Best of the Program | Guest: Dr. Jay Bhattacharya | 9/25/25

ABC Wednesdays, the Golden Bachelor is all new.

Hi, Mel.

Hello.

Former NFL star Mel Owens is looking for his second chance at love.

I'm hopeful that I'll find true love.

But these women are in a league of their own.

Mel has never been exposed to women like us.

I don't know how he can handle it all.

The Golden Bachelor season premiere.

To love, happiness, and fun.

Wednesdays, 9-8 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

Today's podcast, The Light Shines Through the Darkness, and this light is still worth fighting for in this country.

If you don't believe in free speech for everybody, regardless of what being said, whether you agree with it or not, then you're not in line with being an American.

Are you in line with being a terrorist or a fascist?

Let me explain.

And Dr.

Jay Bhattacharya on Tylenol.

Let me tell you about Jace Medical.

When things go sideways, everyone looks for somebody who's prepared, the person who packed the extra water, the ones who has the generator, you know, who knows where the flashlight is, all of this stuff.

But what about medicine?

When a family member gets sick and the pharmacy is closed, or when infection hits, you know, and you are hours away from care, what do you do?

This is a case where you need the JACE case because you don't want to wait for the crisis.

You want to get ready for one.

You think ahead.

You plan for what matters.

JACE Medical provides emergency antibiotics and essential medications through secure online consultation with licensed providers.

You're not just getting pills, you're getting a doctor-approved, clearly labeled medical toolkit that puts the knowledge and resources into your hands right where they belong.

Order the Jace case at jacejas.com because you never know what's going to come next.

And boy, I mean, again, people are saying it could be the rapture today, so maybe you don't need the Jace case, but have it just in case it doesn't happen.

Enter the promo code Beck at checkout for a discount on your order.

That's promo codebeck at jase.com.

Hello, America.

You know we've been fighting every single day.

We push back against the lies, the censorship, the nonsense of the mainstream media that they're trying to feed you.

We work tirelessly to bring you the unfiltered truth because you deserve it.

But to keep this fight going, we need you.

Right now, would you take a moment and rate and review the Glenn Beck podcast?

Give us five stars and leave a comment because every single review helps us break through big tech's algorithm to reach more Americans who need to hear the truth.

This isn't a podcast.

This is a movement, and you're part of it, a big part of it.

So if you believe in what we're doing, you want more people to wake up, help us push this podcast to the top.

Rate, review, share.

Together, we'll make a difference.

And thanks for standing with us.

Now let's get to work.

You're listening to

the best of the Blenbeck Program.

This is the Blenbeck Program.

I saw J.K.

Rowling say something the other day.

She gave a couple of definitions, and I wanted to add to it.

She said, if you believe that free speech is for you, but not your political opponents, you're a liberal.

If no contrary evidence could change your belief, you're a fundamentalist.

If you believe the state should punish those with contrary views, you are a totalitarian.

If you believe political opponents should be punished with violence or death, you are a terrorist.

I think those are pretty clear definitions that we should all kind of hang our hat on.

If you can't agree with those things, if free speech is for you, but not others who disagree,

you don't believe in liberal principles.

And I mean that.

Yeah, that's the thing.

The only thing I would say when you say clarity, illiberal is a term in academic circles people are very you know familiar with but you you're either

you're not truly for freedom right that yeah okay if you know if if nothing will change your mind nothing will change your mind then you are a fundamentalist period so clear state should punish those with contrary views that's totalitarianism political opponents should be punished with violence or death.

That's a terrorist.

Those are easy.

However, if if you believe every man no matter their color their station their creed their religion they have the same right as every other man and woman and all of the responsibilities that come with those rights such as standing up to defend others with whom you disagree you're open to other points of view you're willing to change your mind if the evidence or truth is shown to you

then I think that makes you an American.

And the best thing about being free and being an American and about life, the way it actually works, is you get to choose.

Those are the definitions.

You get to choose which one are those?

Which one are you?

Which one?

You know, so many people don't think they have a choice, but they do.

Every day you have a choice.

Every day you can reset.

You know, your body completely changes.

Every cell changes like every seven years.

You're a completely new body every seven years.

You can change your thinking and change your life so quickly.

I have seen it.

I've done it myself.

I've seen it happen.

I've seen what Charlie Kirk chose to do.

I saw him when he was young.

He chose, he didn't go to college.

He wasn't indoctrinated.

He chose to study every day.

He chose what he wanted to learn and who he wanted to be.

And look at how he, because he applied himself, relentlessly every day.

That's a huge commitment.

Look at who he turned into.

Why can't you do that?

Why can't I do that?

The answer is, you can.

I can.

You can.

Change or choose your thinking and change your life.

What kind of society do you want to live in?

Do you want to live in a peaceful, law-abiding, free society?

If you do, then you have to choose the thoughts in your own life every day that will create that society.

And by saying you don't have a right to speak and I do, if I disagree with you, you should be killed, you're not creating that.

Your thoughts are out of line.

And that's really what's happening because there is and it's truly mental illness.

It is truly mental illness.

Let me speak to those women who are chugging Tylenol because of science.

You're not doing it because of science.

You did did it as performance.

You did it to mock, to score points.

But the point you're making is not the point you think you're making.

Because you most likely were one of the people that were demanding lockdowns.

You insisted that we listen to the studies and we trust the experts, even when the experts didn't know their butt from their elbow, when the experts continued to contradict themselves every week,

you said, no, if you question this, you're killing children and grandparents.

And you demanded compliance.

But now,

the same class of officials in exactly the same roles

say, perhaps you should use caution with Tylenol in pregnancy.

Not a ban, not a mandate, just you should use caution.

And suddenly, it's like Adolf Hitler is telling you that you can never have a baby.

I mean, it is, what?

Do you see any contradiction in your actions here?

Same roles, just different scientists.

Same roles.

What we said was, I don't want to listen to those.

I see what they're saying, but I disagree with that.

Then they come out.

These new ones come out after you say, no, no, no, you should be, you shouldn't even be treated, Glenn Beck.

If you go into a hospital, you shouldn't even be treated like a human being should be treated because you didn't follow the rules.

So you're out.

I'm saying this is a suggestion from the same people in the same roles, but now you don't like it.

And should we treat you in the hospital if you're going in and something's happening with your baby because you took too much Tylenol?

Of course, of course we should treat you.

Of course we should.

This isn't principle on when when you're gobbling the Tylenol on this,

don't you see the contradiction here?

It's not principle.

It's not science.

It's just for you, it's all about power.

When your side rules, then it's okay.

You can tell everybody you can't defy it.

But if somebody else rules,

you can defy it.

That's not integrity.

That's hypocrisy.

And hypocrisy.

erodes so much more than trust.

It feeds chaos.

And look around you.

Look around you.

As you're gobbling the Tylenol, look around you.

Assassins are coming out from the shadows, acts of violence that make no sense.

No sense.

People being pushed out of reason into madness, a society that is truly unraveling at the edges.

We've seen this before.

We saw this in Rome, final century.

Politics became a blood sport.

People were cheering on other humans being eaten by lions.

It was a blood sport.

The Senate no longer debated things, not in reason.

It was just mobs in the streets.

Daggers settled arguments when words couldn't.

That's where we're headed.

Weimar Germany, neighbors

turned into enemies, neighbors did.

Hypocrisy turned into absolute fury.

And eventually, total collapse.

1850s, same here in America.

Rage,

people calling each other all kinds of things.

And then we had Civil War.

And you're still fighting the same civil war.

Was it about states' rights or was it about slavery?

Come on, man.

It's not that hard.

It's not that hard.

Let me ask you:

for those who are chugging the Tylenol, how far away are you from that breaking point?

Because you seem very close.

From mockery to madness is not a long road.

It's not.

How much hate, how much hypocrisy does it take to nudge you into one more step to violence?

A week?

A year?

One spark?

I don't know.

You may not think that you would do that.

But did you think you would be gobbling Tylenol

to make a political point ever?

Would you ever have thought, oh, I'm going to be really proud someday.

I'm just going to go on an unhinged rant and just take fistfuls of Tylenol because they said that you should be cautious with it.

Where is the logic in that?

So don't tell me you can't get there because look where you are.

The truth is only humility is going to fix this.

You got to, and we all have to do it.

I was wrong to demand obedience then.

I'm wrong to mock caution

now.

You have to be willing to stand on on principle.

Freedom requires consistency and honesty, and that's the only thing that will reverse this spiral.

Man, are you a pawn in a performance?

Are you a woman just trapped in tribal rage?

What is that?

Become a citizen.

Become a human again.

Become somebody who listens, weighs, reasons, chooses, chooses for yourself.

Stop listening to the mass.

Stop listening.

If you're listening to me and you're like, you know what, everything he says is right, you're a moron.

Form your own opinions.

Go do your own homework.

Study it yourself.

These are my opinions.

I own these opinions.

What's yours?

If we don't start doing that, then history tells us exactly what comes next.

And I promise none of us want to live through that.

And by the way,

I don't know if you've

We have Jay Bhattacharya on with us next hour.

We're going to talk about this Tylenol thing.

Did you hear about the woman who was making the point with Tylenol?

She's now in the hospital, overdose.

We hope she's okay.

Maybe we'll have an update next hour.

But

does that seem reasonable?

Check your reason.

Choose your thoughts.

Choose what you think about.

Choose what you read.

Understand that everything you choose to put into your head will grow whatever it is you think you want.

If it's not in line with what you're thinking, what you're choosing to think about yourself and your country all the day.

You're never going to create a peaceful, loving.

caring, united country where we can all get along if your thoughts are constantly, I got to stop these people.

And that will work for both sides.

Let me talk to you about the Burna launcher.

Danger doesn't check to see if you're big enough, strong enough, or trained enough to fight back.

It just shows up.

fast, sudden, without apology.

And in that moment, you need more than good intentions.

The compact launcher from Burna is built exactly for that kind of situation.

It's small enough to carry discreetly, legal in all 50 states.

No permit is required, powerful enough to stop a threat without taking a life, and it's not a toy.

It's a non-lethal, high-pressure launcher that fires chemical irritant rounds designed to incapacitate and give you the chance to escape.

You don't need to aim for a vital organ.

You don't need to justify lethal force.

You just need to buy yourself time and space to get safe.

And because it's compact, it fits into your life exactly how you live.

Your bag, your car, your hand.

Without announcing itself, it's ready when you need it.

Visit burna.com slash glenn, get 10% discount off your purchase.

They're all assembled here in America, made, 90% of it made here in America as much as they can.

I'm going to go visit their factory up in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

I love these guys.

Visit Sportsman's Warehouse and you can get a discount off your purchase, 10%.

Just go to Berna, B-Y-R-N-A.com/slash Glenn.

Find out all about it, burna.com/slash Glenn.

Now, back to the podcast.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program, and we really want to thank you for listening.

The Lamentations says,

Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by?

Let me ask you something, and this is not something I'm just asking yourself.

This is something I've been wrestling with, not just as a broadcaster, but as a citizen, as a dad, a husband, a believer, a man who has spent, really honestly,

most of my life now trying to understand the ark of history and the voice of God through all of it.

The question I've been asking

is a tough one.

Is all of this worth saving?

This thing we call Western civilization,

this project that was born in Judea, refined in Athens, tested in Rome,

reawakened in Wittenberg,

baptized again on the shores of our own Plymouth Rock.

This is a gift that we were all handed.

We didn't earn it.

We didn't purchase it, we were given it.

Do we want it?

Do we even want it?

Because if we don't want it, what are we doing?

Is it worth saving?

Because if it's not, again, what are we doing?

But if it is,

what are we doing?

All across Europe, the streets are restless, not just with protest, but with something far more ancient, and it is hatred.

The kind of hatred that once fed ovens and marched under banners with swastikas

until now, now it just marches under flags that claim peace and

chant things about a call for genocide,

more violence in the streets.

We are fractured.

In this country, it's left versus right, flesh against spirit, neighbor against neighbor.

Truth doesn't seem to have a home.

And even the church, God help us, even the church has been found slumbering or worse, collaborating with it.

We're told by everybody in our society that everything has to be reset.

Everything you learned in history was a mistake.

It's not true.

Tradition, marriage, all of it, spondage, slavery, gender, it's fiction.

Faith, that's hate.

truth, hate.

And the only sin left is believing in the absolute truth.

And then when you take a breath, you look at the paper and you see that AI is rising and borders are falling.

You look inside your home and our children are confused and they're medicated and addicted and fatherless and suicidal.

The universities are mocking.

what little is left of Western virtue.

Our national debt can't be repaid.

Our Congress is just screwing around more and more every day, it seems.

Our elections no longer feel sacred.

Our media doesn't inform, it just programs.

Our schools don't educate anymore.

They recondition, they retrain, they indoctrinate.

So, I ask you again:

is any of this worth saving?

I ask you,

in all humility, in the spirit of a prophet standing before the ruins, holding the ashes of his people in his hands.

That is the only question we need to answer.

Is it worth it?

Because if it's not, let's stop.

But if it is,

can we get to work?

I mean, honestly, get to work.

If it's worth saving, then we have to know why.

Why is it worth saving?

And if it's not, then may God forgive us for what we're about to allow.

So can before we do anything in the news, can we just start with this?

Let's start with what is the West?

What is it?

You want to save Western civilization?

What is it?

Is it a location?

No.

Is it a race?

God forbid.

A flag?

A constitution?

No.

The West is an idea.

The West was an idea to escape all of the old oppressive ideas.

It's the idea that man himself is made in the image of God and that liberty does not come from kings or government, but it is a responsibility from heaven, that truth exists, that evil exists and courage is required every day

education self-education not self-medication self-education is required from each of us every day it's the idea that a man can speak his mind and not be silenced by a mob or a monarch that a child can dream and not be forced into slavery, whether that's the slavery of the body or slavery of the mind.

The West is an idea that reason and revelation walk hand in hand, they're not at war.

That beauty matters,

that kindness matters,

that empathy matters, that beauty matters, that sacrifice is holy, that justice is blind, and mercy is always near.

That's what we inherited.

And that's what we squandered.

We allowed comfort to replace conviction.

We allowed entertainment to replace education, pleasure to replace purpose.

We handed screens to our children instead of our scriptures.

We forgot.

our story.

We forgot who we were.

We don't think it's worth fighting for because we don't know who we are anymore.

And boy, our enemies are only too happy to write an ending for us.

If not now,

when?

When?

When will it be time to get serious?

If it's not now, when will it become time for you to say, I'm committed?

And if not you,

who

is this worth saving

is this worth dying for

oh yes

yes it is and so much more it's worth living for truly living

it's worth saving

And this civilization, no matter how rocky it is, whatever its sins may be, was built on the blood of martyrs and prophets and poets and pilgrims and moms and dads and soldiers.

They died for it.

They didn't die for the stock market.

They didn't die for pronouns.

Not for surveillance.

Not for centralized digital currency, surely.

They died for something higher, something bigger.

I don't believe that's lost, not yet.

Because I believe resurrection is real.

And not just in the tomb outside of Jerusalem,

but in the bones of any group of people that return to truth.

Any group of people, any individual that returns to God, returns to honor, returns to truth.

No matter how unfashionable, no matter how,

no matter the cost, returns to truth with humility, asking for forgiveness from their God, from their fellow human beings.

It's not too late

for any group of people that return to family, to community, to accountability, to self-accountability and responsibility.

It's not too late because I I have to tell you,

I really strangely mean this.

What an honor it is to live at this time.

And after Charlie's death,

I feel that way even more.

We are living in historic times.

What we do now will affect the lives of generations of people all over the world.

What's happening in Europe right now, it's going to be up to us.

What's happening in South Korea,

I urge you to follow what we're finding now in South Korea.

It's happening everywhere, and it will come down to us.

But we were selected at this time to live at this time.

We were made for a time such as this.

Maybe the reason you care

is because somewhere inside of you, you know that.

Because somewhere inside of you, you know, you were called to help carry this fire.

We're not called to win.

All we're called to do is to stand.

Is it worth standing?

Is it worth saving?

It's still true.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Pick up your torch.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

Welcome to the Glenn Beck program.

The world has gone insane,

and people are now just swallowing handfuls of uh Tylenol just to I guess prove Donald Trump wrong or what I don't know what it is it's just it's it's a lack of sanity I think we have one person now in the hospital she was making one of these videos she was pregnant she swallowed a handful and

now she's on a ventilator

you know

Tylenol we we all know this it's it's it's good for you to some degree too much and it's really really bad for you you know and I don't understand.

I do not believe that the

NIH director was ever saying, you know, it's bad, it's evil, and you can't ever take it.

No, it was a recommendation.

And we can find out now because Dr.

Jay Bhattacharya is with us now.

Doctor, how are you, sir?

I'm good, Glenn.

So good to be on the show with you.

Really honored by the invitation.

Oh, you're doing a fabulous job.

You really are.

And I can't thank you enough.

Can you please sort through this madness on Tylenol?

First of all,

what you started with, it's absolutely heartbreaking.

If you're listening,

don't overdose.

Don't take too much Tylenol.

I mean, it's well known to cause liver toxicities if you overdose.

You know, if you're not pregnant and you have a headache or you have a fever,

it's fine.

Just take it at the right dose.

Don't overdo it.

And certainly don't overdo it to make some ridiculous political point.

It's just heartbreaking to hear that story of someone

whose liver failed because of some crazy politics.

The key thing that we found that led to the announcement is that there's been a whole sort of range of research in recent years that establishes that there's this association between taking Tylenol late in pregnancy and subsequent neurodevelopmental conditions like autism, like like ADHD.

There's a big fight in the literature over how strong that association is.

So some people think it's really strong and other people think it's less strong.

In my review of the literature, I thought that

there's enough there to tell people,

especially pregnant women, to be careful with it.

If you have a high fever and there's no other way to manage it, then yeah, you should, with the advice of your doctor, take some so that you can manage the fever, which itself is also bad for kids

and for moms.

But if it's some other, if it's less harmful than that, if it's less serious than that, then avoid taking it because it's just good medicine.

I believe I have an obligation when I see something in the scientific literature that people should know about to help them make decisions in their own lives, that I should be able to tell people with the caveats exactly I've said.

And that's exactly what we were doing in the last few days, is to tell people, look, there is this literature.

Most people I've talked with don't know about it.

They don't realize that there is this.

I'm looking at a Reuters story from 2013.

Too much Tylenol in pregnancy could affect development.

Too much frequent use towards the end of pregnancy may be linked to poor language skills and behavior problems among children, according to a new study.

I mean,

this has not been a secret.

And I don't understand why all of a sudden this is insane.

Because did you ever, ever intend on saying, you cannot take it?

We're banning it.

Or were you just saying, hey, you should be careful of this?

There are studies that show this.

You should just be aware.

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly the latter, Glenn.

We were aiming to tell moms, you know, pregnant moms who were that

there is this evidence, and so just be careful.

Talk to your doctor before you take it.

Even the Tylenol label says

to be careful in pregnancy, because there aren't great

toxicology studies that were done in pregnant women before Tylenol

was approved for the population at large.

It's an over-the-counter drug.

It has its uses, but

be aware of when it's appropriate to use it, when it's not, and be judicious.

That was what we were saying.

And I think the key thing here is

it's something called Trump derangement syndrome, right?

So you had President Trump...

I remember

in 2020, President Trump said we should open schools.

Remember that?

Yes.

And then all of a sudden, all these groups that were before he said that in favor of opening schools somehow all of a sudden changed their mind in contradiction to what the scientific evidence was saying and said, we should close schools.

There's something very odd about how some people react to what President Trump.

What President Trump said is

a more charismatic version of what I just said.

He said, don't take it unless you need to take it,

unless you really need it.

That's some substance of what he said.

And that's actually wise advice.

If you're pregnant women,

think carefully about whether you should take it, given this evidence.

I mean, I don't want five years from now, after the scientific debate has been resolved, and maybe it turns out that it is actually directly linked to autism, that for years of people taking it thinking that we don't know, when you could just say now, do prudent medicine.

Take it only if you really need it.

I just don't understand how this is twisted into something fascistic.

There's a post from 2017 from Tylenol that's going viral right now.

It says, we actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant.

Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns today.

A representative from the parent company said the statement was incomplete, but what was that about?

Do you know?

How long have we known about any potential problems?

Well, okay, so

there's the issue here is that the

company, the FDA regulates what it can and can't say, right?

So it's not allowed for pregnant women, it's not allowed to say that you can take it if you're pregnant because they have never tested it on women.

formally in a way that satisfies the FDA.

It's very difficult to do these kind of studies on pregnant women.

You can just imagine, do I recruit a whole bunch

of women who are

expecting and then say, well, I'm going to randomize you and give some of you Tylenol and some of you placebo and we'll see what happens.

I mean, that kind of study would be pretty hard to organize.

It's kind of unethical almost.

And so they don't have any evidence on this.

And so they're supposed to say, as they did in 2017, that

we can't recommend pregnant women take it because they don't have evidence to document its safety to the satisfaction of the FDA.

Now, the game played then is like doctors can tell you whatever they want.

They're not limited by the FDA, which is appropriate, right?

Doctors ought to be able to assess your individual situation and make recommendations.

And so, again, that's essentially what we were saying to the public.

If you really need it, talk to your doctor and decide,

knowing now what the literature says.

The president's announcement essentially was a form of informed consent for the whole public.

There's this literature.

It's worth thinking about, even if all the uncertainty is not resolved, and then be careful,

think about it

when you need it, when you don't need it, in consultation with your doctor, especially if you're pregnant.

So

let me, because I would imagine that this, when you guys decided to bring this out, it was like a Monday blip.

It was just like, yeah, let's go ahead and release this.

And then it's turned into some nightmare.

And you have other initiatives on how you're going to tackle

the autism epidemic.

What are you going to, what, I mean, this was Tylenol.

What are you expecting and

what's coming?

Glenn, it's so weird.

I mean, I'm new to

DC, so I guess maybe I'm still learning.

But I thought the big news from this was that we were going to,

we are.

NIH has just launched this massive autism data science initiative where we've gotten a dozen research teams examining the question, 13 actually, but research teams examining the question of what is the cause of autism?

And why has it risen so high in prevalence over coming years?

These are mysteries to medical science.

I don't know the full answer.

It's going to be complicated, whatever it is.

But we're finally starting to ask the questions in a way that's going to likely produce answers.

I thought that was going to be the big news out of this.

There was also a big, big announcement about this new treatment, this treatment that a lot of doctors have found effective for some, not all, but some kids who are profoundly autistic.

In some cases, I've seen

case reports where it's restored speech.

You know,

it's a drug called leukovorin that's been used for 40 years.

It's basically like it helps bring folate of a vitamin into your brain.

And the theory is that there's like folate deficiencies in some autistic kids in brain early in development in cognitive development.

It's really exciting.

We're telling people about this.

The FDA is going going to make an indication change so it's more widely available.

CMS is going to make this so that Medicare, you can get it if you have Medicaid or other kinds of insurance.

It could help a lot of families.

I thought those were going to be the big pieces of news.

Instead, we got this craziness of

Tylenol.

Is this?

Do you think this was coordinated or was just a bunch of mad people?

It's hard to, I don't know,

it

strikes me that so many of the people that are sort of chiming in from

the medical side

in panic over this are the same people who pushed lockdowns and mask mandates and like, you know, toddler masking and school closures and vaccine mandates and all the rest.

I mean, and you know,

many of them turn out to have been Ukraine war experts and Gaza war experts and who knows what else.

So

it's striking that we have such a great expert class in this country.

I keep coming back to this is what I want the FDA to do.

If the National Institute of Health and the FDA,

what I want them to do is make recommendations, follow the research and then say, hey, we recommend this.

We don't recommend this.

You should know this.

They should have to tell you that.

I don't want them making decisions for me.

I want my doctor to make the decisions.

And

this was the least autocratic thing I've seen in probably 20 years.

And it was like Hitler himself made this declaration.

I mean, yeah,

I just, it's it's mind-boggling.

I mean, many of the same quote experts that are like

taking this in a hyperbolic way were absolutely fine when people were getting fired over the vaccine mandates.

I don't, I just don't, it's, it's, it's and there was no good science behind their recommendations about the vaccine mandates.

The vaccine didn't stop you, COVID vaccine, didn't stop you from getting and spreading COVID.

Um, So why the mandates?

Like, why?

I think people need to just stop and take a breath and say, look, what is actually the evidence?

I mean, I hope I conveyed it in a nuanced way.

I'm not saying to you that I know for certain that

this is a cause.

There's a scientific debate going on, but I think that there's enough evidence in the scientific literature to warrant telling people when you take it, here you should know about this.

Why should we hide that from people?

Shouldn't.

Seems to be a very balanced approach.

Talking to Jay Bhattacharya,

Doctor, can you speak a little bit about the Swedish study that a lot of people have brought up?

It's about 2.5 million kids.

It said 1.33% chance of having autism without acetaminophen, 1.53% chance if you did have it during pregnancy.

They did say that the effect disappeared when controlling for siblings.

Is this just part of the tapestry of all the research you looked at?

How do you view this data?

Yeah, so in fact, we mentioned it.

I wrote an op-ed with Marty McCary and Mehmet Oz

where we referenced this specific study because this is a part of the literature that's that's more skeptical about the link, right?

That's big Swedish study.

And as you said, Glenn,

if you just do a straightforward analysis of the 2.5 million moms,

you find an increase in autism in the

moms that were exposed to Tylenol.

Now, the study wasn't good at measuring Tylenol use.

I think only about 7% of the moms reported using Tylenol in the treatment arm.

7% of the moms reported using Tylenol.

We know for a fact that that's underestimate.

They were looking at

electronic health records and other things.

They didn't really get the over-the-counter use.

So it does have some methodological issues.

But the big thing with a sibling studies are really interesting because you think to yourself, if I compare,

you have a mom.

During birth number one, she used Tylenol.

During birth number two, she didn't use Tylenol.

And what if during birth number one,

the baby turns out to have autism and birth number two, didn't use Tylenol, doesn't, that seems like strong evidence, right?

Because you have you've adjusted for the same common family environment, the same similar genes, because it's two siblings, right?

And it's a very attractive design, but it has problems, right?

So first of all,

in order, you can't, you don't have two and a half million moms that have siblings like this.

What you have is a much smaller sample of what I call, what's called discordant siblings.

So you have siblings, one who

received Tylenol during the birth and one who didn't, right?

That's a much smaller sample than the 2.5 million.

You're not actually looking at 2.5 million.

You're looking at much, as if you have a smaller sample, it's harder to pick up any effect, right?

You're not going to be, you have to find a significant effect

just statistically.

Second, the group of moms who use it in one pregnancy, doesn't use it in another, are very different from the moms used in both pregnancies or use it in one,

don't use it in either pregnancy, or who use it, or you know only have one one kid

very very different from you from each other I don't know that the results that you find among the because discordant

siblings translates over to the other groups

and then third is probably most important if you adjust away for the genetic differences and family diff family sort of shared family environment differences you might be adjusting away for the mechanism by which Tylenol actually causes autism right?

What you're doing, you're saying, oh, I'm narrowing it to only a narrow set of differences between the siblings.

Obviously, there's a shared genetic environment and a

shared family environment.

But what if the mechanism by which Tylenol use or the latent pregnancy causes autism leads through the thing that you controlled away?

You'll mask the true effect.

Jay,

I would love to continue to do this.

I've got a network break I have to to hit.

Thank you so much for everything you're doing.

Thank you for being a part of the program.

I appreciate it, and I hope we can talk again.

I'd love that, Glenn.

You bet.

Dr.

Jay Bhattacharia, National Institute of Health.

Fascinating.

This is a Bose moment.

You've been there before.

Somebody's apartment, small talk that's going nowhere, plastic cup that's almost empty.

It's not great.

Then someone hits play on a Bose speaker.

Heads nod, feet tap, one person dances, then everyone does.

Awkward becomes electric.

When Bose sound fills the room, you don't just hear the music, you feel it.

Your life deserves music.

Your music deserves Bose.

Find your perfect product at Bose.com/slash Spotify.