Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please

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I have a niece who's nine, and she told me the other day that she loves Please, Please, Please by Sabrina Carpenter, but she knows that it, quote, has a bad word in it.

And the following conversation, talking about that song also has bad words in it.

So, Asha and everyone else, just a heads up, this episode contains explicit language.

Before the day that you all started working on this song, was there a thought or an idea that was in your mind before you ever got to the songwriting stage?

I think it was just such a specific thing that I was going through.

Just like feeling like as a young woman, one day you can be so

confident and detached.

And the next day you're, for lack of a better term, a desperate hoe.

And it was something that was making us laugh.

And I feel like this song was the perfect way to kind of just lay it all out on the table and also talk about something so openly that maybe we're normally just afraid of saying, which is like, sometimes you're just embarrassed by men.

Sabrina Carpenter is a singer, songwriter, and actress.

She had a huge year with her album Short and Sweet, which came out in August 2024.

It debuted at number one and went platinum within a month.

At the upcoming Grammys, she's nominated for Song of the Year, Record of the Year, Album of the Year, and more.

One of her big hits is Please, Please, Please, which she wrote with Amy Allen and producer Jack Antonoff.

He's won the Grammy for Producer of the Year for the last three years in a row.

For this episode, I talked to Sabrina and Jack Antonoff about everything that went into making Please, Please, Please.

Please, please, please don't prove I'm right.

Please, please, please don't bring me to tears when I just did my makeup so nice.

How did you two first meet?

How did you first get in contact and decide to work together?

I first saw you at my show.

Yeah, I came to your show at Radio City Music Hall.

So this was probably like 2021.

And I was playing the show and I couldn't see much, but I could see the big blonde head of hair.

You absolutely could not see me from the stage.

I think maybe someone afterwards told me we were there.

I think that's what it was.

Yeah.

I've been aware of Sabrina's music and loved her work for a really long time.

And then like two weeks later, I went to this party.

And then Sabrina was there for some reason.

I remember you said hello to me and you said that you were a big fan of mine.

And I was like, I genuinely was so taken aback.

He was talking to me about songs that I really cared about and parts of songs I I really cared about.

And yeah, I was just really excited because I've loved everything he's ever made, pretty much except that one thing.

And then

you have to guess which one.

And then we actually got together to work.

And that day, as far as I remember, Lighter Girls and Please, Please, Please happened.

And the beginning of Slim Pickens.

And the beginning of Slim Pickens, which is a pretty crazy studio day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, even to write two and a half songs, even if...

One and a half of them don't come out, just to get through that much work is a lot, but let alone three songs that actually make it.

Not just make it, but are three of like my absolute favorite songs.

Yeah.

Was there any kind of nervousness on either of your parts when that day came?

There's always a little bit of just hoping that there's good chemistry when it comes to writing before you ever write with someone.

But when I first met Jack, it was very clear that we were just both sonically

so on the same page.

And everyone being on the same page is something that you can't really.

No, that shit just is or isn't.

That just happens.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That kind of chemistry between two people is hard enough to find, but it wasn't just the two of you.

Amy Allen was in the room writing with you as well.

How did that come about?

How did she end up writing with you on this song?

Amy and I had been writing together a lot.

She's so smart and she's so fearless.

And I specifically knew that, you know, after I had met Jack, that Amy would be somebody that he also really, really clicked with and appreciated.

And we just had a golden moment of the three of us all being super aligned.

Well, can you tell me how that day started then?

Was there a conversation between the three of you about what you wanted to write about?

I definitely went into those days with so many ideas, but there's also something that's so magical about just letting Jack start playing and just starting to find your way there naturally.

Like that initial idea came from those chorus chords.

Yeah, I remember very vividly Jack playing these chords.

And Sabrina had this idea.

I had the lyric Please, Please, Please, before I knew what I ever wanted the song to be.

Please, please, please, don't prove I'm right.

And then that week, it so happened to be when I was dealing with a specific scenario that I could really go, oh, isn't this funny?

Like, this feels not only good to write about, but it felt really honest.

And then on top of it, the way that we were able to make the songs so playful, it really felt like electricity.

And I remember even more specifically us getting to a place where it felt like the chorus was just coming out so quickly.

And please, please, please don't bring me to tears when I just did my makeup so nice.

I was playing things and just watching Sabrina and seeing what was like lighting her up.

Because I gave him a real mean face when I don't like something.

Yeah, it's like her and Amy are kind of locking in and working on things.

And I go off and I'm starting to make noises.

He moves like a little energizer bunny sometimes.

He really is just moving around a lot.

And then he'll be like, bring in the cello.

Actually, no, let me get the bass.

Actually, okay, let me try the synth.

I feel a lot of anxiety, good anxiety, because I feel like when you're working on a song in the stages that like it is or isn't going to launch is a really anxious moment.

Positive anxiety, but like, I'm just like not thinking about my body, I'm not thinking about like breathing, I'm not thinking about anything.

Like, literally, I could be like knocked into something.

I just need to hear something coming out of the speakers that is proof of life.

You know, I'd be doing things, I'm doing things, then maybe I'd do something, and then everyone would kind of stop what they're doing and be like, what's that?

Like, the guitar riff in the intro.

Yeah.

And I was like, that's so cool.

Any great song that I've ever grown up loving has this iconic musical riff that you get so excited the second you hear that riff, you're like, oh, my favorite song's about to start.

And it's that for me.

But essentially, you're looking for that all the time.

Just these things that are going to put the song in its best outfit.

And for please, it was like...

It was somewhere between singer-songwriter, country song, band, and a bar with a steady drumbeat.

and then, like, the wobbly synths.

I was like, if I can just get it right, then I know Sabrina and Amy are gonna go to the moon with it.

I know I have good judgment, I know I have good taste.

It's funny and it's ironic that only I feel that way.

I promise them that you're different, and everyone makes mistakes, but just don't.

I got really excited with the way the lyrics sounded because I think Sabrina's voice is incredibly modern and incredibly classic at the same time.

And I think that there's something about very directly playing with both of those things, quite literally.

Like, here's an acoustic guitar and a live drum, which could have been played in 1972 or 2050.

Please, please, please don't prove I'm right.

But then all of a sudden, here's Sabrina talking about something that's right now, but then she's also doing a run that's incredibly classic.

But then we add a synth that feels like incredibly shocking.

We're specifically clashing extremely modern and extremely classic things, but almost in an absurd way the way they're happening.

Please, please, please.

I think the thing I always struggled with since I was young and since I started writing songs was that I craved wanting to be able to accomplish kind of multiple things at once and still have it be something that felt fluid.

And it's really cool to have someone understand that.

I remember when I was 12, which is so crazy, but I signed with my label when I was 12, like a crazy person.

Wow.

And I remember it was just such a such a thing of like having to know your genre and stay in that lane.

And like, it was almost as if they expected every song to sound like that same thing.

And that was really hard for me for a really long time.

That was why, when I did start making music, I remember always wanting to kind of just be like, well, I have to make the same song, you know what I mean?

Like, I want to make something that feels like multifaceted and something that feels different.

I heard that you're an actor, so act like a stand-up guy.

Whatever devil's inside you, don't let them out tonight.

I tell them it's just your culture, and everyone rolls their eyes.

Yeah, I

know.

The women I grew up idolizing, even my mother, always had that, let me give it to him straight, mentality.

And I love when I can reflect that in something that can be sung so sweetly and then can be blunt two seconds later.

I felt bad for the narrator and scared of her.

Thanks.

And I liked that, the very specific tone that I think I get a lot from Dolly, where I'm like, oh, that's so sad, but also I'm not about to fuck with you.

I mean, she's queen of telling the gods honest truth.

And then you're sort of like, wait, did that just come out of that

sweet woman?

Like, what's going on?

And the most exciting part was the second verse because that was literally, Amy and I wrote that, I mean, five minutes while you were changing the key.

Well, that was one of those great accidents where it's like we were, we're fucking around with the key.

We're like, where is this best?

And so then we had these like two versions of the songs in two different keys.

And it's very odd.

But I think it works so great because the lyrics that Sabrina has in the second verse is a dream.

It's like, it's not reality.

It's like an idea.

Yeah.

It's like she's like having this fantasy.

What if we did this?

What if we stayed inside?

What if we started the ceiling fan?

That could be nice.

So the chords like lift into this place that feels suspended from the grounding reality songs in A.

Please, please, please.

But then all of a sudden you're in C.

Well, I have a fun idea, babe.

Maybe just stay inside.

I know you're craving some fresh air, but the ceiling fan is so nice.

It's not a natural modulation.

And then it's it's even more crazy because then at that point you would stay in the modulated key for the chorus but then we go back down to a which is another insane choice please please please don't prove i'm right

i realized the reason why it works is because then it's like the bubbles burst and we're back in reality she's like no we're back at the table with her and she's saying please please please you know don't embarrass me and That was one of those things that in the room where we were like, why is this fucking working?

I think super important to note, it's all happening at lightning speed

like we weren't thinking so in depth of no the meaning behind all of these choices and why they worked in the moment after no they made us laugh they just made us laugh they made us scream they made us dance around the room and that was that was why we knew that it was what it needed to be the only thing that was something that i felt like was a little more carefully crafted was from heartbreak is one thing my ego is another i beg you don't embarrass me motherfucker heartbreak is one thing my ego is another

I beg you don't embarrass me, motherfucker.

Hey, when did you come up with motherfucker?

Because that's something I don't remember.

You blacked out?

I just, I remember, like, I can remember you going, please, and thinking to myself, like, oh, that's great.

But I don't remember the moment.

where you were like, motherfucker.

And I want to.

Well, we had heartbreak is one thing, my ego is another, because that's something that I said earlier that day.

Which I think is always how great things happen.

But like so many of the lyrics in those songs are literal things that you were saying in conversation.

If you think about that, it's actually truly just a conversation with myself.

And that melody is such like a little like rainbow.

Like it literally just goes,

and then motherfucker came out.

like an ad-lib.

It literally just came out as we were finding the melody because initially we were ending that melody a lot higher.

It never went down a motherfucker until we kind of just were like, let's push it.

Let's see how far we can, we can start up here and then super low.

And it just was, it was so necessary for that little hic and me.

And I think these were all day one vocals.

I think it's so cool to hear that these are day one vocals because there are choices that you're making in terms of when you go from singing to talking.

And, you know, there's even just one of my favorite moments is the note.

on stand-up guy, the way you change the, let me just play this part.

I heard that you're an actor, so act like a stand-up guy, whatever devil.

Just that stand-up, the little

note change there, which is not in the first time that you do it.

There are just little touches and flourishes.

It's very hard to predict where you're going to go.

So I was wondering, like, is that something that, you know, you just like develop a ton in the offseason so that when it comes time to record on the day, you're going to go wherever you want?

Or are these things that just sort of like happened instinctively?

And if you had thought about them more, maybe you would have done something differently.

I'm dying to hear, I'm over there with him.

I'm dying to hear this.

Well, you, I feel like there's certain things that I feel really specific about being more methodical, and then other things that feel like they need to be born out of a take where I'm just not thinking, and I just do it, and I just try things.

So, the first thing that you just pointed out, like, that was just me playing off of what Jack was playing.

I heard that you're an actor, so act like a stand-up guy, whatever devil's inside so that wasn't something that was thought of or thought through it was just a choice in the moment so much of it is just like the initial instinct or or the way that i would really say those things in real life blended into the way i would sing them but also a lot of a lot of my favorite thing to do in songs is act yeah and i think that's really helped me in my songwriting is to perform the song to actually picture having these conversations with this person as i'm singing it because then i can be as expressive or sarcastic and my voice can hit notes that it would hit conversationally it just as much as, you know, I'm hitting the notes that I'm meant to be singing.

And one thing to add to that about day one takes is like the more you know a song, the less like afraid you are of it, whether you literally know it or whether you can just feel it.

Sabrina's singing the song for the first time, second time she's ever sung the song.

There's no amount of surgery you could do to remove that vulnerability.

The recording will live forever with this take of this person who's like, you know what?

Fuck it.

I'm going to just sing this chorus.

And your like soul can feel like the person like diving off the cliff and singing that chorus and i think that resonates to people heartbreak is one thing my ego is another i beg you don't embarrass me motherfucker

please please please

more with sabrina carpenter and jack antonoff after this

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I'd love to listen to this second verse with you because I want to ask you about the back and forth that you do with your backing vocals here.

Well, I have a fun idea, babe.

Maybe just stay inside.

I know you're craving some fresh air, but the ceiling fan is so nice

now we could live so happily

no one knows that you're with me i'm just kidding but really kind of

okay i want to

tell me about this part he's having fun amy's laughing the back like it's just like there's like a little bit of truth to the joke i mean the background vocals in this song are some of my favorite things I've ever made.

And like, you kind of just try shit, you throw it at the wall, and sometimes it's too much and sometimes it's just enough and that was kind of one of those moments and it just adds to the story and it makes it feel like a real person heartbreak is heartbreak

ego

another

I got really excited with how perfect her voice is I was like there's a lot of space here to have the song feel kind of drunk around her because she's so rock solid and the the way she harmonizes with herself is like so masterful and perfect so it's like it became about duality.

It's like you have the Lindrum being very steady.

And then you have a live drum playing around it.

The more steady the Lindrum was, the more I loosened up my guitar picking.

I really wanted you to hear like the person in the room.

It sounds like Sabrina with a band.

Please, please, please, don't prove

I mean that was my favorite thing about it.

I remember him playing drums live and just like watching him go ham and it was just one of my favorite things about Jack in general but like it gives this song so much more life and it feels like you're hearing a real person sing about a real life experience when you can kind of hear like the little imperfections that he leaves in intentionally.

like the room noise and just like the sound of him actually playing the instruments and like banging on keys a little too hard.

Just those little things that really add so much character as opposed to everything being kind of so perfect.

It's like this drunk feeling, but in the best way.

It's like you're tipsy, but it's a good feeling.

Yeah, like I always want that feeling like right on the edge.

Especially about a song like this, especially about a song that was like desperately comical and you're sort of needing to like laugh while you're talking about something that you could probably cry about or be angry at.

And it's all those emotions.

And you kind of want it to reflect in not only the chords, but the way that they're being played.

Yeah, I'd love to listen to these guitars, Jack, that you're playing.

Like, even that, Sabrina, like you're saying, the beginning of this, the track isn't just like coming in clean.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'd like to point out because there might be someone listening right now that might be like, a little pitchy, my guy.

It's very intentional because tell them.

Well, I would like to.

So when you have a singer singer that is pitch fucking perfect, and very few are, but Sabrina is, it leaves so much space to play around.

I'm playing the guitar pretty hard and kind of bending, you know, my fingers a lot.

So they bend a little bit out of tune, but what it does is it frames the things that are pitch perfect, which you always want.

So that's why I like those takes not to be too clean or like perfectly in tune, because if every instrument is perfect in tune, then it can get a little bit like factory-made.

I I think that there's a feeling in pop music, and especially really commercially successful pop music, that everything must have gone through a million hands and a million producers and gotten quantized and tuned within an inch of its life so that it can be as

accessible as possible for the largest number of people as possible.

And I feel like this song is a very clear example of that not being the case.

Well, that's just, that's just like a school of thought.

Like there's basically two schools of thought.

Essentially, you think people are smart or you think people are stupid.

Right?

If you think people are stupid and you assume the worst of them, then you will dumb things down and clean it up and

make it out of chemicals and serve them garbage.

Right.

But I think people are brilliant and anyone I've ever been in the room with shares that belief.

So we're sitting there.

pushing ourselves to the absolute brink to make something as interesting or beautiful or evocative or sonically fascinating as humanly possible.

So it's not a rejection to pop culture or pop music.

We're not sitting there being like, let's make it weird and bend these notes so it freaks people out.

It's literally, let's play it like this, let's sing it like this, let's do it like this because this will be the most emotionally resonant.

I just know from personal experience, because there were so many years, I think, where I was sort of told, this is what people want.

This is what people are looking for.

And then, I mean, literally, if you tell me that, I will go do the opposite because it's pretty much always proven to be correct.

And I don't do that in a rebellious way.

I do it in a way to preserve my sanity, my own artistry, or what will keep me unique to myself.

Jack, you kind of set up this tension between the locked-in groove of the Lind drum and then the way you're playing the acoustic guitars.

Where in that continuum were you thinking about the synthesizers?

Were you thinking of them as being an element that would be more locked in?

Or did you want to have those electronic elements feel human as well?

I really thought a lot about the time period of music when things like the Jupiter, the Juno were entering rooms for the first time.

The synthesizers you were using?

Yeah, one thing I love about like ELO or certain Beatles recordings or this time period is like...

Someone's coming in with something, no one knows how to work it.

They plug it in and they're just like, holy shit.

And they're messing with it until they hear something that just clicks.

And something about this song made me want to play synth on it.

And to me, the synth is one of the more human things because it's played so like strange.

It's like a man fighting with the instrument.

I just thought, what if I create these like bubbling sounds around Sabrina's voice?

Please, please, please don't bring me to tears when I just did my makeup so much.

We recorded this rather quickly, but I think over time it grew.

And so we found new things to add to it after that first initial day.

I definitely knew from the moment that I left that I wanted a bridge, but I think we ran out of time that day.

I think someone had a dinner.

It always happens.

Someone?

Why are you looking at me?

It wasn't me.

Because no one else is in this room right now.

But just

it wasn't.

Probably was, honestly.

Yeah, I think you had a dinner.

I I might have had a dinner that night.

But either way, I think what's really exciting for me, too, is taking space from a song and being able to sit with it for a couple weeks.

Or in this case, I think it was probably about a month later we were able to get in.

We finished the bridge in Los Angeles here at Jack's studio.

That was scary.

I remember you were hesitant about it.

I was freaking out.

Okay, so you have to understand.

We have the whole song except the bridge slash outro.

And everyone was like, this is a little short.

And it was clear that the song could have used one more thing, but it was like such a house of cards that I was pretty freaked out.

But you really were like, I got this, we're doing this.

I knew that there was more to say, and I also knew that the journey the song takes you on was already so

we were soaring that it was like, why not?

Let's see if we can soar a little higher.

And if we do and we land, then we just made something even better.

If you wanna go in this stupid, don't do it in fun of me.

You want to

yeah, and then that was also just I've definitely said this to many men in my life.

If you want to go and be stupid, don't do it in front of me.

And I've said to many people, if you don't want to cry to my music, don't make me hate you prolifically.

If you don't want to cry to my music, don't make me hate you prolifically.

That I think right there is the genius of Sabrina.

Those two lines.

The first one is absolutely beautiful, heartbreaking.

Everyone knows it.

Everyone's felt it.

The artist saying something better than you could ever say it.

And then the second one is that and also so funny.

And a big thing that working with Sabrina reminds me of is that all my favorite artists know exactly when to be funny because then it makes the really sad line that much more sad.

Please, please, please,

please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

I remember being so excited because I feel like that song was a song that I'd waited my whole life to make.

Same.

And genuinely, I still feel that way.

Well, I was wondering, Sabrina, if you had to describe what this song was to someone who hasn't heard it yet, what would you tell them?

Like, what's this song about?

It's sort of a woman kind of already knowing what she's in for and just kind of saying it out loud so she can kind of hold accountability for herself at the end of the day.

Like, she already knows she's going to get into trouble, so she might as well just own it.

And I think that for me, I feel that way anytime I enter a relationship or anytime I start falling for somebody.

I know that love and pain always go hand in hand.

And so I think you're kind of mentally preparing yourself to be like, you know what?

I'm just going to enjoy this while I'm in it because it's only a matter of time before they do something stupid or they say something to piss you off.

And that's just the reality of relationships.

This is a comical reoccurrence in my life and a lot of my friends' lives.

So I think it's more about that honesty with yourself and just allowing yourself not to take it too seriously, even though it might be.

it might be actually hurting you.

Do you find that the fact that you're drawing from multiple experiences, do do you start to think that it's a type of relationship that you're drawn to, or this is just universal no matter who you're in a relationship with?

Well, now we're getting into therapy territory.

And if you're asking if this is a common thread in my life, I would say that this one is nearly autobiographical.

So it's hard to get it twisted, I guess.

And now, here's Please, Please, Please by Sabrina Carpenter in its entirety.

I know I have good judgment, I know I have good taste.

It's funny and it's ironic that only I feel that way.

I promise them that you're different

and everyone makes mistakes, but just don't

I heard that you're an actor, so act like a stand-up guy.

Whatever devil's inside you, don't let them out tonight.

I tell them it's just your culture, and everyone rolls their eyes.

Yeah, I

know.

All I'm asking, baby,

please, please, please, don't prove I'm right.

Please, please, please don't bring me to tears.

When I just did my makeup so nice,

heartbreak is one thing, my ego's another.

I beg you, don't embarrass me, motherfucker.

Please, please, please.

I have a fun idea, babe.

Maybe just stay inside.

I know you're craving some fresh air, but the ceiling fan is so nice.

And we could live so happily.

If no one knows that you're with me, I'm just kidding.

But really,

really,

really,

don't prove a lie.

Please, please, please, don't bring me to tears.

When I just did my makeup size,

heartbreak is water thing, my angles and manler.

I beg you, don't embarrass me, motherfucker.

Please, please, please.

If you wanna go and be stupid, stupid, don't do it in front of me.

If you don't wanna cry to my music, don't make me hate you prolificly.

Please, please, please,

please, please, please.

Please, please, please, please.

To learn more, visit songexploder.net.

You'll find links to buy or stream, please, please, please.

And you can watch the music video.

This episode was produced by Craig Ely, Theo Balcom, Kathleen Smith, Mary Dolan, and myself.

Our production assistant is Tiger Biscup.

The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo.

This is the last episode of the year, and I just want to thank you for listening, and I want to thank all the artists who have been on the show this year.

And I really want to thank Craig, Theo, Kathleen, Mary, Tiger, and Carlos, all my friends who have worked so hard on the podcast with me.

Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts.

You can learn more about all of our shows at radiotopia.fm.

And if you'd like to hear more from me, you can sign up for my newsletter.

You can find a link to it on the Song Exploder website.

You can also follow me and Song Exploder on Instagram.

And if you want to support the show another way, you can get Song Exploder merch, which includes a t-shirt, sweatshirt, tank top, a whole bunch of different options, at songexploder.net/slash shirt.

I'm Rishi Kesh Hiraway.

Thanks for listening.

Radiotopia

from PRX.

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