Sunday Special: ’Tis the Season for Cookies

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Welcome everyone to the Sunday special. I'm Gilbert Cruz.

The holidays are upon us and that means so many people are doing a lot of cooking and baking and hosting parties, all of that fun stuff. Here at the New York Times, it's Cookie Week.

We all love cookies. Cookies are great.
Cookies are wonderful.

I personally can only eat gluten-free ones, which is probably why I just never realized what a big deal Cookie Week was around here, or frankly, even what it was.

My guests today are two people who think a lot about cookies, of course, but also about all they baking and cooking and entertaining, because it's their job to do so, Melissa Clark and Von Vreeland.

Melissa Clark has been writing about food for the Times for almost 20 years. She has a weekly column.
She writes one of our cooking newsletters. And is it true? I read this in your bio.

Have you written 45 cookbooks?

That is true. 45.
Yeah, you know, cookbooks are a volume business. Okay.
Yep.

Maybe we'll get into that. I didn't know that was possible.
Welcome, Melissa. Thank you.
So great to be here. And Vaughn Vreeland writes the Bake Time newsletter.

He is also the editor of a new cookbook just out this fall titled Simply Cookies. Cookies.
Vaughn, welcome. Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here. I'm very excited for what we're going to do here,

which is to talk about Cookie Week and also to eat some cookies.

So let's start with the basics. Tell us about Cookie Week.
Cookie Week. Okay.
So in 2020, we were kind of figuring out ways of bringing people together.

And we were kind of thinking, you know, holidays, people might feel very isolated. How are we going to ultimately try to have something where people feel very engaged online?

And we decided to host a virtual cookie exchange.

It was at first a small kind of handheld operation where everybody was just filming themselves in their apartments or their homes making cookies that meant a lot to them.

And then the next year we invited people back to our studio for year two. And then it just kind of snowballed.
Pardon the awful pun, but

into this thing that was just bigger than itself. Yeah, well, I mean, cookies have always been part of our holiday coverage because you can't do the holidays without doing cookies.

We've done cookie boxes, we've done cookie swaps, we have done reader cookies. But then in 2020, we decided to really codify it and make it a thing and a celebratory thing, and it's taken off.

And it's just so fun because it's something that people look forward to every year. What are the New York Times cookies going to be for Cookie Week?

And while we celebrate all the cookies that we have in our database, we also have seven specific cookies, one that we highlight every single day.

And you, Vaughn, are like the, are you the organizer, the MC of this all? Like, what is that? Yeah, I would say now I'm more so the MC. I'm kind of the, the.
What are your responsibilities as MC?

Well, we have some live events that we do. Um, apart from that, kind of the planning phases, trying to figure out, you know, is there a theme this year? Like, who do we want to be involved in this?

It's a lot of, I feel like I'm the MC in cabaret, where I'm just like, I'm behind the scenes pulling the strings. But you have your own number.
Yes, that's true. You do have your own number.

And I'm causing chaos, of course.

But yeah, so I think that that's kind of, that's my job is just to like, you know, be a be a purveyor of fun. That's what baking is.
That's what cookies are. They're fun.

The Cabaret MC is very creepy. I'm not getting creepy vibes from you.
Well, it depends on

saying it. That is true.
That is true. So was there a theme for the cookies this year? Yes.
This year, our theme was, but make it a cookie.

So we, the last few years, have been just kind of trying to like identify themes that have really jumped out at us for what cookies are popular with people.

Seems like a lot of times we have these flavor profiles that people might not necessarily associate with a cookie, right? Like a drink turned into a cookie.

Yeah, and you've done a lot of that. Yeah.

So we, we, I think not to toot my own horn or anything like that, but I think that those cookies, a lot of times people, they're like, oh, I didn't realize that we could have a gingerbread latte, but as a cookie.

So this year we kind of ran with that theme a little bit. Yeah, and it's a good way.
It's also a good way to get people.

I mean, you know, we're using this, the same flavors, you know, there's only a limited number of flavors you can really use in a cookie, but we're spinning it a little different.

And that makes it more fun, I think, because it's like a gingerbread latte cookie. So it's adding a little bit of coffee to a gingerbread, right? So that's a fun twist.

And then calling it latte makes it really fun. It just takes it up a notch.
Well, speaking of, I mean, your cookie this year really,

I was like so pleasantly pleasantly surprised when I tasted that cookie. Well, it's not even really a cookie.
Oh, wait, it's a big, we have a debate here. This is a big debate in the cookie world.

Okay, here's a question. Should we put it to Gilbert? Is a brownie a cookie?

I mean, this is really cool.

Is a hot dog a sandwich? Exactly. Exactly.
It's a cookie addition. Well, when I saw your recipe,

my first question was, oh, were... Brownies are cookies now?

I have not come to a conclusion on it, but I'd love to hear what the debate was about about your well tell us about your quote cookie.

I'm going with it. I think brownies are absolutely cookie.
Well, first of all, cookies, I feel like we need a nice broad definition, especially around the holidays.

When you're making a cookie box, you want as many options as possible. So brownies are in, blondies are in.
And the cookie that I did this year is a Vietnamese coffee brownie.

So it has the flavors of Vietnamese coffee. So it's got that espresso.
You know, like you want like a bitter espresso. And then you want the contrast of sweetened condensed milk.

And it's both of those things in a brownie. And it's an, I mean, if you think about those flavors, they work really well together.

And then putting it in a brownie form with that chew and a little crunchy edges, it's so good. Okay, can I, I feel like you're slightly avoiding

the cookie is a brownie. That's a true question here.

Okay, brownie cookie. Yes.
Okay, well, so what is a cookie? Define a cookie. Webster defines cookie as.
No, Gilbert. If Melissa says it's so, it is so.
You know, that's the real answer.

That's the real answer. There we go.
I mean, honestly. Definitions change.
Definitions change. Dictionary definitions change.

But don't you think a cookie is a sweet little thing that you pick up that you can, you know, it's like a little small bite of something that is

sweet and delicious. You were the one to convince me.
I mean, I would follow you blindly in the dark, honestly, with pretty much everything.

But yeah, I mean, I think if we can call any sort of bar cookie, like if a blondie is a cookie, then why can't a brownie be a cookie? I don't know. Or a lemon bar.
Is a lemon bar a cookie?

Blondes can't have all the fun.

I also love the idea.

Maybe we'll talk about cookie tins as like an item, but opening up one of these things and seeing a brownie or a bar or something in there that sort of mixes up just like the visuals of it.

If you're going to call, if you want to have cookie week and you want to include brownies, it's going to make more people happy. Therefore, it is a cookie.
That is just a good definition right there.

Let me ask you, Vaughan, about your cookie, which

when I first saw the title of it, as someone who loves movies, I said, oh, this is interesting. And then I saw all the ingredients and I was like, I don't know about this.

But then I saw the video of you making it. And I was like, I would like to make that.
Thank you.

Well, so my cookie this year is a popcorn bucket cookie because one of my favorite things about, well, just life in general, but also the holidays is watching movies with people that I love.

So the popcorn bucket cookie has.

you know, all of your favorite movie theater candy in it. It's brushed in butter, rolled and crushed popcorn, baked, topped with a little flaky sea salt.
It is kind of like my,

I would say childhood dream, but also my like 32-year-old dream of just like getting a handful of popcorn, raisinettes, sour patch kids, Kit Kats, all of them.

So you can customize this cookie with whatever candy you want. What candy would you put in there? Oh, I would put Heath Bars in there.
Junior Mints. Junior Mints.
Junior Mints. Oh, that would be good.

Just because, you know, Junior Mint, like, that's my favorite movie candy. Oh, yeah.
That would actually be really good. You know, the only one that I'm not rocking with, I think, is

maybe a milk dud. Milk duds, they're hard to chew.
Milk, yeah, they are so good. I think they're going to get hot.
And I think that they would bake. Yeah, they would bake up weird.

Snow caps were like a little. What do I think about Whoppers?

Oh, I love a Whopper. Oh, that would be good.
You got to chop it up. Yeah, Whopper would be good.
I actually did put Whoppers in one of my tests. It was fantastic.
Tell us about a fail.

Tell us about two flavors you tried to put together. Oh, I mean, gummy bears and raisinettes.

I think, well, that's specific to this cookie, but I also learned the hard way that you cannot put gummy bears in the oven.

Yes, yes.

I mean, it was a molten mess. It was like the

imagine what that looks like, Melissa. It was the 10th circle of hell in my oven.
I opened it up and it was smoky because it had somehow crept over the edge of my rimmed baking sheet. Oh, my God.

And it was alive. Yeah, it was alive.
It was alive. The gummy bears were revolting.
They were inside. They were trying to escape.

So, what are some of the other cookies that we have as part of Cookie Week this year? So, we've got a mortadella cookie, which is actually really interesting.

It's made to look like the salume, but

it's got freeze-dried strawberries and almond paste in it.

And it has the pistachios that you would find in mortadella, but then also macadamia nuts, which is kind of like harkens that that little pocket of fat.

The little white fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those are fantastic. Those are great.
They also look a lot like mortadella, which is like kind of creepy. Yeah, I think it has freaked some people out.
Like, I don't want my cookies to look like meat.

But again, I watched the video and I was sold. I feel like for me, actually seeing the way that these things come together make me more likely to want to try something.

You get to see the people having fun, you know? We have a lot of fun when we do that. Oh, they're great.

And people also, I mean, it makes it easier for people to really understand the process i mean a mortadella cookie like what is that even if you see the picture you're not exactly sure and then to watch claire make them like all of a sudden it all clicks so there's the mortadella cookie there's a coconut

the coconut cake snowballs which are really fun the developer who made them samantha sinavaratna wanted to kind of play with the idea of those hostess snowballs that you get, but also I remember them fondly.

But also like a beautiful coconut cake.

So they don't have that chocolate center like you would get in the hostess version, but it's just like this gorgeous, tender coconut cake ball that's made into a cookie.

It's like a miniature coconut cake. It's so good.
It's like bite-sized. I mean, so then is that a cookie? Of course, it's a cookie.
Yeah, absolutely. It's like a rectangle or a square, right?

Like, I think it's all kind of, to me, what you said, if you have fun with it, then that's a cookie. I love the, I love the payday cookies, the peanut ones.
Those are so good. Those are delicious.

Those are like salty, peanut, caramel, crunchy cookies, like the candy bar payday, which I love.

There's also,

I believe Eric Kim had a chocolate mint.

This is like a, it's like a bark, right? Yeah, it's like a bark, okay. Yeah, and that one's great because it's like this creamy mint topping on top of a cookie.

And then it's got chocolate. It's like the flavors of it.
You know those Andy's candies? Those little Andy's mints? Yeah, the ones they leave on your, in the hotel.

Exactly. So

those are the flavors. And they're just, you know, it's creamy, it's minty, it's chocolatey.

Vaughn, you spoke at the beginning about this idea of taking a cocktail and making it into a dessert or a sweet or a cookie. And there is one on this list that falls right into that category.
Ah, yes.

The dark and stormy. I do love a beverage as a cookie.
So your brownie, Melissa, and the dark and stormy could be two of my favorites on this list.

The dark and stormy cookie is this ginger cookie that's got like chopped up crystallized ginger in it. And then it also has a rum lime glaze.

And when you bite into it, it's like actually really, it's pretty rummy. Like, that's what I love about a recipe.
When you hear the words, you want to taste the flavors. Yes.
Yes, you do.

Like, oh, like last year, your buttered rum cookie. Oh, yeah.
That was one of my favorite cookies of all time. Did you have that one? That one is cool.
No, tell us about it.

Okay, so that is actually, it's a gluten-free cookie. It is made with almond flour, and it is like a little macaroon almost.
And it's, I mean, I'm talking about your cookie.

You should be talking about your cookie, but I'm going to go on anyway because I love it so much.

And it's got sliced almonds, so almond flour, sliced almonds in a little ball, and then you just brush buttered, like butter and rum right on top of it. And that makes it so delicious.

I told you I'm a maximalist at heart. That sounds so good.
I like the gilda lily.

That one is just, it really is one of my all-time favorite cookies. Oh, Melissa, thank you.

I think before we go much further, it'd be sort of perverse to do so much talking about cookies without eating some cookies.

Please. I have to admit something.
I sort of nodded to this at the beginning,

but I don't eat cookies much anymore because

I learned, I don't know, eight, 10 years ago, I can't remember now. It feels like it's always been part of my life that I cannot eat gluten.

I have a cilia condition, which changed my entire relationship to food, to bread, to pastries, to beer, to all the wonderful things, wonderful things in this world. Cookies being one of them.

Melissa, you were so nice. You brought in some cookies, however, that are gluten-free.
I did. And I I can eat.
Oh, I'm excited for you to try them.

This is a recipe that is on our, it's on NYT Cooking, and it's for gluten-free chocolate chip cookies. This is the kindest thing that someone has done for me in quite a while.

I'm going to open this plastic,

this beautiful plastic container.

Container here.

This is good, though, because I haven't had breakfast.

I'm so used to not eating when I'm trying to talk because we're all just going to be sloppy together. No, I know.
This is possibly a terrible idea

because we're supposed to be doing a lot of talking and now I have a cookie in my mouth, but it's just delicious.

They're good. Oh, they are good.

I don't bake, and I don't cook. Can I bake these? Is it? Yeah, they're so easy.
They're so easy. Okay.

Just like a regular chocolate chip cookie, which is a really simple thing. You cream the butter, you add your sugar, your egg, and then you add almond flour.

The almond flour really, it just makes them very tender. I feel like these are particularly tender.
Don't eat fun. Oh, yeah.

This is a fantastic recipe. Do you have to let the dough sit? You do not have to let the dough sit.
I think that that is where you would shine, Gilbert.

Doing nothing?

Well,

I feel like a lot of novice bakers

want instant gratification.

And especially with a chocolate chip cookie, usually

a glutinous one, you have to let it sit, let the flour hydrate, let the flavors develop. But this you can just bake right away.
Yeah. In fact, and the dough is excellent.

The The dough is that's like that is very good dough. Yes, we ate a lot of the dough, my kid and I.
We enjoyed the dough and we enjoyed the cookies. Um, those were delicious.
Thank you very much.

Oh, I am so glad you enjoyed them.

All right, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll answer some reader questions about cookies, holiday entertaining, and more. We might even have a cocktail question in there.

Ooh, we'll be right back.

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Okay, so a few weeks ago, we asked New York Times readers to send us questions about holiday baking, cooking, and entertaining, and we got a ton. Thank you so much to everyone who sent in a question.

Since we only have so much time, we've picked questions that in most cases, many people wrote us about. And we're going to take on cookie questions first.

Kathleen in Dallas, Texas wants to know if there are three cookie varieties that quote use the same base dough unquote and can save her time by just mixing up what the final additions to that dough might be.

Yeah. So I love that question because that's exactly how I bake a lot of my Christmas cookies.

The way to think about it is when you take, so you take your base dough, let's just say it's a shortbread dough.

You make a double or a triple batch, so you have a lot of it, and then you put it in, you divide it up. And after you divide it up, that's when you can start personalizing it.

And what you want to do, you want to do two things. You want to add flavor and then you want to change the shape.

So visually, your cookies need to look different and then they need to taste different. So what I would do is I would add spices or I would make a sandwich cookie out of them.

You know, you could put jam in the middle or you could put a buttercream in the middle. You could dip them in chocolate.
You could put nuts on top of them. Oh my God.

You could roll them into balls and then you can roll them in coconut. You could roll them out.
with a rolling pin and you can cut them into shapes. So you have so many options.

The thing about shortbreads, I find that they are the most versatile because you can do so many things with them.

You know, like chocolate chip cookies are always going to have that chewy texture and then you add different add-ins, right? Brownies are always going to have that brownie texture.

So, but ginger, something like a gingerbread or a shortbread are going to give you the most options because you can change the shape.

Another reader, Sam in Boston, says that, quote, for decades at holiday time, specifically on Christmas Eve, my family and I would bring treats to our local fire department.

Last year, a close friend who was a firefighter reported that his fire department gets inundated with cookies at holiday time. Unquote.
This is good to know.

Sam from Boston wants to know if there are savory items that they could be making instead. Oh, yeah.
I mean, I'm from North Carolina, so my mom makes cheese straws all the time.

You know, those like, it actually,

so I think cheese straws would be a really fun bake to go with, and then you pair that with pimino cheese.

That's gilding the lily. I think that, I think that

Cheese on cheese. Cheese on cheese.
Why not? Give it a little, add a little cayenne into the cheese straws because that little bit of spice that comes on the back end keeps them going back for more.

Oh, God.

Love that. Listeners.

Listeners. We're recording this at 10 in the morning.

I'm so hungry right now. Do you have any suggestions, Melissa, for savory

options? Spice nuts, just like delicious, spicy nuts. That's very simple.
Yeah, very simple, but they're really good.

We also have a couple of recipes for like sweet and spicy nuts that you do with a little bit of egg white, and you can make them on the sweeter side, on the spicier side.

I personally love them with rosemary and lemon zest, and then they just get really and salt, of course, good salt.

And they just, they're just like the perfect thing to just snack on and very satisfying in the crunch. Firefighters, notoriously hungry.
Hungry people. Hungry people.

Vandi.

In Oakland, California asks, quote, why do some cookies taste as good or better in days three, four, and beyond, while others are only truly good the day they are baked?

How do I pick recipes or pack cookies to last?

You know, I think that there's a variety of different factors of how cookies can keep. Obviously, what you're storing them in, Melissa brought the cookies in today in an airtight container.

Always suggests that if you're storing them in like a zip-top bag, for example, there is room for a lot of air to kind of get in there and stale your cookies out.

But ultimately, it kind of just depends on the ratios of fat in the recipe a lot of the time.

Or if there's oats, for example, in a recipe, those are going to draw a lot of moisture out of your cookie.

I love a Snickerdoodle cookie because the traditional Snickerdoodle has cream of tartar in it. Cream of tartar is this kind of acidic thing that honestly makes the cookies better and softer.

on day two or day three a lot of the time.

So I think that those types of cookies do keep really well.

You're like softer, chewier cookies, but also a shortbread if it's very snappy and, you know, tender, I think is a good cookie that will keep for a long time.

I have this brownie cookie recipe that also I think tastes better on day two or day three. It's just, if you're storing them correctly, you know, they're not going to stale as much.

I think that the only ones that really are the best on the day that they're made are the chocolate chips. Chocolate chip cookies are just amazing on day one.

Gluten-free chocolate chip cookies, however, last a lot longer. I'm glad I got them on day two here.
No, no, but they're, though, gluten-free is actually, it is actually a different chemical.

No, they're very good.

But no, chocolate chip cookies really, because you want them soft, right? You want them, and you want them a little warm.

I mean, that's the real joy of it is within a few hours so that they keep that texture. But otherwise, I think most cookies keep pretty well.

And cookies with spices and cookies that have chocolate in them get better because their flavors settle. And so if you're looking for cookies that get better after day two, day three,

find like a spice cookie, like a Snickerdoodle, for example, that would have, you know, some nutmeg in it. Or gingerbread, of course, keeps, gingerbread keeps like a month.

It really does because there are so many spices in there. So you put them in, as long as you store them properly, airtight, they're going to last.
One more question on this theme.

This is from Polly in Stafford, Virginia. She says that she and a friend, they have this tradition of baking all their holiday cookies together over the course of a long weekend.

She says, quote, it's a chance for us to visit. We go home with dozens and dozens of cookies.
What is the best way to wrap cookies to store in the freezer for later?

That you really want an airtight container with layers of parchment in between the cookies. So you get, I actually have a few of these.
I have these big

airtight containers. You do one layer of cookies.
You make sure that they are not overlapping. You want them flat in the container.

And then you take some parchment paper, lay it on top, and then do another layer. You really need a lot of freezer space because the containers are big, but they freeze perfectly.
They really do.

The cookies that freeze well, if you freeze them like that, I think most cookies really do freeze pretty well. I mean, not meringues.
Meringues don't freeze well.

But, you know, your average cookies are going to freeze perfectly. I do them that way, and they'll last at least a month, if not more.
You know, I learned this trick. It might have been from you.

I can't remember if it was from you or not, Melissa, but if you crumple up the parchment paper, it kind of fills in the pockets of

the space in your airtight container. So it almost acts more like a tissue paper that's food safe.
And that also keeps the cookies a little bit more protected, a little bit more insulated.

Also a good way to ship cookies, too. If you want to ship cookies to your friends, again, pick those cookies that are going to be better on

kind of day two or day three, obviously. But yeah.
This is real. These are real pro pro tips right here.

I forgot about to say that. That is such an important nuance there.
Okay. We are going to move on now from cookies and into more general holiday entertaining questions.

We got a few people asking about signature cocktails for a party. This question is from Alicia in Hopewell Junction, New York.

She says, quote, with fewer people drinking alcohol these days, side note, not me, I'd love some recipes for a sophisticated holiday punch or drink base, no sprite or sherbet, that is delicious both with or without liquor.

Do you want to take that?

I feel like, well, first of all, I have to preface this by saying Melissa is the person who got me into batch cocktails, but you will also be hearing from my lawyer because the first time that I ever made a batch of Manhattans was last year at Thanksgiving.

And I learned the hard way that if you're making a batch of Manhattans, you need to kiddie-proof all of the corners in your home because I tripped and fell and split my head open. Oh, God.

So first of all, drink responsibly. Sorry.

I don't know if I should be blamed for that. No, you're not.
No, no, I'm just kidding, obviously. But

I think, you know, I love at the holidays a cider, any type of like apple cider that you can add lots of warming spices to, citrus to. You can steep those ingredients in the cider.

And then, you know, you just have people spike it. Some people like rum.
Some people like bourbon. Some people want vodka.

And there's, you know, I think that that's a fun way of kind of creating something that pleases all sorts of drinkers.

And what I like to do also is I like to do a simple syrup that's infused with something, some really... intense aromatics.
Like I love rosemary and lemon.

That's a flavor profile that work really well with a bunch of different alcohols. And it's also, you can turn it into lemonade, right? With a

sophisticated edge. So you make a simple syrup, really easy, equal parts, sugar and water.

And then you take some fresh rosemary and some lemon zest, let it simmer for a few minutes, strain it, and you have this lovely, herby, lemony, aromatic syrup.

And then that is what you can use as the base for all kinds of punches and mix it with seltzer. It's really good.

It just makes this instant, delicious soda that is so much better than Sprite, but you know, a crowd pleaser. Should I be embarrassed to admit that I buy simple syrup? Yes.

It is so easy, Gilbert. Oh my God, you can even appreciate your honesty.
Just take sugar and water, hot water. You can boil a kettle, put it on the sugar, let it sit there, and boom.

No, I mean, yes, conceptually, I understand what you're saying. I make mine in a microwave.
Oh, even better.

You can literally just put equal parts, sugar and water, in a microwave, Gilbert, and in about two minutes, you've got it. Okay, we'll stop shaming him.

If it's easier to buy it, buy it. You know what? No,

if it works for people, it works for me. Exactly.
So, Gilbert,

what is your kind of go-to holiday?

There is one that I made a couple of years ago that I feel like I only break out around the holidays because there are way too many ingredients involved.

But it's sort of like a cranberry orange Manhattan.

Definitely is too sweet because after two, your sugar is just way too high. But it's, you know, rye or bourbon cranberry juice.
You know, you get some orange bitters in there or some orange juice.

Maybe you top it off with a little ginger beer to give it a little kick and you can batch it. That sounds great.

I think that's, yeah, I like, I like the idea of what Melissa says, though, of adding like your aromatics.

I think whatever kind of base you're going with, adding those, adding rosemary, adding citrus, adding ginger root, those types of things are really going to kind of elevate your batch cocktail and make it feel just a little bit more special.

I think ginger beer is really smart too, because so you're adding that and you're giving it a kick. So in a way, ginger beer is like an infused thing that you don't have to actually make.
You can buy.

So that's very smart.

Pay attention when when you're making this. Do not put ginger beer in the cocktail shaker.
Top it off at once.

I've done it several times and I taste like, oh, I messed this up again.

Our next question is about what to serve for a holiday meal. I feel like we could do a whole episode on this, but there's one question here from Lauren in Livonia, Michigan.

And Lauren asks, What's a good main course meat to serve that's not a ham or turkey, but not so easy to overcook or expensive like a prime rib? Oh, I say I'm a big stew person, a braise of stew.

So like lamb shanks or short ribs, because you can make it ahead. It's special because you're not going to buy, you know, like a cut like that, but it's not as expensive as a prime rib.

You can't over, you really can't overcook it. I mean, it's going to just fall off the bone and be delicious.
And you make the whole thing the day before, heat it up. on, you know, for your dinner.

It's festive, it's special, it's not, you know, going to break the bank, and it's it's low stress because you can do it ahead. Yeah.

The idea of making something ahead, particularly when you're having people over, when you're hosting people, is really underrated.

It's a lifestyle. I mean, I don't like to cook a la minute for anybody except my husband.
Like, literally, I do not want to make, I don't want to chance it. I want to do it ahead.

No, Melissa is the queen of make-ahead. Anytime we're at a pitch meeting, it's like, make a head Christmas.

Yes.

I think that's a fantastic idea.

You know, when you were saying that, the wheels got turning, and I'm like, what if you did that and kind of turned it into like a Guinness pie of sorts, like a British, like, you know, add some shortcrust pastry, pie dough, puff pastry on top, and then bake it.

You can put, do individual servings. You could do it as a large format thing.
And that kind of makes it feel a little bit more festive, too. Or like mashed potatoes, yeah.
Shepherd's pie or like

cottage pie. I know, yeah.
My answer for that was going to be pork tenderloin, but then that is also easy to overcook.

I mean, I know for myself, it's like one glass of wine later, and I didn't hear the timer.

Our next question is, it's less about food and drink and more about entertaining itself, specifically about party favors.

Laura in Manhattan asks, other than the standard Christmas party crackers, what could I place on each plate that would be entertaining and festive and spark conversation at the dinner table?

Okay, what about horoscopes, daily horoscopes for all your guests to find out their birthdays and cut them out? Wouldn't you? I would like that.

that is really fun that is a great idea um it crackers is in like the the open yes the things that you pull and it makes a little snap oh got it okay first i was like my mind was going what to put on a charcuterie board that's going to get the girls talking i was like well i don't know um

i'm like my mind goes to conversation starters like what

movie have you seen the most in your life?

What's that one song that can make you happy no matter what? You know, you you can write down, Vaughn, you could write down your questions on like festive paper and put them at each setting. Yeah.

Everyone is responsible at some point in the dinner for picking them up and answering that question. That's a good idea.
I like that too. Everyone gets a different question, right?

So one person's like, okay, what's the movie you've seen the most? The next person is like, okay,

what song do you know by heart?

I like that.

We should do that. Okay, let's do that.
Let's do that at our holiday party.

Before we move on to our game, I have one last question for the two of you, which is what are each of you planning on making for your holiday meals?

I think Melissa's going to cook something ahead. I am.
That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm doing oso bucco.

So, ososo buco, so veal shank, and it's just this white wine with tomatoes, and I put some anchovy in there, let it simmer the day before, and then for serving, you do like a fresh herb gremolata with lemon zest.

See my favorites, all the same things. I'm talking the same things, lemon zest, fresh herbs, garlic right on top.
And so, I'm going to do do that, I think.

If you are shopping for Melissa Clark for the holidays, just get her a vat of lemon zest. Actually, just get me, seriously, like, you know, would be the best present for me as my husband listening.

I would like to, I'd like a subscription, like a citrus subscription. Like, you know, you get like a box of citrus from some warm and sunny place delivered to your house in cold New York.

I would like that. That is a good gift.

So.

A couple years ago, I made Melissa Clark's Beef Wellington.

And my family was like, You're never making anything other than that ever again for Christmas dinner. So, what an endorsement!

No, truly, I usually actually do, and I'm not just blowing smoke. I usually do pick a Melissa Clark centerpiece.
Like, you do have a porquetta recipe, too, right? You have a porqueta porketa recipe.

I've made that one before, but the beef wellington is the thing that my whole entire family was like, Yeah, that's it. It's an investment time financially, but it pays off.
It's so, so good.

And also, you can kind of make it ahead. You can make it most of it ahead.
It's true. You just pop it in the oven.
You assemble the whole thing and then you just bake it. And then you just bake it.

Yeah.

We'll be right back. And when we return, as we do every week, we're going to play a little game.

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Okay, as we've been discussing all episode, food is a non-negotiable part of the holiday season.

Once you start noticing it, you sort of realize that you can't sing a festive song or watch a holiday movie without being constantly reminded about food.

So we have three rounds in this game about food and holiday culture, and you are going to buzz in to answer. Ooh, you are going to win, Vov.
I am called.

I don't know. I don't know.
Hands on buzzers, if you please.

Round one,

which we are calling Bring Us Some Figgy Pudding. I am going to describe the favorite meal of an iconic character from a holiday movie.
You name the character. Ready?

This character loves a large cheese pizza from Little Nero's, and if it's served in the back of a limousine on the way to Duncan's Toy Chest, that would be even better.

Vaughn. Kevin McAllister.
Kevin McAllister from Home Alone and Home Home Alone 2, Colon, Lost in New York. Lost in New York, the better Home Alone.
That is correct.

This character likes spaghetti with maple syrup and chocolate syrup and MMs and marshmallows and a chocolate fudge pop tart crumbled on top. Vaughn.
Buddy the Elf. What's your favorite color?

Buddy the Elf.

Oh my gosh, I'm not sure. From the film of.
Melissa, get in the game here.

I'm really bad at this kind of thing. All right.
You got any 19th century literature in there? Oh, boy.

Can we rewrite the quiz in real time?

This character would like a turkey, specifically the prize turkey from the front window of the Poulterers, the one that's twice the size of Tiny Tim.

Vaughn. Ebenezer Scrooge.
Ebenezer Scrooge from a Christmas Carl, which is literally

19th century literature.

Tiny Tim gave that one over. You're right.
Tiny Tim did. Okay.

This character would also like a turkey. But if the Bumpus's dogs should happen to get loose, he'd settle for Peking Duck, preferably headless.

Bumpus' dog. That's our clue, but I don't get it.

Okay. I mean, I guess I'll throw a Hail Mary.
Is this

Ralph from a Christmas story? Right movie, wrong character. What is his name? Dad or the old man

from a Christmas story. Right, right, right.
Who might want? It's embarrassing, people. It's embarrassing.

This character would like anything but a Twinkie and definitely not a thousand-year-old Twinkie found in the drawer at Nakatomi Plaza while he's hiding from terrorists on Christmas Eve.

Fawn.

Bruce Willis's character in Die Heart.

John something. Oh, what is it? It's iconic.
John McClain. John McClain.
John McClain. I almost said.
Die Hard. Oh, John McClane.
Which is a Christmas movie.

We've been talking about this for years at this point. There should be no argument over it.
Round two, here we come a wassling. Here we come a wassling.
Christmas songs are full of references to food.

We're going to play you a bit of a Christmas song and you fill in the missing food. Bonus points if you sing.

There you go, Bonnie.

Let us begin.

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

Everywhere you go,

take a look in the five and ten.

Glistening once again.

With

Baugh. With candy canes and silver silver lanes aglow.
Candy canes, that is the correct answer. That is Perry Como's classic version of It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas.

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

It doesn't show signs of stopping.

And I bought some

Vaughn. Corn for popping.

That is Let It Snow as performed by country legend George Straight. Nice.
I tried to get my little twang in there. Okay.

I definitely heard it.

Next song. There's a happy feeling nothing in the world can buy when they pass around the

Bond. Coffee.

The coffee

pumpkin pie.

Melissa. I didn't tell you.
I'm really bad at this kind of thing. Coffee and the pumpkin pie.
I did not even know.

If you're going to have chestnuts roasting on the open fire, I'll get it, but that's about the only one.

That is the song Sleigh Ride, and that version is performed by the 80s Soft Rock Icons Air Supply. Oh, God.

Of course. Of course.

Oh, Hanukkah, oh, Hanukkah, come light the menorah. Let's have a party while all that's the horror.
Gather round the table and give you a treat. See both the name to play with the

lotkins to eat. And while we are playing,

the candles are burning bright. At least I can't.
Melissa, you got it. I got it.

All right, fine. You got it.
Latkas, latkas, latkas. That is Hanukkah, oh, Hanukkah, performed by the Bare Naked Ladies.
Was that actually Bare Naked Ladies? That was Bare Naked Ladies.

That was so good.

You're as cuddly as a cactus. You're as charming as an eel, Mr.
Griffin.

You're a bad

banana with a greasy black peel.

Vaughn, you are

killing it. That is, you're a mean one, Mr.
Grinch, performed by Thurl Ravenscroft. Yes.

So good.

Who, in case you didn't know, was also the voice of Tony the Tiger. Oh, is he really? Yes.
Yes, he was.

For

all

nights of mine,

we'll take

Cup of something.

Melissa,

you want a buzz in?

We'll take a cup of something. Kindness?

Was that Jennifer Hudson? That was Jennifer Hudson performing all Lang Syne. I'd recognize that vibrato anywhere.
All right, we have one more clue in this category. Y'all are doing great.

At least I got one. Two.
Two.

We got two.

Melissa. All right.
Here's my chestnuts. Chestnuts roasting on an open fire.
Chestnuts roasting on an open fire. That is correct.
That is Nat King Cole's immortal version of the Christmas song.

Amazing work, you two. Amazing work.
We have one more round. This is a round that we are calling milk and cookies, milk and cookies.

We have to end where we started, of course, with cookies. We're going to test your cookie knowledge.
I'm going to give you a word, and you have to tell me if it is a cookie or if it's not a cookie.

Oh,

good. Okay.
All right.

Let's begin. Chin Chin.

It's a cookie. It is a cookie.
They are celebratory biscuits popular in Nigeria and other African countries. Chin Chin.
Okay. Coochie Daddy.
Vaughn. Not a cookie? They are cookies.

They're Italian fig holiday cookies. So keep that in mind for next year's cookie week.

Coochie Daddy? Coochie Daddy. Not Coochie Daddy.

What did you call me?

All right.

Next one. Metigal.

Melissa. Not a cookie.
Correct. That is not a cookie.
It is a German dish of chopped pork served in the shape of a hedgehog.

Of course.

I make it every year.

All right. Next one.
Melo macarona. Melissa.
It is a cookie. It's a delicious cookie.
Yeah, I've had those too.

We have a recipe for those. Oh, do we? Yeah, at NYT Cooking.
Absolutely right. They are egg-shaped Greek Christmas cookies.
Next one.

Kausari Kanit.

Melissa. I'm going to say no.
That is not a cookie. It is the Finnish term for getting drunk at home in your underwear.

What was that one again? Cal Sari Kanit. All right, right.
So you're going to put that in your pocket. Okay.

Next one.

Alfajores.

That is a cookie. Correct.
That is a shortbread sandwich cookie, which is popular in Latin America. Next one, sumo tubojek.

Bon.

I'm gonna say it's not a cookie. That is not a cookie.
That is correct. It is the Turkish word for slug,

translating literally to snot bug.

Okay, whoever wrote this quiz, I love you.

All right, next one, mamul.

Melissa. Mamul is a cookie.
Yes, it is a butter cookie filled with figs, dates, or nuts. And that, Vaughan and Melissa, is our game.

Great job.

Unfortunately, only one of you could win. I am being told that, Vaughn, you are the winner of this week.
It was close, but you are the winner of this week's game.

You like surged in rounds two or three.

I could do the cookie thing.

I can't do the movie thing. Vaughn, you won, and we are giving you an actual prize.
Oh, my. Something rare.
It is a cheap golden trophy with my face on it, which we call the Kobe.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God.

You like me, you really like me. I'm going to treasure this forever.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, Vaughan, for being on the Sunday special to talk about Cookie Week. Thank you.
This was so fun.

You know, Cookie Week extends beyond the confines of December 1st through 7th. You know, celebrate it all year long.
It's a cookie month. Yeah, it's a cookie month.
Come on.

Melissa, thank you for being on. Ah, thanks for having us.
This was so much fun. Loved it.

This episode was produced by Tina Antellini with help from Kate Lopresti. Our quiz master is Alex Barron.
We had production assistance from Dahlia Haddad.

It was edited by Wendy Dorr. The Sunday special is engineered by Rowan Nemisto, original music by Dan Powell and Diane Wong.
Thanks for listening, everyone. See you next week.

We all have moments when we could have done better. Like cutting your own hair.
Yikes. Or forgetting sunscreen so now you look like a tomato.
Ouch. Could have done better.

Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab.
Get market insights, education, and human help when you need it. Learn more at schwab.com.