Panic Never Leads to Peace

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Thank you for joining us, America.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat, a long-form interview show where he really gets into it with successful and famous people.

And you will learn a lot from that process.

Be sure to join him there.

He's going to help me out today.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Ashley's in Birmingham.

Hi, Ashley.

How are you?

Hey, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I just had a question if me and my husband should sell our house after a recent robbery.

Wow.

Well,

that's pretty emotionally damaging.

You feel violated at a whole different level, don't you?

We do.

We do.

Thankfully, it wasn't the inside of their house.

They didn't breach the inside, but they broke into our backyard and stole all of my husband's lawn equipment.

Okay.

Well, that's a weird robber.

What do I want?

A lawnmower.

Yeah, I'm thinking, what is this?

Kids?

Who steals a lawnmower?

Well, that's kind of my point.

So I'm 25.

My husband's 27.

We've been married since April of this year, and I bought my house in February of 2024.

So we haven't lived in it long.

My husband just moved in after we got married.

And now this incident has happened that So is this indicative of the neighborhood being trashy?

Or is this just a one-off weird thing?

I don't believe so.

We live in Birmingham.

I know, but there's trashy areas like there is in Birmingham, like any area of the country.

Any city has them.

Right.

We, I mean, I don't believe so.

It's definitely an up-and-coming area.

All the houses range from probably $200,000 to $400,000.

Is there a crime problem in your neighborhood?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay.

So this is a one-off weird thing.

Right.

As far as I'm aware, yes.

And we filed a police report and we asked the policeman the same thing, and that's what he had said as well.

So why would you sell?

You wouldn't sell because of one single incident that is not an indicator of what's really going on around there.

It's a one-off anomaly.

No, you don't sell baseline.

Right.

If you tell me, look, my neighbor's car got broke into, some bozo shot down the street the other night at each other, yeah, move, okay?

But you're just telling me no one else in the area had a problem.

Somebody stole your lawnmower.

Right.

Yeah, well, that's my point.

My husband is, you know, a great godly man, and he wants you protective.

So he just feels...

He feels violated.

He feels like we're not safe anymore and he wants to sell, even though I really haven't lived in the house long enough.

I would like to.

That's not the point.

How long you've lived in it doesn't matter.

If you're unsafe, you leave.

But you're not unsafe based on what you're telling me.

So he's not being logical.

He's being a drama queen about his lawnmower getting stolen.

Okay.

Okay.

I mean, it's what you're telling me.

You're telling me that.

I'm not.

Am I missing?

I mean, look, okay,

I live in a gated neighborhood, very expensive homes that run from...

one and a half to ten million dollars.

Okay.

Somebody broke into one of those houses and went to the safe and stole the guy's guns and jewelry and got into the safe.

Obviously an inside job based on the fingerprints that are all over the thing, so to speak.

I ain't moving.

I'm not moving.

Okay.

One of their, somebody that was helping them at that house or something got into that house.

We do not live in a crime-infested neighborhood.

My neighbor got broken into and I'm not moving.

There's no crime problem, I promise you, in this neighborhood, okay, that I'm talking about.

So, no, no, I mean, you're telling me there's no crime problem, but you had a one-off, and it's a kind of unusual one-off.

You have to admit, if you're stealing lawnmowers, you're pretty low on the totem pole of thieves.

Right.

It sounds almost like teenagers or something goofing off.

When you find them in a ditch down the street, I'm curious.

I'm trying to, as Dave's talking, I'm just going, okay, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes because you got to handle this delicately

because you can't tell him what Dave said about him, you know but i don't think yeah you can you tell him dave said he's a drama queen yeah that you said it she can't say that i here's what have the police said on this deal are there leads i just don't feel like we got the whole story

are we missing any details

No, not that I'm aware of.

The house is across the street from the gas station or a gas station, and that has made my husband nervous since I bought it, but we've never had any issues beyond this.

It's on a main road, so a lot of people can

How much financial loss in all that lawn equipment?

Is it just one lawnmower or is it more?

You got insurance on it.

I know.

I'm just asking some questions.

Listen, I think I have a different take than Dave.

I on this one.

I think if your husband's wigged out by this, whether it's a one-off or not, I think you guys have got to process this a little bit more.

And if it were me, I would want to know a whole lot more about suspects.

You know,

I think this area is probably a little bit more sketchy than you're leading on.

That's what I think.

I could be wrong.

I don't think this is like a super nice area of Birmingham.

And so if they targeted you once, they may target other places.

I just would give it a little bit more conversation with your husband.

I also get your point that I don't want to necessarily move this house right away.

So I'm with Dave.

I wouldn't just up and throw a sign in the yard, but I would talk about it a little bit more and figure out what's going on.

I just don't feel like we're getting everywhere.

When you're in an emotional situation, facts are your friends.

Yeah.

So i'll go with you on that ken you need to gather more facts yeah but um i i i just sensing an emotional reaction to a situation that's not that the emotions don't match the facts that i've been given yeah that's right i think that's absolutely right and so and let me tell you when you get stolen from whether it's out of your yard or out of your closet it it's emotional it's a there's a sense of violation yeah that especially when it's in your personal residence that um is a big big deal.

I mean,

and, you know, some people in some areas are more than others, but

she's a southerner, he's a southerner, I'm a southerner.

We don't put up with this crap.

We got no, this law and order stuff is a big deal to people like us.

So, yeah, I get it.

I understand that.

But I kind of think moving is a little bit of an overreaction to the information I've been given.

I agree with that.

But I do, I'll go with you.

Let's gather some more facts.

And based on the facts, make the decision, Ashley.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

But the facts you gave us do not indicate selling the house.

Yeah.

That's what I'll go with.

All right.

Anyway, that's the deal.

Let me put that back on.

Hold because we only got a second time.

So that's interesting.

I haven't had that in a long time.

But it does remind you that you need to do stuff like

your property and casualty.

You need to know what's going on with your homeowners' insurance.

What is covered?

Because most homeowners' insurance policies cover contents for theft and fire as a general amount.

If you have an expensive item or two, which this would not be, this would have been covered under the thing I'm talking about.

But like, say, for instance, you knew somebody had too many guns, you'd want to list those as a separate schedule and pay a little extra premium to cover the gun collection.

Yeah.

Okay.

That kind of a thing.

And let's talk about home security.

Which also

said that wrong.

There's no such thing as too many guns.

But

if you knew someone that was trying trying to attempt to hit that number, yeah.

Yeah, and I would beef up security and let these guys know we're not going to put up with this.

I think there's steps you can take before selling the house.

Yeah, the little sign that says you're on video, so we can have the tape of when we shot you.

Yeah, that's right.

So it'll hold up in a court of law.

Mama, papa, mi cuerpo crece a unrimo alarmante.

Y la ropa que me compre nora, me que dora muy pe queña, very pronto.

Pero subilletera no tinen que suffri por la moda con los precios vajos de la vuenta clas de Amazon.

Amazon, las tamenos sonriemas.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids, pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance.

And I'm like, I can't even imagine.

Or even if it was opposite, right?

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford childcare?

How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

Like, when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills

next week.

Yeah.

In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just, it is, it's terrible.

And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.

Like, there's something.

about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens.

And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Shay is with us in Canada.

Hi, Shay.

Welcome to the show.

How can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

I have a quick question, I hope.

I can't use the premium version of Every Dollar because I'm waiting for you to drop it in Canada.

But until then, I'm trying to manually use it.

Canada's waiting for us to

conform to crap we're not going to conform to.

So it's not my fault.

It's Canada's fault.

But anyway.

Oh, I believe it.

I'm American, actually.

I just lived here.

But so I have an emergency fund.

I'm a single single mom.

And with my two kids, I try to keep a couple sinking funds because like I have like an SOS one, I call it, and it's about $1,000.

And that's just for like a light emergency.

Like, oh, my kid, you know, needs to go to the dentist or something.

And it's going to cost me $600.

So I have like that set aside.

And then I have like a $500 sinking fund for like, I call it kid crap.

It's just kid stuff.

Like

back to the business.

Both of these got used by the kids.

What happened i'm confused

well they always need stuff

yeah why don't you just put that in the budget

um

i don't because i was trying to keep it separate so no i'm just saying you need to put the kid crap in the budget that's part of operating your household okay so not like a sinking fund just you can have a sinking fund you can have an emergency fund but the kids should not be creating emergencies you should have a predictable environment

They are so unpredictable.

No, they're not.

I raised three of them.

They become very predictable when you start telling them, no, it's not in the budget because you didn't tell me about it.

I know, but they, like, he loses a shoe and then I'm short a shoe and now I have to go pay $40 to get a pair of shoes.

It just, I feel like every week I'm getting slapped with something from them.

Kids' clothing has events like that, and that should be in your budget, honey.

Okay.

It's not an emergency.

A lost shoe is not an emergency.

How do you budget for something that's so flexible like that?

You set aside an amount because throughout the year you're going to have a kid tear up a piece of clothing, lose a piece of clothing, lose a shoe.

That's part of having kids.

They forget stuff and leave it laying around.

And

every weekend when the grandkids leave the lake house, we have to load a bucket full of stuff they forgot to take home, and I bring it back to the office and give it out to the different kids here.

So kids just leave stuff.

I got Crocs, I got swimsuits, I got sunglasses, I got all kinds of crap.

And I'm bringing it all back every time.

So

they can leave it again the next weekend.

But

I get you.

But the point is, that's just part of the rhythm of life when you've got littles.

Yeah.

And that's where I'm feeling the pressure because I feel like I'm living paycheck to paycheck.

What do you make?

About $6,000 take-home.

A month.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

$72,000 a year.

All right.

You ought to be able to live on that.

Yeah,

I live in an expensive city, so I have about $4,100 going out,

and I'm trying to do the debt snowball.

So then I feel like when I have to use money for the kids or

a minor emergency,

I never know how to put the money back.

So again, one of the rules of your budget is your budget has to reflect reality, not what you wish reality is.

And what you wish reality is, is that the kid didn't tear up or leave or lose pieces of clothing but they do because they're kids and so you're just gonna have to say all right the kids clothing budget includes some loss

okay and you just you're not you're not budgeting enough for kids clothes and so you need to change your budget and it reflects reality then and also i'm going to come down on them if they're constantly losing stuff i mean if you're losing something expensive like you know you lose a couple of you know one of two air jordans i mean me we're going to have a problem in this house okay so yeah we stop with it there's no air jordan I know, but I'm just saying, if they're doing something that's way irresponsible, they're being raised by a single mom, a warrior princess, and she's trying to get jobs done so they can conform and have a little bit more discipline and be a little bit more responsible, too.

That's okay to call them out on that.

But overall, it sounds like you're just not reflecting the reality of your life in your budget.

So here's an example we used to do, Shay, that was similar, and we had to correct it.

That's how I know it.

Okay.

I was driving a car that had a pretty consistent pattern of needing repairs, but I was in denial about it.

And so the repairs always landed in the emergency column, and they weren't really emergencies.

They were really predictable.

And so what I did finally, after I admitted to myself that that's what was going on, is if I'm going to drive a car that breaks down, I'm going to have to have more in the car repair line item in my budget so that I don't get bit by this.

Yeah, I mean, we had we have three kids, and the boys were growing rapidly.

And so we had to sit down and adjust our budget and we looked at, okay, what do we think the entire year, all three kids, what do we think we're going to put out for clothing?

And it's a very simple process.

You just got to try it and get it right, get it wrong, and then, you know, divide it by 12.

And to Dave's point, you're putting that away so that's no longer stress for you.

It's really simplifying.

And right now it feels complex because you haven't allowed for it.

So then something pops up and now it's creating stress.

So simplifying, as Dave told you, is also going to take away that emotion that you're feeling.

Like, oh, I can't keep up with this.

When in all reality, you can.

Yeah, it's very doable.

Sarah's in Milwaukee.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing great.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I have been listening to your show for the last few weeks and really trying to sit down and think about next steps.

Cool.

And my husband and I just got married in January.

We bought our home about a year ago

and just trying to figure out everything financially.

Right now, I have $10,000 in savings

and kind of just going through all my debt and kind of just saying, okay,

what should I tackle first?

What about retirement?

Like, there's just so many questions, but really just what to battle first.

Okay.

All right.

How much debt do you guys have?

So right now, $15,000 in credit card debt.

$11,000 I still owe on my car.

He does not owe anything on his.

I have $30,000 left in student loan.

Our home, we put $50,000 down, so we don't have any PMI, so we owe $170,000

on our home.

What's your household income?

It is $140,000 combined right now.

Phenomenal.

Way to go.

You guys got a great start.

Like you said, you've got to clean up some debt.

So,

Sarah, what we've been teaching for a long time to great success is the simple concept of the fastest way to become wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt.

Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income.

And when you give it all away to student loans, credit cards, and car payments, you don't have any money to become wealthy with or to be generous with.

Pretty simple math thing, okay?

If you give your money away, you don't have as much.

It's that simple, right?

So we've got to get rid of that blocker that's blocking you from becoming wealthy.

You make a good income.

You have the opportunity to join hands literally and figuratively and financially with the person you just married.

So the two of you can sit down tonight and say we are going to together set some goals and we're going to attack this debt so that

we can become wealthy, so that we can live like no one else, so that later we can live and give like no one else, so we can have a great life, in other words, okay?

So all of that, that's the underlying premise.

And then what we figured out is that people need an order to attack these things.

And somewhere around 30 years ago, we started teaching people to work what we call the baby steps.

You may have heard that already.

And the baby steps are the first thing you have is $1,000 in the bank.

You've already got $10,000.

Okay?

But $1,000 is all you need for right now.

So we're going to take nine of that and apply it to baby step two.

Baby step two is you list all of your debts, smallest to largest.

You pay minimum payments, the normal payment on everything but the little one, and you attack the little one with everything you can squeeze out of your budget and with $9,000.

So I'm going to take the first $9,000 of your smallest credit cards and pay them all off and cut them up tonight with your husband, and I'm going to have $1,000.

Then I'm going to beat the snot out of this debt in the next six months and get rid of it, all of it.

And then, when you don't have any payments, I'm going to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

Take the thousand dollar account, raise it back up to a good, solid savings account.

Then, baby step four: start putting 15% of your income away for retirement.

If you do this, in seven to ten years, you will be debt-free, house and everything, and have close to a million-dollar net worth.

I'll show you how to do it.

I'm going to send you a total money makeover book as my gift.

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

So much, George.

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names.

And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

Don't like that.

And just a year ago, get this.

The average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online.

Now it's over 600.

It has doubled in a year.

You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in phishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment.

That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

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Exactly.

And this is not being paranoid.

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And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240 listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it.

I love it.

And you guys, in a world where strangers can Google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal.

A lot of drama around real estate.

And as Dr.

John Deloney says, when you're facing drama or a crisis, facts are your friends.

So what are the facts in the real estate business?

Not what is somebody on TikTok saying.

What are the actual facts?

Not what your broke mother-in-law with an opinion said.

What are the actual facts about real estate?

Well, the facts are there's 1,082,520 homes on the market in the United States right now.

That is the highest inventory of homes for sale available since 2019.

However, demand is still exceeding the inventory, so that means prices have not gone down, nor will they, unless inventory exceeded demand.

That's the only time you see prices drop in any commodity, including housing.

So these are basic facts.

And the median home price today is $441,000 in America.

It's gone up just a tiny bit every month this year, like $1,000 or something.

Nothing.

So home prices are steady to trending barely up.

Those are the facts.

The facts are interest rates are exactly where they were, 5.95 right now, so under 6% for a 15-year fixed rate.

So all in all, It's a really good time to buy a piece of real estate or sell a piece of real estate.

If you're ready, if you're out of debt, you got your emergency fund, you got a down payment, all in all, that's the facts.

You're okay.

And if you need to sell a house right now, it's nothing to panic about.

There's people buying houses, and you know, it's happening.

So, if you want to learn more about all this, go to ramseysolutions.com/slash market or click the link in the show notes, and we'll help you out that way.

Ashley's in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Ashley, what's up?

Hi, Dave.

I'm Ken.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

My husband and I are both.

Yeah, my husband and I are both in our mid-30s and just had our first baby.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm currently on maternity.

Very exciting.

I'm currently on maternity leave and trying to decide whether to go back to work or stay home with our baby.

Financially, we can afford for me to stay home.

We're debt-free, including our home, have an emergency fund, and we've been pretty disciplined about saving and investing.

But we're torn because of a couple of other factors.

The first is that we both work in tech and with how fast AI is moving, we're concerned that our jobs could change or even disappear in the future.

So part of us feels like we should double down on income and savings now while we can.

I'm also worried that if I step away now, it could be tough to re-enter the workforce later on.

If I decide to, once we're done having kids and they're older, I don't know that I'd be able to get back to the same level I'm at now.

So, my question is: since we can afford either path, how would you think through this decision?

Well, first question I have is: forget everything you just threw out in those two concern buckets.

What does your heart want to do?

What do you want to do?

Let's start start there.

Ideal.

Sure.

I guess nothing could replace the time with our children or our future children.

So, you know, my heart's leaning towards staying home with our baby.

All right, so we start there.

That's your ideal situation.

Now, let's take the first bucket.

You both work in tech.

AI is what you're thinking about because everybody's wondering how is AI going to shake out?

How is it going to affect tech jobs?

Will it spin off new jobs?

One of the things I would do because you're both in tech and you have knowledge of where tech is now, you probably have knowledge of where you think it's going.

People that may be more advanced than you guys are, I would be talking, getting a lot of feedback, almost like a Halloween candy bucket, knocking on doors, getting a lot of candy.

I'd get a lot of real, legitimate feedback, not headlines, not people that are driving clicks.

And I would look at what does the future look like.

Personally, I was on Fox Business probably three weeks ago.

One of the topics they asked me about was what do I think about AI and it removing jobs.

And that morning, I had done some research, and I went all the way back to the printing press in history.

And I'll save you the entire study that I did in about 30 minutes.

And I looked at what the media of the day and what the hand-wringing and the pearl clutching of the day was around all these advances in technology from the printing press to where we stand today.

And here's what's crazy, Ashley.

It all sounded the exact same.

The alarm was it's going to kill jobs.

And throughout history, what we saw is there was some recession of jobs in the immediate, but it always spun off more jobs.

And I think AI is going to do the same thing.

And that's just me doing some historical homework and talking to people that are experts in the industry.

And I think it's going to spin off a lot.

So that, but do your own homework on bucket one.

Bucket two is: can I re-enter, let's say, 18 years from now if I want want to?

And I've coached a lot of moms on this particular issue, and the answer is you can.

Now, will you have to get some additional qualification if the puck has moved over 18 years and it's understandable that it might?

Yes, but to be completely outdated, I'm not valuable.

I have no skill.

I have no experience.

That's a bunch of garbage.

And that's not true.

So with staying

kind of a finger on the pulse,

maybe 14 years in and going, okay, I think four years from now, I feel good.

I want to come back.

You got enough time to upskill.

And if you keep relationships, I think you'd be fine.

That's my take on those two buckets.

Yeah.

Take AI out of it.

If you went back just 10 years

and you stepped out of the technology market and you tried to step back in today,

you'd have to retool.

Right.

What you would be, you know, what were we using 10 years ago?

Coal fusion.

Nobody uses uses coal fusion today.

And so you would have been, you probably,

if you were writing code, you might have been proficient in coal fusion, which is now a dinosaur.

Nobody uses it.

Okay.

You know what I'm talking about, right?

And so, and, you know, by the way, nobody's, very few people are housing servers in their offices anymore.

10 years ago, I had a room with an air conditioner in it full of servers.

Today I don't have one.

Everything's in the cloud.

And I've got a much bigger operation than I did 10 years ago.

So technology shifted in hardware, software,

the internet.

So anytime something comes along that is a disruptor and that has a high rate of change like technology does, like the internet, the appearance of the internet was supposed to put entire segments of the culture out of business.

Instead, it created, to Ken's point, a lot of new jobs.

There was no such thing as someone who built websites prior to the Internet.

And while the Internet might have put out some kind of job, it created a whole bunch of people that built websites.

And there was no such thing as email.

And so, you know, did the postal carriers all go out of business?

No,

not because of email, you know, and there was no such thing as, and keep filling in the blank.

So 100% chance, the knowledge that you have today, whether you stay in the market or whether you go home, the knowledge you're using today is going to be irrelevant 10 years from now.

Right.

Yeah.

So either way, you're going to either stay up with the market by staying in the market, or you're going to retool when you get ready to head back into the market.

So given all of that, if I'm you and hearing what you said about wanting to be at home, I'm staying home.

The only thing driving you to not stay home is fear about your career.

And fear is not a good decision-making tool.

And in this case, it's not accurate because you have to, you're going to have to stay up with change or retool to hit change no matter what.

We live in the highest rate of change environment in the history of mankind.

The change rate in transportation in the last 50 years, the change rate in communication in the last 50 years is more than the 500 years previous.

So that's the environment that we all live in.

And so he who hates change is screwed.

That's what it amounts to.

You better embrace it.

And I hate it.

I'm like everybody else.

I just got another computer and they put new stuff on my computer and I'm pissed off again, trying to figure out how to run it.

You know, and it takes me a little while to get through the frustration of the learning curve.

And then they'll give me another, it'll be a download for Apple version 87.46 or whatever the crap it is.

And now I gotta, now my iPhone doesn't work anymore the way it used to.

Now I gotta figure out all that because they were trying to help me.

You're killing me.

But that's the world we all live in: this rate of change.

If I had sat down in 1975 in a car that I drive today, I wouldn't have known how to start it.

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Brandon's in Knoxville.

Hi, Brandon.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave, good to talk to you.

How you doing?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

I just had a pretty quick question.

Me and my wife decided that we're going to sell our house and be moving back to our hometown in Florida.

Our house is actually listed below the median price here in East Tennessee.

And

in almost three months, we've only had four showings.

And I was just wondering if you thought that was normal.

No.

Well, I mean, it depends.

What's the price?

The price of our house right now is $364.9.

Okay.

And

what are the comparable sales in your area?

I couldn't give a crap less what the median price in East Tennessee is because there's million-dollar houses and there's $100,000 houses and there's neighborhoods associated with both.

What is your house appraised at?

So our house was appraised at about around $400 is what it was appraised at.

By who?

And then when

our realtor did comps on it,

she said that listing at $3.99

was an accurate pricing,

which, again, it's more than fair because we bought during 2020.

So it's more than

what do the pictures look like?

The pictures they took and put on the internet.

We got a professional photographer.

He did the whole new 360 camera walkthrough thing.

Yeah, did he expose the ugly?

I mean, is the house ugly from the street?

No, I mean, everything looks great.

I've put a lot of of work into it.

I've redone just about anything you can imagine in it.

Everything looks good.

The landscaping looks good.

We just, we've only gotten four showings, and I'm just, I'm not sure.

Are you in an outlying area?

I'm actually right by one of the major airports over here,

pretty much near right next to the city of Knoxville.

I mean, we're in a great location.

It's right next to

college.

Yes.

Okay.

So you're not in Knoxville, you're in Alcoa.

Yeah,

the girl asked, and I'll tell you she's.

That's okay.

That's fine.

I was born in Maryland.

I was born in Maryland.

Oh, were you really?

Wow, okay.

Yeah, so I actually know where you are.

Oh, that market's booming.

That market, that topside road, all that stuff is booming.

And you've had a lot of good industry move in there.

And so there shouldn't, and your price, you are a

mid-range price.

And that thing should, yeah, there's a problem.

Have you asked the real estate agent why it's not being shown?

I'm sure you have.

I've asked, and here's another question I had.

Do you think a month and a half to do the first open house was way too long?

Open houses usually don't sell anybody but the seller.

Okay.

Number of times you sell a house at an open house is fairly low.

I'm wondering if your real estate agent,

how many houses did your real estate agent sell last year?

I'm going to be completely honest with you.

I don't know.

It's a family friend that I went with.

Oh.

Well, what was her answer?

You never answered Dave's question on what did she say?

Why did she say it's not selling?

Yeah.

Oh, I'm sorry.

It's okay.

She just said to be patient.

She said it's the market that's being slow.

I ended up doing my own comps with actually a friend of mine that does real estate.

And

they actually two of them, and they both said they don't have any idea why in the world it wouldn't even get more than 10 showings by now.

So it's not, we don't think it's price.

We don't think it's ugly.

We don't think it's the location.

It's not ugly.

We don't think it's the location.

It's not far out.

Location is good.

Should they be doing more

online advertising or how should a realtor be doing that?

Yeah, here's what I'm concerned about.

The only other thing I can think of is

when you said family friend, I went gulp because that's not how you select a real estate agent.

You select a real estate agent by getting a high-octane, high-protein, high-performer, because this is a huge asset, and you're hiring a marketing consultant, and they need to actually sell like, you know, 50 to 200 houses a year, or you shouldn't be using them to sell your house.

So I'm afraid this person might be selling three houses a year, and there's no personal momentum around them, around their company, around their name and so when another real estate agent that is high octane sees that sign versus a different sign they're they're not giving it due because the person that's got it listed i'm afraid you got a weak sister so to speak with a sign in the yard so um you might want to change just on that basis and not not because i don't think they're doing horrible but i just don't think they're doing it and you've obviously said that and you've got that concern so i i think you just call them up and say hey listen um in in the name of preserving our friendship, I'm becoming very frustrated and I think we need to separate.

I know you tried.

Thank you for that, but I need to try something else now.

And otherwise, I'm afraid I'm going to become extremely frustrated and I don't want to damage our friendship.

So we're going to try something else and thank you for trying.

Yeah, fair enough.

I agree.

And I messed up because

This is the first house I've ever had to sell, so I've never had to do that.

That's okay.

That's okay.

A lot of people do this.

But if I hired you, if you worked for me and you were to select a consultant to assist with a $400,000 asset and you selected a consultant who doesn't do it very much, I would fire you.

You see what I'm doing?

Because you hired somebody that's not got a proven track record in the marketplace.

So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on real estate.

Find one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

There's several in your area.

Interview two or three of them and interview them like you're hiring a marketing consultant that you're going to pay 20 grand to because you are.

And so you ought to get, they ought to come in with a presentation about how awesome they are and how much volume they move and what the marketing plan is to move your property.

And they ought to earn your business by their professionalism and their productivity.

And that's how you would hire a good marketing consultant.

That's how you hire a real estate agent.

So 85% of the real estate agents people are not in the business three years after they start.

The average income earning of a real estate agent in America today is $36,000

because they go get their license and they sell one or two houses a year.

You do not want those people selling your house.

I don't care if it's your Uncle Charlie.

He's sweet Uncle Charlie.

He sucks as a real estate agent.

I don't care if it's Gilda Gilda down at the church.

I'm sure Gilda's a sweet little church lady,

but she sucks as a real estate agent.

You don't hire Gilda.

That's not, don't hire Uncle Charlie.

Don't hire Gilda.

And people do this all the time.

And sometimes the people that get their license and their brand new friends and their old friends and new licenses, they get pissed off if you don't use them.

I've had a real estate license since I was 18.

I listed our house with one of our Ramsey Trusted things

people many years ago, and one of our friends got mad at me.

And I'm like, well, there's like three people in line in front of you.

A, the guy who listed it.

B, me with a license before we would get to you who doesn't sell any houses.

So you just sit over there in your house and be pissed off.

That's just dumb.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, no, we're not doing that.

That's so, but that's, Brandon, you did what everybody else does.

And so I think you just go gently and kindly correct the situation, interview like you were hiring a professional marketing consultant for a piece of real estate because that's what a real estate agent is.

And then you get someone that you can connect to and that is very convincing of their productivity and their proclivity, their competence, their high octane.

They move property.

And someone wants to sell a house, then maybe they ought to have sold a house

like 50 times last year or 100 times last year.

You know what stuck out to me is the first answer to Brandon's question, legitimate question was be patient.

That tells me that the reason that she said to be patient is because she's a little too patient.

I'm thinking of the lady that Stacey and I have used for a long time.

She's one of the top producers in all of Tennessee, top two or three in this area.

And she is not someone I would describe as patient.

And there is a time and place for patience, but that should have not been the first bullet fired to his question.

That's a warning sign.

And that, to your point, is a wiring issue.

It's a results issue.

Yeah.

I listen for things like that.

It might not be the real estate agent here.

It might not.

We don't know.

This could be a high-producing real estate agent.

We don't have the numbers on this agent, but we do know he's unhappy with her, so let's change horses.

Yeah, it's okay, nothing wrong with that.

I've seen people do everything possible to get out of debt, selling stuff, starting side hustles, canceling subscriptions, giving up eating at restaurants, even turning off the air conditioner in the summer and sweating through it.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America.

We're glad you're here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Nicole is in Colorado.

Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

I'm well.

How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So I had a question about kind of like an in-between baby step thing.

So essentially, we have a couple larger lump sum amounts that should be coming into our possession within the next few months.

And I wanted to know whether I should just throw all of it to the remaining student loan debt, which is the only debt we have, or if we should split it, putting some towards a potential down payment and then the rest towards the student loan,

kind of building both things simultaneously.

So, how long have you been working to get out of debt?

Relatively recently, my student loans were in deferment with all the COVID stuff and everything like that.

And then, my husband, the union contract, through his job, finally reached an agreement.

So, he has a bunch of back pay coming in, and we have a sizable

tax return that should be coming in.

And so it will.

So you just started a system, and then I'm going to poke at you.

Are you ready to be poked?

Oh, yeah.

And then your first thing is to cheat the system

via the home buying process.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't need to be buying a house till you're out of debt.

And so we need to put it all on the debt so we can get the debt cleared.

How much debt do you have?

Less than $24,000.

And how much does all this back pay and taxes amount to?

It should reach about $25.

Oh, so you can pay everything off.

The other issue is that we have two vehicles that are completely paid off,

old buy-outright sort of things, but they need some work, so there's no way I can actually put all of that into the debt because...

Why, are they not running?

Well, they are functional.

Good.

Put it all on the debt.

Quit screwing around with this.

Get out of debt.

It's the thing holding you back from everything.

Now that you're out of debt, what's your household income?

Let's see here.

Our household income

before or after taxes and insurance and such, afterwards would be take-home of $53,000 roughly.

Okay.

But you're debt insurance coming out of that and taxes, too much in taxes coming out because you got a tax refund.

Oh, so

before taxes and insurance, it's about $71,000.

Okay.

All right.

And so what repairs need to be done to the car and what do they cost?

So I just called and got a quote the other day for the biggest thing, which is like the timing belt and a water pump.

And then I also have an O2 sensor, which is affecting acceleration.

And so that should probably come out to be about 25 to 3 grand.

Or 25.

O2 sensor is not that.

The timing belt is.

Yeah.

The O2 sensor is almost nothing.

Yeah, but the timing belt is the bigger.

Yeah, run and get the O2 sensor fixed out of your budget, and then start saving in the next month.

Go ahead and do the timing belt.

You can do it in a month.

Okay.

And let's get them fixed and get them going, keep things running.

Now you're out of debt and then you need to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then you need to save for a down payment.

Okay.

And that's what we teach and you already knew that.

Yeah, I was trying to listen to as many as possible to kind of get an idea if anybody else asked my exact same question.

Okay.

No, I mean, you knew the process, though, was that we get out of debt and have an emergency fund before we buy a house, didn't you?

Yes.

Okay.

I won't, yeah.

Yeah, you knew that, and you've been listening long enough to know that part.

And so let's just stick to that.

And that's going to be your shortest distance to getting a home in a situation where the home is not creating stress, and instead is a blessing.

Okay.

I want you to get a house.

I don't want the house to get you, kiddo.

Yeah.

Well, particularly since we're not exactly on the higher range of income, so it's not exactly like we're affording a fancy, totally redone.

Make sure you don't have.

How many years in a row have you got tax refund?

So this is probably the fourth.

And how much has been your tax refund?

Let's see.

Last year was about $11,000.

Okay.

What that means is they're taking almost $1,000 a month, too much out of your checks, and then they give it back to you a year later with no interest.

Yeah, particularly since the W-2 has not been amended to account for the children we have had.

You need to amend the W-2 to account for $10,000.

$850 a month needs to come home more than it's coming home now.

Oh, that would be substantial.

That'll help your budget, see, and that'll pay for the timing belt and everything else.

You don't need to have a savings account with the IRS.

That's what a tax refund is.

Yes.

Monthly you make a deposit into the IRS and at the end of the year they give you a tax refund.

Santa Claus does not live in Washington.

That's your money.

Didn't come from him.

I know him well.

He lives in the North Pole, not in D.C.

Matter of fact, he's like most of us.

He doesn't even like D.C.

So, yeah, that's fun, kid.

You're going to do great.

Stick with the system.

Let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

You and your husband both go through that, and both of you hold hands and get dialed in and really focused, maybe for the first time in your lives, on the details of this stuff, and then work those baby steps exactly.

And that'll get you a home that's a blessing faster than anything else.

You know, Ken, I was on a guy's podcast a while back who was very successful.

And he surprised me

when he said,

you know,

I've known him for a decade.

And he goes, I've never done your stuff till about two years ago.

And he goes, I finally started doing it.

And I did it exactly in detail the way you teach.

And he goes, the progress we've made is in a short period of time is enormous.

And then he said something that kind of shocked me.

He said, my problem was I refused to submit myself

to a system.

That's right.

And I thought that's an interesting word choice because that's, you know, if you bring in a personal trainer and they have a six-pack and you got a keg, you have to submit yourself to their advice.

and their eating pattern that they're suggesting, their workout pattern that they're suggesting, because they have a six-pack, you got a keg.

So you need need to know that they know something you don't know.

And you don't need to tell them how to do this.

They know how to do it.

Yeah.

And that's interesting.

It is interesting.

And the guts of this is focused discipline.

That's the key.

I also want to give Nicole

your quick read, the momentum theorem, because I think that's fabulous.

You know what I mean?

To just really understand the power of that and then get into the baby steps.

It's a quick read.

Okay.

You know, because what you're teaching teaching here for her, she's been listening, but she really needs to understand what makes the baby steps so powerful is that it is exactly the illustration you used.

It's like a trainer who's going to come in and be very focused on nutrition plus exercise.

We're going to work on.

Am I going to do it?

That's the issue.

You got to submit to, as your friend says,

because none of us, I don't like that word.

No.

I don't want to submit to nothing.

Well, it takes our illusion of power away.

Yeah,

I don't want to submit myself to to what is that?

No, no, thank you.

I feel like I'm bowing down or something, you know?

Yeah.

It's a weird word.

But what it means is I'm admitting that my plan is not working and I need to try yours.

That's what I'm admitting when I do that.

And that was interesting.

And he said they made huge progress after that.

Yeah.

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Antonio is in Columbus, Ohio.

Hi, Antonio.

How are you?

Hey, doing well.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Awesome.

Thanks for taking my call.

I was curious.

I have a small power washing business that I'm hoping to be able to do full-time next summer.

And my wife and I are still in baby step two.

We were not sure if we should put money away for like a larger emergency fund to cover expenses for the business and as well as home

Since I'll be like fully self-employed over the summer next year.

What do you make at your regular job now?

At my regular job, we bring home around just over $8,000 a month.

You or you and her?

My wife and I.

What do you make?

You're the ones going to quit.

About $6,000.

So you're going to make $72,000 a year worth pressure washing.

Profit.

Well, sorry.

So I drive school buses during the school year.

And so in the summertime, we find our own work.

And that's kind of what I was hoping to do

in the meantime, basically over summer.

So I wouldn't be like full-time throughout the whole year.

It's just in the summertime, that's when we're busy as power washing.

Okay, what were you doing in the summer?

This summer, I actually picked up a concrete truck driving job with my CDL, and that's paid well.

What did you make?

Sorry, that's when I'm bringing, like, that's when I'm bringing $6,000 from

is a concrete truck.

Okay, so for three months, so $18,000 you've got to make in pressure washing to offset the concrete truck job.

Correct, yeah.

In the summertime only.

Am I right?

Am I hearing all that?

Yes, correct.

Okay.

And what do you make driving school bus?

That fluctuates because we kind of can do as much overtime as we want, but it's probably closer to about $5,000 a month.

Okay.

Nine months a year.

Correct.

Okay.

All right.

Good.

So Ken and I teach with small business ideas that you want to pull the boat close to the dock

before you jump in.

But this is not that big a deal because it's only for three months.

So you don't really have to have a big emergency fund.

You just need to get busy in the spring and line up a whole bunch of jobs.

Listen, so when is the last day you drive in May?

The last last day would be, I think it's

May 20th.

Okay, so the first of May, I want you to start calling on people and setting up jobs to begin on the 20th.

And I want you to fill up

the 10 days of May and all of June before May 20th.

I want you to fully do your marketing and book up the first month of work solid.

Okay.

All right.

And you already have the equipment, right?

Correct, yeah.

I have a paid for trailer, all the equipment, yeah.

All right.

And so I want you to book up.

And so here's what happens.

During the month that you are doing that work, you go and get the other two months booked up.

If at any time you don't get something booked up, you got to shut down and go do something else.

So if during the 20 days of May that you're driving a truck and booking up and at night knocking on people's doors and getting pressure washing jobs or whatever you're going to do to get the jobs.

If during that 20 days you can't get that month full,

you have to go drive concrete truck instead.

Okay.

So you have to prove this business idea or not do it.

That makes sense?

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

That would also be more peace as well, because then I'm not stressed.

You don't need any emergency fund to do what I'm talking about.

Correct.

Yeah.

All you need is business.

Yep.

And a plan B if business doesn't hit.

Two questions.

How many hours are you working on average?

Because you mentioned overtime.

How much are you working when driving the school bus nine months a year?

What's an average week, hours-wise?

My average, oh man, it was close to like 50, 55 hours when I was picking up all the overtime.

Okay.

The reason I asked.

That's five days a week, right?

Yeah.

And the reason I asked that is I would also add to Dave's advice, I'd be doing pressure washing on the weekends, Sunday afternoons, some Saturday mornings.

If you've got time, if you can handle that load, you may not be able to.

Second question is, what is the difference in rate per hour?

If I'm pressure washing for myself versus driving the concrete truck, what's the difference in hourly pay?

So the concrete truck is $28 an hour right now.

And like there's potential for raises, of course, next year.

But power washing, I try to, like whenever I go give a quote, I try to get somewhere around $100 an hour where I could take home like most of that.

Yeah.

Since I'm not putting any money into the business right now, it's all going to baby step two.

Yeah.

Okay, that's good.

I just wanted to know.

So that means you're making almost 4x

per hour.

So that means you could work one-fourth the hours and make exactly the same money.

If the pipeline is full.

But you've got to get those hours booked.

You've got to get slammed.

And if you can get yourself slammed 10 hours a day doing pressure washing for three months you're going to make a pile of money

yep so how have you been acquiring customers

um actually so um i the only most of the customers i've been watching for the summer after like i'll do it after i drive the trucks um so i'm working a lot more good i partnered with an hoa from some someone who i know at church is the secretary for the HOA, and she heard I had the small business and offered to partner.

And so we, that's all it's been is referrals within that neighborhood.

It's a very large neighborhood and I haven't had to do door knocking or anything.

Thankfully people are just reaching out.

So what are you paying her?

Oh,

I didn't pay her.

Oh, so when you say partner, you didn't partner.

She just was your source.

She helped you.

Yeah, correct.

Sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They like to have like local businesses that can come in.

Like they have a landscaper.

Yeah.

And then they asked me to come in.

Good, good.

Well, that's a great partner.

I like that kind of partner.

Yeah,

that was my first question.

What's her take on this deal?

Okay, so yeah, I think, so you've got a good source.

And if you start working that HOA leads and even people you worked for last year and swing back around and say, hey, I'm going to gear up May 20, when can I put you on the schedule?

They're going to line up, right?

Correct, yeah.

Yeah.

Because I got a guy that hits my lake house, which is known for mildew.

It's a lake house

with pressure washing every spring.

And he's got pretty much a set gig.

All we have to agree on is the day he's going to do it.

He's got a set customer.

As long as he shows up, does the work, charges me about the same.

You know, he's been doing it for years for me and great guy.

And so that's who you are.

You're that guy.

So you can create repeat business that swings back around annually.

And, you know, hey, you know, Antonio's going to be ready to go here, baby.

And we're going in.

I love this.

I didn't know the numbers on this.

Antonio, I got to give you this.

Take this or leave it.

In my neighborhood, we saw an ad recently in whatever the neighborhood newsletter is about a young guy who is going around pressure washing garbage cans, which can get pretty nasty.

I'd add that to the thing.

You may be surprised.

It might add a little 30 minutes to the deal.

You're already there.

People don't think about it.

But when we saw it, I was like, Stace,

we need this kid to come over because it's disgusting.

These garbage cans.

And she's like, Ken, get out there and clean it up.

No, she didn't.

She knows better.

I think she's given in after all these years.

My intentions will be good, but I'll get distracted on the way to the trash can and come up with three other projects is usually my problem.

But yeah, you're right.

He's just out there power washing these trash cans.

While you're there, add that as a, you know, for $25, we'll knock these out.

Because you'd be surprised how people will go.

Because no dude that I know wants to spray out his garbage can.

So

a little upcharge.

Yeah.

Well, I mean he's in an HOA.

He's in a neighborhood like yours.

So there you go.

Those rich people, they do all kinds of stuff.

Time is money, Dave.

Somebody told me that once.

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Today's question comes from David in West Virginia.

I've recently learned that a couple of my employees mooch personal money from soft-hearted coworkers and aren't paying back what they've borrowed in a reasonable amount of time, if ever.

While it may just be a couple of hundred dollars of personal money, I'm afraid of negative culture developing in the workplace.

Do I have a right to address the situation since it's between them personally and the business isn't really involved?

Do I have a right?

Yeah, I think you do in the sense of these are people that you're employing, and it's now becoming an issue that is going, it's not a gossip issue, this is a fact.

At least you're outlining it in a way where you know this is a fact, and it's rising up to you.

And this affects the actual team dynamic.

And

I think talking to

the people that are loaning the money is probably where I would start.

I think anytime you've got a situation like this where you've got people just with bad behavior where they're loaning, I mean, they're borrowing basic small amount of money and not paying it back.

That's just irresponsible.

And to me, that's a sign that they shouldn't be working for you.

So I would be addressing that issue,

not so much getting into all these details.

I would kind of end around it instead of sit down with these people like they're little kids.

I may be wrong on that.

You may have a different approach, but I would probably address the fact that there's a character problem here, and it's been made aware to me that's a character problem, and I don't want people working for me that have character problems.

Yeah.

You don't have a right, you have an obligation.

That's yeah.

You are in charge of what happens there under your leadership, and crap is happening under your leadership.

And if you don't do anything about it, you suck as a leader.

So you've got to do something about it.

Now, then the question becomes, how heavy-handed are you?

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with.

And what is it that you do?

So if it's a couple of hundred bucks, I'm probably starting with the two people loaning money.

I'm going to give them both a total money makeover book, pay for them to go to Financial Peace University, and here's your $200 back.

And don't ever loan anybody money again as long as you work here.

If you do, I'm going to fire you.

I like that approach.

And just make them whole and then shut down the source.

Then I'm going to the two or the couple of people, whoever it is that borrowed the money and didn't pay it back, and say,

this is over.

If you borrow money from someone here at the office or get money as a gift from someone here at the office again, as long as you work here, it will be your last day.

You're not doing this anymore.

For you to take money from someone that's hardworking and then not give it back to them as promised is a character problem.

It's almost stealing.

You're pretty close.

And so, no, you're not going to do that while you work here.

I want an environment where people feel safe, where people like each other, they trust each other.

That's the culture that we're going to have, and that can only occur if you are worthy of trust.

And so I have paid them the money back.

You don't owe them.

You are forgiven the debt.

But if you ever borrow a dime or take a dime in charity from someone else that works here while you work here, and I find out about it, it will be your last day.

And I'd give them a zero tolerance.

One strike, you're out from here on.

So they get a warning.

They're whole.

The other guy's whole.

Problem solved.

It's over.

And then I would make an, I don't know how big an organization this is, but I would just make an announcement that just says, hey,

guys, sometimes people want to borrow money and stuff.

I've made a decision that's not okay here.

And if somebody comes to you to ask you to borrow money from them, it's not okay here.

You don't need to loan people money that work here.

Everybody here works too hard.

Nobody here is rich.

Okay?

So don't get in that business and you guys quit trading dollars back and forth.

You don't trade spit back and forth.

You don't trade dollars back and forth.

You work here.

This is what we're doing.

Okay.

And, you know, just make a general announcement, make a joke about it, and move along.

And don't make a big thing like we've had this serious problem and I've addressed it.

I wouldn't do all that.

Just make a general blanket quick statement, 30 seconds.

Hey, just want to let everybody know I've got a policy on this and I'm not okay with this and don't do it anymore if you were doing it.

So we're done.

But you've already addressed the other people directly, individually, and privately before you get there.

But you have a responsibility.

It's not just a right.

A responsibility for the people that work there.

Okay, so let me me give you another example, Ken.

Everybody acts like somehow that you're not allowed to do stuff in business because it's business and you're supposed to just keep it all business.

Well, that's a bunch of horse crap.

Okay?

So I got 1,100 people here.

I was standing in the lunch line a while ago getting a taco with a young guy who just got married to another person in the building.

He met his new wife here.

So now I have two team members that are married that work here.

And he met her here.

They just bought a house, great little couple, sharp as attack, all that.

That's the good story.

The other story is when someone starts dating here and it goes bad.

And then they feel threatened or stalked or whatever.

Well, that's their personal life.

You shouldn't get involved in that.

Dad, come right, I'm getting involved in it.

It's a 26-year-old, 25-year-old young lady that feels threatened inside our building.

Right.

Absolutely, I'm getting involved in it.

That's not happening here under my watch.

I'm the leader of this organization.

Her dad expects me to make sure she's in a safe situation.

And I'm an old southern gentleman, and we take care of the ladies.

That's how we do it.

It's an old school chivalry thing.

And if you don't like that, get your butt out of here and don't let the door hit you as you go out.

I couldn't care less.

And so that's, you know, you don't have a right.

No, I've got an obligation to her because I got to look her dad in the face if he stops by, visits one of these days and say, your daughter's safe here no doofuses are gonna be around her that's right and so yeah it's not a it's not just a right it's an obligation to create a safe high quality culture well you're getting involved in their personal lives that's none of your business dad gum right it's my business it happened on my watch on my payroll inside my building that makes it my freaking business so some of you guys that own businesses need to grow a freaking backbone and stand up and do the stuff you're supposed to do to protect your team and take good care of your team and and actually be a freaking adult about it.

And instead of like, I'm a wuss and everybody says I don't have a right.

And it's not just a right, it's an obligation.

It's called leadership.

So, but I'm not going to, that's the heavy-handed part is running down your backbone, not at the employee.

That's correct.

So I'm going to soft pedal this with the employees.

But, you know, this thing of this is a liberal left-wing garbage.

I have the right to.

Yeah.

You know, let me just tell you about my rights.

It's got my name on the side of the building.

That's my right.

Right.

Okay.

That means everything that happens in here is my right.

That's correct.

And if you don't like it, hit the door.

I'm good with that.

Yeah.

You know, and that's how this thing works.

And again, I don't talk to people that way directly, but that's the inner Dave going, yeah.

I'm going to stand up, take care and love the people that are inside of here.

And this is a quality high class where you can meet your wife, get married, buy your first house, and I get to meet you downstairs when we're getting a taco.

And I'm happy and proud that that's the environment that that young man's in.

Yeah, and I love the example you give, Dave, because you do that, and I've seen you do that over 11 years.

And what's funny is the people that would attack that.

It's not funny, the irony is the people that would attack that are the ones that would scream, everyone needs rights and women's rights, and all that.

And actually,

when you defend someone who works for you from being stalked, or from that is absolutely

defending their right to come to work and be safe.

Yeah.

So the irony of the criticism of that of, oh, you've gotten involved in something personal.

No, again, they are a professional.

And to your point, you are responsible for a safe environment.

And I think that's a great juxtaposition on how you laid that out.

But the political correctness crap has invaded people that own businesses and they don't, they're even, they're afraid to even operate their own business.

That's correct.

Because I'm not sure I have the right.

By God, you not only got the right, you got the obligation, baby.

Kara is in Indiana.

Hi, Kara.

How are you?

Good, how are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Thanks for taking my call.

I'm a recent college grad, and I paid out-of-state tuition for my degree.

I kept my costs low and competed in three seasons of athletics, and I earned about $15,000 in my sports scholarships.

And then I also did honors college.

I negotiated for more aid.

and applied for additional scholarships, saving around $25,000 to $30,000.

My parents set up 529 plans for me and each of my siblings, and they've always said the amounts were equal.

They chose expensive private schools, and one has already overspent and is in grad school, and the other is on track to do the same.

I now live at home with my parents, and I'm working.

While building a budget, I started to contribute to, I plan to start contribute to my 529 to grow it for either my future education or if I decide not to go back my child.

I don't have any kids yet, but my future children.

That's when this issue came up.

There's still leftover money in my $529, possibly $30,000 or more, but my parents won't tell me the exact balance.

They're supportive if I go back to school, but they said no when I asked about saving it for my future children's education if I don't end up going back.

I even once offered to give some to my siblings possibly and they still said no.

And now they're considering using it for my dad's retirement.

So my question to you.

How old are you?

I'm 22.

Okay.

Oh, man.

I'm sorry.

So I guess just that.

Well, number one, you've got to start looking for other housing, don't you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Number two, your parents are in for a rude awakening.

The 529 is not under their control.

It's under yours.

Do you have the account number?

I don't.

No.

I don't have any information on it.

And from everything they've told me, I'm just the beneficiary to it.

No, that's not how it works.

Okay.

A 529 is in your name, and they are the custodians until you're 21.

So this is just your money, period.

Okay.

They have absolutely no legal control over this at all.

And so

I would sit down and

let's back into this.

Here's what I want you to do.

I want you to go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro.

And I want you to sit down with one of our Smart Vestor Pros in the investment world and let them assist you and see if you can find this account.

If you can find it, just simply move it

out of their control.

I mean, out of their hands where they can't find it.

Because it's simply not their money.

They funded it, but it's not their money.

That's the danger of a 529 or a Nutmeg account, either one.

When you're 21, it is your money.

Okay.

And so that's, they've, they committed that money to you.

They don't have options here.

So I think that's right, and I think that's what you'll find, and I think you can just move it.

But

if they're going to steal $30,000 from you after you've put in all this effort to go to school with spending almost nothing,

you should leave the home immediately.

Are you employed?

I am, yeah.

I just started working and I'm looking to just save up money by living here for a year or two.

But this is a toxic situation.

You can't compartmentalize this, kiddo.

Your mother and father are trying to steal money from you.

That's what you described to me.

Yeah, and it's difficult because if I do decide to go back, then I don't want it to be an issue, but I'm also worried that if I don't,

that yeah, no,

I want you to find out immediately by meeting with the Smart Vestor Pro if you can find this money.

And if I'm correct that the 529 is in your name, then you just move it.

If you can find it, you just move it.

Okay.

If I'm not correct, then you may just have walked away from $30,000, but I'm not sure you had it anyway.

So, your parents are

this is just it's just morally wrong.

That's the kindest way I can say it.

What they're proposing is morally wrong.

When they saved money for your college and there's a balance left in the account because of your effort and they want to take that and use it and they even propose, if it even came out of their mouth, that they would say, I'm going to take your money and use it for my retirement.

I don't care if he put it in there or not.

He put it in there for you.

And then you have been more responsible than the other side.

And in return, you get your money stolen.

That's morally toxic and wrong.

And that's me being very gentle

because it's heartbreaking when you're 22 and you live there and you love them to discover that they're not trustworthy.

Kara, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I don't think I could look at them.

Yeah.

Sarah, you've mentioned a couple times I might go back.

What is in your mind about that?

So I'm a nurse and I'm looking to possibly go back for grad school, maybe a nurse anesthetist or nurse practitioner.

Okay.

Both of those would be great.

That's a good use of money there.

30,000 won't get either one of those, though.

Yeah, but I figured it could help a little bit.

Yeah.

The reason I ask is I'm just trying to catch you on the front end of this.

Save that money up.

You're making good money as a nurse.

So hopefully you get control of those funds.

And if you make that decision, hopefully what what we want is to see you save that up, have a target.

Do not add anything to this 529 until you are in 100% control of it.

And even then, I'm probably not going to add anything.

I'm probably just going to save money to go to school with.

Okay.

Yeah, I don't think you need to add anything to this in any scenario, but you need to figure out if you can get control of it.

And then you have to, once you do, you need to have a different conversation with your parents.

And I'm out of there within 30 days if I'm you.

And it's the only possible way you can maintain some kind of relationship with these folks going forward because they are, you know, what they're doing is just really, really, really wrong.

It's really toxic.

And so.

Yeah.

Would you say there's a high rate of probability that if she were to pull off what you're advising her to do, that they're going to be pretty upset about it?

Oh, I'd say they're going to be so pissed they never speak to her again.

That's what I thought, too.

And I'm not sure that's a big loss.

It isn't, but I wanted her to hear that.

I wanted you to hear that, Kara, because there's really, this thing's going south one way or the other.

It's going to eat you alive or it's going to make them upset.

You've got to do what's right.

You may choose to walk away from this and just never look back.

That may be your choice.

But if you can get control of your money, I would.

And I think you can.

I don't know if we can find it or not, but we've got to get some clue as to where it is.

But

maybe a Smart Mr.

Pro can help you with that.

And they can advise you as to whether the advice I'm giving you is correct or not.

I might not be correct.

I'm sitting here spinning in my brain.

I was real sure when I first said it, it, and now I'm starting to wonder if I'm right, but I think I'm right.

So anyway.

All right.

Danielle's in South Carolina.

Hi, Danielle.

How are you?

Oh, how are you?

Hi, Dave.

It's so good to speak to you.

You too.

I'm real short on time.

Can you go straight to it, please?

Yes.

How to, this is a big question.

I could have something easy.

How to save money at the grocery store?

I mean,

I'm working on getting married next year.

I'm engaged.

Good.

So, just trying to figure out how to work through the finances.

Okay.

Getting on the same page with your potential fiancé?

Yes.

Well, he is my fiancé.

So how to get on the same page.

You're not working on getting married.

You're scheduled to get married.

That's right.

So, all right.

Yeah.

I think the way you work through with anyone is lots and lots and lots of communication about the subject.

The biggest thing with money is people don't talk about it

until they're mad.

And so let's talk about it before we're mad.

I want to talk to you about saving.

I want to talk to you about debt.

I want to talk to you about a budget.

I want to talk to you about combining our finances.

And I want us to be aligned on that before we get to the altar.

Because we're not going to get to the altar unless we get aligned on that, because it's the number one cause of divorce in North America today.

And I want us to be aligned on that.

And so let's talk about it.

And let's talk about it.

And let's talk about it.

I hate debt.

How do you feel?

I love saving.

How do you feel?

I love generosity.

How do you feel?

I want to be on a written plan that you and I are in agreement to.

I want us to combine everything and live our lives together like we actually love each other.

If we're going to share a bed, we're going to share a checking account.

And so what is the deal here?

And let's start talking that stuff through and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of communication on all that.

And I'll tell you what, I'll give you a framework to discuss it with.

It's called the Total Money Makeover.

I'll send you my copy of it for free as your engagement gift.

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The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Gary is in Michigan.

Hey, Gary, what's up?

Oh, not too much, Dave.

Ken, how are you guys today?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Well, I'm trying to get the gumption to cancel a whole life policy.

I've been listening to you guys for about 15 months, and I know I need to do it.

I just need to push.

The long story short, I can give you a little context.

My dad was very financially successful, died about three years ago.

And

I had an annuity, or he had an annuity,

which is how he left me some money.

And there was a whole life policy that this guy who had the annuity,

my dad had taken it out on me and there was some cash value there.

And he said, well, let's like, you know, set fire to the thing and essentially build a legacy,

if that makes sense, build on your dad's financial legacy.

Unfortunately, I did that before I found you guys, and so I'm just

trying to deal with the

emotions that come with that, if that makes sense.

What are the emotions?

Does that make sense to me, Dang?

It does, but

name these emotions.

Well,

I don't make a ton of money.

I work for a non-profit Christian ministry.

And so

there's, let's just say that my dad, like, he was, he was very successful at what he did, ran his own business for a long time.

And so he kind of pitched it in a way.

It made me think, oh, I can take care of my kids the way my dad took care of me.

I can take care of myself.

Yeah, but then you've discovered that that was not true.

What is the emotion?

I'm trying to help you.

Are you pissed at him?

Yeah.

Are you afraid you're not going to live up to your dad's expectations and legacy?

What is the emotion?

I think it's

I'm not even, I wouldn't say I'm mad at the insurance agent,

though.

I mean, yeah, it's fear mostly.

Fear of what?

Fear of failing, I think.

Okay,

let me stop.

You figured out that if you leave the money in this, you're going to fail.

Yeah.

Okay.

And And so

if you pull the money out of it, it is your only option to not fail.

It feels that way.

Yeah.

I don't want to.

I'm afraid of screwing it up a second time.

Like, I've already screwed up by getting this policy and was duped into it.

And now I fear that I'm not smart enough to do the right thing the second time.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

You lost confidence in yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So here's the answer.

Here's the antidote to that.

We're not going to trust

the agent and we're not going to trust Dave

and Ken and just do what anybody says anymore.

Instead, you need to learn and understand

and make an intellectual decision as to what the right thing is after gathering the facts.

And then based on that, see, before you went with the agent who used a power play off of your father's memory instead of facts to make a sale.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I've given you facts.

You've obviously looked at how bad a product whole life life insurance is, and you've decided I want to invest my money somewhere else.

You've got to become confident in those facts for yourself, not because I said, but because they're facts.

And when you're confident in those facts, then this becomes what's going known as a no-brainer.

Okay.

Yes.

I understand that.

But that's the emotion.

The emotion is: I'm not confident yet.

I don't know if I understand this.

I don't know if I'm missing something.

So here's another thing.

Continue to gather information.

Go sit down with the Smart Investor Pro.

Have them walk through with you how bad this product sucks and then what you could do with it if it was in a good mutual fund.

And then you will cash this crap out and tell this crook to go on his way.

Okay,

that's helpful to hear.

I mean, you know, if somebody's stolen money from you and you discover that, you wouldn't, you don't need, it's not, you're not fearful.

You're like, I'm going to get the money back.

That's not fear.

That's just, I made, yeah, you did make a mistake.

That's okay.

Everybody makes mistakes.

By the way, I bought a whole life policy when I was 22.

Okay.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And that's one of the ways I learned about this.

I got screwed by a college friend of my wife's who came calling right after college and this sweet little married couple and sold me the same bill of goods that they sell everybody.

And I was, I got a finance degree.

And I was so stupid I bought it.

So, you know, I'm no different than you, dude.

But then when I looked at the facts, I went, okay, now I understand.

I screwed up and I'm going to fix my mistake.

And I'm never going to do business with.

you know, that type of a thing again.

Instead, I'm going to put money in real investments and I have for the next 42 years.

And it's worked out good for me.

So

I learned from my mistakes, but I wasn't paralyzed by them.

And that's all I want you to do.

Yes.

Yeah, I appreciate that a great deal.

I've just, I realized it when I've heard this, and I've seen the math, and I've thought, what could I do with that if I just put it in the cash value in my Roth?

Oh, God, you just make so much more money.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's just so much.

It's like, it's a bazillion dollar difference.

Yes, because I've seen the returns on those and I'm like, wait a second.

I've been duped.

You have been duped.

You got duped for sure.

And then I'm not having a discussion with a Doofus life insurance agent

who know is a complete sentence.

Yes, it is.

You know, you are cashing this out.

I'm not talking to you about it.

We're closing the account.

And you could just call the home office, give them the account number, number, and send them a letter to close the thing out.

You don't even have to talk to Doofus.

But if Doofus calls you, you don't have to have a conversation with him.

You're not required.

It's not federal law to discuss stuff with people who stole money from you.

Yeah, and I think there's...

No, it's not.

I think you have a fear of confrontation if I had to bet.

Oh, I absolutely do.

And I'm reading Dr.

John's book, and this is part of choosing reality and choosing freedom.

Yeah, that's what I do.

This is going to be a great exercise.

This is.

It actually is.

And you said you started off the call saying I needed gumption.

I'm going to give you a tried and true formula, and Dave laid it out beautifully.

Clarity, which is Dave telling you to go sit with Smart Vestor Pro and look at the historical data, not someone's opinion, not a sales pitch from a whole life salesperson, but historical data of the stock market.

This is not debatable.

That's clarity.

Now, watch.

Clarity leads to confidence, which Dave mentioned.

And then confidence leads to courage.

That's the formula.

Clarity gives me confidence, and confidence gives me courage to step into confrontation, to step into a future that I want to make and not worry about what everybody else thinks.

Yeah, my need to make that whole life agent happy is precisely negative two.

Thousand?

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money.

That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money.

Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope.

Start your makeover today at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Michael is with us in Minneapolis.

Hey, Michael, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So to keep it brief and straightforward, I am 22.

I currently came into a career job of making $25 an hour.

And I come from a poverty lifestyle of bouncing around from homelessness, shelter, stuff like that.

I've got a recent opportunity to live out here with my older sister and took advantage of it.

They got me a career job.

But now I'm in the situation of I'm making more money than what I'm used to and what I know what to do with, which is roughly around $4,000 a month.

And to me, that's a lot of money coming from the lifestyle that I live.

But I also cannot learn to apparently budget my impulse control or my wants and needs.

And not to mention the around,

I'd probably say like $1,000 and something dollars in debt for just my medical bills alone and i'm here seeking advice on how to learn to budget and what i should do to maintain it because i'm so proud of you michael well done

i'm so proud of you well done man that's amazing you've made huge strides look at how far you've come

I mean, $4,000 a month is never a problem you had before.

Now it's a problem.

I love this.

Isn't that great?

Yeah, it is.

I really appreciate that.

I mean, that's great.

I'm proud of that.

That's amazing.

Good for you.

All right.

So all we got to do now is make this money behave.

And the problem with my money and the problem with Michael's money is the guy in the mirror.

You've already identified that.

You said it very clearly.

If I can get the guy in my mirror to behave, I can be skinny and rich.

But he eats too many donuts and spends all his money.

You follow me?

Yeah, that's correct.

That's it, man.

So, I mean, that's everybody.

And you're very wise and very self-aware to say, I've got to control.

The ownership of your words are fabulous.

I've got to control my impulses.

And I have to make this money behave instead of, I don't want to blow this opportunity.

This is the first time I've started winning, and I don't want to lose.

That is amazing self-awareness.

You are in a really good spot, sir.

So,

the way you do this is with a plan.

Okay.

And the plan is: I'm going to write down

before the month begins.

In this case, I'm going to put it into an app called Every Dollar that I'm going to sign you up for and I'm going to pay for it.

No cost to you.

Okay.

My gift, my gift.

I want to be part of your story because your story is awesome.

So, in the app, you're going to give every dollar a name

before the month begins.

You are going to tell your money what to do before you get your money.

And then you're going to follow that plan like your freaking life depends on it because it does.

This is how you don't screw up.

And you put some money in there for fun.

You got no overhead.

You're living with your sister.

It's not costing you anything.

What's your overhead?

You got $1,000 bill for medical.

That's it, right?

You got to buy some gas for your car.

You got a car?

I do.

I've recently bought a car for $3,000, but I also, as an agreement, what happens is I pay $1,300 a month in rent.

And what my brother-in-law does, he puts it in a separate bank account that I don't have any control over.

So when I move out, he gives me everything that I put into it back so I can go get my.

I love your brother-in-law and sister.

They're amazing.

They are giving you a shot, man.

Okay, so we got $4,000 minus $1,300.

So I got $2,700 I got to do something with, right?

I got to put gas in the car, right?

So there's an item in the budget.

I need to buy some food.

There's an item in the budget.

I need to pay off the $1,000 in debt.

There's an item in the budget.

I need to have some fun.

Hello.

Is that okay?

Yep.

So.

Where are you blowing your money now?

More than anything, I'm going to be completely honest.

It's more than likely the effect of my enjoyments.

So okay, what are you doing to enjoy it?

What are you doing?

What are you spending on?

I bought a PC payment and I bought a straight PC with $1,200, but instead of just paying it $1,200 pocket, I'm building my credit and put it on a on like towards a credit card for a monthly payment.

And that's a PC.

A personal computer?

Yep.

A gaming computer that I'm gaming.

You're gaming.

Correct.

Okay.

All right.

So when you were at the poverty, in the poverty situation homeless before, did you have any kind of an addiction problem?

I did not.

Good, good.

Okay.

So beware of gaming because it's a bottomless pit of time.

Well, the good news is about that with my work, with my career, I work seven days straight on rotating shifts.

So every week I work a different shift and I work seven days straight and get two days off.

So I don't have too much time to really game and get some digital.

No one gets rich building their credit.

So, the first thing we're gonna do is just pay that loan off.

Too, I don't care if you build your credit, I don't want your credit built.

I want you to pay cash and stack cash.

I appreciate that.

So, I want to see how big a pile of cash we can stack while we have some fun, and some fun includes other human beings, not just gaming.

Correct.

Okay,

so like go out on a date or go out with the guys and have a beer or whatever that have a coffee.

I don't care.

Whatever it is.

Okay.

Plug into a good local church.

There's some really good ones in the Minneapolis area.

Okay.

And start to build your spiritual life, your social life, and your financial life simultaneously and create a rhythm.

Be careful who you choose to run around with because you're going to become them.

Yes, sir.

So do you want to hang around disciplined people, people who are in control of their faculties, or people who are drinking all weekend?

Or are we going to hang around with drug heads?

Are we going to hang around with because you're going to become who you hang around with?

So choose that very carefully.

And

you have got just such a framework to go in.

So we're going to put you into Financial Peace University.

I'm going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book.

I'm going to put you in

every dollar premium so that you can do all these things.

But if you'll lay out that budget and then stick to it,

$1,300 to sister, brother-in-law, okay?

Gas is this much.

Food is this much.

Fun is this much.

I need to pay the PC off.

I need to pay the medical bill off.

I need to stack some cash and stack some cash and stack some cash.

I need some money to go out with my friends.

And you line item every one of the $4,000 where it's going to go before you get it in your hand.

And then when you get it in your hand, in a sense, emotionally, it's already spent because you already spent it in this app.

You've just got to execute.

That would help out a lot.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

So you're happening to your money instead of your money happening to you.

Okay.

The people that become wealthy are the people that are proactive.

They make the money behave rather than wondering where it went.

And I know people that make $100,000, $200,000 a year don't know where their money went.

They're just as broke as you.

The difference is they're not even as self-aware as you are.

Michael, is your sister or brother-in-law, are they disciplined and wise with money, in your opinion?

Yes.

So they currently were in a very similar situation and owned a very nice house.

Okay.

Well, the reason

I'm asking that is.

They broke the poverty cycle.

Yeah.

And so don't, everything that Dave's giving you from advice to every dollar is great, but don't do this alone.

And so absent of a wife, a spouse on this,

have your sister work with you on it.

Your brother-in-law, he's been very helpful to you.

In the first 90 days of working this budget, just get some accountability and somebody with a set of eyes on this and follow our baby steps, follow the plan, and you're going to be fine.

Second thing I would challenge you on, I'm not anti-gaming at all.

However, if you look at the data and you look at successful people, I'm going to challenge you to read at least half amount of time that you would normally spend gaming.

Start reading books of people that inspire you, people you want to learn about.

If you do that, I think you're going to see tremendous growth.

So, read, buy books, less games, split it in half and see what happens.

Ooh, good one.

Read biographies of successful people.

That's right.

And I just bought a new one on Mark Twain yesterday.

I'm reading it as well.

Cherno?

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm almost done with it.

Fabulous.

The guy I was with at dinner last night said I had to have it.

It's fabulous.

I already

ordered it last night.

Yeah.

Wow.

All right.

There you go.

See?

Read about famous people.

What's up, guys?

George Camill here.

If you've been thinking about making a real difference in your community, This is your moment.

People are drowning in money stress right now, and you can be the one who helps them by leading a Financial Peace University class.

It's totally free for you, and we hook you up with all the tools and support you need.

So if you're ready to help people ditch debt, save money, and actually sleep at night, go to fpu.com slash lead to learn more.

That's fpu.com/slash lead.

Did you know that two-thirds of Americans die without a will?

You're inviting the court, the lawyers, and the public into your most personal part of your life, and they're going to be in control of what happens to your kids.

Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men in the world, died April 1976 without a will.

After Hughes' death, over 600 people came forward claiming to have an interest in his fortune.

In the end, a judge decided the $2.5 billion would be split between 22 of Hughes' legal cousins in 1983.

Years later.

Don't let the government decide what happens to your estate.

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In less than five minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramseysolutions.com/slash will quiz

or click the link in the show notes.

And if you want to find out an online will fit your situation, you can get 25% off when you use the promo code will month.

That's one word.

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This is the month to do it.

And at checkout during the month of August.

Very cool.

Randy is in Portland, Oregon.

Hey, Randy, how are you?

I'm really good, Dave.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

You have no idea how much I wanted to hear that from you.

Look, I've been a fan of yours for many years, and I really appreciate what you guys do.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

My wife and I want to buy a toy and specifically a conversion van, and we want to get your opinion about how to go about it.

I can give you some details on my financial situation, or you can just start asking questions, whatever you prefer.

Okay, so how much is in your nest, egg?

We have a net worth of about $2.3 million.

1.6 of that's in retirement, 401ks and Ross, and the rest is in real estate, which is our house, and we own some land.

Okay, good.

Way to go, man.

How much of this did you inherit?

Oh, none.

How old are you?

I'm 56.

And my wife stopped aging at around 40.

You are a smart man.

Okay, and what's your household income?

So we have a combined income of about $175 a year.

How much non-retirement money do you have?

How much non-retirement money?

You mean my house and real estate?

No, I mean like cash sitting around or an investment that's not in a retirement account.

Cash sitting around.

We only probably have well, we have about 60K in savings, but that includes part of our emergency funds.

And how much

do you have like a brokerage account or anything like that or just a side some mutual funds that are not in

your retirement?

I do, but it's not that much.

It's probably $20,000.

Okay.

And how much is the conversion van?

Well, sets this kicker.

It's going to be about $110,000 to $120K.

But the caveat to that is you don't have to spend all of that at once.

You can buy the van, you know, like a stripped-out van and then have it converted.

But the two of those put together, you're looking at it right around a $120K.

Yeah.

Okay.

And what do we want it for or need it

We really want to get on the road and travel around in conversion van.

We've been looking at that lifestyle a lot, and we really want to do it.

And

we want to do it sooner rather than later.

What's your plan to do it now?

Well, that was a couple of questions I had for you.

I was thinking about, and I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

Would it be unwise to stop retirement savings for about a year,

a year and a half max, in order to build up cash for the purchase?

Would that do it?

You're not putting $110 in retirement in a year.

No, it would not do that, but I think between that and

some savings money we had, we could at least buy the van portion of it and then start saving up for the conversion part of it as well.

I'd love to do it all at once, but I really don't see it being financially

financially for real.

She's 60, so

does she have money in a 401k?

She does not, but she has it in a Roth.

How much is in her Roth?

She's got about 80K in her Roth.

Okay.

Because she can cash that out with no penalty and no taxes.

Yep.

That was one of my questions as well.

So

would that be smart?

I don't know if that would be smart to do it.

That's why I wanted to do it.

I'd rather not.

I'd rather not.

Because that's going to grow tax-free for the rest of her life, and you can't put it back.

If you had the van today,

are you working remotely?

Would you just start doing this now and continue to work?

no no i wouldn't no so what's the okay so what's the timeline then if you have to work

why would you buy it and why don't you just buy it all at once and when you're ready to go that's what i'm asking well we'd rather i we really want to start traveling now um we really don't want to wait and you know it's it's it's it's a toy for us and i just you know definitely okay so number one you can afford it okay you just don't have the cash yeah correct it's not it's not out of line for your net worth it's not a shocking purchase it's not ridiculous, anything like that.

You just don't have enough liquid non-retirement to get to it.

Okay.

So you're 56.

Are you going to use this after 59 and a half?

Absolutely.

Can you wait until then?

I could.

Yes, I could.

We could.

Yes.

Okay.

But, you know.

Okay, here,

I'll tell you what I would do.

Here's what I would do.

Okay.

You make $175,000 a year.

I'm going to spend some money on travel and enjoy the travel that I would have done with this van without the van by renting some ones or some RV rental program or whatever it is until I'm 59.5, and then I'm going to take enough out of your retirement and pay cash for it.

Okay.

That sounds good.

Yeah, I was trying to get options on what to do, and

I really never thought of that portion of it, the waiting part.

Here's an interesting thing, too.

Sometimes when people are getting ready to buy a vacation house, a beach house, a lake house or whatever, I ask them to rent one for a week or a month

and see if you're really going to use it.

Right.

And so if you go rent this RV, you may learn, it will inform the design of the one you finally purchase.

You'll find things about the RV that you hate or the entire experience that you hate and you thought you were going to love.

I see, yeah.

Okay.

I never really looked at it that way.

Yeah.

And I have known people to rent a beach house and say, I never want to go back and they didn't never buy.

You know, and I've known people to do that with ski houses in the mountains and lake houses as well.

So

because it's,

you know that per use, you can rent this cheaper throughout the rest of your life than own it.

Correct.

That would be correct.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so I'm okay with you just renting it for a while and then deciding the design based on your learnings.

That's where I was going with that line of question until you can go all in.

In other words, he has to work and he can't work remote, so he can't go all in.

In other words, enough to justify this purchase at this point.

So that's where I scratch the itch, right?

He's got to scratch the itch.

But I love the idea of renting, and let's go ahead and travel while we can, but he's limited in how he can travel anyway with a full-time job.

What's interesting is, I mean, you could, I mean, cheaper than we're talking about, you can charter a freaking jet cheaper than we're talking about.

That's true.

You know, and so depending on where you're going, but

you can do a lot of stuff here.

So I'm not suggesting that, but I am just saying it's interesting to me what you can get into and what you can purchase a jet for versus charter a jet, you know?

That's

what informs you, you know.

That's right.

And over a three-year period, he can save a lot more plus the Roth.

You know what I mean?

So it gives him a runway.

Leave her Roth alone.

That's right.

Yeah, let's leave that thing alone, let it grow.

And then if we're going to do it out of retirement, let's take it out of his because he's probably got some traditional.

You know what I'd love to see?

I'd love to see you and Sharon do a

van trip.

Conversion van.

Dave and Sharon driving over the continental U.S.

Why, you don't like me?

No, I just think just seeing you two in a conversion van for some reason just made me laugh.

I know.

Because you know I would be in hell.

I know both of you too well.

Sharon and I would be like, no.

No chance you make it through three states.

No chance.

No chance.

When I go through Arkansas and it starts going blum, bloom, blum, blum, bloom, blum, blah, bloom, I'll be done.

Oh, I'll be done.

Gosh, I don't know why that popped in my twisted head.

Your head is twisted.

It is.

It's going to get twisted right off your neck if you keep it up.

I hope I'm back.

I hope I make it to the next segment.

Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13.

If you're unfailing, in your unfailing love, you will lead the people you have redeemed.

In your strength, you will guide them to your holy dwelling.

Zig Ziegler said, Lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem.

We all have 24-hour days.

George is in New Jersey.

Hi, George.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, my family owns a business it's a hotel um

i've been working for them for five years now out of college i have a degree in entrepreneurship

and recently i had a talk with my mom who's a business owner about a raise um i make a little over sixty thousand right now um

in new jersey houses cost a lot especially in the county we're in and

She essentially told me she can't give me the raise to be where I can afford a house, house, which is understandable.

But

my next question to her was:

What is the time frame for me to inherit the business?

Because it was always spoken of,

and

I don't believe I'm at that point right now.

Maybe in five to six years, I can see myself doing that.

I'm 28 years old.

And essentially, she said

basically not until she passes away.

She's 66, so that could be 20 to 30 years, 25 years.

So, in other words, I don't know if I want to stay and put my heart into it or if I should leave and find another job where I can make more than what I'm making.

I think you should leave.

Okay.

This is not good for you.

You have the ability to make $100 a year.

You're being underpaid.

If you're underpaid by $40,000 a year for the next 20 years, the hotel's not free.

Definitely.

Your mom's not got a situation that

has enough to feed both families.

They're not making enough to feed both families, so they're going to have to run it another way.

She could pay somebody else $60,000 to do the job, probably.

Yes.

And also, this is, she has two preschools.

So those were her main source of income, which it paid for my family's finances and everything.

And then it was my dad's business, the hotel, and then she took over.

So this was kind of like their extra money, essentially.

Yeah.

Well, but she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to share it right now.

And it's hers.

That's her option.

But

she told you the game.

And

it's a fair response.

She's the owner.

She gets to decide that.

But it also doesn't work for you.

So I'm not mad at your mom, and I don't want you to be mad at her.

I don't think she did anything wrong.

But,

she's not incentivizing you to stay.

Why were you puzzled when Dave said what he said?

Because I was under the impression, the way you worded the question, that that was the way you were leaning, is that you should leave.

Is that true or false?

It's true in a sense.

But from a kid, like essentially, my mom gives me the responsibility of doing owner stuff.

Like if a pipe breaks, I'm there, which I'm currently managing the business.

So if if it breaks out like two in the morning I'm there we had bricks fall from the side of the building I'm there I'm in charge of getting quotes and she has me deal with the DEP when they come and stuff like that

and when I'm just a manager that's what a manager does yeah what so your response is curious to me so you know that there's no future and what Dave said is spot on and that's the way you were leaning and when I challenge you on it you just kind of went a little misdirection so what is the real emotion of cutting ties with this?

Because there's something there you need to identify, and I think you know what it is.

What is it?

Um, my grandfather came from Greece and built the business, and

I don't want to like give up the family legacy.

I kind of feel obligated to stay.

All right, let me ask a question: if you were to move on and go do your own thing, are you not still, or do you forfeit the inheritance?

No, I don't.

She said I can always come back to it later later on in life.

Then I'm with Dave 100%.

There's no risk.

You come back when she dies and I own it.

And you keep your grandfather's legacy alive.

I love your answer, but there's nothing in this conversation or in the terms that make this a risk.

So I'm with Dave 100%.

Go do your thing, man.

Go build something.

Go learn how to do something and fly, man.

Stretch and grow.

And then,

A, mom may change her mind.

We don't know.

And B, if it is 30 years from now, the legacy continues and you've gone out and prepared yourself to really grow this thing or do something special with it.

Yeah.

Okay.

One of the things I've told my kids and in writing in the trust and in the

estate documents is do not keep something around just because the old man started it.

I don't want my kids chained.

to a legacy of stuff.

I want them chained to a legacy of principles.

And the principles are we run a business that serves people and serves the family simultaneously.

But please don't keep something around because the old man, I don't want my kids saying what you just said about your grandpa.

I don't think your grandpa wanted you to say that.

I don't think he wants you to work for less than you could earn in order to keep open something that he started 50 years ago.

That was not his reason for starting it.

His reason for starting it was to create prosperity for the family,

but not to chain his grandkids to something

where they were being underpaid.

That was not his intent.

I'd be shocked if he said that.

Wouldn't you?

Very.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

I think your mom has said her piece, and you say, mom, I'm going to go ahead and give you some notice so you can start looking for a new manager because I'm going to start looking for something where I can afford a house.

And

you're my mom.

I love you.

I'll always be there.

I'll try to help you any way I can.

But I can't do this anymore.

It's not working for me.

And it doesn't work for you to have a different arrangement.

And I understand that.

And so I'm accepting your decision.

And

based on that, in about 30 days, I'll be gone.

Okay.

And then I want you to put your heart and soul into it while you're still there.

Be the best version of George, the best version you've ever been as a manager.

And in the meantime, go get something where you're making 100K, right?

Definitely.

Yeah.

And I think you can, don't you?

Definitely.

I mean, this gave me a lot of experience of managing a business and employees and inventory and finances and everything.

I'm not sure she can replace you for 60.

She can't.

She doesn't even know how to check somebody in.

But I mean, if she hired somebody to do all that, I'm not sure she could hire that position

that's on call for pipes busting, bricks falling, and checking people in 24-7

for $60,000 in New Jersey.

I'm not sure she can.

She might, but I'm not sure she can.

So maybe this is her wake-up call.

Is the business profitable, the hotel profitable?

Yes.

So what's she putting in her pocket?

You're seeing the books, right?

She really

doesn't put too much in her pocket from it.

So it's not that profitable.

Well, she's mostly taking the money and reinvesting it into the place and redoing hallways.

Yeah, so it's not that profitable.

By the time she does renovations that are required to keep the thing running, it's not really making a profit.

So it might not be a good business to own.

Right.

I mean, if she has to pay somebody $100,000 instead of $60,000, she's going to be losing money.

So I'm not sure she's got a great business there that I'm not sure you want this thing at the end of the day.

So maybe you want something else.

Maybe we sell it and we get something else or something.

Yeah, the clear thing I'm walking away with, George, is you don't want to be there based on the circumstances.

You don't need to be there based on this desire to maybe honor your grandfather's legacy.

So move on and we'll see how the chips fall.

Yeah, I think it's going to be fine.

But again, let's give her plenty of notice.

Pour yourself into it during the notice.

Give her plenty of time to redo this.

But she doesn't make enough on the hotel to pay you $100.

Probably not.

That's what she's saying.

I mean,

I think that's probably right.

He saw the book.

They're putting everything back into Carthage.

That's right.

Things run down.

It's getting tired.

It's got to have some reno.

And that makes sense.

That's logical.

Wow.

Harsh.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.