"Octavia Spencer"

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Oh, just another cold open for the show here, huh?

Maybe it'll be interesting this time.

I don't know.

Maybe you guys can say something.

Well, if you keep your mouth shut, it will be.

Go ahead, Will.

It's not supposed to be interesting.

It's just an amuse-bouche.

Oh, I speak French.

My name's Will.

Amuse-bouche.

Oh, my God. I don't know.
Maybe you guys can say something. Well, if you keep your mouth shut, it will be.
Go ahead, Will. It's not supposed to be interesting.

It's just an amuse-bouche.

Oh, I speak French.

My name's Will.

Amuse-bouche.

Yeah, I'm from Canada, so I knew two languages, you stupid ass.

Oh, well, can't wait for your next visit to Canada.

Hope you like bricks in the face.

Welcome to Smartless. Smart.

Less.

Smart. Less.
Smart Less. Smart Less.
Smart Less. Would people be interested or repulsed at all if they looked at your search history, either one of you? No.
Do you guys get creepy on the internet? Do you get sort of like, well, I can kind of anonymously check out this subculture. Do you guys do any of that? We should read our search history on an episode.
Huh. We could do that.
That would be nice. Actually, the other person should read it so that you can't self-edit.
That's true. Mine is pretty benign.
Mine is a lot of Wikipedia holes that I go on that you'd be astonished at how you'd be like, wow, is this guy bored? Mine is about world events and how I can help and reach out to hundreds of millions of people and offer my advice and my experience in life. Jason, I'm guessing by the way you looked at it, I'm guessing yours would be soy sauce near me.
Is that true? No, why do we always talk about my puffy face? It's probably my fault every morning. Guys, let's get to it.
Sure. Do you guys get nervous when it's not your guest? I'm a little nervous.
Are you serious? I get nervous when it's my guest. No, I always get a little nervous.
Like, who's this going to be? Oh, you're going to be so excited. I love her.
Nervous is probably the wrong word. No, no, no.
This person... I'm guessing it's a her.
This lady is a phenomenal actress. I've been a great admirer...
Meryl Streep. Who? Meryl Streep?

No, but just about.

Okay.

Or just as popular and successful.

I've been a great admirer of hers for a long time.

She got her start in the business

with an acting role in A Time to Kill in 1996.

No way.

You know I loved her in Hidden Figures

because it was about NASA.

Oh.

Coincidentally, we both had roles

in the international smash hit, win a date with Tad Hamilton. She is an Academy Award winner, has co-starred, guest starred, and most importantly starred in a kajillion hit projects.
But you absolutely know her and love her for making that shit pie in The Help, my girlfriend, Octavia Spencer. Octavia! I just worked with Octavia, and didn't we have fun? Oh, yes.
What was the movie again? This was Thunder Force with our good friend Melissa McCarthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was a superhero type of thing. It was so fun.
So fun. We have not worked together.
So hello and nice to meet you. So nice to meet you.
I'm a fan. I'm a fan.
Well, wait till you meet him.

I'm a fan of yours.

My God, we're so delighted to have you here.

Yeah, this is so great.

You know, we share the same publicist, Octavia,

and I'm always asking her, we know who she is,

what's Octavia up to?

Would she ever want to hang out with me?

And I ran into you at a charity event quite a while ago,

and I was just like, I couldn't believe I was meeting you.

I've been a fan.

You couldn't believe you were at a charity event. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Did you pull in to ask for directions somewhere? She looked like she had a GPS that was working.
Well, it's so nice to have you here, honey. Thank you.
It's good to be here. I want to start right at the very beginning.
You come from a huge family like me, And... Wait, how huge is huge?

Seven.

Good.

Wow.

I'm so jealous.

Seven kids.

That just sounds...

I immediately think about all the family holiday gatherings

and there's just people running around everywhere.

Is that...

Am I right?

That is quite accurate.

And even more people now that people have kids.

Right.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would love that. Yeah, you look like it's a stressful experience.
Yeah, let's get it in the dirt. Who do you wish was not there? Who would you like to no longer come to? Oh, that's a great, let's go around the horn.
If you could go back, let's name family members we would not like to have. Let's start on your mother's side.
I want to talk about something that's so interesting to me, though. You started in casting.
Wow, really? And so I want to know lots of things about that. I want to know, does it make you better an actor? And also, as you're doing it, as you were doing casting and had a voice in choosing maybe if an actor got a part, what's it like knowing that their livelihood depends on choices that you guys discuss behind closed doors? I mean, it's a big decision to cast or not cast somebody in a role.
Well, let me clarify. I never really got to participate in saying who got a job.
I was like a reader and I got to learn through the casting

process. But, you know, it was it was one of those things you can't teach.
You can teach auditioning

technique, but there's a difference in actually being in the room and watching what actors do.

And but it was different, though, because I worked in the southeast. And then when I moved out here, things that we did in the southeast kind of didn't go because, you know, we took props and auditions.
That's taboo. Oh, my God.
I actually gave a friend. I was like, you need to go in there.
When I worked in the southeast, all over, you know, Virginia, Florida, Alabama, all across. and people would come in if they were going to be a waitress in a scene, they would have their little

notepads or they would have a little phone. And so I had a couple of friends who were like, you worked in casting? What should I do in this audition? And Tate Taylor, I'll never get over.
He was, I think, testing for a job. And I said, and I said you gotta stand out you gotta stand out from everybody else you should take a phone and this was before we had cell phones I had him pull out one of the phones that had the with a cord on it like a corded phone no it was a long antenna so we took it out and literally pulled out the antenna and started, you know, did his test, poor thing.
And then he got a phone call. He got a phone call right in the middle of the audition.
He got a phone call as he was walking to his car. And I learned then never to give anybody any pointers.
You must have seen so many, being a reader, I've done that before as well. I remember once I helped out a casting director years ago on, what was that movie that it was Richard Gere and Edward Primal Fear? Primal Fear.
I auditioned for that. Well, they had big, huge casting calls in New York and Chicago and everything.
And so you obviously auditioned for for that and I helped in the cattle call in New York but you must have seen some horror story auditions before do you have any, cause this, I'm gonna take this I'm taking a page out of Sean's one of his books in the back that he hasn't read and say what was your like worst casting nightmare that you were witness to? Oh, man, the worst. We're just saying, like, cringeworthy, where you just felt like, oh, gosh, I wish I wasn't here right now.
Oh, gosh. While you're thinking of one, I have one.
I played the piano for auditions for musicals, and I played the piano for Annie, right, for all the kids coming in to audition. I had to play tomorrow over and over again, right? And there's a song called I Know I'm Gonna Like It Here.
Do you know that song? I know I'm gonna like it here. And you hold the beat, right? And this girl comes in and she stands there and she goes, she actually counts the numbers under her breath while she's holding the note.
So she goes, I know I'm gonna like it here to see two, three, four, six, seven, eight. Oh my God.
She must have been like six years old. Bless her.
God, I wish I would have seen you back then, Sean. Just let me know what was the hair strategy when you were playing piano in auditions? Sure.
So my hair strategy was just to cut as close to a bowl as I possibly could. You had a bowl? A bowl cut? Absolutely.
How much were you giving to the company, Depp, that made Depp gel? How much money of your money did they get? Oh, no. L'Oreal Spritz.
L'Oreal Spritz all the way. And what about Moose? What happened to Moose? Moose? Where did Moose go? Moose didn't hold.
Moose didn't hold. It didn't, did it? Not Moose with.
Wait, so we've gone through the hair thing. So then, so you're working in casting.
What's the moment? Is it one of those great miracle stories? Are you reading and the director's there and says, hang on a second, the reader is the best actor we've had in here today? Is that what happened? Please tell me if that's what happened. It made me want to act because on most of the jobs that we worked on, whenever we were doing the smaller roles, the director would say, you know, I want somebody with a personality or like Octavia.
So I would always get offered these parts that I would politely turn down. Wow.
Sure. Because I was a professional and I couldn't mix it up.
And that just makes them want you more. Well, exactly.
That's what Jason, Jason, what do you call that? Yes. Sexy indifference.
Sexy indifference. Sexy indifference.
So I'll bet you having seen everyone come through the door, it made you feel a little bit more confident each time you were on the other side, right? Because, you know, the imagination goes to a place where like everybody is better than me in general in life. But then when you see people that come through and like, oh, well, I can compete with that, you know, I wish more actors could be on the other side and see that you're plenty talented.
Honey, I have to tell you that I would recommend it. But now with everything being the way that it is, people are putting themselves on tape and won't ever get that experience.
But it totally demystified what happened in the room for me. But I would say to anybody that can help cast a student film just to see what different actors do.
Because here's the interesting thing. When it's written out in the breakdown and the script and all of that, people come in and a lot of people make the exact same choice because it's worded that such and such does this.
We're looking for a 30 to 40 year old who is this height this height and weight or whatever, and this look, and has to act this way. Southern and sassy.
I think they have to fulfill that instead of just bringing themselves. Bringing their unique qualities.
Make a choice. Make a choice.
And I find myself sometimes thinking, you know, when I'm reading something now, to make sure to make choices that it may be a wrong choice, but just to have something completely unique that no one else will do. And that you own, that you're able to execute.
Yeah, now when is the last time you auditioned? Oh man, it's been, I feel like every day is an audition, honestly,'s been it's been 10 years yeah I'm gonna start making choices like you know like imagine like a scene where you gotta deliver some bad news but I'm gonna just like well we just got the report back it looks like you're not going to make it.

Honestly, no.

It's different.

It's different.

It's different. I used to sing, there's a song from Les Mis, hold on,

that's called Empty Chairs and Empty Tables

where my friends are dead and gone.

And I used to sing it with a huge smile on my face.

So wait, Octavia, you said casting made you want to start acting?

You had no interest before that and you just got that as a job?

Or what was it like as a kid?

Thank you. So wait, Octavia, you said casting made you want to start acting? You had no interest before that and you just got that as a job? Or what was it like as a kid? Well, I'd always wanted to be a producer, honestly.
And I love acting, but, you know, I'm from a very practical household. And my mom would have been supportive had I just said, I want to be an actor.
But, you know, she really, like, wanted me to be a doctor or a lawyer. And I'm a germaphobe, so I knew doctoring was not in my future.
Because everything anybody came into the room with, I would probably, did I get it? Oh, my God, it's catching. That's me.
Sean's got it. Sean just got it.
Just you describing it. Just describe it.
And I would get it. Yeah, you are talking to a couple of world-class germophobes here with me and Sean.
Those guys, not me, not me. Yeah, yeah.
So Octavia, what's, tell me your, let's open up this germophobia thing. What is, because I've got an answer for me, we'll go around the horn.
What is, what grosses you out the most? What will you not do because there's too much germ potential. I'll start with mine.
So you know what I'm kind of talking about. I will never walk barefoot on a hotel floor.
Wow. That's good.
Ever. Never.
Oh, gosh. I will never go to very famous theme parks.
You won't even enter the grounds? I don't think I need to go. Got it.
It's aggressive. Octavia? You know, I will never sit on a plane without wiping.
And I've been doing this for years. Wiping everything down.
So definitely the headrest, right? Yep. Ooh, the headrest, the hand.
Anything that my hand has to touch has to be wiped down. You know, the seat back button, you got to really get that one too.
Oh, yeah. That's a touch point.
Touch point. I will never have gazpacho soup in October, like after October.
No, very, very smart. I won't do it.
Not a lot of people know that one. No, no.
And even if I'm in the south of France, I won't do it. Even if it's warm.
What you got to do is you got to do it because it's cold, so all the bacteria can live. What you got to do is you got to do hot.
No, it's just more out of a sense of decency. Yeah.
Now, so I wiped down the plane, the seats too as well. That's kind of a newer thing to me.
I remember like January 2020, I flew to London right before the lockdown. and I went back and I looked at my search.
We're talking about search history before. I looked at my Amazon order history and I'd ordered masks in January 2020.
I was so nervous about everything coming around that I was seeing on the news. And I had to fly to London and I wiped my area down and I wore a mask and everybody looked at me like I was crazy.
Like, look at this nut job. I don't give a hell.
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I want to go back to now, you know, you did all of this work before the thing that really catapulted you, which was the help, which obviously 75 years later, you were amazing, but just incredible. Let us, let us be the first to congratulate you on that.
Yeah, exactly. Thank you, guys.
We've been waiting. You were incredible.
You were absolutely incredible, though. Absolutely amazing.
Sean's great. I love that.
I love that movie. Absolutely incredible.
But you, you did a book tour with the author, Catherine Stockett, is that her name? Yes. Yes.
And I read that she didn't feel comfortable reading passages from the book when it came to the African-American characters. So she asked you to come along and tell me what that was like.
And is that how you got the role? Because again, you were again reading, you know, somebody else's words or something. Yes.
Yeah. Well, it's very interesting because I met Catherine through Tate.
Tate's the director, yeah. Oh, through Tate Taylor, who wrote the screenplay and directed the film.
It was a personal friend. Catherine, I think the help was starting to become like a little wildfire and catch on.
And she was very smart in that she knew that it would have been kind of weird to do the dialect. And it was during pilot season, guys.
And she paid for me. I'm like, normally you don't miss pilot season, but I thought I love this character.
I love this book. And I just said, you know, I'm going to go do this.
And we drove around on her book tour for like three weeks. Wow.
And it was like we were the band driving into town. That's so cool.
Yeah. It was so fun.
How unusual that, and how cool. And then especially considering what it turned into and turning into this great film and to, you know, incredible acclaim.

What a great piece of that story for you to be able to really be a part of the process so early on. Oh, it was important.
The other thing that people probably don't know is that The Help was made into a radio play in the UK. And because of my association with Catherine and because I had done the book on tape, they asked me if I would come and do the radio play, which I'd never done that.
And I did. It was very interesting.
It was very interesting to do a radio play. That doesn't sound positive.
That doesn't sound positive. No, no.
Let's hear about that. It was fun, but when all you have is the audio and people don't get to see you, I was just so used to people seeing me that I thought, am I going to convey this? So it was like just over-exaggerating stuff and oh man, I...
It is a weird thing. Welcome to, by the way, welcome to our world.
People are so happy that our podcast that they don't have to see us anymore. It turns out they rave about it.
Our audience has been exhilarated to not have to look at us. Well, Octavia, you work so much.
What is it that you are not able to do because you're working all the time that you wish you had more time to do that is not acting? I literally, and the one thing that the pandemic made us do is take time, but I didn't actually get to take the time that I would have liked to with my family in Alabama. Okay.
I have nieces and nephews and I feel, you know, with your friends, if you're on the road so much, and I know all of my friends' first children. It's in these past few years that they've had, you know, second kids that are growing up and have personalities.
I feel the same way about my nieces and nephews. So it's making me take time to really just spend more time with family.
Yeah, that's interesting. You do do that.
I can identify with that. That idea that like your friends have a kid and you go, that's so great.
And you kind of get to know the kid. And by the time they have the second kid, you're like, yeah, I already gave attention to your first kid.
What do you want? Now you want equal? You want me to get equal? I don't have that kind of time. What are you talking about? No, wait.
But Octavia, now that you've lived in Los Angeles for many years, do you miss the more, I'm guessing, what you're saying, like quieter, simple life that was Alabama? And do you ever see yourself going back there when you retire, which I hope you never do? Well, I have, since my family's there, I have a home there. But I'm also building a home in another southern state just because I miss a lot of trees.
I miss my—I miss the surroundings. So since my friends are in this very rural area, it's kind of our retirement enclave.
It's so weird. I'm building a house there just so that I am surrounded by— I get it.
You know, what we all run away from is what we run back to eventually. And I miss that.
What are you running away from? Well, I ran away from trees. I wanted more buildings and cars.
And now it's like, I want trees. Yeah.
Sean, what are you running away from? Myself. Everywhere I go.
Is that why you removed all the mirrors in your house? Yeah. Sean, what are you running away from? Myself.
Everywhere I go. Got it? I can't laugh at you guys.
Is that why you removed all the mirrors in your house? Yeah. Yeah.
Did you not know that, Will? No. You took them all out.
Octavia, I want to talk about going to the Oscars. So when you went to...
Was The Help the first time you went to the Oscars? Yes. Yeah? And you won, which is great.
And what was it like when you first got there? Like there are people who have gone so many times and what was your perspective of the first time you went there and like, you know, drank it all in and looked around? Was there anything funny about it that you noticed? Like, that's so weird that they do that. Or I't know they did that or anything like that you know what was really calming and wonderful is that I got to be uh invited to the Oscars along with you know one of my oldest friends Melissa McCarthy and uh Jessica Chastain had become a very close friend and then Jim Rash and Nat Faxonon, I knew them through the groundlings.
Jim Rash is the best. I love it.
I love Jim. I love those guys.
Sean, you don't like Nat Faxon. No, I love them all.
No, we got it. Go ahead.
I love Jim and Nat. I like both those guys a lot.
I'm on the record. I'm on the record of saying I love both of them equally.
Well, we got to go together. And it was it was just important, uh, because it, it kept it all real.
And it was funny. We'd all see each other and go, Oh my God, they let us in.
So, um, uh, it was, it was, can you believe it? Oh man. Um, but it was, it was, it made it so relatable because it was all of our dreams and we got to be there to experience it with each other.
Yeah. And then I've been lucky enough to be there when Alice and Janney won and got to see Emma nominated again.
Got to be there when Viola won again. Got to be there when Jessica was nominated again.
And so I felt I got to be there when Melissa was nominated again. There's something really wonderful when you get to take that, have that experience with other people that you love and that love you.
And it takes some of that grandeur and the overwhelming... Excitement.
Yeah, it's wonderful, but it's humbling. Right.
What did you think about the whole red carpet of it all? That sea of photographers? The thing that people don't know about me, this is a huge reveal. I have huge, and I still have anxiety.
I have real anxiety about red carpets. I love to dress up.
I love to do interviews, but I don't like to do interviews and dress up and have flashing cameras and a big throng of people. So every time you see me on a red carpet, there's always like this, it's like, why is she always shining? It's because I like literally have anxiety.
So when you imagine the longest red carpet in the world. Yeah.
It just goes on forever. But, I mean, it's a really odd thing.
I remember when Arrested Development went to, I think it was the Golden Globes is the first thing that we went to, right, Will? And I remember Michael Cera had never been to a red carpet thing. And he was like, he had, you know, what do we, like, so what do we do? You know, do you just, you just keep walking? And, and I think I was like, no, no, no, you, you walk and you stop and they take some pictures of you.
And then, and then you walk again and stop and they take some pictures. He goes, okay.
And like, how do you figure out which camera to look at? You just keep my kind of moving your eyes around a little bit. He's like, okay, good.
So a couple of days later days later we go and uh he he's he's waiting his turn to go walk on the red carpet and in front of him uh is wait don't don't blow it don't blow it don't blow it don't blow it i'm not can i just finish because you're about to blow the oh am i go ahead let's hear it will you could you are you almost mentioned the name you he's walking there well that's that's part of the joke but let's go ahead they were going mich going, Michael. No, no, no.
They were going. No, you're doing it backwards.
Okay, you go ahead. I'm telling you.
Go ahead. No, no, you keep going.
So in front of him is Sarah Jessica Parker, and behind of him is Michael Douglas. And so they're walking along, and they're going, Michael, Sarah, Michael, Sarah.
And he had no idea which way to look. So, Will, in your telling, you would say.

You're telling the joke backwards.

He's walking along and he says, just keep going as they call your name.

And he keeps hearing them go, Michael, Sarah.

And he's thinking, oh, my God, this is incredible.

Michael, Sarah.

And then he looks on either side of him.

One side is Michael Douglas and the other side is Sarah Jessica Parker.

That's how you tell a joke.

Let's go to a commercial.

Because that was fucking embarrassing. Let's go to a fucking commercial.
We'll take a breath. You're right.
You're right. You're right.
Will? Will? You're right. Hey, it's great to be here on Jason's first day in showbiz.
This is fun. This is why I don't write, you know? When you have something as big as the help and then you start getting offers and your career starts opening up and getting bigger and bigger and people are noticing how talented you really are and you're invited into that kind of status.
Well, look at Will. What's going on? Jason knows.
He's just all pumped up because he was right. He loves being right.
And you're now in this league of, you know, for lack of a grosser word, legitimized as an actor. You were before, but for some reason, people see you differently in this business now.
And do you— Legitimated. What's that? The correct word is legitimated.
Yeah, legitimated. I'm just going to try to be right.
Legitimified. I'm just going to keep being wrong.
Go ahead. Legitimified.
Legitimified. So you have to now navigate making more difficult decisions as far as representatives, deal-making.
There's the business side of that. Did you fire all your agents? No, that's not what I meant.
How do you navigate up that ladder? You know what? I've been very fortunate in that the majority of the people that are with me have been with me since the beginning of this whole journey from obscurity to, you know, people. Some people know my name.
And so I feel like I've had good guidance and have not felt the need because they know me and they know the things that excite me, the things that I am too safe with that I need to push beyond and challenge myself. Oh God, I'm doing that right now, singing and dancing.
Really?

You're doing a musical right now? I'm doing a musical, guys. Are you doing the movie with Will and Ryan? Yes.
Oh, my God. That's great.
We should just go to Boston because they're all up there. We've literally interviewed everybody in that show.
Yeah, no, let's just go up there next week. You should come, guys.
And it's with Sean Anders. I mean, directing and I just feel very lucky that the reason I am not a one hit wonder and went out on a high note with the help is that I have wonderful partnerships and representation.
Melissa Cates and everybody at Viewpoint. I mean, I've just, I feel like- That's our publicist.
Our publicist. And I don't, I feel like the guidance is there and they understand me.
So I feel very lucky. That's great.
Yeah, you must feel, and I feel like you get all the attention. Sean doesn't get anything.
Is that right? Because I would do that. If I was your publicist, I would give it all to you.
All of my press goes to Octavia. And then I'd be like, and I'd be looking at my phone.
I'd be like, oh, it's Sean. Hey, what? Hey, what? We're mistaken for each other, Sean.
All the time. About a dollar.
So what is the role that you've always wanted that you didn't get? Is there a part that you auditioned for or you heard that was maybe going to be offered, but you didn't get it? Oh, honey, this is the absolute. I have always been obsessed with Kevin Costner.
What? He's one of those actors that I've seen everything he's done. And I had played so many nurses in Hollywood that there was a movie that he did called Dragonfly.
And there was a nurse,

he was a doctor and his wife was killed in a foreign country and he had to go,

he was going back to get her remains and found out that he literally had a child that, you know,

he didn't know about. And it was so amazing.
And they brought me back so many times to play

See you next week. had a child that, you know, he didn't know about.
And it was so amazing. And they brought me back so many times to play his nurse who had all these scenes with Kevin.
And it was after like the fifth time I'm thinking, I have it, I have it. I honestly thought, you know, in those horror films when people are so afraid or they're so angst ridden that they're in the shower and they're just so upset that they cry and slide down the back of the shower.
Right, right. When I found out I didn't get that part, I was like, I'm okay, I'm okay.
I take a shower. And as I'm in the shower, I just slide down the back wall.
Oh, no. And what pulled me out of it, guys, what pulled me out of it is that my towel got stuck in the drain and literally the water was rising up and it snapped me out of it because it was about to overflow.
You went full Karen Silkwood. You know, one time I auditioned, I had a callback with Kevin Costner.
Have I ever told you guys this? Years ago. And I was in New York for that movie.

Did it called The Postman?

Mm-hmm. And so the night before, I'd gone for some sushi.

Oh.

And so you're a little puffy.

And no, well, that's not, that was the least of my problems back then.

And so I get home.

About 3 a.m., I wake up, and I am throwing and going.

Oh, wow.

And it's just everything.

And I'm in bad shit. I end up going to the hospital.
Now you are losing water. Wait, sorry.
Keep going. Now I'm losing.
Jason.m. I wake up and I am throwing and going.
Oh, wow. And it's just everything.
And I'm in bad shape. I end up going to the hospital.
Now you are losing water weight. Sorry, keep going.
Now I'm losing. Jason's looking at the glass being half full.
He's like, lucky. Oh, lucky.
So I end up going to like NYU Medical Center and they put me on a, you know, they give me sort of a, you know, put me on a bag. A sodium drip, and now you're gaining water weight.
Keep going. So, I just like barely keep it together, but I've got this huge callback at the Essex House Hotel on Central Park South in New York, and I go up there, and I remember it was like the dead of summer, like the middle of summer, super hot, I'm sweating, and I'm like, I can't be more than five feet from a bathroom at this point.
And I got, so I come in to talk to Kevin Costner. I sit down really gingerly.
Sure. Oh, you're sore.
I'm sore. And there's more coming.
And I'm like, nice to meet you. I'm really excited.
He's like, okay, let's see what we start to read. And he goes, let's get this on its feet, huh? And I'm thinking, oh, gosh.
Oh, Jesus. Kevin, I've torn something.

Just don't shit yourself in front of Kevin Costner.

Don't shit yourself in front of Kevin Costner.

Did you get through it?

I barely, I got through it.

It was terrible because I was just, I was a wreck.

And I'd been up all night.

I'd been in the hospital.

I was sweating.

Nice to meet you.

And of course, I did not get the part.

Good luck with the project, guys. Yeah.
Anyway, Kevin, if you're out there, I love you, buddy. This episode is supported by FX's Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate.
Inspired by a true story, this series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband and explore the full breadth of her sexual desires. She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend Nikki, who stays by her side through it all.

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And now back to the show. Octavia, how did the Kevin fascination start? What hooked you? I think the first thing that I ever saw of his was Dances with Wolves.
Sure. And the fact that he wore all those hats and it was so...
John Dunbar. John Dunbar.
John Dunbar. John Dunbar.
Yeah, that'll do it. Oh man, I just love that movie.
And then, you know, he's gorgeous. And to get to meet him, he's such a, he's a good guy.
So, but I, you know,

it's when you meet a person that moves you and you're like, oh my

God, I got to see everything. Wait, wasn't he in

Hidden Figures? He was in Hidden Figures.

So you got to work with him. I got to

work with him twice. We did a movie

together called Black or White.

Oh yeah. Wait, that's

Mike Binder's movie. Mike Binder.

Yeah. Yeah.
He's a friend of the court. Does Kevin know that you're a security risk? Well, I tried to keep that from him.
But let me tell you, when I got the call to do Black or White, I was driving from Beverly Hills. And I'm the worst driver, guys, anyway.
But I'm driving, and they're like, he and I had the same agent at the time. And he was calling to tell me about, you know, uh, the role and offer me the role and, and, and black or white.
And I'm thinking, oh yeah, yeah. Kevin Costin is going to call me and I'm driving.
And all of a sudden, you know, my phone rings and it's not a phone number. I recognize I pick up and it's like, Octavius, Kevin.
I'm like, oh God, because I'm about to lose signal. I pull over like, you know, it.
Like, you know, it was so crazy. But he's still, you know, he's a good, it was just fun to get to work with him.
The man has some presence, doesn't he? He definitely does. And he's the definition of classically handsome, too, isn't he? He's classically handsome and classically generous, too, guys.
Yeah, I love that. Very generous.

Yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

Now, is it true, Octavia, are you the, I'm going to get this right or wrong,

are you the most nominated African-American actress of all time?

No, I think that would be Viola Davis this year with, oh God.

Did she just surpass you?

So it was until this year?

Uh-huh.

No, I think she and I were tied. We were tied.
That's pretty awesome. And, yeah.
That's pretty great. Yeah, no kidding.
She's amazing. That's crazy.
That's crazy. The most nominated.
That's incredible. Well, now you get another one for the singing and the dancing, too.
Ooh, honey. I would just love, like, my scalp is the only thing that's sweating and losing weight.
It's the thinnest thing on the body. All this dancing, I'm like, come on, God.
Yeah, what's the dancing like? Did you have to train for it before you guys started? Are you training right now? I'm training right now. I'm just trying to keep it all flowing.
It's just not my body. I don't have rhythm.
And, you know, just moving from here to like right there and I'm pointing maybe a foot away or like, you know, I can do it. But I just don't have that kind of movement.
And to do it and sing at the same time is challenging but really, really fun. How are you dealing with that nasty prick, Ryan Reynolds?

I mean, it's just... He's a nasty piece of business.

Yeah, you just must just wreck the vibe on the set

and... He's not a friend.
He's not a friend of the show.

Worst reputation. And that negative

Will Ferrell, I mean,

it's just always so...

It's tough. It's tough.
Come on. Turn it

upside down. Let's turn it into a smile.

I would say this, and I reserve this for only a few people, but Will Ferrell is a grade A a-hole. Yeah.
We'll cut that out. I'm not going to tell him you said that.
I don't want to start none, and I don't want there to be none. Because he's also very violent.
A lot of people don't know how violent he is. Make a clip of it, and I want to mail it to his house.
But you're going to get through it. You'll get through it, Octavia.
I'm going to deny all aspects of this, guys, because, you know. Octavia, so what I want to ask you is, so you mentioned Jim Rash and Nat Faxon and, of course, Melissa and all these groundlings.
So forgive me, were you a groundling? Did you start in sketch comedy? No. I took classes at the Groundlings.
Okay. But I would go because Tate Taylor, he did go through the whole four years.
Right. And I met Ben and Melissa and Nat, all of those guys.
I would go and watch them, you know, every Sunday. Right, of course.
And it was the best. And so we all became friends.
Were you friends with Dax too? Dax. I got to be Dax.
It's funny. It's a small world.
I know. It's so small.
So, so small. So you seem to be living the dream of doing everything you've always wanted.
You're constantly working, which is like, oh my God, this is happening. I'm an actor.
I've always wanted to be an actor. Not am I only an actor now, but I'm like one of the most famous actors on the planet.
And what do you do to balance yourself out so it's not all work all the time? Or is that really what makes you happy? And by the way, Sean's looking for a roadmap because he doesn't do anything other than work. So this is more like a suggestion for him.
Please help me. I'm a bit of a workaholic, and I'm trying to not be.

I'm trying to pump those brakes because when people say, it's been 10 years since the help, and I'm like, it's been 10 years? I've been doing this at that pace for that long? It's a little terrifying. But I think that's the I don't think I know that's one, the, the, I don't think, I know that's one of the, the, the life lessons that I, I learned during the pandemic to be able to, uh, to make sure that I have a work life balance.
Yeah. Um, because I really love working.
I just love it. Yeah.
Yeah. But life is also important.
But do you travel and stuff? Like, do you go like, I'm going to finish this job and I'm going to take time and I'm going to go to Europe or whatever. Like, is that, is that your thing? Well, you know, what's funny is I always say, I'm going to take, after this, I'm going to go take some time to travel.
And then, and I always make this declaration. I'm done working after this, guys.
After this job, I'm done working for the year. And then someone comes along with a great project and you're like, well, you know, and so the next thing you know, another nine months has passed.
And so that's been the situation, quite honestly. But, you know, that's one of the reasons why I'm making sure to get back to my roots and see some trees and some grass growing and go to friends' houses and hang out.
It's just important to do that. And does it matter to you whether it's comedy or drama? Do you like being funny or serious more? Let me tell you something.
You guys are comedic geniuses and you make it look really, really easy. Comedy is much more difficult than drama to me.
And so my hat is off to people who can move through both worlds. But I like learning the world of comedy and getting to watch people.
Jason, I'm telling you, it was such an honor

because I think you're one of those people who you can do everything. And to get to watch you

effortlessly do comedy. No, listen, honey, this is not anything that I've not said behind your

back. Don't worry, we're going to cut this.
You're going to cut all of this out. Yeah,

we're not going to let this go out. Just watching you in your element, I learned so much.

I don so much. You never overplayed.
You look past the crab arms. Those crab arms were delicious.
They were delicious. It's just so delicious.
It's beautifully cooked. Oh, yeah, you had crab arms in that film.
Yeah, and my character was pissed off about it. How could you get a superhero power and it'd be crab arms? It'd be crab arms.
It was the best. It made me hungry, though.
It made me hungry. You and me both.
All the time. That's very sweet.
We all feel the same way about each other, actually. All four of us on today's show, yeah? Yeah, you guys are brilliant.
It's a lot of love. Octavia, and...
Oh, yes, yes, sorry, yes, yes.

With all that's going on,

thank you for taking an hour out of your busy schedule

to be here with us today.

Very nice.

Oh, my gosh.

Please.

It's an honor,

and it was so hard for me

to not reveal that I was on early,

and I don't know if you guys

heard me giggling in the background while you're in your opening. It was just like, oh God, I'm gonna spoil this.
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Please, please, please tell Ryan and Will and Sean to stick it in their ass for us. Yeah.
I will. Thank you.
And if they laugh, say, keep it dead fat and say, they mean it. They mean it.
I'm gonna sell sell it, guys. I'm going to sell it.
I love you much. Thank you, Octavia.
What a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so, so much.
God bless you guys and take care. Bless you too.
Thanks, Octavia. Bye.
Bye. Bye.
She did the laptop shut. Yeah.
She's only the second one that's done that. Second one.
Best way to do it.

It's a nice having you and a pleasant goodbye.

Yeah.

And then just shut it.

Yeah.

It's like she's a little pearl in an oyster shell and she just closes it back up.

It doesn't feel the need to like hang around after and go like, hey guys.

Yeah.

That was great.

I was glad that I was able to introduce you to my talk show character.

And then now we can say bye for real. Right.
No, no. Which is why I always liked about Letterman.
Because you do Letterman. What the fuck am I looking at right now? Sorry, I took my shoe off for a second.
It's my Vans. It's one of his shoes.
It's a Vans shoe. And I was just making a point.
You know, when you go to Letterman, he didn't do a lot of, there wasn't a lot of small talk. Not a lot of commercial chit-chat.
Yeah, the commercial chit-chat was... Yeah, when you go to commercial, yeah, Dave would...
Carson would light up a cigarette. He'd sit there, light up a cigarette and watch Doc play in the band.
Really? Right in his seat there. Yeah, yeah, during the commercial break.
Right on the stage. Yeah, just fire up a butt.
No way. When I first moved to L.A.
and I went to a taping of Jay Leno, I was shocked. I was wondering what they do during commercial breaks, right? And I'm sitting in the audience.
And the host and the guest never talk, really. They just sit there next to each other.
Because you had just come from a taping of Price is Right, right? Because you did, like, every show. You were like, I would just watch Rod Reidy.
He's had so much fun with everybody. Come on down.
So then I go to Leto and I go, God, Sean. Here's what I like about Octavia.
Here's what I love about Octavia. She seems like an actor's actor, right? So from the outside, I always think like certain actors or actresses, they just like become famous.
And I don't know, I don't understand like where they came from. But Octavia really worked her ass off to become who she is and we all kind of have the same circle of friends and it's like, oh, she just seems like very of actors.
I agree. Yeah, and there's also, you could tell that she's exactly who she is today, who she was back in the day.
As opposed to, some people get famous and they go, oh, I'm famous now. I can unzip this suit and zip on this one and now I'm this guy and everybody better fucking stand back.
And we've talked about it. The three of us have.
We know people who fame has changed them and not necessarily for the better. Looking at two of them.
Like that fucking Ryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell. Right.
I mean, Jesus Christ. Those two.
Failing upwards. God damn it.
Obviously, Ryan and Will. They slipped right through.
You know what? I'm glad they're in a movie together now because maybe they'll cancel each other out. You know what I mean? Boy, from your lips.
I know. But you're right.
You're right. Octavia does seem to have, and maybe it's also a product of the fact

that she did work for so long in casting

and was a reader,

so she knows what it's like

in having that sort of sense of,

I mean, the three of us know what it's like.

Jason, you grew up doing this,

but still, you know what it's like

when things aren't going great.

I was struggling.

I was struggling.

Yeah, I got a couple of real heartbreaking callbacks

for Golden Graham's spot that I really, really wanted. Is that true? No, I actually booked that one.
No, but you had some lean years, though, in all truth. Oh, yeah, plenty of them, plenty of them.
And, Sean, you know what that's like. It gives you perspective.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, as soon as I— I would get so nervous in casting, though, like going for auditions.
As soon as I, you know, got in there, I'd say hello. And I would want to, bye, tail it out of there.
Bye, tail it out of there. No, no.
Bye. No, no.
You're on your own. You're on an island.
And that's not the end of the show. You're on fire.
You're off the fucking, that was so embarrassing. Burn your mic and shut your laptop.
Jason, I mean this as both a compliment and you might take it the wrong way. Initially, it's a compliment.
Here it comes. But it's safe to say that these, for you, are not the lean years.
What are they? Both professionally and the way you are. Instead, they are.
These are not your lean years. No.
Because you're doing so well, is what I mean. Because you're doing so well.
And? You know what I mean? It's like I am. Is there not a bye going into you? I know.
Just waiting for the. I thought you were teeing yourself up.
No? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, basically, well, I'm taking a big bite out of the.
Bite. No, no, no, no, no.
We don't have it yet. We don't have it yet.
We didn't earn it. I thought mine was good.
No, yours was terrible. That was one of the worst, and we're keeping that in.
And we're keeping it in. We should cut that one.
No, we're not going to cut it. Are you out of your fucking mind? No.
Thank you. We're keeping it.
We're going to sit here

and we're going to keep talking

until somebody comes up with an idea

and tries to gently braid it into the conversation.

So again, so Octavia, fantastic.

Fantastic.

Incredible.

She's there in Boston.

I'm throwing out options for you guys.

Sean, stop writing ideas for you guys Sean stop writing

ideas down

yeah stop writing

ideas down

put your fucking

pen

you can't try to come up

with something

that rhymes with

hi

okay

oh my god

do you guys need help

no we don't need help

no no no

fucking Bennett

we don't need any fucking help

god

just let us sink

so imagine what she's doing today

she's up there

she's up there

she's enjoying her life

she's making a musical

yeah go well

she's up there in Boston

it's a nice sunny day

sure

and she might just get along

the Charles River

Yeah, well... today.
She's up there. She's enjoying her life.
She's making a musical. She's up there in Boston.
It's a nice sunny day. She might just get along the Charles River and just go on one of those beautiful bike trails.
We've used that one before. Did we? Bike! Bike! Sean, you just went bike.
That was terrible.

Okay, you know what?

Here's this.

I'll tell you what.

This has been the worst attempt to end to the show.

Real sloppy ending.

Really sloppy.

And you know what?

It's left me with a taste in my mouth.

My mouth is full of bile.

Acceptable.

Bile.

Definitely acceptable.

Bile.

Bile, you guys.

Bile.

Bile. Smart.
File. Definitely acceptable.
File. File, you guys.
File. File.
Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Smart Less is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Grantary. Hey friends, Jason here.
We're so excited the SmartList has officially joined the SiriusXM family. We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love.
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