#2299 - Dave Smith

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Good to see you again, sir.

Good to see you too, man.

See you again in these times of trouble and chaos.

Wild, wild times.

Where leftists are lighting Teslas on fire and putting swastikas on them.

And that's the calmest they've been in years.

This is actually, for them, probably the best.

It's so weird how these people are so easy to wind up and get them to do what you want them to do.

Just put a narrative out there.

You're a good person if you go do this.

And they just go run out and fucking cause chaos.

And it's the most, I mean, look, it's not like as much chaos as, say, like the Black Lives Matter protest in 2020 or something.

But the one about the test, it's like you're destroying electric cars.

Which are mostly owned by liberals.

Yeah, like, but, but I thought you've been telling me for so long that this is going to save the world.

Like, the importance on going green was that we're all going to die unless we do it.

And now you're taking the most successful electric car company and trying to destroy them because for the crime of pointing out that maybe the $7 trillion that our federal government's spending has a wee bit of corruption in it.

You know, like maybe we could cut some of that.

It's so, I don't know.

It's so, on every level, it's just so surreal.

It is surreal.

It feels fake.

It does.

It genuinely feels like we're living in some sort of a stupid movie.

Yeah.

Well, and it makes you wonder.

It makes you wonder how controlled the whole thing is, you know, and I don't know.

I don't know.

But there is a, do you remember, I think I sent it to you at the time.

But there was a, like four years ago, there was a Time magazine piece about the 2020 election.

It was like a real long article.

um about it was something like the title was something like how the shadow government like stole i i i it wasn't exactly that but it was like basically went through the real conspiracy of 2020 and they're writing it from the pro conspiracy point of view but they're forget anything about like ballots or any of that stuff which i don't you know even when you interviewed trump he didn't really have a good answer for that you know he's like it's it was stolen and you're like well how do you know it was stolen it's like it was stolen you know the information yeah but

But what we do know, like the real conspiracy in broad daylight, that they just totally like tanked the economy.

Overhauled.

Yeah, that's it.

The secret history of the shadow campaign that saved the 2020 election.

Saved.

And they go deep into like admitting so much about like the censorship on social media,

the support of the riots and the protests.

And what's amazing about it is it really is incredible their ability

to turn on and turn off.

the protest machine.

Well, it's just money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just money.

There's a lot of people out out there that have nothing to do.

There are a bunch.

We were talking about the other day.

I was like, if I was 21 years old and someone said, hey, they're going to pay you $400 to go to a Kamala Harris rally, would you go?

I'm like, fuck yeah.

I'd go.

I'd hold that sign up.

I'd probably vote for that.

When I was 21, you had me at $400.

The conversation was over.

It was like, $400.

I already get $1,000 to go protest for Tesla.

Can we sneak in both of those?

Can we do one?

Yeah, $1,400 in a day, dude.

Nice.

Yeah, I was, I mean, I was thrilled when I was 25 to make like 75 bucks at the comic strip or something like that.

So, yeah,

but also, it's a, you know, it's like, and that's kind of like the whole CIA deep state game is it's always moving around the margins.

You know, like if you, if there's, um, because like when I, you know, on the show, I've talked about a bunch, like the Madan revolution in Ukraine.

And when I, when I'd say, like, this was a U.S.-backed coup against a democratically elected president, the response I'd get from people who disagreed with it would always be like, oh, you're denying the agency of the Ukrainian people?

Because like, look at these pictures.

There's all these Ukrainian people in the streets.

And you're like, well, yeah,

but the U.S.

poured $100 million into that street protest.

Like, you think that made a difference a little bit, you know?

And so like, it's not that there weren't real people there.

Sure.

But man, you want to keep a protest going through the Ukrainian winter.

And then all of a sudden you get $100 million.

And now you got heat lamps and celebrities and concerts and and then you keep the whole thing going until the democratically elected president has to flee for his fucking life and then what are you supposed to look at that oh that was just an organic revolution like no it fucking wasn't you know this is dc overthrowing putin's neighbor and you know they don't like that detail because then it fucks up the whole unprovoked yeah people don't like that detail they don't like the detail that there's many layers of subterfuge inter

exchanging with each other there's just so much money and so much influence.

And they're so good at it.

They've been doing it for so long that they can get Time Magazine to write an article saying how it's good.

Yeah.

It's great.

It's good that we saved the 2020 election.

And by the way, I love,

I know your, your podcast with Mike Benz was phenomenal.

That dude's great.

He's phenomenal.

I've done a few of them now.

Yeah, he's great.

But I'll tell you, I already, I knew all that.

He's right about all that USAID stuff.

And I'll tell you,

that was the whole thing.

It's Scott Horton's book, Provoked, which is like the best book that's been written on the history of the buildup to the war in Ukraine.

And it was, it's all in there, dude.

If you want, and it's all footnoted, but it's like, yeah, they're the ones pumping all this money in.

And then they make it out.

Like, when you, when you try to cut it, they're like, oh, no, we were just helping some kids get on a school bus over here and overthrowing the democratically elected government in Ukraine.

You know, like we did, we did all of that.

Well, that's the beautiful thing about USAID.

You know, it's like they had the money to do all this stuff.

There's the money to do essentially whatever they want all over the world.

And the way Mike Benz describes it as the

stuff that's too dirty for the CIA.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and so they can have plausible deniability, too.

Because, like, what are you talking about?

From an organization.

Yeah, there you go.

That's totally right.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like in the name.

They might as well call it.

They're like, we're not the CIA.

The good guy.

We're just George Soros' NGO, not the CIA at all.

Totally removed.

But also,

the thing is that, you know, when you look at like the actual money, because sometimes they'll kind of point out that they're like, oh, this is a very small percentage of the budget.

And it's like, yeah.

It's a tiny amount of money.

Well, right.

It's a small percentage of

our budget.

But our budget, I mean,

I know the entire GDP of Russia is like $2 trillion.

The entire economy.

And I don't know what Ukraine is, but smaller than that.

And we spend like between $6 and $7 trillion a year, just our government.

So when you're talking about flooding in $100 million,

flooding in a few billion, I think like it's like five or six billion dollars since 91 we put into Ukraine.

That may not sound like that much money in the context of America, the biggest economy or the second biggest economy in the world.

But politically, in a small country like Ukraine, that moves mountains.

That changes the entire landscape when the world empire is pumping that type of money.

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What do you think the world looks like, though, if the United States doesn't do that?

So if the United States doesn't, this is like the Mike Baker perspective, right?

Like if the United States doesn't make friends with these dictators, if the United States doesn't put people who are sympathetic to our causes in power, China does, Russia does, it looks very bad for America all over the world.

Things get dangerous.

It's

almost always

the war hawks rely on an unfalsifiable counterfactual.

You know, so it's like, oh, but if we didn't do this and we ran the counterfactual, it would be this crazy other scenario that's somehow even worse than this.

Now, the problem with that from my perspective is, number one,

the factual scenario is

like something like four to five million dead civilians over the last 25 years, entire nations destroyed, $8 trillion depleted from the U.S.

Treasury, tens of thousands of our bravest young men blowing their brains out.

So, you know, if you're relying on this unfalsifiable counterfactual, counterfactual, but it would have been worse if we hadn't fought a war in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and Libya and Somalia and Yemen and all these places over the last years.

Okay,

I'd say the onus is on you to really have to demonstrate that and not just assert that it would be worse if we hadn't done this, but also like,

you know, we are going broke doing it.

Like, we're $36 trillion in debt.

We can't even afford it.

And the idea that if we were to get out of the game of being the world empire, then like China would go, okay, great, now we get to destroy ourselves.

And it just seems completely,

it seems extremely unlikely that that would be the case.

And also, you know, it's like people act like.

Okay, if we weren't doing this in Ukraine, then Vladimir Putin could do whatever he wanted to.

Or if we weren't doing this, then China could do whatever they wanted to.

But they've got adversaries all around them, too, who are richer than them.

Maybe not in China's case, but certainly in Putin's case, richer than them are opposed to them.

All of Western Europe is not just a pushover.

China has Japan and South Korea, and they've got their own, you know, the truth is that there's nobody has the power that the U.S.

government has to do this shit.

It's only, like, we're the ones who can do this.

And it would just be a better world if we just didn't.

Like, you just can't convince me that, like, if we just hadn't have fought the terror wars, like, which was totally a possibility.

We could have, we had, um, the whole war on terrorism could have been over by Christmas of 2001 with the special ops taking out the al-Qaeda cells.

They could have trapped Osama bin Laden in Tora Bora when they had him there.

They let him escape into

Pakistan.

Why do you think they did that?

Because they already had their eye on Baghdad.

And, you know, if Osama bin Laden is caught, you don't get your bonus war.

You know what I mean?

He's got

the whole

war propaganda for invading Afghanistan.

everyone remembers WMDs, but it wasn't just that claim.

It was the claim which Dick Cheney and George W.

Bush and all the neocons pushed real hard was that he was in on 9-11.

Now, this totally fell apart because it was never true and they knew it wasn't true.

But the claim was he's got these weapons and he could hand them off to the terrorists.

And then, you know, what was the Condoleezza Rice line was like, we don't want the warning to be in the form of a mushroom cloud or something like that.

The fear was they're going to nuke Kansas or whatever

as soon as Saddam Hussein gives the weapons he doesn't have to the terrorists he's not friends with.

But if they caught Osama bin Laden, I think

that would have destroyed

the whole

seven wars in five years.

It's the Wesley Clark strategy.

Oh, yeah.

You want to hear something else on the Wesley Clark thing?

This is new.

So

Pierce Morgan,

say what you will about him.

He hosted a debate between, which I love doing the show, without treasuring it, but it's a circus.

It is a circus.

I think he's very smart.

Oh, he's a genius, dude.

That circus is fucking a lot of people lining up.

Dude, he is, he figured out, and you got to give him so much credit because he's probably the only one from like the old guard of corporate media who figured it out.

He went, okay, I see where we are.

Yes.

I see what's going on, and I know what people want to see.

Well, Tucker figured it out too, but in a different way.

No, Tucker is actually, yes.

Tucker's the one who ran out of time.

He's basically doing this kind of a show.

Yes.

Yeah.

No, I think.

He's basically doing long-form podcasts.

Well, look.

But with people who sucked Obama's dick.

Sometimes.

And other various experts.

Other guests.

And other really good people.

Not only that.

Yeah, really amazing people.

Maybe 10% of the coverage is about who sucked Obama's dick.

Did you see that physician who was on the other day that was talking about all the cancer rises?

Yeah.

They're seeing cancer.

I didn't watch the whole thing, but I saw a few clips from it.

It's very fucking interesting.

It's crazy.

They're seeing pancreatic cancer in kids, little kids, which is just unheard of.

He was saying that in all of his career, he had never seen pancreatic cancer in a child before.

And now they're seeing it.

Well, I mean, they used to call type 2 diabetes adult onset diabetes.

Right.

Because it was like, kids don't get it.

It was like unheard of.

And now it's like all over the place.

Right.

I saw that thing.

I saw it because you posted it, but the Kaylee Means.

Yes.

That was so amazing.

That's so great.

Wasn't it fucking amazing?

It's just amazing that they're arguing against this.

Well, there's like no argument.

And like, I'm far from, I don't really understand the shit that well.

But you go, okay,

it's crazy that Bobby Kennedy is overhauling this whole thing and cutting all this.

And you're like, okay, okay.

We spend more on health than any other nation in the world by far.

And we're the sickest.

You're telling me there shouldn't be.

And your position here,

it just like exposes that the entire media, it's like

your position here is to get in between the regime and any threat to the regime.

Well, it's also radical change and radical change causes controversy and controversy is what they sell.

So the media is going to sell that and they're going to sell it on the angle of this is creating all sorts of problems.

All sorts of people are losing their jobs.

Budgets are getting cut.

People are getting fired.

They're out on the street.

It's that.

That's just what they have to do that.

That is what, if you're doing television media, newsprint media, subscription media, that's part of your job.

Well, but you could also get huge ratings by covering the controversy that is we spend more money and have the worst outcomes.

Can't do it.

Can't do it because you get too much money from the pharmacy.

Well, that's right, but that's the point also.

Callie Means pointed that out.

Right.

And I mean, look, if the media was just driven by ratings, they'd be doing shows on Jeffrey Epstein every day.

Every day.

I mean, because you'd be the number one show in cable news.

You could go, I'm going to talk about no other topic.

Give me the 8 p.m.

hour on MSNBC or CNN or Fox News or whatever.

And I'll say, I'm just going to make my show about Jeffrey Epstein.

That's every single day.

That's all we're doing.

I guarantee you'd have the number one show in cable news.

More people would want to watch that.

Candace Owens' show.

It's on YouTube.

Yeah, that's right.

And it's doing better numbers than any of the shows on cable news.

It's phenomenal.

It's like they created a monster with her.

When they fired her from the Daily Wire, they created a monster.

Yeah, they sure did she can't be stopped yeah oh no no no there's no stopping cannon

she's hitting all the fucking third rails that no one wants to touch she's got a six-hour presentation on how bridget macrone is a man it's fucking six hours plus long

like i don't know i don't know if she's even kind of right about that i think she's right but she's got a lot of shit to say on it bro

she would be getting sued right now instead of trying they're trying to bribe her instead of trying to give her money to shut the fuck up yeah they would sue her.

Yeah.

Nope, you're probably right about that.

I don't know if they are suing her.

Have they tried to file anything?

They probably have.

They probably filed some bullshit laws.

I'm sure she's dealing with several.

I'm pretty sure she's right.

I don't know.

I might be wrong.

Yeah.

I think she's right.

The whole thing stinks.

And what stinks way worse than that, giant distraction, is that the number one opponent for Macrone just got sentenced to four years in jail and barred from political life for five years.

And the frontrunner, not just the number one opponent, the one who's winning.

Winning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's fucking crazy.

It's what they tried to do to Trump plus.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, they were able to take it further.

Yeah.

And then we'll see if there's the backlash the same way there was when they tried to do that to Trump.

And it's just so, it's like the

there's some propaganda that's like almost too

it can't be successful propaganda.

Like saying Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and is in bed with terrorists.

that's good propaganda right there.

You know, right after 9-11, you could totally convince the average American that, okay, well, we can't let that stand.

You know, in a post-9-11 world, we can't allow some Arab dictator to have nuclear weapons and he's friends with the terrorists and he's in on 9-11.

Okay.

But to say...

The propaganda is democracy is on the ballot while you're trying to arrest your opponent because he's winning in the polls.

That's just too, like, it's too ridiculous.

It's too honest.

It's like you have to say what you're arresting him for.

Yeah.

And then when people look at it, you're like, wait, Mar-a-Lago is worth how much?

Yeah.

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

34 what?

Bookkeeping errors?

They're misdemeanors?

Where's the felony?

There's nobody.

Isn't it past the statute of limitations?

It is.

And nobody's ever been tried on this charge.

This is a novel, like a charge where it would be a misdemeanor, but you've ramped it up to a felony.

It's not very novel.

And there's no victim.

And there's no victim involved.

The banks themselves are telling you, oh, we were happy to do business with Donald Trump.

We do business with him again.

Yeah.

We got our money back.

There's no victims at all.

And it's what every real estate agent does.

Every real estate salesman, every real estate investor.

They overvalue their properties.

And your property is essentially only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

Yeah.

I mean,

it was so obvious that they were just weaponizing the legal system to go after it.

It's so crazy.

Like, they tried to say Mar-a-Lago was only worth 18 million.

Yeah.

It's like, dude, I would buy it right away.

If someone told me you could get Mar-a-Lago for $18 million, I'd call my accountant right now.

I'd go, don't lose this.

Jump on this.

Dude, we'd do some bad

podcasts.

Wire the money.

Wire the money.

I'm moving to Florida.

Just bring down Austin.

You're going, everybody.

I'd have to have the call with Jamie.

He'd be like, fuck.

Yeah.

She'd go,

I'm moving to Florida, bitch.

You thought you had some uncomfortable summers here.

A lot of golfing for you.

I lived in Florida for a while.

I'll go back.

A lot of golfing.

I like some parts of Florida.

Florida's fun.

Well,

I don't think Trump's selling, and I don't think you're getting it for $18 million.

I'd like to live around alligators again.

It's exciting.

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Yeah,

don't leave your kids unattended.

Yeah, sure.

No, no, no, no, no.

Give your kids a gun.

So let me let me tell you because I forgot what I was saying.

So, okay, so Pierce Morgan hosts a debate between Scott Horton and Wesley Clark.

Oh, interesting.

And so in this debate, one of the most interesting things, Wesley Clark just very casually said this, but it's like breaking news.

But he said, so everybody, I assume we've played it like a bunch of times on the show before, but Wesley Clark's four-star general.

He was the head of NATO, and he told Amy Goodman on Democracy Now that he saw in late 2001

what has become known as the seven wars in five years, that the plan from the neocons in the government was that we were going to overthrow all these governments in the region in the next five years.

Now, this plan obviously didn't end up happening in five years, but it's literally he names seven countries and there's one to go.

And that one, by the way, happens to be the one that Donald Trump is flirting with a war with right now, Iran.

All the rest of them have happened.

Israeli news reported today today that a strike on Iran is imminent.

Yeah, you see.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, there's, I mean,

it's,

we're very clearly moving toward this war, yet another catastrophic war.

But so Wesley Clark gets asked about this in the debate, and he goes, oh, it actually goes back much further than that.

He goes, I first saw the plans in 1991, and it came from Paul Wolfowitz.

Okay?

So he goes, Paul Wolfowitz had these plans in 1991, and he took them to Brent Scowcroft, who was George H.W.

Bush's national security advisor.

So he takes them to them, and according to Wesley Clark, again, my source on this is a four-star general.

He says that Scowcroft went, we'll look at this after the election.

92 is the election year.

They lose.

Bill Clinton comes in and he goes, and the plan kind of got killed.

And then he said it was revived later in a study paid for by the Israelis.

And that this was done, that Richard Pearl was really the one who brought it back to life, and that it was explicitly done because this is what they thought was necessary to protect Israel.

And like as I've mentioned to you before, now I don't know exactly what study he's referring to, but that's what he said.

But I do know, as I've mentioned before on this, that anybody can go read The Clean Break.

You could Google it.

It's a clean break, a new strategy for securing the realm, which was a letter written by the guy he mentioned, Richard Pearl and David Wormser, to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996.

It was his first year when he came in as prime minister.

And the whole thing is basically the clean break is a break from the peace process, the break from Oslo, because essentially Bill Clinton had gotten Yitzhak Rabin and

Arafat to agree to like start this two-state solution process that should be loosely based around 67 borders.

You got to finally give these Palestinians a state.

You've been occupying them since 1967.

You got to finally take your boot off their neck.

And the clean break strategy was to go, listen, we got to get away from this whole idea of a Palestinian state and giving them land.

And basically the thinking, the Itak Rabin old school thinking on this, loosely speaking, it's a little more complicated.

But basically they were like, look, we've been occupying the Palestinians for decades and decades now.

The broader Arab world hates us over our treatment of the Palestinians.

And so what you got to do is you have to make peace with the Palestinians so that you can get along with all these Arab states around you.

That was kind of the thinking.

And the clean break strategy was like, no, no, no, no, no.

We're going to reverse that.

Instead of making peace with the Palestinians so that we get along with the Arab states surrounding us, what we're going to do is we're going to overthrow all of those states.

So we never have to make peace with the Palestinians.

So we never have to have a two-state solution.

What we'll just do is we'll go overthrow all of these governments.

Of course, Israel can't go overthrow all of these governments, but the U.S.

can.

And so after 9-1, they had these plans in, according to Wesley Clark in 91, we know about the Clean Break memo in 96.

But after 9-11, that's when, by a terrible twist of fate and all this shit, the neocons are in power.

They're in George W.

Bush's, but there is no Brent Scowcroft.

There is no H.W.

There's nobody with like a little bit of wisdom at the top.

It's Dick Cheney at the top and then his sidekick, George W.

Bush.

And they go, so now we're going to move to get this.

Do you remember when Dick Cheney was in the bunker and W wasn't?

Yeah.

That's when we knew it was up.

Yeah.

Yeah, that'll tell you something.

We were informed that he was in the bunker, which is so crazy.

Like, why would you say where the guy everyone's trying to kill is hiding?

Yeah.

Are you that confident in your bunker?

And where's this bunker?

What does it look like?

Can I get a fucking MTV cribs tour of this bunker?

What's going on with the bunker?

And look, man, and then just, and you could see now where there's like so much,

there's such a rise in people being so fed up with this stuff.

But the idea that we're now ⁇ I mean, look, just even with this whole signal gate shit that just happened, and it's like the real scandal there isn't even ⁇ I mean, I do think that Mike Waltz should be fired over this.

I mean, it's a crazy screw-up, and it's totally embarrassing.

How do you do that?

I mean, I don't understand how you do that.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

Did you see his interview?

But it is a signal chat

between

high-level government officials with classified information that's being discussed about war plans.

They would claim it's not classified, but it was information about an imminent attack that's about to take place.

It seems like that would have to be.

How's that not classified?

How is that not classified?

If that's not classified, somebody else should get fired.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, you have, I believe there was 18 people in that chat.

Is that correct?

It's something probably around there, yeah.

And

no one goes over those things before you start addressing this information.

If Jamie and I were talking shit

about someone and we decided to do it on signal, like I would make sure that I didn't accidentally include my mom.

Yeah, right.

Or a fucking reporter I know.

Or worse, like,

or Trump himself.

He's your enemy, like, the person who hates you the most.

How could you even have that guy in your contact list?

Like, what's going on?

And also, like, how do you accidentally include someone?

And the chat is, I mean, this is, you can't overstate overstate it, short of the President of the United States.

It's the most senior positions.

How do you not have

going over the list before you go live?

It's unbelievable.

But I will say that, like, that,

and perhaps there's another element.

I mean, I don't know.

You know, I don't exactly know.

I know in Trump's first term, the efforts from his own government to sabotage him were profound.

They're supporting him.

Yeah, I mean, they were framing him for being a Russian spy, his own intelligence agencies.

And so when you have a conversation like this get leaked to the most anti-Trump, you know, propagandist at the Atlantic, it does raise some questions.

Like,

was this done intentionally?

Was it not?

Whoopsies.

Yeah.

And I don't know if you saw, but Waltz was, he did Laura Ingram show

a couple days after it came out.

And I mean, his answers were just...

Ridiculous.

What did he say?

It was like,

she was like, so was this a staffer who messed up?

Was someone?

And he goes, no, no, no, you know, I take full responsibility.

But it was, you know, I'm sure a lot of people have a contact with the wrong number saved in the contact or something like that.

Yeah, but you don't include that.

Yeah, but also every time I get a new phone, one of the things I do is I go, oh, wow, look at all the dead people on my phone.

Right.

I have a lot of dead people on my phone.

It's distressing, yeah.

It's so sad.

But I have a lot of friends that I look through my contact list.

I'm like, fuck, he's gone.

Oh, fuck, he's gone.

It's, you know, like, and I have to make the decision.

Do I delete them from my contact list?

Generally, I don't.

I like seeing their names.

Yeah, I know.

It's a weird thing.

I have an old message from an old boss of mine.

I keep the phone just because it's got the voicemail on it.

Yeah, no, I get that.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like

you keep things that you don't need.

I have contacts for people that are not just dead, but people that are dead to me.

You know what I mean?

Like, why do I have them in there?

I don't talk to that guy anymore.

Like,

but you don't add them to a fucking chat list.

That doesn't make any sense.

Well, right.

And also, and he was claiming, like, the idea of, which I'm sure has happened to all of us before, where, like, maybe you're taking down someone's number and you enter it wrong.

So, like, but that wouldn't, you wouldn't happen to hit the Atlantic journalist guy's number.

No, he was, he had to be in contact with that guy.

Well, he claims he's never been in contact with him.

He's never met him.

He's never.

He had to include him in the middle of the day.

By the way, then they found pictures of him together.

at like different events.

So he's already lying.

Yeah, he's already lying.

It's not, but I will say, like, that,

it's like with a lot of these things,

it, you know, there was like a, which I've, we've talked about before on the show, but there's the leaked Victoria Newland phone call where she's deciding who the new government in Ukraine will be.

Right, like right around the time, okay.

And then at one point, she's furious at the European Union for not like moving in faster.

And she goes, uh, at one point she goes, you know, fuck the European Union.

We'll just do it ourselves.

We should play that recording.

Sure.

Cause it's so crazy.

But people should hear it.

But the point is that

the scandal became that she said fuck the EU.

And you're like, no, no, no, dude, that's not the scandal here.

That's not.

They're like, isn't this undiplomatic of her saying fuck the European Union?

Like, that's the least of what's interesting about this.

Isn't it interesting that congress people swear now?

It's very bizarre.

Everybody's swearing.

Yeah.

Everybody's like, fuck this, calling people retards.

It's great.

Well,

it's like they lost, they were trying to play that, like, Donald Trump's, like, down here, and we're the digital.

And then that didn't work.

So they were like, I guess we'll just try to be like him too now.

Fuck Elon Musk.

Yeah.

Everybody's excited again.

It's interesting.

They're adopting podcast language is what it is.

Yes, but it's, um, I don't think it's going to be successful for them because what they're not adopting is the authenticity of it.

And it comes off as kind of like, it goes, oh, now you're doing this?

Like, after all these years of pretending you were all formal and everything was about decorum and how Donald Trump was an embarrassment, he wasn't presidential enough.

And now you're like, oh, so you never really believed any of that shit.

It's like them trying to turn on the woke stuff.

It's like, it just doesn't, it's too long.

Right.

You were so married to this for too long.

You, you gave up your authenticity for too long.

Yeah.

And we're now, it's like a Chris Cuomo type deal.

Yes, it's like Chris Cuomo.

It's Elizabeth Warren drinking the beer, but like not doing it right.

You know, putting like her whole mouth over a bottle of beer.

I want people to get better.

So if you were a propagandist and then you're like, you know what, this is bullshit.

But there's examples of those people out there that are legitimate, you know, and then there's also people that realize, like, oh, well, that job is over.

I can't do that anymore.

Now I have to be something different.

Let me try to be authentic.

Yes.

But you can, people can read that, ma'am.

They can,

but you're also never going to fully be authentic.

You're always going to hold something back.

You're always going to, you're going to say things because you want people to think of you a certain way rather than,

okay, this is uncomfortable, but this is how I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Oh, but so, so anyway, just on the signal thing, though, again, like the real scandal here is not that they, whatever, either intentionally or were just so incompetent that they added this journalist to it and it got leaked.

Like the real scandal is like when you look through the chat and that it's like, what are we?

Because what are we doing here?

We're bombing another country in the Middle East.

We're bombing the poorest country in the Middle East.

Yeah, by the way, it's been bombed forever.

Oh, my God.

On behalf of Israel, because they're standing up against this fucking brutal war in Gaza right now.

And so we're going to bomb these guys again.

And then you have like, I got to say, man, like I was disgusted by Tulsi Gabbard's response there, someone who I've, you know, said a lot of nice things about over the years and who I really supported as being the DNI.

But like...

Literally only, J.D.

Vance is the only one who offers the mildest pushback and goes, he's like, hey, guys, this is kind of a mistake and it's kind of everything against what Donald Trump ran on.

And by the way like it's like such an insignificant amount of our trade that even goes through this area it's really Europe's problem not ours and but I'll go along with it if you guys want to if you guys say and then they literally say on the thing they go we've we've tracked the missile guy as they call him this is the target they're trying to take out they go we've tracked him to his girlfriend's apartment building

And so we'll level the apartment building.

And then Tulsi Gabbard's just like, job well done, team.

Everybody's cheering it on.

There's not like nobody, nobody even has the thought to go like, you know, like any,

is there a way we could do this without like murdering an entire apartment building's worth of people here?

Is there a way, man, this is a lot like, it's like,

do none of you guys even kind of believe in God?

Are none of you even scared that maybe God exists and that like, Jesus Christ, what are we doing here?

There's none of that.

There's not a feeling of that.

There's not a sense of like, we're, and, and, you know, I know I've talked about this before on the show, but we go the whole history of the war in Yemen, going all the way back to Obama's first term.

I mean, what we've done to this country, the poorest country in the Middle East, I mean, it was a goddamn genocide that happened in Yemen.

I mean, it was the drone bomb campaign from Obama was bad enough, but the Saudi invasion and the blockade and the war on the civilian population, you know, hundreds of thousands of people died, hundreds of thousands of cases of like cholera and these other like really very easily preventable and treatable diseases that they just babies were just dying of because they had a full blockade around the country.

The U.S.

Navy fucking enforcing the blockade.

The U.S.

fucking refueling the Saudi fighter jets and backing them the whole war there.

And the idea that we think what, launching a couple tomahawks is going to break the Houthis after they went through all that shit, there's no chance.

Like it's not, you're just killing people for no strategic benefit.

There's the only thing that would actually, like, we could overthrow the Houthis if we wanted to invade the country.

Like the U.S.

military could do that.

But like short of that, the idea that you have to do, that's like a big public thing, which is bombing somehow or another, especially drone bombing, sort of like is in the ether.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's almost abstract.

Yeah.

Like you don't, like, if we sent a

tier one team to go take this dude out, that would be front page news.

That would be like an act of war.

That would be like a thing.

We're declaring war on this country.

We've invaded their land with actual boots on the ground.

It's different for some weird reason.

Like you're allowed to use flying robots remote controlled by drone operators who, by the way, have some of the weirdest fucking PSD.

PTSD rather.

These people are all fucked up for a long time because they watch these folks because they're watching these folks.

They know the people around.

They get to know, they watch them for days.

They see them hug their kids.

And then they get that fucking call.

And

you don't get any of the, and I don't know.

I mean, I'm just kind of speculating here.

I'm no psychologist.

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But there's something I think where...

Like if you're in the fight, if you're in the action, you know, you, it, it, like, a lot of different, you know, primal things are going to kick up.

Like you're, you know, as all the troops say, and I've talked to a whole lot of them, it's almost unanimous to a man that they always say the thing you're fighting for once you get there is your brother next to you.

Like it's not even, it's like, forget the mission or whatever.

It's like, you fuck, this is your guy right here.

And you guys are going in to make sure your buddy doesn't get his legs blown off or whatever.

But when you don't, you don't have any of that, there aren't bullets whizzing at you.

There's not your friend next to you.

There's not this like sense of like, I had to do what I had to do.

And this, when you're just watching it on a monitor from a safe distance, I think there's some way that that fucks you up on a whole different level.

It's got to.

It's got to haunt your dreams.

It has to.

There's no other way.

I mean, you see a man holding his child and swinging her around in his arms, and then you know you're going to blow that man and that kid to smithereens.

Yeah.

And you have to because the kids are near the dad and we got to kill that guy.

Yeah, and you got orders, you know?

And a whole apartment building.

Like, what are we talking about?

Like, thousands of people?

But what are we talking about?

To get to this guy?

Well, you know, there's a mushroom cloud, boom.

Yeah.

Well, there's, there's a clip that Tim Poole got like a real short interview with Donald Trump during the campaign.

Like he, I think he was the first one, but it wasn't like a long-form podcast.

Like it was, he was the first podcast, but they did like 20 minutes or something like that.

But he did get this one clip out of Donald Trump on that thing where Donald Trump is

eviscerating.

Joe Biden for bombing the Houthis for the same exact reason because they were firing on shipping lanes.

And Donald Trump's like, what type of idiot is Joe Biden?

I mean, these guys, their answer for everything is to drop bombs on it.

Pick up a phone.

Diplomacy can work here.

Like, you don't have to do this.

And the fact is that

there were, during the ceasefire, which Trump's envoy negotiated, which has fallen apart now, but during the ceasefire, there were no Houthi attacks on the shipping lanes.

Like, they stopped them.

And then when the ceasefire fell apart, they picked them back up again.

Now, feel however you feel about that.

I'm just saying there is a diplomatic solution here, right?

Like they are willing to, like, if there's a ceasefire, they will stop these attacks.

But there's not a military solution short of invading the country and having yet another catastrophic war in the Middle East.

And it's like, so which one of those do you want to pick?

America first crowd?

I mean, like, Donald Trump was, Donald Trump was explicitly elected for this reason as a repudiation of the foreign policy of the last 30 years.

That we're like done with this.

We want to put America first.

And as you can see, even J.D.

Vance and then a little bit Pete Hagseth, their only issue, you know, it's never the innocent people being killed, you know, for a bunch of Christians.

I just, it's kind of weird that that never comes up.

But

their issue is, oh, this is us bailing out Europe.

Because Europe actually relies more on these shipping lanes than the United States does by orders of magnitude.

But even that, that is part of the America First thing that Donald Trump totally ran against.

Like, why is it that we have to foot the bill for everybody else's defense?

That makes no sense.

We're broke.

Our country is in bad shape.

We need those resources here.

What is the justification for these bombings?

What is the public justification?

That the Houthis have attacked a few U.S.

cargo ships and that there's, you know, that they're international trade, that they don't have a right to disrupt international trade in this way, which is like, okay, it's true.

I I mean, the thing that I've seen the most is like that people will go, well, we can't just turn a blind eye to this aggression by the Houthis.

But I also do think, and I don't even blame people for this because it's nobody, you know, in the corporate media or ever talked about any of this stuff or very rarely talked about it, never really told the story.

That it's like, yeah, if you're just coming into the story now, I could see where you might think the Houthis are the aggressors.

But if you're rewinding the tape from this, there is just no debate about it.

I mean, there's no question that we literally started,

you know, it was in 2009 when Obama started up with the drone bombing, the then-secret drone bombing campaign.

And Yemen was one of the major theaters.

You know, this was

where, if you remember, because it was like the biggest scandal of the Obama administration, also not talked about much in the media, but was talked about on a lot of podcasts, was that Anwar Alaki and his like 14 or 15-year-old son, his two American citizens, were both killed by drone bombs in Yemen.

And this caused a bit of an outrage among some people because you were like, hey, you know, you really can't murder American citizens who have never been charged of a crime.

You can't just say,

well, I just, you know, forget that whole Bill of Rights thing.

They're on my list.

And by the way, the kid was not.

Al-Qaeda affiliated or anything, and they claimed that that wasn't intentional, but it sure seemed like it was.

But so Obama had a drone, you know, he was fighting at at the time Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula had like a presence in Yemen.

So he's drone bombing these al-Qaeda sites.

I think the estimates were something like 95 to 96% of the people who died were not the targets.

So just killing a whole bunch of innocent people.

And then as always happens in these situations, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula just grew stronger and stronger and stronger because this is, you know, it's insurgent math, like General McChrystal said.

You know, you kill a bunch of innocent people and then, you know, you kill one little girl and she had three brothers and a father and two uncles and they all join up al-Qaeda now because like, fuck you, they're going to get you back for that shit.

Everyone's radicalized.

Yes.

So we're doing this drone bomb campaign over there.

It's completely failing and al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is just getting stronger and stronger.

At the same time, Obama kind of bribed off the dictator of Yemen at the time, this guy Saleh.

And he was like, listen, if you let us do our fucking drone bombing campaigns in here, we'll give you a whole bunch of weapons and money.

And so he took the deal.

And then he used those weapons to go attack this group, the Houthis.

And then he also started losing to them.

Like even with the U.S.

weapons, the Houthis were fucking him up.

And then little by little, the Houthis like kind of took over the whole country.

And then in, now, the Houthis are also enemies with al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Like these are radical Sunnis, al-Qaeda, versus radical Shiites, the Houthis.

And so they're fucking enemies and they're fighting a civil war while all this is going on.

And then Saudi Arabia decided to invade in early 2015.

And in 2015, and you could look this up if you Google Obama to placate the Saudis.

These are literally what the Obama officials told.

told the New York Times, I believe it was the New York Times,

that they told them that literally this is why.

So Obama stabbed the Houthis in the back, took Saudi Arabia's side, took al-Qaeda's side, started fighting on the, started using the, fighting in a civil war against the Houthis, which is, you know, in effect, taking al-Qaeda's side in that war.

And so the Saudis invade the country.

Now, Obama said essentially that because the Saudis are like an important trading partner, and they were pissed off at us at the time.

They were very upset about the war in Iraq.

The Saudis were the ones in the region who were against it the whole time because they knew.

They were like, you're just going to give Baghdad to Iran, basically, and that's their big enemy is Iran.

And then they were also really pissed off because Obama did the one decent thing he did in his administration was he worked out that deal with Iran, the same goddamn thing that Trump tore up and is now demanding they get back into some type of nuclear deal.

But so in order to placate the Saudis, Obama goes, okay, we'll back your war here.

And like I said, full blockade around the country, refueling their military jets.

Quiet support for Saudis entangles U.S.

and Yemen.

This is...

Yep.

Here it is.

Obama, in an awkward twist, becomes Saudi Arabia's defender.

Wow.

And

it is hard to overstate how brutal the Saudis were in this war.

I mean, like, you know, you think of Gaza, something not too unsimilar to that, but you're talking like a full blockade around the country.

This was the poorest country in the Middle East before any of this.

Full blockade around the country.

The Saudis were bombing.

they were bombing their agriculture, they were bombing their like wheat silos, they were bombing their irrigation ditches.

Just like a total war on the civilian population all the way from 2015 into 2021 when it essentially ended in like an Afghanistan style, I guess we give up.

Like it was just eventually the Saudis, I think the Houthis, you know, one of the things that's really interesting that happened this whole time, like you were talking about the drone wars.

So back in 2009, first of all, it was secret.

The drone program wasn't, everyone knew it.

There had been good reporting on it.

But the way they got the good reporting was like people found the drones in Yemen, you know, and they'd take like little, you know, grainy cell phone pictures and be like, look, this is a U.S.

drone.

So there's clearly, but actually the

Obama's press secretary, it's not, god damn it, not Jay Carney, his first press secretary.

I'm blanking on his name.

But he admitted this on NBC News.

It was like a really amazing.

But he

was talking about how the drone program, this is years later, like 2012.

He's at NBC News now.

And he was talking about how when he used to get questions about the drone program,

he wasn't allowed to even acknowledge that it was real.

So he would just sit there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Robert Gibbs.

I apologize.

I should have remembered that.

I was told not to even acknowledge the drone program.

There's video of this.

When I went through the process of becoming press secretary, one of the first things they told me was, you're not even to acknowledge the drone program you're not even to discuss that it exists said former white house press secretary robert gibbs on up with chris hayes sunday so now think about okay by the way there is video of this it wasn't you know i don't know if it's in this article or not but i mean that was essentially the point but the thing in the video it's so funny is that they all are laughing about it like they're talking about like what kind of what a funny thing it is like imagine being in the position where you can't admit that a real thing's real and journalists are asking you questions and he said because it is kind of funny in a weird way but that's like you'd think a newsman would that wouldn't be the number one thing oh here yeah yeah this is it

i certainly think there are aspects of that program uh that are and will remain uh highly sensitive and very secret but but let me give you uh an example here chris when i went through the process of becoming press secretary one of the things one of the first things they told me was you're not even to acknowledge the drone program.

You're not even to discuss that it exists.

And so I would get a question like that, and literally, I couldn't tell you what major asked, because once I figured out it was about the drone program, I realized I'm not supposed to talk about it.

But here's what's inherently crazy about that proposition.

You're being asked a question based on reporting of a program that exists.

So you're the official government spokesperson acting as if the entire program, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I think in many ways and I think what the president has seen and I have not talked to him about this I want to be careful.

This is my opinion.

But I think what the president has seen is our denial of the existence of the program when it's obviously happening

undermines people's confidence overall in the decisions that their government makes.

That's really that's the major problem with murdering people in the poorest country in the Middle East.

You know it might undermine people's trust in you and therefore your ability to murder more people in the poorest country in the Middle East.

So just like, by the way, whenever you see anyone over the last like, say, eight years on MSNBC or CNN talking about a threat to democracy and the free press and all this, shut the fuck up.

You hired that guy, the guy who's sitting there telling you.

Like when it comes to the issue, forget whether you're for the war or against the war.

It's a secret war.

You're not even, forget democracy.

The people aren't even allowed to have an opinion on that.

Even as as the White House press secretary, you're not even allowed to acknowledge it.

And like, why not?

I mean, it's just, it's not as if they were like, well, if al-Qaeda knows that we're coming for them, then something is compromised.

It's just like, oh yeah.

Obama ran as the peace candidate.

He collected a Nobel Peace Prize before he had done anything.

And he didn't particularly want to tell people that he had just started this new campaign of just murdering whoever he wanted to for whatever reason he wanted to.

And, you know, one of the things that's interesting about the technology of it, and I remember people much smarter than me predicting this at the time,

I guess I never really appreciated like exactly the timetable of all of it, but it went in 2009, which he's talking about 2009, a few years later there.

It went from like, oh, the U.S.

has this new technology where we can use drones in war to all of a sudden now in 2025, you're sitting around and everybody had, like, this is just part of war now.

You know, literally the even the Houthis, I mean, they don't have the capabilities we have, but they have drone bombs.

And that's part of how they were able to get the Saudis to finally back out is like they could hit some of their oil fields with their drone bombs.

And it was enough of a pain in the ass for the Saudis to be like, all right, like, call it quits.

And so they ended that war in 21.

But now these Houthis have been in charge of Yemen the whole time since.

You know, in the same way that it was like...

We fought this whole war to get the Taliban out of Afghanistan.

We just lost.

Like, they just still run the whole place.

And so these guys guys are still there.

They have gone through

what was the worst humanitarian crisis in the world from 2015 to 2021.

They've survived all of that, and they're still there.

And now they see the same goddamn thing happening in Gaza.

And they're the one.

Again, I'm not like this is their stated thing.

I'm not saying like they're all great people or something, but they're going like, no, fuck that.

We're standing up for the people in Gaza.

And so they were like, as long as all of you guys are supporting Israel, just slaughtering all these people, then we are going to start, you know, like trying to shut down these shipping lands, which they don't really have the capacity to do, but they can hit some cargo ships and hit some military ships.

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How does this ever settle?

How does this ever relax?

Like when you look at what happened in Gaza and you think about the tensions that existed before October 7th, and then this happens, and then

the Israeli attack happens.

Like, how does anything come to a peaceful resolution at this point?

Well, it looks really bad at the moment right now, you know?

And like what I always like to say, which I, you know, is like 50% just me telling myself something to feel better about the situation, but then 50% like it is kind of, you know, like you, look, you could go around the world right now and like

England is right next to

is right next to Ireland.

And everybody's just cool there right now.

And that would have seemed like impossible, you know?

And like France and Germany and you know what I mean?

Like there are all these countries where like there was a time where it just seemed impossible.

And you know, that was Egypt and Israel.

So Egypt and Israel went to war four times in the first

20-something years of the existence of the state of Israel.

They just kept going to war and war and war against each other.

And then in the late 70s, they made a deal.

And it was like a land for peace.

swap.

But isn't it part of the problem that Palestine is not a state?

Oh, that's yeah, that's like the whole problem.

That's the whole thing.

You can never come to peace if you never even acknowledge they exist.

Yeah.

Well, they've had, so

Israel took control of what are known as the occupied territories.

They took control of Gaza and the West Bank in 1967.

And it's one thing, I'm not saying it's ever justified, but like it's one thing to like occupy an area for a few months after a war as you're going through the process of turning it over to the, you know, like to themselves, or it's maybe even a few years.

But like, we're going into like 60 years of complete Israeli control over these people.

And under Israeli control, they have zero rights, zero rights whatsoever.

I mean, like, they don't have the freedom of movement.

They don't have freedom to trade with the outside world.

They don't have voting rights.

They don't have the right of due process.

I mean, they get, they get, if literally to this day, like in the West Bank, where there's like all these big Israeli settlements, because the Israelis are just constantly slowly stealing more of the Palestinians' land.

They, if like an Israeli settler in the West Bank, in the same jurisdiction, gets in a dispute with a Palestinian there, the Israeli citizen, he's a citizen of Israel.

He has rights.

He goes to a trial.

The fucking Palestinian goes in front of a military trial.

If he's lucky enough to get that, they have something like a 99% conviction rate.

You're just totally fucked.

Like, and this, and, and then, look, a lot of people will point to like, look, like, there's, there's been terrorism on the Arab side toward the Israelis going back many years.

But, like, I think you're essentially right.

You can't expect a group of people who have, to just be subjugated for eternity and not, nobody's going to try to violently fight back.

And of course, when they non-violently try to fight back, that gets squashed too.

That gets met with violence.

And then the wildest thing, Trump comes along and says, we're going to take it.

Yeah.

We're going to dig it.

We're going to turn it into the Mediterranean of the Middle East.

It's such a, man, it's such a,

I really just, I'll say, listen, I know, like, the last time I was on was on election night.

And I, look, I supported Donald Trump in this last election.

I think Donald Trump was like a necessary

force.

Donald Trump is a once-in-a-century type of figure.

Yeah, I mean, there was just nobody was positioned to do the things that Donald Trump did.

And there were like enormous positives that came out of him winning this election.

I mean, Donald Trump landed a devastating blow on the Republican establishment in 2016 when he won the primary.

And he landed a devastating blow against the Democratic establishment by winning the presidency this year.

And

he like destroyed the corporate media.

like in a way that nobody else could have done.

And all of those things are like incredible achievements, you know?

But there is this like kind of tragedy with Donald Trump too, where it's like he's the one guy who was able to do all of this.

And I will say, there were just, there were hopes that it was like, hey, he may be this time around,

oh man, he's got Bobby Kennedy there, he's got Tulsi Gabbard there, he's got like all, okay, this is like a whole

day.

Yes, right.

He's gonna, he's here to end the wars.

Also, like, he had been burned by the system now.

It's not just that they called him a Russian traitor or whatever.

It's like they tried to throw him in jail.

They tried to murder him.

Okay, this is maybe.

Yeah, no, no, no.

I'm sorry.

That was totally, totally happy.

He had five phones.

A lot of times, as we all know, professionally scrubbed departments.

Yes, that happens all the time, Joe.

Many times, presidential candidates, the frontrunner to be president, wants to get former presidents.

A sniper gets a clean shot 130 yards away from them.

That's a very common thing.

A guy was in a black rock commercial just a couple years ago.

And that's, and a lot of those guys were in black rock commercials once, Joe.

These are normal things that happen to normal people.

It's part of everyday politics.

But so a lot of this made people think, like, oh, maybe,

but I will say already into Trump's presidency, it's just a lot is, it's like, ah, shit.

No, I guess I got to be happy with the things that he did, but the idea that he's really figured this out or he's really on to something or he's learned a lot or he's got, the guy is out there, he's saying we should primary Thomas Massey and throwing his support behind Lindsey Graham.

I mean, come on.

What is Thomas Massey?

He's pissing him off.

No, he didn't vote for the freaking spending bill.

He voted against the CR because it increased spending and was increasing the debt and it was refunding all of the programs that Doge had recommended be cut.

So he was like, no, I'm not voting for this.

And Trump was like, well, I'm going to need you to vote for it.

And he was like, no.

And that's it.

That's his crime.

The same reason Trump hated him in 2020 because he wouldn't vote for the

$2 trillion COVID spending bail.

Because he was like, wait, you're telling me?

Because the country's locked down, that means we have to bail out every giant corporation.

around the country.

Like, no, I'm not supporting this.

And then Trump sent all his people to go, you know, he's betraying America first or whatever.

And there's once Trump gets in there, he just wants like, you know, the next win.

But,

you know, the real problem here is like,

look, the idea that we are going to go and ethnically cleanse, like finish the job of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians out of Gaza on behalf of Israel.

It's like, first of all, what do you think?

What do you think the reaction to that's going to be?

What do you think that's going to do to our country here?

You know, it's like, I feel,

it's like I see a lot of people who get very upset about what they call the rise of anti-Semitism,

which certainly, you know, according to my Twitter feed is, is real.

And there's a lot of people.

Do you think it's, well, is it a rise or is it the ability to express it now been unlocked?

Or is it both?

I don't know.

Maybe both.

You know, I have a tough time kind of figuring out exactly what it is.

It's also

there's a troll aspect to it.

You know, there's when you make one thing, the thing that you're not allowed to say and the thing that's going to get a rise out of everybody, this has been true and it's been building for many years.

Kind of the alt-right back in the day was kind of the first, you know, version of this, but where you could be some guy

just on your computer.

You could be a 15-year-old on your phone or whatever, and you could get, you know, the New York Times senior editor to be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, look at this outrage.

You know, and just the ability to provoke that reaction out of somebody is, that's fun.

Shit first.

Yes, that's fun.

And

you're handing this person who has no power, like some real kind of power.

Right.

I also think that

young, for young men today, particularly like young, straight white men, I think it's kind of hard, like for me and you to even understand the world they grew up in that is very different than the world we grew up in.

Like they grew up in this woke era.

And okay, now it's kind of like that's receded and wokeism has been defeated.

But they grew up in a time where racialism

was accepted by every powerful institution just against them.

Right.

You know, like it was totally fine to demonize straight white men at your high school, at your college, in your movies, in your TV shows,

your politicians, celebrities, everybody.

And that does like, it unlocks a certain thing that we kind of all had a gentleman's agreement to not unlock.

Like, we're just not really going to do that.

You know, we don't want to be like racialists.

And so that's, I think that's a component to it too.

But there's also no question that it's, you know, it's exploded since Israel's launched this war on Gaza.

Yeah.

And it's exploded on the left, which you never heard anti-Jewish sentiment in public spaces before.

You really never saw that on campuses.

You know, if Israel did something, you may see a protest, but it was

generally organic.

These don't seem organic.

They seem very funded and they're very disruptive.

And, you know, some universities experience vandalism and fires and crazy shit and people being threatened and doxxed.

You know,

it's different.

It's a different level of it than I think we've ever seen before.

And

it's created a giant divide on the left, right?

Because on the left, you have a lot of people that are their whole life, they've been in support of Israel, right?

And now all of a sudden, there's these free Palestine people that are also on the left.

So you have this divide on the left.

Yeah, and there was, that divide goes back a lot.

Like there were leftist divides over the Israel-Palestine question going back really to like 1967, where most of the

kind of like

the

black power movement people, like the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, those guys, they all sided with the Palestinians because they all saw it as like an extension of like, yeah, that's the whole, you know, we're against

this kind of like racist, colonizing, you know, like force.

And then, of course, there were a lot of influential Jewish people on the left who were like, no, not in this case, we're okay with it.

But you guys sure are right about all that civil rights stuff.

But like, let's not look at it.

Let's not look over there.

But so a lot of that has kind of re-emerged.

Now, I do also, you know, I don't know.

Like, I've talked to,

I talked to one kid who was like a grad student at Columbia, which was really like the center of so many of these protests.

And he's Jewish.

And I was like,

I was like, so what's it like?

And he was like, yeah, they're annoying.

And they're Latin.

Like, some of their, their, their chants are like real kind of weird.

I don't really know what they mean by it.

And I was like, well, do you ever feel like threatened?

And it's like, no, no, it's not.

Like, it's fine.

They'll just chant as you walk by.

And then I do know also that they

had at least one time, they had like a Seder service because they got to like Jewish people in those protest movements too.

And so they, over last Passover, it was a year ago, they had like a Seder service with the Jews like in there too.

So I also don't, I don't know, like.

what percentage of them are like just against the war and seeing pictures of dead babies and stuff like that.

What percentage of them are actually, you know, like harbor resentment toward Jewish people?

Like it's, it's kind of hard to measure.

But I would just say that like it almost in a very similar way to like what I was talking about with the drone war against al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

It just made them stronger.

You know, it's like, hey, if you want to see less al-Qaeda, maybe stop having the American military kill innocent civilians in their land because that seems to be fueling them.

And at the same time, for the people who are so concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism, you're like, okay, well, it has exploded since Israel's been doing this to Gaza, right?

So like, maybe the U.S.

shouldn't be funding and arming the whole goddamn conflict because that does seem to like at least give those people a giant talking point to latch on to.

Maybe we shouldn't have a system where like our political class is not allowed to criticize a foreign government.

And a foreign government that's gotten us into like seven wars, or at least played a large role in getting us into those wars explicitly I'm not like alleging some secret conspiracy I'm saying like Benjamin Netanyahu is John McCain right like he's very he's he's been telling us Iran has a nuke he's been telling us they're five years away from a nuke since I was seven Literally, he's been saying Iran is five years away from a nuke the entire time.

And he came over here, he testified before Congress in 2002 that we, as a regional expert, that if we were to overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy would sweep the region and there'd be all these positive reverberations.

And then it goes, and you also got to overthrow the regime in Iran, and you also got to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi.

And like every single one of these things, we're not Iran yet, still pushing for that.

But we went and overthrew Saddam Hussein.

We went and overthrew Muamm Qaddafi.

And I don't know what swept the region, but it wasn't democracy.

No, I remember in the early 2000s when I realized there's two fighting factions of Islam.

I was like, what?

Yeah.

And that Saddam Hussein had actually kept that from boiling over?

Yeah.

Because he was in control?

Yeah.

No, I remember learning it too, right around the same time.

You're like, wait a minute.

You're telling me there are shirts and skins over there?

Do they fight against each other?

Like, what do they...

Do you know the difference between Sunni and Shi'ad?

I mean, I know that they're different sects of Islam, but like in terms of the religionists.

Is it like the Catholics versus the Protestants?

Yeah, I think it's

something like that.

It's always the people with the most minor interpretations of their holy book differences who like go to war the most aggressively.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Like it's like the Catholics and the Protestants.

You know, like, you agree on 95% of this religion, but like, whatever.

If you didn't know about that conflict, you would never believe it's real.

Like, Christians going to war with other Christians, like different sects.

Like, brutal, horrible wars.

Especially when you could, like, read about Jesus and you'd be like, this doesn't seem to be what he's saying at all, man.

Who's at the helm of this fucking battleship?

It's unbelievable to me that any, and I'm not claiming to be any type of religious expert and I'm not a Christian, but it is unbelievable to me that anybody could be a Christian and could then like somehow do the mental gymnastics and rationalization to be like, and that's why you got to support every war.

That's why we got to fight every single one of these wars.

Because, you know, just like that guy Jesus told us, slaughter women and babies.

Seems like the opposite of his message from my humble understanding of it.

So the argument of that, if you want to take the argument, would be like, you have to do that to protect everyone here.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the argument.

Right.

Like we have to go to war with Iran, a country that doesn't have nuclear weapons or an Air Force capable of delivering them here.

And it's so convenient that they're evil.

So convenient that they torture students and they execute Olympic gold medalists in wrestling because they protested against the government.

It's so convenient.

Well, it's also like, you know, there's evil shit going on all over the world.

Oh, yeah.

And it's terrible that there is.

But isn't it interesting how like the next war, you know, like I was,

I was in,

I did a debate at Princeton University

a few months back against Josh Hammer, who's

an editor at Newsweek.

And we did like an Oxford-style debate on whether the U.S.

should support Israel.

And one of the things he said to me, so I was talking about like all this stuff, like the clean break strategy in the seven countries in five years.

And he was like, oh, the war in Libya, that was a totally separate thing.

Like, that was like a liberal interventionist war.

And I was like, well, it sure is a coincidence that it was one of the seven countries.

You know what I mean?

Like, what a wild coincidence.

Kind of crazy.

The government we decided to overthrow was the exact government that four-star General Wesley Clark told me we were planning on overthrowing way before any of these claims about how Gaddafi,

all these bullshits.

The Libya one is wild.

The Libya one's wild when you see how good of a leader he was.

He was obviously an evil dictator.

No question.

An eccentric fellow.

Yeah.

Definitely a piece of shit.

However, for the people that lived there, they got no interest loans.

They had incredible infrastructure.

Their economy is doing well.

They were at peace.

I think it was one of the richest countries in Africa, which is, you know, grading on a curve.

But then a few years later, after we invade, or we helped people, we assisted.

It becomes a failed state, and they have slave auctions on YouTube.

Yeah, that's right.

Now, I've heard it's recovered somewhat.

I see people reach out from Libya and tell me that Tripoli is actually not bad.

Is doing better than it was.

But also, and the other part of this is that this was a huge contributing factor to the migrant crisis in Europe.

You know, like all these things do have like these domino effects where it does.

So then, Gaddafi also was kind of like not allowing that to happen.

And then you had these huge numbers of refugees pouring into Europe.

But then you see the risk.

They're pouring in, but it seems like

they're wanting them to pour in.

I mean, this is where it gets really strange.

You know, I had a conversation with someone about this that didn't understand it, and we were going over civil unrest and how the use of civil unrest.

One of the things that civil unrest does do really well is it makes people want to have measures to stop civil unrest that ultimately erode liberties.

It's a really good strategy.

So if you want to take away people's guns, take away the right to protest, one of the best things to do is to release as many criminals as you can and flood your city with violence and crime.

The more violence and crime you have, the more people will be freaked out.

The more people will be freaked out, the more likely they are to give in to new measures of control.

That's exactly right.

Exactly.

And you could do that worldwide.

You could do that worldwide.

But also, let's talk about Europe, okay, in particular.

Let's talk about Germany.

Let's just talk about the UK.

What have they been doing besides letting in immense numbers of migrants?

One thing they've been doing is arresting people for Facebook posts.

They're arresting people for stepping out of line.

So they're moving closer and closer to totalitarianism.

And if you look at the numbers of people

that have been arrested for just Facebook, one of them was someone just got arrested, pulled out of his house at 2 o'clock in the morning for a Facebook post saying that he didn't like the Palestinian flag.

I mean, this is wild stuff.

It's wild stuff.

And thousands of arrests, not just have you ever seen Constantine Kissing talking to someone about this?

He was explaining.

Yeah.

He was explaining, like, Russia imprisoned 400 people for posts on social media.

That's crazy, right?

How many do you think the UK did?

And he's like, oh, I have no idea.

It's like 4,000.

And he's like, what?

Yeah.

Thousands of people are getting arrested in the UK.

And you're only seeing some of them.

You're seeing the people that are filming it at the time who

have the wherewithal to grab a cell phone.

There's a lot lot of people that just have been by themselves that just got scooped up.

What was it?

I think it was 60 Minutes did a piece where they had like three lawyers.

They were sitting there and kind of like asking them, so would this post be okay?

Would this be okay?

Could I say something?

And they're like, well, posting it is actually much worse than just saying it.

And I mean, like, it is really creepy.

It's really creepy.

But you're so right.

You're so spot on about this kind of like this like one-two punch of like destabilization and then government coming in with the solution.

It's a Harry Brown, who was

deceased now, but he's a brilliant

guy.

He ran for president on the Libertarian Party in 96 and 2000, but

he used to say

the government breaks your leg and then offers you a crutch.

And then like they convince you to be thankful for the crutch.

And you're like, man, if this government wasn't here, I wouldn't have a crutch.

I'd be walking around on broken legs.

But you see it where like, look even um if you just watch i remember like during 2020 uh in when the george floyd thing first happened and the and forget like whatever the autopsy there was the one autopsy that said it was fentanyl that killed him like leaving those that all of that aside just when the video of of that uh derek chauvin kneeling on this guy's neck who's on the ground and crying in pain and he's kind of smiling and then the guy dies.

Everybody I know, I mean, it was so unified.

I knew hardcore right-wingers, you know,

my Fox News-watching father-in-law.

I remember I was at his house the day it happened, and he goes, every one of those cops should be put in handcuffs on national television.

And he goes, they should all be charged with murder.

Like, there was, you know, that was like, you cannot do this.

And then after the riots started in the summer, all those same people were like, send in the military.

You know what?

Like, like, you just see how like someone could so quickly go from like, you know, we really need some police reform here.

Like, there is too much state power of policing.

To then after you see some riots, what are you asking for?

Well, who's going to stop that?

Martial law?

Yeah.

We need the government to come in and crack down more police power than ever before.

So you could see like, and that's just like a little scale, but you can see how much that that demand, and by the, and sometimes

very understandably so.

Like in that example, very understandably so.

Because you're like, well, I don't know.

Like, I'm totally against like the over-militarization of the police.

But when you have these huge riots across every major city in the country, you're like, well, I guess that's this is the one time we have a reason to have that.

And then, by the way, of course, they don't do anything to stop it.

Yeah.

They just let it go.

It's all the George Floyd one was fascinating because it wasn't a setup.

It was just an organic moment where someone was filming some guy who had a guy lean.

Now, was he on his neck or was he on his shoulder?

Because I keep hearing people online saying he was on his shoulder.

Maybe, maybe, that might be right.

The thing is, on the neck,

you're really going to go out.

You're going to go to sleep.

You know, if the guy's really pressuring your neck like that, you're going to like anybody who thinks that's not a big deal, get someone who knows how to put weight on the knee, leaning on your neck.

Okay, he's right on the neck.

No question at all.

Okay, that will put you to sleep for the most part.

And that will definitely constrict your breathing, depending upon how much weight he actually has on that neck and how strong George Floyd is.

Now, imagine this guy's already fucked up.

He already has an enlarged heart.

He's on fentanyl.

He's already fucked up.

But would he have died without this happening?

Well, from what I understand, there were two autoxes.

People want to say it was an overdose.

Well,

you know, it's certainly he had poor health because of drug abuse, and it certainly must have contributed to it.

But are you saying that that wouldn't have a giant effect on someone in poor health?

Like, if you did that to an old man with emphysema, if you had some guy who's been smoking cigarettes for 50 years and you got on his neck, he could fucking die right there.

Whereas if he didn't, if you didn't get on his neck, he'd probably live alone.

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Right, and you can't say it was the smoking that killed him if you, if it was that, right?

You remember Eric Gardner?

It was another one.

Yeah.

Eric Gardner, people were saying, you know, he died because he's fat and he had a heart attack.

I was like, no, dude, that guy's choking him.

Yeah.

And if you don't think that guy's choking him, let me grab your neck like that.

You don't think that's a choke?

Yeah.

Oh, because it's one arm?

I'll put you to sleep with one arm.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You could put someone to sleep.

I've watched UFC fighters get put to sleep.

Professional fighters get put to sleep with one arm.

Professional world champion Sean Brady choked out Leon Edwards for the most part with a one-arm guillotine.

And Luke Rockhold got

one-armed guillotine.

Yeah.

Peter Ortiz got somebody with that.

The one-arm guillotine is legit.

That's a good thing.

And anybody who's like, if anybody who like knows what they're doing, it was grappling anyone who doesn't know what they're doing, they could all one-arm choke you out.

Yeah,

they were saying, oh, he just restrained him.

Like, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no.

When you restrain someone, you get their arms behind their back, you pin their weight down.

You could just restrain the guy.

If you're a good jiu-jitsu practitioner with your body weight, if you have a good, you're on top.

He's face down.

You put your hooks in.

He's not going anywhere.

You flatten him out.

You underhook him.

You pull his arms out.

Someone cuffs him.

You don't choke him.

You don't have to choke him.

The guy wasn't resisting at all.

So that was another one, right?

But these are real moments.

These are organic moments.

They're not setups, but boy, are they good at capitalizing on those fucking things.

And then when you see public officials going with this swarm of narrative, the swarm of narrative was defund the police.

Like, are you guys out of your fucking mind?

In the middle of these riots, you're going to go against the police instead of going against the rioters?

You got one bad cop.

That bad cop should be prosecuted or something should happen.

He should be, you know,

if the guy died of an overdose, at the very least, what he's doing seems to be brutal and unnecessary.

Yeah, yeah.

Unnecessary and brutal.

The guy's not resisting.

You put your, you put your weight on his back.

It's hard enough.

It's so hard to get up if someone has their fucking knee on your back.

It's so hard to get up, especially if you're out of shape and you have an enlarged heart and you're on fentanyl.

Now, there's also seven cops around him.

And he wasn't, I mean, I've watched the whole body cam footage.

He was a, he was clearly fucked up and he was clearly having like a massive panic attack.

Yeah.

But he wasn't like

being like violent with the cops.

Like he wasn't like a, he He wasn't a threat for that many cops.

Cops get so desensitized, and you have so many experiences with one individual.

This guy had a long criminal record.

People that work that area probably all knew him.

Didn't Derek Chauvin and him work together somewhere?

Yeah,

I remember hearing that.

Security deal with the other thing.

Yeah,

they were doing some security deed together.

I think so.

But, yeah.

So it's probably some get back involved in that knee on the neck.

Right.

Quite possibly.

It's also one of those things where, like, it is, look, most of the time someone won't die if you do that.

You know what I mean?

Not all the time.

Yeah, exactly.

But there is.

Most of the time someone's not filming it.

Yes.

That's a big thing.

That's also true.

And if the body cam footage comes out, it's usually much later.

So it's not kind of like as a media, but a thing.

Also, usually every single media outlet in the entire United States of America in the middle of a lockdown doesn't play the video on repeat all day, every single day.

Because there was no reason.

The thing about George Floyd that was crazy is that there was no reason for it to be a national story, and there was no reason for it to be a racial story.

Wait, wait a minute, really?

Why don't you think there would be no reason for it to be a national story when a cop kills

me for a false $20 bill?

No, no, no.

When I say that...

Okay, I'm not saying there's no story there.

I'm saying there wasn't, we're a country of 330 million people.

There are a number of these incidents that happen every year.

Not like a crazy high number, but like there's a few hundred of these every year.

This one kind of seemed to get picked as like we're all going to run with this right now.

Because we got the full video.

We got a four minute video.

It's like go back to Rodney King.

It's the same thing.

Yeah, I guess, okay, that is a fair point.

The Rodney King one was a...

a bit different.

I mean, number one, the video element then was way crazier because it was nobody had ever seen a video.

There's a guy with a giant thing who happens to be on his balcony at the right right time.

And also, they beat the ever-loving shit out of him.

Yeah, I mean, they were just after he was down and tell you, they just kept going and kept going.

But the other thing that I always thought was like,

you kind of, the George Floyd thing, it's not like there was like any element in there where like...

They were calling him the N-word or there was some type of like racial like thing.

Like it didn't ever seem to me that there was any reason to believe that like had he been a giant white dude tweaking out on drugs doing the exact same thing it wouldn't have gone the exact same way right but he wasn't the thing is it is a white it is post Rodney King it is a white guy on the neck of a black guy but there was also an Asian cop and a black cop and yeah but they weren't doing the kneeling and they also got prosecuted that's a fair point that is a fair point didn't they get prosecuted I he he got convicted of murder I do not remember the Asian cop got prosecuted as well see

what other cops got prosecuted I think it's one of those things where you're just supposed to step in and say

you got to get off his back.

I think that's totally reasonable.

I mean, yeah, that's, you know, to be like, hey, listen, he is totally.

The thing is, like, I want to know, was he on his neck the whole time?

Because I had heard that he was also, he was on his shoulder.

And then, but that is on his neck.

Yeah, I'd have to go watch that horrible video over again.

And I don't want to do that.

I was.

Oh, it's dark.

I was watching some horrible videos today from Gaza.

This guy carrying around a headless baby showing what happened to his child.

It's just so fucked.

Another guy was holding a child's arm in his hand.

Dude, it is so.

I mean, so

the level of evil that this shit is.

I mean, you see, I know you've seen it, but you see the drone videos, like the aerial footage of Gaza.

Gaza's gone.

It's gone.

They fucking destroyed the whole goddamn place.

I saw one.

It's hard to believe.

I saw one estimate said that it was 90%

of the population has been.

what's the word I'm looking for?

That they've been

displaced.

Yeah.

90% of them are.

10%.

Yeah, I know it's there.

I know it's only there.

I'm good.

Find that guy and train him.

That's your Rambo.

But it is

three of the cops were found guilty of violating his rights, and one other one got pled guilty to aiding and abetting second-degree murder manslaughter.

Yeah, that was the Asian guy.

He got three and a half years.

Jesus.

All right.

Aiding and abetting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you kind of have, you're a cop.

You kind of have a responsibility to stop that.

And then there's also the level of fentanyl.

We've discussed this, right?

Because people keep saying that he died of a fentanyl overdose.

But I don't believe the level of fentanyl in his body was enough to give him an overdose.

You know how LD50

rates work?

You know how that works?

No, I.

Lethal dose for 50% of the population.

That's how they determine whether or not that's right.

So the problem is, you know, you get 100 people, give them all the same amount of stuff.

50 of them are going to die.

50 of them are going to to live.

So that's how you find what the LD50 of a drug is.

So when you have something like fentanyl, this is a guy who's like an inveterate fentanyl user.

You know, he probably has a very high tolerance to opiates.

You know, and I don't think he's.

And he's huge.

He's a big dude.

He's a big dude.

He was obviously dying from drug abuse.

He had an enlarged heart.

He was fucked up.

And

the levels, though, when they

were like at the threshold.

Not the official autopsy, but this is the doctor that did one of them, I think.

And he said here, I don't know if you can read that, but.

Yeah, nanogram, fentanyl at 11 nanograms, so deciliter.

This is the, this is higher than chronic pain patient.

If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be accepted.

Call on overdose.

Deaths have been certified.

I don't know what that says.

Level of three.

So level of three.

He was at 11.

So deaths have been certified at a level of three

nanograms per deciliter.

He was at 11 nanograms per deciliter.

I am not saying this killed him.

Fentanyl metabolite, 4 AMPP.

Think this is non-commercial.

Meta

meth.

Meth.

19.

Oh, he had meth too.

19 nanograms per deciliter.

This is

relatively low.

Relatively low.

Method is bad for your heart.

But Meth's bad for your heart.

From video I've seen, it appears like his knee is on the side of the neck, not where the

structures are.

That doesn't mean anything.

That's silly.

That's a person who's never been choked.

You shut your mouth.

Shut your mouth, doctor.

Let me lean on your neck, bitch.

Breathe deep.

Yeah, right.

What are you talking about?

That's so crazy.

That's not going to crush his windpipe.

Yeah.

What are you talking about?

No, that just seems really good.

That's so stupid.

He crushes everything.

If I got on your neck here, you're not doing nothing.

There's none of this is going to work.

Look,

when you have a big neck, you can die from your tongue.

You know that?

People die of sleep apnea, like football players.

Big old.

They swallow their tongue?

No, their tongue closes over the back of their mouth because they have so much neck tissue that their air hold gets smaller, right?

Now, I want you to imagine someone compressing that neck tissue with 210 pounds of body weight all positioned on their knee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bro, you can put someone to sleep that way.

Yeah.

Like they'll die.

If you hold on to it, they'll die.

It's indefensible.

And it's crazy.

And the, the, and I think the country had kind of like the appropriate reaction to it.

But then they're trying to say that cops can't use chokeholds anymore.

Well, that's crazy, too.

Because you should be able to.

If you're a cop, you got to be able to choke people.

Like, if you get some wild, methed up fucking dude and he's attacking cops and he's got his shirt off and fucking swastikas on his chest and he you want to strangle that guy.

Put him away.

Put him asleep.

Then you can cuff him.

You can do that.

Go to sleep.

In fact, it might be

a much safer way than like tasing someone and then where they stiffen up and just fall over.

If he just choked George Floyd out and then cuffed him, that would be way better for everybody.

Like a real simple five-second rear-naked choke.

He goes to sleep.

temporarily, you cuff him, he wakes up, none of the trauma to his neck, none of that shit,

none of the four minutes, whatever it was, seconds.

No nationwide riots.

No nationwide riots.

It's a very good thing.

Maybe there would have been for a different reason.

It's just a jiu-jitsu move, and then you cuff him, and, you know.

But man, being a cop is the most fucking thankless, psychotic job in this country.

And every day they pull up to cars and they worry that they're going to get shot.

Everybody's seen videos of cops.

They pull up to fucking tinted windows and they get blasted.

Yeah, I just saw one today.

There's so many of them.

And it was crazy.

The one I saw today, too, was one where, like, there was almost no tell.

Like, it was only they had to stop and they were just like, hey, you know, buddy, is this your car?

And he's like, yeah, it's my car.

And he seemed totally cool.

And they're just like, okay, license and registration.

He goes, I actually don't have my license on me.

And he goes, you're driving without a license?

All right, sir.

I'm going to have to ask you to step out of that.

And then just comes out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, shooting at him and shoots one of the cops.

The other one gets behind the car, starts shooting back.

It's like, yeah, no, listen, I get that's got to be a crazy thing.

To, you know, it's like,

I remember hearing a baseball player say once that he was like, uh, he goes, the toughest thing about being like

in the outfield is that like every single, if you think about the game, like every single pitch, you got to immediately like be like, oh, is it coming to me?

Right.

And then it's just like, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, is, you know, like, you got to like be ready for that one time where like it is coming to you.

And I'd imagine there's something like that with a cop strike.

Every routine traffic stop, you've got to be a little bit concerned about that.

On the other hand, that is the job and there are expectations when you're, you know, if your salary is paid by the people's taxes and like you, the standard has to be probably the same thing I think the standard for fighting wars should be.

The standard should just always be, do you absolutely have to do this?

You know, like if you don't have to Eric Gardner.

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There's no safe like SimplySafe situation.

Yes, like you have to do this.

He's selling Lucy.

Okay, he's selling Lucy's.

Okay, there's got to be stuff.

I understand.

Tell him not to do that.

Right.

And I understand, like, maybe there's like human beings could get very creative, man.

We could find, I understand what you're saying.

Okay, okay, there's the guy inside the store has to, you know, sell cigarettes with the tax on them.

He gets to sell these loosey cigarettes.

It's hurting this guy's business.

And maybe he's asked him to leave and he hasn't.

We're talking about selling loose cigarettes outside of a store.

You just don't need to bring this level of violence

for this situation.

And, you know, it's one of the things like

I know I saw you were talking about the other day.

with the Trump deportation stuff, where there's like this very,

it's an interesting moment that we're in right now because you have, if you remember in Trump's first term, this was one of the biggest kind of like

controversies that he lost a lot of public support over was the kids in cages thing.

And okay, now they, you know.

Turns out they'd always put kids in cages.

Yes, yes.

They were built under the Obama administration.

It was kind of bullshit.

They took some pictures of a kid crying that wasn't even really about the Trump deportations.

Like, you know, the media lies.

That's what they do.

but there is something about you know like in the uh in the civil rights movement you know Martin Luther King and those guys they picked Birmingham Alabama like they knew what they were doing and they were they knew that they were gonna get this reaction and that then it could be on TV.

And they almost forced the American people to watch these young black men in suits and ties have fire hoses and dogs sicked on them.

And even for the 1960s American person who maybe harbored like some significant degree of prejudice,

even for them, just seeing that was like, oh, Jesus, like, I can't support that.

You know what I mean?

And there is something with, you know, the

U.S.

has had

just an insane immigration policy really since 1965.

But I mean, the Biden immigration, it was just like the most insane policy.

Joe Biden seems to me like his, at least part of his legacy, is he moved the country further right on immigration than you could have imagined.

It's now super majorities of the American people support mass deportations.

But

just like there's a difference between being a little bit racist against black people and being able to watch...

you know, cops unleash German shepherds on black dudes in suits and ties.

It's one thing to kind of believe, I think the people who are here illegally got to go back.

It's It's another thing to like watch it unfold and see what type of, and I'll just say this, like on the theme of what I was saying, like earlier about the signal stuff, you know, there were so many efforts to like sabotage Donald Trump's first presidency.

In this moment, if you really want to see mass deportations, which by the way, we are not seeing, but if you really want to see that, as most Americans do,

You've finally won the argument.

You've finally won the day.

You've now got super majorities of the American people on your side and you've elected a president.

This is his signature issue.

The last thing you would want to do is go round up 234 of them with no due process and send them to the most notorious brutal prison in El Salvador.

And get some of them wrong.

Like, what the fuck are you thinking?

And get some of them wrong.

Yeah.

And that, that's, and the thing is, you're saying there haven't been mass deportations.

What do you mean by that?

I mean in large numbers.

Like,

there have been deportations.

They've already kind of slowed down.

But we have tens of millions of illegal immigrants in the country.

Right, but that's not what they're looking for.

What they're looking for is the criminals.

And here's the, allegedly, right?

This is what we're hoping.

But here's the problem that bothers me, quotas.

I had a friend who was a cop who would tell me about quotas for speeding tickets back when they weren't supposed to tell people about that.

They have quotas.

Right.

And I said, so it's basically like being a glorified revenue collector.

And he's like, pretty much.

Pretty much.

If I'm not writing tickets, you know,

it's going to come down on me.

Like, imagine a day where everybody made a decision.

Like, for the next 60 days collectively as a country, no one's going to violate any traffic laws.

Everyone's going to stop to a complete halt at every stop sign.

No one's going to go a mile an hour above the speed limit.

What happens?

What do these cops do?

If you have quotas, so you're assuming that people will always break the law forever.

And if they don't, do you adjust?

Do you fire the cops?

Do you cut your budget?

What do you do?

Do you remember when this happened in New York City?

It was over a decade ago.

They had this unofficial, official police slowdown where they were upset about us.

I can't remember the exact story, but it was, the head of the police union said that he was like, we will only be

enforcing like violent crimes.

It was not doing stop and stuff.

Yes.

It was over the stop and frisk controversy.

And they were kind of like, oh, you guys want to all call us racist?

Which already I thought was so hilarious.

I used to have a joke in my act about this many years ago, but where it was just like, that was the threat from cops.

It was like, we're only going to arrest violent criminals.

And you're like, that's probably what you should be doing to begin with.

And so then, like, all these, and everything was fine, by the way.

There wasn't a rise in violent crime.

It was just, they just stopped doing it.

But revenue started collapsing.

And then they like whipped the cops into getting back to it.

Like, they were like threatening their pensions and shit.

And they were like, yo, you cannot do this.

You've got to keep policing for profit.

Isn't that crazy?

Policing for profit.

It's crazy.

It's crazy that they write tickets.

Like, tickets are kind of nuts.

You know, it's like you have to give us money because you went too fast.

Well, I've always,

everyone agrees it's going to work.

God, I got another ticket.

Yeah.

Fuck.

I always thought, like,

you're going to stop speeding.

No, I'm going to get a radar detector.

Yeah.

Well, right.

People find a way.

I always thought there was something really unfair.

Um, that

some, I've heard some progressives talk about this, but it never seemed to like get that much traction.

traction.

But there is something about like giving a ticket that's like,

you know,

what it just seems so regressive in terms of like

it's so much more punitive toward poor people and working class people than it is toward the well.

And it's the same number for all of that.

You know what I mean?

Like there's something about it.

No, not even the rich people.

I know.

This is the problem is that progressives will take that and go, oh, okay, so that means up it on the rich people.

It's like, no, that's not what I'm saying.

Tax the rich.

But, like, you know,

you hand out a $75 ticket to somebody who's making like $400 a week, and you're like, Jesus Christ, dude, like, that is devastating to that person.

Yeah.

Whereas, like, you hand out a $75 ticket to like a rich person, it's kind of like, okay.

Yeah.

You know, that's a reasonable

punishment for that.

I mean, you know, anyway, listen, I'm not advocating.

I'm not a leftist.

I don't care about equity.

It is.

No, that's not a good idea.

But it is a strange thing that there are revenue collectors who are also peace officers.

Like, it seems like that should be a completely different thing.

Yeah.

It seems like cops shouldn't be pulling people over because your fucking taillight's out.

That seems silly.

That seems like a totally different proposition.

Yep.

Yeah.

No, I can't remember.

The problem is they pull people over for doing stupid shit, and a large percent of them are carrying drugs.

A lot of them have fucking bricks in the back of their car.

That's the craziest thing about guys who are trafficking drugs.

They're trafficking like fucking 30 pounds of fentanyl and they get pulled over for speed.

For some speed

or something like that.

Oh, dude.

They're coked up and they're fucking driving fast and they got a trunk full of fucking illegal guns and cocaine and meth.

And why aren't you going so slow and cautious?

Why aren't you using your blinker?

You should be listening to country music on your radio.

You got meth to get somewhere.

You should have a fucking cat diesel hat on.

You should be nice and calm and slow.

You're a regular guy just going about your day.

Well, by definition, these people aren't making the wisest decisions, probably.

You get to drive your fucking car filled with meth.

You got to get a crazy diesel.

It's not as easy as you'd think.

You really got to, you can't, and you can't just put a Craigslist ad up or whatever.

Like, I'm sure you got to go through some sketchy channels.

And now there's a Tom Holman guy sending everybody across the border.

You can't even get the Mexicans to do it anymore.

Jesus.

I mean, that guy is...

It is funny where like he's, I get where he's kind of like the guy you'd want if you're like, we're a hard, we got it.

We need a hard ass in here to do this but when you do start getting these concerns about due process I mean his response it was in some interview where they were asking him about due process for the people he's deporting and he's like um

uh what's the girl where was it good due process for Lake and Riley for Lake and Riley where was the due process for her and you're like yeah but dude that's not what due process means you gotta like obviously murder victims don't get due process that's why it's illegal to murder somebody and even by the way in that case her killer got due process and then got convicted of murder.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's the whole point.

And there's just, again, like I was saying, it seems there's a few moves that the Trump administration has made so far.

And I don't know who is in his ear and who has convinced him to pursue this policy.

But like, again, if you wanted to pursue like mass deportations, which I understand, I think there's a strong case.

I mean, look, he's done a great job of stopping the flow, which was job number one.

And that was his best line at his State of the Union, where it was like the Democrats kept saying we needed legislation to close the border.

Turns out we just needed a new president, which is shockingly true.

Like, it is unbelievable how it went from record-high border crossings under Biden to record-low border crossings over Donald Trump.

And I do think that so much of that is just that it's a real difficult journey.

And if people feel like, oh, Trump's in there, obviously we're not going to be allowed in, and they just won't go through it.

I also do think that Donald Trump is fundamentally correct with his idea that like you don't have a nation if you don't have borders.

Like you can't, listen,

the idea, at least, I'm not saying this is really how it works, but the idea is that we're a free country because we have self-government.

And in other words, the American people get to decide how many people we bring in here and how many we don't.

And that it's at this point, nobody actually knows the number for sure, but it is north of 30 million illegal immigrants in the country.

But my God, if you wanted to wait, to start deporting people who are legal residents, who are not violent criminals, because they wrote a pro-Palestinian op-ed, you're diving into the most contentious issue and then picking one side of that.

And then, like, this just seems like it's almost as if you're trying to poison the possibility to ever really have mass deportations.

It just seems so counterproductive by his own stated goals.

And

there's so many layers of it that are hard to unpack for the average person.

What's really hard to unpack, especially for like tried and true blue no-matter who Democrats, is this idea that they were bringing people into this country, moving them into swing states, getting them on Social Security, giving them money and incentives and all sorts of government programs that would get them eventually to be voters.

Yeah.

And these voters would vote for that party and you'd have a unit party.

So in that sense,

that's the big one that a lot of people that are left-wing people have a really hard time swallowing.

They don't believe that's true.

And they'll take you to, well, what about when Texas sent those people up to New York?

You know, the governor of Texas sent people to New York.

Right.

But do you know that New York's not a swing state?

Yeah, he did that.

But why did he do that?

He did that as a big fuck you to New York for.

For the government to turning a blind eye to the problem at the border and saying, okay, you think this isn't a problem?

I'm going to send this problem to you.

It was sanctuary.

You have a sanctuary city.

You have a sanctuary city?

Oh, that's cute.

I'll send you thousands and thousands of people that you're going to have to take care of now.

And they did.

And then that's even weirder because then they took over fucking luxury hotels and they had to deal with it.

I think it was it, Pakistan owns one of those hotels.

Oh, is that?

Who owns the

big one that was in that fucking Jennifer Lopez movie where she was a hot maid?

Remember that movie?

Maid in Manhattan?

I never saw it, but I vaguely remember that.

I watched it recently with my family.

It's the most ridiculous thing.

She's on 10.

She's just like this poor little sad maid.

Pakistan International Airlines has owned the structure.

They own the Roosevelt.

So the Roosevelt is an iconic hotel in New York City, and they get paid by the federal government, or they did get paid by the federal government to house

immigrants there.

And they give them food, and they give them money.

They give them, and they're like, what are you doing?

Like, if you're allowing these people to vote in regional elections, okay, you've essentially now you've bought regional elections, and if you want them to eventually become United States citizens and give them a pathway to citizenship, which all good people would want, Dave Smith, okay, now you have voters.

And if you do that en masse, which they did, they brought people in this.

They invited people, helped people.

The Red Cross was like giving them maps.

Like, this is how you do it.

They had stops along the way.

We give them water and walk right through and everybody just gets to be on a bus and you get shipped off to swing states.

That literally happened.

And people on the left do not want to address it.

They want to deny it.

It was an attempt to take over.

Yeah.

And look, I'll say, I just, I know this because I'm like, you know, this is, I guess, that one of the benefits of like getting older and paying attention to this shit is like, I can remember shit from 15, 20 years ago.

Like, I was paying attention then.

And I remember all of them admitting this was their plan.

Like, literally, all of that, Joy Reed and Rachel Maddow and all, they used to call it the Browning of America.

And they used to openly brag about how the Democrat will have super permanent majorities forever because look like hey you old dying white Republicans like sorry that's it for you because the Latinos vote overwhelmingly for Democrat and we're going to be a majority minority country and then a majority Hispanic country and then the Democrats rule the day forever so this is just you know Mitt Romney or whoever's running for president right now this is the dying throes of the end of a but then

When people started objecting to that policy and they they called it the Browning of America and then when people objected to it they would call it the great replacement or whatever and then they'd go you're not allowed to say that that means you're a Nazi and you're like but I just heard you saying it like five years ago I heard you saying it can't use the term replacement yeah and it was and so there was this weird and then there was also the uh one of the other big tells of this was the way they attempted which really failed but the way they attempted to make voter ID like a toxic racist policy which was so I mean the logic of it just collapses on itself because if it's, first of all, it seems like some bigotry of low expectations to imply that black people are like, just can't figure out how to get ID.

Do you remember Kathy Hochel saying that they don't know what computers are?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Do you remember that happening?

That is the craziest thing.

I think you said

every fucking human being has a computer in their pocket.

Dude, what was the black dude who made that video?

It was the funniest goddamn.

I think you sent it to me, but he was like, there was like a computer and who comes in and just like dancing around it.

And he's like trying to like trying to bite it and stuff too.

It was so goddamn funny where you're like, That's literally what you're saying.

Like, I don't know.

And it's like spliced, like on the left side of it, is her explaining that black people don't look at it.

Black inner city kids, they don't know what a computer is.

Well, but then, I mean, like, just you know, just like using the most basic logic, you'd be like, Okay, wait a minute, but like, so if requiring ID is racist, then like we got some other really big problems in this country that we should be looking at.

Like, well, not only that, but it's in the direct memory, the recent memory of everybody needing ID because you had to prove that you got the COVID vaccine.

Right, right, yeah.

And then that was fine.

Somehow that.

And when that, by the way, disproportionately affected minorities,

no progressives seemed to care about that.

No.

That it was overwhelmingly black people, wildly disproportionately black people and immigrants who just refused the vaccine.

By the way, let the record show they were smarter than everybody else for doing it.

You know who else?

Me and you?

PhDs.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That is an interesting detail, isn't it?

Overwhelmingly,

overwhelmingly skeptical about this new vaccine.

And here, me and you got called out by Anthony Fauci and Joe Biden for fucking being right, for being absolutely right.

It's so wild, too, that that was only three years ago or four years ago when you said that your advice to young people was to just be really healthy.

And that was like a national controversy that you just like, I mean, just think about how upside down it is.

It was also people doing the man's job for the man.

It was everybody piled on.

Like everybody, and especially once you got the shot yourself, you're like, I did the right thing because you knew it was risky.

You fucking know it was risky.

On some level, too.

Absolutely.

It's medication.

Anytime you get medication, you know it's risky.

Anytime you get some pharmaceutical drug in your system, not to mention some completely novel new way where it turns your entire body into a vaccine or an immunity-producing

spike protein factory.

By the way, which is the most toxic aspect of getting the disease is the spike protein.

So your body's going to produce it itself.

What?

PhDs were like,

I don't know.

And it was also way past,

way, way, way past the point where we had already figured out that like, if you weren't very old and very sick, this was, you statistically had almost no chance of like a series of people.

And more importantly, we had very long ago realized it wasn't a threat at all to kids.

So there was no justification whatsoever to force kids to get vaccinated.

And yet we did it.

And California did it.

They did it to schools.

They did it everywhere.

And the fact that they pulled that off, and then a couple years later, they're like, you don't need ID to vote.

Why do you need an ID to vote?

That's racist.

In California, you're not allowed to show ID.

You're not allowed to show ID.

So like, come on.

I mean, listen, obviously, this is, and like, there's there's a reason for all of this.

It's not, they didn't just pick showing your ID voting and decide to make this the issue that they harped on and tried to pretend you were somehow racist or you were somehow infringing on voting rights by requiring an ID.

And so look, like

this did

a couple things happened.

Number one, it totally turned public opinion against this level of crazy immigration.

And number two, I mean, Donald Trump ended up winning a bigger percentage of the Latino vote than I believe any Republican in my life, which is really...

I mean.

Especially after Tony Inchcliffe.

That's pretty wild.

I think Tony Anchcliffe, he might have gotten him more votes.

Listen, nobody takes a joke better than Puerto Ricans.

By the way, there is something really funny about that where,

and this has been a theme for

years in the country, but really Tony was a great example of it.

But where, like,

you know, for all their talk about diversity and anti-racism and all of this, what they always seem to do is try to impose white lady values on minorities.

You know what I mean?

Like, just imagine.

You know who's a great way to put it, white lady values.

It's always white lady values.

It's always, you know, who's really offended by a joke?

Well, as we both know, Joe, as professional comedians for many years, you know, black people just get very offended by jokes.

No, they fucking don't.

That's white women.

That's white women women shit.

That's not Latinos or African Americans.

They're the ones who take a joke the best.

Especially a good joke.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also like the more offensive, the better.

Like they love that shit.

By and large, like there's exceptions.

Well, there's exceptions for sure.

But Puerto Ricans are known.

Like if you grow up around Puerto Ricans, they're fun and they talk a lot of shit.

Yes.

It's part of the culture.

Yep.

So it's like you're trying to, you know, there's something about it that was always like, it's always, the liberal push for diversity is always like, we want different shades of people in our culture.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Like it was never like, there was never a thing where it's like, oh, we're going to go into the hood and we're going to adopt your culture.

Like that's not what we're talking about.

Which is why they hate black Republicans.

Yep.

That's a big, a big part of it.

That's a problem.

They go after black Republicans so hard.

Even harder, I think, than they go after a lot of white Republicans.

Oh, in some cases, much more viciously.

Yeah.

I mean, and I think by, you know, we talked about Candace Owens before.

That's part of what her freaking, you know, boot camp before pissing off all the Israeli supporters was, is that she's already been through the fire.

Yeah.

She's been an outspoken black female conservative.

And that's like, they really hate that because they do kind of view you as like, which is fucked up in a way, but it really is kind of like you're, they decided that they're the champion of women and black people.

And therefore, if you're a black woman, it's your responsibility to support these liberal white women.

She used to.

That's the thing that she went to.

She went from being.

She was very young.

She was liberal.

And then she was also a hardcore Zionist at one point, like very big supporter of Israel, and then changed her mind on that.

But it is, you know, there is a viciousness with which those people get attacked.

I do think, and I still, I think I said this the last time we were on,

the last time I was on, but I still do think that in many ways that's the best part of Donald Trump winning again is just the cultural phenomenon of it, where it does seem like there's been a big rejection of all of that shit.

You know,

I had dinner with

Darrell last night, with

Daryl Cooper, and with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton.

And we were talking a little bit about this, but like

what happened, first of all, I let the record show for both good and bad, I was promoting Darrell Cooper before everybody else was.

I was the first guy.

Maybe not the first, but I was like, yo, this guy's podcast is amazing.

And it really, really is.

But there was something so interesting about like his Tucker appearance, the backlash against it, the fact that it did absolutely nothing to harm him.

And his podcast just shot up on all the charts.

And now more people than ever are listening to his stuff.

There is like, and I do, I've seen a lot of this, and I've gotten into some arguments with some, like Konstantin Kassin, I've argued with him about this.

I respect him very much.

I like him a lot.

I think he's very smart.

But there are like,

there, there are these woke tactics now that are being used by many people

who have been opposing wokeism for a very long time.

And I think it's interesting how much people have woken up to that, no pun intended, but how much people like kind of recognize that now.

And that stuff has just been rejected.

And even like on the most basic level.

The thing, first of all, the fact that there was such an outrage for what Daryl Cooper said on Tucker Carlson's podcast already proves the point.

It already proves the point that you're like, yo, this is insane.

This is insane that this, like, you're not even, you can't even, like, have a conversation about these things without this massive pylon.

Not only that, these pejoratives that get

stuck on him, that got stuck on me for platforming him.

I read Joe Rogan had a Nazi apologist and Holocaust denier.

Well, or skeptic.

I think they said Holocaust skeptic.

I forget what term they use, but none of those things are true.

And none of them, I mean, he's got this big, I'm very excited for it, but he's putting together this big piece on World War II.

And, like, none of them are going to come back and go, oh, yeah, I got it wrong.

I apologize.

No, they're totally not doing that at all.

If they were, they would have listened to Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem.

Well,

I said this to Constantine when we were arguing about it on Twitter.

And I go, listen, dude, I go, listen, just take, I called it my non-woke challenge.

I go, take my non-woke challenge, okay?

All it takes is an hour of your time.

Listen to the first 30 minutes of Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, and then listen to the 30 minutes in the, like,

he put out another piece after it.

I forget the title of it, but it took from the history where Fear and Loathing left off up to like the 80s.

And there was a,

it started like around, or maybe it was part of Fear and Loathing.

But anyway, he had a half hour chunk that was on the Jews suffering in World War II.

And I was like, so listen to these two half hours, and you tell me if it is conceivably possible that a Jew-hating Nazi sympathizer could have ever put this out because it's impossible.

Like impossible.

And he goes, I have listened to it.

And I was like, oh, well, then we can't talk anymore, Matt.

Not in general, but I was like, we can't talk about this anymore.

But I think there's something almost more simple that was like, look, if you listen to what Daryl said on Tucker's podcast, he essentially goes, he goes, you know, I say this sometimes to get a rise out of my buddy.

He's like an Anglo-Saxon.

And I'm kind of being hyperbolic when I say it, but I kind of say it to prod.

But in some ways, I think Churchill was the real villain of the war.

Now, he didn't commit the most atrocities.

I'm not saying he was the worst person there, but I think he's primarily responsible for this not being maybe like a little conflict in Poland and turning into like the big bloodbath that it did.

Okay, say whatever you will about that.

There's a fair argument to be there.

I tend to think Daryl's right, but maybe I'm, maybe he's not.

But every single person who repeated that would go, he said Churchill was the real villain.

And you're like, you know what, dude, we're not doing that anymore.

Like, we're just, we're not very fine people on both sides in this whole thing.

Like, come on, dude.

No, that's not what he fucking said.

And you could take out all that other conduct.

But any honest person looking at that just goes, like, no, that's not what he said.

And, you know, in, and I was on Pierce Morgan's show.

One more shout out to Pierce, but even when he played the clip, he cut out all that context and just played the part where he says the real villain

was Churchill.

And you're like, I think people have, after so many years of this being the constant tactic to like, like, it's like, there's a, there's a giant rejection of that.

And I think that's really good.

And I think a lot of that has to do with Trump winning.

Again, I mean, there's other factors involved too.

But I do just think it's like these woke tactics of like where you call everyone who disagrees with you a racist or a bigot or this is just not like we're not playing that game anymore.

Or at least it seems like most people aren't playing that game anymore.

Yeah, it's not going to work anymore.

And the people that are, have their minds made up, that have just knee-jerk reaction, are going to decide someone's a Nazi or someone's a Hitler apologist.

They're not looking into it at all anyway.

They have this cursory examination of the headline.

Good enough.

I'm going to run with it and I'm going to argue with it.

There's always going to be people like that.

But the majority of people are like, what is this all about?

What did he actually say?

Well, let me listen to his show.

And then his show shoots up to number one.

You know, and it shot up to number one again after he was on my podcast.

The same kind of thing.

It's like, it's a fucking great show.

It's a great show.

And it's not just great about Israel.

It's not just great about World War II.

His fucking thing on Jim Jones is insane.

It's so good.

It's so good.

It's so insane.

And he does that with everything.

And he has empathy and compassion and

a general desire to empathize and see

how someone could join this cult, how Jim Jones can turn from this guy who was a civil rights leader.

Yeah, he was a civil rights leader in the 1950s.

I mean, this guy was living in a time where he had adopted a black child and was persecuted all throughout town because of it and was

genuinely like a real Christian.

Then he's hopped up on myth.

He's out of his fucking mind.

Now he's in Guyana and he's got a whole group of people with him.

He talks them all into killing themselves.

And the ones who don't, he kills them.

And yeah, it's a crazy tragedy.

But what Daryl Cooper does is long-form

editorial,

like you have to look at it from an editorial aspect because it's opinion, but it's also information that he's citing these sources and he's like, put yourself in these people's shoes, which is what he does.

Which is essentially his only demand.

Through all of his work, his only demand is like, listen, you have to, if you're going to listen to my work, you have to do your absolute best to put yourself in these persons' shoes and then put yourself in the other side's shoes.

Fear and loathing in New Jerusalem starts out with Jews being persecuted.

Imagine these people are your neighbors.

And he brings you through this horrific scenario that absolutely did happen to some of the people there.

And you don't, it's cool the way he does.

I mean, I don't spoil our alert or whatever.

It's just the beginning, but it's so good.

But like, you almost don't know what he's talking about at first.

You're like, is this a Palestinian getting?

fucked over?

Is this a...

Because the story is about, you know, going in, this is going to be about the creation of the state of Israel or whatever.

But then you realize like, oh, no, this is a Jew in Eastern Europe going through a pogrom.

And I will say this, right?

As somebody who

is

fairly well-read on the subject, compared to like the layman, not compared to Daryl Cooper.

There's levels to this shit.

It's like, I used to think Rich Franklin was the best striker in the world, and then Anderson Silva fought him, and you were like, oh, okay, he is not.

By the way, Rich Franklin was great, but Anderson Silva was amazing.

But listening to that series,

it made me much more sympathetic to the Israelis, if I'm being honest.

And I know I've heard that from other people too.

But it does, because Daryl insists on doing that.

Like, look, it's real, it's easy.

Now,

I'm not saying this is an excuse for anything.

Like, the Nakba in 1947, 1948 is horrible.

It was a giant ethnic cleansing campaign, you know?

Okay.

But if you do put this into context, you know, like the years 1947.

Okay, first of all, just think about like even the attitudes of 1947 that you know of, like, you know, just in terms of racism and things like that, like very different attitudes in 1947.

Also, you're two years removed from the end of World War II, where the,

quote, good guys in the story are, or the winners in the story, are like

Truman, who just firebombed Tokyo, dropped two nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the bombing of Dresden, the bombing of Berlin.

Joseph Stalin is in the process as this is happening, as this is happening, of ethnically cleansing millions of ethnic Germans all throughout Eastern Europe.

This is only a couple years after Stalin's army raped their way through Europe.

You know what I mean?

And then, of course, there's the atrocities of the Nazis, and you're the Jewish people who just went through this Holocaust.

And all of this is in the background.

And you're going to say, you're telling me we can't move a few hundred thousand people off their land to create our new state?

Like, who's going to fucking morally lecture us about doing this little thing here?

You know, and like, I'm not saying any of that excuses it.

And it wasn't the Palestinians' fault that any of that happened.

And so like, you, but, like, it is worthwhile.

Like, that's what doing history should be, right?

It should be like understanding that these were real human beings.

These aren't cartoon monsters.

Now, they may have done monstrous shit, but like, there was something, you know, going on there.

And there was kind of like, you know,

it's, I think it's just beneficial to understand all of that stuff.

And, you know, Menachem Bagan,

who is like the worst, I mean, like, was a straight-up terrorist.

I mean, and in that series, if you remember, he talks a lot about like the evil shit that Menachem Begin and the Ergon and the Stern gang and the Haganah, all the shit they did.

And they were just straight-up terrorists.

That's what they were doing.

Terrorism, in order to drive out an occupying force, you can't make this shit up, is what led to the creation of Israel.

And now they're like, you know,

universally regarded as terrorist groups.

Oh, you self-admitted terrorist groups.

Like, we're committing acts of terrorism.

There were debates about whether we should embrace terrorism or not.

And the side saying we should embrace terrorism won the day.

This is how Chaim Weizmann, he was supposed to be the David Ben-Gurion.

He was the number one ranked Zionist at the time.

And he stood up and was like, yo, we can't do this.

We can't embrace terrorism.

Like, his thing was like, we can't achieve a Jewish state by un-Jewish means, which he considered terrorism to be.

Like, this violates our religion.

We can't do this.

But even him, there was this one point, which I had never heard before, but I learned it from Daryl Cooper's series.

I think it was probably one of the things that stuck with me the most, was that if you remember, it's right toward the end.

It's when

they're doing the King David hotel bombing, and they're doing all this terrorism to try to drive the British out.

And at one point, the British like caught a few of the, I can't remember if it was from the Ergon or the Lehigh, but it was from one of those two militias.

And they caught a few of their guys, and they like publicly flogged them or something like that.

And then Menachem Begin and his terrorist boys, they got a few

of like the British soldiers and they fucking flogged the shit out of them and then killed them and then booby-trapped the bodies so that it fucking blew up more people when they came to try to get it back.

And that now he's a wanted man at this time, Menachem Begin, so he's like living underground.

And so he, then he did like a radio address.

And in his radio address, he was like, he said something like he was like, hey, just so you know, Jews don't get flogged anymore.

We do the flogging now.

And look, this guy was a bad guy.

He was a fucking terrorist.

But there is something so badass about that that there is a part of you that's just like, whoo, like you, you can kind of understand a people going through this fucking collective struggle and then getting to a point where they're like, we will be the ones inflicting struggle from now on.

not the ones receiving it.

And I, you know, look, I still come out on the side that I think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is horrible and inexcusable, and I favor a two-state solution.

I think America should stop funding Israel.

But I think it's nothing but beneficial to kind of like understand that perspective a little bit more.

And even though I kind of grew up on the pro-Israel propaganda and then ultimately rejected it, that was Daryl's effect on me was being like, ah, you know, there is like, I'm seeing the humanity in the Israeli side a little bit more.

So give me a fucking break about these people saying like he's some fucking neo-Nazi drumming up Jew hatred.

It's just not true.

Yeah, they just

have established boundaries of what you're allowed to talk about.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Yeah.

And there's there's you know, there's narratives that can't be breached.

You have to you have to follow it to a T,

and that's it.

That's it.

And anything else, you're anti-Semite.

And you know, he's labeled all over the place.

I'm sure his Wikipedia calls him that.

I'm sure.

I mean, it's just, there's so many people that have really irresponsibly done that and defamed him.

And it's fucked up, but ultimately it doesn't work.

It just makes him bigger.

I 100% agree.

And then I also think that

it's almost like it's very obvious, I think, if you're looking at it with clear eyes, that it's like, look, like, okay, look, look, I'm Jewish, and I don't wish to see a rise in people hating Jewish people.

Like, obviously, I'd be opposed to that.

But you're going to, you're, if you're going to say that anybody who criticizes the government of Israel or anybody who criticizes the Israeli lobby and the unbelievable influence that that has over

our government, and you're going to label all of them as anti-Semites, like, all right,

I would think that it would be wiser to at least be thankful that there are people who are not Jew haters who are pointing this out rather than just leaving it to all the Jew haters to be the only ones who are pointing this out.

Like, you know, it's like, you think Daryl Cooper is like, okay, like, what's your goal here to shut him down?

Who do you think is going to replace him?

You better hope that they're going to be as thoughtful and responsible as he is.

Right.

And they probably won't be because not too many people are.

But that's how it always is, right?

I mean, this is the problem with suppression.

The problem with, I mean, it's essentially a version of the same problem of creating terrorists.

You attack because you think you're going to stop the terrorism.

You just create more terrorism.

You know, you think you're going to stop people from expanding the narrative and talking outside of these borders that you've clearly established for how people are able to discuss certain sensitive topics.

No, you're not.

You're not going to do that.

You're just going to make people realize that there's a third rail and they don't understand why there's a third rail.

And then they start looking into it and they go, oh, how much influence does Israel have on our country?

And then they start asking those kind of questions.

And this gives way to the rise of anti-Semitism.

I think suppression of people's ability to talk about very polarizing topics like Gaza, suppression of that is a cause of anti-Semitism because people start thinking, like, is there some sort of grand plan to control us and keep me from being able to talk about something that clearly is in the news every day?

It seems like a big issue.

Yeah.

Well, there's also,

you know, like to the thing, literally, this is my origin story of being the guy that I am now, being obsessed with all this stuff,

was seeing Ron Paul versus Rudy Giuliani in 2007 at the Republican primary debate.

And Rudy Giuliani is arguing about how the terrorists hate us for our freedom.

And then Ron Paul, who I'd never heard of, just like this country doctor from Texas with an R next to his name, starts going like, you know, they don't hate us for our freedom.

They hate us because we're over there.

Like, how would we feel if somebody else was doing to us what we're doing to them?

And then Rudy Giuliani is like, yeah, that's a pretty absurd explanation that the reason they did 9-11 is because we were bombing Iraq.

And he goes, I've heard a lot of absurd explanations for 9-11, and I've never heard anything that ridiculous.

Which, by the way, was in Osama bin Laden's declaration of war on America.

So like to be like, I've never heard of this is not quite the brag or flex that you think it is.

And then Ron Paul just fucking schooled him.

I was like, you know, he was like, you know who came up with the term blowback?

The CIA.

Because it's a real thing.

There is blowback.

And if we think we can go around the world and do whatever we want to people and that's not going to incite hatred, we do that at our own peril.

Like let's be, but for whatever reason for me, it was always kind of just easy to connect that.

Like I remember,

you remember

there was the scene in Goodwill Hunting where, like, at the end, when he breaks him and he's like, it's not your fault.

It's not your fault.

And he starts crying.

But he finally gets him to start talking about the abuse he went through in his childhood.

And Matt Damon's character is talking about it.

And he's like,

he's like, oh, he used to lay like a stick, a belt, and a wrench on the table and tell me to pick.

And Robin Williams was like, I'd have to go with the stick on that one.

And he goes, I used to pick the wrench.

And he was like, why would you pick the wrench?

And he goes, because fuck him.

That's why.

And like, okay, there's something about that that was always very easy for me to understand.

Like, you just get to a point where it's like, yeah, because fuck you.

It's like, why would, why would some Palestinian who's, let's say there's, there's an an Israeli who kicks him out of his house that his grandfather built, that his family's been living in for 100 years.

And now that Israeli guy is living in his house and you're watching from like a refugee camp, this guy live in your house.

And as Daryl says in the series, he goes, now you have no means by which to give that house back to your grandmother, but you could burn that house to the fucking ground.

And like, it's easy to look there and go, but why would you do that?

That's irrational.

And it's like, no, not really.

It's really not.

Cause it's picking the wrench.

It's going because fuck you you know what i mean right and they're like all of these things it there's always like reactionary movements and like so again like this it's say okay yes you're gonna sit here and for fucking 15 years tell young white men that they're toxic and they're the problem and their masculinity is inherently wrong What do you think's going to come out of that?

And then like the same people are like, where did this Andrew Tate guy pop up from?

And you're like, you made him.

You made him.

If you wanted to make him, you couldn't have done a better job.

Look, that's the whole fucking story of the nazis to begin with that we imposed the treaty of versaille and insisted on internationally humiliating these people and crushing them and then fucking where'd these nazis come from it has a reaction to that obviously

yeah and we never learn that's what's fucked do you think we're gonna learn more now i mean you have to realize if you're thinking about history this is the first time where people have this kind of access to all the different layers that are in operation all over the world.

And if you're paying attention, and most people aren't, but if you're paying attention, you have a much broader understanding of all the things that are at play than ever before and how these things could be avoided.

And I think that's one of the reasons why people were excited about Trump getting into office when he was saying, I can stop that war in one day.

We can make deals.

There's deals that can be made.

We can stop all the killings.

Everybody's like, yeah, finally, someone is not going to do it the the way we've done it before.

I think there's, I'm, uh, I'm incredibly.

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Be like

optimistic on a long

time period.

I think that, like exactly what you just said, I mean, it's, it's the, the propaganda apparatus has been completely destroyed.

Like it's just not, you know, there's, and there's been this, I really do think a massive awakening.

There's, there's several factors to this.

I think COVID is the biggest single one.

You know, I think that there's, there is something about

imposing such draconian measures on the domestic population.

Like, look, we start a lot of wars over bullshit, but the truth is for most Americans, that's kind of over there somewhere.

And we're living our lives.

And, you know, like, you might be against it, but it's a different thing than like instituting totalitarianism in the United States of America, which lockdowns were, objectively.

And they did it not only, it's not just that they got it all wrong.

It's that it was, you know, they were fucking lying.

Like, you motherfuckers made the thing and you knew you did.

And then you covered it up.

Like, there is even, now this is like everywhere it's like the shit that we used to talk about a few years ago that was like the controversial you know conversations everyone's talking about them now it was just bill maher the other day brought up that like hey you know how crazy is it that we figured out that british intelligence in march of 2020 said that i forget what it was but they said with 85 certainty this came from the lab you know and then so they did all of this and they got it completely wrong and they were so full of shit that that's kind of that spell's been broken people see this now i do think you're right that there was like a tremendous,

look, you know, as Ron Paul used to always say, the peace candidate always wins.

I mean, like, if you, in the year 2000, George W.

Bush,

he campaigned on a humble foreign policy.

No nation building, no using our police, not being the policeman of the world with our military.

People remember, that's what he ran and won on.

Barely won, but still he won on that.

And then in 2004, you know, John Kerry refused to run against the war, and that's why he wasn't able to win.

And then in 2008, Barack Obama ran on a peace campaign, you know, destroyed Hillary Clinton in the primary, who had all the institutional money, all the big support behind her, but she had voted for the war in Iraq.

And Obama said, hey, that was a big mistake.

You can't give her the presidency when she made such a big mistake.

And people went, you know what?

That's right.

And even though he wasn't in the Senate yet when the war in Iraq was going on, he didn't vote for the thing.

And he said some beautiful things about closing Gitmo and ending torture and not fighting stupid wars.

And he won, like a dominant victory.

And then in 2016, Donald Trump ran and won on we're going to stop fighting these stupid wars.

And then in 2024, again, he wins on this.

Like the American people have spoken.

Now, that's a very different thing than the regime machinery itself.

So that's a different battle.

But the battle of public opinion on that has been won.

And then I do think even though

Jamie told us before the show started that there is now they're saying Elon Musk is going to be stepping away from Doge soon.

And yes, it's true that Doge didn't actually get any drastic cuts through, but it is amazing what they have done in terms of like

bringing to the cultural forefront the issue of how corrupt government is.

And so anyway, my long-term thing is that

I think corrupt regimes, which unfortunately we live under one, I think they are completely dependent on propaganda.

And that propaganda just broke.

You know, like we're just getting out of that now.

And I think there's, there's like amazing possibilities.

Dude, I mean, three years ago, four years ago, I couldn't have imagined we'd be here now.

Like, I just couldn't imagine that like the COVID restrictions have been completely defeated.

Wokeism seems to have been like pretty much defeated.

You know, like this is already just incredible.

Yeah.

It's incredible.

It's interesting.

And there's a lot of possibilities.

It could go a bunch of different ways.

And there's also examples of it going sideways, like what's happening in the U.K.

and what's happening in other parts of Europe, where the

totalitarian measures are ramping up.

And they didn't win the war on Woke.

In fact, they lost that war.

That's true.

They lost that war.

And I think that's a shiny example of the difference between what we tolerate in America.

Having the First Amendment, having that freedom of speech, and then also having the Second Amendment, the ability to back that up.

You know, people are, oh, you're going to use your...

I mean, I remember even Biden was talking about that.

You're going to fight a fucking jet with your rifles?

Like, that's ridiculous.

Like, no, but guess what?

You can't just do what they did in Australia and ship people off to camps in America.

Yeah.

Try that shit in Georgia.

Well, it's so stupid, too, because, number one, the Taliban just did that to you, sir.

Like, literally, you just pulled out in disgrace of a war that you couldn't win against a bunch of illiterate goat herders with rifles.

Not only that, but we left behind billions of

dollars of weapons.

They got a lot more rifles now.

And they go on parades with them where they're driving tanks down the street and flying over fucking black hawks.

But of course, the point is that, well, yes, if

the U.S.

military decided to nuke its own

population, yes, you're right, our guns wouldn't do any good.

But the point is that that's not what they're trying to do.

They're trying to rule us.

And like, yeah, of course, having guns.

Like, look, I don't know, by the way, let's say, like, the Jews in Nazi Germany had been well well armed would that have been enough to stop the Holocaust or like if the Ukrainians had been well armed would that have been enough to stop the genocide that Stalin inflicted on them or whatever but I'd be better they are than not like I don't know like yeah it it might at least give them a second to go like well we can't go you know and the truth is like if you were to try just think the the state that we're in right now It's like,

let's say they were just like, tomorrow, some leader was like, we're rounding up all the guns in Texas.

Like, no, you're fucking not.

Good luck.

You'll have a civil war on your hands.

Like, these people are not giving up their guns voluntarily.

And the thing about people who won't give up their guns voluntarily is if you try to force them to it, they have guns.

Especially if they think you're going to shoot them.

Yeah.

If you're coming with guns, they have guns.

Now you have a fight.

Yeah, that's right.

And that's terrifying.

And then you're also, you're paying someone to go do that.

That's a regular person.

Like, this is the thing about people in the army or in the police.

These are just regular folks.

Who tend to lean right-wing and tend to light guns and the Second Amendment.

Yeah.

Who may not be so keen on taking away the Second Amendment.

No, and they'll understand that this is a totalitarian measure and that what's going to happen is it's going to be the collapse of what we understand of as America.

America is, we think of America in terms of our ability to express ourselves first and our ability to defend ourselves.

Yeah.

No, that's why it's number one and number two.

And it's not to say that this is the entire reason, because obviously things like there's many different variables and factors and it's a complicated history.

But a huge part of the reason why America is the most prosperous, most successful country, and has largely been the freest country in the history of the world is because of that.

Because the first thing we enshrined in our Bill of Rights was like, listen, man, the government is, and that's, and it's not, you know, it's, it's not what the people are allowed to do.

It's what the government is not allowed to do to the people.

Congress, shall write no law.

Period.

You know, like this is like, it's the fact that this is the only country in the history of the world that was started on that premise and then has gone on to be the most dominantly successful country in the history of the world is not a coincidence.

No, it's not.

This is freedom's last battleground.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we're in the middle of it right now.

We're in the middle of it in a weird transitionary time where things are being exposed at a level that have never been exposed before.

And people have an understanding of how corrupt this system is in a way they've never been able to fully comprehend before.

You have an uncle that tells you, you know, what they do is a CIA sends people.

Uncle's crazy, that guy's out of his fucking mind.

Then Mike Benz explains it to you and shows you charts and graphs and brings up articles and has classified documents that have been released, and he's showing you those.

You're like,

yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, his stuff, and I mean, look, like the

Jeffrey Epstein stuff.

I mean, it's just like, again,

in every category that you could imagine.

Just what's happening with the American Heart Association trying to get people to be able to buy sugary drinks and crap food with food stamps.

And then you realize, oh, wait, look, these companies like Coca-Cola and Pepsi have actually donated to the American Heart Association.

Yeah.

And evidently, some

Twitter influencers, too.

Oh, yeah, a bunch of them.

See that?

Yeah.

Who have

taken in that big Pepsi money, and then they're going, it is an assault on liberty to tell people they can buy Pepsi.

So many people that have prominent X accounts and prominent, I'm sure, other social media platforms as well.

They all said the same thing, and they're probably being paid because a bunch of people were being paid to support Kamala Harris.

And there was a bunch of people that exposed that.

They showed the emails that they got.

We were invited to do this, and you would get paid like a considerable amount of money to make some sort of a statement saying that you would vote for that person.

And I guess they said, well, if you have 500,000 followers here and a million followers there, and you add all those up and you give this guy 25 grand, this guy 50, 50,

say 11 million.

Oh, by the way, I hear constantly, people when they attack me on Twitter that I'm getting Russian money or Qatari money.

I've never got a goddamn check from any of them.

Like, guys, give me the money.

I'm already saying the thing, I think.

So, like, hey, why not?

At this point,

I'm just kidding.

I don't want your money.

Well, I get it all the time.

People think that someone's guiding this show, and then I have someone who tells me what to talk about.

Like, I would have never had Kurt Metzger on yesterday if that's the case.

That's when you know no one's guiding anything.

Kurt Metzker.

He was screaming about everybody.

He was screaming about Elon.

He was screaming about everybody.

I love Kurt Metzger dearly.

I've known him for over 20 years.

He's one of the most brilliant comedic minds in the world.

But let's be real.

Nobody, if anyone was guiding anyone with a show, they would never allow Kurt Metzger to be on that show.

He is, anytime he appears on a show, that is proof that there is no big big money behind this show.

Well, the scary thing for people is that there's not a guide and that it really is the Wild West out here.

And that's that's real.

Like this show is a great example of that because this is the number one show in the world and this show is literally me and my phone.

It's very interesting for me from my perspective,

and I'm sure much more for you.

But like from my perspective, it's just like somebody who's like a regular and a good friend of yours and has been on the show many times.

I mean, I get, you know, constantly people always come up to me and ask, oh, what's Joe Rogan really like?

Which is always an interesting question to me because it's like, and I always say, my answer is always, I go, but you already know.

Like, you already know what Joe Rogan's like.

If you watch the show, you already know what Rogan is.

It's more of that.

Like, I don't know.

It's that or, you know, like, I'm not saying like, there's not like any element of like something you might tell a close friend that you wouldn't say publicly, but like generally speaking, and this is true, by the way, almost with all of my favorite comedians.

You know, people be like, what was Patrice O'Neill like?

You'd be like, like Patrice O'Neill, like exactly the guy you saw.

He was that.

A lot more of that.

Neil's is exactly like that.

It's just always the case.

But it was really interesting.

At least, I don't know.

It was just so entertaining for me after this last election, when it was almost like they finally had to admit the power that you have.

You know, because like for all those years, and we would always make fun of it over the years, but like Brian Stelter would be on CNN and he'd be like, the fringe Joe Rogan is over here.

He's very controversial.

And you'd be like, controversial?

It's like, he's got 15 million people listening to his show and you're struggling to break 200,000.

How do you get to say he's fringe?

You know, like, but it's almost like they had to admit after this last election, they're like, oh, and then the way they start going, well, we need our own Joe Rogan or we need our own this.

And it's just, I don't know, it's very interesting where it's like, man, talk about like, you guys just don't get it.

Well, my favorite one was there was a guy on CNN saying that there's a well-funded network of right-wing influencers that are organized.

And they were trying to make this argument.

And who are the people, like Theo and you?

Jen Saki was trying to make this argument with Jon Stewart.

Oh, yeah, and Stewart called her out, and he was like, yeah, no, that's not right.

No,

she was like, well, it's a right-wing movement.

She's like, it's more of a comedian-libertarian movement.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a lot of fun.

Which is, I think, is more like, you know, I mean,

I mean, I think generally speaking, like, you know, as you've always said, you're kind of a mix of like some kind of more sympathetic to left-wing ideas, some more sympathetic to right-wing ideas, some sympathetic to libertarian ideas.

But it's just so, especially like if you just know the people involved, like to describe you and Theo Vaughan as a right-wing network.

It's the most disorganized thing in the history of the world.

Organized and well-funded.

I'm not organized, and I guess I'm well-funded, but it's not for that.

I'm asking the audience.

Yeah, but it's also, it's like no one tells me anything.

Like, I can have on UFO people, I can have on comedians.

No, there's no feedback.

I I have no feedback.

There's no exchange between me and Spotify in terms of who you got this week.

What's the month look like?

Tell us the big names.

They started at the beginning of the deal.

They said, okay, who's going to be the people the first week?

And my manager's like, hey, hey, hey, it's the same show.

You bought the number one show in the country.

He's not doing anything different.

And they're like, well, we would like to get some big names out of the gate.

Like,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, that's just not

what we do here.

I'm not going to to change.

It's the same show.

But the thing, it's such a funny thing because it is almost like, it's like,

you know, it's like somebody in a marriage, you know, like the corporate media, I'd say, they're like in a marriage and they're just lying through their teeth to their spouse.

They're constantly cheating on them.

They're getting caught left and right.

Then they're saying, no, no, no, it wasn't that.

It was you.

And you're the bad person and all this.

And they're just like the worst, most dishonest, fucking obvious liars.

And then they're like looking over at like someone in a healthy marriage and they're like, so what's that guy's trick?

Like, how does he do it?

And you're like, it's like, he just doesn't lie to her.

He's nice to her.

And, like, I don't know.

Like, it's just like, the thing is, the big secret is that you're authentic and just say what you mean and invite the people on who you're interested in talking to.

And that

was like the antidote to your insane, tyrannical bullshit.

It's also that I started it not for money.

I started it for fun and it didn't make money for years.

And I was independently wealthy.

Like, I had money from Fear Factor and I had money from stand-up comedy.

I was like, I didn't have like a crazy lifestyle.

I was like, I can just, I'm fine.

Like, this is fun to do.

I'm just going to do this.

And then it just got big.

And it was so new.

And I never changed it.

I just kept doing it.

I made it better, got better cameras.

Yeah, that was it.

Now it's funny.

Sometimes you'll look back at those old episodes and you're like, holy shit, that's grainy.

I don't remember it being that grainy, but it was

cameras were terrible back then.

And we just used regular webcams that you go to Fry's Electronics and buy.

We just like regular fucking USB microphone in the beginning, plug it into a MacBook.

The whole thing was so janky.

It was like, and now, you know, they think somehow or another, because it's big, well, some, it's been infiltrated.

It's not that I haven't been offered.

People have tried to buy percentages of the show and give me large sums of money.

And I'm like,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the, I'm glad you didn't make that decision.

Once you have fuck you, money, you better say fuck you.

Because if you don't, you're not,

you're ruining the one of the most beautiful gifts the universe can bestow upon a person to never be beholden to money anymore to just be able to like be yourself to do what you like to do i uh tucker carlson said about me once and i thought it was like one of the best compliments i've ever gotten and it really meant a lot to tucker he's someone i really admire a lot but he was it was uh i think Patrick Bet David, if I'm remembering correctly, he was on his, and it was before, like the debate with Cuomo had been announced, but it was before it happened.

And Patrick was like,

how do you think that's going to go?

And Tucker was like, look, man, he's like, the thing about Dave is he is just totally unencumbered by any restraints.

You know, like there's no, I mean, I think what he meant was just like, there's no one who's like cutting his check.

There's no one who's like, there's nothing that holds him back.

Like, I get to do the biggest show in the world a lot because you like what I have to say.

And so then that's it.

It's not like there's no, I feel no like, man, I wish I could say this, but I really can't say that.

And there's something about that that is like, that's the new thing.

And I'll say, I think you,

and look, this is what's really crazy, right?

Like the impact of what you did during this election going forward is going to be, and I know you don't like when I like suck your dick too much, but I'm just saying,

there's

the fact that Trump did the show.

Got such a great response from it.

Kamala Harris refused and then tried to get you to change what the show was.

And then obviously in hindsight, like, oh, you know, the conventional wisdom is you really should have done that.

The new normal now going forward for presidential elections is going to be that the expectation is that you can, and not just your show.

I'm not saying like you're, you have to have the candidates on every single four years, although I think you should, but that's your choice, obviously.

But the new expectation, the expectation used to be that two or three times a presidential candidate is going to have to go do one of these CNN debates where they will be asked these like very narrow questions.

They'll have 90 seconds to respond.

You know, it'll be Obama.

You know, how do you feel we do this in the war on terrorism?

Be like, well, first of all, thank you.

And thank you for coming out.

And we appreciate this.

Listening fluff and bullshit and blah, blah, blah.

And then hopefully across water.

Yeah.

But nothing, just emptiness.

Nothing happens.

And now the expectation is that you got to go have an organic, unscripted, three-hour conversation and probably do it a few different times with a few of the big shows.

And you get, you know, like you get to kind of see that person in a whole different way than we've ever gotten to see presidential candidates before.

And the truth is that a candidate like Kamala Harris will never be a major party nominee again.

A candidate who is un up this what's her running mates Walsh?

Tim Waltz.

These guys are not because they're not built for that.

The future is going to be guys like J.D.

Vance, guys like Vivek Ramaswamy, guys like Bobby Kennedy, Tulsi Gabbard.

And by the way, maybe the Democrats will find somebody in there.

You know, you wouldn't have predicted Donald Trump in the middle.

Gavin Newsom is trying to do that.

And that's why

he wants it to be him so bad.

Yeah.

And that's why he's doing his podcast.

And he's doing a podcast where I'm inviting everybody on.

Well, he's at least right for doing that.

Everybody, come on in, whoever you are.

I'm inviting them all.

Hey, Gavin, invite me on.

We'll have a nice chat.

He probably would.

I'll do it.

We had Steve Bannon on.

Gavin, Mr.

Newsome, Governor Newsome,

I would love, I would be honored to be on your show.

We can have a nice civil conversation about the issues.

He'll probably have you on right now.

He'll probably hear that.

You can reach out to you.

Look, I will give him credit for this.

He is at least smart enough that, like, that is the move, is to go do a podcast and start interacting and try to figure out.

I think the issue that Gavin Newsom has is he is a very talented, old-school politician.

And I think that

archetype has been rejected.

And that's going to be very tough.

I think that going forward, like, you know, know, you saw, I don't know if you saw recently, it was a few weeks ago, Bernie Sanders and AOC had like a few big rallies, and they're drawing like, you know, tens of thousands of people to these rallies.

Now, I don't think either of them are going to be the nominators.

I don't think they're really drawing those people.

That also is probably true.

You know, they got the cell phone data and those things.

Yes, no, I know.

And

I've seen that, and they are probably pretty artificial.

But still, there is no way, like,

no one's reading Chuck Schumer's new book.

No one cares about Nancy Pelosi.

Like, the establishment wing is not going to be what the future is.

It's going to have to be some populists.

It's going to be Jasmine Crockett.

I'm not sure she's the one.

Marjorie Taylor Greene and Jasmine Crockett in a cage fight.

Let's go.

Dude,

that's your old bit from Talking Monkeys in Space, where you're just like, we could go dubber.

Yeah.

Just keep getting a dumber dumber.

So this is the level now.

You're fucking it.

Maybe you really predicted the future.

Yeah, I definitely did.

That was about George Bush getting us into Iraq.

He won again?

And then someone in the back of the room going, I think we can go dumber.

And he's right.

And he was 100% right with Tim Walt.

I mean, that guy was almost the vice president of the United States.

I'm sure you've seen that thing where it shows Obama saying, I need a vice president that's dumber than me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then it's Biden and David.

I need a vice president dumber than me.

And it's Kamala.

And Kamala saying, I need a vice president dumber than me.

And it's Waltz.

This is why men have tampons.

Yeah,

you got to lose because we've got to break this cycle.

We're getting way too dumb.

You need to regroup.

It wasn't just that we were getting dumb.

We were getting scary close to people justifying totalitarian measures.

You know, Tim Walz in the campaign trail was literally saying, free speech doesn't include hate speech and misinformation.

Hey, man, fuck you.

Yeah.

How about fuck you?

Because everything that we called misinformation just a few years ago is now being fucking on, it's on the front page of the New York Times now that we were lied to.

I mean, the New York Times just printed a thing, it turns out we were lied to.

Yeah, you lied to us.

You were a part of it.

You spit out all of their propaganda without doing what you're actually supposed to do, which is be a journalist.

Yep.

The only way you can be a journalist today is if you're independent.

A real journalist.

You have to be a Glenn Greenwald.

You have to be a Schellenberger.

You have to be a Matt Taibbi.

You have to be someone who's independent.

That's the only way you could do real journalism today.

It's just too many fucking garbage.

Glenn Greenwald, who is debatably the greatest journalist of the 21st century,

and maybe I'd give it to Julian Assange, but he's up there.

He had to leave.

the publication that he was a founder of, you know, The Intercept.

He had to leave them because they were going the route of propaganda and not letting him tell the truth about Joe Biden.

And it's a testament to Glenn Greenwald that he was just like, okay, cool.

Bye.

And I'll go be just as big without you guys.

And that's,

that's another thing that's really interesting about like this let, which is very recent though, right?

That there was a time like where like cancel culture was so effective.

And I remember thinking this was something that really kind of scared me like a few years ago because it was like.

You know, you'd have these people, like some of the people who kind of started getting like big like before me.

I mean, I was doing what I do, but I had a slower like progression.

But like some of these people who shot up to the top,

Milo or people like that, got totally removed from the conversation.

It was like they were just taking a bunch of people.

He's the best example.

Yeah, this guy was going to be the guy.

He's on.

And then Bill Marshall.

Yeah.

And did great on

compared to Hitchens.

Yeah.

Remember that?

Yeah, I remember.

Yeah.

Like a gay Christopher Hitchens or something like that.

And now

it just seems all over the place.

There's lots of examples of it where it's like they try to,

they've tried.

I mean,

you went through, I think, the biggest cancellation attempt where they were just like, you could see it was like, I remember in those few weeks, it was like a decision had been made.

We're going after Joe Rogan.

And they just emptied every bullet they had and it all just bounced off you.

And then you see this with like a lot of other people like, you know, Alex Jones, Andrew Tate, you know, however you feel about these guys.

I'm not even making a comment on

I'm just saying that them getting kicked off every platform has not worked at all.

It doesn't work anymore.

And that's great.

And Daryl's another example of that, too, where they tried to go after him and it just was like not having it, just made him bigger.

Yeah, it's fascinating.

So they're going to have to adjust or go away, adjust or perish.

And

I assume they're going to perish.

I don't see them adjusting.

The only thing that could change is the people that own them, like Jeff Bezos has kind of put the clamps down on the Washington Post and said, look, I don't want any of these fucking crazy left-wing opinion pieces anymore.

I want you to report about lifestyle, health, news,

objective news.

Like, let's become a fucking newspaper again, which is what is, that's the only way you have value with everybody.

Otherwise, you're alienating literally 50% of the country, and the 50% that buy it, they have to be retarded because you've been lying so openly about so many different things.

Everything has to be gone through a filter.

Everything's so, yeah,

and so, like, it's not even just that they're lying, but that they're lying in such a brazen, such a 180 degree from reality.

You know, like the way they've tried to make this threat of doge, you know, like where they're just kind of like, you know, what right does he have to go through all these bureaucratics email, bureaucrats' emails?

And what, and when you zoom out, it reminds me a lot.

There's this weird parallel between like what Bobby Kennedy was able to insert with the Maha movement, where you had this thing where we had like what they'd call a national health crisis, you know, a pandemic, Like the all of our focus has to be on this health issue.

And then Bobby Kennedy just kind of came along and was like, could I point out that like there's a real health crisis that we have?

Yeah.

That's not the one you're talking about at all.

Like you're claiming to care about health so much.

And it's like, okay, look at autism and diabetes and obesity.

And we're the, like, we lead the world in chronic illness,

heart disease, like all these things.

Like, that's kind of.

And then it was just the Doge thing, it was like, okay, so we have the U.S.

federal government is the biggest organization in the history of the world.

We spend more than any other government in the history of the world has ever spent.

We are so far in debt now that the interest on the debt is now, I believe last year it was $1.2 trillion, and it's going up.

Yeah.

And the interest on the debt is now overtaking the entire budget.

Like, I remember when trillion-dollar deficits were crazy.

If we balanced our budget tomorrow, we still run a trillion dollar deficit every year just because we owe it on the interest on the debt.

This is so obviously a crisis.

And then they're trying to convince you that the real crisis is that Elon Musk and a few of his genius nerd buddies want to open the books?

Like, how the fuck can you convince anyone of that?

Well, the Democrats are really good at having a narrative and then marching with it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're really good at it.

And that's what you see with all these tweets that are all from the same kind of verbiage.

They're using the same sentences.

And you see them all throughout.

Whenever it comes to certain issues, they're really good at

staying united and getting out this one message.

Yep, which does, which does work

to kind of shockingly well.

But again, it is like you can watch it.

Like it's like this thing that's getting diminishing returns and diminishing returns.

And it's like, oh, it's not the same old thing isn't working anymore.

We're also in this big Manhattan project style race to create sentient AI.

And that's another issue that's going to completely transform society.

If you think the internet and podcasts transform society, just wait till you have super intelligent, godlike computers that are telling us what we should do.

Yeah, and there's,

you know, look, there's some pretty spooky implications of all of that.

I mean, I've read a decent amount about the way like

the IDF was using artificial intelligence to like track, you know, like

suspects and stuff like this.

And you're like, oh, oh, like the military using AI is kind of creepy.

But then at the same time, you know,

what might that do to like people's ability to keep secrets and keep corruption going?

And, you know, it's kind of like who gets in charge of that is going to be a vet.

That's going to be like the fate of mankind.

Well, I think they're prepping for that.

That's why they're jailing politicians.

Like, there's a lot of that going on right now where they're in a hot panic because you're not going to be able to hide anything anymore.

It's going to, we have just a, it's going to come in waves and it's going to be, I mean, I'm just guessing what its impact is going to be, but I think the world's unrecognizable in 20 years.

Yeah, I think you're probably right, probably right about that.

And it's,

you know, it's going to be very, it's going to be very interesting.

I remember you said like a long time ago, I think it was like at the very beginning of the podcast, but you had said one thing where like, you were like, it's going to be harder and harder to lie.

Like that's just going to be the future, where it's just harder and harder to lie.

And you're talking about just like, even how much right now, like, you know, you know, like I was, I was born in 1983.

So I grew up in like the 80s and the 90s.

And like, you could lie back then.

You could just tell why.

You could make up stories.

You make up whatever.

I used to do this.

I was the head of this.

I worked at this company.

Yeah, just say that.

Just have a narrative.

It was just totally like, and you were just like, I don't know.

I mean, he says it.

There's no way to really check that.

And now it's like, you just say, like, oh, I used to do this.

It's like, no, no, you didn't.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's a crazy shift that, you know, it happens slow enough that you don't run.

But the more that that goes on and on and the more technology there is and the more like singularity type shit or the more like it's going to, it's going to become increasingly more and more difficult to deceive people.

At least that would be my guess.

There's going to be an app in our lifetime that's a lie detector and it's going to be 100%.

It's going to read your redness.

It's going to look at your eyeballs and you're going to use it just the same way you use FaceTime and you're going to have to talk to your boss through that thing.

And it's going to be able to tell you, what did you do?

What did you actually do?

Where's the money?

Why is money missing?

Oh, imagine that just like on politicians, though.

Oh, boy, it's going to be great.

Get that bitch on Nancy Pelosi.

Because I just happen to be really good at picking stocks.

Too bad.

Dick Cheney's dead.

Would you like to stick him in front of that thing?

No, he's still alive.

Isn't he?

Is it Dick Cheney?

I thought he died.

No, Dick Cheney's still alive.

Dick Cheney's alive.

Is he?

Yeah, no, somebody.

I think somebody else.

else died.

I'm trying to think of who you...

Who is the guy who died?

One of the big ones died.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, someone real evil did die.

But that guy's...

What's that?

He's still alive.

Yeah, he's still alive with another dude's heart.

Still alive with another dude's heart.

Isn't it crazy?

All these people died from COVID, and that fucking guy's just still kicking.

Yeah, well,

the thing about making the deal with the devil is, you know, you get paid off.

At one point in time, he had no pulse.

He had something that was just circulating blood through his body, and he's got a pulse.

That's got to be in the Bible.

Yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely something to that.

A a guy responsible for a million innocent people dying who doesn't have a pulse.

And can you imagine?

It was just crazy.

And I don't know, like, I don't know how much he was acting on his own.

Or, like, they were.

Oh, McCain's dead.

John McCain is dead.

He's been gone for a while.

Why did I think that Cheney was dead?

I feel like there's somebody else who I, but maybe not.

But you know what's crazy?

Did Rumsfeld just die?

I'm not sure.

There was a fake report earlier this year that Dick Cheney died.

Oh, maybe that's it.

They got me.

They got you with a scam.

They got me to fake it.

But isn't it crazy that, which, you know, like, there's a million examples of this, but just like how tone deaf the Kamala Harris campaign was.

Now, I don't know how much Dick Cheney they, like, but Liz Cheney, they started

because Dick Cheney endorsed it.

He came out to endorse it and say that Donald Trump is the most dangerous threat to America.

And then she started campaigning with Liz Cheney.

Like as if,

I mean, it's just, forget even like the fact that obviously like I'm the anti-war guy and I think all these people are blood-soaked monsters who should burn in hell for eternity.

But leave all that aside.

Just the politics of it.

Liz Cheney lost her congressional race by like 50 points.

What market is that?

Like what margin on the edges did they think like, I know.

I know what'll move this.

Okay, we're down, but we're not out.

Bring in the Cheneys and then we're going to tell them about how much we love fucking the war in Iraq or something like that.

And it was, I think it was just a signal to like military contractors to be like, hey, we're cool.

You know, like send us some more money.

Internally, apparently, they already knew they were losing.

Yeah, they said the, um, from.

Which makes the spending even weirder.

Yeah, well, evidently, the, um, the internal polling, there's a few really interesting questions about this.

Cause so the, it's been reported that the internal polling of Biden before he dropped out was like a crazy landslide, way, way more than what Trump ended up winning by.

Like they had him winning like 500 electors.

I forget what it was, but it was like a crazy fucking blowout.

And then similarly, when Kamala Harris took over, like they knew.

But then there's also something interesting where it's like, hey, so like

pollsters, could we ever get the real polls?

How come like they can figure out the real polls?

But then you, because there was something like, there's only been a few elections.

in my life that I remember where like it was um it was just obvious who was who was gonna win like Obama in 2008 right it was obvious.

You could not have convinced anyone.

Like, it looks like John McCain's the frontrunner.

No, it fucking does not.

Like, this black Jesus is drawing 80,000 people.

And then John McCain's over here.

Like, I don't think we can do it.

You know, it's like, clearly, this guy's losing, and this guy's going to win.

But the polls reflected that.

It was like, oh, yeah, Obama's up big in the polls.

But this year.

Everything you could see, taste, touch, like it was just, oh, obviously Donald Trump.

Everywhere Donald Trump went, he's getting like a king's greeting.

He's like with all the culture is totally shifted in his direction.

Imagine if they hadn't astro-turfed those conventions for Kamala Harris.

Imagine if they hadn't paid people to show up.

How many people would be there?

They'd have an arena.

Imagine, like, right, it wasn't people coming to see Beyonce, and they just had to come see Kamala Harris.

This campaign was the Kamala Harris.

And this is part of the reason why, even though I am...

really upset with Donald Trump, and I'm upset with a lot of the cabinet people too.

I mean, look, Bobby, I will say, does seem to at least be doing some real structural, like he's talking about really, you know, changing some things at the health department.

I think maybe he could take a break from tweeting about the virus of anti-Semitism, but whatever.

Tulsi, I'm really upset with over, you know, her like cheering on these strikes.

I thought she was supposed to be the one who was going to stand up in that signal group and say something and not just leave it to JD.

And I think Donald Trump's messing up in a lot of ways.

But I really, at least at this point, like if he invades Iran and we have another war there, then I will apologize for voting for him.

Then I think I made a mistake and I shouldn't have done that.

But short of that, I do think it was the right thing to do.

And part of it was like that that had to be exposed.

Because this Kamala Harris ticket, it was the most astroturfed ticket ever.

You know, like it's one thing.

Look, Obama had a lot of institutional support.

It wasn't as organic as they made it out to be.

But there was a lot of real support.

But he had real real support.

Like he did have real grassroots support.

She was just, she never won a, she didn't win a primary.

She didn't win a delegate when she ran for president.

She didn't even make it to Iowa.

It was all fake.

It was all phony.

And it was like that had to be exposed.

It's dangerous.

That's dangerous.

Because if they can get that through with her, even if you like her or anything, she would have done a great job.

It's scary that you were given that kind of power.

And the same people that were auto-penning all those Biden executive orders would have been in charge for another four years, if not forever.

Yeah, that's right.

And

look, even

you could say whatever that Joe Biden just feared that Donald Trump would abuse the Justice Department, which is a little ironic to accuse him of the thing you're actually guilty of doing.

But to go out and to pardon your family and forget the family even, because that's a little less relevant.

But to pardon Fauci and go back to 2014,

why'd you pick that year?

You know, Joe, I mean, obviously Joe Biden didn't pick anything, but who's the person who picked that we got to go back and give this guy blanket immunity going all the way back?

Like, come on, dude.

What the fuck?

It's crazy.

That's, I mean, it's too much.

It's crazy.

And who, who really signed that?

That's the other thing.

The thing about using AutoPen for writing all those pardons, does that count?

Is there a legal battle about that?

Because if you can't remember, if Mike Johnson testifies that he brought up the natural gas deal and he's like, why did you

go?

And he's like, I didn't.

Yeah.

And he's like, no, you did.

And then he asks to be alone with Mike Johnson.

So he always has handlers with him.

And then when he's alone with him, then Biden tells him, I didn't sign that.

Yeah.

And then you realize it's the same signature.

Well, when you're

the level of senile that Joe Biden was,

it's

like it leads to the question, we're like, so how easy was it for everybody to manipulate you?

Also, because you could just tell him he did or didn't do something, and he may not, you know, like he.

Right, Right, he doesn't remember.

Well, like, we don't know, you know, like I'm, there was this one thing, look, like, one of the things on October 7th, and I try almost to avoid this topic sometimes because I don't want it to come off like I'm downplaying the horrors of October 7th.

Like, Hamas invaded Israel.

They did some really fucked up shit.

They indiscriminately killed a bunch of civilians, and they had grenades and rifles, and they did, it was horrible.

And they took a bunch of hostages, and it's, you know,

really interesting.

However, there were some claims that were made that turned out not to be true.

The 40 beheaded babies and some of the like claims of mass rapes and stuff like that just turned out not to be true.

They were said in the fog of this thing.

Whatever, I'll give the benefit of the doubt of like, you know, maybe it was, you know, I think they were kind of abused by some politicians in order to get you to turn your brain off and be very emotional and not pay attention to what this response is going to be.

But Joe Biden claimed that he had seen the videos.

of the beheaded babies.

And then it turned out to just like that never happened.

And then you're almost wondering, you're like, was he lying?

Does he not remember?

Did someone just tell him that you've seen that?

And that because he's a senile man.

He's also a liar, like his whole life.

Well, that's all.

That's right.

So it's like impossible to know because he's also been a liar his whole life.

He's also the guy who's like, I was first in my class, graduated with multiple degrees, and blah, blah, blah.

And you're like, none of this is even kind of true.

None of it's even kind of true.

Yeah.

And it's just wild that you could be too old and senile to stand trial for having classified documents, but yet you're fine giving out pardons.

Yeah.

Like, how do you let a person with a mental disease give out pardons?

That seems like that's the guy to manipulate.

And if it turns out that guy gives out more pardons than anyone ever upon leaving office.

Yeah.

How's that?

That seems like that seems like those shouldn't be legit.

Well, look, on its own, of course not.

On its own,

that, and there were things that come above that to me, like COVID and the war in Ukraine and, you know, a whole bunch of of other shit.

But that alone is like Kamala Harris and the corporate media and the demo.

They had to lose.

You can't do that.

You can't emperor's new clothes the entire American public and like fucking just lie through your teeth pretending this guy's not a vegetable.

Wild times, Dave Smith.

We've got to wrap this up.

All right, bitch home.

Thank you, sir.

Love you to death.

You're awesome.

Appreciate you very much.

Tell everybody how they watch your show.

Oh, part of the problem is my podcast where I talk about all this political news stuff.

And then Legion of Skanks is where I'm a degenerate with my comedian friends.

Check both of those out.

Skank Fest is in New Orleans this year.

If anyone wants to come, that's going to be a lot of fun.

I believe it's September of this year.

And then, you know, comic tapesmith.com if you want to come see me on the road.

Beautiful.

All right.

Bye, everybody.