Hour 1: [Redacted] Is Out On Taylor Swift (feat. Lucy Rohden)

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This is the Dan Labatar Show with the Stu Gats Podcast.

Do you think I could could talk to you on camera real quick?

For what?

It's for the Dan Levittard show.

It's a segment called Off-Roading.

The Dan Patrick Show?

No, Dan Levittard, so it's

in Miami.

He's a guy, and you might know his dad, Poppy.

You know, I'm kind of worried about my digital footprint.

I'm gonna have to bass on this one.

I'm just gonna ask you questions about the game.

I don't want to talk to you.

Fine!

Geez!

Hey, Dan, it's me, Lucy.

We're here today today at the Notre Dame Boise State game and I can't wait to talk to some fans about game day.

We're gonna have a good time and get what the vibe is like on campus.

How did I do?

Today is my first time at a Notre Dame game.

What do I need to know?

What do I need to be prepared for?

You need to know that you're about to have like the best day of your entire life.

It's the most magical experience you can ever have.

Is it magical because of the leprechauns?

There's only a few teens in the world that, you know, God's rooting for.

Things go wrong.

Do you also blame God for that or no?

No, because it's all part of the journey.

We're all in Destiny here and eventually we're going to get another championship.

What is your favorite tradition?

My favorite one has to be when we score a touchdown.

They put somebody up and you have to do the amount of push-ups that we have scored points.

Have you been the touchdown person before?

I have, but I saved it for the playoff game in Miami and we did win that game so I feel like I can't go back up again until like playoff season.

It hasn't happened to me before.

I've never been lifted in the air by complete strangers.

It's definitely better to be lifted than to lift, I can tell.

He was stressed I was gonna float away like a feather in the air because I'm so skinny.

Everyone knows about Touchdown Jesus, right?

We also have First Down Moses, which is a statue of Moses going like this, like a first down.

But every year on Halloween, someone puts a tiny little pumpkin on his finger.

How cute is that and spooky?

One time when I was a student, I was walking past the statue of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, and

Joseph has his hand outstretched and there was a hot dog in his hand.

And I thought, oh, that must be a thing.

Like, it's the hot dog Jesus statue.

And then like 10 years later, I was explaining it to one of my friends and they were like, that's not a thing.

You just walked past it once when there was a hot dog there.

So now this is my petition to dub that statue hot dog Jesus.

Can you describe what it's like to see Marcus Freeman on the sideline ever again?

It is like a spiritual experience to see him and appreciate him for all he is.

We need Marcus Freeman to run like a clinic for men.

I'm just going to say it.

They're respectful young ladies.

He's so hot.

You three are seniors.

This is CJ Carr's first season starting as the quarterback at Notre Dame.

How bummed are you that you will not be students to watch what will be the inevitable 2026 Heisman campaign?

So bummed.

So I have a philosophy class with CJ Carr, so I get to talk to him like every Monday and Wednesday.

He is the nicest guy that you've ever met in your entire life.

What does the CJ stand for in CJ Carr?

Chris?

No, it's got to be a long name, right?

I'll tell you, it's Curtis Jason.

Curtis Jason, okay.

Now you can call him Curtis in your philosophy class.

Do you have a message for USC?

They're not trying to play this game anymore.

Still enjoy the rivalry on the West Coast and we'll keep it on as long as they're willing to and we're happy to kick their ass.

Let's row to the playoffs.

We're going to make it.

A couple teams are going to lose.

We're going to win a couple games.

But they don't want to play Notre Dame anymore.

They don't.

They don't.

They're sad.

They're sorry.

Sounds like you're afraid.

You don't want the smoke?

Well, it is the University of Scared Children.

So that's consistent with their name and how they actually play on the field in my experience.

Could not have said it better myself.

Thank you, Ryan Harris.

Today is the Irish wear green game.

Everyone is in green.

And do you think that Notre Dame did this to give Boise State fans a taste of their own medicine watching a team play wearing green on green turf?

Oh I think it's fine.

I like the green on green.

It's a cool color.

Cool.

Thank you.

We are all from Boise and we are all rooting for Notre Dame.

We love Boise State.

We would go for them.

We would root for them any other day.

But we got a child that just started here, a freshman girl.

I'm excited.

So we are all new Notre Dame fans.

Okay, Lucy, we took a tour of campus.

You've talked to some fans.

What are your thoughts so far?

This is top five most beautiful campus we've ever seen.

It's beautiful.

I don't go to church very often, but those churches were really nice.

I would go more.

Well, now you have to give us your top five.

Number five, OLI, Iowa, because I went there.

Or OLI, Iowa.

Number five, I like Clemson's campus.

We'll go Clemson five.

Number four, Auburn, beautiful campus.

South Carolina's actual campus, beautiful.

So that was three.

Two, Notre Dame.

And number one, deep cut.

We've never been here, but Wake Forest is the most beautiful campus I've ever seen.

I'm about to go in.

What y'all be expecting?

Come one, come all, and enjoy this experience because it's steeped in Catholic tradition.

And if you need your mind, your soul, and your heart refreshed, and you want to watch some great football, you come to the right place.

That was motivational as hell.

This trip to the bin was brought to you by the Game Time app.

Download the Game Time app and use code Lucy for $20 off your first order, terms apply.

Hey Dan, it's me, Jessica.

Let me say this was the most fun I've ever had in my life.

I love working with Lucy.

She is maybe the most talented person that works at this company and I'm just going to say it, one of the prettiest as well.

This was so much fun.

I would say it would be awesome if me, Jessica, could go to every game with Lucy for the rest of time.

Thank you.

Put it on the poll, please, Juju at Lebatard Show.

Did you have God rooting for a two-loss team in October?

Lucy, thank you for joining us.

Why are the vibes so much different around two-loss Notre Dame than they are around two-loss Penn State?

Is it just because Marcus Freeman is beautiful and, as that man said, the nicest guy in the world?

He is beautiful.

Well, I think you just have to take a look at like the quality of losses.

Texas, Penn State, UNC, they don't have wins over Power Five teams.

So like when your two losses are against Miami, which might be the best team in the country, and Texas A ⁇ M, which is also one of the best teams in the country, and they were close losses, like you didn't get blown out, you probably don't feel that bad.

Also, if you look ahead at Notre Dame's schedule, there's not a ton of meat left on there.

There's the USC game and that's about it.

So like they're not in this super terrible position.

They're not in a great position because like you don't have a this is kind of the one time I think being in a like not in a conference hurts them because you don't have the chance for a conference championship game to you know sort of solidify your spot but like the vibes are fine with Notre Dame.

I'm not worried about it.

Their defense has looked a little bit better the last few weeks.

Their offense is really good.

CJ Carr has been great so far.

So like vibes are good.

What about Texas though?

What did you make of them going to Florida and looking like that?

Yeah, Texas is a bad football team.

They dropped out of the poll this week as they should have.

Arch Manning was their leading rusher with 15 carries and 37 yards.

Outside of Arch Manning, they had 15 yards on the the ground.

Like their offense is completely one-dimensional, and I think Arch is a problem.

Like I think he loves throwing in a double coverage.

It's like his favorite thing to do, and I'm not quite sure why.

But I don't think he's actually like the main issue there.

He was sacked six times.

They cannot run the ball.

Their offense is completely stagnant.

I still think their defense is pretty good, but like, what do you mean you're playing in Florida and you're not forcing DJ Lagway into these tough situations?

Like he had five turnovers against LSU, five interceptions.

Like you should have been able with the quality of your defense to put him in a more uncomfortable situation.

But like that offense is a real concern.

And like, what do you mean?

You, they have no run game.

They aren't even trying to run the ball.

It is very concerning, especially when you're like, aren't you supposed to be an like offensive genius, Steve?

Isn't that like your whole thing?

Bad football team, though?

You're saying Texas is bad.

I won't say bad, but they're certainly not good.

Like, I don't think they're a top 25 team.

I don't think they are like in the realm where they're going to be competing for the SEC or the playoff at this point.

And like, I I just think they're so one-dimensional on offense.

And I might even go as far as to say they're not even one-dimensional because Arch has these great moments.

But outside of that, you're still like, hey, I kind of want more.

And it's a decision that I don't think they'll ever bench him because like financially, that's just kind of something crazy to do.

I just think that like,

they went out and they recruited really well.

They had the top recruiting class in the country coming into this year.

You didn't do what you needed to do in the portal when it came to your offensive line and it shows.

Arch was sacked six times this game.

You have no run game whatsoever and it was just like you abandoned this like core principle of what would have made your football team very good, which is something that Texas has done over the last few years.

Like their offensive line was good last year, but if you look at the last like five years of SARC, like that has consistently sort of been a problem where like you have talent, obviously you're Texas, but like that offensive line just hasn't been like what it takes to go to the playoff with the SD, with the exception of the last like two years.

One of the things that's super stupid about these polls is that if I put Texas Tech, if I made everything else the same and put Texas Tech in either Texas uniforms, Ohio State uniforms, Penn State uniforms, Texas Tech would be in the top three, would they not?

Just based on what they've shown you this season.

Yeah, based on vibes, they're like super fun.

I still, I know that Utah isn't ranked anymore, but that Utah win was really impressive.

And like what Texas Tech is doing really well is they're winning the games they should and they're like kicking ass in the process.

Like they're not, they're not messing around against Houston.

They're going out and they're taking care of business.

I think it hurts them that one, they're Texas Tech, where like you obviously don't have the benefit of being a bluebud.

And you're in the Big 12, which is just kind of a giant like.

weird little cesspool right now where you sort of had Iowa State, they lost this weekend.

They were one of three top 15 teams to lose.

They lost to Cincinnati on the road.

And so there just really isn't enough in the Big 12 to sort of give Texas Tech that support to make them, you know, considered a top three team.

But honestly, does it really matter?

Because one, I hate the AP poll and it's stupid and it's made up and I disagree with it entirely all the time.

But like you have a 12-team playoff right now, which I think this year is so interesting because like, can we name 12 like really good teams?

Well, this is the problem with what Mike's saying.

Mike's saying that Penn State can erase that loss to UCLA, which is a loss no team like that has ever had against an 0-4 team with just a win against Ohio State.

No, I don't think that that is.

I think that loss was bad enough that it would take, it won't, if they beat Ohio, so Penn State's next four games are Northwestern, which they have the same record as right now, Iowa, Indiana, and Ohio State, they would have to beat all four of those teams.

Because if you beat Indiana and Ohio State, I think that's enough.

But even just beating Ohio State with that loss to UCLA, which we cannot emphasize enough, there is a top 10 team has not lost to a zero and four team in 40 years.

It's the first time that's happened.

This is one of the worst losses in modern college football history.

If you watch the broadcast, you heard it a million times.

UCLA had not had a lead the entire season.

There was not one minute this entire college football season where UCLA was up until they played New Mexico and lost by 25 at home to New Mexico.

Yeah, they got destroyed by them.

I disagree.

Lucy, I have to disagree with you.

We've seen in this small sample, like Alabama had a bad loss last year.

They got themselves back into that conversation.

The system is just so geared for Big Ten teams.

If they go 3-0, headed into that Ohio State game, they're probably going to be right there in the teens with an opportunity to play themselves in the CFP.

That's what the system is.

I disagree because Oklahoma and UCLA are very different.

Oklahoma is a team that has like, you know, there's some power with that name.

Even if they were bad last year, it's still Oklahoma.

They're still the talent.

It was such a disgusting loss.

Like I truly did not think UCLA would win a game this season.

They were such a bad, bad football team.

And I think, one, we're giving this a lot of like hypothetical credit.

Like if James Franklin can't beat UCLA, like what's going to finally turn it around against Ohio State for him?

I don't think it would have to be winning that Indiana game and winning that Ohio State game that will put them back in the conversation.

But like, let's look at how the SEC is playing out right now.

The SEC seems to be a lot more competitive.

There's a lot of teams ranked like in the top 10, in the top 15.

If it comes down to a Penn State team with a loss to UCLA or an LSU team with a loss to Ole Miss, who do you think they're going to pack?

They're just going to big conferences.

Like, like, what, 12 days passed between that Oklahoma loss and Alabama

getting into that college football conversation?

Like, we're all going to forget about the UCLA loss if

thoroughly manhandles Indiana and they're right there

against Ohio State.

Everyone's going to be talking that up.

It's just how the system is.

I don't think that happens at all.

Because one, that team quit.

That, like, if you looked at that Penn State team, they just like seemed like their will to live had been lost.

Like, it just doesn't seem like they have anything in them anymore.

That UCLA loss was so bad.

You lost to an adult blonde man.

We can't forget that.

With a bad hairline.

With a thinning hairline who didn't even know how to get the plays in.

Did you see that detail?

He wasn't even holding down the button.

He was like, I don't know how to use the headset.

And then, and you put James Franklin in hell?

You put Jim Knowles in hell?

Like, it was such an insanely bad loss.

Like, this will go down as one of the worst losses in college football history because I know it's UCLA.

Like, it doesn't really have like the name effect of losing to like a, you know, a MAC school or whatever, but that is a genuinely terrible UCLA team.

It is such an intense loss where like, I know the Alabama-Oklahoma comparison, I get that.

Oklahoma had won games up until that point UCLA had not I just don't think that this Penn State team which this is what's so interesting about it is because this was supposed to be the Penn State team James Franklin told you this was the most talented team that he has ever had at Penn State and this is what they they produced honestly what I'm so curious about with this one is like I never thought that Penn State was ever in the realm of firing James Franklin even after that Oregon loss, even after all those Ohio State losses, because he was consistently winning 10 games a year and he wasn't losing games like this.

Losing this game, I think, has firmly pushed him into hot seat territory because this is such an insanely bad loss.

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Hey, audience, I got a special treat for you because I want to talk to you about Miller Light, but I want to talk to you about Miller Light with my good friend Rose.

Hey, Rose.

Hi, everybody.

When we hang out, and we hang out often, we're friends.

I consider us friends.

Yeah, me too.

We're often toasting the good times.

And what am I toasting with?

With Miller Light.

That's right, Miller Light.

Whether you're hanging out with your dear friend Rose or at game day, it just hits different when you got a Miller Light in your hand.

From jaw-dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's a beer that has been there for every moment.

50 years of great taste, simple ingredients, and that iconic golden color that you can spot across the room.

And it's just not the color of the beer, which is brilliant.

That beautiful white can.

How beautiful is that?

Is that you doing the sound of a can opening?

Is that your favorite sound?

Um, no, it is a horsey.

A horsey?

All right, we'll stop doing that.

And here's a kicker.

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That's right.

And still hitting different five decades later.

You're so good at this, Rose.

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So, whatever your game day looks like, remember, Miller time is always a good time.

Look at us.

We're a great tag team.

Time five again.

Can you do that beer sound one more time?

And the horse sound one more time?

I regret asking you about that one, but the Miller Light sound is good.

Miller Light, great taste, 96 calories.

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On sess.

No, it says.

Oh, sesh.

Don Lebatard.

He seems like a not-nice guy, and he's always been a not-nice guy.

I don't care for him, and I hope he has the day he deserves.

Oh,

Stugats.

I hope

he has the day he deserves.

That's how I get people when they're really mean to me.

I'm not like, go F yourself.

I'm like, I hope you have the day you deserve.

It's a great

insult.

It's a great kind insult.

Yes.

It's beautiful.

It's leaving it to the cosmos to sort it out.

That's a less southern, bless your heart.

This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.

Lucy, you mentioned there might not be 12 teams that are real, really playoff quality, great teams.

Who do you see as the worst teams that have a chance to make the playoff?

The two-loss teams, maybe even a three-loss team?

Oh, that's a good question.

I think you could look at like half the SEC for that.

I think that maybe my choice right now would be LSU because I think their defense, which they only have one loss on the season, I'm pretty sure.

Their defense is phenomenal, but their offense is so stagnant.

It is so one-dimensional.

They have no run game whatsoever.

And I think that they are a team that like there is a lot of talent there.

There's a lot of like, you know, pomp and circumstance with it, but I just don't think they're good enough that

their defense is good enough, but it won't carry them when they're on the field 45 minutes a game.

I'm going to ask something that would have seemed just the most patently ridiculous thing that could be said about football about 10 years ago.

But you mentioned James Franklin on the hot seat.

North Carolina, among offenses in football, is 128th of 135 offenses.

Is Bill Belichick five games in at North Carolina on the hot seat?

I feel like he has to be.

His buyout is like $30 million, I think.

I was reading up on it this morning.

Up until like December 2027, UNC would have to pay him out the remainder of his contract.

That is a terrible football team.

Like, there's not one bright spot.

There's not one good moment.

And I understand that it's obviously a transitional year, but like

that first drive of the season.

When Skip Bayless said that, and Colin Cowherd said that they were going to be coached better than any team has ever been coached.

It's like remarkable.

I knew they were going to be bad.

There was never a question where they were going to be bad.

I think Bill Belichick kind of came in with this sort of idea that this is so easy.

I'm going to go coach in college football where you don't realize it's the stupidest sport in the world.

It's very difficult to be a good head coach here, but I'm going to come into college football.

It's going to be really easy.

I'm going to prove that I'm such a great exit guy and I'm going to get a job in the NFL.

That's why if he wants to leave, he only has to pay a million dollars if he wants to go take an NFL job.

That hasn't happened at all.

They did have a top 10 transfer portal class.

Like they did have like a level of talent coming in.

It's just very clear that that is just like, that is a like dead football team.

There is no life.

There is nothing good happening there.

I was reading up this morning about like, and you have all these outside stuff.

You have the stuff with his girlfriend.

You have the stuff with that.

UNC is not allowed to like mention the Patriots at all, even though obviously Drake May went to UNC.

And it's this whole weird thing going on.

Like parents aren't allowed to contact Bill Belichick.

Players don't have phone numbers of their coaches because it's just such a weird thing.

Like the vibes are completely off.

And you have a very terrible football team in front of you and you just simply don't know what to do.

UNC is another team where if they don't win another game, it wouldn't shock me.

I have something that shocked me today, which is Jeremy came in here with a question I have not heard.

I haven't heard for too long some trope about has Travis Kelsey been ruined by Taylor Swift?

But I think Jeremy turning on Taylor Swift suggests that perhaps Taylor Swift has been ruined by Travis Kelsey.

Look, I'm certainly not

saying that Travis Kelsey's causing this.

I'm just saying that Taylor Swift album is not good.

It's not good.

Taylor Swift's album is bad.

Wow.

In fact.

Elizabeth Taylor.

Does I like Elizabeth Taylor?

That's because you're trying to convince yourself you like something.

These songs are trite.

Wow.

The lyrics are

elementary.

What about wood?

Kiss your mother at that mouth?

I mean wood.

Come on, Dan.

And Taylor Swift trying to get into the Sabrina Carpenter game of witty comedic lyrics, just sort of punching down almost, going down to a level of what she's not supposed to be.

She's supposed to be an eloquent lyricist, Dan.

And from everything I heard on this record, not only were the lyrics kind of, again, trite, but the music was boring.

You're going to make a whole big deal about going back to Max Martin and, oh man, Max Martin and Shellback are going to create these big bangers.

Oh, give me the music back.

That's it.

Lucy's internet minute, please.

Okay, so as Jeremy said, I'm not a Swifty, so like I was not really looking forward to this album drop, but I paid attention to the lyrics.

I listened a little bit, and the premise of this album was Taylor Swift being like, hey, I have sex.

Just so you guys know, I do it.

I have sex with my hot football boyfriend.

And then it was also her like bullying Charlie XEX, which I don't really understand that much, but she like was writing diss tracks in this.

She was like, it was like very,

you know, the best way I can describe it, which i know this isn't gonna hit with you guys but it definitely would hit with jeremy it's when people used to draw mustaches on their finger and they'd be like

that's the energy of this album that's exactly right thank you i knew you yeah

really great place remember the people that got those tattoos thinking that would be a thing like forever and now they just have dumb mustaches on their fingers it is so stupid and that is like the entire energy of this album it is very just like

I don't even know how to describe it.

And

I'm not a big fan of her music.

I haven't, I don't think she's like a lyrical genius but i did write down the lyrics to woods because i think they're interesting is that the one

is that the one about travis's yeah it's about travis kelsey um greg i was hoping you could read them because i don't feel comfortable doing it all right dad absolutely forgive me it sounds cocky he amatized me why don't you sing a little put it in like you know sing it a little yeah yeah a little kiss i don't i've never heard

it's like king of the road kind of yeah do it in that cadence.

King of the Road?

Yeah, do it in that cadence.

You're familiar with the case.

Yes, trailer.

Just turn it into a song.

Forgive me, it sounds cocky.

He amatized me and opened my eyes.

Redwood tree, it ain't hard to see.

His love was the key that opened my thighs.

Girls, I don't need to catch the bouquet to know a hard rock is on the way.

And baby, I'll admit I've been a little superstitious.

The curse on me was broken by your magic wand.

Seems to me that you and me, we make our own luck.

New heights of manhood.

I ain't got a knock on wood.

I mean, she name-dropped a podcast in her lyrics.

Taylor Swift.

New heights.

Taylor Swift, the greatest songsmith of her generation, dropping a podcast name and talking about being

out on...

Taylor Swift is the shock of the day.

Maybe don't spend your entire time just being a business and mass producing music just to do it and putting four CDs out there with alternate tracks just to make money and grift off of your audience.

Like, it's enough.

You're just going to be a big business.

Do something creative.

Sound jealous.

I can't believe where I am in the world where Greg Cody, on the same day, Greg Cody's out on the Dolphins and Jeremy's out on Taylor Swift.

Wild.

Shocking.

Crazy.

What's more shocking?

Put it on the poll at Lebatard show.

More shocking.

Greg being out on the Dolphins, Jeremy being out on Taylor Swift.

Any other lyrics from Wood you'd like to read for us?

Because Lucy's too afraid to read the lyrics?

Those were the highlights.

I mean, open my thighs.

Come on.

Not very subtle.

Not very subtle there, Taylor.

Not very subtle.

Lucy, the leaves are turning.

Who's your leader?

in the Heisman house for October.

Man, the Heisman is weird right now, right?

Like, I don't know.

Dante Moore is the, what I thought was the favorite at the moment.

I'm fine with that.

Mike, you're going to love my answer.

If we're, if we're just doing funsies, if we're just doing best player in college football, you should give it to Ruben Bain.

Oh, yeah!

My God.

What?

Luce.

All right.

He's so fun to watch.

He's just like football.

That's what he is.

He's just football.

And so this Heisman year is weird because we don't really have a favorite at this point.

Club Nick, Archmanning, Garrett Nussmire have all been disappointing.

I think Jeremiah Smith's the best player in college football, but I think Ruben Bain's the most fun.

So, Cristobal has to stop playing him 80 snaps a game.

That's asinine.

It's wild.

It's asinine.

I love it, though.

I'm like, yes, give me all the Ruben Bain.

Thank you, Lucy.

Good talking.

Hold on, actually, before you go, Lucy, we gave my dad another Taylor Swift song.

I am not reading this.

Come on, come on.

This is a very hyper-sexual album.

Okay, this is not a Taylor Swift single.

Yes, it is.

That's from the new album.

The new album.

She covered it.

She covered it.

I'll do it if you refuse to do it.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no.

Come on,

point out.

Come on.

Just make some noises if you want great.

It's in the future.

It's fine.

You don't have to say the words.

King of the Road.

All right, let's go.

King of the Road, yeah.

Take it for a walk.

Do I bleep myself?

Yeah.

If you have to.

Yeah, you can go bleep yourself.

All you ladies pop your bleep like this.

Shake your body.

Don't stop.

Don't miss.

All you ladies pop your bleep like this.

Shake your body.

Don't stop.

Don't miss.

Just do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now.

That's enough.

As a matter of fact, that's too much.

Not enough.

Thank you, Greg, for participating.

Thank you, Lucy.

Where are you off to this week?

Oh, we're going to Auburn.

I'm very excited.

Auburn, Georgia.

I heard it's very fun there.

We're going to get lemonade.

That's what they have there, lemonade.

Oh, there, huh?

These are not Taylor Swift lyrics.

You guys tricked Greg Cody.

You got to put your neck into it.

Don't stop.

Just do it.

Do it.

Then roll your tongue.

This is not Taylor Swift.

You would never do such a thing.

Is anyone saying that Travis Kelsey has ruined Taylor Swift?

Is anyone because Jeremy said it?

Nope, not me.

I'm the last person to say that.

I'll just say she ruined herself.

Why are you pointing at Jeremy, Mike?

You did that.

Because it was Billy.

Well, I mean, Jeremy, you being out on Taylor Swift, we can move on from this, but I really didn't believe that she could do something so poorly that you would turn on her.

I have not heard a whole lot of people publicly turning on what is the most commercially successful artist there is.

It's the commercial, Dan.

It's the fact that these last few albums, you had to almost...

Look, there were some good songs on Midnights and there were some decent songs on Tortured Poets Department, the last two albums, but there was a lot of like needing to convince yourself that these were hits.

There was a lot of, all right, well, once I give it another listen, once I give it another listen, I'll grow to like it.

Once it's all over the radio, it'll be great.

Once I hear it, that hook once again, it'll get stuck in my head.

That's not what it's supposed to be with Taylor Swift, Dan.

You're supposed to be able to listen to the music and enjoy it right away.

And you're supposed to be able to listen to the lyrics and think that they're top tier right away.

And it just feels, and I've been talking about this for a little while, that this mass production of music, the need to release a new album every year, the need to have individual C D and tape and bonus record sales every time that another female artist is climbing in the charts.

It's, hey, let me release a new version of this so that I can make sure I'm not unseated from the charts.

Get the vinyl exclusively at Target.

Right.

It's just, you're a billionaire.

You don't need to be playing the victim within your lyrics anymore.

Like, evolve.

And there was such an evolution with folklore and even Evermore and the songwriting that to have these these steps backwards, particularly with this record, be happy.

You can be happy.

Make bangers.

That's what you're here to do, right?

Jeremy, have the critics agreed with you or has it been favorably received?

I don't know.

It's mixed.

There are some critics that have come out and listened to the album and wrote non-favorable reviews.

It was interesting that Rolling Stone at Midnight, the moment it was released, had a 100 out of 100 rating for it.

I wonder how that happens.

To me, it just seems like it's okay to have a miss.

If Taylor comes back with something innovative the next time around, I can be one back, no different than I'm sure there are other fans are.

But even Swifties, like real Swifties on the internet, are like, how are we supposed to continue to defend this?

A lot of these songs sound like the songs that people make to make fun of Taylor Swift.

There's also, you know, people have put out videos where three or four of the songs sound like songs by other people.

Oh, there's a song that completely rips off a Jonas Brothers song.

A Jonas Brothers song.

Luis Miguel.

Come on.

It's hard to remain popular commercially for a long time, and usually the way that people remain popular commercially is by staying commercial.

Rare is the Kendrick Lamar that gets to be somebody who becomes a mainstream alternative without becoming commercial.

Like how, how, how is she going to have

the biggest song of the year last night?

No, I know, but I'm saying that it's rare.

It's rare that someone gets to stay authentic without being accused of selling out as you keep making stuff because you have to keep the machine going and keep money going.

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Don Lebatard.

I want to talk to Hannah, the astrophysicist, and I want to make make bets with her.

So smart.

What about Ian?

I want to...

No.

No.

See, this is what I want to do with our show.

No, not.

No, don't let Billy's team of dumb demons spew all over the bottom of this company and piss all over the show.

No.

Stugats.

Ian broke down everyone that was drafted on the offensive line, except centers, because the Jets didn't need one.

Let's have Ian go against the astrophysicist head to head.

And let's see, let's put some money on it.

You're informed idiot or Lucy's actually smart person who doesn't know anything, but at least we're going to choose an astrophysicist and not Taylor's roommate who's not named Ian.

This is the Don Labatar show with these two guys.

The Chiefs last night fall to two and three, but play the kind of game, I think, that most people would look at and say, well, if they're that,

I believe they'll beat most teams in the league.

The news we have not gotten to today, I'm going to put news in quotes.

LeBron James yesterday had everyone feeling like,

and this part, you know, I love that Phillies Dodgers game so much.

I love that ninth inning.

There was so much cool baseball stuff in that ninth inning.

I watched, it had the sound in.

I'm in hardball.

Castellanos's slide, that

swing, that swing

at the end on a bad pitch where he makes it to second, but then the Dodgers erase him by playing such simplified baseball with a wheel play that you just hardly ever see work in the biggest spot where they get Castellanos at third because they don't pinch run for him because they want to keep him in the game and he's a little slow.

And the difference between him being safe at second and him being out at third is, and a play at the plate.

Like

these seasons are swinging on inches that are super interesting.

But

when LeBron James tweets out something cryptic, did you guys immediately think it was an ad or a play for commercial success since we're speaking about how it is that people become less popular or cornier?

I saw, I lived long enough to see Michael Jordan be someone people were making fun of for his dad genes.

LeBron's the oldest player in the league.

He's become, there's some dad corniness there while still being great and still being popular.

How did you guys receive immediately the news that he was tweeting cryptically that seemed like it might be for an advertisement today?

Well, a lot of the instant reaction was: is he retiring?

Is he hinting that he's going to retire?

But this is, LeBron's done this for years now.

I think as he ages and his epic career ebbs, he's getting more and more hungry for attention, to be honest with you.

I think he'll do anything to be the center of attention as he's now barely hanging onto the top 10 in NBA's best players.

Did you guys actually think he was anyone actually think he was retiring?

I thought that there would be news coming.

Yes, I got fooled by it.

How do you think he's going to announce it when he actually does?

He'll say it the year before.

Kind of like this.

This is the My Last Rock.

Yeah, I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility that it could be a corporate-sponsored retirement announcement because I do think to the point made back here is, yeah, I think LeBron's the kind of guy that wants a year-long goodbye.

So he's definitely going to announce it ahead of time.

It would be really surprising if he just goes quietly into that.

Rob Palenka, the general manager of the Lakers, said something I found surprising in that he put his name on LeBron will get to retire however he wants.

He has earned that.

Now, I heard the crafts say that too of Tom Brady, and then they ran him out of town.

So I don't know that the words mean very much.

But Palenka did say he gets to do it his way.

are you guys expecting an announcement today that is LeBron is going to retire at the end of this year brought to you by Amazon Prime is that what you guys are expecting I would I would handicap that at like plus 400 I think the clubhouse leader right now is this is just some kind of Amazon tie-in and that's not my own guess that's just me reading what's on social media where people feel very strongly about this it did I did find it curious though to see him wearing like the red and white checkered shirt again And, oh, like, we can now lean into the decision.

This is something that we reflect back on.

It's like, hey, remember that when he was just destroyed for doing that thing?

I can't believe that he is at the point now where he's like, let me tap back into that well and let's have fun with it.

What is the cost of being lame in popular culture?

I'm asking you guys seriously, like being someone who's

if it's this craven,

if it's indeed either sponsoring his retirement announcement or just teasing you because we know that the greatest currency today is how do I get more attention?

We were talking about this yesterday as it related to Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders and Last Acts when you've spent 30 years being someone who knows exactly how to get attention, craves it, feeds off it, and needs it as nourishment at the end because it seems to me ridiculous what you guys are claiming that people like Aaron Rodgers and LeBron James would need yet more attention than all the attention they've already gotten.

My question is: who's the other guy in this video?

Because if this was serious, he would have gotten a journalist to do it like he did the first time, Jim Gray.

Like, I have no idea who this guy is.

I don't know either.

It looks like Richard Jefferson from here, but I'm looking at it from a great distance here, so I don't know who.

No, that's not Richard Jefferson.

Wow, why is he sitting down with James Franklin?

He's curious.

Is that Ben Kingsley?

I can't totally.

Some bald people, some bald people.

That's a good profile.

I like that.

Mixing it up so we can't be accused of stereotyping him.

Corey Brooker?

Corey Brooker.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Great guess.

Maybe he's going into politics.

There you go.

So you guys think this is just going to be something lame?

Does it cost him anything to be this person?

Dude, did you see that Nike commercial that he had?

Bill Simmons posted it out there and he's like, man, this is pretty cringy.

And I watched it.

I'm like, wow, this is really cringy.

The things that he's saying and still playing some of the same notes.

Like, you did it.

It's like Jeffrey Bezos, you did it.

LeBron, you did it.

You don't need to keep scoring points a little bit.

And to your earlier point about like, what does being corny cost you?

Man, I know his play has done a lot with it, but if Russell Wilson was just a little bit more chill in the latter stage of his career and didn't have these videos that just made him seem like culturally off.

Well,

let me, for a moment, talk about sort of the importance of marketing and brand management and the way that Tom Brady and Derek Jeter and Michael Jordan did what they did.

Michael Jordan, most specifically.

He had such a giant creative marketing arm around him that could get Spike Lee to do the commercials that he never became lame because we didn't have all this access to him that we have for what is America's greatest internet athlete.

Like LeBron James, we've had too much access to him.

And so invariably, he's going to age right in front of us if it's not all being done by Spike Lee and an economy of marketers who know exactly how to do this.

I don't know where

Wyman and Kennedy went, but ESPN's popularity dropped.

Immediately when they stopped doing the commercials because of how important it is to craft this stuff around economies that are already popular in a way that has so much touch and grace in it that you don't see the lameness because it's a note off because because it's so craven and and the way Michael Jordan specifically did it with Nike and with marketing arms that made sure Michael just don't say anything we'll do it all just just stand in the commercials and be cool and don't wear the dad jeans just we'll do everything to make sure that the uh the people never get tired of how cool you are we have too much access and to this person we've had too much access.

And he spent the last 10 years with so much power that no one can tell him anything about how things look.

He's going to make his own choices.

There's no way that anything happens that LeBron's not totally good with.

And I understand why LeBron would treat his people very well and trust his people very well because to date, they've done well by him in terms of making sure that he stays publicly relevant.

I think LeBron has asbestos to all of that at this point.

He is his own brand.

I think the brand management is brilliant, and he's bigger than whatever the outside opinions are.

Asbestos?

I don't think that's how you use that one.

It's the second time today.

No, asbestos?

Asbestos means you have insulation against the flames.

Yeah.

Right?

Okay.

So.

I guess you're right.

It makes you sick.

Well, I think writer.

But yeah, I mean, different connotation.

Proceed.

Okay, but what I'm getting at is a lot of people thought he hit an off-key by alluding to the decision two, because the decision one

was really criticized nationally.

He doesn't care.

I think he's self-deprecating in a way that's good.

And I would use as an example the TV commercials he does with Kevin Hart, where one of them says Kevin Hart is saying to him, they want somebody who can run the 40, not somebody who is 40.

And it's funny, and it's playing on his age and the fact that he's at the end of his career.

I think everything he does is good.

I think he's beyond, not beyond criticism, but beyond it affecting him in any way.

Everything he does is good.

Everything he does is good.

LeBron James has had very close to an impeccable career, in my opinion.

Okay, he has not been sullied by any significant controversy.

I think he's been...

I have an idea.

I think he's one big one.

What was it?

China.

Space Champ 2?

Well, okay, China.

If we're going to go to China, then we implicate the entire NBA.

If we want to do that, let's get everybody.

Please.

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