Oprah & Music Star Mike Posner on His 3000 Mile Walk to Happiness

Speaker 1 Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way.

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Wanna have CarMax pick it up from your driveway.

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Speaker 2 We did a cross-country trip from here to New York. Okay.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she was in charge of the radio when she drove. And then I was.

Speaker 3 It was just the two of you. Just the two of us.

Speaker 4 I took a pill in the bees

Speaker 4 to show a Vici, I was cool.

Speaker 4 And when I finally got sober, felt 10 years older. Oh, screw it.
It was something to do.

Speaker 3 There was this year in my life where I was only making music. And I got to this point where there was nothing to write about because my whole life was in the studio.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 So you have to get

Speaker 2 out there and live. Yes.

Speaker 4 You don't want to be high like me, never really knowing why like me. You don't ever want to step off that roller coaster and be all alone.

Speaker 3 You want to pray?

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's have a prayer.

Speaker 3 Dear life, love,

Speaker 3 God, or the universe, we ask that you give us the stories, the conversation, the jokes, whatever is needed to make a difference in someone's life today.

Speaker 3 And we thank you for this opportunity and just this time together. And that we're just in gratitude.
Amen.

Speaker 2 Amen.

Speaker 2 Hi, and welcome to the Oprah podcast. Thank you for spending your valuable time here.
I'm really excited about this episode because, as you just heard, my guest is...

Speaker 2 Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter-producer who literally stepped away from his larger-than-life life to spend six months walking across the entire United States to find happiness.

Speaker 4 What up, Doe? My name is Mike Posner, and I'm walking across America.

Speaker 2 Which is what we're going to be talking about today, how you can find it. And now I know

Speaker 2 not everyone can do that, but the lessons he learned along the way are ones that I believe are going to spark your own pursuit of what everyone is ultimately looking for.

Speaker 2 And that is to feel like you belong, to feel a sense of joy and happiness.

Speaker 2 Of course, you know his hit songs like cooler than me and as we just heard i took a pill and a biza welcome to the oprah podcast thanks for doing this coming all the way here mike my pleasure i saw mike speak a few weeks ago and

Speaker 2 i had never heard your story i'm sorry i didn't hear your story you don't need to apologize i was so moved by your story everyone sitting around me were all crying they had tears in their eyes and i wasn't crying but i was so moved by your spirit.

Speaker 2 I just thought, here is a person who has become a whole human being,

Speaker 2 which is what we're all looking for, is to become whole and to stop the search for perfection. And what you were able to share with the audience in that search was just so moving.

Speaker 2 I thought, you're one of the people. that is obviously carrying the light.
You're one of the light carriers on this planet. And I wanted to know you.

Speaker 2 And the best way to get to know you was to have a conversation. And I thought, I know when I have that conversation, I'm going to wish that I had some microphones there.

Speaker 2 So I called my producers right away and said, There's this guy, Mike Posier. And they went, the Mike Posier?

Speaker 2 And so thank you for moving your schedule around to be here today.

Speaker 3 This is my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 So let's talk about I Took a Pill in Ibiza. When you wrote that,

Speaker 2 what was going on in your life? It just is so

Speaker 2 everything about that song speaks to what it means to want to be famous, trying to be famous, wishing you were famous, all of that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, it was a lot of madness. And

Speaker 3 you've been famous for a long time, so you can identify with

Speaker 3 this.

Speaker 3 I had attained a certain amount of success. Yeah.
And I wasn't able, against my ego's best wishes, to sustain that.

Speaker 3 So I came out of the gate. You were in Duke.
I was in college when you wrote Cooler Than Me. Correct.
So I wrote this song in my dorm room and it became this worldwide hit.

Speaker 3 And it was my first single out.

Speaker 3 So I thought, oh, that's just what happens when I put songs out, you know, with my.

Speaker 2 When your first song is an international hit, you think, oh, that's how you do it.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 3 And so I'm parading around the world and, you know, taking my shirt off at shows and making more money than any 23-year-old should be making.

Speaker 2 And people screaming your name and

Speaker 2 all those things.

Speaker 3 right and what happened was this the next song I put out it wasn't as popular it's still pretty popular but comparison yeah will do a number on you yes so I thought oh gosh that's not good and then the one after that was even less popular by the numbers

Speaker 3 as if this is the only metric of art but this was the metric I was concerned with at you know 2020. 23.

Speaker 3 And suddenly I found my

Speaker 3 schedule had just kind of emptied.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 this trend continued to where my career was basically considered over.

Speaker 3 And people would call me a one-hit wonder,

Speaker 3 I guess, which was true at the time, but

Speaker 3 it was challenging. It challenged my identity because I was so wrapped up in being this young, popular young man.

Speaker 2 How long did that last before it started to fade?

Speaker 3 A couple years. Yes.
A couple years.

Speaker 2 So you're riding high.

Speaker 3 Riding high. I thought this last forever.
Now, in hindsight,

Speaker 3 it dwindling was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Speaker 3 But at the time, I thought, well, what do I do now? You know, who am I?

Speaker 3 And when your sense of identity is challenged, you start to look for who you really are. Yes.

Speaker 3 And so I got to start this journey of, okay,

Speaker 3 if I can't rest in being popular.

Speaker 3 And if I'm really honest, when I was at the top, I wasn't all that happy anyways. I grew up sort of like a shy and depressed kid.

Speaker 3 And I thought, you know, if I got this record deal and I got this fame, that I would just feel more secure in myself.

Speaker 3 I thought this would be concrete evidence that I matter.

Speaker 3 And of course, you know, that's not an external job. That's an internal job.
And so...

Speaker 2 Like so many people now think, if I get this many followers, if I get this much attention, if I only had this thing going for me, everything would be okay. Right.
And

Speaker 2 you and I know it's never the outside. Correct.

Speaker 3 And so this is like everybody has something that they put in front of them in the future

Speaker 3 that they tell themselves is going to make them feel better. Yes.
And so while

Speaker 3 the specifics of my choice, which was fame, hey, you know, I get that, I'll feel better. Yeah, that's singular to me.
Not singular to me, but more specific to me. It's not universal.

Speaker 3 But this action of placing our peace and happiness in the future is a pretty darn universal thing that we humans do.

Speaker 3 And why my story, I think, resonates with people is

Speaker 3 I was, I guess, blessed and privileged enough to actually get all the things.

Speaker 3 I got the fame. I got the attention from the opposite sex.
I got nominated for a Grammy. I got the money.
And I still felt empty. I thought, like, well, like, what's wrong?

Speaker 3 Do I need to get more of it? Like,

Speaker 3 and I can tell you that achieving fame or success in the music industry, while not an inherently bad thing,

Speaker 3 did not change my moment-to-moment experience of life. One iota.

Speaker 3 Like, not one iota. And that was disillusioning.

Speaker 3 It was because when you haven't gotten the thing yeah you can still look forward to getting it yeah and because you think that thing is going to fill you yeah it's somewhere in the future if i get it i have this thing called hope yeah now i was hoping probably the wrong thing but you still have the hope when you get it that hope is replaced by disillusionment yeah so that's where i found myself writing that song

Speaker 2 and you were disillusioned because you saw your friend up on stage

Speaker 2 And you realized what, number one,

Speaker 3 you didn't have that anymore?

Speaker 2 Where were you in the process of your own fame then sure you were looking at a vici i was in the vip section with a vici's manager

Speaker 3 and i said i'm gonna go i'm gonna go in the crowd the main crowd because i want to experience the show up front i lied to him and i was experiencing envy

Speaker 3 and at the time i still drank alcohol so alcohol and envy are a heck of a mix

Speaker 3 What I wanted to do was I wanted to go in the crowd and see if someone would recognize me because I was so empty. Someone that just, even if it's a stranger, someone say, are you Mike Posner?

Speaker 3 Are you that guy who's saying cooler than me? To just give me a sense of I matter. A hit.

Speaker 2 It's like a dopamine hit. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you're right. Give me a sense of I matter.
So you're looking for the I matter from external forces. Yeah.
Correct. That's the thing about fame, I must say.
If you believe it,

Speaker 2 And you rely on it for the definition of who you are, it will eventually let you down.

Speaker 3 That's right. It will.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So tell us about growing up, your childhood in Michigan, because the story that you tell, you told at this conference and also you tell in your TED Talk about your dad wishing for you health and happiness.

Speaker 2 Tell us that story.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was like this strange mantra he was always beating into my head. I grew up in Southfield, Michigan, which borders Detroit.
My parents are both from Detroit.

Speaker 3 My father, like, he would always wait to her alone too. Like, my mom would leave the room, my sister leaves the room, he'd poke his head back in.

Speaker 3 He'd go, Remember, there's two H's in life: health and happiness.

Speaker 3 Health and happiness. He's always saying this, like my whole life.
He wanted me to be healthy and happy.

Speaker 3 And the healthy part, more or less, came naturally or easy to me.

Speaker 3 But the happiness,

Speaker 3 I struggled

Speaker 3 from a very young age. I remember feeling really shy

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 feeling like I didn't belong.

Speaker 3 Feeling like I didn't belong. I remember feeling accepted everywhere.
Meaning, I had friends, I was in social groups, but I never felt like I was really, like I really belonged there.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 something was missing.

Speaker 3 There was an emptiness. There was an emptiness

Speaker 3 from a young age. And I don't know if we all have a version of that emptiness because I only have my experience to compare it to.

Speaker 3 But this emptiness for sure has a giant part in me creating this story that if I get this fame, the emptiness will go away.

Speaker 5 It brings me such joy, dear listener, that you're choosing to spend your valuable time here with us.

Speaker 5 Coming up, what was behind Mike Posner's decision to walk across the entire United States of America from sea to shining sea, nearly 3,000 miles, on foot.

Speaker 5 Plus, he's going to share the five lessons to finding happiness he learned along the way. Even after getting bit by a poisonous rattlesnake, stay with us.

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Speaker 5 Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I thank you for joining me.
I love this inspiring conversation.

Speaker 5 I'm having with Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter and hit producer Mike Posner, who left his life in Hollywood to walk across America on foot, trekking through 13 states over six months.

Speaker 5 And he's here to share the five lessons on finding happiness he learned on his journey. Let's get back to it.

Speaker 2 What made you decide you wanted to walk across America?

Speaker 2 I know you made that decision after you'd written the Ibiza song, and that song went-I mean, it's been downloaded, I don't know how many billions of times. Yeah.
And so

Speaker 2 that song, writing that song, returned you to the whole world that you thought was the world that you wanted to be a part of. Right.
Correct?

Speaker 3 This is a very, very ironic move. You know, you write a song about your career ending.
Yes, I'm just a

Speaker 3 And then it reinvigorates your career. Yes.
So

Speaker 3 yes, I had this second wave. You don't wanna be high like me.

Speaker 6 Never really know a ride like me.

Speaker 3 You don't ever wanna step off that roller coaster and be all alone.

Speaker 2 And were you different with the second wave? Were you more...

Speaker 3 I was a little better. Were you a little better? I was a little better.
Because at that point, I realized, hey, this like

Speaker 3 this success,

Speaker 3 it comes and goes.

Speaker 3 So I had my first rise to success. I thought, oh, this is, this lasts forever.
I'm the man. This is definitely going to go forever.

Speaker 3 The first time it disappeared, I thought, oh my gosh, I blew it. It's over.
And then the second wave, I realized, oh, this is my job. I'm supposed to make art.

Speaker 3 And this thing called popularity, it just does whatever it wants. And my job is to tell the truth in my music and my art and kind of not pay attention to that.
Right. So it, I was a little better.

Speaker 3 A little better. A little better.

Speaker 3 But you asked

Speaker 3 what preceded me making this

Speaker 3 wild decision to walk across the U.S.

Speaker 2 Why did the idea intrigue you, though?

Speaker 3 One is, I was drawn to it because it was so hard.

Speaker 3 Right?

Speaker 3 i knew that for me to have the growth to make this shift of filling up this emptiness to go from external validation to internal validation i'm not gonna achieve that by doing something easy or doing something i already know going to the studio getting another hit like i i need to do something that challenges me did you think you were too soft oh yeah

Speaker 3 i mean inherently and then on the trip i realized how soft i was uh-huh right before i left and So tell me,

Speaker 2 let's explore that a little bit.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 You thought you were too soft. What about you, your life, your upbringing, all of that made you think, I'm too soft.
I need to toughen up. A few things.

Speaker 3 Okay. So one, the external part of my life, like if you just looked at it on paper,

Speaker 3 everything went perfect. I'm talking like I'm a kid who grew up getting straight A's.
Went to Duke University, got a record deal before I even graduated.

Speaker 3 My first song is a hit, even though the second wasn't big, still had another hit, making millions of dollars, nominated, like it was going pretty good on that.

Speaker 2 From the outside, you look like who everybody else is trying to be or wants to be.

Speaker 3 Right. And so I'm Jewish, right? My father, that we talk about, he's Jewish.
Well, we have a tradition in the Jewish lineage to have a bar mitzvah when you're 13. Yeah.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 That's when you're supposed to become a man.

Speaker 3 Now, I went from 13, then I was 31. I didn't feel like a man, even though I had a bar mitzvah.
You know, so I think that we in our culture now lack some rites of passage, especially for our young men.

Speaker 3 Even though I had attained all these things,

Speaker 3 I didn't feel that, I didn't feel like an adult. I realized, I think, even though I didn't want to admit it at that time, my life was really about making it one,

Speaker 3 making myself more relevant, more popular, getting other people to like me more and more, almost maniacally being obsessed with how many people love me,

Speaker 3 how many followers do I have on Instagram, how many comments do I have under this Instagram post? You know, just

Speaker 3 when you really look at it, it's pretty unhealthy, pretty sick.

Speaker 2 Yes, if your life is depending on how many people like you out there and how many comments you get on posts when you don't get them, then it means your life can't be good. Right.

Speaker 2 If you're depending on that to make your life okay, then that means

Speaker 2 your life is never in your own hands.

Speaker 3 Right. 100%.
Now, ironically, my experience has always been

Speaker 3 whenever I'm aligned, that's when the biggest numbers are.

Speaker 3 That's the way it works.

Speaker 2 Yes. That's the way it works.

Speaker 3 So we talked about why I felt soft, but there's another thing. The person we told the story about, Tim Avici, who was in the audience and I mentioned in the song, I took a pill in Ibiza.

Speaker 3 He killed himself.

Speaker 3 And I remember I was on the way to the studio one day and my assistant said, Tim is dead.

Speaker 3 Now here was this guy who had everything I wanted

Speaker 3 and he and it clearly didn't fill him up because he chose, his life was so painful that he chose to end it.

Speaker 3 And I got in my assistant Nick's car that day and we were driving to the studio and there was just one thought looping in my head. It's just,

Speaker 3 I have to walk across America. I have to walk across America.
I have to, there was this feeling like my life at some point is going to end.

Speaker 3 And this dream of yours that, that called to you, that's either going to happen in your life or it's not.

Speaker 3 And there's no more next year this, like,

Speaker 3 he's gone.

Speaker 3 One day you'll be gone too. So

Speaker 3 You want to do it or not? It's funny how death can illuminate life.

Speaker 2 You know, that's what it's here to do. I feel that with every passing, particularly of someone that I know, I know that it's happening

Speaker 2 in our lives to remind us how valuable living really is and to get on with it. That's what it's there for.

Speaker 3 That's what it's there for. Get on with it.

Speaker 2 Get on with it. So you decided to walk across America.
You put it off, you put it off, you put it off, and finally at 31, you did it.

Speaker 3 And it was scary.

Speaker 3 Right away, the people I worked with in the music industry said,

Speaker 3 you can't do this. You cannot do this.

Speaker 3 I said, why?

Speaker 3 You can't just stop making albums. You can't just stop touring.
Like this career that you've spent all this time building, it will not be here when you get back. This is a career-ending decision.

Speaker 3 But this is one of these obstacles that happens on everyone's spiritual journey, which is you start on the path and a bunch of people tell you, don't go on that path.

Speaker 3 Even though the little voice in your heart is going, this is the path. This is the only one.
I have to go.

Speaker 2 Yes, I need to go.

Speaker 3 But everyone in the external world is saying, don't do that.

Speaker 2 For me, that was moving to Chicago.

Speaker 2 Moving to Chicago and actually starting the Oprah Winfrey show there.

Speaker 2 But everybody had said to me when I was in Baltimore, you will fail. You're walking into landmines.
You'll never succeed. You're already a big fish in a little pond.
You need to stay here.

Speaker 2 It's too big for you. It's too big for you.
So I understand this. Yeah.
That was mine. This was yours.
Everybody has the thing. I loved one of the things you said.
And

Speaker 2 you said in the talk that I heard, not all crazy ideas are great. Yeah.
But all great ideas seem crazy.

Speaker 3 All great ideas.

Speaker 3 Not all crazy ideas are great, but all great ideas are crazy.

Speaker 3 Great ideas are crazy.

Speaker 2 Or seem crazy to somebody else. They're like, well, that's the craziest thing I ever heard.

Speaker 3 You're going to

Speaker 3 cross America? When you decide to change your life for the better, don't expect a whole bunch of people to roll out a red carpet for you or, you know, cheer for you. Often it's the opposite.

Speaker 3 And I think life is perhaps rigged in a way that we make a decision

Speaker 3 and sometimes it tests how serious we are.

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. That's what it's there for.
And that's actually lesson number one. So you walked to, made the decision to walk across America in search of happiness.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 And that was the first lesson of happiness? Yes. Is that the crazy ideas?

Speaker 3 Yeah, not all crazy ideas are great, but all great ideas are crazy. Okay.

Speaker 2 And so you decided to begin your journey on the coast of New Jersey.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 2 And you say you learned a second lesson on finding happiness right at the start. What was the start? First of all, you had to drive to New Jersey to get there, right?

Speaker 3 Right. And then you realize that's a long,

Speaker 2 that's a long way.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so

Speaker 3 I had fears and doubts of my own, like,

Speaker 3 am I going to permanently damage my body?

Speaker 2 Because how many years did you put it off before you actually do it? Five years. Five years.
Okay. Five years.
Now you actually are going to do it.

Speaker 3 Now I'm going.

Speaker 3 I announced to my friends, my family, my audience, I'm going to do this. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 we're driving across the country and it's like, I'm looking out the window and it's like, this thing just keeps going. You know, it's like.

Speaker 2 It's a long drive.

Speaker 3 I'm like, it's a day just in Kansas and we're going 70 miles per hour.

Speaker 3 And I have all the fears and doubts that I always had which were am I going to damage my body

Speaker 3 and then the fears and doubts about

Speaker 3 of of my agents and managers yes I let come inside my brain is it true that I won't have a career when this I have a lyric in one of my songs I say don't think other people's thoughts I was thinking other people's thoughts too like I'm gonna ruin my career and then lastly the biggest fear of all is

Speaker 3 what if I fail like what if I risk it all? I hurt my body, and I don't even make it. So it's like, I'm not even leaving to walk across America.
I'm leaving with a chance to walk across America.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm driving across, and the gravity starts, what I'm going to attempt to do starts to set in.

Speaker 3 But on April 15th, 2019, I stood off the coast in New Jersey. It was really important that I started in the water.
I wanted to walk coast to coast. The saltwater waves are crashing on my back.

Speaker 3 I have my father's swimming trunks on.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I took a step.

Speaker 3 And right when I took that step, all these fears and doubts about what might happen if I chose to do this, they disappeared because I was doing it.

Speaker 2 And that's lesson number two.

Speaker 3 That's number two. Lesson number two is step one is take one step.

Speaker 2 Oh, I love that so much. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Step one is take one step. Because these fears and doubts, they're not a signal that you're on the wrong path.

Speaker 3 They're a signal that you're on the right path.

Speaker 3 If you didn't have them, you'd be playing it too safe. Yeah.
You'd be in the sandbox of your life. You'd be in your comfort zone.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 now some fear, like, you know, if a tiger came behind us, that's good fear, right? Listen to that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But this psychological fear, like our friend Eckhart told us, it's psychological fear about a made-up version of the future that doesn't exist anywhere but your own head.

Speaker 3 In my case, you know, what if I hurt myself? What if I fail? These are all made-up scenarios.

Speaker 4 Day two complete.

Speaker 7 I broke my camera.

Speaker 3 How long do you think we walked today? 11. This is another obstacle that life puts in front of you to test you.
How serious are you? Finished with the first week of the walk.

Speaker 3 And part of the sweetness of the joy you're going to find is on the other side of that fear.

Speaker 1 It's gonna be cold and heavy. Yeah, it's gonna feel great.

Speaker 3 That's the dunk. Now we're in Ohio.
Feeling it, not pretending it's not there. More great memories, more great people,

Speaker 3 more great experiences. And then getting on with it anyways.
Indiana state line.

Speaker 2 Get a zoom. You know, those concerns about your body are actually real.
I mean, I walked 25 miles.

Speaker 2 I walked a marathon once when I was much younger, 26 miles. And you are aching and you are sore and you are, you know, the balls of your feet are, you know,

Speaker 2 burning. And it took you three months to get from New Jersey to Colorado.
You could see the Rocky Mountains when lesson number three showed up. That's right.

Speaker 3 And it's right.

Speaker 2 It got real. It got real.

Speaker 3 It hurt horribly. And you know what? And the hurt doesn't go away.
No, and that's why

Speaker 3 I want want to share the lessons with your audience enough to go do this because

Speaker 3 I'm laughing now, but when I had walked across Indiana, Illinois, and I'm into Missouri during a heat wave. A sunrise.
And I'm into Kansas, and

Speaker 3 I could barely stand up in the morning. And for me, you know, the spider web that I had got myself tangled up in in my old life,

Speaker 3 I had to go through this metamorphosis in a painful way. It was just my path.

Speaker 3 But it's not needed.

Speaker 3 Physical pain is not a requirement for spiritual growth.

Speaker 3 For sure not.

Speaker 3 But in my case, it was my path.

Speaker 3 And I was in this place where

Speaker 3 my body every day would speak very clearly. You know, usually you should listen to your body, but it would speak to me very clearly.
Stop. What you're doing is hurting me, Mike.

Speaker 3 But spirit was speaking to me even more clearly.

Speaker 3 And it was saying, keep going.

Speaker 2 Keep going.

Speaker 2 So I had that became your mantra.

Speaker 3 Keep going. Keep going.
Still this. Keep going.

Speaker 7 What up, though?

Speaker 3 Just made it across the state line. Across Missouri.
I'm now in Kansas. Woo! Let's go.
I walked across this, you know, state Missouri during a heat wave, and I walked across Kansas.

Speaker 3 I walked into Colorado. I'd walked 1,797 miles since that first step.

Speaker 3 when ah, you know, this pain shot up my left leg.

Speaker 3 And that's when I heard a sound I didn't want to hear.

Speaker 3 I knew what the pain was. I realized I'd just been bitten by a poisonous rattlesnake.

Speaker 5 Time to take a quick break. When we come back, Mike Posner's walk across America comes to a life-threatening halt the moment a poisonous rattlesnake bit his leg.
Can you imagine?

Speaker 5 Stick around because you'll want to hear the inspiring life lesson he learned in that harrowing moment. That's next.
Welcome back to this episode of the Oprah Podcast.

Speaker 5 I'm joined by Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter and producer Mike Posner, whose hits like Cooler Than Me and I Took a Pill in Ibiza shot him straight to stardom right out of college.

Speaker 5 And I must say, he's a joy to talk to. A joy.
We're going to hear what Mike learned about himself when he became famous. He was actually unhappy.

Speaker 5 So in an unconventional way of searching for happiness and inspiration, he decided to walk across America, coast to coast. Let's get back to Mike's fascinating story.

Speaker 3 Now at first I'm kind of playing it off, you know.

Speaker 2 And it's just you walking?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 I had invited my audience.

Speaker 3 I said, hey, if you find me, you can walk with me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 people would come from all over the U.S. And sometimes sometimes they just want a picture with me, no problem.
Sometimes it was like a scavenger hunt for them.

Speaker 3 You know, like it would be college kids on a weekend. Let's go see if we can find Posner.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 but sometimes it would just be people that didn't have anyone else to talk to.

Speaker 3 And I didn't really have anyone else to talk to either. So we would we would join.

Speaker 3 I think each

Speaker 3 attempting to alchemize our pain into beauty. So that particular day there were were two men with me, and then I have my walk manager who would go ahead of me each day.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so there were three people there,

Speaker 3 and they're all freaking out. I'm making jokes.
I'm like, don't worry, man. I'm thinking this is like a beast thing, you know.

Speaker 2 And did you actually see the rattlesnake?

Speaker 3 I didn't see it. Never saw it.
I never saw it. There's two ways to get bit by a snake, Oprah.
One is if you're messing around with antagonizing it, which I didn't do.

Speaker 3 The other is to surprise surprise it. Yeah.
And so it was the latter for me.

Speaker 3 Now they're saying, we got to call 911. I say, okay.

Speaker 3 And then they're like, we have no service. Somebody else.

Speaker 2 We have no service.

Speaker 3 Uh-oh. Now, at this point, the

Speaker 3 darkness is starting to creep in from the edges of my awareness. It was just dark, and then it was black.
I was gone. I was just gone.
And then I would wake up and I'd see, oh my gosh, I'm here.

Speaker 3 I got a rattle snake bite.

Speaker 3 And one of the gentlemen said, I ran up the road. I got a bar service.
I called 911 and he was able to keep connection with her. And he had the phone.
I said, let me speak to them.

Speaker 3 So he hands me his cell phone. And I said to

Speaker 3 the voice on the other end of the phone, I said, to dispatch him, am I going to die?

Speaker 3 Because at this point, now I'm realizing this isn't the beast thing. The voice on the other end of the phone said,

Speaker 3 I don't know, sir. I end up spending three nights in the ICU, and they have this thing called anti-venom.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I just did

Speaker 2 a show about

Speaker 2 near-death experiences and had

Speaker 2 Jeremy Renner on talking about when he experienced, you know, the other side.

Speaker 7 To me, it is a just collective divinity of love. Love is the only thing that you take with you when you die.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 That's so

Speaker 7 it cannot exist. It rides in the coattails of love like everything else does in life.
Nothing else freaking matters outside what you love and love unequivocally. It is in perpetuity.
Does not change.

Speaker 2 Wow. Love is the only thing you take with you when you die.

Speaker 2 Did you experience the other side? Did you have a near-death experience?

Speaker 3 I wish I did. Yeah.
And maybe I didn't get near enough. I don't know.
All I know is it went black. Yeah.
And there was nothing. There was no light.
I didn't have guardian angels.

Speaker 3 I've experienced some of those things

Speaker 3 in other ways. Breath work, psychedelics.

Speaker 3 But this one, it was black, Oprah. It was black.

Speaker 3 I wish I had that experience.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I wish Avichi was there saying, hey, Mike, it was all good.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It wasn't that.

Speaker 3 It just went black. And

Speaker 3 I'm in the ICU

Speaker 3 and my legs to swell the size of an elephant trunk. Yeah.
And I,

Speaker 3 I go from walking 24 miles a day to now I can like barely, I have a walker to go to the bathroom and someone's got to help me and make sure I can stay up. I can barely walk.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, now, like, now what am I?

Speaker 3 Right. And they send me home after several days.

Speaker 2 And so they use the anti-venom. You know, you're going to live now.
Yeah. But your leg isn't, your leg is swollen the size of an elephant and you're still in pain.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I thought, you know, this word anti-venom, I'm like, oh, this is a nice word. I'm thinking it's like a cure.
Yeah. You know, like tomorrow I'm back on the train.

Speaker 3 They're like, no, this just makes it so you get to stay alive and hopefully keep your foot. So I got both of those things.
But the doctor said, you're going to be messed up for a while.

Speaker 3 I said, how long? He's like, months. I'm like, it can't be months.
I'm walking across the mirror. He goes, I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 3 It's months. You got bit by a rattlesnake.

Speaker 3 So I go home

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 I start to experience some conflicting feelings. I get sent home with a walker

Speaker 3 and sort of an uncertain future. And there's part of me that loved this part.

Speaker 3 One,

Speaker 3 because

Speaker 3 it was nice to be not in all that heat, Oprah. It was nice to be not be walking 24.
It was nice to be in air conditioning. It was nice to be around other humans.

Speaker 3 Most of this time, I'm alone out there.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I really liked that. And even though my left leg was in bad shape, the rest of my body was really enjoying the rest.
Two,

Speaker 3 I got more famous than ever by getting bit by this dog on rattlesnake.

Speaker 3 Now, like, my last decade of my life, I've been like clawing desperately, like, you know, crawling around West Hollywood, trying to find whatever morsel of fame I can find and put in my veins.

Speaker 3 Then I walk away from it.

Speaker 3 I get bit by the snake, and I start to get more fame than ever. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so there's a part of me, it didn't disappear, Oprah. The part of me is still there.
Like you did your intro, you said, Mike seems like a whole human being. I don't know if that's true.

Speaker 3 I'm no, I'm more whole than I used to be, but all of these little things, they're all still there. I just know

Speaker 3 not to give him the steering wheel of my life anymore.

Speaker 2 Got it.

Speaker 3 Got it. So

Speaker 3 this part of me is like having a ball. It's going, dude, you're

Speaker 2 getting all the attention. All the everything I've remembered.
And also, if you stop right then, people would absolutely understand. You wouldn't be considered a quitter.
You'd be considered,

Speaker 2 you got bit by a rattlesnake. What are you supposed to do? Right.

Speaker 3 Yeah. This is like such a good reason to quit that most people wouldn't consider you a quitter.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And then you learned the lesson number three.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but this is like, you know, know, for once in my life, I'm not doing this for most people or other people. Yeah.
This is about me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 even though they wouldn't consider me a queer, I would know

Speaker 3 that I had a thousand more miles to walk. What up, though? My name is Mike Posner.

Speaker 2 And three weeks ago, I was bit right here

Speaker 4 by a fucking rattlesnake.

Speaker 3 And there was no way for me to become who I knew I was supposed to be

Speaker 3 and to maybe have a chance to taste that second H that dad wanted, the happiness,

Speaker 3 than to walk that remaining thousand miles. I mean, this was straight from, you call it life, God, spirit, your higher self intuition was like, I'm supposed to finish this.

Speaker 3 And even though on the outside, it looks like I'm not. Yeah.
You know, and.

Speaker 2 So you have a chance to be the person that you could be most proud of.

Speaker 3 Correct. Correct.
It's not about whether other people, people say, say, well, weren't you, weren't you already proud of yourself? You had already accomplished so much.

Speaker 3 It wasn't about

Speaker 3 the stat sheet, the highlight. It was this calling that I knew was there.
And it's, you're going to take the call or not?

Speaker 3 And there's no book you can read about it.

Speaker 2 Okay, so let me read this off. After six months, three days, 13 states, 2,851 miles, 5.7 million steps.
5.7 million steps. Those of us who are just trying to get 10,000 every day.

Speaker 2 You were able to dive face first into the Pacific Ocean near Bennes Beach. And you described that moment as an unfamiliar emotion.
What was that unfamiliar emotion?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so

Speaker 3 after I learned the lesson before, which is your reasons to quit are excuses in disguise. So I decided, you know, I'm going to walk these thousand more miles.

Speaker 3 And I walked across Colorado and Arizona and California. I get in that ocean, like you said.
And this strange feeling washes over me. I expected accomplishment.

Speaker 3 It wasn't accomplishment.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You would think after walking the 2,800 and whatever the 51.
51 miles. 2010.

Speaker 3 I'm not counting them. 2,800.
Don't worry. 2,851.
I know. I want to get out of here.
I'll never forget that number. 2,851.

Speaker 3 Over when you're on mile 1,901, you know exactly how many more you have to go.

Speaker 2 So if you were 2,851,

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 2 realized you think you're going to feel a sense of accomplishment. You did feel some of that, right?

Speaker 3 It was a little different. Like I'm in the water and I felt this strange feeling that I never like

Speaker 3 maybe ever felt before.

Speaker 3 And the closest word I could come to it is happiness.

Speaker 3 But I think it's the happiness that dad was talking about. Not the happiness of like eating the chocolate chip cookie.
Oh, this tastes good.

Speaker 3 The happiness that comes from playing a part in the evolution of your own soul. Wow.

Speaker 3 So that's when I learned this fourth lesson. I say, true happiness comes from growth.

Speaker 3 True happiness comes from growth. It doesn't come from getting other people to like you.
It doesn't come from accomplishing anything on the outside.

Speaker 3 It comes from playing a part in the evolution of your own soul and knowing, hey,

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 played a part in becoming who I am now. And who I am now,

Speaker 3 I'm proud of

Speaker 3 because it's not who I used to be.

Speaker 3 A goal is a funny thing, right? A goal is like this thing we place in the future and we think we get there,

Speaker 3 things are going to be different.

Speaker 3 Of course, the goal actually means nothing. It's who you become on the way.

Speaker 3 And I had become someone different.

Speaker 3 I'm not saying I'm perfect because I'm not,

Speaker 3 and far from it, but I'm not who I used to be.

Speaker 3 And that's where this true happiness comes from: growth, this self-respect.

Speaker 3 It comes from growth.

Speaker 2 What was lesson number five?

Speaker 3 So, now I'm stepping out of the water

Speaker 3 and I got the health

Speaker 3 and I got the happiness,

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 3 I didn't have my dad anymore

Speaker 3 in this

Speaker 3 form.

Speaker 3 Two years before I started this wild journey,

Speaker 3 my dad got glioblastoma, brain cancer,

Speaker 3 and He passed away before I started.

Speaker 3 And so he...

Speaker 2 You had told him you were going to do the walk, though, right?

Speaker 3 I had not because I hadn't decided. Oh, okay.
But I had the idea and I knew I wanted to do it years before he ever got sick. Yeah.
So I had the idea and the inspiration.

Speaker 2 So what I was really asking was, had you shared the idea with him?

Speaker 3 I don't think I ever had. Okay.
I don't think I ever had.

Speaker 2 So he didn't know that this was a goal of yours to do this info.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 5 Coming up after a short break, Mike Posner's fifth and final lesson on finding happiness. He learned this lesson while walking across America.
Stay with us. You're listening to the Oprah podcast.

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Speaker 5 Welcome back to the Oprah podcast. I'm with Grammy nominee Mike Posner, who's sharing how, after rocketing to fame, he hit rock bottom and literally began to walk toward happiness one step at a time.

Speaker 5 I think these are lessons we can all apply to our lives, so let's get back to it.

Speaker 3 Lesson number five is don't wait because he never got to see me

Speaker 3 step onto this path, both metaphorical and literal,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 witness me being truly happy in the way I'm describing it now.

Speaker 2 And so as the participant in the evolution of your own soul. That's right.

Speaker 3 Yes. That's right.
We are not little flakes of dust getting blown around by macroeconomics or our own emotions or whatever happens in our life. We are we are creators.

Speaker 3 We're not just here to deal with what's happening to us. We're here to create our own reality.

Speaker 2 You know, I love you saying that you're not the same person.

Speaker 2 I can't imagine the experiences and the encounters that you would have, but you, I know that there was one that you were walking across like an Indian. Yeah.
Yeah, to share that.

Speaker 3 I was in the wallapai reservation.

Speaker 3 It's post-snake bite

Speaker 3 in the Arizona.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm actually on Route 66.

Speaker 2 So is every day more painful than it was before because you're still healing?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, every day is more painful than before just from

Speaker 3 doing it, just from the steps.

Speaker 2 Just from the steps.

Speaker 3 And but this funny thing happens. So the pain increases linearly.
So every day is a little more painful than the day before. But your consciousness,

Speaker 3 the space in which the pain and your own emotions are occurring is enlarging exponentially.

Speaker 3 So, to put it another way,

Speaker 3 every day the pain gets worse, but every day you care less that you're in pain. Wow.
Pain is, it's the physical sensation is more, but it's a smaller percentage of your overall awareness.

Speaker 2 Because your awareness is expanding.

Speaker 3 Correct. Correct.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 this is sort of, I'm in this

Speaker 3 mindset more or less.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm on Route 66. I'm near the end of my day so I'm maybe on mile 21 of the day.

Speaker 2 So you'd walk from 5 to 5?

Speaker 3 You'd walk 12 hours a day or what was scheduled? I'd start around 5 a.m. I'd do 8, I'd take a break.
This was fun. I played games with myself.
I do eight, I'd take a break.

Speaker 3 Then I do another 8.

Speaker 3 Now it's around

Speaker 3 maybe

Speaker 3 11, 12 and that.

Speaker 2 You've done 16 miles away.

Speaker 3 Now I'm at 16. Now I take another break.
Okay, so now I got 16. My next segment, I'm going to do four.

Speaker 3 Well, I already did two, eight, so four is easy, right? So now I do four. Now I should be around 1:30 p.m.
I've done 20 miles. And every day I would say,

Speaker 3 now I'll do a victory lap. I'd do four more.

Speaker 3 So I would set my goal at 20 every day.

Speaker 3 I never walked 20. I'd walk 24.

Speaker 3 But this feeling of doing doing more than I said I was going to do fueled me as opposed to I'm doing just what I was supposed to do. So I would make my goal 20, I'd do 24.

Speaker 3 Instead of saying my goal is 24 and doing 24, these little things gave me just a little more juice. I'd play games with the days of the week.

Speaker 3 I had psychological ties with each day of the week from school. Monday, I hate Monday.
Tuesday, I hate Tuesday.

Speaker 3 Friday, I like Friday. Saturday, I like Saturday.
Sunday, I like Sunday because those are

Speaker 3 from high school, because Friday meant the weekend's coming. So I would make my day off Thursday.

Speaker 3 Friday is the first day of the week. Even though it's the first day of my walking week, it still felt like the last day of the week because of these old psychological ties from high school.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, oh,

Speaker 3 Friday, easy.

Speaker 3 So I finished Friday. I already got one done.
Saturday, I love Saturdays too. Saturday's done.
By the time I get to Monday, I'm already halfway done with the week. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 So I play these little, little games. Now, going back to the reservation, so I'm on the wallapie reservation.
I don't remember what day it was. Don't ask me that.

Speaker 3 So I'm walking, and I always walked into traffic. This way you can see that because the most dangerous thing actually isn't rattlesnakes or bears.

Speaker 2 Because being hit by a car.

Speaker 3 It's cars. So these cars are coming at me.
You want to be able to see them. So if they're on their phone or something and they creep over that white line, you can jump out of the way.

Speaker 3 So that's why I would always walk into traffic. So I'm on the left side of the road.

Speaker 3 And on the right side of the road, I see a Ford F-350 pull over to the side. Now, immediately, I started to feel like this old not belonging fear.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't an angry... person getting out of the car.
It was, I saw like a little

Speaker 3 two pairs of van skateboard sneakers. You hop out.
I see it's, I want to say a kid. He wasn't a kid, he's probably about 21.
He's a kid to me because I was 31.

Speaker 3 So this young man, and he dangerously plays frogger and crosses Route 66 over to my side. I'm like, oh gosh, please don't get hit.
Right. He comes over to my side of the road.

Speaker 3 And I meet this young man. I say, hi, what's your name? He says, Rowan.

Speaker 3 And we had a little bit of small talk.

Speaker 3 He turns to go back to his car. I says, nice to meet you.
Takes a picture.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so, like, spirit, or, you know, someone's telling me, like, there's

Speaker 3 more to this, right? I don't need to tell you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Did you, did you think he just came out to look for you or he's looking for

Speaker 3 I was in my ego. Yeah, yeah.
So my ego is going, oh, he's here to get a picture with me or something, right?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he wasn't there for that reason at all. So there's more.
And I remember this question that my friend taught me: if you're ever trapped in the small talk and you want to go deeper, ask this question.

Speaker 3 I said, If I pray for you, what should I pray for?

Speaker 3 He takes a second and his eyes go down to the ground.

Speaker 3 He said, Mike,

Speaker 3 five years ago,

Speaker 3 my father died from drinking.

Speaker 3 And three years ago,

Speaker 3 my only sibling, my big brother, who was like my rock,

Speaker 3 he died from drinking.

Speaker 3 And three months ago,

Speaker 3 my mom died from drinking.

Speaker 3 So if you pray for me,

Speaker 3 pray for my sobriety

Speaker 3 because I'm the only one left.

Speaker 3 He turns around, he says, Wait.

Speaker 3 He darts across the road again, scaring the daylights out of me. He reaches in the F-350,

Speaker 3 pulls out this little leather satchel, comes back across Route 66, presses it in my palm, and he says,

Speaker 3 Sweet grass and sage,

Speaker 3 this will keep you safe on our land.

Speaker 3 Before I even understood what was happening, he was back in his car. He drove away the west the way I was going and he put a fist out the window like this.

Speaker 3 His way of saying keep going.

Speaker 3 He disappears into the horizon. I'm just like you are now.

Speaker 3 I'm crying.

Speaker 3 He wasn't there to get something from me. He was there to give something to me.

Speaker 3 And often these people that we

Speaker 3 think are challenging to us,

Speaker 3 they're there to give us some kind of gift.

Speaker 3 And it's like, well,

Speaker 3 he's on the walk of his life and he has not given up.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to do the same to the best of my ability.

Speaker 2 Thank you for sharing that story. Thank you for sharing

Speaker 3 who you've become

Speaker 2 and helping us all to feel that we can get a little closer to being whole ourselves. I hear you're going to sing another song? Yeah, I would love to.

Speaker 3 Okay. I would love to.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 What's the song and what's the story behind the lyrics?

Speaker 3 Okay, so this song is called A Beautiful Day. Ooh.
It's called A Beautiful Day.

Speaker 2 I hope he's kept his sobriety.

Speaker 3 I hope so too.

Speaker 2 But you have no way of knowing because you didn't exchange numbers or...

Speaker 3 We didn't. We exchanged sage and sweetgrass.
That's great, you know, that's great. I have a feeling he's doing okay.

Speaker 2 I hope so. Take us out, okay.

Speaker 4 It's a beautiful day to be alive,

Speaker 4 February in LA.

Speaker 4 Such a vibe.

Speaker 4 Got a hundred different moods from one day to the next,

Speaker 4 and I've seen a lot of things, but still I know I'm blessed.

Speaker 4 Cause life is not a checklist. I'm sorry to my exes.
Keep checking all my messages. Done being a pessimist.
The old way wasn't working. I know I'm far from perfect.
I gotta put that work in.

Speaker 4 It's time for a change. It's a beautiful thing

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 3 alive

Speaker 4 it's a beautiful day

Speaker 4 to be

Speaker 4 alive

Speaker 4 so if you've got love then give it away here's to the joy in the pain it's a beautiful day

Speaker 4 to be

Speaker 4 alive

Speaker 4 Now there's a part of me underneath the part that I let people see.

Speaker 2 Mike Posner is already off on his next great adventure. This time hiking the Continental Divide Trail.

Speaker 3 I'm here packing for the Continental Divide Trail.

Speaker 2 That is the natural ridge that splits America's river system. On one side, water flows to the east, on the other, to the west, out to the Pacific Ocean.
It stretches 3,000 miles from Canada to Mexico.

Speaker 2 Mike says it's one of the most challenging and grueling trails in the United States and takes about four months to complete. This time, his intention is to unite people in a divided world.

Speaker 2 He says he's fueled by and walking toward love.

Speaker 4 So if you've got love, then give it away. Here's to the joy and the pain.

Speaker 2 So we're going to be averaging about 30 miles a day.

Speaker 3 That's an ultra-marathon every day for 100 days.

Speaker 3 It's a beautiful day

Speaker 3 to be

Speaker 3 alive.

Speaker 2 Wow. Thank you, Mike Posner.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you for sharing your music, for sharing your journey, for sharing your soul with us. You are just, you are the light.
Thank you. Thank you, brother.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I feel the same about you.

Speaker 2 You can find Mike's online community. It's called InnerBloom at MikePosner.com.

Speaker 2 And what are y'all doing over there?

Speaker 3 You know, we just have a call basically

Speaker 3 every Thursday. It's a free call.
The community is free.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 there's just people trying to join in the light.

Speaker 3 So it's about an hour or two call. We do music, we dance, we do breath work, we do meditation.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 people are trying to walk the path. We talked about earlier the path when you first get on it is lonely.
So I try to make a space for all of you. It's building a community.

Speaker 3 It's a space for miracles and transformation. That's wonderful.

Speaker 2 Inner bloom. My to you listening and watching our conversation.
I think Mike's five lessons are:

Speaker 2 listen, words to live by. I'll see you next week.

Speaker 3 Go well.

Speaker 2 You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week.
Thanks, everybody.

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