Ep 205 | Texas Bishop Removed by Pope Francis Sets the Record Straight | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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It's not just true, however, in business and culture.

It is also true in churches.

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My guest today is here to sound the alarm.

In 2012, he was chosen by Pope Benedict XVI as the fourth bishop of the Diocese of Tyler, Texas.

Well, last November, he was asked to resign.

By the new Pope, Pope Francis.

He removed him.

The question is, why?

He wasn't ever given an answer.

Was he too political on his social media?

Were his criticisms of the pope out of line?

The Vatican is still silent, but he's here to tell his side of the story.

Today on the Glenbeck podcast, welcome Bishop Strickland.

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Thank you, Bishop, for coming in.

Sure.

Appreciate it.

Glad to be here.

So,

a lot of people don't know the story, don't have any idea even who you are.

I do.

A lot of people in Texas are very aware of you and around the country because you have been very outspoken on a few things, and then the Pope fired you.

So, let's start there.

Why were you fired?

Do you know yet?

Well, I think I know.

But you haven't been told.

Officially, no.

Nothing official, but

because I've spoken out and said the truth doesn't change, and there's really an agenda clearly from the Vatican and Pope Francis to say the truth has changed.

And I feel the obligation as

successor of the apostles in our Catholic faith to say no.

Scripture tells us clearly.

2,000 years of deposit of faith tells us,

actually,

there's some clear warnings that don't listen if they try to bring a new gospel.

The truth doesn't change.

That's the reason that I needed to be removed.

The word that was used in the letter, very brief letter, was

relieved.

You're relieved of your responsibility as Bishop of Tyler.

So are you,

but you're still a priest or a bishop?

Still a bishop.

Is it retired?

Yes,

that's basically the category I fall into, Bishop Emeritus or retired bishop of Tyler.

But this has come, I mean, there was

quite a bit of pushback and forth.

You were one of them.

Some people say this was one of the reasons why

you were retired,

is because you went out to Los Angeles when the Dodgers were holding the

perpetual Sisters of Mercy or whatever, and clearly mocking Christ, clearly mocking Catholics and nuns.

I'm not Catholic.

I was offended by that.

And while everybody has a right to free speech, for the Dodgers to endorse that, especially in the city of Angels,

was shocking.

And for you to show up, but I guess that was wrong because you didn't have permission.

That's not your area.

Well, interestingly, as you know, with working in the media,

Long before Dodger Stadium happened, I already knew that I was going to have this apostolic visitation.

With, I mean, the first part of June.

This happened later in June was when the Dodger Stadium, I forget the date, but I knew well before Dodger Stadium that I was already having a visitation.

People said, oh, he's getting a visitation because he went to Dodger Stadium.

So it wasn't accurate.

And certainly,

Me going to Dodger Stadium,

the Archbishop did know, Archbishop of Los Angeles, Archbishop Gomez.

I notified him that I had been asked to be there.

I didn't volunteer, but I was invited and I said, Yeah, I think somebody needs to go.

I didn't know if I would be the only bishop.

I didn't expect a large crowd, but I didn't know I would be the only one.

So, but so be it.

I guess that sort of

does

follow the narrative for why I was removed because I'm doing these things that are like, oh, that's not how we operate.

Well,

I believe as a successor of the apostles, we have to look back to the apostles.

That needs to be the model.

And they were bold.

They were.

And they got in trouble for it.

Most of them lost their lives.

So losing your position is far short of losing your life.

So

I really believe

that we as Catholics and we as

leaders of the Catholic Church, we need to operate differently.

That's the call that I felt.

It's been controversial.

It's gotten me in trouble.

But I feel

I'm in good company with the apostles, the original apostles, and many bishops through the ages that have said no to some of the agenda that's out there.

So let's go back, just spend a little bit on what truth is unchangeable.

Well, what we call the deposit of faith,

which I've been told you're talking too much about the deposit of faith, I don't think we're talking about it enough.

What is the deposit of faith?

Sacred scripture,

the magisterial teachings of the church documents through the ages.

The Catechism captures a lot of the deposit of faith, a lot of the writings of the early fathers that didn't become scripture, but were very well respected right now.

A lot of the foundations of your theology and faith.

What should you be talking about?

What is...

Well,

there's a big social agenda that

is encouraged to be more of the focus, which

certainly that comes from the deposit of faith.

It's guided by that, the values that should be there.

But I think we,

you know, I believe we need to return to, as I have said often,

we need to be first century Christians in the 21st century.

And a lot of that is being, you know, discounted or actually pushed back against.

It's like, oh, that's antiquated.

That's backward thinking.

What does that mean to be?

That's not to be

anti-modernity.

No.

Yeah.

No.

That's not.

I'm not anti-modernity.

Right.

But I am in favor of modernity being guided by those foundational principles

that are unchanging.

Correct.

God created us male and female.

I believe that those basics, I mean, a lot of people, ah, how antiquated you are.

But it's the building block of all life.

It is.

It's the building block.

It's how God put it together and that's how it works.

And trying to pretend that we're God and we can revamp everything,

it doesn't work long term.

It doesn't even work very long at all, but certainly not long term.

And that's, I guess that's the message I keep trying to bring, even though I am no longer a diocesan bishop.

I'm still a bishop.

I still have the same responsibility.

And I feel like I need to continue to speak the truth with

the greatest charity, I believe, is to speak the truth and to share with people.

There are a lot of confused people in the world today and a lot of confused Catholics.

But

cutting through the confusion is the truth.

We proclaim Jesus Christ.

We're still in our faith, we're still in the Christmas season.

I know Christmas is way back in the rearview mirror for most people.

We're looking to Valentine's Day, you know, that's the next event, next sales opportunity in our society.

But we're still in the Christmas season.

Jesus Christ is the light of the world, He's truth incarnate.

And really, Glenn, I have to say,

just from

my life as a man of faith,

my relationship with Jesus Christ, my knowledge of Him, my life with Him has deepened in the time that I've been a bishop.

And it's because of that, that I know it's because of that, that I have the strength to speak in opposition to powers that

many are not willing to speak against.

This is why people of faith, real faith, are so dangerous to authoritarians or anything else.

Because I know for a fact

I don't have to do this job anymore.

I don't want to do this job anymore.

I do it because I'm a man of faith and I believe people are called at a certain time for certain things.

And the only reason why I don't want to do it is because it's a nightmare.

It's a nightmare and it costs a lot.

You know, you know it.

Costs a lot.

But my faith is what gets me out of bed every day.

My faith is what

I feel as though,

no,

you never gave up on me.

I'm not going to stop doing what you asked me to do.

And what you asked me to do was just stand in place.

Just stand and go, nope, not true.

Don't hate you.

Don't want to destroy you.

Not true.

Yeah, absolutely.

And really, Glenn,

what you just said, I have heard countless people thanking me for my voice, my speaking up, because it supports them in saying exactly what you just said.

And if you look at the saints through the ages,

They are people who opposed, looked authority in the eye of their day and said, no, we're going to stay faithful to Jesus Christ.

And most of them.

Different controversies.

And most of them paid the ultimate price in the end.

They were not popular when they were alive.

But like you said, truth restores itself.

It has to.

Kipling wrote about the gods of the copybook headings.

It with terror and slaughter, the truth will return, unfortunately, because everything starts to shake apart.

Talk to me a little bit about

61%

of Catholics.

I'd like to see who they're saying are Catholics.

I grew up Catholic.

I was Catholic for a long time.

No, I wasn't.

No, I wasn't.

But 61% of Catholics agree with gay marriage.

Talk about that.

a bit.

Well,

you could talk about that a lot.

Part of that, and like you said, who are they talking to?

All of those questions come up.

But say, okay, take that at face value.

61% of Catholics believe that gay marriage is fine.

That means that just highlights the poor job of catechesis the church has done in my lifetime and beyond.

that people haven't been taught what the church teaches, because if they really know what the church teaches, they're either going to say, I reject that, and I'm no longer Catholic, so they're not going to fit into this survey, or they're going to say, no,

these fundamental principles, and as you said, Glenn, I mean, there are all kinds of accusations of hatred and bigotry,

phobias.

It's simply saying,

this is the truth of how God created us.

And the sexual questions all come down to very simple in Catholic teaching.

To be actively living a sexual relationship,

it's a very narrow path.

And does the world or the Catholic community live it?

Not very well.

But it's a narrow path of one man, one woman, married for life, committed for life, and open to children.

Those are the basic components of then

you are free to live a sexual relationship.

And from the Catholic Church's point of view, it's a beautiful expression of God working among us, a man and a woman committed

and open to children, open to life.

Filling time each.

All of those two.

And partnering with the Creator.

Yeah.

It's the only thing.

And all, I mean, if you take, again, going back to Scripture, Christ Christ says it's a narrow path.

And the world wants the wide, you know, 12-lane avenue saying, oh, you can get to God no matter what you do and however you want to live.

Christ says it's a narrow path.

And I think that's a good expression of

if you look at the sexual world we live in, which is oversexed.

And the church has been, you know, beat up through my lifetime, saying, oh, you're so down on sex.

But if you listen to Christ in that narrow path, then,

you know, how many ways is that violated on a daily basis on the planet?

It's just humanity is way off track as far as all of that.

So it is, it's hard, I think, for most people, especially Americans, I think,

because Americans will take it personally, where I think Europeans just don't care.

You know what I mean?

They don't care.

They've been, you know, France has been crazy for a very long time.

But I think where the change comes in America

is

Americans,

at least used to, kind of lead with their heart.

And so they see two people.

And it used to be that that's not a choice.

You were born that way.

And I know.

people who are gay and have struggled and didn't want to, you know what I mean?

They're like, I don't,

you know, back a few years ago,

it was pariah time.

You knew you couldn't live openly, et cetera.

Horrible, horrible.

So why would anyone other than a sadistic person choose that?

And so you have that compassion.

And so people are like, I don't want to judge you.

But there's a difference between the sacrament of marriage and me loving and having compassion to you.

Is that right?

Oh, absolutely.

And I think that you hear, I hear very often people go at me and say, oh,

you're judging.

We don't judge each other.

I mean, that's in scripture.

Ultimately, thankfully, that's up to God.

And God only knows what's truly in your hearts, what's in my heart.

We're obligated, I believe, that faith teaches us to get our hearts aligned with God's truth as fully as we can.

And we pray that we do that to the best of our ability, relying heavily on God's mercy,

but to acknowledge that that is how we're supposed to live.

So

any individual I mean, we all have failings.

I'm a sinner.

We all have things that are a challenge for us to overcome.

That, I believe, is the journey.

Christ says, deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me.

He says that.

That's directly from the gospel.

And we're not in a time where people want to deny themselves anything.

And even in the church, there's a tendency to avoid the cross.

And it's just like, skip one and two, and let's just follow Jesus.

It doesn't work that way.

Christ himself told us it doesn't work that way.

And out of the greatest compassion, I mean,

as you alluded to, Glenn,

thankfully,

we've moved away from a time of persecution and of really denigrating people for whatever their sinful inclination may be.

Have we?

Or has the sin changed?

Well, yeah.

You're sinful.

I'm sinful.

Persecute these.

Well, that's true.

We haven't grown and said, I mean, that's the the one thing that kills me.

For people who have been persecuted for so long, people who have hid in the closets, lost jobs on whispers, to then

cause people to lose their jobs on whispers is incredible to me.

I don't understand that disconnect.

You're absolutely right.

I stand corrected in that.

It's nuanced in that way.

That's the reality.

You're right.

When I was at the Vatican, I went to, I don't remember what the ceremony is where they appoint the new cardinals and

called a

consistory.

Okay.

And I was invited to attend, and I was there, and

Pope Benedict was the Pope.

And I learned so much.

watching and attending some of the things.

And I don't mean any offense.

This is in my church.

I think this is in all of our churches, so I'm not singling Catholics out.

But I stood there in a room with all these cardinals and all the new cardinals.

And it was a, it was like a, I don't know,

an hors d'oeuvre.

I don't want to say a cocktail party, but it was like an hors d'oeuvre evening and everybody was.

And

I was, I was standing with a few cardinals that were just so pious and just, you could just, they were screaming Christ, you know what I mean?

Humbled to be in their presence.

And we were talking, and

the guy who was,

I don't want to identify him, but he was very high up

and not a fan of the last Pope, walked in.

He was surrounded by politicians.

And he came in, and I swear to you, the room dropped 20 degrees.

And I looked at the guys and I said, who is that?

Just screamed evil.

Up at, it screamed evil to me.

And

they laughed and said, oh, you can feel that.

And I said, yeah, what's that?

Said, that's one of the leaders of the, they said there's this good versus evil kind of thing in the church.

And I think it's in all of our churches.

And they are

correct.

And they are, they are real forces trying to disrupt.

So when you say you were standing, you know, I can't say you were standing against the Pope, but when you were speaking out, were you speaking out about the Pope or that evil fight that's in all of our churches?

Well, I think it's the evil fight is absolutely what I'm focused on.

And as I've said to others,

To me, the best way I can support Pope Francis or whoever the Pope is at any given time.

The job of the Pope is guarding that deposit of faith, of keeping strong in Christ.

I mean just like St.

Peter who wavered, you know, denied, but ultimately became strong, returned to Rome and died in an upside-down cross.

Had a humility.

His Lord had died on a cross.

And that is, to me, the greatest way to support Pope Francis is to stand for the truth.

Because as I've acknowledged talking to others, as you're mentioning, there are evil forces pushing and prodding and tempting all of us.

I mean, Pope Francis and myself, all of us are being bombarded by these forces to say, oh, we've got to change this.

And so the best support to Pope Francis is to say, no, this truth doesn't change.

I will tell you, if I'm Satan,

I want every church to look like the United Methodist Church.

I want every church to abandon everything in the scripture and

do what feels good and is popular today.

You know, I want poetry readings, not readings from the scriptures.

And I think the people who are awake

are sensing for the first time, real for the first time in at least my life.

Evil is real.

It is real.

And it is,

it's ethereal.

It's just, it's connecting things together without phone calls.

It's just happening.

Yeah, it seeps into everything.

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Are we at a place in the church, not just yours, but church overall?

are we in a place where

we become Europe?

Or are we in a place

where

these may be the

days that

Christ has to return and correct?

Do we turn into Europe and just there's no faith anywhere?

Well, I think we are at that crossroads.

I see more and more people

being strengthened in their faith in the midst of all of this.

I mean, I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people.

Of course, if they're talking to me, it's in a certain category.

There's certainly some that would not let me in the room.

But as I talk to people, I think people that are true believers, I think there's a strengthening there.

And really, Glenn, I would say it crosses the denominational line.

Oh, it does.

I mean, denominations are not of Christ and are not of God.

I mean, I believe he established a church that is the Catholic church and that ultimately following Jesus Christ will bring us to his truth.

Correct.

But

as you will, I mean, those 61%, if that's accurate, That's a lot of Catholics who don't know what being Catholic really means.

And there are others that aren't Catholic, but know very strongly what this truth is, that Jesus Christ is the face of truth.

He's truth incarnate.

He's the one we look to.

That's why as a Catholic priest and now bishop,

the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, for me,

he's there.

He's present.

We see Christ and certainly veil under

bread, the consecrated bread, but that's what he gave us.

That is our faith that he's really present there.

And so

he is the one that has to be the principle of unity that brings us all together.

And I see that happening across, I mean, there are Catholics that aren't really being of Christ.

Well, and there are others that are that aren't Catholic.

So it's

the thing about Christ is everybody focuses on his compassion.

And he was compassionate.

He hung out with the sinners.

Okay.

He didn't hate them.

He lived among them okay trying to bring them to the truth where now

you're shunned okay Christians do that non-Christians do that we shun that's not what Christ did yeah he lived among them he forgave them and he taught them

but what we only see now is this

That sweet Jesus.

And I think Jesus, if he were to return today,

would look each of us in the eye deeply and scare the crap out of us.

And not because he's being rude or mean,

but because he loves us.

It's truth.

You know what the truth is.

You know it, and you're not doing it.

I totally agree.

I mean,

the sort of nice Christ, certainly, I mean, he is beyond nice.

He is truth, he is love, he is joy, he is all the goodness of creation

in the person of the God-man that is Jesus Christ.

And if you listen to him in the gospel,

he speaks very clearly.

I mean, he's always going at it with the scribes and Pharisees.

If you read through all the gospels, I mean, not just as he's approaching his crucifixion, but really throughout his ministry.

I mean, there are many times where they're ready to push him off the cliff.

But isn't that, isn't that,

I mean, we've seen this with the Great Awakenings in America.

It doesn't come from within the church usually.

And if it does, those people are expelled.

And the church grows in its arrogance and its ways and justice becomes corrupt.

And somebody points it out and says, ah, this is not not what we started out as,

and they're usually expelled or killed.

But the great awakenings always happen outside of the church,

not inside,

always outside.

The churches generally follow.

You know, the evangelical churches,

you know, the Catholic Church has Rome to answer to, but Rome owns all of that property and everything else.

The Catholic Church does.

The evangelicals, if you're a pastor at a church, you're on the hook for that.

And

that's hard to say the truth

when you're on the hook for that.

And can I moderate somewhat to make sure I don't lose everybody?

Yeah.

You know, and I think that that temptation to moderate is

rampant and across the lines of any churches, any

gathering of people, because

you're afraid of losing some of your base.

You had, there was, let me see if I can get this right.

I think there were 10,000, it was crazy, 10,000 people, yeah, 10,000 Christians signed a petition thanking Pope Francis for removing you because they said you were a notoriously election-denying, QAnon-spreading, Francis bashing, vaccine-rejecting, LGBTQ hating, division-sowing, fire-breathing darling of right-wing Twitter, that your agenda went far beyond culture wars to full-blown Christian nationalism, even appearing at the Stop the Steel MAGA event.

Wow.

Is that who you are?

No, not me.

And

there are a lot of things that, as you know, they have to write the narrative.

I did not appear at a Stop the Steal MAGA event.

I offered a prayer via video for the people gathered there.

And if you listen to that prayer, I didn't get political.

I just prayed for the nation and for the people gathered.

But you can't pray with those people.

I don't know what QAnon really is.

Some people love to throw that at me.

I don't know what it is.

I certainly don't embrace whatever it is because I don't know what it is.

And really,

as you know better than I do, everything is politicized.

And there's a lot of politics in the Catholic Church, in all the churches.

Politics is woven into everything.

Yeah, when I speak up about the truth of the faith, that's all I care about, really.

I love this nation, and I'm deeply grieved by what I see happening to this nation.

I hear you, and I think we share that same grief.

We better wake up as a nation before it's too late, if it's not already too late.

But

what's interesting to me is

I think God will weep.

He will be saddened, just like I am with my children when they're going off doing something.

I'm like, don't do that.

It's going to hurt.

You're going to leave a mark.

Don't do that.

Please don't do that.

But these rights are his.

They're on loan to us, and we're supposed to protect them.

And if we can't protect those rights, he'll find another group of people to do it.

And we will.

Oh, my gosh, the answering to him on that is enormous.

Yeah, absolutely.

So my job isn't politics.

Thank goodness.

I wouldn't be any good at it.

But

as a successor of the apostles,

my mission is to try to stick with the truth.

I like the image of the plumb line of truth and just stay with that.

There are all kinds of forces pushing us every different direction, which you have to keep going back to.

And that plumb line is written by Jesus Christ.

He is truth incarnate.

I believe that's why God sent his son to show us.

Someone we could talk to, we could relate to, is still his divine son, fully God and fully man, like us in all things but sin.

We've got to look to him.

And that, I think, is what a lot of people, thankfully, are doing, returning to looking to him, renewing their faith.

Really, Glenn,

as a Catholic bishop, I encourage you to keep your heart open to that faith that you were, it sounds like you had raised in at one time.

Maybe not raised very well, but

it's the truth that I will die for.

Yeah.

And I would die for

your faith as well, because we have Christ in common and truth in common.

Let's talk, let me go back to that statement that had everything rolled in.

I guess you were also worse than Hitler and and everybody else.

Christian nationalism.

What's your understanding of Christian nationalism?

Honestly, Glenn, I don't have a lot of understanding of that, but

I don't...

Christian and nationalism, I'm not sure how that fits together.

I'm not, I don't understand it.

But

to me, you know, Jesus Christ, I mean, that's one of the blessings and, you know, the goodness goodness that I see in the Catholic Church.

Catholic means universal.

It's not a nation of this world.

It's not a nation or a denomination.

It's a way of living the truth that the Son of God has revealed to us.

And so

just hearing that, it sounds like Christian nationalism, there's a lot that I would reject in that concept.

I mean, I don't know what the concept is, but it doesn't sound right.

So Catholics are being blamed for a lot of it,

and especially, and I want to get into this, the Latin Mass.

And it is, I can see people

get wrapped up in it easily because.

What's wrong with loving your country?

What's wrong with living by Christ's principles and saying our country should do that?

That's different than what Christian nationalism really means.

And,

you know,

I would love to hear your thought on first and second citizenships.

My first citizenship is to the kingdom of God.

My second is to the United States.

I will do nothing to lose either passport, but if I have to lose one of them, I'm losing my second passport, second citizenship.

And

they have to fit together, but not by law.

You know, we don't fix America by a church coming in and saying,

you're going to do this.

It's by Christ living amongst us saying, don't do that.

Don't do that.

It's so much easier to live this way.

And it enriches everything.

Yeah.

Well, Glenn, you mentioned earlier

that as Americans, we tend to act from the heart.

And I think that I agree with that.

And that is what,

that's how I operate.

For me as a Catholic priest,

the heart that I look to is the sacred heart of Christ.

And that brings a whole different tone to everything we're trying to face.

For one thing,

the The arrogance that so easily creeps in to the human endeavor, we think we have it right.

We've got all the answers.

We're the fix.

Jesus Christ is the fix.

It's his sacred heart that we all have to be moved to.

And that's really the

ultimate work of any church is to bring people closer to Christ.

And to force that is

antithetical to anti-Christian.

It's antichrist.

If you look, and that's what, through all of this, what's helped, you know, keep me more or less sane.

I mean, obviously people think I'm insane, but I don't think I'm certifiable yet.

Stand in a little.

What keeps me sane is to look to Christ.

And that's what I tell people.

Look to Christ.

Look to his words in the gospel.

Look to his actions.

Look to what he does.

And he doesn't go on the attack.

But he doesn't compromise the truth either.

When people walk away, I mean, one of the the favorite passages for me as a kid growing up, my parents used to quote to us, St.

Peter, as some are leaving because of various reasons.

They say, oh, we can't take that, whether they're talking about the Eucharist or whatever message of Christ people leave as he's standing there.

Truth incarnate is in their presence, and people walk away because they're free to, and that's the human condition.

But

what

Peter's response is, Lord, to whom shall we go?

And there is nowhere to go except deeper into Christ.

So, yeah, I mean, as human beings, there are various aspects of the gospel that are challenging, that we may say if we were writing it, we'd have a different approach to what the truth is.

But part of it is that humble submission to what the truth is.

And I really believe that has to be guided.

It's heart-driven ultimately.

All the intellect in the world, I mean, I love to quote St.

Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest theologians of all time, and he said, It's all straw.

What he's written, the summa theologica,

is straw compared to the God that he's trying to point to.

And I think it's always that beyond us

reality that God calls us and calls us to share in.

I mean, the Catholic teaching, the code of canon law, I studied canon law of the Catholic Church and the last canon says it's all about the salvation of souls.

I think in many ways we've forgotten that.

And I've actually been ridiculed for saying, you know, you're talking about the salvation of souls.

We've got to worry about all these social ills and all these problems.

Really, they fix themselves when you save a soul.

Absolutely.

If we get things aligned to the salvation of every soul and the treasuring of every child of God as God treasures us, then

the ills and the wars and the violence and the bigotries, all of it begins to fall away.

I mean, that's what Christ kingdom is preaching.

And it's amazing to me how

you fight against it.

I mean, I'm a recovering alcoholic,

screwed up my life six ways to to Sunday and had a real hard time holding on to my sobriety.

And I remember being on my knees just begging, begging, begging, begging.

I can't do it.

I can't do it.

And

once

I accepted the atonement, once I had and I...

I actually accepted that gift and lived

a free man again from all my sins,

all my other problems went away.

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have a

desire to drink.

My friendships changed, my life completely changed, my, my job.

It is, in some ways, my job.

I don't know how, I don't think I could have done it without the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Because

that gift is so powerful

that

not only do I not want to, because I can never repay him, but I owe him for my life, not only do I not want to,

don't want to break that, I also don't have a desire to, you know, it's such a great gift.

It makes it so easy to go.

Nope.

Can't do that.

Yeah.

You need to think about it?

Nope.

I mean, it's, it's, it solves

everything.

It gives you that strength.

And really, Glenn, I think as through the years with all the controversies, COVID and all

the political division in the country and all the protests, I've often thought, I mean, looking at some crowd that's all

inflamed about one thing or another,

I wonder.

And it probably sounds sort of pietistic, but I mean it very deeply.

I wonder how many people in whatever this situation is

really

believe that they are loved by God in unimaginable ways.

You can't.

I truly think that that's a big part of our problem.

It is.

Young people that take their lives or just in desperate desolation.

Yes.

They don't know God's love.

And it's not some, you know, hallmark card.

It's deep and sacrificial and as gutsy as anything in the world.

I didn't understand it until I was 35.

It's a mature kind of love.

And when you unlock that,

then life makes sense.

And I celebrate people who don't need the atonement as much as I did or as, you know, went lost for so long.

But

it is the re, it is the only reason.

And when you are being told, you'll never make it without me, my party, my money, my philosophy, whatever it is,

you have

every

earmark of Satan

right there in that conversation.

Because Christ says, you only need me.

You're perfect.

You're great.

Just forget your sins, bring them to me.

We'll work it out.

You can do anything.

You walk on water.

You just keep your eyes on me.

With God, all things are boss.

Correct.

That's

in flesh, definitely.

And that's why I think we have

you cannot be

so embittered and so hopeless and

so angry and vengeful

if you know who God is.

You can, or at least the God of Judeo-Christian understanding.

Cono juelas crucientes and verdas qual niños les encantas.

Además delicios os trosos degranola nuesces y fruta que todos vana disfrutad.

Honey punches de votes para todos.

Tocal bener para sabermás.

Absolutely.

can we just i i want to talk politics for just a second um

john f kennedy was the first catholic and everybody said he'd answer to the pope and he didn't answer to the pope and he wasn't the perfect man by any stretch of the imagination but generally speaking i think he did a lot of good for

Catholics, image-wise, etc., etc.

And I have these people in my faith that I look at as they're politicians and I see that they're for

planned parenthood and I'm like, well, I know what my faith teaches.

How are you a member in good standing?

You have Nancy Pelosi.

You have the second Catholic president.

How do you think they're doing

representing the church?

Well, because they're very, it's not like they're subtle on it.

Yeah.

They are good Catholics.

I'll go back to the 61%.

They are

smack in the middle of that 61% that are poorly catechized, really.

And I really think that that, I mean, not to, you know, we all have a responsibility to seek the truth.

So there's a responsibility there.

But I've heard quotes from Nancy Pelosi say, well, the nuns taught me this.

She may, that may may be very honest, but if they've taught her that

what she's doing is being a faithful Catholic,

she was poorly catechized.

She didn't get the truth of the Catholic faith.

She got the, I mean, I'm 65, so I was a kid during the turmoil of 50 years ago, right after the Vatican, Second Vatican Council.

And it was very similar times.

I mean, very similar questions bouncing around.

And, you know, if that's when she was catechized, she didn't get the deposit of faith.

She got a distorted, sort of updated, you know, 70s, 80s version that left out a lot of the challenge and a lot of the beauty and a lot of the power of the Catholic faith.

Let's talk about the Latin Mass.

If I'm not mistaken, the Pope doesn't want the Latin Mass.

And,

well, I don't want the Latin Mass because I don't speak Latin.

But if I wanted to go to a Latin Mass, it'd be like I want to go to a Spanish-language Mass, you know, and I know it's a different tradition, but what's the problem with the Latin Mass?

Well, that's a complicated question, but I think

there is a push against the Latin Mass.

One

understanding that I have is because

there's a push against the truth.

There's a push against the supernatural elements that are there.

I mean, they're spoken of as backwards, and we have to update.

But understanding the Mass, really,

and I'm not, I'm certainly not an expert in the Latin Mass.

That door was locked until a few years ago for me.

I just celebrated a Latin Mass yesterday, and if you were there, you'd say, this guy's still got a lot to learn.

I mean, I have to look at, okay, what do I do next?

It's very different from the Novus Ordo.

But it's the same, it's the same.

You're still blessing the Eucharist.

Yeah, the consecration.

Yeah,

you zeroed in on the heart of it.

And that's the reason, I mean, one of the problems that the Vatican had with me was that I didn't implement Traditionis Custodis.

Which means what?

Which this document that said, kill the Latin Mass.

Oh.

Which a lot of bishops haven't.

But, you know, that was just one thing against me.

I mean, you know.

I know.

I read the list.

They're a horrible human being.

But

the Latin Mass.

and the novus or all the different forms of the Mass in whatever language, as long as bread and wine are brought brought to that altar and words of consecration are said, transubstantiation is the classic word in the Catholic faith.

We believe that bread and wine becomes the body and blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God, that you can read about in the Gospel, in whatever passage.

That's Him.

He's there.

He died, and He rose, and

His risen body is there on the altar, body and blood, soul and divinity.

I know that many people say, ah, that's ridiculous.

What are you talking about?

That is our Catholic faith.

The point of whatever form of the Mass, and this is what I've tried to push as bishop of Tyler and now just as bishop,

let's focus on

him.

He comes there and any valid form of the Mass.

And the Novus Ordo Mass is valid, the Latin Mass is valid, there are many different, there are like 22 different rites in the Catholic Church, and I'm no expert, I'm not well versed in most of those,

but

when transubstantiation happens, we need to bow, we need to fall to our knees, we need to know that the Lord of the universe is there on that altar or that simple, whatever it is, the grandest marble altar or or the simplest wooden, you know, just recently erupted altar, it,

that is Jesus Christ.

And so to me, the Latin Mass is an ancient power that, frankly,

powers that be in the world today are pushing against because it's too powerful.

It's too connected to the supernatural.

Every Mass is and should be deeply because Christ shows up.

If you really believe that, that bread and wine become his body and blood, soul, and divinity, then reverence, respect, looking at everything focusing on him.

And that's what the Latin Mass does.

Frankly, I believe, and I don't claim to know all the answers,

but my impression is we've got to get rid of the Latin Mass

because

it speaks of a supernatural power that's interfering with our agenda.

To me, that's what it comes down to.

There is a supernatural power there.

I mean, I've talked to

priests that are exorcists, and they will tell you there is a, I mean, every Mass, I mean, it's Christ.

Christ is that power.

But the Latin Mass brings that power in a clearer way than

the Novus Ordo just because it focuses so clearly on Christ.

Really, it's not about language.

I mean, language is human

invention.

I mean, if you look at Pentecost, every language in the world is a very important thing.

So it's not that the words are in Latin, it is that

the words that are spoken, with an exception of the blessing of the Eucharist, right,

are different,

that

they are more

channeled.

Yeah.

Right?

Is that right?

And it's not just the words, but the whole,

I guess the

best word I have is supernatural.

The Latin Mass points to a supernatural truth that every Mass points to.

But it points more clearly.

The way I've described it, and like I said, I'm no expert.

I'm just learning

about the Latin Mass because it wasn't even really mentioned when when I was ordained a priest in 1985.

But as a bishop, I came to know about it through younger priests that were well versed in it.

I see a beauty there.

And the way I've described

the Christ is the message.

He is the truth.

He is what it's all about.

He is the song, you could say.

The Latin Mass is a full-blown symphony orchestra saying, gloriously, the Lord is here.

The novice ordo is a simple kind of plinked out on the piano.

It's the same melody.

It's the same Christ and the same truth, but it's not a robust supernatural celebration of that truth that the Latin Mass can be.

And it can be, you know, I mean, people tend to look at, oh, you know, there was some sort of perfect world before Vatican II.

It wasn't.

I mean,

there was a tendency in humanity with anything, familiarity breeds contempt.

And the Latin Mass was so familiar that priests would, you know, see how quickly they could get through it and, you know, how quickly they could go through all the motions

and losing, you know, losing the message, the supernatural message.

So to look back and say, oh, it was perfect in 1950.

I was born in 1958.

It wasn't.

No.

But the world's never been perfect.

It never will be.

There is a value there

that is rooted in a respect for the supernatural that,

frankly, we've lost a lot.

I mean, those 61%, I keep going back to that.

I would wager that if that's accurate, most of those people would not be

appreciating or participating in the Latin Mass.

Because what I've seen, especially young families, young people

searching for truth, and they land at the Latin Mass because it speaks to their yearning for the sacred, for the supernatural, for something that the Mass, it's not just another gathering.

It's not just another gathering of a few people, children of God in whatever setting.

It's something sacred, something different.

And I think a lot of young people are looking for that difference in a life where, you know, the world presents everything on a platter.

I mean, we've got all the technology, all the pleasure possibilities, everything.

And people are cutting through that and saying, I want something that brings me to the sacred nature of who I am.

And that's what the natural, the Latin Mass does for people.

There is

nothing sacred anymore.

Nothing.

And without that,

everything is worthless.

I take my daughters on a father-daughter date every year.

And

when they were very young, we lived near New York City.

And so I would take them and I would ask them,

Do you want to

wear a tie?

Do you want me to wear a tux?

What do you want?

Well, when they were little kids, daddy in a tux and them in their special dress.

So every year we still do that.

And

I was sitting in a

in New York City, and this couple came up, and they were just in a tie.

And he was just in tie.

She was just in a nice dress.

And they tapped us on the shoulder and they said,

thank you.

And I said,

for what?

They said, we fly out from Los Angeles once a year just so we don't feel out of place

in a tie and a jacket.

There is a need

for that.

And,

you know, that's a stupid little story compared to the sacredness of there.

There has to be the sacred.

And it is what people are crying out for.

They're not crying out for another band on the altar.

They're crying out for a supernatural experience that connects them with something that is eternal.

Yeah.

And really, Glenn, I would share just just quickly a little story.

Just from last night, I'm dressed exactly as I am in sort of the bishop's uniform, the clerical collar with the pectoral cross.

And a woman comes up and says, Are you a Catholic priest?

I said, Yeah, I'm bishop.

And she said, It's the first time I've seen a Catholic priest

out in public.

She was, you know, had Catholic roots, but you know, was definitely struggling there in some ways.

But, you know, it's sort of like the nuns and habits.

That has an impact.

And it says there's something special here, whether it's the greatest nun or the greatest priest or bishop or not.

But it speaks to that hunger for something sacred.

And I think we have, just as a society, we've lost a lot of that.

I mean, people go to mass dressed like they're going to the mall or to anything else.

And I think that has diminished us because it all begins to speak to our sacredness.

And I mean, like with your daughters, to let them know they're special and they are,

you love them.

Right.

And this is a special moment.

It's a special moment.

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Let me take you to,

gosh, where was it?

It was.

Oh, I want to take you to some place that I don't,

and I don't say this for

sensationalism.

I have a lot of really

deep Catholic friends, and

my family, on my wife's side, especially, they're Italian, and they are very Catholic.

They don't like this Pope,

but he's the Pope.

And then I have some other Catholic friends who are also very deeply Catholic, who are very concerned that these are the people who follow Fatima and things like that.

And

they are saying to me,

Glenn,

this is the time.

If that Pope goes to Russia,

you know, you pack up your bags.

Can you speak to any of that?

Well, there is a lot of that conversation out there in the Catholic world, and I presume just in the world.

Is this the end of time and all of that?

Again,

I go to Jesus.

What does he say?

Only the Father knows.

And so to me, the answer is there through the ages.

I mean, and there have been, as I'm sure you've studied in history, there have been moments when the millennials and the, you know, there have been people through the ages saying, this is it.

If you didn't say that, except for, you know, prophecy not being fulfilled, if you didn't say that in the 1930s and 40s you were in Germany, I don't know what you were thinking because that looked like hell on earth, literally.

The best answer that I've heard, I heard a monk a couple of years ago just at a conference, someone asked the question, is this the end of the world?

And the monk's answer was,

always remember, you know, Jesus' answer, only the Father knows the end of the world.

But it could be the end of your world.

So are you ready for that?

And to me, that's what it comes down to.

I mean, 65 years old, many people don't live beyond 65, even in modern times.

I think we have to ask ourselves, am I doing my best to live the truth?

Am I ready to meet my Maker?

Of course,

even saying those words, there's a whole

throng of humanity that seems to want to be the dominant throng.

There is no maker.

We don't believe in God.

What an empty world that is.

But a lot of people, I mean, my bias is that there are very few real atheists in the world.

I think there are a lot of agnostics, a lot of people who don't like what they hear of God and don't like religion and everything.

But to me, it's antithetical to our humanity to not believe.

To not believe in God is not to believe in ourselves.

And to me, that leaves us in a very empty world that I don't want any part of.

And I don't believe is the world.

But I think that we have to

keep reminding ourselves of

what is important,

what is valuable, and

keep looking to that and trust

that God is love.

I mean, John's gospel says it so beautifully.

God is love.

Love is of God.

And Jesus Christ, we believe, is love incarnate.

And so love is real.

And I'm sure with, you know, you think of your love for your daughters, your wife, real love gives us that glimpse of

there has to be God

because

even human love, with all its imperfections, it couldn't exist without the ultimate love.

Can I ask you?

Because I think you believe, you have a name for it.

I didn't know it had a name.

I believe the Big Bang is absolutely possible.

But what caused the Big Bang?

What happened before?

I believe in dinosaurs.

I believe in possibility, not of

evolution

as Darwin talked about it, but

I don't don't think he, I don't know how he creates.

So whether he went, there's a man, you know, or

he created some other way, it's not essential to my salvation.

I will probably never live long enough to know.

I'll ask him when I get there.

What is the name of that philosophy?

Because do you hold that philosophy that that could be the way God created, but we don't know?

That's what I understand that the Catholic Church teaches ultimately is that

the point of revelation, what God has revealed to us is he is the author of creation.

You know, and one of the basic tenets of the Catholic faith that I've always appreciated is the Catholic faith says God has revealed to us what we need to know for salvation.

There's a lot he hasn't revealed.

And I think this push, I love science, I always have.

I'm just as a kid, I've always loved science and technology and all of that.

But I think there's a real push to get it all figured out, us.

And it ain't going to happen.

You know, you always end up with the greatest scientific discoveries.

They end up with, we don't know.

How does life really come to be?

We know lots of the mechanisms, but There's a lot we don't know.

And I think that that just with the questions you're raising, we don't know how God did it, but God did it.

And He is the author.

We're not the author of ourselves, and it's not just some happenstance of, you know, these molecules happen to fall together.

That's, you know, that's harder to believe

than the Creator.

I mean, it's like, oh, it just all, you know, fell into place.

That doesn't make sense.

But I think that

you have to,

I mean, I think the simple answer is, however, however God did it he did it and so we look to him as our creator we're created in his image and likeness that's what makes humanity special significant children of God called to be children of God we still have the free will to reject that and and many do at least in one degree or another but we

by our very nature are called to return to the Father.

And I think that's a lot of what's broken in the world is there's so many blocks to that and so many people saying there is no Father.

It's like, if we're created in the image and likeness of God, that's what Revelation teaches us.

If there is no God, then what is our image and likeness?

What are we?

Even if

you

don't fully go down the path, like I have a problem with, if they were just called Mo's 10 tips for life,

the 10 commandments wouldn't be controversial um

i am the god that freed you from slavery okay

remember that and don't put any other god before me so this whatever freed me from slavery his teachings free me from slavery Don't have any other gods.

We have so many other gods.

Everything we have is a god.

I think that idolatry is really,

you could say that's the problem.

We are an idolatrous generation

in many different ways, within the church, without the church.

I mean, all kinds of ways that idolatry,

because

Putting something before God, whether it's position or wealth or power or whatever, and it can be very subtle or it can be very flagrant, but I think that's, you know, again, looking to the Ten Commandments, there's tremendous challenge and tremendous wisdom there.

Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

What are our strange gods?

And there's a long list.

A long, long list.

I just have to find this one more thing here.

Okay.

Just to repeat.

Notoriously election denying,

QAnon spreading, Francis bashing, vaccine rejecting.

You would have to repeat this.

Yeah.

Division sowing, fire breathing, darling, the right-wing Twitter.

Agendas far beyond.

He appeared at Stop the Steal Magna, a MAGA event.

I cannot allow you to leave without adding another one of those to your list.

Would you close out with a prayer?

Sure.

In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Almighty God, we thank you for the truth that you have revealed to us, ultimately, through your Son, Jesus Christ.

We thank you for the saints that have witnessed to this truth through the ages, for the woman chosen to be the mother of your Son, the Immaculate Virgin Mary, who points us always to her Son and simply says, do what he tells you.

We give thanks for all of these blessings, Lord, in the midst of challenge and confusion and too much darkness.

Help us to see the light of your Son, and may he guide us always as your children.

And we ask this in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Amen.

Now you can add that you prayed with that Hitler-loving zealot, Glendeck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

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