1176: Earthing | Skeptical Sunday

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Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher Jessica Wynne.

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Has anyone ever told you to go touch grass?

Was it a sarcastic jab or an actual suggestion to reconnect with the earth?

These days, a lot of us are pretty cut off from nature.

We live in cities.

We work under fluorescent lights.

We exercise on treadmills indoors instead of, you know, on actual trails, most of us anyway.

Some people believe this disconnect might be messing with us and that literally touching grass is just what the doctor should be ordering.

There's a theory called earthing or grounding that says physically connecting to the earth can realign our bodies with its natural rhythms and even improve our health.

Sounds a bit crunchy, but is it?

Can barefoot walks in the park actually heal us somehow?

Or is this just another glossy wellness trend?

Joining me today is Jessica Wynne to help dig into this muddy topic.

All right, let's get grounded.

Jessica, are you like grounded right now, man?

I mean, I mean, yeah, I think we're both pretty grounded, but maybe not in the barefoot in the woods kind of way that's trending.

Yeah, yeah, I've seen the posts walking barefoot to cure everything from anxiety to arthritis.

Let's start with the basics.

Our earthing and grounding, is that the same thing or is there a nuance here?

It's close, but not quite the same thing.

So grounding is the broader term.

It includes stuff like breath work, mindfulness, improv warm-ups.

People in the grounding scene call it vitamin G.

Yeah, that's fun.

That sounds like a discontinued 90s energy drink that actually, you know, one of those things like, ooh, we had to take that off the shelf because, you know, the colon thing.

Bright green necto cooler.

Yes.

Gross.

But no, earthing is more specific.

So it means actual skin to earth contact.

Barefoot walks, lake swims, hugging trees, that kind of thing.

So all earthing is grounding, but not all grounding is earthing.

Okay, got it.

Earthing is the dirt on your feet thing.

Grounding is more indoors with shoes on and you playing on the

earthing takes the grounding concept and adds a big dose of pseudoscience and wellness.

So grounding's about presence and unlike earthing, it doesn't have to be physical.

Earthing takes that concept and just puts a lot of wellness branding as like a cure-awell for what ails us.

I see.

So earthing proposes that the earth has a negative charge and when you touch it, electrons enter your body and neutralize free radicals and balance the body's charge.

That's the belief anyway.

Right.

Balancing your charge.

So we're smartphones or Teslas now basically from the Seneca.

Kinda.

I mean, the idea is that being disconnected from Earth's electrons causes everything from insomnia to chronic pain.

And touching dirt equals healing, allegedly.

Whenever anything cures everything, I'm always super even more skeptical than I usually am.

Sure.

Okay.

And yet when I walk barefoot, All I get is weird looks and splinters.

Yeah, right, right, me too.

I mean, a lot of this is anecdotal.

Like, I sleep better.

I have more energy.

But when you dig into the science, it's a way more goop thing than peer-reviewed.

What do you mean, goop?

Like Gwyneth Paltrow goop?

Oh, yeah.

Her her lifestyle brand that capitalizes on wellness trends and convinces affluent women to stick jade eggs in their vaginas with no evidence it does.

anything.

I've been wondering where to get some vagina eggs.

I'm on the market, actually.

Well, look at you.

There's plenty online.

I mean, their site is, it's wild.

It also states that the company is called goop because the word means nothing but can mean anything which describes their science too right not the flex y'all think it is it means nothing but it could mean anything by this right right

so along with your egg you can buy a vesper 2 vibrator necklace for those urges on the ground.

So it's a vibrator around your neck.

Is it dishwasher safe too?

It better be.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

It better be for $100.

Yikes.

And guess what?

You can buy earthing gear on the goop site too.

For just $800,

you can own their earthing jacket.

What does that even look like?

I'm imagining kind of like the sod in my front yard sewn into a nice cardigan or vest.

That might be more interesting.

It's pretty unimpressive.

It looks just like something Larry David wears.

Yeah, such a grounded guy.

So, who started this whole barefoot movement?

I know it wasn't Gwyneth Paltrow.

Yeah, no, definitely not.

It was a guy named Clint Ober, and he used to work in the cable TV industry, grounding systems back in the 1980s and 90s.

One day, he had a light bulb moment and thought, what if humans like electronics need grounding too?

Yeah, so not a scientist, came up with Ethereum, was like, this is probably true, and here we are.

All right, color me surprised.

Yeah, not even close to a scientist.

He seems like a really nice guy, though.

I listened to a lot of interviews with him.

Okay.

He just has no medical or scientific background and made a leap from coaxial cables to curing cancer with grass.

And he's managed to build an entire movement around it.

So cable guy rebrands as wellness guru.

That is, he was ahead of his time, I think.

America.

Incredible.

I mean, it gets better.

He made a documentary.

He wrote a book.

He's launched tons of products.

We're talking about them.

You and I are.

We're talking about them.

So is there any science behind the claims?

Like, oh, it only does this, but it doesn't do the rest of the things.

Or is it just kind of of like eh it's kind of like eh okay i mean there's barely any science so yes earth has an electrical field yes and yes our bodies run on electrical signals like our brain waves our heartbeats all of that but the leap from electrons are real to touch grass it'll heal your pancreas that's a big one and yeah touting that standing barefoot on a lawn balances your internal voltage it's it's it's worth things short circuit yeah i mean of course look getting fresh air, taking a walk, it feels good, but it seems complicated and confusing for it to be a cure of something.

If it cured chronic illness, well, summer camp, first of all, would have eradicated childhood disease.

And here we are.

So, yeah, come on.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a very niche subject in the scientific world that it just pretty much dresses up this simple idea in complicated language to make it sound legit.

So it takes this basic truth, nature can be good for you, and puts a lab coat on it.

So earthing's a lot of things, but no matter what you read, it is not going to save your life.

And that's what big believers think it can do.

But why?

What do they base this on?

Why do people trust this guy in the theory at all?

Yeah.

I mean, I guess it's the same reason anyone buys into any wellness trend.

It sounds good and people want to feel better.

So after listening to all these interviews with Ober, watching his earthing documentary, skimming his earthing website, I'll be honest, I can't make heads or tails out of the claims.

The gist that I get was Ober lived in this magical place called Sedona, Arizona, and one day it just hit him.

We need to earth.

Yes, not the most scientific explanation.

It's funny, someone reads this and is like, oh, he lives in Sedona, and one day it hit him.

Okay.

I might need more.

I might need more in order to swipe my credit card.

I think it was probably a really supportive community too for this.

Yeah.

But the whole thing, it's just based on cherry-picked facts and wishful thinking.

So yes, connecting with nature is important.

Yes, these electrons exist, but they don't jump into our body and heal inflammation.

That is just not how physics works.

You know, since 1917, scientists have known Earth does have a negative charge.

Then about 60 years ago, it was proven the polar winds push charged particles like real high into the atmosphere.

And these facts are all threaded into the earthing philosophy.

And then in 2024, NASA accidentally gave the movement some more ammo.

Oh, yeah.

It's like the UFO thing.

So NASA's in on this now?

Tell me what's going on.

I mean, not on purpose.

A NASA-funded rocket team confirmed something called the ambipolar electric field.

This is a planet-wide electric field that keeps the balance to the Earth's charge.

Okay, fine.

But cable guy Ober was not on the rocket team over at NASA, I'm going to guess.

Yeah, shocking, but no.

And the barefoot crowd heard electric field and balancing Earth's charge and was like, boom, science.

Like breaking bad.

Pretty much.

And they're just like, yeah, science, bitch.

What is it?

Science, bitch.

Fine.

I'll buy your $800 jacket.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just post-hoc justification at its finest.

Yeah.

I mean, the ambipolar field, it's real and it's pretty cool.

It confirms there's atmospheric electricity that's always present and that as long as there's no thunderstorms, the air above the surface of the Earth will be positively charged while the Earth's is negative.

But all of this has absolutely nothing to do with whether kicking off your flip-flops is going to cure rheumatoid arthritis.

Right.

But people kick off their shoes and socks and dig their toes into the dirt and they're like, ah,

I'm getting my miracle cure.

You just feel the electrons flowing out or in or whatever.

Yeah, you can't deny it.

It does feel good psychologically, but it is not medicine for diseases.

But people find it easier to blame our modern woes on our footwear.

You know, rubber soles are the villain in the earthing world.

Earthing advocates say rubber soles insulate us from Earth's healing charge.

Hmm.

So they think this electrical field can balance the entire planet, but it can't get through Nikes.

Okay, got it.

Right.

That's the idea.

I mean, the theory is that when your skin comes into contact with the ground, electrons carry up into your body and have a therapeutic effect.

Okay.

So Earthing's just promoting this unsubstantiated claim that we need this contact because our body is building up excess electrical charge from living in the modern world and wearing rubber soles.

Yeah.

Well, I'm obviously not convinced, but when did we start wearing rubber soles anyway?

I guess how old are shoes with rubber soles?

I don't even know.

It's actually not that old.

So Charles Goodyear discovered vulcanization of rubber in 1839, and that's the process of heating natural rubber with sulfur and it just makes it tough and durable.

So that led to the rubber soles in the late 1800s.

The first rubber-soled shoes were called sand shoes.

They came out of the Liverpool Rubber Company, which was started by John Boyd Dunlop.

Ah, so Goodyear and Dunlop are, these are the tire guys.

Yeah,

those guys.

So those guys were all about contact to the ground.

So to them, what are shoes are just feet tires?

Is that what we're working with?

Okay.

Yeah, totally.

I mean, it's a great way to think of it.

It was sort of the testing for tires, I guess.

And like tires, they're great at keeping you grounded in a mechanical sense, but not the way the wellness folks mean it.

And then by 1892, the U.S.

Rubber Company created like the modern, comfortable, fabric-made sports shoes with a rubber sole, more like we know today.

They called them sneakers because the quietness of the rubber soles allowed you to sneak up on other people.

Yeah, that's a weird thing.

Like, hey, we made these shoes and they're so quiet, you can use them to murder people.

Cool.

Okay, so people think protecting our feet in this way is a bad thing and that I should just stop wearing shoes.

Is that where this takes us?

Because I'm not going to do that.

That's where people stand in the movement, but you know, humans invented shoes for a reason.

They protect our feet.

So if your earthing practice involves walking around barefoot, it's obvious.

You're risking injury, allergies, infections.

But the no-shoe philosophy, it goes way back before rubber soles.

You know, think traditional Chinese medicine.

They were really big on walking barefoot to stimulate some flow of energy throughout the body.

Being barefoot is also a feature of many indigenous cultures around the world, and several religions.

require devotees to remove their shoes to pray or enter a place of worship.

Sure, but they're not doing it to absorb electrons or whatever, right?

This is a cleanliness thing.

Right, exactly.

So it's more about respect and ritual, however they were imagining energy flow, but the modern earthing crowd claims being separated from the earth beneath our feet is causing chronic illness and inflammation, autoimmune diseases, mental health issues, basically everything.

So what's going on when we walk across the carpet and get shocked?

Is that grounding me somehow?

Because that used to happen a ton in Michigan.

Yeah, I mean, that's just static electricity.

Your body builds up a charge, positive or negative.

And when you touch something grounded like a doorknob, zap, your body's discharging.

First things first, the doorknob is also not touching the ground.

So there goes their whole theory, right?

It's in, it's encased in wood, which is not a, it's just as insulating as rubber, but whatever.

My point is I discharge all the time.

Oh, gross.

Bad.

Bad, Jordan.

Anyway, we get that little shock because our hair and skin are poor conductors.

So all this talk, it actually reminds me, this has nothing to do with the episode, but I went to a Bikram yoga class, which is like super hot, sweaty yoga.

I didn't go with Gabriel.

A lot of people think I will.

This is pre, pre-hot yoga with Gabriel.

I went there and it was carpeted, the room, because it was a commercial lease and they probably just wouldn't let the tenant take it.

You know, a sublet or whatever.

So imagine how the floor smells.

No.

Non-stop sweat just soaking in there for multiple hours every day, all day.

Super hot and barefoot, everyone.

So yeah, the whole room smelled like if you just boiled distilled foot juice down for a few hours, the whole room reeked of that.

And you'd open it this piping hot 99, whatever, 105 degree air, feet air, would just waft out into your face.

Oh, this is like a renon stimpy snake.

It's so gross.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with this episode.

Getting a shock from a doorknob has not happened to me in a long time since I moved to California from Michigan.

And I get, is that something to do with the humidity in the air, right?

Yeah, it makes sense because exactly.

The more dry the air is, the less conductive it becomes and static builds up.

So, I mean, we've known known about static electricity since at least ancient Greece.

In ancient Greece, though, they didn't have balloons to rub on kids' heads or wall-to-wall carpeting back then.

Do people know?

I haven't rubbed a balloon on a kid's head in a while.

A good minute.

I gotta.

It'll still work.

Yeah, it still works, even in California.

The physics is still there.

That's right.

But I mean, yeah, in ancient Greece, they didn't have that.

But they did have rabbit fur and sticks of amber, and they knew they could rub them together and create this magic static electricity to impress three-year-olds.

So static electricity, it's all around us.

It always has been.

We know for sure the Earth's surface has a negative charge and the upper atmosphere has a positive charge.

There's a weak current flowing between them.

Thunderstorms can amp that up.

You know, you can kind of feel it during a storm for sure.

But jumping to the conclusion that this will cure cancer or cure anything, it's just irresponsible.

Yeah, still, though, people say they feel better when they walk barefoot outside or whatever.

And that's what the earthing community gets into.

So it's just all like anecdotal placebo stuff, probably.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's relaxing, right?

Going outside and walking barefoot or not, it's good for you psychologically for sure.

You're outside, you're moving, you're in the sun, you're not in front of a screen.

I mean, that's just basic wellness.

It's not proof of electron therapy.

Right.

So spending time in nature, it's linked to mental health benefits.

But again, the idea that chronic illnesses are caused by an electrical imbalance between us and Earth, it makes no sense.

So yeah, we share electrons with everything we touch, but there's just no scientific evidence that it'll cure inflammation through your toes.

Okay, but earthing is pointing at real electrical stuff in nature, correct?

Yeah, totally.

Nature's full of real electrical phenomena, which the earthing community points to.

Positive and negative charges have been vital in nature long before humans invented a way to make it power our modern lives.

Bees, for instance, they build up a positive charge when they fly.

This is how they stick to the flowers.

It's why they get covered in pollen.

That's all static electricity.

You know, in the show notes, let's link to, there's this really cool article I read about robot bees.

And they get charged with static electricity to mimic what's going on in nature.

That's cool.

Yeah,

it's cool.

But that kind of charge, it's not going to heal anything.

Yeah, nobody's selling bee-charged sandals.

Don't give them ideas.

And here's where I get stuck.

So most of the studies on earthing, they're either just not peer-reviewed or they have super small sample sizes.

And they'll use terms like energy from the earth, which isn't exactly measurable in a lab.

Right.

It's not the real kind of energy.

It's like energy from the earth.

So you mean electrons?

Well, you know, so it's like, this is like physics cosplay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is like physics cosplay or something.

It's like, oh, well, the vibe of, and it's like, eh, not science.

Definitely.

Yeah.

They, they throw around real science terms like ions, electrons, grounding, but they're twisting them so they sound like proof.

And these studies that Ober did and the ones his website cites, they make no sense.

So according to Karen Livesey, who's an associate professor of theoretical physics at the University of Newcastle, she says grounding has long been used as a a physics term where it refers to the process of removing a buildup of too much positive or negative charge.

Okay.

So that's like what you would do with an item.

So the idea is in earthing is that a lack of grounding is making humans sick.

Okay, but that's maybe, what does she think about that?

Right, you're right.

So, but Dr.

Livesey, she's calling bullshit on this.

So she's saying our cells, our neurons, our immune responses, they all communicate through electrical charge, but it takes more than static and rubber souls to mess that up, right?

We're highly evolved.

The thing that gets cited incorrectly is that there are certain diseases and poisons that are cured by the right charge.

Like,

it gets confusing because in things like epilepsy, that is caused by an excess burst of electrical activity in the brain.

You know, spider and snake venom can interfere with the movement of our electrical charges, which can damage or even kill neurons, which that's what causes paralysis when you get bit.

But she's emphasizing that, quote, from a physics point of view, there's no process I can think of where a surplus or lack of electrons on the surface of our body could influence our health.

There are 10 octillion, that's a one with 28 zeros after it, 10 octillion electrons in our body.

Being short by a few electrons is not going to change how our bodies use electricity to work.

So walking barefoot, not exactly a medical breakthrough.

This is good news, I suppose, for us who were wondering how we were going to navigate an airport bathroom with no shoes on.

Oh, gross.

Yeah.

You ever see the people who are on the plane and go to the bathroom in their socks and you're like, oh, you are psycho.

Oh, my God.

RFK.

Yeah.

It just, your socks are absorbing everything that's on that bat.

That's not water.

That's all I'm saying.

Are there studies on earthing that offer any kind of proof, though?

I mean, surely they cite stuff.

What are they trying?

They're trying to prove it, right?

Yeah, right.

It's all kind of phony.

So on Ober's site, earthing.com, they claim there's 26 scientific studies, but I dug into those earthing and grounding studies, and the majority are authored by all the same handful of people.

And the few that are peer-reviewed, when you click on a reference, it takes you to another study with the same exact set of authors.

So it's incredibly deceiving.

They cite each other in this feedback loop.

They use the vague language.

The sample sizes are small.

They'd get kicked out of a high school science fair.

Okay.

So reading a bit of those studies, I think anyone with some research literacy would realize it's just objectively bad science.

But they're on the same database as all the other peer-reviewed stuff.

So, for everyday people just looking for cures and relief and trying in good faith to do their own research, it's pretty misleading.

Do your own research!

Don't believe the mainstream media.

Do your own research.

That's what I did during the quarantine.

I bought a laboratory, beakers, and test tubes, and a white smock.

I got a vintage Petri dish off the eBay, and I got all my clinical trials lined up, and my double-blind case studies.

And then I got like 300 or so COVID patients off of a Craigslist ad promising free cheese sandwiches.

And then

I just drowned them as witches.

Because what the f do I know about research?

A scientist do your own research in the book?

No, I just sewed her up in a burlap sack of stones and I chucked her in the lake.

What the f do I know?

Just straight up Salem witch trial.

Get the drink, lady.

If she doesn't drown, COVID's a hoax.

Yeah, it's misleading.

It raises a bigger question.

Who's vetting what ends up in these journals?

And they're just tens of thousands of medical journals.

So many are questionable.

Shouldn't there be more vetting?

I think I did a show on this a long time ago about how most of the stuff has never been replicated or tried to replicate.

So you just have no idea if the science is real and half the stuff that gets, more than half the stuff that gets published.

Yeah, it's overwhelming.

Yeah, it's overwhelming.

It seems like on the earthing site, they went through a lot of effort to make this look scientific when it definitely isn't with the whole circular.

citation thing and like they're just kind of hoping people go look there's science on there i mean i'm not going to read it but you can.

And then you actually did.

And it's like, this is not real science.

Right, exactly.

People are trusting when your graphic designer is good, you know?

Yeah.

Totally.

But a lot gets through the cracks.

I mean, my basic rules for anyone out there diving into their own scientific and medical research is if you see an exclamation mark in a paper, which a lot of these have, you know, you've got a problem.

If it draws conclusions in the intro or calls something a miracle, run, delete.

Like, just don't read it further.

The data should speak for itself.

It's a typical wellness thing where there's claims people can relate to versus the evidence from studies that no one wants to read.

Or the voice of someone like Yale neurologist Dr.

Stephen Novella, who critically examined the concept of earthing and grounding and found zero legitimacy in its claims.

This episode is sponsored in part by Jessica's Vagina Egg Emporium.

We'll be right back.

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Now, back to Skeptical Sunday.

I mean, to be fair, if people are reading these BS studies, believing them because they look official, I actually think that's understandable.

Most people aren't going to read a study.

And if they do, they're going to go, well, there's certainly a lot here.

They're not going to go, oh, this one cited the other one.

It's the same guy.

Yeah, of course.

I mean, I don't even know if I would bother to dig that deep.

That's why I have you.

Yeah, right.

I mean, you're not going.

It's exhausting to go through these studies and see the links.

And if it, you know, seems plausible in a tiny little meme, you're going to believe that.

But I mean, people also have to have some accountability.

If you're not getting medical treatment because you've seen research that says just go for a walk barefoot, I mean, that's dangerous.

Yeah.

Plus, you know, our minds are powerful too.

And we've all felt our shoulders drop out in nature.

So it seems plausible, but we're just, we're just fooling ourselves.

Right.

It's a placebo at best.

So static electricity is not building up in me like I'm a Tesla coil while I sit here at this desk.

No, definitely not.

Static is temporary.

It's just like rubbing that balloon on the kid's head.

You know, the charge builds.

You touch something.

It releases.

This happens all the time without us even realizing it.

And there's zero health benefits.

It's just sparks and frizzy hair.

I see.

So the whole earthing thing is pseudoscience.

And yet earthing techniques are practiced sworn by.

I know health people that bring, they carry this crap with them when they go.

I don't know.

It's just silly to me.

But surprise, surprise, people are putting eggs in their vadge.

So whatever.

Right, right.

I mean, yeah, it seems intuitive, the whole idea of it, you know, in our natural state, humans were more in contact with the ground.

People want that to matter in ways it doesn't.

And so it's easy to believe we somehow lost something.

Yeah, appeal to nature fallacy, appeal to the ancients fallacy.

Basically, if something's natural, it's better and it's healthy.

If it's unnatural, that's bad.

And if the ancestors or the ancients did something, it's got to be better than what we do now, something, something wisdom of the ages that's been lost.

So, yeah, I tried to get in touch with nature recently and I set up the slip and slide for my kids.

And I can assure you that is not grounded because it's one of those inflatable ones.

And I was like, oh, I'm going to take a flying leap.

Yeah, the weight limit's 100 pounds.

Oh, no.

So, or 105 pounds.

I am more than 105 pounds.

So I didn't land on a cushy, inflatable slip and slide.

I landed on the ground, the turf, hard, and I got a purple butt cheek.

I don't know why I shared that at all.

That again has nothing to do with the episode.

But some earthers might tell you that counts.

That way you were earthing.

Great.

I mean, even the earthing community isn't on the same page.

You know, some say you absolutely have to touch earth directly.

Dirt, grass, ocean, falling off a slip and slide, whatever.

Others believe you can get the same benefits by using special electrical conduction products.

Yeah, so this is what my friend has.

I've mentioned him a second ago.

He brings an earthing mat to hotels.

So he stands on a mat in a hotel that's like, you know, 30 floors up in Manhattan.

And he's like, I'm grounding.

Make it make sense.

You're not on the ground.

Your whole room is.

I mean, he's probably just taking some deep breaths, though, and feeling better.

Maybe, yeah.

Further, we say stuff like, you seem grounded down to earth, like it means something.

I did a podcast while sitting on a grounding mat to heighten my experience.

And I fidgeted the whole time because the cord was under my ass.

Man, yeah.

But the people who gave you that mat, they want it to make a difference.

You know, they think it's affecting us emotionally.

And there's like a poetic connotation to balance, connectedness, slowing down.

And that's what people are craving and experiencing.

So the earth part, it's all metaphor.

You know, grounding is not a scientific diagnosis.

Okay, so you mentioned free radicals earlier.

Remind me, that's electrons flying in or flying out.

I forget which.

I mean, simply free radicals have an electron flying out, and it's looking to steal electrons from other molecules.

So, this is a good spot in the episode, I think, to give a shout out to the humble proton.

I see.

The opposite to an electron charge-wise, I assume.

Wow, the proton's so sad they never get enough love.

They don't.

They don't.

And the proton, you know, it's a charged particle that balances the electron, and it's actually a hydrogen ion.

So there's actually a proton disease, another thing that gets blurry by the earthing community.

So too many of these hydrogen ions or protons in the stomach, that occurs when we have too much acid, and that's what gives us ulcers.

And the fix for that is something people might be familiar with.

It's a proton pump inhibitor.

But it's the drugs that are soaking up the protons, not a barefoot walk in the woods.

Ah, the humble proton, causing indigestion to untold millions.

So yeah, so people think it's earthing, and it's like, could be the antacid you took.

Just saying.

Right, yeah.

I mean, and diet, exercise, those sorts of things, they're reducing our oxidative stress, which is free radicals.

So foods, real stress management mops up free radicals almost certainly more effectively than lying on some

weird earthing mat.

Got it.

Okay, speaking of which, what about other earthing products?

Do they do anything to aid in our health?

I mean, earthing jacket, probably not.

Earthing mat, probably not.

Jade egg in the vagina?

Question mark.

I don't know.

It's just, it's just no.

It's like full stop.

But there's so many of these products for sale.

There's the grounding mats.

There's copper threaded sheets.

Oof.

Yoga mats with wires.

None of them are proven to work.

There's just no evidence that sort of plugging your bed into an outlet cures.

anything.

What do you mean sort of plugging it in?

Well, I mean, most of these products plug plug into the third hole of outlets and the third hole does nothing.

I'm not sure about that.

All right, Jordan, get your mind out of the gutter, God.

Yeah.

We can call it the third prong then.

Oh, giggity, giggity, giggity, goo.

Fine.

Okay, fine, fine.

But just go look in an outlet.

The one on the bottom, it does absolutely nothing if nothing is plugged into the other two prongs.

It's just a safety component for when something is plugged in to catch stray electrons and ground them.

But these grounding and earthing products, they aren't live.

They're just a scam.

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Sounds like it.

Yeah.

There was a 2023 article I read that it argued indoor earthing equipment and products don't and can't control for all the different factors that influence biological grounding.

So simply put, these researchers said that even if all the claims about indoor earthing products were true the product's effectiveness would still vary wildly for reasons that are just beyond your control this includes things like soil moisture levels and the quality of electrical mains ground connections stuff like that yeah i was wondering it's like so you're just trusting that this third hole just goes straight into the ground and the ground is receptive to whatever crap is coming off your body i mean come on power of the mind anyway the placebo effect it's not nothing by the way so if somebody feels better doing this okay sure sure but money not well spent though.

Right.

You know, the placebo effect is real, but it's not magic electrons.

It just bums me out to see people grifted, especially about their health.

And let's not confuse this correlation with causation.

You know, grounding wires protect electrical systems from overloads like lightning, but that's way more electricity than your body is.

ever, ever, ever dealing with.

Plus, you know, think about it.

If you're buying a special mat to sleep on, you're probably also doing other things to feel feel better.

Like you're just showing you care about your health.

Yeah, but the marketing is very slick.

They wrap it up in Eastern wisdom, spiritual vibes, testimonials, slick e-commerce kind of experience.

Right.

Look, I respect indigenous and Eastern culture, traditions, whatever, the harmony with nature.

I get it.

But turning that philosophy into a wellness grift that doesn't do anything.

That's always been a problem for me, which is why we're here.

People would buy well-marketed dirt if it was for sale.

Actually, they're probably already there.

Surely that exists.

I news for you.

Yes.

Earthing.com oversight, they don't sell dirt, but

there is earthing dirt, like specifically marketed for earthing that is for sale on Etsy and Amazon.

Okay.

Look, I've seen $300 earth-tone yoga blankets, but actual dirt, that is actually brilliant.

You just buy a bag of dirt for five bucks and then you sell it for $55.

I know.

What are we doing wrong here?

And the products are endless.

You know, like go to earthing.com, check out his site.

The funny thing is, it doesn't tout all the free practices you can do.

It doesn't lay out the science.

It just sells products like earthing rods and shoes and blankets and mattress pads.

There's these adhesive patches and earthing strips that,

you know, say, put these on your skin and you'll see that the, you know, it pulls out these electrons because the...

patch changes color but oh my god you can take the patch and put it on the wall it'll change color it's just

it oxidizes or something yeah yeah yeah exactly So, I mean, if you could walk in the grass for free, why is he pushing a copper-threaded blanket and magnets plunged into the third prong of your outlet?

I mean, people must love the ritual or they live in high-rise buildings.

I don't know.

I know, but it would be way more helpful to encourage people to go outside, to actually sit in the grass, to unplug, take a deep breath for free.

I mean, that does have benefits, but we just can't pretend it's physics.

Take that prong out of your third hole and relax.

Take that prong out of you.

And don't fall for the sales pitch of wellness companies, you know, making more and more money from you just for the crap.

Yeah.

We need to be super skeptical about the money grabs.

The global earthing equipment market was valued at over $5 billion in 2003, and it's projected to reach over $9 billion by 2032.

Wow.

I was going to say those words are charged.

That is so much money, though.

What a waste.

Yeah.

Holy smokes.

It's a lucrative industry.

And it's dedicated to bringing the benefits of the great outdoors inside.

But, I mean, just go outside.

Don't spend the money.

Yeah.

So literally the whole thing is a scam top to bottom.

I think so.

I mean, my skepticism always grounds me into thinking that if this worked and cured everything, wouldn't it be used, improved?

Wouldn't we be talking about it all the time?

I mean, these products, you know, we discussed products on our hangover episode and people responded about things that work for them.

But I really thought about it.

And yeah, if you're being mindful enough to be taking deliberate steps for your health, whether it's taking a pill before drinking or plugging your bed into an outlet that doesn't work, I mean, you're probably being mindful about other healthful things, which is also contributing to your lack of pain or symptoms or helping you mentally feel better, like just staying hydrated, taking breaks for self-care, diet, and exercise.

That all affects us.

Yeah.

So these dubious devices have have zero real evidence that they do anything at all.

I went to hiking in the Grand Canyon and somebody brought an earthing mat.

I mean, what?

Yeah, yeah.

That's incredible marketing to think that you would need that earthing mat at the Grand Canyon.

Well, are there outlets at the Grand Canyon?

I mean, that's.

I will let you guess.

There's not even cell phone service in the Grand Canyon.

You can die out there, but at least you won't be, I don't know, positively charged or something or negatively charged.

That bums me out because it's taking away from that person's experience.

I mean, there's just no research establishing the basic claim that an electrical homeostasis has any effect on how our bodies function.

If it worked, it'd be in hospitals, not hiding on some influencer's Instagram.

You know, you can look back.

Doctors used to prescribe time at the seaside, but they stopped because it doesn't heal anything.

Yeah, that's a great point.

I remember all those like, go to this cave to cure your tuberculosis.

Go to the seaside because it cures things.

This is a really good point if you're mindful enough to buy the mat you're probably doing yoga you're drinking water you're managing stress you're taking your vitamins you're working out right that's probably what's helping regardless of what is in your third hole or whatever right totally i mean i think there's a simpler reason people feel better after quote-unquote earthing they're outside they're moving They're breathing fresh air.

They're getting sunlight.

You know, we're always on our devices.

We're always rushing.

So just slowing down and putting your feet in the grass, it might make you feel good.

Being present, it's powerful.

But you don't need a pseudo-scientific bedtime story to enjoy a hike.

Right.

Yeah.

Now available exclusively from Goop and Gwyneth Paltrow taking a walk around the f ⁇ ing block for a limited time only, $99.99.

Yeah.

It's interesting how science and spirituality sometimes bump into each other, though, right?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, if this was a cure-all, though, wouldn't it mean every landscaper is more healthy than an office worker?

A grave digger is healthier than a hospital employee.

Farmers would be healthier than teachers.

I mean, I surf a lot.

I'm barefoot on the beach several times a week because of where I live.

It clears my head.

You can't bring a phone on a surfboard, but I still live with like an incurable autoimmune disease that gets worse as I age.

You know, I have to take a pill every day.

I still get sick more often than I'd like.

Other things plague me.

Being barefoot all the time, it doesn't cure anything.

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Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday.

I hike a lot, but I never take my shoes off because, you know, stuff bites and there's sharp stuff.

Yeah.

It still helps me unwind.

Plus, I want to get away from emails and phone calls and that pretty much does it.

Yeah.

Right.

You're, you're slowing down.

You're going for a walk.

You're letting yourself relax.

You don't want a rusty nail in your foot.

Again.

Like all these effects, they can happen inside on a treadmill.

Did you say again?

Sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

It's okay.

Those effects could happen on a treadmill too, inside.

It's not earthing magic.

It's mindfulness.

Yes.

And yet earthing is exploding in popularity.

I see earthing and grounding hashtags all over the place.

That Netflix documentary, I think, did pretty well.

Yeah.

I mean, it's huge on social media.

The earthing documentary, it was on YouTube.

Oh, YouTube.

It has over 5 million views.

It launched this whole trend when it came out in 2019, and

it was really good timing.

It became really popular during the pandemic.

Is the documentary worth watching?

I already know the answer to this question, I think.

Yeah, I watched it for you.

It's biased, of course.

It's marketing disguised as enlightenment.

You know, they say it has cutting-edge research and world-class experts, but it's just quacky chiropractors, longevity influencers, people selling stuff.

There's one retired cardiologist in it.

His name's Sinatra, which is fun.

But everyone else seems to be on the take.

Like there's one quote-unquote expert who says he tells knee surgery patients to walk barefoot in the grass.

That's fine, but it's basic rehab.

It's not medicine.

So, meanwhile, they never once explain what grounding or earthing actually is in the whole movie.

There's no definition, there's no science, it's just testimonials and links to websites.

Oh my gosh, it's like, hey, hey, go for a walk in the grass barefoot.

Oh, okay.

It must be the grass and that I'm barefoot.

No, man, we're just trying to get you to walk because I did surgery on your knee and I'm trying to hide the ball instead of telling you to walk because you won't do that, but you will go walk barefoot on the grass.

If it's all anecdotal, that's always problematic.

I will obviously skip watching the documentary.

It sounds like you could swap out earthing with, I don't know, CBD or cold plunges or drinking celery juice, and it's just the same script.

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, also in the movie, they don't mention that Clint Ober.

owns the product line that's featured in the film.

Right.

Okay.

That's a wild conflict of interest, right?

He's credited as the executive producer and he basically is the movie.

He's the main star.

So it's like if L.

Ron Hubbard wrote and starred in a documentary about how Dianetics and Scientology cured his back pain.

I'm almost positive that exists.

Yeah.

Fun.

Another pseudoscience marketing cult.

Is there a line like in the documentary?

I assume there's a line like, this is the truth.

Your doctor won't tell you.

I think they might say that exactly.

For sure.

Why not?

While you're out there, you know?

And it ends with, you know, like and subscribe and click here to buy our crazy products.

And oh, one guy said you should walk barefoot on the freeway because

rubber tires, something, I don't know.

Obligatory.

Yeah.

Another influencer said her sacred earthing pillowcase improved her aura.

Ah, but there's something you could never falsify because it's.

totally not real.

I don't understand what a sacred earthing pillow is.

It sounds flammable.

And never walk on the freeway barefoot or not.

That is super dangerous and super illegal for very good reason.

That's a great way to get hit by at least one car and kill somebody.

Yeah, and just, oh, what are you walking on?

I mean, what sucks about all of this is that people are, I think, in good faith.

They're looking for answers.

And especially post-pandemic, there's more skepticism around medicine.

You know, that's on the rise.

And it makes earthing seem really attractive.

I wonder if it became more popular post-pandemic because people did seem to go for more walks when everything was shuttered in 2020.

And at the same time, they also distrusted science a lot more.

Yeah.

I mean, for sure.

We, we were disconnected with nature.

You know, we're on our screens.

And so during the pandemic, yeah, you're right.

I think a lot of people did get out more.

But earthing is just selling this fantasy of reconnection.

It's crazy the idea of enjoying nature being monetized.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean we should be doing these normal or there's some extreme earthing practices like the freeway walking.

Oh, yeah, that's extreme.

Yeah.

So is there anything more extreme or on the same level as freeways barefoot freeway strolls?

I mean, it's a real thing some people are really proud of.

You know, it's practices like walking barefoot in the snow, going out in really heavy rain.

running long distance through rough terrain and mud and fasting in the woods while naked.

You know, some people insist on sleeping directly on the ground, which obviously can be dangerous.

You know, those those who take earthing to extreme physical levels, they're just searching for this deeper connection to the earth's energy, but it can be really dangerous.

You know, you could get frostbite to the point of losing toes, which has happened to some people.

Scalding burns.

I mean, I don't get the connection to the pavement.

That just seems illogical.

I remember seeing just absolute maniacs who never wear shoes walking around NYC, New York City, on freaking Broadway and in the subway when I lived there.

And that can't be good.

And I sort of get it.

Look, if you live in a rural North Carolina farm area and you're walking around barefoot, okay, fine.

Manhattan, just why?

Who said to me, you just litter down the street.

Don't you care about the environment?

And I thought about it and I said, you know what?

This isn't the environment.

This is New York City.

This is not the environment.

This is where people live.

New York City is not the environment.

New York City is a giant piece of litter.

Yeah.

And the people who are walking barefoot in New York City, are they actually earthing?

Like you're not touching earth.

Exactly.

I get it.

If you live in a really big high-rise city, you can feel very far away from nature.

I understand.

It can feel like you're a very, very long way from that natural earth state, unless you're in Central Park or something.

But yeah, there's like three floors of pipes and subway below you.

You're not earthing, bro.

So are there colonies or communities for extreme earthing?

Like a, you know, like a nudist colony, but just for barefeet people, barefoot people?

I don't know if there's

actual communities, but nudist earthing is definitely a thing.

I guess you have no choice at that point, right?

Might as well.

That practice goes way back, too.

Good old Benjamin Franklin was a big believer in sunbathing naked every morning.

He called it his air bath.

But he still suffered from gout and syphilis and who knows what else.

Yeah.

There's just no connection that these practices heal anything like is claimed.

I mean, I think for most people, it's low risk, but there are safety hazards associated with earthing.

And I think most of them are probably, you know, pretty obvious.

Syphilis, huh?

Wow.

That's another skeptical Sunday, I suppose.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sunday.

Bathing naked.

It sounds like a great way to get a sunburned dog.

God.

Hard pass.

Or in my case, at nearly 46 years of age, semi-hard pass.

Oh, wow, Jordan.

Yeah.

I'm on fire today.

Sun your perennium for a minute a day and you'll never be sad again.

Google perennium, kids, on your work computer.

Yeah.

Right.

While earthing seems harmless, you know, it's not always advisable.

Sure, walking barefoot in nature, it's accessible, it's free, but there are a few landmines.

Like if you have a chronic medical condition, you know, like reduced sensation in your feet from diabetes is common.

So walking barefoot on hot pavement or rocky trails, not a good idea because you

know you could get injured without even noticing.

Plus, you have to think about allergic reactions.

The soil's full of bacteria and parasites and whatever your neighbor's pets left behind.

Yeah, nothing like reconnecting with the earth and catching ringworm or something from it.

Gross.

God.

I mean, earthing websites even warn that earthing may make you feel worse before it makes you feel better.

Whatever that is supposed to mean.

That's exactly what it means is you're going to catch dirt syphilis and be like, what the heck?

And they're like, oh, we covered that on one of the lines where we said it might make you feel worse.

That is not a wellness claim.

It seems like the real danger is the scam on desperate people looking to feel better and cure something.

Yeah, I mean, true.

The more rigorous research is needed to confirm if there's any substantial health benefits.

You know, yeah, you might sleep better, but it's because you've been more active at the beach or on a picnic than a usual day.

So definitely go to parks, touch trees, get out into those natural areas sometimes, but it should be a complement to, not a replacement for evidence-based medicine.

So some online resources for earthing can contain medical misinformation.

So read about this topic with a really critical eye.

You know, earthing likely has some mental health benefits, but you don't need products and it can't, as some claim, cure diseases or take the place of modern medicine.

I mean, I guess I do earthing and don't even realize it, but it's maybe that's why vacations feel so good.

So, the advice here, yeah, go outside.

Yes, touch trees.

Yes, lie in the grass.

Don't replace your medication with dirt or contact with dirt.

Right, please take your meds.

You know,

whether it's placebo or not, if it helps someone feel more grounded mentally, physically, whatever, maybe that's enough.

So, yeah, get outdoors, visit nature, but just don't let yourself get grifted.

Thanks, Jessica.

I'm going to follow my kids' lead and roll down a hill and make sure I don't get anything stuck in that pesky third hole.

Thanks, everybody, for listening.

Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday, directly to meet Jordan at jordanharbinger.com.

Show notes on the website, advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

You can find Jessica on her sub stacks.

That's more than one.

Between the lines and where shadows linger.

We'll link to that in the show notes as well.

This show is created in association with Podcast One.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tadas Sedlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mazrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own.

And I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer.

And I'm not a pre-PhD in earthing because that doesn't exist.

So do your own research before it.

Well, do some real research before implementing anything you hear on the show.

And remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love.

If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we we doled out today.

Maybe, maybe force them to listen to this while they're standing outside or plugged into that mat in the hotel and they can't go anywhere.

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And we'll see you next time.