6 Signs You’re Disconnected From Your Power and How to Get It Back: Life-Changing Advice From the Remarkable Dr. Thema Bryant

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 I am so glad that you tuned into the podcast today. I'm actually out in Los Angeles for our daughter's college graduation.

Speaker 1 And while I was out here, I reached out to a woman that I have just, I don't even know how to describe the level of respect and awe.

Speaker 1 And I just know that today,

Speaker 1 it is going to be one hell of a profound conversation. I just feel it in my bones because I'm going to introduce you to Dr.
Tama Bryant. I've never met her before.

Speaker 1 You're going to meet her the same moment that I meet her. Now, Dr.
Tama wears so many hats.

Speaker 1 And the one thing that is the through line in her work is that people around the world who are seeking deeper connection and meaning in life trust her. They turn to her for guidance.

Speaker 1 She is a psychologist, a minister, a tenured professor at Pepperdine University. She's a New York Times best-selling author.

Speaker 1 And in 2023, she was named the very first black female president of the American Psychological Association. Dr.

Speaker 1 Bryant completed her doctorate in clinical psychology at Duke University and her postdoctoral postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School's Victims of Violence program.

Speaker 1 Dr. Tama Bryant is going to help you connect with the truth of who you are, even if you've never truly met the most powerful version of yourself.

Speaker 1 She says, you can always come back home to yourself. Dr.
Tama Bryant's brand new book, Homecoming, Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self, it is a must-read. Dr.

Speaker 1 Tama, I am so thrilled that you are here.

Speaker 2 I am thrilled to be here. I love you.
I love your work.

Speaker 2 And I love getting the word out about the journey home because we need it.

Speaker 1 Do we ever? You know, I was, I'm, I'm pretty emotional today because I'm here in Los Angeles because one of our daughters is graduating from college in a couple of days.

Speaker 1 And I am going after our interview to her final senior performance.

Speaker 2 Ah, beautiful.

Speaker 1 And it's a full circle moment because I'm going to the theater where she got her invitation to audition to even be admitted into the program.

Speaker 1 And I've been calling it a full circle moment. But what I realize is it's a homecoming.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 1 And I guess that's where I want to start.

Speaker 1 It makes me emotional to think about this because I lived

Speaker 1 for so long

Speaker 1 feeling what you would call psychologically homeless.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Disconnected from my true self.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the feeling that you have

Speaker 1 when you finally feel whole,

Speaker 1 it is unlike anything I've ever experienced.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And I appreciate the honesty and the transparency because

Speaker 2 we do get disconnected. You know, life disconnects us.

Speaker 2 So psychological homelessness is this sense of wandering, being ungrounded, unrooted, confused.

Speaker 2 And we can spend years saying, I don't know, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 And even when I'm waiting for other people to give me the answer, then they're my compass. But I need a compass.

Speaker 2 That's what we talk about with therapy: at some point, people need to internalize it. So it's not just every week, people coming and saying, So, Tama, what do you think? Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 They have to get to the point where I was having this conversation with my sister and I realized I was doing this. And so I, there it is, right now.
You have become your compass, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, how could you tell you were disconnected, or what was it like when you were psychologically wandering?

Speaker 1 It felt like

Speaker 1 there was the physical me

Speaker 1 walking around in my life, doing the things that we all do, getting up, going to work, taking care of the kids, calling friends, watching TV.

Speaker 1 But there was a part of me that was separate, that felt

Speaker 1 I guess you could call it like a knowing,

Speaker 1 just on autopilot, just feeling no spiritual center,

Speaker 1 no connection to values, just existing.

Speaker 1 And so I guess it would be for me, this feeling of separateness.

Speaker 2 Yeah, separated from yourself and then separated from other people because you're surrounded by people, but they don't really see.

Speaker 2 You know, you can fool a lot of people, including yourself, right?

Speaker 2 So a part of homecoming is telling yourself the truth and then living based on that truth that you tell yourself,

Speaker 2 right? Because I can lie to myself that social script is, I'm fine, I'm fine.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I'm in a lot of faith-based communities, and the term is like, I'm blessed, right? It's like, yeah, you can be blessed and also have a lot going on.

Speaker 2 Blessed and lost.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 awakening,

Speaker 2 what I like to say, and I think I say it in the book, is, can we get to the place where we can admit, I miss myself?

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 I just want to make sure that you listening to us just got what Dr. Tama just said to you.
I miss myself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How does somebody who feels like they don't even know who they are?

Speaker 2 Like you hear that a lot. I don't even know who I am.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would love for you to read these six

Speaker 1 questions that can be a sign of what you call psychological homelessness.

Speaker 2 So here are the questions.

Speaker 2 Does the state of your life internally or externally fall short of what you imagined?

Speaker 2 Did you attain what you thought you wanted only to discover that you still feel empty and unfulfilled?

Speaker 2 Do you have a sense of powerlessness or hopelessness?

Speaker 2 Do you lack the energy or motivation to pursue the things that used to matter to you?

Speaker 2 Do you feel there are no words to capture the ache in your heart?

Speaker 2 Do you find yourself crying often or does it seem impossible to cry?

Speaker 1 If somebody resonates with any of those questions. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What should they do?

Speaker 2 Yes. So I want to first say to anyone who connected with those questions,

Speaker 2 you've taken the first step, which is awareness. Because I can't come home to myself if I don't realize I'm wandering.
Yeah. Right.
Sometimes we don't realize it.

Speaker 2 You can, time is passing and you don't know it.

Speaker 2 So the fact that in this moment, as you're listening, you chose to tell yourself the truth.

Speaker 2 That is your mind, heart, body, spirit telling to you, we're ready.

Speaker 2 Right? Because when we don't feel ready, you know, we're

Speaker 2 distracting ourselves, we're busying ourselves, and then truth shows up. So telling yourself the truth is the first step.
And then we think about both self-care and community care.

Speaker 2 And sometimes when we don't feel good about ourselves,

Speaker 2 we neglect ourselves and we erase ourselves. And those can have cultural messages and gender messages and religious messages where people will say self-care is selfish.
Right. You know? And so to say

Speaker 2 to myself,

Speaker 2 I am not just a tool for other people's nourishing.

Speaker 2 I am not just a pathway. for other people to get goodness in life, that I too am a living soul that is deserving of the goodness that I want other people to experience.

Speaker 2 So I like to say, even if you feel like you were never at home with yourself, you can still come home to yourself.

Speaker 2 And that is a reality for a lot of people who grew up with stress and trauma, who perhaps were born into families where there was a lot of stress and trauma.

Speaker 2 So you learned early to be in survival mode, or you learned to play small, or you learned to people please.

Speaker 2 And so so you never got to what i like to call unfold right you never got to connect with the truth of who you are

Speaker 2 i also want to say when we are in unhealthy relationships and on toxic jobs

Speaker 2 in order to survive those you have to disconnect

Speaker 2 It's impossible to be at home with yourself and stay in relationship with someone who is dishonoring you perpetually.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So for somebody that just had like

Speaker 1 a wake-up call,

Speaker 2 then you can have compassion for yourself because people will judge you and say, like, why'd you stay so long? Right. But you weren't connected to you.
You had been disconnected from yourself.

Speaker 2 So you don't even feel the capacity to dream again, to imagine, to believe that better is possible for you and that you are deserving of it and worthy of it.

Speaker 2 And so even if you have never met you, you can come home to you. And that's kind of the good news of this process.

Speaker 1 Wow. There's a West African

Speaker 1 fable. that you tell at the very beginning of the book that I think will give us a visual and a story to lock on to that we can keep coming back to to help keep people in the conversation.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So would you mind telling us that is it a fable?

Speaker 2 What do you yeah, you can say it's a fable. I um I lived in Liberia, West Africa for high school.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to do it in my version of Liberian English, but any Liberians who are listening will tell you, oh, that's not the for true.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 once upon a time, Once upon a time in West Africa, there was one animal expert. And this animal expert knew every animal that was in the bush.
You people say forest, but the real word is bush.

Speaker 2 If he see giraffe, you know to think giraffe. If he see lion, you know to think lion.
So this animal expert is walking one day, so, so, so, and he goes behind one farm.

Speaker 2 And he's passing the farm and behind the farm, he sees so, so, so chickens. In the middle of the chickens is one eagle.

Speaker 2 He said, what the eagle doing with these chickens? He go to the front of the farm and he say, bop, bop. You people say knock, knock.
The real sound, that's bop, bop.

Speaker 2 He say, say bop bop. The man inside say who that? The man outside say that me.
You must open the door and see. So he opens the door.
He say, what your business here?

Speaker 2 He say in the back of your farm, you got so, so, so chickens, but in the middle is one eagle. The farmer laughed.
He said, no, I only have chicken. The animal expert said, I'll show you.

Speaker 2 They go to the back of the farm. He picks up the one he's calling an eagle.
He puts it on his arm. He says, listen to me.
You're not chicken. Chickens can't fly.
You can fly. Go ahead and fly.

Speaker 2 The eagle listened to him, but then he looked down at his chicken brothers and sisters eating their chicken food. He jumped down off the man's arm and he go back with the chickens.

Speaker 2 The farmer starts laughing at the animal expert. The animal expert is vexed.

Speaker 2 He said, I come in to go. He storm away.
The next day, he come back. He comes so soon in the morning, God himself was not awake yet.

Speaker 2 He come and say what? Bop, bop. The man inside say, who that? The man outside say that, me, open the door and see.
He opens the door. He takes him.
He says, what are you doing here?

Speaker 2 He said, I came here because you have one eagle. This time he took the eagle and he climbed to the roof of the barn.
They get to the top of the barn. And at that moment, the sun started to rise.

Speaker 2 The animal expert says to the eagle, all your life, people told you you were a chicken. They told you talk like chicken, act like chicken, walk like chicken, but you're not a chicken, you're an eagle.

Speaker 2 The eagle said to himself, I think if I don't try this thing, this man will come every day bothering me. Maybe today I will try it.
So he spread his wings and he started to fly.

Speaker 2 And I tell you, my eyes could never see him again.

Speaker 2 And that's the whole reason why you and I are here today, because there are those who are listening, who have been treated like chickens, dating like chickens, picking jobs like chickens, but you're not a chicken.

Speaker 2 You're an eagle. So fly.

Speaker 2 Oh, I just got to do that right now.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 That is why

Speaker 1 this book is required reading for everyone. In fact, I would love for you to read this part.

Speaker 2 The eagle made it home. He made it to the truth of who he was.

Speaker 2 This is homecoming. I wrote this book for all of you who at different points in your life have found yourself living like someone you are not.

Speaker 2 You may have started acting different because of how you were treated or what other people told you about yourself or how you saw others acting.

Speaker 2 You have not felt comfortable or safe enough to truly be yourself or to feel at home in your identity.

Speaker 2 The recognized and unrecognized traumas of your past may have taught you to hide your gifts and voice in order to survive.

Speaker 2 This book facilitates your journey back to who you really are so you can own your full identity and fly.

Speaker 1 Beautiful.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 So many of us are hungry for more. Like you have the sense, sense, this can't be it,

Speaker 2 right? Like this, this just can't be it, right? In whatever area of my life. And so

Speaker 2 to know the healing is work, but we're worth it.

Speaker 2 Right. Yeah.
And when we are not at home, we're paying a cost anyway. How much has it cost me to live some other woman's life?

Speaker 2 I don't want to pay it anymore. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It costs you your life.

Speaker 2 Right. It costs you your life.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So let's walk through the process of homecoming. Yes.
I am an eagle in disguise as a chicken. Right.
I come in

Speaker 1 and I want to begin this journey. Yes.

Speaker 2 But I don't know I'm an eagle.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How do we start?

Speaker 2 I start every session with the breath. Okay.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 we're so busy and scattered, and we have been tricked, duped, hoodwinked into believing

Speaker 2 I can prove my worthiness with my busyness.

Speaker 2 And so people can come in, you know, running a million miles and have believed themselves that if I'm so productive, I must be at home.

Speaker 2 But we often are not. And so I invite people to take a moment to tune into their breath, to to inhale in through the nose

Speaker 2 and exhale out through the mouth

Speaker 2 and to begin to scan their bodies, noticing any place where you're holding tension and sending breath throughout the body,

Speaker 2 giving yourself permission to breathe

Speaker 2 and release

Speaker 2 as we set intentions for self-compassion and for clarity.

Speaker 2 And that's how we begin.

Speaker 2 I feel different. Yeah,

Speaker 2 right?

Speaker 2 Tell me the difference. What did you notice?

Speaker 1 I just noticed that my mind went quiet

Speaker 1 and I dropped out of my head. Yeah.
and into my body.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 1 And there was a slowing that kind of went with this knowing. Right.
This feels better than the thoughts that are racing, that it feels better.

Speaker 1 What's it feel like for you?

Speaker 2 Right. It is the homecoming.
And that's a part of the closing our eyes or lowering our gaze is when we're open,

Speaker 2 we're open to all the stimulation around us. And especially if you're a trauma survivor, you are tuned into other people, right? So what are they thinking? What are they feeling? What do they need?

Speaker 1 It's dangerous to relax. It is.
When you're a victim of trauma and discrimination and violence.

Speaker 2 Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 And many of us suppress and run and hide. And that heightens the belief that I can't see myself.

Speaker 2 Right. That keeps us running.

Speaker 2 So instead to give people permission and with the support, because they're not having to face it by themselves, I'm with them to actually tune into what's going on in there and to start to look at what are the signs of my disconnection.

Speaker 2 So that's where the journey begins for us to notice, right? Where is my disconnection showing up in me?

Speaker 1 So if homecoming means feeling connected

Speaker 1 to your most authentic self,

Speaker 1 what are the signs of disconnection?

Speaker 2 So when we are in a place of feeling powerless, hopelessness, despair, those are indicators that we have lost sight of our power and voice.

Speaker 2 Because the truth is we do have capacity, voice, and agency, but we've been in environments where that wasn't welcomed or that wasn't responded to.

Speaker 2 And so then that can leave us feeling like we're empty.

Speaker 1 Yes. Right.
Yes. The word that keeps coming to mind is purpose.
So you hear a lot of people say, I don't know what my purpose is. I need to find a purpose.

Speaker 1 Is that a code word for I am disconnected from myself?

Speaker 2 That is definitely a code word. When people don't have a sense of their purpose, that's an indication of disconnection.

Speaker 1 Yes. And there's a story you tell in the book about being at an event where you're giving one of the bazillion keynote speeches that you give,

Speaker 1 and a survivor of sexual abuse comes up to you. Can you share that story after we hear a quick word from our sponsors?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Awesome.

Speaker 2 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2 Welcome back.

Speaker 1 I'm Mel Robbins and I'm here with the extraordinary Dr. Tama Bryan.
We're talking about her new book, Homecoming, and the process of returning back home to yourself.

Speaker 1 And Dr. Tama was just about to tell us a story of something that happened after she gave a keynote speech at a conference.

Speaker 2 So I was speaking at a conference on sexual assault, and I'm a sexual assault survivor. And I give the presentation, and when it's over, people are responding really well.

Speaker 2 And then I'm standing there in this line, which I know you are used to, and there's a long line of people waiting to kind of share their response or their connection to what you said.

Speaker 2 And I see toward the back of the line this woman who we would say had a bad attitude, right? But I know attitude is despair. But

Speaker 1 hold on a second.

Speaker 1 Attitude is despair?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So a form of depression people often don't recognize is irritable depression.

Speaker 2 Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wow. And people don't respond to compassion with compassion to women with a quote unquote bad attitude.

Speaker 2 But if we said, when I see that woman, she's in despair, maybe then I would respond with compassion.

Speaker 2 But some of us, by family, by culture, by religion, we're taught that sadness is weakness. So we mask our sadness with anger, with bitterness, with attitude, right? But underneath it is the despair.

Speaker 1 It's so true. Yeah.
It's like an iceberg. You see the anger on the top, but there's something so much deeper.

Speaker 2 So much deeper underneath. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you could pick up on the attitude and the energy.

Speaker 2 But I know there's the story there. Yeah.
Right. Especially because when you know you haven't done anything, right?

Speaker 2 So I am feeling on the receiving end of your upset and I haven't done anything so that I know there's a story. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, you know, when it gets to be her place, she's next in the line and she says to me with the attitude, so you're a survivor?

Speaker 2 And I said, look, I just gave a whole keynote on it, right? I say yes. And she says, well, you don't look like any survivor I've ever known.

Speaker 2 So the doubting can be triggering as we think about not being believed.

Speaker 2 But then I go deeper than that

Speaker 2 and decide not to get defensive. Instead, I just let her question slash statement hang in the air.
And I just,

Speaker 2 what I would say, soften, right? I soften and I just look at her and it's like now she can see me.

Speaker 2 Like on the stage with my PowerPoint and my pantsuit, she couldn't see me, right? She could only see the strength and the

Speaker 2 oratorical skills.

Speaker 2 But now, standing in front of her, kind of woman-to-woman, she could see the vulnerability.

Speaker 2 And seeing the vulnerability, she said,

Speaker 2 the only survivors I've ever known were

Speaker 2 fat

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 poor

Speaker 2 like me.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 2 the different ways our surviving shows up. And for some of us who are often overlooked, we coped with anger, with bitterness, with attitude.
But underneath is despair.

Speaker 2 And some of us, we coped with busyness and with what I would call a spirit of excellence. And when you are excellent, people don't notice your wounds.

Speaker 2 And sometimes you don't notice them. You feel you've outrun it.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 But it's there late at night, early in the morning, when you're in certain environments, it shows up that it's still bleeding and you've just gotten busy, but not healed.

Speaker 1 What is healing?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it is the homecoming of accepting and loving

Speaker 2 of myself.

Speaker 2 When I

Speaker 2 accept me,

Speaker 2 I have nothing to prove.

Speaker 2 There's a life coach here in Los Angeles,

Speaker 2 Shannon Yvette. She has a beautiful quote I love, which is, I don't want to be driven, I want to be called.

Speaker 2 And this idea of like when you're driven, your trauma can drive you.

Speaker 2 Like your insecurity can, you know, where you have to constantly prove yourself. And it's this franticness versus when I'm at home, then I can be in flow with what is me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 If you have somebody in your life

Speaker 1 who has that irritable depression. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How do you practice softening and compassion? Because oftentimes if you're around somebody who's constantly irritable,

Speaker 1 who is always angry about or frustrated with something, I have several people that come to mind right now in my own life. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What are some tools

Speaker 1 that we can use to practice more compassion in those moments? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I love that question because I think what we often get pulled into is being combative with them and they're always going to out-combat us

Speaker 2 because they're in warrior mode, right?

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 you know, when they come with the intensity,

Speaker 2 then I respond to the softness. And I would say one of two ways.
One is if I, if I can relate it all, I'll give my own experience, right? And that helps them not to feel judged, right?

Speaker 2 I'm not saying like calling you out because I see what you're doing. It's just saying, you know, there was a time where, and often I have learned transparency is contagious.

Speaker 2 And sometimes then people say, oh, me too, right? I'm like, yeah, you too. Yeah, you too.

Speaker 2 So the testimonial or if I know anything that's been happening in their life to name that because they're responding with all this intensity. Right.

Speaker 2 So then I will say, well, I really wanted to check in because I know this is such a busy time with you, you know, that you're moving, that you're this, that you're that.

Speaker 2 And for us to ask a deeper question, because the how are you gives us finding you. Yeah.
Right. So break out of the script.

Speaker 2 And so instead, with everything you're holding, you know, what's been helping you to manage? Right. Or what do you need? Or how can I help? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I'm speaking to the unspoken.

Speaker 1 If you bring in the chicken and the eagle, can we use that fable to describe that moment where the survivor in the audience

Speaker 1 has this irritable, depressive moment with you?

Speaker 1 What is happening for her in your opinion as a psychologist?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I like to say

Speaker 2 the reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle.

Speaker 1 Say that again?

Speaker 2 The reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle so what area of your life are you settling

Speaker 1 and i would imagine that any area where you feel unsettled

Speaker 2 right there it is there it is so you know what happens is often we are focused so much uh outwardly if only if only my spouse would do this if only my kids would do this if only my supervisor would do this,

Speaker 2 and we don't have the capacity to shift them. So how might you want to shift?

Speaker 1 That's a big ask because it's easier to try to order everybody else around.

Speaker 2 Yes, and frustrating and annoying and draining, but it also

Speaker 2 lets me off the hook because I can keep waiting. for their homecoming, right? Well, everybody is on their own timing.

Speaker 2 And what I like to remind myself is I don't want to keep my healing hostage waiting for the healing of those who harmed me. Oh,

Speaker 2 wow.

Speaker 2 And that's what we're doing when we're like waiting for the apology. Yeah.
It's like, I can't heal till you see what you did to me. Yes.
Like that could be years.

Speaker 1 It might be your whole life.

Speaker 2 It may be your whole life. Right.
They have gone on with their lives. They don't care.
They're not thinking about it. And so I want to take my healing out of their hands.

Speaker 1 And give it back to yourself. Yeah.
And so the process of coming home and the homecoming is the act of self-healing.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 It's about joining back in with yourself.

Speaker 2 And so it is a sacred act. to begin to care for ourselves.

Speaker 2 And the catch is when we talk about behavioral psychology, with behavioral psychology, you start to do the action even if you don't feel it yet.

Speaker 2 Right. So if I say, like, I'm going to wait till I have high self-esteem and then take good care of myself, like, it's not going to work.
Right. So I have to start doing it even when I don't feel it.

Speaker 1 Yes. Right.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Let's take a quick pause so we can hear a word from our sponsors, and we'll be right back with more from Dr. Tama Bryant.

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Speaker 2 Welcome back.

Speaker 1 I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm here with the extraordinary Dr. Tama Bryan.
We're talking about her new book, Homecoming, and the process of returning back home to yourself.

Speaker 1 So the first step is to recognize that you're disconnected from yourself.

Speaker 1 You talked to us about breathing. Yeah.
Close your eyes, come back into your body.

Speaker 1 You've talked also about self-care. What does that mean?

Speaker 2 Self-care. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it is a sacred act to begin to care for ourselves. So self-care is nourishing every part of yourself.
So there is the physical part.

Speaker 2 It is hard to heal and come home to yourself if you're living out of vending machines and drive-through windows.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Because your food affects your mood. And there's nothing life-giving in fake food.

Speaker 2 I like to say, as your grandmother would say, put some vegetables on that plate, put some greens on that plate.

Speaker 2 So fruit and vegetables, I like to think of before I eat something, can I say, I'm eating this because I love myself.

Speaker 2 Then some things I won't be able to put in my body because I actually want to live.

Speaker 2 And we have it flipped where we will call those things the treat.

Speaker 2 I am treating myself by giving myself something that's killing me.

Speaker 2 So to have to flip it, and of course in moderation, because when people hear that, they're like, do you mean I can never have, right?

Speaker 2 And drinking water instead of all the soda, sleep is a big one. It is hard to come home to yourself when you're exhausted.
You know, we are are busy, busy,

Speaker 2 and then all night people are on their phones or, you know, up and can't sleep. And I say, if your idea, and hopefully this is okay to say.
You can say whatever you want.

Speaker 2 Yes. If your idea of relaxing before you go to sleep is watching three episodes of Law and Order,

Speaker 2 I would encourage you to think about why is trauma relaxing to me?

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 That's what it is. I mean, it's harm, crime, violation, attacks, and that's what is going to soothe me into my bedtime.

Speaker 1 So, what is the answer

Speaker 1 that a lot of people give you when they do go into therapy about that connection?

Speaker 2 It's that it's normal and familiar. Some of us grew up in high stress,

Speaker 2 so we think

Speaker 2 calmness is either fake or boring.

Speaker 2 Wow. Right?

Speaker 2 People mistake peace for boring.

Speaker 2 And it's like to come home to yourself, you have to lean into the discomfort

Speaker 2 because it's going to feel unfamiliar.

Speaker 2 I was working with a client, an adult woman and her mom, and they had been disconnected because the mother dealt with addiction and didn't raise her, but they are reconnected now and living together.

Speaker 2 And the adult daughter really wanted her mom to say she loves her and the

Speaker 2 mother uh just said uh to me that just seems fake

Speaker 2 right so she had not grown up with that had not heard it to her it's like something people do on tv

Speaker 2 and so i said to her

Speaker 2 if you mean it

Speaker 2 It's not fake. It just feels like it because you're not used to saying it.

Speaker 1 It is amazing how many people

Speaker 1 don't tell the people that they love that they love them. Right.
And it hadn't occurred to me, it's because they never were told that themselves. Yeah.
And that it might feel forced or not authentic.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Whoa. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that's the importance of us learning each other's love languages because, you know, her response was the response of probably many of her generation, which was you have food on the table or you have a roof over your head.

Speaker 1 Yes. What more do you want from me?

Speaker 2 Right. What more?

Speaker 1 What more?

Speaker 1 I love also that there is a deeply spiritual aspect to this. So what is

Speaker 1 sort of the, how would you describe the difference between therapy

Speaker 1 and spirituality and the work? that you need to do in both areas.

Speaker 2 That's right. So unfortunately, many people who are in the mental health field did not get trained to incorporate spirituality.

Speaker 2 There's research that shows on average, mental health professionals endorse a lower level of spirituality or religiosity than the general public. Really? Yes.
Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 Well, a part of that can go with higher levels of education,

Speaker 2 that a lot of times people with education can feel like they need to prove everything.

Speaker 2 And spirituality is beyond our proving or our being able

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 manipulate it, right? So it's like it's not concrete,

Speaker 2 right? In the field of psychology, the founders in the field were often people of faith, but then there was this move in the field where we wanted to prove we're a science.

Speaker 2 So if we want to prove that we're a science, then we can't talk about anything people find spooky or soft or

Speaker 2 in some other realm. And so there has been a neglect from it from that area.
And the other part of it has been the recognition that some people have been harmed in spiritual spaces.

Speaker 2 So then some therapists will overgeneralize and think that it is all harmful, as opposed to whenever you get people together, you're going to have some good and some bad, some things that are healthy or unhealthy.

Speaker 1 What is your definition of spirituality?

Speaker 2 It is an awareness of the sacred beyond what we can see.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love that definition.

Speaker 1 And now that we're on this topic,

Speaker 1 it occurs to me, how could you possibly heal without pulling faith? Yes.

Speaker 1 And a belief that something that you have not experienced is possible.

Speaker 2 That's it. 100%.

Speaker 2 Because I even say to be a therapist, social worker, life coach, any of these things, you have to have faith.

Speaker 2 And for people to show up, there has to be a faith that there can be more than what I have seen and what I have experienced.

Speaker 2 It's like when I'm counseling people who have only had unhealthy relationships and I have to say, just because this one is better doesn't mean it's good.

Speaker 2 Right? If you're just used to bad treatment, if people like call you back, you're like, oh, they called me back. And it's like, that was nice, but there's more, right? There's more.
Yes.

Speaker 1 yes how do you combine

Speaker 1 the spiritual practice

Speaker 2 with the work to start to heal or as you say repair yourself yeah in the physical space that's right so a part of it is what gives us the motivation to do the work because a lot of times we're operating based on evidence, which is what we've seen.

Speaker 2 So if I've only had bad experiences, my parents abandoned me, this person left me, this person mistreated me. If I believe that is all that exists, then the conclusion would be, I am unworthy.

Speaker 2 That's the only possible right conclusion because victim blaming, self-blaming of if I deserved better, I would have received better.

Speaker 2 And you will hear people blaming other people for being mistreated. You know, they'll say, oh, well, you must have allowed it.

Speaker 2 And so in order for me to come to a different conclusion that I am worthy of what I have not yet experienced, I have to have the belief of the more.

Speaker 1 How the heck do you do that?

Speaker 2 Yes. Your whole life.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You have experienced

Speaker 1 either abuse or mistreatment or discrimination or violence. How do you, when you have evidence that does make you feel unworthy? Because I'm sure you get these DMs and these emails all day long.

Speaker 1 So do we

Speaker 1 of people who so want to believe that they are worthy, that something is better, that they can change your life for the better. And you and I can sit where we are and go, of course you can.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 But for somebody who is sitting in the disbelief,

Speaker 2 how do you cross over to belief? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's a couple of levels. One of them is to get people to reflect on what do they believe all human beings deserve.

Speaker 1 Well, I believe I'm a chicken.

Speaker 1 And all I see are chickens. And I believe I'm on the ground.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? Like we go back to this.

Speaker 1 How do you possibly convince yourself it could be an eagle if you've never seen one?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. So what we connect with is disrupting what we call the cognitive distortions.
So it's not a big word.

Speaker 1 What is cognitive distortion?

Speaker 2 So your false thoughts, the lies. Okay.
The lies you told yourself and the lies other people told you. But let me give you an example.
Okay, please.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 for people who were molested,

Speaker 2 they either were told directly or indirectly that that is their fault, right?

Speaker 2 That it's because they developed early or it's because they shouldn't have been over there or whatever it is, that somehow that's on you. And so we have to

Speaker 2 demonstrate that that is a lie. So how do I demonstrate that that is a lie? Does every girl who develops breast early deserve to be molested?

Speaker 2 Of course not.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 you are not an exception to that rule.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I see.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I can see another lie

Speaker 1 because I'm a survivor of

Speaker 1 that kind of abuse.

Speaker 1 It's the shh,

Speaker 1 don't tell anyone,

Speaker 2 or you'll get in trouble. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And what I learned about that,

Speaker 2 I say from my own journey, is

Speaker 2 I was taught that keeping quiet kept the peace

Speaker 2 until I realized whose peace is it keeping.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 The offender's at peace. The people who don't want to deal with it at peace.
And I, in this little body, am holding all of the war.

Speaker 2 I don't want to hold it anymore. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, this is what we're taught. You're going to upset things.
You're going to upset people. Nobody wants to hear that.

Speaker 2 And there's no peace.

Speaker 1 Whose peace are you keeping?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're You're making it easy for everybody else as it's slowly

Speaker 1 destroying you.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And often then they're gone.
They're doing it to multiple people. Over the course of years, the silence gives freedom for it to continue.

Speaker 1 How do you counsel people who in the process of starting to come back home to themselves, to stop holding the peace for other people around you? Let's just say it's a relationship

Speaker 2 where there's alcohol or drugs.

Speaker 1 you're the one that's not saying anything

Speaker 2 so you're keeping the peace for them right it's scary because you're gonna have to confront things and it's gonna

Speaker 2 require some losses and some people are not gonna be happy with the new you people like the silent you they like the compliant you they like the doormat you who wouldn't like that

Speaker 2 so when you start getting some opinions and start getting your voice and not wanting to do some of the unhealthy things you've been doing,

Speaker 2 not everyone is going to celebrate. And that will be important for you to see who wants me whole and who prefers me broken.

Speaker 2 I will have to start making some adjustments. And there are a range of ways we can do it.

Speaker 2 So like in the work chapter, we say there's one path for if I want to stay on this job and how do I restore myself? And there's another path where I need to leave this job.

Speaker 2 And in in relationship with people, whether romantic or otherwise,

Speaker 2 some I will have to end and some it will have to be different because I'm different and there's there can be a grieving there.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 In the book, you write about having a job. that was very toxic.
Can you describe what it felt like to walk into work when you're in a toxic environment?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 It is so

Speaker 2 stressful in your body, in your mind. And that's even before you can do your work, right? Just the

Speaker 2 Sunday scaries, the driving in, the dreading it.

Speaker 2 It's terrible. And so then, of course, you can't flow in a spirit of excellence because you're, you know, battling all of these other dynamics.

Speaker 2 And so I'd like to encourage people to create a morning ritual so that you show up with your cup already full.

Speaker 1 So can you give us an example?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So first of all, wake up before you have to get up.

Speaker 1 Okay, what does that mean?

Speaker 2 That means don't set your alarm for the time you have to jump out of bed and jump in the shower because now you've already started your day frantic. Yes.

Speaker 2 So, now I'm going into a toxic place already feeling anxious. Okay.
So, you want to wake up a little bit earlier and then figure out what are the practices that would nourish me.

Speaker 2 For some people, that will be listening to music. I like to say, in every season of your life, come up with your theme song.
Yep.

Speaker 2 So, your theme song will get you in the right mindset, Doing some stretching next to the bed, body movement, exercise.

Speaker 2 Some people go for early morning walk, so then they already feel settled and slowed down.

Speaker 2 Meditation and or prayer,

Speaker 2 reading something inspirational can, and that can kind of create the mantra for your day.

Speaker 1 Why is this matter? You know, because I, because when somebody's like, you have no idea, I have this abusive boss and these jerks that I work with and I can't quit and I've got bills to pay.

Speaker 1 Don't sit here, Dr. Tama, and tell me that

Speaker 1 I should freaking stretch. Yes.

Speaker 2 Go for a walk. Are you crazy woman? Yeah.
Why does this matter? I want to introduce you to the part of you that is not an employee. Wow.
You are more than your labor. Oh.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So if we center our full session every week on your boss, then all you are is your boss's worker. And there is a you beyond your boss.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Is that true about being in a bad relationship?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That

Speaker 2 they consume a lot of your energy and time, but you were a person before you met them.

Speaker 2 And whether this continues or not, you're going to be a person.

Speaker 2 And we want to meet that person.

Speaker 2 We want to nourish that person

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 there is more to you than what they see.

Speaker 2 And a part of what they're responding to is they see the vastness of you and don't like it.

Speaker 1 I have one question I forgot to ask you.

Speaker 1 If somebody is thinking, I really should look into therapy.

Speaker 1 What advice do you have about finding a therapist? Yes. About resources for people who cannot afford a therapist.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 For those who don't have access to care, I encourage you to look up your local universities that have doctoral programs. They have training clinics, which are less expensive.

Speaker 1 I didn't mean to hit the table, but that was a darn good suggestion. Yes.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 2 It's, you know, in LA, I teach at Pepperdine University. We have a community clinic and it's a sliding scale.

Speaker 2 You may have an advanced doctoral student who has worked, you know, with clients and they're under supervision, so you're not just out there.

Speaker 2 And then a big one is community care and community programming.

Speaker 2 So a lot of places, for example, the Association of Black Psychologists, they provide online kind of drop-in virtual groups.

Speaker 2 The American Psychological Association has on our website a lot of different resources and self-help tips.

Speaker 2 The American Psychological Association also has a podcast where they cover a number of different topics. So the resources are there.
Excellent.

Speaker 1 And as always, we will link to all of them and to Dr. Bryant's brand new, beautiful, life-changing must-read book, Homecoming, Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self.

Speaker 1 You end

Speaker 1 every therapy session. and every chapter of the book the same way.

Speaker 1 And you also end every episode of the homecoming podcast the same way.

Speaker 1 So I would love to have you to invite you

Speaker 1 to end our conversation with it.

Speaker 2 Beautiful.

Speaker 2 I invite your soul to tell your heart, mind, body, and spirit, welcome home.

Speaker 1 Dr.

Speaker 1 Tama Bryant, Bryant, you are a gift from God to all of us.

Speaker 2 Oh, thank you so much. And I want each of you who are listening to know you're worthy of the journey home.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having me and helping all of us to be the lightpost along the way to get each other home.

Speaker 1 Dr. Tama, that is such a beautiful vision.
Helping all of us to be the lightposts along the way to get each other home.

Speaker 1 That's why I always remind you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life

Speaker 1 and find your way back home to yourself.

Speaker 2 Beautiful.

Speaker 1 Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language.
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

Speaker 1 It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

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Speaker 3 A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.

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