Gracie Abrams - I Love You, I'm Sorry

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This episode contains explicit language.

Gracie Abrams is a singer and songwriter from Los Angeles.

She started putting out music in 2020, and in June 2024, she put out her second album, The Secret of Us.

She was nominated for a Grammy for Best New Artist, and this year she's up for another Grammy for Best Duo Performance for her collaboration with Taylor Swift.

But for this episode, I talked to Gracie about her song, I Love You, I'm Sorry.

It was produced by Aaron Dessner at Long Pond Studio in upstate New York, and it was co-written with Audrey Hobart.

Coming up, you'll hear the isolated tracks from the studio recording, but you'll also get to hear a lot of the voice memos that Gracie recorded during the writing process.

I think it's so nice to have these raw moments documented because, as you'll hear, they give you an insight not just into the song, but into the relationship that Gracie and her co-writer Audrey have as friends.

I love you, I'm sorry.

Okay, I'm recording on my side.

We're recording as well.

Great.

Ready?

I'm a very open book, so I'm ready to get into all of it.

Let's start at the beginning.

Do you happen to remember the exact moment when the idea for this song first came to you?

Oh, yeah.

I had just made a plan to hang and talk with my ex-boyfriend who I used to write lots of songs about.

And at this point, was he already your ex?

Yeah, it had been like two years, like having never run into each other, you know, no real

communication.

I had just felt so much, not even residual love, but just like real love for somebody who was so significant in my life and such a formative partner.

And I think having had a couple years of

space, there was more room than ever for not only like reflecting on all that was, but also just kind of fantasizing about a world in which everything's cool between us.

Was there something that prompted this conversation that you were going to have with your ex?

Was there an event or something?

How did it end up being that you were going to reconnect?

We were both going to be...

home around the holidays and it wasn't some dramatic thing, but it was very significant for me to reconnect at all.

Audrey Hobart, who's my roommate and dear friend, and co-writer on I Love You, I'm Sorry, and on a handful of other songs on the album, she and I were sitting outside in our like tiny courtyard situation, and I just had the first line of the song come into my head immediately.

And it was one of those moments where we're like in the middle of a conversation,

and I told Audrey, hold on, ran inside, grabbed the guitar, and that was the start of it.

Two or three

I just had two Augusts ago in my head immediately with the chords.

There was something very nostalgic about those chords and it was around Christmas time because we had our Christmas tree in the house and I remember it feeling very like holiday spirit charged through the house, which helped when kind of being all like sappy.

That was all I had in my head initially.

And I think, I think there's a huge chance if I had started that by myself, I wouldn't have actually ended up believing in it much.

But with Audrey and I, it's like, I remember after starting it, writing the first bit, she was so like, fuck yes, like let's chase it.

She really brought the energy when I was more so just like nostalgic and a little blue.

Yeah, I find that a lot of times I will throw an idea away immediately after writing it.

But if I write with somebody else and if they sing it back,

then suddenly I'm like, oh, well, it's nice when you sing it.

And I don't know what, is it a self-esteem thing?

I don't know.

I think there's, there is something that will never not feel slightly embarrassing or like cringe about putting my feelings to song.

Like, who do I think I am, even?

But having somebody else in the room to back you, yeah, it makes a huge difference.

Yeah, and especially when it's someone who can say, I think that's a good line.

And what about this for the next line?

Totally.

Find someone to date.

I just think, and I'll be something and find someone

to date.

And that's just the way it goes.

I'll be a hoe.

I'll find someone to date.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll make it known and find someone to date.

Ooh.

Wait, write that down.

Who's saying ooh there?

Audrey.

I said I'll make it known.

She goes, ooh.

That's what I mean.

It's like the nod of like, that's kind of funny.

That's kind of a thing.

It's so funny to listen back.

Like in my head, there was never an alternative lyric to any of these.

I'm like, everything felt like it just came out.

But then listening back, I'm like, ew, find someone to date is terrible.

Thank God we didn't keep that.

Yeah, yeah.

Can you tell me more about your relationship with Audrey?

How did you end up writing songs together?

We met when we were 10 years old and then went to middle school together and we were on the same bus to school.

And so we'd sit with each other and music was always kind of the core of our relationship.

Like her mom is like, she's just like the coolest voice to me.

And I remember like growing up, always hearing her sing and being so impressed that she could like harmonize just like immediately.

And Audrey kind of taught me how to do that when we were really little.

And I taught her how to hold a melody when someone's like harmonizing, and we sit on the bus and just do that.

And as we grew up, we never ever even talked about writing music together.

But when we moved in together two years ago, it just started happening one day because we kind of like riff off of each other so much.

But what she brings out in me is a kind of

self-assuredness and confidence.

It was a side of my personality that I have struggled to infuse into my music.

And I was really grateful to her for that specifically.

And how different is your songwriting conversation from your regular conversation?

It's not all that different.

I think what's really cool about writing with somebody that you do know so well, no one's feelings are getting hurt.

So it's very blunt and very fast as a result.

We're oftentimes going with the line that makes us laugh the hardest.

And that's what kept it feeling so conversational the whole time is we were really just like making each other laugh in the face of big, uncomfortable, new adult feelings.

But I think it's funny, like even, you know, for this, when I was listening back to our voice memos,

there are so many moments where we will say the same thing at the same time.

That doesn't mean we always land on that or keep it, but yeah, I think something happens cognitively with the two of us where we are on the same page often.

But it's okay.

Yeah, but it's okay, for you.

Like, and you won't be here, but that's okay.

Like, or like, and

I might, I'm, like, I might not feel real.

Like, like, maybe, like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

I literally love I might not feel real.

But it's okay.

But it's okay.

Yeah.

It's sick.

One of the things I love in one of the voice memos you sent me, there's a little exchange between you and Audrey that's like...

Let's

watch the sunset on the way.

All the way here.

That's sick.

That's great.

And it's real.

And it's real.

So funny.

So can you tell me about that?

What was the real part of that?

The real part was

my family.

My family is from Maine and my grandparents live live on a lake in Maine that I have grown up.

It's just like a very significant place in my life.

And anybody who knows me knows that that is where I run away to and where I think about everything too

hard.

Can I ask you more about the sense of humor between you two?

Yeah.

Because it's so much easier to laugh with a friend, but it's hard to laugh just by yourself.

And especially if you're trying to write a song that is emotionally true, it might be hard to squeeze jokes into it or just, you know, things that are funny.

Is this the sort of thing that can only emerge in that context with Audrey?

The thing, one of the things that's so magical about Audrey is like, I think she is somebody that like...

in the greatest way, talks to herself a lot, makes herself laugh a lot.

So I think like I bring less of that to the table when I'm by myself.

But I think it's one of the things that I've always valued about our friendship is that in the face of tough feelings, we're never not laughing somewhere.

I'd love to ask you about the bridge for this song because it feels so different from the verse and the chorus.

I think most of the bridges on this album are like the kind of manic thought perspective, kind of like just going off, like rattling quite quickly.

And I definitely wanted like rhythmically a change to happen.

Something curse.

A habit to kick an age-old curse.

When I'm writing lyrics and recording a voice memo, it's like so rarely actually in a speaking voice or a singing voice is it's like really ugly, horrible like in between like mumbling where I'm not even enunciating

I think it's like a mouthfeel thing maybe that I do that.

I don't know what the fuck.

It's so horrible.

What do you what do you mean a mouthfeel thing?

Just like how a word like sort of sits in your mouth

is stupid, but it's I'm always so embarrassed.

No, I like that.

I think you're right.

I see what you're saying.

You were being very generous that you're saying you know what I mean.

No, I think because you don't just have to consider what the word means and how it relates to whatever the lyric is before, but you have to think about the actual,

I think mouthfeel is the right word, right?

Yeah.

So, there's another voice memo that I have from you that is basically a demo of the whole song.

And it's not just you singing, it's you and Audrey both singing.

Yes.

I tend to laugh whenever I'm side to stare at the crash.

It actually works, making amends.

The shit never ends.

I'm wrong again.

It's just the way

life

goes.

Joy riding down.

Okay, so that moment where at the end of the bridge she goes up to wrong again,

how much thought and conversation had gone into that?

Or was that just something that she just did?

Pure riff.

Really?

Yeah, literally, yeah.

This was the first time that I was writing with a friend who has a fucking amazing voice, whose personality is more extroverted than mine is when I'm alone, who like when we are recording, will

go off like she did in this voice memo, and that you know, inspires me.

And I had not been somebody that, like, even considered being more extroverted with my vocals.

I'm wrong again, wrong again.

The way

life goes, joy riding down

our

road lay on the horn to

prove that it haunts me.

I love you, I'm sorry the way

life

goes.

I wanna speak in code.

Hope that I don't won't make it work.

My conversation with Gracie Abrams continues after this.

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So after you finished writing the song, how did you end up working with Aaron Dessner as the producer?

I had been a fan of the National since I was like 11 years old.

Like as soon as I got an iPod, I was listening to the National all the time.

And I think it was like kind of that pre-teen and then like teen angst, you know, where their sad dad thing like that to me as a 12-year-old girl.

For some reason, as a 12-year-old girl, yeah, like really hit.

So I was a huge fan for years and years and years.

Who's playing this guitar part?

Aaron is.

I'm curious why that is, because you play the guitar in the demo.

So why did you have him play the guitar part?

He's a fucking genius at guitar.

He is so good, you know, for the sake of time, which we didn't have much of.

I was like,

you'll nail this the first time, and then we can build the rest of the world.

I knew I wanted it to stay on acoustic guitar.

I knew I wanted lap steel.

I wanted it to feel full and warm.

Two August ago,

I told the truth, though, but you didn't like it.

You went home.

You're in your beds, I'm by the gate.

So how does the story unfold in this first verse?

I came to this person with feelings that were real.

It didn't align with maybe what they wanted or expected.

They drove away.

I stayed at home.

And then I had this petty

line in the song just

we're not together you go alone to all these events to all these dinners all these things like you're primed for this kind of group of people this environment you're wildly charming it works but like I'm over here judging it like a dick

Now you go alone charm all the people you train for you mean well but aim low

that's a great vicious line you mean well but aim low.

That's brutal.

That's fucked up.

That's the petty part.

And then immediately I was just like, okay, it would be nice if we can make this song feel like there are chapters to it where it's like, we're not just living in one tiny moment, but we're like past, present, future.

Two summers from now,

we'll have been talking, but not all that often.

We're cool now.

I'll be on a boat,

you're on a plane,

going

somewhere same.

I'll be on a boat, you're on a plane, going somewhere, same is one of my favorite parts of the song.

I just like the concept of being softer with each other and having our own lives, and they are separate.

Cause that's just the way

life goes.

I push my luck, it

shows.

Thankful you don't send someone to kill me.

I know

that I hurt your feelings to an extent where I guarantee you like your best friend doesn't like me very much anymore.

I have been careless in the past about people's experiences on the other side of writing something.

And I was not until this past year careful with how it might feel to be on the receiving end of a song being about you.

And having seen the way that it makes people feel, I don't want to make people feel that way.

You have a song from a few years ago called I Miss You, I'm Sorry.

I feel like it can't be a coincidence that this song title follows the same sort of format.

So did you already have the idea that you wanted to fit the words, I love you, I'm sorry, into what you were writing?

So I had written I Miss You, I'm Sorry about the same person, wrote that song years ago.

And it kind of felt like the first time I had put a song out where I felt like the response from strangers was not just, oh, I like this, but when I looked at the, you know, comments under the YouTube video, it was like paragraphs of people's stories.

And that was really important for me.

And then after, for like years, I had written different versions of songs of like, I hate you, I'm sorry.

For some reason, something about that song just got in my head as like a, I like this as like a pillar.

Way

life

goes, I like to slam doors closed.

Trust me, I know it's always about me.

That's Audrey.

And there's more than one track of her vocals.

Yeah.

Two summers from now,

we'll have been talking, but not all that often.

I'm cool now.

When Audrey came to Long Pond, she'd just fucking rip, like rip in the vocal booth in a way where like Aaron and I and Bella, who's our brilliant engineer, would like be out in the room.

Like, holy shit, that's so fucking awesome.

And I'll have a drink, wistfully lean out my window and watch the sun set on the lake.

I might not feel real, but it's okay.

The thing that I love so much about singing with her is that, like, I think our voices do a thing together where it's like it almost feels like one thing versus two things.

I want synths on everything.

Especially because I think when Aaron and I are together, we can make things that feel very woodsy and very folky and like that they like belong to a witch.

So I wanted there to be some lift.

I wanted it to feel a little bit glittery and amidst the warmth of the guitar and the slide.

Because I feel like, you know, maybe people, when they're listening to the song, you're not necessarily hearing those things, but you feel them.

There are also these beautiful strings.

Oh, yeah.

Can you tell me about these parts?

Rob Moose,

genius.

I think it just brings a level of emotion that, you know, nothing else does.

Hope that I thought

won't make it about me.

Yeah, I'd like to work with him forever.

You said that it was around Christmas time when you wrote this.

What year was that?

2023.

Okay, so it hasn't been two summers.

No.

But how do you feel about the song now, looking back at it a year later?

It

feels

kind of like a tiny little prophecy, I think.

I remember

sending him the song when it was done.

I was just like, the sentiment is real.

Here you go.

I literally love you and I'm so sorry.

This is me fantasizing.

This is me like, desperately wanting to be in a place someday where it doesn't feel heavy and like knives every time there's an interaction.

It doesn't feel like too casual or too intense, it just is like

solid, easy, and like real friends.

And if I can be so presumptuous to say, I think it

I think

it's working.

I think it's working.

And now, here's I Love You, I'm Sorry by Gracie Abrams in its entirety.

Two August ago,

I told the truth, though, but you didn't like it.

You went home.

You're in your bands, I'm by the gate.

Now you go alone

Charm all the people you train for You mean well but aim low

And I'll make it known like I'm getting paid

That's just the way life

goes

I like to slam doors closed

Trust me, I know

it's always about me.

I love you, I'm sorry.

Two summers from now,

we'll have been talking, but not all that often.

We're cool now.

I'll be on a boat,

you're on a plane.

Going somewhere, same.

And I'll have a drink.

Wistfully lean out my window and watch the sun set on the lake.

I might not feel real,

but it's okay.

Cause that's just the way life goes.

I push my luck, it

shows.

Thankfully, you don't send someone to kill me.

I love you, I'm sorry.

You were the best, but you were the worst.

As sick as it sounds, I loved you first.

I was a dick, it is what it is.

I happen to kick the age-old curse.

I tend to laugh whenever I'm sad.

I stare at the crash, it actually works.

Making amends, the shit never ends.

I'm wrong again, wrong again.

The way life goes,

joy riding down

or

road.

Lay on the horn

to

prove that it haunts me.

I love you, I'm sorry.

The way

life

goes, I wanna speak in code.

Hope that I don't won't make it about

me.

I love you, I'm sorry.

To learn more, visit songexploder.net.

You'll find links to buy or stream I Love You, I'm Sorry.

And you can watch the music video, which was directed by Gracie's co-writer, Audrey Hobart.

This episode was produced by Craig Ely, Theo Balcombe, Kathleen Smith, Mary Dolan, and myself.

Our production assistant is Tiger Biscuit.

The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma and I made the show's theme music and logo.

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I'm Rashikesh Hiraway.

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