Hour 1: The Hotel Expert (feat. Tim Kurkjian)

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This is the Dan Labatar Show with the Stu Gats Podcast.

Look who's there, everybody.

Look who's there.

Look at him.

He is in the middle of peak October.

He is in the middle of baseball.

This is his happiest time.

And

he got a double play for the ages the other day.

The thing that makes Tim more excited than anything in the world is when he goes to the ballpark and sees something that no one's ever seen before, because that can happen in baseball.

He's everyone's favorite.

He's the Hall of Fame baseball writer, Tim Kirchhin, analyst, reporter for baseball tonight, and the host of a great great podcast with his son Jeff.

Is this a great game or what?

It is really wonderful to watch him do this and see this do him, see him do this with his son.

And he's also a hotel expert because he knows you get the two beds so you can sleep in one and have the storage on the other bed, right, Tim?

You request two beds at a hotel.

I do.

And being as small as I am, I don't need a king-size bed.

Anything is fine.

So the two beds works better for me because just I put my suitcase on there if I need to.

So yes, I'm good in hotels.

What other veteran travel tips do you have for us as someone who has, you know, been all over the globe following baseball players?

Well, I get in a lot of trouble for this, Dan, but I need a printed boarding pass to get on the airplane.

And Eduardo Perez and Carl Ravich, who I travel with, that they...

Eddie doesn't even need a boarding pass.

He just gets on the airplane and they let him, whether he has a pass or not, I, being 68 years old have to have a printed boarding pass in order to get on the plane.

Otherwise, I would be that poor doddering little old man who can't find the code or whatever that thing is called on my phone.

I just want a piece of paper in my pocket so I can hand it to the gate agent so I can get on the plane.

That's my number one rule when it comes to traveling.

Take a printed boarding pass.

What happens if they change the gate after you get through security?

Well, I still have a printed boarding pass.

I just have to look and find out where the gate

gets changed all the time.

You go to the big boards to see, or do you get the mobile notifications?

No, I go to the boards.

I'd much rather talk to a person, look at a board, print a boarding pass in my pocket.

That's just the way it worked for me.

I don't put anybody else through this.

I don't make people go to the airport four hours before my flight like I do.

I don't ever, it's just me that is part of all this ridiculous anxiety that I have at the airport, even though I've been traveling for 45 years.

I just can't afford to be running through an airport at my age.

I'm more interested in Eduardo Perez just having free reign in airports and airplanes.

Like, does he have to go in the cockpit mid-flight?

He's unbelievable.

You know what he did in New York?

He took a helicopter from JFK into downtown Manhattan.

Good move.

He checked it out.

It was going to be an hour and a half Uber ride for hundred and twenty dollars instead he paid two hundred and sixty dollars and took a seven minute helicopter ride into manhattan i could seven get a helicopter

he took a helicopter and if you think that makes him some pretentious diva because that's what he does he's the opposite of that because the next day he went and took his clothing to a laundromat in manhattan so one day he takes a helicopter into the city and the next day he walks around with his suitcase looking for a laundromat and then with for $7.50

does his laundry the next day.

If you travel with Eduardo Perez, nothing bad can possibly happen.

When we were in New York, This was so bad.

I almost got on the wrong subway train going to Yankee Stadium.

And if I had, I would have been lost forever.

I would have missed the game.

I would have been some sad little old man in Schenectady because I would have never found my way back.

Eduardo and Ravi saved me.

Otherwise, I would have gotten on the wrong subway train.

And instead of going to the Bronx, I would have gone, you know, to Long Island or something.

Tim, I love you, okay?

But when I ask you for a tip, a veteran tip of travel after 45 years of travel, you can't say print your boarding pass.

Like you're not giving anybody any wisdom with that.

Like you've got 45 years of experience traveling.

How is that the best travel tip you can give people when Chris is saluting you on, yes, two beds, get two beds so you can just throw your junk on one of them.

Dan, this is the printed boarding pass.

We talked about this on our podcast the other day, and at least a dozen people responded to me saying, I have to have a printed boarding pass also.

Dan, I don't need anything to travel.

I'm really simple.

I don't check into a hotel and say, hey, I need this.

Hey, I need that.

I have no tips.

My only tip is get to the airport early so you don't miss the flight.

And I'm a member of the Admirals Club for American Airlines.

That's my tip.

You have to have a place to go and get something to eat, get something to drink, someplace to relax, someplace to go work, especially when you get to the airport as early as I do.

Does Max Monk Muncie, does Max Muncie look like the guy who comes out of the restroom and says,

I wouldn't go in there if I were you?

Dan, do you know that Max Muncie, there are two Max Muncies playing in the major leagues right now?

They have the same name.

They are not related.

Max Muncie is not exactly the most popular name in the world.

And there are two guys in the major leagues named Max Muncie, the one for the Dodgers and a rookie

for the A's.

and they both get this share of the same birthday.

I mean,

what are the chances of that happening?

I say 0%.

Well, clearly not 0%.

What is the stat that you would look to from the regular season for you that you would say is your favorite stat of this season?

And I want to ask you the follow-up question of you've called this the most unpredictable season you've covered in 45 years.

How is that possible?

Well,

I believe it is, Dan, for this reason.

Just when you, this season, I counted the Blue Jays out multiple times and then they won the division.

I counted the Mariners out multiple times and then they won their division.

I, every team that made the playoffs in the American League this year, at one point, at least privately, I said they're not going to make the playoffs.

And then six of them did.

The lesson that we learned from 2025 is just when you think you understand the game, you realize that you don't because a team you look at them and say this team stinks and then they win eight games in a row and then you say this team is really good and then they lose seven games in a row that's the unpredictable nature that i'm talking about is i i like to think i understand what i'm watching but i i've been wrong we've all been wrong so many times this year it has been ridiculous with the mets with the yankees with just about every team you look at and say i missed on them.

That's why this has been such an interesting season.

Does Hunter Pence look like the pirate forced to walk the plank after a failed mutiny against his captain, Jeff Samarja?

What is your favorite stat from the regular season?

Do you have a favorite?

I know you've got so many of them in the bank, it's hard to ask you for just one.

All right, so I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you two, okay?

Shohei Otani is going to win the the MVP again this year.

He struck out 187 times.

So he's going to have the second most strikeouts ever in an MVP season with 187.

And he is the record holder at 189.

So the two greatest strikeout seasons during an MVP year are both held by Shohei Otani, who is the best player in the National League.

He's going to win the unanimous MVP again this year.

He's the most remarkable player anyone has ever seen, and yet he strikes out all the time, proving again that the stuff that we see in the big leagues right now is unbelievably good.

I mean,

these guys have no shot against the pitching that we see today unless a guy misses location.

So that's one stat, and it's just showing you what the strikeout rate is like.

The other thing is we hit home runs at an outrageous rate.

We have 19 three homer games, individual three homer games this year.

19.

And it's not even the record.

The record is 21.

Three homer seasons.

Keep in mind that Hank Aaron had one three homer season.

Game.

Three homer games.

Three homer game.

One three homer game in his career.

Gary Sheffield, David Ortiz, Rafael Palmaro had no three individual three homer games in their career.

And 19

different guys had a three homer game.

And three

those had a four-homer game this year.

The point is, this is what we play today.

You hit the ball out of the ballpark or you strike out, and there's not much in between.

Now, we're getting a little closer to the game we used to play 40 years ago, where the ball's in play more, guys are stealing bases, the brewers, and the blue jays run all over the place and make somebody stop them.

That's a good sign, but we're still in an era where the strikeout rate is ridiculous.

We will have more 100 strikeout guys this year

than from 1900 to 1963 combined.

That's what we look at these days.

And everyone seems to be okay with everybody striking out 100 times and everybody just trying to hit home runs.

But I would like to see us go back to a different game, the game that we played 40 years ago.

Does Freddie Freeman look like the neighbor who always waves first and means it?

listen speaking

speaking of looks like the you got it you got to look this up dan ernie clement is an infielder for the blue jays and a really good one okay he's he made the gold glove finalists as a third baseman and as a utility player so there's a chance he could win the gold glove at third base and win the gold glove as a utility player which i find ridiculous but ernie clement looks exactly like Aaron Boone, a younger Aaron Boone, who is the manager of the Yankees.

And we got a text the other day from Brett Boone, Aaron's brother, watching the game on TV while we're doing it on the radio.

And he said, he looks exactly like my brother.

So then we called up the picture of Ray Boone, who is, of course, Aaron's grandfather, who played in the major leagues.

He looks exactly like Aaron.

Therefore, he looks exactly like Ernie Clement.

So there, there, the Blue Jays, knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs, and their second baseman slash third baseman looks exactly like the manager of the Yankees.

And get this, get this.

I'm sorry to belabor this, but

Ernie Clement is wearing a baseball glove in the game that he bought on eBay several months ago.

He bought a glove on eBay, and now it is his game glove in the major league.

He had like 10 hits in the last series, didn't he?

He had nine hits in the Yankee series.

Nine.

He had 12 hits now in the postseason.

He's a good major league player, and he's a great defender at every position.

And he bought a glove on eBay and now he has to wear a batting glove underneath his glove because as he explained to me, There's no padding in this glove because it's so old, but it fits him perfectly.

He bought a glove on eBay, and now he uses it as a potential gold glove infielder.

Only in baseball could this happen.

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I thought that we were past the lightning.

I thought that we were better than the Lightning and we didn't give the Lightning any mind.

This is loser mentality.

Last year's shirt was World War III.

Yeah.

Our group chat has a good feeling about this one.

The lightning aren't shit to me.

I'm just going to come right out and tell you right now.

We have surpassed the lightning.

They're not a formidable foe.

They're a joke.

Stugats.

I don't take them seriously at all.

Strike me by lightning.

I don't care.

Nothing's going to happen to me.

Lightning are soft.

I'm not giving them any mind.

I'm not paying attention to them this series.

On to the next round.

This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.

Tim, what's realistic best case scenario for Scherzer tonight?

That's a good question.

He had a 5.2 ERA during the regular season.

And in his last five postseason starts, he has a 7.71 ERA.

What he does have going for him is he's Max Scherzer and he is a complete lunatic.

And that is a compliment.

He's Mad Max and he's he's one of the great competitors we've ever seen.

In fact, I was talking to Chris Bassett of the Blue Jays the other day.

Chris Bassett is a pitcher and was a really good high school football player and a great high school basketball player.

So he's a new teammate this year with Max Scherzer, and Scherzer finds out that Chris Bassett loves basketball and is really good.

So Max typically, being Max, goes to Chris Bassett and said, I want to play one-on-one against you.

And he says, and we're playing full court one-on-one.

That's who Max Scherzer is.

We had Ryan Zimmerman on our podcast last year, the greatest Washington national ever.

And he said that he used to play pickup basketball with Max.

And this is how Max would do it.

Zimmerman said, we had to play by the Max rules.

And I said, well, what exactly does that mean?

Even though I can figure it out myself.

So after like five buckets of the pickup game, you have to shoot free throws because you never know how good a free throw shooter you are until you shoot them when you are fatigued and then when the pickup game is over at first got first team to 12 then you have to shoot free throws again because now you're really fatigued after a game that's how max scherzer does and everything in his life and it's one reason why i think he's got a chance to be really good tonight but the numbers suggest he might struggle tonight and by the way he is this will be the sixth different franchise for which he has started a postseason game.

That will be the most of any pitcher in Major League history.

David Wells started a game for five different franchises.

Tonight, Mac Scherzer will make it six.

Put it on the poll, please, Juju.

Does Max Scherzer look as crazy as his eyes look at Lebetard show?

Also, Tim, I want to ask you a handful of questions here.

Does Jalen Brunson look like the valet driver who lost your keys?

Does Brent Venables

look like the small-town sheriff in a movie that ends up being corrupt after you spent the whole movie telling your wife he's obviously corrupt?

Does Michael Smith look like the high school teacher who motivates his students by sitting in a chair backwards?

Is that Michael Smith, the media guy?

Yes, that's right.

Yes, he does look like that.

Yes, that's right.

He's a substitute teacher.

It's an inner city school, and he's trying to make everyone more comfortable.

He's trying to get them fired up.

That's right.

What type of school?

Does Adam Silver?

Adam Silver looks like the lone French fry in a bag of onion rings.

You didn't let me finish.

Does Adam Silver.

He's the commissioner of the NBA.

You need to leave him alone.

Does Adam Silver.

Sorry.

Does Adam Silver look like the last lonely lollipop in the jar at the doctor's office?

What are the

Adam Silver looks like a three wood?

Tim, I want you to put a couple of things in context for me because I couldn't believe the stat the other day.

I'm sure it's now common in baseball circles, but it was new to me.

Big Dumper having his first passed ball in

a postseason game when he didn't have one in a regular season game makes no sense to me.

I don't have any earthly idea how possible that is.

So explain to me with the context of baseball that you have better than almost anybody.

I know you find that stat stunning.

That makes no sense with the way pitchers are throwing today.

Stunning.

Absolutely stunning.

So he is the first catcher since Johnny Bench, the greatest catcher of all time.

In 1975, Johnny Bench caught 1,002 innings and did not have a passed ball.

So the Big Dumper is the first catcher since Johnny Bench in 75 to catch at least 120 games and not have a passed ball.

Now, interestingly, in the series against the Tigers, Dylan Dingler, the catcher for Detroit, had caught 118 games this year without a pass ball.

So two catchers in the same postseason series had caught at least 118 games this year.

and not had a pass ball.

And then Cal Raleigh had a pass ball in the

And Dan, your point is well made.

With the violent stuff that we see today,

I don't know how there aren't pass balls like three per game because guys are throwing so hard.

No, and that, no, and the way that team pitches, like he's got to be the best defensive catcher there's ever been, Tim.

I know that's probably blasphemy with Johnny Bench to you, but how can it not be given what that staff stuff is?

Right.

The stuff on that staff is so ungodly good.

Way do you see Luis Castillo throw tonight?

I mean, nobody can hit him.

He was so good in a playoff game three years ago that Manny Acta,

who is a coach for the Mariners, told me after the game, after Castillo shoved for seven innings against the Blue Jays, he said, we have to move the mound back.

two feet because it's not fair to the hitters.

That's the kind of stuff Luis Castillo has.

And for Cal Raleigh to catch him and all of that staff without a passball is just remarkable to me.

Now, he's an elite defensive catcher, even though he didn't finish in the top three for the gold glove finalist this year in the American League, which I was astonished by.

Johnny Bench is the greatest defensive catcher of all.

He's the greatest catcher ever.

He's the greatest defensive catcher ever.

But Cal Raleigh is really good.

And Dan, not to get too inside baseball here, but we've changed the way that catchers are supposed to catch.

They're catching on one leg leg now instead of being on two.

And blocking a ball and receiving a ball is harder, I believe, than it's ever been.

And he still didn't have a pass ball this year in a season in which he hit 60 home runs.

It's stunning.

I was saying earlier this week, and I don't want to be prisoner of the moment about this, but I'm interested in your historical context on this.

I believe that the Dodgers have the best roster ever assembled, and I believe the Dodgers have the only baseball team I've ever seen uniquely built for the playoffs because of the number of ways that they can beat you and because Glass now is their fourth ace and they can get an ace performance like they've gotten against a really good Brewers team from any of their starters.

Do I have anything wrong there?

I don't think you do.

Now,

the guy I spoke to is a little bit biased because he's a member of the Dodgers.

But when I called him before I started to do the playoffs this year, I did the Reds and the Dodgers on the radio for ESPN.

When I called this guy and said, tell me about your team, he said, we have the greatest roster in the history of baseball.

That's what he said.

And I'm not sure I believed it at the time, but the more you look at it, the Dodgers roster is ridiculously good, which, you know, you can do that when you spend this kind of money.

Their starting pitching right now is so preposterously overpowering.

I don't know how anybody gets a hit off of them.

Blake Snell just finished two straight starts in which he pitched six innings and allowed one hit or less.

Okay.

No pitcher's ever done that twice in their postseason careers.

He did it in back-to-back starts.

And then Yamamoto, who is incredibly good, came out and threw a complete game.

And,

you know, Tyler Glass now, nobody can hit him when he's right.

And that's just the starting pitching.

The lineup is tremendous.

The only issue is they they have a bullpen problem but they're going to use their excess starters including roki suzaki to to do what they have to do and yes they are built for the postseason they are built to win the world series and it's just incredible they're playing their best baseball right now does dan marino look like the third-place finisher in a david hasselhoff look-alike contest

Does the Big Dumper look like a likable dad who started a YouTube cooking channel sharing easy crock pot recipes you can make at home.

So, Jerry DePoto, the general manager of the Mariners, told me, you know, a couple weeks ago, he said, the reason everybody loves Cal Raleigh is he looks like the guy who comes over to your house to fix your air conditioner or comes over to fix your plumbing.

He looks like the rest of us, but he just happens to be a great baseball player.

But that's one reason that he has become a folk hero in the great Northwest is in some ways he looks like us, but he's different than us.

He's different than everyone.

Dan, no switch hitter had ever hit 20 homers in a season from each side of the plate until he came along.

Of course, no switch hitter had ever hit 55, he hit 60.

No catcher had ever hit 50, he hit 60.

No mariner had ever hit more than Ken Griffey Jr.

He did that.

And he looks like the air conditioner repair man.

Does Mike McDaniel look like the barista who asks if you've ever tried journaling while making your oat milk latte?

The double play the other day in the Dodgers game where you had, and I can't believe I'm saying this particular sentence, a 400-foot grand slam that turned into a ground ball double play.

Yeah, Dan, that play has never happened in the history of baseball.

I'm pretty certain about that.

Now, Jason Stark did all of this research and, you know, project score sheet and all these people got involved.

It's, I just cannot understand how that play could have happened.

It was a 400-foot grounded into double play when the ball essentially never hit the ground.

Now, this is all because Tayaska Hernandez, the runner at third, did not recognize that you have to tag up on that play.

A 12-year-old knows when the ball goes up in the air and you're at third base,

first thing you do is stand on third base until the ball is caught or until it hits the ground.

And as soon as it hits Sal Freelix glove in center field, now you can tag up.

But he went halfway, then he went back to third base.

And then by the time he got home, he was forced at the plate on an out on a ball that was hit 400 feet.

And then, of course, the only person who seemed to understand what was going on was William Contreras, the catcher, who then alertly ran to third base and tagged it because a force play is still in play.

Base is loaded.

A ball is hit that doesn't go over the fence and is not caught.

That means there is a force play at every base.

I've never seen anything like that.

I will never see anything like that again.

I was on a flight from Toronto to Seattle with a bunch.

I was on there with an umpire and a bunch of scouts.

I asked them all, Have you ever seen anything like this?

And all of them said, Never seen anything like it, because it's never happened before.

This is why we go to the game stand because something might happen at a major league game that's never happened or we've never seen before.

And that is the perfect example.

Does Rob Polenka look like a courthouse sketch of Tom Brady?

Does Adam Silver

look like a newly opened chapstick?

It's too bad the Zoom doesn't work on his laugh.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be getting that silence.

Tim, thank you for everything you always help us with.

It's nice seeing you, especially this time of year.

Thank you, Dan.

Thank you, guys.

Again, is this a great game or what?

Is the podcast he does with his son and also at ESPN?

He's an analyst reporter for baseball tonight.

He's a Hall of Fame baseball writer.

He's been at ESPN a ton of time, and he's keeping baseball alive at ESPN.

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Don Lebatard.

Well, Charlie sent, Charlie had this.

Charlie, as far as I know, so just Charlie's title in my mind.

Are you going to say anything?

How familiar were you at the time with Chewbacca?

Like, how your upbringing

had how much Chewbacca in it?

This is the Don Lebatar Show with the guys.

Speaking of ESPN, a story we did not get to earlier this week, and I'm surprised we didn't get to it because it was such a great moment of television.

I don't know how you guys reacted to this, but I imagine that Kirk Herbstreak got mad at Pat McAfee.

You know, he's got a dog.

I imagine that Kirk Herbstreet got mad at Pat McAfee because they're on the set talking about Bill Belichick, and Kirk Herbstreet shows only Sabin and the crew that Bill Belichick is calling on his phone right now.

And what Pat McAfee does is exactly what you have to do, but it's not what I would have wanted him to do only if I were Kirk Herbstreet.

So watch this and tell me what you guys think of it.

It is to understand that he is completely bought into what's happening with this team and with this program.

And him leaving or the idea of him leaving.

Answer that.

I can't answer that.

Answer that.

He has to be watching right now.

That's literally Bill Belichick calling Kirk Herbshit.

He probably has something to say.

Yeah.

He probably does.

You know, every coach needs to have the opportunity to establish his culture and also to recruit.

Nick Saban went straight into, I got to do television here.

You guys could have just played a Saban clip for me.

That's good stuff.

I want to play it again.

They're talking about Bill Belichick.

Bill Belichick calls Herbstreet.

Herbstreet shows his phone to only Sabin and

Pat McAfee.

They're talking about Belichick while Belichick's calling.

Pat McAfee does the good television thing there.

He does something better than

what Kirk Herbstreet was doing, but there's no way Kirk Herbstreet didn't talk talk to him about this afterward.

It is to understand that he is completely bought into what's happening with this team and with this program.

And him leaving or the idea of him leaving.

Answer that.

I can't answer.

Answer that.

He has to be watching right now.

That's literally Bill Belichick calling Kirk Herbstreet.

He probably has something to say.

Yeah.

He probably does.

You know, every coach needs to have the opportunity to establish his culture and also to recruit his kind of player.

Oh, can we play the saving part again?

Like, how does that go if he answers it?

Like, puts him on speaker, like, oh,

I mean, that's why he's calling, right?

Belichick is calling to be put on the air in that spot, which is kind of.

You can't call Herbie in that spot and then be like, what are you doing?

Putting me on air?

Like, you're calling him while the show's going on.

Well, let me ask you guys this question because Diana Russini went on Nick Wright's show yesterday and said of Belichick and UNC, quote, they tell me this is the happiest they've seen Bill in years.

He feels like the students are actually buying into what he's doing.

I mean, I think he's probably the happiest he's been in years because he doesn't care.

I think he's the happiest he's ever been because he's dating a very young woman.

The report from Diana Russini, quote, they tell me this is the happiest they've seen Bill in years.

He feels like the students are actually buying into what he's doing.

Well, how did we go from, and look, I mean, there are bad reports out there all the time, but how did we go from last week where

he's already looking for other jobs and

the school is actively trying to figure out how to get rid of him with a small buyout to now he's so happy and the kids are buying in?

I mean, it could be a spin, but I do think he's happy.

He has to be happy to still be in this relationship.

It has to be well worth it for him, given all the negative publicity,

given the tarnish that it's probably put around his post-coaching career.

Well, he's coaching now, although very little evidence of that.

I think he's very clearly happy for Bill Belichick.

He's not outwardly happy.

Well, let me do this, though, when you say tarnished, because I saw Bill Simmons came to the vigorous defense of the idea that Bill Belichick's legacy will not in any way be damaged by what is happening now.

And I happen to agree with the fact that when history looks back at all of this stuff, we don't remember the punctuations.

But the place that I don't agree with Bill Simmons is that there's simply no circumstance

under which Bill Belichick could have imagined that his present day legacy is so harmed, his present day right now, that he cannot get any of the jobs that he would want right now, that he has zero access to anything that he wants, pros or college, because of what's happened in five weeks, like and probably the weeks before that as well.

So, we can say right now while we're in it, that his legacy won't be impacted down the line, but it's being impacted right now because he cannot, with his legacy, get any job.

Like, there's not a job right now that he can get better than the one he has.

I don't think the doors close on him in the NFL.

There's always going to be an owner that is going to be drawn to all the success that he had.

He's going to be given opportunities to interview for jobs if he wants

because of who he is.

Yeah, but Mike, given the opportunity to interview for jobs is not something Belichick thought that would be the high point of whatever he was doing five years ago.

Why do you believe that?

You know how Brian Billick was like, I'm here.

I still want to coach.

I have a Super Bowl and no one thinks of me.

I don't think that that's going to happen to Bill Belichick, despite the circus around him.

And I do think that you look at these NFL franchises and owner's going to think that the smart thing to do is go to a proven winner.

I mean, I told you, he had an opportunity, if he really wanted the Atlanta job, to go for it.

Like, he had it.

There were things about Atlanta that he didn't want to do in Atlanta.

Yeah, but it's worse now than it was when he was interviewing for those jobs.

I agree.

Well, Job Suck, am I not remembering him interviewing for more than the Falcons?

I happen to know that when the Cowboys thing became available, he stopped talking to staffers over there.

I don't doubt that that sign.

Oh, my God, he knows.

He happens to know.

Come, everyone.

Come and listen.

He happens to know.

Well informed.

He's got his eyes on what's happening with the New York Giants, too.

People that have been around North Carolina.

You think he would follow Parcells?

Like, I don't know that.

I mean, follow Parcels, but like Parcells did what he did there.

I don't know, man.

He often tells people, you know, I'm just so many wins away from the NFL all-time wins record.

It's important to him.

And I think he'll try to make it happen.

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