1210: Can Justice Be Done When Broke and on the Run? | Feedback Friday

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Welcome to Feedback Friday.

I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.

As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the apothecary, helping me concoct these mysterious potions of life wisdom, Gabriel Mizrahi.

I love that word.

Apothecary is such a good word.

First of all, it sounds so like medieval.

Yes.

It gives me Shakespeare vibes.

You know what they call pharmacies here in Germany, right?

Oh, that's right.

Apoteca.

That's probably a really old word.

Apoteca.

Yeah.

How funny is that?

Every time I pass one, I'm like, what tinctures and poultices are you guys cooking up in here?

But really, it's just the CVS of Germany.

Yeah, it sounds so much cooler.

Imagine.

I mean, in the States, if you're like, I'm running to the apothecary, bro.

Anything?

Band-aids, Gatorade?

Yeah.

Something to poison yourself if you cannot be with your one true love.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Give me two Elizabethan tinctures and some icy hot and oh, a bunion wrap, please.

What is that?

Wow, you really are.

If anybody had any doubts that you were really in Europe, there it is.

You heard that.

Yeah.

The siren.

The

World War II era siren.

That's the soundtrack I've I sleep to every night.

Yeah.

I don't know why, but especially on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights, the sirens all night long in my neighborhood.

And I wonder what they're dealing with.

Like, I live in not a bad neighborhood, but it's a little

in the midst of gentrifying, I would say.

Yeah, mixed coming.

Yeah.

So are they just driving to overdoses and bar fights?

I don't know what's happening.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Overdoses, probably primary injuries.

Maybe they're responding to like various Luften injuries.

Are you familiar?

Luften, I mean, it means like winds or breezy or airs, maybe.

It's basically the practice of leaving your windows open so that you get a nice draft in the apartment or in the house.

That's got to be like a West German thing.

You think?

I don't feel like we had that in East Germany.

Yeah.

But then again, I lived in a house.

I didn't live in an apartment.

Did you guys not have windows in East Germany?

Well, you're trying to keep out the lead acetate from the chemical factory adjacent to the neighborhood.

No, of course.

but I don't remember it being specifically a thing.

You know what, though?

Actually, now that you mention it, my host mother, she did open the window.

Like, you know how they have those slanty windows that open at the top?

Yes.

She would do that in the morning.

And it's a good idea because, you know, you got a teenager sleeping in a bedroom.

That bedroom stinks in the morning, period.

It seems like a good policy wherever you live, but the Germans have really elevated Luften to like a life philosophy.

And actually, one of my friends was telling me that the landlords write it into the rental agreements.

Like they require the tenants to open the windows.

Yeah.

Probably keeps the mold at bay if you've got friends.

It's a mold thing.

Okay.

That's exactly it.

Yeah, no one cares.

On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most famous people.

Why do we always get onto windows at the top of the show?

It's not me doing it.

It's not really me doing it.

I'm just going to

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We decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, astronauts, investigative journalists, Russian spies, cold case homicide investigators.

This week, we had Dr.

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This time we talked about Reudrage, GLP-1 drugs, associated health and fitness topics like what AI and future drugs are going to do.

to and for our bodies.

He's irreverent, a little bit controversial as usual.

We had a lot of fun.

On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and indulge weird assignments about Germany-specific rental agreements.

Apparently, Gabe, you seem totally exhausted, but on the other hand, weirdly glowing, rejuvenated in some way.

Hello there, it's producer Jason here.

Just a quick note: if you'd like to skip to this week's first question and miss out Jordan and Gabe's story here, you can do so by skipping to 23 minutes and 20 seconds.

Now, enjoy the show.

I am so tired, my dude.

Yeah, I feel so depleted.

It's not even funny, but I had the best couple of weeks I've had in a very long time.

Did you get some new cashew butter-based face cream from the Apoteca, or is this just the road trip through Central Europe what did it to you?

Definitely the road trip.

It was one of the best things I've ever done.

I texted you because I was like, I want to be in a car pulling into Prague right now as I was like in a dental chair getting a cleaning.

Although that, I know you would rather, you would have wanted to switch places with me, actually.

Oh my God, which one would I rather do?

What a conundrum.

Like you're pulling into Prague to get a croissant and some coffee and I'm like, I wish I was there.

And I'm like, I have somebody scraping plaque off of my incisors and you're like, ah,

gels.

Cut to me at a palace in Prague, Googling a local dentist.

That is your habit.

All of my favorite things.

That's right.

For those who don't know, is it fair to say one of your favorite things is getting your teeth cleaned?

Is that fair?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

I look forward to it.

In fact, I just rescheduled my appointment for when I'm coming back to the States for three weeks so I can do it while I'm in LA if I haven't been able to do it here.

Oh my gosh.

Anyway.

Yes, you texted me with your FOMO and I understood it.

Yes.

It was so cool, man.

I just rented a car and I did it.

It was just so spontaneous and it just came together in the best way.

And I just, I didn't even plan anything.

I just put one foot in front of the other, no fixed plan, looked at the map in the morning.

Every morning, I would book the hotel for that night.

or the Airbnb for that night.

And I just knew I wanted to end up in Munich.

But aside from that, I was kind of open to whatever came up along the way.

So it was amazing.

First stop was Leipzig.

Saw the epic Battle of the Nations monument there.

I don't know if you've ever seen that.

Yeah.

So I actually, when I was an exchange student, I went to high school in Halle, which is like adjacent to.

So they call it Halle-Leipzig.

It's like, it's kind of like, oh, it's one of those things that is two cities, but they're so close together and that they're starting to bleed into each other almost.

It's like a metro area.

I was thinking about you because I saw it on all the street signs and I was wondering how close it was.

Yeah, now I understand the East Germany thing that you've been talking about for so long.

Yes.

Even though integration has happened slash has been happening for decades, it really does feel like another universe.

It's so different.

Yeah, look, it's been 35 years or something since reunification, which is imagine a person who was born then is now 35, has their own kids.

But when I was there, it was the 90s.

And it was kind of like, for somebody who was, let's say, 40, it was kind of like, yeah, a few years ago, this was a communist country that had secret police so that you would get shot if you you tried to leave illegally.

Wild.

So like all my teachers and stuff were kind of like, I guess we're like a free country now.

Like it was almost like they didn't even almost believe it really.

And I remember talking with people, this is a whole show, but I remember talking with my host father and being like, so did you ever look at your Stasi file, like your secret police file?

And he's like, nah.

Can you access this?

You can, but they have counselors.

upstairs in the same building because you'd go in and you'd be like, I want to see my Stasi file.

And you'd find out that like your wife was spying on you.

Oh, wow.

And you'd be like, oh, I need to like emotionally deal with this right now.

Damn.

So some people just didn't even want to look at the file.

No, because imagine like you had a hunch that your kids were spying on you and you have a good relationship with them now and you're like, do I want to like know that my kids were rolling over on me

or my wife or my best friend was and the reason he did it is because they had some dirt on him and he was screwing my wife.

Like you don't want to stir the pot because now you're like, that regime is over and nobody's going to get shot for being a collaborator.

Let's let sleeping dogs lie.

A lot of people had that mentality.

Wow.

We have German listeners.

I would love to hear their perspective in my email about this, actually.

I find it endlessly fascinating.

Driving through, obviously, I couldn't feel that kind of stuff, but you definitely feel the influence of that East German planning.

Like the cities are not designed for cars and driving in Leipzig was a nightmare.

It was so stressful.

Leipzig is an old city, which I don't know.

Was it completely flattened during World War II?

Probably.

So the Soviets were just like, hey, let's build this.

There's only going to be 100 cars in the whole city for officials, so we don't really need like major roads or anything.

That was my sense.

Yeah, it was really designed for bicycles.

Everyone's biking.

But when you're driving, you're like sandwiched in between cars and then also driving alongside the tram and having to figure out when to drive and when to cross the track so you don't get hit by a tram.

Right.

It was very intense.

Oh, this just reminded me.

I had such a funny conversation in Weimar.

Have you ever been to this town called Weimar?

Yeah, I mean, it was like an old capital, I believe, of Germany.

Really old.

Wasn't it?

It's in between Leipzig and Nuremberg.

Yeah.

And as far as I know, it's only famous for being the home of Goethe for a time and also being the birthplace of the Constitution for the Weimar Republic, which I happen to love.

I take it back.

Weimar, by the way, was not the capital of Germany.

It's the temporary meeting place for the National Assembly after World War I.

Yes, that makes more sense.

Since there was a civil war and unrest, they didn't convene in Berlin.

It was too unstable.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, didn't know that.

So I pulled into Weimar because there was a little pit stop on the way to Nuremberg and I had the car.

And as you know, it's kind of a nightmare to park in a lot of these cities.

And so I pull into this real vampire-y town.

I mean, beautiful, but just, you know, there might be vampires in this town.

And it's all cobblestone.

And there's a beautiful church and cute little shops.

Like the main part of town is maybe two or three blocks.

And I find the one parking spot in this town.

I got really excited.

I don't know, man.

You and parking spots in other cities, never really a good idea.

That was on my mind while I parked.

And I'm glad you brought that up because I was like, is this going to happen?

I've got to read the signs very carefully.

I took a picture of all the signs when I parked and put them into ChatGPT to make sure that I was understanding them correctly because I didn't need a repeat of what happened in Portugal.

So I pull into this spot and I had to pee so badly.

Like I was like, I can't wait to run into the nearest restaurant and just use a bathroom.

So I park, but I'm like, well, I don't know if the parking is okay.

And I can't find the parking sign on this block.

So just at that moment, a woman and her daughter were passing by walking their bicycles down the sidewalk.

And I asked them, sorry, excuse me, do you speak English?

Yes, of course.

And I was like, oh, cool.

Do you, is it okay to park here?

And they looked at me very somberly, like, no, no.

And I was like, oh, okay.

And they're like, this is for, I'm not going to attempt to do the dialect so as to not alienate our European fans.

But they were like, no, this is for residents only.

And I was like, cool.

And I started nodding, like doing the math in my head.

Like, am I really going to keep driving around looking for a spot or am I going to risk it?

Cause I have to pee so badly.

And then I was like, okay, how would I have known that?

Because I can't find the sign.

And they're like, well, there's a sign at the other end of the block, whatever they explain.

And I'm like, and then without my asking, the mother goes, okay, here's what you have to do.

And she starts giving me directions, like the most detailed, go 400 meters this way, make your first right, make your first left, go another 200 meters, you're going to find a park, make a left.

And when you get to the, and she turns to her daughter and goes, schloss, how do you say schloss?

And she goes, castle.

And she's like, yeah, yeah, at the castle, make a left.

And I just started, I had to fight down laughter because I was like, these are the most European directions I have ever had.

You would never have that conversation in the States.

If someone were giving you directions, they'd be like, go down a couple of blocks that way, make a right at the Burger King.

When you get to the guy doing fentanyl under the bridge, he's always there.

Make a left.

Those are our landmarks.

It was just, and the daughter looked at me and she could see that I was about to laugh.

And then she started almost laughing.

And we were both trying not to laugh while her mom is still going on about the directions.

And finally, she ends.

And she's like, and then there will be free parking.

I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

To be fair to mom, 100 meters is not really 100 meters.

That just means one block.

Yeah, it's not that bad.

For people who are like, 100 meters, oh my God, that's 300 feet.

Shoot, how long is that?

It doesn't matter.

It's just the block.

Those are fair directions, but you're right.

Germans can give very precise directions for their own neighborhood.

Like they will be like, I remember my host father would be like, avoid the pothole where the drain sticks up by turning right.

I'm like, people know that, dad, you know, like they're not going to just like bottom out the car on the cobblestone street because they don't know to turn around the drain.

I just like these hyper-specific landmarks that people are choosing.

But yeah, at the end of it, I was like, thank you for the most German directions I've ever received in my entire life.

And they both started laughing and just went on their way.

And I did not move the car.

I left it there, ran into the cafe.

The woman who owned the cafe got kind of mad at me.

And then I ordered a coffee, of course, just to make it okay.

Yeah.

And then I ran back to my car and everyone was looking at me like did you really leave the car we heard the whole conversation with the mom that's another thing that's changed about east germany though dude is if you had said i ran into americans once or twice during my year there and i remember they were like oh my god no one speaks english and i was like oh yeah that's the big lie everyone in germany speaks english no no no no darling everyone in west germany spoke english in the 90s everyone in east germany spoke german maybe russian if they were like a good student, but that's it.

Their Russian was like our Spanish, where you're like, I'll donde está el banyo.

Like, that was it.

And they didn't like Russians because they were occupiers.

So it was like, yeah, we speak Russian because they make us learn it in school, but we secretly hate it a lot of us.

And so the fact that, quote unquote, everyone would speak English, they would say, of course we speak English.

That never happened to me one single time when I was in East Germany.

Never.

That makes sense.

Most people spoke at least some English, but much less than in Berlin, of course.

Anyway, after that, I went to Nuremberg, which was stunning, and I don't have enough time to talk about it, but my God.

Cool Nazi stuff there.

I know that's a controversial take.

No, I mean, that's why I went.

I wanted to go to the courthouse where they did the trials, and I wanted to go to the, what do they call it?

The rally grounds where they've had all the meetings and stuff.

I should say anti-Nazi stuff, not cool Nazi stuff.

Cool, Nazi-related stuff to correct.

100% clear, folks.

Yeah, I'm glad you set the record straight.

Just in case anyone on the listening is wondering if we're secret Nazis.

Jordan thinks Nazis are cool.

I knew it was more than just a haircut.

You did that to yourself, yourself, bro.

Technically, my barber did it, but yeah, I paid for it.

And then I went to Munich.

And dude, I have to tell you something.

All these years of you meeting up with listeners in other cities, I now know.

Coolest thing ever.

It is the coolest thing ever.

So we have a lot of amazing listeners in a lot of cities who have been writing me and inviting me to come visit.

And I'm so grateful for all of these invitations.

We have two particularly awesome listeners in Munich, Arseni and Diana.

And these two listen to Feedback Friday together, which I always love.

I love hearing when couples listen to the show together and then debate how we responded to a letter or like get in fights about who's right about the best way to handle something.

I just love that.

But they listened to the show and they very generously invited me to come visit in Munich.

And they had an extra room and they said, if you're down to stay, I'm down.

And so it's a little bit of like an out there invitation.

And I wasn't sure, but I chatted with Arseni and we got along really well.

And I was like, yeah, I'm going to do this.

Let's do this.

And I was like, maybe I'll stay for a night, maybe two.

I went there.

We ended up having the greatest time, dude.

So I went down there and accepted their very kind invitation.

And we ended up having a threesome.

Sorry.

I can't.

I'm going to get my mind out of the gutter.

We had a great threesome.

Yeah.

It was a classic feedback Friday menage toile.

Sorry.

These are perfectly nice people.

I'm just slandering them.

King shaming.

Honestly, it was like that, but like an emotional menage toile, whatever that's called.

That's safer.

Is that just a really good hang?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, we just had a great time.

They were amazing hosts and took me around Munich a little bit.

More like just let me tag along with them, especially Arseni.

We just walked around, had a great time.

He showed me some cool stuff.

We worked together.

I had to prep the show.

He had to do some work.

Hung out, made dinner.

Ended up on my last night just watching like three or four episodes of Couples Therapy, which was

the most feedback Friday thing we could have done.

Yeah, right on theme.

It was really one of the highlights of my time in Europe.

It was just amazing.

I'm very grateful.

Thank you, Arseni and Diana, for the invitation and for the amazing time in Munich.

I really can't thank you guys enough.

But dude, is this what you have been experiencing all these years?

Like this instant family that you feel with everyone you meet.

It's just the connection is so it's phenomenal.

I mean, look, I love it.

I don't always do extended hangs because sometimes I just see people at cafes and then I get their email and then have to go run.

But like, I don't know.

The other weekend, Jen and I went out to dinner.

It's this like reservation in advance, a month in advance place that we go to.

They change the menu every month.

It's like a really small two-seating per-night restaurant.

And I always eat at the counter where the chefs cook with Jen, and there's only two other seats there.

So there was another couple, and this guy was like really outgoing and like borderline loud, but I was like, oh, he's so, he's got so much Riz.

I'm here for it.

Right.

It's like, he's really enjoying himself.

And the chefs are talking with him.

Did you realize that this story sounds like it's also heading in the direction of a threesome?

It does.

It does.

And so it sure does.

And then I'm just sitting there minding my own business, letting this guy sort of like run the show.

And he goes, Jordan Harbinger.

And I was like, how how did you recognize me and he goes i'm only looking at the side of your face it's perfect i was like oh that's really funny he's like yeah you just i just saw the show art uh behind this stage and laid it next to me and it turned out to be a show fan which actually makes a lot of sense and he was an adventure traveler like he just got back from antarctica and taiwan wow which is crazy cool and so we ended up talking the whole time and the restaurant staff was like you two know each other because there's not that many regulars who always sit at the counter and you guys just happen to know each other and i was like he listens to my show and they're like you have a show right because like who the hell What are you talking about?

So, yeah.

No, I love it.

I love doing that.

And it's always so random.

Look, that was in my community, but it's more random when you're in Taiwan or when you're in another country.

And someone's like, are you that guy from that thing?

It's like, yeah, this is pretty cool.

Because it often happens when I'm alone too.

And it's like, you know, you're kind of homesick and you don't know anyone.

And someone's like, are you Jordan Harbinger?

And you're like, this is really cool.

It's like someone delivering a slice of home or friendship to you when you're just sitting in an airport lounge.

And it's like, this is the most welcome thing ever.

So I know sometimes people hesitate to say hi because they're like, oh, he's probably busy.

This happens all the time.

Please, even if I'm wearing my headphones, tell me that you know about the show because it always makes my day.

And I know, I see people hesitate for like three hours at an airport lounge.

And I'm like, why, why'd you take so long?

Oh, you were listening to something or you were on a call.

I don't care.

Jordan is thirsty for a thrupple today.

Thirsty for validation.

What happened after Munich?

I know you headed down to, was it Vienna?

Vienna.

Yeah, that's right.

Where I met up with two other listeners, Minna and lena who were both amazing also mina took me to lunch and then this amazing japanese matcha place which is so funny she planned this based on what she knows about me from the show wow it's like this man needs matcha i'm she took me to this like very authentic intense japanese matcha place where i was i stayed up until four in the morning the matcha was so strong it was so intense We explored city center a bit and then Lena took me on this insane walking tour of Vienna.

Like, I've never done a tour like this.

She was so cool about it too.

Like, she didn't let let on that she had done her homework, but she did so much good homework.

I think one of her many careers in a past life, she's an artist, very talented artist, but she worked as a tour guide at one point, I think, in Peru.

So she was very good.

And she took me through like incredible architecture and through these Nazi Germany towers that they've since integrated into these like stunning parks in Vienna.

We went to the Sigmund Freud Museum, which was the one, that was my contribution.

It was the only thing I really knew I wanted to do in Vienna.

Had to go visit the OG, of course.

We grabbed dinner and then we went to an amusement park where they had some of the weirdest rides I have ever seen.

We didn't ride any of the rides, but we just walked around to look at the artwork because they have these statues that were incredible.

That was another highlight of Vienna.

Did you wear your pink Freud shirt?

Pink Freud, dark side of your mom?

Dark side of your mom.

No, I didn't pack that.

I didn't pack that way.

I should have.

How funny would I be roll up to the museum with that t-shirt?

Damn, I really wish I had packed that now.

Yeah, too late now.

Vienna is stunning.

It's got like a small, small town vibe, but it's a capital city.

It's very odd.

Very

So PC.

It is

too beautiful, though, man.

If wedding cake were a city, it would be Vienna.

Yeah.

The whole city does look like frosting in the winter.

I was like, how can you have so many stunning things here?

And then people just live here?

Like, you just, I see people jogging past the palaces, like in this open-air museum.

Blows my mind.

You need psychotic kings and dictators to get that kind of architecture.

Yeah.

You just don't produce that kind of stuff in a democracy, and especially our new one.

No, you do not.

Just freeway interchanges and CBS and free election.

Free election.

That's right.

Toss up which one's more useful.

No, it would be nice if we had some freaking palaces in this country, but be careful what you wish for because they might be the White House doesn't hold a candle to some of the stuff you see in Europe, but it's not too late.

He's got three more years to build himself a palace.

That's true.

And every president does do a bit of decorating, but the White House will always look like the guesthouse.

That's right.

The guesthouse of the third gardener in line for the throne.

No kidding.

Exactly.

Some of these places.

That's where they make the family live with the people they don't like.

Like, oh, you get the lame palace.

Man, there's so much I'm not telling you.

Like, so many other good things.

Like, we saw Marionette Theater, these tiny puppets, done by one of the oldest marionette troops in the world.

Like, stunning.

So cool.

It was one of the dopest things I've ever done.

Just a million things like that.

And then I drove to Prague because I needed a halfway point between Vienna and Berlin.

It's like an eight-hour drive.

So I stopped in Prague for one night and then I did one day there.

And it was stunning.

Have you been to Prague?

Yeah, I went to Prague recently, actually.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Central Europe.

Very spooky.

Talk about vampire vibes, like,

but beautiful place.

And yeah, I'm definitely going to go back because I need some more time there.

I like Prague.

I don't know what it is about that place, but I feel a little bit like a hot chick when I go to Prague.

I get a ton of attention from women there.

I don't know why.

I must have a look that looks good in the Czech Republic.

I mean, you do famously do well in Central Europe.

Yeah, it's one of those things.

Like, I remember I went with my parents several years ago to Prague on a tour, and I'd be on a bus with my parents and they'd go my mom would go so did you notice that the women were just staring at you and I was like yeah what was that she's like I don't know and it's not the haircut it's not the fasci that's a recent addition and I was like yeah that there were just three women that were not with each other just staring at me on the bus like just the whole ride and I remember that happening on multiple occasions where I'd walk down the street and like teenage girls would yell something at me in Czech and I would not understand and I'd be like what and they'd come come up and talk to me and be like, oh my God, you're foreigner.

And then like, they would just talk to me.

And it was so odd.

And so, yeah, I don't know who doesn't like that.

It might be, maybe it gets old if you live there, but it's great to know that, as you said before, Papa's still got it.

That's kind of nice.

With the girls my own age, typically a little bit more rewarding and way less creepy.

I'm going to stop talking now.

Get thee to an apotica, my friend.

Get thee, get thee to an apotic.

Yes.

Anyway, dude, so epic.

The people are everything.

Our show family is very special.

Every time I meet up with somebody who listens to the podcast, I just think we have the best audience ever.

I always have a blast.

Yeah, the Feedback Friday bond runs very deep, much deeper even than I knew.

I just feel like we're all very connected, and I'm so grateful to be a part of it.

Once you hop on the Dues Cruise, you're family for life.

All the drama just brings us closer together.

I love that you're now a traveling brand ambassador for Feedback Friday on the show.

Again, a little envious, not going to lie, and a little worried that our European listeners are going to be.

Horribly disappointed when they eventually meet me.

It's all downhill from here, folks.

All right, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a licensed registered nurse who took off several years to stay home to raise my two children.

Three years ago, I was hired by my child's school as a teacher's assistant and quickly gained a lot of close work relationships and rapport with the students.

I wanted to work a job that kept me close to my kids as we have no family nearby and my husband works crazy hours in public safety, making me the primary parent.

So when a health clerk position opened, I was highly encouraged to interview for it due to my background in nursing.

It was a natural fit, and I learned the job within just a few weeks.

My job is full-time and very intense.

I serve a population of 800 students and staff alone.

I'm the point of contact for all emergencies, and I see upwards of 50 students in my office daily, where I treat injuries and illnesses, contact parents, document office visits, keep records for all immunizations, and so much more.

But I make $19,000 a year with zero benefits.

Wow, that's insane.

For that amount of work, that is absolutely nuts.

I'm surprised to hear that, yeah.

After two months, my boss, the nurse manager, told me that my talents as an RN are entirely wasted in this role and said they had an open third nurse manager position they would hold for me.

The promotion would land me $75,000 a year and full benefits.

Great.

Wow.

Finally getting paid what you're worth.

The only problem, I don't have my bachelor's.

When I mentioned this, my boss told me that my name was already on the position and pestered me for months to start online school.

I finally did, and now I'm eight months into a 12-month BSN program.

Then, yesterday, I learned that they went ahead and hired another nurse outside of the district to fill the role that they had promised me.

I was blindsided.

Had they not goaded me, I wouldn't have gone back to school for a grueling program without having something lined up on the other side of graduation.

So now, here I sit, going through a costly and time-consuming program that I thought would be for a promotion, and all I got was disappointment and a flippant sorry from my boss.

I know nothing is guaranteed, but I can't help but feel let down and unsure where to go from here.

My motivation to continue in my current role is diminished.

I don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction because my feelings are hurt, but I also know that I'm worth much more.

Where do I go from here?

Signed, trying to hatch a play after my dream was snatched away.

First of all, I'm really sorry things went this way.

Your boss got your hopes up.

You put in a ton of work to satisfy the requirements for this role.

The stakes were super high.

Between the money and the benefits and the reward for all of this hard work and the pressure on you to provide and be the primary parent, man, you had pretty good reason to be excited.

And it really, yeah, it sucks that this didn't go your way.

It sucks.

I mean, you were going to make like four times the money.

And the fact that your boss wasn't more apologetic, that they didn't break this news more kindly, help you understand maybe why they made the decision, maybe help find other opportunities for you.

It just kind of makes everything worse.

So where do you go from here?

Well, I think you need to go go through the phase that you're in now, where you're angry and you're sad and you're stunned and you're hurt and you kind of feel like the wind's gone out of your sails.

You're mourning this job and everything that would have come with it.

Of course, you were looking at the vacations you were going to take, the debt you were going to pay off, the car you were going to buy, all that stuff.

The next phase is really going to be about coming to terms with this, easing into a new reality where you're two-thirds of the way through this degree, you're not getting your job, maybe you don't have a game plan yet, but you've settled into this timeline and it doesn't hurt as much.

And that might take a few weeks or a month or more.

I don't know, but it'll kind of happen on its own.

But once you get to that point of acceptance and maybe you're already getting there, that's where things get interesting because that's when you can start to look around and go, what do I want to do?

What's my new goal?

Do I want to apply for the same job in another school district?

Do I want to apply for a different role?

Are there any new opportunities popping up?

Maybe ones that are even better than this position I thought was mine.

Do I want to pivot to a new field?

Only you can answer those questions and it might take some time.

But what I want you to make room for is the idea that not getting what you want sucks.

It's devastating and it's unfair.

And it's also going to open up new opportunities for you because that's how life works always.

I know this firsthand.

Also, you can make life work that way more and more in the way that you process and respond to these setbacks.

The more you allow yourself to grieve and accept, the more you open yourself up to an unexpected timeline, the more quickly you get get to the part where you go man that really sucked but it's also so funny because then this happened and i then i met that person and then i had time to pursue that opportunity and dot dot dot you end up somewhere way better and with more appreciation too i just want to be clear i'm not telling you how to feel i'm not saying you're wrong for being upset kind of the opposite actually being upset is just part of this process what i'm saying when you're ready you zoom out and i think you'll be amazed at what you find but you know gabe i want to point out something that might be important for her to see her boss promised her this great role.

It's a huge pay raise, a much better position.

She had lots of good reasons to take it.

This is just stuck in my craw, though.

She said she took months to start the program, the college, the bachelor's thing, and that it was only after her boss pestered her to do it.

Ah, good point.

Yeah, because if I'm in her shoes, I'm signing up for online school that evening when I get home from work.

Yeah, why did she drag her feet on that?

I don't get it.

So part of me is going, did your boss get frustrated with the timeline and then choose someone else?

Because you were a dragging ass?

Did they think you didn't want the role very much and they just found somebody who did?

Did they not have a lot of loyalty to you because they didn't see your commitment?

I don't know.

I don't know.

That might explain her boss's flipping sorry with no explanation.

Maybe the guy's an a-hole, but maybe he's like, okay, I had to beg you to do the pre-rec just to get the job.

The rest of that sentence might have been.

Instead of just sorry, it might have been, sorry you weren't motivated enough to grab this opportunity that I stuck my neck out to get it and then hold for you.

And look, I realize I am speculating a bit here.

I could be totally wrong.

And I'm sure we'll get an email that says, you don't know what you're talking about.

But when somebody offers you an opportunity like this, you got to meet that opportunity with enthusiasm and gratitude, follow through.

You really have to honor it.

You've got to meet it with the right attitude.

I know this isn't fun to hear.

Again, I'm speculating, but I just feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't point this out.

Because whether that's the reason you didn't get this job or not, there's a part of you that wants to drag your feet and that tendency is not going to serve you well in the future.

The good news is, hey, this kind of crap is how you learn.

And now that you're aware of this, you will never make this mistake again.

And you'll have a bachelor's anyways.

And you can start to rewrite that tendency now by finishing the program that you started despite the demotivating situation that you've run into here.

and meeting all of your future opportunities with the right spirit.

And look, you got this.

You're already 70% of the way there.

Good luck.

And now we're going to immunize you against paying way too much for the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back.

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Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Okay, next up.

Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 42-year-old single female, and I met my main friend in my friend group, let's call her Jess, back in 2005.

And I know what Jordan is going to say.

Yes, she chose the name Jess.

No, we did not come up with that name.

Do not write us angry emails about always going with Jess.

I could see it on his face, and I'm just going to spare him.

Yeah, just cringing, clenching sphincters.

Last summer, while on a group trip that I was unable to attend, Jess told a friend of ours that she thought another guy in the group, Nick, was cute and that she was going to ask him out.

She's told me this story two or three times, as recently as a few weeks ago, and each time her retelling was always the same.

That she asked him out and that he said he wasn't interested.

Each time she told it, my takeaway was how affronted she seemed that he said no to her.

They never hung out or texted.

Then, two weeks ago, Nick asked me out via text while Jess was overseas on vacation.

Before responding to him, I immediately thought I should run it by Jess.

But she was on vacation and I was unsure about how it would affect her.

So I decided to call a mutual friend in the group to ask whether I would be a total a-hole for accepting Nick's invitation to hang out.

My friend, who was with Jess on that trip last year and knew of the exchange between Jess and Nick, described the situation as, Jess shot her shot and Nick said he wasn't interested.

That's it.

She also went on to say that Nick and Jess don't have many things in in common, but that she thought he and I definitely do, and I should definitely go for it, and I wouldn't be in a hole at all for doing so, and that she doubted Jess would make a big deal about it.

Famous last word.

So let me guess.

Jess totally understood and was so happy for you guys, and there was no drama as a result.

Yep.

That's the end of the story.

Okay.

And then they went to the Apotica to get ice cream.

Perfect.

Perfect.

Granted, this was the answer that I wanted to hear.

because I was interested in him as well.

So I decided to oblige him.

We ended up hanging out three three times in one week and have both exchanged the same sentiments that we really like each other and would like to see where things go.

When I texted Jess, I told her I just wanted to give her a heads up that Nick had asked me out and that we'd hung out a couple of times and I wanted to let her know, even though they never connected.

She said that the time to tell her would have been before we hung out.

I explained that I didn't do that because she was on vacation and I didn't think it would have been the right time.

When I asked her what would have been different if I had told her the day he asked me out as opposed to a few days later, she didn't answer.

Okay, so yeah, nothing would have changed.

That's the answer.

That's basically the story.

Yeah.

And when I asked if she had feelings for Nick, she said that she didn't, but she did have feelings about, quote, someone she introduced into this friend group going out with a guy she was interested in and felt shitty about being rejected by and not saying a word until they'd been hanging out, unquote.

Yeah, no, ridiculous.

What a petty stance to take.

I brought you into this group and this is how you repay me by going out with a guy you really click with with who turned me down a year ago.

A year ago?

That's not even lame.

That's actually insane.

Like I'm still hurt by this.

One, red flag, like weird.

Two, so you can't do anything because you're rubbing it in to like my ego hurts even more.

I don't care if you like him.

This is very weird.

That response really upset me.

Yeah.

I felt it was a low blow for her to bring up that she brought me into this friend group as though I'm on some conditional probationary period and I've somehow committed an infraction against her and the group.

Exactly.

So I told her I was going to go because I wasn't in the headspace to respond to what she just said.

I understand why she feels how she feels about what I did.

Of course I do.

Look, I'm not sure I do, but okay, you're just a better person than me.

No surprise.

But she asked him out over a year ago.

Look, this is what I'm saying.

We seem to be on the same page.

If they were in a relationship and they dated for a while, that would okay, like, I don't really want my friend dating my ex.

This is not that at

And I understand feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I didn't know that she still felt that way now.

Yeah.

I'm hoping that she just spoke in anger and needed some time to cool off, but it's been a few days and I haven't heard from her.

The more I think about it, the more I feel this was largely a miscommunication and a misunderstanding of where her head was.

Now I'm struggling with what to do and worrying that she sees me as an untrustworthy person.

and that our friendship is ruined.

Did I seriously mess up here?

Signed, having major regrets and try not to fret after sending that text.

No, you did not seriously mess up here.

You assumed, like a rational person, that your friend had moved on from this rejection after a freaking year and that she wouldn't take it as a personal offense if you went out with this guy that you have so much in common with.

The fact that she's treating this like a betrayal of your friendship, that she's lording over you, the fact that she brought you into the friend group and she's assuming that this guy's off limits because she couldn't be with him.

This is absurd, selfish and absurd, totally unwarranted, where I would say, okay, maybe you did screw up a little, and I think you already know this was in putting off sending that text before you hung out.

Not so much because you needed her permission to accept Nick's invitation.

You guys are adults.

He asked you out.

They never even hung out.

Their plot line literally went nowhere.

But on a practical level, and maybe as a matter of basic respect slash CYA, it might have been wise to send her a text saying, hey, sorry to bother you with this while you're on vacation, but Nick asked me out.

I know you were interested in him at one point.

I'm assuming that's all in the rearview mirror.

I just wanted to tell you before we hang out, so there's no misunderstanding or weirdness, if you have any feelings about this, I'm happy to talk.

Just let me know where you are.

Something like that.

Less asking for permission, more getting out ahead of a potential problem.

You're not saying, are you cool with it?

You're saying, this is what's happening.

Just so you know, I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this.

Honestly, with a more well-adjusted person, this wouldn't even be a problem.

You probably wouldn't even need to send a text like that.

Dude, Dude, I'm trying to put myself in her shoes, Gabriel.

If we were both single and I asked out a girl a year ago and she was like, oh, sorry, no, you know, not like that.

I'd be like, okay.

And I might be bummed, but I don't think a year later, I'd be like, and then Julie ignored me.

She had the gall to say, not, I don't like you like that.

I just wouldn't think about that.

And then a year later, you're like, hey, that girl's sort of like interested in me.

I would just be like, oh, cool.

She's cool.

I tried to ask her out and she wasn't into it.

Like, I just don't, I can't imagine the universe where I would give two shits about that.

Like, it's always nice to signal to a friend, hey, I care about you.

I want to do this thoughtfully.

Like, if you had said, like, hey, Julie asked me out, I would be like, oh, I appreciate that.

I don't think it would be super necessary, though.

It's just, it's thoughtful.

No, totally.

The fact that you didn't send that text, I know you said it was because she was on vacation.

But I think you were also probably avoiding that conversation because you suspected that it would not go well.

So you sort of knew that in advance.

Yeah, because she knew this was a minefield for Jess's ego based on the way she told the story multiple times, right?

Because she was so affronted by Nick turning her down.

So there's that.

She was like, Yeah, I don't want to create an obstacle I don't want to deal with.

I'm just going to kick the can down the road and hope this isn't as bad as I think, which I understand that impulse for sure.

You know, one of the things that I've learned as I've gotten a little older, whenever you feel that tug, like, oh, I probably should have a chat with this person, you know, especially when your first instinct is like, no, I'm just going to push that off as long as possible and hope that it doesn't go as badly as I think it will.

You have the chat.

You have the chat.

You send send the text.

Those are signals that the chat is probably necessary, but it's going to be hard, so you're trying to avoid it.

And she knows that.

I appreciated her honesty when she said, granted, when my friend told me I had nothing to worry about, that was the answer I wanted to hear.

That's 2020 hindsight, I assume, but sometimes we need to listen to that gut instinct there.

So it's an interesting thing that happened here.

Jess is clearly a tricky person sometimes.

She sounds very tender in this department.

Her ego is vulnerable.

Our friend here said that she understands feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I'm not sure that she does fully, not with a person like this.

Turning just down wasn't just hurtful or embarrassing.

That's how a normal person would process that rejection.

It sounds like it was kind of an injury, a narcissistic injury, a real blow to her sense of self.

The fact that her main takeaway was how affronted she was that he said no to her and that she's still telling the story as recently as a few weeks ago is actually a little scary.

Dude, I'm thinking about, and granted, these are not people in my friendship circle, Gabriel, but I'm thinking about when I was on my 20s and 30s, like mission to get good with women, right?

Rejection was such a fact of life of that process.

Hundreds of women were like, no, thank you, or not returning my,

and I never was like, can you believe this, bitch?

Never, because otherwise I would have nothing, I would have no free time at all.

My life would be consumed with this.

And she's telling the story a year later, it's like a little mentally ill sounding.

A little alarming, yeah.

So you have a very different lens on this kind of experience, but just imagine the collection of feelings and life experiences, wounds, self-concepts that would create a response like the one Jess had.

When rejection gets refracted through that prism, it can be more than just hurtful or disappointing.

It can put somebody in touch with inadequacy, shame, low self-worth.

You know, those are tough.

I suppose those can sometimes feel almost fatal for certain people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good word.

And that's when the defenses kick in, right?

And it sounds like Jess's defense is probably a few different things, but one of them is kind of grandiosity, right?

Right.

He doesn't know what he's missing.

I'm actually offended that he said no.

What an idiot.

And also, I invited you into this friend group.

How dare you go out with a guy I was interested in?

Well, what she says is she views this whole thing as a status game.

Like, well, you've put yourself above me in this group, and I'm supposed to be above you in this group.

And it's like, other people aren't really thinking about that like that.

Making yourself feel powerful, devaluing somebody, superiority stuff.

That's just all.

It's all nonsense for insecure people.

If I can't get the guy, I can at least be queen bee.

Ah, yeah.

Anyway, sorry for this long tangent.

We're psychoanalyzing your annoying friend.

I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole, but my point is just, I think you probably underestimated just how fragile your friend really is.

Although, come on, does that mean that it's our friend here's fault?

Like, sorry, I didn't realize your ego was so fragile and you were so hypersensitive that you were going to overreact.

No, it's not her fault at all.

These are Jess's feelings to deal with.

She might have stirred them up, but that doesn't mean she's responsible for them.

Yeah, okay, I feel the same.

But our friend here, on some level, intuited this fragility in Jess, even if she didn't appreciate how severe it actually is.

And then she cramped around it by not sending the text, which was both to spare Jess on her vacation, but also to spare herself for reasons that would also be really good for her to understand.

But that gave Jess ammunition to confirm to herself, oh, yeah, this actually was a betrayal because she only told me afterward, which only reinforces the lens that made her experience Nick's rejection as a near-fatal offense, right?

So that's what I find interesting, how two friends, one of them largely blameless and well-meaning, even if maybe a little avoidant in this instance, how two friends can inadvertently create a conflict like this.

So the next time she's in this situation, maybe she can notice this tendency to spare slash protect other people and herself and just choose to lean into it?

Yeah, that's it.

And to be clear, it's no guarantee that Jess would have been completely okay with this.

I think it's very likely that she still would have blown up at her.

That's what I'm getting hung up on, man.

Like, what would satisfy this woman if she's still nursing a rejection from a year ago?

So the goal isn't so much to satisfy the Jesses of the world.

The goal is to communicate and conduct yourself in a way that gives everybody the information that they probably deserve at the best possible moment so that you can know that you're on solid ground.

And then if Jess or any other Jess in your life ever does have a difficult reaction, it's a lot clearer what's Jess's stuff and what's our friend here stuff.

And it just avoids the messy emotional math of a semi-conscious dynamic playing out.

Just playing devil's advocate here, is there a world where she is choosing a guy over her friend here?

I appreciate you bringing it up because it is interesting to imagine it from another angle.

But given the facts, I don't know if I see it that way.

I think it's more accurate to say that Jess is putting this guy between the two of them by insisting that she has some claim on him that really doesn't exist.

That's a good point.

But also to be fair to Jess, who does deserve one good chance to try this a different way.

She might want to go to Jess and try to work through this and help her see that she's not trying to hurt her by dating Nick and that this doesn't need to be the choice.

Yes.

If I were Jess, I'd want to be asking myself, why does this hurt so much?

Who am I really angry at?

Are these expectations really fair?

Why am I standing in the way of my friend's happiness?

Why does that happiness have to come at my expense?

That's really her work to do.

Your work is in the way you responded to her and also enjoying this relationship with Nick.

That's more W-E-R-K than W-O-R-K.

So go get it, girl.

But it sounds like a fun and potentially promising relationship.

And if Jess can't see that, Sadly, she might not be a true friend to you at all.

So good luck.

You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

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All right, next up.

Okay, so just a heads up that this question deals with some very intense stuff.

Pretty dark, in case you're, I don't know, blasting this episode on a on a Bluetooth speaker at a children's birthday party or something.

Famously, how most people listen to the show.

Right?

Just listening on a Bose flex sound while a clown does animal balloons in the background.

Okay, let's get to the letter.

Dear Jordan Jordan and Gabe, for years, my 15-year-old experienced numerous health problems.

In September 2023, I discovered the source.

She finally told her psychiatrist here in Uganda that her Sunday school principal at our church, a 40-something-year-old woman, had been sexually abusing her since she was nine.

I hate this already.

More recently, she had subjected my child to gang rapes by her relatives and numerous strangers.

This involved choking, burning her with lighters, urinating on her, and severe beatings.

My god, I've already read this letter, by the way, and I am just speechless all over again because it's one of the

worst things I can imagine learning as a parent.

It is beyond comprehension.

We reported this to the police.

The case was not investigated.

Instead, we got death threats.

My daughter told me that she had kept quiet because they had threatened to do the same to her younger sister.

My eldest daughter lives in Canada, and I'm fortunate to have gotten visitor visas for all of us.

When the threats escalated, we flew to Canada and are now refugee claimants.

My child now suffers from serious PTSD and even had psychogenic non-epileptic seizures.

She continued to get death threats from her abuser, and I was relieved when the doctors here in Canada stopped her from accessing her phone.

She's been in and out of different mental hospitals since September 2024.

The flashbacks are brutal to witness.

The suicide attempts are frequent, even in hospital, under 24-hour guard.

Your poor daughter.

It's just so unspeakably sad.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

I hate it.

Then, this week, she called me from the hospital and wailed for several minutes as she told me that the principal had also sexually abused my youngest child.

This explains why my now 12-year-old has bad anxiety, is very clingy, and was scared of English lessons at their school.

I just can't even imagine both your daughters.

This principal is obviously a psychopath and a monster.

This is the kind of thing that makes me just, if I could personally hunt this woman down and

take vigilante justice, I would do that.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

I mean, it's unbelievable.

It makes you wish for somebody to do terrible things to these people.

It's just horrible.

It makes you want to go full Liam Neeson on this woman.

I know.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

John Wick.

We are all in therapy, including a DBT parenting group for me.

My PTSD girl has yet to start trauma treatment because she is chronically suicidal.

Guys, this has been a terrible couple of years.

I spent all of my retirement savings relocating us from Uganda and was able to live off of these for almost a year.

I've been unable to work because of the chaos and my own trauma.

I hope to start freelance writing and editing soon.

We get Ontario Works, government assistance basically, and use the food bank, but I can't afford the rent.

I managed to get a house by paying 10 months' rent in advance to make up for not having the requisite references and credit history or pay stubs.

In the meantime, I am completely broke, stuck, in pain, and scared.

But I am a woman of faith and believe that God will bring healing to all of us.

What can I do to earn an income knowing that complex PTSD is a long-term issue?

What can I do to get justice for my daughter while in Canada and get international authorities to investigate this school and the principal?

And how can I ever heal from the pain of knowing this was going on under my nose?

The betrayal and broken trust.

Signed, A Broken Hearted Mom, trying to get on after this massive bomb.

There are some stories that are just so awful and so painful that there are no good words.

As a parent, as an advised show host, whatever, as a human being, my heart just breaks for you and your daughters.

I just can't even believe that this happened.

I can't believe they were abused and trafficked by this woman, the principal at their Sunday school.

It's like, this is straight out of a horror movie.

It's just, it's a crime, it's a betrayal.

Absolutely disgusting and despicable, evil, frankly, thing to do to two young girls.

Furious doesn't cut it.

I'm angry at the police for not investigating.

How useless of a human are you if you're a cop and you're like, nah, I just, I don't, I can't relate.

I'm heartbroken for you.

I really, I just don't have enough words to express my sadness for what you and your girls have been through.

So, where to begin?

I guess I want to start by saying these awful things that your daughters and you, frankly, have been through.

Tragically, they've happened.

They've clearly had an impact on them.

your oldest, especially.

And it sounds like no matter what you do or how hard you work, you're going to have to accept that all three of you are now in a very intense, very complicated process.

And it's not going to be easy for a while.

It'll take time.

It might be very bumpy.

I say that not to pile on.

I say that because I don't want to gloss over the reality of what is happening to them by diving right into practical solutions.

There's a huge piece of this problem that doesn't have a practical solution.

As a mother, having no control at this point over what happened, I think you're going to have to hold two truths in your mind at the same time.

One truth is that your daughters desperately need your love, your hard work, your intervention.

You got to fight like hell for them.

The other truth is that you cannot heal them overnight.

You cannot undo what has been done to them.

You cannot make this okay.

It's not okay.

So you're probably going to be in an ongoing process of acceptance and grief and chaos for some time, maybe even a long time.

And I want to make room for that because I'm sure you're going to come up against the limits of your ability many times.

And there will be moments where you, you'll have to say say to yourself, this is horrible.

This is heartbreaking.

This is terrifying.

And I have to accept that this is what's happening.

I have to let my daughters process this however they will.

I have to make peace with this pain.

I have to surrender.

I also imagine your faith will play a big role in that.

And if so, I say, great, as long as that faith is compatible with action, which it sounds like it is.

So let's talk about action.

You need a job.

You need to be able to financially support your daughters.

Your best strategy, and this won't be a surprise to you, will be to start cultivating relationships wherever you go all the time.

The person behind the desk at the food bank, at the employment center, these have to become your new allies.

Win those people over.

Your neighbor who's lived in Ontario longer than you have, make them your new BFF.

The stranger sitting next to you at church in your DBT support group, turn to those people, introduce yourself, talk about the service, the support group, get to know them on a personal level.

And by the way, Well done in getting yourself to that support group in the first place.

I'm so glad you're surrounding yourself with these resources, these people.

That is excellent.

And to be clear, I don't mean this in a cynical way.

I'm not telling you to just view everyone you meet as a tool for employment, but there is a practical aspect to relationship building.

The more you meet and get to know people, the more goodwill you build, the more dots you can put on the board to connect up, the sooner you're going to land a decent job.

And obviously, you have to do all the other things, apply for jobs, invest in your skills.

figure out how you can be most useful to people, pick up the phone, call organizations, pitch yourself.

Maybe you volunteer at your church church fundraiser or whatever, all of that.

I love that you're already exploring writing and editing.

It sounds like you have real skills that will be valuable to a lot of different people, which is terrific.

But the glue, the fuel, it's always going to be the quality of your relationships.

And obviously, I got to plug six minute networking, sixminetenetworking.com.

I've said this before, this stuff is not just about landing a job.

It's about building a life that's supported and organized by your relationships.

This stuff is just as crucial for an asylum seeker as it is for for an executive who's trying to rise up.

And obviously, I probably don't have to say that it's free, but it's free.

So please take advantage of six-minute networking.

Now, about getting justice, that's a much more complicated question.

Gabe, I'm a little bit at a loss on this one.

They're in Canada now.

Thank God.

The police in Uganda either didn't take it seriously or just refused to do anything about it because corruption, possibly.

I don't know.

I'm not even sure why the police would even start now doing anything.

So is getting justice even the right thing to focus on at this point at all?

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly a fair thing to want to focus on.

Her daughters have been victimized.

They deserve justice.

And also other victims, there must be others, and they deserve protection too.

So I get it.

No, for sure.

I just mean, with all of this turbulence and pain and the more pressing issue of earning enough money, should she also be spending her precious time and energy trying to get justice for what happened back home?

No, right.

Yeah, fair point, and it's a good question.

Only she can really answer that, but I do agree that her number one priority needs to be getting a career that will stabilize them, take care of them.

I imagine it's going to be be hard to fight the good fight on the justice front without, you know, having a secure roof over their heads and food in the fridge and knowing that her daughter is not immediately at risk of suicide and all of that.

But when you're ready, and I think you'll know when it's time, I would consider reaching out to some people who can help you draw some attention to your case.

I'm thinking legal aid organizations.

I'm thinking religious nonprofits that focus on community support.

You know, maybe folks that focus on holding people in the church world accountable.

I'm also thinking journalists in Uganda and maybe also in Canada who cover crimes like this or religious abuse or police corruption or failures of justice more broadly.

Or refugees who come to Canada seeking asylum and what they're fleeing back home, just to throw another angle in there, because maybe they're like, well, we can't do anything about this, but we can show why people come to Canada, what they're the desperation that they face back home.

Great idea.

You write these people with your beautiful writing skills and you say, hi, I'm so-and-so.

I've been following your work in this area.

Thank you for what you do.

Here's what happened to my daughters at this school.

Here's how the system failed us.

I want justice.

I need guidance.

And I would be very grateful to partner with you on bringing this to light and holding these people accountable.

I think if you're going to get the right people to pay attention in Uganda at this point, it's probably going to be because a lawyer takes up your case or your daughter's story appears in a major newspaper or something and the article says, these girls were.

trafficked and abused and the mother went to the police and the police did nothing.

And someone from on high reads that and goes, oh shit, this is a problem now.

We got to look into this or it's going to look even worse.

Totally.

Look, it shouldn't work this way, but sadly, it often does.

It often does.

And this isn't always successful, but it can be.

It's going to take a lot of work, but you might be amazed by the people you will connect with.

And that kind of support can really snowball and it can make a real difference.

It's interesting, Gabe.

Both of her questions, how do I make money and how do I get justice, in a big way, they both come down to how she tells her story.

Thank goodness she's a writer.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

She has to become a storyteller now.

Look, I'm sure the last thing she wants to do is tell a stranger at a job fair or whatever, hey, my daughters were horrifically abused by their Sunday school principal.

I desperately need a job to pay for their therapy.

Not that she's even the type of person who would do that.

No, but doing that in the right way, I do think that needs to be part of her strategy here, for sure.

Absolutely.

Again, I'm not encouraging her to be cynical about this.

I'm not saying, you know, trot out your tale of woe to curry favor with everyone you meet so they'll have pity on you.

But this story, it's so heartbreaking and it's extremely powerful because of that.

Totally.

I'm watching her movie.

I'm invested in that story.

That's what I'm talking about.

She needs people to invest in her, whether it's asking someone to introduce her to hiring managers or getting a therapist to give her an affordable rate or getting a landlord to lower the rent, whatever it is that she needs.

So I'll let you decide how and when to tell your story.

It's your story.

I can't tell you how to talk about something this personal.

But I do want to encourage you to get comfortable with the idea of sharing these parts of your story with people, just as you did with us.

As difficult as it must be, you have to give people a window into your life.

You have to give them a reason to care.

And when they hear what you've been going through and they see how hard you're working, not just waiting for somebody to save you, I think you might be shocked by how much people show up for you.

I totally agree.

Before we wrap up here, let's talk about what healing might look like.

I'm with Jordan.

This is going to be a long road.

I imagine it's not going to be linear.

Obviously, therapy is going to be a huge component.

And again, kudos to you for getting your daughters daughters and yourself into treatment, into hospitals when necessary, into the support group.

I commend you so much for that.

And I really hope you and the hospitals can help stabilize your oldest daughter.

It sounds like she's in a lot of pain.

I can't even imagine how hard that must be to watch.

And I'm just so sorry.

The other big form of healing is going to come through your friendships, your family, your connection to God, to finding meaning in suffering.

And also just the love that you and your daughters give one another.

I think you know that.

But what you're wrestling with with specifically is the pain of knowing that this abuse was going on under your nose, so to speak, of being betrayed by a trusted person who was in a position of authority.

And that is a very unique pain.

I don't have any easy answers there.

Your anger, your hurt, they are real.

They're appropriate.

I'm not sure how you're supposed to immediately convert those feelings into something else or heal them overnight.

And honestly, I'm not sure that you should.

I mean, that anger might end up being quite useful when she channels it into the job search, into reaching out to people about sharing her story.

Yeah, definitely.

And maybe that's a form of healing too.

But look, at the beginning of the segment, Jordan, you said that she's going to have to move between these two ideas, that she needs to fight like hell and she needs to surrender.

Yes.

And I think that this is one area where she probably needs to surrender for the moment.

The pain that she's in is unavoidable.

It can't be undone.

I do hope in time that it eases up.

Maybe it'll evolve, but she can't fast forward through that.

She can only sit with it and, yeah, use it as motivation, follow it into relationships and opportunities that can help her and her family, of course.

But all of that will still involve self-forgiveness and it will require a lot of acceptance.

It kind of pains me to leave you with that thought because, you know, what do I know about a pain like this?

I don't.

And if I were in your shoes, I would want to get rid of the feeling too.

I would want to heal as soon as possible.

I guess I'll just offer you two things.

One is surrendering does not mean giving up.

There's a difference.

And two, how do I put this exactly?

It's such a big concept, but so much of life is uncontrollable, right?

Uncontrollable and non-negotiable.

A lot of things just happen.

They happen to us.

And sometimes they are really bad things.

And they leave us with very intense, very complicated feelings that just have no easy remedies.

And I think they push us to a place that the mind cannot do anything about on its own.

It seems to me that you're in one of those situations now.

And you're going to find your own way through it.

And I'm confident that the answers and the relief that you're looking for, they will come in time.

But until they do, I do think you're going to have to give yourself over to these feelings without trying to change them too much.

So if you can't forgive yourself, then maybe try accepting.

And if you can't accept, then, you know, just allow.

And if even that is difficult, then maybe just observe.

You know, I don't think that this is a mental experience anymore.

It's really, it's a spiritual one.

This is so intense.

I 100%

understand why she's struggling.

As a parent, it's your duty to protect your children, even though stories like this show that you can't always do that.

And you feel like you failed if you don't.

If I were in her shoes, I don't think I'd be handling this half as well as she is, honestly.

And I mean, she moved to another country.

The whole thing is kind of impressive and amazing, but still, I would encourage you to not turn this rage you feel against yourself too much.

Although I completely understand why this happens.

You've entrusted this educator with your children, which virtually all parents do all the time.

And she violated that trust.

She took that responsibility, which is a sacred one, and she did literally the worst thing she could have done with it.

And I know I said this at the top, but this woman, these men, they deserve to, at the very least, rot in prison for life for what they did to your children.

And God knows how many other children.

This is monstrous.

And I have to believe that some form of justice is coming for her.

People like this are a disease on humanity.

And I'm so deeply sorry that your family crossed paths with somebody like this.

It's terrifying to me that they're the principal of a Sunday school.

I mean, this is like what you hear from QAnon, except it's real life.

It's absolutely insane.

But listen, you're doing so much right here.

The immigrant journey is not an easy one.

There will be very tough periods.

You're incredibly courageous to make this transition.

And I know it might not seem like it, but your daughters are lucky to have a mother who's creating a new home for them, who's working hard to support them through this, and who's taking care of herself.

Which is equally important, by the way.

I'm glad you touched on that.

Yeah, you're in your own recovery process too, and that's essential for your daughter's healing.

I'm so impressed with what you've accomplished so far.

I'm very proud of how you're showing up to this frankly unimaginable situation, sending you and your daughters a big hug and wishing you all the best.

You know who won't make a tasteless ad pivot after a letter like that?

Oh my gosh, we'll be right back.

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Now, back to Feedback Friday.

All right, and now for the recommendation of the week.

I am addicted to Lit Villa.

So at the top of the episode, I mentioned that I just got back from this amazing road trip.

And I think part of the reason it was so amazing is that I I did much less planning for this trip than I have ever done.

I didn't have a set return date.

I didn't have a detailed itinerary.

I just kind of booked one day at a time, maybe two days, sometimes not even knowing where I was going to sleep that very night.

And it all started because I just booked the rental car and, you know, that was it.

I was like, oh, well, now I have to do it because I already have to go to Avis in the morning and get the car right.

And then I booked my Airbnb for the first night in the car on the way to Avis.

And I just kind of managed the whole trip like that with just a couple, you know, guiding lights to give the trip a little bit of shape.

And it's been the best part of my time in Europe so far.

The whole experience reminded me just how little planning and how little certainty we actually need to have a really great time or just to do something awesome.

All you have to do really is take one step toward the thing you want, just one.

And sometimes you kind of have to force yourself to do it.

I was a little bit in that mindset.

I was like, oh, when am I going to do it?

Should I do it this week?

Maybe I can do it next week.

And I was like, you know what?

Now is my moment.

I'm going to go book the reservation at Avis and then I'm committed.

But it's it's interesting because like the mind does not like having one step done and not the other 10 already at least mapped out.

But you usually don't have to do the other 10.

You can just do them as you go and it's better.

Totally.

Or you won't even end up needing to do them at all.

Yes, exactly.

So this applies to something small like a road trip.

It also applies to bigger things, career goals, creative projects, you know, big habits you want to develop, whatever.

When I made my short film a couple years ago, my first big step was writing the script and then asking my friend Brenna to be my producer.

And then after that, it was like a wave got created and I can't even take credit for it.

She brought the project to a production company.

They brought all their expertise.

Before I knew it, we had a great DP and bigger actors and more budget and better locations and better post-production.

And the whole thing just had its own logic.

It's had its own momentum.

And all I had to do was kind of guide it and make the most of it.

And that's how the best things are in life, I think.

So.

My recommendation of the week is not having everything planned out before you begin something.

Just taking the first step and then see what happens.

I'm a big fan of this.

I'm going to do more travels in this spirit.

Amen to all that, Gabe.

And I would add living this way can be a little nerve-wracking, can be hard if you run a little anxious, because like you said, it does involve a degree of uncertainty.

But that's also what I love about doing stuff this way.

It kind of forces you to increase your capacity for that uncertainty.

And to me, there's a very fine line between uncertainty and anticipation.

The uncertainty actually heightens the fun because you're constantly surprised and you don't know exactly what's going to happen next.

So you're also retraining your brain to experience uncertainty in a new way.

And that can change how you navigate so many things in life.

Solid wreck.

Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show.

If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, or you want to share some additional thoughts or learn more from other people in the show, fam, definitely check it out.

There's really some fun conversations happening in there.

A lot of venting and like back and forth, good faith debates that are polite.

You can find that in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.

All right, next up.

Hello, Jordan and Gabe.

My girlfriend and I listen to Feedback Friday weekly, and something we've noticed becoming more common is letter writers going overboard in adding redundant, useless, or smarmy information in their inquiries.

For example, My amazing, smart, handsome, funny, professional, underwater basket-weaving husband and I have been together for five wonderful, fulfilling, amazing, and exciting years.

However, I think he's cheating on me, or he isn't communicating with me, or he's lying to me, etc.

Or my eight-year-old child who's neurodivergent at the top of their game and crushing it in life is being bullied by the mean HOA for breaking rules that I, as his parent, agreed to abide by.

What does being neurodivergent have to do with this question?

Is this a parent or a spouse humble bragging or trying to talk themselves into something that they don't believe in their heart?

Wow, okay.

This is really getting under their skin.

Hey, I mean, it's an interesting question, I suppose.

That underwater basket weaving comment is kind of funny, though.

I will give them that.

It's a nice touch.

Personally, I love knowing what weird hobbies people's spouses are into, I suppose.

But look, I see what they're getting at.

I already have thoughts, obviously, but keep going.

Here's another gripe.

This one isn't as common on your show, thankfully, but it has still been sprinkled in here and there.

The belief that social injustices should be at the forefront of every conversation and social situation.

No, I'm not going to have these conversations when going to family gatherings, attending social meetups, or visiting my friend in the hospital after having a major surgery.

Why are people expecting these things to take over our lives?

I'm not sure who people are.

I don't think everyone is doing this, but clearly these topics are a part of the conversation now more than ever.

And people have different feelings about them, different interests in talking about this stuff, and that's fair.

I am a little puzzled by your frustration that this happens on the show sometimes, though.

I mean, if somebody brings up some social injustice in a letter, it's usually because it's somewhat relevant to their story, right?

It doesn't mean they're trying to shoehorn a conversation about racism or whatever into a story about cheating.

I think maybe I just keep jumping the gun.

I'll let you finish.

I'm a gay woman, and I dislike when I'm told I need to acknowledge these things better or that I'm, quote, doing my people a disservice by not putting them at the forefront of my life, especially by self-appointed allies.

Does it ever stop?

Dum vivimos vivamos.

What say you?

Signed, Feeling the Time is Ripe to Share a Couple of Gripes.

Wow.

Well, that's a fascinating reveal.

I didn't necessarily see that coming.

Yeah, you didn't see that coming, did you?

I 100% thought this was a white middle-aged dude until the end there.

Why wouldn't I?

I'm a white, middle-aged dude.

But I love that she waited until the very end to tell us that she's gay.

Yeah.

Well, I'm kind of riveted by this letter now.

This just became about something much more interesting.

Dum vivimus vivamus.

Obviously, that's one of those Latin phrases.

Yeah, I had to look this up as well.

So it means while we live, let us live.

Got it.

Okay, carpe diem kind of thing.

I don't know.

Something like that.

Make the most of life while you have it, I think.

Enjoy the present moment.

Vary on brand with your recommendation of the week.

Yeah, I did not plan that, but yes, totally.

I'm firmly in my doom vivimos vivamos era.

And a merry vivamos to you as well.

So, okay, this is a unique one.

I'm not sure we've gotten a letter like this before.

A little complainy, a little philosophy, a little pretentious Latin lesson, lots going on here.

So she doesn't like it when people throw in extraneous details.

Interesting.

Look, I guess I take your point when the details aren't truly relevant to the story.

I'm sure that happens from time to time.

I get it.

I also think these details usually do matter, maybe in ways that are not immediately apparent.

For example, in that cheating example you gave, if someone's like, my amazing husband is great in all these ways, our marriage has been incredible, but I also think he might be cheating.

I actually think that is super relevant because that complicates the picture.

It gives us additional data.

It helps us understand the bind that this person is in.

If they didn't say any of that and they just said, hey, I think my husband's cheating, it's like, okay, we can try to help, but there's way less context.

Also, it's way less interesting.

And then there's less connection, less relation stuff happening with us and the person.

Yeah.

Same thing with the other example, right?

If somebody mentions that their child is neurodivergent and being treated poorly by the HOA for selling chocolate bars to the neighbors in the lobby or whatever, that is also relevant because A, a neurodivergent child will experience that differently.

Okay.

Maybe their neurodivergence is informing the situation in some way.

And B, A parent of a neurodivergent child might need to approach their child differently, help them work through the problem differently.

But again, see, even if it's not totally relevant, I still kind of like knowing who this particular kid is.

It's not just any eight-year-old.

It's a super intelligent eight-year-old on the spectrum.

That's the reality of that listener's situation.

We love hearing about it, and I think we need to hear about it.

Well, I mean, just look at our friend here's letter.

We thought she was one kind of person.

We thought her letter was one kind of letter, and then she tells us that she's gay.

Yeah, good point.

I mean, would she argue that that was an indulgent or extraneous detail?

I mean, in a way, it is.

We don't need to know that she's gay in order to answer her questions, but the fact that she's gay makes her questions so much more interesting and more complex.

So, yeah, now there's an interesting contradiction or a wrinkle there.

It also potentially puts her on more solid ground when she says that she doesn't need self-appointed allies telling her how much to talk about issues related to her identity.

Whereas if that were coming from someone else, it might mean something different.

Yeah, if this came from a middle-aged white dude, like it's just a very different question, depending on who poses it.

I'm not sure I would have chosen the letter, actually, if it were the case.

I believe it.

So, are these details always self-indulgent or humble braggy or an attempt to talk yourself into something you don't believe in your heart?

Clearly not.

It's interesting.

Her other argument, which she kind of slipped in there, is that these personal details are irrelevant in light of certain other facts, like it doesn't matter if your child is brilliant or neurodivergent or whatever.

If they live in a building where the HOA says you cannot sell stuff in the lobby, for her, it's end of story.

Who cares what kind of child your kid is?

Right.

So my sense is that she's a very practical person, a very no-nonsense person.

And hey, I can respect that.

I admire that quality too sometimes.

But my feeling is that practicality misses a lot of interesting territory.

And it kind of flattens the nuance of the stories we take.

I agreed.

I'm not trying to like cut her down for this.

I'm sure she has good reasons for being practical and logical, and there's absolutely a place for that.

But if you look at the story of the autistic child selling stuff in the lobby and you go, sorry you're autistic, sorry your side hustle is being shut down, but the rules are the rules, none of the other stuff matters, that shuts other things down.

Then we don't get to explore what it's like for that kid, that parent.

We don't get to talk about creative solutions to their problem.

We don't get to empathize with a kid with a unique brain.

None of that.

Or we just get a letter that's way more generic.

Yeah, which does tend to make our answers more generic.

Yeah.

So the more we talk about this, the more I feel that being neurodivergent kind of has everything to do with the question.

It is the question.

Her second question is even more interesting to me, actually.

Yeah, honestly, I don't know if I have a good answer there.

I can appreciate where she's coming from.

I don't know if every Thanksgiving dinner or hospital visit needs to end up being about police violence or apartheid or whatever.

Not because these aren't topics worthy of discussion.

Of course they are, but there's a time and a place for everything.

And sometimes, this is my experience, sometimes these philosophical or political discussions, which by the way, are rarely true debates or conversations, right?

They're usually just people voicing their established opinions and kind of speaking past each other, which might be part of what she doesn't appreciate.

But sometimes these discussions can actually eclipse the more important thing in that moment, which is, We're having dinner together, we're visiting you in the hospital, we're getting to know each other, whatever it is.

So I totally take her point there.

I can also appreciate that questions of social justice, just to state the obvious, they're important.

It's good that we're talking about them more.

We're in touch with topics and feelings and problems now that we weren't before.

And sometimes people want to bring those into their close relationships, which is how Thanksgiving dinner can end up being about police violence or LGBT rights or whatever.

What I don't think is cool, and I think I'm on her side on this, is people lecturing you about what your relationship with this stuff should be, how vocal you should be about it, how much time you should spend thinking about it.

Yeah, I mean, that's up to her.

Of course.

Truly.

If a straight, self-appointed ally is giving you shit for not posting about Pride Week on Instagram, coming from them, especially, that's annoying.

And it's presumptuous.

And I get why it rubs you the wrong way.

I hate to traffic in these broad stereotypes.

I know not everyone is like this, but that is why people get annoyed with social justice warriors.

This is the gay equivalent of a white person telling a black person that they're letting down black people by not talking or thinking about racism the way they are.

It's like, eh, thanks for fighting the good fight.

I'm glad you're passionate about this stuff.

But who are you to tell me, the very person you say you're fighting for, that I'm doing social justice wrong, that I'm letting down my people?

They're not even your people.

Shut your face.

It is pretty presumptuous.

It is.

And I'm getting a little sweaty talking about this because this is not a political show and I'm not even trying to make a political point here at all.

For me, it's about empathy.

This is about respect.

It's about self-awareness.

Yeah, I'm with you.

And it's also about a person's right to decide what relationship they want to have with their own identity.

I don't know if anyone else gets to tell them that.

Agreed.

So does the social justice talk ever stop?

I mean, I don't know.

Probably not, especially on the internet.

I'm not sure I'd want to live in a world where we never talk about this stuff in a responsible, respectful way, but you can decide how and when you participate in it, who you hang out with, what you do with these feelings.

It might also be interesting for you to share them with people.

Like if you're in the hospital visiting a friend and someone starts talking about Israel and Palestine, maybe say, hey, I love that we're all passionate about peace and human rights, guys, but we're here because Tanya had a surgery.

Let's keep the focus on her today.

Do that with a smile.

It might help people reflect on the best time to talk about this stuff.

But look, this practical no-nonsense quality of yours, I think it has upsides and downsides.

So while you're making some very fair points, I would also encourage you to make room for feelings and mindsets that are different from yours, which is exactly what you want other people to do with you, including this tendency for people to include certain details about themselves in their letters.

It might be interesting to consider why these personal details rub you the wrong way.

What part of you is being stirred up by other people sharing them?

I do wonder if your two gripes are maybe two sides of the same coin.

And in the spirit of Feedback Friday, I'd love to invite you to bring more curiosity to these parts of yourself and other highfalutin sentiments.

Maybe, it's just a thought.

Maybe the practical, logical part of her brain is in part a way to deal with the vulnerability and also the messiness of living with all of the facts about a person, you know, or at least a response to it, because that doesn't seem to sit very well with her.

It's a way to short-circuit the tension of living with multiple truths.

Yeah, the HOA rules might be very clear and a neurodivergent child might be facing a really interesting dilemma.

A marriage might be great and one spouse is struggling with difficult feelings.

Anyway, you can't go wrong doing this because we can only empathize with other people to the extent that we relate to ourselves.

Go back and check out Dr.

Mike Isratel if you haven't done so yet.

Show notes and transcripts on the website.

Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, where you can connect with me on LinkedIn.

You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast One.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadis Sedlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so consult a professional before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love.

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In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

And we'll see you next time.

Here's a trailer featuring Tom Hardin, once entangled in insider trading, who transformed into Tipper X, a pivotal informant instrumental in exposing major securities fraud cases for the FBI.

So insider trading, trading stocks on information that's material.

And if you have that information before the public, you can place your long trade or your short trade if they're going to miss or beat the estimates from Wall Street.

So if you were to have this information before everybody else, then you can make profitable trades.

And my rationalization was, seems like everybody's doing it.

Who am I hurting?

The boss was looking the other way.

I'll do it just this once and never do it again.

I placed the trade and it was just a few keystrokes.

Years later, people say, what were you thinking?

And it was all a very slow, slippery slope.

Like, this is how I rationalized it.

And I hear this guy behind me say, hey, are you Tom?

Turn around.

Yeah.

And then there was two FBI agents.

And he's like, look, man, we know about your four trades.

And my first thought was, I know why they're here.

And oh my God, my dad's going to kill me.

Oh my God, my wife's going to divorce me.

And then I thought, holy crap, this might impact my career.

I only got up by going to prison.

So I went from dad to prison.

I immediately started making implicating statements.

The sentencing guidelines is based on the money my firm made, just over a million.

So I was looking at three years in prison.

If you would have told me when I graduated from Penn, you know, a few years later, you're going to be insider trading, I would never do that because I'm a good guy.

It was all self-inflicted.

I did this all to my family myself.

You know, for the past seven years now, pretty much every week, I get in front of a group of people, a complete group of strangers, and tell them the worst thing I've ever done.

Don't miss this compelling story of a transformation and redemption on episode 918.

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