An NBA Scandal, the WembyCorn, a Three-Day Power Poll, and NFL Week 8 Picks With Joe House

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The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.

Speaker 1 We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I will have a new rewatchables for you at some point early next week.

Speaker 1 I think it's going to be Monday night, but we have to do a horror movie. And we've done Halloween one

Speaker 1 and we've done Halloween four,

Speaker 1 but we have not done Halloween two.

Speaker 1 And especially now that I'm in the new studio with, can you see?

Speaker 1 Can you see the My? There he is right there. See him? Michael Myers, my guy.

Speaker 1 We're going to do Halloween too. So that's going to be the next rewatchables.
Now I just screwed up my camera.

Speaker 1 And you can find that

Speaker 1 wherever you get your rewatchables, preferably on Spotify on video. So there you go.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I was going to do the top of the podcast and talk about Chargers, Vikings, and then the Warriors, Nuggets game. And then the Chargers decided to kill the Vikings.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I was going to watch watch the second half and then have some notes, but it was just the classic Thursday night stinker.

Speaker 1 And it all kind of flipped in the beginning when Herbert seemed like he threw a pick six. And then they called it back because I said the ball kind of moved on the ground.

Speaker 1 The Chargers drove down and then that was it. So the Chargers beating the Vikings.
And I guess we don't need to talk about that other than the fact that the Vikings

Speaker 1 do not look like a playoff team this year. And JJ McCarthy, the mystery continues.
So that, and then Denver and the Warriors, we had the whole year to talk about that.

Speaker 1 So we're diving right into this so we can get the podcast up faster. Joe House is coming on.
We're going to talk about the NBA gambling scandal. I think scandal is the right word here.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do a very brief blink test NBA power poll for house because I watched a ton of basketball over the last couple of days.

Speaker 1 And then last but not least, we're going to do ringer 107 and try to find five games in a depleted schedule because we have six teams on a buy, but we found five that we liked.

Speaker 1 This is a very fun podcast. I'm just telling you now.
We just recorded it. And then I went a time machine into the beginning of this for this intro you're about to watch.

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Speaker 1 All right, we're taping this part of the podcast.

Speaker 1 This is the first time I've ever done this house where in the new studio, I have the Chargers Vikings game on, and I'm going to try to concentrate on you and not look to see what's happening. But

Speaker 1 there's a lot of stuff going on right now.

Speaker 2 Football's going on.

Speaker 1 Football, basketball.

Speaker 1 The World Series is about to start. Did you pick a team to root for in the World Series or are you just staying away?

Speaker 2 I picked a bet. I picked a few bets.
I bet the Dodgers to win four games to one, plus 380 on the FanDuel Sportsbook. I bet.

Speaker 2 Shohei Otani to win MVP at plus 165. Did every square bet.

Speaker 1 Square. I love when you go square.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 Otani MVP at plus odds. Like, I got to have a taste of that, right?

Speaker 1 All right. Here's the agenda.
We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about all the gambling stuff that happened this week.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk about an NBA power poll and me watching basically two straight days of games. And I have a lot of thoughts.
And then we're going to do Ringer 107 NFL.

Speaker 1 So the gambling thing broke today.

Speaker 1 And it was a massive story.

Speaker 1 And I was debating about like, do we want to do anything on the pod about it or wait until to see more facts and things like, but this, this passed the test of so many people in my life asking me,

Speaker 1 yo, what do you think? What is it? And I just feel like we have to do something about it. I just want to tell you the highlight, though.

Speaker 1 My mom texted me right in the middle as I'm getting like a million texts. I hope you and Sal aren't involved in this NBA betting scheme.
Exclamation point.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm going going to have a hard time.

Speaker 1 I can't tell if she was serious or not.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have a hard time. I did have a lot of people in my life say, you like,

Speaker 2 as a joke, you know, how are you one degree removed? Is this three degrees removed? How far removed? You know, one degree of separation.

Speaker 1 So here's the thing. And this is going to sound like I'm making a defense of the gambling universe, which, as you know, I love, you love.
We've been in it for this entire century, basically.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 with the way the legalized gambling happened in all the states,

Speaker 1 it's going to be rocky here in a couple different ways as we sort through this decade with what you can and can't do, right?

Speaker 1 The good side is that

Speaker 1 the best books, they can monitor all this shit. If anything nefarious is going on, they're going to sniff it out.
And that's what's happened over and over again with all this stuff.

Speaker 1 They always sniff it out anytime there's a regular stuff. So in a weird way, it's being policed, I think, better than it's ever been.
Where we have an issue, and this is

Speaker 1 what I thought happened, especially with the Damon Jones thing. That was the most interesting part of this whole thing to me.

Speaker 1 Damon Jones, who's obviously friends with LeBron James, he finds out LeBron's not playing in a Milwaukee Bucks game and tells,

Speaker 1 allegedly, tells somebody he knows, hey, you know, LeBron's not playing. Like, don't forget about me.
He's like, D. Jones has to eat, whatever he said.

Speaker 1 And this is an issue I think the NBA and and NFL specifically have, baseball too, obviously,

Speaker 1 where they can get intel that somebody's not playing or somebody's hurt, and they can get that intel ahead of time and quickly make smaller scale bets.

Speaker 1 But it's the players controlling information that's coming from them where they don't even know where it's going. They're just telling a buddy.
They have no idea.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm telling you, yeah, I might not record my pod tonight. You know, this happened.
And you're like, oh, I'm going to tell FanDuel Simmons isn't.

Speaker 1 Like, that's kind of what's going on in the house. I don't know how they police this.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 they can't really police that specific situation that you're describing with the Damon Jones thing, what's being alleged on that particular fact pattern. Because,

Speaker 2 yes, there is already in place a series of injury reports over the course of a day. Every single day, the NBA

Speaker 2 puts out, what, on the hour, every two hours, an injury report. The very first one, you know, identifies guys and gives the likelihood of playing.

Speaker 1 And over the course of

Speaker 1 questionable,

Speaker 2 probable.

Speaker 2 And some of what's been alleged in these indictments is like guys going from probable to out, right, over the course of a day.

Speaker 2 But that at least is a form of communication that lets the market know: here are the possibilities for guys that are going to be, you know, possibly playing, possibly impaired, whatever the situation is.

Speaker 2 And for the most part,

Speaker 2 you can kind of see it coming. Like,

Speaker 2 it is the case now that the journalism around the NBA, the NBA info sphere is sufficient. Like, oh, that guy did something, tweet the calf last night.
So he shows up on the injury report the next day.

Speaker 2 It might say started off as probable at the morning shoot around or whatever. And then over the course of the day,

Speaker 2 maybe the condition changes, it worsens. But you can, if you're

Speaker 2 trying to gamble on stuff, build that into what you anticipate.

Speaker 1 Like the intuition. The warriors might rest curry.
It's a back-to-back.

Speaker 1 You can kind of infer certain things. I think the difference with this, though, what this opens up is all the people connected to a good player's life.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 can take advantage of that if they want to, right? The equipment managers, the trainers,

Speaker 1 somebody who's like a security guard in the building who know, who overhears Steph say, yeah, I'm not playing tonight. And that's where it gets hard to police.

Speaker 1 But this is where, like, I think the sports books actually, they can know, especially with the unders and some of the, some of the bets that they can go, they're like, that's weird.

Speaker 1 Why are all these people betting on the Terrier Roger under? That's how that started. It was like this irregular betting pattern that they noticed.

Speaker 2 Well, the window of opportunity for the non-public information is before the first injury report. So like it seems it has to be the case.
I have not, you know, sat down and committed to full memory.

Speaker 2 I have not either.

Speaker 1 I unfortunately was busy, too busy today to read the entire thing.

Speaker 2 I'm reading indictments and stuff.

Speaker 2 But, you know, for both Damon Jones and what's being alleged about Chauncey, which is he told somebody in advance of a game that he was going to sit all the best players.

Speaker 1 That one's different.

Speaker 1 So the Chauncey thing moves into Pete Rose territory. Well, and

Speaker 1 Chauncey allegedly is in both sides of this because this is two different things.

Speaker 1 It's an illegal poker scheme, which was crazy with x-rays and the tables, and you're putting in tinted contact lenses to see marked cards.

Speaker 1 Like, shit, I didn't even, I've heard a lot of crazy illegal poker game stories. I didn't even know you could do this.

Speaker 2 That's what rich guys do to each other. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Rich guy crime on crime.

Speaker 1 You know who's never played an illegal poker game? This guy right here.

Speaker 2 I don't trust it. Yeah, that was a good, good intuition.

Speaker 1 But so Chauncey was in that, but then he was also in this basketball side, allegedly, where, and I looked it up. It's interesting the game they pointed out.
It was the 2020, 23 team.

Speaker 1 It was Dame was there, and they kind of shut Dame down for the rest of the season because they were trying to tank for that Scoot Henderson pick. And it was the first game he got shut down on.

Speaker 1 He had played the game before, and you can see the before, after with the box scores of, oh, they still have some of their guys to. we have none of our guys.

Speaker 1 And if it's true that he tipped somebody off, that they were doing this in a way that he wanted that person to gain financially from it,

Speaker 1 that's about as dark as anything that's happened in the NBA since Donney, if that's true.

Speaker 2 So the way that has to go down, though, is that the context surrounding the direction of the team, I mean, this requires time and energy that I promise I will not commit to the situation.

Speaker 1 I did it today. It was right as they, and they were already, they'd lost some.

Speaker 1 So it was in the mix of the tank.

Speaker 2 they're headed in a tank direction so the market is already kind of anticipating so the advantage that would that he would have conferred is telling somebody absolutely without uh equivocation these guys are definitely not playing and that news doesn't he have an obligation in the injury report all those names at the very first time the injury report appears should have had those names on it and i'm not going back and looking at it but we can yeah but you can put that game before it comes out that day you can put in the game in the bet yes you can

Speaker 2 comes out. That's the point that Dame's getting showed.

Speaker 1 Because the key with this is Dame was playing and he realizes, all right, we're cutting this. We're sitting Dame for the rest of the season, basically.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give this information to somebody if that's what he did.

Speaker 2 Non-public information that precedes the injury report. Because the market, you can bet.
You can bet when you wake up first thing in the morning.

Speaker 1 So if this is true that he did that, and then he's also in this other, the legal poker side of it, too.

Speaker 2 But that was a one-time thing.

Speaker 2 The way

Speaker 2 the indictment reads, he's like, he helped get some lure some poor sucker to the poker game one.

Speaker 1 But he's still in it. He's like, if all this is true, we're not going to.
This guy coached last night. I watched last night.
He did. Him coaching.

Speaker 2 He did do that. He was a coach on the floor.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And then, and then they sprung this

Speaker 2 chips to the middle.

Speaker 1 I don't think it was unintentional that they sprung this

Speaker 1 in the worst possible timing for the NBA.

Speaker 2 Not

Speaker 1 Stephen I pointed that out on First Take Today that this is,

Speaker 1 you know, we're coming off this incredible Wemby game that is what we should have been leading the podcast with today. And they just cut the legs out of it.

Speaker 2 And, I mean,

Speaker 2 two incredible games, two incredible nights for the NBA. Welcome back.
A beautiful night on NBC, followed up by an impeccable night on ESPN. Inside the NBA, it's firing on all cylinders.

Speaker 2 We have a legendary, a career-defining game out of Wemby. And the next day,

Speaker 2 it's cash patel time, baby.

Speaker 1 It's not even the next day. It was 10 hours later.
I got cash.

Speaker 1 Chauncey was on this list.

Speaker 1 And this is crazy. This guy's a Hall of Famer.

Speaker 1 I think one of the more respected players we've had this century. His name was Mr.
Big Shot.

Speaker 1 And he ends up on this list. Some of the people involved, these are some of the nicknames, house in this indictment list.

Speaker 1 Spanish G, yes, Flappy,

Speaker 1 the wrestler,

Speaker 1 Spook, Juice, Black Tony, Sugar, Albanian Bruce, John South, Doc, Black Rob, and Pookie.

Speaker 2 We need to give out all those nicknames and apply them to ringer people. We need to do a draft.
I mean, I already know who Black Tony is. I know who Flappy is.

Speaker 1 So, do you think Black Tony, you think there was a white Tony? There were two Tonies

Speaker 1 and they had to split up the Tonies.

Speaker 2 Very possible. A lot of questions.
Very possible.

Speaker 1 Albanian Bruce couldn't just be Bruce. He had to be Albanian Bruce.

Speaker 2 well there was another bruce weren't there two bruces

Speaker 1 i feel like there were two bruises i did well but the thing is this guy's albanian bruce's real name was osman hoti fine so yeah

Speaker 1 there's a doc there has to be a doc in all this somebody's yeah there was a doc and a pookie that that's what really made me feel authentic uh so yeah the chauncey thing bad Rogier.

Speaker 2 So here's the Chauncey Thing Bad. Yes.
What's Chauncey Thing Bad?

Speaker 1 Well, I'm just everything we said, bad. Yeah.
Bad, his career will be over in the NBA.

Speaker 1 Rogier,

Speaker 1 it's the other really interesting piece of this, was cleared by the NBA.

Speaker 1 Now, the FBI is saying, not only is he not cleared, here's like some,

Speaker 1 and I did see some of that stuff in the indictment. Like they had real hardcore stuff with Roger that was really bad.
And the NBA cleared him, said they looked at his phone.

Speaker 1 And now this is a he said, he said thing with did Rogier, what did he do? Now, Roger's career has gone into the absolute tank over the last two years, right? Really, as all of this started. And

Speaker 1 Turnit was a guy that, you know, Miami traded for from Charlotte and gave up a first-round pick. And we thought it was going to be this impactful trade.

Speaker 1 And two years later, his career is definitely over.

Speaker 1 I'm sure Miami will figure out how to get him taken off the salary cap somehow and then replace him with a much better player.

Speaker 2 That's going to happen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're not going to be allowed to bet on that.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 you can do that. But

Speaker 1 so those are the big three. And I do think, on the one hand, I don't feel like this is as big of a deal as it feels like.
Like, I think the Donaghy thing was a much bigger deal.

Speaker 2 Way worse.

Speaker 1 It's like 10 times of a bigger deal.

Speaker 1 This is like, yeah, if gambling is going to be more and more prevalent, we're probably going to have a couple bad apples and everybody's going to learn how to behave and deal with it.

Speaker 1 And maybe don't share information about who's playing, not playing, and people you don't trust.

Speaker 2 Maybe just don't share it at all. How about that? That's what the injury report is for.

Speaker 1 Let me ask you, though, big picture,

Speaker 1 because I think the player unders, especially in the NBA, are problematic. And if I was like, if they made me the czar of sports gambling, right?

Speaker 1 Which I think I might have a chance when you see some of Trump's cabinet. I can't be ruled out.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you made me the czar, I just want to know why we have player unders.

Speaker 1 Why not just be able to bet overs or nothing, especially in basketball and especially when it's like not Steph Curry, when you're talking about like Quentin Post over unders and Al Horford under threes?

Speaker 1 And to me, that's a danger area we could just eliminate.

Speaker 2 So I would just tweak it a tiny bit

Speaker 2 and just

Speaker 2 conceive. I can't come up with the word.
Tighten up. Tighten up.

Speaker 1 Constrict?

Speaker 2 That's it. Thank you.
Golly.

Speaker 1 We're so old.

Speaker 2 The coffee.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Take the pool of eligible players.
Just give out props on a handful of players. Just let it be the players that we know, that we have reasonable certainty are going to play.

Speaker 2 You can take the props down if the guy ends up not playing because it's load management, whatever. But let's just have, you don't need really, do we need Quentin Post props?

Speaker 2 Did we need Jante Porter props?

Speaker 1 Honestly, I would do this for NFL too. I would only have like the bigger stars like do we need

Speaker 1 kayshan booty do we need it to be like under three and a half for his catches and things like he's actually pretty good i do maybe he's a bad example yeah man give me give me a booty but maybe it's like kyle williams the patriots rookie like under over under one and a half catches like that's that's where i think it goes sideways so i would i would stay if i was in charge of this i would steer the props toward big players only yeah you could do that there's some other radical stuff you could do like freeze the lines five hours before the games and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 But that's really unfair if, you know, somebody gets scratched late.

Speaker 1 The thing in baseball that happened allegedly with a couple of the Cleveland Indians pitchers, being able to bet on pitches, I think is insane. I would probably get rid of that.

Speaker 2 The first pitch props. Holy cow.

Speaker 1 I do wonder if 10 years from now, we're either going to have more of this or less. I would prefer less, but, you know, I think it's going to shake out the way it's going to shake out.

Speaker 1 I still feel like, look, there's way way more gambling across the board than there used to be. You can see it everywhere.
You can certainly see it on this podcast.

Speaker 1 And I think some of this stuff has to shake out, but we've always had the gambling stuff. I wondered, like, do you think all of these things still happen?

Speaker 1 if gambling hadn't been more legalized across the states in the last 10 years? Like, I would argue like the illegal poker games, we've been hearing about those for 30 years.

Speaker 2 You know, as long as we've been sentient. Like, I've been gambling on basketball since I was 17 years old.

Speaker 2 Like, how did I do that? How is that possible?

Speaker 2 Well, I knew a guy. And they took a lines.

Speaker 1 And there were lines.

Speaker 2 There were lines in the newspaper. There weren't lines online, but there was a line in the Boston Globe every day.

Speaker 1 Right. And the NFL is, is they're finding teams that lie in the injury report because they're putting these spreads out in the newspaper every day.

Speaker 1 So we, we, basically, we were, we've always been doing this. I just feel like we're more honest about it.
And then the process of being more honest about it,

Speaker 1 I think there's going to be a couple hiccups that ultimately, if we can police all this and we can notice every time something's a little bit off, I think that's a plus, not a minus.

Speaker 2 That's where we are. Like it's so much more regulated.
The books can, all established books can detect irregularities.

Speaker 2 very rapidly. I mean, even the Rougier game, didn't they shut that down? Didn't they close off? Shut it down right away.
Yeah, right away. And immediately, the same thing with Jante Porter.

Speaker 2 Like, oh, there are bets here. And it doesn't even have to be very sizable increments, right? It's not like those dummies did attempt sizable increments because they're dummies.

Speaker 2 But, you know, there are, and we'll see these indictments reveal how you can get to scale, how you can get to $200,000 on an outcome without calling undue attention. You're spreading it out.

Speaker 2 You're using proxies.

Speaker 1 That's not online usually. That's usually putting them on on different casinos is how they do it.
They have like 10 runners putting places.

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 Other thing, but you mentioned Jante Porter. Like, to me, that's the perfect example of why this is a little bit broken.
Why are we allowed to bet on Jante Porter unders?

Speaker 1 I didn't even know he was in the NBA.

Speaker 1 When he was playing, what was it, on Toronto? He was like the 15th man. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It would be like, I'm trying to think of, and then when I watched in that Celtic Sixers game last night, the most obscure guy in that game

Speaker 1 betting the Barlow.

Speaker 2 I had to look up Barlow.

Speaker 1 Betting unders on Barlow blocked shots. Like, that shouldn't be a bad one.

Speaker 2 Barlow got all the beat minutes in the fourth quarter, and he fucking deserved them. How about that?

Speaker 1 I can't wait to talk about that.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, are there any other fixes you would do for?

Speaker 2 You can just, just, you know, the prop pool, you know, tightening it up a little bit makes sense to me. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, uh we're gonna come back with albania and bruce black rob and pookie no no um

Speaker 1 i want to do some power poll stuff with you on nba and by the way we'll we'll keep talking about the the gambling i really want there'll be a lot more information that comes to light i don't we don't have enough info yet i wanted to talk about it but i also feel like the story is going to evolve and move and like to me people are saying this is the biggest issue the nba has right now i completely disagree

Speaker 1 i i really do i think the biggest issue they have is the schedule. And I still can't believe that Houston OKC game I watched on Tuesday night and how hard those motherfuckers played.

Speaker 1 And have to do that 81 more times plus playoffs. And Ahmed Thompson, who's probably one of the five best athletes in the league and is young and should be able to go all day.

Speaker 1 And he's about to keel over. They have to pull him out because he's getting cramps.

Speaker 1 And if you watch the game, how crazy he was playing back and forth, I'm much more concerned about how much speed, mileage,

Speaker 1 how much these guys run, the studies teams are doing about how much they run, how much sprinting they're doing during games. It's not sustainable.
It's not. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I think that's a bigger issue for the league.

Speaker 2 That's the concern I had watching that Wemby game last night. Like that, we

Speaker 2 only

Speaker 2 should get one of those every two weeks, maybe even only once a month, where he goes to that level with that level of intensity.

Speaker 2 Like Like when they, they were up by double digits with seven minutes left in the fourth quarter and he is still playing. I'm like, get Wemby off the court.
Get that man rest. Let that man rest.

Speaker 2 He's done enough. Right.

Speaker 1 And he only played 29 minutes, but they were hard 29 minutes.

Speaker 2 Incredible 29 minutes.

Speaker 1 So yeah, listen, they have to figure out all the gambling stuff.

Speaker 1 My thing with the NBA is they, Sober is a smart dude. They had a lot of smart people looking at this.
And I think they knew it was going to be Rocky for a couple of years.

Speaker 1 And there are going to be a couple of sacrificial lamps. And there are going to be, as Barkley said on Inside the NBA today, which I've really enjoyed on ESPN.
They have not fucked with this show.

Speaker 1 I got to give them credit to that. It feels like the exact same show on a different channel.
But Barkley, they were arguing about whether this is like a gambling problem or whatever.

Speaker 1 And Bark is like, these people are just stupid. He's right.
This is a stupid problem.

Speaker 1 I agree with. So how do we regulate the stupid? It's going to be

Speaker 1 a work in progress.

Speaker 2 Well, it's self-executing. I mean, you know, if guys want to self-sabotage, there's there's plenty of,

Speaker 2 you know, attorney whatever ready to

Speaker 2 take them and put them in shackles.

Speaker 1 Cash Patel.

Speaker 1 We'll take a quick break and then we'll do the PowerPoint. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA.

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Speaker 1 All right, coming back, PowerPoll. I watched both games Tuesday.

Speaker 1 I watched six straight hours of hoops on Wednesday. I had the three TVs going, which you've seen, plus my iPad.
I had four going at once. I was just trying to soak in as much as I possibly could.

Speaker 1 House, we're getting old. I have to like retrain myself how to watch four basketball games at once.

Speaker 1 I really was having struggle with it. But what was interesting was, and plus my daughter was was playing yesterday too.

Speaker 1 So that, so I had that, that, then that ended.

Speaker 1 But the, the heart wants what the heart wants. And my eyes kept drifting towards Charlotte.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 Just a delight. Just a delightful league pass team.

Speaker 2 I really enjoyed them.

Speaker 2 I took a spin through lead pass. I had two.
I only had two. I can handle two at one time.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Two screens at once.

Speaker 2 The Charlotte game, I did not land on that one. That was not, it was like shit.
Yeah, didn't have my bigger card. I don't need to see Brooklyn.
That really was the decision for me.

Speaker 2 I'm interested in Charlotte, but I don't need to see Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 I want to rip through a quick power poll, just a little snapshot.

Speaker 1 There's some overreactions in here, but just after two days, and there's games going on right now, like as we're talking, Indiana's playing OKC.

Speaker 1 Later tonight, Denver's playing Golden State. But right.
Favorite still OKC. Contenders.

Speaker 1 So initially,

Speaker 1 I had Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota,

Speaker 1 and the Clippers as the contenders. I'm replacing the Clippers with Houston.
That was the big ad for me after watching that game, which I talked about already on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 But the size and what we saw from Shangoon and Ahmed Thompson, what the potential is of KD when they figure out how to use him. I think we did the over-unders with Zach, what, two weeks ago? Yes.

Speaker 1 And I went under, and I regret it because the ceiling of that team, I think, is a little higher than maybe I gave it credit for. What did you think?

Speaker 2 I went under as well,

Speaker 2 but I know that's not what you're asking. But the reason is because they do still yet need some guard play.
They do still yet need some perimeter scoring. Like

Speaker 2 Dylan Brooks, whatever the limitations are, that dude shot nearly 40% from three for them last year. Jalen Green, whatever the limitations are, could create a shot.
under the right circumstances.

Speaker 2 They don't really... Ahmed Thompson could end up being that guy, but man.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of one-on-one, though. It was a lot of clear out, somebody beating somebody up the dribble or somebody posting up on a, on a side.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 not a lot of easy stuff.

Speaker 2 Over the course of all the number of games that they have to play, that limitation will kind of reveal itself to be a vulnerability. That's a badass basketball team.
Let there be no badass.

Speaker 1 I really liked, I think I forgot to mention this Tuesday night. I really liked how Jabari looked.
It was somebody I've always liked. I've kept on my stock.

Speaker 1 I thought he had some good moments for them.

Speaker 2 He looked it was the most confident version of Jabari we've seen maybe in his entire career. He knew who he was supposed to be on the floor with that team and he's like, I'm here for it.

Speaker 2 I thought he was very good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so they have to be in there because if Shangoon and Thompson, I had them in the high 20s when we did Ringer 100, but if they're moving up.

Speaker 1 toward the low 20s or maybe even the teens combined with KD, combined with some of their depth, it might be enough to overcome all the other stuff.

Speaker 1 I went on Eddie and Terminus Terminus' show yesterday. Awesome.
And we were talking about this Reed Shepherd thing, which you had the Brent Price joke that I give you credit for on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 He's not Bark Price, he's Brent Price. We'll see how it goes with Rich Guy Reed.
But Rich Kid Reed, that was what

Speaker 1 a friend of mine who saw him at Summer League said he was like a rich kid in an AAU tournament, which I thought was funny. Pretty good.

Speaker 1 But we were talking with Eddie Johnson. We were talking about the Matt Maloney season.
Eddie was on that team.

Speaker 1 That Barkley, Drexler, Hakeem. They make the, I think, Western finals against Utah, and it came down to Stockton versus Matt Maloney.

Speaker 1 And Matt Maloney, who they'd kind of like duct taped as a starter and been able, and he could make a couple threes, and he was okay. He was an Ivy Leaguer.

Speaker 1 Kudos to him for making it in the league. But then it got to John Stockton time, and he got worked like a speed bag, and it cost them a playoff series.

Speaker 1 So the question for me with Houston is, are they going to leave that door open for a Matt Maloney situation or do what you've been saying for a month? Go trade for a fucking point guard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They have time. I think they'll get a guard.
I do think they're going to do it.

Speaker 1 I'm sure they're monitoring. I mean, Derek White was incredible yesterday.

Speaker 1 So if they want to godfather off for Derrick White, if the Celtics are going to keep having exciting games and then losing with a minute left.

Speaker 2 Wow. You just said that out loud.

Speaker 1 I don't want to trade Derek White.

Speaker 2 Why did you put him in this conversation?

Speaker 1 Because I think if Houston got a real guard,

Speaker 1 I think they could actually win the title.

Speaker 2 Derek White is better than a real guard. Derek White is

Speaker 1 a fucking God.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's acting this war chest. Yeah.
Lord have mercy.

Speaker 1 I'm not the first one who said that. That's Derek White's floated around.

Speaker 2 All right. All right.

Speaker 1 So, Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Only other thing I noticed last night,

Speaker 1 and especially down the stretch, see a little comeback win for the Timberwolves. Yes.

Speaker 1 And beat Chauncey.

Speaker 1 He sent Chauncey packing, literally.

Speaker 1 There was a little, don't forget about me in that game, where it's like all these teams, these new guys on the new teams, it's Wemby, Cooper Flag, the West, Minnesota.

Speaker 1 We talked about how they had, I think, the six best odds on the West and people were discounting them in general, but there was a, there was a fuck you energy that he had in that game.

Speaker 1 Well, he needed it.

Speaker 2 because they had to outscore the Trailblazers 30 to 19 in the fourth quarter to win the goddamn game. They were just, you know, sort of cruising along.
It's like, dude, this is game one.

Speaker 2 Don't just show up and think that the Trailblazers are going to roll over. Jeremy Grant ain't here to just roll over for you.
I mean, we had a classic Jeremy Grant game last night.

Speaker 1 Black Tony's texting Shaunce at halftime. Shaunce is like, no, no.

Speaker 2 Don't let me send Pookie down there.

Speaker 2 Denver.

Speaker 1 is about to play. We haven't even seen them yet with their beautiful bench.
I did see Mike Malone on the inside the NBA today

Speaker 1 bemoaning the fact that they didn't Michael Malone bemoaning that they didn't have a bench when he coached the team

Speaker 1 and then Cavs.

Speaker 1 I don't want to hear a Cavs conversation until Garland is back and healthy. Let's see him healthy and playing well for two weeks.

Speaker 2 That feels fair. That feels fair.

Speaker 1 So OKC, then Denver Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Next group, two teams, possible contenders, Orlando and Golden State.
And we'll see Golden State tonight.

Speaker 1 I liked how Golden State took care of business in the Los Angeles game.

Speaker 2 Me too.

Speaker 1 How Kaminga,

Speaker 1 they're basically

Speaker 1 the words Sean Marion have been thrown around for what Kerr wants from them this year. No, listen, just run the floor, defense, rebounding, athleticism.
Just do that for us as a concept.

Speaker 2 We figure out the contract.

Speaker 2 It's a concept.

Speaker 1 Just be Sean Marion for us.

Speaker 2 We want to describe

Speaker 2 a concept, and we're going to use the word, the name Sean Marion, to describe the concept. Not the player, Sean Marion.

Speaker 1 Not the player. Just

Speaker 1 conceptually do a Sean Marion impersonation. Okay.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 the Hort thing, I love Big Al, one of the most popular Celtics of all time. I did kind of hit fuck you mode watching him in a wears uniform.

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 1 Well, he left twice.

Speaker 1 He's a lot. He left Boston the first time.
He signed with Philly.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Came back. We won the title with him.

Speaker 1 And then he's like, now I'm going to go chase a title with Golden State. Well, he already won a title, but, you know, for a little more money, he's made a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I wouldn't say he's chasing a title.

Speaker 2 He had a good place to go to get another contract. What's wrong with him?

Speaker 1 We loved him in Boston.

Speaker 2 Well, Boston wouldn't give him a contract.

Speaker 1 Listen, I'm not saying it's rational. I just got spiteful watching.

Speaker 2 I was like, fuck you. So unlike you.

Speaker 2 How dare you run Golden State? Yeah, it hurt my feelings.

Speaker 1 I didn't think it was going to hurt my feelings, but it did. He should have retired with the Celtics.

Speaker 1 And as usual,

Speaker 1 there's no loyalty in sports. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 He'll do that with the additional $25 million in his pocket or whatever.

Speaker 1 Golden State, possible contenders, but could see them moving up a notch.

Speaker 1 I like the vibe with them, and they very comfortably kicked the Lakers. It was really everything they were.

Speaker 2 It was professional. It was very orderly.
They're like, okay, this is fine. Good job.

Speaker 1 Pat him on the head. And then Orlando, who let Miami hang around for a while last night and then took care of business down the stretch.
But, you know, news flash, Desmond Bain's good at basketball.

Speaker 1 He's the top 40 to 45 player. And they added him and gave up nothing.
They just gave up future assets that weren't going to help them this year. So Orlando, maybe.

Speaker 1 If I'm an Orlando fan and we went up, we went, I went slight under on them. Did you go under on them? It was like 50 and a half.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes.
Just, you know, 49 wins is still fine.

Speaker 1 I wonder, do you think 51, 52 wins could win the East if Cleveland continues to just have guys bouncing in and out and not ever being 100% healthy?

Speaker 2 No, because the Knicks. Do you think it's higher? Well, one of my locks was the Knicks over 53 and a half, I think.

Speaker 1 So what's the number? What's the number for the winning record in the East?

Speaker 2 57 or 58 to me. Okay.
Yeah. And I think we're going to be able to get them.

Speaker 1 But I want to watch them a little more carefully and see how Suggs didn't play a ton of minutes in that first game. I think a month from now.

Speaker 2 We all bet over on Cleveland, by the way. Me, you, and Zach.
I think we were in agreement. I'm aware.
And the number was 56 and a half, I think, for Cleveland, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 I'm not worried. Okay.
Just saying. And they're all healthy.

Speaker 2 You asked me what number wins the East.

Speaker 1 east it's got to be north of 56 and a half that's all i'm saying i hope so okay i'm just i'm trying to figure out a path for orlando to be a one seed and i think the win number would have to be way lower next category the sleeper san antonio so look

Speaker 1 this is what happens

Speaker 1 with the nba everybody goes nuts when we're all watching something at the same time

Speaker 1 and people throw the word insane around because insane is the most used word in probably sports watching and it was insane.

Speaker 1 I would argue it was actually underrated how insane it was. I was in awe.

Speaker 1 Like to me, this was like Tiger that first year in 97, just demolishing golf courses. And we're like, what's going on?

Speaker 1 Him doing that to Dallas,

Speaker 1 not just Davis, but you have... Lively there, you have flag, like you have this good defensive identity.

Speaker 1 And he completely eviscerated them in a way that

Speaker 1 we talked about in the over-under pod. I was all in on San Antonio being much better this year.
You did. You did.

Speaker 1 And I really thought he had a chance. I thought him at 12 to 1 to an MVP was probably the best value odds.
And who knows if he can even play 65 games. But what he did in that game

Speaker 1 was one of the most frightening things I've seen on a basketball court. And I can't even think of that many other examples.

Speaker 2 This is, that's the problem with it. It is so rare now for us as sports fans to see an athlete that I'll just, you know, put it in a dumb way, takes our breath away.

Speaker 2 That doesn't really even begin to tell the story. Like, I can't believe my, my eyes are seeing something that I don't think I've seen before.
That like, that's 100%.

Speaker 2 I can't like compare him to anybody.

Speaker 2 For all of the years we've been watching basketball, I can't compare him to anybody.

Speaker 1 Like, No, it'd be like if there was a seven-foot wide receiver who was basically like a seven-foot Randy Moss and they were just throwing 50-yard passes to him and he would just jump up and catch them.

Speaker 1 And we were like, what's going on? How is this a human being? Yeah.

Speaker 2 The speed

Speaker 2 is incredible.

Speaker 2 I mean, what he did in terms of taking Anthony Davis out. sort of north of the circle, he starts shaking

Speaker 2 or the other his crossover, he double crossovers, he hesies, and then he's he's at the rim in a stride, and he just flushes the out of it.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 What did I just see?

Speaker 1 And the three-point shooting, um, I loved he was clearly realized he needs to be a little more around the rim.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, and News Flash, we've been telling you that for two years, but I'm glad he figured it out. And then defensively, it's always fun to see the new guy

Speaker 1 flag.

Speaker 1 He's like, ah, this will be fine. I'll figure him out.
And he had a couple moments where he was like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 I didn't realize.

Speaker 1 Listen, we talked about this in the overrunner spot. He just is moving better.

Speaker 1 He's more, I don't want to say more coordinated, but all the stuff he's done to work on his balance and his footwork, like you really see a difference.

Speaker 1 The first, that first year, he was falling over half the time.

Speaker 2 He's a child. He's still growing.
He's like, he's not, he's not grown. He's still growing.
Like, he's still filling out physically.

Speaker 1 I was thinking there was one play he had. Maybe it was when he did that, threw his legs 19 times, hit a three and got fouled.

Speaker 1 And then cut to the Spurs bench, and multiple guys were like this with their hands behind their head. And I was thinking, like, the Thomas Hill test

Speaker 1 of the labor shot.

Speaker 1 They cut to him after.

Speaker 2 He's like,

Speaker 2 oh, my God.

Speaker 1 He's just like, I just in shock.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the rarest level an athlete can get to when you, when you're Thomas Hill testing, your teammates or people on the bench are just like, and these guys are just playing basketball every day.

Speaker 1 They've seen every incarnation of everything.

Speaker 2 They're playing with him. And they're like, his teammates play with him and they can't believe what they're seeing.
Right.

Speaker 1 We haven't had a basketball player do that.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 I was trying to think about Curry, like Curry, when he was breaking through, starting to make the threes was, I think, the last one that gave people that feeling. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the two that I was wondering about, and I'll go back and look because I am actually kind of intrigued by this intellectual exercise. Young Shaq was mind-blowing.

Speaker 1 Orlando Shaq. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Young Orlando, when he was like super skinny, when he started, it was like, nobody can stop him. There's no way.
The only way to, you know, you have to foul him.

Speaker 2 And by fouling, I mean grab him by the arm and hold it because you can't.

Speaker 1 Yes, so the way he ran the floor, you and I both separately saw him in those first two years and we were just like, oh my God,

Speaker 1 what's that? Is this guy going to be the best player in the history of the league? But I don't know. Yeah.
So Shaq's a good one.

Speaker 2 I don't think we ever felt that way with Giannis.

Speaker 2 I mean, Giannis was always, he jumps out at you, right? And

Speaker 2 because the physical specimen is incomparable. But it took a while for the basketball part to kind of

Speaker 1 it was never 100% like it was with the Wemby thing. Yeah, it was like, whoa, this is really cool.

Speaker 1 But that was when we had that unicorn era with Porzingis and some of the, you know, and beat some of these other like, whoa, these guys, we haven't seen people like this.

Speaker 1 This Wemby's beyond a unicorn. I mean, nobody's ever done that on a basketball court before.

Speaker 1 I was watching with my son, who for the last like five, six years has been playing all the NBA 2K, all those games. And he had this player created when he was a kid called J.J.
McCutcheon.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the guy would have like be a 99 in every category, but he was also seven feet tall. And we would, and I would always be like, Ben, this isn't like somebody who would be a real player.

Speaker 1 I was like, yeah, but that's what makes him awesome. And we're watching.
He's like, this is like JJ McCutcheon. This is like the guy I created.

Speaker 1 But if the guy was actually a real person, the kid, the kid says that.

Speaker 2 Here's what I want, I'm going to ask. Can we talk to some old heads? I want to know what your dad thinks.

Speaker 2 How did he feel when he first saw Wilt? And did he he get to see Wilt live ever? Like, how did Will?

Speaker 1 I do think Wilt and Russell were both like this. There's unquestionably all the other reports from back then, like Russell's defense and his way he ran the floor and could protect the rim.

Speaker 1 Nobody had just ever seen it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then Wilt came in with some of the, you know, you can see some of it's on YouTube. Some of his finger roll stuff and like his power and his power on the rim.
It just didn't exist. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 So those are two good ones. Yeah.
Kareem had the sky hook that in person,

Speaker 1 you really had to

Speaker 1 it's just it does it's was just different in person yeah you just kind of could you were like how is anyone ever going to block that um magic and bird had the passing obviously jordan had the athleticism dominique as an in-game dunker

Speaker 1 i thought had a little of

Speaker 1 in person but nothing like this no this was no no no no this was and i will say lebron in the late 2000s okay his first two mvp seasons okay and i remember writing about this once.

Speaker 1 Um, because I wrote, I remember writing a piece about how he had arrived in like 09, but he had this play at a Clipper game where it felt like he just dunked

Speaker 1 two steps from mid-court. And the speed he had, it was so fast.
We were all, you could just kind of hear the arena buzzing after. It was so crazy athletic.

Speaker 2 We're like, oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What was that?

Speaker 2 Athletic Carl Malone. Like, hard to believe.

Speaker 2 That's the sheer size at that speed. So, well, we just went through nine of the top 12 players in the history of the game.
So there we go.

Speaker 1 Well, that was always the ceiling for him. I think what's interesting about this is,

Speaker 1 you know, and we've talked about this in the past, but

Speaker 1 this always happens earlier than we think. Like nobody thought Tiger was going to walk in and kill the Masters.
You are right. And

Speaker 1 crush everybody. You are right.
Nobody thought LeBron was going to make the finals in 07.

Speaker 1 Sometimes this just happens earlier than you. Nobody thought Duncan was going to win the title in his second year, or maybe some people did.

Speaker 2 I don't remember, but

Speaker 1 it's always faster. Nobody thought OKC was going to be a contender, and all of a sudden they were.

Speaker 1 And I wonder with San Antonio, is this just going to happen fast now? Is this a supercharge where we should just start? If Wemby's going to be healthy all year, this is a top 17 period.

Speaker 2 And I don't know the answer. It's fascinating because we didn't really get a feel for

Speaker 2 what the role players, what the team around him looks like, how they're going to compete night in, night out. All we got was what really feels like a once-in-a-lifetime performance.
Like in one week's

Speaker 2 span, we got Shohei Otani with one of the top three best baseball games in the history of the sport. Yeah.
You know, fine if you want to call it number one. I'm not going to argue with you.

Speaker 2 And then we got

Speaker 2 this game out of Wemby, a human specimen that is unlike any basketball player we've seen with the

Speaker 2 kind of dominance that that is unparalleled.

Speaker 1 And we got an x-ray table illegal poker game scandal. I mean, what a week for all of us.
On FanDuel, Spurs over-under is now up to minus, it's 45 and a half now.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Moving on.

Speaker 2 Two full games or at least one full game.

Speaker 1 No, it was 44 and a half went down to 43. Now it's 45.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 I just find it hard to believe that's not a contender. Here's the other thing with them, house.

Speaker 1 I loved how Cornette looked with them.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They have trade stuff if they want it. Sure.
If they want to go really try to upgrade somebody. They didn't have D'Aaron Fox in that game.
I loved how Castle looked in that game. I thought.

Speaker 2 What a fit.

Speaker 1 I thought I just felt like he went up a level and clearly I liked how he had a couple good alleyops to Wemby. Symbiosis.

Speaker 2 They are on the same page, them two.

Speaker 1 Unquestionably the sleeper this year.

Speaker 1 next one, the aspiration gang, the clippers. So, move them down.
They were so bad. I watched the first half of that Utah game.
They were so bad

Speaker 1 that I don't even know what to make of them.

Speaker 1 It has to be flagged.

Speaker 2 Why did they show up that way? What do you think the explanation is?

Speaker 1 One thing, we went over on them.

Speaker 2 We almost put them in our super boost because we needed them to get to 50 games, right? The total is 49 and a half. Can they get

Speaker 1 that? We didn't put them in the super boost, though.

Speaker 2 No, no, I mean, because you can't trust they did a good job of building out their their their bench i mean i think this this the thesis for expecting them in the 48 to 52

Speaker 1 win range is a sound thesis but shit can go wrong i do wonder about the personality though when i and it's one game i want to watch them more and i especially want to see them in person

Speaker 1 but you have quiet kawaii you've hardened who's in his own world your guy bradley beal

Speaker 1 who is like the

Speaker 1 come on, guys, let's fucking go guy on that team. Chris Paul's too old.

Speaker 2 Isn't it Lopez?

Speaker 2 It should be Brooke Lopez.

Speaker 1 He's not doing that. They don't have the guy, is my point.
So you're down 20 in Utah, and the team's like, okay.

Speaker 2 Let me ask you.

Speaker 1 I didn't like their body language at all.

Speaker 2 You think that was Will Hardy's Super Bowl? He's like, I just want everybody in the basketball world to know.

Speaker 1 To remember that I'm good at QB.

Speaker 2 I just want you to see what i could do here's what it's game one the season's gonna go the way it's i have some good players here's the stuff we're gonna do i could do this we could i could take these utah white boys and and get out here and and run a basketball team this way we're probably not gonna do it all season long but i just want you to see it well i'll tell you this kessler

Speaker 1 Kessler jumped out of the TV. He was fucking awesome in that game.
Remember when the Knicks were like, we're trying to get it Kessler. It's like, cool.
Kessler's good.

Speaker 1 We're not just giving him to you. He would look great, though.

Speaker 1 It's going to be,

Speaker 1 I guess their guards will be the key to them tanking Utah. Yes.

Speaker 1 But when you have Kessler and Marketing, you're just going to hang around in some of these games. I think one of the lessons of watching all the games last night,

Speaker 1 the talent is so fucking deep. It's like outrageous.
I just can't believe how many good players there are.

Speaker 1 Like even Charlotte, my beloved league pass Charlotte team, basically Colin Sexton is just on the side, just coming in. Like that guy in the mid-2000s would have started on playoff teams.

Speaker 2 This is

Speaker 2 a nice observation you're making because I wanted to give out a handful of fuck you's. Hey, Atlanta Hawks, fuck you.
Like, here's the thing, right? It's game one. It's time to show up.

Speaker 2 It's time to show out a little bit. LA Clippers, here's a nice fuck you for you.
Here's here it is. I'll put it on a platter.
I mean, the teams that showed up like, oh,

Speaker 2 you're just going to kind of roll through. I was impressed.
The heat, no fuck you for the heat. Good job, Heat.
Heat competed, right?

Speaker 1 No here. Yeah, they did.

Speaker 2 Norm Powell was up for it.

Speaker 1 How about Davion Mitchell?

Speaker 2 Davion Mitchell.

Speaker 1 We'd seem like that that had flash in the pan possibilities.

Speaker 1 The Chargers just scored. It's 21 to 3.
This might just be the podcast tonight.

Speaker 2 Good.

Speaker 2 I do have a nice fuck you for the Pistons as well. Like, just want to give one out for the Pistons.

Speaker 1 Well, I want to get to them in a second. So, the aspiration guy and the clippers,

Speaker 1 by the way, I googled aspiration to see if there's a logo because I was going to do a joke and send it to you. Okay.

Speaker 1 And when you Google Aspiration, the first thing that comes up is how it's people that choke on their own vomit.

Speaker 2 And what? How can that be? That's when you asked. Aspiration.
Yes, the physical phenomena. Yes, right.
Yeah, that is, I guess, I'm surprised that you're not going to be able to do that

Speaker 2 after choking on your own vomit.

Speaker 1 Why was that the charity? No wonder it went under.

Speaker 2 That's such a great, great joke.

Speaker 2 We missed this joke. I don't know.
It took me forever. It's been going on for two months now.
We missed this joke. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 Balmer choked on his own vomit and $50 million.

Speaker 2 Uncle Dennis didn't choke. Uncle Dennis got all that cash.

Speaker 1 Next category. Now we're dropping off.
This category is called Let's See in March. I got Dallas here and I got Milwaukee here for different reasons.
Dallas,

Speaker 1 I just, I want to go on the record really emphatically.

Speaker 1 This flag playing point guard thing is fucking stupid. It's stupid.
Stop, Jason Kidd. We know you got your extension.
We know you lucked out with the lottery.

Speaker 1 We know you did this with Giannis in Milwaukee, but this is not the right way to bring in a kid who's not even 19 and who doesn't know what kind of basketball player he is yet, but it clearly is special.

Speaker 1 You're putting all this extra stuff on him that I think is ridiculous. I don't understand.
As soon as Kyrie comes back, he's never playing point guard again. What is the point of this?

Speaker 2 Who's supposed to play point guard for them?

Speaker 1 Play D'Angelo Russell and Nemhard. Like, who cares? Okay, it's October.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well,

Speaker 1 what I don't want to do is have flag dribbling the ball up against

Speaker 1 Castle and people like that. Like, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 You mean guys will just go take the ball from him?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's not a point guard. He's six, eight and a half.
He's played forward his whole life.

Speaker 1 I just, I hated it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 Anthony Davis.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Moving into a different phase of his career. Watch.

Speaker 2 Well, it's game one. I'm not on it yet.

Speaker 1 Game one.

Speaker 2 But I just didn't love the bot. Here's the thing, right? Let's see.

Speaker 1 He's been in the lead since 2012. Let's see a big guy, and big guys don't usually age well.

Speaker 2 We want to see them play a team that doesn't have,

Speaker 2 I mean, we have to come up with some way to describe Wembiana that's not unicorn. It's so superior to unicorn.
The most superior iteration of a unique beast.

Speaker 1 Which is Wemby. How about just Wemby? Yes.

Speaker 1 He's a Wemby corn.

Speaker 2 He's a Wembicorn. Sure.
Good.

Speaker 2 Let's see Dallas when they're not playing the Wembicorn because they're like them not having an answer for that. Maybe we can show them some grace.

Speaker 1 Who do they play tomorrow? They play OHOMA against your Wizards. That's a great.

Speaker 2 Great. Great one.
That'll clear out all the bad taste that I'm. Perfect.

Speaker 1 Yes. That sounds awesome.
So anyway, I want to,

Speaker 1 I still think I like their players and their team. I'm still bullish on them.
Okay. Milwaukee's the other one.

Speaker 1 Giannis looked like Giannis again. Porter got hurt during the game, but,

Speaker 1 you know, they beat a bad team. But I'm still bullish on Milwaukee as

Speaker 1 being a mid-tie 40s team.

Speaker 2 They are dedicated to.

Speaker 2 If they are dedicated to the bit, they came out and shot the three ball excellent and if that's what they want to do right because they were the best percentage-wise three-point shooting team in the league but they were underutilizing it volume wise well five of their first eight made baskets were threes they won the basketball game in the first six minutes now this might be a common theme when you play the wizards but they they got up by by 20 they they were on pace they had uh They were on pace for 200 points in that game.

Speaker 2 They had 25 points in the first six minutes

Speaker 2 because they just were, you know, the ball moved beautifully. Those guys knew exactly where they were going to be.
AJ Green.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they have space because of the shooters. They took care of A.J.
Green.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And they dared Washington to rotate defensively, and it didn't happen.
They just knocked down threes.

Speaker 1 I like the concept theoretically of Giannis and shooting.

Speaker 2 Me too.

Speaker 1 And then Turner with Giannis defensively, I think is going to matter. And I fill him in on that team.

Speaker 2 It all makes sense.

Speaker 1 Next group, flawed, but interesting. I have five here.
Lakers, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, and Atlanta. I was down on Detroit before the season.
It was one of my underlocks.

Speaker 1 I think if I was a Detroit fan, what would disturb me is I'm playing Chicago, a team that's not going to make the playoffs.

Speaker 1 And if you knew nothing and you were just watching the game, you would think they were equal

Speaker 1 talent-wise, right? That's not an inside for Detroit.

Speaker 2 My problem was the effort. Like

Speaker 2 they have guys

Speaker 2 with the motor. Like, that's what Ron Holland is for.
That's what Durin is for. Like,

Speaker 2 the role guys are supposed to help

Speaker 2 the starters.

Speaker 2 Are they discombobulated because Ivy is out again? Like, what's the explanation?

Speaker 1 Ivy's out. I just don't think with Ivy out, I just don't think from a talent standpoint, they're that special unless Cade goes up another level.
So I'm just flawed, but interesting.

Speaker 1 I'm not ruling them out, ruling them in, but my instinct was that people were throwing them in this like East fringe contender conversation. I'm the opposite.

Speaker 1 I think they're closer to being a play-in team.

Speaker 2 They had to outscore the Bulls by 11 in the fourth quarter to make it

Speaker 2 competitive down the stretch.

Speaker 1 Lakers, I did not have as one of my playoff teams.

Speaker 2 And I have them losing in the play-in. You gave them out as a play-in.

Speaker 1 Have them playing and I have them losing in the play-in. And the reason is because I don't think they're going to be able to guard anybody.
And then you watched an opening night.

Speaker 1 Golden State should have won that game by 25. Sure.

Speaker 2 Could have multiple times, multiple ways they could have won that game by 25.

Speaker 1 And I know they didn't have LeBron, but LeBron is now in his 40s. And I don't think you can count on him in a real way for a regular season like you could have in even 2018.

Speaker 2 The Lakers aren't good enough. They don't have enough talent.

Speaker 1 That's all. And I don't, I don't necessarily even, I'm not positive they care about this season.
I think it's more of a...

Speaker 2 Good point.

Speaker 1 Let's just take some chances. We have some expirings.
Let's kind of see where we go. They extended JJ before the year, which I said to you and Zach two weeks ago, I thought was

Speaker 1 interesting. It made it seem like, hey, no matter what happens, we believe in this infrastructure.

Speaker 1 I don't, I think they're one of the six or seven worst offensive teams in the league.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I don't know. How would you handicap the likelihood that sometime here in the next, I don't know, 30 days, maybe even less, that we get word that this is going to be LeBron's retirement tour?

Speaker 1 Are you asking me because you want to tell Damon Jones of Black Tony?

Speaker 2 Well, Damon Jones already knows.

Speaker 1 Damon Jones already knows.

Speaker 2 I need Damon Jones to tell me and Pookie. Me and Pookie.

Speaker 1 I do not think LeBron is retiring. I think he's going to play until he's 45.
Okay. I think LeBron and Aaron Rodgers are just going to keep going and going.

Speaker 1 Lakers, very suspicious. I just don't think when you compare them to some of these teams in the West, like Houston and San Antonio, like Minnesota, these teams are young.

Speaker 2 Go guy by guy, position by position. They're not good enough.

Speaker 1 They're not good enough.

Speaker 1 We'll see. I've counted out the Lakers before in previous years, and then all of a sudden they went eight in a row.
I just, I, Luca would have to go on a fucking heater.

Speaker 2 Remember, again, Dorian Finney Smith

Speaker 2 really helped change the trajectory of that team because they really found a defensive identity. Like, it's crazy shit like that that can happen.

Speaker 1 Um, Toronto looked great. Toronto.
That might have been one of my big misses.

Speaker 2 I, it was a Joe House lock. I don't remember whether or not Zach locked it, but...

Speaker 1 They looked really good. Listen, I'll admit defeat if that is a potential top seven team.

Speaker 2 I believe that it is.

Speaker 1 I thought they played hard. Yes.

Speaker 1 They were long. They're healthy right now.

Speaker 1 Who knows how long that's going to last? But

Speaker 1 they jumped out to me.

Speaker 2 Coach Darko played 11 guys.

Speaker 2 If they're going to play with that level of intensity and make sure that everybody gets the feels, gets the touches, they're going to be tough. You made fun of you.
I mean, I liked when I said to you.

Speaker 2 Oh, I did make fun of you.

Speaker 2 I did. The Oklahoma City, like, you know, they want to try that kind of blueprint, which is get out in transition, try and force turnovers, try and be a defensive presence.
And they won

Speaker 2 fast break points by like 20, and they had 86 points in the paint. In 138 points they scored, 86 of them were points in the paint because they kept going to the goddamn rim.
Impressive. That's all.

Speaker 2 I'll stop.

Speaker 1 This was my overreaction game because Toronto kills Atlanta. And Toronto, I'm with you.
What I liked about what I saw from Toronto,

Speaker 1 they clearly know what they want to be.

Speaker 1 And what they wanted to be was athletic and they want to push and they want to go and they want to go and they want to go.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't know if it was just because they were playing Atlanta or that's who they are, but there was an identity they had that I wasn't expecting on the flip side, Atlanta, who was a team we were high on, and then the over-under got too high.

Speaker 1 And I think that scared all of us. It got to like 47 and a half.

Speaker 1 So this is one of those things where you can look at something on paper forever and then you have to actually see it on a basketball court.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, maybe I've seen too many games over the years, but I was immediately like,

Speaker 2 oh, no,

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 they're not going to be able to rebound house. And forget about like the transition defense and some of the other issues in that game.
But you have Porzingis. They started Porzingis.

Speaker 1 He's 25 feet from the basket. You got Trey Young.
You have Jalen Johnson, Daniels, some other shooter.

Speaker 1 There's no rebounder. And one of the things with Porzingis, when the Celtics would play him, like Tatum, Tatum was, you know, one of the best 20 rebounders in the league.

Speaker 1 The team was a gang rebounding team.

Speaker 1 I really was worried about Atlanta after watching them.

Speaker 2 And maybe it's going to take a while for the pieces to fit together, but it was a team that didn't make sense to me as I watched it did you see it um it did not make sense and there are a couple culprits the rebounding is is concerning it it could be okong wu he like that's his his his job and jalen johnson got seven and poor zangus got seven and you know

Speaker 2 they got it they got here they got dealt with on the boards though here's the issue man

Speaker 2 Let me ask you the, I'll put it to you in the form of a question. Who do you think took the most field goals last night? Do you already know the answer?

Speaker 1 I don't. Who was it?

Speaker 2 Nikhil Alexander Walker took 15 fucking field goal attempts last night. He was two for 15 from the field.
What in the fuck is going on in Atlanta?

Speaker 2 Like, seriously, you built this team and had an idea for who you're going to put out there. How is he taking the most shots on the team? How is that possible?

Speaker 2 In 26, 28 minutes, he took 15 field goal attempts. How?

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 2 How does that make any sense?

Speaker 1 I don't like it. I'm not writing them off, but my blink test watching them was like, ah,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know if these guys all make sense together.
We'll see. But

Speaker 1 I definitely cooled on them a tiny bit. But they can win me back in the next week.
And then Philly, I watched that entire game.

Speaker 2 I bet you did.

Speaker 1 It's really interesting because MB just looks like he's done.

Speaker 1 And who knows if he can come back, but he can't really jump anymore. He can't, you know, they, every time they really did well was when he wasn't out there, including the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 They just didn't bring him back because he was on a quote-unquote minutes limit. But the Maxie and VJ together was just the most electric.
The VJ thing's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 The big, the big thing on him coming out of the draft was this guy's an incredible athlete. He can't finish.
He has terrible finishing stats.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you, he finished the fuck out of the Celtic game.

Speaker 1 He is finishing everything and he is competitive and he's got a swagger to him. And him and Max are together.
That's the future of that team. The Sixers fans should be over the moon about this.

Speaker 1 They're going to, you know, the Embiid thing, the extension, disaster.

Speaker 1 George, disaster. But all of it led to them getting the third pick in the draft and getting rejuvenated with this guy who looks like 2005 Dwayne Wade.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's stunning. It's stunning.

Speaker 2 We'll just leave it.

Speaker 1 That was other than Wemby. It was the most stunning thing of the week.

Speaker 2 The confidence,

Speaker 2 game speed, he was there for all of it. The basketball IQ is off the effing charts.

Speaker 1 He moves when he doesn't have the ball. If he's in the corner,

Speaker 1 he's my favorite kind of guy where he's still thinking of stuff to do, even if he's not involved in the play. It's like, oh, can I back cut? Ooh, can I get an offensive rebound?

Speaker 1 Oh, can I come flying in for a jam?

Speaker 1 He's up up to stuff all the time.

Speaker 2 How many phone calls do you think Daryl in the second half was making? Like, hey,

Speaker 2 we know that that Paul George contract. We know that, you know, they'll be the extra year, but let's figure out a way.
Like, how many?

Speaker 1 Oh, I thought you were saying Daryl was calling his wife being like, I have good news.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be keeping my job for the next few years because BJF comes fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 Well, that, and also, they need to get Paul George off that team, away from this team as quickly as possible there is there is it's a i don't know how they're gonna do that it's a zero proposition zero sum

Speaker 1 also like we talked about leap guys when we did the over-unders

Speaker 1 and i think i'd like to i'd like to uh belatedly include maxi in that combo he deserves it oh does he deserve it

Speaker 1 he would he was downhill constantly And I thought the Celtics, they didn't shoot well, but they played really hard. And the reason they lost was because they weren't making threes.
And then,

Speaker 1 ironically, Keita fouled out. And Luca Garza was in concussion protocol.
So they had to play Xavier Tillman in the last two minutes of the game. And he missed the big shot.
But

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 1 VJ and Maxie thing, attack, attack, attack, attack. And Embiid just doesn't fit in with it.
So I don't know what they do.

Speaker 2 Just play him the 20 minutes. It's totally fine.
He's a role player.

Speaker 1 He's going to be miserable.

Speaker 2 He'll make everyone. Who cares? No,

Speaker 2 if they permit that to happen, then we'll know for sure. Then we'll be having podcasts with Daryl.

Speaker 1 How about LeBron for Embiid right now?

Speaker 1 Who's

Speaker 1 you paused?

Speaker 2 Well, the Lakers have to say no, no, no.

Speaker 2 I don't know. Like he's a 20-minute player.
who, you know,

Speaker 2 should be able to get you a handful of rebounds.

Speaker 1 I like Embiid. I hope it comes back, but it doesn't seem like his right leg works anymore.
He's fine.

Speaker 2 I don't say this with any joy. This is end of career Greg Odin shit.
This is what Greg Odin looked like after, you know, the last series of

Speaker 2 surgeries that he had, and he tried one last time to come back. That's what Embiid looks like to me.

Speaker 1 I hope he can come back.

Speaker 2 It did not look good. It's better for the league.

Speaker 1 It's bad for Philly that it's like we have to keep him out of the game if we want to win. Water Treaders, Boston, Memphis, Miami, and Indiana.
We don't even talk about them.

Speaker 1 League pass all-stars, next category.

Speaker 2 People in Memphis are going to be mad that we're just skipping over them.

Speaker 1 They've had 40 injuries already, and they won the first game just because John Morant was awesome.

Speaker 1 They handle their business. They're 30 to 45 games a year.

Speaker 2 They handle their business at home against New Orleans. And New Orleans

Speaker 2 jump out to a lead. I mean, you know.

Speaker 1 But look at the group, though. Boston, Memphis, Miami, Indiana.
They're treading water, waiting to see who they're going to be.

Speaker 1 I think that Memphis is fair. League Pass All-Stars, Charlotte, New Orleans, and Chicago.
New Orleans, I think, Zion looked really good.

Speaker 1 And they have fun players in that team. And I just think they're going to be a fun team to watch.
Chicago, same thing because of the pace. And then Charlotte was a revelation.
I like Kalk Brenner.

Speaker 1 I'm just going on the record. Sure.
I think he's a real NBA player. I think he's a 30-minute game big guy.
I agree. I make it.
And we went into the season going, like, Charlotte doesn't have big guys.

Speaker 1 They're not going to be. But

Speaker 1 they have multiple guards.

Speaker 2 It was against Brooklyn, to be fair, but yes.

Speaker 1 Well, they were playing a G-League team.

Speaker 2 Yes, they were.

Speaker 1 But they have like semi-competent big guys and then Knipple. And I just like them.

Speaker 1 Next category, Wait, where's our coach? That's Portland. The next category is why are we here? Phoenix and Sacramento.
What a battle that was.

Speaker 2 Don't show disrespect to Phoenix. This is going to be an ongoing theme.
I honestly

Speaker 2 kind of like directionally what Phoenix, this is at least a team that makes a little bit of sense.

Speaker 1 More sense than last year.

Speaker 2 makes more sense than last year and i honestly think the good people of phoenix deserve after that hot turd they were served for an entire season last year of unmet expectations and guys that didn't like playing with each other i think this team does like play i like what i'm seeing out of them thus far one game in i'll just leave it at that

Speaker 1 Well, I have them as either the fourth or fifth worst basketball team in the league. That's fine.

Speaker 1 And the other team that they were battling with was Sacramento, who that game came down to the last minute. It did.
Last category is is dumping for Darren, Utah, Washington, and Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 Utah is the best of the three. Darren is the Darren Peterson.

Speaker 1 What do you think?

Speaker 2 If Utah really tried,

Speaker 2 how many games do you think they could win? If they competed high 20s. Okay, I was going to say low 30s.
So I'm glad we're on the same page.

Speaker 1 All right. That segment was way longer than I expected.
We're going to take a break and then do Ringer 107.

Speaker 2 It's just the NBA. What do you want us to do?

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All right, House, Ringer 107. We went three and two last week.
Felt like four and one was in play and we couldn't pull it off.

Speaker 1 We were one game under 500, but we've been slowly clawing back.

Speaker 1 And it's a bye-week week this week. These are the dangerous weeks when you can't find five games, but you still have to do the five games.

Speaker 1 I'd like to request that we stay away from Eagles, Giants, and Chiefs, Washington with higher lines.

Speaker 1 I just want no part of that Eagles, Giants game. I want no part of the Chiefs, you know, favored by nine and a half against your team with Mariota.

Speaker 2 Is it only nine and a half?

Speaker 2 Is it higher than that? I thought it was much higher.

Speaker 1 Oh, maybe it's higher. Regardless, we're staying away.
Okay. I have three maybes for you.

Speaker 1 Jets, Bengals. Jets are favored by, or Jets are getting six and a half in Cincinnati.
I don't want to bet this game. I really don't.

Speaker 1 Jets 27th DBOA, Cincinnati 29th. But the line is so high, it's like

Speaker 1 trying to sucker you into betting the Jets.

Speaker 2 It's like this isn't to take the Jets.

Speaker 1 So Bengals should just be favored by three. And it's like, here, we'll give you three and a half extra points to take the Jets.

Speaker 2 You're supposed to take the Jets. You're supposed to do it.

Speaker 1 It's like it's a

Speaker 1 criterion collection had this 50 off flash sale it's it's i have all the blu-rays i want and i was like all right i'll look anyway it's like this this is a flash sale of three and a half extra points it's tyrod too right we think staying away okay i'm not betting on the jets we bet on the jets and we do i know it just sucks it does suck

Speaker 1 falcons dolphins falcons minus seven and a half I have this as a maybe

Speaker 1 only because

Speaker 1 you have the Atlanta offense fourth against the run, Miami's defense 32nd against the run. They didn't fire Mike McDaniel last week.
Atlanta's defense is first against the pass, seventh yard per play.

Speaker 1 Miami's offense, pretty much terrible across the board, coming off one of the worst games we've seen anyone play in the last couple years. Falcons minus seven and a half.
The hook scares me a little.

Speaker 1 Not me.

Speaker 2 Got to play Falcons. This is Falcons at home.
The only thing I wondered about was Pennix, right?

Speaker 1 So you want me to move this up? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Somebody rolled up on him. There was like an ankle kind of thing, and he didn't practice.
They had their walkthrough on Wednesday. He did do limited practice taping the business.

Speaker 1 They have a $40 million backup.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing I was wondering about. Now, we're going to play it at seven and a half.

Speaker 2 We can't get out of that.

Speaker 1 This is going to be your pick.

Speaker 2 I'm definitely. I mean, as long as Miami, the Miami Dolphins put...

Speaker 2 Tua out on the football field as their starting quarterback and their head coach is Mike McDaniel, you must bet the other side of it. I don't even know what the number is that would scare me off.

Speaker 2 It ain't this. It's not seven and a half in Atlanta.
We think Atlanta is good when they play at home. We think their defense is good.

Speaker 1 This is so. This is something we've been on for the last couple of weeks.
Teams you're only allowed to bet on at home because there's another one coming up. Right.
I like Atlanta as a home team.

Speaker 1 Me too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think they roll. I think they smash.
And I hope Miami continues to just bring Tua and Mike McDaniel out week after week so we can keep betting the other side.

Speaker 1 I can't believe Mike McDaniel's come back. All right, I moved that into the

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 1 into the yes category. Last one in the maybe's was Saints Bucks.
Saints plus four and a half at home against Tampa.

Speaker 1 I like the Saints at home a little more than anywhere else.

Speaker 2 Learned my lesson last week.

Speaker 1 New Orleans. Well, last week we kind of fucked that up.
That was your pick, but I supported it. And a lot of the reasons we took Miami, went against Miami and Cleveland, bad weather, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And then New Orleans is playing outdoors in bad weather, and we have New Orleans.

Speaker 2 Yeah, wrong.

Speaker 1 And yet Chicago still was like dying to let them hang around in that game.

Speaker 2 Literally, the freaking

Speaker 2 hook and ladder that the guy threw a forward pass on. It was about to be a game, potential game-altering.
The trajectory of that game was in doubt. Rattler put the ball.

Speaker 2 Oh, you gave the ball away too many times. I don't want to talk about it.
So

Speaker 1 New Orleans at home lost, came back against Arizona and San Francisco and almost won, but lost.

Speaker 1 They beat the Giants at home and they lost to the Pats at home in a game that the refs tried to steal from the Pats.

Speaker 1 They're only averaging an 18-day game. I don't know who's playing for the Bucs.
My instinct leans toward the Saints, but I don't really want to have them again. I didn't enjoy it last week.

Speaker 1 I don't know how long is Rattler going to be the starter?

Speaker 1 Are they going to start tanking soon? There's a tanking strategy for them. So let's stay away.
All right.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we dabbled with the Saints. That's enough.
It's like, you know,

Speaker 1 there's a parlay possibility, House. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We have the Colts minus 14.5 against the Titans. We can use their money line or some sort of version of it because they're going to kill the Titans.

Speaker 2 Could also just lay the points. Could also lay the points.

Speaker 1 Patriots against the Browns. Pats minus seven.

Speaker 1 Cleveland's offense is just horrible. 28th rush, 30th pass, 27 first downs.
I know their defense is good, but I do think the Pats defense,

Speaker 1 this is a perfect game for them because they're really good at stopping the run.

Speaker 1 You could throw in them a little bit, but Cleveland has Dylan Gabriel.

Speaker 1 This New England fan base is so fired up by this Patriots team.

Speaker 1 They haven't had like a kick-ass home game yet. They had that the Carolina game, it was like in doubt for an hour, and then they came back and won.
But I think this could be the kick-ass game.

Speaker 1 Once you go up 13, the game's over.

Speaker 2 I totally agree with this the only modest proposal i would like to make as we think about the idea of a of a parlay a money line parlay here is

Speaker 2 i honestly would rather because it's is we don't have a lot of choices on the card this week use the colts let the colts lay the points with the colts uh

Speaker 2 and use the chiefs parlay the chiefs and the patriots we might we might have enough though because well the other one i was going to throw in was the ravens against the bears at home that that one you you wonder you know where I'm coming from on this.

Speaker 2 Ravens. Not only that, like, can I borrow some money from somebody?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is the first playoff game of the year with the Ravens. This is kitchen sink.
We have to win. We have Caleb.
I made this prediction on Tuesday's pod.

Speaker 1 We did one crazy prediction, me and the fantasy guys, that Tyson Bagett as the starter for the Bears by week 13. Wow.
Caleb was not good in that New Orleans game.

Speaker 2 Wow. He was not.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 parlay of Ravens, Patriots, and Colts minus 1.5 gets us under the minus 120. Pats to win, Ravens to win.
Colts win by two. It's minus 117 on FanDuel,

Speaker 1 and we can do that and win.

Speaker 2 Well, what are the remainder games? What are the games are we?

Speaker 1 I'm just putting that in.

Speaker 2 Okay. I mean, I'm just

Speaker 1 that might be one of my picks. All right, here are the possibles.
Texans, minus one and a half against the 49ers. Houston's two and four.
Four of those games were on the road.

Speaker 1 Their next three are at home. They're eighth in DBOA somehow.

Speaker 2 Coming off this defense is sick.

Speaker 1 Their defense is awesome. Coming off this ugly Seattle game, right, where they couldn't block.

Speaker 1 But guess what? Seattle has an awesome defense and they were home and it was a Monday night and they were maniacs the whole game. I'm in on Houston's defense.

Speaker 1 I thought that, like, talk about hats on the ballhouse.

Speaker 1 It was one of those eight guys tackling every Seattle guy. They even got a penalty because they had too many guys continue to tackle somebody.

Speaker 1 Their defense, third in DBOA, it's only given up 14.7 points a game. They're going against Mac Jones.
They're going against the San Francisco team that

Speaker 1 was able to scotch tape a defense last week and do a bunch of shit that now you can just watch the tape and be like, oh, they're doing this. Let's do this instead.

Speaker 1 They're going to have no pass rush. I don't care if Nico Collins plays or not.
I think Stroud with actual time to throw will be okay. And it's Texans minus one and a half.

Speaker 1 I love the Texans in this spot.

Speaker 2 So I just was scared of this game because I have been on the wrong side of Shanahan and the 49ers too many times this season. Like they just keep, we keep saying here's the thing.

Speaker 1 They're five and two, House.

Speaker 2 We just keep saying, here's the point where it flips for them defensively. Here, you know, Boso, they can't get any pressure on.

Speaker 1 But we had them last week. We took them Sunday night.

Speaker 2 It was, and it was the correct play. Yes.
Right. I know.
But I'm just saying like you know

Speaker 1 this is just like i just want to bet the houston defense in this game houston defense against mac jones the contest we have at four offensive line yeah it's your pick i i i'm lukewarm on it you're lukewarm yeah okay

Speaker 2 i like it i don't think houston's going two and five i don't like if they lose this game their season's over this is a kitchen change i just want to proof i want to see like one great quarter of offense when it's not against the Titans.

Speaker 2 Counter.

Speaker 1 This is a classic. Niners look probably better than they are on Sunday night.
Okay. Houston looked worse than they are.
They're in a bad situation for the team they have on a Monday night. Okay.

Speaker 1 And this line should probably be two and a half or higher.

Speaker 2 Well, it's two and a half now for the purposes of our contest. We got it at one and a half.
It's published at one and a half. We're playing it one and a half.

Speaker 2 The public is going to have to ride the market.

Speaker 1 I want to make sure. So it's definitely, I want to make sure we don't cheat.

Speaker 2 No, it's two and a half right now, but I believe for one and a half. Yeah, we have it at one and a half.
I know. I know it's locked at one and a half for the purposes of the contest.

Speaker 1 Next one.

Speaker 1 I want you to talk me out of this because I like it. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against Buffalo.
We talked about Carolina at home, how they're a different team.

Speaker 1 Dalton, Bryce Young, I don't think it matters.

Speaker 1 Carolina's third rushing attack this year, third in rush yards. Buffalo 31st against the run.
They are getting their two suspended D linemen back. Carolina's D's not terrible.

Speaker 1 15th DBOA, eighth against the rush. It is betting against Josh Allen.
Josh Allen against bad teams has been money. But the seven and a half, like, even that's

Speaker 1 like a cheap touchdown late.

Speaker 2 We can't do it.

Speaker 2 I'll take it. Time me out of it.
I'll take the L. Here's why.

Speaker 2 The Bills lost two games in a row and then had a buy.

Speaker 2 And they have Josh Allen. They're going to come off the buy with Josh Allen and lose another game.

Speaker 2 They're going to lose to the Patriots.

Speaker 1 This line should be four and a half.

Speaker 2 They're going to lose to the Patriots, the Falcons, and the Panthers. Okay.
I mean, we're talking about the fact that the line still has some inflation in it.

Speaker 2 Like we're not giving Carolina enough credit.

Speaker 2 I agree with all of that.

Speaker 2 Seven and a half, though. It's still in this modern NFL era, a one-score game at seven and a half.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I might make it one of my picks. I also don't mind the plus 3.10 for them.

Speaker 2 Oh, for the Panthers

Speaker 1 for the actual money line, which we're not doing in these contests. But the case for Buffalo is a couple losses, bye week, getting the guys back on D.
Yes.

Speaker 1 We're going to show everybody our defense is actually back.

Speaker 2 And that's what my fear is with this is you're like, oh, oh my god why do we bet against josh allams the seven and a half is high they can get rolling though that's the problem we thought that that might happen in that atlanta game but atlanta really had a great pass rush uh at home and a very good game plan

Speaker 2 and they just ran the ball ran the ball ran the ball ken carol so they have here's the other case for this they have the chiefs next week buffalo

Speaker 1 So is this a Milton Burrell

Speaker 1 pull out enough to win? Get in, get out. Let's not do too much.
Let's not get anyone hurt.

Speaker 2 Backdoor Chiefs. They could be up 14 in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 That's what I thought. The seven and a half is huge.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 All right. Mark it down.

Speaker 1 Cowboys plus three and a half at Denver.

Speaker 1 All the advanced stats say Dallas is a better team. They're ninth in DBOA.
Denver's 14th. Dallas's offense, top four, second in yards per play.

Speaker 1 Denver's defense, first in yards per play, which is good.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 the question for me is the Cowboys, I just think, are going to score every week against whoever, right?

Speaker 1 Can Denver match points with them?

Speaker 1 I think this line's just too high.

Speaker 1 They get in the hook. I feel like this should be like Broncos one and a half.

Speaker 1 I think these teams might be even. I've been really impressed by Dallas.

Speaker 2 As have I. As have I.

Speaker 1 I think they're well coached.

Speaker 2 I said out loud on many programs last week that I didn't think that Washington, I had to puff my chest out because it was Dallas week, but

Speaker 2 it was fraught. That was was a fraught.

Speaker 1 That was our big miss last week, not taking Dallas.

Speaker 1 By Sunday, that would have been.

Speaker 1 And I loved it.

Speaker 2 I bet it as well.

Speaker 1 So if Dallas wins this, if Dallas can somehow win this in Denver, Cardinals next week, bye week, and then they're at Vegas on Monday Night Football.

Speaker 1 Like there's actually a path for them to be a playoff team, but I think they need this game.

Speaker 2 Why did they get blown out? by the Bears?

Speaker 1 CeeDee Lamb got hurt.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 And then a couple coverage breakdowns.

Speaker 2 And just couldn't adjust on the fly quickly enough. They just couldn't.

Speaker 1 Why did the Patriots lose to the Raiders?

Speaker 2 First game of the season. That's all.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm just wondering with the first three weeks of the year, do we just,

Speaker 1 you know, Green Bay killed the Troy. Would that happen now?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't think so.

Speaker 1 All right. Cowboys plus three and a half.
We're marking this down. The Bo Knicks thing, he just can't, it takes him two hours to be decent.

Speaker 2 You're not going to, I don't know the circumstance. There will be a circumstance where I'm comfortable.
They're laying less than the field goal, maybe.

Speaker 2 Against, I don't know. I'm not sure who the opponent has to be.
No, sir.

Speaker 2 Look, I asked him to shove it in my face against the Eagles, and he did it. Right.
He led them to 18 points in the fourth quarter against the Eagles on the road in Philly.

Speaker 1 And Dak against a really good Denver defense, which I think he can throw on. But Dak's just been one of the best four four players in the league this year.
He can throw on.

Speaker 1 Cowboys post three and a half. We'll mark that down.

Speaker 1 Packers, Steelers.

Speaker 1 Packers favored by three in Pittsburgh. And normally you would say, oh, Pittsburgh, Tomlin, home.

Speaker 1 It's a

Speaker 1 smash spot.

Speaker 1 Can I make a Packers case for you?

Speaker 2 I'm going to listen.

Speaker 2 While I look something up here, real quick.

Speaker 1 You seem like you've lost interest in the...

Speaker 2 No, I'm I thought it was three and a half.

Speaker 1 No, for our contest.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's three.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Minus 120. Look at how they price that thing.
I know.

Speaker 1 Sunday night game. If this was a Sunday 1 p.m.
game, I'd be afraid to take Green Bay. Sunday night game, the lights are on.
And I do think this team has the lights are on. They have that side to them.

Speaker 1 DVOA, Green Bay's 6th, Pittsburgh's 10th. Pittsburgh's defense, 31st against the pass, 31st against first downs, 25th on third down.
And if you look at their wins, barely beat the Jets week one.

Speaker 1 Fields' last great game ever.

Speaker 2 Probably ever.

Speaker 1 They beat the Pats because the Pats turned the ball over five fucking times and fumbled on the goal line and threw a goal line pick.

Speaker 1 They beat Minnesota by three points in Ireland with Carson Wentz.

Speaker 1 And they beat Cleveland, who sucks. Well, no.

Speaker 2 Those are their four wins. It was Cleveland coming off their international game with Dylan Gabriel, who, you know,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 1 All they did was, then they lost to Joe Flacco last week.

Speaker 1 26th against the run. Green Bay second against the run, their defense.
So I don't think they're going to be able to run the ball. So this would have to be an Aaron Rodgers beats us game.

Speaker 1 And granted, going against Green Bay, but this just feels like a square, oh, Steelers, Tomlin and home, Rodgers revenge game. And it's like, how about this?

Speaker 1 We thought the Packers were a potential Super Bowl team before the year. Like, you win this game if you're going to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 That would be the case.

Speaker 2 I don't have the time to go look and see what it opened at. It was three and a half for quite a bit of this week, and I thought it was a great Steelers situation.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 The three is not a great number. I don't love.

Speaker 1 Packers minus three. Yeah, I don't.
Would you worried about the push?

Speaker 2 Well, no, I just mean from the Steelers' perspective.

Speaker 2 I like it much better with them, you know, dogfight with the hook.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I want to take the Packers.

Speaker 2 I understand that. This is what I'm I had a case prepared for the Steelers.

Speaker 1 With the hook. With the hook.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah, the hook feels pretty vital to me.

Speaker 2 Because look, here's the thing that Pittsburgh has been unable to address all season long. They give up explosives like, you know, like it's Pookie and Black Tony giving out,

Speaker 2 you know, injury advice

Speaker 2 before

Speaker 2 a Trailblazers game. I mean, they just can't wait to let somebody throw the football down the field.
And that is one thing for sure that Jordan Love can do.

Speaker 2 It's one thing for sure that the Packers can do. They can throw the football down the football field.

Speaker 1 I also, you know, they've definitely been spotty the last few weeks. There's no question, right? And they've had like Jacobs was in 100%, Jordan Love.

Speaker 1 The pace of their, they had that terrible Cleveland game. Just terrible.

Speaker 2 I like the zag. You know what?

Speaker 2 I'm feeling the zag. I'm feeling it.

Speaker 1 You're kidding me. Like a Sunday night, the Packers.

Speaker 1 It's a narrative game where we come out of that game. We're like, oh, the Packers, maybe they are.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because everybody was ready to write off the Packers after they looked so dominant the first two weeks. And then they showed some inconsistency.
The Dallas tie

Speaker 2 not looking good.

Speaker 1 The Dallas Tie were Dak was just unbelievable in that game. The reason they tied, they scored 40 points.

Speaker 2 So why wouldn't they score 40 points against pittsburgh you know i'm i'm here i'm here i'm i like this let's do this yeah i like this

Speaker 1 so we're looking at i think we have our five then

Speaker 1 that was easy on a short week we somehow have five picks apologies to the panthers they didn't make the cut this episode is brought to you by netflix All right, here's the deal.

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Speaker 1 All right, House, here we go. Today's Ringer 107, the BS House Edition, is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.
We are one game under 500 for this season. We are 16 and 17.

Speaker 1 And we were 0-7 in games that could have gone either way.

Speaker 1 Or something weird happened in the last three minutes. And then we finally had some luck on Sunday with the Minnesota Vikings where we had them in a parlay.
They were, what, plus seven and a half?

Speaker 2 Plus seven and a half.

Speaker 1 They're down six. Eagles get this long played A.J.
Brown, and it's like, oh my God, they're going to get a field goal. We're going to get screwed again.

Speaker 1 And they do some wacky time thing where they run out the clock and they don't have to take the field goal. It was the first time anything's gone our way

Speaker 1 all year in a stupid situation like that. So that makes me feel good.
First one, we're going to do

Speaker 1 your pick, the Falcons, just to blow out the Dolphins. Falcons, minus seven and a half at home.
We love the Falcons as a home team. Sure do.

Speaker 1 We just feel like at this point to be able to bet against Tua and Mike McDaniel, much like watching Victor Wembadiama right now, a privilege.

Speaker 2 I mean, we can go X's and O's.

Speaker 2 We can talk about how dominant the Falcons Falcons rush attack has been, how incredible Bijan has been, how destitute the Dolphins run defenses, how the Dolphins' offensive line is an abomination, and the pressure that the Falcons can bring.

Speaker 1 How they can't stop the run.

Speaker 2 We can do all those things, but we don't really need to.

Speaker 2 You just have to look at mixtape, Mike, one time, take a snapshot of that dude at his press conference and be like, I'm betting against that guy.

Speaker 1 This is the, I wish I wasn't going against Bijan Robinson Fantasy Week. Falcons, minus seven and a half.
That's our first one. They should be able to hopefully run it up.

Speaker 1 We like the Falcons as zone team. Next one, Texans, minus one and a half at home against 49ers.
This is a bet on the Houston defense in a kitchen sink situation going against Mac Jones and a

Speaker 1 Niners defense that's just scotch tape, duct tape, and glue and some thumbtacks.

Speaker 2 I just want to say I respect San Francisco. I'm hoping that the football gods look favorably.

Speaker 1 How about this? They don't need the game. Okay.
They're five and two. This is an AFC cross thing.
I get it.

Speaker 2 That's a

Speaker 2 knockdown drag out that NFC West.

Speaker 1 I believe in that Houston defense.

Speaker 1 I thought what they did Monday night as their offensive line was just murdering them and Stroud was murdering them and their defense over and over again was like, fine, we'll get the ball back again.

Speaker 1 Great. Cowboys plus three and a half against the Broncos is our next one.
This is in Denver. This is, we think these teams are pretty even.
Dak is a top three or top four guy in the league.

Speaker 1 and if it's a shootout or a back and forth with bow nicks i'd like to have my money on dak i also think there's backdoor potential even if they're down 10 late sure of them scoring again and we both like this cowboys team we do yeah i i i'm just you know

Speaker 2 once again in a position where bow nicks might shove it right in my face just

Speaker 1 as we're doing ringer 107 the vikings are down by 21 to the chargers and That was a potential playoff,

Speaker 1 you know, competitor for the, for Dallas to get that six seed or seven seed. So if you can shove the Vikings out of there, you get Caleb to self-combust with the Bears.

Speaker 2 It's going to be the Falcons and the Cowboys. Not even kidding.
Yeah. Because Washington's out.

Speaker 1 Falcon. Oh, and then Packers-Steelers.
This is a nice zag for us. Sunday night.

Speaker 1 Steelers looking too obvious with Tomlin at home, Pittsburgh. Aaron Rodgers rejuvenation.
But if you go through that Steelers schedule, the wins and some of the stats, it's pretty grim.

Speaker 1 We think there's another level to this Packers team. And every week, somebody goes up and people are like, whoa, that team.
And I think this is a whoa, that team.

Speaker 2 I love Packers. I do like it.

Speaker 1 Packers minus three on the road Sunday night. Then last one, a little parlay.

Speaker 1 Colts down to minus one and a half as they're blowing out Tennessee. We got that.
Pats just to win against Cleveland. Only win, just win by one.

Speaker 2 We're fine.

Speaker 1 And then the Ravens in the ultimate kitchen sink game. They cannot go one and six.
They have to beat the Bears.

Speaker 1 We get to bet against a very shaky Caleb Williams, against a Bears defense with some really good advanced stats going against them, and more importantly, on Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing for the Ravens, and I will separately be betting this. This will be my best bet.
And I don't really even care if ultimately Lamar doesn't end up playing. I mean,

Speaker 2 he practiced.

Speaker 2 There is the hamstring thing. They are healthy for the first time on offense with Picard at fullback and likely at tight end.
And here's the thing for everybody to do when you hear this.

Speaker 2 Go as fast as you can and buy your Derrick Henry. Their whole run game is a 12-personnel run game where Picard and Likely are goddamn dominant.
Go get every Derrick Henry.

Speaker 2 total now because it'll all be seven yards higher.

Speaker 2 Get the number of touches, you know, attempts, all of it.

Speaker 2 Get all your Derrick Henry now, anytime touchdown, the whole kit and caboodle, because those prices are going to be through the roof by Sunday.

Speaker 2 I love the Ravens to absolutely smash the Bears this week.

Speaker 1 Ravens win, Pats win, Colts by minus one and a half over Tennessee, minus 117. That's our last pick.

Speaker 1 Texans, minus one and a half, Colts, Cowboys, plus three and a half, Falcons, minus seven and a half, Packers, minus three.

Speaker 1 That is the ringer 107. It was brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.
Odd subject to change. House, we did it.
We just cruised through a fucking shitload of stuff in an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 I'm proud of us.

Speaker 2 It's pretty good. I mean,

Speaker 2 Albanian Bruce thought that was a pretty goddamn good show. I know.

Speaker 1 Got to get his thoughts later.

Speaker 1 I'll see you at our illegal poker game tonight. I can't.

Speaker 2 Wait. Let me borrow your contacts.

Speaker 1 All right. That's it for the podcast.
Thanks to House. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well.
I will be back on Sunday with the Cuz. Hopefully the Patriots will be six and two.

Speaker 1 Hopefully we won't have any more illegal NBA gambling scandal stuff. And

Speaker 1 I will see you on Sunday night.

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