#0013 Elon Musk

Oyerman, 23?

What micro?

Expera vuela salam

aquí que nitos gugando, but cor el sotano.

Oya wé eson 23 de agua.

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On this episode, we cover the Joe Rogan Experience number 2281 with guest Elon Musk.

No Rogan experience starts now.

Welcome back to the show.

This is a show where two podcasters with no previous Rogan experience get to know Joe Rogan.

It's the show for those who are curious about Joe Rogan, his guests, and their claims, as well as for anyone who wants to understand Joe's ever-growing media influence.

I'm Cecil Cicarello, and I'm joined by Michael Marshall.

And today,

we're going to be covering Joe's February 2025 interview with Elon Musk.

Hey, Marsh, how did Joe introduce Elon in the show notes?

Yeah, so according to Joe, Elon Musk is a business magnate and senior advisor to President Donald Trump.

His portfolio of businesses include Tesla Inc., SpaceX, Mural Inc., X, and many others.

Is there anything else we should know about?

You know what?

No, I don't think so.

Like, Elon Musk, for the last few years, has basically been the main character on the internet.

And his name and his deeds and his personal achievements and his all-round infallible genius come up on Joe's show.

pretty much every single week.

So I think he needs no further context at this point.

You know what?

Yeah, this is the first time that's happened, but it is absolutely accurate.

All right.

What exactly did they talk about on Joe's show this time?

So they talked about Doge and its cuts.

They talked about social security fraud, Grok's ability to diagnose medical issues, DEI in the FAA, FEMA, illegal immigration, Nazi salutes, meme coins, heat shields for rockets, and how Elon's super cool AI can swear and everything.

What they didn't talk about, notably, is Joe's recent curiosity as to what drives billionaires to keep acquiring more and more money and possessions, long past the point where they have more than they'll ever need.

He was super curious about that when he spoke to Kai Dickens the day before this interview, as we cleared last week.

But by the time he spoke to the richest man in the world, somehow his curiosity on that had faded.

Someone had held that men in black thing up to his eyes and they just flashed him.

And so he completely forgot about that guy.

Or maybe he just got a really good answer that he didn't need to share with us no that's fine aston answered yeah i'm good yeah maybe he asked it before he started recording we have no idea all right before we get to our main event we want to say thanks to our area 51 all access past patrons stone banana laura williams not that one the other one Definitely not an AI overlord, 11 Gruthius.

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You'll be feasting today, Chonky Cat.

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Fred R.

Gruthius and Martin Fidel.

They subscribe to patreon.com slash no rogan, and you can too.

All patrons get early access to episodes and a special patron bonus every single week.

And this week, we're going to be covering the part of the show where two grown adults giggle like toddlers because an AI was programmed to say a few swears.

Yes, yeah, they do.

Check it out on patreon.com/slash no rogan.

But now for our main event,

Huge thank you this week to the Veteran Voice the Podcast.

That was Joe Neal announcing our main event.

Remember, you too can be on the show by sending us a recording of you giving us your best rendition of It's Time.

Send that to no RoganPod at gmail.com.

That's one word.

K-N-O-W.

And as well as how you'd like to be credited.

And we'll credit you on the show.

I will, word of warning, the clip itself is 11 seconds.

So if you send me something that is longer than that, I will not be able to use it.

I'm just letting you know, I think some of you people are amazing and creative and it's unbelievable.

And I absolutely express all my thanks to everyone who sent stuff in, but I literally cannot use anything longer than 11 seconds.

So many rules, Cecil.

Don't whisper.

Don't go too long.

There's only two rules, Marsh.

Stop making this complicated.

There's only two rules.

The first one is be loud.

The second one is be short.

Be brief, be loud.

Those would be the two rules.

I may add a third.

We'll see.

Yeah, like

your cohort and cognitive dissonance.

We want you loud and short.

Loud and short.

Tom does listen to this show on occasion.

And when he sees you next, he's going to hug you till you die.

I love you, Tom.

It was a joke.

I'm sorry.

So I want to point out before we get into our discussion that one,

there are so many pauses in this conversation that I did a quick truncate on this yesterday, three hour and 11 minute show, and it wound up cutting it down to two hours and 50 minutes.

So there's over 20 minutes of pauses in this.

So understand that these clips are edited.

If you were to listen to this in the actual form, it is much longer and drawn out.

And Elon is spending a lot more time before, in between words, thinking about what he's going to say.

But I've cut all those pauses out.

So it may sound different if you listen to it.

We didn't cut any words or rearrange anything.

I'm just letting you know that I cut some of the pauses out.

So just so you know the clips have been altered slightly and i also sped them up a little bit because they talk very slow so yeah so i just imagine that each one of these clips has an extra 10 of silence in between individual words and you kind of on the because it is literally 10 of the show is pauses yeah all right for the main event this time we're actually going to be doing

the alleged waste, fraud, and corruption that the new administration, especially Elon, is finding in the government.

So that's the main event segment for this time.

And we're going to start

with a clip about a discussion of NGOs.

Like, George Soros was really good at this.

Like, he really, George Soros is like a system hacker.

Like, he figured out how to hack the system.

He's a genius at arbitrage.

I mean, these days, he's he's pretty old, but a genius at arbitrage.

So, he figured out that you could leverage a small amount of money to create a non-profit,

then lobby the politicians to send a ton of money to that non-profit so you can take what might be

a $10 million donation to a non-profit to create a non-profit and leverage that into a billion-dollar

NGO.

A nonprofit is a weird word.

It's just a non-governmental organization.

And then the government continues to fund that every year.

And it will have a nice sounding name, like the Institute for Peace or something like that.

But really, it's a graph machine.

Aaron Trevor Bowie.

And what are the requirements with that money?

What do they have to do?

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So they just get grants, and the government just assumes that they're doing good work.

Let's talk about what he's saying here, especially at the end when they say you can basically just ask the government for money as one of these NGOs and there's no requirements.

You just get the money.

That is a lie.

Okay.

That is an outright lie.

You have to submit for funding a concept paper, which has all the details of the organization, all the contact info, what you're going to do, objectives, methods of approach, anticipated results, budget, references to previous work, et cetera.

After the application's accepted, then they go to the next round, and you have to give more detailed answers and elaborate on the program goals, objectives, give a milestone, results, timeline.

You have to do monitoring and evaluation plan, a management plan, a business cost section.

Then on the next stage, it just gets evaluated.

Then it goes to the award consideration stage where they don't actually guarantee the money.

They just do a risk assessment and sometimes they give it to you.

And I couldn't find that information out on the regular web.

I had to look on archive.

org because this the regular site has been torn down from the internet.

So you can't find that.

But I linked the PDF to archive.org in our show notes so you could take a look and see how how diligently they look for these kinds of things and whether or not they're going to give this sort of money out yeah exactly and all that information has been scrubbed from the internet in the name of efficiency like that's what the name of

that time yeah yeah in the name of efficiency we can't know so when joe asked the question well they just ask for it and they just get in it he's like yeah absolutely that's literally not true also you can just know that that's not true because there's a profession in the United States called Grant Writer.

We do this thing where people who go to very often go to like get an English degree, when they get out of school, sometimes they want to find work as a writer.

Grant writing is a great way for a lot of people to get, you know, start learning how to write.

And they, they literally, now some of these grants aren't federal grants.

They happen to be grants from like, you know, charities and associations and maybe the state, et cetera.

But there are people who do federal grant writing.

Are we saying that that's sort of some sort of weird conspiracy where those people just go to work and stare at a computer all day and don't do anything?

Like, what are you talking about?

They're a literal, it's a literal job called Grant Writer.

They're making you believe that this sort of money is just a, you walk in and you just say, I want the money and you know somebody and they say, yeah, give them that money.

And that's not happening.

They are lying you.

And I think it's interesting that he starts by talking about George Soros, because I don't know what the theory is meant to be on George Soros here, because George Soros is often brought up, including by people on Rogan, as like a sinister billionaire who's like funding progressive politics through dark money contributions in order to like warp the political landscape in favor of the left.

But here, Elon seems to be saying he's like getting rich off the U.S.

government by spending a small amount of money to get a lot of money back.

So is it George Soros like pouring his money in, or is George George Soros taking loads of money out of the government?

Decide which bad guy George Soros is for you here.

And there's a few of the things that Elon says that I picked up that I thought were interesting.

He says, non-profit is a weird word.

It's just a non-governmental organization, an NGO.

I don't think non-profit at all is that weird, unless you can't imagine working for something that isn't aiming to turn a profit, which may well be the case here.

I don't know.

Like, I work for a non-profit, a charity in the UK.

It's a non-profit.

A non-profit is just an organization that, outside of salaries, can't make any profits.

So there's no disbursements to shareholders.

There's no dividends.

There's nothing like that.

You pay the staff salaries and then any money that you have otherwise has to be spent on furthering the goals.

But an NGO is a a type of non-profit, but he's sort of saying that it's synonymous.

And that's a bit weird.

You wouldn't describe all non-profits as NGOs.

Like your local food bank, your local domestic violence shelter, those are non-profits.

It'd be weird to describe your food bank as an NGO.

But Elon wants you to think shady influence when you hear NGO.

And he also wants you to think that when you hear non-profit now as well.

And he says, you know, and then once you've set it up, the government continues to fund that every year.

And he makes it sound like the government forgets that it's funding these non-profits.

And that obviously isn't true.

But interestingly, it also completely conflicts with what we learned from Mike Benz on Joel Shaw recently, where Mike Benz was saying that these organizations, they all have to submit work plans to the USAID, you know, detailed work plans in order to get any funding.

He said that that was there to prove that USAID is actually in control of all these NGOs, right down, he said, who they can hire and fire.

So

Elon wants to say these things, USAID's totally forgetful as to how it spends its money.

Mike Benz was saying it micromanages everything, is responsible for everything, and everything bad that happens is its fault.

And Joe is just nodding to both of these completely diamond

options.

That's amazing.

I totally missed that when I was listening to this, but you're right.

Mike Benz does say that.

He says that's literally how they control him.

They're micromanaging these NGOs.

Now, here, Joe asks how they decide to keep sending government funding to these legitimate projects.

Marsh alluded to this a few minutes ago.

So is there a way to audit all this stuff and find out, oh, these people are actually just sending food to poor people.

These people are actually just helping people with water in third world countries.

There's a way to do that and keep funding those.

Yeah.

I mean, we have continued to fund things that appear to be legitimate, even with the flimsiest, if there's even the flimsiest excuse.

Like I just say, like, send me a picture of the thing.

Like, you could literally have AI generate the picture.

But if you're not even willing to try to trick me,

then we're not going to send the money.

Okay.

This is another blatant lie.

It's this whole show felt like a lot of gaslighting where they're just trying to say that things are true and they are absolutely false.

There's an AP article, a link with 20 projects cut by Doge.

This was just before he went on this show.

So after the first round of cuts.

So this is this is at after they had a chance to sort of dig in and look at some of these cuts.

I'm just going to read a few of these.

Haiti, 13,000 people have lost access to nutritional support according to Action Against Hunger.

These cuts will affect at least 550,000 people that were receiving aid.

In Syria, aid programs for some 2.5 million people in the country's northeast stopped providing services, according to U.N.

Secretary General.

Also, in the north, a dozen health clinics, including the main referrals hospital of the area, have shut down, said Doctors Without Borders.

In Ethiopia, food assistance stopped for more than 1 million people, according to a risk management commission.

The Ministry of Health was also forced to terminate the contract of 5,000 workers across the country, focused on HIV and malaria prevention, vaccinations, and helping vulnerable women deal with the trauma of war.

So all the things that Joe just mentioned, they cut.

Yeah, exactly.

That's the downstream effects of what Elon Musk is doing here.

And bearing in mind, you're talking about Syria there.

Maybe there's still a good reason that America might want to be doing work in Syria to have the Syrians see the Americans as a good force, given that

the area is otherwise going to fall to ISIS, who don't like America.

So like there's still that soft power influence.

And the thing is, either Elon Musk is completely lying here, or he could genuinely have no idea.

And I honestly think it could be either of those things.

Because I think it is possible that his crack team of avowed eugenicists didn't come to him with any evidence in favor of the programs that were being cut because they were either too inept or too malevolent to do so.

And that's just as possible as him lying here.

But either way, the closing of every one of those programs and the harm that you've listed that it's doing to all those people, it's squarely on Elon Musk whether he knows he's lying here or whether he's been lied to by his inept or malevolent workers.

Here they're going to talk about some of the restrictions that Elon had when deciding to keep or stop funding some of these grants.

So, what restrictions were put on?

There was

something set aside, like medicine and

what was set aside that there was

a work for like Ebola prevention.

Actually, I don't even know if this work is even effective.

It may or may not be.

Like, it could be the kind of thing where you sort of fund Ebola prevention, but it turns out that actually you're funding a lab that develops new Ebola

recipes or something, you know.

Yeah.

And they claim it's Ebola prevention, but it's actually Ebola creation.

So, some of these things, I don't know.

I mean, just

but it just seems like

we shouldn't be sending taxpayer money to dubious enterprises overseas.

Right.

Yeah.

So, first of all, Ebola prevention wasn't set aside.

He actually admitted that they cut it and then claims they instantly restored it.

He's changed that story now and saying it was always set aside.

But his initial story was we cut it and then we restored it.

But if he did cut and restore it, that might not actually, the restoration may not actually be the case.

There was a story here

from NPR that says US support has not been fully restored.

So Dr.

Craig Spencer, who's an emergency physician and professor at Brown University School of Public Health, who's worked on Ebola for more than a decade and responded to the Ebola outbreaks in Africa, said he disagrees fully, completely, wholly that they recognized the mistake and put it back.

He says he's in regular contact with officials from the U.S.

Center for Disease Control and Prevention who work on Ebola as well as physicians on the ground in Uganda, where an outbreak was declared on January the 30th with nine confirmed cases and one death of a nurse so far.

And as of early February, the U.S.

wasn't providing funding to support testing and port screenings in Uganda because of Trump's freeze on almost all U.S.

foreign assistance.

So did they restore it?

Not according to the people who were actually working on the ground.

I just want to point out the language that he uses when he talks about it.

I don't know if it's good.

I don't know if it's bad.

I don't know.

I don't know what kind of work they were doing.

Maybe you shouldn't be the one who decides that the spigot goes off then.

Maybe we shouldn't put you in charge if you have no idea what they're doing and whether or not it's effective.

Maybe we should put somebody in charge who cares about those details.

Yeah, exactly.

He tries to actually find out.

I mean, he says it could be the kind of thing where you sort of fund Ebola prevention, but it turns out you're funding a lab that develops new Ebola recipes.

Like what he's doing here is as stupid as the language is,

he's alluding to the idea of gain of function research, which was, and the idea, which some people wrongly blamed for the development of COVID-19.

People saying, oh, COVID-19 escaped from a lab.

There's no good proof of that.

I know there's still a lot of people who believe that's true.

I think the FBI has said that they think it's most likely to be true, but there's still no good evidence that it escaped from a lab or that it was from gain of function research.

But we know that Joe believes it.

And apparently, so does Elon, because he's bringing up, he's alluding to the gain of function research here when it comes to Ebola.

Now, nobody is suggesting there's anybody out there trying to cook up new Ebola recipes in a lab.

He's just trying to justify why it's totally fine, actually, that the money was turned off.

But the fact that he has so little knowledge about what it was even being funded here doesn't give me any confidence that he's right when he says they restored the funding, especially when people who are working there say otherwise.

From that same NPR article, Jeremy Kanindik, who oversaw USAID's response to the 2014 Ebola outbreak, is now the president of Refugees International.

And he used to lead the Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance at USAID, which deployed on the ground in disasters areas for like Ebola.

And he said, the whole disaster response capability at USAID no longer exists.

All those people are gone.

The operations centers that they worked out of are shut down.

They can't even access the Ronald Reagan building where those operations centers sit.

The lease has been handed over to customs and border protection.

So again, people who work in this area and know this area inside out are saying there is no restoration.

This capability is completely lost and people are essentially on their own when it comes to fighting Ebola.

This next piece is where they bring up the supposed errors in the social security database.

It's just bizarre to me that some people aren't willing to look at it correctly.

They're not willing to see how much chaos this is, how much waste and fraud there is,

how much can be trimmed.

Just because people have jobs doing bullshit doesn't mean your tax dollar should pay for this bullshit.

Yes.

We found just with a basic search of the Social Security database that there were 20 million dead people marked as alive.

But were they getting money?

Some of them are getting money.

What percentage of them?

It isn't clear.

We're actually trying to run this group.

I was trying to get get an answer right before the show.

What it looks like is that most of the fraud is not coming from Social Security payments directly, but because they are marked as alive in the Social Security database, that they can then get disability, unemployment,

sort of fake medical payments, and other things because they're marked as alive in the Social Security database.

So it looks like

the fraud is a bank shot, essentially.

They bank shot into Social Security,

they just do an are you alive check and then get fraudulent payments from every other part of the government.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So are there really 20 million people, dead people listed in the Social Security database?

Well, according to ABC News, yes, there likely is, but this isn't something new that Elon Musk has found.

And it's not a sign of massive amounts of waste either.

So according to ABC, the government has known the system is flawed in this way for years, according to audits.

A 2023 Inspector General's report found 19 million people born before 1920 who do not have a death information in the record.

The SSA decided not to address discrepancies because of how much it would cost to fix, so upwards of $9 million to fix, and the limited benefit it would have on the agency, the report noted.

So yeah, the numbers, 19, 20 million are about right, but they're not huge numbers in terms of fraud.

This isn't something new that Elon's found out.

This was known about and decided it wasn't worth fixing because the amount of money you'd spend fixing it wasn't worth what you'd save.

That's really interesting.

Also, if it's a database, it feels like these numbers should be pretty easy to do.

It almost feels like he's kind of purposely obfuscating how much actual fraud is happening.

Yeah, exactly.

Like the whole point here is that while those old accounts are still in the system, if they're not being used for anything, the cost of actually going through to add the death records that would tidy them up and actually find the death record to tidy every one of those up wouldn't be worth it unless a department came along who are experts in government efficiency who wanted to donate the time to doing that death record cleanup, which would actually be pretty useful.

But according to AFP, there is clear evidence that it's not being used for SS fraud, these for Social Security fraud, these dead accounts.

Quote, official data on the SSA's website shows that fewer than 68.5 million people were receiving retirement, survivor, or disability benefits at the end of 2024.

Among retired workers aged 99 and up, 89,106 were collecting payments.

Jared Walczak, who's the vice president of the tax foundation, said Musk's numbers do not match the known cost of Social Security.

He said, if the table was accurate, Social Security would cost $1 trillion per year more than it actually does.

So if Elon Musk is telling the truth, Social Security is so much higher than it actually is.

And he's not telling the truth.

It's wrong.

And Joe said, you know, are people just not willing to look at it correctly?

Well, Joe, people are looking at it correctly.

It's just that those people don't include Elon Musk and his fans.

How true, right?

Yeah.

And it was interesting in the middle there.

Joe, to his credit, does ask for details.

You know, are these people getting money?

What percentage of them are getting money?

Those are good questions.

And Elon clearly doesn't have that answer because the answer is obviously going going to be negligible.

It's barely any amount of fraud in there.

So instead, because he's been fact-checked, Elon's now claiming that the social security numbers are being used to claim other benefits.

He says like a bank shot, like you get the social security fake number and then you use it to claim other stuff.

But he didn't provide any evidence of any of that.

He's just alleging it.

And why should we believe him, especially when he's already been wrong on this particular specific issue?

And I don't know.

Where would the evidence be for those fraudulent claims?

He's saying if you've got a fake, you've got the social security number of a dead person and then you're not using it to claim social security, you're using it to claim like disability or unemployment.

I don't know what the American system, when I did a quick look into it, it looked like those would also be in the Social Security Agency's records.

They should be, yeah.

Yeah.

So like the ones that he spent weeks going through, but so far has been unable to provide any evidence of strong fraud from, that's where the evidence would be for his other claim, this bank shot claim he's come up with.

Yeah.

And it took it took me and I know it took you probably a few seconds to find articles that completely refute this entire premise that he brings to Joe's show.

He is again, this whole show, like I suggest, there's a lot of lying.

This is another piece of that.

All right, so Elon in this clip is explaining how he is showing his work for his complex math problem of fixing United States spending.

If people want to know what Doge is cutting, and I want to be clear, like these are cuts that Doge recommends to the department.

And usually these recommendations are followed, but

these are recommendations that are then confirmed by the department.

You can see line by line what Doge has done at Doge.gov.

So whatever we do, we put on Doge.gov so you can see everything that is being done.

And there's a tracker that shows

how much money has been saved.

Yeah.

And you can look at each line item.

And

a bunch of these sort of far-left shows will say, like, oh, it's a constitutional crisis, blah, blah, blah.

But what they won't do is point out which payments are wrong.

Right.

So my challenge to them is point out which payments are wrong.

Yeah.

Go through it.

Which of these sort of way/slash-fraud things are wrong?

Which line?

Explain that line to the public.

They won't be able to.

So, have you actually been on the website that he mentions here?

The Doge.

I did take a look at it briefly, but I couldn't really find what he was mentioning.

Yeah, so as of recording right now, looking at it under grants, you'll see like there's the sections for savings.

You've got the savings section, there's a section for contracts.

Under that, there's a section for grants, and there's huge numbers of savings in there for grants.

And if you scroll down, you'll see loads of grants for the Department of Education, loads of grants from loads of grants from USAID.

I spotted a grant from USAID marked down as January 24th for $2,365,702.

And I thought, okay, I'm going to go through line by line and check this.

I clicked on it.

First thing, when I clicked on it, it made the site completely crash and freeze.

And it was unusable for 30 seconds.

It brought up weird scroll bars everywhere.

Nothing on it worked.

None of the click-through worked.

So not ideal, not very efficient.

I refreshed it.

It took like 30 seconds to reload the entire page.

But when I clicked it this time, a pop-up box appeared that said savings $1.3 million, total contract $2.365 million.

And then a button marked clause.

And that was the entire information on the grant from USAID.

I have no idea what that is.

Was there no other writing?

Nothing else.

Nothing else.

Just one white box that says how much the total contract was and how much they say the savings was.

And the savings is impressively round.

So, like, clearly on that

sharing,

they spent the $702 correctly.

They didn't say of that.

They saved exactly $1.3000 million.

But like, how are we supposed to line by line check this?

We don't know what this was a grant for.

We don't know what the money was being spent on.

We don't know how they saved it.

We know nothing.

We've got two figures, and that's it.

So this is their idea of transparency.

That's genuinely embarrassing to look at.

It is.

And there is another section which has other contracts that when you click it will have a link through to the actual contractor or the awarding on the federal database.

So there is another section on there there which has a different type of spending and it does do that.

But a large number of the savings are from these grants and it gives nothing but this.

But I did at least notice that they saved $129,000 on subscriptions to Financial Times.

So it sort of feels like they tried to hire the Rocket Guy and all they got was Rocket Money just to try and cancel subscriptions they weren't using.

Rocket Money isn't actually sponsoring the show.

We just want to point out.

It is not sponsoring the show.

I don't even know if it's a service that is eligible in the UK.

I've never used it.

If you ever hear me talking about using it in an ad, that is not true.

That's amazing.

However, some journalists have been doing the line-by-line that Musk suggests, like The Guardian, for example, did do that.

It's a quote from one of their articles that's linked in the show notes.

Concerns about Musk's work have been prompted by Doge claims of identifying $55 billion in wasteful federal spending, a large chunk of which has been wildly exaggerated.

Exhibit A, one Doge document boasted of cutting $8 billion program that turned out to be closer to $8 million, according to multiple news reports.

Yeah, and it turns out that $8 million was a credit line to ICE or immigration's customs and enforcement.

So they might have actually never used it.

Also, they listed on this website one cut of $650 million

three separate times.

It was the same cut.

They listed it three times.

The site also continues to list $55 billion in total estimated savings, the $8.5 billion alleged contract savings, and another 46.5 billion with no specifically documented source.

They just list it as like, hey, there was a, and now this, this is as of a PBS article that I found.

So it might be that they changed it since then.

But at the time of the writing of that article,

it was listed as if it were a savings and there's nothing actually attached to it.

Well, I think that's the grants.

I think some of that as well is going to be some of it's going to be in the same style as the grants.

Yeah.

So when he says, point out the payments that are wrong, people have done this in articles.

And we will link two of them very specifically to this, to this show notes.

So when he says, go ahead and point it out, people have.

So I don't, like, again, he's, he's sort of like, go ahead and hit me.

And somebody knocks him out.

Yes.

And then he continues to wake up and say, go ahead, take your best shot.

Yeah.

And these articles, some of these articles were published before this interview took place because as soon as they started doing their cuts, journalists started looking line by line through what was going on which makes it such a shame that joe doesn't have jamie pull that up real quick because there's a lot of evidence out there that they could go to but joe doesn't ask doesn't think to get jamie to fact check any of this if jamie went on google for two seconds he'd find lots of evidence to count what elon's saying here there's also counting things as cuts that are just vendors that have negotiated with the united states to do future possible work with the government there's a link i'll i'll link in the show notes but here's a quote from it the agreements are known as blanket purchase agreements or BPAs, working more like a catalog of things the government might buy than a placed order.

But alongside actual orders for goods and services on Doge's wall of savings, they create a wildly exaggerated and false impression of government spending.

End quote.

And that makes sense because that kind of agreement is the kind of thing that you do if you want to maximize efficiency.

You want to buy something in the future, but you don't want to have to go through the rigorous purchasing process at the time that you need to get the thing, especially if it's something you need quite urgently.

So you will agree up front with a supplier.

If I ever need one of them, let's get all the purchasing set up so that I can just hit go on that and immediately get it.

That is efficiency, and that is what Doge is killing.

That is the efficiency Doge is actually removing from the system.

Now we're going to shift.

our discussion here.

Elon and Joe are going to have a conversation about the access to the social security database itself.

It's also this interesting narrative that you shouldn't have access to this Social Security information as if no one's had access to it before, as if the Biden administration in 2023 had there was like 53 people, some of them were students, that had access to all this stuff.

Yeah.

As it is, there are tens of thousands of federal employees that have access already to the system.

Anyone from Doge has to go through the same vetting process that

those federal employees went through.

So there's not like some unvetted random situation.

If, for example, there's a security clearance needed, the Doge person has to have that same security clearance.

So there's no reduction in security.

But, I mean, obviously,

vast numbers of social security numbers have leaked onto the Internet.

People have hacked the government systems multiple times.

Vast amounts of public information has been hacked and dumped onto the Internet.

So, I mean, there's a guy at the IRS that leaked half a million tax returns just a few years ago.

Yeah, the fact that there have been other security issues in the past doesn't mean you should invite more.

That's completely completely meaningless.

That's non-sequitur to what we're saying here.

Yeah, absolutely.

But he's saying that, you know, Biden's administration had access to all this kind of thing.

Those Biden workers in that administration didn't have the huge conflict of interest that Elon Musk clearly has.

It Musk's company was recently being investigated by the FAA over these SpaceX explosions.

The FAA had grounded them and fined them and things.

All those investigation things, those have been dropped.

And instead, SpaceX has now been granted a huge contract to upgrade the FAA's systems since Musk has come come in.

So that conflict of interest is one of the things that make it clear that Musk himself should not be involved in deciding where federal money gets spent or not.

And he says about the Doge workers all being just as vetted as the federal employees.

That simply isn't true.

There's lots of reporting that show that isn't true.

But also bear in mind that they were so well vetted that an avowed self-described eugenicist was hired and then sacked and then rehired and is still, as far as I can tell, working for Doge last time I heard.

Yeah, Director Big Balls.

Yeah,

he's quite busy nowadays.

Here they discuss why there's an air traffic controller shortage.

You put a post about it, just to get back to it, saying that we need highly qualified air traffic controllers.

If you've retired, if you would consider doing it again, we could use you.

Yes.

So

a lot of really qualified air traffic controllers were pushed out because of DEI stuff.

So,

I mean, not to be blunt, I mean,

a bunch of really really good, talented old white guys were pushed out.

It's not cool.

And so we have, there's a talent shortage in air traffic control because of DEI and not being, not hiring people on merit, you know?

Which is so crazy that that worked.

I think we should not put the public safety at risk,

you know, because of some demanded philosophy.

Yeah, notice how he doesn't prove that any of these people were pushed out because of DEI.

He just states that.

If you're a white guy who's not in the work anymore, well, you're pushed out due to DEI.

There's no other reason, nothing could possibly be another reason in there.

I'll link an article.

The Air Traffic Controllers Union responded to this, and the president of the Air Traffic Controllers Association said that this isn't true.

Quote, the standards to achieve certification are not based on race and gender, end quote.

And that 78% of air traffic controllers and operator specialists are men, and 71% identified as non-Hispanic white.

So there's already a majority of these people are literally in in the class he's saying are getting pushed out.

It literally doesn't make any sense.

There's also an article to the New York Post on this, and it offers a lawsuit as its proof that there was DEI issues, but it's just a lawsuit.

Nothing has happened with this lawsuit.

So there's a New York Post article that seems to claim that this is true.

But again, it's just like the New York Post

can say, here's a lawsuit that's happening and it's DEI that's ruining air traffic controllers, but it's just a lawsuit and that doesn't prove anything is actually happening in the sort of business of air traffic controlling.

Yeah, I mean, if it's an ongoing lawsuit that hasn't had any kind of conclusion, then anybody could bring a lawsuit and lose it.

And

you don't get points for losing a lawsuit.

And the other thing is, you know, ask the public, do you feel safer flying now or six months ago?

And I think you get a pretty clear answer from people there.

They spent a few minutes talking about the origin of the Doge name.

Also, like, Doge started as sort of a meme coin.

Right.

You know, it was like a joke cryptocurrency involving memes and dogs.

Which is so funny that the letters wound up being perfect.

Yeah.

Well, actually, I was originally going to quote like the Government Efficiency Commission, which is a very boring name.

And then people online were like, no, it needs to be the Department of Government Efficiency.

And I was like, you know what?

You're right.

Of course.

Of course.

Of course.

I mean, it's more evidence of the simulation.

Totally.

That little cheese.

like our mascot is a is a cute dog.

Yeah.

It's a meme coin.

The meme coin is probably worth a lot of money right now, right?

Like every time you tweet about it, it probably shoots up.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I think this is all perfect.

This says so much about both Elon and Joe that we could spend ages just dissecting this like 40-second clip.

Because first of all, you have Elon explaining that Doge was a meme and therefore funny, which is so much of Elon's personality.

He brings up memes again and again as sources of humor humor and sources of argument and source of information.

But Joe seems to think that Doge wasn't like as an acronym was an accident, that it was a coincidence that Doge, his department, was the same as the coin.

Then Elon explains, no, no, it wasn't.

I was going to call it something else.

But this funny acronym was an anonymous person put this forward.

But then he's giving himself credit for the joke that someone anonymous on the internet made, which again is very Elon must to take credit for what someone else has said and done.

It's so true.

He does that.

At that point, that's when Joe realizes that the name was made to fit the acronym.

He's like, oh,

you hear it dawn on him.

And then Joe mentions that the Doge department is pumping the crypto coin.

The fact that he's called department Doge is going to pump that crypto coin.

And Elon pretends he doesn't realize that, as if he's not profiting from that, as if he hasn't got crypto coins.

He hasn't got a Doge crypto coin that is going up in value because of the fact that he's using Doge in this kind of way.

All of this is such a kind of a perfect encapsulation of these two guys.

The beginning of it reminds me of an old commercial where they show the invention of the Reese's cup, where one guy's walking around a corner with a stick of chocolate and the other one has a peanut butter jar and they accidentally run into each other.

Like, Joe believes that's the origin of the peanut butter cup instead of like, hey man, somebody just designed this thing.

It's just, that's how it works.

Like, we just, someone just came up with this name or this idea instead of it being programmed into the simulation as Joe said.

Do you think when Joe sees every one of those like house bills that have got like a really convoluted name that spells out a very appropriate word, do you think every single time Joel's like, oh, what a coincidence that this perfectly normal name you've given a bill spells out a word that's very apropos?

Oh, that's amazing.

All right.

Now we get into a piece that went a little viral from this episode.

This is Elon comparing Social Security to a Ponzi scheme.

I mean, the government's one big permit scheme, if you ask me.

Yeah, well, you can talk about it.

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.

Right, explain that.

Oh, so

well, people pay into Social Security

and the money goes out of Social Security immediately, but the obligation for Social Security is your entire retirement career.

So you're paying

what you're the kind of people you're paying like if you look at the future obligations of Social Security, it far exceeds the tax revenue.

Far.

Have you ever looked at

the debt clock?

Yes.

Okay.

There's our present-day debt, but then there's our future obligations.

So when you look at the future obligations of Social Security,

the actual national debt is like double what people think it is because of the future obligations.

So basically people are living way longer than expected,

and there are fewer babies being born.

So you have more people who are retired and get...

that live for a long time and get retirement payments.

So the future obligations, so

however bad the financial situation is right now for the federal government, it will be much worse in the future.

Yeah, so like he's saying here that pensions and all that kind of stuff is gonna is outweighing tax revenue, which is true.

But the solution he puts forward is to like lower pensions or to cut social security or to like trim away the waste in there.

And he's putting that solution forward to like take his chainsaw to Social Security, because that's not going to affect him at all.

He's not going to be affected by those things at all.

What he isn't doing is addressing the other half of that equation, the fact that tax revenue is too low.

He's not addressing the money that's lost to tax cuts and tax avoidance and and other tax schemes because you can address the debt clock by increasing your tax revenue, but that isn't his solution because that actually would affect him.

And he is well known for employing the methods that

people, rich people and companies use to avoid paying their fair share to society.

Yeah, there's an article from Business Insider, which points that out in the last three years, Tesla paid $48 million in federal income tax in all of 2023 on a total of $10.8 billion income.

You know, the other thing he obviously misses here, Marsh, is that you can easily fix this problem of fewer people contributing to Social Security and fewer people having babies by allowing immigration.

Yeah.

You could literally just allow immigration and that solves the issue completely.

More people put in, more people live here, more people reproduce.

It's easier to make all those payments.

Social Security stays solvent, no problem.

It literally works itself out if you just start allowing us to have immigrants.

Yeah, absolutely.

And he will come to immigrants and replacing the population.

We'll come to a clip on that shortly.

But it's fair to point out that lots of people in the side of the political spectrum that Elon and Joe find themselves on are pretty skeptical, are pretty negative about the idea of, say, immigrants from Africa coming to America and having a dozen children.

They're quite worried about the impact of that.

It's just a shame that Elon Musk is literally an immigrant immigrant from Africa who came to America and has a dozen children.

He's literally an example of the thing that he and his people are scared of.

Okay, next, Joe brings up something that they might have covered before.

This is fraud in the Department of Social Security.

Sure.

There was an interview with this woman who was a whistleblower.

Did we ever find out if that was true?

There's so many whistles being blown.

It's hard to keep track.

A lot of whistles.

This one lady.

It was only in one state.

It was a very specific instance.

Right, but it was using Social Security money, correct?

I don't know.

That was her allegation.

So, what she was alleging was that she was in charge of turning illegal immigrants into clients.

That's what they would call them.

And that she would go to them and try to ask them, Do you have a headache?

Do you have back problems?

If you do, now you can be permanently disabled.

You get permanent disability, so you get Social Security for life.

Yes.

Not just Social Security, but disability, which is even more.

Right.

And you get them on the taxpayer doll right away, the moment, and they're illegal aliens.

Yes.

So if I were to say, like, what's at the heart of the sort of, like, why is the Democrat propaganda machine so fired up to destroy me?

That's the main reason.

The main reason is that

entitlements fraud, that includes like Social Security, disability, Medicaid, entitlements fraud for illegal aliens, is what is serving as a gigantic magnetic force to pull people in from all around the world and keep them here.

Before you debunk literally everything he just said, Marsh, I want to say what a great start this is for Joe.

He says, did we ever find out if that thing I'm going to complain about is true?

And then he never finds out.

And then he just complains about it as if it's real.

Yeah.

And you have Jamie like trying to say, oh, no, well, it wasn't everywhere.

Oh, it was just in one place.

And he's like, yeah, but it was that one place.

And you can hear Jamie sort of going, well, no, not really.

But like Jamie's desperately standing in front of you.

No, I'm not sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's desperately trying to hold back the tide, Jamie.

And there's no, there's no stopping this flood of misinformation that's going to come from Joe.

But like illegal immigrants aren't entitled to disability or Medicaid.

That's what the illegal bit of it means.

If you aren't registered, you can't get those things.

Now, from what I understand, some illegal, undocumented immigrants do sometimes end up using a social security number, but that's because their employees need to pay taxes.

And so they use

the social security numbers of like people who aren't them in order to put those taxes into the system.

But they can't draw the money back out on those figures.

So they're actually a net contributor in those kinds kinds of ways.

But meanwhile, remember, Elon Musk is literally an immigrant who takes huge amounts of money out of the government via subsidies and tax avoidance and the contracts he awards his companies from his insider connections to the government.

But apparently that doesn't count as a drain on the system here.

I imagine, I can't be sure, but it feels like something like this would play really well.

with Joe's listeners.

They're probably young, probably blue-collar.

Maybe none of them ever had anybody that they've known that has been on disability because the chance of that actually happening grows as you age, right?

More and more people in your life may actually wind up on disability, but when you're in your 20s, that's a pretty rare thing that might happen in your life.

So maybe they don't even know anybody.

They might, you know, and they might actually feel pretty negatively to people who are U.S.

born and even on some social security insurance or disability.

They might actually feel negatively towards those people because none of them are actually in their orbit, right?

So those people, they don't know them personally and they might feel a little resentful to somebody like that.

And then add in the lie that it's immigrants, because it's a total lie that immigrants are getting this.

And that makes them furious, right?

That's the thing that's going to tune this group up because they're probably already in a mode that's like talks about the things that we call entitlements as, you know, somebody who's lazy or on the dole.

And that's the kind of rhetoric that they keep feeding these people.

And really,

one, it's not happening for immigrants at all.

And they're just trying to work you up to get you mad about this so that you could get mad at the previous administration.

It could even be that there are people who are in those situations who could be on disability or unemployment or have friends or family members who are.

And in those situations, they'll be mad about the people.

Well, you know, the people in my life, well, that's genuine.

I know that person or I know me.

My situation's real.

I'm so irate that someone could be pretending to be going through what I'm going through.

And that might be limiting the help that I can get because there's not enough money in the system.

And there's not enough money in the system because it's going to fake claimants.

And if those fake claimants weren't here, I'd be able to get the help that I need.

So, like, you can even turn this against the people who are the users of this service.

Yeah, right.

And the reason that you're not getting the money that you need isn't because someone's out there stealing your money.

It's because the money isn't getting put in because of tax avoidance or because of systems like Doge cutting the waste when they see you as that waste.

Here, we're going to talk a little bit about FEMA.

Joe circles back to FEMA here.

You know, FEMA, like the agency that was paying for illegal aliens to stay at luxury hotels in New York was FEMA.

You know,

that's an agency that's meant to support Americans in distress from natural disasters, was paying for luxury hotels for illegals in New York.

It's true.

Yeah.

That's a fact.

Fact.

They literally, like, when we stopped that payment, we stopped all those monies, because that's obviously an insane way to spend taxpayer money.

New York sued the government, sued the federal government, to get the money.

So you could just look at their lawsuit.

They were sending that money even after President Trump signed an executive order saying it needs to stop.

They still press send on $80 million to luxury hotels in New York.

Your tax money went to pay for illegal aliens in luxury hotels in New York from an agency that is meant to help Americans in distress from natural disasters.

Right.

And I would like to know how much.

And I would like to know how much they spent on North Carolina and how much they spent on Maui.

So they're lying again.

I'm going to link an article that is from the AP.

It's FEMA funding to New York City to assist migrants is misrepresented is the name of the article.

The money covered reimbursements for services delivered between November 2023 and October of 2024.

And it included hotels, security, food, and other costs at about 19 million.

And the claims were that

In the reimbursement, the claims were for hotel costs.

She said these were not at luxury hotels.

these were in places outside of the city where they were paying for people to stay and why were the migrants in New York City to begin with why was there big batch of migrants in New York City well there's actually no facilities no real facilities to house them no place to put them but governors from southern states bust those people to New York City during the winter without any supplies whatsoever so they dropped them off on New York City streets and said best of luck to you in flip-flops in the middle of the winter.

And then somebody was like, hey, we've got to make sure we take care of these people.

And so that's how all that money had to be spent up there.

That sort of stuff's already set up in the southern states.

They don't have to move them around the country, but they chose to.

And now they're blaming New York for actually taking care of the people that they sent up here in the middle of winter.

And that's quite, that's, that's wild when you, uh, when you put it out that way, because they didn't need, the southern states didn't need to do this.

That was a big political football that was just a, they were making a stunt in order to make a point, in order to try, you know, push their

particular agenda at that point.

And when the repercussions of their stunt involve needing to spend a large amount of public money in order to deal with the show that they're trying to do, that also becomes a stick to beat the people that they disagree with.

So like you are, it's sort of playing both sides of it here.

There's a no-win situation.

Yeah, they had no chance of winning that.

They outplayed the Democrats by creating this situation and then blaming them for the situation.

Exactly.

Also,

in a different article, it says there's numerous social media posts and some news reports claim that money should be used to help the, this money particularly should be used to help the victims of Hurricane Helene, which devastated parts of the western North Carolina.

But the funds for the disaster assistance were administered separately.

So they keep mentioning that it came out of these FEMA funds and there's one big pot for FEMA funds.

And because they reached their hand in there, they pulled the money out of the pockets of the people who were damaged by a hurricane in North Carolina.

That's just not true.

They're just lying to you.

That's not actually true.

It's a different, it's a totally different fund and they're making it up.

Yeah.

And they don't bring up those victims of

those victims in North Carolina unless they're using it to talk about money that could have gone to them, which went somewhere that they happen to disagree with.

There's never a point where Joe is just apropos of nothing saying, and how about we talk about the people in North Carolina who were devastated by the hurricane?

We're going to continue this clip on they're going to start talking about

buying votes with FEMA money.

Yes, exactly.

What's actually happening is they're buying voters.

That's really what's happening.

It's like a giant voter board scam.

They're importing voters and it's really just a matter of time.

So like a lot of people have trouble believing this, but the more you look at it, the more you will realize just how much of a problem this is and how it's it's it's not just real.

It is

an attempt to destroy democracy in America.

That's what it, in my view, is what it really is.

Like, if you take the

sort of seven swing states, like often the margin of victory there is like maybe 20,000 votes.

If you put 200,000 illegals in there, and they have like an 80% likelihood of voting down,

and it's only a matter of time before they become citizens, then those swing states will not be swing states in the future.

And if they are not swing states, we'll be a permanent one-party state country.

Permanent deep blue socialist state.

That's what America will become.

And that was the game plan.

That was the game plan.

That is still the game plan.

And so they almost succeeded.

If the machine of which the Kamala puppet was the representation had won, that's what would have happened.

That's just not true.

They can't vote.

So it's a stupid scenario that he's making up in his head.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, his scenario was that they'll stay there long enough that it'll eventually get citizenship, and at that point, they can vote.

The assumption then that 80% of the people would vote Democrat doesn't actually play out by people who actually become naturalized citizens.

It doesn't work as simply as that.

But the bigger point here is what they're talking about, what Elon's putting forward, is basically the great replacement theory.

The idea that there's a bunch of elites somewhere who are using politicians as puppets in order to ship in immigrants who are there to dilute the voting power of the native population and therefore secure the political agenda of the elites.

This is known as the Calergi plan or the white genocide theory.

And there's so much to say about about this.

And

I'm going to try and be as absolutely charitable as possible here.

And I'll start that by assuming that Elon doesn't know that the origins of this idea he's putting forward is in anti-Semitic propaganda.

Because in this idea, the idea is that the elites who are trying to do this, these are Jewish elites who are trying to weaken the white race politically and socially through the mass migration of people of color.

So when the not very fine people of Charlottesville marched and chanted, Jews will not replace us, they weren't worried about Jewish people taking their place.

They were talking about Jewish elites giving their place to people of color.

So when Elon, what Elon is actually espousing here is a somewhat watered-down version of that, but it's unmistakable here.

This is the same idea, you know, that they're moving immigrants into parts of the country in order to change the political makeup and the political landscape in favor of whoever is importing the voters.

And the result of that will be your democracy and your way of life will be destroyed.

I want to jump in and talk about the charitable piece here because I know you're going to do that a couple times when you refute this, Marsh.

And I want to say the reason why we often will do giving him the benefit of the doubt or the most charitable is that even when we do that, they're absolutely wrong and this is abhorrent.

Right.

So even if let's just presume that we're being charitable, this is awful.

This is a being a bad person.

This is using, this is, this is not thinking and actually trying to hurt people by your ignorance.

So even if we're being generous to them, it's bad.

So often people will criticize.

I've seen some criticism in the past and we've gotten messages from people who have said, you know, I think you guys are completely wrong.

Joe's a, Joe's a Russian stooge or Joe does this and he's doing this purposefully.

Often when we frame it like this, we're saying that even if we, even when we give them the benefit of the doubt, they're being bad people.

We can't know for certain that the worst case scenario is what's true.

But what we can say is if we look at the best case scenario, if that turns out to be incredibly bad, then we know that nothing, like there isn't a version of this that is better than that best case scenario.

Yeah.

And so again, being as charitable as possible here, maybe Elon doesn't realize that what he's saying is a version of that white supremacist idea.

But the thing is, Elon didn't come up with this idea.

He's heard it somewhere.

And given his power and his influence that he's got in America right now, it is very fair and very reasonable to ask, where did you hear this?

And to wonder who is influencing Elon to come across these ideas?

All of Twitter.

Yeah, yeah.

All of the platform that he owns since he instituted the changes when he took over it that made it kind of go wild on that platform.

Yeah.

And we should also contrast this with what he says, all of this here, with what he'll say when we come to the undercard in a moment, which is Elon's PR tour, where he's trying to persuade us that that wasn't a Nazi salute that you just saw.

And the people who are criticizing him are just alarmist and hysterical.

That's what we're going to come to.

And

the fact that he says, you know, I've never said anything that would make people think he sympathized with fascists, because right here, he is rolling out a barely diluted version of a literal neo-Nazi propagandist notion.

That's what he's doing here.

And again, as a reminder, the only immigrant who is undermining democracy in America right now is the one taking a chainsaw to government agencies.

It's a great point.

Okay, here Elon and Joe take a minute to talk about how the government weaponized the justice system against Donald Trump.

That's the other thing that drives me crazy, like that people don't understand that if you sanction lawfare like that, if you sanction attacking your political enemies, someone's going to do that to you.

Like if the wrong people get in office, if new people get in off four years from now, eight years from now, who knows who it's going to be?

You've already set a precedent.

You've already attacked someone, charged them with 34 felonies where they're really just misdemeanors, and they're also past the statute of limitation, and now you're talking all over the news that this is a convicted felon, convicted felon.

They kept saying convicted felon, convicted felon.

And everybody knows what it is.

It's terrifying.

It's terrifying they could do it so brazenly to a guy who was the president for four years.

Right.

That lawsuit was funded by Reid Hoffman, who is a major damn donor and also an Efstein client.

The plot thickens.

The plot thickens.

Jesus Christ.

Yes.

So what exactly is Joe carrying water for here?

You're carrying water for Trump going after his opponents using the law.

There could be no other reason for him to bring it up in this kind of way.

Yeah, yeah.

And I just want to point out that he's wrong.

These are felonies.

Falsification of a business record in the first degree is a felony.

Second degree is a misdemeanor.

It's a felony if you try to cover up another crime with it.

And that's what he was trying to do.

And

he is right that the New York statute of limitations did run out on these.

It's five years, but they extended the statute of limitations because of COVID-19.

So COVID-19 pushed a lot of different things back because they weren't able to do a lot of things in person and they had to figure out how to do that.

So they pushed it back, but it fell, it still fell within those particular statute of limitations extensions.

And so that's why they charged him with it.

There's links on this.

He could literally know this.

It's not hard to find out.

And he talks about Reed Hoffman, who funded that lawsuit against

Trump and how he's a Democratic donor.

So Reid Hoffman funded the case, the civil case against Trump when he was sued by Eugene Carroll, who accused him of rape and defamation.

And so on January 26th, 2024, the jury deliberated for three hours and awarded Carroll $7.3 million in emotional damages and $11 million in reputational related damages, plus $65 million in punitive damages, totaling $83.3 million.

So that was the outcover for her case against Donald Trump.

And the jury found that Trump had committed sexual abuse and forcible touching, which were two of the three elements of Carroll's battery claim.

So the reason why Reid Hoffman, should we be worried that Reed Hoffman is funding this this case?

Well, partly, suing someone costs a lot of money.

Getting legal representation costs a lot of money, especially suing someone rich who can afford more lawyers than you and better lawyers than you.

So the alternative here is Joe would have, or Joe and Elon would have a world where if you're too rich to sue, you can do anything you want to people.

Is that what Joe thinks is the right way to be?

If he's against the idea of Reid Hoffman being involved here, or does he want a world where if you're innocent, you actually get to prove that in court?

And Trump did actually try to claim that Hoffman's assistance in this case was prejudicial because Hoffman had been publicly critical of Trump.

But the thing is, if we accepted that, the only people able to help your victims seek justice would be the people who don't dislike you.

This seems like a very odd world.

Bearing in mind,

it's a matter of public record that David Pecker, who's Trump's friend and runs the National Inquirer, would use his magazine funds to buy negative stories about Trump's affairs so that he could lock those witnesses up in NDAs to silence it.

So Trump's friends will happily be fine spending their money to try and stop justice from happening.

You know, Trump's very happy for the wealthy people who get involved when it's on his side, but apparently it's bad if someone supporting the person he was

found to have sexually assaulted is someone who's rich.

And Trump did submit an argument to the presiding judge, Louis Kaplan, over Hoffman's involvement in the case.

So this has all been litigated.

And from that case, quote, upon reviewing the additional material obtained by Trump's lawyers, Kaplan said it had no bearing on Carol's credibility and that the potential risk of causing unfairness to Carol outweighed whatever minuscule relevance it has in the case.

Kaplan said, I've determined there is virtually nothing there in terms of credibility.

So Hoffman's involvement has been litigated and there was nothing there to be prejudicial.

But here is Elon Musk bringing it up to say the plot thickens.

The plot didn't thicken.

You're just rumor mongering at this point.

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Well, it's just factually inaccurate on so many different levels.

I don't understand why you wrote it like that.

All right.

So this is our undercard this time.

Instead of doing a skeptical toolbox, there's just so much in this.

We decided to do an undercard this time.

And this one is...

Talking about Elon's sort of public relation visit.

We see this with a lot of his guests.

They come on.

They have a plan when they come on.

They know what they're going to talk about when they sit down with Joe Rogan.

And this is sort of what Elon came on to talk about.

And we've added in, of course, Joe's adoring comments about Elon.

So, here is the start of this.

It's pretty close to the beginning of the show.

What is it like to buy a company for $44 billion and then people call you a Nazi on that same thing that you bought?

I did not see it coming.

See, it's classic.

People will go send anything down.

Yeah.

Oh, he's never going to stop.

What is it like?

The left was in love with you.

Yeah.

And now the same idiots are calling you a Nazi.

It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in my life.

There's so many examples of people saying my heart goes out to you.

Fit it with a little enthusiasm that probably wouldn't be recognized with hindsight.

Yes.

But it was obviously meant in the most positive spirit possible.

Yes.

Yeah.

Obviously.

Obviously.

But it's so strange where people want to think that you are openly,

publicly doing secret, Nazi, Sea Kyle hand motions.

And now I can never point at things diagonally.

I can only point at things there and there.

And then I say you have to divide that because that's where the spaceship is over there.

It's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous.

CNN, when I was in all my trouble.

Absurd.

Every time CNN used a photo of me, it was one of the photos from the UFC Wayans, where I go like, welcome to the Weyans.

So every photo was me.

Every photo was me with Big Black.

It's absurd.

It's so crazy.

It's deliberate propaganda.

So they know it was obviously not meant

in a negative way, that it was, that I literally said, my heart goes out to you, and it was very positive.

The entire speech was very positive.

If it isn't anything, why won't people recreate it?

If it's just harmless, keep doing it over and over again.

He should just do it right now.

If it's literally harmless, he should have just done it a bunch of times in a row and neither of them did it in this moment if you watch the video.

Yeah, exactly.

And we have seen people doing it, and it's very clear they've been doing it for this deliberately provocative kind of way.

but joe's story here isn't remotely the same he says oh yeah whenever they use a picture of me it's from a thing where i'm doing it it looks like the same but a still thought or of you pointing at something is going to be much easier to make it look like a nazi salute if you catch the picture at the right point but a video where you do it twice in a row a very clear nazi salute is completely different it's not remotely the same thing joe's just trying to whitewash this and and look i don't know if elon holds the same beliefs as in nazi but i will point out that he rehired a Doge staffer that said horribly racist and eugenic things.

And then he also promoted

in a tweet, Tucker interviewing a Nazi apologist that he felt was pushed so over the line that he even deleted that tweet.

So I don't know if he does, if he believes this racist stuff, but he certainly sometimes promotes it.

We can't know what he thinks, but I don't for a second actually suspect that Elon was signaling that he really likes Hitler or that he wishes the Third Reich never fell.

I don't think that's what he was doing.

But I think if you ask me, he does know that what he was doing was a Nazi salute.

And I suspect he did it to be edgy and try to trigger the link.

I think you're right.

And if that was true, he should just have the balls to come out and say that and own it and take what comes as a result of that.

But he doesn't have those goods, so he won't do that.

That's very true.

Yeah.

Now, here they're going to try to say that this is a video clip where they talk about Tim Walls and he does, according to them, the exact same thing.

There's a video of Tim Walls doing the exact same thing.

Doing the exact same thing.

Exact same thing.

And he said, of course, it's a Nazi salute.

He said that.

This is how crazy things have gotten.

Well,

it's coordinated propaganda.

So

the, you know, it's, yeah, coordinated propaganda.

I mean, doesn't it seem weird that the legacy media all says the same thing?

They all say the same thing at the same time using the same phrases.

They barely even, they don't even bother picking up a thesaurus.

Right.

Yeah, I mean, he says Tim Waltz did the same thing.

Okay, show us the video, Joel.

You've got Jamie sat right there.

You could find the video.

Actually, show us that.

If it's exactly the same, if Waltz did exactly what you're saying, show us.

But he won't, even though he could very easily do that because it doesn't fit their narrative.

It's not the same thing when you see it.

Yeah, I had to find a video of it, and I couldn't find it without some idiot laughing in the background.

So just turn the sound down, but you can watch this video and you can see how different this looks.

He's holding his arm straight out with the fingers open like a wave.

So Walls touches his chest and then he holds his arm straight out away from his body, perpendicular, and he's holding his hands out as if they're separated.

His fingers are separated.

Now, it can totally look different here if you do that with the 45 degree angle and your hands closed because that's a Nazi salute.

That's the difference between the two things.

They look so different.

And he's being, it's almost like he's being purposefully obtuse on how these things look different.

And the most egregious part, Marsh, is that these movements do look so different if you just pay attention to them.

It's like people are saying that Elon didn't clap when he was on stage.

And let's say Elon did demonstrate a clap and then they just miss hands, like purposefully miss their own hands to be like, well, that's what he did.

He didn't actually clap on stage.

It's it's literally showing you something that didn't actually happen.

And this is again, even more egregious because Joe's a martial arts guy.

He knows how the body moves and how to do a proper technique and where your body needs to be.

And you can watch that video and see how Walls does it and know it's not exactly the same.

It's 100% different.

These people all try to pretend like they're recreating it and they're not recreating exactly what Elon did.

Nobody, I have not seen a single person do exactly what Elon did since everybody has been asking them to recreate it.

They all do a very different version and say it's the same thing.

Yeah, unless you're talking about Steve Bannon or Calvin Calvin Robinson, who did very clearly do exactly the same thing because they want to do these deliberately provocative things.

But the fact that Joe and Elon are working so hard to explain why this is just no big deal at all shows that they clearly do recognize that this was a big deal.

They know exactly what this is, and they have to work their asses off to do, to cover for this.

Yeah, they have to gaslight everybody to pretend that it didn't happen because, like you suggest, it's a real bad look.

This is really terrible for them, but he's trying to wash it away.

I mean, look at what, look at what's happening to Tesla stock here.

I mean, like, we're seeing the effects of him going hard right and doing these things.

People are not happy with how he's acting, and they're showing him by not buying his cars.

And he's clearly upset and upset enough to make it a big part of his visit here.

So now they're going to continue to discuss gaslighting and propaganda.

Post the receipts.

And if you're only talking about the propaganda talking points and you're not talking about the very clear fraud and waste, it's very obvious obvious what you're doing.

You're just gaslighting.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

So exactly.

Because we're just like, look, in fact, I've said we're going to make mistakes.

We're not going to be perfect.

So if we make a mistake, we'll quickly fix it.

So there's two things here.

First of all, if Joe only ever talks about the headline-grabbing stuff that turns out to be bollocks and never talks about the real harm that's been done from all these cuts, that's gaslighting.

That is the gaslighting that Joe is accusing people of here.

And also notice that Musk says, look, I'm going to make mistakes.

Elon Musk gets to make mistakes, but with anybody else, the outcomes are seen as deliberate.

Think about when they talked about USAID funding opium in Afghanistan.

You know, it was a bad, ill-thought-out program.

And the end result was the infrastructure they put in place ended up being used to grow poppies.

But nobody could, you don't get to look at that and say, well, USAID made a mistake there.

That has to be deliberate.

That was what they were trying to do the entire time.

Now they talk about meme coin do's and don'ts from Elon Musk.

The whole meme coin thing is bananas.

It is so bananas that people dump real money into these coins and then you can just pump them up and sell them.

Yeah, it's totally cool.

And then people just do greater fool theory and musical chairs and whoever's like the last to sit down loses type of thing.

And somehow or another it's still legal.

I think not too many people.

I mean,

it's sort of like you go to the casino, like you if you expect to win at the casino, you're being a fool.

That's right.

So I think if you expect to win at meme coins, you're being it's not, you're being foolish.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're not going to win at meme coins.

It's like, it's, it's, it's, but if, if, if you want, like, don't sink your life savings into a meme coin.

So Joe's saying, oh, somehow it's still legal.

Yeah, it's legal because you guys are trying to gut things like the CFPB and other regulations that would stop it.

Like you've had entire episodes where you're talking about how the regulation of these spaces is a negative thing that will damage America.

Yeah, man.

That's why it stays legal.

But here, Elon is laughing at people who he sees as stupid enough to buy meme coins.

Now, bear in mind, both Trump and his wife have cleaned up people's savings with their meme coin pump and dubs since the inauguration.

Yes.

What this says is Elon Musk, the way he's laughing at the idea of meme coins and stuff like that, Elon Musk and his friends have nothing but contempt for you, the listener.

They are not your heroes.

They are there to exploit you.

That's very clearly signaling that with what he's doing and the laughing and the contempt that he has here.

Yeah, that's a great point, Marsh.

Also, they point out that it's musical chairs, that whoever gets caught is the one who gets, it's not musical chairs, it's three card money.

They're literally coming out to

trick people to put their money down and then they will take your money.

They are, they, they control all the levers.

It's not even like musical chairs where there's a chance you might be able to sit down.

There's no chance you can sit down.

If you get involved in these meme coins, they will dump on you.

That is 100% chance.

The only people who get rich off this are the ones who make it and control the levers.

That's it.

All right, so this is one of the many times that Joe talks about how difficult it must be to be someone as great as Elon Musk

What has this experience been like for you as a person like to deal with all this hate and attack also have the responsibility of keeping free speech alive with X and just going into this insane pile of stressful I mean I don't know it's pretty stressful actually

yeah these are real enemies.

Like, I think they actually want to kill me.

And the reason I know this is, well, they say so online.

There's like Reddit forums where they don't just want to kill me.

They want to desecrate my corpse.

That type of thing.

And what are they saying?

Why?

What is the primary?

I mean,

I think it's sort of just an antibody response.

I mean, it's like

they're like, well, he's a Nazi

type of thing.

And I'm like, well, I'm not a Nazi.

But if the legacy media is saying that I'm a Nazi and that's all you read,

then

you're kind of in like, well, he's Hitler.

We should assassinate Hitler, shouldn't we?

So like this question from Joel is just embarrassingly sycophantic.

So how is Elon?

Is it hard being so amazing?

Like I found it so hard to listen to.

And then Elon's response is to, you know, people dislike him.

He genuinely appears to not understand how someone could possibly dislike him.

And I find that level of being like detached from reality.

Like, I could imagine how people could dislike me.

And I'm not one of the world's most famous billionaires who is like

roughshod over so many things in my life and career.

It's like just having the ability to empathize with other people's point of view, but he just got nothing for that.

He's literally nothing.

He's like, like you suggested at the very beginning of this, of this episode, Marsh, he's got main character syndrome.

He can't imagine anyone not liking him.

It's just like it doesn't even compute.

But I want to point out his metaphor here that the reason why people don't like him and are wishing ill things upon him is because it's an antibody response.

Like, understand antibodies are good and they are, and you are in your own metaphor saying you're a virus or a bacteria.

I didn't even clock that, but no,

you're completely right.

I mean, it's stopped clock.

He's absolutely nailed that one fair play to him yeah

and look literally all he's got for why people dislike him is because the news say that he's a nazi and therefore he's literally a nazi and they should assassinate him like hitler no but literally nobody is saying that elon musk is hitler People aren't even saying that he is literally a Nazi in the sense of a member of the Third Reich who wants to kind of invade Poland.

That's not what we're talking about here.

It's the things that the positions he's espousing and his flirtation with fascism is the stuff that people are finding offensive.

And he is claiming that they want to kill him.

The people out there, they want to kill him.

And when pushed on that, the they is someone on Reddit.

People on Reddit say things about him.

Isn't this the guy who says that everyone should be able to say what they like on social media?

People should grow thicker skins.

Isn't this that guy?

Yeah.

And yet, here he is, a billionaire embedded at the center of U.S.

government, complaining that he's being bullied on Reddit.

It's embarrassing.

It really is.

Can I just turn back to Joe, though, for a second?

And you can just just tell how much he idolizes this guy.

It's for a lot of this conversation, it's genuinely embarrassing to listen to Joe.

And I want to, this, I mean this.

I really mean this.

Let's just pretend I don't think that a lot of people who are real Joe stands might listen to us.

But if you are, let's say that you're, this is your first time you caught this podcast and you thought, hey, I'll give this a shot.

And I'm a real Joe stand.

And maybe you don't agree with Marsh or I on anything, but I just want to ask you genuinely this question.

Don't you think Joe is trying to come off often and trying to purport the values of being strong and independent often throughout his show?

And if that's the case, doesn't he look incredibly sidekicky in this?

Isn't he presenting himself as genuinely sidekicky?

I just want to ask those people, like people who sort of in many ways think about Joe as a strong person who's giving these sort of I don't give a fuck interviews.

What do you think of Joe in this case?

How do you think about Joe Rogan when he's being a sycophant for Elon Musk for three hours?

Yeah, yeah, completely.

All right, now there's a lot of this back and forth, and we're going to play a couple of clips here about it, but it's Elon.

He's basically got a secret that he won't tell anyone.

I mean, this is really going to get me assassinated.

It's like,

I'm not lengthening my lifespan by explaining this stuff, to say the least.

I mean, I was supposed to get back to DC.

How am I going to survive?

This filter is going to kill me for sure.

So

in fact, I do think there's, it's like, I actually have to be careful that I don't push too hard on the corruption stuff because it's going to get me killed.

So bear in mind that the bit before this conversation, he's talking about the people in power, in government, and how, yeah, some of them get by on insider trading and make money as a senator or congressperson, but that's not the biggest way of making money.

There is another way of making money,

an even bigger way of making sure fire money if you've got access to power.

And that's what he wants to say.

And I think this is interesting because in this conversation he has literally named names that he thinks were epstein's clients by name he's he's pulled out people's names he has yeah he's talked about specific overspends and wastes he's called something the biggest fraud of all time but when asked about how somebody could use the kind of insider knowledge that he now definitely has to make make vast sums of money he's suddenly reluctant he's suddenly coy he won't talk about what that method would be why might it be that he won't tell you how someone could use the knowledge that he has to make vast sums of money out of the government?

Yeah, that's a great point.

See, I had a different take on this, which I think your take is better, honestly, Marsh.

I think your take is better.

But my take was, you know, oftentimes grifters will create an imaginary problem and then they're the only one that can solve it.

Here we get an opportunity to see somebody who's making up a foe and then vanquishing them for us.

But I like your take too, because honestly, there is a guy who's making a lot of money off the United States too, through a lot of grants and things, and he's canceling a lot of other ones.

And his name is Elon Musk.

Yeah.

And to be honest, I mean, we could only speculate as to what kind of

incredibly profitable thing he could have access to now.

But I would say that if you've got social security data and you've got the personal data of every single American who's ever earned any money or paid any taxes, and you wanted like data is the new gold rush.

There is a huge amount of money to be made in data.

And Elon Musk has access to a lot of that data now.

And that's just the stuff that we'd know about.

There's definitely ways you could make a lot of money from the position he's currently in.

Look, Marsh, what would a Joe Rogan show be without mention of vaccines?

Here we go.

And I saw the shrieking when RFK Jr.

stopped this new test for new COVID vaccines on children.

10,000.

They're going to do 10,000 people with this COVID vaccine.

Like, who the fuck thinks that's a good thing at this point?

Not me.

What person, what per what gas chamber, like not gas light, you're, you are, you are fully unconscious.

There's no way,

there's no way you know, if you know the effect of COVID today, no one's dying of it.

This is not a pandemic anymore.

The idea that you're to run a fucking huge test with 10,000 kids and a new vaccine.

Like, what are you even doing?

It's completely unnecessary.

Totally unnecessary.

And shrieking when RFK Jr.

steps in to stop it.

Yeah, that's totally crazy.

I mean, I'm like...

I'm overall pro-vaccine, meaning like we think we should have some reasonable number of vaccines against major ailments.

But I I don't think we should be like jamming some little kid with like a giant vial that's like hepatitis B.

Yeah, 20 different things at a time.

It's going to overload your.

It seems like there's a risk of overloading your immune system if you...

I mean, there's like, how many vaccines can you take at a time?

It seems like your systems, there's like some risk of system overload here.

So this is Elon spreading a very well-known anti-vax argument of the too many too soon when it comes to vaccines.

But on what basis is his assumption that we're overloading children's immune systems?

Other than his gut feeling, he's not a doctor.

He's not a medical expert.

He may well have some insight from the number of children he has.

I don't know.

But clearly, he certainly hasn't talked to any actual medical experts about it because they tell him that, yeah, it's been considered.

People have thought about whether a child's immune system can take all of that and they've checked it.

And the vaccine schedule is actually safe.

And we know it's safe because lots and lots of kids have been through it.

And as a result of that, lots of kids don't get stuff like measles, which is something guaranteed to mess with your immune system.

That's going to leave you way more ill than any of these vaccines.

So this is just an anti-vax talking point designed to appeal to people who wouldn't get the, oh, well, vaccines are all evil, but might stop at the, oh, well, maybe we just get some of them.

Maybe it's too many too soon.

Ultimately, the goal is don't vaccinate your kids.

And Elon is playing into that goal.

Also, there's a part of this where Joe talks about COVID and he's like, no one's dying from COVID anymore.

And I want to point out that last week in the United States, there were 464 COVID deaths.

And just in January,

recently, this is this year, January this year,

the flu finally outpaced COVID for deaths.

And the only reason that has happened is because the flu vaccine isn't as efficient against flu this year because the variant has changed since the actual flu vaccination came out.

So since most people got their flu shots, that flu shot isn't as effective against the current flu strain.

So more people are getting the flu and more people are dying from the flu.

And this is the first time in a very long time in January is when that happened.

But don't let them lie to you that somehow COVID isn't still killing people.

COVID is still killing people all across the globe.

The United States has lost 1.2 million people to COVID.

What he's trying to do is he's trying to say that there is nothing really to worry about with COVID.

And I was right the whole time about it.

Listener, do you dislike going to the doctor?

Because Elon might have a cure for that.

I think AI actually will be very helpful with medical stuff.

Because AI can look at

all the studies and look at all the data, cross-check everything, and give you good recommendations.

I mean, even as it is, right now, you can upload your x-rays and your MRI images to Grok and it'll give you a medical diagnosis.

And that diagnosis, from what I've seen, is at least as good as what, if not, I think, I've seen, certainly seen cases where it's actually better than what Dr.

Wood said.

It's phenomenal for blood work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you you can literally take a photograph of your blood work for like the page upload from your phone upload that to Grok and it will tell you if there's if it's it'll it'll it'll understand what it what what what what what that what all the data results are and tell you if there's something wrong it's pretty amazing yeah and it's I haven't seen it be wrong yet well it's supposedly more accurate than most physicians yeah because physicians are human beings and maybe they don't have a deep understanding of the connection between oh you have this deficiency and this is a high and your cortisol is here.

And well, yeah, like, you know, sometimes doctors, especially in high-rent offices, will sell you stuff you don't need.

I love the fact that his go-to about doctors is if you go to doctors with high-rent offices, they'll sell you stuff you don't need.

Even his experience of doctors is this like unimaginable billionaire elite and not the average everyday version of it.

But okay, in the future, even in the near future, I imagine AI will certainly have a role to play in some degree in medical diagnosis.

But right now, we know that AI hallucinates.

Do you want that from your medical provider?

Because people have been using Grok for this.

I mean, Elon has actually solicited people to send in, send to Grok their scans of their x-rays and their blood and stuff like that.

And some users reported, yeah, it's worked out fine.

They've got an accurate analysis.

But others have encountered significant errors, including misdiagnoses of broken bones and serious conditions such as tuberculosis.

So we've misdiagnosed that.

And in one instance, Grok misidentified a broken clavicle as a dislocated shoulder, which is a very different thing with a very different way of treating.

Also, the other thing to bear in mind is when you send your medical information to Grok, it is not private.

So, this is an article from Wired that says, according to the company, Grok2 has been explicitly trained on all posts, interactions, inputs, and results of ex-users with everyone being automatically opted in.

And the EU's general data protection, the GDPR regulations, is explicit about obtaining consent to use personal data.

In this case, XAI may have ignored that for Grok.

So you're already kind of automatically into Grok.

And there's an article as well from Futurism, which explains that people sharing their medical information with Musk's chatbot may be under the impression that it's protected by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA.

But those protections enshrined by federal law, which prevent your doctor from sharing your private health information, don't extend beyond the medical purview.

So once you put that out into the open or you give it to social media, you give it to Grok, your medical records are fair game.

And that means they can share them where they want.

They could sell them if they want because data is incredibly valuable to have and sells incredibly well.

So do you want to give all your health information away to Elon Musk company for them to package and sell to whoever they want, however they want?

You've got no privacy anymore there.

All right, here's our last clip.

This is the closing minutes of the show.

And Elon gets to state his case for being there one final time.

Listen, man, thank you for being here.

I always appreciate talking to you.

And I know you're busy as fuck, so it means a lot to me that you have the time to do this.

And I think what you're doing is one of the most important things that has ever happened in this country.

I really do.

Particularly with ownership of X, but also with what's happening with Doge and just enlightening all these people and shining light on all the vampires.

Well, hopefully people realize I'm not a Nazi.

I just want to be clear.

I am not a Nazi.

I think we covered it.

But that's exactly what a Nazi would say.

Damn it.

Yeah, that's what a Hali would say.

Yeah, there's like, you can't escape this bullshit no you can't escape it so uh i don't think any reasonable person believes it if they believe it's because they want to believe it no no let's not because it's logical i mean what's relevant about nazis is like oh you're like invading poland okay um and if you're not

like invading poland maybe you're not yeah like you have to be like committing genocide and like starting wars.

And

if you're not

like, what is actually, what is bad about Nazis?

It's not their it wasn't their fashion sense or their mannerisms.

It was holocaust.

It was the war and genocide is what is the bad part.

Yeah.

Um, not their mannerisms and their dress code.

I like you.

I'm not sure Elon is a Nazi, but I think, like, what he's trying to do, in the best case, he's signaling to the far-right trolls that he's on their side.

And that's not good either.

So, I'm not, it's not like anything you did was good and you can just wash that all away, but he seems to keep on coming back to this over and over.

And I think, like you suggest, this is a PR visit for him to try to get his Tesla stock up.

Yeah, absolutely.

Down to the the point where even Joel Singabaya, as you say, Elon can't help but come back to the Nazi thing because that's why he's there.

So he's like, oh, just could we just restate the Nazi thing one more time?

Just to be clear, I'm not a Nazi.

And look, Elon's obviously being totally disingenuous here.

Because, you know, you know who also isn't trying to march into Poland?

The American neo-Nazis who throw up Nazi salutes to signal that they're part of a white supremacist anti-Semitic movement.

Those are still Nazis, regardless of their intentions for Central Europe.

Like Nick Fuentes isn't trying to occupy the sedatent land, but he was delighted when he saw Musk give a Nazi salute because he knew this was Musk's sibling to him and his fans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Says, hello, Boba thinks you don't smart.

And I'm the last person that thinks I'm smart.

Trust me.

Okay, Marsh, was there anything good in this episode?

So, yes, I'd say so.

There is a bit in the middle that we've not talked about because it wasn't, because it was good, in fact, is that elon gives a like 15 minute explanation of the heat shields on his rockets and the problems that those extreme heats and uh present to to engineering and how to keep those extreme heats from damaging the rockets and that it's not my bag i'm not as interested in rockets but that is a genuinely solid bit of uh of conversation he's getting into the details on it he's talking about how the the shields work it is much better than when they're talking about Jeffrey Epstein or Fort Knox or the great replacement of Americans.

So that bit is good.

Yeah, I mean, other than that slight reprieve from Elon talking about heat shielding and engineering, which he may or may not know anything about because I don't know anything about it.

So I don't know if he's saying right things or wrong things.

I couldn't tell you.

The entire show, the rest of the show, though, is Joe sucking up to Elon, both of them being unbelievably cringe, Elon blatantly lying this entire episode.

At one point, we didn't include it, but there's a part where he talks about empathy and how it's bad, how empathy is bad, and that's a bad thing that you have because you could have too much and that could hurt you overall.

We didn't include the clip because there really wasn't any, I mean, what am I going to say?

Like, that's just a stupid opinion.

I'll tell you now, that's a stupid opinion, but there's a bunch of that stuff in here where you just didn't include it because there's nothing to fact check.

It's just somebody who's so.

morally unwired, I can't fix it in an hour and a half podcast.

So I just decided not to talk about it.

There's a bunch of that stuff in here that you can easily find.

But it was a, it's really one of the more difficult episodes I've ever listened to.

It was really, it was very frustrating to hear him lie so much in this episode.

That is true.

Although I will also say, I felt like I got a pretty good insight into who Elon Musk is, into what he believes, into where he's getting his information, what sort of information he takes in.

In that regard, Joe has said, give me several hours with somebody and I will get through their shield and tell you who they and find out who they really are.

And inadvertently, he does that here.

Right down to, you can tell Elon Musk's habit of

quoting jokes he found online as if and then trying to take credit for them when he's joking about you know I did not see that coming people will gerble anything up those are like David Brent Michael Scott levels of picking a joke from somewhere else and then trying to make someone laugh with it in that kind of way so like I think I get a pretty good insight into who Elon Musk is I just don't think it's a pretty good thing that we're getting an insight into

but yeah so that is it for the show this week remember you can access more than half an hour of bonus content every single week from as little as $1 per episode.

You can do that by subscribing at patreon.com forward slash no Rogan, K-N-O-W-Rogan.

Meanwhile, you can hear more from Cecil at Cognitive Dissonance and Citation Needed.

And you can hear more from me at Skeptics with a K.

We'll be back next week for a little more of the No Rogan experience.

If you love the show, please rate and share it.

If you want to get in touch with us, become a patron, or check out the show notes, go to knowrogan.com.

K-N-O-W-R-O-G-A-N.com.

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