Ep 193 | ATF Agent's CHILLING Warning: 'You CANNOT Trust Your Government' | John Dodson | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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Today's guest, we have wanted to talk to for a very long time.

He reached out to us a while back, said he had exactly 161 days left before retiring from the ATF.

Until then, he had to keep his mouth shut.

But he promised he was sitting on a perspective that

not a lot of people will talk about.

Well, last week he retired.

He spent three decades inside the Justice Department, starting with local law enforcement, then a long career with the ATF.

He also did assignments with the FBI and the DEA.

Everything for him changed in 2009.

He was assigned to Operation Fast and Furious, the ATF gunwalking mission.

The Obama administration was all too happy to prop up the narrative that Americans can't be trusted with guns.

Well, today's guest was the whistleblower who brought that scandal to light.

He documented what he discovered in his book, The Unarmed Truth, My Fight to Blow the Whistle and Expose Fast and Furious.

If he hadn't spoken up at the time, the world would never have known, and there's no telling how political elites,

what else they would have tried.

Nobody paid for it, but at least it was exposed.

But Fast and Furious, he now says, is only the tip of the iceberg.

His message is pretty startling

and one that should concern every single American.

We were talking in a pre-interview and I asked him, have you mourned for your country?

And he said, I have.

He no longer believes the things he used to.

He still believes in the oath that he took.

He still believes in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

But he has lost, he feels, the country that he grew up in and served for so long

because we're not holding those things sacred anymore.

He's going to talk a little bit about the full-scale total war manipulation of the justice system, designed now to just further political agendas and silence opposition.

He has witnessed firsthand how the government uses fear to get us to do what is against our best interest.

At every turn, they're breaking the law in order to enforce it, or worse, in order to incriminate their enemies.

Today's guest,

we asked last week, what do people do?

He said at the time, I don't have an answer, but I'll

try to find one.

He wants people to know that you have power to resist tyranny.

No matter what they say, you are not a terrorist.

Please welcome American hero, John Dodson.

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We've wanted you on for...

I don't know how long.

First of all, thank you for blowing the whistle.

I can't imagine it was pleasant in any way,

especially with Fast and Furious and then what you have to share today.

Let's start with Fast and Furious.

What was that supposed to be?

Oh, that's a good question.

I can tell you how they tried to sell it to me.

Okay.

So Fast and Furious was an investigation into firearms trafficking that was occurring in southern Arizona, and the firearms that were being trafficked were ending up in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels.

Fast and Furious was

an investigation that was launched out of the newly created DOJ strike forces at that time.

And it was to combat that illegal firearms trafficking.

I was told this is how we're going to take down the cartel, is by following these guns, taking off these trafficking networks, and ultimately prosecuting

the Mexican drug cartels.

The problem is,

some people say it went away or there were some things that happened that, you know, weren't supposed to happen.

But the way it looked to me and the way that it was briefed to me, that it was kind of the plan all along to facilitate the trafficking of these firearms to the Mexican drug cartels, allow them to be used in crime.

Then when they're traced by the Mexican authorities, count those stats to establish that this firearms trafficking was happening.

And there's no way you're going to take down a cartel.

That's why it didn't make sense.

So

what happened then?

What made you red pill and say, I got to blow the whistle?

Yeah.

Well, it was definitely a red pill moment or

come to Jesus moment.

Yeah, in lightning.

I'm trying to think.

It was like a Mitchell and Webb.

There's an old British TV show.

It's not that old, but they're dressed in.

They're pretending to be Nazi soldiers in World War II.

And the one asked the other one, hey, have you ever looked at our uniforms with the skull and crossbones?

Like, are we the baddies?

Are we the bad guys here?

So that was kind of my moment, too.

So what happened was when I first got to, and you have to understand, a lot of things led up to the establishment of the strike force, which was a DOJ-run entity.

So for the first time in my career, I was assigned to a task force that was prosecutorial-led and not enforcement-led.

So it was led by the U.S.

Attorney's Office, not by law enforcement.

Normally on a task force, you have law enforcement running it.

You have agents and officers from different jurisdictions that provide different expertise, different assets, availability, things like that.

This is the first time I've ever been assigned where one was being run by the U.S.

Attorney's Office or by a prosecuting authority.

And

just so people know, tell me what a strike force is.

Right.

So a strike force was brand new in 2009.

They were launched.

It was funded by DOJ as an initiative to combat.

firearms trafficking.

And recently, also during that time in 2009, firearms trafficking was added to what's called OSADEF, the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, which used to only be narcotics trafficking.

And when you can OSADEF a case, then you get all these funds that are open to you that you can do wiretaps, you can bring in multiple surveillance teams, you can cross borders easily, things like that.

So in 2009 was the first time firearms trafficking was allowed to be OSADEF.

So DOJ created these strike forces and put four of them.

Originally there were four throughout the southwest border, ranging from California to Texas.

So one being in Phoenix, which is the one I was assigned to.

And

so that's what a strike force is compared to a task force, which is run by cops, make cases, and then take those to prosecution.

So the whole point of it was designed to combat firearms trafficking.

You also have to understand in 2009

Okay, so earlier in 2009, the Department of Defense had said the instability along the U.S.

southern border caused by the violence created by the Mexican drug cartels is a threat to national security.

So that opens up the floodgates.

Once you declare that, then all bets, you know, all the rules go away about things that you can do.

So all these other initiatives start to take place.

So also in 2009, DOJ and the ATF release a statistic that says 90% of all crime guns in Mexico are U.S.

sourced firearms.

They come from the U.S.

civilian firearms market and they're funneled down south and they're used in these horrible crimes that are being happened in Mexico.

Okay, wait.

I want to make sure because

they manipulate words all the time.

Yes.

When it comes from the American market, does that mean it's a gun produced here and sold here and then smuggled across the border?

What do they mean by that?

Well, see, that's part of what I consider to be the okey-doke, right?

So

they don't define or quantify that enough.

What they say is 90% of the guns recovered in Mexico are U.S.

source firearms.

Well, that information comes from the tracing system.

The only guns that we can successfully trace are U.S.

sourced firearms.

Either they were manufactured here or imported into the U.S., those are the only ones we can trace.

You can't successfully trace anything that was made in, you know, Pakistan or China or Romania.

All right.

So that number should, in theory, be 100%.

100% of the guns successfully traced that are recovered in Mexico

are U.S.

source firearms.

So what happens in 2009 when we start this initiative, ATF sends people down to Mexico to start,

ATF also launches Spanish e-trace and gives the Mexican authorities access to it so they can start tracing all their firearms.

At some point in early 2009, mid-2009, I think two compact discs show up at the tracing center from Mexico where they had gone in and just opened up their vaults and got every

manufacturer and serial number of every firearm in the vault and dumped it in the tracing system.

Well, that 90% dropped down to like 17% overnight as soon as these guns were put in there.

So only 17% of the guns in Mexican vaults were coming back to a U.S.

fire.

I've heard that.

Yeah.

So that totally defeats the argument that 90% of the crime guns in Mexico are U.S.

source firearms.

So then,

lo and behold, a short time later, Fast and Furious takes off, which is us facilitating, coercing the gun dealers into cooperating, make them do transactions that they knew that they weren't comfortable doing, and express their uncomfortableness with it.

Reason the skids so that they weren't stopped by Arizona DPS, they weren't stopped by customs or ICE or, yeah, I was ICE at the time, or Border Patrol or anything like that to make sure they got into Mexico and then sit back and wait on the traces.

Now, even if you're doing all that, what you're not telling the American people is,

and this is a big part of it, say Colt, which is a U.S.

manufacturer, Colt,

you know, DPMS,

any of the large major U.S.

gun suppliers.

If they do a government-to-government sale, which they sell the guns to the U.S.

government and the government sells them to the Mexican government or provides them to the Mexican government, or the Mexican government purchases those firearms directly from Colt, all right?

Once they're in Mexico, they're diverted to the black market, used in a crime, recovered, and traced.

Colt's the manufacturer.

So even though it says, we sold this to the Mexican government, government, they count that as a U.S.

sourced firearm.

And they blame the U.S.

civilian firearms market for it.

So

remind America who Brian Terry is.

So Brian Terry was a border patrol agent, Bortak,

a very good agent.

Bortak is their version of a SWAT team, for a better way to say it.

And I never met Brian Tarron, but Brian Terry, I'm sorry, but

I know his family are wonderful people.

And to hear the way they talk about him, I wish I would have known the man.

So in December of 2009, there's an incident in a place south of Tucson.

It's in a town called, near

Rio Rico.

It's called Pet Canyon.

There's a crew of what we refer to as a RIP crew.

It's a bandit crew, armed illegals that come over.

and they rape, rob, and pillage, and steal.

A lot of times one cartel will control this avenue for drug smuggling.

So they will dispatch a rip crew to protect their loads.

Then they'll also dispatch a rip crew into another cartel's area of operations to rob their dope loads going through.

Jeez.

So Brian Terry and his Vortec team are set up in Peck Canyon.

A RIP crew comes in.

Shots are fired.

Brian Terry is killed.

That night, two of the weapons, or I think there are three weapons that are recovered.

Two of them trace back to the Fast and Furious program that we had facilitated the sale and trafficking of.

And then

this is where the red pill moment really happens, where you start to see, because ATF knew within hours of the guns being recovered that they belonged to the Fast and Furious program or they originated from there.

So

then you see the vault door start to shut, you know, the blast doors go down.

And

then they try to cover it up.

And so it's, you know, the whole blowing the whistle and everything else that came out after that was trying to get the truth to light and let the Terry family know what happened to Brian that night.

When you blew the whistle, what was that like?

It's it's funny now because at the time I was so naive, I guess is the best way to put it.

Well, it's weird.

People who believe in the Constitution and believe in the country,

I think most of us are

truly shocked at these kinds of things.

We had no idea.

Maybe we were stupid, but we really have no idea.

You don't, and I didn't at the time.

Like I joined the Army when I was 17, still in high school.

I've been under oath to protect and defend this country and this Constitution since I was 17.

And yes, you see...

You know, some things happen that are stupid and some things you disagree with.

But all in all, you think, okay, it's there for the greater good.

Like, yes, we have our problems, we have our mistakes, but

everybody's trying to do their best.

And let's be honest, it's government.

So it's not the smartest people in society that gravitate to that line of work.

Myself included.

So

when that happens, when I see the way that they're handling it and they're trying to cover it up, that's when I realize, okay,

things aren't the way that I always thought they were, you know?

And it makes you reflect back on things that you've seen in the past and question that.

And more importantly, it makes you question pretty much everything you hear in the future coming out of that.

And

so it was a defining moment for me and my wife.

And my wife was, I got to tell you, she's so fascinating because she's not in law enforcement, not in government, nothing like that.

But to see the evolution take place in her too, about what she believed her government to be and what it to stand for and things like that.

And then to where she is now knowing that it's, you know, it's kabuki theater for a better term

were you afraid oh yes sir yeah there were there were times where i would when i first blew the whistle so long story short when congress congressional investigators called me these were people working for senator grassley at the time

and um when they first got a hold of me because i had vocally voiced my objection to the tactic of what we call gun walking walking guns and um

so i guess they had got wind of that and contacted me and I told them, I said, look, I'm not going to do this behind ATF's back.

I'm going to do it

on board officially.

So if talking to me is going to hurt your investigation, wait to talk to me last.

And they're like, no, it's not going to hurt us, but we encourage you.

Like, you don't have to say anything.

And we'll do everything to protect your identity.

And I said, no, I've been saying this and I'll continue to say it.

And I'm going to tell them that I told you, you know, so I told them.

And then That's when everything changed for me.

And it got so bad to the point I thought I was going to be arrested.

I thought, you know, SRT was going to hit my house and I would, you know,

our special response team or some FBI, HRT or whomever.

And, you know, I thought I would, I could potentially get shot while resisting.

Or

I used to wait till my wife and kids, my wife went to work, my kids got on the school bus before I would start my car in the morning because every ATF agent knows how to build a bomb.

And

this is what I will tell the American people, and I've said it before.

When you know what your government is capable of, that is one thing.

All right.

When you know what they're willing to do with those capabilities, that's when it gets terrifying.

And yeah, it was a scary, scary time.

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I don't know how to exactly ask this question.

I understand what you just said.

Knowing what your government can do,

knowing what they will do, are willing to do.

How did that manifest itself?

I mean, how did you come to

understand

or come to the belief that My car could explode?

That's, I mean, the only reason I say this,

I've had an experience, I don't need to get into the story, but I had an experience where my wife said to me, we are living a Jason Bourne movie.

And

a friend of mine, when I said, come on, this is not, and he said, he knew government, he's very similar to you.

And he was like,

you really think it only happens in the movies?

This is real stuff.

You're playing with the big boys.

How did you get there to where you're like, they will do it?

They're capable and they're willing to do it.

Yes.

Well, so I started getting there when, all right, so

during Fast and Furious, there were three specific gun dealers, four,

really four, in Arizona that were cooperating with us on the investigation that had identified what we call a straw purchaser, someone who's purchasing a firearm on behalf of someone else.

And all four of them had identified the straw purchasers to us and did not want to continue selling them because they knew, you know, you got a 19-year-old kid walk in with a crown royal bag full of cash.

And by 28K's, there's something wrong with it.

The gun dealers know this.

And my experience over my entire career had been most gun dealers are, you know, small business owners, patriots, like they're honorable people.

And so, no, we assured them we've got this investigation.

Don't worry about it.

We've got this.

You know, we're with the government.

We're here to help.

Trust us.

So then

in December of 2009, I was sitting at the time I had been thrown out of the ATF building for raising so much objection to it and dispatched over to the or assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force.

So someone sends me an article from the Washington Post, and it's ATF personnel all the way up the chain and DOJ people talking to these two reporters from the Washington Post describing how

I think it's called the River of Iron is mentioned in there, which is these firearms flowing south south from Arizona into Mexico, wreaking all this havoc.

And they specifically had trace data, which is supposedly law enforcement sensitive that were not supposed to release that thing, but it had all this information.

You know, all the supervisors and

deputy assistant directors and stuff at headquarters involved and on the record talking about how these four gun dealers in Arizona

are the problem.

Like, oh, they're mine.

Oh, my gosh.

And

I knew what the statistics were, but I also knew why they were so high.

They were so high because they were doing sales that they didn't want to do, but we had told them to do.

And then we allowed, facilitated those firearms to be trafficked all the way through and then sat back and waited for them to be used in crime so that we could trace them.

And then it comes back to the dealer.

So the entire article is blaming specifically, amongst others, but these four gun dealers in Arizona is the primary part.

So then, like, I start to look around and think,

they know this isn't true.

They know this isn't the case.

Like, this is completely manufactured against them.

So that leads to that development of what they're willing to do.

And

so then I blow the whistle and I first talk to Senator Grassley's office, and they sent a letter over to then Attorney General Eric Holder.

And DOJ responds and categorically denied the allegations.

They've never walked a gun.

They would never let a gun go.

I'm an absolute liar.

It pretty much said, you know,

John Dotson's a wing nut.

Don't trust any of those.

So then even when that comes out, our at-time director, I got information from other agents in other divisions that during town hall meetings, when asked about it, he would make statements like, oh, this is just some disgruntled agent in Phoenix that doesn't know what he's talking about.

So now

I've seen my government lie to the media about what's going on.

They've lied to Congress about what's going on.

And now they're shooting the messenger.

They're coming after me trying to discredit it.

And so that's when you start to realize, okay, and like you said, it's

you know, it's a very big pond, and I'm a little tiny fish.

I mean, I'm a lonely GS-13 swimming in some very deep waters out there that I don't know the rules of.

And

then things start to get weird.

Like they start tapping our phones.

They're intruding on our computers.

I've got surveillance teams in from out of town watching me, following me around.

I find trackers on my car.

And so you realize these are things that I can't do without getting a warrant for, or a lot of these things.

And

they're just doing it.

No, they're just flicking switches and it's happening.

When Eric Holder refused to go to Congress,

that's pretty much the end of it, wasn't it?

Pretty much, yeah, because Congress's hands was tied.

He was found in contempt.

Fortunately, during all this, because at the time,

the

Republicans didn't have the Senate or the House.

But then once the midterms happened and the Republicans took the House, Congressman Issa took over in charge of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

And that was the first time that they could issue a subpoena because Senator Grassley was in the minority in the Senate.

And so his committee, he couldn't issue a subpoena without the chair, and the chair wasn't going to do it.

So Issa started doing it, and then Holder was found in contempt.

Well, here's another thing that people don't understand about their government.

When you're held in contempt of Congress, all right, I know what happens if I get a subpoena or if I don't do it, what a judge does to me.

So all Congress can do is refer that to the U.S.

Attorney for the District of Columbia.

Well, how did the U.S.

Attorney for the District of Columbia get their job?

Well, they're nominated by the president.

Well, who's the president at the time?

Same person that nominated the attorney general.

So naturally, no prosecution was brought forward.

How much worse did that make things?

That nobody paid a price for this?

Or did it?

No, no one ever.

Some people retired.

They had their time in.

No, I mean, but did it make it worse by nobody paying a price?

Did that build their arrogance and like, oh, we can get away with anything?

100%.

Of course.

And you can tell by things that have happened since then that it's just emboldened them.

Like it's, and actually, unfortunately,

you know, an unintended consequence of what I did and how I did it, which is I used the system.

Like I did, we have to take the whistleblower training every year online.

You know, it's one of our requirements for our learn ATF training.

And so I paid attention and I did it the way that you're supposed to do it.

So they couldn't come after me in ways that they normally crush whistleblowers.

So they had to come up with alternative methods.

And then, so now they've learned in different ways to get people and to go after people.

And that's why I think whistleblowers in today's time and in today's environment have a much harder time.

Even as hard as it was for me, I think now

it's even hard.

Are there agents?

You know, here's the problem.

I mean, I've always respected police.

I've always respected the FBI, the Justice Department.

I know we have problems,

but I always trusted them, you know.

I don't trust them.

at all anymore and here's why

i believe the corruption is up at the top,

but I'm losing that faith because you have hundreds of agents, thousands of agents all across the country.

Do they not see it?

Or are they not willing to stand up?

Or is the whole system corrupt?

There's a lot of answers to that.

corrupt and there is an element of corruption.

There's also, I think, the bigger element is it's broken.

The system is broken.

Talk about the FBI for a minute.

So I remember when I first started in law enforcement, the FBI, we used to joke, we considered them the fifth branch of government, all right?

Because they existed for one reason, that's to look out for the FBI.

Whatever they did, whatever they did, it was make sure the FBI comes out smelling like a rose, which was frustrating, like you couldn't imagine, when you needed something and they weren't okay with it.

But when

you needed what aligned with their goal of their PR campaign, That was great because they brought all the assets, all the money, anything you needed.

Yes, they were going to have the press conference, but you still took your case to where it needed to go and got the bad guys.

So, fast forward to now,

right?

And that's not the case at all.

I mean, the FBI seems to be much more interested in, and it's not just the FBI, I shouldn't just single them out, but

it's enforcing a political agenda or

the wants and wishes of a certain party.

And where it started or where the changed happened, I'm not sure.

And I was like some of those guys to where I didn't care, I didn't pay attention until I ended up in the situation that I was in, that red pill moment.

And

I can tell you, I know a lot of FBI guys, DEA, ATF, HSI, Border Patrol,

those agencies are full of really good men and women that really want to do the job, that want to do the right thing.

Now, the problem is

when

they're ordered something that's contrary to that, how many of them stand up?

That's the troubling figure to me.

Because

I don't know.

I would hope that they will.

Have you ever read Christopher Browning's work, Ordinary Men?

No, I'm sorry.

So it was written, I think, in the 1950s, and it was a study done on the best police force,

really

most respected in what became the Eastern Bloc.

It was the Polish police force.

They were good, they were effective, they were one with the community.

And the whole book is the research on

how did they so quickly become the most vicious killer of their own people.

And

I think it's something that every FBI agent and every cop should read because

you might think you're on the right side

and you can turn and then it all becomes self, you know, reinforcing to where, well, we're doing this as a group and we're doing it.

And once you

hit that first bullet, make that first,

you know, mistake,

you're pretty much in.

I agree.

I agree.

And I think, as with Fast and Furious, what I saw there was you had these people that were making this argument for this tactic of gunwalking.

And I am just sitting and listening, and it doesn't make any sense.

And I know that sometimes they struggled with it too.

But then you have your supervisor and your supervisor supervisor all the way up the chain, all the way to headquarters, all the way to Maine Justice saying, this is great.

It's exactly what we want.

Keep up the good work.

So they start to convince themselves, well, okay, yeah, this is all right.

Like I'm getting accolades for this.

Even if I have internal struggles with it, this is what I'm supposed to do.

Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking.

You know, it's, I think, like you're talking about with that police force, law enforcement in the U.S.

today, whether it's federal, state, or local, is

it.

If tyranny is afoot, like you are the front line, you're it.

All right.

It begins and ends with you.

You're either the gatekeepers of freedom or the prison cards of it.

Make your choice.

Remember your oath.

Your oath is not to a party.

It's not to a person.

It's not to a platform.

All right.

It's to defend and protect the Constitution of the U.S.

from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Serve.

Do that.

We trust you to make a life or death decision in a nanosecond when you pull your weapon out.

Why can't I trust you when you're given an order that's unconstitutional to say, you know, I'm not going to do that?

We've already had this discussion, too.

I mean, just following orders is not

defensible.

We had that discussion in Nuremberg.

Yeah, and it's not defensible.

And yet, I mean, people are so confused by,

well, I mean, nobody's paying attention to the Constitution anyway.

I mean, I hear the things that are going on with all the agencies.

CIA is absolutely operating within the United States of America, right?

Yep.

Okay.

And is it

through tricks or are they actually physically in the United States spying on people?

Or are we just using foreign

spy agencies?

Right.

Or anybody that has any contact with anything outside of the U.S.

and then that falls under the Patriot and you can scoop up all that stuff.

Or is it worse?

I think it's, well, I know it's worse than just part of that, but I think it's even worse than anything that I could imagine, much less known.

Why do you say that?

Because, like I say, when they, I know what happened in 2009, when they declared the instability along the Mexican border to be a national security issue, I saw the gates open for the Intel world right there on that in ways that was never allowed to happen on U.S.

soil before.

And I know,

and I'm sorry, I had to sign a very lengthy non-disclosure agreement when I retired recently,

reminding me that my commitment to classified information was a lifelong commitment.

Anyway, it opened the gates to a number of things that normally or prior to that would have required a court to review and sign off on, a judicial order.

Now, with the establishment of the FISA courts, you know, those rules changed instantly and with zero accountability.

And so I think the intelligence agencies are far more involved in the day-to-day lives of the Americans than what anyone is willing to believe, just based on the information that's out there

And the depth of it is probably much deeper than that.

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So let's go through a couple of things.

Let's start at the border.

Yes.

I mean, I believe

just through

acts of omission, maybe not commission,

but we are the biggest ally to the drug cartels now ever with smuggling of drugs, smuggling of human trafficking.

I mean, we have

we're just turning a blind side.

They are more powerful,

much more wealthy than they've ever been.

And we all know that they are trafficking people.

And we're not doing anything.

Is this just blindness?

I don't know if it's blindness or if that's pure corruption or the system is broken that bad.

I joke that I think the Mexican drug cartels must be huge donors to the Democratic Party because it's the only way I can understand certain stances on migration and illegal immigration.

So if you cared about these people, you talk about these migrants coming over, you know, and where they're coming from and things like that.

If you honestly cared about them, right, the first thing you would do is shut the border down and you would revamp our immigration system to allow it to happen legally.

Because right now, all you're doing is you're funneling all these people that they're just trying to get here and make, you know, make it to a better world, make a better life for their families or things like that.

And you're funneling them into the hands of the cartels, where they have to pay coyotes or smugglers.

You have to pay the cartel to use their smuggling routes.

Like they don't just let somebody walk through, right?

You have to pay them to do it.

And if you can't pay,

you owe them, right?

You owe them.

You're kidnapped.

Somebody in your family's got to pay.

You're raped.

You're robbed.

They'll take everything from you, kill you.

I mean, there are so many bodies out there in the desert.

The average American can't imagine.

The cartels have forward operating bases within sight of the border.

You can see them at certain areas in the mountains of southern Arizona, like full-on

hardened forward operating bases.

where they're managing their corridors, where they're keeping track of everything, using them as rally points, and sending out their detachments, dope this way, rip crews this way, humans this way.

And they will orchestrate all these humans to go down into the flats, all these migrants, and they're called give-ups.

Border Patrol calls them gives up.

They'll get them just over the border, and then they'll honestly call Border Patrol and say, come pick them up.

Well, you've got 200 migrants that have just paid the cartel to be transferred over, that they've been, you know, had their ransoms.

Even after they've paid, a lot of times they're held ransom and their families and stuff have to pay more.

Who knows what kind of abuses they've suffered.

They're taken over the border, turned loose.

Border Patrol comes down, they have to deal with 200 of these at a time in the flats.

Meanwhile, when all these Border Patrol come to deal with that in the flats, the dope loads go out through the mountains and the rip crews go out.

It's orchestrated, and we're allowing it to happen by keeping the border open.

If you shut it down, you do a huge,

a huge

blow to the cartel's money train instantly the minute you shut it down.

I saw a number yesterday that they think that we have

allowed i think the number was 60 000 people with possible terror ties no i'm sure

i'm sure i mean but then again

you understand that they claim everything is a terrorism tie now i mean

anybody that does anything could end up you know on a watch list or or terrorism so They throw that word around a lot.

I'm not trying to minimize what you're saying.

It's downplayed.

There's a lot of people from a lot of countries where we should probably know that they're here or denied them entry that are making it through the border.

What was it?

I think it was Del Rio, Texas, where they were hit with all the Haitian migrants coming in.

How did they all get from Haiti?

How did they?

Come across.

Like somebody's paying for this to come across through Mexico to get to West Texas and dumped out on the border.

Like, how does this happen?

Where's the funding for this?

Follow the money.

Do you have any idea where it's coming from?

I have no clue.

I don't.

I wish I did.

Yeah.

Whether it's the elites, the

World Economic Forum, or anywhere, I don't know, but somebody's paying for it, somebody with the money to do it.

And what's the end game?

What's the cause?

I mean, what's the what are you hoping to achieve by doing so?

So you look at the chaos that is happening in America.

I know, not as well as you, but

this is the way we overthrow countries.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, this is what the CIA does.

And have been doing it for decades.

Right.

Look through Central and South America.

Look through the history of that.

The playbook that the CIA used to, you know,

oust a government that wasn't friendly to the U.S.

to establish one that was.

You go in, you.

you cause discord, you know you fund those groups that are going to rise up to

separate, to divide the populace, anti-government movements here, and you get everyone on one side or the other or three different sides, and you start to destabilize.

Destabilization is the first part of overthrowing.

So what is their end goal?

I mean,

they're playing it as if it's

the end of America.

Right.

If you look at the playbook, I mean, that's where it looks like it's going.

You know, like we have front-row tickets to the end of the empire.

I don't know.

And I don't know who's behind it.

And I don't know if there is a Dr.

Evil or if it's just a conspiracy of ignorance or hubris, you know?

You can't be this wrong for America this many times in a row.

I know, that's what I say.

I, you know, my wife and I disagree on not very much, but she finds it hard to believe that someone is smart enough to orchestrate such a conspiracy.

And when actually it doesn't take this time, it doesn't take that many people.

It just takes the right people in the right places.

Right.

And the right amount of money.

Right.

And the right amount of information.

And, you know,

this is what the progressive movement was in the early 20th century.

It was to

progressivism was, we like communism, we just don't like the blood of a revolution.

So we'll take it step by step.

Well, in 100 years, if you have organizations set up to move us in one direction, you don't need anyone really running it anymore because they're all moving in the same direction.

So it's a belief.

It's an ideology.

And here's the problem.

How do you fight belief?

Like, how do you...

I don't know.

We did that in the Nazi period, but we certainly didn't do it after 9-11.

We're not supposed to talk about belief.

Right.

Yeah.

And you look at all the vast majority of Germans in Germany during World War II, pre-World War II and during, were not Nazis, but...

They allowed it to happen.

They allowed it.

And are we allowing it to happen?

I think every day, every day we allow our government to take a further encroachment, to take away another freedom, right?

Every time that we allow them to overstep a new regulation, a new executive order, a new this, whatever.

Every time we allow it to do it, you know,

freedom dies a little bit.

And I don't think people today, I think my kids today don't live anywhere near as free as we did when we were that age.

Oh my gosh, no.

And they don't know.

They don't understand that.

Right.

They don't get it.

They don't know.

One of the problems we were talking about, you know, how they label terrorists.

If you believe in

the Founding Fathers, believed in God, that our documents were divinely inspired,

that,

you know, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, that is the mission statement and the operating manual,

you're an extremist.

Oh, yeah.

You're a terrorist.

There is every year we have to, I was talking about the the online training that we have to take.

DOJ has a video that we have to watch.

It's like 40 some minutes long and it's produced by the FBI who has a great production facility apparently somewhere in Quantico and it's called Betrayed.

And if I tell you if anybody can ever

FOIA it or get their hands on it, put it out there and watch it.

What it teaches every agent, as far as I know, every agent in DOJ has to watch it.

So I know FBI does.

I know ATF does.

I'm pretty sure the Marshals and DEA do as well, and probably the OIG.

So if you watch it, what it tells you is that person in your office, in your very office,

FBI or ATF, the person across the cubicle from you that's using words like constitution, oath, right?

What this country used to be, he is an insider threat and ends up selling you out.

That he is the bad guy or she.

That's the message of the video.

So just based on that, why doesn't every FBI agent stand up and say, I took an oath.

I took an oath.

The word you say is a mark of a terrorist.

I took an oath to defend the number two marking for terrorism, the Constitution.

Right.

Why don't

I don't know.

I can tell you, I think that for a lot of the younger agents,

and it starts with,

it starts with, okay, first of all, hiring practices, okay?

We're going to go away from hiring prior military, prior service, prior law enforcement, people that, you know,

understand oaths.

Right, understand oaths.

Or are strong in their decision making, maybe that kind of type A kind of thing.

We want somebody more malleable.

All right.

So they go strictly to academia and they take in, no longer do you need any experience.

You just need a degree.

And we don't care what's in underwater BB stacking, right?

Whatever.

You got a four-year degree.

Come on, join the club.

And then we send them through our academy where you make them watch videos like that, which again doesn't say specifically, oh,

John mentioned the Constitution.

He's a terrorist.

But if you watch it, I'm telling you, and I challenge anybody to watch it and not get the same impression.

Yeah, the guy in your office that talks about oath, Constitution, and how America used to be better is the bad guy, right?

So you take these kids that are malleable and don't know any better, have never, and like I say, their freedom, they don't live under the same freedom that we did so they still think everything's hunky-dory and then you train them in this way of thinking before long

that small sliver of the population of agents has grown right can then you bring in schedule b hiring schedule b hiring which isn't you don't have to go to gsa anymore and fill out your forms and your application take the test you're nominated by someone in your agency oh my gosh so now you've got people of the like mind can nominate other people of like mind and so that population goes so that population that would stand up and say no i'm not going to do this dwindling is dwindling even more and of those you have you have a portion of that that says man i'm so close to retirement or my wife would leave me if i lost my job is there

oh man

losing your soul and freedom um is there no way do people like you talk to like-minded people is there a way that anybody's talking and saying we all have to stand up together yes i've had that that conversation many times.

Driven by you or driven by others?

Oh, no, almost entirely driven by me.

And there are a number in agreement of it.

Don't get me wrong.

And there are a few that are absolutely not and turn around and walk away instantly and you know who they are.

But like I say, even there's a lot, but hands down, the vast majority of the agents that I've worked with, encompassing all the different agencies, are good people that want to do the right thing.

Now, we may differ on certain beliefs or things like that, but I believe them to believe they're good people.

And this is, some of this is the problem like I was talking about before.

They believe themselves righteous in what they're doing.

Hey, I'm told to do it.

This is good.

So did the Polish police.

I understand.

And I don't know how to combat that.

And I struggle with that question every day is how do you

read ordinary people.

Why is this so important to me and not

as important to everyone else?

And there are many others like me that feel the same way.

I don't want you to think that there aren't, but their numbers are dwindling compared to how it used to be.

So

catch it while we can.

One of the marks of that you're on the wrong side is, apparently, if you speak out about George Soros.

Right, yes.

You had a run-in with that, did you not?

Well, I wouldn't call it a run-in.

I just figured there was a time where, and I can't remember where the riots were, the Portland or Seattle or something like that, where it came out and it was pretty much accepted information that, or been proven even in the mainstream media, that Soros was funding these professional rioters to go to these cities, where, you know, like pallets full of bricks miraculously ended up on the street the night before and stuff like that.

But he's paying for these people to go.

So the definition of terrorism used to be violence or the threatened use of violence to achieve a political goal.

Like that was terrorism.

So on the

Joint Terrorism Task Force, I'm like, why don't we open a case on this?

This is funding of terrorism.

This is no different than people smuggling goods or, you know, cigarette trafficking or whatever, counterfeiting to get money to support a terrorist group in another part of the world.

This is happening here.

Like, we know this.

Why don't we open a case on this?

And it never made it off the conference room table.

Like, literally, I was laughed out of the room for the most part.

Hearing how close we are to

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Okay.

Let's go overseas for a while because you have background in Russia, right?

Russian tactics.

Well, I was, when I was in the army, I was a trained military intelligence analyst specializing in the Soviet Union

until the Soviet Union broke up.

And then I specialized in what the Army called Lick, low-intensity conflict.

So I want to talk to you about Ukraine.

It seems to me

that there's a good amount of people

that

really

want this war.

Oh, yeah, uh, want it to be World War III.

Yep, um, and we seem to be marching right into it.

First, let me ask you: Nordstream.

I know you don't know, but what are your thoughts on Nordstream?

I think we've,

if we didn't blow it up ourselves, we

helped, helped, trained,

uh

assisted that's an act of war on a fellow nato member right

because it was it was going to germany like you just you right you weren't just hurting russia on that no you're hurting all of europe and look what happened to germany that first year i mean that winter after that when everything

so yeah it's horrible and you're right there are so many people and as

I know when the war first happened, when it first started, and

I remember all the reports, and I don't watch a lot of news.

I catch some headlines and stuff.

But I remember my wife and I were talking, and I'm thinking, you know, this is so different than what I learned about how the Soviets would deploy, about how they would act.

Now, again, they're not the Soviet Union anymore, but Putin is a child of the Cold War.

And, you know, former case.

He misses it.

And I think he's openly said that.

Yeah.

He'd like to return it to the glory.

The biggest mistake of the 20th century.

Right.

So

hearing the news reports, I was like, none of that makes sense.

None of that makes sense.

And then I remember the first couple of videos that I saw.

And one was of

some innocent man is shot.

His vehicle is shot up by a Russian armored personnel carrier.

Two guys go to save him.

And the dog is there and won't leave his dead master now.

And

it's completely scripted.

Like it's not

real at all, but it was on the internet.

So the news is showing it like it's real.

And then after our first, I think it was after our first delivery of aid to ukraine um we sent them some man pads so you know manned portable air defense and uh they showed video of their first shooting down their first russian helicopter and you can see it it's on a wire like it's a training video is what it is it's not it's it's staged it's produced that is not what a helicopter looks like when it crashes i i've seen that that's not it that thing is on a wire going to the ground i'm like this is

are we wagging the dog i mean is that what's happening here and then everybody is all in on

this Ukraine war and all the trillions of dollars that we're spending with zero accountability.

Does anyone have any idea what that money is being spent on at all?

Has anyone asked the Ukrainians, show me what you bought with this money?

So I will tell you that

because I did the investigation with my team on the first impeachment of Donald Trump.

And I think that whole thing was

to protect what was happening in Ukraine with the Democratic Party and all of the bribery through Hunter and all of that stuff.

But

we overthrew

several times now.

We've done it.

And

Ukraine seems to play a very important role, which can only, for me, be explained as we need a clearinghouse for dirty money.

We We need to employ some bad guys to wash some money.

And where that money goes, I don't know.

But just the money that we know we've sent over,

you know, that's a lot of money.

That money would change the world.

If you're not paying taxes on it and everything else, it would change the world.

So,

is this a

involved in a payback

for what Biden and his son

were doing?

Because they were involved with all the same people.

Kolomoyski, he owns the bank, which the bank lost, I think it was $7 billion of our dollars.

Kolomoyski is involved with Burisma.

He also was the main backer of the president of Ukraine.

I mean, all of that.

And then...

Kolomoyski is thrown under the bus, and he's now been kicked out of the country.

Um,

I mean, I just don't, it's the same players, all the same players.

And I,

it,

it, what's happening, do you think?

I, I don't, I don't even begin to know the answer to that, but I can, you know,

yeah, is it more continuation of the money laundering or maybe it's an extortion kind of situation?

Right.

Hey, we know what really happened, and uh, now it's time to pay up for it before the world gets it.

But it's a

it's what's happening is not what's being reported is happening.

That is one thing I'm sure of.

And the other thing I'm sure of is ever since Fast and Furious happened, I learned a very valuable lesson, which was if your government tells you this is important, this is what we need to worry about, you probably don't.

If your government tells you, oh no, there's no reason, don't look over here, that's what you need to pay attention to.

All right.

And unfortunately, this is the world that we live in now.

And this is what I don't think the vast majority of Americans don't understand.

You cannot trust your government.

Your government is not here to serve you anymore.

What percentage do you think is

these agencies engaged in protecting our rights versus doing stuff that violate our rights?

What is the percentage?

Well, again, I don't want to talk about the individual people or agents because the ones that I worked with

administrative states from up at the top.

I think the entire government is involved in it.

It's a total war kind of doctrine, right?

What's total war?

So when I was in the military, the deal was it's total war.

You got to win the sea, the air, the land, right?

The intelligence, the media, the information, everything.

You got to bring everything to bear on it.

So I think that's what's happening now.

It's law enforcement is becoming put in the bag.

Even the Department of Labor only puts out

good information for one

sitting president and bad information for another.

The Fed does one thing one way for one president.

The courts are so

politicized now.

Like judges used to, it didn't matter what party or who nominated them.

They ruled on matters of law in the Constitution.

Now, anything hits the Supreme Court, they're zero odds on who's going to vote which way because you know what's going to happen.

So everything has been politicized and it's all part of this machine.

It's a total war kind of concept, which

to take it all, you know, control the information, control the enforcement, and that's where the law enforcement come in.

The military, the money, the Fed, the economy, everything

is just

being attacked.

Anything's fixable.

The manner means to do it may not,

what it might ultimately take to do it

is

pretty frightening.

I mean, I don't know how you fix it.

And I am not here advocating for anything other than the american people need to know what's going on and i would encourage you to

to strengthen your smaller communities your local communities all right that's where your vote counts that's what's important it should not matter to you one way or the other who's in the white house like that shouldn't affect your day-to-day life The way our Constitution is drafted and the way our country is set up, it has a very limited role, a very limited role.

Who's in your governor's mansion matters, right?

Who's in your board of supervisors or your city council, your school boards, who's your sheriff, zoning, all of these things.

These are important.

Get to know the people in your community, you know?

Get to know them.

Vote in those.

Take power back from this giant self-licking ice cream cone that is the federal government because it's not there for you.

It's there for itself, right?

Just, it enjoys itself and we sit back and watch and all we get to do is pay for it.

Take that power away.

Give it back to the states.

Don't vote for any candidate that is not going to tell you, I'm going to take power away from the the federal government and give it back to the state.

And the important thing about that is what's good for California is good for California.

Amen.

What's good for North Carolina is good for North Carolina.

It doesn't have to be the same.

That is a democratic republic.

That's what our country is based on.

And your vote counts in those instances.

So there's a debate going on now, and it's really about balkanization.

Everything that is being done to us is to divide.

You divide, you conquer.

Yes.

However,

there is a line of thought that says:

you know, if I live in New York, that thing is so far gone, and I probably should get out of there because if there ever is a gate closing, you are where you are.

Right.

And places like Texas or Florida is having such an influx of people.

Arizona as well.

People from the Pacific Northwest and California.

And

we are going to lose those places if we don't gather together.

But that's balkanization, too.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

I mean, I have opinions about it, but I don't know how to fix it.

Because in Arizona, we saw it happening.

All these people from California would sell their houses for cash, you know.

their small little house for $900,000, a million dollars, whatever, come to Arizona, to Tucson, and buy a big house and pay cash for that.

And so young families and things like that are trying to buy a house or get in their first first house can't because prices have gone through the roof.

And every time somebody puts their house on a market within two hours, they get a cash offer for 10% more than asking price.

So Arizonas can't buy houses in Arizona is the way it was happening.

So all of these,

you know, California, Pacific Northwest, and other regions and stuff too, they come in.

And then for some reason, they start voting for the same stuff that they voted for there and expecting a different outcome, I guess.

Whatever happened there that taxed them out or raised their property values, they come here and do it.

And it's the definition of insanity, right?

You do the same thing over and expect different results.

So, one of the things I think they're trying to teach us is don't gather.

Don't gather in groups.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

They don't want you to.

And COVID played a big part in that.

Can't go outside, can't go to the beach.

Don't talk.

Talking to people is dangerous.

And fear.

Fear is the biggest part of this.

And they're using fear to drive home these messages and to separate and to divide and to conquer us.

And every time they get scared enough, they can take away another right.

They can take away another freedom.

But that's why I say get involved in your community, in your local community.

Strengthen the local community and take that power away from the Fed.

You say the DEA is the number one money launderer in the.

What does that mean?

Well,

they do it under the auspice.

And talking about, like in relation to the Fast and Furious, in order to combat illegal firearms trafficking to the Mexican drug cartels, we were illegally trafficking firearms to the Mexican drug cartels.

So in order to combat money laundering, you know, by the drug traffickers, the DEA has devised the best way to investigate that is to actually launder money itself.

You know, it's like when I mentioned a cigarette trafficking case from years ago, and the ATF used to be much more involved in that stuff.

So, cigarette trafficking is where you go to a state and you buy cigarettes at a low tax, take them to a state and sell them that's much higher tax.

So, from like Virginia, you could buy $20,000 worth of cigarettes, put it in a Jeep Jeep Cherokee, drive it to New York City and sell it for almost 40 in a day, you know?

So it was always said that this, you know, every time you see this happening, you hear, oh, it's funding terrorism.

It's a funding terrorist case.

So you let it go on for a year while you're making this case and you're thinking, well, how much money did we fund terrorists over this year instead of just shutting it down?

So that's my point about the DA and the money laundering.

Like, how much money are you laundering to make a money laundering case?

If it's that, if it's so hard to launder money undetectably,

why are you doing so much of it in order to make a case for it?

Right.

So

let me take you to January 6th, and I know you weren't there.

Right.

I was not there.

You weren't there, so you don't know for sure, but you know the tactics.

Yes.

I remember January 4th, 5th, and 6th, I was on the air saying, don't go.

Don't go.

This just reeks of trouble.

Right.

Because everybody's emotions are so high.

And if you don't know who you're standing next to, you can be standing next to anybody that has a very different view of how the day should end.

And

people went.

Lots of people went.

I think this is my view on the sixth and forever is I think there were bad actors who do kind of want to overthrow the government.

I think there probably were a few people there that wouldn't have mind killing, you know, somebody like Mike Pence.

I don't know, but I saw the way they were breaking in to the, you know, they were, they looked more like Antifa than a Tea Party or a Trump supporter.

However, I don't know.

But I also think the vast majority that was there was not trouble.

And

we have now seen the largest investigation and manhunt in American history, and they've just said they're going to go for another 2,000 people.

Meanwhile, we can't find the guy on the scaffolding.

We can't find the guy who...

We have full shots of their face.

We have them on video talking on a phone.

and yet we can't seem to find them

ray apps i don't know who that guy is but i know that there was more video of him saying we got to take over we got to go get him than the guy who just got 22 years right who wasn't even there who wasn't there if i understand it correctly yeah

that leads to

conspiracy theories because that's all you have at this point you don't have the facts right it can quickly go from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact if you watch the videotape, which you're not allowed to do.

If you ask the DOJ, how many agents did you have there?

How many, were there anybody from the CIA or anything else there?

You've been undercover in large crowds.

Yes.

That's commonplace, is it not?

Oh, yeah.

Any doubt in your mind that there were lots of people on the ground that day?

No, none whatsoever.

It's standard practice.

Whenever you have a large gathering like that, you have undercovers in the crowd that walk around, keep their eyes and ears open.

They're in contact with uniform or through a command center.

And when you have someone that's an agitator or someone that's

stoked in the fire, then you make contact with them and you say, hey, pull this guy out.

Like

this person's causing something.

We need to calm the situation down.

And so a couple uniforms come in, grab that person out of the crowd and take them away, detain him, just remove them from the incident so things don't, you don't allow them to escalate.

And I mean,

it's what we do.

It's what we've done.

You got to figure.

I was a police officer in Northern Virginia, right outside of D.C.

for 11 years.

So

we had to do it all the time.

Not all the time, but pretty frequently because I was in vice narcotics.

Or once I got into vice narcotics, we were the undercover guys.

So we got sent not only to protests and to rallies, but concerts, sporting events, stuff like that.

You keep us in there and you're always looking for somebody that's agitating.

And that's

how you deal with that stuff.

Well, America America does not know that.

I don't think that's, I didn't think that was a big secret.

Like, of course, anywhere you go, like nine times out of 10, you can spot the cop anyway, especially if he's an agent.

He's got the, you know, the khaki pants with the cargo pockets.

Okay, so what you saw,

knowing that there had to be people there,

Knowing now that they had the information in advance that something, something was coming and they didn't pass it on, kicking up the food chain

were any of the standard practices did you see anything that you were like okay that's what we do yeah i wasn't like i say i wasn't there i wasn't in the weeds on it i have no idea what briefings took place ahead of time and what didn't um

but from what i i have seen on certain videos that are out there and and what i know about it now i find it difficult to imagine how a crowd that large was anticipated and more precautions weren't taken, and there weren't people in the crowd, and there weren't

teams readily available to deal with it.

I mean,

you know, DC, MPD, Metropolitan Police Department, used to handle all the riots, like everything that went to DC, how many riots happened in DC?

And this was years ago, decades ago, yes.

But they are the ones that learned the lessons the hard way on how to deal with that stuff.

For them, I mean, for it to just be forgotten for that event is

troublesome.

I don't understand how it would have happened.

And I understand the conspiracy theories, and I don't have answers to them one way or the other, but I know it doesn't.

There's a lot of questions out there that need to be answered, and it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to answer them.

Let me ask you: you know, I just talked about the people whose faces we have, we have them on videotape, really being leaders and preparing areas and saying, go in here, go in here.

They've never been on an FBI wanted list.

They've never been questioned.

And when we question and say, why haven't you looked for this guy?

Why aren't they at least on an FBI most wanted list?

And how come you can't find it after they tell us about how they can triangulate everything or a person of interest.

Right.

And

I just saw one guy was just identified, they said, because his ears were a little different.

And that's how they found him in Oklahoma.

His ears were different.

How is it that we're not finding these people?

Do you think that's...

We have full pictures of them.

And some of them on their phone talking to people.

Is there a way that you how did they not find Whitey Bulger for 20 years or however long it was?

I don't know.

What I can tell you is, I mean, obviously, I think if they wanted to find him bad enough, they could find him, especially if their technology is what they say it is and how easy it is to pick people out of a crowd.

Do you believe that?

That it is?

That it's that good?

Yeah.

If it is, they're using stuff that I'd never had.

They have assets from other three-letter agencies.

because nothing we ever had would do stuff like that.

Um

yeah, it's there's so many questions that are involved with that and it's

you're you're A T

F and E and E retired.

Uh, right.

Um, E is for explosives.

Yes,

pipe bomb.

Can you, can you fill me in on

how have we not found the pipe bomb people?

Yeah, I don't know because that's kind of our expertise.

Right.

Like we can trace components of every bomb.

And

what would you look if you had that pipe bomb?

What could you tell?

Well, you look at everything.

Once you get the lab reports for the kind of explosive or powder that was used in it, and that can narrow it down your search radius, like what you're looking for,

what kind of caps they are.

They have lot numbers on them a lot of times, so the manufacturers can tell you what stores they were sent to and sold in.

There's a number of different things, some things I don't get too specific in because we want to keep being able to find them.

But I think there's very few instances where we haven't been able to run down at least some really good leads on

where a bomb was manufactured or where its components were at least purchased, when and where.

And that can help you.

How close are we?

I believe we're maybe one major event away, and it scares the hell out of me.

How close are we to

a police state?

I think we get closer every day, and we're closer now than we've ever been in my lifetime.

And I don't think it's going to take much.

When COVID happened and the lockdowns and the mandates, I could not believe that

Americans fell in line that way.

I can't believe

that we're so

stricken by fear over these things now.

And so I mean our country was built on, you know, Rots in the Mountains.

Right.

And for us to just huddle down like that.

Shocking.

Yeah, and terrifying.

And but I realized when they did it and the steps that the federal government took and some state governments.

And then I thought, okay, it's only a matter of time before another scare happens.

And is that, you know, reasoning behind the war in Ukraine, you know, that they've, you know, the Russians are, oh, they're talking about using nukes now.

Putin's a madman, a madman.

If he doesn't stop at Ukraine, he's going to take all of Germany.

Meanwhile, we're moving nukes back into London

into England.

Right.

He said, I'll take that as a major escalation if you do that.

Yes.

And if, you know, and actually a lot of the things that happened prior to their invasion was, you know, based upon deals that we had.

Putin had clearly said, these are the things that I don't want.

The U.S.

said, okay, and then we started doing them anyway.

So it's, you know, it's that moment.

Like, are we the baddies here?

What are we doing?

And why are we trying to do it?

So, how close are we to the police state?

I think we're probably closer than most people realize.

And these indictments, the issues on January 6th, the current indictments and things.

You have a percentage of this population, whether you agree with them or not, that feel like they aren't being heard, that their voice doesn't matter, okay?

That they're not being represented by their government, that they're not cared for.

And now on top of that, you are going to

declare them essentially terrorist,

change the definition of insurrection, apply that to them, and

persecute them.

So it's like,

and whoever is doing this

needs to understand that, look,

You can, a man that feels like he has nothing less left feels like he has nothing left to lose, right?

right you can only push people so far i think they do know that and do and that's the question is that the point you know and it's

you know where does it end i don't know this is why i say yeah i think the most important thing that we can do when i was talking to your producer you asked me well what what does an individual do to try to help and

i got blindsided because

I didn't think there was anything.

But I've been thinking about it and thinking about it.

And the best that I can come up with is, like I said, just strengthen your community, you know, your small community.

Strengthen that.

Take that power away.

And by all means, if you have to, and I'm not advocating for anything, but be ready to defend it, you know, yourself, your family, your community.

Yeah, not,

I don't agree with saying, get them.

Right.

No.

But.

Protect and defend.

Right.

Protect and defend.

Yep.

Strengthen your community and be ready to protect and defend it.

Oh, and I just got to say about January 6th real quick.

Of the few videos that I've seen on that, there's one where this guy's like a cameraman, but he's got a helmet on and a vest and stuff like that.

And he's screaming at the other people.

He's telling them, oh, yo, you guys better telling the cops, you better be careful.

This thing's going to explode.

I've been in a bunch of riots.

This is like my fifth or sixth riot.

This thing's going to get bad.

It's going to get ugly.

So how many riots have you been in?

I've not been in any.

I've never been in any either.

Like, how does this guy end up at five or six riots when he's 22 years old unless you know about him ahead of time?

Which would fall under RICO Act, would it not?

I would think so, yes.

And I'd like to look into how he afforded to get there.

Or I could afford to get there.

Do you think,

I mean,

if I'm on the wrong side of this and I'm high up in justice,

I know what not to look for

because I know how the game's being played.

Yeah.

Last question.

Yes.

Donald Trump, most investigated person, I believe, in the history of the world.

There isn't an the five eyes all looked into him, at least.

China looked into every dug, dug, dug, dug, dug.

Every major

institution in the media all around the world.

Doug.

Every day.

Every day.

I've told him, I'm shocked.

I'm shocked.

I lived in New York City.

I watched how fast buildings went up.

I thought for sure there was going to be like, hey, so, you know, maybe we take care of some things, you know.

I really thought there would be something.

Right.

Nothing.

Nothing.

What is the plan here, do you think, watching the government?

They are

rushing to a trial with 12 million documents that the defense has to go through.

It has to start in March, the day before Super Tuesday.

Yesterday and the first day, they said the prosecution said it'll take us at least four months.

The judge said it's going to be an eight-month trial, which takes you to the end of October.

The president will testify.

He has to be there.

So he got him there.

Then they're trying to take the 14th Amendment.

and say he was part of this insurrection.

And Colorado is is now trying to take him off of the ballot.

And several, it won't be the last one.

For people who love democracy and are always standing up for the vote's got to be heard,

I can't imagine how this works out well

for anyone, unless you're an agent of chaos.

Right, I agreed.

I don't see how it does either, unless it's

because like I say, that portion of the population, not only are you going to do all that to them and make them feel insignificant, unheard, unrepresented, and their votes don't count, but now you're going to take away

who they feel is the person that can change things for them.

All right.

And

I think it's a powder keg, and I think it has the potential to explode very ugly.

And

I don't see anything good coming from it unless you're the agent of change.

Like, see, what change you're trying to seek, I don't know.

That's right.

It never seems to be clear.

What I've thought about is, you know, if the whole indictments in different jurisdictions and the rush to trials, they're just trying to get him convicted of a felony to disbar him from being president.

Right.

And that in and of itself is horrible enough.

But, you know, if it's something even more grandiose,

I don't know.

Like, this is a strange new world for me.

I've never seen anything like this.

And I'm trying to wrap my brain around events, you know, as they happen.

And remember, I'm just a little GS13, so sometimes

I know we've talked speculation on a few things.

I can speculate on anything.

The one thing I didn't ask you about, and I don't know if you have an opinion, I know you don't have any facts on it.

Come on, Jeffrey Epstein was a spy of some sort, wasn't he?

I mean, weren't we engaged in...

I mean, that just seems like,

you know, what we did to the Germans, you know, just get them on sex and you honeyhole them.

Yeah, you honeyhole them.

And you control everybody.

Yeah.

And

nobody seems to even talk about his little black books.

Right.

Or the videotapes.

Who would have those?

Where should those be?

Oh, I don't even know.

They should be in

whatever agency, I guess, officially handed his arrest, handled his arrest.

That was the Bureau, right?

Yeah, that was FBI.

Yeah.

You know, they're very efficient in their evidence logging, you would think.

That's where they should be.

Yeah, the whole Epstein thing is a deep, dark hole that

no pun intended.

But you're, you know, that I'm trying to understand and figure out.

It's not what's being reported.

It's not what it is on its face.

There's much more to it than that.

There has to be.

And I don't want to get Epstein for talking about it.

Right.

Yeah.

But

what I'm curious curious on the the reason why I'm curious about the tapes and the book

Hoover right

you have that information that that information should not be in one person or a team of people's hands right that is extraordinary power right

any confidence that it's not being used

yeah I have confidence that it's not being used and that the fact that the people that it hurts the most are in control of it, maybe that's the case why it's not being used.

I would almost argue that it would be a better state of the world

if a Hoover-S SB FBI had it, right, and leveraged it against everybody

would be better than the people that were directly involved having it by now having access to it.

So that implies that people in the government were involved in that.

No.

I mean, I think so.

That's merely my opinion.

But

I don't think that stuff happens with the names that have been floated around there without government involvement.

And again, it's the government.

It is so huge and it is so powerful.

And it has ultimately zero accountability.

American people think that there's accountability.

There is none.

There are so many black budgets and black projects.

And then even when there is a hearing, I used to think testifying before Congress was it.

Because I remember the whole Ollie North moment, you know, going up that that was the end-all be-all.

And then you get to a congressional investigation, having find myself in one.

And ultimately, you know,

they try, but it's, they did their best, but there's no enforcement, there's no teeth

in that bar.

And,

you know, I used to tell, I used to tell people when I arrested them, you know,

trying to get a statement.

And look, it's a rigged ball game.

By the time you see me, my case is done.

All right.

I've already got you.

I've got all the evidence I need.

I don't need you to say anything.

Okay.

It's fixed.

In the aspect of not that I did anything wrong, but it's I've done my job and I've done it well.

All right.

I'm not one of those agencies or cops that comes here and says, oh, it's not TV where I got to break them.

It's got to be a confession.

It's my job is done.

And it's already, it's fixed.

But now you realize, oh, the entire government is a rig ball game.

Like it's fixed.

It's the image of checks and balances anymore when in reality, it's all looking out for itself.

It's so parasitically infested with

different

interests and lobbyists and

I know it took us a long time to get there, but when you were first getting in, do you think it was as bad as it is now?

Well, see, that's a good question.

And I don't know the answer to that.

All I can tell you is my

stupidity or naivete was so much back then that I didn't pay attention.

Yeah.

And

that's what what I would like to do more than anything is to get people to pay attention.

Start paying attention.

Start asking yourselves, hey, wait a minute.

This is what I'm ordered to do.

Should I do this?

Like, is this the right thing?

Is this serving and protecting, especially cops and agents, you know, and then military and every

facet of society.

Right.

Ask yourselves, read the Constitution.

Read the oath of office that your federal employees that are sworn have to take and see if they're abiding by it.

Right.

Hold them accountable if they're not.

Know what it is.

Know what the Constitution says.

Know the reasons for the Declaration of Independence.

They lay it out in there pretty clearly.

I know I said last question two questions ago, but I have to ask you, 5 USC 3331, your t-shirt.

What is that?

That is the U.S.

Code section that codifies the oath of office for federal agents and federal employees that are sworn.

So if you are not protecting and defending your violation of that code.

And I encourage anyone to look it up and to read it, to know it,

and hold those people that are held to that oath, that are under that oath, accountable to it.

And I encourage the people that have taken that oath to take it seriously.

It means something.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate the time.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.