Hour 2: Stephen A. Smith (feat. Stephen A. Smith)

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This is the Dan Labatar Show with the Stu Gats Podcast.

What up, fellas?

How y'all doing?

Hanging in there?

Look at him.

Look at him.

He's insatiable.

He's indefatigable.

He's unconquerable.

What are some other words that Howard Kosell might use here?

Stephen A.

Smith joining us from an airport, off to his next conquest, always on the move.

Always nice to see you, Stephen A.

What's up, my brother?

How are you doing?

Are you doing well you seem you seem to be working a lot still

well that's because i love what i do so that's all it is i love what i do i'm having a good time um i'm just traveling right now i want to apologize to your audience i was supposed to be on a little bit earlier with my tardy ass self but i was going through um airport security so they held me up that's what held me up so i apologize for that what are you what are you smiling about roy why that that that tsa got on i can't believe they make stephen a walk through security i mean that should be you should have clear

i do i do have clear.

I do have clear.

No, but things seem unclear.

No.

Why are you getting stopped if you've got clear?

You got to go through and you got to be through.

Like, you can't be late.

You have to go through.

They got to clear you.

You don't have to take off your clothes and all of this other stuff.

And the lines are quicker.

But the bottom line is that you got to follow rules and regulations, my brother.

That's what I did.

There's no problem.

Okay.

Well,

I'm glad.

I'm not too big for that.

It's a rough year.

I mean, no more private jets here.

Big deal, you saw.

What's going on?

I use private jets sometimes, but not all the time.

Damn it, that's expensive.

You know, I mean, I'm not going to spend all my damn money, you know, not going to do that.

It is very nice to see all of your success.

You know that

I am very happy for you.

Not everyone is.

You know how this business is.

So

I will tell the people you should listen to Stephen A's two new shows on Sirius XM, the one on Mad Dog Sports Radio, channel 82.

I love what he has done to further the career of Mad Dog Chris Russo, and also on POTUS Politics channel, channel 124, because if you haven't been watching, he has expanded his game into that area.

So let me ask you the first question.

Why?

Because I love it.

It's what I love to do.

First of all, I love to work, but secondly and most importantly, I've always been a conscientious observer and I've always been somebody that's looking not to be one-dimensional.

So the opportunity to really expand, you know, my portfolio to such a degree is just a no-brainer to me.

Doing radio is nothing new, but I didn't only get, I'm not only getting paid to do that, I'm in a partnership deal with them.

So

that goes a long way.

I still have my ESPN obligations.

We know I didn't want to leave there.

And then the opportunity to still do that and then expand beyond that and start talking politics and

being on a POTIS channel and bringing that level of cachet to the equation is something I couldn't ignore either, while still keeping my ownership, complete ownership of my own YouTube channels and my production company in terms of creating scripted and unscripted content with a lot of stuff that I have coming down the pike.

I'm really excited about the plethora of opportunities that are available to me.

You know me, man.

I don't stop.

No, I want to.

I'm not going to.

Forgive me.

For those of you who do not know,

the deals that he has worked out most recently for ownership of his things, those things are important.

And he represents not only one of the most improbable stories in the history of ESPN, all of sports media, in that he got fired from ESPN and came back all the stronger.

It is a lunacy.

Which part of your story do you regard as the most improbable?

The fact that I was able to get back.

I mean, usually when ESPN lets you go, it's a death knell, particularly if you're a black man in this industry and, you know, you're considered a persona non grata and obviously people are not hiring you.

They're not talking to you.

I mean, that goes a long way.

I don't think people realize, Dan.

And fellas, when, you know, I departed from ESPN in 2009.

Everybody looks at the fact that I came back to Fox Sports Radio in 2010, a year later.

And then ultimately, I was back at ESPN in 2011.

But what they're not realizing is that from May of 2009 to April of 2012, I was not on television.

I was essentially banned, in my estimation, black bulk.

I was considered somebody that you didn't want to do business with.

And

when the worldwide leader let you go and they let you go with that level of trepidation or angst or whatever word is appropriate about you.

That's a lot to overcome, particularly back in the day.

You know, even though podcasts have been around for a while now, back in 2009 and stuff like that, it certainly wasn't as big, wasn't as formidable as it is in this day and age.

And so because of that, you know, you're looking at your opportunities and you're wondering where they were and who would ever touch you again, who would ever hire you again.

So that was the dilemma that I was faced with at that particular moment in time.

Well, we've talked about this part before, though, that

you're underselling it.

You were terrified.

You can't get this much out of your professional.

Your identity can't be this much wrapped into what you do professionally, working 300 days a year and not have all of that be totally terrifying, like as scared as you've ever been.

But you're a friend, so you know, more than most, there was a reason I was terrified, and that was because I was a new dad.

I had just had my daughter.

And so being poor and black, growing up,

knowing what welfare like, knowing what welfare cheese and bread is like, knowing what it's like to live in your home and wonder whether or not, you know, the mortgage was going to get paid, the rent was going to get paid, the food was going to be in the refrigerator, rats and roaches, holes in the ceiling, and all of this other stuff.

I was absolutely, positively petrified that if I didn't get something together, that

that was the state of affairs that was going to exist for my daughter, you know, my oldest daughter at the time, Samantha.

And so I was very, very petrified at that particular moment in time.

But I put my head down, I looked in the mirror, recognized where I made my mistakes, what I needed to correct.

And then I've been on a mission ever since.

And that's why I do what I do because I still walk with that fear to this very day.

It doesn't matter how much money I'm getting paid, doesn't matter what the contract says, doesn't matter what opportunities I have in front of me.

I am always of the mindset that at the snap of a finger, it can all be taken away from me.

That is how I approach my everyday life in terms of how I go about the business of doing my job.

And it's just a mentality that never escapes me, is who I am.

Doesn't seem terribly mentally healthy, is it?

Like, you know what I mean?

To be the, to, to be, to be so ambitious that that you uh can't be fearless because you know it can end in a sentence and end in a way that scares you the most well i disagree with that i don't think that i'm fearful in terms of you know going about the business of doing my job every day i'm just mindful of the fact that because of things that could potentially be out of my control, it could all be snatched away from me.

That's all I mean by that.

But it doesn't mean I walk into work every day scared, scared to go on the air, to say what I say and do what I do.

I say this affectionately because you and I have a relationship that now spans 30 years, Dan.

I think I'm more mentally stable than you, you know, and I say that affectionately because you, you know, you are a serious brother that is a conscientious observer, that wears your emotions and your feelings on your sleeve.

You're a deep thinker.

You internalize a lot.

And even though you vent, it's never finished with you.

It's always more to touch on, to to get into, always more people to check, always more issues to attack, et cetera, et cetera.

And because of that and how you can be, you wear a lot of it on your sleeve where you dealing in corporate America is a lot more difficult and arduous for you than it is for me.

Me, I understand me as a black man, having the feelings that I have, being a conscientious observer that I can possibly be, having a mouth, being as fearless as I can be.

I understand the troubles that are going to come with it.

So, you know what?

You're the kind of person that you might attack something and you don't give a damn about the third rail because to you, you're not thinking about that.

You're just thinking about what needs to be said.

I'm thinking about what needs to be said, but I'm always mindful of where the third rails lie.

I'm always mindful of how I can get fried.

And because of that, I might maneuver a little bit differently than you do from time to time.

But I'm more at peace with it than you are.

And which is why I think that I'm a little bit more mentally stable than you are.

I loved loved your examination of that, but you have just had a less emotional, I would say more realistic and more filled with hardship path towards success than I did.

So

you learned to work within the machine much better than I did because I just had gates open for me the entire time.

So the first time I run into a corporation telling me how to behave, that's when I lash out.

And you're looking at me over here and being like, Dan, you cannot go against the company that pays your checks.

You cannot do that publicly.

Well, I just say that to you like, listen, you right now, you got Middle Lock Media.

Look at the great job that you guys have been doing.

But in the process, man, at the end of the day, even though you're working with people, they answer to you.

And if they're doing things that's going to compromise your bottom line, you're going to have to deal with them because

you have bottom line goals to address.

The same is applicable to any company or corporation in this country or in this world.

You got to understand where the lines are drawn.

It's not to say that you can't be your true authentic self.

It's not to say that you can't be as real and authentic as you want to be and as you should be and as you're destined to be.

But in the process of doing all of that, it can't be at the expense of everybody around you.

That's cut the chat.

Wait a minute now.

They got to get something out of it too.

And so for me, I've always prided myself on being as true to me as I can possibly be, but being mindful of the fact that I don't just represent myself.

You know, if I do something, it's not just about me.

It's about first take.

It's not just about first take.

It's about the people I work work with on first take.

It's not just about first take or the people I work on on first take.

It's about ESPN.

And if it's about ESPN, it's also about Disney.

I got to take all of those things into consideration.

And that doesn't mean that definitively, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

This is what I'm going to say.

This is the way that I'm going to act.

All I've ever encouraged you to do is remember, you're not just having to think about you.

It's more than just about you.

And what I've encouraged you throughout the years, and you've been pretty damn hardheaded and listening to it, even though you get it, sometimes you listen, sometimes you don't, is that sometimes you're so, so passionate about it that you know what, you'll win the battle and lose the war.

And I'm saying, Dan, why?

You're too damn important.

Why would you do that?

Guess what?

This is not that important.

This might be down the road, but this right here is not.

Yeah, but you learned that.

Stephen A.

But

I think you learned that in 2009 in a way that I didn't.

I believe that you learned how to be unemotional about this because they got, once you got hit the first time, it was so scarring that you're like, okay, that's not going to happen again.

But that wasn't the first time I got hit.

Remember, I was in arbitration against the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Remember, I had to go through stuff where I got, I'm seeing people look at my face and tell lies and having to deal with it.

And I got lawyers by my side and I got to listen to 12, 13 hours of testimonies of nothing but damn lies.

And I got to take it.

Why?

Because it wasn't my turn to talk at that particular moment in time.

There was times that I've had, I've had struggles in my career, whether it be at the Philadelphia Inquirers, at the New York Daily News, before that.

Hell, even with internships when I was in college, trouble has always followed me at some point in time or another, because in my mind, I'm going to speak my truth to whatever power exists, and I'm going to say the things that need to be said that sometimes it's going to ruffle feathers and make people uncomfortable.

But that's the way it goes.

That's the business we signed up for.

And I think, in your case, respectfully, because again, I'm your boy and I understand that a lot of times you have very excellent points.

You're certainly not stupid.

You're a highly intelligent dude, but at some point,

at times, you let your emotions get the better of you you to a point where it gets in the way of the bigger picture.

And you are somebody that's religiously associated with the bigger picture.

You matter.

Your thoughts matter.

Your opinions matter.

And sometimes I'm looking at you and I'm saying, as I've told you to your face, is that really worth it?

Is that the fight?

Is that the sword to fall on right now?

Because it's a bigger one down here that you're going to be needed for.

And that's where you and I from time to time to differ.

Because for you, every fight is a big fight.

Some fights to me ain't worth a a damn.

It ain't worth my time.

It's not a big deal.

I can brush it off my shoulders.

And then there are some bigger fights where somebody needs to get their ass kicked.

I'm going to kick their ass.

All right.

So

walk me through the changes at ESPN, the changes in journalism that result in the combination of things that has the NFL now owning 10% of ESPN.

And somewhere within that, Spike Lee's documentary on Colin Kaepernick gets spike that was with with espn and spike lee's silence is purchased he's got an nda he cannot talk about it as someone who can step beyond uh espn and just view it as a journalism uh you know expert uh how do you walk all through through these all these changes

my temptation is to tell you don't try that with me dan on dan dan dan lebertard you know um there's but so much i'm gonna get into as it pertains to that but it's a legitimate question so i will answer it and find by saying this.

I don't know all the intimate details of the deal.

What I do know is this.

We live in a different age and everybody's in business with somebody.

And the NFL owning 10% of ESPN now is obviously of extreme benefit to us and extreme benefit to them.

Will it compromise journalism?

I don't think so.

I look at the league contracts we've had with the NFL.

I look at the league contracts we've had with the NBA, with Major League Baseball and stuff like that.

It doesn't stop our investigative reporting.

It doesn't compromise our integrity.

You as an individual have an obligation to recognize the fact that you have a business, you know, to handle every single day.

I know what my business is.

I'm a pundit.

I'm a commentator.

I'm a journalist.

I'm all of those things.

I'm an entertainer as well.

All of those things come with it.

My job is different from what Outside the Lines once was, or what investigative reporters are, or what beat reporters are, or whatever.

Everybody knows what their lines are, what their obligations are.

Big business, can it wield its heavy hand down upon it?

People have been suspecting that for decades.

It's no different now, especially with the exorbitant amount of dollars that exist.

We all understand that, but that doesn't mean they're going to get their way.

They can want it all they want to.

Well, you know what?

I'm getting ready to interview Roger Goodell in a few weeks.

They're going to stop me from asking him what I need to ask, whatever those questions are at that particular moment in time.

The same is applicable to Adam Silver, the same is applicable to Gary Beckman in hockey or Rob Manfred with Major League Baseball.

Whatever the story is, whatever the news is, whatever the audience wants to know and be edified and informed about, it's my obligation to bring that to the table.

And no deal between the league and ESPN is going to stop me from being me.

And I think that it's safe to say that is the case with almost everybody, just as it was the case with you when you were there.

You did what you do.

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Those sprinklers are starting to slowly come up on the the football field.

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Don Lebatard.

Doesn't matter anywhere.

We could do it in Buffalo or Baltimore, either.

You say you could do it where?

Anywhere.

Whoa, whoa.

No, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

He could do it anywhere.

That's crazy, murder.

Murder, tell him.

Stugats.

I had no idea Mean had that in his locker.

That might be his death.

That's crazy.

I'm not kidding.

That's crazy, killer.

It's two Americas dead.

You don't get it?

This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugats.

It's interesting though because journalism and business have always tried to be separate editorially.

Over the last 25 years, ESPN didn't have to choose to be a journalism business.

They could have just been a business, but they chose to try to be a journalism business.

And in doing so, you're

profitable.

It's good.

Credibility, profitable.

It's good for everybody for them to, you know, take the newspaper credibility and become a journalism entity.

But why?

The reason why, Dan, tell your audience this is because we didn't have all of those live contracts at the time.

So you had to get into original content.

And what better way to do that than have scribes, reporters, commentators, et cetera, who can get in front of the camera and articulate themselves in a way that was entertaining to an audience to make themselves attractive.

And look at the business we have now created.

Look at your business.

Look at at my business.

Look at the advent of the podcast industry.

Look at television and radio shows being created.

Look at television shows on Linear and streaming and beyond that have been created or will be created.

The point is you figure out different ways to make money, to monetize whatever product you could give to the masses that they would deem attractive.

That's what we're talking about here.

The game ain't as complicated as people try to make it out to be.

And certainly the money may appear to have changed things, but as things change, they remain the same.

Just like you find a way to work around around stuff in the past to make sure that business is still thriving and everybody gets fed, the same is applicable now.

It hasn't really changed that much.

I think though, that is it possible, I don't think it's possible for you to be naive, but you think that the NFL owning 10% of ESPN isn't going to have the NFL having more to say about the content that goes forward?

I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is they can try, but who the hell owns the other 90%?

And who are the bodies that you have to deal with?

Remember, you're doing business with us.

It's not just us doing business with you.

And the fact of the matter is the integrity that comes with ESPN and how we do what we do is not going to be compromised just because you got a piece of ownership.

It is something that we're giving you in return as well.

You understand?

You know, we get to air your games.

We get to air some of your content.

We get red zone and other, you know, other elements that come with the equation.

Things that are going to help you continue to monetize.

your brand that is the National Football League, which is king.

We get some benefits out of it.

They get some benefits out of it.

as is the case with any network that's in business with anybody that's all that's going on here and when you sit down and you're conducting business that's what you're going to do that's like me looking at you and saying that the big people that you do business with okay if something egregious happened and the world is aware that you can't talk about it because you're in business with them that's simply not true That's simply not true.

You're still going to do what you do because it's what you signed up for and they know what they signed on with you for.

So they can't deny you the opportunity to do the job that you swore to do for your audience and your constituents out there.

But you've just said that the job is changing, right?

And the business is changing.

I do believe that change is coming as well.

Just all you cannot have these entities be this strong and be silent partners.

Like I don't,

I'm not saying that they're going to be solid and I'm not saying it's not going to be a battle.

I'm saying it could be overcome, just like things were overcome in the past.

There's always something to complain about.

We get that part and nothing is perfect and totally smooth.

But in the end, the industry is the industry.

This kind of stuff has been going on.

So it's nothing new.

That's all I'm saying.

Your relationship with LeBron, there's no relationship at all with LeBron?

Zero.

That's unfortunate.

Yeah, but it's lights.

So what?

He do what he do?

I do what I do.

You understand?

And I'm going to continue to cover sports.

I'm going to continue to be fair and objective and professional.

But in the end, I'm going to call it like I see it.

And, you know, like I said, I'm not, I don't, I get mad when people go on social media and talk about he can't stop talking about lebron because the only time i ever mentioned him is when i'm asked you know if nobody asks me about him i won't talk about him i don't like him he doesn't like me we don't like each other it is what it is and to me what he did when he confronted me in the third quarter in the middle of the game court side um blaming me for something i did not do

and then tried to turn it into me being somebody that would go after somebody's family and then coming on the Pat McAfee show show thereafter just to insult me, that's a line you don't get to come back from.

But it's not going to stop me.

There's nothing I can really do about it because I'm not going to be unprofessional.

I'm not going to be unfair.

I'm not going to refuse to acknowledge his greatness as the second greatest play in my eyes that I've ever seen in the history of basketball.

Sure, fire, first battle, future Hall of Famer, one of the greatest players we've ever seen in our lifetimes, who we will all miss in terms of his on-court play when he is gone.

But there are things that I know as a man that he has tried to do to me.

And the things that he has said and the things that he has done, we don't like each other.

It's just that simple.

And it's probably going to stay that way forever.

And if it gets rectified because we have a conversation, I'm a grown man and I'm open to doing that, but I will never volunteer.

I will never initiate.

And as far as I'm concerned, if we never speak in life again, it won't bother me one bit.

We do not like each other.

But how did it get there, though?

That wasn't always the case.

Well, I just told you.

Things are that I'm not going to get into details, but there are things that have gone on behind my back.

And when people are systematically trying to do you harm, you know, in terms of your reputation, your integrity, and all of this other stuff, it gets to a point where enough's enough, you know, and

as it pertains to his son, the one thing that I will say is go back and look at the facts.

Him in high school.

him in college, him being drafted, him landing with the Lakers, him leaving in their opening night.

I never said a negative word until he was put in the game in the first quarter against the Philadelphia 76ers and got scorched.

That is the only time I've ever spoken a negative syllable about Bronny James, who I believe in and I believe has the potential to be not just a player, but a good, a damn good NBA player someday.

I've never said it.

And so LeBron.

you know, adroitly went about the business of painting it as me being somebody that would go after his son and got other NBA players to think that way and stuff like that.

And that's what he chose to do.

All right.

I know it's false.

I know it's not fair.

I don't, and I don't appreciate it, but it's not going to stop me from living my life.

He's got his family.

I got mine.

He's got his job.

I got mine.

And when he does great things, I'll be there to applaud it.

And when he does it, I'll be there to chronicle that too.

And that's going to be that.

And that's the way it goes.

And I can assure you, I'm not losing a minute's sleep over it.

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Not even once.

Not even if Mr.

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Don Lebatard.

There is no question, Dan Lebatard show included anybody else that this guy is the best player on the planet.

Whether he wins the Stanley Cup or the Cog Smite this year, there is no question about it.

Stugats.

Overrated?

Wait,

overrated?

What's going on?

Dan Labatard, how are you doing?

Oh, my goodness.

This is the Dan Labatar show with the Stugats.

Listen to Stephen A's two new shows on Sirius XM on the Mad Dog Sports Radio channel, Channel 82, and on POTUS Politics channel, channel 124.

Where is your relationship right now with Shannon Sharp?

My relationship with Shannon Sharp is a pretty damn good one.

I mean,

I got a lot of love for him.

He did a great, great job for first take.

Anything that I needed him to do, he has always been there for me.

And it's unfortunate what happened with his situation

and certain decisions that were made were way above my pay grade.

But in the end, he has always been good to me.

We never really knew each other that well until he came on first take, Dan.

But since he was on first take for those two years, our friendship developed, our brotherhood developed.

I got a lot of love for him.

I'm wishing him nothing but the best.

And if he ever needs me for anything, is there anything that I can do for him?

I will not hesitate.

Hey, Stephen A.

What's your relationship like with Skip these days?

Not much.

Skip and I just appeared on this podcast a few months ago.

You know, and he interviewed me for an hour.

We don't talk much.

I know I owe him dinner because he reached out and wanted dinner, but we've never really, really talked much off the air, believe it or not.

That was never the case.

It's just that I owed him a lot because he pushed for me to be on first tape, which obviously played a pivotal role in resurrecting my career.

I got a lot of love for him as well.

Obviously, the only hiccup we ever had is, you know, when he interpreted something that I said on JJ Reddick's podcast at the time, the old man in the three, where he, you know, came across as him needing me.

And then he went on a five-minute diatribe that I thought was completely unnecessary.

But we hashed that out when I spoke to him because all I did was say that no matter what was going on with him in the show,

he came to me and said, I need you because you're the only one I can trust to be sitting across from me two hours every day.

And he said, will you do that for me?

That's all I said.

And apparently somebody got in his ear and thought that I was saying more than that, which I wasn't.

And he came at it the wrong way, but I addressed it face-to-face, man-to-man with him in California.

And ever since then, we've been just fine.

So Skip and I don't have any issues.

I owe him a lot because, again, I wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for him getting me on first take.

And I don't think that you repay people that have benefited you so tremendously as he's done to me, you know, by castigating them in any way.

He and I have, I wouldn't say it's a great relationship in terms of us talking all the time, but Skip knows if he needs me, I'll be there for him.

Stephen A, who would pay for that hypothetical dinner how's that work oh it would be me it'd be me you know you give the card you like slip the card when you walk into the waiter or waitress like no

nothing nothing like that but that man that man is cheap

skip ain't paying money if he don't have to so you know he's definitely gonna look he's definitely gonna look to me to pay for it no doubt about it and I would love to because I love his wife Ernestine who I've known for years and so you know just because of her I would gladly pay the word who pays for dinner for you I imagine like a lot of your dinners you go and like people do the fake like reach for paying for the bill, but you ultimately end up paying for it.

So who's someone that actually will pay for dinner when you go?

And you mean somebody that I went out with that paid for dinner?

If you went out to dinner?

When's the last time someone actually pays for it?

That's a great question.

It's a great question.

How often does someone say, no, I got it, Stephen A?

Well, I would tell you, Mark Shapiro, the head of William Morris Endeavor, TK on Shaw.

That doesn't count.

That doesn't count.

He pays.

He does pay.

He does pay.

That's your agent.

That's your agent, though.

Technically, you're not an agent.

He's not an agent.

He's the president of the company, but you brought him up, just sure.

I would tell you, I would tell you.

Pretty much no one.

Pretty much no one.

That's terrible.

That is terrible.

How is that possible?

You want me to make you laugh at this one day and you want me to make you laugh at this one?

You know who wouldn't hesitate to pay for it?

My daughters.

Samantha and Nyla.

Do you know why?

Dad, Dad, we're going to get it back anyway.

We know.

You know what I'm saying?

We're just going to go home and we're gonna charge something else to your car there's no problem you know so they do it that way they make that that they get away with everything do they get away with everything with you do they get away with everything

it depends it depends if you're doing good in school and you're behaving yourself that's true there's nothing they can't get from me when they do that if they tick me off because they did something wrong or they messing around, they're messing around and

they're not doing their homework homework on time,

they're cutting corners in school and I get worried about it, then they're in the world of trouble.

But that's something they really do.

Well, we've been seeing Samantha a lot lately on camera with you.

You think that she has like a budding media career ahead of her?

Well, she could do what she wants to do.

She's a straight A student.

She's pretty brilliant.

She's an aspiring actress, but she's also an aspiring lawyer.

She was also an aspiring director and producer.

I mean, she does it all.

And she's one of those people that she's just very, very naturally naturally talented.

She's got, you think, I got to work effort.

She's tireless.

The difference between she and I is that I know how to get some sleep.

And she will stay up until she drops to get her work done.

And I got to get her out of that because I don't think, I think that's hazardous to her health.

She learned it from you, dad.

She learned it

from you.

That's what she says.

That's what she says.

But the thing about it is, her and her sister are polar opposites because her sister, Nyla, Samantha loves the attention.

She loves

the spotlight, the camera, and all of that other stuff.

Nyla wants no part of it.

Nyla wants to be the lawyer behind the scenes.

Nyla is sitting there where Samantha is talking about Love Island and all of this other stuff.

Good show.

Nyla is talking about Zoran Mamdani, the socialist that's about to win the mayor's seat in New York City.

And she was like, I love him.

He knows what he's doing.

He cares about the people.

Look at his policies, dad.

Everything isn't about capitalism.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with certain elements of socialism.

You got to really pay attention to this stuff.

This is who she is.

So it's like like she's completely opposite from her sister, but the nightmare is when they both get together because they're both smart, they're both quick-witted, and they're sharp-tongued.

And they are absolutely, positively merciless when it comes to me.

They hold nothing back.

What do they make fun of you for?

Oh, give us all of it.

What do you do that

annoys the people who love you?

Well,

my forehead, they both tease me about my forehead, my receding headline.

They both say, Dad, at some point, you got to let it go.

You got to let it go.

Just go bald.

You could do it.

We believe in you.

They do that.

Outside of that, you know, they just, you know, they just talked about their gift.

They say, we know, dad, we know already.

We know because I'm always on them about something, making sure I give them stories and history about their grandma.

God rest my mama's soul and the whole bit.

And because, you know, this Dan about me, I hear my mother's voice every day.

She passed away in 2017.

It isn't a day goes by.

I don't hear her saying something to me.

That's even at the risk.

don't do this, don't do this, don't do that, et cetera, et cetera.

And I try to embed in my daughters the way my mother did me.

And so they're just as resistant to it as I was to my mother when she was alive.

And so they just, they just, they just do what they do, but they know they're the loves of my life.

So what can you say?

They get away with all that.

I've always loved your relationship with your mother.

One of your things you've done that has been the greatest of professional honors is being on general hospital in terms of remembering your mother.

When you think of the things that move you most thinking about your mother,

what are they?

What are the things that carry you today beyond just thinking about her every day, the most emotional spots in you?

The thing that still hurts to this very day is that I never got married.

And the reason why that's so important is that when you're a man, and I tell this to men all the time, when you're a man and you

have such a wonderful mother, because I believe my mother was the greatest ever,

and you lose her, at that moment is is the first time you probably really thought about the fact that

I'm losing the one person in this world who loved me completely unconditionally and unconditionally.

And she's gone.

And when you're married, the belief is that baton has been passed essentially.

So if you lose your mother thereafter, that's a man, gonna be all right because you got that wife.

Well, I didn't have that.

And so because of that,

even though, you know, I've always had a wonderful woman in my life, the point is, is that there is an emptiness that comes with it because you're not sure if you'll ever have that again in life.

A matter of fact, you don't believe you will.

And because of that, it's that emptiness.

But what offsets it is in my case, having my two daughters, because

If nothing else, I know they love their daddy.

And because I know they love their daddy, it makes me feel good because i know that that's the one thing that my mother was big about the one thing that my mother was very very upset about was the fact that i had two daughters the wedlock is the only thing that she was ever disgusted about with me ever ashamed about and she looked me in the face and she said okay

you're gonna make up for this You're gonna be the best father you could possibly be.

You're gonna be nothing like your dad and you're gonna be everything that you're supposed to be as a father.

And you're going to make that promise to me, and you're going to keep it.

And so, loving my daughters and being the man that I am and being the dad that I strive to be, you know, I would try to do that anyway.

But to know that I made that promise to her makes it even more significant.

Problem is, my daughters know that.

Because they know that, they take advantage of it.

I don't believe you when you say that there are any.

Yeah, I don't think there are any rules there.

I think that you are just totally soft and they do whatever they want.

Yeah.

They're like, they're like, please, they take, listen, I try to discipline them, but it's like, where are you going?

What are you going to do?

What are you going to do?

You're really dad?

My daughter, just the other day, she's sitting up here with me.

She's like, hey, she says, why are you complaining so much?

You know, you're going to

give it to me anyway.

She's talking about some outfit she wanted to buy.

She said, why are you, why are you stressing yourself complaining?

You know, you're going to buy it to me.

Is it going to be now?

Is it going to be 15 minutes from now?

Are you going to wait 15 minutes to fight with me, but you just wanted to get over it?

That's how she does.

It's sad.

We said the entire time at ESPN he was undefeated.

Nobody had ever beaten him in a debate of any kind.

And now all he is here is just the world's softest.

Like, look at him.

Look at him.

He's falling apart in front of us.

All right, we got to make this.

Let's do.

Do you mind doing a top five beefs that Stephen A.

Smith has had over the course of his career?

We can make it two categories.

We can make it sports or media or mix the two.

You want to do a top five list of your top five beefs of all time?

You're asking me to, you're asking me to think about that stuff.

I haven't even thought about that stuff.

So I tell you what, you do whatever list you want.

You give me some of your recommendations.

And I'll get to that.

Whitlock.

I'll sign it on.

No, I don't want to do Whitlock.

You did Kevin Durant once upon a time where you said you told him you don't want to make an enemy out of me.

Does that even rank in your top five?

Does not.

Does not.

LeBron must rank in the top five now, right?

I guess so.

If you want to say, I mean, I don't, again.

okay, I know.

It's my list.

No, I don't want.

You guys got some nominees there?

Because I don't know who his top five.

Yeah, it's Whitlock.

No, but okay, but let's just put that off, that one off to the side.

We're not going to mention that.

That's a different

category.

Let's do just five.

Give me another one that is memorable of Stephen A's in his life because he's had some public.

Like, your persona has changed a little in that I would say, over the evolution of your career, you got one, Roy?

Cowboys fans.

Oh, yeah, Cowboys fans.

I stopped by.

But it's all in fun.

It's all in fun.

Like, I'm the guy that sit back and take pictures with them and troll them at the same time, you know, and expect them to troll me.

It's all in fun.

It really, really is.

I love seeing them cry though when they lose.

It's hilarious.

It's just, it's, oh, it brings me such joy.

It really, really does.

Are you eating up the 10 or the eight-part documentary on Netflix of them celebrating the last success that they had 30 years ago?

Of course I am.

Of course I am because it was almost 30 years ago.

January 28th, 1996, to be exact.

29 plus years.

They haven't been to an NFC championship game.

They haven't been to a Super Bowl.

They haven't won a Super Bowl.

Of course, I'm fully aware of this stuff.

And by the way, I don't know if you've noticed, but since that date, their value in the franchise has increased by $9.4 billion.

So they win financially.

They win in headlines.

Because

it counts.

I mean, but it's funny, though.

It is funny that they are worth more than any sports team.

And if Jerry Jones had to select between the two, which do you think he'd select, winning the Super Bowl or being the most valuable team in all of sports?

He would say winning the Super Bowl.

I believe it's being the most valuable franchise in football team.

I believe that man is about his money.

And I believe that man loves being.

recognized as the renegade that's making money more than anybody else and what have you because his attitude is i can't go on the field and play for you but i can do this so me doing this directly yeah i got one up on you my personal opinion is that he would prefer the latter but he would say the former stephen a is it crazy to say that jerry jones the face of the nfl um

no no it's not it's not crazy i don't think he's i think i don't think you can say it's crazy because think about it we talk about him more than we talk about the players no but that that is nuts there's no other owner that gets to be face of the league there's no such a thing That's not that's I agree.

He agrees.

He's just he can't even talk about it so much anymore.

He agrees so much.

Cut off.

Look at that.

Actually, that's exactly how we should end it with the opposite of first take.

He just agrees, and that's it.

Like, that's it.

We're done.

We have no more show.

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