'A New Person To Hate?' (Dr. Jordan Peterson & Charlie Warzel) - 2/23/18

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Glenn.

Beck.

Hey, everybody.

We have somebody else to hate today.

We have somebody new.

Oh, thank goodness, because I'm getting so tired of hating the same people.

There's somebody new to hate.

The former deputy Scott Peterson.

Have you heard about him?

He's the sheriff's deputy.

We can all rally around our hate for him.

He resigned yesterday after video surveillance showed that he was armed and stationed at the Stoneman Douglas High School while the shooting took place last week.

Instead of immediately addressing the target and putting an end to the rampage, Peterson cowered behind a concrete column in a stairwell.

The sheriff of Broward County, there is something wrong with the sheriff.

Mark my words, something is wrong here.

The sheriff of Broward County suspended Peterson without pay pending an investigation, but the officer beat him to it.

Peterson, knowing his fate, resigned and retired yesterday.

This morning, police officers line Peterson's home.

They're guarding against anyone who wants to harm Peterson.

And that's a lot of people.

The officers themselves probably don't want to protect this coward.

And I will tell you this.

This is an example of the police doing their job, doing things.

They protect people all the time that they don't feel a conviction inside to necessarily defend.

I can't speak for the police, but I will tell you this.

Before we take up our pitchforks and torches and charge his door, We've got to do something.

He's to blame.

Let's remember something.

We We weren't there.

As much as we'd like to think that we'd be brave and execute a single kill shot to the Stoneman shooter,

before he could take the 17 lives, how would that really play out in real life?

Would we be brave?

Would we have the courage?

I know we all hope we would.

But none of us know until we're actually in the situation.

I am not defending Peterson's gutless inaction.

I think he should have used his training to save lives that day, but there are very brave people that go to war, that think they can do it, and they freeze at that moment.

What I'd like us to remember is

thank God

we aren't him.

Thank God we weren't him.

We don't know what was going through his mind and we we don't know what we would have done.

Peterson could have been a hero, but he made another choice.

And I said, Thank God we're not him,

because he has to live with this guilt of inaction for the rest of his life.

So before we call for blood, let's remember: Scott Peterson

is going to live with his punishment for as long as he lives.

Or we can hate him.

Let's hate him.

It's Friday, February 23rd.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Tell me, Stu, before we get into all of this, do you trust this sheriff in Broward County?

There's something weird going on.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't, I don't,

you know, watching him at the CNN thing the other day, and the way he was making really disingenuous, pandering arguments to the crowd, I really did not like that.

And did he not know

when he went on stage that this security guard or, you know, whatever, I can't remember the type of officer he was supposed to be.

He's a deputy.

Yeah.

So he,

did he know at that time when he went on stage in front of the entire nation?

He had to have.

That there was film of, you know, video of this guy not going in there.

Did he not know that

police had been called to the house 31 times?

I mean, 39.

39 times?

He lied on national television about that.

Yeah.

And you could tell

he was just, he was squirmy and slimy.

There is something more to come out with Broward County.

I just think there is.

And it's going to revolve around this guy.

You know what it sort of feels like?

And again,

this is a very

early thought, but it feels like the Duke La Crosse prosecutor.

Yes.

That's what it feels like.

Yes.

Where you remember that?

Where, like, it just, he seemed off the whole time.

And

he seemed to be jumping to a lot of conclusions.

Like, the way he, again,

by all appearances, what we know right now, this guy, Scott Peterson, the deputy, really blew it and maybe cost a bunch of people their lives.

I mean, look, it's a difficult situation.

You outlined it well there of what that moment would be like to make those decisions, but that's your job.

He's a veteran.

He was on the police force.

Like, it's his job to go in there in that moment.

Trace.

So he's got to do that.

Do you remember?

Do you remember the movie Saving Private Ryan?

Yeah.

I have sympathy for Scott Peterson only because I'm not convinced I'm not the guy on the stairs going into war.

Yeah.

I'm not convinced I wouldn't be that guy.

I don't know.

Right.

And luckily for all of us, you're doing talk radio instead of

defending us.

Yeah.

But I mean, again, when it's your job, you've defended the nation at some level.

I don't know what his military service was exactly, but he was a veteran.

He was a deputy.

It's your job to go in there.

So if all is explained the way we know it right now,

it's impossible to excuse those actions, though they could be humanly understandable.

Hang on, let's try this.

Does it change anything if he was a veteran and he has

PTSD?

Right, maybe not.

And he was going through an episode?

It's possible.

Again, you shouldn't probably have that job.

Yes.

You know, there's a lot of, but again, all of this is what I find interesting about this is that I think everyone reacted the same way when they heard that, at least instinctively, which is like, this bastard, this guy was on campus with a firearm.

There's somebody inside shooting children and you sit outside for four minutes.

That's how I think everyone reacted.

That all comes from the evidence we got from the sheriff, who

have you ever heard a police officer instantly blame another police officer like that?

I mean, he was so instantly accusatory.

And I mean, they immediately,

and it could be completely legitimate.

It just, I don't think I've ever heard, it wasn't a balanced,

measured way of telling that story.

Listen to what he was doing the night before with Dana.

Yeah.

He was

when she, beyond that, covering.

Yeah.

She, when she said,

you know, 39 times, that's not enough for you to take the guns away.

39 times.

Well, you're not the judge you're not the judge you don't know you you've got it all the way where'd you get that through 39 times who was the victim well I heard it from Reuters Reuters wasn't the victim yeah remember he like tried to deflect CNN reported this are you saying CNN got this wrong and then and then Dana was forced to say I'm not saying CNN was the the the threat I what I'm saying is they reported it like and of course he knew that yes but he's trying to deflect he was trying to recover he was so so you couple that with immediately look at the bad guy look at the bad guy he didn't do anything.

There's this, there's something wrong with this something weird.

Something wrong with this sheriff.

I don't, I mean, I don't know.

I'd love to hear from people from Broward County that know this sheriff, but there's something wrong here.

I mean, how do you, if that inform, unless that information came up the next morning, how do you not say that at the town hall?

I mean, how, how is that not out before the town hall?

You can't hide that on stage unless he found out about it right afterwards, which I guess is possible.

but man is it suspicious well cnn can't be upset about it because i think it was a cnn story that i read this morning that said that uh wayne la pierre came onto the stage yesterday at cpac

and uh at cpac he said he he repeated his notorious phrase that he used at sandy hook his notorious phrase to oh yeah well hate him hate him hate him what's the notorious phrase though i don't know well the notorious one you know the notorious one So I would think if it's notorious, everyone would know it.

It would be a really bad phrase.

You don't because you're trying just to hide it.

His notorious phrase that a bad guy with a gun is only stopped by a good guy with a gun.

His notorious,

notorious,

I mean, villainous,

evil, also almost exclusively true.

Notorious, Stu.

Because even if.

Well, it's not universally true now, is it?

It's not.

The bad guy could have shot himself.

Well, yeah, that's the only exception.

The bad guy could have run out of bullets.

Again, no.

Again,

still, he would be stopped with a bad guy.

A good guy with a gun would show up and stop that.

No, yes.

It could have been the Hulk.

Could have been the Hulk.

Could have been the Hulk.

Never the Hulk.

It could have been.

Unless the Hulk.

What if it was?

What if it was.

But it wasn't.

What if it was?

I mean, it's because even in the cases

where the shooter shooter commits suicide, it's almost always once the cops show up on the premises and they have to.

Why don't you want the Hulk?

Why don't you want the Hulk?

I'm just trying to learn how we debate now.

You know,

you're doing a good job.

I thought so.

Why do you hate the Hulk?

Why do you refuse to say the Hulk could be used?

The only thing you're missing is why do you hate people with green skin?

Yes.

Thank you.

Now you've worked racism and we have all the elements of a good debate.

I mean,

the notorious phrase, that is universally true.

That's how it happens.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not always a regular citizen that has a gun.

Sometimes it is, by the way.

And then other times, it's more commonly, I would say, police officers come with guns, which stops these things.

Right.

So do you want the police officers not to have guns?

Do you want the police officers not to have guns?

Or are you saying that all people are bad and only police officers are good?

Is that what makes that notorious?

Is that it might be a private citizen with a gun because you can't accept that they're a good guy with a gun?

Or is it that you believe that only police officers are good and they,

well, maybe they don't stop it because they're cowering behind a concrete wall?

I mean, you know,

look at the Texas church shooting.

We just saw an example of a good guy with a gun stopping a mass shooting.

It literally is like one of the most recent things in our memory.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

No, no.

No, no.

No, no, no.

No.

Or how about the congressional?

No, no.

The same thing.

Another good guy with a gun.

No.

You know, this one,

this one, obviously, he attempted the quick change escape, which was to escape with the hostages, which Bill Murray movie reference for all of the 99.9% of people who get into the game.

This is a clown movie?

Yeah, he dressed up as a clown.

This great idea.

He dresses up as a clown.

He robs the bank.

Then he goes inside and inside the bank changes into a normal costume with a disguise and leaves as one of the hostages.

So they don't know he's gone.

This guy actually tried to do that, basically.

He put his guns down and then walked out with the students and he got away.

Oh my gosh, you've given me somebody new to hate, Bill Murray.

Hate Bill Murray.

Hate Bill Murray.

As Eric Erickson put this yesterday really well, in sum, because the FBI failed, local law enforcement failed, the resource officer failed, and the security feed was on a 20-minute delay, which we haven't even discussed yet, we must curtail the Second Amendment lest law-abiding citizens get hurt by madmen.

I don't know.

We seem to have a lot of other ways to stop this guy.

We just didn't do it.

And I hate Bill Murray.

No, no, no.

No.

Let's talk about the real issue.

Your problem with the incredible Hulk and your love for the notorious quote.

Can you imagine taking your car on a hundred-day test drive?

I could, I'd be test driving really great cars all the time.

Get a new pair of shoes.

I'd like this for my wife.

Get a new pair of shoes and.

you know, walk around in them for a hundred days.

She puts shoes on.

I swear to you, she buys these shoes, then she puts them on.

We're in the car

going to whatever it is we're going to.

And she says, I can't wait to get home and get out of these shoes.

Okay, well, anyway, this is what Casper is doing, giving you 100 nights to test drive the Casper mattress in your own home for 100 nights.

Take the 100-night sleep challenge, 100-night,

get a great sleep.

If not, on day 50, just call them up and say, take this thing back.

And they come and they pick it up and

they refund every single penny.

Okay, so you can go and test drive this for 100 nights, or you could go to

a store and lay on a mattress and lay there in your clothes with your shoes and your coat, and

then have somebody just stare at you the whole time and say, Is that one more comfortable than the last one?

I don't know.

I can't tell the difference between the two anymore.

Try 100 nights, a Casper mattress in your own home here's what i want you to do i want you to go to casper.com and use the promo code beck that's casper.com promo code beck you're going to save fifty dollars on select mattresses promo code beck at casper.com terms and conditions do apply

glenn beck mercury

gun control works in other countries 40 of all guns are sold without background checks.

More guns means more murder.

Mass shootings are becoming more common.

You've heard all these lines a thousand times.

Know the facts.

Get control, exposing the truth about guns on Amazon and wherever books are sold.

That is such a good book.

We're going to go through,

beginning next week, all of the arguments in control, and we're going to teach you the facts about gun control and

shooters and murderers and,

you know, what is it?

The gun-free zones?

I love those.

Love those.

Let me go to Eric in Florida.

Hello, Eric.

Mr.

Beck, it is an absolute honor to talk to you.

I live in Parkland.

I graduated from Stoneman Douglas in 2004.

So

I'm a little older than what's going on there now, but I know Sheriff Israel.

You said you wanted someone to call in who knows him.

I know him.

He is a politician.

He is a leftist.

He is not a law enforcement officer.

He ran for this seat and beat out a really good guy who had been in the seat for a very long time.

Sheriff Israel is best friends with Debbie Wassert and Schultz.

Oh, my God.

He's pals with Ted Deutsch, Congressman Deutsch.

He is everything that's wrong with Broward County.

I think I lived down here my whole life.

I constitute, my family and I probably constitute the entire Jewish conservative base down here, all five of us.

Good luck.

We probably constitute the entire conservative base down here, but besides the fact, he is, you said you wanted someone that knows him.

I know him.

There's nothing off as far as conspiracy goes.

It's just this is who he is.

He made Broward County

Sanctuary County.

So you're saying that he's just a politician, that he's not.

Because

I think there's something more than this because he's throwing anything

that can make him look clean.

You know, he's throwing people to the wolves, and there's these, what is it, 39 cases where he was called to this kid's house and nothing happened.

I mean, to me, he's responsible.

Yeah, and I suspect, and again, listen, I'm not in law enforcement.

I just know him and I know his politics.

I suspect as far as that goes, that's just because,

like the rest of the left, if there's anything that he can do that takes the debate away from grabbing our guns, that's what he's going to do.

So I think this is more of a cover our track so that we don't get off track as far as the narrative goes.

I don't know anything about

the investigation or any of that.

I just know that the day after the shooting, the very day after the shooting, he came up to our neck of the woods.

Broward County is physically a very large county.

He's very involved in the southern part of the county, which is where most of the liberal,

where most of the illiberal elite, including Debbie Wasterman, is.

He came up to our neck of the woods.

He stood outside of Soman Douglas High School, and the first words out of his mouth were, vote for people who don't get money from the NRA.

I mean, the investigation hadn't even started yet.

His deputies hadn't even infiltrated the school yet, and he's already talking about grabbing our guns.

Wow.

So

this is who he is.

He's a leftist,

never let a disaster go to waste, never let a crisis go to waste.

And this is his moment to shine.

And I suspect he's looking for higher office.

I've always thought that.

I will tell you, Eric, thank you very much.

I will tell you that that makes sense.

If he is just a political animal, he's not a law enforcement guy, just a political animal, this is your chance to be embraced by the left and the elites.

And this is the same thing the guy from Duke thought.

He wanted higher office.

Mike Nyphen?

Yeah, Nyfeng.

Nyfung.

And he, same exact thing.

Recall.

Big, big,

big

increase of his head, right?

He wanted a bigger office.

He made a big deal out of the Duke Lacrosse thing when it started falling apart.

He started lying about it.

And I'm not saying that this, we don't know yet.

We don't know.

But I mean, you watched him on stage with Dana.

Number one, you could tell, as the caller just said, that he was a leftist.

I mean, certainly at least a big chunk of him was leftist.

Because, you know, he was the one.

I mean, you almost waited for him to say, who's with me on the guns?

Like, it was like he was just like trying to rally people for that cause.

Yeah.

Rather than, you know,

he wasn't acting like a law enforcement official

so here's the thing.

Let's go back and play

We're gonna take a quick break then come back and play that exchange at the town hall meeting with Dana because Dana had the facts and he was doing everything he could just to get stay with the crowd stay with the crowd stay with the crowd and discredit her when we now have the facts of the 39 uh calls to police the 39 times

is that not enough?

There's something wrong with this sheriff, and we'll

go back and play in case you missed that, that exchange with the sheriff and Dana Lash in just a minute.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.

You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

If we feel the totality of the circumstances rises to the level where we're concerned this person might be mentally ill, we need the power to take every firearm they have away from them and bring them to a mental health facility.

39 visits that work did not meet that standard.

39 visits, assaulting students, assaulting parents, taking bullets and knives to school.

Did that not meet that standard?

Well,

which are you speaking about specifically?

You seem to know about all 39.

Well, I know there's one Florida statute where if he's sending messages

threatening

messages threatening to kill people, that right there, under Florida state law.

Who did he send the message to kill people to?

BuzzFeed, AP, Reuters, Yahoo News all reported that was to other students.

Who was the victim?

It was sent to other students.

Dana, Reuters can't be a victim.

The only person who could be a victim is an individual.

So if an individual was threatened and it was real, that's a crime.

But these distinct things to do.

They were threatened with death.

They were threatened that they were going to bleed.

They were threatened that they were going to be killed.

Well, what's your specific case?

And he had already taken bullets and knives to school.

He had already assaulted people.

He assaulted his parents.

He assaulted other students.

39 visits.

And this was known to the entire law enforcement community.

Now, I'm not, look, I'm not saying that you can be everywhere at once, but this is what I'm talking about.

You have to follow up on these red flags.

You're not the litmus test.

Doesn't that make the situation?

You're absolutely not the litmus test for how law enforcement should follow up.

You're wrong.

There weren't 39 visits.

Some of them, they were GOA.

Some of them called from other states.

To say there were 39 visits, I don't know where you got those facts, but you're completely wrong.

Did they report it inaccurately?

They reported inaccurately.

So the crowd is cheering when she says media because they think that it's Fox News.

It was CNN.

CNN that reported that.

And many others.

Yeah.

But I mean CNN, I believe.

Right.

So give me the 39, give me the 39 visits.

So

part of it is there were 39 visits reported by CNN.

I don't know that all of them were in Broward County.

Eventually, the sheriff gets to that as his 15th line of defense.

He says, well, I don't think all of them were here.

And

I don't think he was there for all seven years where these went on.

Here's the ones just from since 2016.

Okay.

February 5th, 2016, Broward Sheriff's Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that this killer, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns.

The information was forwarded to

BSO deputy Scott Peterson.

Oh, boy.

A school resource officer at the high school.

Okay, so this is Scott Peterson, the guy who was cowering behind

the concrete wall.

At least that's how it's, you know,

that's what we know right now.

Okay.

September 23rd, 2016, 2016, a peer counselor reports to Peterson that this shooter had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt.

Man, I wish this went differently.

Was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun.

A mental health counselor advises against involuntary committing of this student.

The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment.

Five days later, an investigator.

Look at how many warning signs he makes.

They take our children with a class two look-alike firearm, otherwise known as a finger gun.

They take our children and they scare the hell out of them.

But here's a kid that goes on Facebook, says, I'm going to kill people in school.

Then I'm going to kill myself.

He has guns.

They know about it.

We'll investigate.

Are you kidding me?

I mean, that's.

That's incredible.

Five days later, investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules

the killer is stable despite fresh cuts on his arms.

His mother

says in the past he wrote a racial slur against African Americans on his book bag and then recently talked about buying firearms.

A year later, a YouTube user, as we know, with the exact name of this killer, posts a comment stating he wants to become a professional school shooter.

The comment is reported to the FBI, which fails to make the connection to South Florida.

In fact, doesn't even go through the process to send it to South Florida.

November 1st, 2017, Catherine Blaine, the cousin of this killer, calls to report that

he had weapons and asks that police recover them.

A close family friend agrees to take the firearms.

November 29th, Palm Beach County family that took in this killer after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22 years old.

A member of the family says the killer had threatened to get his gun and come back and that he has put guns to others' heads in the past.

End quote.

The family does not want him arrested once he calms down.

November 30th, 2017, a caller from Massachusetts calls again

to report that the killer is collecting guns and knives and could be a school shooter in the making.

End quote.

A deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff.

Caller to the this is now January 5th of this year.

A caller to the FBI tip line reports that Cruz

sorry that this is trying really hard to use the not to use the killer's name that this murderer had a desire to kill people and could potentially conduct a school shooting.

The information never passed on to the FBI's office in Miami.

On and on and on.

39 total.

These are the last, this is the last batch of them with all the detail that directly

relates to

and that the within hours of this shooting, the name is brought to the attention of the sheriff, and the sheriff has a file on this kid.

Right, because they've now released 911 tapes about him, not from the shooting, but from previous incidents where the police were activated.

Let me go to Mike, also in Florida.

He is a police officer in West Palm Beach.

Hello, Mike.

How are you doing, Glenn?

I'm good.

How are you?

I'm doing well.

Longtime listener, man.

I've been following you for many years.

Thank you.

And thank you.

A few points I'd like to make.

Part of the problem is the state attorneys, the sheriff's office, the police departments, they handcuff us so much when we're trying to do our job that nothing gets done.

They put these restrictions on cops.

They say one thing, we're going to have felonies.

We're going to do great things.

We're going to look into these things.

We do, and then nothing happens.

And therein lies the problem.

So

tell me, because there is

speculation that

there were restrictions put on the cops and self-imposed on the sheriffs

for a myriad of reasons that actually

kind of helped grow this situation.

Have you heard anything?

I don't want to get more specific than that because we're still verifying, but have you heard anything like that?

No,

it's even on a broader scale than what we're talking about now.

It's from your basic burglaries to your gun calls to your guns in schools.

We sweep these problems under the rug because they don't want the attention brought to the schools.

It's a negative reflection on the school to have these problems.

Look at the community Parkland is.

It's affluent kids.

It's a nice area.

I used to live about 15 minutes and work about 15 minutes away from there.

I mean, it's a nice area.

Yeah.

There's

a lot of people speculating about

some of the reporting standards that went along with this, and we're looking into some of that to see how much there is to it.

There's a lot going on around the internet on maybe the motivations of these officers or of this program

leads to bad incentives, I would say.

So we are looking into that stuff as we go on here.

But it's important to confirm before we go into it.

Mike, do you know anything about Scott Peterson?

No,

you know, just from what you hear, I mean, don't know him personally.

I mean, was he a,

is local news doing anything on him?

Was he a, is it possible that this was a vet that had PTSD?

No,

what I hear from the guys

is, you know,

it's hard to judge an officer what they do, how they do, how they respond, what's going through their head, where they're located.

And as soon as they get a scapegoat, one of these political guys, even our sheriff, where does the blame go?

It goes immediately to the guy on the street.

It doesn't go to the underlying problem that maybe the school should have two cops.

Maybe we should have a quicker response times.

Maybe we shouldn't have deputies lining up having to get clearances before we go into an active shooter situation.

Thanks, Mike.

These are the problems.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Let me go to Steve in South Carolina.

Hello, Steve.

Hello.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

How are you, sir?

Great.

I really appreciate all that you've done, and I've been listening to your program for a very, very, very long time.

Thank you.

Yes.

Down here in South Carolina, we had a police officer that shot an unarmed black man, I think it was roughly two years ago.

Yeah.

And I would get in debates with my friends

about anything that really needs to happen.

I'm

100% disabled vet, retired military.

I've been over seven times for combat, all special forces.

Wow, thank you.

And

I appreciate that.

And it's all training.

It's all training.

And if someone, if that would have happened

in the military,

not only would that person who shot the undermin guy gotten fired and disciplined, but everybody above him would have been disciplined.

So if wait, wait, wait.

So the sheriff that froze,

everyone above him would have been disciplined?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the main reason for that is then someone will come in, someone else, and they'll emphasize training.

And after years of basically every leadership getting in trouble, leadership will start understanding that they're responsible for all their deputies.

And then they'll start training them harder.

They'll start making sure they go to the right classes.

They'll make sure they're ready instead of just throwing them out there and saying, well, if he gets in trouble, that's it.

Steve,

would you understand if he was a vet and this was PTSD?

Not understanding the sheriff for putting him in that situation and not seeing that that could be a possibility, but could you see that that is a possibility of something that happened?

I hate to

say yes or no to that question just because I obviously I have severe PTSD and I've run into situations afterwards since I've been out where I run right towards the problem still.

But I have no idea what he's been through.

I don't know what I just don't understand how you didn't run into that school with kids, how you didn't bust through all the kids who are obviously running out.

You didn't go through a window.

You didn't do whatever it took.

to get in there is beyond me.

And again, you do have a point.

However, if if he was going through the right training,

the sheriff should have seen that.

We need to pull you off of this,

give you another job, or we need to have you out of here.

Steve, thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

And

I'm sorry for your loss of

the use of your body,

but my children.

have a chance to be free and make the case for freedom because of your sacrifice.

And I appreciate it, Steve.

Thank you very much.

So, I want to talk to you a little bit about your car or your truck.

If you're like me, I like to drive my trucks until the doors fall off.

I buy one, and then it just drives and drives and drives and drives.

And when it stops working and literally I can't repair it anymore, then we'll take it to the scrap heap.

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Glenn back

Mercury.

Glenn back.

Very excited to have Jordan Peterson on with us.

He's coming up in just about 10 minutes from now.

Jordan Peterson is

on fire

and probably one of the biggest internet sensations that is around today.

And he's just talking common sense.

I mean, it's coming from a professor, a Canadian professor, talking common sense.

We're going to talk to him a little bit about toxic masculinity.

That's the new catchphrase.

And, you know, that was, you know, that that's one of the problems, right, that happened in Florida was toxic masculinity.

This gun culture is just nothing but toxic masculinity.

Also, love to get his thoughts on

from a guy who is not involved in American politics and is in Canada watching, looking in,

how he views our discourse and the discourse that we've had here in the last week about this, in particular, the CNN

town hall meeting.

We'll talk to him coming up in just a few minutes.

You don't want to miss it.

Let me go to Joe in Tennessee.

Hello, Joe.

Welcome to the Glen Bay program.

Hey, Glenn, how are you?

Very good.

Hey, I was just calling in.

You know, right after this shooting happened, our local county here in Nashville school district shut all the schools down, and they had all of the teachers go up to a meeting where the superintendent and the sheriffs were there.

And the whole talk was about what we're going to do in the school and all that.

And one of the things that the superintendent comes right out and says was, you know, we're not going to make our schools prisons and we're not going to do such and such.

And I'm like, you know, with everything that's going on, it's like you're just throwing out

one of the solutions to this problem of the things that the secure, the security measures we need to take in the schools.

Yeah, I mean,

our airports are like prisons.

Our banks are like prisons.

Anything that we're trying to protect, museums are like prisons.

The Capitol is like a prison.

The White House is like a prison.

Our Air Force bases are like a prison.

Our Navy bases are like prisons.

If you're wanting to protect something, you have to have the right measures in place.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.

Love.

Courage.

Truth.

Glenn back.

France is no longer free.

Marion Le Pen took the stage at CPAC yesterday, spent the first several minutes of her speech destroying the EU.

She lamented about lost sovereignty at the hands of Brussels and advocated a new global slogan, America first, Britain first, first, and France first.

I searched around yesterday after she left the stage to see what people were saying, and by and large, nobody was saying anything.

The conservative media and voices were all but silent.

That's probably because everything she said sounded a little like the Republicans today.

Anti-EU and large trade organizations, yep.

Anti-immigrant, yep.

Skeptical of Muslim immigrants, yep.

For big government?

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Now here's why this is scary.

All of these issues I just said, mega trade alliances, immigration, and Muslim migrants are actual legitimate issues.

Sovereignty is a legitimate issue.

In fact, it's a big reason why Trump won, because he gave voice to those concerns that I hold and many in this audience hold.

By and large, they have been ignored and belittled for decades.

And so you look for somebody strong enough to battle that monster.

And the longer we're belittled and the longer we're ignored, the bigger our monster needs to be.

If you watched Marion Le Pen yesterday, you saw something the new American right

hasn't had in

well, maybe ever.

A young female photogenic firebrand.

There she was at CPAC, flashing that million-dollar smile and giving the crowd absolutely everything they wanted to hear.

At one point, they started chanting, Viva la France, viva la France.

Let's get one thing straight right now.

The far right in Europe has nothing in common with American conservatism.

These people and groups are ethno-nationalist populists.

That is not a good thing.

We've seen this in the 1930s.

The only thing they're concerned

is using real issues like trade, the economy, immigration, the loss of sovereignty, and focusing people's rage.

That's how monsters are born.

That's how it happened in the 1930s.

That's how you gain power.

And when they get that power, they're not really interested in reducing the size and scope of government.

They expand it through control.

The massive welfare state and aggression.

That is national socialism.

There is a global effort right now among the far uber ultra far right all over the world to link themselves to the success of Donald Trump.

Now, I get that they would want to try to emulate the success and ride on coattails, but we should not be helping them do it.

The European far right, which has more in common with the neo-Nazi and alt-right than anything else, was actually giving a speech to American conservatives yesterday.

They're being legitimized and co-opted into the American right.

Let me make this really clear.

This is dangerous and not the American conservative movement.

The Americans conservative movement does not hate immigrants.

It welcomes those who want to come to America because they see that what we have and what we have is freedom and the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and law and order.

They want to come here because they know they can make themselves and us into something bigger and better.

We want those people.

We believe in free trade and economic freedom.

We believe in our country.

We believe in the Irish being Irish and the French being French and the British and Americans being Americans.

We believe that.

But not if it's built on rage and hatred.

It's why we don't really necessarily believe right now

that Iran should be Iran.

We believe in personal salvation, not collective.

We believe in personal responsibility, not collective.

That is the center of the American conservative movement.

If the American right

marches behind a flag instead of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, it is over.

This

co-opting

of the European right

and the alt-right must end now.

It's Friday, February 23rd.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Dr.

Jordan Peterson, who would have thought that

common sense would come from a university professor from Canada, but he is probably the biggest sensation out there now,

especially with the youth and young males, because he is speaking common sense and he's speaking it peacefully and he's talking about God.

And he's got a best-selling book out, number one bestseller, 12 Rules for Life, an Antidote to Chaos.

Welcome to the program, Dr.

Jordan Peterson.

How are you?

I'm good.

Yeah, I know.

A university press

probably.

You're breaking up.

We had this problem last time.

I don't know where you were standing last time, but can you stand there?

Because you're breaking up and we can't understand you.

Can you hear me?

I can hear you now.

Yes.

Okay, good.

Oh, yes.

I said, well, Canadian and a university professor, the end times must be near.

Yes, it is the clippity clop of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

I want to talk to you about a few things.

We hear, and I know, I don't want to get you into politics, just common sense.

I don't know if you've been following, for instance, the CNN town hall this week and this debate that we're having, but we have 16-year-olds that

are demanding that America pretty much disregards the Second Amendment.

And

we're not having sensible arguments at all.

There's no reason

in the debates that we're having.

We're not listening to each other.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Well, I think that that can be

true on a much wider scale than than merely the debate that's going on about what happened after Parkland.

We're not listening to each other at all.

We're polarized in to a great degree.

So how do we solve this?

Well, you know, I've been recommending first of all, I would say that in my book, in Twelve Rules for Life, in Rule six, I outlined why such things as the Parkland school shooting occur.

And it has very little to do

specifically with guns.

There there's something much deeper and more horrible going on that that that that that is rather dreadful to look at.

I mean, people who are motivated to do the sorts of things that happen at Parkland

are possessed by a kind of ill will, an evil ill will whose magnitude is difficult to describe.

And it's a problem of disorientation and meaninglessness, and it's expressing itself in gun violence, but it can express itself in all sorts of ways.

And

the deeper problem has to be solved as far as I'm concerned, and that's the problem of nihilism nihilism in the face of the tragedy of life.

And it's that kind of destructive nihilism that drives the actions of people like the school school shooters.

So it's very difficult for us to have an intelligent conversation about that because nobody wants to look at the darkness enough to

actually understand what motivates people like the shooters.

And it's not surprising, you know.

And what happens then, of course, is that the discussion gets politicized and it it goes down the same rails that it's always gone down.

The Democrats say their thing

and the Republicans say their thing, and it never really ends up, the discussion never really ends up being about the school shootings, for example.

Well,

I've been saying all week, you know, I started

the week with a monologue on, you know, nobody even wants to talk about

seven out of the nine shooters that were under 30 came from fatherless homes.

I mean, we have a breakdown.

Well, there's definitely something there, I would say, because

these men, these young men,

they lack purpose and direction.

And that's really not a good thing because life is very difficult.

As the religious sages have always had it, life is suffering.

And you need to set something positive against that suffering or it corrupts you.

And when it corrupts you, you become vengeful and vindictive and murderous and genocidal.

Like that, those are the stages.

And the school shooters are two-thirds of the way to genocidal by the time they perform their actions.

It's because they turn against life because life is so difficult, and they have nothing to set, nothing positive to set against it.

It's a real catastrophe.

And the fact that

we're transforming ourselves into ideologues, both on the right and the left, is a reflection of the same problem, is that because people lack genuine, engaged meaning in their own personal lives, in large part because they don't understand how necessary it is to take responsibility, they turn to pseudo-solutions.

And

an

ideology, right or left, is a pseudo-solution to the problem of meaning in life.

And it's very dangerous.

We saw that in the 20th century, as you pointed out just before our talk.

How do we find meaning

as a group when, I mean,

especially with young men, there is a concerted effort, at least it seems, to eviscerate men?

The new catchphrase is toxic masculinity.

Yeah.

Oh, I know.

12 Rules for Life, which is Rule 11, Other Children Wouldn't Street Born.

You know, it's kind of a tongue-in-cheek title, but it's a very, very serious chapter.

And it's about the

confusion between masculine confidence and masculine currency.

You know, the problem is.

You know what?

We're going to have to take a break and see if we can get you to a better space so we can hear you.

You're breaking up again.

So we're going to send you a hardwired phone.

That's what we have to do.

We'll come back in just a second.

More with Jordan Peterson.

it's so frustrating when he's when he's on with us because there's nobody I want to hear every single word of more than Jordan Peterson one of the chapters is speak precisely and yet we can never hear what he's saying it's like yeah and what

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glenn beck mercury

glenn back

jordan peterson joining us now on a landline thank you jordan i'm sorry for the uh hassle on that um

no problem uh so so uh let's pick the conversation up um

uh where we were, where we left it off.

And that's toxic masculinity and

how do we find meaning?

How do young men find meaning in their life when society is tearing them down and saying, you know,

you're bad, you're worthless, you're not needed?

Yeah, well, it's part of an all-out assault, as far as I can tell, in some sense, mostly from the radical left on the idea of competence itself.

And there's a confusion between tyranny and power and competence.

You know, in our society, which is a pretty free society, so let's say Western societies, most of our hierarchies are mostly predicated on competence, which means that if you can do the job, you tend to rise in the organization.

Now that's contaminated a little bit with tyranny and power, of course, because no organization is perfect.

And what we have is a claim, essentially, from the radical left that male competence is indistinguishable from male tyranny and power, and so that it should be all torn down, Not only the hierarchies,

but the spirit that generated the hierarchies.

And that's fundamentally the masculine spirit, even symbolically and psychologically speaking.

So what we see is an all-out assault on the masculine spirit.

And

that was actually formalized by Jacques Derrida.

He called Western culture phallogocentric, fellow from fellas.

and logo from logos.

So it was male-dominated and driven by logos.

And of course, that's the Christian word and also the root idea

behind the word logic.

And so it is part of an all-out intellectual

and an all-out war of ideas.

And the people who are bearing the brunt of that at the moment are, I would say, young men.

Yeah, it's really not good.

So what is the

end goal?

Is it as clear as it seems to be that it is the end goal and the

the motivation is just to destroy the the West can you can you find any logic in there that is that is well if you buy the idea look if you buy the idea that the West is a corrupt patriarchy

and then that's the logical that's the logical end goal I mean the the more radical disciplines at the universities as women's studies and and and those sorts of disciplines have said for decades that their goal was the destruction of the patriarchy it's like it's very often you know, that people tell you what they're doing.

You just have to listen to them.

I mean, if you read the school shooters' documents, like the kids from Columbine High School, they told you exactly why they did what they what they did.

If you go on to the websites and read um the curricula and the dictates of women's studies uh uh disciplines at universities, they tell you exactly what they're doing.

If the West is a corrupt patriarchy, then the right thing to do is to tear it down.

So it's not it's not a surprise, and it's not a conspiracy theory.

It's just precisely

that's the doctrine.

That's the dogma.

And the university, especially the humanities departments, are overwhelmingly

left and radical left.

That's being well documented by people like Jonathan Haidt with his heterodox academy.

And Jonathan is an extraordinarily reasonable person.

He's no one's idea of a radical.

I greatly respect him.

Who is,

Jordan, who are the people that we should be reading, besides you and your book, who are the people that inspire you or can inspire men

to be men?

I think that Steven Pinker is doing a fine job.

He has a new book out now.

It's in the top ten.

So Pinker's a good person to read because Pinker's making a very powerful pro-enlightenment, pro-reason, pro-science, pro-progress pro-progress case, well documented empirically.

I mean, the empirical evidence is pretty clear, although there is some evidence that inequality is increasing.

First of all, no one knows what to do about that, right or left.

There's a new book by Walter Scheidel called The Great Leveling, which I would also much recommend it because much because he analyzes the problem of inequality with dead seriousness and traces it back thousands of years and points out quite clearly that it's a problem, but that it can't be laid laid at the feet of capitalism.

That's just foolish.

It's a way deeper problem than that.

But despite the fact that there's increasing inequality to some degree in the West, overall the entire world is getting richer and there are fewer poor people.

There are way fewer people in absolute poverty than there were 15 years ago.

Far fewer.

And so what's happening is our economic system is generating

a lot of surplus and it's being quite effectively distributed even to the lowest end of the socioeconomic spectrum, but inequality still remains a problem.

And that drives a fair bit of theorizing on the left.

But I would very much recommend Scheidel's book, The Great Leveling.

It's very bright, and then there's Pinker.

And then I'm very much a fan of

great classic literature.

I'm a great admirer of Dostoevsky.

Dostoevsky's novels in particular are unbelievably profound explorations of the role of human responsibility in the face of the tragedy and malevolence of existence.

So, and I have a reading list at jordanbpeterson.com that has about 40 books on it that I've recommended.

That some of them are psychological in nature and others are literary, some are philosophical.

So,

let me take a quick break, and then I want to come back.

And would you define

what a good man is?

What is the goal to be a man, and what does a good man look like when we come back with Jordan Peterson?

Glenn Beck,

Mercury.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Jordan Peterson is with us.

He is the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, 12 Rules for Life, an Antidote to Chaos.

I can't recommend that you read this highly enough.

Welcome,

Jordan Peterson.

Can you describe

what we all should be shooting for as a man?

Yes, yes.

I was thinking about an image related to that.

So there's a cathedral in Montreal called St.

Joseph's Oratorio, and it's built on a hill.

It's a very large cathedral, so it overlooks the hill.

It's a beautiful building, and then there are many, many steps leading up to it, hundreds of steps, and pilgrims come there to to trudge up the steps one at a time towards the cathedral.

And there's something deeply symbolic about that.

Yeah, the idea that's being expressed is is is profound and and necessary, and that is that

we all need a vision of the way that that life and the world could be.

We want to have a vision that that could be as good as it could be.

The least amount of suffering and the most for everyone and the most freedom for everyone and the best for everyone.

And the question is, how do you approach an ideal like that?

And the answer to that is by carrying your burden one step at a time up the hill.

And that's what you do in life.

You're not a victim.

Or if you are, you carry it, you know, and you take responsibility for it.

And you're someone other people can rely on.

And you tell the truth.

And that way you make the world a little better instead of worse.

And that's the alternative to ideological possession and collective action and

group hatred and tribalism and all those things that tear us apart, is to accept that your life is tragic and that you'll suffer and that there's evil in the world and that it's your it's your responsibility to take that onto yourself and to carry it forward towards the good.

That's meaning in life.

And that's the antidote to chaos and to catastrophe.

And the West knows this.

This is why we're an individualist culture.

Because we know that the individual has to be set above the group.

But it's not the individual in all his rights.

It's the individual in all his responsibilities.

And that's the part of the dialogue that's missing from our culture currently.

And I believe that's why my book has become so popular and the lectures as well,

because I'm telling people, suggesting to people,

particularly but not only to young men, that they need to accept as much responsibility as they can tolerate and then build themselves into people who can tolerate even more responsibility.

And to accept that that gratefully, because that's where the purpose and meaning in life is.

Jordan,

I've gone from a man, you know, for a while I rejected that I had changed a great deal in the last couple of years, but I have.

And I've gone from a guy

that was very popular because I was certain of things

to a guy who now really appreciates doubt

and is and I kind of view certitude as a

as a as a dangerous thing because if I'm certain of what I believe then I don't necessarily believe you know anybody else has me has anything to teach me or

and and yet I find I think this is the message of Christ is

humility

and and yet

humility is that if things aren't everything they should be for you and around you, then clearly you don't know enough.

Correct.

So then you better be looking for what you don't know, and that's the opposite of certainty.

We are in a situation now that

it almost feels like we don't trust that the truth will eventually win, that God is on the side of truth.

And so we have to engage in this warfare.

and we're engaging online, we're engaging in tribalism,

and

the answer seems to be in the opposite direction of...

Yeah, well we're trying to transform the political system into a tribal battlefield.

That's what identity politics is.

And that can be accepted on the right as well.

The identitarians accept identity politics.

They just want to play it differently.

It's division into tribes.

And it's a catastrophe.

Division into tribes tribes means that we'll fight.

It's always been that way.

Human tribes have always fought, and terribly.

You know, there's an old idea that the hunter-gatherer types,

the pre-materialist, pre-capitalist hunter-gatherer types were peaceful.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

They have incredibly high male-on-male homicide rates.

Tribal people are unbelievably murderous, and we're all tribal, except when we decide not to be.

and to decide not to be tribal is to decide to be an individual but that means to take all the weight of things onto your own shoulders and who wants that right so it's a terrible responsibility but the the the paradoxical truth of the matter is is that the more you take on that terrible responsibility the deeper your life becomes but that justifies the suffering but the more you take on the bigger target i want to read i want to read this to you this is a um uh an article out of the mercury news in California.

These men, particularly Elon Musk, are not only heavily invested in who can get their rocket into space first, but into colonizing Mars.

The desire to colonize, to have unquestioned, unchallenged, and automatic access to something, to any type of body, and use it as will is a patriarchal one.

It is the same instinctual and cultural force that teaches men that everything and everyone in their line of vision is theirs for the taking.

They're destroying a guy like Elon Musk who's like, look, I believe these things, and I think we can be better than this, and this gives me hope.

Let's go here.

Right, absolutely.

And see, that's a great,

your reference hits the nail on the head.

You see there that confusion between male confidence and desire to

move forward in the world and tyranny.

Those aren't the same thing.

They're not the same thing at all.

And Musk is no tyrant.

If you can't see that he's a hero, then there's something wrong with your vision.

And, you know, symbolically, the author of that article is equating Mars with the unspoiled virgin, you know, and Musk with the rapist.

It's an appalling vision of masculinity.

There's no excuse for it.

There's no excuse for it.

There's nothing in that except destruction.

Good men do things for themselves and for everyone else at the same time.

That's the right balance.

You want to do something that's good for you and good for your family and good for the community and good for the surrounding world all at the same time.

And you can do that, and that takes competence and clear vision and truth.

And those aren't, that's not tyranny.

And those people, the people who wrote the article that you described, they're the people who think that emasculated weak men will be good because they're harmless.

And emasculated weak men will be the Parkland shooters.

That's the truth of the matter.

When do we begin to

see this for what it is?

Let me ask you this question.

Are we closer to the

end of this kind of thinking and movement, or are we closer to the end of the beginning of it?

I don't know.

There's been this funny idea that's been circulating on the Internet about

the kingdom of Kekistan where everything's in chaos.

And we're in chaos at the moment.

Things could go very well, but they could go very badly.

And I think we're in a situation now where the decisions that each person makes at each moment are of

crucial import in a way that's not always true.

We're going to decide which way we're going to go in the next three or four years.

And there's lots of positive signs.

All the economic growth, for example, that I referred to, the fact that poverty is being pushed back and there's about 300,000 people a day now being hooked to the power grid.

And there are a lot of really good things happening, but there is this terrible polarization and this demand to return to a destructive tribalism and this ideological attempt led mostly by the universities, to my utter shame, to demolish the patriarchy.

It's very, very dangerous.

And corporations are playing that game, too.

They're letting the fifth column diversity, equity, and inclusivity types in through the HR back door, failing to see that generating an anti-capitalist fifth column within the confines of your own organization is self-destructive in the extreme.

How do you

I've watched interviews with you in mainstream media, and they always come with

an intent, with an agenda, it seems.

You approach these interviews without an agenda, and you're just trying to explain what you believe based on their questions,

and you always seem to win because you don't seem to have an agenda.

Truth doesn't have an agenda.

Would you say

to not say something stupid?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Do you believe the mainstream media has crossed the line from bias to activism?

And if so, what does that mean to you?

Well, I think one of the things that might be happening is that we're in a transition period from the mainstream media, print and television, let's say most particularly, to online forms of discussion.

And that's happening very rapidly.

And so it's killing the mainstream media.

And as they spiral towards their death, they become more polarized to draw attention to their remaining resources.

And so they're driving polarization in the broader society in an attempt to stave off their extinction rather than adapting to the new media.

I'm not sure that's true, but that's what it looks like.

It looks like it might be happening to me because we are in the midst of a technological revolution in communication.

I mean YouTube alone now has something in the neighborhood of 2 billion people using it.

And YouTube allows the possibility of the spoken word to have the same distribution as the written word, which is something unparalleled in human history.

So I think that part of what's happening is a secondary consequence of a technological revolution.

I don't think that the mainstream media's desperate attempts to use clickbait, let's say, to attract additional viewership, to exaggerate, for example, the danger of violent crime and to pit the right against the left in a manner that's more combative than the reality would would indicate.

I don't think that that will stave off their demise.

I think it will accelerate it.

But there could be a lot of collateral damage while that's occurring.

Jordan Peterson from JordanPeterson.com, also the book 12 Rules for Life, an Antidote to Chaos.

Did you ever you have you have like you're approaching a million YouTube subscribers, a number one New York Times bestseller.

Did you ever see this?

I don't think I'm on the New York Times.

They didn't list me.

Shut up.

It's Amazon.

Well, you're number one.

Yes, I'm number one everywhere, but on the New York Times bestseller.

Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

It is rather remarkable.

Yeah.

Jordan,

did you ever see anything like this coming your way?

Well, I knew when I wrote my first book, this book maps a meaning, I was discussing archetypal ideas and their relationship to ideological dispute.

And I knew that was important.

And I knew that my students in the course I taught on that book were very, very receptive to the course.

I mean, most of the student comments I got, both at Harvard and at the University of Toronto, was that that was one of the few courses that completely changed students' lives.

And it's not surprising to me to some degree because of the ideas themselves,

ancient archetypal religious ideas are of absolute necessity.

People can't live without them.

And so I knew that I was talking about things that have always been of crucial importance to people, but there was no way of foreseeing the magnitude of the effect of that.

I mean,

I'm still in complete shock about it on a moment-to-moment basis.

It seems to be getting larger rather than smaller.

Oh, yeah.

You have a lot of runway yet ahead of you.

I pray for you, and

I know what it's like to have great success come quickly.

And

if there was anyone who could navigate those waters, I believe it is you.

And we wish you all the best.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, like I said, I hope I can manage this without making any catastrophic mistakes.

And so, so far, so good.

Knock on wood and all that.

Thank you so much.

Jordan Peterson.

You can get Jordan on Twitter at JordanB.Peterson.

JordanB.Peterson.com is where, by the way, that reading list he mentioned earlier in the interview, you can find that there.

And I would say probably at the top of that reading list would be 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Jordan Peterson.

You know, it's amazing.

I don't think I've ever interviewed a more careful man.

Yeah, one of his rules is speak with preciseness.

Yeah.

And

you can hear it.

He speaks slowly

to not make any errors.

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Glenn Beck Mercury.

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So I brought Jordan Peterson to the table today.

Who'd you bring Stu?

Charlie Warzell.

He's coming up next hour.

He's

a political science guy.

Yeah, wrote an amazing article about

something you've been talking about for a while on AI and how it's going to change the way we get information that you're not going to believe.

The information apocalypse?

Yes, that's

great.

It's a late birthday present.

Thank you.

Coming up next.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.

Love, courage,

truth,

Glenn, back.

Every once in a while, we need to take a step back.

Everybody right now is screaming, fake news, fake news.

Both sides are doing it.

And in some ways, both sides are right.

We're getting to a place that soon you're not going to be able to believe your eyes and ears.

And people don't really realize this.

There's a guy who, his name is Aviv Ovadaya.

He predicted the fake news explosion.

And now he's saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's just the beginning.

That's nothing compared to what's on the recent or a near horizon.

Yeah,

Info-Apocalypse, potentially.

And there's a great story about this in BuzzFeed from Charlie Warzell.

It's a story about what's coming next.

Charlie Warzell is a reporter for BuzzFeed, also writes something, one of my favorite things to read, which because it's about InfoWars and sort of that conspiracy media, and

his last name is Warzell.

It's called InfoWarzelle, which is the greatest name of all time.

It's a newsletter, and it's really worth your attention as well.

He joins us now from Montana.

Charlie, is that where you are?

That's right, Missoula, Montana.

Thanks for having me.

You bet.

So, Charlie,

I can't seem to get people to really get their arms around

the idea that soon we're not going to even know what reality is and we don't we won't care.

Well, it's it's complicated to some extent, but the the best way that that I can describe it is that the sort of hall of mirrors that we are experiencing online right now with the

as you guys were saying earlier, everyone sort of calling fake news with

sort of bad actors acting in bad faith, putting out

propaganda and content that's designed to manipulate that isn't true.

All those things that we see in our Facebook feeds, in Twitter right now,

it's all going to potentially get far worse because the technology is going to allow it to come from people that perhaps we know.

So the

the fake news that that you're seeing, the misinformation, the propaganda,

it it could start coming from

a loved one.

You could start getting emails from them telling you things that didn't happen, that were generated algorithmically.

So it's not really that

something new is going to happen.

It's that everything that's happening now, all this unrest, discord, confusion,

and difficulty sort of parsing reality is going to become so much more sophisticated because of technology that hasn't even been invented yet.

What do you mean that you're going to get you'll get something from your loved ones?

Sure.

So Aviv, the researcher who I spoke with, alongside many others who are doing really great work sort of understanding how these platforms work and the technology that's on the horizon,

Aviv has

this term, and it's called laser phishing.

So regular phishing or spear phishing is when you maybe get a link from something that, that you know, an email address that's a couple characters off from somebody you know, and it's saying, hey, click this link, and it and then that link asks you for, you know, your password information.

It's sort of a classic hacker trick.

It's pretty low tech.

This would sort of be something that would happen

laser phishing is using

AI and sort of this artificial intelligence and machine learning to understand things about you, understand the people that you talk to, the conversations you've had across social media with other people.

Mine all that information and then use it to manipulate you.

So instead of getting an email from someone who uh who

sounds like it they could be someone you know, the email's gonna come from ostensibly someone you know and it's going to have information that's pertinent to you, information you were perhaps expecting to hear from.

So you're going to be so much more likely to believe this information um and then offer things things up.

There's a lot of people,

Nigerian princes on the internet who are asking for money.

But what if that person is your brother and your brother says he had a car accident and he's stuck and needs to repair his car because you are having a conversation about cars and

money or something like that along the lines?

So this is being able to manipulate people

at the click of

a mouse or a button

in this

artificial intelligence way.

And

I think that

we're falling for the low-tech, lo-fi stuff right now.

So it's going to be hard to imagine how we can get up to speed on the other stuff.

And the feature of this, Charlie, goes even further than just, say, an email.

It could be audio or video coming from the people that you know convincing you to do something that winds up completely burning you.

Absolutely.

And I think you can see this

not just in people asking for money or asking you for information, but

this can be used to manipulate government and diplomacy.

It's not hard to envision, and many people have sort of already been talking about this, but it's not hard to envision

any lawmaker has hundreds of hours of footage of themselves, either audio or video, on the Internet.

Machine learning programs can take that, can absorb it, and then

what they can do with that is

produce very

hard to verify and real-looking video of people saying anything.

So you could have a video of Donald Trump potentially down the line

really antagonizing in an aggressive way, say

North Korea.

And the stakes of that get higher and higher as the reaction times

are shorter and people have to respond.

So you could really escalate political and

diplomatic tensions using this kind of technology.

So

I was talking about this at the beginning of the year and I laid out just some crazy predictions.

And one of them was, if not this election of 2018, by 2020, this will be used in an effective way.

And we may not know about it until after the election, but we are that close to this kind of stuff being used.

Would you agree with that?

Well, I think

with the artificial intelligence stuff, with the

video and audio manipulation, we may be a little further down the line from that because the real worry is not just that

some incredibly sophisticated programmer or one-off type person is going to be able to use this who has access to proprietary technology.

The real thing is when it becomes democratized, when

you can manipulate, when anyone with two or three hours of

research on the Internet can do this.

And that, I think we're a little bit further off, but not too far.

There are

some forums.

There's a forum on the site, Reddit, which is called Deep Fakes.

And it is where people are manipulating video right now.

Some of it is awful.

Some of it is pornographic and very disturbing.

But others are just, you can go and look for yourself, are funny.

You know, people

putting Nicholas Cage's face on Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I don't know why Nicholas Cage

is this guy, but

his face is almost on everybody.

He's an internet sensation.

Yeah, he is.

But, you know, it speaks to when people are kind of playing around with this, having fun with it, doing it in their spare time because it's entertaining, that is sort of a harbinger of something that's very scary, which is that, you know, you could,

in two or three hours, figure out how to do this yourself.

I think we're a little bit further than

I think 2020, who knows, but it's definitely coming.

I hope you're right.

Tell me a little bit about what Aviv talks about and describes as reality apathy.

Sure.

It's basically the combination of all of this

that we're talking about, which is

these sophisticated technological tools to sort of distort what's real and what's not to the point where you become overwhelmed by the idea of,

say you're being laser fished by 20 people, and when you go online and try to click a news link, you're not sure where the source is coming from,

whether it's something you can trust, whether it's something you're not.

you're just besieged by what you believe is misinformation, but you can't even tell.

So you start to disengage.

You know, if your inbox is something where

you don't know what you're getting, what's real or what's not, you're going to maybe give up.

And that is sort of the ⁇

that works also with

diplomacy.

If people start

spoofing

calls to Congress to lobby their lawmakers about some political issue, if that happens

in a spoofing way so much that people can't

get through on the lines, they're going to stop participating

in democracy in that particular way.

They might stop going online and sharing their own opinions or feel unsafe.

They might just say, you know what, the news, it's not worth it for me.

That is scary.

But going the other way as well,

if you see a bunch of stuff that is fake and you don't know what to believe, somebody in power could actually be doing some really bad stuff, and nobody would know.

Nobody would pay attention.

They'd say, well, that's just fake, because that's what the politician would say.

Yeah, I mean, an informed citizenry is a cornerstone of

democracy.

So, how do we inform ourselves going forward?

Who is standing against this?

How do we protect?

I mean, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

What do we do?

Well, I think, you know, this is why I wanted to highlight Aviv's work.

And

he's becoming labeled as sort of the person who called the

misinformation fake news crisis

before it became a thing.

He's one of many.

There are

dozens of researchers like this who are lobbying tech companies, thinking about this on sort of the vanguard of this movement.

And I think

journalists, news organizations, highlighting these people's work, giving them a platform to talk about this is the first step.

The second step is

really

putting pressure on these technology companies, and not just Facebook or Google or Twitter, but the hardware makers, people like Adobe,

people like potentially Apple, companies

that are going to be making this audio-visual technology.

and making them sort of understand that innovation is okay, but we have to learn our lessons from

this whole fake news situation that we're dealing with right now and build this technology responsibly with all of these sort of externalities baked in and understand what we can

that these things can be abused.

So let's put in the safeguards now instead of later.

I think you could see it.

The tech companies at times

be a little bit absorbed by self-interest, but they're not nefarious actors, right?

My issue with this is, and what I try to find optimism in the future here, Charlie, is that eventually, you know, state actors,

hacker groups, someone with actual nefarious intent that you can't go and lobby and you can't have you don't have people with ethics trying to deal with are going to get control of this stuff and do things that can be really harmful and maybe irreversible.

I think that that is

potentially true.

I mean, all of this is it's difficult because we're we're in speculation territory.

It's difficult as a journalist, you know, writing about this without

going too far or

scaring people too much.

But I mean, I think what this ha what the last 18 months of sort of you know, information crisis world that we're in should be teaching us right now is that this is everyone's problem.

Lawmakers, you know, need to get smart on this stuff quick.

They need to, you know, be putting pressure on

companies.

And I think they need to spend time

really understanding this technology themselves and getting the government ready.

There's not a lot of

task forces here to combat computational propaganda or misinformation.

Charlie, look how we're dealing with Russia.

Everybody's talking about, oh, well, Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

Russia, look at what Russia is doing.

We can get to the rest of that.

And, you know, if somebody did something, they should go to jail.

But we're missing the point that Russia has come in and

announced in advance what they were going to do.

And they did it.

I think that

what

state-sponsored actors, all of this, you know,

is clearly manipulatable by them.

And I think that we

I think that that's certainly one one piece of the puzzle.

I think that

I think that this technology we've we've spent so long thinking that this technology is is a a universal positive, um that there's no negative externalities to connecting the world.

Um and I think that that is you know that that's a a naive look at this.

And I think that we need to sort of change the way that that we message about this technology, that it's just as much a force for

evil, potentially, as it is a force for good and for

the free circulation of information.

So I think that some of it just has to do with our mindset with this.

A new innovation

is not good just by definition.

You have to earn that.

Charlie, I've been concerned about this for a very long time, and I was really glad to see your article

and

the fact that it was on BuzzFeed and people are reading it.

And I'd love to stay in touch with you and have you on the program again as we follow this story.

Thank you very much, Charlie.

Thanks for having me.

Leave you with one last quote from Aviv Ovadaya, the expert Charlie talked to.

Alarmism can be good.

You should be alarmist about this stuff.

We are so screwed, it's beyond what most of us can imagine.

Geez, it's scary.

Charlie Warzell will tweet it from at World of Stew, but he's at CWarzell on Twitter, and you can get his work at BuzzFeed.

It's really interesting stuff.

He dives into a lot of weird worlds, and it's really compelling.

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Glenn back Mercury.

Glenn back.

So, what do you do with information like that, Stu?

What do you do with information?

I find it very difficult to find a path to optimism with that stuff because as I kind of expressed him, it's like, you know, I think we actually, I have a lot of faith in capitalism, right?

Where eventually these companies, I think, will try.

I think we will find in our best interests a lot of things that will push them in the right directions with it over time.

I have a much different

belief when it comes to, you know, negative actors, when it comes to terrorism, when it comes to nation states, eventually somebody gets control of this, and the information is so powerful.

Whoever can pull off that first really good fake of that politician saying that thing they didn't say is going to be really devastating.

And it's going to be, I mean, can you imagine if someone came out like if

Anthony Weiner came out, right?

And I mean, he tried it.

He said, oh, that was just a hack.

It was just a hack.

Nobody believed him.

Nobody believed him.

And imagine if they had him on video and

it was lengthy and perfect.

And they said, oh no, that's been hacked.

That's not really me.

Nobody's going to believe them.

The first time.

For a while.

Yeah, for a while.

For a few.

For a while.

And eventually we'll get to a point where, oh, my gosh, this is happening.

And then nobody believes anything.

Which might be worse.

Yeah.

Then it's the,

I mean, can you believe, Stu, we're here back in the 90s,

20 years ago,

you and I were talking, and I said, there's going to come a time where digitally you'll be able to manipulate anything.

You won't believe your ears.

You won't believe your eyes.

And we're here.

Yeah.

We're here.

We're here right at the very beginning of it.

I mean, there's so many great things.

We just have to weather this storm.

You know, Ray Kurzweil, who has almost a 90% accuracy rate of his predictions since the 1970s,

he believes that, quote, all disease will be cured by 2030.

Wow.

All disease.

We have such a bright future that we are right on top of if we don't destroy ourselves first.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.

Another school shooting.

The gunfire lasted less than 10 minutes, but this was.

Heavily armed with a bulletproof vest, loads of ammunition, and a powerful AR-15.

Another debate about banning guns.

Keep assault rifles out of the hands of people who are going to shoot our kids.

I want this to be the catalyst, the end of the Second Amendment.

Now, more than ever, you need to know the facts.

Get control.

Exposing the truth about guns on Amazon and wherever books are sold.

Beginning next week, we're going to start taking you through all of those arguments and

really preparing you for what is going to be that March.

That's when everybody is going to be talking about this again, and we need to be prepared with the rock-solid arguments.

So we're going to be going over those beginning on Monday on this program.

Welcome to Pat Gray.

Pat, we've been on the air while Donald Trump gave his speech.

We have selections from Donald Trump where he was talking about, you know, I have proven I'm a conservative.

I have cut taxes and I have done a great job on judges, which he has.

There's a real legacy to Donald Trump on judges that I don't think people are really talking about what he has done on judges, not just Gorsuch.

Yeah, that one pretty much universally praised by conservatives more than any other part of his agenda, I would say.

And, you know, he's out of the way of whoever is making the calls on the judges.

And

this is game-changing,

the calls that he's made on the judges.

What else did he talk about?

While I was listening, he was was talking about trade, the trade deficit.

And we are $500 billion

in deficit to China.

We are $100 billion

in deficit to Mexico, and it's unacceptable, and all those things are going to be redone.

NAFTA, it's going away.

He's back on that because he was talking about it staying for a while.

He didn't seem to be on that track right now.

And the World Trade Organization, which created China, he says as soon as the WTO is created, China went like a rocket ship to the top.

And so that's going to be redone.

We're going to get out of that.

We're going to redo all these things.

If they won't come to an agreement, we're going to redo them all.

And we'll start over again.

You think that's negotiation?

Because he hasn't really done much of that yet.

I don't think that's a good idea.

I just think that's the part of his agenda he hadn't gotten to yet.

And I think now he's.

That's the part he cares about deeply.

Oh.

He cares about that.

He talks about it all the time.

And so I think this is the year he gets to it because he got to some of the other things.

And, you know, they got the tax cut done.

They couldn't get Obamacare eliminated, although he said we're doing it piecemeal, and maybe that's the better way.

Well, they did get rid of the biggest

defense, I would say, the individual mandate, which is

what he said that they've essentially gutted in eliminating Obamacare.

I mean, we all talked about that, that you've got to get rid of the mandate.

And if you have, if you get rid of the mandate, then the whole thing collapses.

Unfortunately, it was a different scenario when we were talking about that eight years ago.

Now, you know, you don't necessarily want that just to fall apart and collapse on you without something for it to fall into, like the free market system.

No, the mandate is what separates Obamacare from your typical bad program and something that is absolutely unconstitutional and is an embarrassment that it was enacted.

The fact that they got rid of the mandate does

change that, I think.

It's a move in the right direction, no matter what happens to Obamacare, because we have a lot of crap heap programs where we spend a lot of tax dollars to do nothing.

We've got a lot of those.

There's a million of those.

And

those have been around for a while.

The mandate, forcing people to purchase a product, is so ridiculously unconstitutional that

I'm very happy that that is gone, I will say.

And that was a big part of it.

He also was a little self-deprecating, which is not a

part.

Yeah, this is Donald Trump talking about his bald spot.

I try like hell to hide that bald spot, folks.

I work hard.

That is.

Doesn't look bad.

Hey, we're hanging in.

We're hanging in.

That is.

Wow.

This is amazing for him.

Wow.

That's the first time I've ever heard him mention a bald spot.

I mean, that's self-deprecating.

That kind of stuff makes him more likable.

No question about it.

Yeah.

Shows he's, you know, he doesn't take himself too seriously.

He's human.

Yeah.

He's human.

Yeah.

I guess now, you know, people are speculating that he just finally came out and said this because he's been asked about this for years.

People grabbed his hair in interviews.

I mean, it's been.

Why was CPAC the place where he

only,

you know, the speculation is because of that video that came out a few, a couple weeks ago, which I did not

believe at first.

I haven't seen the video.

You haven't seen the video.

You haven't seen the video?

I don't think so.

So you've got a bald spot?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look at just

Google.

Just Google Trump's bald spot.

You won't believe it.

It looks like.

I didn't believe it.

Yeah, we thought it was fake initially.

Because it looks like the Phantom of the Opera.

He's walking up the steps.

He had to say it then, right?

I mean,

he kind of had to.

Well, you know,

look,

there's a lot of times people say to Donald Trump, you got to say this, you got to say this, and he doesn't do it.

True.

And so for him to take a step kind of in a self-deprecating manner,

I think is a really good step.

It is.

It makes him more

human.

It definitely makes him more likable.

Yeah.

It definitely does.

So the video, if you haven't seen it, is him walking up the steps of Air Force One, right?

Wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, the wind is on a tarmac, so it's very windy.

And a flap opens up on the back of his head.

Oh, no, really?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, Have you not found it?

Not yet.

Oh, you have to see.

I want to see

your reaction.

It is, it's like,

it's amazing.

I thought it was fake because it's so bad.

The way it looks, it's so bad.

But he seemingly handled it pretty well, handled it graciously in the moment.

Which is odd again.

Really good.

Yeah.

Maybe he's grown into this job.

That would be nice.

Well, he's had a good week, man.

I mean,

his deal with the guns was much better than the CNN version of the conversation.

I mean,

that was the way the media portrays all Trump rallies.

Yeah, exactly.

They had switched and it did a good job.

He was being presidential.

It'll be interesting to see.

I mean, because he's taking, or he's signaling steps that I don't agree with when it comes to the Second Amendment.

And I'm concerned about that.

But he hasn't done them yet.

We'll see kind of where that goes.

I think, you know, right now the Republican Congress, which many of them are completely spineless, right, are sitting back and looking for permission to vote for anti-Second Amendment legislation.

They want to be able to say to people, look, we took this seriously and the information changed and we're going.

It's common sense.

We had to do it.

And the only way they'll be able to justify that to their constituency is if Trump gives them permission.

If Trump comes out and supports those things, then they'll all fall in line.

I think the same thing goes.

If he opposes them, they'll all oppose them.

But I mean, he really does lead the leash.

Well, I mean,

let me play something.

Let me play Cuomo versus Charles Cook.

Charles Cook, who is great, he's on this network from time to time, and he was part of the real news.

He's just a great thinker.

Now, listen to him, and he's clear with logic.

He's doing math.

Cuomo is doing Common Core math.

Listen to this.

I don't understand why there'd be resistance to, you know, especially for

lawful people.

Why wouldn't you have all sales applicable to a background check?

Well, the first argument, and I think this is always a good thing to remember when government gets involved, whether it's the war on terror or drugs, is that, as I say, there isn't a great deal of evidence that it works or that sheriffs prioritize it in states that have them.

The second reason is that as it has been suggested thus far, it would effectively create a gun registry.

And gun registries are opposed, I think, for good reason by those who have an interesting...

But you already have it for the majority of sales.

This would just be making it in all transactions.

Why create a loophole when you don't need one?

Its practical impact is something to consider.

But as a prophylactic device, I just don't understand

a good argument against it.

Well, I think, as I say, a good argument against it is that recent studies conducted, it should be said, by gun control advocates and written up by gun control advocates have conceded that there doesn't seem to be much evidence that it does anything.

And if we're trying to improve the situation on the ground here, then that doesn't seem to be...

Listen to this logic from Chris.

Well, and the argument for it would be you might as well try whatever you can because you have so many guns getting into the room.

This is the worst chance, but Charles.

This is a good idea.

Yeah, go ahead.

Make your final point.

Well, I think that, you see, I think that's where we have to be careful here, because there is this argument in the aftermath of mass shootings.

And we saw a lot of it last night in what I thought was an unhelpful town hall held at the wrong time

we see a lot of this argument you have to do something but of course we don't all agree we need to do anything there Marco Rubio came out last night against the idea of say arming teachers now it wouldn't be a particularly convincing response to say well why doesn't he just want to do something

but he did say he would do certain things you know he did no I agree but but but just saying well why don't we just do something why don't we try that there's nothing to lose is not a standard we apply across the board no no that's understood disagreeing not arbitrary things.

Absolutely.

There has to be a reasonable understanding of it.

No, but look, Charles, what I'm saying, we agree.

You should do things that are calculated to make a real difference.

You should base it on debate and data and research in the areas.

There's no question about that.

There's no reason just to

throw out any kind of solution that won't work.

But look, at the end of the day, it's a debate worth having.

We need all sides, and I appreciate you being here.

Take it easy.

You didn't say anything.

You just lost the argument.

He just lost the argument.

We agree.

We need to make sure that we're looking at research and data.

Right.

I just told you the research and data says it does nothing.

Right.

But in the end, you know, he wanted to say, but in the end, we do need to do something.

Right.

And by the way, that something is the thing I want.

Yeah.

No other thing because there's lots of other things out there that I don't think we should do to do something.

But the thing I want to do should be the something we should do.

And I have to tell you, Charles, his response is, well,

you know,

the president said, arm teachers.

That's doing something.

And you could see Cuomo, like immediately, his body language, it just shifted to dismiss, well, arming teachers.

Well, that's just stupid.

Well, wait.

Why don't we just try it?

Why don't we

just do something?

Pat Gray, Unleashed, coming up on the Blaze Radio and TV network just a moment.

Well, we think the thing that you're suggesting is stupid.

That's why we're dismissing it.

You know, it's interesting.

I keep hearing this about the teachers and arming the teachers.

And I'm not saying it's my top policy prescription for this, but

stop for a second.

We keep hearing these same things come out of people's mouths, even from teachers.

They're like, you know, I'm teaching algebra.

I don't want to be...

I don't want to be defending kids.

I don't want to be pointing

Smith and Wesson while I'm

teaching algebra.

You're not going to be pointing it when you're teaching algebra.

You're going to be pointing it when an active shooter is at your door.

Correct.

The same thing with the security situation with the deputy.

He's out there and they're like, this proves that security at schools won't work.

The guy just stood outside and didn't do anything.

Well, first of all, yes, it is a requirement of the policy for the guy to go inside.

Yes, I all

granted.

But again, take everybody in that situation.

You're a minute and a half into that.

You have a choice to make.

Would you rather have a security personnel that's armed walking up to the building who may or may not come inside?

Or would you rather have nobody?

Yeah.

Nobody with guns inside.

Nobody with guns.

Let me just say this.

Why did we not have a problem when

the airlines trained everyone on the flight deck

to use a gun after 9-11?

Remember that?

We were going to have our pilots have guns.

Yep.

And we had our Navy SEALs and all of the experts go in and train the people on the flight deck how to use a gun.

Then we hardened the door.

Air marshals?

As well.

And we put air marshals in.

Somebody on the plane with a gun.

Well, you don't want a shootout in an airplane.

Yeah, if it means we're all going to die or he dies.

Yeah, I'm going to go for the shootout in the airplane.

What you really don't want is a one-person shootout.

Those shootouts suck.

Right.

because there's nothing you can do about it.

When one person starts shooting, you want a two or three or four-person shootout.

You want bullets flying both ways once they start flying one way.

Doesn't seem to be a problem to

arm our pilots.

Why is it a problem to arm and train some teachers?

I don't see a problem with it, but it may not.

Look, it's not going to solve every one of these things.

No.

It didn't.

Security on friends

are the problem.

Everything worked when it came to this shooting, as far as security goes, until the guy stayed outside.

And maybe sometimes people will fail.

These are impossible situations to predict how you're going to act.

But I mean, don't you want the possibility of success?

They're rejecting the possibility of success for the possibility of failure.

I would just like to say that the failure is not just on Scott Peterson, the sheriff's deputy.

Oh, no, no, no.

But on the sheriff himself and whoever is training

not see this as a problem.

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Glenn Beck Mercury

Glenn back.

You want to know why

you know what?

You'll never be able to stop people, especially now that there's 3D printing.

Listen to this.

Story just broke.

28 firearms, 66,000 rounds of ammunition seized from a man who was not supposed to have any of these weapons.

13 AR-15 style weapons he had, and 11 of them were ghost guns,

which were a short-barrel AR-15 style, fully automatic machine guns.

Now, how did he get those?

Well, these guns are firearms that are untraceable by law enforcement due to their lack of serial numbers because they are built by an individual, not a manufacturer.

So someone built these by 11 machine guns he had.

Right, and not just FYI.

That's somebody building them.

Now that we have the plans out on the internet and 3D printing, you can print guns.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.