1245: Black Friday | Skeptical Sunday

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Speaker 1 Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.
Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher Jessica Wynn.

Speaker 1 On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

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Speaker 1 Today we're talking about Black Friday, that wonderful time of year when Americans express gratitude on Thursday and commit petty violence over flat screen TV is on Friday.

Speaker 1 Black Friday is traditionally the biggest shopping day of the year, but is it really a deal? What actually drives us to run for these sales? Are we saving money?

Speaker 1 Are we just buying the illusion of discounts? Here to sell us the facts is writer and researcher Jessica Wynne. Hey, Jess, so you ready to throw some elbows for a good deal?

Speaker 3 Oh my gosh, no, I will stay home, thanks. But I am fascinated that Black Friday is our most aggressive holiday and doesn't even involve fireworks or other explosives.
And you're right.

Speaker 3 We do go from being thankful on Thursday to get the hell out of my way. That's my Instant Pot on Friday.

Speaker 1 Right. It's bizarre, but this is not a real holiday, right? This is just kind of a made-up thing.
Come on.

Speaker 3 Technically, no. Black Friday isn't a federal holiday.
The government doesn't recognize it. The post office stays open.
And federal workers don't get the day off.

Speaker 3 But it is considered a retail holiday. The stock market closes early, and culturally, it's a holy day for spending.

Speaker 1 Retail holiday. But what is Black Friday? Yeah, fake.
Fake AF. What is Black Friday anymore? Is it still people camping outside Best Buy or is it more like an internet bloodbath now?

Speaker 3 I mean, honestly, it's both. So Black Friday and Cyber Monday have kind of fused into one long shopping week.

Speaker 3 Black Friday was for big ticket items like major appliances and electronics, and Cyber Monday was for clothes, books, and smaller gadgets. But now it's all blended.

Speaker 3 Retailers offer both in-store and online deals and start discounts before Thanksgiving and keep them going through what is now called Cyber Week.

Speaker 1 So it's not even a day anymore. It's like Capitalism Month or whatever.
But hasn't Cyber Monday killed the whole concept of Black Friday? I just figured that would happen.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't go to stores unless I kind of have to.

Speaker 3 Right. But no, Cyber Monday did not and will not kill Black Friday.
Businesses are just too smart for that and retailers just adapted.

Speaker 3 They learned that they can make more money by stretching the hype across platforms, in-store and online. So shoppers end up chasing both.
The season is what matters.

Speaker 1 The 12 days of consumer debt, I guess.

Speaker 3 You should write that song. Black Friday does need a banger anthem, but the sales marathon can also be a gamble.
Some consumers find that waiting until Cyber Monday can lead to better deals.

Speaker 3 But if you guess wrong, you would have saved more in person on Friday. There can be a lot of disappointment on Monday.
So there's even a name for it. It's called loss aversion.

Speaker 3 And it's when the pain of missing out on a discount is perceived as greater than the pleasure of acquiring the item itself.

Speaker 1 Turns out we aren't that thankful for what we have, I guess. So where did all this start? I remember when Black Friday was all about like the door busters, you know, people camp out.

Speaker 1 You got a tent in the parking lot at Walmart, trampling each other for cabbage patch kids and slightly less expensive TVs.

Speaker 3 Right. I mean, the term Black Friday is interesting.

Speaker 3 It actually began with a gold market crash on September 24th, 1869, after two financiers manipulated the price of gold, but it didn't have anything to do with shopping yet.

Speaker 3 The evidence against these finance guys was literally a blackboard on which they had written their plans. So the term Black Friday was used for the next few decades to refer to any financial scam.

Speaker 1 Wait, what? So I, that's funny. So instead of a sale, it was actually originally supposed to be a financial scam, which is hilarious.
And I thought this was because businesses were in the black.

Speaker 1 I thought it was, that was why they named it that, you know, from the sales. They finally got out of the red and into the black because it's the last two months of the year or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 That's what it turned into, but not how it started.

Speaker 3 So the term was used again in the 1950s in Philadelphia, where police used it to describe the chaos the day after Thanksgiving, when huge crowds of shoppers and tourists flooded the city for the annual Army-Navy football game.

Speaker 1 So from the beginning, it was about chaos. Perfect branding, then, actually.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And the day after Thanksgiving was a burden for Philly police. They had to work overtime to manage the crowds and traffic.
It was gridlock fights, theft. total mayhem even back then.

Speaker 3 It still didn't have anything to do with describing profits. It was used to describe the dark nightmare for the cops.

Speaker 3 Retailers actually hated the term because they feared it kept people out of stores. And they tried to launch Big Friday for sales marketing, but

Speaker 3 that didn't catch on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Big Friday. Okay.
Of course, Philadelphia led the charge, though. It's easy to make that city lose its mind.
So it's so not surprising they turned Christmas shopping into a contact sport.

Speaker 3 I know. I mean, Philly folks are just...
passionate about everything, I guess. Sure.

Speaker 3 But by the 1980s, retailers adopted the term and gave it a new positive meaning, the day when they made their annual profit moving from the red, meaning losses, to the black, meaning gains.

Speaker 3 That's when Black Friday became the brick-and-mortar shopping phenomenon we know today.

Speaker 1 Okay, but why do we do this? It seems like the antithesis of what we should want from the holidays.

Speaker 3 Well, it's part cultural phenomenon and part biology. Our brains are wired to chase scarcity.

Speaker 3 So when something seems limited, like only three left, it triggers the same reward circuits as survival instincts. Those sale ads land where dopamine meets desperation.

Speaker 1 Okay. So Etsy does, you know, it's funny.
Etsy does that. I'll put something in my cart and it's like, so there's three left and it's in 22 carts.
Just saying. Just saying.
Right.

Speaker 3 Yeah. 25 people are looking at this.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This crocheted Mario cart doily or whatever. And it's like, okay, must be a hot seller.
So a doorbuster sale is like the retail term for fight or flight.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a lot like gambling or scrolling. The same parts of the brain are lit up.
Throw in sleep deprivation, group frenzy, and the illusion of a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

Speaker 3 And rationality goes out the window. Most people are hungover and running on adrenaline and pumpkin pie.

Speaker 3 And for retailers, Black Friday is meant to attract large crowds in hopes of bringing in more sales.

Speaker 3 So all that combined means many Black Friday shoppers aren't functioning at their best, resulting in grumpy moods and bad decisions.

Speaker 1 We know it's insane. We know it's dangerous.
And yet every year people do it again.

Speaker 4 And I'm always like, why?

Speaker 1 Why are you doing this to yourself?

Speaker 3 Because it works. Our brains are reward-seeking machines.
When we score a good deal, it releases dopamine, the same chemical involved in gambling or addiction. It feels good.

Speaker 3 And it gets more interesting when you look at the studies showing how men and women respond differently to this frenzy.

Speaker 1 Okay, gender bias and shopping. Go on.

Speaker 3 Well, we could do a whole episode on gender bias and shopping, but numerous studies confirm things like pink tax, where products marketed to women cost more, women sellers online can charge more because people think they're more trustworthy.

Speaker 3 And how algorithms and advertising nudge men and women into different stores and sites. Economists call this statistical discrimination.

Speaker 1 Huh. So if you're running a scam, pretend you're a woman doing the scamming.
Absolutely. And maybe you'll get away with more and be able to charge more.

Speaker 1 Really, that sounds like a fancy way of saying companies charge women more just for existing.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 1 Possible. Okay.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. But the bottom line is everyone wants to feel like they got the best deal, especially on Black Friday.
And these studies show that men and women actually approach the chaos differently.

Speaker 3 For men, it's about self-control.

Speaker 3 The more self-control a man has, the less likely he is to be affected by the music, the crowds, the colors, everything designed to make people push, shove, cut in line, because they are made to feel like they have to buy something.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Yeah, I can sort of vouch for that.
Like I'll be in a store near Christmas and they're blasting Mariah Carey.

Speaker 1 and throwing out the pumpkin spice, latte, whatever it is, like fumes into the mall. And I'm like, I'm immune to this.
My wallet shall not open. I'm just here for the festivities.

Speaker 1 And it's like, why am I here? But yeah, I don't know. It doesn't, it doesn't work on me.
And I am proud of that. Okay.
So it's not the same for women, I take it.

Speaker 3 Well, don't shoot the messenger here, but for women, self-control doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1 Ooh, warm up those emails, folks. Yeah.
All right. Not getting, yeah, continue.
You better explain yourself, I think.

Speaker 3 This is based on studies, everyone. Science.
So what

Speaker 3 arguing.

Speaker 3 What matters is social awareness to women, what researchers call public self-consciousness, meaning how much you care about how other people see you.

Speaker 3 They find that women who are more self-conscious are more likely to lose it when in a retail setting if they can't get exactly what they want.

Speaker 1 So the ones who care the most about appearances are the first to go viral. Karen, okay.

Speaker 1 Interesting. All right.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because it's not about the behavior at the store. It's about, you know, keeping up with the Joneses.
They want the right color and they don't want to wait in line.

Speaker 3 Marketing, website designs, and in-store environments are aimed differently at men and women.

Speaker 3 The lights, the playlists, the people in the ads are catered toward emotions for women shoppers because they are found to be influenced by storytelling while catering toward deal bragging for men.

Speaker 3 So they feel they got the best price of their wit.

Speaker 1 Interesting. It's men fighting impulses and women worrying about image.
And this all leads to outrageous battles. Like men smart, women emotional.

Speaker 1 Man, this explains a lot of Reddit videos though, right? These crazy Black Friday ones, especially.

Speaker 3 And the shopping environment fuels it both online and in person. Corporations are very aware of shoppers' mentality.

Speaker 3 So retailers design these sales to create scarcity and urgency, all meant to trigger that adrenaline-fueled response. Emotional shoppers are really good for sales.

Speaker 1 I can't remember where this was. It was a, there's a, a bar that I used to go to, I think in Michigan, and I just, this is always stuck in my head.

Speaker 1 Sorry, New York, actually. And there's a sign on the jukebox that's always there around this time of year.

Speaker 1 And it says, no Mariah Carey between it's like December 27 and November 28 or something like that.

Speaker 1 So basically like from the day after Thanksgiving until the day after Christmas, you can play Mariah Carey and you're not allowed to do that beforehand.

Speaker 1 And I remember asking what happens if somebody plays it because you obviously don't need the sign if you can just remove it from the jukebox. And he's like, I will,

Speaker 1 he said, me or the other bartender will stop what we're doing. We will walk out from the bar and we will rip the plug out of the wall.
And that's it.

Speaker 1 And when people start going like, boo, it's like, no, Mariah Perry. Like they just wait till people complain and then they plug it back in, which of course like resets it.

Speaker 1 So if you had money in there, like tough.

Speaker 3 I respect that. So everyone hates the person.
I know. I know.

Speaker 1 I was like, that's amazing. But also, wow, you guys really, you know, maybe have a drink, bartender.
Maybe that's, maybe you should relax a little. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, music's, it's powerful and it can set the mood. It can build anticipation.
It can even make people spend more. I mean, those playlists are curated very,

Speaker 3 very particularly to make us happy to be in the store. And I don't know about you, but there's a few times I've teared up at a commercial for a product I have no interest in.
Like it got me, you know?

Speaker 3 But when shoppers have an emotional reaction, good or bad, they're actually more likely to misbehave yeah no you're right you like tear up and you're like i need the sonic care you're like wait what's wrong with me what's wrong with me this is great advertising

Speaker 3 um misbehave okay like steal a pair of slippers or what not quite but consumer misbehavior is the broad term for all the chaos on black friday and the unethical and disruptive ways people act while shopping.

Speaker 3 The stuff that violates social norms, like ripping a doll out of a child's hands or pushing an old lady down to get a product first, cutting in line, things that can harm businesses or other customers and turn shopping into this moral free-for-all.

Speaker 1 So basically we need shoppers anonymous meetings.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm Jordan. I shoved a granny down for a discounted air fryer.

Speaker 3 Hi, Jordan. Yeah.
Hi, Jordan.

Speaker 1 I can never relate to these people. I'm just like, order the thing online.
Calm down. You were going to save $12.

Speaker 3 I know. I mean, seriously, something happens to people on Black Friday.
In 2011, on Black Friday, just after midnight, a 61-year-old man collapsed at a target as the doors opened.

Speaker 3 People literally stepped over him during those first critical life-saving minutes. Eventually, an off-duty nurse and paramedic tried to help, but it was too late.
He died in the frenzy of a sale rush.

Speaker 1 Well, he should have had a heart attack at home.

Speaker 3 No, that's awful.

Speaker 1 That is terrible. So this is, is this bystander effect? Is Is that right? Everyone assumes somebody else is going to help, but nobody does.

Speaker 1 Even when the emergency is over like a laboo boo doll or what's that? There's like a glass bearer at Starbucks. You know anything about this?

Speaker 3 Yeah. I just saw that this week.
What is going on? People are brawling in Starbucks over a honey bear thing. I don't understand.
Like, why do you need that?

Speaker 1 I will never understand. People who don't care about most things will be like, but they engrave your name on it while you wait.
And you're like, and

Speaker 1 it's just like, they're like sweating. They need it.
It's crazy how you can induce this kind of want in people.

Speaker 3 Yeah, those people should not try hard drugs because that's what it's what it's doing.

Speaker 1 It's like, like, you think this glass bear is amazing? You should try cocaine. You'll really like that.

Speaker 3 People love it.

Speaker 3 But I mean, retailers know exactly how to create that mayhem. They make it feel like it's every shopper for himself.
This is war.

Speaker 3 And those doorbusters, like the only two left signs, they're just bait to get you inside. Once you're there, they hope you'll buy other high margin stuff.

Speaker 1 Sure, you saved 100 bucks on a TV. Now buy a $90 HDMI cable that was 38 cents to manufacture.
It's a sneaky strategy.

Speaker 3 And the crossed out original price, the crowds, social media, so many things are engineered to make you think the deal is life or death. Like even the presence of other shoppers can drive you insane.

Speaker 1 And it's just proof of what influences people's decisions those store layouts are intentionally confusing to keep you wandering and buying you know that pavlov would be mesmerized first of all but this reminds me of ikea you ever go to ikea and you're like i just want like a bookshelf it's like the one place that gives me anxiety yes i feel trapped you are trapped it's set up like it's high stakes your reward is meatballs when you get out of this rat maze you go in and you're like i need a lamp and a bookshelf and then suddenly you're like oh i do need like fluorescent wire lighting that I can wrap around the bottom edge of my bed frame.

Speaker 1 Oh, look at this. A new shower door on both.

Speaker 3 I have bumper shakers.

Speaker 1 Yes, shaped like airplanes or whatever it is. So my friend hates Ikea.
I mean, I don't like going there just because of that maze and the fact that it's a madhouse, but my friend.

Speaker 1 Really, really, really hates IKEA. Let me rephrase this.
We are not that close. This person is a little crazy, but he sent me a, this is awful.
I shouldn't even,

Speaker 1 I hate giving people ideas.

Speaker 1 okay so what he did was you know how Ikea has bathroom setups where it's like a shower door a toilet and then there's another layer yeah so what he did

Speaker 1 is he took he printed out a piece of paper that had like fake IKEA letterhead on it right just color logo and then he wrote

Speaker 1 this bathroom is functional what

Speaker 1 be respectful of other shoppers but give it a try when you get a chance and see how this fits in with your existing decor or whatever something along those lines so basically basically, and he put it like next to the toilet.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 you know damn well somebody was like, wow, this bathroom's functional. Well, there's no one else here.
I'm just going to urinate in this thing.

Speaker 1 And it's like, this bathroom was not functional after all.

Speaker 3 I love that so much.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's horrifyingly disgusting. And you know, you know, someone tried it.
Someone sat there and did it. Oh, for sure.
But great prank.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's my kind of prank for sure. And that could lead to, I would imagine, some disagreements on the floor.
Like, yeah.

Speaker 3 And Black Friday violence stories are endless. You know, the worst story I came across is from 2008 at a Walmart on Long Island.
2,000 people were waiting outside.

Speaker 3 Glass doors shattered as they stormed in. And a 34-year-old employee was trampled to death.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus. I mean, for what? A discounted microwave? This is such a shame.

Speaker 3 I know. I don't think it was microwaves, but 2008 was the year of hot items like the Nintendo Wii, Xbox 360, and PlayStation 3.

Speaker 3 And when the Walmart on Long Island tried to close because someone had died, shoppers complained. They didn't want to lose the deals over one measly life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, did anyone ask for his employee discount?

Speaker 3 Jordan's.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what?

Speaker 1 They're not going to get more dead, and I need Legos. So the Hunger Games, but substitute Jeff Bezos as President Snow, basically.

Speaker 3 That's not. wrong.
That same year at a Toys R Us in California, two couples argued while shopping for a toy.

Speaker 3 It escalated to such an extreme that the men each pulled out guns and shot each other to death.

Speaker 1 Jeez, no wonder Jeffrey went out of business. Peace on earth, goodwill toward men.
Unless it's the last tickle Mielmo doll, then y'all better stay strapped. That's crazy to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, that's being human, unfortunately. All it takes is one bad seed to ruin the experience for everyone.

Speaker 3 People see someone cut in line or grab the last item, and suddenly everyone's adrenaline spikes. Fairness disappears.
Mob mentality takes over.

Speaker 3 In 2012, at a Sears in San Antonio, Texas on Thanksgiving night, a shopper cut in line. A guy in line behind him punched him in the face.
The cutter pulled out a gun and then took off.

Speaker 3 The police caught up with him, but he was released because he had a concealed handgun permit. And then Sears gave him a store voucher for his next visit.

Speaker 3 And amazingly, shopping just resumed as normal 10 minutes after the incident.

Speaker 1 Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 I guess a lot of it plays off parents wanting to make perfect memories, but like, here's the memory of grandpa going to prison because he pulled out a Glock on somebody after they punched him in the face because Grandpa cut in line because he really needed to get you that.

Speaker 1 I don't know. What is the, my daughter has these like unicorn dolls that they don't hatch from eggs, but they come in eggs and they're scented, which is just disgusting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like endocrine disrupting fake fragrances. And I'm just like, can we throw this away immediately? And, you know, she loves him.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think in my day, my little ponies were like that.

Speaker 1 Yes, and they smell too. They had scented ones.
And it's like just some chemicals smeared across the ass of this plastic pony that already smells like plastic.

Speaker 3 Jeez. It makes me feel bad for any time I was ungrateful for a gift when I was little because who knows what my parents went through to get it, you know? But I know.

Speaker 3 Have you ever gone over the top for something like above and beyond for a gift for your wife or kids?

Speaker 1 Look, this is going to sound privileged, but I don't care because I'm telling you the truth. I don't do the lines, man.
My trick is simple. I just overpay online.

Speaker 1 Yes, someone is probably scalping my Xbox thing or whatever, but if that idiot wants to camp outside Target all night and then use his inside man to get one of these things, I can just pay 20% more and have it shipped to my door.

Speaker 1 It's worth it. That's actually how I got, not the original Xbox.
I have this slightly different shaped, more powerful one. I can't remember what it's called.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's Xbox One or something like that. And it was like, it's not available anywhere.
It's out of stock everywhere. And I was just like, let me look online and find one.

Speaker 1 And the guy was like, here you go, but I'm charging 50 extra dollars. And I was like, I don't care.
I can't find one unless I wait in line for it every weekend where they release it.

Speaker 1 And I'm not doing that. He gave it to me in person and he was a nice guy.

Speaker 1 And he's like, yeah, I just kind of make money this way because my brother works at Target or something like GameStop, whatever it was. I was like, yeah, fair.
I don't care.

Speaker 1 I'm paying the premium for you having gone through the trouble to source these. Like, fine.
Finder's fee of whatever percent, 10%. I don't care.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, you're outsourcing chaos pretty much.

Speaker 3 You're efficient, maybe a little unheroic, but.

Speaker 1 Very unheroic. Correct.
I am not a hero. I am a man who values sleep and peace, and I don't want to get maced because I'm trying to get an Xbox.
I just don't care that much.

Speaker 3 I want to be on your gift list, but. You are.
Hey, I got you those blue blockers. Oh, that's right.
That's right.

Speaker 3 But I want you to fight for a gift for me.

Speaker 1 Red flag. Red flag for anyone who's thinking of dating Jess.
She wants you to fight for her for gifts. Now, God knows what she's going to do in person.
Yes, one of many red flags.

Speaker 3 But for those who can't afford to overpay, the stories of sale shopping desperation, they just go on and on. In 2011, a woman pepper sprayed.

Speaker 3 every shopper around her to score an Xbox that was 20% off.

Speaker 1 There you go. See?

Speaker 3 Maybe that's the one you got. That's the one I got.

Speaker 1 Happy holidays. I brought the mace.
Wonder how much her legal fee. See, this is the thing.
You mace to everyone. You got this thing.
How much of your legal fees, your bail money? I mean, what a moron.

Speaker 1 I know. You'll be lucky if they only cancel your Costco subscription, which is worse than going to jail in most people's opinion.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's something about savings and sales that cancels out logical thinking for some people. I cannot believe how many stories there are of.

Speaker 3 Police finding kids alone in cars in parking lots on Black Friday while their parents rush in to shop for discounts. You know, all kinds of things.

Speaker 1 All right. We talked about that lady who pepper sprayed a crowd for 20% off an Xbox.
Don't do that. Just stay home, keep your dignity, support our sponsors.
It costs a lot less than bail.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 3 Look, the true meaning of Christmas is childhood trauma we already know this i guess i guess the psychology behind it is incredible the adrenaline the crowd mentality the fomo it's the perfect storm of human weakness and honestly marketing genius stores literally engineer the panic limited stock one day only those online pop-ups that say you know seven bought in the last 20 minutes all of that triggers what's called perceived scarcity And it makes people act irrationally, even when the product isn't actually rare.

Speaker 1 I see. And I imagine that starts before people even get to the store because driving on Black Friday is always a nightmare.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Incidents of road rage and fender benders skyrocket every Black Friday as people race to these perceived bargains.

Speaker 3 I couldn't find official statistics, but I'd bet a lot of phones and laptops don't survive Black Friday either after pure rage clicking and swiping still doesn't land the deal.

Speaker 3 Everyone's sleep deprived, maybe hungover and just annoyed at others in traffic, in when they're parking, the crowds. It's intense.

Speaker 1 Pissed if something is out of stock, right? And they end up overpaying on eBay for dumb toys.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been there.
I dated a guy with kids and went to lengths online to score a hatch-amole for his daughter when every store was sold out.

Speaker 3 I'm not proud of how much I overpaid, but when she opened the impossible to get toy, I mean, that little kid's face was priceless.

Speaker 3 You know, thinking about it, I mean, she still better have that thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, she's probably in college by now, but I have to admit, I have no idea what a hatch-a-mole even is.

Speaker 3 Oh, they were these stuffed animals that came inside an oversized egg and you'd put them on the shelf and then they hatched. I mean, they had minimal tech.

Speaker 3 And they were just impossible to get in 2014. It was like the cabbage patch kid mania of the 80s all over again.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess a lot of it comes down to parents wanting to make perfect memories just at any cost. And meanwhile, we're forgetting about the retail workers who have to survive this madness.

Speaker 3 Oh, absolutely. It's not just shoppers behaving badly to each other.

Speaker 3 Employees are treated disrespectfully and retailers see spikes in shoplifting, property destruction, all kinds of consumer misbehavior.

Speaker 3 There are countless stories of otherwise good citizens caught shoplifting just because the lines were too long or they wanted to get to another sale, usually not because they couldn't afford the items.

Speaker 1 It's really unbelievable. And people, you know, they're calling it the holiday spirit, I suppose.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yikes. Oh, people get spirited.

Speaker 3 And it's not just security guards that have to be on high alert. The employees at retailers are often working in nightmare conditions.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's easy to forget that people have to work through this nonsense.

Speaker 3 Right. And for most retail workers, Black Friday is not a holiday.
It's a stress test. More than 4 million Americans work in retail, earning about 16 bucks an hour on average.

Speaker 3 Fewer than 5% are unionized, which means when stores extend their hours or double their crowds, workers just have to keep up.

Speaker 1 Not a great deal for them. Are they paid more for Black Friday? I mean, it's, I guess if it's not a real holiday, there's no holiday pay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. And many describe being understaffed, overworked.
and dealing with customers who are, let's just say, not in the holiday spirit. It's the time of year everyone wants to relax.

Speaker 3 But if you work retail, that's impossible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Retail workers are expected to sacrifice personal time, peace of mind,

Speaker 1 soaring cortisol levels, and personal safety, apparently, for a company that would not sacrifice a dime for them at all.

Speaker 3 Right. And certainly not share in any of the holiday profits.
Right. You know, the psychology of Black Friday for employees is brutal.

Speaker 3 It's long hours, the intense stress, high-pressure customer traffic, marketing expectations, inventory management, add in aggressive or disappointed customers, and it's a recipe for frustration.

Speaker 1 I don't think I could cope with that kind of chaos.

Speaker 3 Me either.

Speaker 1 No way. How do people do that? I really don't know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they get creative. If you can't find an employee during the holidays, it's probably justified.

Speaker 3 Workers are observed to take more breaks, focus on manageable tasks like folding clothes, or create mental distance. There's not much incentive for employees to step up to the madness.

Speaker 3 They just want to survive the day without losing it.

Speaker 1 And companies just kind of throw these employees to the wolves, eh?

Speaker 3 I mean, yeah. I mean, well, to be fair, they do know having plenty of staff helps.
A 2014 study looked at how big crowds and rude customers affect employee behavior. Shocker.

Speaker 3 When a store is overcrowded and everyone's snapping at each other, even the nicest employees turn into jerks.

Speaker 1 Contagious rage. Another reason I stay home.

Speaker 3 Retail workers don't have that option though. To make it worse for employees, Black Friday is what's called a blackout day, meaning you can't request the day off.

Speaker 3 And if you call in and say you can't make it, even with a legit reason, that often means instant termination, especially if you're new or seasonal.

Speaker 1 That is brutal. You're overworked, underpaid, and one flu away from being unemployed.

Speaker 1 And a headline popped up on my feed earlier that said, Target is enforcing a rule that employees have to smile if they are within 10 feet of a customer this holiday season. I don't, is that real?

Speaker 3 How the hell is that enforced? I mean, I'd quit or start drinking. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So does online shopping give brick and mortar stores any break from the chaos or are we just creating new levels of hell?

Speaker 3 A bit of both. Online shopping has reduced some of the chaos, but just because you're stressing out in front of the laptop doesn't keep you from the effects.

Speaker 3 So online customer service agents are verbally abused at a ridiculous level.

Speaker 3 And for the consumer, the ding of the email, those push notifications, the limited time offers, they're the modern Pavlovian dinner bell that you referred to previously.

Speaker 1 Okay, so we've got fake scarcity, temporary joy, exhausted workers, but there's an even darker side with the scams and the fraud, right? You're going to tell us about that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, every year, scammers get more creative.
You'll see fake websites, fake ads, fake order confirmations, all designed to steal your data or your money.

Speaker 1 So I think a lot of people don't really understand exactly how a website can be fake.

Speaker 3 Well, scammers build sites that look identical to big brands. A really famous example is Microsoft.com.
But scammers will change that M in Microsoft to a lowercase R and a lowercase N.

Speaker 3 And when they are next to each other, they very much look like like an M. It's wild.
So unless you're really reading your URL, you can't tell that you're on a different website. It's wild.

Speaker 3 Right, okay. So fonts and similar lettering can be easy to fall for.
Target.com can be confused with target.co.

Speaker 3 So if you're a trusting grandma surfing the web for the hot toy your grandkid wants, you know, you can be easily scammed. Another big one is phishing emails that say your order has shipped.

Speaker 3 Click here to track it. This relies on the chance that you have ordered a bunch of stuff and you will click on the fake tracking link,

Speaker 3 which installs malware and gives access to all your sensitive payment information.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I fell for one recently. I mean, I didn't click on the thing and do, well, I did, but I didn't go the, I didn't give them what they wanted, I should say.
But it was a lawsuit, a fake one.

Speaker 1 It was like, here's your offending content. And then it was like, it's on Facebook.
It's on your Facebook page. I was like, okay.
And then it's like, log into Facebook.

Speaker 1 And I was like, this is a really convincing looking fake secure login window for Facebook. But then you look at the URL, which isn't displayed.

Speaker 1 They have like a fake URL in the graphic that looked like facebook.com.

Speaker 1 But if you look at the title of the window, it was like a bunch of nonsense, you know, and I was like, oh my God, no one's looking at that. Nobody looks at this.
No one's looking at this.

Speaker 1 So you would type in your Facebook credentials and it would be like, you know, not work or something like that. And you give up.
But then you've given your credentials to a bunch of scammers.

Speaker 3 So, oh man, it's really,

Speaker 1 like I'm saying, the scams are really convincing sometimes.

Speaker 1 Like like I've been known to bite on a scam here and there like you figure it out after a few seconds or minutes and I know how easy it is to fall for something I mean people fall for things especially when they're busy I think I mentioned before I wanted a remote for RC card and it was like really expensive and so I found what a really cheap one on a website and I used their pay with PayPal link.

Speaker 1 It was like an eBay pay with PayPal link clicked it and then immediately once I it looked all legit and it was PayPal like I checked and then once it sent it was like here's your receipt receipt from paying like Wang Shing4127 at gmail.com and I, or hotmail.com.

Speaker 1 And I was like, that is not a company. So I reported it immediately.
PayPal immediately said, we've blocked this offending account and given you your money back.

Speaker 1 But I'm thinking, okay, what if you just didn't notice that that was a personal name and not the name of a company? Or like you missed the checkout window because you were looking at your phone.

Speaker 1 You just would never get the device. And then you'd wonder what happened.
If you're busy, you're distracted and or not as savvy as somebody who's really paying attention.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a deadly combination to get scammed.

Speaker 3 And for every person like you who does notice, they've suckered, you know, a hundred other people.

Speaker 1 I guess my point is it's not all a bunch of people who are like, no, I have to pay my IRS taxes with Apple gift cards.

Speaker 1 And you're like, dude, or like, you know, with Steam video game gift cards, because that's the only currency that the IRS accepts.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they're sneakier. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. They're sneakier than that.
They're sneakier than that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's too good to be true social media ads on Instagram or Facebook. They're often counterfeit products or just nothing at all.

Speaker 3 I'll see stuff, you know, those ads come up now and it has the learn more thing at the bottom. They're mostly fake.
Oh, really? Yeah. Plus, gift cards are often resold online with nothing on them.

Speaker 3 So you look like an asshole to whoever you gift them to.

Speaker 1 So what? Do you just don't click anything about orders or shipping? But

Speaker 1 I like to track every moment of my packages. Don't you do that? I mean, absolutely.

Speaker 3 But unless you're trying to get your identity stolen, I would disregard a lot of emails unless you're 100% positive. It's related to a real order.

Speaker 3 So go back to the site and log in and, you know, take those extra steps instead of just clicking a link in an email. Because sometimes they come in saying someone sent you a gift.

Speaker 3 It just plays on the emotions that come up around the holidays of people wanting to feel loved and worthy of gifts.

Speaker 1 I use the shop app from Shopify. Look, they're a sponsor, but they didn't ask me to do this or anything.

Speaker 1 I'm not 100% sure how that app works from the inside, but what I think it does is it seems to dig into packages coming to my address through various carriers and it tracks them with those carriers and then it updates them inside the app.

Speaker 1 So I don't need to divulge sensitive info or bookmark a bunch of tabs. I just log into the shop app and it shows like Amazon's sending you this.
This company's sending you that.

Speaker 1 This other company is sending you that. And it's not just Shopify stores.
It'll track pretty much anything. I even see like publishers.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, you have a package coming from Random House tomorrow. I'm like, oh, I'm going to get a book.
And that might actually protect some people who want to track their items.

Speaker 1 We can link to that in the show notes. It's a really light app, it doesn't bother you for stuff, really.
It just shows you when your packages are coming.

Speaker 1 Sure, when you open it, it's like, hey, add these socks to your cart, you know, fine.

Speaker 1 But it's sort of safer than clicking on a bunch of links in your email because it does all the tracking for you and you don't have to go anywhere.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that is so worth it. I mean, that shop app you use has really strong security measures to keep personal personal information safe.
Yeah. That's the most important thing.

Speaker 3 There's other ones too, like Mercari and whatnot. They implement all kinds of protections from two-step authentication to all kinds of encryption tricks.

Speaker 3 And they help, but the problem is hackers and scam artists are always finding ways around them. So it's like this security.
cat and mouse game.

Speaker 1 Yes. So one thing that's annoying me right now is I ignore Bitcoin scam emails and Bitcoin scam texts and all this other crap.

Speaker 1 But I'm getting calendar invites that are like, hey, Bitcoin transaction, PayPal, something, something.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, okay, no, no, thanks to this invite decline on this invite from rzx1274.whatever nonsense thing dot cx domain. And it's like trying to get you to click on this Bitcoin transaction.

Speaker 1 And it's like, if this wasn't you, click here. And it's like, why are you sending me a calendar invite with this? And it's, it gets around your spam filter because it just goes to your calendar.

Speaker 1 So it's very stupid and irritating. But it blows my mind how good a lot of these scams look now.
There's professional websites that have clean design, brand logos, even customer support numbers.

Speaker 1 They'll get you that way.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they prey on trust and speed. Black Friday is all about acting fast, right? So scammers create urgency.

Speaker 1 And are the products themselves even the same? They have to be, right?

Speaker 3 Well, this is going to bum you out. They call it tiered manufacturing or tiered supply chains.

Speaker 3 Basically, companies make slightly different versions of the same product for different retailers or price points. So it's the same outside, but different inside.

Speaker 3 Like the base might be the same, but components will vary. So sometimes it's cheaper electronics, different engines, or plastic instead of metal.
Stuff you won't notice unless you dig into the specs.

Speaker 3 Think Walmart gets a cheapo version while a deluxe or tier one version goes to a specialty store.

Speaker 1 Great. So it's not just cheap, it's cheaper and your bargain is less than it seems.
That seems so misleading.

Speaker 3 It's totally crazy, but it's how supply chains work. There are layers of suppliers.
So tier ones make finished parts. Tier twos make components for the tier ones.

Speaker 3 Tier threes that supply the raw materials, you know, send it up the ladder. But the farther away from the final manufacturer, the harder it is to monitor quality.

Speaker 1 Do you have a few examples of that? That's crazy. I kind of want to add some of these brands that do this.

Speaker 3 I mean, it's pretty much everyone.

Speaker 3 In plumbing fixtures, you'll see it with Moen, Kohler, Delta.

Speaker 3 The faucet at a big box store might look identical to the one a plumber buys at a supply house, but inside the big box one will have plastic valves instead of brass.

Speaker 3 Sometimes the only giveaway is the tiniest change in the model number, like an R prefix, or that you'll have to call a professional eventually to come out and fix it.

Speaker 1 I see. Yeah, so the warning is, hey, the guts in this are crap.
How's anyone even going to notice that?

Speaker 3 Well, savvy shoppers compare model numbers. They check specs.
They'll even talk to specialty stores if it's a major purchase. So the outside packaging lies less than the supply chain does.

Speaker 3 John Deere is notorious for their mowers at Home Depot or Lowe's being what they call entry-level versions with cheaper engines and parts.

Speaker 3 If you want the commercial grade one, you have to go through a licensed dealer.

Speaker 1 So landscaping has a class structure that's unreal?

Speaker 3 Yeah, pretty much. And major appliance makers like Whirlpool and Maytag create exclusive, quote-unquote, exclusive models for certain retailers, which is usually a cosmetic tweak.

Speaker 3 like one handle or piece is a different color. That prevents price matching in a sneaky way.
And they often downgrade parts to hit a specific price point.

Speaker 3 So, Mattel, the big toy company, they rely on tiered manufacturing for its Christmas profits. So, anything in the electronics department is going to be the worst offender.

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Speaker 1 You know, I've never really noticed this, but you're right.

Speaker 1 I bought, I went to the Apple store and I was like, I need a screen protector because I was doing work on a plane and it was, remember, we did our like penis enhancement episodes and stuff.

Speaker 1 And I was talking with this urologist, and he's like sending me photos and stuff. And the guy next to me at the end of the flight was like, are you a doctor? And I was like, no.

Speaker 1 And it was so awkward because I was like, oh,

Speaker 1 he thought I was like a, you know, doctor looking at things on the plane. And then when I said, no, he's like, oh, so you were just a freaking weird pervert that sat next to me on the flight.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I need one of those little polarized things that they have when you work at like a bank, you know, where you can't see the person's screen. So I go to the Apple store and I buy one.

Speaker 1 And I was like, this is expensive, but like, damn it, you know? And then, so Jen's like, I want one of those. So we ordered one, same brand.

Speaker 1 And this thing arrives and it's like in this crummy little envelope, not a box. And she puts it on and it's, it's thin and sort of flimsy.
And I'm like, wait, what?

Speaker 1 And it was clearly like, this is the Amazon version that we can sell for cheaper to undercut the competition because it's thinner. It doesn't work as well.
The packaging is not as nice.

Speaker 1 And the Apple one was like, yeah, we're going to lay this one on thick. It's going to be nice and feel robust and have a magnet at the top and come in a box.
It was really interesting.

Speaker 1 And it was the same companies,

Speaker 1 basically the same thing. You couldn't get the one that I got at the Apple store on Amazon.
It wasn't for sale.

Speaker 3 That's exactly tiered supply chain. That's exactly how it works and what they're counting on.
You're going to order this one online, so you're going to get a lesser quality.

Speaker 3 The Black Friday specials are often built into the price, and they aren't the standard models. They are that cheaper screen protector.

Speaker 3 So the shell might look the same, but inside are cheaper panels and less advanced, you know, processing chips or whatever.

Speaker 1 No one is studying the package specs that closely. It's so unfair, though.

Speaker 3 I know, but it's really the only way a shopper will know. So always check the exact model number.
If it's identical across all stores, you're not being ripped off.

Speaker 3 If there's even a letter off or an extra number tacked on the end, that's a store-exclusive version and you're paying for cheaper parts. This happens with everything from car parts, blenders, bidets.

Speaker 3 Someone's out there making the budget version just for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the American way, I suppose.

Speaker 3 Yeah, right. And that's why you need to use the internet to your advantage.

Speaker 3 It's easier online to check those those model numbers, read real reviews, and compare specs before you assume you're buying what you want.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of homework for somebody who just wants a new toaster oven or whatever.

Speaker 3 Yeah, right, true. But it's the difference between a real deal and getting duped.
You could just not buy anything and save yourself from all the headaches, but we have to buy stuff.

Speaker 1 But it's not just sketchy pricing and scams, right? There's a whole illusion. with the sales themselves.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3 And here's the secret. A lot of Black Friday sales are are exactly that, illusions.

Speaker 3 Some stores quietly raise prices weeks before the event, then discount them back to the regular price so it looks like a massive bargain.

Speaker 3 So there's tools like Camel Camel Camel, which is an app that tracks the fluctuation of prices on Amazon. So you can see the price history.

Speaker 3 And that's when you realize a lot of those huge discounts are just smoke and mirrors.

Speaker 1 I love that we need surveillance technology to protect us from sales. We save 50% off the fake price they just made up two days ago and they print new price placards.

Speaker 3 And it works because the brain doesn't calculate. It reacts.
You see was $9.99, now $6.99, and your brain fires off dopamine before your logic kicks in. It's more about emotion than money.

Speaker 1 Right. It's not how much you save.
It's how much you feel like you saved. So it's like a little hubris or ego there.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 It's cognitive dissonance in a shopping cart. gratitude and greed back to back, but it's also about belonging, shopping together, feeling part of a national event.

Speaker 3 It's, you know, it's ritualized consumption at this point.

Speaker 1 And now it's online. So you don't even have to put a, you don't even have to put on pants to join the mob.

Speaker 3 Right, right, right. Same frenzy, just digitized.
Instead of trampling each other in a Walmart, it's people screaming at their laptops when the pages. crash at checkout.

Speaker 3 But it doesn't mean in-store madness is just nostalgia. It still happens, just not on the same scale.
It's like less mosh pit in the aisles and more chaotic line dancing or something.

Speaker 3 But, you know, crowds still form for hot items in the stores.

Speaker 1 It's kind of amazing to me, honestly, that people still do in-person shopping or like lining up for a hot item. It's like, dude, just buy it online.
I don't get it. I can't relate.
I know.

Speaker 3 There's a sneaker store near me that I swear it's like once a month. There's a line around the block.
It's wild. Yeah.
But retailers depend on it.

Speaker 3 I mean, we spend billions in a very short window and stores need that yearly boost to justify keeping those doors open.

Speaker 3 So yeah, stores design the event to get you in because Black Friday and the days around it can make or break a store's entire year. They need that frenzy.
It's part of the business model.

Speaker 3 So some stores implement precautions now by organizing crowds at entrances and in line, but it still gets wild.

Speaker 1 So they need us to act like maniacs. Are there actually good deals? Is any of this worth it? Or are we just getting played?

Speaker 3 Mostly played.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's what I thought. People love saying, well, I got this at 60% off.
And then they show their receipt or whatever. But not everyone is buying into this madness, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, not everyone. My favorite Black Friday stunts are always from the makers of Cards Against Humanity.
Do you know that game?

Speaker 1 Yes, it's a fun party card game.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's so fun. It is.
So every Black Friday, they raise the prices, raise the prices of their products online, and people still buy it. And then they take the profits and donate it to charity.

Speaker 3 So they started this as a way to create awareness for this dark hole consumerism is creating in our souls. And I mean this literally.

Speaker 1 Wait, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 So in 2016, they came up with the holiday hole. They literally dug a hole in the ground and told people, we'll keep digging as long as you keep sending money.

Speaker 3 And they raised over $100,000 on Black Friday to dig nothing.

Speaker 1 That is not a scam. I don't know what that is.
Is that performance art, I guess?

Speaker 3 I mean, it was satire, but it was done to prove a point. Their tagline for it was, when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
And they were right.

Speaker 3 You know, people will spend money for the experience of spending money. And it was a perfect metaphor for the void of consumerism that just goes nuts on Black Friday.

Speaker 3 So Cards Against Humanity pulls stunts like this every Black Friday. One One year, they actually sold nothing for $5.

Speaker 3 It was advertised as nothing. And they made $70,000 off people who knew they were buying nothing.

Speaker 3 Another year, they sold literal bull feces to 30,000 people, bringing in 180 grand.

Speaker 1 Wow, what a world. Is Black Friday just an American thing or is it global? Actually, I don't even know.
Yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 3 The madness has been exported. Black Friday has spread to more than half the world's countries.
Europe, all in. The UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and Latin America too.

Speaker 3 It's a thing in Argentina, Colombia, Brazil, even parts of Africa and the Middle East have their own versions. In some places, it's called White Friday or Blessed Friday.

Speaker 1 That is incredible. Other countries watched Americans brawling over big screens and thought, like, we need that too.
We need to bring that over here.

Speaker 3 Australia and New Zealand got on board around 2013. They kind of were holdouts.
And now it's one of their biggest shopping days. It's just this homogenization of the whole world.

Speaker 1 So the chaos is international. We've successfully globalized impulsive spending.
Fantastic.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Capitalism is the world's love language, I guess.

Speaker 1 Santa must be sighing. Some places and people must not buy into this madness, though, right? I mean, this can't be a thing everywhere.

Speaker 3 Right. I mean, Cards Against Humanity has fun with it.
But there is an anti-Black Friday campaign called Buy Nothing Day. They encourage people to take a pause on spending.
This is my kind of holiday.

Speaker 3 I fast on Thanksgiving and I don't spend a penny the next day.

Speaker 1 Buy Nothing Day.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. It started back in the 90s as anti-Black Friday protest.

Speaker 3 So instead of shopping, people are encouraged to reflect on their habits, fix things they already own, donate, or just chill and not participate.

Speaker 1 Do people get into it? I mean, that sounds like a hard sell.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
I mean, there's also creative protests like zombie walks, where people dress up and march through malls and stores to highlight consumerist mindlessness.

Speaker 3 They promote not buying anything for 24 hours to raise awareness about environmental and ethical consequences of overconsumption. Okay, I kind of like that.

Speaker 1 A horde of undead moaning, you know, duels, dudes. It looks like a flash mob for the thriller video, but then they're just getting in your way while you're trying to get to the Lego store.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's so silly. But message received, right? Buying less could actually make us happier and less stressed.

Speaker 3 So there are buy nothing groups all over the world and members gift and request everything from furniture to tools to food.

Speaker 3 Like they actually have an app similar to other ones like OfferUp, if you've ever used that. And they're just sort of community swapping types of things.

Speaker 1 Is that more performance art or capitalism eating itself? I can't tell which one it is.

Speaker 3 Maybe a little of both, I guess. But it's overwhelming now that Black Friday has become Black November, especially when we see ads.
I saw one the other day. Black Friday starts Wednesday.

Speaker 1 Yeah, pretty sure that's just called Wednesday. But if spreading it out keeps people from getting maced at Circuit City or whatever, I mean, fine by me.

Speaker 1 So, what's your advice for people who do want to shop without getting scammed or trampled to death?

Speaker 3 First, stick to reputable retailers. If you're online, look for the HTTPS and the lock icon, you know, in the URL bar.
Use credit cards, not debit, for better fraud protection.

Speaker 3 And don't fall for wild discounts or sketchy links. I mean, that's good advice every day, not just during Black Friday.
Focus on genuinely needed items.

Speaker 3 You know, Black Friday is a great time to save on items you are already planning to buy for yourself or as holiday gifts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Jen does this. She saves things in a list for Prime Day or Black Friday and then just goes to to town online and done.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, that's the smart way to do it. And remember those Doorbuster items or special store-only models are sometimes cheaper for a reason.

Speaker 3 So always compare model numbers and reviews before hitting buy. The hype can make you buy stuff that you don't need and that can negate any savings you might have made.
So just be mindful.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So be paranoid, be boring, and you might actually survive the holidays.

Speaker 3 Pretty much. But if the holidays feel like something you have to survive, you should evaluate what and how you're celebrating.

Speaker 3 I mean, the truth is these sales are designed to serve corporations, not to spread savings joy.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Jessica, for saving us from crazy consumer bullies, clever opportunistic retailers, hackers, and maybe even ourselves. And thank you all for listening.

Speaker 1 Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

Speaker 1 I'm at Jordan Harbinger. We are having a Black Friday sale.
No, I don't think we are, but I bet a lot of our sponsors are, actually. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

Speaker 1 You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stacks, Between the Lines, and Where Shadows Linger.
We'll link to those in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1 This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sedlauskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.
Our advice and opinions are our own.

Speaker 1 And yes, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Also, of course, we try to get these as right as we can.
Not everything is gospel, even if it is fact-checked.

Speaker 1 So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well-being. Remember, we rise by lifting others.
Share the show with those you love.

Speaker 1 And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today.

Speaker 1 In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 We worry about secret societies online, but the real danger may be hiding in trusted institutions that we see every day.

Speaker 6 I'm a financial reporter by background. I basically fell into this rabbit hole.
And so I began to dig.

Speaker 6 And this Spanish priest called Jose Maria Escriva dreamed up this kind of group which called itself El Pusde, which is Latin for the work of God.

Speaker 6 He saw his followers as part of this hidden militia that would infiltrate society and use their positions there to basically push society in the right direction.

Speaker 6 And he literally tasks them with infiltrating government, business, the world of education, becoming journalists, and kind of using their positions there to be this guerrilla reactionary force.

Speaker 6 The thing that makes this so much worse is that this is an organization which has been legitimized by the Catholic Church. It has the stamp of approval from the Pope, from the Vatican.

Speaker 6 The way that Opus Day operates is that it's using scripture to push back on anything progressive and for anything kind of left-leaning and it's a misuse of religion, really.

Speaker 6 I think the vast majority of Opus Day members, they don't have a clue about this human trafficking and the way that you know certain members are being drugged, labor trafficking, I mean grooming of children, all kinds of kind of financial fraud and spiritual fraud as well.

Speaker 6 All of these abuses going on, I think they would be absolutely horrified to find out what is going on inside the organization. They have thousands of members.

Speaker 6 The network runs far and wide, assets in the billions. Anyone that isn't part of Opus Day is an enemy of Christ.

Speaker 1 Gareth Gore uncovers how Opus Day built a global empire of secrecy and why dismantling it might be the fight of our time. Check it out on episode 1170 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

Speaker 1 This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. You've probably heard of Vital Proteins.
They're the number one brand of collagen peptides in the U.S.

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Speaker 1 And I don't know what that is or if that's even how you say it, but you're supposed to avoid that.

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Speaker 1 Get 20% off by going to vitalproteins.com and entering promo code Jordan at checkout. This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast.

Speaker 1 You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation?

Speaker 1 Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation.

Speaker 1 It's called the Conspirituality Podcast.

Speaker 1 The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

Speaker 1 An An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening.

Speaker 1 It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to the show, you know I'm all about that.

Speaker 1 From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspirituality podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Speaker 1 Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.