Life Happens. Are You Going To Be Ready for It?

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr.
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RamseySolutions.com slash tour. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here.
Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming

to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait.
Get

your tickets at RamseySolutions.com slash tour.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr.
John Deloney, Ph.D. in counseling, host of the Dr.
John Deloney Show, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today.
Jackson's with us in Vancouver. Hi, Jackson.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there.
Thanks for having me on today. Sure, man.
What's up? Well, you know, I'm a big fan of your guys' show, so I thought I'd give you a phone call. I've been making some pretty good money working up here I work as a heavy duty mechanic and last year I made just shy of two hundred thousand dollars a year and I'm debt free but I don't have any sort of a financial plan and um I I feel like I make too much money to not have some sort of a plan and I don't want to feel like a fool who squanders a fortune.
Good for you. Very wise.
How old are you? I'm 25 years old. Some of the guys you work with have never even had the thought that you've had.
They spend their whole life working their butts off, and thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday, and got nothing to show for it. So you're very wise.
You got a huge head start at 25. Congratulations.
Just asking the question puts you in the top 5%, dude. Yeah, that's kind of why I'm trying to ask the question, because I set a pretty high standard for myself.
No, it's not that high, but it's... I mean, but you're way ahead of the game.
You're way ahead of the game. So, you know, what you're finding is this, and the way you pose the questions very wise.
Dr. Stephen Covey wrote a book that was vastly popular for about 30 years.
It was on the New York Times and on the bestseller list for years and years and years called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The number one habit of the seven was that highly effective people are proactive.
They happen to things instead of it happening to them.

And so that's the position of your question.

You are now going to happen to your money instead of it leaving and you having no idea where it went.

And John Maxwell used to say that a budget is people telling their money what to do

instead of wondering where it went.

And so instead of saying ready, fire, aim, we're going to say ready, aim, fire. And so we're going to write it down before the month begins where every dollar is going to go using the every dollar app, the world's best budgeting app.
It's free for you to download and, uh, you know give every dollar an assignment. Contract with yourself.
If you have a spouse, contract with your spouse that this is, we're in agreement. This is what we're going to do with the money.
And then we're going to make the money do that. I'm often asked by reporters, what's the number one mistake people make with money? And the answer, they think it's going to be credit cards or student loans or something.
No, the answer is they're not intentional. And so we're going to flip this for you and say you're going to become very intentional, and then that's going to lead you to get out of debt, to save, to invest, to have the proper insurance in place.
It's going to lead you to make smart decisions because you're actually paying attention instead of a sleep at the wheel.

So that's where we start. Because right now, you just throw the money in the account, and then when it's empty, you quit spending.
Yeah. I mean, for the most part, I don't really, like I get my paychecks, and I pay my bills with it, and then I don't really look at my account all that much.
I just kind of know there's always a good chunk of change in there. And it usually fluctuates between $15,000 and $25,000, just kind of up and down from there.
But it's not really going ahead from there because I'm kind of just living. And I need to make some sort of a plan, I thought, because I'm making way too much money.
Again, you have the symptoms of someone who's getting ready to spend. You're saying the words of someone who's getting ready to change their life.

You have a healthy disgust.

You're like, I make too much money.

I work too hard to be this broke.

I'm dissatisfied.

And so you're ready to change.

That's perfect, man.

Absolutely.

Jackson, if you could close your eyes and imagine 30- old Jackson, what would your life look like? Would you have a house? Would you have your own business where you got two employees working for you? What would that look like? I guess if I were to close my eyes and dream about it, it'd probably be, yeah, a house and some sort of a business. I work as a mechanic, so some sort of a mobile mechanic truck.
Awesome. That's kind of the dream for me.
So most people have these things that float in and out of their heads. You, you're laying under a truck turning wrenches.
You got somebody's podcast on, and maybe your drive to work, your drive home, you've got this. Man, one day I want to have a thing.
What's really cool is when somebody in your position, because most people we talk to are, man, they've got a couple of years ahead of them to just get to zero, right? You're ahead of the curve. I would love for you to spend some time, and this sounds so cheesy, man, so just go with me, really picturing yourself at 30 within your own house and what that house would look like, and then get online and find out how much that house would cost.
And then as Dave says, you start being intentional about, man, going out with the boys on the weekend is fun and cool, but dude, I have a picture of the house. So I'm not going to blow $11,000 at various bars this year.
That 11 grand is going to go into an account because I want to have X dollars. So when I'm 30, I'm walking into my house that I own and nobody else owns it.
Yeah. What's it cost to buy and equip this truck? Yeah.
So you want to have a real firm picture. Detail it out.
Get a picture of it and put it on the refrigerator. Yeah.
You'll get married and that picture is going to change because you're all going to do one together. But that's where that intentionality, it gives you a map towards a thing you want to get to does that make sense yeah john's right when you uh dream in hd that's it it's clear definition where you can see the sweat coming out of the pores of the players you want to you want to dream in great detail and as to what it's going to look like what it's going to feel like uh when you walk in that house how you're how you're going to stand when you walk in there your chest is going to be out your shoulder is going to be back that's right you're going to be slumped over with your head down and your buddy's going to be come over to your house to hang out not paying some some bar owner to go into their facility right it's just a different thing or you and your wife are going to walk into this house when you're 30 yeah and you're it's a safe place for you and your kids that kind of thing have you – so something that has come up a few times over the last couple years is people get this HD picture and they strangle it.
And I'm starting to wonder if having that HD picture is step one and then step two is having the discipline or the patience to hold that pretty loosely too. You get what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, because it's never going to be exactly what it is.
Listen,'t want the house that you think you're you think of as a 25 year old well because you know they don't make them like they used to thank god right exactly you know you don't want the microwave from 1972 yes you want the one from today right right you don't want the toaster oven from 1972 you want the steam oven from today right you know whatever it is you don't want uh you know skylights used to be real popular and then we found out they were pretty cheesy and they leak and so people don't want to yeah water beds were cool i found out someone on our team still has a water bed don't don't don't say i'm not going to say their name don't don't don't shame don't shame them they should be ashamed but whoa but but like it's get this real clear picture and get a path towards it and then hold it it pretty loosely. Yeah, and then change it.
So in other words, I'll give you an example of that. That's very cool.
So when I was 17, the first time I saw that little two-seater Mercedes, that little hot rod. And I saw one the other day.
I'm glad I never got it. Did you slap it? Yeah.
But, you know, what that meant was, though, I wanted a really cool, nice car.

Right.

Because I'm a car guy.

Yeah.

And today I drive a really nice, cool two-seater car.

One of my cars.

A couple of them.

And so, you know, but it's not that car.

It's not that car.

It's not even a Mercedes.

But it's the direction, right?

Yeah.

So it changes.

Thank God.

It'll make them like they used to. Thank God.
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Give them a call at 800-356-4282. John's in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you for having me.
I hope you're doing well. I am.
How about you? I'm doing a bit better, a bit worse, but it's going in the right direction. Good.
How can we help today? I was trying to get some advice. So I don't know if it would be better to pay off the debt on my truck or pay down the negative equity on my wife's vehicle so that we can get her into a different vehicle.
Okay. What do you owe on your truck? I owe $20,000 on my truck.
And what's it worth? $27,000. Okay, cool.
And what's your wife's car worth? $32,000. Okay.
And what do you owe on it? $57,000. How in the heck? heck? Yeah.
You must have rolled negative equity from the last bad deal into it. A couple of the last bad deals.
Yeah, okay. We've been stacking them, and we stacked them on her car.
Okay. Stupid.
It's layers of stupid. Okay.
Wow. Ouch.
We've not been very good stewards of what we've been given. do you guys make what's your household income uh we've made about 140 last year okay and what other debts have you got so we owe 246 000 on our house and then we owe 1800 on my truck's bed cover.

And then there's just the two vehicles. That's it.
Okay. Well, obviously, the $1,800, you pay that off immediately.
Okay. Yeah, I'm going to pay that off.
In next month's budget. Okay.
And then, let's see, we've got $77,000 in car debt. Yes.
can you can you just sell your truck take five thousand of that seven and go buy a five thousand dollar get around car so actually i sold my other truck this this is the better end of it i actually had a much more expensive truck and bought this truck to downgrade yeah but you're not all the way the way at the bottom yet. It actually cleared up like $16,000.
But you still owe $20,000 on it, right? Yes. Okay.
That's where we're like. Here's a rule of thumb.
All right. 77 out of 140.
If I like the cars and I'm willing to fight to keep them, the rule of thumb that we use mathematically is this. Can I be debt-free everything but the house in two years without selling a car? And the answer to that question is yes, you can.
Okay. So you can pay off $77,000 making $140,000 in two years pretty easy.
That's only $35,000, $38,000 a year. a year okay so that that's pretty doable matter of fact you ought to do it in about 18 months and and knock it out really really really really really fast um so then the question you asked was which one do we pay off first you pay off your truck first because it's the smaller of the two debts if you're trying to to get rid of her car, you're $20,000 versus $20,000 then.
Now, $25,000 versus $20,000. Are you sure your 32 valuation is correct? It is.
We went to six different dealerships trying to get out of this car. That's what they offered you? That's what they offered you? The best one offered us $32,000.
Okay, that's not a retail. That's a wholesale trade-in value.
Yes, sir. That means you could private sell that for $37,000.
Probably, yes. Well, that's the number.
I mean, no. Dealers don't pay retail.
They buy it at trade-in because they're going to sell it at retail. So it doesn't matter is the answer to your question, which one you do.
You've got to do both of them in the next 18 months. And so $57,000, I'm sorry, yeah, $77,000, let's call it $80,000 in a year and a half.
Okay. And so that's what I want to do.
And then I'm just going to divide that out and I'm going to get with it. And so that's going to sound like $4,000, $5,000 a month at these things.
Well, the thing is, we actually just came into some pretty good money. Well, bury the lead.
Lead with that one, homie.

What'd you come into?

I'm sorry.

Well, so when I sold my truck,

I got all my warranties back from the other dealerships.

We got about $6,000 from them.

And then my wife started a new job

and she got a sign-on bonus of $12,000.

She got half of it just now.

So we have roughly 30 in the bank right now. Pay off your truck.
You got 30 in the bank right now? Yes. Okay.
Pay off your truck today. Yeah.
And pay off the $1,800. And then let's start attacking her car with everything in the budget.
Okay. Yeah.
Take your savings all the way down to $1,000, which is your baby step one. Baby step two is pay off all debts, smallest to largest except the house, but you only have one debt left after tomorrow.
So we're going to pay off your stuff, and then you're stuck with her car. And here's what I want you to do, okay? Here's what I do in these situations.
And so when I do stuff like this, and every time you write a huge check towards $57,000 on her car, and you need to do this in well under a year, okay?

So you need to be putting $5,000 a month on her car because you don't have your car payment anymore after tomorrow.

Every time you send a check for $5,000 on that, I want you to cuss yourself under your breath.

I was going to say hit yourself in the face, but Dave's is probably safer.

because what I do is every time,

because every time,

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I used to write on a, I used to write on a, I used to write on a, I used to write was going to say hit yourself in the face, but Dave's is probably safer. Yeah, because what I do is every time,

because every time,

I used to write on a check in the four column,

stupid tax.

Yeah.

Because I'm paying stupid tax right here

because I did a stupid thing.

And by the time you finish paying off this car,

you'll be so pissed off,

you will never do this again.

That's what I want. That's how I do it to myself i it's not it's not destroying my identity and i'm not shaming myself or condemning myself it's i want to learn this lesson so it never happens again so the next time a car dealer walks towards you you know he could get hurt i mean it's just like we're not get away from me because you don't do well on car lots.
I can tell. Yes.
You've gotten, gotten beat up. Dave, I actually love that.
I love that. And because you'll do it with a smile on your face, but it's a, you, you are taking a moment to, to, to sound woo woo.
You are taking a mindful moment to absorb the consequence of you not making good choices. And that's important.
It keeps you from doing it again. Exactly.
We're trying to break the cycle. Let's put some new grooves in the brain patterns and the neuroscience here.
You've got $20,000 of dead money. That should hurt for four months when you write $5,000 checks.
It's a stack of three bad car deals stacked on top of each other. So yeah, enjoy that ride out because it's going to be your last one, in other words.

That's what I want you to do.

And, yeah, just – and I'm not picking on you.

I have done dumber things than you've done.

I'm just saying learn the lesson.

If you're going to get the scars, if you're going to get the bruises,

at least learn the lesson permanently.

And so, you know, we used to – somebody would call and go, you know, I've messed up my credit i would always say good yep keeps you from getting more yes now and and you're only 23 you can learn you've got the whole rest of your life to live without worrying about that one less thing as forrest gump used to say dave it can we just just say this out loud rolling negative equity is in the like i can't think of a rolling negative equity on a depreciating asset i can't think of a of a dumber way to set money on fire in your house well and that's not picking on john it's everybody it's all of us that have done that yeah yeah i'm again not just poking on him but the the thought that that's an option yeah well and what it is it's just stacking stupid yeah i mean we got stacks of stupid here three three deep and uh yeah and here's the thing overall the whole thing of car payments falls in that category there you go it's the largest item in america that we buy that goes down in value the only thing we buy that's larger is a home. Yeah.
I mean, 98% of people anyway, right? And we buy a $40,000, a $50,000 car, and it loses 60 to 70% of its value in the first four years. And so you're setting money on fire when you buy a new car to start with.
That's if you pay cash for it. But let's go ahead and finance it so that we're upside down while it's burning to the ground and uh you know and let's just make sure we pay some interest or worse than that let's lease it the most expensive way to possibly operate a vehicle and then the brakes squeak and the dealer says oh you should i can just put you in a new one yeah if you just give me this one we'll roll it we'll yeah man just getting a mess i've always got a new have a new car except for those months when i was driving that car and it was used but yeah yeah golly the things we say yeah don't buy brand new cars unless you have a net worth of a million dollars or more and don't buy cars unless pay cash for them.
And they should not, all the things that you own with motors and wheels should not total more than half your annual income. You have too much tied up in things going the wrong way, you're going to be broke people your whole life.
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Drew is in Tupelo, Mississippi.

Hi, Drew. How are you?

Doing well, Dave. How are you? Doing well, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So my wife and I were wondering if I should stop investing 10% into my 401K

and continue to save in order to get close to the 20% down payment on a house.

Okay.

We call that Baby Step 3B. Three is your emergency fund, fully funded.
We're not touching that. Four is putting 15%, baby step 4, of your income into retirement.
You're currently putting in 10. So sometimes people, before they start baby step 4, putting 15% away, don't start it for a short period of time and use that cash like you're talking about

to build up the down payment.

Or they put in less in their 401k and use the difference temporarily

for one or two years to save up the down payment.

So the answer to your question is yes.

But as soon as you get that down payment in place,

baby step four kicks in and it's 15% of your household income going into retirement at that point. Okay.
She's currently in vet school, so I'm the only line of income right now making $83,000 a year, and we've got $70,000 in savings, $8,800 in 401K, and I've got $35K set aside for emergency funds. So we were looking in our area, the houses we were going to buy were around $300,000, and I was basing that off of being able to put down 20%, which would be $60K.
And once she starts her job, we should be close to $200,000. Do you think that's reasonable? Yeah, because you'll knock that little bitty debt out real fast and have a paid-for house.
Okay. Once she starts, right? When does she graduate? Next May.
So we're looking to buy since she graduates. What's her practice plan? Is she going to join a local practice, or does she know?

She's going to work for between five to eight years

and then open up her own business and become a business owner.

Yeah, but has she got a place to do that?

Yes, yes.

She's had job offers anywhere from $100,000 to $120,000

with a $75,000 signing bonus. That's pretty standard for Vets, yeah.
And she'll be making $200 in five years. Absolutely.
Yeah. I mean, that's a great field.
So good for her. Good for you.
Well done. Yeah, and so if you're buying a $300,000 house, you're putting down $60,000, that's $240,000, and then you start making $200,000, and that's your only debt? Man, you're going to knock that out pretty quick, agreed? No, I hope so.
That's the plan. Yeah, and then, you know, save up and pay cash and move up in house later.
Once you're making 300 or 400K in the household, and you've got no debt on that house, you can sell that house for 500 by then, put some money with it, and buy a million-dollar house. You'll be able to do that.
That's going to be your future out there 10 years. Yeah, And if you pay that house and for 500 by then put some money with it and buy a million dollar house you'll be able to do that that's going to be your future out there 10 years yeah if you pay that house off real fast drew when she gets done the biggest thing i see when people graduate with their big graduate degrees whether it's an md or a nurse practitioner or vet is their colleagues all drive really fancy cars and they'll have huge houses that they go to at christmas and you start thinking am i doing something wrong we get a different house or a bigger house.
If y'all can stay in that $300,000 house and pay it off in a year and a half, and she starts socking away that house payment for the purchase of a practice in eight years or her own metal building that she's going to turn into a shop, man, then y'all win. What I see vets do is they go and they get a big house and then they borrow a million dollars to buy into a practice or to start their own.
And then they're just up to their eyes and ears in debt. And so, man, you guys have a chance to do this thing.
Well, they buy a $95,000 dually because they have a large animal practice. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah. So you can get out over your skis on this or, dude, you can look up in 10 years, have a paid-for nice house, nice house a paid for practice and you are just in gravy train yeah because you don't care what anybody else thinks that's right yeah you're on track dude you're really thinking this through you've done a great job by the way yeah you're way ahead of the curve already and then your questions are excellent and cheers to to cash flow and a vet degree man that puts you in the rear air my brother that's brother.
That's awesome. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Sherry's in Atlanta. Hi, Sherry.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.
Hi. I had a question.
My husband and I are both getting closer to retirement. I'm 62.
He's 67. We have two small insurance policies I was thinking about cashing in.
Mine is a universal life insurance policy. The death benefit is $66,000, and if I cashed it in, it's like $15,000.
His is a whole life policy. If he cashes it in, it's like $10,000, and the death benefit is $14,000.
They both have very low monthly premiums. Mine's like $25 a month, and his is $14 a month.
Yeah, because you don't have any insurance. So that's why you don't have any premiums.
What's your nest egg? Well, we got a late start, or he did. His plan was the rapture plan.
I'm the nerd, and I've saved about $800,000. Oh, he was going to leave you behind.
Okay, so you were smart. You got $800,000 saved.
Good for you. God, he married well, Sharon.
Is your house paid off? We owe about $15,000 left. $16,000? You got that in checking.
Yes, we do. I have about $60,000 in savings.
Yeah, pay it today. Okay.
And do you need life insurance if he dies? I've got just term life insurance through work. Wait a minute.
Your house is worth what? Your house is worth what? About $550,000. Okay.
And you got a million dollars saved almost. Okay.
Yeah. So you got a million and a half dollar net worth.
You're 61 years old. He's 67.
If he dies today, you make it with without the 14 000 policy yes

you've crushed it man you follow me excellent job okay so that means you are self-insured and you can cancel this policy you've got the one through work that's a little extra is that on you or him? The 600 through work is me he's got one um that um is about 250 but his expires when he turns 70 mine expires when i quit work good okay either way if they expire you're fine okay but you don't cancel because well you don't need to cancel them. They're free, right?

The ones that work? No, the one I paid, a supplemental one.

It's like, I don't know, $125 a month.

It's just some term insurance, some ART at work.

Yes, you have enough insurance and enough assets to care for you without these two policies.

Is that a true statement?

Yes. These two little policies oh the little policy the little ones you called me about if they disappear if you don't get that money you're just fine you're not even going to notice yeah that was didn't sound convincing for my kids like 66 your $800,000.
And a half a million dollar house. You don't need 66,000 from a rip-off whole life company.
No, I cancel both of these immediately because you are easily under control without them. Okay.
And pay off the house today anyway. And then if I paid off the house,

do you think the monthly house payment that we're making,

should I just go ahead and take that amount every month and start piling it in my 401k?

Why not?

Wouldn't hurt a thing.

Sherry, will you make me a promise?

Okay.

My mom's a little bit older than you,

but I'm going to pretend you're my mom for a second.

Will you do me a favor?

Sure. Will you pay your house off today and cash out both of those policies and take you in that rapture husband of yours out on a vacation or at least a real fancy fancy dinner well we're planning to do our like our last big whoopty before we retire or he retires here we're doing like an Iceland, Norway.
Oh, good. I like that.
Coming up in May. That's good.
That makes me happy for you. While you're there, buy a ridiculous bottle of wine.
Yes. Yeah.
You're millionaires, kiddo. You did it.
You've been white knuckling this thing for a long time. You've been holding so tight.
And you're sweating over a $14,000 policy. Cancel it! Pay off your house today.
Wow. That's so cool.
Good for you guys. You're heroes.
Man, I love America. For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes.
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Glenn is with us in Moore, Oklahoma. He is one of the many teachers across America teaching Ramsey's Foundations and Personal Finance to high schoolers.
So we wanted to have him on and talk about that a minute. Hey, Glenn, thanks for doing that, man.
Hey, you're welcome. I enjoy what I do, and it's all because of you.
Well, no, I mean, you're the one in the classroom dealing with all this. It's pretty cool.
So you're in Moore, Oklahoma. Is it Moore High School then? Yes, it is.
It's Moore High School. Where is Moore in Oklahoma? Right south of Oklahoma City by about 18, 20 miles.
We're literally a part of Oklahoma City. I got you.
Okay. Well, we were a little bit east of there in Ada the other day for a funeral.
Okay. Oh, wow.
That's pretty close right in that right in the neighborhood there yeah so

uh how many students are enrolled in the high school uh 2600 oh it's a big school all right cool how many in your class uh i teach uh two sections or two uh two sessions of uh your class right now and then I teach three other classes.

But right now I have 25 a class, so I've got 50 kids in total with doing the foundations class.

Cool.

Thank you for doing that, man.

We really appreciate it.

How long have you been doing that?

I've been teaching financial literacy for 13 years and with yours the last three years.

Okay. And I won't teach it any other way besides your way wow well thank you thank you so how much do the kids challenge you like hey mr so-and-so do you really do this they ask me all the time and i always tell them i said well i was just like dave i was i was once you know made my way then Then I had to file bankruptcy, and I learned the hard way, and then come back out, and then I can be that person that can give the real truth and the honest answers to the kids, and that's the only way I believe teaching.
Yeah. And you're teaching – the thing we always hear, and I bet you've heard it as well, is that the kids like the class because it's something they can actually realize they're going to use.

The Pythagorean theorem, maybe not, but definitely knowing how to balance a checkbook for sure.

A hundred percent, and that's kind of what I tell them.

I said it's the most relevant class they'll ever take in high school because every day they'll deal with money.

Glenn, how much do you have to deal with parents who challenge you on a credit card deal or a car lease or something like that?

I don't have any challenges like that, but I do challenge my students with that.

And, you know, because I ask for insight from the kids and when we talk and stuff like that.

And then there's not, there's only when we do a parent teacher conference that parents come in and then when we sit down we start talking that they find out exactly what we're talking about because I open up everything to them I show them everything that we do in the class and they're like oh my gosh I wish we would have had this when we were in high school and I said exactly what do you would like, so whenever I see politicians or even me and my team, we get in a room and we're talking about what, quote unquote, these kids these days are dealing with. You're in there every day.
When it comes to money, what are these high school kids, like, obviously they don't know about credit scores, they don't know about debt, they don't know about that kind of stuff, but what do you see them really worrying about? Uh, food and shelter. I mean, that's the biggest things.
I mean, I try to talk to them about cars, but you know, with a school of 2,600 kids, we are, you know, pretty, pretty large school. And a lot of kids just worry about having a job to help their families out, get by.
Yeah. They their employers.
They'll try to bring me a W-4 and tax information to help them fill it out, to try to get them a resume built, anything like that. That's amazing.
Glenn and Dave, we continue to hear that, that there's all of this rhetoric about all this other stuff going on in the average American. And their high school kids who, by the way, if you're a parent of high schoolers, they're absorbing everything is, hey, how are we going to buy eggs? Right.
How are we going to how are we going to buy groceries? And so, man, I'm so grateful that you're there walking alongside them. That's amazing.
That's beautiful, man. Thank you so much for doing this.
We really appreciate it. And we've got a sponsor, First United Bank and Trust,

that apparently bought the curriculum and donated it to the school, right?

Yes, sir.

We are very honored to have that done for us.

Yeah, that makes a big difference as well,

because we've got lots of local businesses all around the U.S. that step up and buy the foundations for,

foundations of personal finance for the local school,

and that helps a teacher like Glenn be able to teach this to 100 students a year. Three years, so you've got some graduates out there in the wild that have been through our stuff.
Do you hear back from any of them? Yes, and a lot of them come back. The first thing I always talk about, of course, is income, but I talk about the investing aspect, that they have a savings account, open up a mutual fund, you know, like you talk about, and then kids take their, take their money out of a savings account because it's drawing nothing and you're just wasting it.
And kids will come back and be like, Hey, Mr. Fred, I'm so happy that I had your class, that I invested this money.
And, uh, and I'm, you know, not having to pay for, you know, things outside right now, because I've got grants and scholarships that you talked about, the easy way to pay for school. Oklahoma Promise, they went through all the things that we try to cover in class and get across to them and they come back.
And I'm just amazed with the knowledge that some of these kids come back with and their blessing basically coming back. I mean, because that's what it is to me is it's a blessing that I'm able to teach this and get this out to the students, and then they in turn come back and let me know that they're being successful.
I'm proud of you, man. You're a hero.
I remember high school distinctly that there were only two categories of teachers, those that mailed it in and everybody couldn't stand them, and the teachers that really gave a crap and were all up in the kids' lives and helping us move to the next level. And you're that guy.
You're the one that they'll remember the rest of their lives. I can name them still, and it was 45 years ago.
I can name you exactly who was there that made a difference, and I strangely have forgotten the other ones.

But, yeah, the ones like you, they're embedded into our psyche

because that's the power of being a teacher for an adolescent.

Absolutely fabulous.

Thank you, sir.

We appreciate you so much.

For any of you teachers listening,

you can enter the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway.

It's free to enter. No purchase is necessary.
One teacher is going to win a $5,000 vacation because we love teachers. And two more teachers are going to win a $3,000 vacation each.
Go to RamseySolutions.com slash teacher to enter. April is National Financial Literacy Month, and we celebrate that by celebrating teachers and highlighting men and women like Glenn in the classroom.
And just to stop and say, hey, we appreciate you. We appreciate the fact that our stuff's being taught, and there's no other way it would get taught.
Changing gears, let's face it, our money and relationships in America are out of whack. Dr.
John Deloney to my right right and i will be in six cities coming up uh starting in about two weeks we're going to be in louisville kentucky april the 21st doing live events and you're going to pick the subjects in the audience before we get up there in the 30 minutes before the curtain goes up we're going to put a list of stuff out that john can talk i could talk or we can talk You're going to pick them, and then we're going to do them ad hoc.

We're going to throw it together and do a show that night.

So none of these shows will be alike.

It's going to be very fun, very interesting.

Louisville, Kentucky, April 21.

Durham, April 23.

Atlanta, April 25.

That's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Two weeks later, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday is Phoenix, May 5.

Fort Worth, May 7.

Kansas City, May 9. You can get your tickets.
They're not sold out, but they're getting close. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash tour or click the show notes on YouTube or podcast.
Make sure you line up. John, that's going to be really fun.
It's going to be wild in the streets, man. That last planning meeting we had, I left pretty excited.
It's going to be a fun show. Well, you and I both like making stuff up on the fly,

as opposed to following the rules.

But, yeah, that's what we're going to do.

It's not made up, but I'm saying we're not coming in and talking at you.

We're saying, what do you want to learn about tonight?

We'll be with you.

That's right.

And whatever you want to learn about tonight, we'll teach you.

And it's going to be very interactive and a high experience process that's different than maybe you've ever been to. So I'm looking forward to it.
I think it's going to be a lot of fun. So make sure you get your tickets at RamseySolutions.com.
Get signed up while you can. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey personality, Ph.D. in counseling, host of the Dr.
John Deloney Show, very popular show on the Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money.
The phone number is 888-825-5225. Jessica is in Richmond, Virginia.
Hi, Jessica. How are you? Hi, Dave.
Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call.
Our pleasure. What's up? I just found out recently that I am scheduled to go to court in May because Bank of America wants to garnish my paycheck.
And I just don't know what to do. I can't afford to have 25% of my paycheck garnished every two weeks.
I don't know if there's anything I can do to prevent it, or I don't know where to go from here. Okay.
What do you owe Bank of America? My ex-husband ran a credit card years ago. It's about $10,000, a little less than $10,000.
Okay. And how long has it been since you paid them? Oh, years, years.
How many years? Like almost, it's like eight or nine years old. Good.

That's wonderful.

Okay.

And so this has your name on the credit card

and your ex-husband's name on the credit card.

His name is not on the credit card.

The credit card is only in my name.

The divorce decree require he pay any of it?

No, we, everybody just got their own debt in their own name in the divorce. Okay.
Except that his dad has got your name on it, but other than that, yeah. Okay.
Exactly. Yeah.
All right. What do you make? Um, 1700 every two weeks to take home.
Okay.

And how many kids have you got?

Three.

What ages?

Two are older.

One is elementary school age.

Older, as in over 20 and they're not your problem?

Correct.

Okay.

Well, technically, yes. No, technically, they're not your problem.
They're living at home. One still lives at home, but he's over 20.
Okay. And he needs a job and needs to be buying his own stuff.
Yeah, okay. So 1,700, what do you do for a living? Broad description of social work.
Okay okay all right ah and in one elementary school you got any family in the area none to speak of no sir i'm guessing you have no money just a thousand dollar emergency fund okay how much other debt do you? I owe my dad about $6,000 for a car. I have about $2,500 in collections and medical debt and about four separate student loans that total about $26,000.
When did you get divorced? The divorce was finalized a few years ago. I don't even remember, like 2022 or something like that.
All right. Now, so they have sued you and asked you to come to court.
Has there already been a court date prior to this one?

It was years ago. It was years ago.
I don't remember when it was, but it was a really long time ago. I wasn't able to go to court that time because I was in the middle of a foreclosure.
So did they take a judgment lien at that time? that's my understanding, but it never showed up on my credit report, so I don't know. Okay.
I assume yes, because now I'm being garnished. Well, no, you're not being garnished yet.
There's a hearing for you to be garnished. Maybe.
There may be a hearing to renew the judgment first. Okay.
So the judgment has to be complete and then they execute on the judgment by collecting any assets. And one of the ways they execute is a garnishment.
Okay. And so I'm not sure exactly what your court date is because you're not.
Um, it sounds like though, that they're trying to, uh, reinvigorate an ancient judgment lien in order to execute on it and file a garnishment. It sounds like, though, that they're trying to reinvigorate an ancient judgment lien in order to execute on it and file a garnishment.
It sounds like they're going to do that, but they're not garnishing. It's not automatic that this is going to happen.
Okay. So first thing I want to do is I want to really dig in.
Call the courthouse and ask to talk to the judge's assistant or the judge's paralegal and find out exactly what the status of this account is. And do you have a judgment and ask her how the procedure works there, her or him, they, one of the clerks in the judge's office will walk you through what's going on here.
And you got to get, become an expert in 20 minutes on a tiny couple of legal maneuvers. Okay.
And then ask them, I've got kids at home, I'm broke, I'm a single mom, what can I do about this garnishment to keep it from happening if they're actually going to do that? Because Bank of America said it's going to happen does not mean it's going to happen because you can tell a Bank of America credit card collector is lying if their mouth is moving, okay? They are they lie cheat and steal every day that's why no one should ever do business with that bank they're filthy all right and so i don't know based on what they did to scare you because you're scared we can hear it in your voice they accomplished that goal but i'm not sure that they told you the truth as a matter of fact i'm fairly sure they didn't okay now i mean i'm sorry go ahead go ahead i don't mean to help you you're fine i was just gonna say it's just um my my ex-husband was extremely abusive and now just having this brought up again is just oh yeah it's emotional it all back and it's emotional i don't blame you i just want it to go away i want it to go away too but it's not going to until we deal with it okay it's not going to go away by ignoring it we found that out over the last five years and jessica your your divorce was finalized two years ago can i give you a promise okay avoiding this again just reinforces that sense of powerlessness that you feel. And we live in a culture that says just avoid anything uncomfortable, and it's burying people.
And so here's my promise to you. If you'll find a friend, find a coworker, take him to coffee and say, I've never told anybody this.
I got this judgment, this horrible thing where you walk alongside me. A, you're going to give somebody the greatest gift another person can give somebody, which is the question, can you help me? Yeah, and do the same thing with your pastor at your church.
Yep. You need to go tell them what's going on and see if they'll help you.
Now, all of that to say, now let's go to the end of it. Here's what we're going to do.
They will take, because the probability of them collecting this is close to zero, 98% of the people facing what you're facing file bankruptcy and they get zero.

You don't need to file bankruptcy over this.

You do need to scrape together $1,500 to $2,000 right quick,

selling some stuff, take an extra job or three.

Tell your 20-year-old to go get a job.

Tell your 20-year-old to get three jobs.

We've got to scrape together maybe the church chip in and help you a little bit. We need to scrape together $1,500 to $2,000 and offer that to them as a lump sum settlement.
They will say, glory, hallelujah. I got some money out of this woman.
I didn't think I was ever going to get a dime. And they will take that as a settlement in full.
And the whole thing goes away. That's how you settle this.
And it goes away. The only other thing you can do to stop a garnishment is file bankruptcy, and I wouldn't do that.
I would fight them tooth and nail.

I'd go down there getting the judge's face.

I'm going to learn all about this.

I'm going to make this my new hobby, and I'm going to put this abusive crap in the rearview mirror permanently.

So the good news is you haven't paid on it in a long time, and they will settle for pennies on the dollar.

15% to 20% will settle this on a four-year-old debt.

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I want to shout out our teachers for a minute. You guys give so much to our kids every day.
And often those days stretch into your nights and weekends. Seriously, you deserve a break.
And by that, I mean a dream vacation. All you have to do is enter the Ramsey Teacher Appreciation Giveaway sponsored by Ramsey Education.
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That's RamseySolutions.com slash teacher. Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by YRefi.
Before I do that, I'm going to stop. I meant to do something coming back from that.
Okay, so some people listening to that last call are like, Bank of America will settle for 15 cents on the dollar on a four-year-old debt. The answer is absolutely, and I'll give you the proof.
A couple of years ago, I think about three years ago, four years ago now, we decided to do something weird at Ramsey as part of our Christmas celebration for our team. And I've worked with and negotiated old bad debt on the behalf of clients at anywhere from 5 or 10 or 20 or 30 cents on the dollar for 30 years to get people out of debt that were broke like that poor lady and scared like that poor lady.
So I knew that market was there, and we contacted. You can buy old bad debt in in bulk and there are companies that buy old bad credit card debt and then try to collect it and you buy it at pennies on the dollar and try to collect it at dimes on the dollar and you make you make the spread if that's the business if they're a debt buyer that's what they do so we bought 10 million dollars worth of bad credit card repossession and medical debt for $259,000.

That's two and a half cents on the dollar.

So we paid two pennies, three pennies on the dollar for $10 million worth of debt. There were 8,000 accounts, and we did it to forgive it.
It was part of our Christmas deal. So we've got 1,000 team members.
We gave each of them eight people to call and say, you know that debt? It's forgiven in Jesus' name. We bought it, and we're forgiving it.
In Jesus' name, Merry Christmas. And that was our Christmas fun.
That was awesome. And we had so much fun with it.
It was so cool. People were crying.
They thought we were con artists. They didn't believe us.
It was so fun. But the point is not that we're wonderful people, although that was a very fun thing to do.
But that's not the point. The point is we bought that for two and a half cents on the dollar.
And that was many times a car that was repoed four years ago, three years ago. They don't think they're going to collect it.
That's the point. And so when someone gets that far under, very seldom does the bank ever get their money.
If they do corner someone like they did her, put them in court, they typically file bankruptcy and get zero. So that's what normally happens.
So banks are aware of those probabilities. They know the value of that $10,000 account is probably, you know, a couple of hundred bucks.
So she shows up, in that case, with $1,500. And says they're going to be, they won't act like it to her.
They're going to be jerks to her because they're Bank of America. But they're going to be hard to negotiate with.
But believe me, they're going to be really happy. Yeah, that's 15 cents on the dollar, not two and a half cents on the dollar that I was talking about.
And that sounds kind of absurd to people who are used to paying our bills and all that kind of a thing. But in that world, that's a very standard way of looking at things because it's the probability of collection.
Every day a credit goes unpaid the probability goes down dramatically that's right and i always want to as a guy who um dave i i pride myself on pay my bills on time i pride myself i always want to remember that voice that i just heard that's gonna haunt me for a while dave is the woman who had an abusive marriage the court did what the court did she's got three kids she's got like there are things that pop up in people's lives and that's where general that's why you live and give like nobody else right you get these moments like this for people and i'm glad that there's those situations they can walk in and say here can i just settle this thing and be done with it yeah it's awesome and they'll she'll be able to do that one of the things she's got to do is, one of the reasons I wanted her to learn all this is to change the confidence that she has. She's going to stand up tall.
That's right. Because I want her vocal cords to relax before she starts having this conversation.
Because you can't negotiate when you sound like that. Because they can smell that amount.
Well, everybody could hear how scared she was. Yeah.
So, including the lawyer on the other side. That's right.
All right. Now, the Ramsey Show.
Question of the day, brought to you by Y-Refi. Do you have defaulted student private loans? There we go.
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I love this question. This question comes from Jessica in Florida.
Do you have advice for adult children discussing wills with their parents? We know that my husband's parents will be upset about who we've chosen as the guardians of our children should we pass away before they reach adulthood. Should we tell them our plans or leave it to them to find out if anything does happen to us? Great question.
Please, please, please have the courage to sit down and have those hard conversations. This is a great way for your kids to get dragged through court when your in-laws decide to sue your guardians because they didn't know and blah, blah, blah.
Like, yes, have that hard conversation. That anytime your will is going to piss somebody off do it while you're alive yes good that's a better way to say it because the other parties are going to have to deal with the pissed off person if you don't have the courage to so if you're cutting little bobby out because little bobby's doing cocaine go ahead and tell bobby you're out of the wheel because you're doing cocaine and i'm not giving you money to buy cocaine so you're out of the wheel i'm gonna i'm gonna say well do whatever you want to do bobby just have your little cocaine fit but you're not going to be in the wheel and you just have the discussion while we're doing it while we're alive this idea that there's all these family secrets and all this, and it's all going to be solved in a walnut paneled room with the trophy wife

and the three kids.

That's a movie scene.

That's not real life.

Real life is people get angry over the China cabinet.

And they'll sue you.

They'll sue brothers.

We'll sue brothers over the China cabinet or actually brothers.

Wives. The 1957 John Deere tractor can break up a family.
Yes. Because you didn't deal with it while you were alive.
And so, you know, Sharon's dad, he's 96. And he's so funny.
I got to meet him the other day. Yeah, he was like the mascot on the cruise, right? He came with us on the cruise.
And as sharp as a tack, he told the kids to go through and flip over anything in the house and write their name on it, unless somebody else's name was already on it. That's what my grandmother said.
She said, put a sticker on it, and once the sticker's on it, no complaining. That's what she said.
It's done. First come, first serve.
That's right. And I have not looked, but I suspect there's some stickers in there.
And I also suspect that if you didn't choose these folks to be the guardians of your children,

this is why, right?

Because they don't respect you as adults.

They think that they've got all these impositions. They don't get a vote.

Right.

They don't get a vote.

Let's see.

My husband's parents.

Okay, so by the way, when you sit down and talk to them, Jessica, you have a lot of things you want to say.

You don't get to say any of them.

Please don't. Let him speak.
Let him talk. And if your husband doesn't want to talk about it, tell him to run down Walmart and pick up a backbone on aisle three and deal with his mama.
That's exactly what's going on here. And by the way, if mom, if grandparents decide that this just makes them so mad that they don't want to do Christmas with you anymore, then it's a two-for-one deal for y'all.
Now you have to do fun Christmas without these goofballs. I get them being sad about it.
I get them thinking, oh, I wish it was us. I get that.
I get that. We need to keep it in the family.
I get all that that they don't get a vote and that's hard i think dave i keep getting this question about everything when you're grand i get this question more and more these days i want to give them more gummy bears yes i don't get a vote that's right actually i'll still give you more gummy bears i know but it's sneaking around that's i think that's part of being a grandparent i might have done that but i'm talking about i'm not i'm talking about technically following the rules the question I gotta get them all sugared up before I send them home is how do we

have I might have done that, but I'm talking about technically following the rules. The question underneath this question is how do we have this conversation without them getting mad, disappointed, frustrated? And you can't.
You cannot own somebody else's emotions when you have a hard truth to tell them. You can own how you say that hard truth with dignity, with honesty, and with a period at the end of the sentence.
Say less than you think you need to say. They get to decide whether to be angry, sad.
That's for them. You can't manage that.
This upsets me. You know, I'm really sorry.
I'm sorry. Sorry to upset you.
You're breaking up this family. I'm sorry that you see it that way.
No, I'm not. I'm not breaking up the family.
If you want to do that, that'll be up to you, but I'm not doing that. I just made a decision about this.
And it's, you know, Jefferson talks about keep these conversations really brief. Very short.
Don't drag all the other crap of the toxicity in the 1962. Now, Brink, just let all that go away.
This is just a simple thing. I want to tell you what's in our will.
And we wanted to make sure you knew while we were here because we probably think you're probably not going to like it. We want y'all to stay grandparents and not have to become parents.
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It's amazing. So again, that's joindeliteme.com slash Ramsey.
Make sure to check it out, you guys. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships.
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John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host on the debt-free stage right here in the middle of the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Katie is with us.
Hey, Katie, how are you? I'm doing well. Good.
Where do you live? Alexandria, Louisiana. Sorry, I'm a little emotional.
You're going to be all right. We'll get you through it.
We've never lost a patient. So enjoy the ride.
Thank you. How much debt have you paid off, Katie? About 60, a little over 67,000.
Good for you. How long did that take? It took me five years and a lot of hurt and heartache and a lot of prayers.
Good for you. Yeah.
Scratching and clawing, kiddo. And what was your household income range? Your best year and worst year over that five year period of time um side hustles and um gifts and everything uh first year when i started this it was about 45 000 um last year i ended uh right around 67 000 good for you what do you do for a living i'm a pediatric occupational therapy assistant as well as a medical billing specialist good for you wow very so.
So on behalf of my family, just personal for what you do professionally, thank you. That's a hard gig and somebody in your seat wearing your title changed my family.
So thank you. That's awesome.
You've been a huge motivation to keep going. Very good.
So what was the $67,000 in debt? What kind of debt? Everything except for a payday loan. That is the only thing that I didn't do in a house.
I didn't go that far. Lots of medical bills.
The majority of it was student loans. Looking back, that was the worst mistake of my life.
And bought a car, second worst mistake. Bought a car a month before starting this.
So fortunately, I did buy a used car. So so it was not a huge loan but it was a loan so tell us where that emotion comes from um just the amount of time that it took the amount of time it took yes my goal was two years and um right before starting I um I mean sorry right during the time that I that pushed me to start this um I was dealing with some medical things that was unexplainable at the time.
There was no explanation at the time. I'd spent 10 months going back and forth to doctors.
Saw three or four specialists. Did not know what was going on.
And in October, I had already been a side hustler since I started working at 16 before I even knew what a side hustle was. And I was dog-sitting, and I stumbled across the Ramsey Show on YouTube.
And I was dog-sitting, so what else do you do? I mean, I binge-watched. You know, dogs help us a lot.
They promote the show quite often. Yes, yes.
And actually, the family that I was dog-sitting for, they are a pediatric therapy center about two hours from where I live. I worked for them in college.
And they're Ramsey. They do all the entree leadership.
They've been to Summit, I think, when you guys were in Florida. Wow.
And in Christy. And they have Believe and Achieve Therapy in Monroe, Louisiana.
And so I was dog sitting for Christy, their therapy dogs. And I, I just, I watched the show, I think, for 18 hours one day, because I mean, what else do you do, you know? And so I was like, this is what I need, because I had medical bills that had started pouring in.
I had just bought a car. And I was just, I was very down and I was, I didn't know what to do, you know? And so, um, so binge watching the whole thing gave you tools and it didn't give you shame.
Right. And I will say, I tell everybody, I knew what you were going to say.
I watched it so much. I knew what you were going to say before you knew what you were going to say.
A lot of people play answer the question before date when they're driving. Yes I do that a lot and so I got started and I started saving my emergency fund and I actually a few weeks later I was talking to my boss and I was sharing with her we were we were close and worked for a very small clinic in Alexandria.
Shout out to MB Therapy and all my team. They may be watching or they're probably working.
But I was talking to her and sharing with her that I had started. I had done my $1,000 emergency fund with actually the money that I made doing dog sitting and then a few other odd jobs.
And she said, oh yeah, you need to do this. She said, my husband and I, Todd and Megan Bolton are their names.
She said, my husband and I did it 20 years ago when Dave taught the class and she said and that's why we were able to um that's why we do things the way we do and so that was in 2019 when I started well you know what happened in 2020 and so heard the rumor looking back um I'm so grateful that you taught the class that they took in Monroe, Louisiana, 20-something years ago. Oh, yeah, I remember going down there.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
We did an event at the Baptist Church. That was 1,000 years ago.
They took it. I'm not sure if it was that specific event.
I know it was through the employer that he worked for, but I'm not sure. I don't know all the details.
But all I know is that we are about to build a multimillionmillion dollar clinic debt-free and she was able to continue meeting payroll we never missed a payment um never missed i never missed a paycheck during covid and we actually um probably tripled our patient load during 2020 2021 because she was able never took one of the loans that was offered and guess what one of the Paychecks was yours right and you're trying to get rid of 67 000 yes yes wow scraping that was actually so what was the first thing you paid off um first thing i paid off was probably a medical bill what was the last thing you paid off uh last thing was student loans um i did not realize until later that i was supposed to have broken those up into smaller loans and so so I always treated it as my biggest loan, but they're gone. So I did that, took care of that on December.
How does it feel not have any? You have no idea. I mean, you do, but it's just so amazing.
Have you had that month yet where you didn't have any payments, but your paycheck deposited? That was this month, actually. What was that like? It was amazing.
It was supposed to have been February. We were celebrating, that's another story, but we celebrated the adoption of my little boy in February.
And the night before his party, I was bringing his cake back home for the party the next day, and he and I had a massive car accident, totaled our car. And I had so many people say well you're gonna get a car you're gonna have a car payment and I said nope I said God's gonna provide and um we had insurance didn't you I did but I didn't know insurance you know I didn't know what kind of an insurance check I had an older car I was driving my the car that I was driving I had bought five years before and it was old when I bought it.
And so it was a good car, but you know, it wasn't worth a whole lot. So I talked to my brother about purchasing his car.
He's in the military. So we had a lot of, you know, talked about that.
He doesn't need the vehicle. And so that was kind of what I was thinking, but it was 2000, I think it's a 2000, 2001, something like that.
But my parents reached out to me and said, Hey, we're talking about getting a new vehicle. So, um, you know, we'll sell you this one for this amount.
And I said, okay, you know, we'll see what my, um, what my insurance check is. Um, because I don't know if I'll be able to swing it, but you know, and that they had agreed that they would give me a small amount as well toward the purchase of whatever I bought.
And so a couple weeks later, I got a phone call from my insurance company, and it was almost to the penny of everything that I needed to pay for the car in full, as well as the registration. I paid $200 over to cover the registration.
And it's a better car than that junker that got total. Yes, I went from a 2016 Sentra to a 2016 Rogue.
I like it. I'm proud of you yeah i'm proud of you i bet they're proud of you yes yeah and you got control of something that needed to be getting control of bad i can tell yes yes what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is if i can survive cancer move through an adoption cash flow a bachelor's degree and part of a grad school degree that i quit because i just decided i was tired of paying for it um if i can do it through all of that anybody can do it amen so persevere is the answer yes yes just don't quit yes 67 or five years six months 67,005 years yes that's a long slog kiddo it was but uh the good news is is you have control of you.
And now you have control of this subject that owns so many people. And now you own it.
It doesn't own you anymore. So, fabulously done, kiddo.
Dude, in anything that comes your way in the future, you're going to be able to smile and say, just buckle up because I've already been through worse than you. That's awesome.
Buckle up.

Warrior princess, kiddo.

Well done. That's my child screaming.

Very well done.

I thought it was Dave for a second, then I realized it was your kid.

No, that's mine.

It could be one of the personalities out there.

That's all right.

It's George Campbell out there.

George.

George, behave.

Hey, I'm really proud of you.

It's awesome.

Thank you.

Hey, all right, Katie.

Count it down.

$67,000 paid off in five years, making $45,000 to $67,000. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.
I'm debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Some of them feel stronger than others. I like it.
Love it. Ah, thank you, Lord.
This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, good news.
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That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at RamseySolutions.com slash store.
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If you're running a business or you know someone that is, there's one thing we know. When you're on your own business, it's hard.
When you go to work for yourself, you discover your boss is a slave driver. They will work you like a rented mule.
I mean, it's bad, y'all's the hardest i ever worked for my in my life is working for myself and you just run run run run go go go go go it's tough man and hey guys you can move through the small business stages there's five stages of small business and uh we've worked through them at ramsey we've worked through them with 10 000 small businesses. And so we put together a book to show you how to do that.
This is the baby steps for small business. It's called Build a Business You Love.
It comes out April the 15th. If you pre-order it now for $29.99, you get over $350 in free bonus items, including instant access to the Entree Leadership Hiring Playbook, the number one pain point of small business people, hiring and firing their people, dealing with people.
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You're going to love this audio book. It's way different.
Pre-order all of this at RamseySolutions.com slash store or click the link in the description on the YouTube or podcast. Nikki's in St.
Louis. Hey, Nikki, what's up in your world? Hi, Ramsey Show.
It's so great to be on here. Thank you so much.
Well, thank you. How can we help? So I have $260,000 in federal student loan debt.

Good Lord.

For what?

Well, I have a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering, and I have a Master's in Engineering Management. Great.
How much do you make? So that's the catch. I was working in the field, and once 2021 hit, I had my daughter in the absence of her father.
He passed away. So I kind of had to step back from the field for a little while and focus on my motherhood.
But I'm ready now to come back, and I'm back in chaos in the economy that I just feel like is not working for engineering. Oh, bull crap.
No, for a mother, a single mother, balancing that together. Well, you can't not work.
You have to work. But if you go to work, engineering is an exploding field right now.
And you've got more degrees than a thermometer. You need to go make some money.
Right. You desperately need to make up.
You need to be making $200,000. $200,000, okay.
Yesterday. What is the deal? What are you waiting on? I don't understand.
Well, this is the thing. I am trying to figure out.
I've been interviewing, and it's like I'll get close to a yes, but as soon as this, oh, we may need you to stay in, we may need you to be on call. And as an engineer, that's kind of like the livelihood before my motherhood kicked in, being on call and being available, which I've always been able to, but now that you're a mom, a single mom at that, you have to not be available at those times.
You have to take care of the child. You do, but you're, A, going back to grad school isn't going to solve that problem, and B, you're fishing in a very small pond.
Do you get what I'm saying? What do you mean by fishing small ponds? I'm saying you are continually looking for the same jobs and the same type of engineering place, right? That's going to always come back to. It's like me.
If I want to go back to being a dean of students, but I don't want to be on call, I can't have that job because that's the important part of that job. But if I want to work at a university, I'm going to have to broaden what I'm looking at with my skill set.
Do you get what I'm saying? You're an engineer. You can do stuff that Dave and I can't do because you have a license.
You can go do amazing things. But you're going to have to broaden your picture of what being an engineer is like.
Or... But it may not be direct or indirect.
It could be indirectly related, but still... Of course.
You've got a... You've got...
You're able to... They taught you how to solve problems.
$260,000 in debt. Yeah.
And by the way, I'm telling you this because I love you. I sat with what I would call, we called when I was a graduate school professor, perpetual students who kept going for the next license, the next degree, the next thing.
Exactly. Not as a way, I had to get another degree

because my field I felt was closing

and I needed a licensure.

You are just trying to avoid the grind that is,

if you want to make $200,000,

a business wants you to work that hard.

And that just stinks.

It's hard.

And I think you can.

And listen, if you talk to people in an interview

like you've been talking to us,

you're never going to get hired.

I wouldn't hire you. You want to know why? Why? Because you told me six times how you had to take care of this baby.
And I know you're a single mom. I know you need to take care of your baby.
That is first. There's no question about that.
As soon as I know you're a single mom and you have a baby, anybody who's got a human brain knows that's your first priority. But don't tell me that six times because what that tells me is you're not going to be reliable.
It tells me you're not coming to work. It tells me you're coming to work for what you can get rather than what you can give.
You're not here to add value to the organization. You're here to extract value with as little work and as little availability as possible.
You're not getting hired. You got to change your attitude about what can I add? can i be enthusiastic what can i how can i add value to this organization and that is the best way you can serve your child and is getting rid of this 260 000 worth of debt that's it it's looking at you have some you have extensive liabilities out on your family for this for this thing so you think just being present with this kid is greatest gift.
The greatest gift you can give that kid, yes, is your presence, but like having a house with peace in it. And you're in for over a quarter million dollars.
You have no peace. And so you can find a high school kid, a college kid in your local community who will be on call with you.
I'm going to pay you 25 bucks an hour, 30 bucks an hour, 50 bucks an hour to come over on those rare nights I get called. And you come over to my house within an hour, and you're like, I need you here.
I actually have four of them. Got it.
On call. So that if one of them is on a date, you can still get another one over there.
And you can overly pay them. And so then maybe you get burned a few times.
You have to spend some money. And instead of making $200,000, you make $190,000.
You're 190 you're still really winning and your debts paid off in two years you being at home full time and rocking this baby nine eight eight nine hours a day is not an option for you anymore you gave that up when you signed up for 260 000 now you've got to solve big boy and big girl problems yeah and so the the sad situation of where you are and the loss of your husband is leaving you with no choices. I'm so sorry.
Please don't go get another degree. Please don't.
And please lean into the fabulous degrees and brain that you have. You have an incredible brain.
I mean, dumb people can't get these degrees that you have. I mean, you get a dadgum master's in chemistry, was it? Yeah.
Oh, my gosh. I mean, you can do any kind of math.
Well, here's the other thing. You probably had an arrangement with your husband that one day this was going to be how this was.
Right? Maybe you're going to be a stay-at-home mom. Maybe you're going to work part-time.
And there's something about grieving the end of that dream, too. Because he passed away.
I know you've grieved his loss and all that. there's this moment now, and now I've got a kid, and now I've got this.
It just stinks, man. It's heartbreaking.
Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Go get it. Go get it.
Go get it. Go get it.
Yeah, you can do this. It is doable for you, but that's the trick, Nikki.
You're going to have to lean in and make a career now while you find some alternative and different ways to work through the motherhood thing. So, I mean, it's not unusual at all for someone making $200,000 or even $300,000 a year to have a full-time nanny.
Absolutely. That's what you've got to have.
If that's what you have. Or an overnight nanny.
If that's what you have to have. Yeah.
Or somebody that or somebody that's on quote on call unquote but um yeah you're trying to do six things at once and you're gonna have to choose one and um i'm telling you you've got the tools in your belt to make serious money and if i were you not because money's important but because getting the freedom from that student loan is important once you're free from that if you want to job making $100 instead of $300 and that gives you more flexibility, fine. I got no issue with that at all.
But you've got to clean this mess up for your sake, for your sake. And for everyone out there listening, getting another degree, getting degrees to the tune of $260,000, there is no time in life that that works out.

Zero.

There's only one way that works out, and that never happens, and that's if your plan works exactly like you thought it was going to work.

She didn't think when she took out $260,000 worth to pile up degrees like a thermometer that she was going to end up being a single mom because her husband passed away. That wasn't on her plan.
That was not on her bingo card. Well, guess what? Your life that comes at you is not on your bingo card.
You don't know what's going to come. That's why you don't go take out these kinds of loans.
Well, it's always a good investment. No, it's not a good investment.
It's a trap. And it's a sin that our government does this to its own people.