anything. You're an introvert who acts like an introvert.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, because Amanda, I got Amanda right there.
It was just like the greatest extrovert. So I can just lay back, let her do all the talking and socializing.
You got a built-in bad guy is what you got. Don't worry.
Exactly. Travel with your bad cop.
A little bit. Tracy, how are you single? I don't know.
I mean, it's kind of a mess. Sorry.
You know what? I'll tell you. Let's get back.
No, let's get back to Will's question. Because I'm broken.
Wow. No.
Would you break yourself, Tracy? No, no, no. What guy wouldn't go nuts for you? You know what my theory is, Sean? I feel like I'm a unicorn, and so it's hard to find another one.
Yeah. But it's not to say that I have had a boring life.
You know what? The one thing that's true about all unicorns. What? They're really horny.
Hey, guys. I can't believe we're laughing.
I just snorted. That is just inappropriate.
That was the worst joke ever. It's one of the worst jokes.
By the way, also. They're not good.
None of them are good. There's only one unicorn.
That's the whole purpose of a unicorn. No, there's a village of unicorns, Will.
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And now, back to the show. Let's talk, how about this for a segue? I want to talk about your career and how great you are and how amazing Black-ish was and that it's off the air now and do you wish it was still on the air? Did it end at the right time? Did you, you know, and by the way, I remember hearing some story about how you used to make yourself cry as a kid and something like that.
I did. To become a better actress or something like that.
Well, yeah, my favorite thing to do is like I would get upset about something and cry and then I would just lay down and I would notice the tears were just puddling on the floor and then I would move myself as quickly as I could towards a mirror to just see what it looked like. Oh my God, look at that.
Is that good? I don't know. Just sort of really trying to just see what it looked like.
Do you have a cry trick? Do you have a certain thing that you think about that can bring the tears? I just think of the most awful thing, like my worst nightmare of what could happen, somebody being gone. Yeah, I do the same thing.
It's terrible. It's so bad to do to yourself.
It's so bad for your soul. Like, it is just terrible.
I remember on Black-ish, we had a scene where that season when Dre and I were getting a divorce, and then it all ends with, like, Bo's father dying. And I have to say Bo's father dying because I kept, we did this scene.
I was supposed to be a mess crying hysterically. And then we're on a comedy.
So then they were like, all right, let's get to the next scene. And I was like, I'm still, like, my dad died.

Be sensitive.

I'm like still, like the wound is still open inside my soul.

I haven't stopped rolling yet.

Like, I'm still bleeding inside.

Just give me a second.

But it's like impossible.

Like, how do you, you know?

I'm still rolling.

No one said cut in there, okay? You're still crying on the way home. Still no one said cut.
It's ridiculous. What did you ask? You ask if, I think, you know, I did eight years on Girlfriends and eight years on Black-ish.
I know. What a career.
I mean, that's crazy. Two big shows.
That's crazy. And I think it was perfect timing for it to be done.

The beauty of Black-ish ending was we knew it was ending.

So I was able to walk into the last year, the last season,

so present to sort of all of it.

And to actually get the ritual of saying goodbye and having it be over.

Whereas on Girlfriends, we didn't know.

We ended the last episode that we shot of Girlfriends.

I directed and it was during the writer's strike.

So we had no writers on set and then we just disappeared.

There was no wrap party.

There was no nothing after eight years.

So this was really special to be able to sort of finish this way.

That's like whenever I have a gathering at my house,

people just leave and I go.

And you don't even know.

Wait, where did everybody go? They were like, we didn't like it. You just hear the door slam.
It's like dad screeching tires. That's my dad leaving.
Wait, we didn't have a wrap party, dad. But wait, wait, Tracy, that's 16 years.
I know. That's crazy, right? Of sitcom television, of episode television.
I mean, that's so long. A, that's an incredible run.
And lucrative. And do what...
And very lucrative. Hold on.
I'm a black actress. Okay.
Now, please continue. Okay.
Uh-huh. Fair enough.
I've done well, but let's compare. Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead. For sure, for sure.
Let's compare. Fuck it.
Now, is it true that you, when mom used to drive out of that driveway and she was away, you try on her dresses and her outfits,

and that's where fashion comes from?

Because, you know, I do...

I try it. Put it on.

You put it on.

I would take it.

No, no, no. It was even worse.

I would literally...

She would be pulling out of the driveway.

I would go look.

Okay, she's pulling out. Great.

And I would go into her bathroom, into the closet,

and I would start taking everything I wanted,

throwing it over my arm to move it into my closet for the time she was gone. So it's like I would open my closet as if these things were mine.
And one time she came back, she had forgotten something. She was like, what are you doing? I was like, I am going to surprise you by organizing your closet.
No way. No way.
Did you really? She's like, that's amazing. I was like, I know, but go.
Get out of here. What'd you forget? Let me get it for you.
Stop it. That's hysterical.
Wait, so, and is that where fashion, where is your mom the inspiration for loving fashion or? I don't know. Because I follow you like a crazy person on Instagram and all of your like gorgeous, you always look so gorgeous in all the stuff you wear.
Thank you. I love clothes.
I will always shop and there will always be dirty dishes in my sink. Combination of both.
Two things that are just true about me. But I stack the dishes nicely because I'm extremely organized.
Fashion was an armor for me. And looking back, I've actually realized it was one of the ways that I sort of protected myself from the world and fought microaggressions and racism.
In the world that I lived in, I would navigate myself and my external appearance in a way that gave somebody an impression. That and my articulateness.
And I would sort of dive in in a way that like, you cannot belittle me. I love that.
Not only am I close telling you that, but, and also around men and whatever. Like I just was able to sort of clothe myself in a way that told the world what I wanted them to know about me.
And now it's a creative expression. What age do you think? That's such an interesting, what age do you think that you started, A, doing that, especially sort of the microaggressions? And B, did you become actually cognizant of the fact that that's what you were doing? I wasn't cognizant of that until now.
Oh, wow. Because I started to think back.
I can't remember who I was talking to. And I was like, wait a minute, that's fascinating.
Because as I said, I've always loved clothes and so I was always a shopper. But a lot of it was, there's a way you're not going to talk to me because I'm presenting myself in a particular manner.
And I think that is a part of it. As black people in this country, there is an idea of who we are, black and brown people.
And so there's an external presentation that is expected that goes into respectability politics and all of these different things. There's a, you know, a way to sort of play into that.
And I used clothing as one of those weapons for myself. I don't think I realized, but it was from young because I also, a person who was very independent from a young age and I always looked older than I was.
I had to prove to people that I was younger and didn't have an ID or something.

And... a young age and I always looked older than I was.
I had to prove to people that I was younger, you know, and didn't have an ID or something. Um, and some of it was my sort of, uh, stature and, um, I've always been very, like I've always looked older for my age and sort of very articulate and clear in my communication.
And so I don't know. Uh, but now it's just a way I spend my money.
If you do, if this character doesn't hit the road, I'm going to fucking snap her. There's a couple of characters.
They're behind me. You can't see them.
But there's Mademois Vare, who's the alcoholic acting coach. Related to the bone at all? Yeah, I was just going to say.
Boney Vare? No. How dare you fuckers.
You're a dear, sweetheart. You're such a dear.
I love the way you smile. It's wonderful.
Yes, yes. Maddie Varence, she's all eyebrows.
There's a picture behind me. Apparently, I've done this my whole life.
And my mom, one day, I was on the phone with my mom. She started talking in this weird voice.
I was like, mom, what are you doing? She was like, I'm just doing what you're doing. And I was like, I don't know what you're doing.
So I'm not sure. She's like, you always do this when you're telling stories.
You just go into different voices. And I was like, do I? And yeah, so I apparently do this all the time.
I love it. Let me ask you something about fashion.
How do you know what is happening right now? Like, is there an agreed upon magazine that like, oh, if you see pictures of, let's say like, how would you know that overalls are back? Is? Like if it's in vogue or if it's at the store? Asking for a friend. Here's the thing, though.
So there's a difference between style and fashion, in my opinion. Thank you.
Amen. It's like a difference between spirituality and religion.
Style is how you do things. It's sort of the, and fashion is the sort of what everybody is saying is in or out.
Oh, my God, Will what are you about to say? Sorry, I'm just agreeing with you and I'm listening to you tell these two heathens. Keep going, Tracy.
We're on the same page. Go ahead.
And so, for me, I really don't follow what's in and out. There are things that will tell you what the trends are and you'll start to see, but it's just like with anything.
There's a zeitgeist and like certain things come in at the same time. And then there's somebody, there's, you know, an Anna Wintour, whomever, Edward Anifel, who will tell you like this year, the trend is overall pink lips and black nails.
You know what I mean? But for me, I think that I should wear my clothes and they shouldn't wear me. So I follow what makes my heart sing.
And the truth is I've been, the things that I wear, my body's been the same, the shape of my body's been the same, slightly changed, but I still wear the same shapes, high-waisted pants, wide-leg trouser. I do love an overall.
I love a big chunky shoe, always have. You know, it's like those things are the same for me.
But girls have so much more options than guys. It's like a suit.
Not anymore. Not anymore.
You can wear whatever you want. But like that's, I always feel guilty when Amanda is like, you know.

Sorry, I just heard my name. I was asleep for a

second.

I think guys have it so easy.

Like you go to some like black tie event. Well,

it's just a tuxedo. Great.
I'm done in 10

minutes. But have you guys looked though, if you like

notice now, like men

are leaning into all

these different spaces and wear skirts and I mean, didn't Brad Pitt just wear a skirt for his press junket or something you can wear whatever you want Jason I would love to see you in a skirt or some sparkles didn't you run into Brad at the Oscars or something and you were like totally star-struck I ran into Brad Brad did not see me when I saw him I saw him and eye contact. That's it.
He is handsome. That's it.
I love that. That is a good looking dude.
It's like weird. Who's the other one? There was someone else recently.
And I was just like, what is wrong with that face? Why does it look like that? It's so pretty. Who was it? Obviously, it wasn't any one of us.
Keanu Reeves?

You know what?

Yeah, no, it's okay.

We'll just... What was that, Sean?

Hold on a second.

Did you say Keanu Reeves?

Keanu Reeves?

I did.

But is that pretty high

on your list, Sean?

Keanu, no.

I love Keanu.

I'm a huge fan.

He's a good-looking guy.

He's not my type.

Yeah.

No?

I mostly have dated black men.

I date...

But as a young'un, it went from, it went like this.

Jason.

Yep.

Yep.

Then I think it was Keanu.

Okay.

Yep.

Really?

And never been, I've never been like a Brad Pitt fan.

Like he was not like a crush from movies.

But when you see him in person, it's like weird.

Startling.

Like you're just like, my God,

what is happening with that face?

Yeah, he's got tons of Riz.

It's really extraordinary.

What's Riz?

Riz.

Is that what the kids are saying?

I'm not explaining it to you guys.

You have to,

because I'm a guest

and I don't know.

Riz is like what all the kids,

like my kids say,

they all talk about,

they'll talk about like a guy

who's got like game or like,

I think it's charisma. Oh, Riz like charisma that's amazing I'm totally stealing that my kids hate it because I use it all the time and they're really embarrassed by the way that I use it why don't you switch it to ma this guy's got a lot of ma I actually kind of like that too you know but the charisma you know the thing is as you as you you know you realize like that has nothing to do with sex appeal like that too.
You know? But the charisma, you know, the thing is, as you, you know, you realize, like, that has nothing to do with sex appeal. Like, the physical, this is not.
Right, right, it's all. No, wait, wait, sorry.
So keep going. So you went, it was Jason, then Keanu, then it was never really Brad, although we all agree that Brad Pitt is incredible.
Like, objectively. It's like objectively, that's just like a, okay.
Incredibly handsome and sweet. Nobody's going to dispute that.
Yeah. And a great guy.
Keep going. Now, talk about Riz.
You got a lot of Riz. And I didn't know, Tracy.
And I didn't know, I was like, why doesn't she have her own podcast? And now you do. And it's called I Am America.
It is very different from a Riz podcast, though. Wait.
Wait, when did it start and how is it? It's not a muh podcast.

It's not a thing.

We're going to make it a thing.

Just pick a different syllable, bro.

I'm embarrassed in the way that my kids are.

God.

I can't wait to see those boys again.

Jason's about to dab for fuck's sake.

Did I do it right?

No.

No?

You did not.

I don't even know.

That looked like something from cheer camp.

Hi.

Ready.

Okay.

Ready.

Oh, my God. Did I do it right? No, you did not.
I don't even know. That looked like something from cheer camp.
Hi. Ready.
Okay. And go.
Yes, I have a podcast that is January 31st that I'm very excited about. It's called I Am America.
And we meet people who are redefining their own identity and the idea of community and what I think is the possibility of our country. And the thing that's so exciting to me is it's a version of, it's the best of our country and a version that I just don't hear enough of around people that are looking to belong and end up creating a sense of belonging for so many others.

And so they tell their own stories.

It's some people you might know, some you don't know at all.

Deanna Van Buren, who is one of very few black female architects.

A man by the name of Tony Hillary, who started Harlem Grown in New York. And his beautiful story and realizing that it takes a lot to grow children and it's not what you expect.
Keira Gaines, who's a therapist, a black male therapist and really works with people. And so I then sort of create context.
And so much of what happens for the black and brown stories in this country is they're decontextualized and we don't get to really hear the context and the fertility, the sort of depths of their stories. And so I do the intro and the outro and I sort of frame and give context to their stories.
And I'm just very excited about it. Every time I listen and the editing process, I just have been, I moved to tears at how beautiful these stories and these people are.

So it's been really fun for me.

I love that.

That's great.

I can't wait to hear that.

Yeah, it's fun.

You say we, is it you by yourself or just you and your team of people?

Me and my team.

We put together a really beautiful team that honestly is just as beautiful

of a tapestry as the people we're interviewing.

Just amazing people doing our sound design and our producer Nicole Hill.

It's really been a really fulfilling process for me.

That's great.

I love it.

I can't wait to hear it.

Well, you know, we've taken up too much of your time.

I love people with two names.

I love people with three names even more.

Tracy Ellis Ross, you're amazing.

Thank you for being here.

This has been so much fun.

I am a huge fan of all of you.

You know how much I love you so much.

God, you're so funny.

You're so hilarious. Yeah.
Oh my God. You are.
You are. You are.
It's so great to meet you and to talk to you. And you got a ton of riz.
You're riz. I'm just going to leave you with that last little bit of ma.
Thank you. I know you're busy with all the stuff.
Thank you so much. The products you got going on and the lines and the things.
Oh, yeah, pattern beauty. It's been really fun.
It's a really fun thing getting to this point in one's career where you actually can start creating things and not just waiting for the next job. Yeah, it's really exciting.
Not everybody gets to get here, so it's fun. Yeah, well, you worked your buns off, so, you know, kudos to you.
Congratulations. And I still have really, really nice buns.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Sweet buns. Hot buns.

Sweet buns.

Yeah.

That's what it is.

Sticky buns.

Okay, amazing.

All right, honey.

Bye.

Thanks, Tracy.

Thank you so much.

What a pleasure.

Hope to see you soon.

Bye, sweetie.

How great is she?

Jason, have you ever met her?

I have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Super duper nice.

Tracy.

Will, what about you?

Had you met her before?

I've never met her before.

Isn't she unbelievably funny?

She's so cool.

She truly does have charisma.

Oh, my God.

I mean, off the charts.

I think she could talk about like,

I know Dana Carvey was on a recent show.

It's like, she could be a super huge sketch comedy person.

Oh, my God.

She is not slow.

Yeah, she's so fucking witty.

She's so witty and so funny.

And the energy.

And you know what?

Like, a lot of people,

there's this equation, I think,

like, that suits certain, you know,

names and celebrities or whatever.

If your name equals joy,

I think you got something.

And I think her name,

I think she just equals joy.

I think she's so joyful. You're saying when you hear her name, when you hear her name, you think joy.
Yeah, for sure. Don't you? What do you think people think of when they hear your name? My name, I got to take a potty break or something.
Oh, Sean Hayes, I got to shit. No, it's also a good feeling.
No, no, no. It's a good feeling.
Also, Sean is another person just like Tracee Ellis Ross. You're like, that person brings good positive energy and I think laughter and it's fun and good.
Seriously, they do. That's how I feel when I think of you.
Oh, well, that's very nice. Yeah.
No butt coming here, huh? I know. I thought I was waiting for a big butt.
Huh. But we didn't get a chance to talk about...
That's very sweet, Will. I love you guys very much.
I love you very much. So, but we didn't get a chance to talk about all of her, you know, products and all the products of the products, which are called.
Are you talking about the bi products? Bi. Why do you just have to make it sound like someone's getting stuck in a vice? I do, I will.
Bi. Bi.
Bye. Why do you just have to make it sound like someone's getting stuck in a vice? I do or will.
Bye. Bye.
Bye. Smart.
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