Hannah Brown: How to Feel Blessed in Your Mess and Love Yourself Finally!

We get so stuck in the, I think for me, get so stuck in what I should be and am I enough in this.

And so it is so important for me

to know that there's hope for the next hour.

I'm like crying.

We're a few minutes in.

I'm crying.

I get really anxious in the morning, which sucks to wake up that way.

So that's why hour by hour is so important to me.

It's the only thing that actually gives me true peace.

There's nothing that I can prove or do to have that.

It's innate.

It makes me emotional.

Sorry.

You get everybody to cry on the show.

Imagine loving yourself fully and entirely.

Imagine celebrating loving yourself.

And instead of feeling like it's somehow self-centered, realizing instead that loving yourself is the greatest gift you could possibly give to the people that you love most, including your kids, your partner, your family, and your friends.

Researchers say the amount of love you receive in your current friendships and relationships and the type of people you attract almost always mirrors the amount of love that you love yourself.

So the key to building love in every relationship in your life is to learn to truly love yourself.

And right now, 80% of women don't believe they're enough and 79% of men feel inadequate and not enough.

And if you're here listening right now, I have a feeling that like me, you're on a healing journey and a journey to learn to truly love yourself and believe you are enough because you are.

And today's incredible guest is on that same journey right alongside you and me.

You know her from The Bachelorette, Dancing with the Stars, Bachelor in Paradise, and also as a two-time New York Times best-selling author, People's Choice Award winner, and so much more.

Hannah Hannah Brown is here today and I am so excited as she's not only a light, she's also a true force.

Can you share with everybody what this new role is?

I am headed to the beach.

I've never experienced Bachelor in Paradise.

Going on to this beach, I am going to be the Paradise Relations.

This opportunity for me feels like a true

redemption and restoration because the show for me,

Bachelorette,

didn't go the way that I expected it to go.

It just feels like a full circle moment.

Bachelor fans, woo!

Bachelor Nation is loyal

and very, very all-in.

And I remember when you said, yes, I've had sex in the windmill and Jesus still loves me.

Hannah's incredible authenticity, rock, real honesty, and beautiful vulnerability has garnered garnered her more than four and a half million followers on social media where she advocates for mental health awareness and emphasizes the importance of self-love.

She currently lives in Nashville with her fiancé Adam and dog Wally,

and she also has a brand new book out now called The Four Engagement Rings of Sybil Rain.

And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.

Thank you so much for being here.

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Thank you so much.

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Also, this incredible podcast episode today, it's not just for you and me.

Please share this with every single person that you know who might need some inspiration today or perhaps a boost in their self-belief because what you're about to hear can truly impact mine yours and their life too welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show Oprah how have you defied the odds her show is unlike any I've ever done a revelation when you listen it feels like a hug but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like wow Melinda French Gates.

When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her.

I could see the light around her.

She's infused with light.

Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough.

Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Jamie Kern Lima is her name.

Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Jamie, you're so inspiring.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Hannah Brown, welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima Show.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so excited to get into today's topic of self-love.

I didn't know that.

And I feel like that not only relates to where I'm at in my life, but also

In my new book, We're Sybil, like the true essence of what the book is about is about self-love.

And so I'm so honored to be here to be able to talk about this.

What is what is self-love?

I think that for so many people, in a way, it's this new term in their life.

And I think, you know, past generations have always thought, like, oh, you're rewarded if you just love everyone else well and just like sacrifice yourself.

And that somehow that's the best thing for others.

But now you look at all the data, you look at all their research, and learning to truly love yourself is just the greatest gift you can give other people.

I think a lot of times kids, we could tell them what to do, but they actually see what we do and they see the example we set on how to value yourself, how to feel worthy.

So,

how does love start with you?

And what's the role of self-love in your life and your journey with that?

It has been that.

It's been a journey.

I think it's really hard to love yourself if you don't think you're worthy of that.

And so that recognition of, oh, I don't even know the true value of being able to have breath in my lungs and live in this world and that I was not put here on accident.

Like I have

a true mission and purpose.

And if you don't believe that first, or you feel like you got it wrong, or, you know, there was a mistake along the way that now was put to you off course, which we all kind of make mistakes along the way.

And I know for me, that had been, has been definitely part of the journey of realizing that all that's used

in a way that is so unique to me

and how blessed I am that I have this one unique path that is only for me and that it's going to be used to be an actual reflection of the love inside myself

for the world.

Like, that is what I believe our purpose on earth is to do.

But to truly be able to do that

in the way that we're called,

I think it does first start with the self of believing that.

I think we can say

super easily, oh, yeah, I love myself, but the bull actually believing it, that's the journey.

And I've been on that.

And I've realized in a lot of moments in my life,

I can know it.

There's a knowing that I am

connected to love, like the big love to God that I think is

the essence, the definition of love.

I can know that and

say I believe it, but do I really believe it?

And I've had to look in the mirror and be like, you know, sometimes I don't.

And I want to.

And so I'm going to do the hard work to believe that for myself and to also

trust

that God's got me

and that just being His

makes me worthy.

But

it has not been easy.

And I can, even just saying all that is a lot easier than it is day by day, minute by minute.

Even coming onto this podcast, I had a moment of like, am I worthy of being on here?

And do I have

the

right words to say?

Or have I had the

moments that I've wanted to have to feel like, oh,

I can step into this moment?

And then I just had a moment of prayer of like, yeah, this is my unique, my unique path that has allowed me to meet you, connect with you, and be able to tell my story.

And so that is just like,

you know, the hour by hour choosing to love myself and to to believe in where that love actually comes from, and that that is always true and it's always real.

That is so beautiful and so powerful.

And I feel that like I feel that deeply.

I feel that in my own life as well.

And I just want to call out something you just said for everyone listening because it's easy for someone on the outside to tune in and be like, Hannah Brown, everything in her life's amazing.

She just must wake up feeling worthy.

And to hear that what I know to be true everything on the outside never ever ever impacts our deep sense of worthiness and self-love on the inside it's always really an inside job and one thing you said that's so beautiful because I know so many people listening are going to relate to this is you said hour by hour hour by hour and what I hear that to mean for me is like oh or where I connected with that is like yeah for me in my own life it's like often an hour by hour thing where I have to say like am I you know enough you know, for my kids right now who are having a meltdown and don't like what I tried to cook, or whatever it might be, or am I enough right now to be sitting here with Hannah Brown?

Am I enough?

Like, it's an hour-by-hour thing.

And is that your greatest tool, would you say, to tap into reminding yourself and actually believing that you are worthy is knowing

who you are and that you come from

God?

Absolutely.

Like,

that is is my North Compass.

It's the only thing in the moments that

it makes me emotional.

Sorry.

You get everybody to crown the show.

Yeah, it is so,

it's the only thing that actually gives me true peace.

And I wish everybody could feel that and just for a moment.

Because I can't find it just for myself.

I think self-love is so important.

But what I really want to focus on is like

that love within myself doesn't come from me you know i don't have

there's nothing that i can prove or do to have that it's innate

but we get so stuck in the

sorry um

i think for me got get so stuck in what i should be and am i enough in this and like

If I relied on my own strength hour by hour, it could, it would change.

It could, it, it would be full in one moment and completely empty the next, half full in, in certain times, but still with that uncertainty.

And just being able to go

to have a source of peace that

surpasses all understanding and being able to trust, like, even right now, it feels really hard.

Or, I woke up for me, I really struggle in the mornings.

Um,

So that's why hour by hour is so important to me because

I get really anxious in the morning, which sucks to wake up that way.

And so it is so important

for me

to know that there's hope for the next hour once I've dug into my Bible or I've listened to worship or just connected with something outside of my own strength, that that source is going to give me internal strength to be better.

And you know, there might be something in the next few hours that then, you know, out of my control, or maybe me making a mishap that then will make me have to go back to my creator, go back to God to be able to feel up again, too.

So, it is,

I wish everyone could feel what it feels like

to just have even a glimpse of heaven and feel that

spirit around you.

And it's like that's when you truly feel so loved in a way that

I don't think there's no relationship here on earth that can make you feel that way.

You can have a beautiful relationship with your children and your spouse, but there is nothing like being in the presence of the one that created you

to

fuel you to move on to the next moment, to the next step.

And so, yeah, it's my true north.

And sometimes I forget about it.

Um, I'm not saying that it's like the first thing that I always go to.

Yeah.

We can search the world for like

for it because there's things that are really good

copycats

that can feel good in a moment, but don't just like change you from the inside.

And

I'm so thankful for that in my life.

I'm like crying.

We're a few minutes in crying.

I just did my first ever podcast interview with Megan, Duchess of Sussex, where we did no makeup.

And I'm thinking, I'm sitting here with you right now.

I'm like, I should do this.

I think we should make that.

I just do no makeup because I'm already crying my makeup off.

That is so beautiful.

I had no plans of even going

there.

And it was so beautiful, Hannah, because what you shared is going to matter so much to so many people.

And I

just want to share.

I wasn't even planning on talking about this, but

most of my life, I believed the lies that the other things would fill that love, you know, and I worked so hard for whatever it was, career success or the shiny things on the outside or whatever.

And they never, it never felt like it was enough.

And so many people, not that ambition's wrong or going after those things, that's all great, but they don't feel the enoughness inside of us.

they don't feel that.

They feel, they, they create confidence on the outside, but they don't feel that deep sense of enoughness.

And, you know, I'm not here to say there's only one way to do it.

And I'm definitely not here to convert anybody, but I do speak my truth.

And for me, tapping into knowing, okay, all right, God, you're the one who brought me to this room.

I must have what it takes to walk into this room.

You're the one that, you know, opened this door.

You know, I must have what it takes to walk through it, even though I don't, in my own self, I don't feel enough but if you open this door for me and similarly like a door closes and it's so painful and I want it so bad I'm like, all right, God, you're blocking my value from someone.

They're not assigned to my destiny.

And that is my source of strength often on an hourly basis.

And I just want to keep this so real with everyone listening because I get so many emails and DMs and questions like, you know, how did you do this thing?

I want to build a billion dollar company or how did you, you know, I'm sure when I just just got the the when I just had so much fun reading just the smallest part of your bio Hannah there's so I could have I could have read an hour-long bio for you intro

but you know when someone sees you from the outside and you know um and just loves you on the bachelorette or or or you know

oh my gosh, you've crushed it on so many shows.

And also you're such a badass.

Like seriously,

there's such a just a grit inside it's funny that if i was ever on a desert island and like i just needed to survive i would want you there with me because whoever tried to take us down it would not happen on your watch figure we would figure something out

you are um a force um but also like people might be like oh you know you know hannah you know miss alabama usa this that now brand new opportunity i'm so excited i'm going to talk to you about it in a second um as well on on bachelor Bachelor in Paradise coming up.

You know, two times soon, three time best-selling author.

You know, all of it just looks perfect or maybe even easy on the outside.

And while those things are all great,

they don't fill that piece of self-love that can, that's like such an internal job,

an inside job.

And I just love so much that thank you for being so honest.

I think a lot of people are going to have an aha moment right now.

I've had to learn it the hard way.

I think probably,

like you alluded to, sometimes when

you get that moment, when you have the dream come true,

it can be a little jarring when you're like, oh, wait, I was supposed to feel something different.

The biggest moment that I had with that was when I did win Dancing with the Stars.

I had gone straight from bachelor, bachelorette, dancing with the stars.

And like my life changed overnight.

I lived in a small town of Alabama, like hadn't lived more than 15 minutes away from my parents' home where I grew up.

And then it was,

I had all these amazing opportunities, and yet I

was so lost and felt so lonely.

But everybody loved me, and everybody thought I was killing it.

And I was showing up week after week on live television and getting through these performances, but

I just felt like I had to win to prove that everything that I had done had been worth it.

So I was just like, I have to win this show.

And I did.

And when I went to hold up that mirror ball,

it was way lighter than I thought it was going to be.

And I remember

going

back home after the whole show because it was like during the holidays and I went home for Thanksgiving and I wrote in my journal I was like I'm just having the weirdest feeling I've I feel so empty like it was like the way I thought that this trophy in this moment was gonna feel like

so big and instead it felt so light

and it actually carried no weight

and

at the time I hadn't quite learned what I've learned now I just needed to find I was just hoping I'd find something else that I could focus on, you know.

I was just like, oh, gosh, this is scary.

I don't want to feel this anymore.

So let me find something else to distract myself with.

Until, you know, I think during COVID for a lot of people, but especially, I know for me,

mental health started to become more of something that I couldn't ignore anymore, you know?

And I think it really, one of the moments that I can really relate it back to was.

was: we need to pause for a super brief break.

And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire.

Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy.

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And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

Mental health started to become more of something that I couldn't ignore anymore, you know.

And I think it really, one of the moments that I can really relate it back to was

winning the thing I wanted and then realizing it just

felt

like nothing.

And

that was hard because I shut out a lot of people in my life.

I had one task at hand and I put everything into it, which I think is wonderful.

I'm so glad that I have that gift that I can, when I decide I'm going to do something,

I can go all in, but it's not worth the cost of losing community, of not being able to have those people in your life who can speak life into you, who can be there for you.

If you have to do that,

and

if you have to do that to be able to win or do the thing, then it's probably not worth it

in the end.

Or you're going to have to do a lot of repairing, I think, along the way.

And that's what I had to do.

I'm so thankful.

It was so awesome to have so many people.

When I even look back at the experience of dancing with stars, to know that many people called in and voted and cheered, cheered me on and were just a part of that

does not

make that any less special for me.

Like, I look back and I'm like, that was so cool.

I got to do that.

And it really was one of the first moments of, okay,

it doesn't matter how big the trophy is or how big the check is signed.

Like,

if you don't love yourself or you don't have

something that is anchoring you,

you're never going to feel the way that you think you are.

No matter how hard you work for,

you know,

the win, it's not going to feel the way you want it to be.

That is so true.

And I think the trophy for, you know, so many people is all different things.

I think there's so many people who are like, oh, once I have the kids, then I'm going to feel, you know, completely fulfilled.

And then they have kids or they get married or they have the white picket fence or they hit the goal weight.

Yeah.

And you get to the goal weight and all of a sudden those pants from high school fit and then you're like but why why don't i feel what i thought i was gonna feel and it's because it's i i think we've all gone through that and i think i mean for me oh my gosh it was not that long ago hannah i am 47 and it was not that long ago three or four years ago where I finally realized this where I was like oh my gosh my whole life I've been chasing enoughness through the trophy whether it's the size I am or the you know whatever

the achievement is inside the business or whatever it might be, whatever it might be.

And why every time do I arrive at it, do I feel

not what I thought I was going to feel?

So that's wild.

So you're holding the Miraball trophy.

And I just, I remember being, I mean, I can

put myself there in my mind and I can remember being like,

oh, this was supposed to be what all the hard work was for.

And this was supposed to be the moment that everything felt better.

And

it didn't.

It didn't.

And yeah, and there my

took a little bit longer than I'd like for the journey to begin after that.

But that was the moment that I did.

I have like my journal entry of being like, hmm,

I'm going to have to learn something from this, I think.

I'm going to have to change.

And

I have, I have, but man, it's been hard.

And it's an hour by hour day thing.

Like even today to be like very transparent, I woke up and I'd had a really hard

anxious time.

That has been something I don't like to say.

I have anxiety, but I do struggle with that.

And it can be sometimes like really

frustrating because I feel like, oh, shouldn't I be healed by now?

Shouldn't I have done all this work, you know?

And I'm so glad, but it still comes.

And I just had to have that moment of like,

sometimes I don't have,

I don't have all the strength on my own.

And so just being able, whatever that is for you,

to just sit with that, like,

You don't have to have all the pressure.

I think that's what I love about being connected to something bigger bigger than me is that sometimes the pressure and the anxiety can feel so much.

And going back to what you said about,

you know, if a door opens or a door closes, to like know that the pressure and the control is not all up to you.

And to be like, oh gosh, even if I'm having this anxious moment now, like I trust

that

There is hope that I know that it's going to get better.

It can't just stay like this.

And guess what?

It has.

I've been here.

I've had the best time.

I've felt such

a presence of peace around me.

But it was just that moment of surrender of knowing that

it all passes

and

knowing that I don't have to muscle up and

do it all on my own.

It takes community.

I reached out to people in my life to say, hey, I need your prayers.

Be thinking of me.

I woke up not the way I wanted to wake up.

Can you be praying for me, thinking of me?

And then having my own moment of just being like,

I got to let this go.

This is such a, I have so much to be grateful for.

I'm getting to have a wonderful conversation with a human that I am so inspired by.

And

I have a lot that I can offer to people.

And just to

believe that,

maybe not in that moment, moment, but to choose that I am going to believe that and that I'm going to moment by moment, hour by hour, make choices that are going to make that belief become more true in my life.

One of my favorite quotes is: choices lead, feelings follow.

Because a lot of times our feelings,

if I just sat in the anxiety that I woke up in this morning, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you the way that we're being able to have it right now.

But I did the things that that I knew

were, and I made the choices that I knew would help me to

step into the feeling and the position that I wanted to be when I walked in the store.

But I'm not going to hide that I came from

a feeling that was hard because that's the victory.

That's the victory of making choices to know that I don't have to let my feelings and moments control my life.

And I've,

and that feels really good when I can feel like, man, I did the things in the toolbook of all the years of therapy and prayer, and I made the conscious choice to step out and be like, I can, there can be change.

I can feel different.

That's like my favorite thing that I try to live my life by.

I'm not always the best at it, but like it is, it is the thing that when I remind myself, choices lead, feelings follow.

I'm telling you, every time I get in a better state of emotion

because I clock it and I'm like, the person that I want to be,

what would they do in this moment?

Not the person that I'm in the way that I feel right now, but the person that I want to be and that I know that I am, what would they do?

They would reach out, they would call someone,

they would take a moment to meditate, to pray, to be in the presence of the Creator.

And I did that, and

here I am.

Do you know how many people that you're going to help right now?

I am, I'm just sitting here, first of all, like first, just seeing this light from your eyes, like this, like sparkle in this light.

Do you think that's the Holy Spirit?

I do.

Oh, gosh, it's so emotional.

Yeah, I do.

I do.

I so believe that because

if it was just me

and the state that I woke up in, I don't don't think I could be here being so sure

that you can change, that you can feel better,

that I'm not crying tears of like, oh gosh, I'm so emotional right now because I feel like I'm out of control.

It's like I'm crying tears of like gratitude.

Like victory.

And a victory.

You know, I am.

Listening to how

beautifully you just shared almost exactly what you go through and then what you do, how you respond to it on like a step-by-step basis.

I'm just thinking that, of course,

I never wish anxiety on anybody ever.

I know what it feels like.

For me, it's different for everybody.

Never wish on anybody.

And also,

You are such a phenomenally anointed communicator, right?

I think it's why, was it whatever the number, four and a half million people like go to you on social to just because you're able to connect with people in such a really beautiful way.

And

what a gift that you are sharing all the parts of you so that people can feel less alone and more enough and that you're able to use one of the many gifts you have of communication to be able to so

intimately but also

impactfully share

how you woke up, how you feel.

Do you know how many people listening or watching right now

are going to say, that's how I woke up this morning.

And then they're going to understand how did you then

go step by step into getting to how you wanted to feel and you know choices lead, feelings follow.

I've never heard that before.

That is so beautiful.

I guarantee you so many people are going to are gonna write that down and they're gonna put it on a sticky note and they're gonna read it every single day.

That is so beautiful.

And I just, you know, want to say

thank you for using the things you've gone through, the things you have made it through to help other people make it through those things.

And, you know,

there's so many of us that feel like, oh,

I feel that too, but I hide it.

I don't tell anybody.

I don't want, what if somebody judges me?

What if somebody thinks differently about me?

What if my partner doesn't think?

What if my kids?

What if my, you know, mother-in-law?

What if my

how has your journey been to getting to this place where you feel confident, worthy enough, whatever the words are for you, to say, I'm going to share this with everyone else who also might be feeling the same thing?

Yeah.

Well, look, I wouldn't choose it.

I wouldn't choose to struggle with moments of anxiety, depression.

Like, it's not fun.

I just want to first say, like, like you said, we all experience differently.

It never feels good.

Yeah.

But

it feels better

to

stand against it.

I actually have like a whole,

which I have a wonderful therapist that helped with.

I have a whole toolbox of, okay, what are the things that are going to make me feel better in these moments?

So I think having support

and having the tools to be able to know, okay, when you are so open with, okay, this is what I'm going through right now,

there is a way through.

And I think for so long, I struggled, but didn't even know that it was anxiety that I was struggling with

for years and years.

I grew up in the deep south, which roll-tied,

but

there wasn't much talk about mental health.

And I really

suffered

in silence, but I was really good at hiding it because I was such an achiever and knew how to distract myself.

And I could always say I was stressed because I always had something going on.

And so,

yeah, I think I even, I can remember going to school as a little girl and being so nauseous and sick to just like go to school.

I mean, I really struggled with

anxiety for most of my life, but not knowing what it was.

And

unfortunately, or fortunately,

it got to where it was affecting my life in a way that I was like, okay,

I need help.

I need help.

And it it took a while to get.

I also want to have compassion for it's sometimes hard to find the right help out there.

It's, I'm so fortunate that I can

go to therapy and I have the means to be able to do that

and have found it, have found a therapist that really does help me and cares about me.

That has been my

just like saving grace in just being able to have the tools.

And so I think why I want to share is because not everybody has that.

Yes.

And

it does suck to feel it.

So if I can be someone to say, hey,

I know how you feel right now and

try one of these things to see if it works for you.

Yeah, I just feel like it's important when you find something

um, to be able to share it because I don't know if I wouldn't have had the opportunities that I had now.

Who knows if I would ever have been able to afford or had access to a good therapist.

Yeah, I love that you shared that because exactly therapy can definitely be a privilege.

Um, and even with that, it can be really hard to find the right therapist.

So, for everyone listening, if you have tried it and you're like, it didn't nothing from me, keep trying, keep trying, keep trying, keep trying.

I know I've, I, I've been to different therapists where I'm like, they're lovely.

Of course.

And also,

I don't feel that like, oh, this is exactly where I need to be right now.

This is who I'm supposed to be.

And then my therapist right now, holy moly,

smartest person, smartest woman I've ever met.

And I'm just like, like life-changing.

So yeah, thank you for calling that out.

And

I have a lot of questions actually

about

so many things.

I'm so excited that you're here.

One thing that I want to dive into the four engagement rings of Sybil Rain, your new book, which everyone needs to go pick up right now.

I love escaping like vicariously through other stories.

I love,

you know, even it's like

my husband's so funny.

He's like, why do you watch, you know, whatever show it might be, Bachelor in Paradise?

And I think part of the fun of it is I just get to escape and whatever's going on there.

And I think a great story.

Oh my gosh, a great story, great storytelling.

Congratulations on being a multiple New York Times best-selling author.

Thank you.

And on your third book.

So before we dive into your new book that I want everyone to grab right now, I do want to ask you about going, about your new role on

Bachelor in Paradise.

Can you share?

This is big news.

And I'm so excited to watch and to tune in.

And I have a gift actually I'm going to give you that's one of my favorite things on the planet that will, that you could take with you, I think.

It'll be when you're when you're alone and no one's around.

It's great.

But what for you, can you share with everybody

what this new role is and what we have to look forward to this summer?

Yes, so I am headed to the beach and I was on the Bachelor or Bachelorette.

I've never experienced Bachelor in Paradise.

I've gone and like hosted a date once or twice.

I can't fully remember, but now they're completely changing the show.

They are taking the show to Costa Rica, and I am

kind of in for the surprise just as much as everyone else.

I got the call

kind of out of the blue for this opportunity.

And, you know, I'm always so fortunate for the bachelor franchise because it's given me all these opportunities to be able to speak about the things that I'm super passionate about and have a community of people who

I can pour into and they can pour into me.

And so I'm so thankful for that.

But

there was a time that I needed some separation.

So it was cool when I got the opportunity.

I had to take a moment to be like, how does this feel?

And for me,

going on to this speech, I am going to be the paradise relations,

let's say.

I'm I'm making sure we have the good vibes, that there's somebody there that can

listen if there's some

real questions about how to do relationships, how to start a relationship, what not to do.

I have plenty of that advice as well.

And, you know, if somebody needs a glass of champagne, I can pop the bubbly for that too, whether we're celebrating or,

you know, just having a drink to,

you know, end the day and hope for a better tomorrow but I really feel like this opportunity for me feels like a true

redemption and restoration because the show for me bachelor bachelorette

didn't go the way that I expected it to go

and while it opened my eyes in so many beautiful ways and made my world bigger and I got to experience so much in relationship and love, It also had a lot of heartbreak for me.

And it was hard navigating real life experiences for the world to see.

And that I can go on there

as someone who has, you know, been in a similar experience and situation.

And it's felt a lot of the feelings that come along with putting yourself out there and either being rejected or it not going as planned to be able to like speak life into people and also have fun.

It's always about having fun.

It just feels like a full circle moment that I'm really honored to be able to do because I do feel like I have a lot more wisdom than I did then when I was participating that I would love, I wish I would have had somebody who truly, I felt,

you know, was there to pour into me.

And so that's what I'm really excited about.

Whether that's just helping set up a date for somebody to have a special moment with someone or be there when they're feeling heartbreak.

Like I am so excited to have the opportunity.

And it just feels really cool how things all work together.

You're going to crush it.

You're going to be so good.

I remember one of the moments you went on to paradise.

And all I remember is every one of the guys was so excited that like, and then, and then when they realized you're not going on, like you're already in like you're not looking for love you're you're then they were just like all deflated

and i remember that i remember the reaction um

it was so strong and i have to tell you i i think

i think one of the most

beautiful i think i i i remember you on the bachelor and you were just so you

and it was so

i think i think what i know beyond a shadow of a doubt is people cannot fake authenticity And you are so you, fully you, and people connect to that at such a deep level.

And Bachelor fans,

Bachelor Nation is loyal

and very, very all-in.

And I think people really connected to that.

I have to tell you personally,

one of my all-time favorite moments, maybe ever.

Yes, ever, on any season I've ever seen on any one of their shows, is when you said

there was some guy, I don't know his name, that was like, like, you know, very, very religious and was judging you for something.

And I remember when you said, yes, I've had sex in the windmill and Jesus still loves me on the show.

And that moment, I was like, hallelujah, at home, because, Hannah, I feel like we're in this moment in time where so many people

maybe want faith in their life, but they feel like they've made some kind of a decision that disqualifies them or who they are, who they are is not worthy of prayer or this one thing they did five years ago or this one whatever it might be like they feel judged and so they almost like disqualify themselves from faith when you said those words i felt like Number one, it's why I think everyone has fallen in love with you because you help everyone else feel seen.

And I think you sharing those kind of things is so beautiful.

So thinking about you going on to paradise, I get so excited because you have gone on the bachelor.

So you've been in that role where, you know, you're a contestant, but then you've been the bachelorette.

So you've been calling the shots, you've been in that role.

And it's like you've been in all.

So every person walking on to that set, you're going to know what it's like to have gone through their shoes, to have been in their shoes.

And also, you know, I don't know.

Listen, I've never gone on that show, but I would imagine I did Big Brother like, gosh, 27 years ago, season one.

I didn't even know.

No way.

Yeah, I didn't even know what it was.

I was in college and reality shows weren't a thing yet.

There was the real world on MTV.

That was it.

And there was not this era of reality shows.

And there was these posters all over my college campus at Wazoo, Washington State University,

where they were looking for contestants for Big Brother.

And no one knew what that was.

And Survivor, I think.

And no one knew what that was.

And it was like a show in Europe that was gonna come to the US or whatever so a bunch of my girlfriends and I were like oh well you know we just sent in a tape and before I knew it it was like multiple rounds of auditions and

and

it got down to like I can't remember the top thousand people or something and we went to California did these interviews and then it was like the final 75 and then and then I got cast as one of the 10 people

No idea what I was walking into, like no idea.

And I knew I'd be locked in this house.

And at that time, there was not really a lot of social media,

but we were live streamed 24-7 on AOL.

So crazy.

Is that crazy?

And it was broadcast six nights a week, prime time on CBS,

which at the time, you know, there wasn't that many television channels.

So it was like a thing.

And

I lived in that high, and then the American public that year called in and kicked people off every week.

That's how it worked.

And so I was there the whole three months.

I got kicked off the day before the finale.

And it was

three months.

Three months.

We were locked in the big brother house.

Yeah.

That like

blows my mind.

Yeah.

And it was airing six nights a week.

There was like 70-something cameras in the house.

And we didn't know what was airing.

We're locked.

We have no technology.

We have no phones.

No, nothing.

So we're just in this.

situation not knowing what's even happening, not knowing what's going.

And so I remember, and you know, I was this broke college student student walking in and

normally when people you know have different types of fame they can monetize it or they have maybe they've built an acting career over decades or whatever it might be i remember walking out and i was like holy moly like it was wild every single contestant had thousands and thousands of fan sites and hate sites and all of it And you walk out, you still have gotten no money.

And then you all of a sudden have stalkers.

You have people showing up.

I see you not, it's like your whole world changes.

And none of my family was used to this, and they're seeing just stuff everywhere.

And it was the most wild experience that no one could have prepared for that.

You cannot prepare for that, you can't prepare for it.

And so, anyhow, it's funny.

I look back and I've definitely lost my inhibitions because, you know, there, I mean, there's a in there's you're so tired and tired

being on camera all day.

Yeah, it's really hard to be your best self.

The highest level of emotion.

And I remember my year, there was cameras everywhere, even the shower.

And then the only place in the whole house there was no camera was the

toilet room.

But there was a hanging microphone.

And so.

Yes, from the ceiling.

And I was like, and I was, I'm so, I'm such a private person anyway.

And so, you know, you share bedrooms, all the things.

And so the blessing for me was I walked out just so much more uninhibited um and also it was really hard emotionally and so you know

i can only imagine everything that you have gone through and continue to go through to be able to really just put yourself out there in such a way but what a beautiful gift you're going to be to every contestant on bachelor in paradise because you're going to understand better than anybody just emotionally what they're going to go through and like the support they're going to need for sure i'm so excited about it i love that you said that about your experience with big brother because people ask me all the time about the different shows I've been on.

And I went into Bachelor.

Please don't go back and watch my season.

But like, I have the first date of

the show

during my season.

And I was still trying to be how I had to be my whole life.

I felt like I had to achieve, be buttoned up.

And then I got on that show and realized that wasn't going to work

because, or I didn't know how it was going to make it work because I had nowhere to

go.

I don't know.

I think a lot of times I felt like I had to perform growing up and I didn't feel super safe in a way.

And maybe not the best place to start, you know, having these big ahas because it wasn't fully safe.

But I do feel like it did make me drop my guard

because I had to realize, like, if I'm going to like fall in love, like one of the biggest,

most vulnerable things that you do in your life, I can't, I can't act.

I can't like be just like half of myself.

And so being on bachelor was one of the best experiences of my life, even though it was one of the hardest.

Because

we need to pause for a super brief break.

And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire.

Because this conversation can truly be the the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough more connected and more worthy who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief and i'd love to hang out with you even more especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration which is exactly why i've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me.

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And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

Being on Bachelor was one of the best experiences of my life, even though it was one of the hardest, because

it's really like people were watching me really start to become my true self as I was like experiencing it for the first time.

Like, actually saying what I thought for the first time and questioning things and being asked

for for the first time in my life, like, how do I feel?

Like, I didn't have a lot of that that wasn't really part of my family dynamic of like, how do you really feel in this moment?

Or, you know, how was your day truly?

And that was the first time that I really was experiencing that.

Like, what, what that girl said, how did that make you feel?

And being like, I didn't really like that.

You know, I don't agree.

And, and having that was such a cool experience for me.

So I love that you also felt in a way because you couldn't escape the

all the camera that you kind of were able to

just have to let go of some things.

Yeah.

You really don't have a choice.

I love that.

Yeah.

I remember watching you on the show and just feeling like, yeah, she's like, and it hadn't always been that way.

I didn't know that.

I had my friends were like, that was totally you,

but like,

you fully being you.

And I didn't always go about my life that way way until being on the show.

Amazing.

So I'll always be grateful for that as well.

And that is probably why people fell in love with you because for most people, it's the opposite.

They go on something and they just like turn into their representative or whatever and people just disconnect.

I think I just had this like aha moment of like,

gosh, if I actually want this to work, which I was so pure about my intentions about going on the show.

I really was.

And so I was like, okay, if I'm going to meet this person that I'm going to, they need to meet the real me and I'm going to do some things different.

And I did.

And then, yeah, I think the world got to actually like see that, which was really cool.

Yeah.

Okay.

Tell us, tell us about the four engagement rings of Sybil Rain.

Your new book out now.

Everyone needs to go grab their coffee.

Okay, tell us all about it.

I am so excited for people to read this book.

So this is my second romance novel.

My first book came out last year, Mistakes We Never Made.

And, you know, it was interesting with the, with the first book, I was really nervous because I was doing something new.

It was a true dream come true for me.

A lot of the things that I've gotten to do, I couldn't have dreamt of having the opportunity.

But writing a book has always been something, a novel.

Writing a novel was always something that I wanted to do as a, you know, like a teenager.

I remember telling my mom that that was something that I wanted to be able to do because I've always loved reading.

It has truly been my escape when when sometimes I didn't know how to deal with my own emotions.

And so

the first book was hard because it was like, okay, are people going to follow me on this journey?

Are they going to, you know, see this passion?

And it was so cool to be able to

do it scared and have people

really go along with this journey and love the book.

And

it was amazing.

And it kind of just,

I would never say it was not easy, but it felt like this more smooth ride with just like a little bit of, you know, nerves.

Writing The Four Engagement Rings of Sybil Rain,

people were so invested in Sybil because Sybil shows up in my first book.

So they're standalone books, but they're written in this, the same universe.

There's a group of

best girlfriends, the Core Four.

And Sybil is a part of that and was kind of a key character in the last, the first book.

And that's the mistakes.

Mistakes we never made.

So New York Times best

book.

If you have not picked that up, please do.

Yes.

And

so I would be on book tour for Mistakes We Never Made.

And people would be like, I love the book, but I have to know

what happened to Sybil.

I need to know Sybil's story.

And so

I knew my...

idea was from the beginning to write about these four girls and their friendship because I truly believe community

best girlfriends in your life is one of the most beautiful love stories you can have because they're there through it all.

The heartbreaks,

the first moments when you're like, wait, I kind of like this guy when you fall in love.

Like they're such an integral part of that.

And so that was the idea of

the whole universe.

And so to have people like coming for the first book and then like asking about another character was like, oh my gosh, okay, like I can, I should do this, I should keep going.

And with that, did come a little bit, even like more responsibility because I wanted to get it right because people already knew her and loved her and wanted to know.

So,

just like the starting with the feelings and the emotions going into writing the book,

I definitely felt like it was a little bit of a challenge, but I'm so proud of the book that people are going to have their hands on very soon.

The story is about Sybil Rain, who was a runaway bride.

She

had a wedding weekend gone bad where

she

just ended up leaving the scene.

And you don't really get answers to that much in mistakes you never made.

But picking up in this book is a year later, after

a hard year, challenging year, she finally goes on a vacation, a much deserved vacation.

And unfortunately, unfortunately, she gets there and does not run into not one, but two exes on the beach.

So think forgetting Sarah Marshall Vibes, which is one of my favorite movies.

So it's chaotic and it's so fun.

But the base of the book that I hope people feel

is about self-love.

Sybil has to go on a journey of self-love to be able to reconcile the past, hence the four engagement rings, the Sybil Ring.

There's a story there.

And she has to reconcile her past so that she can truly step into the future and love that she deserves.

And I really did draw a lot of inspiration of where I've been in my own journey through Sybil, of what I've had to learn about

when you don't love yourself or you haven't, you've created beliefs about yourself that are limiting

how that doesn't allow you to show up the way that you want to.

And there will be a moment, whether it's when you're going down the aisle or when you're there for that job interview, where if you don't do the work to be able to confront your past, it's going to sneak up on you at some point and you're going to,

you know, maybe miss a moment that could have been beautiful.

But there's also redemption in there too, that she's able to like go on that journey

and find love.

And it was so fun to write.

It was really challenging because Sybil is messy.

I love her so much.

She's all the parts of me that are fun, but also can create the most chaos.

And it was interesting trying to write a character that is that way where she doesn't come off selfish or insensitive, but that you just like

love her, but you also are rooting for her to like get to the source of where all that comes from.

So she definitely stretched me as a writer, but I think you can see that in the writing too.

I'm really proud of the book and I'm so excited for people to read it because I think it's a good balance, especially people who are obviously listening to this podcast.

Like they want to grow in some way.

And I think our time is so valuable.

And while I love a good escape, I always want people

whenever I put something out on the world, that they feel like they can just get a little bit from that character where they see themselves in that character and are rooting for them because they're rooting for

their selves too.

So everything that I do, even when it's fun and light and sexy and an easy beach read, I still want there to be some like goodness and truth in there.

So I hope that people feel that and they get the best of both worlds while reading this book.

Yeah.

Well, I'm so excited for everyone to get it in their hands.

And

I know everyone's asking you, what parts of of you are in Sybil and all that.

So I think it's, I think it's, what I think though is that every single reader is going to see themselves in Sybil.

That is my hope because we all have universal emotions and feelings that we have.

And it might not be, like I said,

you know, at your

the altar of your wedding when you realize, I don't know.

what's going on here.

But it can be in so many moments where we doubt ourselves and believe things to be true about ourselves that are not at all and we have to go on the journey to breaking those chains so that we can love ourselves yeah so many people want to write a book or they have a story to tell maybe it's their own or they have an idea for a book what was what's your process like as a writer and and when you when you write these stories i know your first book is it god bless this much yes yeah um

which is more of your story your journey and

writing romance novels.

What's your process?

Yeah.

Well,

very different from the first book.

The first book, I knew all the plot points.

I loved them.

And

it was more vulnerable to know that like some of these things that

at the time I had just started processing a lot of my childhood.

And I mean, man, if I could even write the another book now, I'm sure that I have different perspective or

even more growth than than I did then.

So it was really cathartic and

a very different process.

Writing a romance novel is a very creative process

and

I loved it.

But there's a lot of organization and structure that goes into writing a romance novel.

And I

had this idea, but I'm so glad for the help and the support that I have.

I have an amazing co-author, Emily Larrabee, who has been writing romance novels for years.

And so she really encouraged me first that I had a gift and that

those passions there were something that I could fulfill and do.

But I also have someone who

knows how to structure and plot a book in a way that I didn't at the time.

So it's been really great to be able to have a collaborative experience with this book.

I am so thankful for

the encouragement.

So it looks different than even maybe some other people's because there's two people writing a book.

So it's a lot of plotting at first.

There's like different ways that people write novels, but it's a full thought out process

at first before we even get into writing the chapters.

And then

we start going and because it's two of us, there's a lot of back and forth of, especially with Sybil um Emily really couldn't relate to Sybil at all and so it was really on me to get her character right I've got this and I'm like well let me roll up my sleeves because I'm gonna and and at first she was like I don't know I just don't understand her so that was like really my

my big role in this which is probably great which is great yeah because you want you I'm sure by the end she really got her she did and she fell in love with her even more you know so I was like yeah now you get her so yeah it's a very collaborative experience it takes a long time it takes a lot of work

but having the support has been amazing and I think it makes it an even better book than it than just you know we're

I think it's important to give credit to the people who support us and support our dreams.

And it's made it a better book with two brains and amazing publisher and editor that have just been along on this ride and been such an integral part of that.

So I always want to give praise to how they

made this book a reality for me because sometimes there are moments I didn't have the courage or would get stuck.

But

do you ever, in your process of writing, and I'm asking this because this happened to me with Worthy, also with Believe It, will you ever, like, are you ever out and about doing something totally different or you're working out or you're grabbing a coffee and you're like, oh, Sybil has got to do this.

And you just

note.

Yes.

You know, when the voice note comes out and I'm like, okay, this isn't going to really make sense.

Or I'm like quiet somewhere and I'm having to like whisper out all these.

And then, you know,

half of it's really good.

And then I just start rambling and it's like a seven minute voice note to myself.

But yeah, absolutely.

Isn't that fun?

Yeah.

It just keeps cutting like and then do you ever have those moments as a creator?

And I share this because I think of the person at home also

who's like, how do I get started?

What do I do?

I know for me, I had an agent approach me at an event I did actually at Lakewood Church with Victoria Osteen five years before, believe it.

And

said, would you write a book?

And at the time, I was doing 100-hour weeks.

And I was like, well, you know, I know that I'm not ready yet, you know, but I'll call you when I am.

But in that five-year window, I'd have all these ideas start to hit me.

And then I would just, you know, I would put them in notes, which is not that safe.

But I would like, even I'd start these files and just random thoughts, random thoughts.

And I would just save these word docs.

And then I remember when I knew, oh, it's time.

And

I went into,

we were remodeling our place and we bought a little beach house.

I sat in there.

I remember binge eating Lucky Charms and like sobbing for like two weeks straight.

And I wrote, I just, I mean, and I went through all my document and like, it was something like 80,000 words poured out.

And I was the first time author.

So I thought, oh, it's done.

I didn't realize there's another year and a half of editing.

Oh, yeah.

There's another, like the process, right, of doing the proposal and then getting the book deal and getting, you know, and, and I actually went back to the same agent that was the very first one to ever come up to me.

Miller.

Yeah.

And I was like, you believed in me first, so let's go.

And

they're lovely.

And anyways, I think my favorite part is when you have those moments where you're like, oh, that idea.

And then you like, and, you know half the time it's at least for me it would end up be crap and not even making it in the book, but it's just like the moments.

That's what I wanted to say like

for listeners

I think you have to start speaking it out into existence.

Like if what if I had ever said sitting on my kitchen counter with my mom like you know, I don't know when I'm ever going to do this, but I'd really like to

to write a novel one day.

And the first time I got an agent, I mean,

the first thing they asked, like, what do you want to do?

I was like, I'd really like to write a book.

Because I didn't, like, that has always been the thing that I said.

And

I know that I'm privileged and I've had some amazing doors open for me.

But I think people ask you what you want to do, say it.

And you might not be ready at this moment.

Like, even you saying, I'm not ready yet, but it's something that you know I want to do.

Speaking out aloud, and also

just start.

It could be crap the first time.

A lot of times it is.

But if you never start,

then

it'll never be.

And you won't have this moment that I know you've experienced.

And I've experienced where I truly say this is my first dream come true.

Yes.

And that's so cool.

And yeah, when it started, if I didn't have people in my corner, yeah, it was not that good.

I didn't, I don't know how to do something that I've never done before, but you got to start got to start.

I am having this moment.

I'm just going to say it.

I want everyone to pause this podcast, whether you're watching it on YouTube or listening to audio, pause and just write the first word of your book right now.

Just like write it, like anywhere.

Yes.

And you've started.

You've started.

You've started.

And it's, you know,

there is one of my good friends, Pastor Erwin McManus, once said this to me.

He said, Writer's block is nothing more than editing yourself before you create.

Oh,

oh, that's so good because we write something, then we think, oh, that's crap, or whatever.

And I was like, oh, and when he said that to me, I was like, you know what?

That's so good.

And I love what you said.

It's like, just, just like, get it all out.

Just start.

Just let it, you know, don't judge yourself yet.

Don't edit yourself before you create.

Just like get it all out.

No one ever has to see it.

You, you know, you get to make all the decisions.

But just starting is so beautiful.

And I love what you said said about declaring it.

Like you told your mom, how old were you when you?

I can't remember if it was like one of my first years of college or in high school.

It was, I was really young.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And just declaring it, like, this is something that I want to do one day.

And I'm going to write a novel.

Do you remember?

Well, my,

I told her kind of what the novel was going to be about because it was,

and maybe one day I'll do it.

I had an idea, and I still have it in my, I still have it in my back pocket, but it kind of was off my grandmother's story.

And she was like, well, that'll be an interesting one.

So yeah,

she's so proud of me because, you know, I've made it happen.

And

yeah, she's always believed that

I could do all the things.

Well, from the four engagement rings of Sybil Rain, which is out now, everyone needs to go grab the copy right now in this moment as you're listening, as you're watching, you can pause this, go right over to Amazon, go to your favorite independent bookstore.

Right now, you can grab your copy of the four engagement rings of Sybil Rain, which I'm so excited for you to do that.

This conversation with Hannah Brown is so incredible.

We made it into more than one part.

And if you are ready to embrace your own journey of self-love and learn to feel truly beautiful on the inside and the outside, even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time time in a long time.

You are not gonna wanna miss this incredible part two of our conversation with Hannah Brown coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Remember, this episode's not just for you and me.

Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life too.

And if you love today's episode, please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on your app you're listening to it on or watching it on.

And if it added value to your life, if you could please give it a rating or review, I'd be so grateful.

And again, please share it with everyone you believe in.

Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it.

Maybe it's someone you know who needs to truly believe in themselves and build their own self-love.

And please post the episode and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today.

You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode.

And thank you so much for joining me today.

Before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true.

You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy.

You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world.

And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Here, I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here.

You are worthy.

You are loved.

You are love.

I love you.

And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.

You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth.

When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.

And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you.

If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you.

In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.

Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth.

Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.

Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you.

It's time to find out with Worthy.

Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief.

And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me.

If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to to believe in you.

If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.

Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes.

And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.