Ep 249 | Why Everyone Should Be TERRIFIED of Former ESPN Host Sage Steele | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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Shop Blinds.com now and save up to 45% sitewide blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply and now a blaze media podcast today i'm talking to a woman who is one of my favorite people in the world um she took on disney nobody takes on disney esp. She is one of the country's most loved broadcasters.

And if you're a sports fan, you absolutely know who she is because you watched her on

ESPN for 16 years until they made the mistake of punishing her for just saying, I don't

think I want to put that in my body, having a different opinion.

Plenty of sports anchors could speak their minds freely as long as they were woke,

but not her. She found a way to speak to the nation without them.
We are going to have a

fascinating conversation, sports, faith, politics, picking on the mouse. Welcome to one of my

favorite people in the world, veteran anchor, mother of three, host of the Sage Steele Show,

Sage Steele. world veteran anchor mother of three host of the sage steel show sage steel how are you fabulous it's so good to have you thank you i'm honored to be.
You've never been on my show. No.
Isn't that crazy? I know. How is that possible? I'm going to let the past be the past.
I know. I'm not going to hold a grudge.
No. It is an honor, and I told you this.
I know you hear from everybody, but you've inspired me more than you know. So thank you.
That's really kind. Thank you.
You've inspired me and so many other people with what you did. I mean, I've, I don't want to dwell on this because everybody's told the story, but I think it's important to set the table.
What you did in COVID and just standing up and even risking, I don't even know if you knew that, but risking a job of standing up and saying and when you if i'm not mistaken that was your dream job for a long time right it was um i used to love love disney i don't know walt wouldn't recognize it anymore they've just become this monstrous machine how much would it that feel like i mean when you because all you did at first if i remember right is you came out and you were like i took the jab yeah and i didn't want to and you were right you didn't denigrate them a little bit that's arguable maybe okay um i did it on an off day on a podcast. Um, just, you i had i had no choice if i wanted to keep my job and i didn't appreciate that to be forced to take a shot um and i had done enough homework just to know that there's a lot of questions about it and so this is september of 2021 and um you were one of the first publicly weren't you i guess so but i didn't mean to yeah no i know i just i had talked to my agent at the time and who had talked to people at espn they were saying she really doesn't want to do it and then i thought there were other treatments or vaccines that they were researching that might be somewhat different um would you ask them to consider letting me wait six months I just didn't feel comfortable and my agent said well you know you could get a religious exemption I'm like but that's a lie this isn't about religion for me well you could get a medical but well that's a lie I like I was trying to do it the right way I could have gotten a fake card well that was a lie and then I thought, then they'd really go after to make sure mine's right, because they knew I was hesitant.
So I just waited to the very last second and went and got the shot on the last possible day in order to be fully vaccinated by September 30th, 2021. And then went on a podcast.
And all I said was, because I swear to you, this wasn't a prop. It was warm and I had a short sleeve on and the bandaid was on.
And I'd come straight from the shot to the podcast into yours that I gave in. And I didn't remember.
And it was on Jay Cutler, the former quarterback, his brand new podcast. And he said, what's the bandaid? And I just was like, oops.
and I said I I took it um but I I think this is where I got in trouble I think it's sick and wrong for any company to force anyone to do something to their body that they don't want to but that is right correct it is right at that moment I guess people were more sensitive and i said but i complied because i need my job and i love my job and i'm not surprised because it is a big global company disney like many others that we're forcing i said i'm not surprised but i'm upset but here we are and onward that that was it and what happened how fast did it take for you to get the phone call as soon as the podcast hit, there were a couple other things that made some headlines from the podcast that I apparently wasn't allowed to say. Opinions based on my experiences as a woman in locker rooms for 25, 30 years.
And as a biracial woman, those topics around that got me in trouble. but um it was day after it dropped and it's it started off with you know your uh what you said

isn't going over well um at headquarters and i'm like what are you talking about i like i complied you made me do this i did it i can have an opinion but i followed the rules um and then it quickly went south and um i had to i was given the choice to issue um a formal apology a statement um or i don't have a job i'd be fired and to be suspended with pay but to be suspended um and i'll just for the context that for people who have through the years said oh well you caved you took the, you took the shot. Yeah, I did.
I did. I also, unfortunately, had been recently divorced.
And I was the sole, still am, the sole provider, breadwinner for three kids. All of them are in college right now as we speak.
So when I say I needed that job, I needed that job. And that's my responsibilities to those kids.
So as much as I did break, and I still am disappointed in myself in some ways

for giving in to the mandate, I had no choice.

For a different reason, I never forced anybody to take it.

I think it's your body, you know what I mean?

But I almost took it because we were going over to the Middle East,

and it was, remember the Afghan thing?

And we were trying to save all these people.

Yeah.

And I didn't have to be there, but I wanted to be there and lead some things.

And we thought that the country wasn't going to let us in unless we got the jab.

Yeah.

And we all were sitting in a parking lot here in Dallas waiting for the attorney to say, you have to take it or not. And I wrestled with that.
And I'm so glad I didn't. From what you know now, does it freak you out at all that you took that? The only reason I can honestly say no is because the night before I wasn't sure I was going to do it till I walked in the stupid little pharmacy at a grocery store in the middle of nowhere, Connecticut.
The night before I went to bed in tears because I was like, if I don't do this do this how am I going to feed my kids how am I going to give my husband his alimony checks like real issues real questions and I just I went to bed and I just prayed for a sign and when I woke up the next morning and I got in the shower I was crying still because I'm like what am I going to do And I opened my eyes and I haven't told this story often because it makes me

cry.

This was a house that I had done some renovations,

but I still haven't done the bathroom and there was some ugly brownish marble

tile on the other side of the glass of the shower.

And I saw it.

And for the first time,

after three years of living there for the first time,

when I looked at that one spot, I saw the outline of the shower and i saw it and for the first time after three years of living there for the first time when i looked at that one spot i saw the outline of an angel in the marble i'd looked at that 10 000 times and at that moment i realized i asked for a sign and i took that as you will be protected so i'd like to believe that what went in me that day was water. I don't know, was not the vaccine.
I also had to keep my job, had to get a booster in order to do my job and cover the masters as I always had. And I knew I was risking it, but I felt I did have a choice, but in order to keep my job, I felt I had no choice, and I just had felt like, okay, God has taken care of me all this time, and that was a sign to me, that angel in the marble.
If you wouldn't have seen that, what decision would you have made? I don't know. I don't know.
That sounds crazy to people. I was this close to walking away and just going back to court and saying, I can't pay him all this money.
I don't know. But I know that this is maybe the coolest part besides the angel and the ugly marble.
I went into the pharmacy. It sounds like a bad Hallmark movie.
Christmas with the angel and the ugly marble. Who has brown tile marble? Whatever.
When I sat down in the chair in the stupid grocery store pharmacy in the middle of nowhere, Connecticut, the sweet, I don't, she probably wasn't a nurse probably, like me you know, like me off the street, putting the shot in. And she looked at me and she's like, are you okay? Cause my eyes were red.
And I said, no, I'm being forced to take this to keep my job. And I'm afraid.
And this sweet woman looked at me, grabbed my hand and said, this is so wrong. And I'm so sorry.
Wow. And then

she put it in my arm. Something changed in me at that moment.
Like something in me, anger, something changed. And I don't think i knew it at the time

but uh i felt it tell me what that means anger how do you like they pushed me too far okay as it's going in too late it it it fired me up in ways that i think i'm seeing today still. My mom and I are like, whoa.
But something about her acknowledging how wrong it was to this complete stranger as she did it.

She needed a job too, right?

There's so many people who felt that it was wrong but were afraid to say it.

But then she saw me crying but still doing it.

I drove right home. I sped home because i was late because i sat in the parking lot debating whether i was going to do it for way too long so i was late to get home to do jay cutler's podcast so i believe that like i was fired up that i was put into that position and so when i said what i said um i was holding back but i meant it when I said I thought it was sick and scary, because it is.
It changed so many people. I mean, I remember being on the air, coming home from Christmas vacation, seeing what was happening, before anybody was really paying attention, seeing what was happening in China, and going on the air and saying, this is disturbing.

I don't know what it is yet, but this is disturbing.

These signs aren't good.

Then they started locking people up and everything else.

And I remember saying on the air, don't fear the virus.

Fear what comes and what people do because of the virus, the changes that will happen. But I said at the same time, but I can't imagine that we will ever do anything like that in America.
We'd go crazy. Well, I got the crazy part right.
Yeah. But just, I mean, I couldn't believe what we turned into.

I know. And still, in some ways, are.
Still are. It's sick, and it is shocking, especially here.
China, you know, you can kind of understand. I remember I was thinking about this the other day about, you know, in order to go to work, in order to to go anywhere you had to go to the freaking drive-through and get a swab up your nose to your brain basically the things that we said yes to we all of us that said yes to that's what's so scary but I believe that was the beginning of us realizing.
I think it was.

I mean, RFK. said yes to that's what's so scary but i believe that was the beginning of us realizing i think it was i mean rfk he changed we didn't agree on any he actually at one point i was on when i was hosting a show on cnn because i disagree on the uh on the cures for climate change i can read a temperature gauge, you know but i don't believe these what they're planning on doing is a good thing he actually said you're a traitor and you should be tried for treason when i said to him that's the only thing in the constitution that's clearly spelled out that's the death penalty and he said yes right so i've never had a lot in common with rfk he came on the show and i said you remember that time he said oh yeah and he said covid changed me he said i never thought he said i was too flippant and just i just never thought we would ever become the people yeah like that And he said, when I saw COVID and what we were doing, I couldn't believe it.
And I want nothing to do with it. I mean, that's a massive change.
Especially for Kennedy, for RFK. Right.
He was able to say stuff like that and basically the death penalty. Yeah you agree.
But it wasn't just COVID. Finish what happened in the rest of that interview that you got trouble for.
Well, in chronological order, the first thing was women in sports. And just talking about how much it had evolved through the years.
I graduated from college in 1995. And so I was always the only woman in the locker room, always.
And then there were younger women coming along who I would, you know, I didn't have a female role model or someone to take me under their wing in the locker rooms and to tell you how to kind of manage that whole thing or dealing with all the coaches and traveling and what that looks like. And so I tried to do that with women along the way way and i just saw how more and more women would come in the locker room but then i'd look and i'm like what is what is she wearing and why so i said that's what does that mean disappointing is because when women um not all oh my gosh of course i think most are certainly very professional but when you go into a locker room or any business area conference room whatever it does matter what we're wearing as men too but certainly as women and so when you go into those spaces and you're hanging out and stuff showing and you're more worried about like how sexy you look and how good you look that takes away from the your credibility and all the women who've come ahead of you so i said women we are smart i have two daughters that are in college we talk about those a lot women are so smart let's not play dumb like well oh i felt uncomfortable because you know what if you're wearing that i'm gonna look at you and i like men but like at the end of the day we know what we're wearing i'm just saying be professional as you would anywhere else not look like looking like you're going to a nightclub so that turned into sage steel believes women who dress are asking for it oh deserve to be raped that's what headlines were that was nothing compared to um jay asked me about being biracial and why it's so important to me.
If I'm asked to say yes, biracial, not just black. So in other words, they wanted you to be more black.
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Not available in all states. I told the story of what happened when I was on The View in 2014 with Barbara Walters and Whoopi and Sherry Shepard and Jenny McCarthy.
That was the cast at the time. And they said, hey, can we talk about you being biracial and how important it is to you? I was like, sure.
So we get on there and it's live. And Barbara Walters asked me, you know, about my background.
And then she said, so why don't you just identify as black? And I said, well, because I'm not, I mean, I'm both. At that time, ironically, I found out later when I saw the tape behind me, they put up a picture of my family, my black dad, my white mom and my two brothers.
And hi, I'm both, I'm actually 50% of each and i'm so proud of all of me right isn't that diversity isn't that what we want and promote in this country so she said well 2014 well the president says he's black and he's biracial too and she goes what do you do when you fill out the census and i was like i don't i don't know i checked both or all of them or not. I don't care, but I'm not going to exclude one.
And I said about Obama, I said, well, congratulations to the president. I think it's fascinating that he was raised by his white mother and his white grandmother, and his black father, unfortunately, was nowhere to be found.
He wrote a book about it. This is not breaking notes.
You couldn't say that in 2014. Couldn't say it any time, right? But I said, you do you.
Identify how you want. I'm going to do me.
And I'm pretty sure that my white mom was there the day I was born. And I'm so proud of all of me.
Why is that bad? So you're telling me I'm not enough of this, but tomorrow you're going to say I'm not enough of this. Like I can't keep up.
This is me. I feel like I represent so much of America where we're mixed race and it's beautiful.
So I, it was actually not a big thing then in 2021, when I repeated the exact story on this podcast, it was Sage Steele hates black people and the sellout, the coon, all of the language that I don't like to repeat. Um, so that was the other big thing.
And that along with the Disney common is what got me shot down and canceled. And the ironic thing is when they pulled me off the air and said, you must issue this statement, um, or you're out of a job is what they told my agent, apparently directly to my face I was sick sicker than I've ever been in my life with COVID after of course getting the shot that was supposed to prevent me so I'm in bed unable to breathe at times like it was it got me hard alone my kids were with their father for eight days I was alone I'd never been in a darker place in my life being canceled by every person i thought was a friend every network every peer every everything and all black people not all of course yeah so um that was the beginning of my end um at espn which was also the beginning of a beautiful new beginning.
Like all of it, all of it. But I look back and I still, I swear to you, I would not change a thing.
And there will always be pain from that because the only reason I stood up and sued later is because ESPN and Disney allowed all of my peers

who leaned to the left, who hated Trump,

who loved Obama and loved everybody,

they could say whatever they wanted on ESPN platforms,

live on an NBA show to talk about Roe versus Wade

being overturned

while talking, instead of talking about basketball.

Or the don't say gay bill on a football basketball show.

So my point is, just be consistent.

You cannot allow all of them to say whatever they, on ESPN platforms, nothing to do with

sports, while I'm on a podcast on an off day, talking about my experience as a biracial

woman, my experience with taking this shot and complying with your rules especially when i can't comment on your experience because i'm a white cisgendered man and i can't even relate to your that's i mean that's i can't comment on it they'll shut me down no i can't have an opinion on anything can't but then you biracial you should not have a biracial i mean it's it's really crazy i mean we've we've gone insane and i mean i've been on the view nasty um but i was talking to jay leno this weekend and uh he calls me up he's like we're I'm insane. I don't understand Jay Leno this weekend, and he calls me up.
He's like, you're not insane.

I don't understand.

And he said, he said, Glenn, I'm out.

He said, I take my fire truck.

He's got an old fire truck.

Take my fire truck out to the fires.

He said, because these firemen are eating, and they're working 15, 18 hours a day he said they need food and they're getting box lunches and he said i just thought it'd be nice to have one hot meal a day yeah he said so i bring my fire truck up and i you know bring all these he said anderson cooper comes up to me and says what are you doing here jay and he said you know these guys are eating you know sandwiches and i think one hot meal a day would be good so i'm bringing them hot? And he said, you know, these guys are eating, you know, sandwiches. And I think one hot meal a day would be good.
So I'm bringing them hot meal. He said, you know, that was twisted into.
He said that was twisted into Jay Leno takes on America's box lunches. What? He's like, what? He's like, we have lost our minds.
So stupid. It's crazy.'s so embarrassing and it's pathetic and that but that is why we're here today yeah that is why donald trump is back in office because they pushed us too far and i actually believe it took every bit of what has happened leading up to 2020 black lives matter george floyd all of the things uh how the democrats chose to run kamala's campaign how they chose to put her there in the first place um for people to get to the brink of disaster before realizing i don't think everybody realizes that though no i don't i think a lot more do oh yeah like i'm obviously or else we wouldn't be here not many are willing to say it out loud maybe um i think we were actually blessed by the lord that he didn't win in 2020 right totally agree because it would have just been oh my god four more years of this crazy person instead of going oh he's not that bad because look what these people did right not just allowed to happen, did to us.
And it was intentional. And they didn't think that we would smarten up in time.
Why would they think that? Look at how we lined up and went and got that shot just like I did. So why would they think that we would be like, oh, oh, oh.
Why would they think that after what they did to the election in 2020? I have always been an election denier. I don't care.

You can tell me what you want.

I've seen enough videos.

I'm not an idiot.

And I'm choosing to see what's in front of me instead of ignoring it,

or at least choosing to say it.

It took every bit of this crap for us to get him,

get to where we are today and to get him back in office

and a better version as a president, as a being i think him first of all i think it hardened him i think when 2020 happened he was like and i said to him i talked to him right after the election uh and i said mr president i don't have any proof but you'll never convince me that that was fair

but i don't have any proof that what was fair that the election 2020 yeah okay um uh i said but you know uh i'm sorry for everything that you've gone through and he he just really had a hard time with that however in time he i think he just started to catalog okay what happened here he had no time to think what happened what didn't i know you notice he doesn't have his family as the only people around him this time yeah he knows now who i can trust he had no one he could trust so he started catalyzing and then when they started

coming after him and his family the first time i talked to him when they first went after uh his children i think it was his son or maybe it was ivanka and uh ivana and she said uh or he said to me. They went after my effing children.
And I saw real anger from him for the first time. However, he then had to go through court and everything else.
And by the time he gets up to the assassination attempt, he's not that way anymore. He's not that way.
And then the assassination attempt happened, and I think that was, I know it was, that was a God moment. It was.
And it humbled him. Instead of becoming angry, he just became even more determined.
Yeah. And look at him now.
He's back to the Donald Trump I knew in 2008 or 10 or you know what I mean? That wasn't running for politics. It wasn't running for president.
He was comfortable in his skin. He knew the game.
He knew what he was playing. It was a four year period that I think just took him absolutely by surprise.
Yeah. And look at him now.
He. I didn't know or course i didn't know i didn't know him or anyone around him at that time but i didn't think he was going to run again i thought you know what like this is a sad ending but what yeah i mean of what benefit is it you certainly aren't going to have more money in your pocket after he had less as we know nobody has come out with less except donald trump right but i i do think that he he had yeah he had to go through it he's more humble despite what people want to think because number one the assassination attempt and i feel his belief in god he speaks about it much more than he ever has in a real way beautifully like very genuine And I also think that from a business perspective almost i mean we all have to take a step back sometimes to be our best selves and during that time when he was ticked off and rightfully so because of what happened in 2020 and then of course coming after him you have more time to assess and how can i be better and i loved when he went went on Joe Rogan and talked about what he did wrong and how he admitted, like he admitted that he shouldn't have vetted people better and not hung on because he's loyal and he didn't have the right people.
To admit that is incredible. Remember when Barack Obama was asked, what did you do wrong? And he said nothing.
Nothing. Nothing.
How about Kam about kamala harris what would you change nothing like if you just show a little bit of humanity what would i do differently i believe people see that and go oh you know what else it is it's really good leadership when you can own your crap and then as an employee i i said in 30 years in the industry i've had maybe enough true leaders on one hand. People have the title, but they don't know how to lead.
When he did that, to me, it was a massive thing for me to see as I look up to our commander in chief, him and some others. And he acknowledged this is where I can do better.
And now we've seen it. And I also think that 48 hours after he was shot to be there in Milwaukee I guess it was and the shots that they took of him shots shouldn't use that word the close-ups of him sitting there while his 17 year old granddaughter had the courage to get on stage and speak about her grandfather you saw saw the tears in his eyes.
We are seeing the human side of Donald Trump. We saw it.
It's beautiful. We saw it that week, unlike I've ever seen it before in anyone else.
You could watch it happen in real time from the minute he was. And let me show you this.
to the ground, to the fight, to the next day,

you could see the hesitance in Milwaukee.

As he's walking, remember he walked out of that

and then he stopped?

I do too.

He stopped for a minute and you were like,

he's not the same man, not the same man.

He was not like, look at me.

He was absorbing it.

And he was, I think.

Yeah, he was also.

For the first time, he showed it.

Because he actually really likes people.

But you don't see that.

You know what I mean?

He's got such a.

Yeah.

But you could see how much the people meant to him. When he stood up, he told me, I saw that no one had run.
And they were, I don't tear up saying this. And they didn't run.
They were with me. That's when he cemented his relationship.
I'm never walking away from these people. And he always said to me that it was about the people that he had promised, not the big wigs, the people that came to his rallies that he promised he would fix.
That moment for him, I think he realized they're the ones I can trust. Yeah.
And I will fight for him. And then for him to come out, and he had that applause, you could see him, he was grateful.
He was grateful. People don't want to acknowledge his human side.
It's easier not to. It's easier to hate somebody when you only see the one thing.
I had never met him until a few months ago, you know, during the election, the campaign. And, you know, he's no different from us in the way that he wants to be liked, you know? Maybe it's not everything for him, obviously not, or else he would have never done this.
Certainly not again. Or he would have just acquiesced.
Just like everybody else. Yeah, just don't say those things.
Yes, just like everybody else. And I love that about him.
I love actually seeing that part because that means, oh, we have a little something more in common. I'm getting over that disease of being a pleaser and like trying to make people like me i give up like i can't i came from an alcoholic family and that was my role i was the little clown i was the little hey everything's okay everybody and uh i still fight that i still do yeah not strangely not on the air i got into radio when i was 13, and so I've told everything to this that I've never told to people.
I mean, my first wife, I came home one day after I talked about my mom's suicide, and it was a really traumatic moment for me, and I got home, and she said, your mother killed herself killed herself? I don't, I don't, this is different for me. Your wife didn't know? She didn't know.
I didn't even think about it at the time. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. Because your wife was listening.
She was listening and she was like, what, what, wait, what? And it's just, it's weird. So I don't have a problem saying hard things to it, but I have a hard time in real life.
I don't like confrontation. It's the alcoholic, you know, alcoholic in me.
I don't like confrontation. I was talking about that today, about Trump and his tariffs.
I think people, they want America first. They want to do the right thing.
They want the end of the war in the Ukraine. But the minute a leader stands up and says knock it off and sit

down and you too everybody gets uncomfortable well let's not do that that could cause

it's reagan saying those guys that's an evil empire yes you have to change the game you have

to and you you did that oh you did you changed the game no but you did i don't know i don't know if i did and it certainly wasn't my goal i know but you did and you i think you i think you still are um women's sports i mean what's been happening with women's sports and they're all saying i'm doing it to protect women and i honestly i don't even understand the mathematics that gets you there it's so stupid it's so stupid that this is even a conversation um and the hypocrisy in it is just so thick you know i eddie has do you think anyone is sincere in that well i i in in saying that men can be women and women can be men and it's totally cool and i don't i think that they yes but they're part of the mentally ill group okay that that group is growing yeah sadly but there's It is. But there's no other way.
Because these are the same people that said, follow the science, follow the science. And then I'm anti-science.
Right. You know, I was with.
And even today, because you speak out, you know, and say, hey, this obviously. The record is clear on the science that just happened.
Yes. And they still will say that was science and you were wrong.
and i wanted to kill everybody around me by not being vaccinated exactly i do think it's a people have mental issues and or just absolutely refuse to acknowledge something that might make them look like they're more in the middle on something which again it's this there's very few issues that are black and white and this is right um i i think the the reason one of the reasons i keep speaking up number one yes because these young women um but also when i was at espn i i was part of espn w which i love w for women and that and it was an annual like conference retreat summit every year i think starting in 2010 and I was the original host for 11 straight years 10 or 11 straight years um until this year that year in 2021 when I when I spoke up and it's all the strongest women and athletes and executives from all different corporations whether it's Lululemon or Nike like like Gatorade, all over the place. And the silence that we continue to see here, you can't hear it because they're silent, is mind-boggling and disgusting to me.
All these women who stand up there and preach pro-women, pro-this, pro-that. You don't do enough highlights on us.
You don't do enough this and that, then salaries. And now you're silent at the most obvious time.
Title IX is something we always talk about. Billie Jean King came to the conference several times.
I mean, she was right there in the middle of it. I was born in 1972.
That's the beginning of Title IX. And now they're willing to take this and allow it, and they're actually encouraging it, some, and i've said from day one with this if we just as women's sports casters came together and said okay there is room for everyone and we will figure this out because this is not about excluding anyone transgender but if we just stood up this would have ended but instead there's been one and a half people in the sports industry two people me and my friend samantha ponder who also got fired from espn last fall because she's a conservative and then we're silenced because of it and canceled and threatened and you're losing a door because we're standing up for women it's no different than covid to me they want to control they They're making money from this stuff.
And if we continue to stay quiet, there is blood on our hands. And I firmly believe that.
Oh, have you ever read? I'm trying to remember who wrote this. Back in the 50s, there was a book.
I think it's called Ordinary Men. And it was done by a researcher.
Some of the nazis were the best police officers of poland okay okay they were fair they were decent they were honorable and they quickly became the worst of the worst of the nazis okay and so this researcher went back and tried to figure out what the hell happened because it happened that fast. So fast.
And I'm doing horrible injustice to her theory, but it's absolutely right. One person said, do it or you're fired.
You're out. And they did it.
And then it just was a Rubicon. They just crossed it, and then they just had to continue to reinforce that they were on the right side, and it just got worse and worse and worse, and they could no longer see it.
Once they crossed the river, once they did that, it was over. And I feel like that's what we're doing again.
I mean, thank God not to that degree. But people have just crossed the river.
They've burned their families, burned people. They stood for things that no person in their right mind today would still be backing up.
But they can't go back. They feel like they can't go back and there's and i understand the fear in many ways i i have noticed though lately with all of these topics political cultural whatever um i think this is something i need to work on i have no more patience for people who live in fear i don't and i'm not saying that from a mean whatever perspective, but I think it comes from some personal stuff too,

where when you live in fear, I mean, I'll just say I'm divorced, you know,

I was married for 20 years and I wouldn't change a thing.

And I love what we've had and I have my three kids and I'm grateful.

I was shocked when you and I met.

At AmFest.

At AmFest with Charlie Kirk's thing. And I've known about you, but we'd never met.
Had we ever talked before? No. And I was so immediately impressed with your strength and the sense of you just know there's successful people are either total frauds or they just know who they are and that's why they're successful yeah um and i just was overwhelmed by that and then you started talking to me and putting little breadcrumbs out about you were afraid in a relationship you're afraid and it doesn't that doesn't equate yeah it doesn't work what have you ever talked about it are you willing to talk about that yeah what what was that what happened in my marriage yeah with you being afraid how how did that happen because you don't seem like a woman who's afraid.
Yeah, I'm not anymore. But why were you?

I was. how how did that happen because you don't seem like a woman who's afraid yeah i i'm not anymore but why were you what happened um very well intended i think uh only girl first child um i just the the pleaser in me just i wanted to make sure everybody around me was okay and happy and i come from an incredible and my parents i'm 52 my parents will be married 54 years this year as an interracial couple that got married 1971 wow where my mom's family or parents not family but parents disowned her for marrying a black man and all that they've been through.
They are my why, my strength, my everything along with my kids. And not but, but, and I, I just, I was that girl and I wanted to please and please the teachers and please my coaches and please everybody and make sure everybody's good.
And I married my first boyfriend, met him in college I was 20 and got married at 26 almost 27 and um yeah divorced at 47 so that's all I knew my whole adult life my whole life you know and um it was a again I say this I wouldn't I wouldn't change anything but it was um it was he was a stay-at-home dad and it was great for many years as my career you know continued to um and i had this i mean i was always i had guilt i had guilt for not being home as much as i wanted to be I had guilt for okay having being too successful at some point which which how did that make my husband feel um and he was going to go back to work when the baby got into first grade and never did and that's why we're here today etc um but What were you afraid of? I was afraid of was afraid of i just i don't know when i say everything i can't even think of how to summarize it because i was afraid that um if i wasn't home enough then i wouldn't be a good mother and my friends who all stayed home were judging me i was afraid that if i was too successful then it would make my husband feel smaller because he's the man and I'm very, very, very traditional. And I didn't, the whole role reversal, I didn't like anyway, but I was doing well.
So it's the right thing for the family. So I made myself smaller.
Oh my gosh. In every way to try to make sure everybody around me didn't feel like I thought I was all that on TV and all the things.
And then I was afraid to address the issues because I'm Catholic and we don't get divorced. You don't do that.
I was afraid of the judgment. I was afraid God would be mad at me.
The fear was everywhere. And then you're not enough racially, right? Because I'm not white and I'm not black.
And so then you have to choose. And if I say this, then I'll be too white.
If I say this, then I'll be too black. And then I'm different.
I'm not black enough because I have white hair. That like, it went everywhere.
And so then, okay, I'm doing well. And I was good at my job and I worked my butt off.
And everybody was happy. And then I had these things were happening in society where I'm like, that's wrong.
That's not okay. But if I say something, then I'll be too far over here.
And then I won't be liked by the left and people who look like me. So you just stay silent.
And then I would speak up. This makes my head hurt just in your head.
Do you see why? I hope I'm probably wearing my hair curly because it's just stay silent and and then and then if i then i would speak up this makes my head hurt because it's just everything but i i just it was smarter to stay quiet glenn so much smarter i'm from every perspective certainly for work financially i mean what i've lost financially is insane. But, God, it feels good to be true to myself in every way now.
And to realize that if I'm leading with my heart, if I'm doing it in what I believe is the right way, leading with kindness, but strength as well, man, if you don't like me, that's kind of on you. Because I'm actually a really nice person and loyal and supportive.
And if you don't like me because of my opinion, that's on you. It just took half a century to get there.
And that's really annoying. But now, because of all the people I was around, including my leaders and bosses and teammates and co-workers and peers and people in my personal life, which I've made kind of obvious here.
When you live in fear, I can't be around you because I need someone to continue to uplift me as well. Let's make a team.
We're going to do this together. And I shudder at the thought of what my life would look like if I had continued to live in that fear.
Whether it be with my opinions, standing up about what I thought was wrong with forcing someone to put a shot in their body that's an experimental, unproven shot. Or even if I had lived in fear of what everyone would think of me for making the decision to end my marriage and where I would be today.
Even though I have no idea what tomorrow is, I don't know what my professional life is going to turn out to be. I don't know if my little show is going to work.
I don't know if I'm going to get married again. I don't know if my kids are going to hate me or like me tomorrow.
It depends on how much I give them for spring break. I don't know, but'm okay with it and it's just I'm so grateful that God has allowed and it's all God has allowed me to like say trust that day in the shower when I saw the angel and the ugly brown marble like I feel like it was a turning point and I have trusted with every aspect of my life and the fear has gone away.
What a blessing to have been canceled 150 times, to have the, to have been embarrassed intentionally by my company intentionally. What a blessing to have lost all the, all the money that was right there on the table for me to take.
What a blessing for some family members to be like, she's a nut job, keep her away. What a blessing to have been called a coon, a sellout, other names I won't say.
People I thought were friends to go away and say yeah i'll i'll be friends with her don't put it on instagram don't show anybody that i'm having lunch with her i am i swear to you i'm so grateful for every moment because god has been there every step he always was i just wasn't willing to see it sorry that was way that was not soundbite length i'm very sorry no no um no more fear no more i think I think that's the most common

I think that's the most common, I think that's the most human thing that we all have in common is fear.

I know I was, you know, I am, I'm an alcoholic, but when I was a practicing alcoholic, it all came from the fear of, I don't want people to find out about this or who I am or I'm not sure I am any good. All of this crap.
And we're all just living in fear. And when we admit it and when we let others see it, two things happen, I think, at least it did in my life.
One, you find real people. You find people are coming up to you and going, I can't believe you did that, but thank you, right? And can we get some Kleenex? And the other thing is, you become the most powerful person on the planet.
Everybody is afraid of you. And they're afraid of you because they can't manipulate you.

They don't, you should be, and I think you probably are, the most predictable person in anyone's life because you're so clear on what's

true and you're not afraid to walk away.

That terrifies people.

It does. It's wonderful, isn't it? I mean, not terrifies people it does it's wonderful isn't it i mean

not the terrifying them but it's wonderful it is and i never knew and every time i've shared a little bit probably started in like 2018 after the first time i got canceled in 2017 Every time I did, every time I shared something, thank you. She did a great job on my makeup today too.
Goodness gracious. You'll let me know if it sticks to my face.
Every single time I've opened up about anything personally, which I was afraid to, you try to protect your kids, try to protect you know I still try to believe it or not um professionally about the decision to stand up and sue the employer that I loved um every time I have received such a gift and one response from somebody on social media on an email at, at an airport, in a women's restroom, at a restaurant. The number of people now who come up to me, grown men in tears, thanking me because they're afraid to say something about women's sports and keeping men out of them for their daughters.
It has overwhelmed me. And that's what I'm trying to do on my little show as well.
It's like every time we open up, not only are we helping ourselves, we're helping others. And they say, oh my gosh, this person that looks like they have it all together and on TV and famous and money and all that.
They're going through that too.

So I now believe that like, it is what it is.

I don't even care.

Think I'm a loser because I cry too much.

But you're with me.

Exactly.

But like, we are helping others

just by being true to ourselves.

And that is a gift.

And I know that there's some strength in that. But to me, the credit has to go back to my faith.
Oh, I wouldn't have done it without faith. No way.
And what you have chosen to overcome and address, whether it's right here or in any other way, that's the win. And I actually think that that's how we all heal and recover as a society as we stop trying to be so damn perfect and keep it all together and be so like no i mean do you see this hair like there are so many imperfections here that now i just embrace them stop talking about your beautiful hair okay look at mine look at mine then look at yours stop naturally mine is the same color as yours believe me no 100 i'll show you later the roots are back here but but i i'm i'm so great this is what i said to my kids um whether it be speaking up standing up for yourself or in relationships please don't waste my pain please take my crap and use it and be better and smarter and wiser and fearless and i'm so glad and glenn the day before the day before my lawsuit dropped in april of 2022 i spoke to each of my kids separately to say, this is what's happening tomorrow.
One was in college and then two were in high school. And I just want you to know that this is probably gonna be ugly.
I don't want you to defend me. This is about free speech.
And that's why I'm doing this. You and I have so much in common.
I had the same conversation with my kids. With my God.
Like I just didn't want,

I didn't want them to feel the need to stay,

to defend me because it does get old.

And teachers and coaches and other parents would say things to my kids.

And I was like,

tell them to talk to your mother.

And that's when,

that's when the ugliest age will come out because you touch my kid.

I will cut you.

I will hurt you and I'll go to prison for you.

But I said,

don't defend me.

Just remind people that everybody has a right to their own opinion and diversity of thought. That's all you have to say.
And I said, but I'm sorry for what is to come because I know it's going to be ugly, but just know I cannot be quiet anymore. And I'm so sorry, but I love you.
And do you know, each of them received it differently. My son, who's in the middle, I always say between my two crazy daughters, my saint son, who's like, oh boy, he's going to be the best partner someday.
My son stopped what he was doing and he looked at me and he said, Mom, it's about time you stood up for yourself. He was 17.
I thought I was protecting my kids this whole time by staying quiet. And in the meantime, what did they see? They saw me being quiet and afraid and not true to myself and small.
And so I'm teaching that. We're teaching our kids to be strong and to do all those things.
But what example are we showing them? The opposite. Shame on me me so i knew at that moment that even if disney won hello david versus goliath they could bleed me dry in five minutes one thing they do well is litigate very good very well even if they won i actually just won because my kid they saw me saying enough i knew my career there was going to be over when you sue your company it's over and by the way I was still on air for 16 months after that lawsuit dropped so I would sue them while on their screen every single day and it was so scary every day to walk in there and do those live shows.
But my kids saw their mom, supporting them, supporting everybody and fighting. And so I didn't know at that point that I'm here for more on this earth to be their mama, even when I drive them crazy, which is a lot.
And to use my voice, I knew I was done at ESPN.

I didn't know what was next, but to help others who also lived in fear.

And I know now that that's why God has me here.

I'm going to give you a list of people, and you tell me what they have in common.

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We go back to 1971, your parents.

Right over here in the dark, that's the Archie Bunker set. Right over here in the dark.

That's the Archie Bunker set.

That's all in the family.

I love the music.

That was the first one to really deal with interracial.

I mean, 1971, your parents were ahead, way ahead.

Your dad was, if I'm not mistaken,

the first black varsity football player, right player at West Point. Yes, sir.
Again, I'm trying to balance this. That wasn't fear.
That was not fear. how did you how did they influence you

or how did you miss that epic stance from them without fear? Gosh, I don't mean to make you. No.
I love this. Yeah.
How did I, because they pushed through the fear, but talking about, you're just talking about, I taught my children. I think I can teach my children and they can learn from my example, but I don't think they actually learn until they face their fire.
Yes. You know what I mean? So is that the same with you? Cause your parents faced fire.
You had to, as a young kid, the white mom, black faced fire you had to as a young kid the white mom black dad you had to be the odd person out in school how how did you what happened there what happened was the environment in which i grew up was beautiful as an army kid, military. It was a safe space.
There was a lot of kids who looked like me. There were so many interracial marriages in the military, if you think about it.
And everywhere you went in the world, and I lived in four countries by the time I was 11 years old. Everywhere you went, there were kids who knew what it was like to move and to start over and to, you know, okay, now I have to find new friends on the playground and then on your sports teams, etc.
And so it was the most diverse upbringing because racially and all that, but it was a bubble because we all took care of each other there. And so then my senior year of high school, the Army moved us from Fort Carson, Colorado, Colorado Springs, to Fort Benjamin Harrison outside of Indianapolis.
And it was my senior year of high school. And there was no school.
It was a small Army post, which is now a state park. It's no longer.
With the downsizing of the military in the 90s it changed and so i went to um a public school there in a non-military town and i of 1800 students at carmel high school i was the only black student um i say biracial of course but yeah the only one and so that was my first time feeling different was as a in high school, not all those years leading up to it. And so I'd been protected and also protected.
Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, in hindsight, you know, it was my first experience with racism. Did you know that it was out there? No.
But just not? No, I mean, yes, I guess, but there was know it was a different world i grew up in a time i grew up in a time i grew up in seattle and i think there were like four black people at the time so i didn't i couldn't relate to the south i couldn't relate to what what that was it just seemed like a distant kind of right you know what i mean yeah so when i moved back east and i start seeing oh oh oh there's a real there's a real split here you know what i mean first time i went south and i felt like i was i stopped i remember stopping from gas for gas and i felt like i was in deliverance and i'm filling up gas and this uh guy says those are yankee plates and i'm like oh dear god they're gonna eat me and i think they have slaves i don't know what's happening here i mean it was just you know different world so you kind of had the same uh yeah because i was so protected with the diversity yes yes yeah it was again it was beautiful it was perfect in my mind and then one day i was walking to class and um was surrounded by a group of boys uh who i one of them i thought was my friend and um n-word um go back to africa look like a gorilla, go back, like just the ugliest moment of my life up to that point. What year was that? 1990, senior of high school, 89, 90.
Yeah. Wow.
So, I mean, other people are like, yeah, dumb ass, this is how it is in the real world. And I was like, well, it's never what I experienced.
And that changed me. And then I went home and, I mean, they cornered me and it was the worst.
Oh, my gosh. And I escaped and ran to class.
And, I mean, they weren't going to touch me, but it was verbal. And so I got home that day from school and told my mom.
My dad was out of town with military. And we went into school the next day to talk to the principal.
And he basically, he looked at me and my mom and said, I don't believe you. It didn't happen.
He didn't believe that it happened. He thought we were making it up.
So that changed me. My poor mother, who was, you know, I had no reason to make that and i mean i named names and they did nothing and so a couple weeks later i remember i i was walking around school it did change me and i had my eyes on the ground i was no longer this kind of bubbly like and this woman tapped me on the shoulder a teacher and she pulled me into her classroom her name was Agnes Kam.
She was the German teacher. I didn't take German.
She knew who I was. I stood out, I guess.
And she said, I want you to know that I heard what happened. And I'm so sorry.
And she said, but look at me. She goes, you are doing more for Carmel High School than we can ever do for you just by being here.
Don't let this affect you. I don't know if I ever saw her again, but I remember that verbatim.
And just by staying there, just by being in the classroom and being someone that looked a little different from all of these kids a rich white suburb north of Indianapolis. By the way, 90% of them were awesome.
This is not a referendum on the town. That experience though, and told I was a liar by the principal, did change my life.
But that was, I think, the beginning of realizing, okay, you can be different and still be okay and still have friends and still, you know, and then on to college and then through my career.

And at times when mom and dad, you know, the career wasn't going well or the bosses were awful, no leadership.

My parents would say, okay, you can't control them.

You can control your reaction.

When I was little, my two younger brothers we had to memorize part of the cadet prayer that my dad had to recite a hundred thousand times while at west point and this prayer eventually made me fearless say it helped me to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong and never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be one every part of that that meant nothing as a kid saved me as an adult through all the stupid drama at espn and disney through my marriage through every day if you're at the grocery store and you're in a rush do you want to put the cart back but it's the right thing put the cart back right it's a harder right when you're in a rush sounds stupid and to not ever be content with a half truth when the whole truth can be one i mean i had no choice at some at some point. If I'd been reciting this and then made my kids memorize it, harder right.
The harder right was what? Was to say, no, Disney, no, ESPN. You are hypocrites.
And this is not fair. And I have other friends who feel the way I do but would never say it

because of their maybe they're smarter than me for staying silent but the harder right is what is to stand up even though it cost me everything literally and figuratively the harder right is to have that conversation with a friend the harder right is in your relationships to be the example for your kids. And if I'm telling my daughters and my son, you listen to this and don't stay comfortable because you think that's what everybody else wants.
And then I'm not gonna, like if I say that, but don't live it, why would my kids ever then become fearless? It's the harder right. And it sucks sometimes.
Because we know what it is. Like, in here, we all know what the right thing is.
It's just easier to ignore it and to not tell the whole truth. I'm the whitest white guy you've ever met.
And I remember when Barack Obama became president. I think there is times, and even the, the, I think the intent of a lot of people that were involved in BLM, not the crazies, not the socialists, not the Marxists, but the people who are actually marching going, there's a problem here.
I thought that was so healthy. And I cannot relate in 1990 that somebody would have said that to you.
And that might seem like a distant past to some, but it wasn't that long ago. And somehow or another, I think it's just because it became politics.
This is the kind of conversation that people need to have, where you're actually hearing one another and sharing experiences that the other people, I can't relate to, but we don't have these conversations very often. And have we passed the point of being able to, or are we coming,

have we just taken a long circle back to where maybe we were getting to in the early 2000s?

And maybe it's just my point of view,

because I thought we were not perfect by any stretch.

There is racism.

There was and there still is, and it's real. And there always real and there always will be always will be always will opposition in all things um but i felt like we were getting better and then all of a sudden i felt like because it became so political like everybody just built up walls and we're not going there are are we getting back to a point to where maybe we can have a real dialogue and actually grow from here i think so i have hope but i'm an eternal optimist and glass half full always i do think so i i was so sad at how socially and culturally things, I think, got worse under Barack Obama.
For a myriad of reasons. Yeah, I think we can go back and look at when things changed and when he was, you know, in power.
I thought it would be, listen, to me, I did not vote for him.

I voted for John McCain.

And I didn't vote for him in 2012 either.

But in 2008, I was excited.

I didn't vote for him.

But number one, he's the commander in chief.

That's how I was raised, military kid,

my dad's West Point, retired colonel.

Absolutely, I support you.

And supported Joe Biden for that reason too.

If the president wins with making Americaica great before that was a thing then we all win like of course you support your commander chief and that's how i was raised with my father um but in general like i understood i understood why so many people certainly people of color were so excited about Barackack obama sure to me it wasn't about race though because i was thrilled to see by the way i thought it was racial i thought it was me i remember saying this on the air after he won because i i wasn't a fan of him because i think he was a marxist totally he is but um but i remember saying he has the opportunity to transcend race. You know what I mean? To be able to say none of that matters.
Yes. And none of that was done.
None of that was done. And to me, it was beautiful to see that.
Yes. On the stage in Chicago with his wife and daughters on that night.
Like beautiful in so many ways. To me, he was just the that's all like it's not about black white asian female i don't care i it's i'm not voting for that reason actually content of character versus color of skin and what you stand for i guess it again is it it only matters when it's convenient for you like i don't know my grandmother at the time was in her late 80s my dad's mom's she's she was black i mean late 80s maybe 90 years old and i remember her crying like i i didn't like that he won but i respected that for a 90 year old black woman who was born in 1920 who what she witnessed so i get it 100 um he divided instead and then it continued and even at the very end of this last um political camp the campaign with Trump and Kamala even at what did he say to black men at the end he's scolding them for not voting for her because she's a sister she's one of us what the divisiveness continued and it was intentional instead of saying you know just because i'm black doesn't mean that we think alike or wait a minute then you're the racist if you think just that this dictates how we feel or should feel what we should be doing and i do think that we're getting back there in some ways having the conversation remembering everybody has.
And to me, our opinions are based on what? Our own personal experiences. So you can't tell me and I can't tell you because you don't know me and I don't know you in that way.
Your wife, your first wife, didn't know that about your mother. I mean, my goodness.
So to judge is so close-minded and there's such an obvious lack of tolerance and acceptance and true diversity of thought. Your snacking routine can get a little dull.
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See remixyogurt.com. But is there a place to where tolerance becomes a danger for instance i've never had a problem you want to you want to transgender you want to do i don't care it's not my life it's your life i don't care that's i think one of the best things about Americans is live your life.

I'll live my life. I don't care.
Yeah, I don't care. But because we are tolerant of people saying, no, that's a female.
I'm sorry, it is a dude. You can't follow the science.
You can't change that. so you know you look at this and they try to make people try to make you feel bigoted when you're like no no no i i i it's not about them it's about my daughter and my friend's daughters should there be a transgender league i mean i don't even know what i mean like what's the solution here what's the solution yeah um first of all as far as the tolerance i say say what you want do what you want great identify how you want and there's rules and there's rules in society based on that You know, I mean, I like it when people say, oh, OK, I'm a I'm a billionaire then.
Go ahead and believe that. But have you have you seen her checking account? Right.
Probably not. Like I think sadly, it's not going to happen.
I think that in sports in particular, first of all, it's fascinating that it's only happening going one direction are there women trying to go play on the men's volleyball team in college no it's only going one way because we know that it's not gonna it's impossible like it's just not so women own everything are in everything and that includes like right now apparently in the, right? Okay. You can't compete on the same team, but you can still be in women's spaces and women's locker rooms.
You can still, you still get the benefit, which means you can take scholarships that are supposed to go to women if you identify as a woman. So let's finish the deal, close the book on that, and make it all women all the time there.
Because we know that there are basic scientific differences. And over here, it's open.
Open category. Men plus open.
Do whatever you want. But if you were born as a male, you are a male.
One of the problems right now with the NCAA is proof of male, female is your birth certificate. Well, I believe in 44 states you can change your birth certificate.
So that's a problem, too. It's got to be shored up.
DNA test. They were talking about where you're going to have people having to check people's, you know, pants.
No, we just do a DNA test. It's so simple.
It's really so simple. If we could do it that quickly, you know, in a drive up parking lot, shove it up to my brain to let me know if I have COVID.
Like, we can do this and it's actually more simple. So to me, that's the solution.
And I will never accept people saying that we are anti this, anti trans, anti gay. No, no, no.
I'm not anti anything. I'm actually pro-woman.
Number one, first and foremost, which is what you've been telling me, all the feminists out there who are sitting on their damn hands continuously, all the Democrats that voted against the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act recently. Shame, shame, shame on you.
Women, these female politicians who continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths. So that's the solution.
Female here, male plus open. And no more women will have to get hurt or lose scholarships.
I didn't even look at my nose. I have so many things to ask you and I didn't even get to them.
You are truly one of my favorite people in the world. I just love you.
I just think you are amazing. Thank you so much for coming.
I don't know that you know what that means to me. Thank you for always allowing everyone to just be true to themselves.
People like you or Y have hope. You've been doing this a long time and you have evolved but not changed that part of you.
And that is what makes America great. That's why we're going to be okay.
I have to believe that. Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.