1244: Connection Crisis Corners Calculating Courtesan | Feedback Friday

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Speaker 1 Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.
As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer the dank edible making you sink into this cozy chaz long of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Speaker 1 And yes, I nailed the pronunciation of that word today.

Speaker 3 I was about to say 10 out of 10 on that one. Well done.
I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 1 No more chez lounge for me. I was listening to an audiobook the other day and the narrator said chez lounge.
And I was like,

Speaker 1 everybody knows that's not how you say it. How did they let that slip through? Amateurs, man.

Speaker 3 The superiority once you learn something new.

Speaker 1 Amazing. It kicks in immediately.
It takes like five minutes of you feeling stupid about not knowing it.

Speaker 1 And then someone else gets it wrong, and you've been doing it wrong your whole life, and you're like, look at this jagoff, Ken. Doesn't know how to say Shazlong.

Speaker 3 If anyone's confused about what we're talking about, go back three, three and a half years, maybe. There's a whole Shaz long versus Shaz Lounge conversation.
That is a deep Feedback Friday cut.

Speaker 1 That's right. That's right.
OGs only. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people.

Speaker 1 and turned their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

Speaker 1 During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, arms dealers, drug traffickers, Russian spies, hostage negotiators.

Speaker 1 This week, we had Christopher Whitcomb, author of Anonymous Mail. This is a two-parter, fascinating dude, man.

Speaker 1 Christopher was a hostage rescue team sniper on the FBI who ended up traveling the world with aliases, cash, guns, ended up doing some private spy stuff, built a private army in the jungles of East Timor, working contracts for intelligence agencies, of course, survived a coup d'état.

Speaker 1 His stories are bonkers. That's why it's a two-parter.
He ended up writing this memoir about the whole experience.

Speaker 1 Also, kind of a cautionary tale of what happens to the people the government trains to lie, even to themselves. We also did a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on ketamine.

Speaker 3 By the way, Jordan, did you read in the news the story about the scam compound center that got busted and they ended up taking out like, what, $15 billion in cryptocurrency from this place? Yes. Wild.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is Prince Group. They were a major, possibly the biggest organized crime organization in the world.
And people are like, what about drug cartels? Yeah, bigger than drug cartels.

Speaker 1 Isn't that nuts? Like, you think drug cartels, nothing's bigger than that. Prince Group is bigger.

Speaker 3 They are behind a lot of the scam texts that people get, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. And they're totally not connected to the Chinese Communist Party.
And they operate with impunity in Cambodia. And they doubled the GDP of the country, essentially, with these scams.

Speaker 1 So they basically own the whole place.

Speaker 1 They build these big compounds that we've covered on the show before, where they essentially kidnap people with fake job offers, force them to stay in there, sending scam texts, doing calls, scamming people out of money and turning it into cryptocurrency.

Speaker 1 Somehow, and I'd love to get details on this, but somehow the Department of Justice actually did something about this.

Speaker 1 And in part, it was because of the publicity these things got from former show guests, Nathan Paul Southern and his wife Lindsay. They covered these and broke the story a few years ago.

Speaker 1 We did a show about it. We did another show about it.
We did another show about it. And these pig butchering scams.

Speaker 1 And the DOJ got involved and somehow managed to go in there, make a bunch of arrests, sanction them and seized $15 billion

Speaker 1 in cryptocurrency. And it's the largest seizure in criminal history, period, anywhere on earth ever.

Speaker 3 It's so wild. It's very

Speaker 3 wondering if they were involved. That's why I brought it up because I'm sure you read the news, but I didn't know if they might be involved.
And also, don't they live right next door to one? They do.

Speaker 1 So they see these guys, these scam mafia bosses, and they know who they are.

Speaker 1 I don't mean Nathan knows who they are. I mean the bosses are like, ah, you guys.
And it's like, yep, hi. We're the guys that write about you and that you threatened to kill.

Speaker 3 I would be terrified to live next to those people. The same people you were trying to expose.

Speaker 1 Yes, they are constantly being threatened by these people. I think the reason they're not dead is because they're actually journalists that are visible and are like not locals.

Speaker 1 They're foreigners from the UK. It's just, oof, yeah.
And it's scary. So he told me, actually, it's funny because he called me the other day.
He's like, I got a story for you.

Speaker 1 He said he was going in to see if the Prince Group compound was still active and all that. And he goes, yeah, they still got people caged up in there.

Speaker 1 And when they spotted them, they immediately tried to stop the car. So security pulled a car in front of them and tried to close the gate on them so they couldn't escape.

Speaker 1 And he says they gunned the engine. barely made it before the gate came down and closed on the car.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And then the scam compound called the military, who they basically own, the military cut off the road, set up a checkpoint, they zoomed past it. They set up another blockade at an overpass.

Speaker 1 They drove over the sand and the military guys are like jumping out and waving the car down. They did a U-turn over the sand, over the median, and got away.
And I'm like, where are you right now?

Speaker 1 He's like, undisclosed location. So basically he did this crazy evasive maneuver, almost got caught by them, probably was going to be in a world of hurt.

Speaker 1 And he goes, the best part, Pink Pony Club was blasting the entire time in the car.

Speaker 1 So imagine, I was like, you know, this is a really good story, right?

Speaker 1 Really good. It's going to make it into whatever movie they make about you guys.
Hopefully you'll still be alive when they make that movie.

Speaker 1 Because I can imagine them doing evasive action while the military is like shooting guns in the air, essentially, trying to get them to stop. And it's like, Pink Pony Club, Pink Pony Club.

Speaker 1 You got your, what is that? Is that Billy Island or is that Chapel Rowan? I don't know the difference, actually.

Speaker 3 I think it's Chapel Rowan. I don't know for sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a Billy Rowan.

Speaker 3 They live in Cambodia, right?

Speaker 1 Right. Wild.
Where they used to. I don't know if they're still there.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Sounds like they're not there anymore, but setting up shop in the same country you're trying to expose is a bold move.

Speaker 1 It is a bold move, especially when the military and police are completely owned by these criminal factions. Like, wow.

Speaker 3 Very scary.

Speaker 1 Wow. By the way, on Fridays, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and row down random Feedback Friday fjords of yesteryear.

Speaker 1 All right, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Speaker 3 Dear Jordan and Gabe, I wrote to you about five months ago.

Speaker 3 I'm the Japanese transgender lesbian who was secretly doing sex work while running her own business and wondering if my INTJ Machiavellian personality made me incapable of meaningful relationships.

Speaker 1 Man, this is funny, Gabe. I was literally thinking about her two nights ago.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah?

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah. Actually, right after Nathan called me because I was like, God, we have the most interesting guests and show fans.

Speaker 1 Speaking of interesting show fans, what happened to the Japanese transgender lesbian sex worker that listens to the show? And here we are.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Isn't it wild? I love that she listens to our show from rural Japan as she navigates life and love.
That's right.

Speaker 1 So this is the woman who's her wife lost their life savings in some sort of scam, right?

Speaker 3 Yes, yes. And she separated and then she ran her own business, but she was also moonlighting at a brothel, which she said she really enjoyed.

Speaker 1 Where she thought about her customers was her, and she'd say, like, they're my little toys. I mean, I can't hear her voice, but that's how you describe people as your little toys.

Speaker 1 You have to use an evil voice.

Speaker 3 It might have also been a little bit of a something got lost in translation. I think so.
I think, if I recall correctly, after we corresponded, she said, let me clarify what I meant by little toys.

Speaker 3 It wasn't my little toys.

Speaker 1 Place the luncheon in the basket.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think she was saying it was less that and more just like. there's a playfulness and a game that everybody is in on at this brothel and she enjoys it.
That's all. Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, she craves intimacy. She really wants to be close to somebody, but she also views relationships as transactional.

Speaker 3 And if the cost outweighs the benefit, as she put it, she walks away without a second thought.

Speaker 1 Got it. Uh-huh.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So our advice to her, if I recall correctly, was basically, if it feels this important to protect yourself against vulnerability, there's some trauma there, some important early experiences, and it would be a good idea to start to unpack that stuff, probably.

Speaker 3 Yes. This theme of wanting to have an escape hatch at all times was very big for her.
And also this theme of having secrets came up on the episode.

Speaker 1 The secrets, that's right. The secret savings account.
She had a secret double life.

Speaker 3 The secret self. Yes.
And what function having secrets might serve for her personality and really all personalities to some degree. So she goes on.
I took your advice to heart.

Speaker 3 I decided to become more vulnerable, to stop seeing everyone as transactional and try loving someone simply for who they are.

Speaker 1 Wow, bravo. That's a huge shift, man.
I wonder if this is really as simple as deciding to just do that.

Speaker 3 Just like a light switch? Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1 I don't really care about people. That's fine.

Speaker 3 Not long after, I met someone on a dating app. She's in her early 20s and I'm almost 40.
We started casually, but she said she was developing feelings and wanted to try a real relationship.

Speaker 3 I was very reluctant and told her about my personality, that I find it hard to trust or connect deeply.

Speaker 3 She said she's similar, but still believed she could have a real loving relationship with me and wanted to try. I told her I'd think carefully before deciding.

Speaker 3 I finally decided to give it a try because I thought I needed to make myself vulnerable and give it a real chance without thinking about cost or what I could possibly gain.

Speaker 3 I just thought, I feel comfortable with this person and want to open myself up.

Speaker 1 Wow, I love this for you. I can imagine how hard that must have been, and I commend you for relating to somebody in a whole new way and giving this a chance.
Takes a lot of courage.

Speaker 3 She's a Chinese grad student who is finishing her degree here in Japan. I told her about my past sex work and said that I would quit and get STD tested for her.
Everything came back negative.

Speaker 3 Later, she asked me to take the tests again at two different hospitals to make absolutely sure the results were accurate. They were.
I agreed to do it to give her peace of mind and make her feel safe.

Speaker 1 Okay, responsible.

Speaker 3 She's gentle, loving, and thoughtful. The sex is great, and she accepts me completely for who I am.
But there have been red flags.

Speaker 1 Come on, this is Feedback Friday. We gotta, of course there are red flags.
Let's hear it.

Speaker 3 She's extremely distrustful of institutions, saying things like, that's just what they tell you, but it doesn't mean it's true.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Well, she's Chinese, right? So that is China.

Speaker 1 When your government lies to you about almost everything and they control all of the news and all of the information and even the internet, you have that program running in the back of your head 24/7.

Speaker 1 In fact, anybody living in an authoritarian state or used to live in an authoritarian state, they all have this program running in the back of their head. So I can't totally judge her for this.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's really interesting because I would have said that's a bit conspiratorial, but yeah, you're right. In China, it's different.

Speaker 3 Although, yeah, maybe that also explains why she wanted the results from two different hospitals.

Speaker 1 Yep, yep. Like, oh, you can't fake them.
You can't buy them from these places that I choose. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Her dorm was filthy. Hair everywhere, cooking oil and crumbs on the floor, even period blood left in the tub.
Ugh.

Speaker 1 Okay, this I can judge her for. That's just really gross.

Speaker 3 Much more disturbing to me than the paranoia.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's

Speaker 1 man. For sure.
The deep state is controlling the world.

Speaker 1 You're probably a little loony, but like I said, I get it, especially if you grew up in China.

Speaker 1 But the whole, I live in my own filth and might be spreading bacteria to my partner because I refuse to clean up toxic waste in my own home. Yeah, there's something wrong with this picture.

Speaker 3 It's going to be a no for me, dog.

Speaker 3 Each time before I visited, she promised she'd clean, but never did.

Speaker 3 She had boxes of food and junk stacked up to the ceiling, all imported from China because she hates the food here and says she's afraid of starving. Okay.

Speaker 3 She said none of it bothered her, so she didn't see the point in cleaning. I told her that if we ever live together, cleanliness had to change.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so she's both a mess and her place is a mess, and she's kind of a hoarder, it sounds like.

Speaker 3 And possibly has some food stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's something fairly serious going on here. Poor girl, I do feel bad for people who deal with this.

Speaker 3 Also, Japanese food. Even we were talking about this last week.
Even when it's from like 7-Eleven, famously amazing. What do you hate about it?

Speaker 1 Everything in Japan, like you said, even at 7-Eleven is essentially fire. Yeah.
So the fact that somebody goes, oh, I can't eat the food in Japan.

Speaker 1 Okay, if you're my dad who grew up in the Midwest and you want something American, but like, you grew up in China.

Speaker 3 It's not that different, honestly.

Speaker 1 There's tons of good food in Japan.

Speaker 3 Tons. It can't be worse than rice cakes and cereal you shipped yourself from Guangzhou.
I just don't understand that.

Speaker 1 Right, exactly. Freeze-dried mian.
Like,

Speaker 1 I'm guessing she's homesick and attached to China, and this is a way to feel connected and safe, right? I don't know. Maybe you want your cat and crunch when you live in Europe.

Speaker 3 It could totally be that. It could also be another neurosis.
She's afraid of trying new food. She's being very rigid around her diet.
I'm afraid I'm going to starve is a pretty intense thing to say.

Speaker 3 This is curious.

Speaker 1 Is this, what is it called? Orthorexia?

Speaker 3 Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 And look, Japan, culinary paradise. So it's sad.

Speaker 3 Not just culinary paradise, though, also famously one of the cleanest places in the world. That's true.
I'm sure our friend here is just horrified by the state of her apartment.

Speaker 1 That's a good point. I didn't think about that.

Speaker 3 She also didn't go to the immigration office on the days she promised she would several times in a row. That caused us to miss our trains back to my town and created major headaches.

Speaker 3 Oh man, when people do stuff like that when you're traveling, drives me up the wall. That's kind of a deal-breaker for for a travel partner and a partner.

Speaker 3 These are just some examples of when she promises to do something, then does the opposite. She also constantly procrastinated on her thesis.
It was written almost entirely by AI.

Speaker 3 She failed her first defense, was given a second chance, and still delayed for weeks.

Speaker 3 Her professor eventually passed her only because in his words, quote, it would look bad if the university failed a scholarship student, unquote. She always seems to scrape by by the skin of her teeth.

Speaker 1 If you're going to cheat and have AI write your thesis, shouldn't you turn it in early?

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 1 it only takes a few minutes, right? I mean, what are you doing? What's the big holdup? Oh, I really don't want to type in seven prompts on a Saturday afternoon to make a thesis. Fascinating.

Speaker 1 There's some real pathological avoidance here. She's putting a number of things off in different ways.

Speaker 3 So part of me that's being kind wants to say she's from China. Maybe she doesn't speak the language that well.
But if she got into this program, she must speak Japanese to us.

Speaker 3 I mean, she's not like doesn't speak Japanese and I needed chat, I need a clawed to finish my dissertation. That sounds more like she just can't deal.

Speaker 1 Agree. But also like, okay, let's say you wanted ChatGPT to write it so it sounds better in that language, but you, you have your draft that's written in pidgin Japanese.

Speaker 1 Like if I'm writing something in German, it's not going to sound good, but I write it in German and people are like, wow, this is like a third grader wrote it.

Speaker 1 And then I'm like, hey, ChatGPT, make this sound like

Speaker 1 an educated person wrote it, but use the same information and points. And it's the same stuff.
My work is still there.

Speaker 1 Then I also have to say, how crappy is it that she had Chat GPT write her dissertation and the school is like, we can't fail you because you're on a scholarship and this looks bad for everyone.

Speaker 1 It's like, now you're what, a doctor?

Speaker 1 And everyone just had, everyone else had to actually do the work and you're just out there being like, I have a PhD from this university in Japan that I didn't earn.

Speaker 3 Wow. Not cool.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 1 I'm going to start calling myself Dr. Jordan.

Speaker 3 Sounds like you're going to have to write a thesis, my friend.

Speaker 1 Hey, no problem. I think I could get it done in an afternoon.
What do you think? A little help, a little chat GPT? No big deal.

Speaker 3 I mean, you're already prescribing people a little darkness every week. That's right.
Might as well have the doctor title. Eventually, she moved in with me under clear conditions.

Speaker 3 Keep the apartment clean and find a job after graduation. She's kept things somewhat tidy, but she refuses to unpack her belongings, saying it doesn't bother her to live out of boxes and bags.

Speaker 3 That's the second time she said that, right? Yep. Yeah.
Interesting. Eventually, she said she wanted to go back to China, quote, for a month to reset.
I I told her I was worried she might stay there.

Speaker 3 She said I was worrying too much, and she promised she would not do that.

Speaker 1 So she came right back, kept her word, no problem, right?

Speaker 3 Right. That's it.
End of letter.

Speaker 3 A few days after arriving, though, she said her cousin's boss offered her a job doing accounting at a new cross-border e-commerce startup.

Speaker 3 Despite having no experience, she took it, calling it her big chance to get rich and learn something new.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that adds up.

Speaker 3 She also feels confident because her cousin and her boss are, according to her, very wealthy and have everything anyone could ever want.

Speaker 3 She said she didn't used to worry about being wealthy, but after seeing everyone around her wealthy and successful, she felt a strong ambition to be like them.

Speaker 3 Jordan, do you think that she knew about this job before she went on this trip?

Speaker 1 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 3 It's curious to me that she goes to China saying, I'll be back. And then a few days later, she magically has a job offer, a start date.
She's there and she's not coming.

Speaker 3 That's a lot to happen in like three and a half days.

Speaker 1 It's not impossible that this happened. Like, hey, I'm home.
I want to have dinner with everyone. Hey, do you want a job? My boss actually wanted it.

Speaker 1 Sure. When do I start? Oh, next week.
We need someone real fast. It's possible.

Speaker 1 What's more than likely is she had that job lined up before she left and was like, I'm going to do this job for a few weeks. And if I hate it, I'll go back to Japan.

Speaker 1 But in the meantime, I'm going to lie to my girlfriend.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I guess we're wildly speculating.
So I'm sorry to plant another seed of doubt in your mind, but it's just a little curious this whole timeline.

Speaker 3 Now she's going to do the job for two weeks and decide if she wants to stay there for a year or two to, quote, learn and build wealth, unquote.

Speaker 3 And when she's successful, she'll bring me there so we can live in convenience and luxury.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because that's how this works. But damn, this 23-year-old trying to waify you up, girl.
Waifu.

Speaker 3 Is that the term? No, I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 I think I got to reel that back in. I don't know.
Anyway, continue.

Speaker 3 I've told her many times how these broken promises make me feel, and that I feel betrayed by her choice to stay in China instead of following our original plan.

Speaker 3 To live here for two years, find a job she could enjoy, and see what what kind of future we could build. We both said we could never do a long-distance relationship.

Speaker 3 She speaks three languages, and we live in a tourist city where I'm sure she could find many opportunities.

Speaker 3 I've also told her that she can't have both a rich, successful career in China and me at the same time, that she has to choose and accept the consequences.

Speaker 3 She always says she doesn't want to choose, that she can have both if she becomes rich.

Speaker 3 and I move to China to be with her, or if she returns to me in a few years and starts her own business here like I did.

Speaker 3 We often communicate about how we feel, and she's admitted that what she's doing is extremely unfair to me, and that asking me to go to China is unfair.

Speaker 3 But she still insists that it's our best chance to be rich and happy together.

Speaker 1 So this rich and happy fantasy is very seductive for her. It's huge.
This sounds very speculative and vague. Also, she's an entry-level 20-something accountant at an e-commerce company.

Speaker 1 I just, I don't know if you're going to get fabulously wealthy from that. This isn't Google, man.
Also, she has to rely on ChatGPT to do all of her work.

Speaker 1 So, like, are you really about to become a millionaire? I don't know. Sounds like something you hear a teenage boy say on Reddit.

Speaker 1 You can't even clean the cooking oil off the kitchen floor or the Pyriad blood off your bathtub. But yeah, you're gonna be a multi-millionaire because you joined a startup.

Speaker 3 Come on, man.

Speaker 5 Yes, it's catchy, and the crowds love it.

Speaker 3 Despite all this, I still love her deeply, maybe for the first time in my life. When I sit on the sofa where we used to sit together, I feel like I could cry, which almost never happens for me.

Speaker 3 I've always immediately been able to cut people out of my life and move on without any feeling or a second thought, but not this time.

Speaker 3 I don't think I've ever felt this way before, and I may never feel this way again.

Speaker 3 Should I break up with her, reclaim my independence and peace, and accept that I would be letting go of someone I truly love, and then deal with all the pain that comes with that?

Speaker 3 Should I believe her, try a long-distance relationship and see if she really comes back after her trial in China?

Speaker 3 Or should I give up my business, put my things in storage so I can easily move back and restart my life, and move to China to be with her after she becomes wealthy, if that ever really happens?

Speaker 3 Signed, no longer feeling as jittery about protecting my agility and signing up for captivity at the cost of my precious liberty, but now questioning the utility of embracing this vulnerability.

Speaker 3 with someone who's creating emotional asymmetry and, just speaking visually, is living pretty filthily.

Speaker 1 You're not going to keep doing that every time, right?

Speaker 3 Come on.

Speaker 3 I just I'm in the grip of the muses, my friend.

Speaker 1 You do you at least I got a chair today. All right, what a turn of events.

Speaker 1 The last time we heard from this listener, Gabe, she was like this ambitious, untouchable psychosexual mastermind who was only out for number one, couldn't let anyone into her ice palace heart.

Speaker 1 That's right. And now five months later, she's in love with someone for the first time in her life and considering moving to another country to be with her.
This evolution is wild.

Speaker 3 Like you said, I mean, I have a lot of questions, but she does deserve some props for that.

Speaker 1 It's really, it's huge, actually. It's quite impressive.

Speaker 3 Opening yourself up to another person after a lifetime of being Machiavellian about this, and suddenly she's feeling a lot of these things she really did not want to feel, namely this vulnerability, this, oh, I love this person.

Speaker 3 I can't stop thinking about her. It's bringing up some very big feelings and questions for her.
So yeah, before we dive in, I just want to appreciate what a big deal that is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure. That's a victory in and of itself.

Speaker 1 So whether or not this woman is ultimately your person, you've stepped into a very new situation here, a situation where you're listening to your heart instead of your usual cost-benefit analysis, where you're allowing yourself to love someone, miss someone, where you're not dropping them immediately and then shutting down parts of you in order to cope with the loss.

Speaker 1 This scene you described on the couch, it's extremely touching. And I think it's a sign of huge progress.

Speaker 3 I agree. And I think that actually is more important than this specific partner.

Speaker 1 I totally agree. Although I will say I chuckled a little when she was like, when I sit on the sofa where we used to sit together, I feel as if I could cry.
That never happens to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, she's like, I'm so down bad for this girl. I'm almost considering maybe shedding a tear for her.

Speaker 1 But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yeah, that's a big step for her.
It's just funny. If she moves to China to be with her, she's going to be like, I like you so much.

Speaker 1 I almost thought once about crying on the couch.

Speaker 1 Hilarious. Anyway, the relationship you're in, it's very formative.
It's obviously very powerful. And it's bringing up a lot of really important information about you.
And I'm thrilled for you.

Speaker 1 And this woman is also a tricky partner in a number of ways. This is a lot to deal with in one person, especially in the first partner you've taken seriously since your divorce.

Speaker 3 Let's dig into that for a second because I do wonder if that might not entirely be an accident. I think it's fascinating that she's one way for most of her life, self-sufficient, guarded, independent.

Speaker 3 All these things that we've just been talking about, sometimes can be quite brutal with people and she hasn't really had a meaningful relationship.

Speaker 3 And then the first person she allows herself herself to really love is avoidant, unpredictable, highly self-oriented.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and kind of calling the shots a little bit in the relationship and wanting to enjoy their relationship as well, clearly, but on her own terms.

Speaker 1 So, basically, not totally available.

Speaker 3 Yeah, like in other words, she's a lot like her.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 but with way worse housekeeping.

Speaker 3 Yeah, a small army of bacteria in her bathtub. That is correct.

Speaker 1 Now that we're back on the topic, once again, gross.

Speaker 3 I just have to acknowledge that she's making making her take multiple redundant STD tests. And meanwhile, she's allowing toxic waste to fester in her bathroom.
What an irony.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Seriously. Why don't you STD test your acrylic, you savage?

Speaker 3 I mean, it's just funny. Like, she's terrified of getting chlamydia, but she doesn't mind standing in antibiotic-resistant E.
coli every morning. It's so weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, your Meyer's clean day ain't shit. It's not going to do.
It's no match for that.

Speaker 3 But I'm genuinely fascinated by this detail. I can't tell what is going on with the cleanliness.
Is it depression? Is it avoidance? Executive dysfunction? Is it rebellion? Like, I don't want to clean.

Speaker 3 Is it ignorance? I'm so confused.

Speaker 1 The whole it doesn't bother me, so I don't see the point in cleaning comment. That's something, again, you would expect from like a 12-year-old boy.
That's worrisome to me.

Speaker 1 Either that makes you super self-absorbed that you don't care what other people think.

Speaker 1 You just do what works for you, which doesn't work when you're living with someone else, or you truly don't see what's wrong with bathing in old visible blood, which makes you unsanitary and gross?

Speaker 3 And like I said, there were two instances of that it doesn't bother me, so I don't do it thing, right?

Speaker 3 The other one was about the boxes of food and junk stacked up to the ceiling and living out of boxes and bags. She's like, it's not a big deal to me, so it doesn't have to be a big deal to anyone.

Speaker 1 The more we talk about it, the more I'm going, is this really someone you want to be with? I don't mean to jump the gun, but this is, there's more, this is more than just being messy.

Speaker 1 It's pathological.

Speaker 3 What concerns me about it is when she says these things don't bother her, okay, look, maybe they really don't bother her.

Speaker 3 Maybe her barometer for what is dirty or messy or inconvenient is very different. Or maybe these things don't bother her because she can't afford to be bothered by them.

Speaker 3 Can't afford to have a normal human response to being super messy or being super chaotic or whatever, because that would require her to do something about those things.

Speaker 3 And it sounds like she struggles to do things, whether it's cleaning the bathtub or taking out the old boxes or finishing her dissertation.

Speaker 1 So she's just turned off that part of her brain. I could see that.
Maybe. But again, that makes this whole dream of thriving at a new e-commerce company and becoming super rich pretty absurd.

Speaker 1 Unless her cousin's boss is going to let her get away with all this nonsense and make her rich anyway, I just don't see how somebody with this personality can be a valuable employee and make a killing.

Speaker 1 Her track record is terrible. My prediction is she's going to crash and burn or she'll coast and be dead weight.

Speaker 1 And they'll never get to a place where she has so much money that she can do whatever she wants.

Speaker 1 Gabriel, this reminds me, there were people in law school because people are like, oh, I know crazy people that do well. Look at, you know, some celebrity.

Speaker 1 There were a lot of crazy people in law school, but the thing that they had that was was crazy was also an asset. So it was like they had OCD and it was like crippling.

Speaker 1 But what it did is it made them study for 18 hours a day and like brief all the cases and like find every argument and blah, blah, blah. But they also couldn't function in other ways.

Speaker 1 So they probably did really well. This is different.
This is like, I'm going to half ass everything, turn it in late and use Chat GPT and barely scrape by.

Speaker 1 That might work in school where they're like, ugh, just get rid of her, pass her. If you're working for a boss, they're going to be like, you're terrible.

Speaker 3 Bye. Yeah.
Well, like you said, there's a highly aspirational, but actually kind of delusional quality to how she's talking about her plans and their future.

Speaker 1 That's well said. Yes, it sounds irrational.
It's kind of grandiose.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm going to be a fabulously wealthy woman and then you can come live with me in China and all of our previous problems are going to be gone.

Speaker 1 Nothing's going to be an issue anymore because we have money now. It's like, girl, you can't even spray Lysol on your linoleum.

Speaker 3 Maybe even more worrisome, though, is she's admitted that what she's doing is unfair. And our friend here has told her about all of the things that have upset her in this relationship.

Speaker 3 And her partner is still doubling down on this plan. So like, how much are they really communicating? How seriously is this woman actually taking her?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's kind of like, I hear you communicating. Anyway, I'm not going to do any of that.
I'm just going to do this thing that I already planned on doing.

Speaker 1 My strong feeling, I'm just going to be very blunt here, unlike the rest of my answers so far.

Speaker 1 My strong feeling is that you should not move to China to be with this person for almost every single reason that you laid out. Look, I'm not saying necessarily that you have to break up with her.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying you shouldn't have any relationship with her at all, but I would not make major life decisions for this person. I would not rearrange your life around this person.

Speaker 1 And I definitely wouldn't give up your business and put your things in storage and move there, even if she did somehow become wealthy. And here's why.

Speaker 1 Not only does this girl have some serious issues, and I'm being delicate when I say that. I think there's something very wrong here.

Speaker 1 She needs a lot of help to work through whatever's at the root of all this stuff.

Speaker 1 These are issues that will probably drive you specifically insane and will make a successful relationship extremely difficult.

Speaker 1 Not only that, she's also not really signaling that she's a safe, respectful, reliable partner.

Speaker 1 She's not showing you that she's willing to meet you on fair and equal terms, that she values the same things you value, that you can count on her.

Speaker 1 This larger pattern of saying one thing and doing another, whether it's small or big. and that impacting you and hurting you in a variety of ways, that tells me everything I need to know.

Speaker 1 And I feel very strongly that you have to pay attention to those signs.

Speaker 3 Yeah, not to mention all the trains you guys are going to miss together when you're traveling. Like that just sounds so annoying.
I can't deal with it.

Speaker 3 I totally agree with everything you just said, Jordan. And look, to be fair to her, her partner, she might have some legitimate reasons to be prioritizing herself right now, right?

Speaker 3 She's 23, 24, 25, whatever. She wants to make good money.
She wants to be stable. She wants to live in China.
She misses it, clearly. All fair.

Speaker 3 What's not fair is how she's communicating that to you and how she's giving you the information you deserve to know where to place her in your life and how strongly to feel for her.

Speaker 3 Is she factoring you into her plans? Sounds like not really. Is she not factoring you into her plans?

Speaker 3 It sounds like kind of except in this very vague way, conditional on her making a ton of money at some vague point in the future.

Speaker 3 It is not clear to me that that point in the future is going to arrive. And even if it did, where does that leave you in the meantime? It's just, it sounds, this does not seem fair.

Speaker 3 And yeah, maybe that's more than a 24-year-old knows how to do. Again, fair enough.
You might be encountering one of the challenges of dating somebody younger than you.

Speaker 3 She might not have all the tools and self-understanding and empathy to navigate this relationship as well as she could be, but I still think that this is about much more than just age.

Speaker 1 Me too, man. If she doesn't work on this stuff, she's going to be 40 with the same problems in the same disgusting bathtub.

Speaker 3 So just to close the loop I opened a moment ago, I think this relationship is an opportunity to consider what exactly drew you to this person. And I hear you that she has a lot of good qualities.

Speaker 3 She's gentle, she's loving, she's thoughtful. In some ways, I guess.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 I'm actually, now that we've talked so much about this, I'm a little confused because, in other ways, it sounds like not so thoughtful. So, that's interesting, too.
When is she thoughtful?

Speaker 3 When is she not thoughtful? Why? And also, you know, whether you have a truly accurate read on your partner. But okay, she can be thoughtful in some cases.
The sex is great.

Speaker 3 She accepts you completely for who you are. All of that is wonderful, but she's also avoidant, skittish, contradictory, inconsistent, untrustworthy, hard to pin down.

Speaker 3 And it sounds to me like you've either discounted that stuff or let it go, or that has played a role in your attraction to her. So there is an attachment style piece to this.

Speaker 3 There is a dynamic at work between the two of you. And I hate to oversimplify.
I'm sure there's so much nuance to all of this, but...

Speaker 3 It does sound like you, a person who struggles to be vulnerable and intimate, chose someone who also, in her own way, struggles to be vulnerable and intimate.

Speaker 3 The question then, of course, is what does this relationship allow you to play out, to work out? What is happening between the two of you?

Speaker 3 What are you maybe hoping to get a handle on or master through this experience?

Speaker 3 Or what might you be avoiding in a relationship, for example, long-term stable commitment and intimacy that this person cannot provide you? Those are just a few questions I would want to explore.

Speaker 1 I feel like I've been dancing around this, but honestly, I'm not sure this relationship is healthy. And I'm I'm not just talking about the shower situation.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So you think they should break up.

Speaker 1 Or our friend here needs to really step back and redefine this relationship. They can keep seeing each other if that's what she wants, but I don't think she should view this girl as a serious partner.

Speaker 1 I don't think she should be making life plans with her because she's not a serious partner or she's not ready.

Speaker 3 Right. Well, yeah, I think I agree.
So maybe the more helpful question is, what am I looking for from this person? And is that a reasonable expectation?

Speaker 3 Is that a healthy expectation now that I know what I know about her?

Speaker 1 And if it isn't, should I still be involved with her? And what type of relationship makes the most sense?

Speaker 3 Yeah, what type of relationship makes the most sense? That is a good question because they could still have contact. They could still talk.
Maybe they see each other when she visits.

Speaker 3 But I think it's really important that we put people in the right place in our minds and in our hearts based on the information that they're giving us.

Speaker 3 You know, her question about this actually contains an interesting insight. She didn't say, should I break up with someone I truly love and reclaim my independence and peace full stop?

Speaker 3 She said, should I break up with someone I truly love and deal with all the pain that comes with that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so she might be sticking with this because if she ends things, she's going to be left with some difficult feelings.

Speaker 3 Which, let's remember from her first letter, is probably precisely what she wants to avoid, right?

Speaker 3 Her whole worldview, her lens on relationships, the way that she has related to people in the past, all of that seemed designed to avoid precisely this vulnerability.

Speaker 3 Now she's allowed herself to feel it, and that comes with the very real possibility of being hurt, of being disappointed, of feeling rejected, of maybe being embarrassed, of knowing that someone can get under her skin, which I think is maybe the greatest injury.

Speaker 3 And by the way, you and I, my friend, are so different on the surface, but I can relate to that injury a lot. And I think a lot of people can.

Speaker 3 It can be very painful to discover that you can just be affected by somebody in this way.

Speaker 1 Totally. It can be a blow to the ego.
You get mad, you get ashamed. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm not as impervious as I thought I was. Exactly.

Speaker 3 But here's the thing, just to bring this full circle. Discovering that you're not impervious, allowing yourself to be affected by another person is very powerful.
It's also very important.

Speaker 3 It's a very meaningful experience in life. Look how much it's teaching you about yourself, about how you relate, about what you truly need.

Speaker 3 It's also important to be thoughtful and judicious about whom you give your heart to, but maybe one of the things playing out between you and this woman.

Speaker 3 This is about to get maybe a little abstract, but stick with me. I think on some level, you knew that you needed to go here to have have a necessary experience, right?

Speaker 3 This is part of the brilliance of the unconscious mind and also part of its magic. And it found this woman who saw you and met you in some very profound ways and who is also retreating from you.

Speaker 3 And I think in some instances, mistreating you in other ways, whether she means to or not.

Speaker 3 Because this is the relationship you needed to have at this moment so that you can learn the things you need to learn, so you can continue to evolve.

Speaker 3 So that process, which is unfolding now, in my view, is much more important than this specific person.

Speaker 1 Fascinating. Well, yeah, I completely agree.
I do feel pretty strongly that this woman is not her person or even a serious partner that she should pursue, at least not at this moment.

Speaker 1 At a minimum, I think you need to pull back a little, just watch for a little while, watch her, watch yourself, get your bearings again.

Speaker 1 It's hard because you're in love and this relationship seems to be presenting you with an urgent choice, but there's really no big rush here. You have a lot of data and some big feelings to sit with.

Speaker 1 But to Gabe's point, this woman entered your life for a reason. And so even if you guys do break up, this is still a very formative relationship.
And I think this was a huge win for you.

Speaker 1 And the biggest win, in my view, is discovering that you do have the capacity to love someone and be vulnerable and appreciate them as a human being, not as a set of costs and benefits.

Speaker 3 And if you do go your separate ways, to discover that you have the capacity to feel these big feelings and survive.

Speaker 1 Which might be the next powerful thing you're about to find out. I'm really proud of you for doing that.
And thank you for sharing this update with us. I mean it when I say this.

Speaker 1 It is inspiring to hear about. It's one of the cool things about doing this show, just remembering how much people can grow when they're willing to try things in a new way.

Speaker 1 Sending you a big hug, wishing you lots of strength and curiosity and wisdom while you make this call. In the meantime, enjoy your spotless bathroom.

Speaker 1 That'd be a deal breaker for me too, in case y'all haven't figured it out. You know what's dirtier than a bathtub full of menorrhea, Gabriel?

Speaker 1 The filthy deals and discounts on the stinking good products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Speaker 3 All right, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, for the last several years, I've worked at a university under the leadership of a fantastic dean.

Speaker 3 When he retired, the institution announced his replacement, and at first, we were excited. Let's call him Adam.

Speaker 3 Adam has won several awards, advanced groundbreaking research in his field, and is recognized as one of the best professors at this university. And then, we got to meet the real him.

Speaker 3 During the first week, he held a meeting where he announced three major changes. First, everyone goes back to the office five days a week.

Speaker 3 Second, he wanted to merge all of our departments together to create a new centralized team, even though we all have drastically different goals, KPIs, services, functions, et cetera.

Speaker 3 This created overlap in many of our jobs, and we all fear layoffs.

Speaker 3 Third, he wanted to build and design a new kind of offering around AI that he believed would increase student enrollment and set up the university for years to come. The best part?

Speaker 3 This meeting was on 9-11, and he concluded the meeting by saying, When you think of 9-11, I hope you don't think of the nation's tragedy, but instead, think of our new AI idea.

Speaker 3 We were all floored. Wow, what a pitch.

Speaker 1 This guy, I'm speechless, dude.

Speaker 3 What's crazier that he's trying to rebrand 9-11 or that he thinks his non-existent e-learning LLM is the thing that's going to do it?

Speaker 1 Good question. This is something you hear on Parks and Rec or something.
This is insane. It's so funny.
This guy has... got his head so far up his own ass.
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 Since then, many people have quit, changed departments, or stopped caring about work altogether. Yeah, relatable.
Needless to say, this guy has crushed the morale and culture in the workplace.

Speaker 1 This is the other 9-11, the 9-11 he's doing on his own organization and department. Jeez, man.

Speaker 3 Oh, and he fired an assistant dean just because he didn't like her. Adam prides himself on asking for feedback and always having an open-door policy.

Speaker 3 And when his new AI idea, which cost thousands of dollars to create, was finally available to our department, he asked for our feedback. To put it simply, it's garbage.

Speaker 3 We expressed our deep concerns about his new offering and he said, don't worry about it. I have a gut feeling that this will be great.
Of course you do.

Speaker 1 And I have a gut feeling this guy's going to be out of a job in about nine months.

Speaker 3 Oh, we'll see about that. He sounds like a politician.
He's taking out his enemies. He's climbing to the top.
I'm sure he might stick around for a while.

Speaker 3 The problem is, for some reason, he's taken a liking to me. and has put me on all of his various committees to help out with his grandiose ideas.

Speaker 3 And just to be clear, Jordan, that's grandiose, not grandiose. I just want you you to know.

Speaker 1 I think it's grandiose, but

Speaker 3 man,

Speaker 1 I'm going to go with grandiose. Man, no good deed goes unpunished, right? You're like, I'll be tolerable.
And he's like, you're my favorite.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, thanks. He refuses to listen to data or reasoning, and I am terrified of the direction we are going in as a school.
How do I work with a person like this?

Speaker 3 Signed, freaking the F Out about a lout with a ton of clout.

Speaker 1 Of course, the guy refuses to listen to data or reasoning. Hey, the data and reasoning all says that your idea is crap.

Speaker 3 I don't want it.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter. Since it's my idea, I think it's actually really good.

Speaker 3 Okay. You know what? It's my idea, so I'm going to go with my gut.

Speaker 1 Can't argue that logic because there isn't any. Man, this is a tough one.
So this goes without saying, I am sorry this guy is your boss. I'm sorry he's so ill-equipped to lead.

Speaker 1 And I'm sorry he's taken a shine to you and made you responsible for carrying out his garbage ideas. That just sucks for all of you.
And I can hear that it's creating a ton of resentment and stress.

Speaker 1 On the flip side, it probably means you're seen as a trustworthy employee, a steady hand, a team player, somebody who can get things done, or at least a useful tool to a narcissist. I sort of kid.

Speaker 1 It probably doesn't mean much coming from a guy like this, really, but those are great. Those are good qualities.

Speaker 1 So, unfortunately, I don't think you can truly successfully work with this guy if he's as narcissistic as you say.

Speaker 1 You probably are never going to have a fully productive, open, fair, gratifying relationship with him because what I'm hearing is that he can't take in difficult data or criticism.

Speaker 1 He can't listen to a reasonable argument. He just rejects it outright and insists that his gut feelings are correct.
So that's the bad news.

Speaker 1 The good news is once you come to terms with the limitations of a boss like this, you can find other options.

Speaker 1 One option is to serve on his committees, shepherd his ideas as best you can, look for ways to make them successful, to be useful. Just do your best.

Speaker 1 If all his ideas are truly wackadoodle, that might not even be possible, but who knows?

Speaker 1 Maybe there's a way to control your piece of them and collaborate with other good people on your team, and you guys can find workable versions of his ideas that do succeed.

Speaker 1 Maybe you become the Atom Whisperer and you can translate his crazy, vague ambitions into actually achievable projects. It happens all the time.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I would give that a real shot for two, three, four months and see what happens regardless, just as an experiment, because A, it might work.

Speaker 1 B, If you decide to pursue more extreme options, you're going to want to know you gave it a fair shot.

Speaker 1 Another option is to find ways of communicating difficult information to your boss in a way that he can take in. Maybe that's something you can collaborate with your colleagues on.

Speaker 1 So maybe you put things in terms that are less threatening. Or you guys get together and present a united front so he can't ignore you.

Speaker 3 Or maybe you kind of appeal to his narcissism when you tell him bad news, like, look, the reality is, you know, whatever, XYZ data.

Speaker 3 I know that's not fun to hear, but, you know, your idea, man, is so good. And I know you would love to see it succeed and be proud of it.

Speaker 3 So if you want to make this work, we do have to talk about this not-so-fun stuff over here. Just, you know, that's another idea.

Speaker 1 Another option, if things get truly untenable and you think this guy's about to do serious damage to the institution, you, your colleagues, you can go over his head and tell the provost or whatever that this guy is a terrible leader and he's doing serious damage to the institution and something needs to change.

Speaker 3 Right. But I would only do that as a last resort if you are convinced that there is no other way to save this place or like if you don't speak up, terrible, terrible things are going to happen.

Speaker 3 And I would also be prepared for blowback if you do that. I mean, this guy could turn against you.
He could fire you. He could retaliate in any number of ways.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that might be a blessing at that point.

Speaker 3 That's true. And or you would have enough documentation, hopefully by that point, to show that he is retaliating against you for speaking up about what I assume are legitimate concerns.

Speaker 3 So there's that.

Speaker 1 Another option, and honestly, this is one I would be pursuing regardless, just as an ongoing policy.

Speaker 1 Start looking for a role on another team with a different boss so you can transfer or start interviewing for other jobs. Basically, start creating opportunities for yourself so you have freedom.

Speaker 1 Six minute networking is a really good way to start doing that. Digging the well before you're thirsty, you're kind of getting thirsty.
Don't get thirstier without digging the well.

Speaker 1 I'm going to torture that metaphor a little more. Anyway, you can go to sixminitenetworking.com.

Speaker 1 This will help you feel better because at least you'll have the keys to the prison if you have enough relationships and you've nurtured those relationships for long enough.

Speaker 1 Then, hey, you could jump ship before it all sinks. Or if Adam ever becomes too much or actually turns on you, you go, cool, I have this other offer over here.
Buy Felicia.

Speaker 1 And on your way out, you just send a memo to the provost telling him your concerns, or you speak your mind in the exit interview, and you give them the full story then.

Speaker 1 Or, look, if you want to keep this job, you go, hey, I have an offer that gives me A, B, and C over here. So if you want me to stay, you're going to have to beat that offer.

Speaker 1 And now you're making enough money to justify putting up with this guy's bullshit, really. But none of that is possible without some leverage.
And that is what having options gives you.

Speaker 1 It gives you freedom. It gives you leverage.
I am sorry that Adam is such a piece of work. It's a shame when people like this end up in positions of power.

Speaker 1 But I also think it's an interesting challenge to learn how to work with people like this and find the good in them if it exists and to adopt the mindset of, I don't love this boss, but I'm determined to help them succeed.

Speaker 1 And let's see what's possible. You never know.
But honestly, people like Adam, my experience is that they usually take enough rope just to hang themselves.

Speaker 1 So you might just want to hang back and let him do that. But while you do, Keep investing in your relationships and in yourself.
Keep creating dots that you can connect.

Speaker 1 That's the smartest thing you could be doing right now. And it'll make coping with this guy so much easier.
Good luck, my friend, and happy early new AI 9-11 over there at your office.

Speaker 1 You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise.
Try to use descriptive subject lines. Your stepdad's got your nudes.

Speaker 1 Your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall. Or your ex-wife with a personality disorder threatened to kill you if you left.

Speaker 1 only to take up residence with her children in the house you bought after you parted ways. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

Speaker 1 We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, our newsletter, We BitWiser, very popular with y'all.
It's delivered most Wednesdays. It's a two-minute read or less.

Speaker 1 If you want to keep up with the wisdom from the show and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.
Okay, what's next?

Speaker 3 Hey, Gordon and Jabe. I've always felt that I have good people skills and can hit it off with anyone.

Speaker 3 I had a few college girlfriends and flings, and they they would always be surprised when I wanted to end things because they seemed to be going well, but I wasn't feeling it and hit it well.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 3 Until recently, I dated a girl for two years. We were a mismatch on many things, like health and fitness, where to live, and even lifestyle, in many ways.

Speaker 3 But something made me think that we were made for each other because we got along so well.

Speaker 3 After basically living together for a while, things came to a head when I broke it off abruptly because I refuse to move to a new city when she goes to grad school. She She also never went to the gym.

Speaker 3 We had discussed both things. The exercise thing is maybe a little shallow, but it is super important to me.

Speaker 3 Of course, she was crushed too because we got along so well and I never seemed perturbed before. How do I not make the same mistakes when picking another girlfriend and maybe future wife?

Speaker 3 When do you explain to someone that something major is lacking and see if they'll change? What's the fix for this?

Speaker 3 Do I need to have standards and suss them out ASAP to see if a new person fits them, even if the dates go well? That seems so rigid, but I don't want to waste my time.

Speaker 3 Or should I just go on many dates while I'm young and recalibrate my standards based on what's out there?

Speaker 3 Signed, try not to lie when my standards are pretty high, and wondering when I should confide that something isn't quite right. Do I cross my T's and dot my I's so that I can finally be satisfied?

Speaker 3 Or do I verify and disqualify? Before I get too petrified, to turn around and say goodbye.

Speaker 1 Great questions. First of all, I think this is something that so many people struggle with, including me at various points in my life.

Speaker 1 It's not always easy to be in touch with your true feelings about somebody and to take those signals seriously. This does get easier as you get older, though.

Speaker 1 The more people you date, the more you notice this pattern, the more you learn about what's important to you in a partner, the easier it becomes to speak up.

Speaker 1 But it starts by taking stock of this stuff, noticing the thoughts and the feelings that come up in a relationship, really honoring those.

Speaker 1 And if that's hard for you, I would make more of an effort to talk to a couple of of trusted people in your life about your relationships.

Speaker 1 Take notes, write things down, get really clear on them so you know where you stand.

Speaker 1 And then while you're at it, I'd probably go a step further and ask yourself, why does this quality or behavior or value matter to me in a partner? What would it do for me?

Speaker 1 What does not having it bring up? And really pull on that thread and see where it leads. Because the deeper question here is, why do these things make me happy or unhappy? Are they fair?

Speaker 1 Are they reasonable? Do they say more about me or about them?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a good question. When is something a legitimate standard or expectation to hold a partner to? And when is it just like a personal preference?

Speaker 3 You know, can you even demand that somebody change in order to stay with them? I think it's complicated. It's confusing, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it really is. Like this gym thing.
He knows it's kind of shallow, maybe, but he also feels it's important to him.

Speaker 1 And I think we can all agree that having some kind of fitness routine is objectively good for you. So is he a dick for saying, sorry, but I can only be with somebody who works out?

Speaker 1 Honestly, I don't know. I don't feel like he is.

Speaker 3 Well, in that instance, he's on more solid ground because he said that they discussed both things in advance, the gym thing and the not moving to a new city thing.

Speaker 3 So he was not hiding the ball in that relationship with those two things. He was open about those from the start.

Speaker 1 So he's already answering his question a little bit. The earlier you get out in front of this stuff with a partner, the easier it is to deal with.

Speaker 1 And the easier it is for the other person to know what matters to you. And then they can decide what to do with that information.

Speaker 1 Either use it to change, if that's what they want to do, or accept the possibility that they're not going to meet all your needs. And then if you break up, it maybe doesn't hurt quite as much.

Speaker 1 At least you were honest.

Speaker 3 Exactly. But that's still a separate thing from whether it's fair to expect someone to conform to all of your wishes, especially the ones that are more superficial.

Speaker 1 I mean, he's allowed to have whatever preferences he has, even if they're kind of shallow. The question is, are those preferences reasonable to enforce in general and with a specific person?

Speaker 1 And Gabriel, look, I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I can't help but notice in discourse about dating and relationships lately, there's quite a double standard when it comes to preferences.

Speaker 1 Like women will say, like, hey, I want a guy that meets,

Speaker 1 does well economically, or like is a certain height or taller than me or something like that. And then everyone's like, hey, that's a preference.
And I agree, that's a preference.

Speaker 1 And you're allowed to have them. And then guys are like, I want a girl who just goes to the gym.
And people are like, you sexist jerk. You're shaming people for their body.
And it's like, well,

Speaker 1 you did want a guy over six feet tall. So is that not the exact same thing?

Speaker 1 And look, we don't have that information here, but I think there's a lot of people that get, they are just punching the air that this guy has a preference that's kind of shallow and he deserves to die alone.

Speaker 1 And it's like a lot of those same people, you ask them their preferences and it's like, you know, kind of the same thing, different flavor.

Speaker 3 So how do we be fair about this? I mean, then it has to apply equally. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Maybe the other important question is, is clinging to this expectation, whether it's this one about going to the gym or any other, is that helping him find the best possible partner?

Speaker 3 Because that, at the end of the day, is what ultimately matters for his choice.

Speaker 1 Everyone would love to have a flawless partner who's ambitious and kind and smart and fit and hot and funny and blah, blah, blah, the whole laundry list. But there's only one of me.

Speaker 1 So you're out of luck, folks. But

Speaker 1 we all know nobody's perfect. So at a certain point, and this is another thing that gets easier as you get older, you learn which things to prioritize.
You learn which things you can let go of.

Speaker 1 You decide what matters most to you and you make healthy trade-offs and things get clearer.

Speaker 1 So half the battle battle is recognizing when something's not working for you, getting clear on what's a preference and what's an actual deal breaker.

Speaker 1 The other half of the battle is speaking up about it. And obviously that's the harder part because that can be a tough conversation.

Speaker 1 That's where you have the potential to hurt someone and you have to be very thoughtful and respectful about how you frame this stuff.

Speaker 1 But to answer your question, When it comes to true deal breakers, I think the earlier you bring them up, the better. And rather than saying, hey, so I really need somebody who goes to the gym.

Speaker 1 If you don't want to work out, I don't know if I can keep dating you. Maybe you try saying, you know, I've been thinking a lot about what's important to me and a partner.

Speaker 1 Being active is one of those things. I'm pretty sure it's a deal breaker.
And I wanted to let you know that I'd love to see you take care of yourself in that way. Not just because I'm kind of shallow.

Speaker 1 Sorry, maybe that's true. But because physical health matters to me and I intend to do the same for you.

Speaker 1 And if you feel otherwise or you don't think that's something you ever want to do, I'd love to talk to you about it and understand that better.

Speaker 1 Frame it as a conversation as opposed to, you know, this is how it is and this is what I want. If you aren't going to give it to me, there's nothing left to say, I'm out.

Speaker 1 Because you might be surprised, you know, they could come around to working out or they might have certain limitations or you might realize that their other qualities matter a lot more to you.

Speaker 1 Or you don't budge on this, but at least you didn't handle it like an a-hole and blindside them. And yes, I do think that part of the dating skill set is sussing people out quickly.

Speaker 1 and seeing if you're compatible with them on the dimensions that matter to you. Yes, that can be rigid.

Speaker 1 Sometimes it's good to be rigid if you're sure about your standards and you don't want to waste your time or the other person's time.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's true. That can actually be a form of kindness in some cases sometimes.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like I said in that script I pitched, it's also good to know when not to write people off too quickly because then you might miss someone great or you miss out on a relationship that isn't perfect, but gives you other important things.

Speaker 1 Like our friend from question one, although speaking of deal breakers, a dirty bathtub with period blood in it, definitely a deal broker for me.

Speaker 1 We're talking about that on day one.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's one to be rigid about, I think.

Speaker 3 So we're definitely answering a couple of his questions here, but the real theme of his letter to me is this mismatch between his inner experience and what he's communicating to his partners.

Speaker 3 Like he said, he had these college girlfriends. They were always surprised when he ended things because they seemed to be going well, but he wasn't feeling it.
He hid it well, to use his words.

Speaker 3 And then with this most recent girlfriend, when he ended things, she was crushed because... they got along so well.
And as he put it, I never seemed perturbed before.

Speaker 1 And that went on for two years. That's a long time.
Two years.

Speaker 3 It's a very long time. So it's hard for him to know his true feelings sometimes, but it sounds like he's also really good at hiding his true feelings.

Speaker 3 So there might be an element of performance here or censorship. So it sounds like there's an element of performance and maybe even censorship here sometimes.

Speaker 3 It also sounds like he can deceive himself a little bit or tell himself a certain story, like with his most recent ex.

Speaker 3 Something made me feel like we were made for each other because we got along so well. But his superpower is getting along so well with people.

Speaker 3 And meanwhile, there were all of these other issues that he wasn't really being honest about.

Speaker 1 Well, I might also chalk that up to being young. The more you date, the more you realize, oh, I can get along with somebody well.
I can have a great time with them.

Speaker 1 They can be awesome in this way, that way, the other way. And they can still be the wrong person for me.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 3 And then he doesn't speak up about how he's really feeling until the last possible moment, at which point the breakup feels very abrupt, which can be pretty upsetting and confusing for the other person.

Speaker 3 But he's doing that once there's a decision point or a crisis that brings everything to a head and then it kind of makes the problems impossible to ignore and or kind of takes it out of his hands.

Speaker 3 You know, it's like, oh, well, you're moving to a new city. I guess that's the end for us.
And it's like, surprise. So I'm trying to understand what the roots of this pattern might be.

Speaker 3 And I'm just thinking about that detail once again that he began his letter with. I've always felt that I have good people skills and can, you know, hit it off with anyone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 3 So useful quality, right? Great way to make friends, great skill for sales, for building relationships, probably makes you great at a party. I'm a big fan of this quality.

Speaker 3 And does being able to hit it off with anyone also imply a chameleon-like quality a little bit?

Speaker 3 Is there like an ability to shapeshift to some degree, to adapt very easily to another person's personality and ingratiate yourself with them and possibly kind of ignore some difficult little moments?

Speaker 3 Possibly, kind of.

Speaker 1 I think it does. And does that necessarily involve kind of muting aspects of your own personality?

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 So we might be hearing from a guy who is very adept at connecting, being liked, being easygoing, and who doesn't want to create too many waves or hurt anyone, but who, in the process, might also be shutting down some uncomfortable thoughts and feelings in his relationships and then not sharing important information with his partners along the way.

Speaker 3 That's what I'm getting at.

Speaker 1 Yes, fascinating. It's like the same qualities that make him so good at starting relationships are making it hard for him to manage those relationships because those require such different skills.

Speaker 3 Yes, good point.

Speaker 3 So this would be a really great thing to explore how this agreeable quality and this adaptable quality can be an asset in your relationships, but might also be causing you to hide and perform a little bit.

Speaker 3 And if you're interested in this, which I think you are because you seem to want to rewrite this pattern, and like you said, the stakes might be finding your wife.

Speaker 3 I would keep digging to find the origins of those qualities and just figure out why it's so important to keep things on an even keel all the time with your partners, to constantly avoid potentially hurting hurting them.

Speaker 3 What is so risky about speaking up when something doesn't sit well with you? And why does that come so naturally to you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, dot, dot, dot, childhood.

Speaker 3 Dot, dot, dot, always childhood, of course. Spoiler alert now and forever.
But still, you know, what was his childhood like? And what particular furnace were those qualities forged?

Speaker 3 You know, that's going to be unique to him. The last thing I'll share, and I think Jordan and I talked about this a few months back.
All relationships are minefields to some degree.

Speaker 3 We constantly risk hurting the other person. We constantly risk being hurt.
It's very intense. And most of us want to dance around those minds as much as possible.
What could be more normal than that?

Speaker 3 But another thing that you will hopefully learn as you get older is how to bear the distress of potentially hurting someone's feelings and leaning into that when it's necessary and knowing that if you handle it well, it can often be the less hurtful thing to do.

Speaker 3 If you clock something early on in a relationship that doesn't sit quite right with you, you know, somebody talks to you in a certain way that you don't love, or they're neglecting their health, or they don't value something that matters to you, whether it's superficial or more profound, whatever it is, you can learn to say, hey, this might be a little bit of a tough conversation and it is not my intention to hurt you at all, but I do want us to understand each other as well as we can.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to try something new for me, which is. I'm going to speak up and I'm going to share this with you.
I'm noticing this thing.

Speaker 3 It's bringing up this feeling, this thought, this question, whatever it is. I've thought a lot about it.
It matters to me for these reasons.

Speaker 3 And I just want to share that with you and check it out with you. And then see where that conversation goes.

Speaker 3 That's another way you can avoid this mistake with future partners, just by learning to speak up when your impulse might be to stay quiet and pretend that everything's fine.

Speaker 3 But then when you play that out, if you break up with somebody or bring something up much later, it's like, oh, the rug has been pulled out from under me. That's very painful.

Speaker 3 That's not just a tactical thing. It's a willingness to risk provoking some difficult feelings in you and in the other person, but in the pursuit of a more honest and fair relationship.

Speaker 3 I think that is one way that you're going to bridge this gap between your experience and your partner's experiences and allow people to hopefully be on the same page with you.

Speaker 1 Amen, Gabe. Couldn't agree more.
Knowing your values, your deal breakers, what you want, all super important.

Speaker 1 And yes, I do think you'll recalibrate those as you date more people and as you evolve yourself.

Speaker 1 But if you can't fully show up in your relationships, if you're not having these meaningful conversations, then that stuff won't even get you that far.

Speaker 1 So your job now is to give this a go and start building these muscles.

Speaker 3 It's all learning.

Speaker 1 Love your mindset. Love your willingness to grow.
It's going to serve you very well.

Speaker 3 Good luck.

Speaker 1 You know what else is kind of shallow? My obsession with the super attractive deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate and obviously very attractive listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

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Speaker 1 Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Speaker 1 All right. And now for the recommendation of the week.

Speaker 3 So you've all heard Jordan make fun of me for the last several months for my crossbody bag.

Speaker 1 You mean your purse, yeah.

Speaker 3 My crossbody bag, which goes across my body in a very normal, masculine way. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a man purse. Let's call a spade a spade.

Speaker 3 It's whatever you want to call it. It's a crossbody bag.
And if it were 50% larger, you would call it a messenger bag and this would not be a conversation. But okay, fine.

Speaker 3 Man purse, crossbody bag, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 1 It matches your blouse.

Speaker 3 Okay. But yeah.

Speaker 3 Haven't owned the blouse for like 15 to 18 years, but okay. This thing has been an absolute game changer.
And the fact that men can rock masculine purses, don't even, you don't need to say it.

Speaker 3 I won't.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying anything.

Speaker 3 I know, but your face is just the fact that dudes can rock masculine purses now is one of the greatest developments of our culture because our storage game, just as a gender, is a travesty.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it would be so great if there was like something you could wear on your back that held a lot of things. Anyway, I don't disagree with that.
I'm either going huge backpack.

Speaker 1 Oh, right, those exist, or everything is spilling out of my pockets. There's no in-between.
And no, I don't believe in cargo pockets.

Speaker 3 No, I'm not advocating for, that's so funny. My recommendation of the week is cargo shorts.

Speaker 1 Cargo shorts. Dockers with cargo pockets.
Sorry, people who wear those.

Speaker 3 This crossbody bag is like cargo shorts that you can put on your shoulders that aren't horrifically embarrassing.

Speaker 3 But you make an excellent point, Jordan, because there is an in-between, and it's the crossbody bag. So there are tons of great options out there, but I have the Cotopaxi Alpa X hip pack.
It's simple.

Speaker 3 It's sturdy. It has tons of pockets and compartments.
You can store your wallet, your keys, your phone. You can fit a battery charge.
I put a toothbrush in there. Of course you do.

Speaker 3 I have a whole dental kit in there. You know, jewelry,

Speaker 3 tea bags, like you name it.

Speaker 1 Beads, a toothbrush. And yeah, this is the most Gabriel bag ever for sure.

Speaker 3 It's a Gabriel bag because of what Gabriel's putting in it. But other than that, it's good for everybody.

Speaker 1 It holds on like beads, everybody.

Speaker 3 You can really fit everything in this very compact thing. So one of the greatest products I have ever gotten, and it also makes a great gift, and it comes in all kinds of colors.

Speaker 3 Some of them are like very zany. I would describe it as like the color of a hippie Subaru, which is not really my jam, like blue and orange and all this stuff.

Speaker 3 I just went with the black on black, and you can dress it up or dress it down, and it's very versatile. The Codopaxi Alpa X hip pack, we're going to link to it.

Speaker 1 in the show notes. I just googled it and it's, it does hold a lot of stuff and it does look nice.

Speaker 1 And I like, I actually like the blue, orange combo color thing the thing is i either carry a ton of crap or like nothing so i'm trying to figure out the use case for me with having something like this i think it's the kind of thing you probably get it and then you're like this is so useful how did i survive without this i am mentally adding this to my holiday shopping list for you all right because i really think once you own it you're going to be shocked by how often you use it it's pretty great i think you may be onto something all right despite all my roasting of your ridiculous paraphernalia i'm actually like i said a little bit jealous of this man purse crossbody bag It does look awesome.

Speaker 1 Good wreck. In case y'all didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show.

Speaker 1 If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes or just about hip packs, it's going to be a hip pack thread now.

Speaker 1 If there was an episode you liked, you'd want to complain about hip packs or recommend other hit packs, come join us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, next up.

Speaker 3 Hey, Jordan, we're the same age, and we're fathers with sons coming of age at similar times.

Speaker 3 Have you thought about how you might go about distilling your life experience, knowledge, and wisdom into some advice that your surly, hormonal teenage son can absorb when the time comes?

Speaker 3 Are you, like me, already dreading that you might mess it up? Signed, wanting to know how you plan to guide your Bambino.

Speaker 1 I wasn't until you asked this question. Thanks a lot, man.

Speaker 3 I kid.

Speaker 1 I guess my first thought is, yes, of course, part of my job is imparting knowledge and wisdom onto my kids, but I also think that what matters most is the example you set for your kids, how you model the right values and behavior for them from a young age.

Speaker 1 So if you do that, I got to think 80 to 90% of the lecturing is unnecessary.

Speaker 1 It's what they see in you, how you conduct yourself, how you treat people, how you manage your life, how you spend your time, how you react to challenges.

Speaker 1 All of that determines their values, their behavior, their character, not so much what you say.

Speaker 1 And if what you say isn't aligned with how you live your life, they see that and they notice the contradiction, especially when they become teenagers. We all remember that time.

Speaker 1 And I think that can create skepticism and resentment. That's no bueno, obviously.
But obviously there's a role for distilling experience and knowledge to your kids.

Speaker 1 And so my hope there is that I manage to share it in a way that's loving, in a way that's respectful, in a way that's designed to serve them, rather than to make me feel better or check some parenting box.

Speaker 1 I just, I don't just want to be that lecturing dad or that moralizing dad unless the situation really calls for it.

Speaker 1 I also want to teach my kids through stories more than ideas because A, if I don't have a story that illustrates a certain point, I probably don't have the best point.

Speaker 1 And B, stories have the power to capture a lesson really clearly and they cut through the noise. They get around our thinking mind.
They hit us more emotionally, more spiritually.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is why ancient traditions and parables and all that stuff exists, right? And that's really useful with all people, but especially with kids.

Speaker 1 I also know that no parent is perfect in this department.

Speaker 1 There will be times when my kids won't listen to me or they won't understand something, or maybe they're going to want to try things in their own way.

Speaker 1 And when that happens, I just hope I can be a soft landing for them to come back and talk about it.

Speaker 1 And we could talk about whether I was right or they were right or we were both right and see what we can learn from the situation.

Speaker 1 And my goal isn't necessarily to be right in every conceivable way, in every single instance.

Speaker 1 My goal is to share my wisdom as best I can and then be in a process with my kids that hopefully leads to even more learning and growth and closeness. That's really my goal.

Speaker 1 Also, I do plan on taking my kids on a lot of business trips with me when they're older, if they want to go, especially if I go to a cool place.

Speaker 1 A lot of kids, they only see their parents at home or they only see them in a certain context. You know, they're relaxed, they're on the couch, they're doing home stuff.

Speaker 1 I would love for my kids to see me in my work context, doing interviews, meeting with partners, traveling to interesting places, whatever it is. And that way, they can get to know other parts of dad.

Speaker 1 They can also be exposed to new environments that most kids are just never going to see. And they can hopefully learn some great stuff from that too.

Speaker 1 much more directly than just hearing me talking about it when I get home.

Speaker 1 And if all else fails, I'm just going to make them listen to the entire back library of the show and take notes on not to screw up your life.

Speaker 3 Just hit play and walk around the block for two and a half years. That's a solid.

Speaker 1 Exactly. That should do it.
Especially Feedback Friday. My kids are going to have the cleanest bathtubs.

Speaker 1 Great question. Thank you for sharing it.
If you're already thinking about this, I'm sure you're a great dad who's onto all the right stuff and you're going to get through to your son.

Speaker 1 Go back and check out Christopher Wickcomb and our Skeptical Sunday on ketamine if you haven't done so yet.

Speaker 1 Show notes on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

Speaker 1 You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.
This show is created in association with Podcast One.

Speaker 1 My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadis Adlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own.
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer.

Speaker 1 So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, We rise by lifting others.
Share the show with those you love.

Speaker 1 If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

Speaker 1 In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show about how sanctions work and whether or not they're effective.

Speaker 7 At the base level, a sanction, which is a law or regulation that is intended to disallow access to the U.S. financial system or to U.S.
goods or to services from U.S.

Speaker 1 citizens, is a sanction.

Speaker 7 People want to hold dollars, they want access to the U.S. system, they want to list on the New York Stock Exchange, right?

Speaker 7 These are real elements of power in a global environment where money, power, economic influence is a part of competition and warfare.

Speaker 7 I often said at the Treasury Department, our job strategically was to make it harder, costlier, and riskier for America's enemies to raise and move money around the world.

Speaker 7 But that's the essence of this power, and it sits between the talking of diplomacy and the hard power of our military. And that's why people resort to it so often.

Speaker 7 But I do think there are going to be challenges fundamentally to U.S. predominance in this space.

Speaker 7 Challenges to the dollar, challenges to the payment systems, and challenges to the notion that this is the safest, most secure place to hold your money, to invest in, and most attractive place because of our capital markets, rule of law, etc.

Speaker 7 That's why I think some of these state actors have an interest in undermining the credibility of our institutions.

Speaker 7 Like it or not, the economic and financial domain is a domain of conflict and competition.

Speaker 1 Do you want to be legitimate and be able to operate in the global system?

Speaker 1 To learn how the U.S. wields its financial power against terrorists, rogue states, and global crime syndicates, check out episode 863 on the Jordan Harbinger Show with Juan Zarate.

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Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 5 Thank you for listening to the Murdoch Murders Podcast, the show that started it all. 93 episodes will take you on a journey of twists and turns, ups and downs, tears and belly laughs.

Speaker 5 We continue this mission with our newest evolution, True Sunlight. Luna Shark's True Sunlight podcast is the antithesis of true crime.
True Sunlight values accuracy over access journalism.

Speaker 5 True Sunlight is shed with empathy, not exploitation. True Sunlight is the intersection of journalism, true crime, and systemic corruption.

Speaker 5 We continue to shed light on Stephen Smith's case and Alex Murdoch's co-conspirators, but also we like to take deep dives into other cases around the country.

Speaker 5 True Sunlight empowers listeners to understand their legal and judicial systems with our unique brand of pesky journalism.

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