GOOD FOLLOW - Lisa Leslie Talks Angel Reese’s Motion, A’ja Wilson’s GOAT Status, Cathy Engelbert Gets Booed & More

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Hey, what's up, y'all?

Welcome to Good Follow Show, presented by DraftKings.

I'm Ross Gold on Woody, and today I'm coming to you from our LA studio because we have a very special guest interview with a hoop legend, a Hall of Famer, WNBA great, just multifaceted queen, the host of Between the Lines and friend to the show, Lisa Leslie is in the building.

What's up, Lisa?

What's up?

Happy to be back on Good Follow.

Love your show, your podcast.

You do such a great job.

So this will be fun, of course.

Oh my gosh.

Are you part of the Good Follow family, Lisa?

I am part of your Good Follow family.

You did a great job, Roz.

I'm a fan.

You already know that.

Thank you so much.

You know, I remember like early, like we're talking like

the 2010s and those years out

at a college meeting you and telling you I wanted to be a broadcaster and, you know, could I get some advice?

And like for real, the Lisa Leslie at the time absolutely had kind words, advice, and always like, you know, tapped in with me.

I really always appreciated you.

You know, no, I always talk about I love being a role model, but then it's like when you actually, when action, you know what I mean?

That's an action.

You asked me to help you do something and I connected you.

I think back then it was maybe it was Fox or something, but you did.

It's still like, yeah, it's like,

do it.

You know what I mean?

Like help other people.

I don't know.

I just, I'm happy because you never know how it comes full circle.

Yeah.

Like the fact that we're working together, you don't know, one day you could be my boss.

Like you just never know.

Yeah, i don't know i think it's just important so i was happy you asked and i was like oh do not i never let down people when i say i'm gonna do something i follow through and do it and especially young people to me i think that's so important so i was so happy to help and look at you you just

you did all kind of stuff warriors science i'm like wait that's that girl no i'm just kidding no facts that's how it be and you know actually think taking me down memory lane like it means a lot too because i think people see you with you know you mentor a lot of the biggest star up and coming stars But like at the time, I was a nice starter coming out of Stanford University, but you know, I wasn't NECA Aguma Kay.

I wasn't Jane Appell.

But like, it wasn't about like what your status was.

It was like, yo, there's a young person that wants help and you absolutely did that.

And you did connect me with somebody at Fox.

I remember that.

So

now I just, just giving you flowers because actually,

you know, You wear so many hats.

In addition to being a beautiful human being, I see you in commercials.

The fans are constantly calling on you to step up into something.

They want you to be the commissioner.

They want you to be a coach.

But one of your most recent roles that you're crushing is that of an elite podcaster.

So how has it been hosting between the lines and being in this world with us as a podcaster?

You know, honestly,

Here's the deal.

This is my real honest answer.

I know that my spiritual gift is my ability to speak.

But I oftentimes am really a homebody and I don't necessarily need attention or to be in front of the camera just talking about anything.

So I feel like whenever I do a podcast or speak on anything, it really comes from the heart and I really try to give my honest answer.

And I'm a truth teller.

So if it's things that I feel is not going to benefit us, us as a whole, WNBA or me individually or whatever it is that I'm talking about, I don't really participate in it.

I'm not a person who gives out.

I'm not, I don't don't believe in negative energy and giving out negative energy i don't read negative stuff i just keep it moving if i don't like it i keep it moving like that's the kind of person i am so i feel like podcasts sometimes i get a little overwhelmed with them because everybody has one and they're everywhere

and i don't like clickbait like i don't like to just talk about something just to be like oh i want people to see this so mention somebody's name and all like that's not me so i do feel like being a part of the podcast world we have a major responsibility because we're a part of the media, essentially.

We have a voice and a platform and I think we have to use that responsibly.

So for me,

I reluctantly am like, yeah, I do have a podcast and I really try to be socially responsible with that.

But I'm also very hesitant.

I do not do everybody's podcasts for sure.

Well, first of all, I'm honored.

Thank you for pulling up on our show.

And also, I've had the chance to be on your show.

That's meant a lot.

You're a real one.

I've actually really enjoyed getting to hear the way you see the game.

And

you do that at such a high level.

And that's probably why you're such a great mentor to a lot of these up-and-coming hoopers.

You know, and that's another hat you wear, that of mentor.

One of your girls was doing it big last night at the time of taping.

Angel Reese walked the Victoria Secret one way last night, the first ever WNBA player to do so.

And actually, I love this clip that came out this is her right after walking the runway look how happy she is yes she's celebrating

oh my gosh so what did you think what did you think seeing her on that stage Honestly, Ross, again, I always describe stuff like I feel like a proud mom, but I'm really proud of Angel because, you know, I modeled.

I had a modeling contract.

Modeling is not as easy as it looked.

I mean, people think you just put on some clothes and walk, but it's, you have nerves.

You have to have confidence.

You have to have, you know, where you connect with the crowd and the audience.

And I thought she checked all the boxes.

This is your best body.

When you are a professional athlete and you're in your 20s, that is your best body, baby.

So I thought it was amazing.

I thought she had, she looked beautiful.

I thought she had the confidence that she needed.

And it's her first time.

Like people, I don't even read all of these comments.

I just sent her a personal message and I was very, I'm very proud of her.

I'm happy that she's the first WNBA player to do it because that's going to open doors hopefully for more.

I mean, we have so many beautiful women in our league that could possibly do something like that.

So I feel like every time we, we as a whole, get endorsement deals and get opportunities, you're slightly just continually to bust down doors and open it up for that next generation or even one of your colleagues.

So very happy, proud.

You know, I can't wait to hear the details, of course, but that's for another day.

But I love you for her.

I really do.

Yeah, me too.

You know, and just like Angel, it's not like she just came in there and was like, oh, I'm going to just go and do it.

Like she worked at it.

Honestly, is it just me?

Is it just my algorithm?

I don't think so.

I think for a lot of the larger culture, the reason why we talked about the Victoria Secret show today was because of Angel Reese.

And I don't just think,

yeah,

like, like, isn't it crazy that a WNBA player,

our WNBA players, not just Angel, are like the reasons why people are talking about brands and moments and events.

You know, that's a shift.

I feel I'm proud.

Listen, and I always say this, that

the things that I try to do personally to check off these boxes,

to be the first WNBA player to sign a modeling contract that's signed with Wilhelmina.

It's, it's a place and a space where we really belong and we just haven't had the opportunities as much.

And so I always look at it as an opportunity to, one, make space, create space, representation matters.

But guess what?

She just inspired a whole bunch of other little girls that are probably dribbling right now, you know, and thinking about, oh, I want to play basketball, but I also want to be a model.

I want to be in the Victoria City.

You know, it just continues to broaden the horizon, I think, for little girls to be able to dream to be like Angel Reese.

why not yeah i love it i love it and and that young ladies can dream that they can be many things that you don't just have to be put in one box and so actually on our last show of good follow i was here with angel mccotri who hosts with us and we were just talking about like at this moment there's no player in the w nba that has transcended the sport and is impacting culture like Angel Reese.

And while we were debating, like, okay, so now we were like, there's, there's really no one who's doing it like Angel.

But in the past, the name that we thought of was you.

Do you like that comparison?

And why do you think Angel has broken through like this and connected and resonated like this?

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I love it.

I feel like in each era, we do the best we can do whether i was modeling broadcasting public speaking acting you know i did sitcoms i did movies all of those things is because we're not just one thing and again you have to be what you're comfortable with everybody didn't have all of these talents right but everybody didn't have the personality everybody's not as articulate everybody didn't have the the will to take criticism when you are in these spaces like who do you think you are and i remember people and players like where is she going and why is she always dressing what are you you know like why but it's like i'm my authentic self and i feel like i say angels like she's 10 point on me like like you just come into this future with social media uh timing is everything

her personality her beauty her her attitude her confidence all of those things same thing line up where it's like okay but now we have, you know, businesses and companies who want a piece of the pie because the numbers are off the chart.

Our audience has exploded.

You know, the women's basketball is the number one growing sport in the world right now in terms of just the numbers and where we've come from and where we've gone to.

And when you look at that, the numbers make sense, right?

Because at the end of the day, it was always about money.

If we're not making money and bringing money in, how can you expect people to invest in it?

So it took time.

So I love everything that Angel gets to accomplish.

But we also can't forget about Caitlin because I feel like Caitlin is another one of those.

She may not have the same type of endorsements that Angel has, but she's a game changer.

Their Caitlin effect was real.

And I feel like the two of them with their conflict in that right moment.

has been an explosion of women's basketball.

And you can't say one really without the other because they were synonymous in terms creating this growth for women's basketball.

I think that's a good point, actually, because I do think, you know, in my circles, the way that Angel is hitting the culture, like it immediately hits my timeline, my algorithm.

But, you know.

For me, I think no one has impacted eyeballs on the WNBA like Caitlin Clark.

That's like a given, right?

Hello.

Like she's changed.

She changed.

The Caitlin and Clark effect is real.

But I'm just not sure she,

and I'm not even sure that's really important to her their their motion is different like I'm not even sure that you know for Caitlin's success board or her bullinghood board it's about you know being in all these different

silos instead maybe it's about building out all the different brands and businesses around her hoops and and you know you know just the way she navigates the world so I think I think their lanes are different I don't think that it's necessarily different I think that I think Caitlin is authentic to Caitlin Caitlin is doing golfing.

Like that's authentic to who she is.

And she's not trying to do something that she's not.

And I love that because I think she's an amazing golf player, a golfer.

And now she's going to have a chance to do like some kind of like pro-am tour thing.

So I think that she does what's authentic to her.

And Angel's doing what she feels she wants to do.

These are all of these different platforms that she's like, oh, I can do that.

Oh, and I can do that.

And I have a desire to want to do these things.

And I love that for both of them, actually.

Yeah, absolutely.

I agree with that.

Um, you know, doing what is authentic to self and that

being uber visible, successful, and relatable could end up looking different for both of them.

So, yeah, yeah, I'm on be on the same page with that.

Um, one more question about Angel before I move us along is that you've also, like, just basketball-wise, you worked with her at Unrivaled before heading into the second season for her.

So, just like evaluating her second year in the W NBA, like what would you like to see Angel work on for like year three in the W?

Well, I thought Angel won.

I think a lot of people didn't know, or maybe some people know that, but she battled through a lot of injury this particular season, especially with her back, a little bit with her hand.

I think she even had a surgery or something.

Like, so just

all that she's been through and to be able to still lead the league in rebounding, I thought is outstanding.

I thought she should have been, I don't know, maybe second team defenses.

Like, I feel like she kind of got left off of some of those little lists of accomplishments.

You want to go by the team record, and then Paige wins, you know, an award also.

So, it's kind of one of those things where I thought, I mean, to lead the league and rebound, and people don't understand how hard that is.

And to, you know, have more double-doubles and all of those types of categories, that's a lot of work to not get recognized.

But that's just, again, my personal opinion.

But I think overall, if, and I did talk to Angel about having some more time with her in the gym, working on more offense.

I think just being stronger offensively and being able to finish and score more would really help her game.

But I thought overall she's continuing to grow.

When I watch her play, she plays so hard.

She gives everything on both ends of the floor.

I think that her basketball IQ is very high and any team would love her effort.

So I don't know that she necessarily had the veteran leadership that she should have had coming into the WNBA.

I wish that for her because you think about the top teams like

a Minnesota and you think about Nafisa Collier having someone like Big Sill, you know, Big Seal.

You know what I mean?

Like to have a veteran that just like, hey, this is what we do.

This is how we work.

She didn't have that and she still hasn't had that.

And that's the part where I feel like, wow, that your introduction to this league really hasn't been what most rookies have.

And that is an opportunity to be a rookie and have a veteran that leads you and even if that veteran's not necessarily leading and scoring and all of that but just how to be a pro how you carry yourself things that you respond to things you don't respond to so I think in some ways I wish she would have had more of that veteran leadership on the team day in and day out and I hope for the future that she I don't know what's going to happen with Chicago, but if she ends up somewhere else, that she can end up in a place where a team can really appreciate what she brings to the table because she's a baller.

and a baller and a dog and all of those things that you describe as a player to me i'll take that over a person who you know they may be a good player but they don't have that heart and fight see angel has that heart and fight that you need in order to be successful and win and so i know that the top teams they they they know that you see that when you watch her play Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's absolutely evident in just how she, you know, attacks the glass and comes at it, you know, as a professional each game.

The whole story of the season is the turnaround of the aces to the championship.

Like, ah, gosh, who would have seen that coming in June?

Well, the Aces did, actually.

Those players would tell you, y'all counted us out, but we didn't.

But I just want to start where it's founded around where

the foundation and center of it all is.

And that's in Asia Wilson.

Let's take a look at Asia Wilson's resume now after winning this championship with the Aces.

And we actually ran out of space.

Asia Wilson is now the four-time WNBA MVP.

We can't even read them all.

She's the defensive player of the year.

She's now won three championships in four years.

Mind you, Asia only been in the league eight years.

So she's like in half her years, she's been a champion and an MVP.

Not to mention not only all her WNBA success, but don't forget her collegiate success.

She was a champion there.

Her international success, she's a two-time Olympic gold medalist.

And I would be remiss if I didn't have someone like you who was already in the GOAT conversation to ask you, like, how should Asia

now start being discussed in the GOAT conversation.

And Lisa, dare I say, is she already there?

well here's my thing i i never really talked about this whole goat thing and i know that

it's tough because there's different errors like cheryl miller was amazing and she may be somebody's goat right um because she did so much great things in women's basketball and getting us to the platform where we were before the wnba ever began

Then you have, I guess you have the WNBA, you know, and you have Cheryl, you have myself, you have Cynthia Cooper, all different positions, amazing players, Lauren Jackson, amazing players.

Then you have Diana Terrazi, Sue Bird, come,

amazing players.

Then you have Maya Moore come in, an amazing player.

And I just feel like it's so tough.

And then you have Asia, and I feel like Asia is like taking home everything.

I feel like Asia don't have the competition, to be really honest.

I, the competition,

I don't know.

I just feel like when you look at centers and forwards across the board in the league, that position is starting to go away

at a fast rate.

Even it already happened in the NBA where there's not like a lot of true centers and forwards.

And so I just feel like her dominance is like when you take a person and you go, in any era, Asia would be amazing.

In any era, that's how you get to goat status, right?

But I feel like in any era, Cynthia Cooper would have been amazing.

Sheryl Miller would have been amazing.

I would be amazing.

Like we would still have the level of success that we've had even now in this era.

So to me, there's a lot of women who are really the cream of the crop at the top.

And it would be disrespectful to me to try and say one person who is accomplishing more awards in this time period is necessarily better than a person who accomplished it.

You know, it's almost like when you say Michael Jordan played when it was more physical, right?

But LeBron plays now.

LeBron is great.

But Michael Jordan's Michael Jordan, like the errors are different.

So I think it's just tough.

I don't know.

I feel like being a part of that conversation, it gets really tough for me.

But I love and respect Asia Wilson.

I feel like when, and I know I say like a lot of players, like, oh, I see this in them and I see this in me and them.

But I'm like, Asia, I see our games probably the most similar of any player that I've ever seen.

And the accuracy, the shot blocking, the defense, the energy, being able to guard people inside and out.

I see that.

So it's not like I don't recognize how amazing she is because I see it.

I love it.

And I think when you look at what happened this particular season for the aces,

now you're talking about a dynasty because

they're never out of it.

To have that record by August 2nd, 14 and 14 or something.

At 500, right?

And then go on the run that they did and win the championship the way that they did with Asia leading the way, never disappearing.

I mean, even the game where we said, oh, she didn't play that well.

I think she had like 16 and 10 or something.

Like it was crazy.

So I love the dominance that we're seeing from Asia Wilson.

And I just hope that she gets her flowers off the courts because this is off the court.

Cause this is what I'm always talking about.

The endorsement deals and the things should flow to some of the best players in the world.

And this is where we have to continue to push for things like that because it should show off the court as well because she's the best player in the world.

Yes.

Do you feel that her marketing and, you know, the brands and all of that is matching how dominant and talented she is, Lisa?

I think Nike really stepped up to the plate.

It took a while and they were late, but they did.

They stepped up and I think that matches.

And I don't know what other brands she has, which

Gatorade, Nike are things that I know.

I know because there's commercials, right?

So it's like maybe there's other deals and hopefully other places will start to see Asia more.

But, you know, I don't know personally what she, I personally don't know what she, you know, what all she has, but she should have more.

She's the best player in the world, you know?

You know, another side of Asia Wilson's dominance.

After the finals, she gets her finals MVP award and trophy.

The whole presentation is awesome.

And, you know.

Holly Rowe is up there.

She announces the person who's going to hand the trophy and it's Kathy Engelbert, the commissioner.

And when she announces her she is handedly loudly booed and for those in the arena they said they couldn't even hear her WMBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert

thank you Holly

well we're here today to celebrate a champion

thank you to all the fans Phoenix had a great run to get here

and I just want to congratulate the aces on a performance 2025 WNBA champion

for me it's the players faces

Like recognizing the player's family.

She did well.

She did well, though.

She kept her cool.

She finished what she had to say.

And

she was strong in that moment because that was serious.

And that was loud.

I don't even think I realized it was that loud.

I do feel bad for Kathy because nobody wants to experience not being a well-liked commissioner of any league.

The other flip side to it was in response to the fans fans really supporting the players it's kind of cool because

we know that the fans are listening and they're paying attention and they see that these rafters are full all the way to the top that there's sellouts and they want for the players to reap the benefits also so you think about the CBA and you think about

I think one of the most important things is profit sharing.

I think that's going to be important because fans want to know that these players are being paid also and that they're sharing in the success of all of the hard work that everybody did.

You know, nobody wants negative stuff, whether it's in real life or on social media.

But I wasn't mad at the fans because I felt like that was great support for the players.

You know, Lisa, it is, we ran out of time.

It's over, but I really appreciate having you on and listening to you.

You have so much great insight.

You're the best.

And I just, you're, you're so warm to everyone.

So I just appreciate you.

Thank you.

Thanks, Roswell.

I'll be seeing you soon.

Did you get done with your, are we, we've seen you at Unrivaled?

Yes, I'll, I'll be down in Miami for sure.

So I will see you there.

All right.

All right.

Well, good.

I'm sure I'll see you before then.

Oxtail date.

We'll do an oxtail date.

Say less.

We just can't do it on game day.