Sunday Special: Bringing Broadway Home

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When I was a kid growing up, I went to public school in the Bronx and it was in the sixth or seventh grade.

I had a math teacher.

I'm sure he was a fine-to-good math teacher.

The reason, however, that I remember him most is because I recall him, vividly recall him, taking an inordinate amount of time the year that I had him to have us read and listen to the lyrics and music for the musical Les Miz, Les Miserabla.

So instead of teaching math, he would play what I assume was the cast recording in class, and he would explain to us what was going on in the story.

And then eventually we went to see a live Broadway performance of Ley Miz.

You're a lucky boy.

Yeah, I think for some people, that would be the ideal math class.

I cannot say it wasn't.

I cannot say it was.

All I remember is: why are we not learning math here?

I feel like math will be more useful to me.

This is what I was thinking at this age, than theater.

And, buddies, I was wrong because theater has proven much more useful to me in life than math.

At least today.

At least today.

This is the Sunday special.

I'm Gilbert Cruz.

Joining me today is Jesse Green, a culture correspondent here at The Times and a longtime theater critic for The Paper.

Welcome, Jesse.

Thank you, Gilbert.

And Elizabeth Vincentelli is the former chief theater critic for the New York Post and a regular arts and culture contributor to The Times.

Hello, Elizabeth.

Hello.

And I just want to start by saying, particularly, given what the two of you do, that of course, seeing theater live is the best possible way to experience it.

But I think we all know that it's not always possible.

It's not always accessible.

It can be rather expensive sometimes.

So today we're going to talk about all the ways to experience theater if you cannot actually get there.

Jesse, what was your first encounter with theater before you ever saw a live performance?

Well, aside from my my parents fighting in the house, I mean, it was like Virginia Wolfe, right?

That's very dramatic, yes.

Yeah, no, cast albums, I think, like most people of my generation.

And my parents had, among the jazz and classical and opera, they had a lot of the classic musical theater, Guys and Dolls, Carousel, Oklahoma, things like that.

And they were in regular rotation in our house.

And regular rotation, what did that mean?

I mean,

you didn't exactly have a playlist.

You just picked up the the LP.

Yes, they were LPs, and you put them on the turntable.

People are really into vinyl again, Jesse.

They know exactly what you're talking about.

Okay, well, so my parents would go to Broadway and go see shows, and they developed an interest in Sondheim, and we didn't know who that was.

And they would bring back cassette tape recordings.

And I, we had a cassette tape recording of A Little Night Music, and I was obsessed with it.

This is 1973 or something like that.

And I couldn't really understand all the lyrics.

It's, you know, it's very contrapuntal.

There's voices here and there.

And I was so

obsessed with it.

And because it was a tape, there was no lyric booklet.

And I actually transcribed the entire musical by hand.

Get out of here.

I did.

And in order to get some of the lyrics, you know, you had to switch, you know, I had to move to the right speaker, move to the left speaker.

And of course, I got a few mandigreens out of that, like crazy wrong lyrics, but that I was convinced were the right lyrics.

But when you want to be part of the musical theater and you can't be there yourself, You will find these weird ways to incorporate it almost physically, in my case, into my body by writing it and then you know, singing it, unfortunately, whenever I played it again.

And what about you, Elizabeth?

Well, I had a completely different experience because I grew up in a very tiny, I can't even describe it as a village because it was the middle of nowhere in France.

So we had no cast album, no theater.

But what we did have is we had a lot of theater on TV, TV, actually, because French TV has done live broadcast or

what would now be called live captures.

They were on all the time.

And so I used to watch them a lot.

And

one in particular,

I think, was very informative on my taste because every Friday there was a show called Aute à Tre Su Soire, which means at the theater tonight.

And the only

that was not the classics, it was all boulevard stuff

with actors who were kind of comic tornadoes.

When you say boulevard, I know the word, but you're referring to timely comedies of yes, exactly.

It's comedies very often involving cheating husbands and 13 rudes of Lamar, things like that.

You know, and

mistaken identities,

all that.

So

a lot of slapsticky stuff.

So I would watch that religiously with my grandmother, which tells you how edgy that was.

And

yeah, I was completely obsessed with them.

And they would have some new boulevard, and then they had like classics, like they had Fidoux and Labiche.

So that's really what I grew up with.

And I forgot.

That brings up that back in the day, there would be variety shows on television.

And often they would include incredibly long stretches.

They were taped in New York.

They would get the cast of some current show.

They'd come on and do an eight-minute segment, an 11-minute segment.

And you would get particularly sort of brassy dames kind of musicals.

But it was a great way to see that stuff, and it was a way for people to learn what musical theater was about.

And also the borders between pop and Broadway were very porous.

Like you had the Supremes doing a Broadway medley that went on for like 29 minutes, or it felt like it.

Yeah.

And the Beatles

love a music man.

Yeah.

Oh, we're going for the same reference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So, but yeah.

And then I got into MGM musicals when I was a teen.

And I would say a big breakthrough was one of my aunts had a cast album of hair.

I later realized it was the British cast.

Uh-oh.

Didn't know that at the time.

Like the inferior caste.

Always.

That is true.

Actually, that is true.

It is true.

No, it's.

Absolutely.

We can go back.

Rule number one, get the original

Broadway cast.

I did not realize that.

Apologies to our British.

Our British listeners.

No, no, no, no apology to them.

Get better performers.

It's true.

No, I I mean, I'm not going to argue on that.

That's absolutely true.

So you listened to hair.

Like, I ran that LP into the ground.

Me too.

Well, of course, in the years since then, besides cast recordings, which we're going to get into in a little bit, the only way to actually experience theater live was to go and see it live.

For decades it was, yes.

There were some live broadcasts, but...

For the most part, it disappeared because there was this assumption in the industry that having a a live capture would cannibalize a live show.

So nobody would go see something live if they could just rent the VHS or the DVD or stream it.

And that, I think, has been proven wrong.

What would you say was the big story that changed that?

Was it Hamilton or was it before Hamilton?

I would say it's Hamilton.

I am curious, since you were avid theater enthusiasts during this time, was it just, it was like, if you don't see it live and you don't have a cast recording, that's it.

Like, there's there's no other way to experience for the most part, yeah.

Yeah, it sort of feels like how it used to be with movies decades ago.

Like, if you didn't catch a movie in a theater before, VHS, beta, DVD, et cetera, you could go a decade without seeing it unless you caught it on, you know, late night TV, Channel 11, or what have you.

Well, I think it's important to say that, like, recording a cast album is very expensive because you also have to

buy in everybody.

I mean, I think usually the price that's given now to record a cast album is between $200,000 and $700,000, which is quite a bit of cash.

But for a lot of producers, even if the show wasn't doing well, having a cast album meant that you were able to license the show and that would bring money down the line, the show would stay alive.

So it was worth...

spending that money and then hope for the best that

it would keep interest going and very often it did happen actually

But

capturing a show live, I mean, the expenses multiply

even more if you want something decent.

And there was also this mentality.

So there were all these obstacles.

So all we had were cast albums for the most part.

Another thing, I mean, this is kind of dated, but when you interview actors, Broadway performers,

I think

100% of them refer to seeing the Tony Award show

as the way they knew that they had to be a very good player.

Please talk a little bit about this.

Well, you know, I don't know whether that's a good thing, generally.

But it is a true thing.

But it is a true thing.

I mean, there are, obviously, economically, there's too many actors and not enough shows.

But nevertheless, it is an amazing way to see what's going on and to feel, in a way, part of it, just like any awards show can be.

Mama, who bore me,

Mama, who gave me

Mama the angels,

who made me so sad.

You're seeing actual live staged numbers, not just clips.

And often they are staged by the director of the show, himself or herself, so they have incredible authenticity to the staged experience.

I have been very moved,

even having seen the shows, some of the shows two or three times, to see them again in that format and also to think about what it would mean to be a young person experiencing some pretty quality stuff in that way.

If you talk to musical theater performers now, I would say half of them will mention that performance at the Tony's.

I guarantee you, it comes up so often in interviews.

Oh yeah,

I saw that and then I knew, you know, I was nine and I knew that was going to be my life.

I mean, it's wild.

I would say if there's one that influenced the destinies of so many actors.

And it and all of them are available quite easily on YouTube and places like that.

So it would be irresponsible not to talk about how the pandemic changed the industry's appetite for releasing some of the stuff via streaming or other media and the audience's expectations that these things would be made available.

Could you sort of take us back to that terrible, terrible time and talk about, you know, what changed and what good came out of it for people who love theater?

Well, two things were going on at once.

One is that people,

you could see the work of people anywhere in the world suddenly, which even if you lived in New York, you couldn't really do that.

And anyone in the world who wanted to create something theatrical could do so in this limited format and have it seen.

So, it was really, for me, it was kind of a vibrant time, not always an excellent time, but a vibrant time.

And I learned a lot about what was going on in the world,

particularly in musicals.

And then, like, you could see things that now or then you would never see live because they couldn't happen.

I'd like to propose a toast.

Here's to the ladies who lunch.

Everybody laugh.

Meryl Streep, Audrey MacDonald, and Christine Baranski singing The Ladies Who Lunch.

I was just thinking about this.

Another reason not to move.

I love

Augustina.

You're never going to have that on a stage.

You You couldn't afford those women.

And if you could, it would be for three days.

This was the 90th

celebration of Steven Sondheim's 90th birthday that was live streamed in April of 2020 or thereabouts.

Right.

And I believe it's still available today.

It totally is.

I was watching it before this conversation of ours.

Anyway, that was how the change began.

It's because people were terrified we would have no live theater and they quickly developed ways of creating a substitute.

Yeah, I think we also saw the emergence of people who were trying to create specifically for live streaming, trying to do live theater and streaming it.

And I think we saw the emergence of people like

Josh Gilb, who created Theater in Quarantine.

He was putting on plays in a closet in his East Village apartment, a really small closet too, not a...

not a walk-in closet, a real East Village closet.

Two foot by four foot by eight foot tall.

Incredibly resourceful, and he would act live.

And he continues to do that, and his projects have become more and more ambitious.

And that, to me, was the birth of a really, a real talent, someone who really

changed things in theater.

So I think for people who were

open

to that and thinking, okay, well, theater will come back, but maybe theater can be something else.

Yeah, unfortunately, there's something else a little too often in that period was magicians.

I just...

So you don't like magicians?

Well, they're not high on my list, but they are above mimes.

Okay.

Sorry, French.

But it was something you could...

you know, with a certain amount of cleverness, you could do virtually.

And some of them were quite good, I have to say.

But then it became a thing because theaters were desperate to have some kind of show they could do that was not very expensive to produce.

And other than like a sawd and half-lady, you know, what does it cost to do a magic show?

So there were, I saw a ton of them in that year and a half or whatever.

But there were also amazing experiments that were as good as any live stage production I've seen that would come out of the desperation of theaters to have content.

They would not be able to do it live before an audience, but they would often do it as if live.

So it wasn't, it was not a movie.

It was not a television show.

It was theater.

It was just theater where the audience wasn't actually in the room.

And also, a lot of the actors basically gave their time to do it because they were also desperate to work.

What are they doing?

They're doing their, you know, their ballet bar in their apartment.

That's all they can do.

It is interesting because I remember seeing during the pandemic, the National Theater put on production of Romeo and Juliet, I believe, Starbucks.

Oh, I saw Jesse Buckley and Josh O'Connor.

Yes.

Those reminded me later of something that we haven't really touched on, but but we've had PBS's great performances, right?

There's always been that little,

through public media or what have you, that little peek into some of these stage performances.

Britain has, its national theater has become sort of a robust sort of streaming home for some of these productions.

You know, I'm wondering now, outside of national tours, you take a big trip to Broadway and spend a lot of money.

You go to your local regional theater.

What do you think are some of the most exciting ways that people can experience theater at home?

I think the audio domain.

I mean, audio books have long been very popular.

And when you see a company that like Audible really invest in theater, because it's not just that they do audio productions, they put on the productions live on stage, and then you can access them.

you know, in an audio format.

And there's one that just came out with Hugh Jackman.

We saw it in the spring.

The sexual misconduct of of the middle classes.

Correct.

With LABD and Hugh Jackman.

And now I actually, I was just listening to it yesterday, and it really works in an audio format.

Audible had, I think, its first Tony-nominated show, Dead Outlaw, just this past season.

That is a big move for this company.

And

I really like that they're

not just taking from theater, they're also giving to theater by producing all those shows.

I do want to, recently I've become aware.

I'm not a TikTok follower generally, but there's a huge musical theater

world on TikTok.

Not just the things you might expect, but something I love is

people are recreating for themselves in their own bedrooms or, you know, in the alley behind their apartment or some moment that is available from a live clip of a Broadway show.

And so you'll find there's one in which Jonathan Groff, who's in this Broadway show just in time, is trying to learn a dance.

He's not a dancer exactly,

but he's a hard worker and he gets it.

And that little clip is then interpreted by hundreds of people trying to do the same dance.

And it reminds me of my writing down the lyrics to a little night music,

the need and the power of putting that art form into your own body in your own home.

And there's a bunch of them.

There's some from the Great Gatsby.

There's some

from Chicago, famous, there's a great one from Chicago.

So TikTok is another one.

Well, I think

the fan art has also really exploded.

Because if you're watching this stuff on YouTube or on TikTok, I mean, usually

it's a two-way street.

And I would say the show that was really a turning point for that was Be More Chill.

Because Be More Chill had a very short run in a New Jersey theater in 2015, I believe.

But they did manage to make a cast album.

And that cast album started picking up streams.

And that led to an off-Broadway run in 2017.

And then that led to a Broadway run that was entirely fan-fueled.

And people would travel from all over the country and actually the world to see that show.

That's something that happened with the musical Six, the musical about the six wives of Henry VIII trying to, in a competition to see who had the worst luck at his hands.

Which began basically as a

mixtape almost.

And by the time I saw it, pre-Broadway in Chicago, the audience was full of people already singing the songs.

Interestingly, that used to be the case before the Beatles, let's say.

When pop music was theater music and theater music was pop music, people would already know the songs when they came to see the show because they'd been recorded by 10, 12, 15 people and were on the radio all the time.

That completely disappeared, and now it's coming back in a different form.

Okay, let's take a short break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about cast albums.

I know you both have some some recommendations.

We'll be right back.

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So, I think that three of us would agree that the cast album is a gateway drug for most people, right?

Particularly people who become sort of like true Broadway fans.

And not to keep going back to the pandemic, but during the first month or two of that time when all of life theater was shut down, you, Jesse, and our former critic Ben Brantley did a great and a very useful starter guide to cast albums.

Okay, we were desperate.

We were all desperate.

I remember saying to the theater editor, that's a great idea, do it.

Let's do it right now.

We need stuff.

And I thought that it was very helpful to me, who still will never know as many cast albums as the two of you.

You had a lot of recommendations for

readers then.

I'd love to dig more just into that concept.

Like, what do you think are some good ones to start with?

And what are some of your favorites?

Well, if you're actually starting from zero,

I think any way in that interests you is the way to go.

But let's say you know something about it and you're looking for what are the greats, whether contemporary or classic, we could call them.

I think you can't go wrong,

and a lot of people have not gone wrong with Chicago.

Come on, Guy, I'm going to rename the town.

And all that jazz, I'm going to rule the business.

I'm now talking about the original Broadway cast recording, please.

This is.

Are you disagreeing?

No, no, no.

Chicago is about two women in 1920 Chicago who aimed to become stars by becoming murderers.

So I took the shotgun off the wall and I fired two warning shots

into his head.

He had a common.

He had a common.

He only had himself to blame.

And it's, you know, about the American justice system.

It's so funny.

It's so funny, but it is brilliantly snarky and satirical.

And every single song.

See, one of the things I love in a cast album is when there are no duds.

I don't think Chicago has a single dud.

No, it's a perfect show.

Yeah.

And

it's a perfect show.

I mean, they canned a lot of the songs that they wrote, and they whittled it down to the ones that were, and it just jumps off.

And that's why it's a perfect show.

Yes, exactly.

Well, they did the work.

So, Chicago's a great start.

To me, the most romantic musical of all time and on record is a very little-known one these days called The Most Happy Fella.

Well,

I want to be wanted,

need

to be needed.

And I'll admit.

This is by Frank Lesser, who also wrote Guys and Dolls, but had amazing inner ear.

It's in the style of an opera almost, but it's definitely musical theater, just long musical theater.

And it's about a male otter bride.

It's about an old guy who has

a grape farm in California, who's too shy, and he

invites this waitress he meets in San Francisco to come visit him and switches the picture so that she thinks he's going to be this hunky young worker.

Is that a catfishing musical?

Is that what that means?

Well, yes, oddly enough, I hadn't thought of it that way, but well before it's time.

Hairspray.

Good morning, all to boy.

There's the flasher who lives next door.

Can't go wrong with hairspray.

Again, is there a dud on hairspray?

No, there's no dud in hairspray.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with everything you're saying.

This is not good podcasting.

You guys need to go to the bottom.

So maybe you you need to do one because I'll disagree with that.

Elizabeth.

No, no, no.

Go ahead.

Elizabeth, what are some of your all-time

recordings?

Classics, I am a huge fan of the Leonard Bernstein and Comden and Green collaborations.

I would say on the town and,

okay, this is very divisive, but I like the cast album and the movie soundtrack.

They changed a lot of

the score for

the movie.

And of course, the purity are like, ah, no.

I like them both.

I do too.

I'll go with you there.

And then I would say, Gypsy.

You'll be

swell.

You'll be great.

Gonna have the whole world on a a plate.

Starting here.

Again, perfect.

No notes.

I have one note about Chichi, but we'll leave it alone.

But maybe a little note.

I love company.

Bobby.

Bobby, baby.

Bobby, Bubby.

Bobby, Robbie, darling.

Bobby, we've been trying to call you.

Bobby, Bubby.

Company is a Stevenson musical about Bobby, who's a bachelor whose married friends are always pressuring him to basically find someone and pair up.

And he's very torn about it.

And that's it, really.

It's a series of little vignettes about

him and his friends.

Which recording?

Now that there have been so many people in the world.

I have, you know, I don't actually, I'll take whichever comes in.

The original cast.

Original cast, yes.

And also, of course, because of the Penn and Baker documentary about the recording of the episode.

So can we take a detour?

I'm sorry to take a detour here, but it feels like this is one of the most famous, the most famous theater documentary

of all time.

And the best.

Is it perhaps the only is it the only one yes that's where i was going to

well it's the only one about the making of a cast album that i'm aware of but it is whether it was the only or not it is amazing

so it says original cast album company

It's D.A.

Pennebaker, who worked on the Bob Dylan documentary.

He later worked on The War Room, done a million documentaries.

And it was essentially recording all of these people making the cast recording to company.

There's a famous scene of

thousands of dollars.

Elaine's dritch getting progressively angrier and drunker as she can't sing her song.

Correct.

And this was all probably planned on her part, in my opinion.

That's one hell of a good take.

I want you to come in and listen to it.

Perfect.

And let's hear it for the lady.

I would say, also, another big favorite from me is Jesus Christ Superstar.

Go to.

We'll never get tired of it.

Say more because Jesse is making some faces over here.

Well, Jesus Christ Superstar is a peak of musical theater.

In his book, Andrew Lloyd Weber, the way he talks, I highly, by the way, if you can go to the theater, read Andrew Lloyd Weber's autobiography.

Oh, for God's sake, that is not the top choice.

Listen, it's 700 pages of insane drama, self-aggrandizing drama.

Insane drama is the perfect description of Jesus Christ Superstar.

Can I admit something terrible?

The only version of Jesus Christ Superstar I've ever listened to or heard was the one that NBC did when they were doing live musicals.

With John Legend?

With John Legend.

Yes.

That was unfortunate.

So as a result, I can never listen to it again because that was not the best.

We didn't mention those musicals, which were a pandemic

kind of experience.

I'd love to use those as sort of a transition to talk about sort of full performances.

You know, I have a child.

He's a preteen.

And as many kids of his generation, he went through a Hamilton phase.

He

streamed the hell out of it on Spotify.

Eventually, it came to Disney Plus, and he watched it over and over and over again.

We had a copy of the sort of deluxe lyric book that is annotated, and he would read the lyrics while he was listening or read the lyrics while he was.

And then we eventually went to see it on stage, and it was still as good as he thought it would be because he had essentially memorized the entire thing before going to see it.

He was in a production of the SpongeBob SquarePants musical and he was able to see the Ethan Slater production on Amazon Prime in the months leading up to actually having to perform one of those roles.

And I feel like there is a way

in which, you know, watching some of this stuff, as you said before, doesn't cut you off from enthusiasm for wanting to see it live.

Seeing Waitress on HBO and listening to that recording, if it comes back, people are still going to want to see that.

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that those captures make people want to see the shows more, not less.

That has really

is going to lead to a very deep rethink of the industry, I think.

And I think we need to talk about something very important.

Actually,

the George Clooney

capture of Good Night and Good Luck just dropped on Amazon.

There is a great

and perhaps decisive battle to be fought

against ignorance,

intolerance,

indifference.

So George Clooney did a stage adaptation on Broadway of his own movie, Good Night and Good Luck that came out in 2005.

And so the question is a very simple one.

Not what power unchecked can do.

We have seen that answer.

No.

The question is,

what are you prepared to do?

Except in the Broadway version, he was playing the part of Edward Murrow, that he didn't play that part in the film.

Good night.

And good luck.

It was a huge hit on Broadway.

The ticket prices were astronomical.

And they actually did a live broadcast.

They live stream the penultimate performance on CNN when not only you had to be there, it was Appointment Theater.

And now, actually, now you can see it on demand.

It is a huge deal, I think.

And I actually watched it yesterday, and it's a very good capture

because the capture director worked very well with the David Cromer staging.

It's a very handsome capture, and I think it's going to do great

for this particular property.

And we've been talking a lot about musicals, but this is a play about a very serious and dark subject

that was quite successful on stage.

And I was curious how it was going to work on film because a lot of it takes place on screens.

It takes place in a television studio where Edward Armuro is broadcasting his CBS news show and responding to the communist witch hunts.

How did it work?

I think it works really well because there's a really good balance of close-ups, for instance, which is a very cinematic thing that you don't,

well, you don't get it the same way on stage where you get a more like bird's eye view of the whole thing.

And then they

pull out at very judicious moments because there's a lot of projections and use of video in the show.

We were just talking about that.

And I think it works really well as this hybrid of film theater.

And again, I feel like we're coming full circle because

those

theater on television used to be big in the 50s and 60s where people were writing, also playwrights were writing specifically for that medium.

And then it disappeared, and now maybe it's coming back.

I would love to see that.

Sort of like Rod Serling doing Requiem for a Heavyweight or John Frankenheimer directing live theater on.

Two cuts.

Yeah.

I come prepared.

Okay,

I come prepared.

What are some other recommendations, if you have them, on things,

theater that people can watch?

Well, the Andrew Scott Vanya, which I believe it's still available from National Theater Live.

I know.

Yeah, I love live.

I love

being alive.

As for my

personal life, I mean, there is absolutely nothing in it that is in

the slightest bit good.

It was a great production and it's a great capture as well.

I would say I'm a big fan of Heather's the Musical.

And there's actually a pretty good capture of a British production

that used to be on Roku, may have migrated somewhere else, but it's around.

We haven't talked too much about movie versions of musicals, largely because many of them are so bad.

But one I particularly love is Little Shop of Horrors.

Does it have to be human?

Beep me.

Does it have to be mine?

Beep me.

Where am I supposed to get it?

Missy Mo.

Rick Moranis.

Rick Moranis.

Yes, Frank Oz directed.

Yeah, it's of that period.

It's one of the few that's excellent.

It's so good.

We watched it at home.

We listened to Lil Shapahara on vinyl a bunch, and then we watched the film version.

You are the perfect example of what we're talking about.

It's not just that

this kind of engagement in other forms of theater

does not eat into the ticket sales.

It enhances the experience when you do go.

This is what we did.

You're absolutely right, because we listened to it on record, even though it's the 21st century.

We watched the film.

I showed my son the film version, and then he and his uncle went to see it off Broadway or wherever it is, right on 40 whatever street.

So he got to experience it in all three versions.

I think that's always been the way, and it's great that there's now more ways for that to be the way.

What are some other

we could have a whole episode on great movie musicals, but I would just love to hear some of your favorites.

The best movie musicals are generally not made from Broadway shows.

Singing the Rain, would you agree?

Bandwagon.

Right.

So, with that proviso,

what do you think of Chicago?

I'm a little scared to say it because I'm sitting right there.

Many directed by Rob Marshall.

That's what you're saying.

I'm not a fan of Chicago because of the editing, which I think does a huge disservice to the dancing.

Yeah, no, you're right.

So I'm not a fan of chopping off body parts and eating.

No, really?

I heard you were.

I know, I know.

It's only in my

other life as a serial killer of shows.

Aren't we all?

Okay, on that high note, let's take another short break.

And when we return, we're going to play a little theater game.

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Okay, so now we've come to the last act of the show, and it is, as always, a game.

Jesse and Elizabeth, I have four rounds of theater-related questions for you.

Elizabeth, you seem like you don't want to participate.

No, I do, I do, but it's I know I'm going to fail unless there's a header's question.

The point here is not to win.

The point here is to have fun.

However, someone will win.

And someone will win something, an actual thing that I'm going to give that person at the end of this quiz.

Are we ready?

Ready?

Yes.

The first round is titled Strike Up the Band.

I'm going to play you a clip from a famous musical overture, You Name the Show.

First,

Elizabeth.

Love as Jesus Christ Superstar.

Jesus Christ Superstar.

That is correct.

I'm proud that I didn't know it.

Next one.

Jesse.

That's the producers.

The producers is correct.

Very good.

Next one.

Jesse.

Merrily we roll along.

That is correct.

Final question in this round.

Honestly, neither of you are.

My subway ride?

No, no, no.

It is October,

so we have chosen the overture from the musical Carrie.

Oh, whoa.

Seven people could have gotten that in the world.

Next round.

This is Move Curtain Upwards.

We're calling this one, aka the MCU round.

I'm going to play you a clip, and you tell me what actor from the Marvel Cinematic Universe is performing.

Oh, no, I'm out.

This is a little bit.

You are not out, you are in.

Get your hand on that buzzer.

All right, all right, let's go.

First one:

There's a bright golden haze on the meadow.

Jesse, actor, Hugh Jackman.

That is correct, Hugh Jackman.

I actually knew that one, but you were faster.

There was a great one.

That was Hugh Jackman, who has played Wolverine in Oklahoma.

And it looks like it's climbing clear up to the sky.

Next.

to be or not to be

that is the question.

Who played Hamlet?

Everyone played Hamlet, but who from the MCU played Hamlet?

Jesse.

Scissorman.

Incorrect.

The gal plays Loki.

Incorrect.

That is Tom Hiddleston.

Good guest.

This is Benedict Cumberbatch, who plays Doctor Strange in the MCU films in Hamlet.

For in that sleep of death,

Not Scissorman.

Not Scissorman.

Everyone's favorite superhero.

All right, final question in this round.

A customer!

Oh, wait, what's your rush?

What's your hurry?

You gave me such a fright.

I thought you were the don't stop a minute.

We know the show.

The two of you clearly know the show.

This is

Patty Lupone.

In Sweeney Tug.

Patty Lupone played a character in the Marvel TV series Agatha all along.

I was going to say she's in the MCU, but yes.

TV counts.

Round three, intermission is just a grown-up word for recess.

In this round, I'm going to ask you questions about some of the most performed musicals and plays at American high schools.

Question number one.

Perhaps it's the colorful cast that has made this board game adaptation one of the most popular non-musical plays in American high schools.

Jesse rang in first.

There is a buzzer.

Clue.

Jesse is correct.

The buzzer is how we keep order.

I don't know how else to keep order.

By the way, in France, Clue is called Clue eteau.

Clue edot.

And in England, also.

Isn't that weird?

Yeah.

They're so weird over there.

Okay, second question.

Of the top 10 musicals performed in high schools in 2023, three were based on cartoons.

Name any of the three.

Jesse.

Shrek.

You're a good man, Charlie Brown.

The answer is Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, and SpongeBob.

Okay, you said cartoon.

I was thinking like a cartoon, like an illustrated cartoon, not an animated film.

Like Tintin, the musical?

Tintan?

She is culturally deprived.

Question number three.

This collection of nine short plays never played Broadway, but it's become a favorite of high school since its off-Broadway debut in 2006.

Something Maine.

You have to ring the buzzer.

Jesse.

Something Maine.

Almost.

Almost Maine.

It's almost Maine.

Almost.

You're almost.

You guys are both almost doing great.

Round four.

This is the 11 o'clock number, Jesse and Elizabeth.

A great place to see what's going on on Broadway, as Jesse talked about, is at the Tony Awards.

Every year, performers from the nominated shows perform as part of the telecast.

Now, I'm going to play you a bit of a Tony performance.

You get one point if you name the show, and you get a bonus point if you can name the Tony-winning performer in the clip.

First clip.

There is a brotherhood

of man,

a bonavored role.

Jesse.

how to succeed in business without really trying, correct?

And it's Daniel Radcliffe.

No, it's Matthew Broderick.

It is Matthew Broderick, but you did get the musical.

Next clip.

No canary in a cage for me.

Jesse.

That's Sutton Foster in Thoroughly Modern Miller.

Correct.

You got both right.

Well done.

Well done.

Next clip.

Isn't he

a little bit of a musician?

Jesse.

I think that's Catherine Zeta Jones in A Little Night Music.

You got a both roll mic.

Oh my god.

Amazing pull.

I knew it wasn't anyone who did it well.

Oops.

Final clip.

Wow.

You live in my house.

You sleep your behind on my bedclothes.

You put my food in your belly because you are my son.

You are my flesh and blood, not because I like you.

It is my duty.

Jesse, James Earl Jones, fences.

Correct.

Wow.

Okay.

I don't need anyone in the booth to tell me who the winner of this quiz was.

Respect.

It was Jesse Green.

Wait, let me dream for a minute.

What am I going to get?

Jesse, I have a prize for you.

It's the lyrics to a little night music printed out instead of my having to write them out.

We have something for you that we call the Gilby.

It is a small plastic golden trophy with my face on it.

And it is now yours, my friend.

Cherish it.

Wow.

Cherish it.

And it's just the right size for some liquor.

So I agree.

I have to say, take a shot of the MCU round was like taking a nerd sandwich and then

putting on a very thick layer of nerd jam on top.

Yeah.

And then closing it and putting some nerd icing on the top of the top.

That sounds delicious to me, Elizabeth.

I think so.

Elizabeth Fitzentelli, Jesse Green, thank you both for being on the Sunday special.

Thank you, Gilbert.

Thank you.

This episode was produced by Luke Vanderplug and our quiz master, Alex Barron, with help from Tina Antellini and Kate Lepresti.

We had production assistance from Dahlia Haddad.

This episode was edited by Wendy Dorr and engineered by by Rowan Nemisto.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Baitoup, and Diane Wong.

Special thanks to Paula Schumann.

Thanks for listening, everyone.

We'll be back next week.

See you then.

From 1972 to 1978, 33 young men were kidnapped, murdered, and buried under their killer's house, and no one was the wiser.

The new Peacock original drama, Devil in Disguise, John Wayne Gacy, reveals the conflicting layers of Gacy's life while weaving in heart-rending stories of his victims.

The series explores the grief, guilt, and trauma of the victims' loved ones and exposes the systemic failures, missed opportunities, and societal prejudices that allowed Gacy's reign of terror.

Devil in Disguise, John Wayne Gacy, is streaming now only on Peacock.