EP.231 - KERRY GODLIMAN

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin.

Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening.

I took my microphone and found some human folk.

Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man.

I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

Hey,

how you doing podcasts?

This is Adam Buxton reporting to you

from quite a cold Norfolk farm track

right at the beginning of November 2024.

It's the weekend before November the 5th.

Fireworks ahoy, literal and political.

By this time next week, we'll know what those crazy Americans will will have decided to do with their next four years.

But right here in Norfolk tonight we've got more pressing concerns especially because I'm out with Rosie Buxton, my best dog friend in the world, just about the best dog person you could ever meet, a whippet poodle cross who has in recent weeks been worried about coming out for walks because of the bird-scaring cannons.

But I'm happy to say that they are no longer in evidence.

And even though Rosie has some residual timidity about coming out for a walk, she was a little bit quaky as we left, she seems to be doing all right now.

And she bids you a warm hello.

I'm not bidding them nothing, I'm just hoping we get back before the fireworks.

Yes, fair enough.

We'll get back before the fireworks, Dodlegs.

Don't worry.

So in the spirit of keeping things tight, let me tell you a bit about podcast number 231, which features a rambling conversation.

This is a good old rambling, friendly conversation with British actor and stand-up comedian Kerry Godliman.

Here's a few Kerry facts for you.

Born in 1973 in Perivale, West London, Kerry trained at the Rose Bruford College of Theatre and Performance.

Her TV acting career began at the end of the 90s with the obligatory minor roles in Holby City, The Bill, and Casualty before she started to get more comedic parts around the mid-2000s on the relationship sketch show show Spoons for example and another sketch show Rush Hour.

That was where I first met Kerry.

She played my long-suffering wife in a series of sketches about a dad who is a music boar.

One of them was about

my character Rock Dad doing a family-friendly version of NWA's Fuck the Police as our young son sits in the back on his way to school and Kerry played his mum looking disapproving at the wheel.

Didn't really make the most of Kerry's acting skills in that one, but

what a sketch.

In 2007, Kerry had a small role in the Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant show Extras.

And in 2012, Ricky cast her again as a no-nonsense care home manager in his comedy drama Derek.

That was the role that introduced many viewers to Kerry Godliman, but her profile was raised even higher when Ricky cast her once again in a recurring role as his character's late wife in another internationally successful Gervaise joint Afterlife.

In the meantime, Kerry has also starred alongside writer and actor Lenny James in his 2018 Sky Atlantic thriller Save Me and the sequel Save Me 2 in 2022.

Kerry is also the star of Acorn TV's Whitstable Pearl, now in its third series, in which she plays restaurant owner turned private detective Pearl Nolan.

But that's just a handful of Kerry's many acting roles.

For the past couple of decades, she has also become an increasingly successful stand up comedian.

As I speak, Kerry is working on new material in a smattering of live work in progress appearances around the country.

And of course, she is a familiar face on all the finest TV panel shows, including The Taskmaster, which she won in twenty seventeen.

But we didn't talk about Taskmaster or Gervaise or any of that other stuff in our conversation, which was recorded face to face back in mid-October, just a few weeks ago of this year, 2024.

Instead, as parents of teenage children, we compared notes on the challenges of managing sibling rivalries and how best to impart wisdom and advice to our children despite being flawed human beings ourselves.

There was also some discussion of sex and sexy noises.

With reference to adult material, Lucy Kirkwood's 2020 TV drama set in the porn industry that Kerry appeared in, along with Haley Squires, Rupert Everett, and Phil Daniels.

We also talked about why we yearn to call a halt on the shitbits of technological progress and the dream of abandoning the scrollers and joining the Whittlers.

Plus, haunted violins, acting tips, and Kerry reveals her recent involvement with the sequel to one of the best-loved comedy films of all time.

But we started by checking in on Kerry's Wangxiety levels.

Back at the end for a bit more waffle, but right now with Kerry Godlyman.

Here we go.

Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.

We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that.

Come on, let's do the fat and have a ramble chat.

Post on your conversation.

Hope to find your talking as a bad.

From my point of view, the ideal guest is someone who's absolutely.

Yeah, of course.

And just

but then afterwards that person goes, oh fuck.

Well, sometimes there are people who don't and they just go like, ah, that's what I'm like.

Yeah.

Go for your life, use anything you want.

No, totally.

But they're pretty rare, I would say.

Yes, it's a funny thing, just

not knowing how to present yourself to the world when you're being relaxed and just chatting.

Because you want to be able to just go, oh, it doesn't really matter, does it?

It's just chatting.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, I mean, on the whole, I think, especially when it's relatively trivial stuff, which is

my bread and butter.

Yeah.

Then you can, then you are relaxed.

But of course, as soon as anything mildly controversial comes out,

then you do start trying to think, like, what would that sound like to another human being?

Yeah, and then you're in knots.

That happens.

But even when you do that, even when you are thinking, like, well, I better tread carefully here, you can never get it right.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's always some perspective you're not going to appreciate.

Totally.

It's sort of being tortured by the person that you wish you were.

Yep.

I mean do you have that person or are you fairly comfortable with yourself?

Mostly I'm all right with who I am but then it is in this world, this world of

whatever this is, what's this world where you're presenting your personality.

Entertainment slash self-promotion.

Yes.

Then I'm like, oh

Who are you?

And it can all get very strange, can't it?

Have you ever got in hot water before?

Have you ever had a dark moment where you thought, ah, I wasn't comfortable with that?

No, it isn't like extreme cancer phobia.

It is just

worrying about seeming like a wanker in a very trivial sort of sense.

It's just pretension and wankerdom.

Wankxiety.

Wanksiety.

That's the name of your next special.

Yeah.

So you were saying you are off to meet your kids.

I'm going to meet my kids after this.

You're going to the theatre.

We're going to the theatre.

Very good.

I know I feel quite smug about it.

Teenage kids.

Is that a regular thing?

It's well, it was free tickets, so I can dial down the smuggery.

Yeah.

Yeah, because they just offered them, which is a nice part of anxiety where you get offered free things.

You're not bothered.

I love those.

So yeah, taking the teenagers.

But I was just saying to you before that they've got to join me in town.

And I don't know how successful that's going to be.

Why?

Because.

Well, 17-year-old daughter, 14-year-old son, I wouldn't say they

love hanging out with each other

i mean i don't think they'll have a full-blown fight but she might face palm him into a hedge or something i don't know they can be a bit brittle yeah yeah well i'm glad to hear that oh really are yours yeah well they've got beyond it yeah which i'm really happy about it used to really stress me out yeah it does because you want your kids to get on yeah

because

Especially as I've grown up and I kind of wish that I had been closer to my brother and sister.

Yeah.

So I thought when I had children and my boys are a couple of years apart, I really wanted them to get on and have fun.

And did they?

No.

Not really.

It's awful, is it?

When you're like, just be nice to each other.

Be nice.

And then after a while, it starts really breaking your heart.

Yeah.

Like when they're mean to each other.

And you can see as well that especially the younger one at a certain age, he wanted to be liked so much.

He thought his older brother was the best.

Yeah, I think my son kind of really idolizes his big sister.

Yeah, but she having been a big sister, there's this thing that's been discovered now, this firstborn daughter thing.

I don't think I've made it up.

It's googleable, but it's a new area of paranoia: is if you're the firstborn daughter thing.

There are certain personality traits that are not necessarily all nice.

And I think I was a bit of a shit to my brother.

And I can see it sometimes with my daughter.

And I just think, oh, maybe it's karmic because I was that person once.

but just pure, not disdain, but

no empathy at all, none.

And you just think, but can't you see you're breaking his heart?

Yeah.

Don't give a fuck.

I've pleaded occasionally, like, please just be, just be nice.

And it sounds so pathetic.

There's nothing you can do.

Nothing you can do.

Nothing you can do.

I'm here to tell you, I mean, maybe I'm speaking too soon, I don't know, but it's not like all their issues are sorted out, but my two boys are much, much kinder to each other now.

And you said they went away.

When I saw you before, you said they went away together, didn't you?

That's right, they went to Japan.

I mean, that's pretty lovely to have that sort of companionship.

Yeah, it's good.

They went off, they spent two weeks in Japan.

They had an amazing time,

but then, like, when they got back, there had definitely been some tension.

And we heard they were both like, yeah, that was amazing.

It was brilliant.

It was brilliant.

But when we drilled down into it, there was there was a few big old rows.

But you have to have those.

Exactly.

And what's the alternative?

Being on your own in Japan, which sounds a bit sadder and or being with a mate and you'd have had some beef with a mate anyway at least with your brother or sibly you are with family you can sort of experiment with emotions yeah and it not be the end of the world exactly that's and i don't want to do my kids

they do get on as well they can sometimes they've got shared enthusiasms and stuff like that and as they get older you can see you know them getting on more and more

Yeah, families.

Families.

But yes, hopefully all will be well and they'll meet me tonight.

It'll be great.

So you're going to go to the theatre.

What are you going to see?

The Lion King.

The Duchess of Malfi with Jodie Whittaker.

What's the Duchess of Malfi about?

Trust me, Adam.

I don't know.

I'm a total pleb.

I don't know.

I'm googling it.

The Duchess of Malfi.

I feel like it came up when I was studying drama.

The Duchess of Malfi is a Jacobean revenge tragedy.

Oh, God.

I'm not sure.

If it weren't for the Jodie Whittaker Doctor Who vibe, I'm not sure my kids would be.

Written by English dramatist John Webster.

Okay.

1612.

And wow, that'll be good.

A revenge tragedy.

Well,

I'm not brilliant with Jacobean.

Yeah.

Like, I can be a bit...

I'm not great with oldie-worldy stuff.

Have you done any of that stuff?

I did it at drama school.

Yeah.

I did all the Shakespearean stuff.

And you've worked with a very well-respected playwright as well.

Adult material was written by...

Oh, Lucy

Lucy Kirkwood.

Yeah she's extraordinary.

So this is adult material which came out in 2020

and was about the porn industry.

That's right.

A four-part drama and it was sort of I didn't see it.

No.

It was sort of funny was it or there was humour in it.

Yeah but it was it was pretty

it was a drama really with humour in it not a comedy with drama.

I'd say it was that way around.

I looked at a Guardian review it's by Lucy Mangan who loved it.

It won't satisfy moralistic blood and thunderers because it insists on the complexity of the industry and its makers.

But by the same token, if the blood and thunderers would like some comfort, it will engage instead of alienate its users and maybe confront them with a little more truth than they would normally, forgive me, swallow.

So that was...

Sounds like a Guardian review.

But she really liked it.

And it made me think like...

That totally passed me by in 2020.

Well, it was lockdown times, wasn't it?

Yeah, lockdown times.

and there was a lot of stuff fighting for your attention.

Plus, maybe I wouldn't have gravitated towards something like that because it would sound like, oh, this is going to be rough.

Well, I wouldn't sit and watch it with the kids

because it's pretty graphic in parts.

But

it's rather brilliant.

I think the writing is so good.

And Haley Squires is amazing.

It's a great story.

It's a workplace drama or a, I don't know, like a thriller, but it just is set in the porn industry.

What did you play?

I played a barrister and I represent her kind of for free because I feel so strongly about her circumstances.

And she's been mistreated on set.

She's been mistreated.

Well, she's trying to protect someone that has been mistreated on set and it's a kind of legal battle about her rights and her and the protection of this other character.

It's a lot about consent.

It's interesting, it was on around the same time as I May Destroy You, which were two quite similar, brilliant pieces of television around the theme of sort of consent and where the lines are, and just very thought-provoking.

Yeah.

Did you have any scenes with Rupert Everett?

I did.

Yeah, I did.

There was one scene in particular.

I think Jeff Daniels was in that scene.

And I think Rupert was in that scene.

It's quite a big scene, and it was a courtroom scene.

And

there was a lot, obviously, a lot of sex stuff in it.

And this is by the time that people were regularly having intimacy coordinators.

I think post-normal people, that's become a kind of given now on a set.

Really?

Oh, completely now, just a standard thing.

Sometimes to the irritation of some actors, they're like oh for christ's sake yeah we'll work it out you know we don't need to have a you know but it was very necessary on this particular production because there was a lot of sex in it and porn sex as well so it was a particular type of sex that is performative and they wanted it to look as authentic as they could get it and then there were fantasy sequences as well and there was one scene in this courtroom where everybody was in it and haley's character sort of drifts off into her own imagination and she imagines everyone orgasming and it's meant to have worked into this crescendo where they're like build, like wanking themselves off and then building themselves up to orgasm.

And I thought everybody had to do it, and I was so relieved because the director was like, Oh, I don't think Kerry's character is in that section of the courtroom.

So I was like, Oh, thank fuck for that.

I've never been more relieved.

But they used a what you call it, an intimacy coach or choreographer, or whatever.

And she said to everyone, Right, I want you to imagine one to ten in wanking terms, and ten is orgasming, and one is starting off.

I will conduct you so that we can all build up together, and you so that you're absorbed in me and my direction, and not each other.

And whether you're normal, whether you're like wanking correctly, you're being appropriate masturbators.

So, it was all like built up, okay?

Let's take it to a four, and everyone's like,

Let's take it to a nine.

It was absolutely hilarious to watch, and everyone really went for it, and it looked great.

But I wonder how it would have been if she hadn't been there to conduct it.

It was the weirdest thing to watch a wank

conductor building everyone up in secret, like together.

But people, they weren't nude.

No.

No, they were just voting.

They were meant to be just masturbating

in this fantasy in a courtroom, including the judge and all the other barristers.

All the other ones.

I don't know how I've swerved this.

Bloody hell.

That's a weird day's work.

Yeah, definitely.

I would have been in trouble.

I guess I would have just...

Well, I think everyone was a bit anxious about it.

But you just go for kind of a cliché of what sex noises are, right?

Yeah, totally.

But you'd be absorbed in what other people were doing, wouldn't you?

Be like, oh, they, is that all?

Oh, you're doing it.

Okay, you're doing it like that.

Yeah, well, you've got weird sex noises.

You're gonna have

your eyes closed or open, or mouth open or closed.

You make those noises, or grunting, grunting.

Okay, we're going with that.

Thank you.

Lots of thank you.

Thank you very much.

Exactly.

You wouldn't know what to do.

So she was there to help.

I'm sorry.

This may be too intimate a question, but are you a vocalizer?

Oh, that is too intimate.

Yeah, it is too intimate.

I thought I'd try.

I thought I'd try asking.

I mean, I can tell you that I'm very quiet, but that's because I'm an ex-board.

Creepily so?

Well, it's because I'm an ex-boarding school boy.

Oh, so quiet, wanks.

Yeah, boy.

Yeah.

That's one thing they teach you.

Be quiet.

While you're watching.

Yeah, there's no loud masturbation masturbation.

but then even if you're not at boarding school you're not going to be grunting and panting in earshot of your mum and dad and siblings are you

that's a good point but then when you're in a consensual relationship later on in your life and i mean obviously i i've never seen porn i've only ever seen it with an intimacy coordinator standing by

and when i and that was for some research that i had to do but when i did see that porn i did see some people really going for it on the vocalization Right, but then is that performative front?

That's porn, isn't it?

I don't know.

I mean, but you do hear people in hotels sometimes.

You're right, you do.

And you do just think, what are you doing?

Yeah, and don't you know that I'm on the other side of this

pool?

Yeah.

I would be mortified.

Oh, God, absolutely.

I think it's good because people should feel free and uninhibited.

I am.

Yeah.

I feel inhibited, but I'm very happy there are people.

And they should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want even if it's really weird but also you know that's part of intimacy though isn't it is playing roles and exercising kind of so I'm told a version of yourself yeah trying out a version of yourself that you wouldn't necessarily share with people in other circumstances it's all good it's all probably good but I'm as long as it's okay you know as long as it's consensual and as long as no one gets hurt then you go for your life but

having said all that sex positivity etc

at the end of the day if I watch adult material I'd probably appreciate it and I'd probably agree with that Guardian review but I really don't think I would want my kids to go into the porn industry no I'd rather not than not and if that makes me a blood and thunderer then I apologize a moralistic blood and thunderer then I'm sorry that's fair enough My daughter follows a sex worker on Instagram that's a huge influencer and she was trying to to tell me, you know, and I was being a bit reactive and like, oh, I don't, you know, but

being very...

Yeah, that's not to say that I would ever impugn anyone's choice to work within that industry.

I don't know me either.

But I just was suddenly like, oh, but you're, you have my daughter's ear and she's a kid and da-da-da-da-da.

And I don't know.

And she was kind of like...

This person was an influencer.

So influencing my child.

And you just go, I don't know how comfortable I am with all of what you're saying, you know, and I don't want to shut people down from expression and blah, blah, blah.

But these, again, the sort of choppy waters of parenting, social media, your kids drifting into things

that maybe you'd rather they didn't, but you also want them to be not as uptight as you.

I don't know, all that.

And when I did adult material, and there was quite a lot of press around it and got myself into actually these conversations, I found that I was very ill-equipped to talk,

you know, brilliantly as a parent on it just in a state of panic a lot of the time of course i think most parents are i don't know any parents who've got all this sorted no i think the one route i sometimes wish i had gone down was to be much more of a autocrat and just say no you're not going to have any phones right i mean there have been times well my daughter was 13 in lockdown and all the rules we had just flew out the window because it was all so fucking miserable that it was like and their schooling was online and everything was online their whole life was online so suddenly you're like well now there's all bets are off that's right they're just permanently online it's like people who used to not have tvs when they were growing up yeah i don't like a tv in the bedroom but they've got their phone in their bedroom yeah i mean i think it's a legitimate choice if you're a parent and you say like um no we're not going to have screens of any kind and that's the environment we're going to grow up in that though it's not realistic i mean it isn't realistic it's much more of a struggle and there's no guarantee that it's necessarily going to have the outcome that you want.

Totally.

Because it might be that you end up with quite a disconnected and cranky kid.

Totally.

And the energy required to enforce it.

It makes me so irritated with the remorseless march of technology.

Like, there's absolutely nothing we can do just to say, no, we're okay for the moment.

We're fine.

Yeah, let's stop here.

This is fine, and I've got everything I need, and this is all brilliant, entertaining, and useful stuff, but really, we're fine.

We don't need more.

We don't need more.

It's the thing of just just feeling that you have to occupy every idle moment by looking at something

that I find distressing.

But you can get out of it.

I think they say it takes five days or something to lay down a new neural pathway so that you can form a different habit.

And if you forswear whatever it might be, booze, or if you just want to get into the habit of running or eating differently or whatever, apparently it takes about five days.

So the initial phase is just full of anxiety and just thinking, this is not going to work.

Do I really need to give this thing up?

Or do I really need to do that other thing anyway?

Is it going to make that much of a difference?

All those feelings you have when you're trying to change your behavior.

But then, much quicker than you imagine, it's fine.

Yeah.

I mean, I have had detoxes from it.

So I know, I know that it can...

And some of the things you just mentioned, like I don't drink very much anymore or, you know, things that are good for you, I'm better at managing or whatever.

But that is the one Achilles heel, which is like, oh, and then the hypocrisy of telling your kids what to do when you're

that is the worst feeling of parenthood

is just the massive hypocrisy.

Totally.

I quite like this teenage times.

It's not as hard as when they were little.

Little was exhausting.

Lovely, but exhausting.

It's really sleep deprivation.

I bet you did more work than I did as a parent.

Well, it was fairly evenly spread.

My husband did a lot.

Like, I was really gigging a lot when they were little, doing a lot of stand-up and driving around the country and stuff like that.

So, yeah, Ben was at home with them more than me, probably.

Yeah.

Oh, it is hard when they're young.

It's just because it's quite lonely, I think.

Yes, it's really isolating, yeah.

You really get you've been partying hard in the years

leading up to

having kids, and then it's a very different social world, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean, maybe you might get lucky and hang out with a load of really nice parents in the.

I met some nice people through the kids.

You're right, it it is just a different scene isn't it yeah i remember joining nct

really just to make friends like they sort of babble on about childbirth you're like

who's who's going to be my friend

you're paid to join a friendship group really how about the school gates how did you get on there um i i've made some nice friends through the gates i mean it's a funny old scene isn't it my brother hates it he always sort of finds he always says oh god it's a social nightmare if you're not that way inclined to just chit-chat and make small talk i don't know what it's like for dads it might be a bit different now.

But for mums, it was probably a bit more easygoing.

Yeah.

My wife is incredibly good at it.

It's definitely a life skill.

What about WhatsApp groups?

How are you feeling about those?

I don't, I don't participate.

A lot of dads don't, like the parent WhatsApp groups.

I've tweeted, well, I don't tweet very much now, X, but I did once post.

Dads are a bit quiet on the old WhatsApp groups, aren't they?

And the shit I got, Adam.

I've never had so much trolling in my life.

We're not wanted.

We're not going to be wanted on the WhatsApp goats.

I'm like, all right, all right, calm down.

Because I just think it's another form of social media.

Yeah, no, it absolutely is.

And it's all like, no, come on, don't be so annoying.

It's really useful.

It's not social media.

It's private.

You're not broadcasting to the whole world.

It's just if I didn't have WhatsApp, I wouldn't be able to organize all these important things.

Do you not do it at all?

Aren't you lucky that you can opt out?

No, I don't do it at all.

But every now and again i will notice that someone has messaged me and you just ignore it and i just ignore it because i think i'm sorry but i can't i can't deal with it i can't get into that yeah you know but then dads are a bit different i remember like my husband used to take like a book to softplay and i think

who the fuck are you

who takes a book to softplay while i'm sort of crawling around in all those piss smelling balls

do you know what i mean and he's like reading some highbrow piece of literature.

He's just wired up different.

That's impressive.

Now, I mean, I'm sure people just think I'm a massive bellend.

The people who are trying to message me on.

It's boundaries, though, innit?

You're protecting your boundaries.

I feel I am, but you know, this is all about privilege on some level, isn't it?

Because I have the privilege

of opting out.

I have the privilege of having a wife who is fully engaged with that world.

But as long as there's no resentment around it, then that's all right.

It doesn't seem to, I I mean, there's resentment from me about her using it so much.

I just say, you don't have to use it.

But you sort of do.

That's what she says.

I think you do.

I think you, I mean, you're, if you opt out of all of it, you are whittling in a wood.

I mean, like, you're off-grid, aren't you?

Right.

You're those people, and you're not,

you want your kids to exist in the world, you know, like we were going back to earlier.

It's like, The world has changed from when we were little.

So there is this kind of reality for them.

And if you take them out of it, you're probably doing them a bit of a disservice.

On the other hand, you may well not be.

And, you know, a lot of the most interesting people you meet are people who have had a very different upbringing.

And people who.

Oh, the Whittlers.

The Whittler family.

Yeah, the Whittling,

the spoon carvers.

Sometimes they can be weird, but sometimes they can be absolutely delightful.

And they're going to earn them smug about it.

That's what you're telling yourself.

They're like, oh, you're judging me.

I feel judged by you.

You want to be a Whittler, but you feel locked into the the scroll.

We only have wooden toys.

We feel locked in with the scroll toys.

We don't have any screens and we just have wooden toys.

Dream of escaping the scrollers to join the whittlers.

There's got to be more to life than just scrollers and whittlers.

There's got to be.

No,

I do lean towards the whittler.

I scroll whittlers.

Yeah, well,

that is the backbone of a lot of the internet is websites telling you how you're screwing up your life and how much simpler it could be and more whittly.

Yeah, definitely.

I follow all those people, the folky off-grid people.

I follow them

like a moron.

You follow all of them.

I hunt them down and I follow them.

They're all in the wood looking happy with themselves,

making toys out of twigs.

Yes, cooking their dinner on an open fire.

Well, good for them.

I do secretly aspire to be one of them.

Yeah.

I mean,

I would be fine.

I really would be fine.

If the solar flare came, it would be inconvenient for a few weeks.

But the thing is, then you're fine.

You adjust.

And you would be fine without any of these things.

Oh, I agree.

I know that in my heart.

I do.

They're just so addictive, though, aren't they?

They're just so fun.

I saw you talking to Russell,

one of the Russells.

Howard.

Howard.

Russell Howard.

I saw you talking about the fact that that

you were talking a little bit about devices and kids and stuff and you said that when your daughter was young, she asked you what tea bagging was.

Yeah.

Oh, that's bad.

Yeah, I mean, that's awkward.

Yeah.

And how did you deal with that?

I don't remember.

Shoda.

Googled it,

found some images on the dark web.

I don't remember.

This is heartbreaking, isn't it?

You just think, how do you protect them from it?

You've got to go and live in the woods in in a yurt and be a whittler.

Yeah, that's the only way.

But yeah, I can't remember what I said about the tea bagging.

I think you dodged it.

I think, if I remember rightly, she asked you if you knew what it was, and you said yes.

And that was the end of that.

Ask me another time.

Yeah, they're easy to manipulate, aren't they?

Dodge.

We're halfway through the podcast.

I think it's going really great.

The conversation's flowing like it would between a geezer and his mate.

Alright, mate.

Hello, geezer.

I'm pleased to see you.

Ooh, there's so much chemistry.

It's like a science lab of talking.

I'm interested in what you said.

Thank you.

There's fun chat and there's deep chat.

It's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking.

We are recording over in the east, quite near Brick Lane.

You called it what?

Hipster Disneyland?

Hipster Disneyland.

And Carrie,

you are a fan of the old vintage shop.

My mum had a stall at Port Bella Road when I was a kid.

So I have a kind of

hoarder in me that will get a bit overexcited around, you know, that smell of vintage glass?

Sure, yeah.

And it's all a bit like, get giddy.

It's the buy it but not wear it.

Is it the stuff they've sprayed on to try and get rid of the BO?

Moths, mothballs.

Like overly excited.

What are you looking for?

Well, what, I mean, anything, everything.

Sparkly things.

vintage sparkly things.

Just things that I so often buy things that I never wear.

You know, just get like, oh, that's, that's an amazing jacket or dress or whatever,

and then not wear it.

And then there's never the right time.

No, not really.

Or it doesn't fit, more's the point.

What did your mum do then?

What was her main gig?

Is she still with us, your mum?

Yes, she is, yeah.

She had a store not on Portobello Road, is it Goulburn Road that end?

And it was like an arcade, her and her then business partner, and and they used to sell 40s and 50s clothes.

So that would have been in the early 80s.

No, maybe late 70s.

I was quite little.

I used to go with her on a Saturday morning and sit there.

And there was a bloke who sold vinyl because it was one of those arcades.

And he sold vinyl at the end and he used to play all that sort of rockabilly music and stuff.

It's quite vivid memories.

Yeah.

Well, that's a good, vibrant scene.

Yeah, and I still love going around there.

It's not changed that much from when I was little, Portabella Road.

Whereas, say, maybe Camden has.

Like, Camden's really changed.

It feels quite touristy.

Yeah.

But Port Bella Road still feels like it did when I was a kid.

What about your dad?

Is he around still?

Yeah, my dad's around.

My dad's a violin maker.

Is he?

Yeah, it's a funny job, isn't it?

What's the name for that?

Is it Luth?

Eluthia's a guitar maker.

Is Eluthia also a violin maker?

I think it is, yes, yeah.

And he...

He's still working.

He still restores.

He doesn't make instruments anymore, but he restores them.

Wow.

Yeah, it's a mad job.

Amazing.

How did he get into that?

Is that an old family?

Not at all.

He went to a secondary modern school and went for an apprenticeship and got it

and they trained him.

So it's quite a 60s tale, isn't it?

That boomer.

And the premieres.

And you could have one, you could leave school in the morning and be employed by the afternoon.

A luthier in the afternoon.

Yeah.

Why?

Because he loved musical instruments.

No, not especially.

I mean, he just lucked out.

I think he became, maybe it's the Whittler,

the little

woodsman.

He definitely became very enthusiastic about it once he was doing it.

But prior to being employed by that company company that trained him i don't think there was any backstory there because that's the thing that i envy so much is a craft craft i wish i had a craft a trade yeah that generation

really had a good time didn't they those boomers because they just got apprenticeships or trades and they had regular employment in a way that doesn't seem to be true so much for young people now also you're not going to be replaced by ai if you are a luthier no i suspect not i think they're still one of the few instruments that are made.

Violins are made by, maybe you can get a machine to make them, but they won't.

Sure, but they're not going to sound the same.

No, a musician will probably prefer a handmade one.

And sometimes, what's really lovely is occasionally one of his old instruments comes back into his life.

So he'd have sold it 30 years ago, and then obviously it's been sold on since.

by various musicians and then someone will get in touch with him and go I've recently got a Martin Godliman instrument and I see that you're still doing repair work so would you like to come and repair it?

Oh wow.

And he just works in the shed in the back of the house.

Yeah, he just works in the garage.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, I think when he was a younger man, he did think it was beautiful and he would talk about it and be passionate about it.

Now he's like, None of the fucking violins.

Violins couldn't give a shit about violins.

I don't know why he doesn't retire.

He should just retire and call it a day.

He's done it for a long time.

Has he ever

played?

This is going to be a short tangent.

Has he ever reported a haunted instrument?

No.

There you go.

But he has told me that inside there's he's got a little old tobacco box full of these little balls of dust that are called mice and the dust that gathers inside and moves around and rolls about inside the chamber of the instrument.

And then occasionally he'll just get them out and put them in this little tobacco tin and they're called little mice.

Instrument dust mice.

It's really weird.

Is that his name for them or is that the trade name?

No, I think it might be a trade name.

Mice?

Yeah.

Wow.

Little bits of probably facial hair that's falling in through

those beautiful holes.

Yeah bits of skin and all sorts of stuff.

Dust and dust and mascaras.

And he keeps them because he feels like they're little remnants of.

I think that little slightly the people that played them, yeah.

Yeah, there's a little bit of, I don't know.

A little stradivarius bogey.

A little stradivarius bogey in there, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, it's an interesting, it's always, all my life it's been a thing that when you say like people ask what your dad does and i go my dad's a violin maker and he's always been like what and it is a really odd thing isn't it but he isn't particularly excitable about it yeah anymore now that's always been his sole right from school yeah yeah he trained up literally straight from school so he's not hang gliding in his spare time or anything like that no fishing i suppose is his only hobby a bit of angling And is your ma still in the rag trade?

She, no, she gave that all up when I was a kid.

So she's had lots of different jobs, but she trained to be an Alexander teacher.

Oh, that was like posture.

We weren't set up properly then.

Yes.

Yeah.

Posture and breathing, is that?

Posture and breathing and alignment and use of yourself.

Yes.

I remember when I was at drama school, one of my voice teachers looked me up and down and went, have you ever considered having Alexander lessons?

And I said, my mum is a teacher, actually.

And she was like, wow, not a very good one.

Well, you should really ask your mum to give you some.

But you don't take, you don't like doing what your mum and dad tell you to do, do you?

Absolute fucking.

So when my mum would go, drop your shoulder, be like, fuck off.

Don't take very kindly to being told what to do.

What was it my son said the other day?

My son is so, I mean, I love them all, but

my eldest is funny.

And he is like, he's quite musical.

He's writing some songs and they're good, but they're, to my ear, I had a note for it.

Oh, you should.

You've done that.

How did you do that?

I mean, I really had.

I bet he was like, don't.

I stopped myself for so long because I just thought this is never going to go well.

But then I just thought, it's such a simple note that I'm going to give him.

And if he just did this note, I know it would make all the difference.

How did it go?

You just need to make them simpler.

They don't need to be so complicated.

Okay.

Just walk before them.

Did he agree?

He was just like, meh.

And then he said, play me one of your ones again.

Oh, shit.

And he's like, I mean, are you happy with that

because if your kid does the thing you do like my daughter's started acting now and i will direct her so oh really yeah if she's doing like tapes self-tapes and monologues and it is hard to give your kids notes on a thing that you do yeah but you also have to understand that they have to express themselves and the baggage of a mum note or a dad note is not the same as a teacher note or a director note it's a different thing absolutely but the thing is that there are so many when i look back on stuff that I did when I was his age, I'm cringing constantly and I'm just thinking, like, where were the, why didn't anyone tell me?

Like, don't do that.

It's such a simple fix.

Yeah.

You can make it so much better if you did this, this, and this.

But then I think back, and I think, actually, maybe people did say it.

Maybe people did say it.

Yeah.

Because I find even the simplest note, like often I'll be saying to her, slow down.

It's the simplest note.

And I can remember that.

when all through you know me doing performing every note was always slow down

it is the note isn't it yeah it's like that's the difference between when people do public speaking and stuff the difference between someone who is just fine or obviously nervous like most people are and the difference between someone who everyone goes wow that was good is they just go slower slower that is like half the battle yeah and it feels so unnatural when you're up there to just it just feels so odd like you think god surely they think i've gone to sleep mid-thought yeah and it's like no that's the pace you should go at Yeah, that's a good note.

My son, though, he came back after a few days and nearly cried because it was such a sweet thing to do.

And he's like, Yeah, I tried writing a simpler song, and it is better.

Oh, well, there you go, it went in.

That's good, it did go in, but then again, I don't know if you're like this, but then again, I was sort of thinking, I shouldn't have even made the thing in the first place.

You know, I just got in his head, and just the fact that I was in his head, that made me feel bad.

But at the same time, he came to you with the material, he didn't come to me,

he didn't come to me.

I overheard it.

Okay.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

So he went, can I just say that?

I was walking through and I paused.

Ah, right.

You see, it's different if he offered it.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sure he appreciates that.

Oh, Matt.

The thing is, as a parent, half the battle as a parent is not to dwell on these moments because if you think on, you know, you think about all the things that you're getting wrong and all the things you're screwing up and all the ways that you...

You dwell on it.

Yeah.

But what about kids that are just ignored by their parents?

So, I mean, that's what I always tell myself yeah i just think well i'm not as bad as some but i don't know then other times i think that's no way to be just to tell yourself oh i'm not the worst it's a coping strategy just to say i'm not you sleep every night so i'm great no but anyway

So you're in stand-up mode?

I am at the moment, yeah, after having been a bit more in acting mode this year.

Yeah, what have you been up to acting-wise?

I did another series of Whitstable Pearl that's out now, and I was also filming Spinal Tap, the sequel.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, so we did that in New Orleans earlier this year.

And I don't know when that'll be out, but I think it's not going to be that long.

Who's directing that?

Rob Reiner.

That's Rob Reiner again.

Rob Reiner directed it, and it was the whole original cast, the band.

Whoa.

I know, it was mad.

Mark Cartney was in it, and Elton John had a scene with Elton John.

Holy shit.

It was kind of mad.

The whole experience was.

And what's the idea?

Like,

is it a continuation of the story?

The premise is that they're all out of touch.

They haven't seen each other for a long time.

And I play the manager's daughter, Toni Hendrik, who played the manager.

I'm his daughter, Hope.

And Hope, Faith.

And then Garth Brooks does a cover of a tap number and it goes viral.

And I've inherited the contract and I realise that they have to play a gig because one of their songs has gone mega.

Yeah.

And so I bring them back together and then they have a gig.

Oh my God.

It was amazing.

You got a good part in that.

I had a really nice part.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the character.

Yeah.

Holy shit.

I'm overwhelmed by that news.

I am, and I'm in it.

I mean, the whole thing felt kind of dreamy.

I did a film with Christopher Guest about eight years ago.

Mascots, yeah.

Mascots.

And that was a brilliant experience.

And it's the one and only time I've ever been to LA and had a great time.

But it was starting to feel like something that was a one-off rather than a regular experience.

But I got this text one evening from my voiceover agent saying, look at your emails with a head exploding emoji.

And there in my emails was an email from Rob Reiner's assistant saying, Rob's trying to get hold of Kerry for potentially playing this character in the Spinal Tap sequel.

I just thought it was a sort of wind-up, but it transpired to be real.

And then two days later, I was on a Zoom with Rob Reiner.

Holy Moses.

Yeah.

How did he know about your stuff?

Like, what did he say?

I think Christopher must have suggested me to him for this character.

Chris Guest, who plays Nigel Tufnall.

Who plays Nigel Tufnall.

And right from when me and Ben first got together, he's always said, I sound like David St.

Hubbins.

It's been a running joke.

Actually, now I'm looking at you.

Yeah, it's got it.

Your hair is looking a bit St.

Hubbins.

Oh, shit.

It's good.

It's nice.

He's got lovely hair, St.

Hubbins.

It's the leather trousers and the little tank top.

Yeah, so I mean,

obviously for certain people, a certain generation, it's a beloved thing, isn't it, Spider-Tap?

And was there a moment's hesitation?

No, not at all.

So Rob Reiner, how was he?

He was he was exactly how you imagine.

He was like a being with a Hollywood legend.

Yeah.

And because he's playing Marty, so he's doing the same character that he does in the original.

Marty DeBergey.

Marty DeBergey, so he's wearing all the kind of...

What would you call that outfit?

Like a kind of directory

safari almost.

He's got like the lens round his neck and stuff like that.

So he really, he was a lot of fun.

He was rich.

They were all so lovely and really excited to be doing it and probably didn't know if they ever would do it, you know, put the band back together.

And they've got such affection for each other.

I think the two main loves for the band anyway is doing the English accents.

Yeah.

That's just heaven for them, just talking in those voices, which I'm, you know, you're like, that's how I talk every day.

And

the music, just jamming together and playing music together.

It's really lovely.

What was your favourite scene in the original movie?

Oh, God.

I love it when they're doing the animals, the sketches of the, when Janine's telling them what spirit animal.

There's so many.

It's just a joke.

It's just a joke.

And

a lot of the Chris Guest stuff, when they're at Elvis's grave, it's too much.

That's raga.

That's fucking raga.

Look on raga.

It's a nice fucking perspective.

Yeah, it's exactly.

Yeah, there's just so many great moments in it.

Michael McKean, how was he?

Brilliant.

Just such a joy.

All of them were such a joy to work with.

I'm glad to hear.

They all go back so far.

Like they've known each other since they were 18.

And they all genuinely get on still, do they?

Yeah, there's a really deep love and friendship between them.

And I suppose the premise of that whole original is that they're like, it's...

two best friends falling out and getting back together again, isn't it?

Yeah, that's right.

So it's kind of a little bit echoes of that, you know,

in the sequel.

And these brilliant cameos, Paul McCartney McCartney and Elton John.

Did you do a scene with McCartney?

I didn't have a scene with McCartney, but on McCartney Day, everybody just found a reason to hang out on set.

Yeah.

So it was quite nice to be on the monitors that day.

Oh, you turned up for it?

Oh, yeah.

Everyone turned up for it.

But I did have a scene with Elton John and David Furnish.

And they were really, I mean, also, you're doing improvisation, so you don't really know if they're going to bite.

You're like, we'll see how this goes.

Yeah.

David Furnish was hilarious.

We did a very long improv.

I'll be curious to see how much makes the edit.

That's the other thing with improvisation.

You don't really know what the cut's going to be like.

I watched Spinal Tap not that long ago and it is

just great.

It's so great.

I watched it with the kids.

Because it's really lean.

Yeah, it is.

And it goes fast.

It rockets along.

It doesn't slag.

And I love all that.

I've forgotten.

and really enjoyed remembering the bits with like real fans cut in.

Yeah, yeah.

So they've tried to obviously recreate a lot of that with the gig.

So the gig was at this amazing venue in New Orleans and they'd they'd got about 2,000 SAs that were all tap fans and had come from all over to be at this gig.

And it was quite exciting.

I bet.

Yeah.

And the music was great as well.

The band, they're pretty tight band.

What's the track that revives their career?

Might be Sex Farm.

I can't fully remember.

I think it's Sex Farm.

Sex Farm Woman.

I'm gonna mow you down.

Awful.

So wrong.

But

just loved that film.

Like, first time I saw Spinal Tap, I didn't get it.

No.

And I understand neither did they when they screened it.

Right.

Because I, I mean, I didn't know anything about that world.

No.

And I didn't.

Nothing existed like that.

I didn't care about heavy metal.

I didn't, I hadn't seen any of it.

I wasn't there.

No one had made a fake documentary before.

Well, Bad News was the comic strip one, wasn't it?

Did that come out before Spinal Tap?

I think that's been like, they kind of came out around the same time.

But yeah, no, same.

And I think that, I think the story goes that when they screened it for the first time, people came out going, well, why did I just watch a documentary about a shit band?

Yeah, I think I thought it was supposed to be funny, but I just thought it's not that funny.

I don't get it.

It takes a while to get under your skin.

Because one of the early scenes is them talking about the drummers.

And I thought it was a bit too silly.

Like, like I just thought, yeah, okay, it's supposed to be funny, but I don't get it.

And then I just saw it again a couple of years later.

You know, this is when I was 14 or something.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the next time I saw it, everything clicked.

And it's the voices.

The voices especially were so much fun.

And they love being in those voices.

They just love hanging out in those accents.

And then we got the record.

When I say we, this is me and Joe and Louis Thoreau and our friend Zach.

And we got the record, and it was so exciting to actually hear the songs, the full songs.

And we were so impressed by how good they were and i think they play all that music they play all of it they're brilliant musicians i mean chris guess just noodles away on the guitar all the time and they've done some massive gigs they've done glastonbury yeah um that's right yeah they love playing together and it's harder and harder for them to do that because they're just you know they don't all live in the same place and they're busy mike mckeen's super busy acting all the time and harry shearer lives in New Orleans and I think the others live in California and so it was kind of special for them to all get together and yeah make that movie.

Bad News Tour came across as being slightly ahead of its time it was released a year before this is Spinal Time

and I think that's mad isn't it yeah because that was the comic strip that was Aide Edmondson and Rick Mail and all that lot and they're really similar about they're about a heavy metal band that are a bit shit and fractious yeah and

And also as well when you do work in, like, how many times have you been at a gig and said, let's rock and roll when you're stuck down a corridor?

Or, you know, hello, Cleveland.

meet a dead end or

you know the billing is you're below the puppets or there's just so many tropes of like ego and and show business that are just they were still booing the last lot when we came on

it's just so quotable isn't it so I can't wait to see see whatever it is when it comes out and then did you get to sort of hang out in the evening and go out to see music and things like that yeah I was always going to gigs There was just music everywhere.

I mean it really is kind of a magical place where there's just music pouring out of every building.

Yeah.

It was great.

Chris Addison was there as well.

He's in it.

And Anina Conte came over and she's in it as well.

So we had some fun.

Oh my God.

That is so exciting.

I can't wait to see it.

No, I can't wait to see it.

I mean, I don't...

Who knows what it will be?

And it's so beloved, isn't it?

And what's amazing as well is that a lot of younger people, I'll say, oh, I'm doing, I did this one or tap, and they don't know what it is.

It really is a specific age thing.

And comedians love it, musos love it.

And then there's all the rest of it.

It's kind of a quite a niche.

In a way,

you've got to kind of just shut yourself off from the response to it totally.

Because there's no way I would ever have not done it.

Like you saying, was there a nanosecond where you thought, shall I?

There wasn't.

There really wasn't.

It was just like a kind of dream job, really.

Of course.

Yeah.

Just to meet all that lot.

That's the thing is that they're all so talented and they've all, I guess it's cool because

every one of that cast has done very well, yeah.

And um, yeah, you're right, in and in very different things.

Harry Shearer in The Simpsons, uh, Chris Guest keeps directing, Michael McKean's brilliant, he's in and he's in so many better calls Saul and all that kind of stuff.

And uh, yeah, he's Rob Ronner did all right, didn't he?

He went on to make quite a few films.

I think so, he's a legend.

We watched a few of their some of the what well, Stand by Me we already mentioned, but watched What Else with the Kids

when Harry Met Sally and God, he directed that as well.

My God.

Misery.

He did a few good men.

A few good men.

And Misery.

Those are two of my favourite films.

Yeah.

It's amazing, isn't it?

That is amazing.

So you're heading off to the theatre.

Yes, I'm so cultured.

How do you know how long the play is?

I don't.

I really don't know.

I hope it isn't super long.

A whole

long, long night of Jacobean theatre.

I bet it's great.

Jodi Whittaker is going to be wonderful, but...

I'm sure she'll be wonderful.

But anything longer than 90 minutes and it's awesome.

I agree it's after situation I mean I don't like long films I don't like long plays how long is the Duchess of

Malfi don't tell it don't tell me if it's over an hour and a half it's better if I don't know

um

Duchess of Malfi oh what uh oh oh what how long is it

oh god two hours two three hours three hours in between two and a half hours

including the interval.

Yes.

Right.

That's not too bad.

That's not too bad.

They're bound to make it modern, aren't they?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm not going to do it in all Jacobean.

I'm not great with IMBic pentameter.

Oh, no, they have modernized it.

Oh, good.

Thank Christ for that.

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Continue.

Hey, welcome back, podcasts.

That was Kerry Godliman there.

I'm going to leave her a voice message.

Hi, hi Kerry Adam Buxton here I am out with Rosie and we are recording the outro for my podcast the one that features our conversation from a few weeks back thanks again for doing it this voice note might actually be in the outro

and

I wanted to know how the theatre was in the end did it go well did the kids absolutely go nuts for the Jacobean tragedy let me know hope you're very well thanks again for doing the podcast take care I love you bye

that was a brilliant message

quite short shorter than most of my messages

let's see if Kerry gets back to me in the meantime I wanted to point out

for the violin aficionados amongst you podcats

that I googled the little balls of fluff that Kerry's dad finds in the instruments that he repairs.

I couldn't find anyone referring to them as mice, not to say that no one does,

but I did find a reference to them

as tone balls, which is rather beautiful.

And I found a blog dedicated to a collection of tone balls

by a violin maker and restorer called Martina Hoare.

H-A-W-E.

And she's got quite a few nice pictures of tone balls, which come to think of it would be quite a brilliant album cover idea, wouldn't it?

Oh man.

I'm calling my album, I think, Buckle Up.

It was going to be called Pizza Time, but currently I'm thinking Buckle Up.

But maybe it's not too late to change it to Tone Balls.

Well, if not, then Bags Tone Balls as the title to my next album.

And maybe the cover would be some of these pictures.

Either of Carrie's dad's tone balls, or maybe I'll get in touch with Martina and ask if I can feature some of hers.

She writes underneath one picture,

Violin tone ball, found in a GB Guadanini violin made in Parma, 1770.

It came to me via London as a donation from a kind colleague who has supported my tone ball passion with a few more balls so far.

Maybe it's Carrie's dad,

who is her colleague.

The tone ball, she says of the photograph, is 14 millimeters in diameter.

I'd call it a size L for a violin ball.

It's just small enough to squeeze in through an F hole.

Stop it.

The density is good, roundness is excellent.

The main coloration is grey with a few red, white, and blue particles.

One long hair is wound around the whole ball a few times, like the rings of Saturn.

Personal rating 8 out of 10.

Poetry.

And I would never have found it had I not had that conversation with Kerry.

Tone balls.

There's a link to that blog in the description.

Well that's it for this episode.

Myself and Rosie are going to get back before any loud firework banging begins, hopefully.

Thank you very much indeed, once again to Kerry

for giving up her time to waffle with me.

it was lovely to see her.

And she has texted me back.

Hello.

The kids loved the play.

It was very modern and gory.

Possibly too gory.

My son was quite quiet afterwards.

Worried he was disturbed.

Great production, though.

Hope you're well.

Thanks, Kerry.

Hope you understood that I was going to read out your message on the podcast.

Anyway, I think that was fine.

Glad you enjoyed the play.

Thank you to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support.

Thanks to Helen Green, she does the illustration for this podcast.

Rosie,

Hoglegs.

Hey, Rose.

Look, I'm going to let you off because we are going back towards the castle so you can run free for the final section.

There you go.

See you back there.

And thanks to everyone at ACAST for all their hard work liaising with my sponsors.

But

perhaps most of all, thank you very much for listening.

Right to the end, you're great, and I hope things are going okay for you and that you won't consider it over-familiar or creepy if I lean in for a quick hug.

Hey, how are you doing?

To see you

looking terrific and smelling just very special.

Till next time, go carefully, and I love you.

Bye.

Possibly longest by.

Still got it.

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and a thumbs up,

and

the colours are to be a pound of the city.

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