GOOD FOLLOW - Napheesa and Cathy are Playing Chess, Aces Lead 2-0 In WNBA Finals & More!

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Hey, what's up, everybody?

Welcome to Good Follow Show presented by DraftKings.

I am Ross Golden Boy, and that is five-time WNBA all-star, Angel McCauder.

Angel, what's up, girl?

What's up, girl?

I'm here in New York promoting my new film, Bygones.

Yeah, you got a premiere tonight, right?

Got a premiere tonight.

It drops October 10th, so you guys can watch on Amazon Prime,

Hugh TV Network, Apple,

all the things.

So hope you guys like it.

Oh my gosh, Angel, you are doing a bit of everything.

You are a true Renaissance woman.

You got movies, you got buckets.

You know, it's the WNBA Finals right now, and we've seen some very explosive performances in these WNBA finals.

People getting big buckets, putting up big numbers, scoring performances.

But before we start our show, I do want to point out, Angel, nobody has scored the ball in the WNBA finals like you have.

Okay.

Oh my gosh.

Angel, you have scored the most points in WNBA finals history with 38 points.

And your name kept coming up in the broadcast of game two because Asia was Asia was going off for 20 at the half.

Then there was...

21 points and a quarter for Jackie Young.

And it was like, can she break Angel McCautri's record?

Angel, I mean, just what was it like for you to just kind of be reminded of the buckets that you used to get a near 40 piece in the wnba finals yeah it's a great reminder of the work you put in because like you said i i forgot about all this stuff just like fans are like oh we forgot i forgot too so i'm like i did that it's it's a it's a beautiful shock And so it's good to see that these young girls are breaking those records, but it's so much fun to see your name involved in that.

And, you know, I did something right.

So

you absolutely did.

And, you know, I know there's a lot of new fandom, fandom, new people to basketball.

If they don't know Angel McCotrie, they better.

And it's a good reminder because

you're really a legend of the game and a future Hall of Famer.

So it was, it was cool.

And you're our girl.

We're so proud of you.

Good follow show.

Our girl, Angel McCotry.

WNBA legend.

But look,

we got a lot to talk about today in the show.

Here's the menu.

Gosh, the WNBA never fails to entertain.

The Kathy, there's new information about the Kathy Engelbert, Nafisa Collier situation.

Kathy and Phi and the CBA.

Oh my.

And then

the WNBA finals head to Phoenix as the Mercury try to bounce back against the Aces.

So we'll be looking at the WNBA finals.

And you guys can catch us Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Please like, comment, and subscribe.

Thank you for all you do and following our show.

Roz, let's get in it.

This is exciting.

Okay, guys, we are going to get to all of the new information out around Nafisa Collier, Kathy Engelbert, and the CBA.

But first, we've got to talk about the WNBA Finals.

That is taking center stage and certainly on our show.

So the Aces right now, at the time of taping, are up 2-0 after winning both of their games at home.

It was the Aces bench and the Aces Big Three that are completely outplaying the Mercury's bench and the Mercury's big three.

And it's also clear that the Aces championship experience is paying off.

So Angel, if I could scene set for you, game one, the Mercury led by as much as nine points.

They had some costly mistakes, emotional, you know, moments, bad techs.

They gave up 20 points on 14 turnovers.

And that was the game that they really could have stolen.

It cost them the chance to do that.

Game two, they

trailed by as much as 22.

The aces were dominant.

So, okay, the series is heading to Phoenix.

They're down 02.

If you are in that Phoenix locker room with you having been a player, Angel.

How do they reframe this right now?

You said it, best, Roz.

It's an emotional weight that's on them.

My message is to AT, Alyssa Thomas, you are letting game one affect game two and affect game three.

You are the emotional weight of the team.

They follow you, right?

Those free throws got to you.

You got to let it go.

This game here at home, you got to win one game at a time.

Do what you got to do.

Meditate.

Pray, read the Bible.

I don't care.

Let go of game one so you can will your team to victory one game at a time.

That is what's affecting the Phoenix Mercury.

It's emotional.

We know what to do.

We know the game plan.

We know how we got to play.

We know we can beat them.

But if you continue this emotional weight on you, you're not going to beat the aces.

Let it go.

Fresh new game.

To me, AT is 0-0.

Let's go.

Yeah.

If she refreshes and resets, they're going to win the next game.

That's it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

I think control of their emotions of the physicality um of of the toughness factor for the phoenix mercury they don't have a lot of control of it they've they've they've seemed out of control in spurts and they've been costly spurts for them um and i think to you know for me i'm looking at it like look

Don't, this is not a time for the aces to have a victory lap yet.

All the aces did is do what they were supposed to do.

They won at home.

You know, they won at home.

Now they got there too.

Now you go home home to Phoenix and you got a chance to win at home.

You tie this series up.

The narrative is different.

The way this whole series feels is different.

And you should take some confidence in the fact that you could have stolen game one, you know?

So I think for the Phoenix Mercury, it's an overall gut check for this team.

Their bench is typically.

the best bench in the WNBA in the regular season.

They're getting thoroughly outplayed by Jewel Lloyd and Dana Evans.

You know, the big three for the aces,

whether it's Jackie Young with 21 points in that third quarter or 32 in a game, or it's a double double from Asia Wilson, 20 at half.

And for me, it's been Chelsea Gray, who I think they really got to find a way to limit her control of the game, not only physically, but emotionally.

She's so emotionally charged, and it's on offense and defense.

You know, she's averaging a near triple double.

She's averaging 10 assists a game.

When the aces are truly cooking, over the course of years now, Chelsea Gray is stirring that pot.

Okay.

And she's getting steals and blocks and assists and she's hitting big buckets and just screaming and pouring out emotion.

So I think it's going to be key to lower her impact.

And I also want to just tap in on what you said about Alyssa Thomas as well.

In that, you know, I think she's struggled so far in the matchup against Asia Wilson.

Asia Wilson's size has been a big factor against her.

And overall, it's been hard for her to defend Asia.

As she's scoring right over her, and offensively, she's taking less shots.

She's got less, you know, assists.

She seems less aggressive on the court.

And for the Mercury, when they're cooking, it's Alyssa Thomas with her fingerprints all over the game.

So to your point, Angel, I think it starts with her.

And Satu Sabley has to lock in that emotional control.

She's made some mistakes.

She's not shooting well.

And I think with the bench battle, they need more from Dewana Bonner and Sammy Whitcomb if she's healthy, Angel.

Absolutely.

You guys, focus, get your emotional maturity together.

Stop worrying about the vacation next week.

You have plenty of time to go to Mexico.

Focus and get the win.

Get a win.

Then we'll go from there.

All right,

Jesus.

I feel you, Angel.

And that will actually take us to game three, which is our DraftKings pick of the week presented by DraftKings.

This week, I have my eye on game three of the WNBA Finals.

With the Mercury's X-Factor being their home crowd, I'm picking them to win this critical game three.

In fact, for the Mercury, I'm saying game three is a must-win.

My players to watch are Dewana Bonner and Dana Evans, as the production or lack of production from the bench has been a huge factor in this series.

This segment is presented by DraftKings.

DraftKings, the crown.

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All right, guys, coming up, there's new information out about the public drama between the WNBA players, the leadership, Kathy, Fee, and the CBA.

Oh my, we'll get to it.

We'll be right back.

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Hey, what's up, y'all?

Welcome back to Good Follow, presented by DraftKings.

She's Angel.

I'm Roz.

And guess what?

There's new information that has come out about this increasingly turbulent relationship between Nafisa Collier and WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert.

In a new ESPN article by Ramona Shelburne and Kendra Andrews, it's a very interesting read.

They do have some new, interesting details.

One part of the article that was interesting.

So according to ESPN, players have been asking for data from the wnba and its leadership and they haven't been given it so it says according to sources on both sides of the cba negotiations under the current cba players don't get additional revenue sharing so it's nine percent for the wnba players as opposed to about 49 to 51 percent in the nba and they don't get that additional revenue sharing until the league has generated a certain level of revenue which it has said it has yet to do after decades of multi-million dollar losses at the franchise and and league level.

So naturally, the players want the league to give them the data that proves that that is the case.

And those requests have not been met, Angel.

So Angel, you're a player.

You've been a player for a long time in the WNBA.

How does this lack of transparency from the WNBA, as reported in the ESPN article, add to distrust?

It continues to add to distrust and it continues to add to what Nafisa Collier is talking about.

What is so hard to release the data, right?

Because people are starting to calculate things.

These girls are not dumb athletes.

They know how to do math.

Some stuff just don't add up.

Whether it adds up or not, these are issues that can be fixed.

Giving girls revenue off their jersey sales or, you know, stop finding girls for a plan overseas.

Like, it's things that can be fixed.

to show that you care about these women and their livelihoods.

Because once again, who has the largest contract in the WBA?

Kathy.

You have the largest contract.

You make the most in the WNBA.

So as a woman, Kathy, I know you said you're human.

So I want you to come to this human side as a woman.

How can you continue to fight for these women?

If we can't put all the pressure on you, maybe you're not making all the decisions, but are you in those boardrooms fighting for what we need?

That's what we need to know too.

Yeah, Angel, to your point, I think.

What players are seeing is that team valuations are going up, you know, ratings are up, brand deals are up, money is being poured into the league, but they're waiting for it to be trickled down to them.

And from what we've gathered is, look, the league

is willing to say, yes, we will raise your salaries, but they're not willing to give a bigger slice of the business.

And so remember, these players are in a labor dispute, not only trying to make a difference for their salaries and well-being, but they're literally kind of laying the pathwork for future generations of WNBA players.

So there's a lot at stake right now.

And with so much at stake, I do want to take us back to revisiting Kathy Engelbert's press conference at the start of the WNBA finals.

This was huge.

We haven't had the chance to really address it on our show yet.

Key takeaways for me of Kathy Engelbert's comments.

So I thought she was strong on officiating.

She seemed to understand that there was a need for addressing the issues with officiating.

She described a plan.

She mentioned committees.

It feels like there will be work done by the WNBA to

make officiating better in the league.

I also thought as a talking point, it was important for Kathy, she was trying to convey a relationship with the players that could be repaired.

She said, I feel confident we could repair any loss of trust.

So she was trying to convey that.

And then two standout moments that obviously have gone viral a little bit out of it is the way that she handled direct questioning about the comments Nafisa Collier made describing their personal conversation.

There were two moments.

The first one right off the bat was with Malika Andrews.

She asked her, is it true that you said players should be on their hands and on their hands and knees thanking their lucky stars for the right steal that I got them?

And let's listen to how Kathy answered that question.

There's a lot of inaccuracy out there through social media and all this reporting.

Well, that's a non-answer, right?

That's certainly not a denial.

Kind of feels like a little bit of,

did she say yes or no did she outright deny anything angel that's we want to know when when you're asked a question people want to want to want the answer yes i said it or no i didn't say it and fee is not the kind of person that makes stuff up where there is smoke there is fire oh so something along you're right so something along those lines were said

So why, what are the inaccuracies and what is accurate?

Then describe that to us.

Right.

And let me take you to the next question much later in the media session so minutes passed and at the towards the end annie costable doubled back and asked uh kathy did you say caitlin should be grateful she makes 16 million off the court without the w platform she would not make that let's listen to how kathy answered that obviously i did not make those comments caitlyn has been a transformational player in this league That's a very, that's a very different answer, my friend.

That's a very different strategy.

Now, that was a denial.

Now, that one thing about kathy she was not trying to allow anybody to say she said that about caitlin that that was big caitlin business that she was not trying to alienate her fan base upset caitlin uh one of their most valuable assets of the wnba she came out and said not only did she say i did not say that she said obviously i did not say that very different language what do you make of that

Well, one thing you don't want to do is upset the Caitlin fan base.

The Caitlin fan base is basically on the same level level as the beehive beyonce's fan base they don't play

and they will come after you so honestly she could have said something

in that way

but hey maybe i didn't say it the way nafisa read it

so no i didn't say that you know what i mean but

it's it's it's this is i don't even know what to say about that like yeah yeah it's

And in her answers, ultimately, and especially in the answer about Caitlin Clark, what she did there was was she now made somebody a liar.

With that answer, somebody is not telling the truth.

And so, you know, Nafisa Collier is listening to this press conference and probably sitting there wondering, is she going to do it?

Is she going to, is she going to deny it?

Is she going to lie?

Now, we don't, again, we were not privy to the conversation.

We said on our last show, Kathy has the opportunity to respond and negate what was said in a private conversation.

So now it's up to public opinion to decide who's telling the truth.

All right.

So that brings me to to the next point, y'all.

Folks, we are watching a game of chess being played right before our eyes, and it's who's going to get checkmate first.

So Nafisa Collier, she's using a lot of strategy successfully in many ways.

And this is often the case.

There's nothing negative about being strategic in a labor dispute.

But just to point out a couple of the chess moves.

Fee had this conversation with Kathy Engelbert in February.

She has sat on this conversation and very damning information since February, understanding what the right time would be to drop this bomb.

And, you know, really couldn't have been better timing with Kathy having to address press and the magnifying glass of the finals.

I mean, she strategically delivered that information.

Then I want to point out another chess move by Fee.

So Kathy denied saying the things that Fee said she said.

And

Fee responded by canceling the meeting.

So that Kathy said they were going to have.

Now, I think on one hand, she canceled the meeting because Kathy made a liar out of her.

So Kathy said, I didn't say that.

So she probably felt insulted, you know, that Kathy is saying something Fee said is not true or, you know,

false.

But I also think there's a bigger chess move there in that, remember in that press conference, Kathy was trying to convey to her audience and the public that she still had the ear of the room, that she still had a conversation coming up with Nafisa Collier.

Don't worry, things are okay.

We can repair the trust.

I'm talking to Nafisa Collier later this week.

And she really tried to hammer that home as something to show: trust me, I still have control of this.

And Fee negated everything,

the whole power of that point by canceling that meeting.

Boy, when I saw the report that Fee has canceled the meeting, I said,

What a move.

I was like,

brilliant.

Whatever Kathy was

selling, she said, not happening.

It was brilliant.

I think she canceled the meeting because she wasn't happy with the press conference.

I think there was something said or something not said, something not admitted to that she was like, you know what?

Uh-uh.

This meeting is getting canceled.

And I'm going to prove my point to you that we're not playing.

We're making a point and we want some change.

Change happens.

today with Nafisa Khali and we're all backing her.

You know what I mean?

Because I was even told,

Raws, with certain comments that I wanted to make for the league, wait till you retire, wait till you retire, don't say it yet.

Right?

So we all, but Fi, she just took us there.

She took us there.

So yeah,

this is, yeah.

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A lot of people called Fee's comments brave for those reasons.

You know, for many years, WNBA players were really, you know, worried about salaries.

There were no other ways to make a lot of money.

There were no, you know, alternative leagues.

And players were told in many different ways to kind of be quiet or hide or you know this and that and fee spoke up and she got the immediate support of a lot of players mind you um just unified fronts saying they um supported her and one that was important was the support of caitlin clark um so caitlin you know waited until fever exit interviews to discuss the fee situation she was criticized for not immediately saying something in support of fee as many other players did, but she did come to the exit interview prepared and said fee said it all she had valid points she also mentioned that fee never told her about kathy's comments about her so that was the first time she was hearing it too and also going back to that espn article by ramona shelborne and kendra andrews that just dropped they made it clear that fee did not discuss her plans to drop this, you know, four-minute league-changing bomb on Kathy Engelbert and the WNBA.

She never discussed it with the Players Association or anyone else.

This was a woman acting alone.

And she's strategically coming back to chess.

There's nothing wrong with being strategic.

She activated the passion around fan groups that support Caitlin, Angel, and Paige.

And it got a lot of uproar.

And so.

It's interesting.

This is not a direct response to fee, but it is interesting comments that Stephanie White, head coach of The Fever, made about Caitlin Clark being a pawn.

And in a recent interview, she said, Caitlin Clark is the pawn in other people's narratives as criticism of WNBA leadership intensifies.

And so what I'll just say on that

is,

look,

whether it has been, Caitlin's been in the league two years and whether it's been politicians utilizing her to push political agendas, whether it's a contentious CBA where both sides are, you know, not trying to

alienate her fan base or evoke emotion and support from her fan base.

I think Steph White is correct.

And that's why, you know, on issues of business, I think it's okay that Caitlin takes her time for responses.

There was a lot of pressure for her to immediately have a comment.

Like, you know, right after Fee made that statement, it was right before the Fever were about to play a game.

There's a lot at stake.

when it comes to Caitlin and her business affects the W's business.

I think it's okay.

She takes a moment, speaks to her team and comes out with, you know, the words she wants to say because there's a lot of power in them.

And most recently on Monday, Adam Silver himself has chimed in and addressed the situation directly saying, Kathy Engelbert has presided over historic growth in the league, but there's no question that there's issues that we need to address with our players, not just economic, there's relationship issues as well.

I'm confident we can fix those over time and this league can continue to be on the rocket trajectory that it's on right now.

That is Adam Silver.

Angel, what do you make of that?

I like him chiming in.

I would love for Adam, since we're a brother-sister league, to go to some of the CBA negotiations, sit in the room, hear what the woman have to say, hear some of their concerns, and let's go from there.

Let's build something.

Yeah.

Here, I'm here to tell you that NBA leadership is very much abreast on what's happening in these CBA negotiations.

In fact,

I actually think there's a situation where in some ways Kathy Engelberg is more of like a figurehead who's getting scapegoated in some ways or being piled on in some ways.

And while she's certainly flawed and has made some mistakes here,

she's not the only decision maker who is denying some of the requests of these players.

Look, Kathy, as Adam Silver has pointed out, has had success as a commissioner.

She's also had some flaws.

She's business success, but struggled to connect with the players and show the right empathy at times.

But I think in our society, it's often easy to pile on on a woman.

And here is a figurehead who may not have

likely doesn't have complete agency.

She's definitely reporting into all the different ownership groups of the WNBA.

That's the NBA.

That's the team owners.

There's a small investment group.

It's even Nike.

It actually might be easier for all of those parties I just mentioned to keep her as that.

forward-facing kind of scapegoat.

Let her take the blame and do the dirty work while behind the scenes, they're the ones that can escape criticism and push for for giving the women less and

you know i'm not even sure that making kathy this central lone figure like that's a villain in this story is actually benefiting the the quest of the players because it might actually be creating this convenient veil um of cover for you know true decision makers actors behind the scenes to um you know push their agendas and and do what they want and deny these players of the actual slice of business that they're looking for uh angel again, we're out of time.

This show, we need more than 25 minutes.

But you know where you can find us Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Make sure you tap in for Thursday's episode.

We got a special interview coming up.

You won't want to miss it.

But for Angel, I'm Roz.

Thank you for watching Good Follow Show presented by DraftKings and watch bygones.

It's coming out when, Angel,

October 10th.

All right, we'll catch you then.

Take care.