Best of the Program | Guest: Bill Gertz | 10/8/19

Welcome to the podcast of the Glenn Beck program.

Thank you very much, Stu.

You're welcome, Glenn.

Today, we have a little bit on the Joker.

It's the biggest movie in America, of course, and I went to see it last night.

I have my review and thoughts on all the media coverage on it.

Let's see if he agrees with me.

We also have Pat Gray, who comes on.

We're talking about Syria a little bit.

What's going on with the president?

Is it something that we should believe already?

Is it something that's definitely going to happen?

What's changing, and what do we need to know?

And the despicable treatment of the China situation by the NBA and their pathetic folding.

We go through that as well.

And we have Bill Goertz on.

He's got a book called Deceiving the Sky: Inside Communist China's Drive for Global Supremacy.

He walks through what is really going on in China and how they're interacting with us.

It's a frightening tale, and he's on to discuss that as well today on the podcast.

You're listening to

the best of the Blenbeck program.

Today, we're going to begin to take a further look on how unusual this entire impeachment process is.

Nothing is as it seems.

Last Thursday, I showed you everything the Democrats had been doing in Ukraine.

To get a baseline, we really should start there.

We did.

The entire episode is available on YouTube and also on Blaze TV.

But tonight on TV, we're going to take a close look at what started this whole thing, the whistleblower report.

Yes, again, the chalkboard is needed because there is nothing about this report that is usual.

From the absolute beginning, this process has been tainted by partisanship.

I'm going to show you how it's supposed to go and then show you how this one went.

You decide.

We're also going to show you the facts on the law firm that is now representing both the original whistleblower and now the second one that has come forward.

Everything stinks to high heaven.

Let's just say if you were reluctant to use the word deep state, you might be fully on board after tonight's show.

You don't want to miss it only on Blaze TV.

All right.

I'm excited about, you mentioned my Joker viewing yesterday.

I'm kind of more interested in another viewing party that happened in the United States of America last night.

Don't know what you're talking about.

I think you do know what I'm talking about because you mentioned to me off the air, and now I'm making you mention non-air.

That were things off the air now, wasn't it?

It was off the air initially, but do you not.

Does your audience not deserve the information that's important to the future?

I had permission to say about that last night.

Let's just say

you certainly,

you have the ability to speak in general terms.

Well, why don't you do it?

Well, I don't have whatever restrictions you have.

Let's just say that

I got an email

last night from

some

people on Capitol Hill,

and they were burning the midnight oil, and they were

They were all sitting together and

they were watching the special last night together.

People on Capitol Hill.

Uh-huh.

So just like maybe some Blaze subscribers came up to Capitol Hill and had their phones out and

watching it.

Could be.

Could be people that can do something about it as well.

But I can't say.

I don't know.

Well, you do know.

You can't say it's true that you don't know.

How was

Joker last night?

I was Joker last night.

Well, hold on.

I want to make sure we get a little bit further into this.

I have nothing to say here.

I have nothing to say here.

Do you think that there potentially is some, there might be some movement on what you talked about in the special?

Is that fair to say?

I wouldn't know, Stu, but I would imagine that there are people that are

possibly

thinking about

their own investigations.

I don't know.

I wish I did, and I wish I could tell you, but

how was Joker last night?

This is all you're going to give me.

That's all I'm going to give you.

That's more than I'm going to give you.

That's it.

I'd be surprised to hear you already gave it, so you can't take it back.

Hey, I would like to now hear about Joker.

All right.

I'll let you off the hook for the moment.

Okay, thank you.

Joker last night.

Went to go see it on your request.

Work time.

No, it wasn't.

That's not what work time.

And I will say I went to Nalamo draft house, which is a dine-in theater, some food also included in that work trip.

So just so you know when the expense report comes out.

All right, all right, all right.

Get to Joker.

Joker, I really, really liked it.

It was really good.

I got to say,

all of your,

I will say, very rarely does Glenn Beck provide an accurate movie review.

It is not something he does well.

He doesn't understand movies, doesn't understand films, doesn't understand art.

I mean, frankly.

Even as the 100th most important person in the world of art, as you were named by some art magazine

several years ago,

you know, I don't always agree with your movie choices.

But really, I think you actually outlined it really well.

And again, no spoilers here.

I will not give you any spoilers on this movie.

It is very dark.

Everything that I've heard about it, and it's funny because there's been a lot of fighting on both sides about like, well, actually, this is true and this is true.

Kind of everything I thought of, everything I've heard about it,

it was all wrong and right.

Because,

first of all, people presented it as this right-wing thing.

And this is something that this is not a spoiler.

It's been out there in that it's absolutely a left-wing movie.

No, no, no.

CNN said this is, this is white man.

This is the, what would they call it?

White man guilt or white man

syndrome where the white man is just tired of everything being taken away from him and given to other people.

That has nothing to do with it.

No,

it's Occupy Wall Street.

I mean, if you would go back to the Occupy Wall Street era, you will see so many themes and Antifa as well.

It's very much a movie.

The themes are almost identical to that.

And does not glorify it.

Yeah, I.

You know, I can also

understand

the

initial think-piece, you know,

I can too.

Burst we got where they talked about how this will be seen for these types of people on the left, by the way, largely.

Yeah, but it will be seen

by these types of people who are on the edge anyway as like a best case scenario for me doing something terrible.

Yeah, I think if you're mentally ill or in antipha, which I think are interchangeable,

I think you could see this as a trigger.

Yeah, and like that is not the responsibility of a filmmaker.

A filmmaker has a responsibility to make a good movie, makes a good film.

Doesn't matter.

Like, none of that matters to me.

You have zero responsibility as to whether you're starting a revolution or not.

Like, that's how I am an extremist on this one.

A person who's an artist, a person who's a commentator, a person who is a journalist, your job is not to micromanage what you think the reaction to your story will be.

Your job is to write the right stories.

Your job is to to write the right movie.

Your job is to write the right song, whatever it is.

And you can't sit here and think, well, I shouldn't put this part in because it might make some crazy person do something crazy.

But you can totally see, and this is, I thought this is a fascinating part of it.

You totally see how you would get that out of the movie if you wanted to.

But I thought it was fascinating in that, like, how many times have conservatives complained about themes in movies?

We've complained about, you know, you're pushing this agenda.

You're saying X, Y, and Z is going to happen coming out of a movie, whether it's, you know, pushing a, you know, whether it's gay rights agenda or some crazy feminist agenda or some crazy liberal agenda.

We complain about this often, and we're always laughing out of the room.

Look at how Buck Beck Mountain turned all the cowboys gay.

They're all gay now.

They're all gay now.

Yeah.

I mean, I live in Dallas.

I know.

And

it's one of those things where they constantly laugh us out of the room whenever we say, hey, there's a theme in this movie and it might be influencing the way people think, the way people, you know, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

Only in humanity to animals

and smoking.

Right.

And here's an example where they're on the exact opposite side, where they're saying, well, you know,

this is, of course, going to influence people because they see it, they are able to paint this thing as, well, it's right-wing violence somehow.

Again, there's nothing in the movie that would indicate right-wing violence at all.

He's just, I mean, the only thing is the left, and this is so revealing about how generalist they are in their thinking, is they just see, well, there's been people, a couple, who have been loners and dangerous people who have done terrible things that have associated themselves with the right.

I mean, I would argue more with the left, but whatever, they only see the right-wing ones.

And so they're able to say, well, this guy's a loner and therefore he's right-wing.

When there's no, I mean, he doesn't, he's no wing.

I mean, it's not a political movie, we should point out.

But it is a fascinating thing that when the media wants to see something that can hurt the right, movies are influential.

They're moving opinion.

They're making people do things.

When it's something where the right is concerned that the opinion might be moved by the left, then it's like, what are you talking about, you weird prude?

How can you think that a movie would affect people the way they think?

You guys are just paranoid.

We're not doing that until they admit it five years later, right?

But it was

separating the two out.

Number one, it was a really good movie.

really well done.

Great film.

Joaquin Phoenix is as good as everybody says he is.

I mean, it really is how it's been kind of covered.

And secondarily, you can see the themes kind of everyone's talked about.

Where everyone from the initial think piece wave of like, it does,

if you're already psychotic and you're sitting in your room considering shooting up a movie theater.

You can see how

it would feel like, wow, like this could happen to me, this wonderful, glorious thing where it's being glorified.

On the other side, if you're a sane person, you're going to see this as, well, this is a very dark, awful person doing very dark, awful things who was, you know, certainly pushed in an ugly direction.

And that sometimes you do feel bad for him.

The best movies are ones where they can do that, right?

Where they can paint the full sort of breadth of a character where you're, it's not just this easy thing where I hate X.

Yeah, it's not easy to

fall into a vat of acid.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

That's what I like about this is

he is

he's real.

You know there are people like this out there.

And he's real.

And you could see this actually happening in real life, all the way to the green hair and the outfit, right?

It makes sense in real life.

And he plays a very sympathetic character

for

three quarters of the movie.

and you hear him.

And what the media should be talking about is how people don't feel as though they're heard.

They can't talk about that because they're on their own agenda and they're not listening.

They're not listening to half of the country, Brexit.

They're not listening to the voters in England.

And so that's the real problem because he wouldn't have been that way

if people would have listened to him and treated him with some some basic dignity and respect.

And we've seen that before.

It doesn't always work.

I mean, a lot of some people, there are mental issues.

Well, and he's deeply mentally disturbed.

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting thing that when you talk about mass shooters, one of the things they talk about specifically, and it's one of the reasons why I don't ever say their names, you know, is because...

These guys go through their whole lives with the main complaint of their life being nobody listens to me.

And then they see that when they commit a mass shooting, it's the one time everybody's interested in what they think.

No spoiler, but what he writes in his diary.

Yeah, right.

I mean, that's sure.

And then they go back to that over and over again.

And that's one of the reasons why I don't want to ever give anyone that satisfaction.

I don't want anyone to know.

And I think it's what the media should do, I believe, because it's not relevant information either.

It's not important what their motivation is.

It's important to investigators.

It's not important to you and I.

All right, can we just talk about the storyline here in a sec?

Well, yeah, you've already, you're all, I don't want to give any spoilers, though.

I don't want to give any spoilers out either, but I just want to.

Well, I don't, I don't.

You don't want to give any spoilers out, and yet you came after me with what's going on, what was happening in Washington last night.

Well, that's not a spoiler.

That's an important development of the country.

This is a movie spoiler.

That's a spoiler.

But I want to know the end of that one.

I'm not giving the end of either of them.

The best of the Glen Beck program.

Hey, it's Glenn, and you're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

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You're the president of the United States, and

you truly believe that, because I think you do, and I do.

I don't know about Stu, he's still a little bit of a

neocon, but

I don't dare to be accused of that one.

You don't spend enough time on Twitter.

So

here's the thing.

If

I believe, you believe, president believes, we've got to change our policies.

We've got to stop getting entangled in everybody else's war.

And we can't plant democracy in places where they don't understand it, nor do they want it.

And we're not the world's policemen.

Well, we got ourselves roped into this one, so we're there.

Well, yes, we are.

But maybe it's time to come home.

Well, if we pull out, it'll cause a vacuum.

Yes, it will.

It will.

But when can we pull out?

How do you get there from here?

Right.

And so I think that the advice around the president is most likely, you can't, Mr.

President.

You can't because of this and this and this.

Well, okay, I'm just telling you, I'm going to pull out at some point.

Where do, give me away, give me away.

Nobody gives me away.

Well, okay, guys, I asked you six months ago.

I asked for some plans.

It's your job at the Pentagon to come up with some plans to get us out of there.

I'm telling you, get us out of there.

Yes, but Mr.

President, the State Department and the Pentagon, they both think that this is, I don't care.

I'm the president.

Give me a plan.

And when they don't give him a plan, that's when he says, goes on Twitter.

Fine, we're out.

We're out.

I'm going to force the issue.

Yeah, I think that's probably what happened.

And look, he's

part of the business.

But tell me what we do.

Do we fight their war?

Do we fight another war?

Do we get into a fight with Turkey?

No.

But Turkey doesn't want to fight with us either.

So you just, you take a stand and you say, no, we're not doing that.

And what you're committing to here, right, is this is happening.

If it happens, we're not going back in any way.

Out of your way and you do what you will to the Kurds.

You know, Trump tweeted about how he would basically seemingly put sanctions on Turkey if they did something bad, right?

Like he would go to that route.

I mean, that's probably our fallback, right?

If they do something that the president doesn't like, he's going to come after their economy.

Really well.

Well,

they've done some damage in Iran.

They're not completely ineffective.

But I mean, I think what you're saying here, it's like you would just want just want to tell the Kurds, look, we're leaving.

If you want to leave too, probably a good time.

But if you want to stay, you're fighting your own battle.

That's essentially what's happening here, right?

It's essentially what happened.

We'll back you up on the financial stuff, but we're done with this.

Now, and it's important to understand that our American troops in Syria are not on the front lines.

They're not fighting these battles.

You know, the Kurds really are fighting this war for us.

We are helping advise.

We're helping with airstrikes.

We're helping with

tools and resources.

But we're not really ⁇ it's not like our troops are under constant fire in Spain.

No.

And it's also important for our troops because

not al-Qaeda, ISIS is not dead and will come back.

And Iran is moving now towards the Mediterranean.

And they've got 15,000 ISIS fighters in prisons right now.

What's going to happen to all of them when we pull out?

Are they going to remain or are they going to be set free again?

Eventually.

Are those the only two options?

Well, you could kill them.

Okay, so there's two out of the three I like.

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Thanks.

First, here is Ellen from yesterday, Ellen DeGeneres.

She was this weekend with George W.

Bush in Jerry Jones Skybox here in Dallas, Texas, watching the Cowboys.

Well, people went crazy on her.

Crazy.

The social media just tore her apart.

Here's what she said.

Listen.

But during the game, they showed a shot of George and me laughing together.

And

so

people were upset.

They thought, why is a gay Hollywood liberal sitting next to a conservative Republican president?

Didn't even notice I'm holding the brand new iPhone 11.

But a lot of people were mad and they did what people do when they're mad.

They tweet.

But here's here's one tweet that I loved this person says Ellen and George Bush together makes me have faith in America again.

Losing the applause

You're not hearing that on the view are you?

Exactly

Here's the thing.

I'm friends with George Bush in fact I'm friends with a lot of people who don't share the same beliefs that I have We're all different and I think that we've forgotten that that's okay that we're all different for instance I wish people wouldn't wear fur I don't like it, but but I'm friends with people who wear fur and I'm friends with people who are furry as a matter of fact.

I have friends who should tweeze more, and I have, but just because I don't agree with someone on everything doesn't mean that I'm not going to be friends with them.

When I say be kind to one another, I don't mean only the people that think the same way that you do, I mean be kind to everyone, doesn't matter.

Okay, now let me give you a second example.

Here's Kanye West, he's done another one of his Sunday services.

The crowds are diverse and massive, massive, and it's hard to understand, but But listen to him here.

That's the Republican Party that fails.

Oh, no, no, no, no.

Because I chose my right.

In America, we got the right, right?

We got our own right to our own opinions, right?

The top two might tell me because of my color who I'm supposed to pick as the president.

You black, so you can't like Trump.

I ain't never made a decision only based off my color.

That's a form of slavery.

Lential slavery.

That's a form of slavery.

So you have now

two people, pretty popular,

that are coming out, and they're not sitting down.

They're not sitting down.

This is the new wave that is coming.

This is the beginning of the pendulum swinging the other direction.

People do not like this

hyper-partisanship where everything is political.

They don't like it.

And there is a freight train coming.

And these companies don't see it.

They don't see it.

Going to the Ellen thing here for a second, beyond the fact that it's a nice moment that I like,

I like the fact that this stuff can happen and she's so good at it.

But you have to remember that in our society over the past 20 years,

has there been someone who has been more persuasive culturally than Ellen?

No.

Think of when she, you know, she comes into our public eye and she's the, she winds up, you know, she becomes a star on her own show.

She announces that she's gay.

And the initial reaction is like, you know, not necessarily overwhelmingly positive.

But it wasn't bad.

You know, people liked her.

But then she started kind of doing the show, and it was all about that.

You know, it seemed to be that was the focus of every episode, and people kind of got, didn't weren't really into it.

And that's, hang on just a second.

That is where I think America still is.

Look, I don't mind you.

I don't care.

Just don't, can you not make it about everything?

Right.

But what did she do?

She could have gone the activist route after that, I think, and made a case and probably been very popular and raised lots of money for liberal causes by coming out and saying, they shut my TV show down because blah, blah, blah.

Instead, she's been friendly with everyone I mean she you know her show has we've had charity auctions uh here where her show has donated like free passes to go see it she's she's done all sorts of things to make sure her producers have reached out to

people on this program many like I mean it's it's not a they're not they're not the buzzsaw and they're trying

They're presenting themselves as human beings who are likable.

And over time, you've seen, I mean, just look at the numbers on

the issue you'd think she'd care about, gay marriage, has gone from an issue where it was in, you know, in the 90s, it was about 20%, and now it's about 60, over 60% popularity.

Now, I'm not saying Ellen's obviously completely responsible for that, but her approach has been far more effective than these activist groups.

And there's something there for us to learn, too, right?

In that not just is it a nice moment, it also works.

It's persuasive.

People, when people like you, they tend to agree with you more.

And if we wind up just being a group of people who, you know, who have great arguments, but everybody hates, it's not going to be, it's not effective.

It's tough because I think a lot of times we get into that sort of day-to-day back and forth of whatever issue is out there today, we have to win that and we have to fight.

And we, you know, look, you've got to stand up for what you believe in.

But how you do it is important too.

And if you look at the long term, if you take a longer term approach, not just winning today's tweet battle, you wind up, I think, doing things differently and over a longer period of time can actually, you know, win these battles and make real change.

And look, do what you can do.

You're not going to win every one of them.

But I think to put the best face possible on the things you believe in, you actually have to put on the best face you have possible.

I think we're at the beginning of something, and I think the left, if they're smart, will hijack it eventually, make it their idea.

But I think they are so far gone, I don't know if that's going to happen.

Can I give you one more example of this real quick?

What is almost probably the most effective video we've seen in years happen last week was the video of the kid who was on the stand.

His brother was murdered, killed by a cop.

She was convicted of murder, who went into the wrong apartment after going on a long day of duty.

And afterwards, she said, he said, look, I don't even want you to go to prison.

I don't,

I love you.

I want the best for you.

And hope you look to Christ.

And can I give you a hug?

And then he came down and he gave the person who killed his brother a hug.

And then the judge came down and they all hugged.

And it was like an incredible moment, right?

Was that more effective or was the reaction from activists more effective?

Listen to this.

The moment of compassion where the judge came down off the stage and gave him a hug.

was fiercely debated in the days after the trial.

Some praised it as a rare and much-needed moment of humanity.

Others criticized it as a potentially unconstitutional act and wondered whether a black defendant would receive similar attention in the criminal justice system.

Now, of course, they, you know, point out that the judge was black, so I don't know exactly.

And then you get this.

It was way out of bounds, said Andrew Seidel, a lawyer with the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which filed a complaint against the judge in Texas with the State Commission of Judicial Conduct.

The group argued that Judge Kemp's decision to preach the Bible violated the First Amendment because

she gave him a Bible.

Who wins that?

Which side?

Of course, right?

Way more effective than the angry response that is just like, I don't like, this is clearly a good moment.

These are moments that you should celebrate and try to replicate, not come down on the other side.

That's why I think this approach to the impeachment is so important.

Yeah.

The one we have is not defending anybody, not getting into anybody's face.

It's just, hey, here are the facts.

Here are the facts.

This is what Obama did.

This is what Chalupa did working with

the embassy and the DNC.

This is how the

people that went to jail in the Ukraine were convicted for interfering with our election on behalf of the DNC.

Just, Donald Trump doesn't need to be mad.

He really doesn't.

He just needs to explain exactly what happened when it comes to the other side.

And look, I don't, I don't, you know, look, if you were grossed out by what the president said, okay,

I can see that.

I can see that.

If you thought that it was illegal,

well, let's talk about that.

Let's, we should look at that.

We need more.

I don't see it yet, but I can give you more information.

Yeah, I don't see it, but okay, we'll talk about that.

I want to make sure that we we turn over every stone.

But in doing so, you got to kind of turn over every stone.

And look at this: the ones that we don't have whistleblowers on, we have the actual facts, and they still, they still

are not all of the facts.

There's still stuff that's happening and have happened in Ukraine that we don't have, but no one will do the investigation on.

You don't have to be angry, you just have to state the facts.

That's what that guy did.

I don't want any kind of harm to come to you.

I know your life will be changed if you take Jesus in your heart.

And I just, I love you, and

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but I want you to know there's a pathway out.

That's all he's saying.

Those are the facts.

We can stick there.

But you got to be solid on the facts.

You can't do what the left is doing.

You can't be boycotting people because of bathrooms and then saying, Hey, everybody, shut up.

China is a good place when

they're exterminating people.

It doesn't work.

You'll have no credibility.

And I think this is going to come to an end.

When it starts, I think it's going to come crashing down quickly.

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Bill Goertz, national security columnist for the Washington Times, senior editor at the Washington Free Beacon, and has been with the Times since 1985, author of six books, four of them national bestsellers.

He has really done his homework on China, and there couldn't be a better time for this book to be coming out.

Welcome to the program, Bill Gertz.

Hi, Glenn.

Great to be on the show.

Yeah, great to have you.

So, Bill, first of all, I have to ask, the title of the book is Deceiving the Sky.

Can you explain what that means?

Yeah,

it comes from ancient Chinese strategy.

The Chinese communists today, despite being communists, are steeped in ancient strategy.

And this dates to, everyone is familiar with Sun Tzu, the guy who said, the acne of skill is defeating your enemy without firing a shot.

Well, there's also a book from the same period called The 36 Strategies.

The first of those is Deceive the Sky to Cross the Ocean.

And it's a story about a Chinese general in this warring states period where he had to convince the emperor to go to war to a neighboring province.

And basically he deceived the emperor into getting onto a boat and going across.

And the emperor had to decide, does he turn back or go to war?

He goes to war.

So the meaning behind this is that to defeat your enemy, you must be willing to deceive the sky.

And in China, the emperor is considered God.

So you have to even deceive God in order to achieve your goals.

And this is exactly what Communist China is doing today.

Boy, between Islam and China, everybody seems, and Russia, everybody seems cool with lying to get their way.

And unfortunately, I think we're adopting many of those strategies.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

No, Well, I was going to say, deception is the key to understanding the threat from China.

They are steeped in deception.

They've deceived us for the last 40 years into thinking they're not a threat, that they're a benign power, and that if you just be nice to them, that they'll turn into this free, open society.

It was a gamble that totally failed.

Now we've got this

emerging semi-superpower that wants not only to rule the world, but in order to do that, to defeat the United States.

I find what's happening with our corporations today terrifying.

Terrifying.

They know what this country is.

They know what they're doing, especially the tech companies.

They know exactly what China is doing.

And it seems the almighty dollar is greater than anything else to these people.

Well, I think we've seen that in the NBA, the craven NBA appeasement of China, where they basically said that they were going going to first one of their executives promoted democracy in Hong Kong and then the entire NBA kow-towed to Beijing and it's just horrible.

This is the future if we don't push back against communist China.

All right.

So explain to people who are like, ah, China, it's not so bad.

Explain why we should care about them.

Well, like I said, we've had this 40-year gamble that if we just engage with China and trade with China, that they'll become a benign power.

And that's been an utter failure because the first thing, in Deceiving the Sky, I focus a lot on communist ideology.

I even have a chapter that goes into how communists lie.

So lying is a key feature of their system.

And they've lied about what their goals and aspirations are.

And again, they see the United States as their main enemy.

They have this massive conspiracy, they believe that there's a massive conspiracy by the United States and the West to contain socialist communist China.

And I've tried to highlight in all of these areas from ideological threats to financial threats to military threats to intelligence threats.

It's across the board.

I've been covering this for over 30 years and it's just, like I say, it's becoming a greater threat every day.

Like I said, this NBA case is just an egregious example of appeasement of this communist dictatorship.

So how are they specifically a threat to us?

Well, militarily,

they have said that they are developing weapons and capabilities like cyber attacks and lasers that can do incredible damage to us.

And like I say, I outline a scenario in the book where China could, this is a fictional scenario, where China could actually launch a global Pearl Harbor missile attack against all the ships in the U.S.

Navy and just totally knock them out.

So, they're developing capabilities in preparation for a future conflict with the United States.

Another alarming area is in the area of cyber.

The US intelligence agencies have detected that China has been engaged in a cyber attacks across the board on inside of our system.

They're looking at basically how to map our electric grids so that if there's a crisis, they get inside of that grid and they shut down the electricity.

You know, we have 16 critical infrastructures, transportation, electric, all that.

But when you come down to it, there's really only one critical infrastructure, and that's the electric grid.

And we know they've been inside of it mapping it and preparing for future attacks.

And play devil's advocate, Bill?

Sure.

I hope we're doing the same thing to them.

Well, I hope so too.

And I have not heard what we're doing, but the problem has been, and again, that would be an intelligence function.

The U.S.

government has been engaged in a massive intelligence failure related to China.

And that failure is that they have under-assessed it.

I can remember back in 1999 going to the DIA and getting a briefing on the Chinese military.

And then afterwards,

this colonel came in the room and said, the general would like to see you.

The general was the director of the DIA.

And we sat down in a windowless conference room, and he said to me, he said, Bill,

China is not a threat.

And I was shocked.

And I said,

Why do you say that?

And he said, Well, because of their statements.

And, well, it turns out that two years later, there was a Chinese spy working inside the Defense Intelligence Agency.

And the general was reflecting those views.

So, this is how China has influenced our views of their system.

Talk to me a little bit about

the China 2025 and China 2020.

One internal looking, if I'm not mistaken, and the other is external, correct?

Well,

there's a number of different programs.

The China 2025 was their economic program to basically corner the world market on all of the high technology areas,

most notably 5G.

They have other programs here called the Thousand Talents Program, where they're siphoning off and hiring scientists and others to go back to China and give them that expertise.

And after the White House under the Trump administration revealed this China 2025 program, guess what?

They cited, uh-oh, we better not talk about this anymore.

We tipped our hand.

Now the West knows what we're up to.

So they kind of made a mistake in revealing that.

And China 2020 is the control of their people,

which I don't think people understand their social credit system here.

I don't think you can't say, hey, we love China and we just want to do business with China and expect us to have an open and friendly relationship when they are really tracking and imprisoning their entire population.

It's Hitler's dream system.

It is a total, I call it high-tech totalitarianism.

I was in

Beijing in June of 2018 with then Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, and I felt like it was an information desert.

You couldn't access the Internet freely.

You couldn't get social media.

You couldn't go on Google and do searches

that we do so commonly every day.

They are into total control.

And again, this goes back to the Clinton administration during the 90s where Clinton was a believer in unfettered engagement.

He said, let's give them all this high technology.

He said, trying to

control the Internet would be like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall.

Well, the Chinese are very close to nailing Jell-O to the wall in terms of controlling the Internet.

And if I'm not mistaken, he was the first one to sell them a supercomputer.

Well, it was across the board.

I like to point out to people that under this engagement policy, one of the worst global security failures took place, and that was under Clinton.

They decided we were going to share nuclear cooperation with the Chinese.

So we sent our nuclear weapons laboratory scientists to China.

They sent theirs to the U.S.

and within a few short years the CIA concluded that China through espionage obtained secrets on every deployed warhead in the U.S.

arsenal.

They then spread that technology to Pakistan, and then Pakistan further spread it through the AQCon nuclear supplier network to North Korea, Iran, Syria, and Libya.

And we learned this in 2003 when we took down the Libyan nuclear program.

There were Chinese language documents on how to make a small warhead for a missile.

I can't think of a greater

disaster for U.S.

and global security than trading nuclear cooperation with the Chinese.

So I want to go to kind of what you're talking about, espionage.

But it's espionage on a global scale.

And here in America, I don't think people really understand how much they have stolen from us and what the ramifications are.

We'll go there with Bill Goertz in just a second.

The name of the book is Deceiving the Sky.

If you want to know what China really is,

you know, you happen to be playing ball for the NBA, you might want to pick this book up before you make an apology.

So they have been stealing technology from us

like crazy.

Can you give us a highlight of this?

Sure.

Yeah, first off,

the White House put out a report last year, and the title was China's Economic Aggression Against the United States.

There was a big fight in the White House.

The pro-China traders said, oh, you can't say that.

You can't say economic aggression.

And they said, well, yes, we can.

And one of the reasons was, is they outlined in this report that China is obtaining between $250 billion and $600 billion annually in American intellectual property and high technology.

No nation can survive, especially when our economy is so wedded to the high-tech sector.

So

this gives you a sense of how serious the problem is.

Aaron Powell, and it's not that they're stealing

books from us.

They've always just taken, I've got a Chinese copy of Harry Potter that's not Harry Potter, but it is Harry Potter.

They don't care about things like that.

But they are going even to places where you're building turbines and they didn't know how to build a turbine.

And they'll say, okay, we'll buy these turbines from you, but one of our people has to be there to witness the whole thing.

When they do, they hack into the site,

they take all of the technology, all the know-how, and then they can't, in this particular case, they canceled the contract on the turbines.

Yeah,

it's unbelievable the scope of the intellectual property theft and acquisition.

I mean, it ranges from government secrets, and I highlight that in the book, about how they stole the C-17

design information worth $3.4 billion from Boeing, and then they went out and built their own Y-20 transport, the same thing.

They also stole secrets on our fighter jets.

So on the commercial side, again, it's, again, a staggering amount.

Trump has done something very unique.

He has basically said, look, we're not going to allow this kind of theft to take place.

And And it was allowed to happen under successive Republican and Democratic administrations.

They looked the other way, they said nothing, and it continued to happen.

So Trump is saying, just like we did in the latter stages of the Cold War against the Soviet Union when we blocked Western and U.S.

technology, he's saying, okay, let's see what kind of a Chinese economic miracle can exist without stolen U.S.

technology.

And my guess is we're starting to see a kind of decline in the Chinese economy.

So I think it's kind of working.

I will tell you this.

I'm big time against tariffs.

But what he's doing in China, I generally agree with.

5G

and Huawei

is potentially deadly to the West.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, we are in a real national security race for this new technology.

You know, the thing to understand about 5G, it's not just a jump from 4G to 5G as the next generation.

It's really a quantum leap in the ability to move information and data at ultra-high speeds.

And that has a huge impact both commercially and for national security.

If you think of 4G as being, because it is, it's a pipeline of information.

If you think of that as a garden hose,

5G is a garden hose the size of the channel.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And they're trying to corner the market on that.

And the way they're doing that is, again, it's part of their strategy known as the Belt and Road.

They're working in underdeveloped nations to get those nations to buy into Chinese 5G infrastructure, which is like repeater cells and that kind of thing.

And once they do that, they will have access to that data.

The military is really scrambling to try and figure out a way to prevent China from cornering the market on 5G because it's going to have a significant impact on the ability to do military operations anywhere in the U.S.

or to defend the country against attacks if the Chinese control worldwide the 5G networks.

And they control all of the information.

They'll be able to hack anything if their spine is

where all of the information is traveling on.

Correct?

It's both intelligence as well as the ability to cut off or stop the use of 5G.

If they control the infrastructure, for example, they could cut off 5G,

the military's use of 5G, somewhere in the United States, which would again cripple us, just like they could...

cripple our satellites by firing missiles at maybe like a dozen or so satellites they could cripple it.

So these are the things they're doing.

It's really a Cold War with China, and yet there's only one side waging it, and that's Beijing.

Are we getting better with Trump?

Oh, absolutely.

It's been a tectonic shift.

I point out in the book that early in President-elect held a meeting at Trump Tower early after he was elected, and he brought together all the top tech executives, and he asked them what their concerns were.

And all of them said, you have to do something about China stealing our technology or we're not going to be able to survive.

All right, more in just a second.

The name of the book is Deceiving the Sky Inside Communist China's Drive for Global Supremacy.

The author is Bill Goertz.

The Blaze Radio Network.

On demand.