Best of the Program | Guests: Joe the Plumber & Barrie Schwortz | 7/28/23

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Today is an unbelievable show.

I kind of blow a gasket over the Trump persecution,

the things that are going on with Biden, RFK being turned down for Secret Service protection.

Why?

Why is that?

Our situation is so bad.

Our people in Washington are so corrupt if they're not literally brain damaged in some way.

Quite a rant coming on that.

Also, the Shroud of Turin.

And, oh,

the Democrats, they decide not to prosecute Sam Bankman Freed.

Why?

Carol Roth is here to talk about that.

And an incredible interview with Joe the Plumber.

You don't want to miss.

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You're listening to

the best of the blend back program.

Carol Roth is with us now.

She is

the author of You Vill Own Nothing.

And she is also a former investment banker.

She is recovering from all of those years.

Welcome, Carol.

Hi, Glenn.

Happy Friday.

And

hope you've had a good week.

It seems like one of those, you know, it's the wrong week to quit sniffing glue weeks.

It's just one thing after another.

It is crazy.

First of all, Joe Biden's case, Hunter Biden's case, falls apart.

And there's a story today out that is talking about how angry his attorneys are at this judge for what?

Doing her job?

Then, yesterday we find out that,

what's his name, Sam Bankman Freed,

is

being, the charges are being dropped for him on any kind of illegal campaign donations.

He gave tens of millions of dollars to the Democrats.

Tens of millions of dollars.

And he did it illegally.

He was doing it under other people's names, fake names,

and under his company, which he can't do.

But they dropped that.

Why, Carol?

Yeah, I mean, it's even worse than that.

The allegations were that he was using customers' money to make the donation.

So

it wasn't even just the fake names.

It was literally somebody had put their money with him as a custodian, and allegedly that's what happened.

But so let's take a step back and remind everybody who this Sam Bankman-Freed character is.

He was this 20-something wonder kid, you know, that just comes out of nowhere who's altruistic.

You know, he just wants to get rich so he can give it all away, Glenn.

And he does this from a $40 million penthouse in a tax haven called the Bahamas.

Absolutely nothing suspicious there, right?

And when you think about financial frauds, you know, there's two different kinds.

There's the ones that are, you know, try to stay away from the regulators.

They're very under the radar.

They try to stay, don't, they're not trying to draw attention.

And then there were ones that run directly towards the politicians, usually because the politicians are involved.

And I think about the 1MDB sovereign debt scandal that happened over in Malaysia as an example of that.

So what happened here is that you had these prosecutors who brought Bankman Fried up on all charges.

He was in the Bahamas at the time that he was charged, and the U.S.

signed an extradition treaty with the Bahamas.

Now, obviously, the U.S.

has a lot of leverage over the Bahamas, right?

If you want the Bahamas to turn somebody over,

it's not really that challenging to do it.

Correct.

This is the second time that they have dropped a charge, and both of them are related, in my opinion.

The first one was the violating anti-bribery statutes, right?

And the second is these campaign finance charges.

And if you think about that, they say, oh, well, that wasn't part of the extradition treaty.

Okay, but again, the U.S.

has massive leverage over the Bahamas.

If this is something that you wanted to either be in the treaty to start with or you wanted to pursue, this is not a difficult thing.

The issue is that there's a lot at stake.

You know, it would open up a huge deep dive into where all of this money went, you know, how it was used, if there was, you know, potentially any money laundering that was involved.

Clearly, a trail, a deep dive that a lot of very well-connected people who got this money didn't want to have happen.

And then there potentially would be a renewed call for the politicians to return the money.

A handful did, but many, many didn't.

And

just kind of a look into what's happening with

all these offshore accounts that allegedly Beckman-Fried was setting up and involved in.

So this is, you know,

if you believe in the simplest answer is the right answer here, the fact that you had both bribery and finance charges, it's because of his cozy nature with the politicians and the fact that they were all involved in this at, you know, various different levels, and they don't want that information coming out.

So, Carol, I look at the billions, hundreds of billions of dollars that we are sending to Ukraine.

And we know now, I mean, most people aren't talking about this and I don't know why, but on Wednesday in front of the judge, Hunter Biden said, yes, okay, I did take money from China.

So

all of the lies of the past that we knew were lies, at least anyone who's paying attention, now been confirmed.

He took money from Ukraine as well.

And this is a country we're sending hundreds of billions of dollars toward

and there's no oversight.

It is almost as if the biggest heist

is happening right under our noses and we see it, but we're not doing anything about it.

I think there's a very good chance that this was all just money laundering and putting this money.

Do you know how much of the world you could change with $100 million?

Can you imagine what you could change with $1 billion?

I mean, all of this untracked or untraceable all over the world.

Who's getting all this money?

You mean to tell me you don't think that Hunter Biden is a Renaissance man, that his amazing discretion makes him highly sought after to sit on international boards and lead international dealings.

Oh, and by the way,

to be an amazing painter that commands, you know, six figures for his paintings.

It is, it's so blatant.

It's so out in the open.

It is just,

it's almost like they're rubbing everybody's faces in it, and they're just seeing how far they can push.

And unfortunately, people are so wrapped up in the day-to-day nonsense that there really isn't any pushback against these issues.

I mean, I couldn't even begin to speculate what is happening with this money that we're sending over because there's so much of it.

It's entirely unaccounted for.

And it doesn't seem to stop.

No.

And who does that?

And now we have a guy who we know was taking other people's money and sending it to politicians and donating it in ways that are highly illegal.

And nobody's going to look into it.

I mean,

it's it's very hard not to be a conspiracy theorist and say

they're all in on a money laundering thing.

Something else is going on.

Yeah, again.

Allegedly, it seems that to be a realistic outcome, because how could it not?

And when you look at how hard they've been going after President Trump from the time that he came down that elevator to announce his presidency to

Exoday and all of the things that they, you know, these little things, many of them made up that they were going after, all the while doing many of the same things that they're accusing him of doing, or much worse,

it's just, it's beyond a two-tier system of justice.

It's, you know, if you are with us, you are going to benefit.

We're going to find a way to move this money around and get everybody paid.

And, you know, as I've always said that that Congress is a place where you legally launder money.

So this could be a legal laundering of it.

But

see, clearly, people are getting paid in a way that

our government was not set up to make sure that they were getting paid.

Correct.

So they dropped the charges on him.

The rest of the charges, is he going away for a very long time?

You know, I guess it depends on who he knows and

what they want to come out and what they don't want to come out.

I mean, if you think about back in December of twenty twenty two, Maxine Waters, who previously was blowing kisses at Sam Bankman-Fried in a hearing on crypto,

she put out that tweet about, oh, you know, you've been so candid in your discussions and we're so happy that you talk to the public.

I mean, when does somebody in Congress ever do something like that?

I mean, it's just so blatant and so bizarre.

So he's clearly incredibly well tied, and there's something much deeper going on here.

So whether he gets off, whether he gets disappeared, whether the camera in his jail cell stops working like, you know, so many others, Glenn,

or not, I think depends on the level of what has happened behind the scenes.

And, you know, it's like this onion.

Every time we peel back a layer, we're finding more and more.

There is much more going on here because of the level of the money we were talking about here and his cozy nature with all the politicians.

As I said when we started, usually with financial fraud, you don't want the attention of people who are regulators and people in Congress and those high profile people unless they're involved.

And that's what happened with 1 MDB and all of these other corruption issues.

So the fact that you have

all of these people who were running cover for him and you're not standing up and denouncing him, and now you're getting these charges dropped, says to me there's something deeper we haven't discovered yet.

That is terrifying, Carol.

Thank you so much.

Carol Roth, the author of You Will Own Nothing.

Will you hold on just a second, Carol?

Because I want to talk to you about the GDP here in a second.

But

before I go to commercial, I just, I have to say what she just said about the charges on Donald Trump.

Have you gotten the message yet?

You are not to stand up against the machine or they will destroy you.

That's the message that they are trying to send.

Donald Trump, I contend, is maybe the cleanest person ever to go to Washington.

This guy has been investigated by every intelligence agency both friend and foe more investigations have been done on that guy than anyone else and they have to make things

up to be able to charge

I mean it is

it's obscene it is absolutely obscene and they are doing it To make sure you understand

if we can do that to him that guy may go to jail why

because he wouldn't play the game with the rest of the machine

it is sick what's going on

i thank god for you i really do i would have such little hope if it wasn't for you standing up every day and being heard and and caring about it my gosh if i felt alone

don't ever feel alone there's millions of americans who are just as upset about this as you are.

We just have to continue to stand up and not accept the lies.

You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.

I want to tell you about a veteran.

A veteran who has served his country and then

served in an entirely different way.

Somebody that you know.

Let's call him Joe.

He started having problems in his stomach on September of 2022.

He tried to self-diagnose, thought maybe it was lactose intolerance or, you know, allergic to gluten or whatever.

Come December, the pain is so bad that he goes to the emergency room at

the VA center and he's sent home with pain medication, but no real answers.

The pain got worse and worse, and Joe went back to the emergency room.

They found then a mass on his pancreas.

The VA did a test, told him it was cancer.

Then they called back four days later and said, oh no, you know what?

It isn't cancer.

Then on January 11th, the VA called and said, no, it is cancer.

It's stage three pancreatic cancer.

So he goes through eight months,

I'm sorry, eight rounds of chemo.

But unfortunately, the cancer had spread to his liver as well.

The VA wouldn't work with him

and his wife.

They wanted to try naturopathic medicines as well.

And it was, this is the way we do things, and that's it.

You know, when you're talking about somebody's life or your own life, you don't want to leave any stone unturned.

So they started looking around the country and the world for alternatives.

And Joe and his wife said, God has answered our prayers.

Joe was accepted to Cancer Treatments of America, known as the City of Hope, where they do Western medicine and naturopathic medicine.

Unfortunately, as of July 26th, the new chemo has stopped working.

Now Joe's on a list for a new trial medicine for pancreatic cancer.

Unfortunately, there is not a current start date for the new trial.

They're trying to move to Wisconsin for be around more family and get more support for family.

And their three young, beautiful children.

His wife's name is Katie.

His name is Joe, but you know him as Joe the Plumber.

And he's on with us now.

Hey, Joe.

Hey, Glenn, thanks for having me.

You bet.

You sound a lot different than you did when we first spoke all those many years ago.

How are you holding up?

Oh, you know, every day is a blessing.

I wake up in the morning, I'm here, so that makes me happy.

But

you got good days and bad days.

Today is

a little rougher than some, but again, I'm here and I'm grateful for it.

Is it the pain, Joe, or is it the treatment?

Because you were violently ill all the time with the chemo, were you not?

Yeah, the chemo, that's that's one of the things my wife and I struggled with a lot when we first got diagnosed.

You know, do we do Western medicine?

Do we do all natural?

And, you know, we prayed a lot and talked a lot.

And we said, well, why don't we do both?

And so,

you know, we started doing the chemo, but at the same time, my wife has researched everything underneath the sun.

And she, there's so many Facebook groups out there and

organizations that will lead you down the natural path, sick route as well.

And so, you know, I try to do a little bit of both, but sometimes the chemo will keep you from taking pills or taking supplements.

You know, it makes you tired all the time,

makes you very sick.

And

I dropped over 100 pounds.

I went from 250, and right now I weigh 146 pounds.

How's the VA treating you?

Well, you know, there were some incredible people that we met at the VA, people that really liked their job, people that really tried hard.

But when it came to the oncologist departments, you kind of nailed them on the head when you were reading or talking about it earlier as, you know, this is what we do.

This is the way we do it.

If you want to do anything else, you're going to have to go outside of our scope.

You know, we would ask them about vitamin C treatment.

We would ask them about mistletoe.

And these are two things that they've been doing overseas for years.

And they saw some, you know, some good things from them, but it's nothing that the VA wanted any part of.

And, I mean, I even got my dander up a little bit and said, you know, listen, me being a plumber, I want to know everything about plumbing there is.

That way, when a customer comes to me and asks me about it, I have an answer.

When my wife and I come to you and talk to you about this, you know,

your guys' eyes glaze over and you don't even want to think about it.

And I just, it got me angry because it just seems that a lot of hospitals and big farm get in the way of

real

movement going forward to cure some of this stuff you know if they can't make money off of it they don't want to they don't want to research it

I know

so

Joe you have been very active you're active in your community you've been raising money

for a school you've traveled the country

just giving speeches for a long time because you were you were roped into politics about 2008.

And you have three young children.

How old are your children?

My oldest, I don't know if you remember, but I was a single dad for years.

So I have a 28-year-old son that I

raised by myself, and he's doing outstanding.

And then,

you know, the Lord blessed me with my current wife.

And we have a 10-year-old, an eight-year-old, and a five-year-old.

The oldest,

the 10-year-old's a girl, and the eight-year-old's a boy, and the five-year-old's another girl.

Tell me about Katie.

Oh, Katie, I've been calling her Wonder Woman ever since this has started.

She has been

such a rock for me.

I mean, between making sure that I get to church to

you know, running around, making sure I have a glass of water to doing all the research that she can.

I think she knows, sometimes I think she knows more than the doctors because there's her nose ain't in a book reading about cancer and the next step that we can do.

And she's taking care of either the three kids or she's taking care of my dad or she's taking care of me.

You're taking care of your dad.

In fact, you started to build a basement for your dad because your dad had an aneurysm, right?

Yeah, years ago, my dad had an inoperable aneurysm, and

the third best neurosurgeon in the world came along and said, hey, I think I can help you here.

And it was touch and go.

We lost him a couple times on the table, but he came through it.

But he still,

it didn't leave him in a position to care for himself as much.

And, you know, my wife just fell in love with my mom, who passed away from cancer a couple years ago.

She fell in love with my dad, and she treats him just like her own parents.

And she,

you know, she goes over and does his bills.

She goes over and does all his shopping.

She just

doesn't stop.

It just,

you know, everybody else has 24 hours of the day, and it seems like she's got 48 hours as much as she could stun.

So

you are,

there's been a

excuse me, there has been a

give-send go

that has been opened.

You just search for Joe the plumber, and they're trying to raise money to not only help with medical, but also to

you're trying to finish the basement for your dad, right?

Well, that kind of goes up in the air.

If we move to Wisconsin,

you know, my dad's praying about it right now, but there's not actually a lot of support for him there either.

If we we move, you know, he's got some sisters there in the surrounding area, but,

you know, Katie's just not,

Katie's worried that they wouldn't be there for him as much as he might need.

And so we're actually looking, you know, I mean, you know, Glenn,

I believe in God.

I'm a Christian, and I know God can perform miracles at any time.

And I truly believe that.

It's an incredible feeling knowing that.

But at the same time, thank you out of cancer is no joke and you know most people unfortunately pass away from it

and so as a husband and a father I just want to make sure my wife and children have the support they're going to need in case you know it goes the other way and so moving them to Wisconsin and having having her parents here and her two sisters here and the kids as cousins will really help

But it'll really help offset some of the pain and hurt that

I'm sorry, excuse me, but it'll really help.

So that's what we're trying to make happen right now.

It's one thing, I tell you what, it's amazing.

You got your friends and family, but it's incredible the amount of people I don't know who have reached out to offer prayers, to offer donations.

There are so many great people in this world.

And I've been thankful to meet a lot of them.

And some of them do anonymous donations.

And, you know, we,

it's so

you know it's just it's it's been incredible in that regards but yeah no I we need a

really focusing on a couple of things one is getting my wife and kids up here such that they'll have the support they need

as things move forward and

and we're still you know we're still looking for alternative medicines we're still

looking at different clinics around the country.

You know, I'm on one list for a trial, but

there's no date.

City of Hope is reaching out to some other hospitals in America and seeing if there's any trials that

I might be able to get.

And the one thing with trials is that

you have to fly to them or drive to them.

And right now, we've been driving from Ohio to

Illinois for the last you know, three and a half, four months, you know, getting

and you know, that it going through Chicago is not easy.

It's never easy getting through Chicago, but,

you know,

it's difficult, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's your life.

And so you'll do whatever it takes to,

you know, to keep that life.

It's precious.

Joe,

I've only got about a minute.

But I want to thank you for everything that you have done for the country and standing up and being brave enough and taking all of the hits.

I remember all of the hits that you took over and over and over again.

And just for being an average citizen and asking an honest question, do you have, you know, as you face this, do you have any advice or thoughts on

life?

Ultimately, I just pray more people come to God, Glenn.

You know, I've always, it's one thing that helped me through all this from day one was staying grounded, reading the good book, and knowing that God was in charge and I wasn't.

And so,

you know, if you need help, if you need strength, you know, God promised he'll be with us.

He doesn't promise an easy road, but he promised that he'd be with us.

And that's something that my family and I have leaned on for a very long time.

And so that's the one thing.

You can take strength from God and

know that there are a lot more good people out there than bad.

You know,

we have some differences out there, but ultimately people want to do good things.

And

that's been incredible to see throughout

this last almost year.

Joe, rest assured, if

a miracle doesn't happen,

that we are here for Katie and your kids, and

we'll make sure that they're taken care of.

I can't thank you enough, Glenn.

You've been very, very nice and

I just really appreciate your concern.

Thank you so much.

You're good.

Good man.

Thank you.

Joe the Plumber, you can go to GiveSendGo

and just search for Joe the Plumber.

That's givesendgo.com.

Search for Joe the Plumber if you can help the family out.

Back in just a minute.

You're listening to the best of the Glendeck program.

I have to tell you,

I met a gentleman a few weeks ago, and he gave me his card because he said, I am

the official documenting photographer of the Shroud of Turin when they did the last test on the Shroud of Turin.

If you don't know what the Shroud of Turin is, it is said to be the burial cloth of Christ.

And there's a lot of controversy about it because the carbon dating shows that it's not from the time of Christ.

It's like 800 or 1,000 years later.

And they can tell you that it's definitely not the shroud of Christ, but they cannot explain the image on the shroud.

It is almost a photographic negative of a body.

that has all of the wounds that Christ would have had.

They can't tell you what it is, but they can tell you what it's not.

Well, Barry talks to me, and then all of a sudden, one of my producers, who was taking Torah study,

hears about Barry in her Torah study, and she reaches out to Barry, and unbeknownst to me, she says, we got to get you on the show.

So

this day that I come in to tell everybody we got to book Barry,

you know, down in Texas, I'm in Idaho.

My producer says, hey,

we got to get Barry on.

I think he's going to be great.

And I said, have I already told you guys about him?

No?

Why?

I think it's a God thing that he's on.

His name is Barry Schwartz, and he is joining us now.

Hello, Barry.

How are you?

I'm doing great, Glenn.

Thanks for having me on the program.

You bet.

So,

Barry, you are

the official documenting photographer.

So you were up close and personal with the Shroud.

You took all of the pictures.

Were you a believer

that this was

the burial garb of Christ when you first started?

Absolutely not, Glenn.

I was a total skeptic.

I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home.

Although I'm a secular Jew and not practicing, I didn't really have any emotional attachment to the Shroud.

And my involvement mainly came from my background as a photographer and imaging specialist.

And so I was invited onto the team to participate in the examination of the Shroud.

We spent five days and nights non-stop working around the clock back in 1978 and performed the first and only in-depth scientific study of that cloth that's ever been done in its history.

Okay, so you were one of three

Jewish members of the Shroud team.

Were there non-skeptics on the team?

I'm sure that a few of the members of the team were less skeptical than I was, let's put it that way.

I think that most of the team members came from Los Alamos National Labs, Sandia Labs, Air Force Weapons Lab.

So these were hardcore scientists, and thank God for that, because if they weren't hardcore scientists, the whole world might have blown up by now.

So they were very meticulous and absolutely the most empirical scientists I've ever worked with.

Okay, so they did the tests and they said

the carbon dating is wrong, and it's not the Shroud.

The carbon dating didn't happen until 10 years after we examined the Shroud.

team examined it and our primary purpose was really to determine how that image was formed.

Is it a painting?

Is it a scorch?

Or was it made photographically?

And ultimately, the science eliminated all those possibilities.

So, as you said in the intro, we can tell you what it's not, but we don't know of a mechanism that can create an image on a piece of cloth with the same chemical and physical properties that we documented on the shroud.

So, does it look like there's?

I mean,

was it something that you were like, we can't explain it, but we can see somehow or another it's man-created?

Well, we don't believe it is.

There's nothing been added to the surface of that cloth.

And I mean, that was the first thing we looked for was any paint, pigments, binders, anything that would imply that something had been added to the cloth that would have created the image.

And we found nothing.

If anything, the image itself is made of yellow discolored fibers, and it's the concentration of those fibers in any given area that indicates the darkness of that area itself.

So there really was nothing added there.

So my initial response, even though I was totally skeptic, after about the first 15 minutes of looking at it with a 10x magnifier,

I knew that there wasn't any paint on the surface of that.

And ultimately our mass spectrometry and chemical analyses, x-ray analyses, all of that showed that nothing has been added, no pigments, no paints, nothing has been added to that cloth to create that image.

I have to tell you,

that's not

what I thought

the shroud of turin experts said.

I've always thought that the scientific experts deny that this is

you know, from the time period and it was definitely man-made.

It's not.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

You mentioned the radiocarbon dating, which was done 10 years after our team completed our work.

And for decades after that, the world said, well, the shroud must be a fake.

It took 27 years in the Freedom of Information Act to get the British Museum that was the overseer of the three labs that did the examination or did the radiocarbon testing.

It took 27 years for the British Museum to release the raw data, which is very unusual.

Historically, a scientist, once his work is published in a journal, will release the raw data so other scientists can either repeat the experiment, which is part of the scientific method, or perhaps take the information and try and go further with it.

So we finally got the raw data, and we can understand why they didn't want to release it.

It showed that the sample site, and there was only one sample taken, which is already bad science, it showed that that sample was inhomogeneous, meaning it was a strip that was cut, and there was one date at one end, and hundreds of years later at the other end of that strip.

So there was nowhere on that strip that we can claim gave us the date for anywhere else on that cloth.

And they never took a control sample from anywhere else.

So the radiocarbon dating.

So wait, wait, wait.

Wait, I want to make sure I understand this.

So this was like a repair made later on the cloth?

Correct.

Yep, there's evidence in that corner where the sample was taken that there's cotton interwoven.

And, you know, that goes against Jewish law.

It's called mixing of the kinds.

And you're not supposed to mix wool with cotton or cotton with the linen.

A burial shroud of someone of high stature is supposed to be pure linen.

And yet we found cotton in that corner that was ultimately radiocarbon dated.

And that implied that there was a repair or re-weaving done in that corner, and so they dated a repaired corner of the shroud, which could not give us an accurate date for anywhere else on that cloth.

Okay, let me take a quick break and then come back with you.

I want to ask you, how do we know that there wasn't carbon in the rest of it if we didn't take another sample of the shroud?

You can answer that when we come back.

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10 seconds station ID.

Yeah.

So we're talking to

Barry Schwartz, and he is the Shroud of Turin Research Project official documenting photographer.

He's also the Shroud of Turin Education and Research Association president,

and he has started Shroud.com.

First, let's go back to there's cotton and it should have been pure linen, and this is from a strip that looks like it was a repair for you know it may be done at a later date and that explains the carbon dating you say but how do you know that there isn't cotton through the rest of the fiber if you didn't test the rest of the fiber well during our examination five days and nights in 78

we carefully exam you know the shroud's 15 almost 15 feet long so while one scientist group was working at one side of the shroud or one end of the shroud, other researchers were evaluating other parts of the cloth.

And Ray Rogers, our lead chemist from Los Alamos National Lab, probably spent more time in front of that cloth than all the rest of us put together with a microscope examining fibers from every part of that cloth.

And we found no cotton anywhere else in that cloth, particularly interwoven.

We were wearing white cotton gloves and some of the white cotton from our gloves got onto the cloth, but that's modern cotton and distinguishable from ancient cotton

so why would the British Museum do this

well you know Glenn I it's hard for me to speak to this but I will say this that as soon as the results were leaked even before the their paper was published claiming the shroud was medieval the British Museum, or rather the Oxford Laboratory, one of the three labs that examine the Shroud, received a million pounds sterling from anonymous donors for debunking the Shroud.

And Dr.

Michael Tite of the British Museum left the British Museum and took a permanent chair at Oxford with some of that money.

So I hate to say follow the money, but perhaps that had some influence.

Okay, so you were a skeptic.

You didn't believe in it.

You're Jewish.

You didn't feel emotional when you first approached the shroud, which I would think I would.

Even if it isn't real, it is so inspiring.

And, you know, if somebody did it,

it's a miracle they did it.

We don't know, understand how they did it.

Right.

Well, look, how do you feel?

I think we all had reverence for the subject matter.

We all appreciated the fact that not only was this an object of scientific research, but it was also an object of faith for a billion or so people.

So we all had great respect for it.

And so although I didn't have the same emotional response that perhaps some of my Christian fellow team members might have had, we all treated it with the highest respect and regard and

acted professionally throughout.

Sure.

Now, how do you feel now?

Well, it took 17 years after we finished, and I had access, of course, to all the scientific research.

And after about 17 years, all of the questions that I had that had been unanswered became answered, and I had to resign myself to the fact that the most plausible explanation for this was that this is the burial shroud of the historic Jesus of Nazareth.

You know, you don't have to be a Christian to accept the historicity of Jesus and to accept that we might have an artifact of that man's life considering the impact he's had on this planet.

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