Take Debt Off The Table And Stay The Course

Speaker 1 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Speaker 2 This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us.

Speaker 2 The phone number for you to jump in today is triple 8-825-5225. Triple 8-825-5225.
Alongside the esteemed Dr. John Deloney, I am not a doctor, but I've played one on TV.
Ken Coleman. That's not true.

Speaker 2 I've never played a doctor on TV, but I'd like to say that.

Speaker 3 You're a resident doctor back there when we're trying to figure out how the world works.

Speaker 2 I think you have to do that.

Speaker 3 You have a doctorate in helping me navigate politics, which is a gift. I don't know how any of this stuff works, like pragmatically and mechanistically, and you help with that a lot.

Speaker 2 They should release our conversation. They should not because we'll be sit together unemployable.

Speaker 2 Yes, we do solve it all.

Speaker 3 Man, if they would just ask us.

Speaker 2 That's true. We would help.
But hey, we're here to help you win today. We start off in San Antonio, Texas, where KC is joining us.
Case, how can we help?

Speaker 4 Yes, sir. How are you today?

Speaker 2 Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you?

Speaker 5 My starting question is: I had about $50,000 stolen from me by the parents, and

Speaker 5 I'm now in in a lot of debt, and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the complex waters of starting over life. I used to work at a top-tier trillion-dollar company in Texas, and

Speaker 5 after everything that happened, I'd like to try to get back to

Speaker 5 a life that I enjoy.

Speaker 2 Okay, you just dropped a bomb on us, and I feel like we're missing a sizable amount of details. So, let's start with

Speaker 2 you're 50 or somewhere around 50, and your parents stole 50,000 from you, and somehow you have to start your life over. Bridge the gap for us.
First of all, how did they steal that money from you?

Speaker 9 Great question.

Speaker 10 We got to kind of rewind a long time ago.

Speaker 5 Back in the today, what they call a child influencer.

Speaker 11 Back in the day, they called child actors.

Speaker 5 I used to be a child actor. I had a trust fund.
That trust fund was stolen from 1982.

Speaker 5 I didn't find out about that uh theft until way later and basically in my 40s and when i found out about that theft which is currently in excess which has a judgment in excess of seven hundred thousand dollars uh because of the the money that was constantly um accruing interest because of the judgment um when i approached the parents about that theft

Speaker 5 I had a joint account with Fidelity Mutual

Speaker 5 that I was putting money into. And this is where the word theft is probably a gray area because it was a joint account with not just myself, but the parents were also on it.

Speaker 5 And when I approached them about the first incident, they said, you know what, why don't we empty this

Speaker 5 fund, this

Speaker 5 money that we have here. We'll keep that money and then we'll just use it to kind of

Speaker 5 help assuage me into seeing it their way rather than my way.

Speaker 3 That makes no sense. None.

Speaker 2 And where's the judgment stand? Where does that stand?

Speaker 5 So the current judgment is active. It currently gets

Speaker 5 9% interest every year from 1988.

Speaker 2 But what I'm saying is they don't have it. They can't pay you.

Speaker 5 No, no, no.

Speaker 5 It's definitely against them in the courts.

Speaker 3 I know, but then you're never going to see that money.

Speaker 2 They don't have it. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 12 No, they'll never.

Speaker 2 No, they'll never.

Speaker 3 Okay, so your parents have been crooks for your whole life.

Speaker 5 Correct, and lying to me about it the whole time.

Speaker 3 Right, right. So, like, it's that old, it's that old wives' tale.
Like, there's a rattlesnake in a paper sack, and you put your hand in there and got bit.

Speaker 3 And now, at age 50, you're surprised when you put your hand back in there, you got bit again.

Speaker 2 That's just who they are. They steal from their side.

Speaker 5 I would say more like I was living in a sack with rattlesnakes getting bit all the time. And when I left the sack,

Speaker 2 they pour to the rest of the parents. Okay, so, all right, so let's skip forward to today's call and and how we can help you.

Speaker 2 That was about 10 years ago that you discovered that you worked at one point for a trillion-dollar company. How much money were you making and what were you doing?

Speaker 5 I actually was doing really well there.

Speaker 5 It was a fantastic company, energy company.

Speaker 2 Why don't you work there anymore?

Speaker 5 I do not, unfortunately. They work.

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 5 Oh, why? It's a JIT manufacturing company.

Speaker 12 So, as

Speaker 5 they sell more, they produce more, they hire more.

Speaker 2 No, no, you're not answering the question. So let me do this.

Speaker 2 There's a reason why I'm asking these questions so that John and I can kind of get where you are. I'm going to ask you again, how much money were you making? Don't tell me how great the company was.

Speaker 2 Just answer the question. How much money were you making at your highest moment with this company?

Speaker 5 75K as production manager.

Speaker 2 And you were okay, great. Now, why aren't you working there? What is the reason that you left or you were told to leave? What happened?

Speaker 5 The company had a downturn in 2024.

Speaker 5 They were producing less vehicles

Speaker 2 than

Speaker 2 all right. So now, how can we ⁇ what is the key thing that you would like John and I to help you with today?

Speaker 5 Because of the debt and the theft, it gives you a sense of anger, disappointment, and frustration as you deal with normal people, which isn't fair to the normal people.

Speaker 5 So my question is maybe not just for me, but for all these child influencers out there that are going to have the same thing happen to them, hopefully not.

Speaker 5 What is it that you can do after these situations to

Speaker 5 kind of get back on your feet?

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 2 Dr. John, help me with

Speaker 2 mental and emotional anger. So, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 You have to, A, grieve the fact, and we don't have a psychology for that in our culture. No, I hear you.
I hear you.

Speaker 3 You have to grieve the fact that your parents should have been your chief advocate and that money, you should have a million dollars in an account right now. You don't.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 3 And every second, listen to me carefully.

Speaker 3 Every second you think about your mom and dad is a choice to be miserable in your present because you can't change one thing about how they ruined your life, period.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm going to press on you a little bit. They have nothing to do with you getting laid off.
None.

Speaker 2 No, sir.

Speaker 3 They have nothing to do with you not getting a job the following week, throwing boxes at Walmart just to bridge the gap.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 3 that grief, and I would say you're probably being pretty kind to them right now on the phone, the trauma you endured as a kid, because parents don't just steal from their kids in a vacuum.

Speaker 3 You probably lived in a hell too, right? So that stuff you're going to get with a therapist and work through because that's real.

Speaker 3 And you have a math problem.

Speaker 3 And so the key to,

Speaker 3 let me say it this way. When your body knows you're not in control, when you're not driving the car that is your life, it has all kinds of ways to try to keep you safe.

Speaker 3 Anxiousness, depression, dysthymia, over and over fatigue, chronic pain, all these other ways to try to keep you safe from what's actually like melting you from the inside out.

Speaker 3 So what does that mean for you? is A, you got to sit down with a professional and say, here's what happened to me, because that's wired into your nervous system.

Speaker 3 Number two, you have to choose i'm not going to carry around my a cinder block that is my mom and dad every day of my life because it's just ruining you the third thing is you have to go do and this is aa language the next right move which is

Speaker 3 List out your debt smallest to largest. You borrowed that money, not them.
You borrowed it. I got to go get one job, two jobs, three jobs, and begin chipping away at this thing.

Speaker 3 If you made $75,000 at a trillion dollar tech company, there's going to be another tech company in Texas that will hire you, I promise you.

Speaker 3 And maybe not making $75,000 to start with, but they'll pick you up, and you have to start walking through with your actions the next right move to get this crap tail.

Speaker 3 It's about you taking ownership of what comes next.

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It's confusing and stressful, and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there.

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Speaker 2 Erin is up in Washington, D.C. Erin, how can we help?

Speaker 18 Hi.

Speaker 18 How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 We're having a blast. What's going on with you?

Speaker 18 Well, I am a 63-year-old widow, and I just got engaged, and I am wondering, after marriage, should I combine my finances with my soon-to-be husband?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 And congratulations.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how about that?

Speaker 18 And the thing is, he was my high school crush.

Speaker 2 Bro,

Speaker 2 come on.

Speaker 3 I love it. I'm a huge Dawson's Creek fan, so I love this.

Speaker 2 This is awesome.

Speaker 2 Great reference.

Speaker 2 I think America wants to hear a short version of how this happened. Obviously, a horrific loss for you.
How did you reconnect with the high school crush?

Speaker 3 Guaranteed Facebook.

Speaker 19 Yes, it was.

Speaker 2 Cinema Freamer Quest. John Deloney won.

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nice. Okay, and how long have you guys been dating before getting engaged?

Speaker 18 We started in November and we got engaged a little over a month ago.

Speaker 3 Okay. Are you living in the same community?

Speaker 20 No, no.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 18 I'm on the East Coast. He's in the Midwest.

Speaker 2 What's going to happen?

Speaker 3 Have y'all seen? Yeah.

Speaker 18 Well, it's very expensive to retire in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 22 So I will sell my home.

Speaker 18 I'll buy a less expensive home in the Midwest where he lives and where my family's from.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 18 then I'll be completely debt-free. The only debt I have now is my mortgage because my late husband was a Dave Ramsey fan

Speaker 18 and set me up for success even after he left.

Speaker 2 When are you guys getting married?

Speaker 19 Next year.

Speaker 2 Okay, the way you said that, I could have heard it wrong, but the way you said it, it sounded like I'm going to buy a home. There was no we.

Speaker 2 Yes,

Speaker 18 I have quite a bit more money than he does, and he has $180,000 in medical debt.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 20 Now, the thing is,

Speaker 20 it was a botched surgery.

Speaker 18 We have proof the surgery was botched. I'm trying really hard to get him to sue the hospital for malpractice

Speaker 8 because

Speaker 18 my thought is, in all likelihood, they will just drop

Speaker 18 the debt and we can each go on our merry way.

Speaker 2 Well, let me ask you this. Did you combine finances with your first husband?

Speaker 18 Yes,

Speaker 13 we shared everything.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I'm going to guess here, the only thing that's giving you pause, which would call you, which would create this urgency to call us today and say, hey, should I, is this $180,000 in medical debt?

Speaker 18 Yes, because otherwise he's very responsible financially.

Speaker 18 Except for the medical debt and his mortgage, he lives debt-free. He does not use credit cards.
He pays cash for everything.

Speaker 2 Are you guys planning to live in this house that you buy?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.
John,

Speaker 2 I feel like this is in your lane here. This is not a money thing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Aaron, how much.

Speaker 3 It is kind of. Aaron,

Speaker 3 how honest can I be with you? Can I be direct since we're best friends now?

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. He says that to everybody.

Speaker 3 I do. I do.
I don't have any best friends, so I try to pick them up from show callers.

Speaker 3 Here's the deal.

Speaker 3 I want.

Speaker 3 I guess I wouldn't have a job if old flames who reconnected on social media told each other 100% of the truth.

Speaker 3 And so what I hear a lot of is, oh yeah, no, I know he is fill in the blank, or I know she is fill in the blank.

Speaker 3 And then people move across the country, they sell out, they cash out, they send money, they help with X, Y, and Z. And then there's this other shoe that drops.

Speaker 3 So I guess what I want to say for you and for everybody listening, and you may have already done this, is there's got to be some due diligence. What does that mean?

Speaker 3 Before you sell your house and buy a new one next to him, I would love for y'all to pull credit reports together and walk through it.

Speaker 2 Have you guys done that?

Speaker 20 I have not yet.

Speaker 18 But I do plan on sitting down and doing that. And as far as selling my house and moving there, this is my hometown.
My parents are still alive. All my family is there.
I have nobody here.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you're going there anyway. Let's just say

Speaker 2 that anywhere. Perfect.
Perfect.

Speaker 3 Okay, the second thing is, is you making peace with the following. If you marry him, that 180 grand is y'all's debt.

Speaker 3 And often the money becomes the proxy war for, I want to marry this guy, but I also want to marry a man with a little bit of initiative.

Speaker 3 And he won't even, he won't even call a lawyer for $5,000 and have him write a letter to clear $180,000.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 18 And I am going to work on him on that when I see him next month.

Speaker 3 You can't work on him. You can say,

Speaker 3 I would challenge you to use this language.

Speaker 3 In this next marriage, that's going to be my last one I'm ever a part of. Here's what I'm looking for in a partner.

Speaker 3 And it's a big deal to me that for me to feel safe is that I'm married to a guy with some initiative that

Speaker 3 when grave injustice is done to somebody, including him, that he's on the phone making it right.

Speaker 3 And then he gets to, if you come in and say, you need to, and you need to, and you need to, man, he's going to clam up like all of us would, right?

Speaker 3 Because he's going to feel the shame and the frustration and the, hey, can we just move past this? And hey, by the way, you've got a whole bunch of money. You can just pay it off.

Speaker 3 And it's you saying, here's what I want in this new marriage.

Speaker 2 Isn't it okay for her to ask for closure on this issue because

Speaker 2 it's her massive heartburn to realize that she might be inheriting $180,000? It doesn't make it about love or relationship, but just her fear of this issue.

Speaker 2 And that's what I was getting at, that it seems like they're on board with money.

Speaker 2 Theoretically,

Speaker 2 you guys are on board.

Speaker 2 But yeah, the idea of living separate finances and all that just because he's got this, by the way, you described it as, it's not his fault.

Speaker 2 I mean, any one of us could go in for a surgery and it gets botched and we're stuck. You know, it's like no one did anything irresponsible here.

Speaker 2 But that also sounds like also, I'm telling you, Aaron, I hope I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 It sounds like a story, too.

Speaker 3 Like, oh, yeah, we'll just get it taken care of. They screwed this up and we'll get it squared.

Speaker 3 Because if it was that easy, if they botched it, I've heard of a head of hospitals coming in and saying, hey, we're going to clear this debt and we're also going to pay you $50,000 as some sort of entry settlement to just end this thing.

Speaker 2 I had the same feeling, John.

Speaker 3 So there's some.

Speaker 2 Aaron, I don't want her to bank on that. It feels like, Aaron, the way you set that up, you're banking on, well, you know, we get a lawyer involved.
They're probably going going to wipe it away.

Speaker 2 And when you said it, I went,

Speaker 3 they probably would have if it was truly that cut and dry. Yeah.

Speaker 3 All that, all, all, all what you hear me say is, I want you to do your due diligence, and it's not unloving, it's not unromantic, it's not un Christian, whatever you want, whatever adjective you want to put there, it's none of those things for you to say, hey, we're both going to bring our credit reports to the table.

Speaker 3 I want to see where we both are. And if he says, oh, we don't need to do that, I told you, I'm dead free.
Say, yeah, I know. I want to see this, what I'm walking into.

Speaker 3 And then he gets to decide: do I want to be married to an amazing woman

Speaker 3 or am I going to let my ego run wild and I may not have been telling the full truth? Here's the second piece.

Speaker 3 When you say there's wealth in equity, that you've got way more money than he does, tell me how much way more do you have.

Speaker 3 Okay, he has

Speaker 18 about a half a million dollars in his retirement account, and he has

Speaker 18 a home that has maybe a quarter million in equity.

Speaker 18 I have about a half million dollars in equity in my home, and I have a million and a half dollars in retirement accounts and other investments and savings.

Speaker 18 And the other thing I mentioned is my parents are still alive, but I am going to inherit between $4 and $5 million when they pay.

Speaker 3 This is one of the rare moments when I'm going to strongly recommend you walk in with a prenup.

Speaker 3 And here's why.

Speaker 3 Let's say he's totally on the up and up. When there's four or five or six million dollar difference, then he's gonna have a cousin somewhere that thinks he just won the lottery.

Speaker 3 Or he's gonna have a parent or a kid.

Speaker 3 And I'm just telling you from years of doing this show, my fear is you're gonna walk out there, he's gonna sell his place, he's gonna move into your house, your parents are gonna pass away, and then if he disappears, he gets going to take half of it.

Speaker 3 So that would be my recommendation because there's such a gap there that y'all sit down and discuss, discuss: hey, when my parents die, here's how this is gonna go.

Speaker 3 Um, and it's not to say y'all gonna combine fighting.

Speaker 2 I gotta jump under real quick, ask you a question.

Speaker 2 Would you at least recommend premarital counseling

Speaker 2 before we think prenup?

Speaker 3 I think you do premarital counseling before you do everything, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I have an icky feeling about the prenup, do you?

Speaker 3 I do. Let's talk about it when we come back.

Speaker 2 I'd like to learn more about that. I'd love that.
Perfect. All right, we'll talk about it.

Speaker 1 I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 25 And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

Speaker 25 We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine.
Or even if it was opposite, right?

Speaker 25 If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

Speaker 25 How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Speaker 25 And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills

Speaker 2 next week.

Speaker 25 Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

Speaker 25 And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Speaker 25 Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there.
Like there's something about that safety of knowing.

Speaker 25 that you have money if something suddenly happens.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.
You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

Speaker 1 You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

Speaker 25 There really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

Speaker 1 So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1 That's 800-356-4282 or go to xander.com.

Speaker 2 All right, so we were talking to our last caller about

Speaker 2 moving into a second marriage. She has far more net worth.
He's got some millions more. Millions more, four to five million was the range.

Speaker 2 And John recommended a prenup. And

Speaker 2 I'm bringing this question back up because I had an initial icky thought. And some of you hardcore range fans go, well, Dave talks about that.
And it's not that I disagree with Dave. I just,

Speaker 2 in full admission,

Speaker 2 I'm a purist.

Speaker 2 And I don't like prenups. I don't like the concept.
I understand them.

Speaker 2 But it just felt gross to me. And in this particular situation, the amount of money felt like, huh.
And so I wanted to be able to follow up here, John, on this.

Speaker 2 Why is it that that's the position that you took on that one?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm with you. The idea, I don't have one.
I don't have a pre-nup.

Speaker 2 Neither do I.

Speaker 3 And so I'm a purist when it comes to speaking about, and then what I do at my house, right? I don't have one.

Speaker 3 We got married without a net, right? And so I think there is what I would call an

Speaker 3 over-prenup schization. I just made that word up completely.

Speaker 2 I like a lot of syllables.

Speaker 3 Where it's like this thing you got, I don't necessarily agree with that. When you come in with different,

Speaker 3 with this much of a, what I'll call a wealth inequality, somebody's going to be a multi-millionaire and then somebody's not.

Speaker 3 It's less about that particular couple.

Speaker 3 And I want to protect that couple and their goals and their life from a brother who's not well, a sister who's not well, cousins who come out of the woodwork, who accidentally turn an ankle on your property and sue you for a million dollars and burn your umbrella policy.

Speaker 3 It just becomes a way to say, hey, look, my parents are going to pass away. They're going to leave me $5 million.

Speaker 3 These are earmarked for their grandkids, for my kids.

Speaker 3 And I want that in writing so that a cousin doesn't think or a wacky neighbor or an old best friend doesn't feel like, ooh, we just won the lottery because you married somebody who's super wealthy.

Speaker 2 All right, I totally track. Now, let me turn this to the relationship guy.

Speaker 2 You advise a lot of marriages. You're writing on this issue right now.
Okay.

Speaker 2 How then

Speaker 2 does she reveal, hey, I want a preno? How do you, in other words, I have an icky feeling when I hear it. For sure.
And you would 12.

Speaker 2 So then how do you relationally bring that up to have the least amount of negative impact? I guess is the question.

Speaker 3 I think what I would do, let's make the assumption, and I don't know this about that caller, that she's got two kids. Right.

Speaker 3 Two grown kids who then have their own grandkids, right?

Speaker 3 I would sit down and say, hey, this money from my parents is earmarked and designated for their heirs. Got it.
Not for us to spend wildly. You have $750,000 in total net worth, as she said.

Speaker 3 I'm going to come in with about a million dollars. We're going to have a great life together.
And maybe when they pass, we're going to take this money for a particular goal for us.

Speaker 3 But I want you to know this money is designated in our lineage for our kids and our grandkids or whatever. And that to me is a way that

Speaker 2 if he can't hear it.

Speaker 3 I like that.

Speaker 2 Hey, wait a minute.

Speaker 3 I want $5 million.

Speaker 3 Now there's something revealing.

Speaker 2 That's fair. And what I like what you did there is you actually took the emotion out of it by saying this is just a function of this money is over here.
We are over here. We're here.
Okay.

Speaker 2 That's all right. I like that.
Very, very clear.

Speaker 3 And we're going to take some of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 We're going to have some fun. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 Hey, you know, we're constantly hearing in the headlines, John, all the time, right?

Speaker 2 Is Powell going to

Speaker 2 lower interest rates, which isn't always tied. In fact, it's rarely tied to what you see in the mortgage rates.
Those are tied to the 10-year treasury bonds.

Speaker 2 Okay, so some of you are kind of going, wait, what determines you? Again, stop using facts and data. I know, right?

Speaker 2 If you want to know where mortgage rates are going to go, pay attention to the news about the 10-year treasury note.

Speaker 2 And that's going to help you because it's very, very common that when the treasury notes drop, so do mortgage rates. And conversely, when they go up, mortgage rates go up.

Speaker 2 That's just a kind of an FYI, but we hear about the news all the time about

Speaker 2 real estate market. And here's the deal.

Speaker 2 For those of you that are thinking about buying or selling a home, we acknowledge and want to make sure you understand this may be the biggest financial transaction most of you make.

Speaker 2 You don't want to do it on your own. And so we want you to be tied into experts.
If you go to ramseysolutions.com slash market, ramseysolutions.com slash market,

Speaker 2 we've got a ton of free tools, up-to-date market trends to help you buy a home or sell with confidence.

Speaker 2 So make sure you use that valuable resource so that you do not walk into this major decision blindly and do it on your own. Ramseysolutions.com slash market.
Okay, Richard is up in Atlanta, Georgia.

Speaker 2 Richard, talk to us.

Speaker 15 Hey, how are you guys?

Speaker 2 We're having a blast.

Speaker 15 I have a very strange scenario, and I know that it's very weird. I'm an airline pilot, and I travel all over the place, and sometimes I can be in two or three countries in the same day

Speaker 15 on a regular basis. It is very unsafe to carry cash, and I also couldn't carry cash because I can't really carry six or seven different currencies.

Speaker 15 And it may be one week that I'm in Barbados and the next week I'm in London. Well, you can't carry so many currencies in your money.
Sure. And your debit card gets shut down on a regular basis.

Speaker 15 I've tried debit cards and they're listening to your show and that doesn't work either. So what's the best solution for paying for lunch in Barbados and

Speaker 15 dinner in Jamaica? later in the same day without a credit card.

Speaker 2 Let me ask a silly weird scenario. Yeah, you are.
A very, very complex. I'm going to ask a silly question because

Speaker 2 I don't know. When you are traveling for said airline,

Speaker 2 do you have a per diem or no? You're responsible for your own personal meals.

Speaker 15 So you get a per diem, but your per diem is basically just a blank run of money that you're given. So you have to go use your own credit card.

Speaker 15 And if you spend more than the per diem, well, that's on you. If you spend less, well, that's on you too.

Speaker 2 So they don't give it to you.

Speaker 2 You don't have a company card and you don't have a, it's, it's, you're responsible for the transaction and you get reimbursed.

Speaker 15 Correct. Yeah.
And they just put a line item on your paycheck that here's per diem that you were gone X number of hours a month and

Speaker 15 you know, here's your per diem at this rate.

Speaker 2 All right, I'm going to ask another seemingly silly question. My wife and I

Speaker 2 took a European extravaganza. We country hopped a couple of years ago.
That is my debit card in every country.

Speaker 2 I guess what I'm not understanding is if I couldn't do that, how come you can't do that?

Speaker 15 So it depends on the country, and your credit, your debit card can get shut down.

Speaker 12 So if you go into it.

Speaker 2 Shut down by who?

Speaker 15 The bank, because the bank calls it fraud alert. I tried to go.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, bro.

Speaker 2 Okay, no. Here's the deal.
My wife and I visited five countries on the trip I just told you about, and we called our bank ahead of time and told them, these are the countries we're going to.

Speaker 2 And my card was not shut down at all.

Speaker 3 And I did that same thing in Latin America. I didn't do five countries, but we did several.

Speaker 2 Never had a problem.

Speaker 15 That's the issue is, is I can tell you I'm going to go to London this week, and then an hour and a half, two hours before, instead of going to London, I'm now going to Jamaica, and the bank may be closed if it's late at night.

Speaker 2 I can't always close. I got to tell you, not true.

Speaker 2 I got to tell you,

Speaker 2 I hate to be the ambassador of no

Speaker 2 because that's what I feel like right now. But,

Speaker 2 okay, if I find out an hour from now that I'm going to Jamaica,

Speaker 2 I bank with a regional bank here in Tennessee, and they have what's called an 800 number.

Speaker 2 And there's always somebody on the other side. They closed on weekends.

Speaker 12 My banks closed on weekends.

Speaker 2 They have no

Speaker 8 small town.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, then there's your answer, maybe. Maybe we get with a bank that's got an answering service 24 hours a day, and then you can call them and go, hey,

Speaker 2 I'm going to Jamaica. Gonna be on the plane in an hour.
I need you to know that no fraud. Right.
Well, if you're with the Red Dirt Idaho Community Savings Bank,

Speaker 2 that's probably your limitation.

Speaker 3 And I'll tell you this.

Speaker 2 So what do you do?

Speaker 15 Jamaica and change over to Barbados kind of thing, though.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to get a good exchange rate skidding.

Speaker 15 Well, I may be in Jamaica. I may not be originating.
I may not have phone service where I'm at. I may be in Jamaica and not able to get into the touch of the bank.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you fly with a major airline and they're routinely putting you in places where you don't have sell service. I'm not buying it.

Speaker 2 They do.

Speaker 2 I feel like I'm up against a guy who really thinks he's going to get me to go. All right, pal.
Here's what we're going to do. No, no,

Speaker 26 I promise I'm not.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something else I do.

Speaker 3 I actually opened because I'm paranoid. I opened a sub-account in my checking account, and they issued me a new debit card just for that.

Speaker 3 So when I leave the country, I have a limited amount of cash in that because I don't want them having access to my whole thing. And in case that card gets taken, and I have, I'm with you, Ken.

Speaker 3 I've never had it denied.

Speaker 3 Man, if you're going to a tiny little country, put a hundred dollar bill in your pocket.

Speaker 2 I think we solve this entire call, Richard, by saying get a bigger bank and get a better sell service. I'm not sure cricket's working for you over there.

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Speaker 2 Quick program note earlier this week, Dave Ramsey and George Camill

Speaker 2 hosted a show and did a breakdown on the big beautiful bill and need to do a quick correction here.

Speaker 2 They had mentioned that you could use HSA money for gym memberships, but that was actually part of an earlier version of the legislation.

Speaker 2 It did not make it in the final bill, and so we always want to correct ourselves if we give errant information there.

Speaker 2 My goodness, how in the world would they keep up with these gigantic bills and what all is in them? You know, Congress themselves never reads these things. So good on our team for catching that.

Speaker 2 I mean, the very congressman who voted for it, no idea what's in it. None.

Speaker 2 None. None whatsoever.

Speaker 3 Unless it's one of their pet projects.

Speaker 3 That's right. Dude, you're going to get me all fired up.

Speaker 2 Oh, don't get it. Don't get fired up.
Peyton is waiting for us in my old stomping grounds in the 757.

Speaker 2 John, your name is John, not George. It hurts, but I'll accept it.
I know. Well, I just said his name.

Speaker 2 Virginia Beach is the area. Payton is there.
Payton, how can we help today?

Speaker 15 Yes.

Speaker 10 I want to say thank you, John and Ken, for all the work y'all do.

Speaker 2 I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

Speaker 15 But my question, real quick, is just...

Speaker 10 I have a car that got totaled out. It's a little hoochie.

Speaker 12 It's worth about $1,500, but I haven't gotten a settlement offer yet.

Speaker 10 But I'm curious about salvage titles as far as if I get the offer back and I get the vehicle back I'm somewhat mechanically inclined so I can fix up the issues that'll make it roadworthy but I'm curious is it reasonable it in a bad financial situation to keep it and is it financially wise to drive it as salvaged or would it be better off to sell it you know even to a junkyard worst case scenario

Speaker 2 and then try to buy another hoopie you know for roughly the same price because I already put about $800 into it to try to fix it up and make it you know as reliable as I could get it but and so you're you're struggling financially or you're trying to really get through baby step two so the idea of uh any more additional outlay is tough is that what I'm getting

Speaker 2 yes sir and how much more would you have to put into it to get it road worthy

Speaker 2 well I mean just replacing the light you know the lighthousing is really the main thing it was uh destroyed and the front bumper cover was pulled off some dents on the fenders and stuff that's not a big deal it's really just the lighthousing oh I know what's it going to cost is it going to cost you more money or is the insurance money going to cover that that?

Speaker 15 The insurance money should cover, yeah, all of the repairs that would need to be remade to it.

Speaker 2 Well, if I were in your shoes, if I heard everything right, John,

Speaker 2 if I had the, by the way, I can barely put gas in my own car. So this is never an option for me.

Speaker 2 You know, I mean, I'm not mechanically inclined, but if I could do what you're saying and I could get the car right back on the road and I was in the middle of baby step two, that's what I would do.

Speaker 2 I'd keep driving the thing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're worried about the salvage title. Nobody cares.

Speaker 2 That thing ain't worth anything.

Speaker 3 That's it. If you have a $15,000 car or a $30,000 car, it gets wrecked and it becomes, and you have to have a salvage title on it, you won't be able to resell it.

Speaker 3 This $1,500 car, you're going to sell it to somebody else for $1,000. And as long as they're holding a title of some sort, that's a good thing.
If you're lucky.

Speaker 2 I mean, this is going to end up being Fred Flintstone. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 That's the day that you, you know, and so keep going, man.

Speaker 2 Be encouraged.

Speaker 2 This is the season.

Speaker 2 Go ahead.

Speaker 10 Sorry, not to cut you off, but just with the salvage title and getting it insured, I just, as far as I understood it, though, if it gets in another wreck, then insurance won't cover anything on it.

Speaker 2 But, dude, is that

Speaker 3 $1,000?

Speaker 2 This car is not worth insuring. You need insurance.
You need umbrella insurance for what any damage you do. But as far as insuring this car, I wouldn't insure it for a penny.

Speaker 2 This thing is just, we want this baby to stay alive long enough for you to get through baby step two and

Speaker 2 keep moving forward. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Understood.

Speaker 10 I guess the only reason I have is just because of the fact that if it gets in, something else happens to it, let's say, in worst case scenario, because I didn't get in the accident.

Speaker 24 Somebody hit it while it was parked.

Speaker 10 And I don't have another $1,000 to buy another hoopie right now.

Speaker 2 So that's the only reason I have to do it.

Speaker 3 But I mean, when you're in Baby Step 2 and you burn your emergency fund, the first thing you do is go refill that emergency fund. That's right.

Speaker 3 So you pause, you go back to paying minimums on everything to get that emergency fund back up.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And, bro, it's the worst.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 10 that was the only question I had, too, is like, finding a $1,000 vehicle is really tough. Like, I was lucky to get that $1,500 one.

Speaker 10 So, while having it under a salvaged pile like that, should I increase my emergency fund a little bit to put an extra buffer in there to buy another?

Speaker 2 No, you're in baby step two. Yeah,

Speaker 3 you're going to be okay. Put your energy on to paying this other nonsense off.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 8 Yep. Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay. And I know, hey, dude, the exposure you feel, that nervousness, that's the fuel in your jetpack that's going to get you through baby step two.

Speaker 2 Yep. And by the way, it should be uncomfortable, is what I'm saying.
You're a mechanical guy, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 If something were to happen to this current rust bucket that you're driving,

Speaker 2 somebody's giving away a car, somebody's given up on a car somewhere to where you could go out and work a little overtime.

Speaker 2 I mean, you have the option to keep finding hoopties that until you get through baby step two. You actually can do this far more.
Like, if I was in your shoes, I'd really be in trouble.

Speaker 2 I'd be riding a bicycle you know

Speaker 2 but but the but John's right we don't change the rules because you're driving a hoopty or more importantly we don't change the rules because it's uncomfortable because by definition the rules designed to keep you uncomfortable to get you through this as fast as possible yeah great statement Roberto is up next in St.

Speaker 2 Louis Roberto how can we help

Speaker 27 so thanks for taking my call sure uh so I get a quick question

Speaker 9 I have I've been running a small business for the past 20 plus years, and I've done pretty well.

Speaker 9 And so, what's going on is I've landed a couple of contracts with some school districts in my area, and I'm receiving a check here in the next month or so for about $45,000 or so.

Speaker 9 And so, I contacted my

Speaker 9 tax lady

Speaker 9 and I asked her what I should do with my taxes, whether I should go ahead and pay them quarterly or if I should set them aside to pay at the end of the year.

Speaker 9 So, with doing that, knowing that my taxes are going to be roughly $13,000 to $15,000,

Speaker 9 my question to her was: can I take that money and have my business buy a pretty much a company vehicle? Or should I just go ahead and set that money aside, pay for the taxes, and just let it ride?

Speaker 3 I'd write a quarterly check, dude. Me too.

Speaker 2 What did she say?

Speaker 9 She said that she would have to look into it. What would be the best in my best interest?

Speaker 2 All right. Well, that's surprising because most tax people go for for the, yeah, just go spend it.
And it doesn't sound to me in anything you laid out to John and I right there that you need a truck.

Speaker 9 It's one of those things that sometimes I do,

Speaker 9 just, you know, haul equipment, haul ladders.

Speaker 2 But you're not going to skirt around the end of your tax bill. That's exactly right.
It's a false choice when people say, well, I'm going to go create another

Speaker 2 expense in order to lessen my taxes. If I was running a small business like you and I got this 45, I'd do exactly what John said.

Speaker 2 I'd go ahead and pay the quarterly estimate and that way I'm staying on top of things and I'm not messing around with the IRS. So, no, I would not go buy something.
I don't want to mess with the IRS.

Speaker 3 I don't either.

Speaker 3 If you were getting a check for 4.5 million and you had

Speaker 3 a good partnership with your financial advisor and your tax person and y'all figured out how you can take that quarterly and you can postpone it and invest it here and take that's but you're dealing in way more zeros there.

Speaker 3 That's Dave Ramsey kind of money. I don't have that.
It doesn't sound like you have that. Like, I'm going to pay that quarterly.
And here's what I'm going to...

Speaker 3 Any, I made 2% on the gap between, dude, I'm going to have a sleep tax. I'm going to know there's not a chance the government's going to come for me at the end of the year.

Speaker 3 In fact, they may write me a small check. That's what I'm going to do.
But I want you to follow your tax professional's advice.

Speaker 3 But anytime someone says, hey, you're going to have a $14,000 tax bill, so pay for a depreciating asset that's going to be $50,000. And that will help you.

Speaker 3 Man, that's just yeah, in that case,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't do that. And a lot of tax pros will do that.
Ramsey tax pros are not going to, they're not going to tell you that. And so in this case,

Speaker 2 be smart. You get windfalls like this as a small business owner, sock it away, you know, for the taxes.
At the end of the day, to me, I wouldn't be.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't be bothered if you took option two that you threw out to us, which is I'm going to put it aside to the end of the year and see if there are

Speaker 3 over my skis on text tax development.

Speaker 2 You can do that, but because you've put it aside. And so your tax pro is kind of going, all right, set all of it aside, the whole, you know, the whole 15 that we're anticipating.

Speaker 2 And then as we do your books, if you did have more expenses, what I estimated was going to be $13,15. Well, you know what? You're actually only going to owe nine.

Speaker 2 But the point is, it's all sitting there.

Speaker 2 And so either one of those options is best, but going out and buying something to try to play games with taxes, John laid that out beautifully.

Speaker 2 And that's just, it's not, the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that.

Speaker 30 So I do not like messing with the IRS for one.

Speaker 30 And on a second note, I was looking at something just to kind of offset the, you know, not $40,000, $50,000

Speaker 30 truck.

Speaker 2 You know, that's ridiculous, but something $15,000, $18,000.

Speaker 3 Well, you got the cash to do that on your own.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 Use the $30,000 that you are going to take home in profit and take a piece of that and go buy that truck.

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Speaker 2 This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their profession, and their relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us.
Alongside Dr.

Speaker 2 John Deloney, I am Ken Coleman, and we're here together for you. The phone number to jump in, 888-825-5225.
That's 888-825-5225. Jennifer is up in Miami.
Jennifer, how can we help?

Speaker 20 Hey, Ken and John. I am a huge fan of the show, and I am just so excited to be on with you guys.
Thank you for taking my call. You bet.

Speaker 20 All right, so I have been struggling with debt. I have about $63,000 in just different forms of debt.

Speaker 20 And I just feel like no matter how much I sell, how much I think I'm getting ahead, I'm just not like the interest is accuing and I don't know where to go from here.

Speaker 20 I have a few ideas, but I really wanted to like get your input before I did anything.

Speaker 2 Okay, what do you think is the reason? Why you're unable to get beyond minimum payments?

Speaker 2 Well, I am going beyond minimum payments but like i'm doing the baby steps so while i'm attacking one the other one is just accuing more and more and so i'm unable to get ahead is what i well know what so that's what threw me off you got to change your language um you're too busy looking at the debts that you're making minimum payments on instead of looking at the amount of progress you're making in the snowball So are you walking through the debt snowball where you're taking your low?

Speaker 2 Okay, are you making progress on that?

Speaker 20 Like, this is what's happening. I pay off one, and then I go back to my spreadsheet where I have them all listed.
I update it, right?

Speaker 22 Because

Speaker 20 the interest accumulated, and it's higher, even though I just pay off one. It's higher because the interest is going up.

Speaker 2 The total, the total debt you owe is higher, or that one? Total.

Speaker 3 How is that possible?

Speaker 20 It is possible because it's happening.

Speaker 3 Tell me how that works.

Speaker 3 You would have to have loans at 70%

Speaker 2 interest.

Speaker 2 yeah some of them are like up to 30 i mean okay but listen um i can break it down for yourself i believe no no because because i believe you but but you're again you're focused on the wrong problem okay

Speaker 20 all right

Speaker 2 you need to be focused problem is it's not it's not getting better no it is it is so let's walk through on your debt snowball what have you paid off to this point

Speaker 2 Anything? Have you knocked any of the debts? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 20 I can't remember which one I paid off. um i did pay off one i can't remember it was like maybe four thousand was it your lowest debt

Speaker 8 uh

Speaker 2 i believe so okay here's what's throwing john i'm not sure why i chose that one

Speaker 2 okay see all of your language tells me you're not doing this the way we teach it so let me go back just for a moment and we're for you we're not criticizing you okay but all your language is like i've got a spreadsheet but then when i asked you what was the lowest debt because that's how we teach it.

Speaker 2 We teach smallest to largest. So let's make it up.
And let's say you have $2,500.

Speaker 14 I've raised it. That's why.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.
All right. Once it's paid.
All right. So here's my point.
You have knocked off one.

Speaker 8 Oh, I remember.

Speaker 20 It was an Amazon.

Speaker 2 It was an Amazon. And how much was it? $4,000.
$4,000. Okay.
It was like $4,000. What's next? What's the next smallest debt on that?

Speaker 20 So then I paid, now I'm up to another one that was around $4,000 or $5,000, and it's down to like $1,400.

Speaker 2 You're making progress.

Speaker 2 You're making progress. You keep going.
And then eventually you're going to get into these bigger ones that have the huge interest rates, and that's where you will make progress.

Speaker 2 But you're not going to make progress on a debt that is higher up the snowball plan that has a crazy interest rate. You paid, that's what you did, and that's the stupid tax.

Speaker 2 John, weigh in on this because you're hearing the same thing I'm hearing.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 mathematically, Jennifer, I guess I want to challenge it, but I'm not looking at your spreadsheet.

Speaker 2 That's right,

Speaker 3 something.

Speaker 2 Would you say whatever, of course?

Speaker 20 Okay, so in my business, right, it's seasonal a little bit. Like the summer's really slow.
So last season, when it was really slow, I kind of survived. Like credit cards were my crutch.

Speaker 20 So a lot of this came from last season. And I'm a little bit concerned, like a lot concerned, that this summer I don't have that crutch.
In fact, I don't want to use my cards.

Speaker 20 But I'm just worried I'm not going to be able to like pay more I'm not going to be able to like get it down like I have been doing because I believe summer is going to be really slow so I'm just like kind of freaking out and I'm like all right should I get a loan to help me because I didn't know I need that

Speaker 20 I need some dental work and so no like

Speaker 2 here's the thing I

Speaker 3 you need a job yeah you've got to get another job you have a math problem you don't have a debt rearrangement problem yeah

Speaker 2 And so I

Speaker 20 my job makes I can, you know, my average is like $6,800

Speaker 20 a month. And like my debt, I got it down to, I think it was like $63.

Speaker 8 So.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but Jennifer, and by the way, we are, we are on team, Jennifer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But listen, what you just laid out for us isn't sustainable. If you have a business.

Speaker 20 Well, I'm worried it's going to get worse over the summer.

Speaker 2 It probably is. And what I said to you, you're not hearing me because I think you're calling, going, guys,

Speaker 2 I got to use debt to keep myself alive. And we're going, no, you don't.
So we're kind of at an impasse.

Speaker 2 And what we're trying to tell you is: if you're in a business that is so seasonal as in the summer and it dips so low that you have chosen to survive off of credit cards, the only way to dig out of this is to actually then offset your down season by you're going to have to get a job.

Speaker 2 You're going to have to make more money. John's right when he says this is a math problem.

Speaker 2 You can't, you'll never get out of this if you go, well, gee Willikers, my business sucks in the summer and I got to bail myself out with a loan or a credit card and then I'm back to paying off that debt.

Speaker 2 You are constantly adding to the hill that you're trying to climb. And the answer is, number one, cut up the credit cards.
Number two, come up with a different business.

Speaker 2 Or number three, supplement your business by doing another job or something to bring in the same amount of income so that you don't go backwards in the summer. And I'll throw a

Speaker 3 three plus and a four, okay? Listen,

Speaker 3 I have a buddy who runs sound. He does the monitors for a famous rock band.
The moment they get off tour, technically he's unemployed.

Speaker 3 Now they're going to go back on tour the next summer, the next year, and immediately he lives in Las Vegas, he goes to Vegas and starts running sound at shows and casinos.

Speaker 3 And so that's part, that's part of that cycle. That's number one.
So if you're like Ken said, if your business goes dips that low, then you have a math problem.

Speaker 3 The other side of this is to look at your debt repayment across a 12-month.

Speaker 3 Consider yourself a farmer. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 3 If you get a big, if you have a huge month in October and you take all of that and dump it into your debt so far that you can't pay your bills in June and July, that's not a debt problem.

Speaker 3 It's a, you're not looking at your 12-month calendar with in reality.

Speaker 3 So it might be that you got to put some money away because you know that it's going to be slower in June and July. Ramsey has seasons when we all, Ken and I are 100% commissioned.

Speaker 3 There are certain months a year where we get bigger checks. We know that.
Around Christmas,

Speaker 3 around

Speaker 3 when summer starts, right? We know that.

Speaker 3 And so we're going to spread that out over the course of a year when it comes to buying things and whatnot.

Speaker 3 But this idea that you just taking two months to pay off a $4,000 debt and your $63,000 earns that much $4,000 interest, it's not mathematically possible.

Speaker 3 So I think it's spreading it out or just really crushing a job in the summer. You've got to take debt off the table.

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Speaker 2 Houston, Texas is where we're going next, and Sarah is waiting. Sarah, how can we help?

Speaker 31 Hello. I am hoping somebody can tell me how I can financially

Speaker 20 exit my marriage.

Speaker 2 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What does that mean financially exit?

Speaker 31 I have been married married since 2001. I am 50 years old and a stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 31 My husband is in his mid-60s and is retired. He takes care of all the finances.

Speaker 3 Is that a nice way of saying he controls the money?

Speaker 31 That probably is a very nice way of saying it.

Speaker 31 I signed a prenuptial agreement

Speaker 31 and I had no idea

Speaker 15 what that was

Speaker 31 and I don't have access to it. I don't have access to anything.

Speaker 3 That's not accurate. He might be controlling it, but you do have legal rights to see the prenup that you signed because it's your prenup too.

Speaker 8 It is.

Speaker 31 I don't have access to it. He carries a key to the filing cabinet,

Speaker 31 and it's on him 100% of the time.

Speaker 3 Okay,

Speaker 3 you're in a very abusive situation and you know this, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.
And that's why I'm asking, what did you mean by financially exit as opposed to just exit?

Speaker 31 I know I'd like to just exit the whole thing, but

Speaker 31 y'all are a financial show.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You've got to sit with an attorney.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You've got to sit down with the attorney.

Speaker 2 I've never done that. Okay.

Speaker 31 We need all of that information.

Speaker 3 Say what now?

Speaker 2 The attorney needs the information.

Speaker 31 The financial information that we have

Speaker 31 the mortgage information and they need the prenuptial agreement.

Speaker 3 I know, but if you're married to an abusive person who won't share that and controls it and keeps it on their body, this is like a James Bond episode. Like,

Speaker 3 if you're married to somebody like that, the attorney knows if this person is unsafe and won't turn that over, that then they make a filing and there's a disclosure.

Speaker 3 They have to put all this stuff on the table. And if they won't, which he probably will not voluntarily, even with a subpoena, then you get a

Speaker 3 forensic tax person who goes through everyone's underwear drawer and goes through every receipt and you'll pay them a jillion dollars. But that's how this is done.

Speaker 3 If somebody wants to be controlling and abusive like that,

Speaker 3 you're in control. And by the way, a prenup will talk about pre-existing assets.
It won't mean that you don't get a big chunk of what he has earned while y'all are married.

Speaker 31 Oh, I know, I do know this.

Speaker 13 I know that part.

Speaker 22 I know that I would get half of the house.

Speaker 3 So tell me what you're, tell me, are you trying to get this information without him knowing you're talking to an attorney? Is that the problem? Yes. Okay.
That may not be possible.

Speaker 3 No, I don't think it is.

Speaker 2 I think you have to do what John just said. The only way he's going to do this is under court order.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 It sounds like that's your only path unless you're sneaking around, you know, in the middle of the night. You know, he has too much allergy medicine and you're pulling the key around his neck.

Speaker 2 This sounds like a bad lifetime movement. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Rarely is somebody that controlling that's not abusive either physically and or emotionally. Is that true also?

Speaker 8 Probably emotionally, not physically, definitely not physically.

Speaker 2 Okay, that's okay.

Speaker 31 Not physically.

Speaker 3 Then I think you have to sit with your attorney and say,

Speaker 3 I'm I'm not able to get this information because I'm in an abusive marriage.

Speaker 3 And then we've got to go to step two. And that means you have to have a place to live, and you're going to have to have food and water.

Speaker 2 I mean, you're going to have to have, there's four walls you've got to deal with, right? Do you have a hunch on this, Sarah?

Speaker 2 I think you do, but I'm curious to know if you did what John is suggesting, do you think that would wake your husband up, or do you think he would dig in deeper? Go to war.

Speaker 12 He would go to war. Okay.

Speaker 2 Oh, bless your heart.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 2 This sucks, Sarah, but

Speaker 2 I'm with John on this.

Speaker 2 This marriage is in deep, deep, deep trouble, and you got to do what's best for you right now. And I think John's right.

Speaker 3 I mean, you've already gone to speak to an attorney.

Speaker 3 What fear do you have about going the next step and filing papers?

Speaker 3 My kids will hate me. Yeah.
They won't because they live in in this mess, too.

Speaker 2 How old are they?

Speaker 2 I have

Speaker 22 three that are in high school. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you think they're aware of your relationship being in the state that we're all aware of?

Speaker 2 Some of them, two of them do. Two of them do.
Sarah, let me tell you that

Speaker 3 everyone in that house feels the tension in that house. Yeah.

Speaker 31 There is a lot of tension. Yes.
There is no laughter between my husband and I.

Speaker 22 There is

Speaker 31 no relationship. He is not my friend.

Speaker 2 And I am not his.

Speaker 3 I'm going to say something very hard, okay? And I want you to hear it in the spirit of which I'm saying it, okay?

Speaker 3 This is going to sound mean, but I want you to hear me say, I love you, okay?

Speaker 3 I don't want you to use... an imagined response from your children as the excuse to not go do what's the next right scary hard thing for you

Speaker 3 And there's a reason we don't let teenagers vote and buy beer because they're teenagers, because they're full of feelings and they don't always have, um, they don't always lead with uh critical thinking, rational thought.

Speaker 3 And that's not their fault.

Speaker 2 It's just brain development, right?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 And also, let's acknowledge, Sarah, this is not what you expected.

Speaker 2 It's a nightmare. And this is really hard.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is hard. But my prayer is, and I mean this, because I never

Speaker 2 love to hear the advice that we're giving at this case. I mean, I just hate this.
But my hope is that it wakes him up. I think you're probably right.
He'll dig in, but maybe not. I don't know.

Speaker 2 But I think you've got to make some moves going forward because I think you're in a prison. You're in a financial and emotional prison.

Speaker 3 Yes. And that means your kids are too.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And usually, not always, but usually

Speaker 3 he showers them with stuff so they will quote unquote love him. And then he gets to do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

Speaker 3 It's it's

Speaker 4 it's actually not

Speaker 8 that.

Speaker 31 He is very goal-driven and

Speaker 31 his goal currently is to be able to finance the children's college education.

Speaker 2 What kind of money does he make? You have any idea?

Speaker 31 He is retired, and we are living off of his investments. Oh, okay.
I'm a stay-at-home mom. This is too much

Speaker 19 for me to stay.

Speaker 31 I need people to go back to school, go back to work.

Speaker 2 You know, I didn't ask this question, and I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it. Have you shared with him,

Speaker 2 at least at the level that you're sharing with John and I, what's going on? I mean, does he know how bad this is from your point of view?

Speaker 31 No,

Speaker 31 we have gone through four marital counselors in three years.

Speaker 31 Two of them I felt like were not seasoned enough or on the verge of retirement. One of them fired us, and she

Speaker 31 was the one who saw the issues.

Speaker 19 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I think he actually is aware of what you feel.

Speaker 3 Or this word gets thrown around a lot, diagnostic. I mean, it gets thrown around on the internet a lot, and I'm in no way going to make any sort of diagnostic

Speaker 3 guesses here, but this sounds like a true narcissist.

Speaker 22 That was the word she used. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so, like, somebody who carries a key, that's that's a power play.

Speaker 2 That's a flex, right?

Speaker 3 That's, that's, that's somebody that not only is going to keep you from, is going to use information as power over you, but they're going to make sure you see it.

Speaker 3 That's somebody who's not well.

Speaker 3 And there are some extraordinary people.

Speaker 3 I know them, and in the Texas, in Texas, attorneys who have dedicated their lives to helping women in this exact moment, who don't know up from down, who are not allowed to live in their own home.

Speaker 3 And so, if you've already gone, my recommendation would be to sit down with your attorney and say, okay, what's step two? And I hate this for you.

Speaker 3 As Ken said, I hate having to give this kind of wisdom.

Speaker 2 We're hurting for you, Sarah.

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Speaker 2 Hey, our FPU coordinators are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with Financial Peace University, and we want to celebrate them because they deserve it.

Speaker 2 These are the men and women on the front lines, meeting real people,

Speaker 2 knee to knee in all different locations, just loving on folks.

Speaker 2 And so we'd love for you to join us at the virtual 2025 Coordinator Rally on July 24th. It's virtual, so it's easy.

Speaker 2 And whether you've coordinated a class before or you just want to see what leading FPU is all about, come on, it's an all skate. You'll hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camill, and Dr.

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Speaker 2 So register for your chance to win. You can register for free at ramseysolutions.com/slash rally, ramseysolutions.com/slash rally.

Speaker 2 Or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Let's go to Lauren in Detroit, Michigan.
Lauren, how can we help?

Speaker 20 Hi, guys.

Speaker 32 Thanks for taking the call today.

Speaker 2 You bet.

Speaker 20 I had a question.

Speaker 20 My husband and I are finally able to live together after being married for three years.

Speaker 20 But I own my house, and he doesn't, he rents, but because of our jobs, you know, his house is the

Speaker 20 better option to live at. I'm just not sure what to do with my house.

Speaker 22 It's got that great interest rate.

Speaker 20 It's, you know, I'm not sure what to do.

Speaker 2 What's it worth worth if you were to sell it today?

Speaker 20 Probably

Speaker 20 over 200, 220.

Speaker 8 What do you owe?

Speaker 20 122,000, 122,000.

Speaker 3 Sell it today and put 100,000 down on a new house. Get out of his rent house and you find yours.
Who cares about that stupid interest rate, man?

Speaker 2 You don't want to be a long-distance landlord.

Speaker 3 People are parking their whole lives on a once-in-a-millennium interest rate.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Let's play this out a little bit.
Let's play it out. Because I hear the doubt and we love doubt.
Doubt's not bad. Love it.
Let's put this to the test. Okay.

Speaker 2 So let's say you keep it at that fabulous interest rate that you're in love with. What do you think you would rent it for?

Speaker 2 Any idea?

Speaker 20 Well, I think it depends on the runner.

Speaker 20 My daughter, she's an adult.

Speaker 22 She's actually interested in either renting it herself or buying it.

Speaker 2 Give her a great deal. Let's keep playing this out.
Let's play the renting thing out because you presented us with, I kind of emotionally want to keep the house. Am I right?

Speaker 20 No, I don't think I'm emotionally tied to it.

Speaker 2 You seem very confused by John's suggestion.

Speaker 3 You don't want to give up your, this is the last attachment to your former life.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 is this true? Oh.

Speaker 3 And you may have gone through a divorce or somebody passed away and you got up and you dusted yourself off and you worked your butt off and bought a home and you paid paid off half of it.

Speaker 3 And by moving in with this person, your husband, by the way, this is the period at the end of that former sentence, right? Yeah.

Speaker 22 Well, I am just so nervous.

Speaker 20 I just hate the thought of so much of that new house payment going to so much interest.

Speaker 31 It just makes me sick.

Speaker 3 So much so that you're going to have a $100,000 brick tied around your ankle when you move in with your husband after three years in a new state?

Speaker 20 No, it's, I mean,

Speaker 20 I move right not right now. That's right.

Speaker 2 Let me go back to where I was going.

Speaker 2 Let me go back to where I was going. Here's why you shouldn't keep the house.
Number one, you're going to be long-distance landlord.

Speaker 2 I don't care if it's your daughter renting or someone else, true or false.

Speaker 20 Two hours away, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 The answer is yes, Ken. Okay, next.
Okay.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 20 And let's add to that issue. I'm not, I don't know home repairs.

Speaker 2 I know you don't. I know.
I'm getting ready to make this situation worse.

Speaker 2 All right. So you're two hours away and you don't know anything about home repairs.
You have to hire somebody. Now, let's talk about how much actual money you would make on renting this house.
Okay.

Speaker 2 What I was trying to get at, I never got an answer from you, is what is the market-based rent for that house? You don't have to tell me now because we don't need to get bogged down.

Speaker 2 But here's what I'm going to tell you. You will be shocked if you run the numbers, John, at what you can get in rent versus your mortgage payment.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 And let's just say you cleared three, four, five hundred bucks a month. Is that a fair guess?

Speaker 2 I could, yeah. Okay, all right, let's say 500.
Let's be aggressive in my example, okay? Okay, 500 a month times 12 is six thousand dollars a year, that's your gross that you're going to get.

Speaker 2 Then you got home repairs, somebody taking care of the house, that's all on you. So you aren't even going to net $6,000 a year.
All that nuisance, all that worry

Speaker 2 for

Speaker 2 maybe

Speaker 2 $3,000, $3,500, $4,000 a year. It's just not worth it.
That's why we were so quick to say sell it and move on.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 20 Oh, yeah. That's

Speaker 20 when you lay it all out like that. Man, I really was stuck on the interest rate.

Speaker 18 2.87 times.

Speaker 2 I know, and I wanted to destroy the emotion around that because guess what's going to, guess what?

Speaker 2 When you get a call at 10 o'clock on a Saturday night and you've just settled down with some ice cream to watch a movie and the person who's renting your house goes, we got a water pipe burst.

Speaker 2 And you're going to go, ha,

Speaker 2 man, that's a bummer. But 2.875%.

Speaker 2 I'm doing the happy dance.

Speaker 3 And then you're going to call somebody and then you say, cool, it's going to be $6,500 to repair it.

Speaker 3 We'll get it done on Saturday.

Speaker 3 And then your tenant's going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, in our lease, you have to put me up in a hotel and I have to actually have two rooms because there you have to

Speaker 2 sell the house. But you know, no, no, no.
Because what you're going to do is you're going to go, man, that's a bummer.

Speaker 3 Just out of pocket, $10,000, but boy, that interest rate is I love that interest rate.

Speaker 20 No, no, no, it doesn't sound so good anymore. So you would just sell it for anything I could get for it and then just put it in the middle.

Speaker 2 No, that's you being dramatic.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Sell it for market value.

Speaker 20 That's what I'm wondering. What is the, what you guys would recommend?

Speaker 3 I would get a real estate pro in that area and do and sell the house. Or I'm not opposed to you cutting your daughter a deal.
You got $100,000 in equity.

Speaker 3 And maybe you say, I'm going to knock off $25,000 for you because I love you. Or $50,000.
I mean, you picked the number. I'm going to sell it to you for $150,000.

Speaker 3 I'm going to take $50,000 into my three-year-old marriage that we're finally combining our households. Honey, I'm not living in your gross rent house because sick.

Speaker 3 We're getting a new place, and I got $50,000 to put down on it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then your daughter's got a great start.

Speaker 2 That's an I like that option.

Speaker 20 That's actually what I wanted to do. And I talked about that with her, too.
Like, if that's what they decided to do with her and events, like I was going to say, get married, but I was going to say,

Speaker 2 as a parent,

Speaker 2 don't do any sweetheart deals just for the daughter. This needs to be a big girl deal.
Now, you cut her a break on the overall total, but don't start getting tricky with financing.

Speaker 2 She needs to be a big girl, and she goes and does it just like everybody else.

Speaker 3 She's a big mortgage and buys the house from you. We're not going to shake hands and you just pay the mortgage.

Speaker 2 That's my only concern.

Speaker 3 Then you're going to blow up every Christmas from here.

Speaker 2 I told her,

Speaker 20 well, I told her flat out: like, I'm 42 years old. I can't start out, you know what I mean? Like, get a full house payment.

Speaker 20 Like, I need to have that chunk to put down to make sense where I'm at in my life.

Speaker 13 I don't want to start over.

Speaker 2 So, we gave you nothing. We gave you two really good options, but they're both sell the house and let's move.

Speaker 2 And you said you were ready to go today. I think this is the last piece.

Speaker 2 This is great.

Speaker 2 Listen, go to ramseysolutions.com and look up the real estate pros, interview two or three of them, have them come over and look at the house, go with the one that you like the most, that feels like they've educated you, and let a pro walk you through this process and to begin to exhale and get excited about this new chapter.

Speaker 2 Can I do it?

Speaker 3 Can you do one exercise for me? I want everyone listening at home in this similar situation to do this exercise, but will you do this with me?

Speaker 2 Can I do it as well? You can, can. Okay.

Speaker 3 All right. Are you ready?

Speaker 3 All right, Lauren, close your eyes. And I want you to picture

Speaker 3 that interest rate. What's the number? 2.75? Three?

Speaker 31 2.875.

Speaker 2 2.875.

Speaker 3 I want you to see those numbers. Okay.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 3 I want you to open your eyes real quick. That's a little palate cleanser.
Close them again.

Speaker 3 And I want you to imagine you're looking at your laptop, at your checking account that has $105,000, which is what you've cleared.

Speaker 2 Oh, I like it. Which number do you like looking at more?

Speaker 2 Big one. That's a bank account.

Speaker 3 Sell the house.

Speaker 2 Awesome. And America,

Speaker 3 stop holding up your life

Speaker 3 for a freaking interest rate if you gotta move if you gotta change jobs go

Speaker 2 go

Speaker 2 i loved that visualization because i was envisioning her money in my account i don't know if that was supposed to be what happened but boy that's where i went

Speaker 2 Okay, America, quick question: Are you on track with the baby steps? Some of you may go, what are you talking about? I'm new to this whole show.

Speaker 2 If you'd like to know where you stand on the baby steps or where you should be next or what are these things, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress. Great place to do this.

Speaker 2 If you go into the show notes and click on the link that says, are you on track with the baby steps? Quick little quiz.

Speaker 2 Fabulous information to kind of give you a status report. And we all, I can tell you this as humans, John, you know this as well as anybody.
We want to know where we stand. Always.
All the time.

Speaker 2 So that's a fun little quiz. Check it out in the show notes.
Des Moines, Iowa, one of John's favorite places to visit.

Speaker 3 It's Des Moines, yes, but I'll call it Des Moines. Boy, that's awkward.

Speaker 2 I missed that one completely. Owen, he's up.
He was way off.

Speaker 2 Owen is up. Owen, how can we help?

Speaker 26 Hey, that's pretty nuts there. It's Des Moines, but

Speaker 2 he knows. I know, I know.

Speaker 2 That was a joke, and I responded in kind. Sorry to throw you off.
All right. It's all all good.
All right, good.

Speaker 4 Good.

Speaker 26 So my wife and I are public school teachers and coaches. We'll make $6,800 starting in September.
Excellent. We have $30,000 in savings.

Speaker 26 My wife had $19,000 in student loans, and we paid that down to $5,000. I'll tell you why in a second.

Speaker 26 I have $23,000 left on mine.

Speaker 26 The reason we paid hers down to $5,000 is because there's a program through our student aid where if we work five consecutive years in a low-income school, which we do, we can get up to $5,000 each after that five years.

Speaker 27 In three years, we'll hit that.

Speaker 26 My question is, and I think I kind of already know the answer: do we pay mine also down to $5,000 and just wait for that?

Speaker 27 Or do we just use our savings, completely pay it off, and then just kind of start overworking back our savings?

Speaker 3 I have two,

Speaker 3 one question and then one lived experience comment. Okay.
The first question is: do you have to, is it reimbursement or is it you will just get this money back

Speaker 26 it's not reimbursement um i also have a teach grant which would kind of be that like if i didn't do the low income it would just get turned into a loan but no it i think it would just pay off or i'm i'm sure it would just pay off my remaining balance so i i really want you to get clear on

Speaker 3 if you walk in do they have to see a balance you're gonna have to pull up here's what i owe on my student loans and we will pay what's left i've not seen it happen that way.

Speaker 3 What I've seen, basically, it becomes a rolling bonus.

Speaker 3 And you have to prove that I had these student loans, I paid them off, and here is the

Speaker 3 reimbursement, if you will. But I would get some really clear insight into what that is.
And then here's my comment. I trust those programs zero, none.

Speaker 3 And I've got

Speaker 26 nuts. Yeah, none.

Speaker 3 And I'm watching states lose federal grant grant dollars by the day because they're not doing something or somebody's mad at somebody. I don't trust any of those programs.

Speaker 3 And I had some of the most extraordinary young men and women as law students

Speaker 3 who took less market money to go work with low-income folks, to go work government jobs, to go work as attorneys at nonprofits with this promised payback, and it didn't come through.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 it just kills me. So you've got the money, bro.

Speaker 3 I would rather you guys have five years of peace in your house than some carrot that government officials dangling out in front of you three to five years from now.

Speaker 26 Okay, perfect.

Speaker 8 And I do have one follow-up.

Speaker 26 We do currently put 15% in our author IRA.

Speaker 27 According to Baby Stephs, we should stop doing that.

Speaker 26 Can you tell me why?

Speaker 3 Yes, because I want you paying off your debts first. I don't want you borrowing from your future self.

Speaker 3 This doesn't really apply to you because you have the cash right now to be debt-free by the end of the day.

Speaker 24 Right.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 I would be debt-free by the end of the day. Immediately, your wife and you, you're going to have your, you're going to, you're going to pay off your, I mean, you're going to start investing.

Speaker 3 You're going to start replenishing your emergency fund. And you all are going to start your new life off to the races, my friend.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I want to make sure you understand for everybody else listening, we have a lot of people, it's a really good question.

Speaker 2 The reason we have you pause on the investing 15% while you're still in a baby step two

Speaker 2 and three is because of momentum. We want to use every nickel that comes in the door to go to that current step.
Make sense?

Speaker 2 Yes, makes sense. So it's all, Dave developed that, which it's genius.
You know, years and years of counseling people on the air, he figured it out.

Speaker 2 These baby steps are designed to do one thing and one thing only, give you the absolute most momentum possible. Right.

Speaker 3 Is this a tough journey? It's the title of Jade's book, Money's Not a Math Problem at that point. It's a psychology problem.
That's good.

Speaker 2 Love that. Kyle is up in Memphis, Tennessee.
Kyle, how can we help?

Speaker 28 Yes, I am calling in because I would like some guidance on baby step one.

Speaker 28 I'm an independent contractor driving a semi-truck,

Speaker 15 and I know the normal baby step says to save $1,000.

Speaker 28 My question is: with having a semi-truck and maintenance and things like that, what would be a good amount for baby step one?

Speaker 2 Do you have two separate accounts? In other words, do you have a personal account, a check-in account, and then do you have a check-in account for your business, the trucking?

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes, I do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, first of all, the answer is no matter what the scenario is, we never tell somebody to have more money in baby step one and bring the audience in, maybe new to this.

Speaker 2 Baby step one is $1,000 $1,000 in a savings account for your garden variety emergency. And we do this on purpose.

Speaker 2 It's as little as we think because it covers most of your emergencies and it allows you to, again, put every dime that comes in the door towards your debt, which is baby step two, taking the smallest debt first, knocking that out.

Speaker 2 And then we take that, what we're paying towards that, and we begin to roll it like a snowball and knock out all the debts. The reason I asked you the question about your separate accounts

Speaker 2 is because if those finances are different, do you have debt in your business?

Speaker 19 I do.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 How much?

Speaker 19 I have right at $43,000.

Speaker 3 What do you make in your business before you pay yourself?

Speaker 9 The

Speaker 28 right at $200,000 a year.

Speaker 3 And then what's your draw? What are you paying yourself?

Speaker 28 I have only been paying myself the amount of what my personal bills are.

Speaker 2 Real quick question. Are you sitting at a stoplight getting ready to turn left or right? I feel like I hear the blinker clicking.

Speaker 15 No, I.

Speaker 2 Do we have an egg timer?

Speaker 3 You got the emergency flashes going, huh?

Speaker 2 Yes. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 He's a safe driver, kid.

Speaker 20 I've been seeing you guys every day.

Speaker 28 I called in, spoke to someone, and they said, whenever it's your turn,

Speaker 2 pull over. I love it.
Perfect.

Speaker 2 You're good.

Speaker 3 Here's what I would consider.

Speaker 3 I would consider trying to to pay your business debt off as fast as possible, but you're going to keep the nerd term in business is retained earnings account, which is basically a business savings account.

Speaker 3 It actually is about investors, shareholders, blah, blah, blah. But think of it that way, and you've got to keep those things separate.
That's right.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. So, yes,

Speaker 28 I'm not saying statewide.

Speaker 3 Okay, so having a small account that's going to serve as your emergency fund for your business.

Speaker 3 I like the fact that you're paying yourself what you need to survive, but that means you got to take the rest of that and and pay that debt off of your business so you can begin operating because then you're going to be able to take $200,000.

Speaker 3 That's right. Minus, I think Dave likes to,

Speaker 3 he says he's never gotten here with Ramsey Solutions because we keep expanding with cash, but having up to 25% of your operating cost in retained earnings and then the rest of that, it just becomes yours, dude.

Speaker 3 Or you get to invest in hiring another driver or whatever you want to do with your company.

Speaker 9 Okay.

Speaker 2 That was my, that's what I wanted to ask about baby step one is for the maintenance and for like what on that aspect to be able to keep the that's that's business operations dude that's not that's not you personal that's why i started off immediately with do you have separate accounts so we got two journeys we got debt on both sides of the aisle but they are two separate you know journeys here to knock the debt out on both sides

Speaker 3 okay yeah that gives me guidance and a you know way to start moving forward but let me let me tell you this if you know i have this much gas i have this much for oil changes, this much for tire rotations, and new tires, and whatever,

Speaker 3 that is not a retained earning. That is a business expense that you need to account for every month.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 similar to if my kid needs braces, I need to have that money. I know that's coming every three months.
My kids got to go get their braces adjusted or whatever. That's not a surprise.

Speaker 3 That's something that me and my wife save for every month because we know that's coming. So just be honest about your business expenses on a recurring basis.

Speaker 16 Hey, George Camill here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home.
It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming.

Speaker 16 Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone.

Speaker 16 Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence.

Speaker 16 You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly, What's Not to Love?

Speaker 16 So, if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com/slash real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com/slash real estate.

Speaker 2 This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money,

Speaker 2 your profession, and your relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us.
The phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five two two five. Triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Speaker 2 Alongside the combustible, the incomparable. Dr.
John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be together for you, and we're going to go to Charlotte, where John is standing by.

Speaker 2 John, how can we help today?

Speaker 33 All right, guys.

Speaker 13 I am kind of just trying to figure out where to get started to actually be able to not live paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, the first thing we want to look at is what do you think the big problem is? Is it too much going out the door or not enough coming in the door? Or do we have some type of combo?

Speaker 11 I think it's a combo, even though the money going out the door is a temporary issue, it feels like.

Speaker 2 Tell me what that means.

Speaker 11 So I have twin boys that are three years old, and daycare alone is $516 a week.

Speaker 2 Oof. And why is that temporary?

Speaker 11 Because once they're into school age, that $2,000

Speaker 11 a month will be able to go somewhere.

Speaker 2 You're a positive guy because I would not think that two years of that kind of expense is temporary. We don't want to suffer for two more years.
That's one part of the problem.

Speaker 2 Let's talk about the income.

Speaker 2 What are we making and what are we doing for a living? So,

Speaker 13 for me, I'm a firefighter paramedic, and

Speaker 11 my wife, her 100% of her wages basically goes to the kids' daycare.

Speaker 4 Sure.

Speaker 11 And so, all my money handles everything else within the life.

Speaker 7 What do you make?

Speaker 11 I make about $53,000 to $54,000 a year.

Speaker 2 Do you have options for overtime?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 Does that figure you gave me include overtime or is overtime above?

Speaker 11 That is my base.

Speaker 2 Okay, what could you make in overtime?

Speaker 33 I could

Speaker 11 honestly

Speaker 11 work almost as much as I wanted.

Speaker 2 Well, what I would want you to know is what is feasible when we say that. Okay, and then what could we make over the course of a year? So in other words, could we go from 53 gross to 73?

Speaker 2 I'm just giving you an arbitrary number. You need to know what's possible.

Speaker 2 All right, what kind of debt?

Speaker 2 Give John and I your debt pitch.

Speaker 3 Real quick, are you on, as a fireman paramedic, are you on, what, 36s, 24s, two on, one off?

Speaker 2 How do you do that?

Speaker 11 24 on, 48 off.

Speaker 3 And what do you do on your 48 off?

Speaker 11 Try to fix the house that we have.

Speaker 3 All right, I got to tell you, brother, y'all are drowning right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And so it's not time to wax a surfboard when y'all are underwater.

Speaker 3 And so I would tell you, whether that is doing a mindless job, whether that is your kids go to daycare three days a week or two days a week and you've got them the other days, is that easy? It's a no.

Speaker 3 Good grief. And I've sat with you guys in the middle of the night, the middle of the road, and watched houses burn down.
I know how hard y'all work. And this is just a 24-month season.

Speaker 3 And if you, whatever you can do on those 48, or if you can stay over for another 24, or if you just want to get your mind off of car wrecks and cleaning things up and training and go throw boxes at a Walmart, man, you've got those 48s.

Speaker 3 Using those hours, man, would be such a blessing for 24 months. And like you say, in 24 months, everybody exhales, right?

Speaker 11 That's exactly where I just keep telling myself just a little bit longer.

Speaker 11 I just started, I guess,

Speaker 2 that's not the mindset.

Speaker 3 That's not the mindset.

Speaker 2 Let's tackle your debt because I want to show you, John and I'd like to walk you through where we could put some of that additional income we're talking about to actually increase your income as well.

Speaker 2 Give us your debt picture. Go smallest debt to largest.

Speaker 11 Right now, my smallest debt, I would say, is my car payment.

Speaker 2 Okay, how much total do you owe in the car and then give me the car payment?

Speaker 11 So I bought it last year because my vehicle went out and it's I'm at 26,000.

Speaker 2 You owe 26. What's the car payment?

Speaker 23 419.

Speaker 2 What's it worth?

Speaker 11 I would say 26,000. It was a brand new car.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. What's your next largest debt?

Speaker 32 Um

Speaker 11 my house.

Speaker 2 Okay, so the only consumer debt you have is the car?

Speaker 11 Yes Everything else is in the debt settlement that I pay every week or every three

Speaker 2 on us here What is your consolidated debt?

Speaker 3 I've got a cough I've got an itch and I've got stage three cancer like you got to say all of them

Speaker 11 So my I owed before I started my settlement in I had 12 credit cards because I was just getting a new credit card maxing out getting a new credit card

Speaker 2 How much is the combined debt consolidation?

Speaker 11 $25,000.

Speaker 2 Okay, so we got $26,000 in a car, and we got $25,000 in one big lump sum credit card debacle. Is that it?

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 2 Okay. What is that minimum payment on that?

Speaker 2 John's getting a bowl of mailocks.

Speaker 32 $217 a paycheck.

Speaker 2 So $434 a month?

Speaker 9 Correct.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I just want you to see that what we're looking at here in our debt payments, okay,

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 almost $900 a month. Boy, that would be nice to get back in your bank account.
Yes or no?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.
So that's the mindset we got to have. I knock this debt out.
I give myself a $900 raise. We're not waiting for the twins to go to school to get some type of financial break.

Speaker 2 You have agency. You have opportunity to go with the agency in the sense of John laid out what you could do to make more money.
So

Speaker 2 if I'm you, I'm looking at if I could escape from this car, do you have any cash and savings at all anywhere? Any cash?

Speaker 11 Zero.

Speaker 3 Okay. Okay, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 I'm getting all burnt up. I'm going to talk to you direct.
Is that cool, brother?

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Okay.

Speaker 3 You have two days off every other day, period.

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 3 You have a $26,000 car that you cannot afford. In one month, you could save up $4,000

Speaker 3 in extra money and go buy yourself a lame car. Everybody at station is going to make fun of you.
Who cares? In one year, you could earn $25,000 extra dollars and pay this whole debt settlement off.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 3 You are waiting for life to happen to you by walking around and fixing a gate and messing with some sheetrock, and your soul is burning down inside your chest, dude.

Speaker 2 And the thing that you have that very few.

Speaker 3 I know, and very few callers on this show have is four extra days a week to work.

Speaker 2 Two grand a month is what John's telling you.

Speaker 3 That's it. You're free.

Speaker 2 Two extra. Free.
Two extra grand a month. You tell me you can't earn that?

Speaker 2 I absolutely can. Get after it.
Let's go, dude.

Speaker 2 Sell the car, like John said, and go make the extra money. And you just gave yourself a $900 a month raise by paying that debt off.

Speaker 2 And then imagine having an emergency fund of three to six months of your expenses. How would you sleep then, John?

Speaker 4 Much better.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 Dude, this is literally in the palm of your hand. Right now, get on the phone and get a second job and start tomorrow.

Speaker 2 Game on day one.

Speaker 16 Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible?

Speaker 16 Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it.

Speaker 16 You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps.

Speaker 16 So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from Broke today at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Speaker 16 That's ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Speaker 2 Time for our question of the day, which is brought to you by our friends at YReFi.

Speaker 2 If you're struggling with defaulted private studio loans, YReFi offers a great solution to help get you back on track for a low fixed rate and a lot more flexibility. Go to YReFi.com/slash Ramsey.

Speaker 2 That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 2 And I'll read the question as well.

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 2 I'll do it.

Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Brooke in Illinois. I started a new job this week and I'm 15 weeks pregnant.
After years of trying, it's truly a blessing to be this far along. Amazing.
I've been there.

Speaker 3 Congratulations. I didn't expect having to change employers, but I lost my job and had to find another quickly, so here I am.

Speaker 3 My new company provides four months paid maternity leave after four months of employment.

Speaker 3 I don't feel comfortable telling them until after my four months of employment, and I think I can hide it until then.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 3 What should I say in this discussion when I tell them the news?

Speaker 3 I'm open to sharing my infertility journey as I do think that would help them understand my situation, but I'm not sure that's necessary.

Speaker 3 I hope to be with this employer for a long time, so I really want to make a good impression and not be labeled as the girl who started a job while pregnant.

Speaker 2 Help.

Speaker 3 I got some strong feelings on this one, Ken. Share it.

Speaker 3 The last thing I want any new mother in the world to do, particularly somebody, because I've been down this road,

Speaker 3 that when you get the most incredible, joyous news of your life, the first thing you think to do is to hang your head. And I hate that.

Speaker 2 Now, when you said you've been down this road, you mean you hired somebody that this happened to you?

Speaker 3 No, I've experienced, yes, I've had this happen, but also I've experienced infertility in my house, right? Okay, gotcha. And so

Speaker 3 what I want everybody in this situation, you and your husband doing, is cheering from the rooftops, right?

Speaker 3 And there's a reality here. So my question number one would be, is this a big multinational corporation that has some detached HR that has an inflexible, here's just how we do things?

Speaker 3 Or are you working at a place like here that if we had a four, I don't know what our, I don't think we have this policy at all, but if we had a four-month policy and somebody got pregnant at month three, I'm confident that we'd be like, oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 Go get them, right? So I

Speaker 3 that would be my first thing.

Speaker 3 The second thing is, I don't ever want you compromising your integrity

Speaker 3 for some

Speaker 3 down-the-road kind of thing. I want you to be fully honest, fully whole, fully you, fully celebrating.
And if your company fires you, you dodged a bullet like the matrix. That's right.

Speaker 3 And you don't want to work for a company that is that soulless and that lack of

Speaker 3 that lacking that much integrity on their side. So that's my take on it.

Speaker 2 I can't add anything to that. That's exactly what I was going to say.
You have to tell the truth. I think this is actually a powerful story.
And I think anybody with a heart is going to go,

Speaker 2 well, that's a bummer. We sure, you know, it's a bummer for us because we hire you and now you're going to go away.
But my gosh, we're happy for you.

Speaker 3 And let's flip it around.

Speaker 2 So they are right.

Speaker 3 If you hold this to go, oh, she's somebody who will hide stuff from us.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. You got to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you out.

Speaker 2 That's the deal. And you let the chips fall where they may, because here's the deal.
You're not going to change the pregnancy. Right.
So life is already dictated. This is my reality.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Just please don't go in there. And this is easy for me to say.

Speaker 3 Please don't go in there and apologize. I'm so sorry.
I walk in there and say, after years of infertility, we're pregnant and I'm having a, we're, that drives crazy people say that, but I'm pregnant.

Speaker 3 I'm having a baby. And can we talk logistics?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's what I do.
Yeah. Love it.
Jen is up in St. Louis, Missouri.
Jen, how can we help today?

Speaker 23 Hi, I'm so excited to speak to both of you. It is truly an honor.
Thank you for being you and being awesome and being a part of this team.

Speaker 23 I am a longtime Ramsey fan, so I'm going to try to use your terms to kind of cut to the heat of what I'm asking about. I got talked into starting.

Speaker 23 Can you hear me? Yep.

Speaker 23 I got talked into starting a VUL policy. I have a gazelle-like intensity.
My husband and I both do. We have two full-time jobs.
We have real estate with multiple streams of income.

Speaker 23 So we were left with a lot of liquid money we weren't sure what to do with. I own a school for young minds, and I really want to dedicate my life to that.

Speaker 23 I had a goal in my head to be financially retired. I have a number I want to hit in 12 years when I'm 55.

Speaker 23 I got talked into VUL policy, but after listening to you all for a few months, I think maybe I paid a giant stupid tax.

Speaker 23 At the velocity of which I put money into this for about 11 months, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 So I would love your advice. All right, I want to make sure we catch everybody else.

Speaker 2 When you say VUL, you're talking about a variable universal life policy, otherwise known as whole life.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you know what we believe about whole life. I mean, I was on with Dave earlier this week.
I do.

Speaker 2 And I mean, every time he gets the call, I just get nervous and I slightly move my chair to the right because I feel the heat emanating off. Spontaneously coming off.

Speaker 2 John has been in the same position.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Good day to to call in with this because we're not going to go on a giant rant.

Speaker 3 You can't see because of

Speaker 3 how we show the show, but there is burn marks at the top of the studio, right above.

Speaker 2 You know, I never noticed that. It's charred.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Dave doesn't have any hair on the top of his head, and the smoke and the fire shoots up.

Speaker 2 True story. That's why Dave is bald

Speaker 2 whole life. Hold on.

Speaker 2 You got it. So the answer is.

Speaker 2 Well, hold on. I can add one more.

Speaker 8 Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 Not yet. Let's just bury the city.
You should not have bought it. You're aware of it.
You don't need me or John to pile on. Get out of it.

Speaker 2 Don't put another nickel in it. I want to hear her.

Speaker 3 All right, now it's time for her, but I'm different. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 23 Well, my brother is that I, at 55, I want to have income to replace the, because right now

Speaker 23 I work in tech and I run the school. Okay.
And I want to have enough income so that my daughters don't suffer the lack of income that that will shift down to. So that was the rule, right?

Speaker 23 The other piece of this is that I was talking to it because we have health concerns in my family.

Speaker 23 And it was like, what if you have a health concern and then you want income if you're not dead, but you're still alive and you get expensive?

Speaker 2 I know, but

Speaker 3 you're taking your money, you're handing it to somebody who's going to invest it, and they're going to pay you an embarrassingly low rate.

Speaker 3 They're going to take the money and build themselves a new building and drive a newer car.

Speaker 3 And so take the money you're already putting in there and put it in the exact same market they're putting it in, except keep the return, yeah, or put that money into insurance if you've got some type of real health thing and you've got doctors saying there's a high probability.

Speaker 2 The point is, we want you to take care of your money. This is not a good product, it's never been a good product.

Speaker 2 You've heard us ran on this before, and if you need more on this, I'm going to cede the balance of my time to the gentleman from Texas because he's actually nicer than me.

Speaker 2 But this is a bad idea. You know, it's a bad idea.

Speaker 3 Here's what I'm curious about: you are clearly brilliant.

Speaker 2 Brilliant.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 3 you've mentioned probably four times, maybe five,

Speaker 3 that you were talked into this. I'm wondering if the bigger issue here is you're not a woman who gets talked into anything.

Speaker 3 But you did on this one and you're kicking yourself and you're trying to do some mathematics, like some gymnastics to make this thing okay because you did a thing that you don't like to do.

Speaker 2 Tell him what he's fun, Bob.

Speaker 3 Pay the stupid tax.

Speaker 3 You're still awesome.

Speaker 3 I almost said a swear word. You're still rad.
You're awesome. Go on and don't make this mistake again.

Speaker 23 How would you suggest how I could achieve what I'm looking for? Is it just putting into brokerage's account all of our extra money into that?

Speaker 3 Well, it depends on the nature and the acuity of your health issues.

Speaker 3 I've got money in high yield savings account that I have decided

Speaker 3 I want access to it is worth the potential return on it. And then I put the rest of it, yeah, and brokerage and management real estate.

Speaker 2 Could be that, now, again, you need to, this is a medical professional. I'm not telling you to do this, but if you know the specificity of this, we've got a history of this.

Speaker 2 Maybe long-term care insurance. Absolutely.
So this is, again, a long-term care is far more safe. Am I right, John? Yes.
It's a policy.

Speaker 3 What are you worried about your daughter suddenly starving from?

Speaker 23 Well, I grew up poor and I have a scarcity mindset, which I'm working through.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 23 A really, really creative space around that because I've kind of become a bear and fearful and then I make stupid mistakes

Speaker 2 when asking big questions.

Speaker 3 I'm with you.

Speaker 3 We're the same person.

Speaker 2 What is your net worth right now? What do you have in retirement?

Speaker 23 So we have over a million dollar net worth and we've filled every bucket you can normally fill.

Speaker 2 Stop it, Jen. You just lost the sympathy of everyone in the studio audience in all of America.
You're fine.

Speaker 3 I'm going to send you holding a non-anxious life, my book, as a gift to you because you've got deeper rooted challenges and I've lived your life and I'll, not your life, but I've got these same scarcity challenges.

Speaker 3 And I want you to read this book and use it as a roadmap for what comes next. You're fine financially.

Speaker 16 Hey guys, George Campbell here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators.

Speaker 16 If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th.

Speaker 16 It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories, and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw, and Dr. John Deloney.
It's totally free.

Speaker 16 And when you register, you'll be entered to win our $3,000 giveaway. So just head to fpu.com slash rally to save your spot today.
That's fpu.com slash rally.

Speaker 2 Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, and I know there's a lot of you out there because the data tells us so, and I've been there before, it's exhausting.

Speaker 2 No shame in your game, but we do want to say come on into the pool of having margin. The water's real nice.
I got a big floaty, a little Arna Palmer in the cup holder, and a really wacky straw.

Speaker 2 It's great. It's great over here in the debt-free pool.
We'd love you to join us. It's a free...

Speaker 3 It's a jazz playing in the background.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Absolutely right.

Speaker 2 Free Every Dollar Training is what I'm attempting to set up. This is free.
Did I mention that it's free? And it's hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. George just hosted one a couple days ago.

Speaker 2 We're going to show you how to stick to a budget using Every Dollar. And we're going to help you find $9,000 of margin using Every Dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth.

Speaker 2 You can sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. I should mention not only you learning in a low-pressure setting, you also get a chance to ask questions.
And did I mention that it was free?

Speaker 2 I did. Everydollar.com/slash webinar.
See you there. Robbie's up in Omaha.
Give me a Peyton Manning, Omaha, real quick, John. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 2 You don't watch football, do you? I do. Yeah, never.

Speaker 2 He missed the moment. The moment's gone.
Robbie is there in Omaha. Robbie, how can we help?

Speaker 15 Hey, oh my gosh.

Speaker 26 Thanks for taking my call. I just randomly called you guys out of the blue, just kind of out of

Speaker 5 really just being extremely stressed out.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, we're here for you guys. What's going on?

Speaker 6 Thank you, guys.

Speaker 10 Yeah, so

Speaker 27 currently in the process of a divorce,

Speaker 21 it's pretty, pretty nasty overall.

Speaker 12 We

Speaker 7 combined between the two of us, we have,

Speaker 7 and I'm just speaking,

Speaker 7 my debts and our joint debts,

Speaker 21 we have about

Speaker 21 500K

Speaker 21 combined.

Speaker 2 Does that include a house or is that not included a house?

Speaker 7 It does include a house.

Speaker 2 Give us the

Speaker 3 break.

Speaker 2 Yeah, give us the breakground, excuse me, the breakdown minus the house, please.

Speaker 10 Okay, so minus the house.

Speaker 21 I have $170,000 in student loans.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 7 I also have $20,000 in personal loans.

Speaker 26 We both each have our own cars.

Speaker 7 Hers is $9,000.

Speaker 7 Mine is $7,000.

Speaker 2 Is her name on that one, or is your name on both?

Speaker 2 My name's on both. Okay, so let's call it $16,000 in cars, correct?

Speaker 3 Yep. Okay.
And a quick question. Were y'all married when you were in college?

Speaker 7 Not no. It was after college.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. What other debt do we have left?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so

Speaker 7 I also have $9,000 in medical bills, and

Speaker 7 we each have combined $8,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Is the divorce final?

Speaker 7 No. We're in the mediation process right now.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 What's nasty about it when you when you say that?

Speaker 8 It's

Speaker 8 I mean, it's it's been

Speaker 15 just non-stop

Speaker 4 harassment for a very long time and

Speaker 8 just just more on the

Speaker 21 emotional and mental

Speaker 2 load.

Speaker 2 What is your income?

Speaker 7 So my income,

Speaker 7 it was $73,000 annually.

Speaker 21 Right now,

Speaker 7 for the last two months, it's dropped down to only $10,000.

Speaker 21 I transitioned

Speaker 27 and now

Speaker 2 you are making $73,000 gross and you said you just transitioned into a job where you're making $10,000 gross for the year?

Speaker 19 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's not even real.

Speaker 2 What is happening? Give me the details as quickly as possible so we can dive in on this problem.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 10 I worked a job where I

Speaker 15 had to move into

Speaker 12 third shift.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 prior to that, I did not have legal counsel. I was trying to make all my payments on time.
I was

Speaker 10 trying to make all of our payments on time,

Speaker 7 and she just left me with everything.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no, no, I get that. I'm sorry.
How do you go from what is your job to where you're only making $10,000 a year? Are you in healthcare?

Speaker 10 Yep.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I don't understand.

Speaker 3 How did you roll down to $10,000? Like, you can go to Starbucks today or go to McDonald's and double that.

Speaker 3 What are you doing to make $10,000 now?

Speaker 29 So I'm working

Speaker 7 at the Y trying to build my.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 2 Did you get let go?

Speaker 2 Did something happen in your medical practice? No. No.

Speaker 10 No. So

Speaker 7 as soon as I moved to third shift, that's when she came in and filed a temporary order and

Speaker 7 I lost custody of my kids.

Speaker 2 Okay. I lost

Speaker 2 custody of my kids.

Speaker 3 So you had a restraining order out against you right now?

Speaker 4 No,

Speaker 7 I have no restraining order.

Speaker 2 Okay, let let me ask. I'm so sorry.
I got to lean in. We have limited time.
Okay, so we don't have a lot of time for a backstory. I got to get some facts.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 What specifically did you do in healthcare? What was your title position? What were you? Were you a nurse?

Speaker 2 What were you doing?

Speaker 9 No, no, no.

Speaker 6 So I wasn't in healthcare. I was in corrections.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you were your corrections officer? Yeah. Did you lose your job?

Speaker 6 No, I resigned

Speaker 34 because

Speaker 14 I

Speaker 15 in order for in order for me to even try to get custody of my kids back, and because she took

Speaker 10 full custody, because of the schedule change, my lawyer said it doesn't matter how much you make right now in order to get even joint custody, you have to have a schedule that is in the best interest of the kids.

Speaker 2 Okay, got it. Okay, got it.
Now, here's my only question. I understand the lawyer, and I'm no lawyer.

Speaker 2 I can't push back, John, you may have an opinion on this, but again, you have a massive income problem, and your lawyer is an idiot if your lawyer isn't considering the income because you got to take care of you, not to mention the kids.

Speaker 2 So why aren't we working a job in the same YMCA schedule in corrections or something else?

Speaker 10 So I am actually just about to get a job that

Speaker 21 is more in the health involved.

Speaker 2 How much will you make when you get that job and when will that happen?

Speaker 21 $78,000 a year.

Speaker 2 Okay. And when does that start? Yeah.

Speaker 27 So I don't have an official start date.

Speaker 21 Right now I'm going to,

Speaker 14 it's through a company.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Listen, until you have a start date.

Speaker 3 And I'm hoping that you're trying to be coy because you're in the middle of a divorce. You want to be careful about what you say.
Because

Speaker 3 the way you're putting it out doesn't make a lot of logical sense.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm struggling um you your attorney's advice you can't if you file bankruptcy today you're basically going to discharge like 30 grand you can't discharge 170 000 right and so the idea that you're going to bankrupt this money away is false and so this the the the next layer is I don't care what, what, how much money you make, just go do this thing, or you're going to lose your kids.

Speaker 3 You're going to lose your house and your kids and your car and your food. You don't have any money, man.

Speaker 3 And so the idea that you're going to go for making 75 grand third shift, I get that's a miserable life. I know those guys.
The guys who work third shift in corrections are just studs.

Speaker 3 And that doesn't mean you hit the pendulum so far, you start working for less than.

Speaker 3 My son probably makes more than that. And he's 15.
Like, you got to go say, okay, cool. I'm going to go throw boxes.
I'm going to go run deliveries.

Speaker 3 I'm going to work like crazy during these hours when my wife has a kid so that I can have all my days off. And if you don't have a start date, awesome.
It sounds weird, but great.

Speaker 3 go get a whole bunch of jobs in between

Speaker 3 but you're you're you've backed yourself into a crazy corner and dude you owe a hundred how did you get a hundred seventy thousand dollars for a corrections job

Speaker 26 it wasn't for corrections what was your degree then yeah

Speaker 3 criminology and criminal justice go get a freaking job yeah go be a policeman dude go to the go to the academy this is nuts unless you're unless dude unless you're trying to hide money for a divorce which i hope to god you're not doing because that's going to come out you

Speaker 2 Something's not adding up to this. I tell you what, I do want to do because we spent so much time just excavating some facts from you.
Can we set him up?

Speaker 2 Let's get him one, our gift, a session with a financial coach to kind of map out the future here once we get the freaking job.

Speaker 2 Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 54, verse 2. Enlarge the place of your tent, stretch your tent curtains wide, do not hold back.
Lengthen your cords and strengthen your stakes.

Speaker 2 And then quite a pivot from Isaiah 54

Speaker 2 to our quote of the day from Ozzie Osbourne. Okay.

Speaker 2 You've got to try and take things to the next level or you'll just get stuck in a rut.

Speaker 2 Might as well have been a quote from Farmer's Almanac.

Speaker 3 We're going off the rails.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure what the team did there, but I'm just here to read what they put in front of me. You know, there you go.

Speaker 2 Michael is joining us now in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Michael, how can we help?

Speaker 4 Good evening, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 2 You bet. What's going on?

Speaker 8 Yeah, man.

Speaker 14 I'm wanting to make a retirement plan for January of 27.

Speaker 4 I meet the retirement

Speaker 12 protocol for my company,

Speaker 4 but I'll only be 54.

Speaker 28 And

Speaker 4 I want to see if I can make the same money after I retire.

Speaker 2 Okay, how do you think you're going to go about doing that?

Speaker 4 So, through work, sorry, through work, we have a pension plan. I have two options on my pension plan.

Speaker 4 One is that at retirement, I will have

Speaker 4 $80,000 a year on pension. My last year's income was roughly $144,000.

Speaker 4 Taxable income was

Speaker 4 $120,000 after I

Speaker 4 funded my retirement stuff so I'll be at 80 there and my 457 will be you know they're projecting 450 but right now it's at 404

Speaker 4 okay so I would like to you know he'll make that 120 to to 140.

Speaker 2 Okay now when you say that I want to make sure we're on the same page with you when you say that you mean through pulling out

Speaker 2 you know the pulling out from your retirement accounts are you saying go above and beyond and by going out I'm going to work another job while pulling retirement from my old job.

Speaker 4 So, man, I'll tell you, ideally, I would like to be able to retire and

Speaker 8 live off

Speaker 4 that money invested.

Speaker 2 What are you going to do, brother?

Speaker 8 Man, I'll tell you something, man, guys.

Speaker 4 Probably like most of y'all, I've worked

Speaker 10 since I was big enough to push a lawnmower.

Speaker 4 So,

Speaker 4 I'm a family homebody.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 here's the thing: all the data tells me that that the moment a and this is not universal um gendered, but I'm gonna make it so the day a man quits work and does not have a purpose, his body shuts down.

Speaker 3 Health outcomes worsen.

Speaker 3 Everything falls off a cliff. So when you tell me, I just want, dude, I've been working hard my whole life, dude, I'm with you.
I've had a mowing job since I was eight years old.

Speaker 2 Like I'm with you.

Speaker 3 This idea that I want to do nothing, I'm telling you right now as my neighbor and my friend, it's going to kill you.

Speaker 3 I see that.

Speaker 4 I see that. I'm involved with my family.

Speaker 4 We're all Christians, not that that matters, but yeah, I might do something, but I just want to know that I can take this money and my

Speaker 4 and my

Speaker 2 so that would whatever I got would be you know what fluff or you know mad money or whatever I want so what's your total what do you have total in retirement

Speaker 4 I have 404

Speaker 4 and a 457 and then my pension will be 80,000 a year.

Speaker 2 And so could you live off of just the pension alone of 80,000?

Speaker 2 If you run some numbers.

Speaker 2 Close. Okay.
So here's the practical answer to your question, okay? Here's the practical answer.

Speaker 2 John, Ken, I want to know, can I live off of what I got right now? So you got to run a budget, and you currently have a budget, I hope.

Speaker 2 I know it. It's not written down.

Speaker 19 So what I...

Speaker 2 Need a written,

Speaker 2 Bro. Okay, hold on.
You're hilarious. Michael, just listen to the question you're asking us.

Speaker 3 I want to stop working. I want to keep making the exact same amount of money I made when I was working.
I don't want to really do anything but kind of be a family guy.

Speaker 3 And I kind of got it all up in my head.

Speaker 3 We are telling you, we're promising you as your neighbor here in Nashville. This is a recipe for a car crash.
Yeah, it's not going to work.

Speaker 2 So let's get to the tactical, okay? First thing is, is you need to download every dollar. It's our budgeting budgeting app.
It's the best thing.

Speaker 2 And you need to start tinkering with it and plug in real numbers and no longer have this, I got a general idea. No, no, we need to know what we actually need to live on.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm talking your basic four walls, food, clothing, utilities, your housing, transportation, all of that stuff. Okay.
And then, you know, what you and mama think retirement life is going to look like.

Speaker 2 You know, what's our weekend thing?

Speaker 2 Are we going down to so, you know, to the

Speaker 2 chicken, the hot chicken place in Names? Hattie B's. Haddy B's.
Well, what are we doing? You know, and so here's the deal. First things first, what is our actual operating budget? Okay.

Speaker 2 Second, do we have any debt? If we have debt,

Speaker 2 we need to clear debt.

Speaker 3 Do you have any?

Speaker 4 So I have a $168,000 left on my house.

Speaker 19 That's low for two point something.

Speaker 4 So it's $1,000 a month.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 24 House number.

Speaker 10 And then the rest is just the you know living expenses of the house, not so you have no consumer debt.

Speaker 19 No.

Speaker 2 Great. So we check that off the list.
So we now got a budget. And so now, Michael, you need to call John and I and go, you know, I need to know if I've got enough.

Speaker 2 Once we have a budget, we know what it's going to take to live. Now we start matching it up with, we know we have $80,000 coming in from the pension.
And so we go, okay, what is the take-home on that?

Speaker 2 Okay. And so we start matching it up.
And then we've got $450,000 over here. And if I draw, how much would I need to draw from the 450 to make up the difference of the 80?

Speaker 2 Okay. You still tracking with me? Correct.
Yes, sir. Okay.
And so then we have a number. And then we go, if I draw that much, can I draw from the 450 enough to offset?

Speaker 2 What's missing from the 80 if I need a little bit more? And that's what you've laid out to me. And so can I draw, hold on a second, hold on.
Can I draw that out and not touch the principal?

Speaker 2 I think it's going to be tight. And I think you would also need to sit down with what we call Smart Vestor Pros.
Go to Ramsey Solutions. If you don't have one, get one.

Speaker 2 Interview three, four, five, and sit down and let a pro look at your retirement nest egg and what you want to do and what you want to live off of.

Speaker 2 And by the way, they're going to need to know a real budget for them to advise you.

Speaker 3 Can I tell you something, Michael? Yes, sir. This is not a baby step.
This is just John and my friend Michael, who are neighbors here in Nashville.

Speaker 3 You're 54, is that what you said?

Speaker 19 I will be

Speaker 4 when I want to retire.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Give me a ballpark. You don't have to tell me the job because we're on national radio, but what do you do for a living, ish?

Speaker 3 I'm in safety. You're in what? Sales?

Speaker 10 In safety.

Speaker 3 In safety, there you go. Okay.
Can I tell you?

Speaker 3 I would sit down. It's going to be a cheesy exercise, and it's not the dollar amount you asked, but

Speaker 3 it's going to be an important conversation to have with yourself. I would love for you to have an imaginary conversation.
You can write a letter.

Speaker 3 You can just do it in your mind and have a conversation with 65-year-old you. And here's the question I would ask.
If you work two more years and put all that down and pay your house off,

Speaker 3 are you going to be glad you did that versus getting out and having an asset that you still owe money on as you're trying to also retire and do these fun things that you want to do?

Speaker 3 that's just me i see what i don't think i would pull that trigger at 54 i love that until my house is paid off that's just me i think it's great advice right

Speaker 4 so i've got a uh plan uh two options on pension okay i can they uh a formula i plugged in today

Speaker 4 second option on the pension is we're allowed to take 50 percent of our uh this is the 80 grand not the 457 50 of that up to a certain age we can get as a lump sum Right now, that lump sum, but if you take 50%, the 80 goes to 40, right?

Speaker 4 But so the lump sum in addition to my 457 right now is about 620,000 lump sum.

Speaker 29 So it'll be 620 plus the 440

Speaker 4 and then 40,000 a year.

Speaker 3 Dave can do that math in his head.

Speaker 3 I would recommend you sit down with a smart investor because I would be tempted to take, if the math works, to take that lump sum, pay my house off, and then put the rest in an investment.

Speaker 3 If it's going to accrue faster than your pension, which I bet it will, but do not do that based on my advice. I would sit down with the Smart Investor Pro and rattle that off.

Speaker 3 That's what I would do. And they take the 40, but I also would not quit my life

Speaker 3 at 54. You're halfway home, brother.

Speaker 2 54 is young, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Keep on working. I love your advice.

Speaker 3 Find some purpose, man.

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Speaker 16 That's tomorrow's episode, today.

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Speaker 16 You never know what calls coming up next.