Best of the Program | Guests: Jason Whitlock & Jeremiah Johnston | 3/28/24

and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other.

When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a four-litre jug.

When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

Oh, come on.

They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia Trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip.

Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.

Whatever.

You were made to outdo your holidays.

We were made to help organize the competition.

Expedia, made to travel.

Welcome to the podcast.

We have Beliefs TV's own Jason Whitlock on today.

Jeremiah Johnson returns to talk about kind of an important weekend, if you happen to be a person of faith.

Also, Pat Gray joins us and Gabe Kaminski to talk about a new George Soros investigation.

Interesting, as you'll hear, Glenn

perhaps falls asleep in the middle of the Gabe Kaminski interview.

I mean, I don't know.

Let's see if we can wake Glenn up now for the commercial before we get to the podcast.

Glenn!

Glenn!

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But not every situation is like that.

And it would be, it would really be good if you didn't end up, you know, on trial someday in front of 12 because of six.

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Think, what do I do that I could protect my family and not kill somebody unless I have to?

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You're listening to

the best of the glenbeck program.

Welcome to the glenbeck program for blending here.

I think I'm coming home.

Maybe tomorrow.

Yesterday, I told you that we were up at the ranch and I have a broadcast barn.

And I walk, you know, in the middle of the night, early, early in the morning,

completely dark, and I walk from the ranch house to the barn to do the broadcast.

And yesterday, I had the door open, and Jamie, the engineer, was sitting in here with me, and we heard like

and then all these birds fly up.

It was a weird something.

And I said, I looked at him and I said, what the heck is that?

He said, I don't know.

Birds and

something getting killed or something.

I don't know.

And so

we just kind of dismissed it.

And about five minutes later, I walked out of the broadcast barn and,

you know, that purr that cats do, except it was like really low.

It was like,

and the birds, all of a sudden, the birds out of this bush just like

lit off and then that kind of low growl.

And I backed back into the broadcast part.

And I went, I think, here, kitty, kitty, kitty, I think there's a mountain lion out there.

Yesterday, after the show, one of the guys here in town that runs a country store,

Jamie went down, he was having lunch, and he was talking to the guys there.

And he said, Yeah, we think we found a really big mountain lion that may be stalking us.

And the guy said, oh, yeah, there was a photographer, a wildlife photographer that just came down just, I guess, a couple of weeks ago and had been tracking this mountain lion of unusual size.

and tracked it to the ranch and went down to the store and was like, how do I get permission to get onto this ranch to continue tracking him?

So we have, I know it's like the fire swamps, but we have a cat of unusual size.

And

I think I'm going to come home.

I kind of, you know,

as much as I like the mountains and everything, you know, Pat, but the giant is so catful this time of year.

He should really enjoy the natural beauty of the outdoors,

you know.

And those of us with broadcast barns, I have a hard time leaving mine.

Yeah, I do.

Shut up.

I do.

I got to tell you, man,

Armadillos usually prowl around my broadcast barn.

I know.

Yeah, that's kind of a good thing.

I got to tell you, you know, we have all been talking about we got to be prepared.

We got to be able to, you know, we got to be able to amputate legs if we have to without any medicine.

You know,

I don't want to live in that world.

I don't want to live in that world.

I mean, a cat, a cat.

We were driving home late, late last night, and Tanya had flown in, and I had just flown in.

I gave a speech up in Boise, Idaho.

And so I had just flown back and it's about midnight last night.

And

as we're driving in,

one of the guys who knows apparently about cats said, yeah,

they'll stalk you.

If they know there are humans around and they're hungry, they'll lay in wait and they'll stalk you.

And I'm like,

Is it too late to get back on the plane?

Can we just go home?

I'd just rather worry about an angry mob.

Yeah, that's frightening.

I'd rather deal with that.

It is.

It's terrifying.

There's been something that's happened.

There's a convergence lately of conservative thought and this,

I don't know, natural struggle, right?

Like where like, you know, I'm going to get up and I'm going to take a cold shower every day or I'm going to do a cold plunge in the morning.

And like there's, there's a lot I like about that, but I don't like it in reality.

Like I like the thought of like we need to be challenged and pushed to our limits.

I don't want to be challenged or pushed to my limit, though.

Yeah, no, I think there's a big difference between a cold plunge

and a mountain lion.

Right.

I get that.

I was talking to somebody last night about what, about Theodore Roosevelt.

Theodore Roosevelt, I mean, you want to talk about a different age.

Theodore Roosevelt used to take his like six-year-old kids out into the woods and leave them there and go, find your way home.

You're going to be independent.

What?

Wow.

I know.

At 60, I don't want somebody to leave me alone in the woods and say, find your way home.

No, thank you.

No, no.

It's just a different world.

Even if the woods are on the outskirts of a target parking lot, I don't want to be left there.

No.

Nope.

You know, it could be Victoria Park.

And I don't want to be left there.

No, thank you.

All right.

Welcome to Pat Gray from Pat Gray Unleashed.

Pat, what's the big story of the day?

One of my favorite stories is that the Biden administration has allotted some money in the new Biden budget for the border, finally, the border security.

We're going to get some security there.

And they've allocated about $380 million to support enhanced border security

in

Egypt, Lebanon,

Oman,

Tunisia, and Jordan.

So

we got that going for us.

I will tell you, though, you've left something out.

He's double-dipped on Georgia,

Jordan, because there are two

pieces in the current legislation that just passed last week where Jordan gets extra money for their border, and then

in the second part of the bill, Jordan gets extra money with everybody else for their border.

Well, that's part of our Jordan first policy, which I think a lot of Americans are totally in love with.

Really?

Yeah.

We have a Jordan-first-first policy.

Yeah.

You know what's crazy?

Do you know why they're protecting their borders?

Jordans?

Because of the Palestinians.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

They don't want the Palestinians crossing their borders.

So we are supporting the Palestinians

and then going and supporting the countries that are trying to keep the Palestinians out.

Right.

Have you seen the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strait?

It's incredible.

It's impenetrable.

I mean, they really don't want Palestinians coming into their country.

Well, the only thing they don't have are those big,

those big catapults that take the flaming rocks.

Yeah, that's about it.

And I think those are on the web.

They're so medieval.

That's what they're going to use this $380 million for.

Rock catapults.

It's absolutely amazing.

And it's fascinating to me.

We're the only country on earth that is expected not to do anything at the border.

That it just, we have to put the welcome ad out.

No matter where you come from, no matter what you're doing here, no matter whether you're coming illegally with drugs or terrorism or whatever.

Come on in.

Yeah.

And we're certainly the only country on earth that is expected to do all of this for other nations.

Like,

you know,

I get, you know, if we were in a place of true prosperity where we had, you know, trillions of dollars in, you know, not in deficits, but, you know, the other way around where you have more money than you need.

I don't know this sounds crazy for any government official who might be listening, but it is theoretically possible to have more money than you've spent.

And if we had that, like maybe you'd understand, right?

Like people saying like, hey, you need to help out.

Now, I don't know.

That still wouldn't be our jobs, but when you are owing 20, 30, 40, 80, 100 trillion dollars for things you can't pay for, how can it possibly be part of the package that we're going to be doing this?

Yeah.

Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

I mean,

you could make the case that if we had, you know,

let's say $40 trillion

in, you know, surplus walking around money, you know, that was just sitting in a bank.

You could make the case, okay, let's help Jordan and Egypt and everything else.

But you couldn't make the case, let's help Jordan and

Egypt and everybody else with their borders and fund Hamas.

It would still be insane.

Yes.

Even if you had the money.

And we're doing it.

And we're doing it.

And we're doing it.

And we're at a point where our government is changing roles now with Israel.

Where now we're like letting these resolutions go through that condemn Israel.

They say that they can't go into certain areas.

We're now abstaining from those votes instead of opposing them as we always have.

And at the same time, we don't seem to do anything to criticize Egypt or Jordan for not helping in this situation.

Why do we make reports on it?

They're saying that

the people in the Gaza Strip are now down to Rafah, and they've got nowhere to go after this.

Well, whose fault is that?

That's the Arab country's fault because they could go there if you allowed it.

But they won't because every time they have opened their border, every country in the Middle East has had a revolution started by the Palestinians in those countries.

They know they don't want them there.

They know.

If it wasn't for Israel, the Middle East would declare the Palestinians an enemy of their states.

They just use them to destabilize and to hurt Israel.

They don't have any love for them at all.

None.

That's for sure.

None.

Well, Jordan occupies twice the Palestinian territory that Israel does.

You never hear about that.

Nobody ever talks about that.

Why aren't they to blame for occupying Palestinian territory?

It's just such a ridiculous situation.

And Israel is an impossible situation.

There's

some new things here that I want to talk to you about.

And I think it's very exciting.

You guys are going to be very excited.

In the next 12 to 24 months, Swift, you know, the Swift system of, you know, monetary exchanges that we kicked Russia out of, Swift is going to be launching a new central bank digital currency platform in the next 12 to 24 months.

Yeah,

yeah.

But I want to remind you,

the government has no intention of doing anything like this.

If anybody says anything about things like this, we've been told for a very long time that's a conspiracy theory.

Except now it's not.

It's just a story from Reuters.

Thank you, Pat.

Pat Cray, unleashed.

You can hear him every day on Blaze TV or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Now back to the podcast.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program, and we really want to thank you for listening.

Yesterday, we had

Jeremiah J.

Johnston on.

He is the author of a book called Body of Proof.

He's got his doctorate, but so do I.

So, I mean, what does that mean?

I'm a doctor of

humanities, and I didn't even study for the test, but he's also the president of Christian Thinkers Society, Prestonwood Baptist Church.

And we were talking yesterday about the Shroud of Turin,

which surprised me because

A lot of people, especially in the South, Baptists and

evangelicals,

they they don't necessarily hold to the traditions of the Catholic Church.

And I think we all have unbelievable pieces of the puzzle.

And one of those pieces, I think, is the Shroud of Turin.

And

I didn't know what to think about it until a few years ago.

But

he's writing a whole book on the Shroud of Turin, so we thought we would bring him back today.

This is the burial cloth

of Jesus Christ.

That's what it's purported to be, the burial cloth.

And it is a reverse negative.

It is almost like

when his body came back to life, this is the way I view it, his body came back to

life.

It's like the

burial cloth was like a film

and it printed in a burst of light, it printed the negative of his body in that cloth.

And nobody really knows how it was made if it is fake.

Jeremiah, welcome to the program.

Glenn, it's great to be back with you.

And I'm sure we have people that right now they're like Thomas Didymus.

Remember Thomas the twin that he said in John 20, verse 25, hey, look, you can say Jesus is God, good for you, but unless I see his nail-scarred hands, unless I can put my hand in his side, I won't believe.

Well, guess what?

We're going to do today on the Glenn Beck program.

You're going to be able to actually see the nail-pierced hands of Jesus.

Thanks be to the Shroud of Turin.

Okay, so explain the history of the Shroud of Turin, of where it came from.

When do we think that it first appeared?

Absolutely.

And so let's make sure we situate this because you bring up a really important point.

There has been a pejorative vibe towards the Shroud by anyone who isn't Catholic.

I want to remind our audience, the Catholic Church, they're the largest landowners on earth.

Did you know that?

They actually have a lot of land.

They have a lot of assets and property.

And guess what?

It turns out they have some excellent artifacts for the Christian faith.

C.S.

Lewis.

We've all heard of C.S.

Lewis.

I love Lewis.

I lived in Oxford for three years.

Glenn, I didn't know it until this year.

Jack Graham, my pastor, and I, went to Oxford on an inspirational summer trip, and then we went up and did some golfing at St.

Andrews.

We literally went to Lewis's home, and I look up on Lewis's home.

I don't know if you can see this, but for the the benefit of our audience, I'm holding it right next to our foot, my face.

I look up.

C.S.

Lewis kept a picture of the Shroud of Turin in his bedroom next to his bed where he slept.

And the reason he did that, Lewis said, I needed a reminder every morning and every evening that my God has a face.

And so we're not talking about something weird or French here.

Even C.S.

Lewis took it seriously.

So when did it first appear on the scene?

This is what's remarkable about it.

The Shroud of Turin goes back far beyond the radiocarbon dating.

And as you point, because I mean, some people hear Shroud, they're like, what is that?

As you pointed out, this is a burial garment for Jesus.

All four gospels say that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, two members of the Sanhedrin, remember if the Sanhedrin condemned a criminal to death, it was according to the Mishnah, the Sanhedrin had to bury the condemned criminal.

What do we see in the juridical procedure of Jesus?

Two members, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus.

they take Jesus and they wrap his body in a burial garment and they bury him in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb.

It's not like when you think of, you know, wrapping a body, you think of like a mummy.

Right.

But this is actually like a very long tablecloth, very, very long.

And

they laid it down, then put the body in, and then where the head is, they took and they pulled that, the rest of the fabric down to his feet.

So it is a double image of the back, then a space, and then the front.

Exactly.

This body.

Exactly.

And that is not unusual.

If you were into Jewish burial traditions, you would do that.

And you might say, oh, Glenn, Jeremiah, there's no way that a burial shroud could last for 2,000 years.

Give me a break.

Well, actually, when you are a student of history, you can see we even have a tar can dress linen shirt.

And guess what, Glenn?

It's 3,200 years older than the Shroud of Turin.

It's 5,000 years old.

So given the right set of circumstances, linen will last forever.

So you're exactly right.

They laid, and it's 14 feet long.

It's about four feet wide.

So longer than our studio table here at Mercury Studios.

And what's fascinating is something occurred.

And I have the top five reasons why I went from skeptic.

I mean, Glenn, I was a total skeptic until I went and wrote Body of Proof, did the video series for the Bible study body of proof in Jerusalem, went to the Shroud exhibit,

had private access, exhibited all, looked at all the artifacts, and then I came out with top five reasons that utterly took me from skeptic to total defender now of the Shroud.

So let's share those.

Number five,

let's do a countdown.

You like countdowns, Glenn?

The Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact of the archaeological world.

There's not a close second.

And the second thing I want to say is it's also the most lied about artifact in the archaeological world.

So we're not going to.

Okay, so wait,

let's start with the first one, which is the most studied.

How do you know that and what has been done to it?

Because I've read all the peer-reviewed journals, so you don't have to, Glenn.

There's been an amazing evidential history of the Shroud of Turin.

In 1978, the STURP team, this is the Stroud of Turin research project team, went to Italy.

They thought it'd be a free trip to Italy.

They were all having drinks in the lobby of the hotel, giggling that on the Catholic Church's dime, they were going to have a free trip to Italy.

They only needed two days to prove that it was a hoax.

And guess what?

Nobody was giggling two days later.

They had approximately 120 hours to examine this very ancient shroud, which has a very unique history.

I mean, Hitler tried to steal it.

They had to save it from Hitler's hands during World War II.

I mean, the history of the Shroud is just remarkable.

So these were not Bible scholars.

These were not, as far as I know,

outside of the priests that were kind of security overlooking the Shroud while it was being looked at.

These were all weapons scientists.

Barry Schwartz, who you interviewed, and I encourage everyone to go back and watch the Glenn Beck interview with Barry Schwartz.

He was a nominal Jew, totally, his only bias was he thought it was a hoax and a joke when he went there.

And now he's utterly convinced that it's not only not a hoax, because as we'll talk about in a minute,

you cannot, if it's a hoax, it's never been repeated.

He's convinced that it's an authentic burial shroud of Jesus.

So it's the most studied cross-disciplinary artifact in the world.

And

the 1970s, when Barry was part of this, as you said, they all went in as skeptics.

And I believe it came out at the time

that

it was possible, but the radiocarbon data was saying, no, it's like, you know, a thousand years later or something.

But something was wrong, and I don't remember what it was.

Maybe you do.

Barry said it was only until later when technology changed

that they realized, oh my gosh, this is that old.

Yeah.

And so 1978, you have the original research project, and they come out and what they say is it's not a hoax.

There's no pigment.

There's no ink.

There's no dye.

The shroud has survived three fires.

It's been doused in water twice.

If there was dye, if there was paint, it would have bled out.

It would have smeared.

So it's nothing.

And essentially they came out and said it's not a hoax.

We don't know what it is.

10 years later, 1988, and this is point number three in the countdown, which we'll get to, the 1988 radiocarbon dating was done.

So about 10 years after that original research project.

Okay.

And this is when all the headlines came out, Glenn, that said this is a total hoax.

The Carbon-14 dating dated it to the late 13th, early 14th century.

There's huge problems with that, and we'll discuss that.

Okay, so number four.

Number four, science today, and this is what really arrests my attention, cannot explain how the image is in the cloth.

Now, Glenn, you've seen the shroud.

I mean,

it's stunning.

The energy it would have taken.

i've never actually i've never actually seen it in person i was going to go to uh turin i wanted to go this summer to turin just to see it um because talking to barry schwartz has totally changed my mind on it um but you can't see it

yeah because it's it's protected it's under a vault they bring it out every every few years it's at st.

john the baptist cathedral in the piedmont district of northern italy as you say in turin italy by the way if you go to jerusalem there's an incredible shroud exhibit there that shows every aspect of the shroud.

But I'm talking not just scientists in general.

Rocket scientists, weapons scientists, chemical scientists cannot explain how the image is in the shroud.

If it was a forgery, if it was a hoax, it's never been able to be repeated.

I mean, this is unbelievable.

These aren't Bible theologians or commentators saying it.

They're scientists saying we cannot explain how there's an image.

And here's the fascinating thing, Glenn.

Do you know if you get closer than eight feet, the image vanishes?

You actually have to stand back from it about eight feet to be able to fully see the image.

It's very unique.

You're listening to the best of Glenn Beck.

Check out the full show podcast to listen to the rest of this interview.

Jason Whitlock is one of my favorite people and somebody that I really truly admire and I think is a great broadcaster.

And not necessarily for the show or his opinion or anything else, but I think he's a great broadcaster because he is a man searching for truth.

And that is the most exciting part of people's lives.

And it'll be the part of your life that when you do, if you've already done it, you remember it this way.

If you haven't done it, you will remember when you pushed yourself to figure out what you truly believe.

And I think Jason is in that portion of his life in many areas.

and most people don't share that.

And he shares it every day.

He is the Blaze TV host of Fearless, Jason Whitlock.

Hello, Jason.

How are you?

Glenn, awesome introduction.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

You bet.

And I want to talk to you about some of the things that you're going through right now and the things that you're discovering and things that you're doing this summer.

I'm going to be joining you on one of your events that I think is just so worthwhile.

But first, can I take you to the news that I have not been following, and I don't know if this is important or not.

P.

Diddy, I don't know what the hell is going on with him, but I'm hearing talk like he is the new Jeffrey Epstein.

Can you tell me this story?

Yeah, let me tell you why it's important for you and your audience.

And we unpacked this last week on my show, trying to get a broader perspective on what's going on with Diddy.

And it's about the music industry and it's about

the push for nihilism and how they have manipulated

our entire American culture to be more nihilistic.

And they've done it with music and hip-hop is at the forefront of that.

And so Diddy is someone of marginal talent who's been installed and who has been allowed to use the music industry to sexually compromise young people, celebrities, other entertainers, politicians,

or whatever.

But it's like this whole, part of the realization and understanding we have to come to is like everything in culture.

Tucker Carlson talked about this a couple of weeks ago about just like architecture and how

it's not the same as it used to be.

And so in all the arts, they're trying to push us towards a nihilistic worldview, and they've done that with hip-hop.

And P.

Diddy is one of the faces and most powerful people in hip-hop.

But again, as I expounded on, it's not just Diddy, it's like BlackRock and Vanguard.

They actually own the music industry and control the music industry.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

The investment houses of BlackRock and Vanguard, they own the music industry absolutely from Sony music group to every

they're the most invested in the music industry they're the most through Viacom they own VET MTV VH1

they're in control of the music industry and and they also own the majority the overwhelming majority of stock in the private prison industry.

I think the stock name is called CXW now.

It's called Cora Civic.

It used to be called Corrections Corporations of America.

And then they transitioned the name.

And so this whole hip-hop deal was about creating a culture where like prison is a rite of passage and corruption and criminality is just par built into the system and it feeds the prison system, the private prison industry, and it's exploded.

But more than anything, it's promoted a nihilistic view and a view that life really has no meaning

and it's disconnected us from our moral principles and religious principles that's what Diddy is the face of and that's why I'm glad he's getting his comeuppance and I'm I hope that they don't do a cover-up and not expose everyone involved because

And it's not just hip-hop.

Music has been headed this direction and pushing us a nihilistic direction for a long time.

And this needs to be discussed and exposed.

This isn't limited to black kids or the urban inner city.

The way they've pushed hip-hop and made it the most popular music in the world, and they've pushed it in sports and pushed it everywhere.

It's affecting everyone.

I have to tell you, they're doing it now to the last bastion of decency in entertainment, and that is in Nashville, country music.

It is going woke and ugly.

And, you know,

they have just

infested everything, and they're tearing it apart.

I mean, you listen to popular music now.

I mean, imagine the last time we went through this, you know, revolution kind of spirit with Marxism, it's back in the 60s.

And you had artists that were singing really uplifting stuff.

Some of it was garbage, but some some of it just, it was an empowering movement.

You listen to music now and it is disgusting.

It is all about, I mean, I challenge you to listen to especially hip-hop and

some popular music of that genre.

And I challenge you to find a song that isn't talking about somebody's butt or putting something in somebody's butt.

It's incredibly degrading.

Glenn, for someone like myself who's 56 and who grew up on RB music, RB music used to be a lot of romantic love songs.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't find in RB or hip-hop, love

is not remotely on the table.

No.

I mean, it just not, you go through the billboard, top 100.

Love, anything about love, not remotely on the table.

If you want to listen to music that promotes love a man and a woman, you got to go listen to music made in the 60s, 70s,

and 80s.

It's just disappeared.

This is intentional.

They've just removed love from the culture.

So, Jason,

what is Diddy accused of doing?

You know, drugging, raping.

young girls and young men,

sexually compromising and leveraging the entertainers that work for him,

employing a cleanup man named Fahid Muhammad, who, if you're familiar with the TV show Ray Donovan, and if you've ever watched that on Showtime,

this guy would go up and clean up the crimes that Diddy and/or any of his entertainers were involved in.

And there's these two lawsuits: one that he settled, but the second one with this Rodney Jones that he hasn't settled.

There's allegations of shootings and murders and things like that that have been cleaned up by this guy.

How does that happen?

How does that happen?

It's not my world, so I would only be speculating.

But yeah,

these are the types of allegations that have been going on.

And again, Diddy sexually compromising,

forcing his entertainers into having sex with him, with men, with women,

and then using his house and cameras everywhere in his house.

So when he would throw these parties, if there were celebrities or politicians or prominent entertainers there, he'd have everything recorded.

And so those people would be compromised.

And so, yeah, they're calling him the Jeffrey Epstein of the music industry.

And I don't think it's a bad label.

But again, this is...

Diddy comes from a compromised background.

His father was a drug dealer

in the 70s, who got busted and I think snitched on some other drug dealers and then got murdered when Diddy was just three years old.

And so what the rap music world really,

where they fish for talent, is in all these broken, compromised, dysfunctional homes.

And so Diddy...

likely sexually abused when he was a child

and obviously father murdered, didn't grow up in an ideal environment.

He'll do anything for money.

And that's why he gets installed and promoted and put in a position of power because he's easily controlled, because he comes from a background where the values just were instilled.

And again, this whole nihilistic view of the world and all the the the the breakdown of the nuclear family that they've pushed.

They they're destroying the family structure so that our kids are more vulnerable and will will be more easily seduced into wickedness and a lack of morality.

So last question, and then I got to take a quick break and then come back because I want to talk to you about your event.

But

why now?

Why has he gotten away with this for so long and now it's just coming out?

That's a great question, Glenn.

And I would.

My only explanation at this point is that I think we're in that time where

my biggest explanation is, yeah, my biggest explanation is that I don't think we fully recognized all the dominoes that Trump knocked over

just by saying fake news and making us like willing to question everything.

And what Trump has done is legitimize the so-called conspiracy theorists.

So now the public, I think, is more ready for the truth.

And people are, you know filing lawsuits.

And because there's independent media, and there's those of us that have had the scales taken off our eyes, we're willing to talk about it and expose it.

But, but it's again, I don't want to make too much of Trump, but he's really consequential in giving all of us the courage to say,

man, we got to look at things in an honest fashion.

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