Melinda French Gates Reveals All: Life-Changing Lessons on Transitions, Trusting Your Inner Voice & Choosing Yourself! (Even if it’s for the first time ever or the first time in a long time!)

I felt like I needed to be kind of dressed head to toe and look perfect all the time.

Now, like, I'm perfectly comfortable going out, maybe too comfortable some days with, you know, not having washed my hair for four days and it's in a ponytail and I'm still gonna go out and walk to the store, you know, and I am who I am.

Melinda French Gates, named by Forbes as one of the most powerful women in the world, is here today

and she is revealing all.

Life-changing lessons on how to hear your own inner voice.

I had a boyfriend in college that really was not a positive relationship for me at all.

And he cared a lot about how I looked and said a lot of things about it to me.

And that really is not okay.

It really is not.

And I eventually obviously got out of that relationship, but it took me too long and I inculcated too many of those messages.

Boy, when you take that down, that perfectionism around weight and body image, you want to talk about you take that down,

you have so much more mind space.

Yes.

It's an anxiety that's in there, right?

I had to work with several different nutritionists and I did some work in therapy, but God, when I took that down, it was like,

okay, that feels better.

How to trust yourself.

I started to do what I call learn my way back to myself.

Somewhere along the way, I started to lose my voice.

Society tells women, you can't be this, you can't do that, or maybe you're not enough, or somebody speaks over you in a meeting.

Was there any part of you that had stopped using your voice in some way?

For sure.

If I'm also telling my three children back then to

use their voice in the world and to stand up to a bully on the playground and help somebody else, if I'm saying that to them, I realized I needed to be role modeling it it too.

And how to choose yourself.

I have to coach myself, quite honestly.

I don't enjoy big social gatherings.

They drain me, right?

I can have doubt going into those.

And so I actually have to push myself to do it.

I definitely have doubt before I enter, like a big, say you're going into a ballroom and it's 300 people at tables, you know, and I'm like, ah, ah.

Well, if we're ever in the same ballroom,

I'm very happy to hide in the bathroom with you.

Okay, good.

And anytime.

Even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time in a long time.

I deserve to be where I am in life.

Like I've worked really hard to get here and I know myself.

And so I don't, if people don't like me or they don't like what I'm saying, I'm kind of at the point in life where I'm like,

take it or leave it.

Like if I'm not your cup of tea, that's that's okay.

I am so excited for you, for me, for women everywhere right now, because this conversation is just that incredible.

I'm literally jumping out of my chair right now.

Coming up in this incredible episode.

I know some people, I walk in the room, they're like, oh, they instantly think, you know, billionaire.

Well, I don't think of myself that way, but what can I do about that?

That's what they've put on me.

But if I'm my true, open-hearted, authentic self, maybe they'll get a chance to rethink what they think of me right

melinda french gates is a philanthropist businesswoman and global advocate for women and girls she's the founder of pivotal ventures focused on accelerating social progress by removing barriers that hold people back

She also co-founded the Gates Foundation alongside her former husband, Bill Gates.

Melinda's brand new book, The Next Day, Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward is out now.

Make sure you pick up your copy.

Right now, it is so good.

And in the book, Melinda reflects for the first time on the most significant transitions in her life from becoming a parent, she's now a mom of three, to the death of a dear friend, to departing the Gates Foundation, to deciding to end her marriage, something over half of us have gone through.

Just when you're getting uncomfortable, actually lean forward and do the thing that your doubt is kind of telling you not to do, because that's where courage is.

Like it becomes your comfort zone, like, oh, I'm feeling doubt again.

I'm going to actually lean forward.

Melinda, Melinda French game.

How are you?

Can I hug you?

I've been to Debbies many times.

Have you been to Debbies?

Yeah, been a long time.

But when they were little, they loved Debbie's.

Did they really?

Oh, yeah.

The pancakes.

The pancakes?

Yeah.

Everyone's praying it's going to be good.

The amount of time that could have been spent on things that actually matter.

This morning in these white jeans, I was like, I see my cellulite.

And I already know in my soul, Melinda's not going to care.

I was like, free.

I was just free.

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It truly means so much to me and the team that works so hard to bring you this show.

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Please share this with every single person that you know because what you're about to hear can truly impact and change your life and theirs.

Jamie Kern-Lima is her name.

Everybody needs Jamie Kern-Lima in their life.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Jamie, you're so inspiring.

Jamie Kern Lima.

It is such an honor to say, Melinda French Gates, welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima Show.

Thanks for having me, Jamie.

It's fun we can do this.

I am so excited you're here.

And I have to just say, right out of the gate, I've read your book cover to cover.

Thank you.

I am so grateful I got to read it early.

It is so inspiring.

So many of us, we go through transitions, whether we want to or not.

A lot of us are scared of them.

But when I read your book,

I got full body chills and also thinking of this conversation today because I think whether it's through reading the book the next day, which is out right now, everyone go grab your coffee,

or even through this conversation, I think what I'm so excited about is I just know how many women are going to read your book or hear this conversation and decide to believe that they're worthy of trusting themselves, of listening to their own voice, of even kind of considering like, huh, have I lost myself?

Who am I?

And

you know, my first question is really for every girl and every woman,

because you have, you have and you continue to play so many different roles, right?

From whether it's, you know, mom or wife or sister or daughter or boss or world changer.

And in the next day, you talk about

starting to lose yourself and your voice.

And so my first question, this really on behalf of everyone, because we can all relate to this.

We've all gone through this in our own way, shape, or form.

We all play, you know, often so many roles that we're like, wait a minute,

who am I?

And so how did you, how did you find yourself again?

And how did you choose yourself?

I think you're right.

I think a lot of us as women go through this, right?

Where

And I love your word that we have so many different roles.

It's like we have so many different hats and we're changing them all the time.

And I know, at least for me, I felt like I so wanted to have kids and I wanted to work at some point.

And I knew I would step back from work at first and hopefully go back.

I didn't know to what afterwards.

But there's something about when you are a new mom and everything's new and you love it and it's hard.

But then when you step back into work, at least I was always changing hats and I felt like I could never give enough time to any one thing, right?

And so it for me was a process.

And I think it was maybe

around 2010 that I started to do what I call learn my way back to myself.

Like I feel like I really knew myself when I left high school.

I was very lucky to be in an all-girls Catholic high school, so it was very affirming.

But then somewhere along the way, I started to lose my voice as I went out into the world.

And I think because society tells women, you can't be this, you can't do that, or maybe you're not enough, or somebody speaks over you in a meeting, or someone repeats your point.

But in 2010, I started to relearn who I was.

And it was because I was seeing so much in these low-income countries.

And I realized I wanted to give voice to what those women were telling me.

And it took a lot of courage, quite frankly, to voice what these women needed and wanted on the world stage.

But the more I started to live into that and to learn and to know it was important

the more it animated my life and the more I felt like I started to be true to myself.

Did you identify a part in them where maybe they weren't able to use their voice?

Was there any part of you that had stopped using your voice in some way?

For sure.

And I kept feeling

for them like, oh, I feel bad for them that they don't have their full power or they can't make that decision or they don't have their voice.

But then I had to turn the question back on myself and say, Do I have my full voice?

Am I really speaking my truth in the world?

And here I am raising kids, and I really want to be a whole integrated person.

But if I'm also telling my three children back then to

use their voice in the world and to stand up for a bully on the to a bully on the playground and help somebody else, if I'm saying that to them, I realized I needed to be role modeling it too.

that's so powerful.

Do you feel

when I was reading the next day, one of the big takeaways I think, because so many women are like, how do I trust my voice?

How do I hear my voice?

How do I use my voice?

Am I worthy of using it?

And when you talk about

you know, the idea of something bigger than yourself, right?

In order to just really kind of focus on that, because so many women go, how do I get unstuck?

Like, I don't, you know, I don't know if I'm worthy of it.

And you talk about, you know, this passion of being a voice to so many people who don't have one and also another bigger why is your kids right it's it's so funny that it's easy for us to tell them all the things I have two little ones I have a six-year-old and a four-year-old and it's easy for me to tell them all the things and they go well wait a minute are they seeing me exactly

when you turn that question back on yourself the answer isn't always pretty is it yeah yeah and it's so much almost more powerful for them to see that because

you know whether it's like you know you can go after your dreams you can be anything but then if if we're not believing we're worthy of going after our dreams or using our voice, they're going to see that.

And, you know, you just mentioned going to an all-girls school growing up.

So I was going to ask you that because there is going to be, Melinda, and what I'm so excited about right now is the number of DMs, messages that are going to come in.

And so many people ask me about this topic, which is why when I read the next day, I was so passionate about this because it's this, I feel like this universal thing where maybe for the first time or the first time time in a long time, women are starting to go, well, wait a minute, you know, how do I raise my hand?

How do I say I want to be in that room or I'm worthy of writing a book or I'm worthy of, you know, launching my own, you know, my own company, wearing a CEO title, any of it.

When you made this transition.

from an all-girls school where everyone raised their hand and you know you were called on and everything's great and all of a sudden you're at Duke you're at Duke University and it's like like all colleges just about it's a free-for-all.

Everyone's just speaking up, da-da-da-da, throwing out.

How,

because so many women are going to be making this transition now in their own way.

They're going to go to work tomorrow and be like, I'm freaking speaking up on the Zoom.

I'm going to share my idea finally, even if

it's not a hit.

I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that.

How did you learn to go from that certainty of, oh, I'm going to raise my hand and be called on, everything's great, to, oh, I've got to speak up if I'm going to get a word in?

Yeah.

You have to find the courage inside yourself.

And for me, I can look and see other women who've done it and say, I want to be like that.

I see her being strong.

I see her.

How did she get there?

And if I can learn her story, her backstory, you start to realize that, you know, they didn't just magically appear in that position.

They've gone through hardship themselves.

And I have to coach myself, quite honestly, to lean forward, which is what I tell my friends and my daughters or even my son.

If you have doubt, which we all have times of doubt, right?

If you have humility, hopefully, if you're a humble person, you can admit you have some doubt at some point.

So just when you feel like leaning back, like, ooh, I don't know if I want to do that, that's when you either need to reach out to somebody who can remind you of your worth and remind you you deserve to be there and you deserve to speak up, or you got to find it in yourself and just lean forward.

I always say to them, just when you're getting uncomfortable, actually lean forward and do the thing that your doubt is kind of telling you not to do, because that's where courage is.

And the more you can practice that courage, the more you grow.

And I think the easier then it becomes.

Like it becomes your comfort zone.

Like, oh, I'm feeling doubt again.

I'm going to actually lean forward

instead of leaning back.

That is so good.

Totally.

That is so good.

You and I talked about earlier, like that you're an introvert, right?

Yes.

People think I'm an extrovert, but I'm right on the line, introvert, extrovert, but I actually fall on the introvert side of the line.

And so I don't enjoy big social gatherings.

They drain me, right?

And so I can be very, I can have doubt going into those.

And so I actually have to push myself to do it.

I don't...

I don't do it all the time because it's not where I want to be in life.

But when it's an important reason and I'm showing up, I have to say to myself, well, just trust.

Trust that you're going to find someone you know or try and connect with somebody in just a one-on-one.

And by pushing myself to do that, oh, then I can enter that big room.

But I definitely have doubt before I enter, like a big, say you're going into a ballroom and it's 300 people at tables, you know, and I'm like, ah, do I know anybody, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, if we're ever in the same ballroom, and I'm very happy to hide in the bathroom with you.

Okay, good.

And anytime

you will find me, true.

I'm really good at that.

We have a mutual friend, I won't say who, and she does that too.

And people would never guess because some of us, we can, you know,

we're different in different social environments, you know, and some people really like

small talk at cocktail.

They thrive on it, and some people don't.

Okay, so talking about that,

I'm so grateful, and I'm just going to say this again,

in reading The Next Day,

it is

such a beautiful book because I feel like the through line of humanity, the through line of being a woman, the through line of all the transitions we go through,

I feel your heart in it.

Like you're open.

You're really open in the book and you weave that through.

And just now for you to share, you know, if you might walk in a ballroom and there's 300 people and, you know, you might feel doubt.

Do I know anyone?

So you sort of like lean in and use that tool, which by the way, I love that tool.

I think so many people are going to now use that tool.

Like, okay, I'm feeling doubt.

Let me lean in.

You know,

this idea of imposter syndrome has been such a big thing.

Like when you look at the data, 75% of female executives deal with imposter syndrome.

Michelle Obama's come out and talked about how she still feels it to this day right now.

And it's a really big topic.

And can you share, you know, for you,

because I think it's so easy.

And just, you know, speaking from my own experience, it's so easy for people on the outside to be like, oh, you know, you've created this business.

you must be so, you know, this or that or whatever, but I, you know, still deal with,

you know,

needing to focus on believing I'm worthy almost every day.

Like I feel like it's a lifelong journey.

And so for you, you know, right now, as you sit here, you've had so many, you've done so much beautiful work on yourself as well that you share in the next day, which I think is so beautiful because a lot of times when people are doing that, they maybe hide it or they think it's just them.

And I love how open you are.

But right now, do you feel imposter syndrome in your life anymore?

We need to pause for a super brief break.

And while we do, take a moment and share this episode with every single person that you know.

Maybe they're going through a transition in their life in some way who this episode could inspire.

Because this conversation can truly not just impact our lives, but theirs too.

In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.

You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth.

When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.

And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You.

If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you.

In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.

Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth.

Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.

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And here's to becoming unstoppable together.

And now more of this incredible conversation together.

For you, you know, right now, as you sit here, you've had so many, you've done so much beautiful work on yourself as well that you share in the next day, which I think is so beautiful because a lot of times when people are doing that, they maybe hide it or they think it's just them and I love how open you are.

But right now, do you feel imposter syndrome in your life anymore?

Not very often is the honest truth.

Yes.

I deserve to be where I am in life.

Like I've worked really hard to get here and I know myself.

And so, I don't, if people don't like me or they don't like what I'm saying, I'm kind of at the point in life where I'm like,

take it or leave it.

Like, if I'm not your cup of tea, that's that's okay.

And maybe, I don't know, maybe that comes with being 60.

My mom said to me, I remember when she was getting a bit older, she's still alive.

Both my parents are, very close to them.

But I remember when she crossed 60, she said, you know, I just somehow just feel very confident going going around.

You know, I go to pick up the clothes of the cleaners and I tell them how they could be more organized, or I go to the grocery store and something's not quite right at the cash register and I speak out and tell them what they ought to be doing.

She goes, I don't know what's gotten into me, but I just feel comfortable speaking myself, my truth.

And so maybe that's sort of the wisdom that comes with 60, is you just get very comfortable in your skin.

But I don't have that a lot anymore.

But I, boy, boy, boy, did I struggle with that for many, many many years for sure

how for everyone wanting that feeling right now how does it feel to be like

if I if you don't like me I'm not your cup of tea that's okay and just that like I'm imagining it's freeing I'm imagining oh it's so freeing it's so freeing like okay you don't okay well you're you I'm me you know we don't have to necessarily like the same things or maybe you don't like my outfit I grew up in Texas where I felt like I needed to to be kind of dressed head to toe and look perfect all the time.

And

now, like, I'm perfectly comfortable going out, maybe too comfortable some days with, you know, not having washed my hair for four days, and it's in a ponytail, and I'm still going to go out and walk to the store, you know.

And I am who I am.

And I also think people put labels on us.

I mean, part of

the reason I even opened up so much in this book is: one, I feel like I've benefited so much.

I've learned so much from other people, from my friends, from being in therapy, from the wisdom of the ages, these authors and the quotes I put in.

But also, I feel a bit like

we just get to this point where

People are throwing all these labels on each other.

Like, I know what I know some people, I walk in the room, they're like, oh, they instantly think, you know, billionaire.

Well, I don't think of myself that way, but what can I do about that?

That's what they put on me but if I'm my true open-hearted authentic self maybe they'll get a chance to rethink what they think of me right and wouldn't that be a lovely thing because maybe we'll actually make a genuine connection and if not well okay then we don't

yeah

I found

you know that sometimes those labels too, they don't really change you.

They just change everyone else like how they might think of their perception of someone who maybe has that or whatever.

Exactly.

And I think sometimes we don't admit our own bias.

You know, we don't

say to ourselves, okay, why that person walking down the street or those two people that I don't even know, why did I judge them?

Because one had purple hair and the other had on a sweatshirt that I didn't know the name of the band of.

Like, what is it about me?

Like, why, why should I sit in that

sort of judging situation?

Why not just be open to it?

Maybe there's something I could learn from them, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

I remember when

I sold my business and nobody knew how we were doing, but L'Oreal is a public company.

And so it was everywhere, the purchase price, everything.

And the first thing I ever experienced was a lot of my friends and family who I love, they just now assumed I was busy all the time.

Oh.

And I'm like, No, I'm the same.

I've always been busy, but I'm the same.

Like, I'm the same.

And then, like, something big would happen and I wouldn't hear from them.

And I'd be like, they're like, oh, we're assuming you're busy.

And I'm like, huh.

And I realize, oh, it's that, you know, I mean, I was raised really humble, you know, and

have the most amazing, hard-working, multiple families.

But what I realized is like, oh, yeah, we all kind of see things as we are.

And then it's, and then that can almost create a disconnection away.

And so that's so beautiful what you just shared because it's like asking ourselves, well, wait a minute, am I seeing things through my own perception?

Or is that person really any different than I am we all have the same feelings we all have you know

One of the things that I think is so universal that you share in the next day that I didn't know, you say that during your first pregnancy that you gained 79 pounds and that you had this feeling of freedom the moment you saw the positive pregnancy test and the freedom of the pressure that you had sort of always previously been putting on yourself.

Yeah.

So I had to have a truce with my doctor because every time I would go in, you know, they always, which is important, they put you on the scale, right?

And he really was concerned.

And I finally said to him, okay, are you concerned because this is a problem for my health or my baby's health?

Like, is it?

And he said, no.

And I said, well, every time you talk to me about that my weight is up over the big, the number it should be, you know, or it's going up quickly.

And I said, so what's the problem?

And he said, I'm afraid you're going to be mad at me because when this is over, it'll take you a while to get the pregnancy weight off.

And I said, well, tell you what, let's have a truce.

You never bring up my weight unless it's a health problem for me or the baby.

And I promise to not be mad at you when this is over.

And I just, there was something about when I got pregnant, I was like, great, I know I'm going to get large.

I don't know how large I'll get.

It doesn't matter.

I'm, you know, I'm going to grow a baby.

I was so excited to grow a baby, but it was like, finally, I didn't have to worry about, you know, looking good, trying to be thin, what I put in my mouth, other than things that I, you know, knew and wanted to eat healthy.

But I just enjoyed the pregnancy.

I enjoyed it immensely.

And so much so.

I mean, I was just...

enormous.

And I couldn't pass.

I remember one time I was actually in the boardroom at Microsoft.

I was still working at Microsoft and it was a group of execs around the table, whatever.

And we happened to be using that room.

And one of the men who I liked a lot, and I knew his wife, and they had three boys, and he was very funny.

So he did not offend me.

But I tried to pass between his chair and the wall to get to my chair on the other side.

I couldn't fit through.

And he saw me and like, I kind of bounced back a couple times.

And he turns around and goes, huh, thought you could get through, huh?

I said, I clearly can't.

You're going to have to move that chair.

And he laughed and he did.

And again, I'd seen his wife get large and then get small, get large.

It just, but yeah, it was like this, for me, it was this freeing of, oh my God, these expectations that I look a certain way or be a certain way.

And then much later in my life, I realized, hmm.

what are the expectations I have of myself?

Who's putting that on me?

Maybe society, but maybe myself.

And so you have to really, you know, eventually look at that too, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And you talk about just,

I think I was just surprised because I had never heard you share that part of your life.

I love learning that you've always been like such a goal setter, all the things growing up

and always ambitious.

And

when you shared in the next day, so vulnerably about that, I mean, you look at the data and it's almost every single one of us has different, you know, body image issues or struggles.

And so when you talk about kind of that freedom, had you always been putting pressure on yourself from a certain age?

Or

when do you remember caring about if your body was a certain size I remember caring in high school but I felt good about myself or I should say good enough about myself right

but then I had a boyfriend in college that really was not a positive relationship for me at all and he cared a lot about how I looked and said a lot of things about it to me and that really is not okay.

It really is not.

And I eventually obviously got out of that relationship, but it took me too long and I inculcated too many of those messages.

And

I would say that carried through with me into my 20s and even into my 30s.

And it wasn't probably till I got to 40 that I got more okay with who I was, right?

And now I want to be fit because I want to be able to do all the things I want and I want to be healthy, but I'm not so focused on, you know, am I X weight or Y weight or do I fit in that size pants or another?

It's still there in the back of my head a a little bit, but it just doesn't isn't a big, isn't a big call anymore.

And boy, when you take that down, that perfectionism around weight and body image, you want to talk about, you take that down,

you have so much more mind space.

Yes.

It's an anxiety that's in there, right?

I had to work with several different nutritionists and I did some work in therapy.

But God, when I took that down, it was like, whew.

Okay, that feels better.

I was just going to say, it's like, when you look at all the data, especially someone being as passionate about girls and women, which I'm so passionate about girls and women, I think about my own journey with this stuff.

And you look at some of the studies Dove has done or

other

studies that have come out and they show like 91% of girls and women, they'll literally opt out as meaningful activities, whether it's, you know, going out with loved ones or seeing friends or doing something social, if they don't like how they look.

And when I think back in my life, I'm like, then the amount of time, because you were just saying how much frees up, the amount of time, Melinda, when I look back at my life and I think about the times I didn't go to the thing or I didn't put on the swimsuit or I didn't do whatever or I wasted so much time like trying to find something that fit

or being on the diet of the moment, I'm like, the amount of time that could have been spent on things that actually matter and actually make a difference.

And I feel like this idea of of almost like when we all think about it like what is that doubt around whatever or the time we've spent or the whatever what does that already cost us it's pretty wild and so and so yeah I'm kind of similar to you now where I'm like I feel so free now where I do not care I mean I try to be healthy all the things but like this morning in these white jeans I was like I see my cellulite and I already know in my soul Melinda's not gonna care I was like free I was just free and I I was like, I'm showing up, all of me, because my prayers, Melinda shows up, all of her.

It's gonna be great.

And it just feels free.

It feels free.

Yeah.

I think also I got to a point where I realized that I wasn't role modeling right for my daughters too,

right?

Because for them,

it was really important that I, you know, work on this in myself so I didn't put any of that on them.

And so when they had body issues, they could come to me and I could be honest with them.

One of the things I always said to all three of my kids is, you can count on me to be honest with you.

Right?

Like if they actually come to me and say, do you like this t-shirt on me?

I'll be like,

you know, and they're like, well, I'm going to wear it anyway.

Or, oh, okay, thank you, mom, right?

So like that honesty.

But also, the other thing the data shows is that if women are working and doing meaningful work,

they focus less on body image.

Yes.

Right?

Which, again, how beautiful is it to be able to put that energy and that time into things that you care about doing for the world?

Right.

Yeah.

This conversation is so incredible.

We made it into more than one part.

So if you're ready to ignite your courage to make a transition in your life and find yourself again, you are not going to want to miss the incredible part two of this conversation with Melinda French Gates coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

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