THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 77 — Can Islam and the West Co-Exist?

Hey everybody, Thought Crime Thursday, all about one topic. One topic.
It's about Islam. It's all about whether or not Islam is compatible with Western civilization.
I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. Email me as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.
Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show. It's a great episode.
It's thoughtful. If you have questions about Islam, we answer a lot of it.
We dive into it. Text it to your friends.
Enjoy it. And email me as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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Okay, everybody, it is Thought Crime Thursday. Welcome in.
We have the gang. We have Blake.
We have Tyler. We have Jack.
And as I should say is, Anshallah, happy Ramadan. Happy Ramadan, Charlie.
We don't honor that around here, and we never will. Blake, what is Ramadan? Ramadan is the holy month in the Islamic calendar.
You can't say a specific time it is because they use a full lunar calendar in Islam, which is a bit shorter than the Gregorian calendar. So Ramadan i want to say july or june a decade ago it's worked its way all the way back to march i think it moves by uh like a couple weeks a year or so and so it'll soon be in winter those will be very chill ramadans because during ramadan if you're a devout muslim you cannot eat and you cannot drink anything even water while the sun is up while the sun is up uh and i think but that so it gets harder it's a harder ramadan in march than it would be in november yeah in the northern hemisphere of course yes so but it did some there's been cases remember when ennis canter he uh and some other muslim basketball players they literally didn't eat all day and then they had to like try to eat and drink stuff right before the basketball game yep exactly it can get really uh crazy uh obviously it can get really extreme if you're one of the as we'll be discussing soon one of the many muslims who've moved to like for example sweden high up there in the uh near the arctic circle you can get to where your day you know when it was in summer in summer, for example, you'll be having a Ramadan fast that's, you know, 18, 19, 20 hours long.
If it goes full 24 hours, the Islamic law is you follow Mecca times. So does that mean that as it keeps moving towards winter that we're going to see more Muslims move northern? Yeah, yeah.
Now, yeah. Now you'll have a Ramadan fast that's like, you know, freaking three hours.
Alaska is going to yeah yeah just go chill out chill out and you know fairbanks this uh this came up for me when when we were at guantanamo so the detainees you know we had to obviously observe ramadan when they were um you know when they were being held and so yeah that's closer to the equator rather than further away. But it was also like, yeah, off of Mecca time, as you say, Blake, and then also, it was that you couldn't, basically, you couldn't, you know, you had to sort of like, leave them alone, completely, I can't get into too much, but you had to sort of leave them alone until after night.
And so after, you know, after sunset, so basically, my entire schedule flipped from you know diurnal to nocturnal so basically it meant i was working night shift all during ramadan because everything was completely off limits in the detainee camps during ramadan and so who was who was the prisoner at that and then jack and who was who was the prisoner during that month right and you have to wonder like who— Interesting question. The question is who actually ends up being the prisoner and who ends up being the warden.
Yeah, and you know, a funny thing about Ramadan is, so it's fasting during the day, but if you've been around some of the restaurants, you may know they tend to feast at night. And so there have been studies indicating that even though it's a month of fasting, the average Muslim gains weight during Ramadan.
Oh, I believe it. because they're pigging out every single night and they put on some pounds.
I'm no fan of Islam, which is what we're going to talk about. But I do kind of admire religious structures that forego the flesh.
Fasting practices I do actually have a soft spot for. I'm not saying I have a soft spot for Islam.
I just do think that more people involving in the limitations of indulgence is generally good. It's respectable.
You know, Charlie, there's actually a Christian tradition that is remarkably similar to what you're describing. What, you mean Lent? Well, Lent is very important and should be embraced, but it's not as extreme as not drinking water.
You know, the ortho bros, though, the ortho bros in Great, it's pretty extreme. They go like full vegan in Orthodox.
And they do 47 days. So they don't take Sundays off.
And it's basically, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's all animal products completely. Wow.
And Blake, what were you going to say? Similar thing. Like, yeah, Orthodox Great Lent is no no oils, no meat, no dairy.
So you're basically down. You're almost it's almost like a diet of like bread and vegetables is kind of what you're encouraged to.
And I think you're sufficiently, you know, if you're if you're going hard at it, I think you're supposed to abstain from sex as well, even if you're like married. Interesting.
So there's of uh stuff that piles of like you're doing great lent then yeah and then similarly uh like catholic lent was more intense like the traditional catholic lent was no meat all of lent and they totally like gone softball on that where it's only on fridays and that used to just be the norm any friday all long. And in theory, it was like, well, you're supposed to – that's where you kind of got people saying they give up stuff for Lent.
It was sort of you can replace the no meat thing that's universal with a choose-your-own-adventure approach to Lent. But I feel like that's a cop-out.
You actually want things that are expected of everyone because that's what encourages people to actually do them. And it used to be significant enough.
That's where the Filet-O-Fish came from at McDonald's. I don't know if I ever told this on air.
I can't remember, but my grandma was super Catholic. Every Friday, no matter what it was, even beyond Lent, was at no meat on Fridays.
And that was just built in. Let's go.
I was raised in that kind of a culture. I was.
No meat on Fridays. Yeah.
And there's a very rich Christian fasting tradition that like Wednesdays were, I think, again, some Orthodox still do this, but I think historically Wednesdays were sort of a semi-fast day. You would have so many more fasts.

Lent, or not Lent, Advent is also like a fasting period,

as intended to be.

There's a very rich Christian tradition of fasts

and abstentions throughout the year that were very strong.

LDS, you guys do fasting once a month.

Mormons are weak.

We only do once a month.

But is it 24-hour fast?

24 hours.

No, it's big.

It's supposed to be 24 hours. So it's 12 fasts a year.
Is it just food or is it water too? It's supposed to be everything. No drinking, no water.
See, the no water is tough for me. That's the toughest.
For 24 hours that you can make it. No Jell-O? But people would always hawk the water fountain at church because it's always on Sunday.
They're like, oh, bad Mormon, drinking the water fountain. I feel like they could just turn it off or something.
Chewing out. Deactivate the water.
I know. The no water thing, that's tough.
I drink an extraordinary amount of liquid, as you could tell. I mean, I have like three gallons of fluid a day, and no water stuff.
I've been drinking a lot lately. It's good for you.
It gets all the toxins out. It's great.
I'm so much happier. Blake is some sort of camel.
Charlie, are you still doing the low caffeine? Yeah, it's amazing. Low caffeine.
Since I started drinking more water, and obviously with this, but since the election, I lost a lot of weight. It's incredible.
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for Hillsdale.com. All respect aside though, we've been having this discussion offline a lot lately

because we've been seeing, you know, obviously there's more Muslims in the West than there ever

Thank you. Respect aside, though, we've been having this discussion offline a lot lately because we've been seeing, you know, obviously there's more Muslims in the West than there ever were when we were growing up, certainly more than a century ago.
And the trends indicate that will continue. And we now kind of so we have the open debate is is Islam compatible with conservatism and is Islam compatible with Western civilization as we understand it? And we especially are talking about this because a politician in Australia recently described Australia's approach to freedom this way.
Let's play clip 296. There's been some that have been agitating in the parliament to nullify the laws, to remove them off the statute books.
Think about what kind of toxic message that would send to the New South Wales community and I think the advocates for those changes need to explain what do they want people to have the right to say. What kind of racist abuse do they want to see or be able to lawfully see on the streets of Sydney.
I recognise and i've fully said from the beginning that we don't have the same freedom of speech laws that they have in the united states and the reason for that is that we want to hold together our multicultural community and have people live in peace free from the kind of vilification and hatred that we do see around the world well that is i mean so what he's saying is we have to we have to further chisel free speech laws so that Muslims aren't offended.

Multicultural, but they've been having those arrive in Australia

far more than they were in the past.

Yeah, much larger numbers because they have immigration from India,

immigration from Africa.

And it's very funny how he's like,

we do this because we're multicultural,

unlike the United States of America. I i know as if we're not multicultural yeah they also have the huge indonesian influence yeah which are all muslims yes um overwhelmingly so and so we have that we of course have that in britain we have european countries considering uh blasphemy laws and part this is you know is.
They do have a tradition of taking their blasphemy more seriously, which you could say is admirable. But it's also OK, guys, like we have a history of freedom of speech.
We have a history of freedom of religion. And unfortunately for all of you, freedom of religion includes the right to say that the Prophet Muhammad was not an admirable guy.
It's the freedom to say islam is bad and we have societies that are passing laws against this and i think we're going to be having more discussion of this because what you especially see now is there's almost a there's a take in certain factions of conservatism in the u.s that like i'm sure you know jack could describe this too that Islam is based basically I remember a few years ago there was that meme Islam is right about women which was done to short-circuit liberal brains because they can't criticize Islam but you're also basically saying that Islam being anti-women is a good thing so it was it was trolling the left but you'll just also hear people on the right say, unironically,

oh, Islam is more socially

conservative, they have more marriages,

they're better in these

ways. And I think we're going to see people say

we should align with them more

overtly, or you might even see

some people are just going to join

Islam. They'll say, I want to join

a religion that's not cucked. Especially in the black community.

Yeah, I want a religion that's not cucked, a religion that's cucked I don't think a lot of white people are going to join Islam I don't know that ad that ad that Charlie tweeted out was pretty gay it was a pretty gay ad let's play that out alright let's play 293 hey hello boy asala boy. As-salamu alaykum, sister.
What are you doing here? What does it look like I'm doing? I'm studying the art of patience. You can't eat for another four hours.
Oh, Ramadan. The month of patience.
Okay, well, first of all, there's bacon on that burger. Yeah, it looks like a bacon burger.
No, first of all, I looks like bacon maybe it's like beef bacon i don't know no this just came up and was obviously an actor by the way no no i'm upset because for some reason i'm getting served these ads on instagram what's in your i don't know my algorithm on my for you page on instagram about it it's like probably like hyper what have you been looking up hyper masculine content with fast food and women and i don't look at fast food ramadan tyler abu bakar tyler you have to go on a mormon lent for this mormon lent for tyler i want to know i want to know the algo recipe that got tyler caught in a canadian ramadan i No,. I know it's searching.
Wait, so we've got Canadian Ramadan versus Mormon lent here. I was so offended because it was just Canadian.
I didn't care about the rest of it. I'm like, I don't want to serve Canadian ads.
Like this is much deeper than that. It's much deeper.
Was it like a Tim Hortons ad or something? Gosh. So, but too many in here.
Tim Hortons is good. Tim Hortons is good.
Since you did bring up, you don't think we'll see people in the West convert to it. A lot of whites.
For sure, but let's play. This is out of the UK.
Charlie, did you say Allah? Let's play clip 291. I'm PC Paul.
I've been a police officer here for 16 years. And in January, I reverted to Islam.
I started studying the Quran and I started to look into Islam and it's just such a wonderful, wonderful, peaceful religion. In a period of five months I've read the Quran twice.
I've not missed a prayer. Young people, they'll come to me and they'll say, Paul, because I can say to them, are you praying? Because I know I'm praying all the prayers.
And it's nice because they'll come and say, actually, now we're praying. So, 100% of it, it works together.
I can rub off on them and they will inspire me and they'll rub off on me. I can't even understand.
People have asked me, why did you choose Islam? and my answer is i didn't i didn't choose islam allah chose me allah chose me okay so is that like a bbc propaganda film i think it was a islamic community center it's a few years old i just remembered it when we were going to do this topic but this is propaganda and i've actually seen something really frightening recently there was there are a bunch of influence again instagram also Instagram. It's on your algo.
I'll go through it. There's influencers who are saying positive things about the Quran.
Oh, no. That's been happening for a while.
Oh, boy. I know.
But I've seen the uptick recently. White influencers.
So the bigger they can. Islam can spread through importation or conversion.
Those are the two big ways. And the West has primarily been taken over by importation.
Agree right, Blake? Yeah, it's very heavily driven by immigration. Whites are far more likely to fall victim to secularism than Islam.
On balance, yes. Yeah, for sure.
Vast majority balance. I don't care about this weird lunatic lunatic i can't understand but if that starts to change i will happily adjust that statement the the art this what blake said though is very important and jack i want you to respond to this for young islam speaks to young men that are very displeased with a hyper feminized culture and they're very upset with how feminine the American church has become and how female-centric it has become, which is so emotion and compassion and no more about reason and people's sensitivities.
How, Jack, do you respond to somebody in good faith that says, Jack, why shouldn't we either convert or be open to Islam or be friendly with Islam?

There's no abortions in Islamic countries. There's no transgenderism in Islamic countries.
There would be no drag queen story hour in Islamic countries. How would you respond to that, Jack? Well, I mean, there's a few examples that I can point to, but, you know, obviously it's just this, is that Christianity has been central to the history and to the story and the development of Western civilization, really since the days of the Roman Empire, since when Jesus literally came, almost immediately he began having an impact in his area.
Then, of course, it spread throughout. Blake and I did a whole series on this around Christmas time.
So the idea that we can just take a foreign, you know, a foreign religion and import it into the West, it would completely change who we are, completely change our system of law, completely change our institutions, it would completely change everything that makes us, us. And it would do so in the name of, oh, well, they're a little bit more masculine than us and i would actually put that at the fault of the current heads of the church um in the united states certainly the church in the west charlie you and i've talked about this for years at this point um but you know when you when you look at it there's a reason that uh actually my my friend joshua lisek the books together, my co-author, he has a phrase for it.
He says there's this brand of Christianity out there that's like Jesus is my boyfriend. And it's very feminine coded like, oh, I'm in love with Jesus.
He's my boyfriend. And you hear this in like a lot of music.
You hear it in a lot of sermons and homilies as well, where it's just very female

coded, very emotional. It's all touchy feely.
And you never hear anything about condemnation of sin.

You never hear anything about the word hell.

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That is ruffgreens.com. So here's my theory.
My theory is because the father of the Godhead is the least emphasized part of the Godhead of modern Christianity. We have churches that focus on the Holy Spirit all the time.
We have churches that focus on Jesus all the time. You rarely hear about God the father.
And that's because a lot of people have father wounds and it's looked as being too patriarchal. And I think the way that we combat

Islam in the West is we speak about God the Father, who is rules and order and discipline and regimen. All three obviously are God.
The Trinity is an incredibly complex topic that we don't have to get into today, which we all agree in the Trinitarian God. But think about how rarely hear about God the Father.

If you were to talk, open

a random, even in Catholicism, which I have great respect for, I would say that Jesus has definitely talked about even more than God the Father. But the liturgy, fair enough, you know, talks about all three.
But let's just say you open up a random Christian sermon, and it's even a good Bible-based church, chances are they're not going to be talking about God the Father. And when you have a generation and a country that is seeking order, that is seeking rules, then talking about that portion of the Godhead, I think, is incredibly important.
Blake? Yeah, I was thinking, as you said, about God the Father, the God of rules, also the God of judgment, a thing you're not going to see. That you'd see in medieval Christianity all the time is images of the last judgment or images of just judgment in general.
That can even come, I think, through Christ. So have you ever been at the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in D.C.? It's incredible.
And it's got that right behind the altar. I now try to go every time I go in D.C.
Yeah, and see if you guys can bring up the interior of that. It's the closest thing, I think, to a European style.
My brother just got in a little bit of trouble there because he was leading a protest against the newly installed Archbishop on Bannon. I saw it.
I haven't followed that story, but I'm thinking of when you look behind behind the altar if you guys can even zoom into that a little bit uh it's i think i think that's jesus even though it kind of looks god the fathery uh but he kind of he looks very stern and this is yeah this is and that's an element of god that there is that god is merciful and god is forgiving but god is also the ultimate judge i once had a friend of mine in college who said like when I see that like I want to like fall on my face and confess my sins because I I face judgment and that's definitely an aspect we have a very touchy-feely like emotionally resonant Christianity you know like Jesus as your life coach correct that appeals to a lot of people, but I don't know that it gives the level of strict order. I completely agree.
And it's, by the way, it's a feminine is what it is. It's because it's a young woman that doesn't want to be offended.
She's like, oh, you can't tell me anything wrong. You know, so Jesus is my buddy.
Like actually God is there to judge you and God is there to tell you that you did wrong. And they're like, oh, that drives people away from the church.
Well, actually, it didn't for 2,000 years. What you're doing is driving people away from the church.
This whole modern, sloppy, watered-down—it's driving people to Islam is what it's doing. The truth is, I think the great hack of Christianity is it is able to have all of those elements.
So it does have the forgiveness-loving element. That's the beauty of the Trinity..
You know, as, as we sometimes say, it's not that things that are effeminate or, or feminine are bad or the things that are masculine are always good. It is that you need things in the balance and Christianity has historically had that balance and it's like out of alignment now.
And I think we'll see like if, yeah, as long as that void is there, like if the perception is that Islam is the, is the macho religion that is demanding of you, you know, who's to say we couldn't see all those guys who are in trend day Aragua or whatever, who currently they join weird bastardized versions. They are prime for Islam.
Yeah. They're like the cult of, you know, the saint death and all of that my prediction is that islam will find its way through latino and black men in our hemisphere it will not christian young white christian men not i don't think are prime for it but young latino men that go into gangs they are prime for islam the whole cut everyone's you you just want to be strong join islam talk blake about how islam has found itself in this very patriarchal way in the past yeah so obviously a lot of guys end up joining in in prison for example and you could even say like in there it might be an improvement like it's better to follow like the rules of praying five times a day of fasting that over, you know, like total moral anarchy.
But obviously we prefer Christianity overall. And there's a lot about Islam that, you know, well, as we saw in that clip, you know, it's like a very peaceful religion.
Well, no, because in Islam, in christianity islam rigidly defines a lot more of what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to live your life rules for life there's a lot more explicit rules christianity as it's almost like both a strength and a weakness the bible doesn't really get into the details of for example what does a majority christian country look like? Correct. We have vibes.
We have instructions from Paul to individual communities of believers because, you know, our scriptures stopped at the point where we were still an underground church of a few thousand people. And we've reached the point where there are countries that have been Christian for over almost 2,000 years.
And now our problem is like, you know, we have the decaying of that. We don't have a lot to go off of there.
But Islam is different. Islam was a war leader, Muhammad.
He unites these tribes in Arabia. And you, from the beginning, have an Islamic society, an Islamic group that from top to bottom is Muslim.
And very shortly after his death, we start getting pretty strict rules on what Muslims are supposed to do. I think we've talked about before.
Are you familiar with hadiths? Well, the hadiths are like writings of teachings. They're saying, I mean, I think it means sayings.
And it's a set of, they're extremely long. They're about as long as the Talmud, I think, of things that the Prophet Muhammad said or did or how he reacted non-verbally to other people doing things so you'll have a hadith that is like so and so did this and muhammad smiled and laughed when he did this thus showing it was not bad and within this you have certainly a ton of generic stuff you know this is how you this is how you pray properly this is how you cleanse yourself properly some of them are kind of funny uh just because this is humorous the hadiths you have to be ritually cleansed to pray and someone says if i fart is that does that make me unclean and the prophet muhammad said if you don't smell it and you don't hear it it's okay if you if you smell it or hear it then you gotta you purify yourself.
But if it's silent and non-deadly, you're okay. 100% real.
But there's also serious ones. There's no way that's real.
That is 100% real. I have it bookmarked on my computer.
I'll look it up if you want me to. Of course, I keep bookmarks of funny hadiths in my computer.
Of Islamic flatulence laws. You have more.
You have a full page of this. Literally, look at me.
I'm going to show it to you just to prove that I'm not making it up. Funny history.
I have funny hadiths and I've got... Maybe you need more subscriptions and less of this.
Do you see it there? Do you see it? Read it, Blake. Okay, you're calling my bluff.
Alright, so this is from the Ablutions, Wudu section of the sunnah al-bukhari my uncle narrated abad bin tamim my uncle asked allah's messenger peace be upon him about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer allah's apostle replied he should not leave his prayers unless he hears sound or smells something so it this is all that hummus that they were starting to eat. That hummus really starts to get the GI tract on.
Exactly. I can't believe you don't have Netflix and you have this.
This is a weird, this is a weird personal subscription. But more seriously, the hadiths also have guidelines, for example, on how you wage war as a muslim so we have hadiths that say the most honorable thing you can do as a muslim is to engage in jihad for allah and even though i remember after 9-11 they would say well jihad you can have a jihad in your heart against like the sins within you but if if you read them and there's hundreds of these, it is very clear they mean actually going to war for Islam.

There's there's examples where like a woman says, like, I would love to be a warrior to go on jihad.

And he says, like, because your faith was so great, you will get to do this.

And it actually describes she she sails to a foreign land and she just drops dead when she gets there.

And that's a great thing, because if you die while on jihad, that's like a auto paradise thing in the Hadith. So it's not that she had to fight.
It's not that she had to die fighting, but that she just died while on the jihad journey. And they even get into they have guidelines for how you distribute war captives, which includes like slaves, sex slaves.
Like this is all described in the hadiths in a very literal way and so like i like to point out to people is you'll sometimes hear islam needs a reformation to make it more compatible with the west but as you would know like the protestant reformation the belief is they're taking christianity back to its roots before stuff was layered over it from paganism and so on and if you do that with Islam you're going back to what the hadiths say you're going back to what is written down in our early scriptures and they have all of this in it and so to reform Islam in any other way like you actually you actually have to say we need to sort of, you know, gay liberal thing that Christianity has done, where they just decide to ignore all of their scriptures. Privacy to loan debt in the United States totals about $300 billion.
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So I agree. I think that there is some truth in that.
So Jack, what then do we, so let me ask you a question, Jack. If, let me be as provocative as I can here.
Would you, if you found out that there was a Republican running as a Muslim, how would that, how would you process that? Well, if it was a Republican running as a Muslim, I suppose, the way. Sorry, other way around.
Yeah. They're not running, a Muslim running as a Republican.
Yeah, as a practicing Muslim. So the way that, you know, it's similar to, you know, I guess the way you'd say, like JFK ran as a Catholic, right? He ran as a president as a Catholic, that not not in terms of the religion, in terms of the grammar, that that the way that you would look at it is to say, look, okay, these are the

things we believe. These are the things that we want.
These are the things that we're pushing for.

And you've got to leave it up to that. You certainly have to leave it up to that district.

Here's the way I look at it, right? Because this really centers around the idea of integration

and assimilation when it comes to migrants, because Islam is not a Western religion. Islam did not originate here.
Naturally, there's no history in Western civilization of it other than the invasions, the Turks, the Ottomans coming through the Balkan history with this, Spain, et cetera, et cetera. That's the history.
Barbary pirates. You need to talk about the Houthis right now in relation to the Barbary pirates.
That's been the history of the connection. So my question would be is, can this be done compatibly with what that clip the Australian premier was talking about earlier there? This is our system.
This is our culture. You are coming here.
You're bringing your own values and your own culture with you. So are you doing so in a way that actually complies with the standards and mores of our majority culture? Or are you going to turn around, like you see what happened on campus all the time, are you going to turn around and say that our majority culture has to bend and has to accommodate and is mandated to have to twist ourselves in pretzels and turn ourselves inside out to accommodate your minority imported culture? So, I mean, I asked for a reason because I endorsed a friend of mine who's actually my family physician, Dr.
Zutty Jasser, who's Muslim. However, he actually speaks out more against Islam than almost any Christian will.
I mean, he will use the Hadith against Islam and he's like, we have to, his argument, and we're going to have him on the show soon, is we need to actively ignore like some of the more insane Mohammedan teachings and we need a reformation.

And so, however, he's an extraordinary minority, like he had a self-admission minority. So I think you're right, Jack.
I think it depends. And I got some hate.
Oh, Charlie, how dare you, as Tyler knows, endorse Zutty. I was like, well, you know, I'm not going to apologize.
It wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad.
But, but I guess let's just talk more broadly. either anyone can take this that should we think let's say if there is someone that's not like Zutty, let's say it's someone who is very religious, someone who's in a mom.
I can't think of it. Someone comes in and they say, hey're we're doing this mass movement and we want to, you know, continue forward against all this stuff.
And we might agree with them on issues. At what point do we draw the line of collaboration with? Well, it's Islamic fundamentalists.
It's kind of happening a little bit in Michigan right now. Right.
it is because you had so many that felt so detached because the the left went so far into

all these issues that they felt completely um sidelined in michigan and that's why many voted you know a majority is what we're is what we're reading in exit polling supporting president trump so it's it's a great question to ask because i don't know the answer because in Minnesota and Michigan, this is a real community based issue of saying, hey, how do you engage, you know, the the orthodox Muslim community in some kind of way? So, Blake, I want your thoughts. I mean, I'm torn.
I mean, during the election, I remember there were hundreds of young Muslim men that would come up asking for selfies, loving everything. They hated my Israel stance, but they loved the whole vibe of what we were doing.
It's hard to kind of see them individually being, you know, the problem. I look at things more broadly.
I think that when you import a macro ideology, you get a macro erosion of the culture. is that is irrefutable yeah i think you know maybe a helpful way to think of it is when we think of how we're often in agreement with conservatives in other pretty different countries uh like i mean i'm almost thinking like conservatives in like japan conservatives in India, conservatives in Russia, like, you know, people who share our values in entirely different places that we can be aligned with them.
But that wouldn't necessarily like, oh, we should merge our countries together or something. And so with, you know, devout Muslims in the U.S., I think what we can say is if we agree on particular issues, we should collaborate.
But big picture, we don't want America to become a Muslim country, whereas they would probably regard that as a great thing. Let me ask you, let me interrupt you.
Is it a stated goal of Islam to take over other countries? It's certainly a stated goal to spread Islam. And they have a much, they have a richer tradition of both, I mean, just outright conquest in the name of religion.
And also, you can get documents like the Muslim Brotherhood has put out texts that basically say, you know, our demographic tidal wave is a way for us to expand our influence in the West. And a notable thing that's worth knowing

is there are prophecies in Islam

that are expressly related to them

one day conquering the West.

So this isn't just a general,

let's spread our religion because we love it.

It's that the prophet Muhammad

had sort of prophecies that are recorded

that one day Islam will conquer Rome.

It will conquer the Roman Empire. And so for them, like if you're a devout Muslim, there's a real sense of, you know, one day we will, you know, have the crescent over the city of Rome because we'll defeat the Christians.
And again, that's just, it's a difficult thing for us to engage with because we don't favor that outcome.

But there are a lot of these guys.

Let's put up that chart with the numbers of what percentage of different European countries are going to be Muslim by 2050.

Yeah, please do.

If migration rates go.

Yeah, like if we look at that, I think it's like Sweden's at 30% there.

There are 30% now?

No, this is 2050 in like a high migration scenario when ramadan is during the winter there you go exactly and then you can see it's like 15 percent in italy if italy is 15 percent muslim that will mean the city of rome itself will probably be 40 muslim or something like that because they're going to cluster in the big cities and we were just talking about Toronto the other day Toronto is like a quarter Chinese and like 20 is like 15 to 20 percent Muslim yeah and I wouldn't be surprised if there are 10 times as many practicing Muslims as there are practicing Christians in the city of London oh without a doubt yeah well and so the the obvious way of looking at this is that a Christian nation becomes a secular nation. Then that must import new people to sustain their materialism.
So then they import Islam and then it becomes an Islamic nation. It goes in sequences.
Yeah. And it's interesting because we haven't we haven't yet seen a country that goes over that tipping point of it was a Christian country and becomes Muslim Muslim.
It's so speculative. The UK is getting there.
And France is close too. France is scarily close, but it still isn't fully there.
The closest would be probably Lebanon where it seems to have been. Of course, that's like a Muslim country.
Lebanon was, when it was created, Lebanon was majority Christian. It was bad.
That's not. My wife is like one fourth Lebanese.
Yeah, exactly. And they ended that's not so much immigration that's a lot of the christians left because they tended to be wealthier so they emigrated and then the paris of the middle east yes gorgeous city and now it's the paris of the middle east because it's a giant slum it's awful yeah so that go that begs a broader question now let's i i wanted the whole episode on this because I – there's – the other stuff is there's nothing else going on.
Why is it that Islamic countries are so crummy? Now they might say, but Dubai, but Qatar. So you got to reconcile that.
Okay. So is there one that's nice that didn't happen to be built on a giant pile of money that they had to pay other people to dig up for them? Yeah, and realistically— Okay, again, I'm not a defender of Islam, but I want us to go through this because this is an important thought exercise.
So Turkey is not great, but it's not third world. It's probably second world, right? Yeah.
Lebanon used to be, but theyian okay but the the majority of islamic countries are rather poor very very tribal right and libya algeria egypt iraq and i want to flag something which is i think it would have a better explanation if they were basically always that way but a lot of places that are not great in our muslim countries now were once like the apex of civilization like the persian empire ran the middle east was an innovative country like there's stuff that like they were hugely culturally influential like if you were to say what are the three great civilizations in maybe zero ad you'd probably say like the romans the Persians and the Chinese in terms of their ability to influence the world like there's Persian stuff everywhere Persia gave us chess Persia gave us like a lot of mathematics there's they had actually like a lot of a decent number of inventions came out of Iran you've been to Iran I've been in the border which one the Armenian oh you've been I don't know you've been to Armenia. Been to Yerevan.
It's beautiful. I went to the Ararat region.
Oldest Christian country. I had to see Mount Ararat.
The oldest Christian church in the world is at the base of Mount Ararat. And that was like 200 AD, right? Yeah.
Is the ark in Armenia? No, it's in Turkey. But the Ararat region is right on the border of Turkey.
And I took a taxi. It was like the most dangerous thing I've ever done.
It was like the dumbest thing. I got into Yurvan and took a taxi out to Mount Ararat.
And that's a similar thing worth flagging. So like Turkey is the Turks.
But if you take a DNA test, they're basically Greeks. They're descended from the people who've been there a long time.
So I say greek and they were really probably the people who were just always in that area greek muslim became yeah so they were you know when it was a greek empire when it was the the roman empire the byzantine empire as they call it that was a place produced a ton of scholarship produced a ton of innovation it was probably actually the most technically the most literate an advanced part of Europe, and Turkey is not.

And this is actually a thing that they've asked themselves. And like we invented the printing press in, I want to say like 1500.
It took, I think, almost 200 years for the printing press to really take off in the Islamic world uh and it's a question that certainly has driven them berserk like salafism so hey everybody charlie kirk here brand new year brand new opportunities to change the world for the better it's easier than you might think you can save babies by providing ultrasounds with pre-born together with the sanctity of human life month, we're going to save 35,000 babies to show the world that not only do we believe life is precious, but we're going to do something about it. Your gift of pre-born will give a girl the truth of what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice.
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charliekirk.com pre-born banner. So I have a question on a question.
Jack might have some thoughts on this too. If it wasn't for the Cold War, would the Muslim diaspora be as great as it is, especially across Western Europe?

because that that so right so you're talking about this idea that you know that i mean there was a lot of uh carving up of you know not by the way not just the middle east but also africa

during the cold war this huge of, you know, not by the way, not just the Middle East, but also Africa during the Cold War, this huge fight for, you know, which side is going to come in. So you had the communist running, running amok all over the globe, trying to use the loot, the treasury of the Soviet Union, well, loot the treasury of the Russian Empire to go and expand the revolution.
And so prop up all these communist groups. How does the West respond? The West responds by trying to prop up their own groups.
And what does this do? This creates this, this diaspora. So of course, you see, you know, elements of this, like the revolution in Tehran in 1979, see so many Persians, you know, flee because of that, the overthrow of the Shah, you know, what, 20 some years prior, etc, etc.
All you could go down the list of all the things that have happened between between Israel and Egypt and the various wars from 1948 on, that all involved the Arab world and all involved this massive, massive instability. You know, I look at it this way, I think that a lot of the influx of migrants in general has more to do with the legacy of World War II than anything else, because it just created this idea.
So I went to Sweden and Malmo, which is one of these areas with no-go zones, I guess in like 2017 and went right into the no-go zones. There were shootings going on.

There were shootings going on. There were actually gang wars going on between the migrant gangs that were coming in in the current era, so in like 2015 on, versus the migrants that had been there since the 70s.
And so you had like Somali gangs fighting Arab gangs, basically. And the local actual native Swedes were just pretty much caught in the crossfire.
This also led to massive expanse in rape numbers, which is something that of course, we've seen across Sweden, Germany, Ireland, now Conor McGregor talking about it, I guess he's running for president, he even says, talking about this issue and what they're turning Ireland into. So I think that it's an aspect of decolonization as much as anything else.
I think it's an aspect of the legacy of World War II. You know, you could say if the Cold War hadn't happened, I think that a lot of things would have changed if communism wouldn't have happened.
Put it that way. It's very, very hard to say that, you know, what could have been otherwise, though.
So what Blake is getting at, though, is what about Islam makes these once great peoples, they obviously genetically have the brainpower to succeed, and Persians are not dumb, right, genetically. What is it about Islam in practice that turns once great places into hell into hell holes so and this is the thing that you can debate because there was like an islamic golden age as they'll say where like it seemed islam they mentioned that all the time yeah they mentioned it all the time but what's funny is when they were in their golden age it was some arab muslim rulers on top of societies that were not really muslim yet so egypt was i think over 50 christ Christian.
Probably they're not sure until when, but maybe until like the twelve hundreds or so. Same with large groups.
I mean, the Middle East in general was maybe twenty five, thirty percent Christian until World War One. And one factor that seems actually really interesting is in like the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages, Christianity.
We don't know exactly why this was, but they got really gung-ho that there's one sin God hates more than any other. And it's consanguineous marriage.
You can't marry your cousins anymore. And so, and we have evidence of this, like a ruler, you know, a pagan king would convert to Christianity and he'd write a letter to the bishop or to the Pope and say, okay, I'm a Christian now.
What am I supposed to do? And we have some of the responses that they wrote back. And it was always kind of three things.
And they would say, observe the Sabbath. You'd like that.
I love that. They're observe the Lenten fast.
Observe the fast. Love that.
And don't marry your cousin. You can't break any of the marriage rules.
And so the marriage rules were obviously definitely no like marrying your nieces, your brother, sister. Don't marry your godchildren.
That's equal level of insist. And then the big one is don't marry your first cousins.
And sometimes they'd get stricter, your second cousin, your third cousin. And they're just, they're insanely gung ho about this.
They never stop talking about it. They enforce it really hard.
And a big theory is that this actually caused sort of the it broke the sort of clannish systems of kinship that exist in most pre-modern societies. You have a clan, you marry other people in your clan.
And this one, it just lowers your IQ because you kind of, you have a buildup of genetic dead weight. and it also makes it so you look to other people within your clan you don't sort of have a group

based more general altruism for lack of a better term and some people hypothesize that this basically helped launch western civilization on its big upward trajectory and if you look at the worst parts of the muslim world which are some of the ones that we for whatever reason are the most gung-ho to bring in like uh pakistanis who moved to britain other pakistanis will tell you they're coming from the worst part of pakistan and pakistan is not a great country pakistan is not a great country and they're coming from i can't remember the name of it but it's like one of the worst parts where they have not courage an over 90 percent rate of them for example marrying first cousins and nice if you're from a that where 90 percent of people marry their first cousins actually lowers the genetic it lowers your genetic pool it lowers your iq and it it just it makes you backwards it's weird to say but not marrying your cousins is like a technological breakthrough on par with like the printing press or the steam engine it's it's the it's the technological breakthrough of marry random people you're not related to and isn't that also one of the reasons why our settlers to america were so strict about keeping family records that's a big driver there was like this whole like that the family records must be really kept so that when you meet a mate we can both look and make sure yeah yeah because you that was like a thing you can break the marriage rules, man. What's funny is this gets obscured because who we remember best are nobles.
And nobles would get exemptions from this because noble marriages were so important. So you look at the king of England and, yeah, he marries his cousin for some complicated reason.
But you needed the pope to sign off on that. And the pope was not signing off on that for, you know, a random dirt farmer in the middle of France.
And there are what? 40 Muslim majority countries, 45, 45, 50 or so. So the richest are obviously Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE and Bahrain, Bahrain, Brunei.
And then Iran. But Iran is actually a story of a once wealthy great power that's been made super compromised because of Islam.

Yeah. And I mean, it was a much nicer country under the Shah, who was nominally Muslim, but like very westernizing.
And you have a common trend of this where you'll have some of the most successful leaders in Muslim countries. They'll say they're Muslim.
They'll observe some external forms, but they're clearly they desire to modernize in a western direction and that's what the Shah would do and it's not super easy to say how badly like what's Iran's natural potential because to some extent we obviously sanction them a lot but yeah they clearly were at the absolute apex and they fall into being at best like a middle income country uh under you know many centuries of this faith they adopted so i guess the last question is an important one is islam capable of a reformation what i would say is i think they already had it so the west so for them for example like the age of colonialism you know they were dominant for a long time the ottoman empire was a muslim empire and they conquer half of europe they look like they may conquer rome and suddenly it's 1850 and they're getting their butts kicked the europeans have all this technology they don't understand and they're whooping on them and they're getting colonized and so what you get is salafism so salafism that is the ideology of wahhab. That's the ideology of Al-Qaeda.
It's the ideology of ISIS. Saudi funded.
It's very much make Islam great again, where they say we built up all of this medieval stuff on top of Islam. We got away from the words of the prophet.
We need to go back to the basics and practice true Islam. I would say that spiritually is what a reformation would be.
Jack, final thoughts. Islam, the West, is it compatible? Honestly, I don't think it's compatible.
I think the West has Christianity at its core. The West has always been majority Christian since we've had the rise of Christianity.
And since the advent of Western civilization, as we know it today, they are indelibly linked. And America has always been a Christian-majority nation and continues to be a Christian-majority nation.
And America is at its best when our moral core is Christian. Tyler? I'm still thinking about that white kid in Canada who's eating bacon.
And why you're getting ad served to you And why I'm getting that ad served to you Is that the Islamic Reformation that they'll start eating bacon It did really incidentally start this whole thing And if you're getting these ads too You should immediately delete Instagram I think that's what you should do Just knock it off Take a full Take a full Ramadan to think about it We We want to hear from you. What do you guys think?

Freedom at charliekirk.com. Till next week, keep on committing thought crimes.
The West and Islam,

are they compatible? Thanks, guys. Talk to you soon.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.