It's Not Too Late To Become a Millionaire

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality.

George Camille is my co-host today.

He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on the Ramsey networks.

You can check him out there.

And we're here to help you guys.

The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Chuck is in Albany, New York.

Hey, Chuck, what's up?

Hey, good afternoon.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Looking for a little advice.

So a lot has changed in the last seven months.

Recently, I found sobriety.

I've been sober for seven months.

Good for you.

Awesome.

Lost 40 pounds.

Wow.

Started a whole new fitness thing.

Wow.

I'm 48, and

you start feeling your age a little bit.

Sure.

In

the light of sobriety, you also realize that finances haven't been managed very well.

And so

the wife and I are empty nesters, recently empty nesters.

So we sold our house, bought a smaller house, about the same price.

And

now I have debt that it's, you know, I'm paying attention to.

And I'm trying to be intentional about paying it off.

We have a first and a second mortgage.

I have a truck loan and three credit cards.

Okay.

Minus the mortgage, everything comes to about $50,473.

I contribute 6% to a 401k.

And that's, you know, it's building, but I'm wondering, is it too late to become a millionaire by the time I retire?

No.

You can still make it.

And then some.

You'll have even more than that.

What's your household income?

I bring home.

A household income is about $140.

Excellent.

What do you do for a living?

I'm a paramedic.

Okay.

Very good.

Very good.

And what did you kick?

Alcohol or what?

Whiskey.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Specific alcohol.

Okay.

Yeah.

Sorry.

It's okay.

It's good.

You know,

in

our days off, you know, you learn to deal with trauma in unhealthy ways like most first responders do.

And so just a cliche, but part of that debt was I hired a personal trainer.

And I just put that on the credit card, which, in my opinion, yeah, I didn't have the money to do it, but it also

kicked off the path of sobriety,

being healthy, taught me a a lot of tools on how to eat right, exercise, but also my finances kind of came to light.

How long had you been drinking?

Oh,

well, 48 and started when I was a teenager.

Okay.

Well, congratulations.

I'm very, very proud of you.

If you can do that, you can get out of some debt.

We can help with that.

Yeah.

If you're 40 pounds and sober and now debt-free, your whole life is going to be changed.

I'm so proud of you.

You are taking control of everything.

And

that is a

very healthy emotional place for you to be.

Proactive, attacking all these different things.

You're very detailed.

You know exactly.

You didn't say, oh, 50 or 60.

You said $50,432.22.

I mean, you've got it nailed down.

All of this tells me you're game on, and we would love to help you.

Okay?

So

let me give you some basics, and then I will also give you some tools.

we teach a process

that is very very intense

until you are debt-free except the house so until you clear 50 grand making 140

okay so 140 minus 50 is 90

right

okay so that means I'm going to have you be debt-free in a year or less not counting your house

so we're going to cut your lifestyle to nothing.

Beans and rice, rice and beans.

Okay.

No eating out, no vacations.

We're cleaning up the mess so that we can step into the bright new future away from the dark old past.

Okay.

And that's what I want you to do.

So do you have any money and savings that's not retirement?

Yes.

How much?

About $800.

Okay.

All right, good.

So we break this down into baby steps.

Let me walk you through them and then I'll tell you how it works to you.

And George and I will give you some input, okay?

Baby step one is you save $1,000 as fast as you can.

Okay.

Now you got $800, so we got to get this month's budget.

We're going to put 200 more in there.

A little baby starter, not good enough, but a little bit of a place to start emergency fund.

Okay.

Then right from there, we're going to stop your 401k temporarily, even though there's a match.

I don't care.

I want complete focus on sobriety, physical condition, and debt freedom.

Okay.

Nothing else.

Complete focus.

And you and your wife are looking at this budget and you are squeezing it until it screams.

And you put everything you can find in the budget on your smallest debt while paying minimum payments on the other.

I'm suspecting that your smallest debt's a credit card.

Does that sound right?

That's correct.

Okay.

So you list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

attack the little one with a vengeance.

I need about $4,000 to $5,000 a month without the 401k being withheld and the proper amount withholding.

Did you get a big tax refund last year?

No, I could pay.

Okay, good.

All right, let's leave it right where it is.

I want you to plow into this as hard as you can.

I need about $5,000 a month going towards debt.

Okay.

If you do that, you're going to be out of debt in 10 months.

That's cool.

That would be great.

And can we fast forward, what happens after that, once you have that emergency fund, you're going to go from investing 6% to 0%, but then back up to 15%.

And I crunched the numbers for you.

That's about $17.50 a month into those retirement accounts.

With no payments but a house payment.

And what happens from, let's say you're 49 at that point, right?

You're debt-free, investing at 15% at 49 to 67.

That's $17.50 a month.

If you never get a race, you guys stay $140 the rest of your life at a 10% return, you're going to be looking at a million bucks in that nest egg.

That's not even including what your home is worth.

And that's no match.

Do you get a match?

Right.

Yeah, 7%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

you'll have more than that.

You'll have about a million four.

So you'll be a millionaire in no time.

Okay.

Basically, I just got to break the habits of what we're doing now.

Exactly.

It's resetting, just like you're eating,

just like your alcohol intake.

We're resetting your brain patterns, right?

And so the budget budget with your wife becomes your accountability meeting.

Okay.

And we're going to sit down.

We both have this goal because your strongest, most powerful wealth-building tool is your income.

And we can't give your income to a bank in the form of debt payments and get rich.

So we got to stop it.

Okay.

So we're going to plug you into a thing called Financial Peace University that's going to walk you and your wife right through this stuff.

We're also going to plug you into an upgraded version of our financial app called Every Dollar, which helps you to get on a budget and then work those steps that we were talking about.

Okay.

Okay.

And I'm so proud of you.

I want to be, we're going to give all that to you as our gift.

Okay.

We want to be part of your new sobriety and part of your new wonderful, bright, clean life that you're developing.

And we'll help you with the financial parts.

You got the other two things on the run.

I'm so proud of you.

Well done.

Keep it up, baby.

Keep it up.

That's cool.

I love this story.

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Jim's in Fort Lauderdale.

Hey, Jim, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, good afternoon.

My question to you is: I know exactly how you feel about car payments, having watched multiple episodes of your show.

My wife and I are both retired.

Most of our retirement savings is in, I was a government employee in the TSP, so basically the 401k.

How much is in that?

I'm wondering, about 1.2.

Okay.

And

you're over 59 and a half.

I am.

Well, yes, I'm 60.

That's correct.

All right.

And my question to you is: I know exactly how you feel about car payments, but we are in the place where we do need to buy a new car.

Multiple companies down here are offering 0% financing.

Is it better for me?

I was planning on setting up a monthly withdrawal on a 0% financed car to pay a car payment on a 0%

rather than take the lump sum out of my 401k

to, well, I say 401k, but TSP, to just buy the car outright because it's returning more than

the interest.

That's because you don't understand the rules of 0%.

Correct.

The rules of 0% are that you have to pay MSRP.

And I don't know any fool that would do that for a car.

Nope, I agree with you on that.

So it's 0% is not actually 0%.

Okay.

So just take the money out of your 401k, buy a car.

You're a millionaire, dude.

Quit screwing around with this stuff.

No, I know, but

I'm cheap.

I know.

You're cheap in your way.

You're

stepping over dollars.

Pick up nickels.

Just go buy a car.

Okay.

And if you want to be cheap, buy a used car.

Wait,

no, he's a millionaire.

Go get your wife a car, man.

Come on.

Is it for your wife?

Her car is 24 years old, and mine's 23 years old.

Oh, my goodness.

Y'all are cheap.

You're millionaires.

Go buy your wife a car, man.

But that's how I got to be that way.

No, but it's not going to keep you from being a millionaire.

You buy two cars, you're still a millionaire.

Okay.

And you know what that million dollars is going to be worth in seven years?

Two million dollars.

That's what I'm hoping for.

Yeah.

That's why I hope you're not going to be a business.

And it won't be worth that because

you didn't pay cash for a car.

No one ever got rich financing a car.

You got rich because you lived on less than you make, and you steadily, every single month, put money in that TSP like it was a religion.

And that's how you got rich, because you're the man.

So, okay.

Now lighten up and go buy your wife a car.

And turn off whatever social media is offering these 0% or whatever mailers they're sending you.

I don't know where it's coming from.

It's the new car.

Contractor.

It's the new car dealer because he can get MSRP and then he takes that contract

and sells it back to his own

Ford Motor Credit or whoever the crap is doing this stuff.

It's always been a shell game.

Okay, let's just kind of establish something, folks.

Let's think about this.

Here's a thing to think about.

There is no such thing as free.

Take that to your socialist college professor.

There is no such thing as free.

Someone somewhere is paying for it if it's free.

So now we have to look for where the shell is hiding the P.

Which

shell is the not free under?

Because we know car dealers don't work for free, and we know car manufacturers don't work for free, and we know banks don't lend money for free.

So someone

somewhere, oh, it would be you,

is paying for it.

It's just like, okay, here's one for you.

How about

the zero down at rooms there they went?

Right?

That's a different name.

90 days, same as cash.

No, it's not.

84% of those contracts do not pay off during the 90 days.

They convert to rip-off storefront finance company 38% interest payments after 90 days, 84%

of the time.

And in your arrogance, you think you're in the 16%.

So did the other 84.

There is no free.

None.

Nada.

You don't get free.

No such thing.

And these dealerships, Dave, they've really turned into that you get a car, but they're really a financing machine.

That's what these dealerships have turned into with just a car as a transaction.

And so you've got to really watch out for these deals because they'll offer it to you.

You'll get in.

They say, oh, you don't qualify, but hey, we can still get you in a Hyundai Sonata today.

And so that you just get starry-eyed and sign the paperwork because you want to get out of there.

So if you get, if you ever sit down with, and I have many, many times, and I've even got family in the business, sit down with a Chevy dealer, with a Ford dealer, Hyundai dealer, Honda dealer, okay, Lexis dealer.

Here's what they're going to tell you.

The margins on a new car that they make are horrible.

They make almost no money on the sale of new cars.

They don't.

They make a lot more money if you will lease it

with Ford Motor Credit and they take the lease and they sell it back to Ford Motor Credit.

On average, they make $1,700 or so on a new car sale.

On average, they make $5,000 or $6,000 on the sale of the paper that you sign called a lease when they sell it back.

They don't really care about the margin on the car.

They care about two things.

Did you finance it and can they sell that paper for a profit?

Because they'll make more on the sale of that paper than they will on the sale of the car.

And two, can they get you to come back to the shop?

Because the new car shop is the second highest profit margin on the lot.

They make so stinking much money per square foot in the shop, profit, that it is unbelievable.

The only square footage on the car lot that makes more is that little office with that guy back there with the little Poindexter thing on his head, and he's called the finance manager.

And that little office makes all the money.

Is that where they go and they say, I got to talk to the manager?

And they come back an hour later.

And you know what?

They don't come back and say, I got you a better price.

They came back and say, I got you a better payment.

Yep.

Because rich people ask how much.

Broke people ask how much down and how much a month.

So you want to be rich people?

Ask how much.

Pay freaking cash.

If you're a millionaire, you can buy a new car.

You can afford to take the hit.

Go get your wife a car.

Pay cash.

And see how much trouble it is to get them to sell you a car when you're not financing it.

You have to beg them to sell you a car.

They don't want to sell you a car.

I got it.

So I bought my wife's car in cash and the finance office called me after the fact, said, hey, you're about to to make a huge mistake.

You should be financing this car.

I just wanted to be like, hey, I don't know how to explain this to you.

Just Google me.

I don't know.

I don't have time to fight you on this, but I'm not going to finance this vehicle today.

Please Google George

Camel with a K and see what happens.

I write a book just to help people avoid people like you.

You don't want to deal with me today.

But they're exhausting.

That's the number one thing they're trying to do, is get you into a payment and get you to finance.

This is how it works, boys and girls.

And 0% is how they lure you into the van with the candy.

That's what they're doing here.

Poor Jim.

Brutal metaphor.

At 60%, getting lured into the dealership.

Come on in, son.

We got 0% in the van.

Come on.

Yeah.

No, thank you.

No, stranger danger.

The guy that I had on the phone last week, and he's like, yeah,

I had a vanishing premium life insurance policy.

Wow.

What does that mean?

It means it was free.

It vanished.

Where did it go?

It means the agent had a top hat and a rabbit.

That's amazing.

A financial magician.

So for 10 years, he paid triple what he would have had to pay normally.

So that it vanished.

So it was a prepaid, overpaid, whole-life policy for 10 years.

And then they did him the favor after that of not collecting any more premiums.

What a kind gesture.

They are just, it's vanished.

If you paid it all up front, after that, there were no payments.

It vanished.

Oh, my goodness.

Kind of like the interest rate on my home.

It vanished.

I don't have one.

Oh.

Because I didn't borrow money.

That's the way to do it right there.

Let me help you with your refinance technique.

Don't.

Just pay it off.

If you buy a car in cash, you make it vanish on day one.

That's the way to do it.

You want to be a magician?

Best trick in the book.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

Henry Ford hated debt.

That's the irony of this.

J.C.

Penney, it was nicknamed James Cash Penny.

He hated debt.

And they're one of the biggest credit card issuers.

Isn't that the irony of this?

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James is in New York City.

Hi, James.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you very much.

And how are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve.

What's up in your world?

Better.

Well,

I've been better, but I'm doing fine.

I just just have a question for you guys.

So I've been out of college for many years.

I've paid off about $15,000, which was the entire loan that I was aware of.

And recently,

my parents just informed me that they had taken out a loan to assist me going to college for about $13,000.

And they are now asking for

me to be responsible of it.

So it's a parent plus loan?

Correct.

In their name.

Okay.

When they took it out, was there any discussion back in the day when you were in college?

No, I literally I didn't know it existed.

Um you know, I I thought uh it's'cause uh they were very honest with me uh you know about college.

You know, I I got um FAFSA assistants.

I got uh a lot of grants.

I only went to a four-year school for about uh two years.

I went to a um

county college the first two years.

So

I really thought that that was sort of it.

I didn't really realize that they had

taken out a loan.

So they took out a loan and didn't tell you anything about it at all.

And yet they want you to be responsible for it.

Yeah, you know, they're asking for

responsibility or at least help or assistance with it.

How many years ago was this?

I graduated about nine years ago.

So for a decade, they've been making just minimum payments on it?

Well, there's so on top of the $13,000, there's $4,000 accrued in interest.

So it's totaling out to around $17,000.

So they took out a loan and they didn't pay on it for a decade.

Well, there was...

a good portion of time with COVID forgiveness, I believe, that had to be a good thing.

Sure, but the balance has grown.

They did not pay on it for a decade.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

And now they don't like this payment in their life.

They're probably having their own financial problems and going, well, it's really his debt, so we should go after him for it.

Except it's not because it's in their name, not yours.

So legally, it's their responsibility.

Oh, there's no question about the legal part.

You're talking, is this moral, ethically?

What should I do as the son?

Yeah, I think that's definitely more what I'm coming from.

My wife and I,

have a salesman.

What do you guys make up?

We make roughly about $305 a year.

Okay.

And you have a lot of money stacked up somewhere?

No, we don't have.

I mean, we have an emergency fund.

We have $30,000 in an emergency fund.

The only debts we have are a car payment that we're going to have paid off next April.

Can I ask a stupid question, James?

Why is a couple making $305,000 having trouble paying for a car in cash, let alone paying off the loan?

We

could have paid it in cash, but we didn't want to dip into our emergency fund.

Where is the $300,000 going?

Because in my head, you can clean this debt up and savor the relationship with your parents, or you can let it

crush the relationship because people are petty.

Yeah, that's sort of where that's, so that's what I'm getting to.

Okay, what George is saying is you suck at handling 305,000.

We can't figure out what you're doing with it.

Yeah, this is a sidebar, but it's connected to the first problem because you could clean this up in two months and pay them and say, hey, listen, this really isn't mine legally to pay, but I love you guys.

I appreciate what you've done for me.

This didn't go down how we thought it would.

Here's your money.

Pay it off.

Even better yet, apply it directly to the loan.

We have received

recent promotions within the last year with our family.

Okay.

So here's what I'm here's what I want to do.

I've been five the entire time.

Here's what I would do.

Okay.

I would commit to getting control of my money so that my home does not look like your father's home.

You want to work this hard and make this kind of money and you want to have something to show for it.

That includes paying off your car immediately.

And I probably, given the disparity in income, the fact that you guys make this much money, I'm probably going to reach over there and just pay that other loan off.

But I do think it is completely fair for you to not do that as well, if you choose not to,

because it's not fair that you come up to someone a decade later, tell them something that they didn't even know existed, that they did not agree to, and ask them to pay something from a decade earlier.

That's ridiculous.

If I had done that, I would have too much honor and pride to tell my kid they had to pay it.

I would have gone and delivered pizzas to pay it rather than ask you to pay it.

This is not morally right what your parents are asking you to do.

It's maddening and it's frustrating.

The only good news is it's a tiny amount of money.

Sure.

That's the only good news in the story.

If it was $130,000, I'm probably just telling them, sorry, guys, you signed up for this crap and you didn't tell anybody.

If you had promised them when you were 19 years old and going to school, yeah, mom, y'all take out this loan.

When I get out, I'll pay it back.

It's in their name.

You're not legally responsible, but you handshaked.

You'd be morally responsible.

I'd be telling you to write a check and shut up.

You're whining.

But they didn't tell you a stinking thing about it.

And that is morally wrong.

They should not have done that.

You have a right to be angry about that.

And so does your wife, because she's getting drug into this too.

And then on top of that, You guys make so stinking much money now, maybe there are recent raises, but I really want y'all to get control of your money so that it's not an issue either way.

So if I'm you, I'm paying this loan off.

And in one, just write a check today just to get rid of it.

And if you want to have a little sit down with your dad and go, dad, this is not cool.

And if you come at me again with another one of these, I'm going to give you a big fat nope.

And you can chew on my big fat nope because I'm not going to do it.

Nope.

This is wrong.

You shouldn't have surprised me.

You shouldn't have done this afterwards.

It's wrong.

But I'm going to pay it because I can.

And I'm going to get rid of it.

I'm with you, you, George, on that, because it's just such a stinking small amount of money.

They make that much in a month.

So it's not a big part of their life.

And then I'm going to pay off the car, and then I'm going to rebuild my emergency fund and no more borrowing money.

Okay?

Period.

Period.

Get away from this.

None of this discussion has brought you a blessing.

Nothing in this was like, oh, this was so wonderful.

No, none of this is wonderful.

And these parent-plus loans, Dave, it's like cancer on relationships.

They're horrible.

They're absolutely horrible.

That's just, they're they're just, and we see this,

we get this call once a month, maybe?

Yeah.

Or the parents didn't even tell the kid.

And what's happening is the kid can't qualify, which is pretty wild because student loan lenders, they'll just give anybody loans.

So they go, hey, parent, you're going to take it on at a higher interest rate than a normal loan for the pleasure of your kid going to college.

Yeah.

And then they struggle to pay it off a decade later.

This is the story we hear time and time again.

They haven't paid anything on it in a decade.

There's no struggle.

They haven't done anything.

They just don't know.

It's by the wayside.

We'll let him worry about that a decade later.

They just sat on it and then they looked up and went, oh, somebody needs to pay this.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

So moms and dads, this is the problem when everyone goes, student loans don't have a, oh, the student loan is the ultimate emotionally kicking the can down the road.

I don't have to worry about it.

I'll worry about tomorrow.

I'll worry about tomorrow.

I'll worry about tomorrow.

They'll get out.

They'll get a degree.

They'll get a big job.

They'll be making a lot of money.

We'll worry about it tomorrow.

We'll worry about it tomorrow.

We'll worry about it tomorrow.

It doesn't matter.

All education is worth it.

We'll worry about it tomorrow.

All these lies you people tell yourself and your kids over and over and over so they go get a degree that's absolutely freaking worthless and then they got dead around it.

And worse than that, some of you didn't even bother to tell anybody.

Ugh, it's unbelievable.

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Justin's in Spokane, Washington.

Hi Justin, how are you?

Hey gentlemen, how are you all doing today?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

Well, Well, I can't complain too much, even though I'm going to complain a little bit here.

Ultimately,

I believe I was misled and taken advantage of by a financial advising group.

I'm only out 15 to 20K because of their quote-unquote advice.

I can go into as little or as much details as you like, but I was actually listening to your show about how terrible whole life insurance policies are, and it made me think about the one that my financial advisors got me in.

It ended up being terrible, but anyways, target audience is military.

I'm in the military, and um,

you know, I think they're taking advantage of military individuals.

But big two questions are: am I slightly overreacting, and how would you help,

you know, or pursue helping

I am.

Good.

Thank you for your service.

Take it to Jag.

So I did

do that,

and

ultimately they said, you know,

yeah, they broke fiduciary responsibility,

but it's not worth enough to take it to court or anything like that.

You said that to a lot of other people, too, right?

What's that?

They've done this to a lot of other people.

Well, so here's the

thing.

I don't necessarily think people are realizing that they're being taken advantage of because

i you know when i first got with them i was i was young

i mean i guess i still am young but

uh

you know financial advisors are supposed to provide you with the best course of action okay these are not these are not financial advisors these are insurance agents

Ultimately, sure.

Yeah.

Not ultimately.

That's really all they are.

They just tell tell people they're financial advisors.

But really all they are.

They have a license to sell insurance products.

All they sell is life insurance products.

They're not licensed to sell anything else.

So the way they get around it is they can get you investing, quote unquote, through the insurance policy.

But

you got a bad whole life policy and got ripped off with a bunch of fees.

And when you cashed it out, you got nothing.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, and I'm still struggling to cash it out because, you know, it's a terrible thing.

It's made me feel like I've gotten behind,

you know, setting myself up for retirement in the long run.

Well, you have by 15 grand, but it's not the end of the world.

You're okay.

A lot of people have done a lot dumber things than you've done, and they've recovered and become multi-millionaires.

So I'm not worried about you there.

It's not a devastating

blow that cannot be recovered from.

It's a mere aggravation, and it pisses you off because you got lied to.

And that part's fair.

But it's not, it's not,

don't take it to the ultimate drama and go, oh, this is a, this is a death blow.

It's not.

It's not at all.

It's a, it's a, it's a deep scratch.

That's it.

And as far as the actual math goes, that's what it is.

Emotionally, yeah, yeah, you'll be pissed at them probably the rest of your life.

I kind of am.

So, um,

you know, I'll go with that.

Which company was it?

Uh, it was First Command Financial.

Yeah.

Advising.

Yeah.

Okay.

The thing I would do,

because

we were,

we were teaching Financial Peace University for a long time in the military.

And so we got to know the guys in the JAG and the guys in the

chaplaincy as well.

We worked with both of them a lot.

And JAG approves or denies or has influences the approval or denial of anyone that sells financial products to active duty.

actively on the base, okay?

I mean, anybody can mail anybody, anything.

I'm not saying that.

But these guys are,

they've set up shop there as if they're endorsed by the military, and they're really not.

But the military has just allowed them to be there.

They have permission to be there.

And I think if you can raise enough cane with JAG,

you can do some damage for their permission to be there, and at least you get some satisfaction with that.

That's a great start.

Yeah, because somebody, I mean, there have been companies, other companies that were there back in the day when we started this stuff 20, 30 years ago that were selling crappy products on the bases, and they've been thrown off.

They've been thrown out.

And a lot of it started with complaints to JAG.

So

even if you don't do a lawsuit, I'm going to ask what the formal complaint process is for them to be removed from the base.

Because they come in there with a military-sounding name.

And they have a presence there where other companies don't.

Other companies aren't there.

And, you know, mutual fund companies aren't on the base.

They won't let them on there.

And they would actually be a much better product, but they won't even let them on.

And so instead, we've got this company that comes in with a little bit of camo on their dad gum artwork.

And it looks like somehow they're approved or something, or they've been endorsed by.

It's a tacit endorsement.

And

can you tell I'm really not a fan?

And a quick Google search.

I mean, every thread and every forum just says run away, run away, run away, run away.

Yeah.

If you pick it up, yeah.

Anything on Reddit, anything about First Command is get away from them.

And so I'm not telling you anything you didn't know.

But yeah, I think I'm going to

at least let Jag

light them up, you know,

just for the fun of it.

But I think you probably just lost your money.

I think you just got sold a bad product.

High fees, high commissions.

It takes a decade before that's worth anything.

And so getting out like you did, it costs you.

And they like it that way.

What happens is

the deal is it didn't cost you as much as if you had stayed in.

Exactly.

The good news is it's in your rearview mirror.

And from this point forward, you can be smart with your investing.

You can understand what you're putting your money into, where it's going, and not get screwed over anymore.

But I doubt you have a case against them legally.

I think Jake probably gave you good advice on that.

But I would just go ahead and light them up and let them know.

If you guys don't refund this,

I'm just going to become like your worst.

I'm going to become like an activist.

I'm a problem for you.

I'm going to make a hobby out of you people.

And just go ahead and mess with them multiple ways and make sure you cost them at least as much as they cost you

before you're through with them.

That's how I would go at it if I were in your shoes.

But I don't think you've got a legal case.

And there's no, if a mutual fund broker misbehaves, you can go to the Securities and Exchange Commission if they violate fiduciary.

But these guys are not regulated by the SEC because they're not licensed to sell investments.

They're only licensed to sell insurance.

That should be your first and final red flag.

And insurance licensing is a state-level license.

So if you're going to sell life insurance or whole life crap in Tennessee, you have to get a Tennessee life insurance license.

Then you have to go get another one in another state unless they have reciprocal with that other state.

But that's not the way it works if you're going to get a...

So let me tell you, I've taken all these tests just to give you guys a, bring it all the way full circle, okay?

So when I took the life insurance exam, which I later dropped my license because I talk so much about this that I don't want to be regulated.

I want to just tell people like it is.

Okay.

So I don't have a life insurance license now.

But when I took the life insurance license in the state of Tennessee, it took me 28 minutes to take the test.

And I studied for it for about three or four hours.

Okay.

When I took the securities exam to sell securities,

I went to two weekend-long courses, studied for about 40 hours, and it took me five hours to take the test.

It's like taking a CPA.

Okay?

The other one's like doing a bad book report in your senior in high school.

That's the difference between a life insurance exam and a securities exam.

It's dramatically different.

Okay, if you're going to get a Series 6, Series 7, Series 63 to be able to sell mutual funds, you're taking something akin to a CPA exam or sitting for the bar.

You've got to get your crap together.

You've got to take some classes on how to take the test.

You've got to study, study, study.

They're going to anticipate the questions.

You've really got to get ready.

Life insurance, for that matter, real estate license, a freaking joke in comparison.

So don't get the two confused.

When they say they're an investment advisor and they don't sell anything but life insurance products, they're lying.

They're a life insurance agent.

And they're almost always a cash value life insurance agent in that case.

Because if they sell term life, they'll they'll just say, oh, I'll sell term life.

They don't think anything about it.

They don't have to go, oh, I'm a financial advisor, which is a load of horse manure.

The lesson learned: never mix your insurance and investing.

Hate to be your first.

First red flag, run away if they're trying to mix the two together.

You know, the first command to first command is run.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth,

do work

that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the George Camill Show, one of our hits on the YouTube Ramsey Network.

Be sure and check it all out.

He's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Tiffany is in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Tiffany.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm great.

An honor to speak to you.

You too.

How can we help?

Thank you.

I just have a pretty simple question, and I feel like it should be a simple answer, but it's got me baffled.

So I am working on baby step number two.

The bottom of my pile is my student loan, because that's the biggest.

But I have just realized that I am on the extended repayment plan, which means that my monthly payment is not even covering the interest.

So each month my

balance goes up.

Oh, due.

Yes.

And so do I want to continue that while I work on my other debts or do I need to raise that up so it doesn't continue to increase?

Doesn't matter.

You're going to get out of debt exactly the same time, regardless of which you do.

I personally would let it ride the way it is.

How much total debt have you got, not counting your house?

About $127,000.

Okay.

How much of that's student loans?

$94,000 between mine and my husband's.

And your household income is what?

About $110,000, $120,000.

Okay, so clearing $33,000 gets you to the student loans, right?

Yes.

What's the $33,000 that's not student loans?

I have $6,000 in a vehicle and then I have $26,000 in a second mortgage.

Okay.

The second mortgage was our well went dry and we had to hook on to city water.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

So we just have those two and then our student loans.

Yeah.

So how quick do you think you get through the second mortgage and

get to the student loans?

How quick do you think you get through 33 making one?

Would you say you make 120?

Yeah.

Six months?

I don't know, maybe.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So in six months, this problem goes away.

Okay.

So let's pretend for a second.

Okay.

Let's pretend

50 bucks a month is not being covered.

That's probably more than that.

It's $100 a month is not being covered by your student loan payment, and you keep the payment where it is, so your balance goes up by $600

while you knock out the other $33,000 before you get around to the student loan, okay?

Or

you raise the payment by $600,

and it slows down you getting the $33,000 done by $600.

So that's that's what I mean by it's a wash when you get to the end of the story you will have paid off all of these debts in exactly the same speed regardless of whether you speed up the student loan now to feel better about it and slow down the 33

or now we're going to speed up the 33 and let the student loan go backward a little bit by that same amount because whatever you're not putting on the student loan you're putting on the 33 you follow me

yes so it washes out in the end

okay

It's just frustrating to see that balance go up while you're underwater already.

How long has this debt been hanging around you guys?

We both graduated

six years ago.

Good.

So we've been paying on it for, I think, three years because of the COVID thing.

We didn't pay on it for those three years.

And you got roped into this extended repayment thing thinking it was going to be a blessing?

Yes.

I guess on mine, yes.

My husband's, we've been paying the

full amount, but

mine, we did it.

And I think we did it that way, thinking that because I was going to go into public service, it would be forgiven.

And now I've done all the research, and it's not.

We just need to pay it.

Good.

I like your plan.

Good self-awareness.

Yeah, very good.

I agree with your research.

How much of this 120 or how much of the 90 is you, and how much is your husband's?

His is 43 and mine's 51.

Okay, not much difference.

Are they any of them broken up into smaller loans or is it two simple loans?

Yeah, they're both, I think we both have 12 smaller loans that make up that total.

So six, or six each or 12 each?

12 each.

Wow.

Okay.

All right.

So that's going to be fun.

That's going to really make the snowball sing because you're going to get to have this emotional feedback, psychological feedback of knocking out one, knocking out one, knocking out one, knocking out one.

I mean, crap, if we break it down that way, it's smaller than no longer is your

second mortgage is now your largest debt.

Right.

I think I put it at the back.

Okay, that was my other question then.

Yeah, I treat those little loans like individual loans because they are.

Okay.

And then knock one out and then knock another one out, and then knock another one out, and that that solves the problem even faster because then we've only got the one little debt to get rid of

before we get into the student loan debts.

What's your smallest student loan debt of the 24?

Uh, 600.

Oh, God.

See, that's that's like gone to the bottom.

I mean, that's your first one.

Just get it paid off.

Yeah,

reset your debt snowball, treating each of these 24 loans as individual loans.

Okay.

How are you guys keeping track of all this right now?

With paper and pencil.

Gross.

How about we get you every dollar and get you hooked up there?

It'll list out your debts, smallest to largest, for you, help you keep track of it, and help you take control of all that money you have coming in from that 120, help you clean this up faster.

So hang on the line.

We'll gift that to you so that you and your husband can have full accountability, transparency in your pocket wherever you go.

Yeah, the Every Dollar financial app is going to walk you through.

It'll put you on a budget and help you walk the steps exactly like we're talking about here, like George is saying.

So we'll give that to you as our gift.

Hang on.

Wow.

Very cool.

That's overwhelming.

Just looking at a piece of paper going, here's 48 debts.

I'm looking at, that's a lot.

You know what, though?

She's going to be okay.

You know how I know?

She knew her numbers.

She knew exactly where she was.

Well, I think it was somewhere in the 40 or 50.

No, she knew.

She got exactly down to the penny.

You know, the secret weapon is Tiffany.

That's the secret weapon in this conversation.

She's her own secret weapon.

So

she's got it on paper and pencil, but but she's got it down more than 99% of America has it down.

She's got it dialed in.

She's going to be okay because she's in attack mode.

She's already looked in the financial mirror and knows exactly what is to be expected.

And this is the same person who looked at all the bullcrap on the internet about debt forgiveness on student loans and was able to read bullcrap.

She could see it right there between the lines.

It says bullcrap when you look at it.

And she saw it right there.

She's that self-aware.

She's that dialed in.

She didn't call me up and go, I'm waiting on Biden.

Oh, wait, Biden's gone.

Yeah.

Yeah, the new administration, they're not playing nice with these debts.

They're like, hey, everyone's going to pay the stuff they signed up for.

You just told me, I didn't know this.

Big Beautiful bill did away with Parent Plus loans.

They're getting rid of the federal Parent Plus, all the grad loans that they were handing out.

Thank you.

Not going to be any longer.

That's awesome.

The government getting out of the lending game.

That's stepping the

little bit out of the lending.

That's barely.

I'm still making student loans, but good, at least get rid of Parent Plus.

Because it's kind of like Parent Minus, like the parents are no longer in your life because they're pissed.

Ugh.

Let's be real.

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Julie is in Atlanta.

Hi, Julie.

How are you?

Hey, I'm good.

Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.

Sure.

What's up?

So I am on baby step two.

My husband and I started off with about $108,000 in credit card debt.

We've been paying this down since I returned to to work

kind of the middle of 2022.

We didn't start making big payments towards the balance until I had about a year working, but we were planning for it.

So, so far, we've paid off just over $32,000 towards this debt.

In three years, I,

yes, yes, we have.

What do you mind?

So, I make about $85,000 a year before tax.

My husband makes about $140,000.

Okay, so you have a $220,000 household income, and you only managed to pay off $10,000 worth of debt a year.

Well,

it's been more two years that we've been paying it off.

You told me middle of 23.

This is the middle of 25.

Or you said middle of 22.

I'm sorry.

This is middle of 25.

Yeah, so it's been

about two years that we've been really

so $15,000 out of $220,000.

Still lame.

Do you guys have other debts?

Thanks for the reminder.

Okay.

So our household expenses are rated about $6,000 a month.

And with our take-home pay, we're rated about $10,000.

We're investing for a retirement, and we have that.

Well, there's one problem.

Okay, so here's what's happening.

Here's what's happening.

You're borrowing on credit cards to invest in retirement.

Okay.

So we need to stop the retirement temporarily.

We need to get very, very,

very intense about cleaning this debt up in one year.

See, and I thought I was doing pretty good

paying off about $32,000.

I'm sorry.

I felt pretty proud about that.

I don't want you to be, though.

I want to tell you the truth, and I want to love you enough to cause you to win.

And you're going to be forever getting out of debt.

You're talking over 10 years.

Yeah, that's so I want you to pay off $100,000 in a year.

You make $220,000, stop all retirement temporarily, stop the vacation, stop the eating out, stop the everything,

and get yourself out of debt.

These companies own your soul.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not really sure how much more that could help us.

You know, I've crunched the numbers and I've looked looked at this for a long time.

Well, you got to figure it out then.

I hope it works for you.

Thanks for calling.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Bobby's in Fresno.

Hey, Bobby, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you very much, Dave.

How can I help?

Appreciate it.

Been listening to you all the years, and I just wanted to reach out to you.

Me and my wife recently paid off our house about three years ago, and we've been trying to save some money.

And we got $106,000, or we got about $175,000 saved up.

Cool.

And we're getting ready to purchase another house.

And so I was debating, because I was going to use it for a rental, if I should just go ahead and put the whole $175,000 down on it.

The home is about $292,000.

So it'd be, you know, over 50% down.

But

what I was concerned about is whether I should be investing that much into the one home or if I should leverage myself, keep.

maybe 50% of that and put maybe $75,000 on one home and $75,000 on a second home.

And when you start talking about rental property, really when you talk about anything, but when you talk about rental property, people particularly struggle with one issue.

Here's the thing you have to remember: debt

equals risk.

More debt equals more risk.

More debt equals lower cash flow,

less cash position, and more risk.

So if you buy one house with 50% down,

you have less risk than if you take out eight times more debt and spread this over four houses.

Because none of them are going to cash flow then.

This one's barely going to cash flow at 50% down.

I love real estate.

I know you're full of crap.

You've never bought a rental house.

I own a bunch of them.

Okay?

I understand them.

So don't flinch here.

The deal is that they don't cash flow.

All of mine are paid for.

And some of them with repairs and vacancies don't hardly make money.

So when you don't get a renter for four months, or one doesn't pay for three months, or you put in a heat and air system, it's $14,000, or you have to put on a roof because it's leaking, and you got to pay property taxes and insurance, even if it's paid for,

you don't get a ton of cash flow unless you manage the property extremely well and you buy it cheap.

So

this idea that the payment versus the rent is the cash flow is a naive formula and an incomplete formula.

When you run an actual operating statement on an investment property, you have all these other expenses including

loss due to non-payment and vacancy and legal costs while you evict the people that didn't pay and all the repairs and all the stuff you didn't think of when you had this idea that you saw on the internet, I want to buy a rental house.

So, all that to say, I definitely wouldn't buy more than one, and you're not even going to like this.

I wouldn't even buy one right now until you have the money.

I'd pay cash for it, or I wouldn't do it.

So, I'd save up some more.

You've done a really good job saving money, but you know,

the grass is not always greener over the septic tank, man.

It's just not.

So, I'm going to tell you, I own a bunch of rental property, several hundred million dollars worth.

Most of it today is commercial.

I think we only own about 15 or 20 houses now.

We've gotten rid of most of the houses, but

we make good money on them, but they're pain the butt to deal with.

And I love real estate.

As I said, I've got several hundred million dollars in real estate.

I love it.

I think it's a great investment, but it is

an incomplete picture when you don't consider all the expenses.

Yeah.

Because you've got the hassle factor, regardless if it's in cash or with debt, but then you have the risk factor added to it when it's leveraged.

Yeah.

Quote unquote.

I mean, when your gross cash flow, if it's rented, is a few hundred dollars,

you're losing money every year, yeah, in that case.

And so, uh, and that's where you're going to put yourself if you leverage into a bunch of properties.

And that's how people go broke in real estate.

And then they go, well, you know, real estate's not as good.

Yes, real estate's an excellent investment, but it is an investment that requires a cash position in order to lower the risk of it.

And when you lower the risk, your returns go way up.

But that is required that you do this.

So

our suggestion around here, Bobby, is we pay cash for investments, real estate, businesses, whatever it is you're going to buy, I pay cash for it, or I don't buy it.

And that slows down the speed at which you build your portfolio, but it keeps you from having to do it over from going broke.

And when you go do all this leverage stuff, I'm going to go buy six houses with the same money I could have bought one with,

and you've lowered your cash flows dramatically, increased your risk dramatically.

And

one little California upheaval where you are, and you got a serious problem on your hands in.

So I probably didn't talk you out of it because I think you've kind of been, you got TikTok real estate fever.

We called in to ask, can I put less down?

And you said, you got to put more down.

But the good news is you saved up 175 grand.

I think that's amazing.

So here's the filter to look it through.

I need to save up 120 grand more.

I'm 120 grand short of goal.

Yeah.

That's a solvable problem.

But he's already picked out a house and he's already got the fever.

So I doubt I'm talking him out of the tree.

He's already seeing real estate mogul in his future.

I'm talking to the rest of the people listening right now.

Oh, man.

Maybe get one of them out of the tree.

But you guys get up in the tree.

You can't get them out.

But

I hope, Bobby, you'll wait.

If I could convince you that I love you and I want you to win and I want you to own real estate, and I think you did really good getting to 175, and I could convince you that if you'll go slower, you'll have have a much greater rate of return over the long haul.

That's what the data tells us.

And that's what my life story tells us as well.

For those of you that don't know, I started from nothing.

I bought my first piece of real estate when I was 21 years old.

I borrowed as much as I could borrow on all of it up to my eyeballs because I was the leverage king.

You think you know something about leverage?

I had you dialed in.

I could borrow money from people that borrowed money.

It was unbelievable.

I had $4 million worth of real estate by the time I was 26 with a $3 million

debt, a million dollar net worth, making $200,000 a year in 1984.

And that portfolio bankrupted me.

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Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Tyrone in Ohio.

My grandfather supported a family of six from the 1950s to the 70s.

He bought a new house, had a new car, and lived comfortably, all while working as a grocery store clerk.

That same lifestyle today would be considered impossible on that income.

This isn't just about being frugal or avoiding debt.

He wasn't some minimalist wizard.

Is it that businesses today aren't sharing profits with workers?

Are costs just that much higher?

Or is there something deeper going on in the economy that shifted the rules?

I'd love to hear your opinion on this topic.

I wasn't around in the 70s, Dave, so I'll let you speak to this one.

Your age and wisdom will speak volumes.

That's just me questioning.

I'm not supposed to answer after that introduction.

I didn't say you were a dinosaur.

I was just saying I wasn't around.

I can't speak to what things were like back then.

Well,

so Tyrone, number one, regardless of what happened to your grandfather,

you live today.

You are not the victim of an evil system.

There are plenty of people in America prospering today.

You can start and run a business or an idea faster and more profitably today than at any time in human history if you live in the United States of America.

When your grandfather was a grocery store clerk, if you wanted groceries, you generally went to the backyard and picked them.

You didn't go to the grocery store.

Half the stuff that you order on freaking DoorDash

at a 528% markup was grown in your grandfather's backyard.

He didn't even buy it at a store.

He bought seeds and pumped water out of the cistern

and poured it onto the tomato plant.

He never bought a tomato in his life.

Okay, the second thing is he didn't buy eggs.

There were these things called chickens in the backyard, and they weren't city chickens.

They were country chickens.

And they took care of the family.

And he probably didn't buy milk.

If he didn't have his own cow, somebody down the road did, and he went down there and picked up a gallon of milk from them every so often.

And it probably wasn't pasteurized, and they probably got sick occasionally.

It's a completely different world.

Oh, 1950s, I'm not sure what percentage of Americans had indoor plumbing, but it wasn't huge.

And the Wi-Fi was terrible.

My grandparents, when I went to visit them,

One set had indoor plumbing, one set did not when I was a kid in the 1960s.

Okay, even up into the 70s with one set.

So

it's a little different world that you're comparing to.

So I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the underlying victim BS passive aggressive anarchy that your philosophy, pot-smoking philosophy professor at college told you that things are unfair.

Let me tell you where the fair is.

It's where the tilted whirl is and the cotton candy.

That's where fair is.

You live in today's world, so you get to go make your way in today's world.

By the way, your grandfather drove a car that did not have air conditioning, did not have disc brakes, sure as crap, didn't have an airbag unless his mother-in-law was sitting next to him.

Okay,

and so there was no nothing.

Gas was 12 cents a gallon, okay?

And so the cars didn't cost anything because they were a piece of crap.

I have this fabulous 1960 rebuilt frame-up Corvette.

I also have a new one.

The new one's a lot better.

It's not as cute.

It doesn't get as many winks from old ladies at a stoplight, but it is a far superior vehicle with a lot more expensive technology on it and costs a lot more than a 1960 Corvette.

And by the way, a Corvette was an expensive car in 1960.

Your grandpa wasn't driving one if he's a store clerk.

He was driving a Chevy.

Maybe.

and a used one.

And the house he lived in, son,

didn't have air conditioning, probably didn't have indoor plumbing, had probably recently gotten electricity, and was on average 980 square feet.

The house I grew up in, I was born in 1960 until we left at 16 years old, was a thousand square foot with an unfinished basement.

So you're not comparing apples to apples to get your little anarchy equation going.

There must be some systemic evil system where the corporations are keeping all the money and the little men can't get ahead.

Bull crap in your email.

It's just absolute.

The problem with it, man, for me making fun of you, the problem is, is that you believe this stuff and so you sit on your hands instead of going and be somebody.

Don't sit on your hands and blame other people that you're a victim.

You ain't a freaking victim, dude.

Your quality of life, your standard of living is a hundred times your grandfather's.

And that's if you're a poor person.

So what you do is you get up off your butt and you quit ordering DoorDash for everything.

If you want to grow your own vegetables and move out the country and dig you a latrine, you can do that, dude.

You probably get you an outhouse kit on Amazon and get going.

I mean, you can do this stuff.

So, you know, homesteading or whatever you want to call this stuff, right?

And so you get after it, but that's not the, there's no big conspiracy.

You can go out there.

I meet young people in their 20s and 30s making more money than I ever dreamed I would make.

The number of callers around here that make the household income, two people make $200,000, is astronomical.

Almost every day, we talk to most of our.

We had a bunch on this show.

$200,000, $300,000, $100,000.

When I started this show, man, if I got anybody over $100,000 household income calling in here, I was shocked.

I thought I had rich people on the phone.

And now most of your household incomes are up over that.

So this comparison to, well, you baby boomers, you bought your house with a basket of strawberries.

Oh, bull crap.

You wouldn't live in that house.

You entitled snowflake.

Good God.

It just, you wouldn't even live there.

You'd be going, well, I think we need to renovate this.

I bought a fixer-upper.

No, honey, that's how we grew up.

You know what was in my living room until I was 13 years old from the time I was zero?

What's that?

Nothing.

No furniture.

No living room.

We were doing minimalism before it was was cold.

We were 14 years old.

We bought our first set of living room furniture.

Wow.

Okay.

And we weren't poor people.

We were middle class.

Man.

But the crazy part, they didn't even have remote work back then.

They didn't even have remotes.

All they had was work.

No, they had a remote.

Daddy said, get up and change the channel.

A human remote control.

He'd get your butt up and change the channel.

I want to see what Walter Cronkite says instead of David Brinkley.

That's how they kept the kids in shape back then.

When there was very few obese children.

The first.

I think we got a clicker when I was a channel changer and it clicked.

It would click.

It would do it by audio.

Oh, cool.

That's why they called it the clicker.

It was called four buttons.

That's why that's where clicker came from.

Wow.

We got that, I think I was 16 or 15 years old, 1975.

And it was click, click, and you could change the channels.

It had four buttons, up and down on volume, and right and left, up or down on channel.

And that was it.

But there wasn't but three channels, so there wasn't a whole lot, plus UHF, there wasn't a whole lot of jumping around to be just.

There was nothing to stream, no hobbies, no entertainment.

All this guy had was the grocery store.

And by the way, you know what we paid for our television channels?

Nothing.

There wasn't cable fees.

There weren't Netflix fees.

There wasn't fee, fee, fee, fee as many fees as a French poodle.

I mean, there was no fees.

You just turned it on and it magically appeared in your dadgum house.

You know, because you put this thing up on top called an antenna.

You know, I mean, it was a different world, son.

And so this idea that you guys can compare this and say there's an evil force at work to keep poor poor young people from succeeding is the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard when it's easier to make money today than it's ever been in the history of this country.

You just decide you want to do something, you start an app, go do it.

You want to set up a web store?

Shopify will set it up for free and get you going.

You're in business.

Shut up.

You can take used golf clubs and sell them on eBay and make a profit by the end of the day.

Never in the history of man can you do stuff like that like you can do right now.

This is the most wonderful possible time to be alive if you believe it is.

Grace is with us in Nashville.

Hi, Grace.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call today.

Sure.

What's up?

So we just moved here to the Nashville area about four months ago.

My husband is making $140

per year.

I'm making $39.

Yeah, thank you.

Very grateful.

$39

per hour for me.

We have two kids that are in full-time daycare.

Currently, per week, it's $600.

And I just moved everyone over to

my benefits, so insurance.

So I've got four on there.

And and it dropped my paycheck bi-weekly pretty significantly.

So I'm taking home 900 bi-weekly.

So my question for you, and hopefully this should help other working moms and parents out there, is

should I try to find supplemental income to cover the fact that I'm making less than what daycare costs per week?

Or should I

Well, you put all the family's insurance on your tab, right?

Correct, because I work in healthcare, so my insurance is

pretty good.

Okay.

So, I mean, if you are not working because you're not making net money, then the insurance must be on your husband's tab, right?

Correct, yes.

Okay.

So, what what does insurance cost?

For

four kids, or sorry, four individuals, two kids, two adults, um, dental, vision, and health.

With an HSA,

it's

$630.

Yeah.

Dental and vision aren't worth the money, usually.

Usually don't even break even on them.

Yeah.

Are you guys debt-free?

We currently have $6,000 on credit card due to unforeseen vet bills and some dental work that we had to have done.

And my husband's dental insurance wasn't the the best.

So that's another motivation to

have dental.

Total right now is

$6,205.

Okay.

And what do you do?

I'm a physical therapy assistant.

Okay.

So you're making, what, $40,000?

You said $40 an hour?

That's closer to $80.

$39 an hour.

Okay.

Yeah, $39 an hour.

Yeah.

So you're making $80,000 and you're coming home with $48,000.

Insurance is not causing that.

It's $600,000.

$600 is only $7,200 a year.

Are you investing as well out of this paycheck?

I am.

That's part of it.

How much are you investing?

What percentage?

They're matching.

I'm so sorry, I don't have that number in front of me.

That's okay.

There might be a few hundred bucks there, but it just still seems like something's off with this take-home pay.

But either way, you've got to look at the household income when you make this decision.

Your husband makes $140,000, even with the money you're making.

The daycare is a little bit hard.

You make $80,000, make $220 a year.

Yeah, so out of the, you know, you're bringing home probably $12K a month.

So paying $2,400 for daycare, yeah, it's not fun, but that's not tanking you.

Yeah, George is right.

When you put all the income together, we don't worry about the fact that you don't take home enough for daycare.

Unless there's something we need to figure out in in what you're purchasing out of your check that needs to stop.

That's a possibility.

But I mean, if you're having too much withheld to where you're causing a refund, we don't want to do that.

If you're buying insurance that's not needed, we don't want to do that.

Or insurance is not a good deal.

We don't want to do that.

The HSA is a good plan, usually.

But if you're making 80 grand,

an $800 daycare bill does not

make you not work.

Right.

Other stuff combined with it.

And if you pull it all and put it all on your ticket and your husband's money's all free and clear instead of lumping them all together and running it as a household, it makes it look like that you're broke, but you're not broke.

If you guys made 70 and your portion was 30, then I'd say, okay, maybe we should look at pausing daycare and you stay home at 2,400 bucks a month.

But I'm not seeing that.

This is not the solution to the problem.

I'm sorry.

It's 800 bucks a week.

You said 600 a week?

Daycare.

$600.

Okay, so $2,400 a month.

Oh, I did it at $600 a month.

I goofed.

My bad.

Okay.

So it's not $7,200.

It's way off.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

My bad.

Yeah.

But still.

That's okay.

And I think you.

Oh, sorry.

Go ahead.

That's okay.

Go ahead.

I think the biggest shock for me was just seeing that pretty big decrease from my paycheck, you know, once the whole family went on my insurance.

So maybe.

Yeah, but the thing is, that's not a net net.

If you quit and come home, you've still got that expense.

It's just over on your husband's.

And it might be more.

We don't know.

Right, right.

And we already were on his insurance when we first moved here before I got the job.

And his insurance,

I mean, in comparison and what it covers and the co-pays and everything, mine.

Okay, so here's the way we run the formula.

Do you come home mathematically?

There's other considerations than math.

Your desire to be at home,

you know,

special situations with kids, all these different things

are reasonable considerations.

But the math, the way we run the math is

pretend like we bought the health insurance

from your husband's company out of his check.

Then look at what his check is.

Right.

And if that's what we've got to live on, can we live on it in our budget?

Can we do a budget and pretend like I don't have a income?

Not counting insurance because the insurance has got to move over to his.

Sure.

And if we can live on what he takes home after buying the family insurance and you want to go home, absolutely.

But you've got to mathematically prove that out.

And it's a misnomer to have the insurance in the,

you know, act like it goes away when you quit because it doesn't.

It moves over to his.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So true.

And maybe too, like, you know,

you pick up the daycare as a gain.

You pick up whatever else is a gain.

You know, you pick up wear and tear on your car to go to work,

clothing to go to work.

If you do dry cleaning for for your clothing to go to work, any of that stuff that if you're any meals you're buying because you're tired from working and instead you're going to cook those at home from scratch, you pick up a lot of those kinds of things when you come home.

And those are all valid considerations to take out of the budget.

And then when we do all of that, can we live on his income?

Without extra car expense, extra clothing expense.

No daycare cost, can we live on his income, his take-home pay?

And you probably can, depending on where you're living in Nashville.

You probably can.

On 140, you ought to be able to.

But the only difference is you got to pull the insurance and move it over.

So the daycare, you're right, is just prohibitive.

It just takes the fun out of this.

That's $600 a week.

God, $2,400, that's $30,000 a year.

The good news is it's a small portion of their actual take-home pay.

Whereas for some people, daycare is half of their income.

For them, it's 10%.

Yeah.

So the numbers, LED, the ratios feel a whole lot better.

It might mean some sacrifices on the expense side right now, but it sounds like you guys will have it under control here soon.

Yeah.

But, you know, and if you can figure out a way to do it, mathematically practice living on his take-home pay a month or two.

That would mean all of your income plus insurance goes into the bank.

in savings or goes against that $6,000 in debt.

Either one.

Mathematically practice as if you weren't working and he had the insurance costs coming out of his.

Yeah.

Go make an $3 budget.

Do a fake one with this future of what this would look like to make yourselves actually put the facts on paper.

And the other thing to think about here is pausing and investing.

Can we get out of the debt quick?

Get the emergency fund?

I think that's going to give you some peace and you'll make the next move from a place of strength instead of feeling out of control.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So it's weird.

The math can talk to you and give you a certain assurance, and then some of the rest of it, you just kind of push through and you go, go okay that's going to work i can do that um because in most fam dual household incomes uh there is a certain amount of

uh pre-prepared meals or eating out that's due to both parents working and a fatigue factor yeah okay versus a one parent a mom for instance is at home cooking from scratch and that's her home economist is her job then we got to bring that back yeah they still teaching that home economics

I think it went out with shop.

This is why all the kids are doing DoorDash, Dave.

This is a major crisis.

Can't cut a board and can't bake a biscuit.

I'm just saying.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

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You guys jump in.

We'll talk about your life and your money.

Ava is in Charleston, South Carolina.

Hi, Ava.

How are you?

Hey, Mr.

Dave.

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Thanks for taking my call.

I guess to kind of, there's a couple of different parts to my question, but the main thing is where do we start getting out of debt and how can I get my husband on board to better manage his trading, day trading that he does while we are doing that?

Those feel like they're in conflict with each other.

Would you agree?

Absolutely.

Yes.

So how much has he lost day trading?

Well, a little bit of background.

We got married three years ago, And right before we got married, he decided that he wanted to refinance the house.

And he had just started dabbling in the trading stuff.

And I think he got excited about how much he was getting.

So he refinanced the house and got $200K back.

And we turned it into a 15-year mortgage at $4,000 a month.

And he put most I would say he put 90% of the money towards the day trading, and it's all gone now.

So he mortgaged the house in order to gamble?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

I just didn't realize, I guess, what was happening at the time.

Just like I said earlier.

Where my confusion is, is why

he's not on the phone saying, I pissed away 200K.

My wife's getting ready to kill me.

How can I straighten out my life?

Instead, his wife calls and says, how can we manage around his little day trading problem?

Absolutely.

I agree with you.

100%.

Where is he at with all this?

It's been difficult.

Is he thinking, well, I'll just day trade my way out of this one?

Yeah.

That's his game plan?

I

think so, yes.

And part of it is I don't really understand all the trading stuff.

And

I think you do.

I think you understand.

He turned 200,000 into zero.

Worst magic trick ever.

And it was kind of like when everything was going well and then it crashed.

No, honey.

It wasn't a crash.

What's the statistic on day trading, George?

97% lose money if they persist for more than, I believe it's 100 days or 300 days.

AKA, pretty much nobody's making money from this, and most are actually losing money.

97%.

Failure rate.

This is called don't do it.

Okay, so here's where we start.

You guys need to have a reset in your marriage, in your relationship, and in his head.

And I can't help you.

We can't help you.

No, there is no Ramsey technique for continuing to lose 200K regularly and turning that into a wealth plan.

We don't have the technique that's that good.

So, what you've got to do is, you guys are going to have to sit down tonight and go, honey,

you're doing cocaine and you're going to stop.

Are you going to do that?

I have done that.

But he didn't stop.

He didn't stop.

And

I can see that he's on it all day, every day.

I can see that.

And so I'm definitely not naive to think that

he's addicted to it, I think.

And I think he wants to try to fix whatever happened before because we had that blowout about what happened before.

But I'm just trying to figure out

97%

of the people who do what he is doing lose money.

Yeah.

That's all of the MAVA.

I'm sorry, honey.

Yeah.

There's only one way your family survives is if this man stops doing this.

And that's what I was wanting to hear because I'm all about him stopping it because we have to get out of debt.

How much debt are you guys in?

They have $200,000 on their house, and what else?

Extra $200,000 on their house.

Well, to throw in something even more, we're actually getting a new house.

We're putting our house that we have now on the market.

No, you're not.

You're broke.

Yeah.

Your husband doesn't have an internet.

That's what we're doing.

What do you mean?

That's what we're doing.

What do you mean?

So I just stopped working about six months ago.

I had my second baby, and I worked as a cardiac nurse.

And so, what do you guys use for food money?

How are you paying that?

He tells me that we just, right now we have less coming in than what's coming out, which I do understand that and I know that

that was easy to calculate my toddler could do that how are you how are you

you don't know how you're paying bills I don't and that's why that's part of the reason why I'm calling because I don't even know where to start because I can you log into the bank account okay where we start is you have a meeting tonight and it says honey

we're not buying a new house we're broke I'm scared.

What you're doing is terrifying me.

I have a new baby.

And we have got to have a different system where I understand what's going on with all the money, and you have stopped day trading.

If he does not do that, it's the same thing as him having a line of cocaine in the middle of the

coffee table in the living room.

You're letting a drunk drive the car right now.

It's time you take over.

He has an addiction.

It's going to bankrupt the family.

And you need to take over.

You guys have got to have some really radical changes.

I don't think you're scared enough.

I don't think you realize what's going on.

Because at the rate you're going,

I mean,

no, you cannot work a system because there's no system that works through a 97% failure rate.

There's just not one.

And I'm so sorry you're going through this with a new baby and everything else.

And I'm killing your dreams, but I didn't kill your dreams.

You just called up and I gave you a reality check.

So we love you guys.

We want you to win.

And

there is no possible way, there is no possible way that cocaine addicts and day traders end up

prosperous five years from the day they start.

Zero.

It doesn't exist.

It's a lie mathematically.

If I thought he could win, if I thought there was a 20% chance he could win, we can have a discussion.

But when you have a 97% failure rate,

then you just don't do it.

It's irresponsible to your wife and your kid.

You have to be like a grown-up and stuff.

And so, okay, I'm going to go like make money and pay bills and take care of my family.

And then we'll worry about how we can build some wealth.

But there's something broken in your house.

And you guys have really got to...

I'm so sorry, honey.

You've got a real relational mess on your hands.

And I'm scared that you're vaguely aware of it, but not as afraid as you should be.

And I don't want to create melodrama,

but, you know, you're going to call me up as a single mom in eight months because you're going to realize that, you know, he's going to come in and they're going to start taking stuff out of the driveway.

And they're going to start, the sheriff's department's going to start showing up at the door.

And your house is going to get foreclosed on, both of them, the new one and the old one,

that haven't been leveraged or that are leveraged.

And oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

I'm trying to,

if I could get him by the shirt collar and just say, son, wake up.

You're killing yourself and your family.

Stop it.

I would.

But.

He's got to care more about his family than his gambling addiction.

Yeah.

That's the only hope this relationship and this future has.

Amen.

I'm sorry.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money.

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Dominic is with us in Phoenix.

Hey, Dominic, what's up?

How's it going, sir?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So I'll be as brief as possible, but essentially, my mother has been taking advantage of me financially over the last couple years.

So trying to just figure out what the best steps are moving forward and how to set myself up for success.

I'm sorry, what does that mean?

That sounds horrible.

Your mother has been taking advantage of you.

How old are you?

I just turned 24 on Saturday.

Okay.

And what has your mother been doing to take advantage of you financially?

So she was part of a business scam,

essentially with her business.

They told her that she won a lawsuit.

The whole thing was a scam, ended up sending them tens of thousands of dollars.

And she came to me for help to make the payments on that, essentially.

gave her over ten thousand dollars cash as well as taking out multiple loans in my name, which I am now stuck with the payments on.

In addition to

co-signing the mortgage for the house, which she is now making several late payments on.

So, how old were you when all that happened?

It's been going on for several years now.

So, it essentially first started when I was 20 when we first moved out here.

Okay.

At what point did you realize this was not going to work and stop it?

Essentially, once at the beginning of this year, once I moved out on my own and I realized the significance of how far behind I was on all of this, it didn't really click to me when I was still living with her because I was just under her roof, you know, following her rules, not really thinking too much of it until I tried to get my own place and realized, again, how far I was behind.

And now seeing how my credit is completely ruined and these loan payments are just destroying me trying to take care of rent on my own.

So how much debt have you signed up for to help your mom?

So the house is,

I want to say, over $400,000.

Yeah, aside from the house,

you co-signed the house.

The other debts are just in your name, right?

Yes, correct.

So the loan payments are in my name only.

Those equal to about, I want to say, $4,000 as of right now.

Again, I've been making the on-time payment.

So $4,000 gets you out of this mess, not counting the co-signature on the house.

And then I also have a vehicle loan of about $8,000.

Who's got the vehicle?

You or her?

It's me.

Oh, so you have that?

Okay.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

So the abuse was $4,000 plus co-signing a mortgage.

Correct.

What do you mean?

I'm on track to make about $50,000 this year.

Good for you.

Okay.

All right.

So

here's the good news.

The math of the abuse is a one and a half to a two on a scale of one to ten.

The emotional damage that your mother did this to you is a 10 out of 10.

Correct.

It breaks your heart.

And it confuses you as a young man trying to get started.

The person who should be the most

taking care of you instead has been taking advantage of you.

Yes.

100%.

So real simple, just clean up $12,000 worth of debt, pay off your car,

pay off the loans as fast as you can.

The sooner you get them paid off, the sooner, because every time you write a check or submit a payment in the computer,

it rakes your fingernails across the chalkboard of your heart.

It hurts again.

And so I want that out of of your life.

I want the $4,000 loan paid off as soon as possible.

If you work, do you have any money saved?

No, honestly, at this point, it's so...

And you just got out and you just got a $50,000 job.

Okay.

And you're working 40 hours?

Yes.

Okay,

I want you to pick up a side hustle.

You pick up a side hustle.

And I want you to pay off this $12,000 really, really fast.

Okay, like before Christmas, I want it gone.

Yes, sir.

Okay, now, if you don't have a car payment and you don't have $4,000 in debt, the only outstanding problem is the co-signing on the mortgage.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

Okay.

And she's going to continue to trash your credit because she's not going to pay it on time and you're not going to pay it.

You do not pay it.

Do you hear me?

Do not pay the house payment.

Yes.

Under any circumstances, do not pay the house payment.

Okay.

Now, what is owed on the house in total?

Do you know?

Again, I was just looking on

Experian, and I believe it's at $430,000.

What do you think the house is going to be?

There's not going to be, it doesn't have much equity on it at all.

We just moved in last year, I believe.

So we'd be lucky to get what it's worth.

Okay, I thought you refinanced the house to pay the scam, not to move in.

No, no, it was never

refinanced.

It's just everything that we had come out of pocket because she had the money at the time to pay.

But then they just,

the scam was a total of almost $100,000 that she gave, including the $10,000 that I gave her out of pocket.

So the house is

$10,000 of your money.

Yes.

Where did you get that?

At the time, I was just saving up because I was still living with her.

So it was a lot easier to save up at the time.

I was paying her rent as well, but not nearly what I'm paying now living on my own.

Okay.

All right.

Man, I'm so sorry.

This is such such a scar and such a thing to emotionally overcome.

So the only way the co-signing goes away is if she refinances the house or sells the house and pays off the mortgage.

Until then, your co-signature is going to be tearing up your mortgage, tearing up your credit forever.

And the fact that you had to co-sign tells me that she can't afford this on her own if she chose to refinance, which means she can't live there.

So your best case scenario is you talk her into selling the house to get both of you free.

That's not likely.

This woman is not concerned about other people.

She's concerned about herself.

But if you can talk her into that, that's your best case scenario.

Your next best case is just wait it out and your credit gets destroyed until someday she wakes up and sells the house.

Okay.

Your third option, which is not a good one, but it's an actual option, is to sue her and cause the house to be sold because she's not paying the payment and she's destroying your credit.

But I don't recommend that.

It's going to be very expensive, and you will never have a conversation with your mother again, even though I'm not sure that'd be a bad thing in this case.

But

the house is going to get sold.

The question is, do you want to do it with her under control or someone selling it for her in a foreclosure?

Yeah.

The lender going, hey, you got to get out.

If she comes to you for a payment, do not give her a dime.

Did you hear me?

Yes, sir.

I hear you.

Are you going to do that?

Of course.

I'll never make a payment towards that ever again.

Yeah.

If you ever give her another dime, then you fall back into the web of the spider, okay?

Correct.

Don't do it.

You've got to walk clean and go make a life for yourself and then forgive her from that position of strength

because she's obviously messed up.

I'm so sorry.

She was so scared and so desperate after getting scammed that she trashed her own child.

And that's how afraid she was.

And that's a sad, sad thing and a sad place to be.

And I'm sorry for your broken heart.

So lastly, Dominic, I think if I were you, I would sit down with a good local pastor, make sure you get a relationship built in a good church and get around some people

who treat people well and love people well and don't take advantage of people.

Because you need some normal human beings in your life.

Because you hadn't had one in a while.

You've had a lot of trauma.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, man.

I'm so sorry.

It was bad.

Some people's parents.

Hey guys, George Camill here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators.

If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th.

It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories, and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw, and Dr.

John Baloney.

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So just head to fpu.com/slash rally to save your spot today.

That's fpu.com/slash rally.

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

And with all the clickbait headlines and confusing data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

If you want to know what's happening with the latest trends, what prices are really doing, how many houses are really on the market, what the actual interest rates are, not a bunch of garbage, but what the actual facts are, ma'am, just the facts, ma'am.

Yeah, check it out.

You can go to ramseysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes.

On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Ryan and Chelsea are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey, Dave.

Hey, George.

How are you doing?

Welcome, welcome.

Where do you guys live?

We live in Memphis, Tennessee.

Awesome.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

We paid off $164,000.

Awesome.

How long did that take?

Just shy of 12 months.

Whoa.

Wow.

And your range of income during that year?

$300,000.

All the way through.

Okay, very cool.

What do you all do for a living?

I'm an HR manager.

And I'm a pilot.

Ah, very good.

Maybe FedEx?

Maybe.

Maybe.

All right, very cool.

Good for you guys.

Very fun.

Well, Memphis, welcome to Nashville.

$164,000.

What kind of debt was this?

It's a house.

You paid off your house.

How old are you, two weirdos?

I'm 29.

I'm 34.

And you have a paid-for freaking house.

Yeah.

What's the house worth?

$350,000.

Woo-hoo!

Fantastic.

I love it.

Not even 30 years old for you.

Wow.

That's so weird.

I love it.

And how much have you guys got in your nest egg nowadays?

Retirement.

About $5.50.

Whoa.

Retirement.

So you're just in about 20 minutes going to be Baby Steph's Millionaires.

That's right.

Yeah.

Way to go, guys.

Way to go.

I'm so proud of you.

Wow.

You are power couple here.

So what happened that made you guys go nuts and do this Ramsey stuff and get your house paid off by 30 and 34 years old?

We actually got married a year ago in June, and we were both Ramsey people before we even met.

So

we were just on the same team.

Was it it like a Ramsey dating app you guys met through?

What happened?

It was.

It was, yeah.

No.

There's not one.

There should be.

No, we met and we started talking and we found out within a couple dates that we were both on the same page financially and most of our beliefs.

And

so whenever we got married, we just had a plan to knock it out as fast as we could.

Yeah, and just combine the income and pay absolutely.

Did one of you already own the house before marriage?

Yeah.

I started on it a few years before.

So, yeah.

Okay.

So

you you marry, he moves into your house.

Now it's now it's our house.

And now we're going to spend 12 months at over $10,000 a month going on this thing.

Yeah.

Wow.

That is incredible.

Look at what happens when two fiscally responsible adults get together.

I mean, you guys are just like the exponential wealth building is so inspiring.

I'm just betting neither one end up in Congress.

That's what I'm betting.

I hope not.

Yeah.

They're better off.

I'm telling you.

We would be better off, but not them.

Pretty amazing, y'all.

So um did you grow up with this stuff or

i mean where did this come from he found it earlier on in life than i did yeah we my parents always lived on a very similar um similar mentality uh dealing with money but it was actually a gentleman that i worked with at a theme park in branson called uh silver dollar city and he introduced me to your uh to your teachings in about 2011 2012 and i was just like whoa this makes so much sense so okay yeah so you were that's before obviously before you were a pilot uh well i was in flight school i had one year left so I finished it up, and pretty much everything I made from there on out went to school alone.

So this is my second debt free.

Ah, I love it.

That's right.

Very good.

Very good.

Did you expect to do it in 12 months?

Did you guys have a goal in mind?

We had a goal, yeah.

Initially, we were thinking about 15 or 16 months, and then we kind of got a little tighter with the money, and we thought it was going to be 11, and it was about 11 and a half.

Wow.

Was it kind of addictive as you got going?

You're like, how much faster can we do it?

Can we beat our goal?

Oh, yeah.

Especially towards the end.

Yeah.

You gamified it both of you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We were so ready to be done.

I want the purple ring.

Yeah.

I like it.

What's next for you guys?

I mean, your baby step seven at 29 and 34.

Yeah.

What are we looking forward to?

I mean, a new car.

A new car.

Yeah, she's still driving her high school car.

So

that's coming up.

Definitely.

Definitely an upgrade.

It's time.

Yep.

It is.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep.

And that's it.

Just living and giving like no one else now.

That's right.

Yeah.

We like to live modestly.

And

vacations is kind of our thing.

So that's what we look forward to.

What's the big vacation?

What would be the next big one?

Oh, man.

I got one you're dreaming about?

He'd love to go to the Maldives.

That's probably what maybe next for us.

Yeah.

I thought we'd go back to Branson.

Little Silvan Dollar City action.

I got somebody to get it there.

Wow.

What do you tell a young couple out there who's looking at you guys going, well, must be nice for them?

You know, I've heard that a lot.

And personally, I think it's easier

if you're doing any type of thing in life,

no matter what it is, it's easier to have a teammate than an opponent.

So be on the same page.

That's good.

Good line.

Yeah.

Nice line.

Yeah.

And,

you know,

you guys got a great income between the two of you.

That doesn't hurt the math in this process at all.

But you also just set a very clear goal, complete agreement and unity on the goal, and, you know, just attack plan.

I mean,

sounds like a pilot with a flight plan to me.

Yeah.

And there was zero lifestyle creep with your story, which is so rare.

Usually,

we took calls today where someone made 300 grand and they were broke.

Yeah.

And yet you guys took control of it day one because you were on the same page, aligned with your values, your vision, where you wanted to go.

And I think that is that might be the secret sauce.

Was there any other kind of secret sauce that caused this to happen?

What was the key to getting out of debt?

No, you pretty much hit it on the head there.

You know,

if you are intentional with the money when it hits your bank account and you put it where it needs to go before you have a chance to be tempted to spend it, there's no temptation left because it's not there.

So you pre-come.

It needs to go.

You got to pre-decide.

Absolutely.

If you decide when the money's in your bank account, you're going to mess it up.

Oh, yeah.

But if you pre-decide where it's going to go by doing a budget, having a goal, it's amazing how your money will behave.

Love that.

So did you have people cheering you on?

Everybody.

Oh, yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

They were going for you.

You didn't have any detractors?

Anybody say you were crazy?

No.

Not very many.

Really?

That's good.

That's good.

Well, you don't really, you're not the kind of people to tolerate that anyway.

you seem to surround yourself with quality people.

Yeah, we do.

That's what I mean.

Yeah.

Well done, you guys.

We're very proud of you.

Thank you so much.

Excellent, excellent, excellent.

29 and 34, almost baby steps millionaires.

Paid-for house worth $350 to $400 now in the Memphis area.

Very, very cool.

Excellent, excellent work.

All right, Ryan and Chelsea from Memphis, Tennessee.

House and everything.

164 paid off in 12 months, making 300.

Count Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

Win debt-free!

Sky's the limit for these two.

Yeah, and I'm trying to capture in my head

there's something very cool about how they met.

I didn't ask them about that.

And the fact fact that they chose each other.

Because

that's like paramount to this.

Both of them had common sense.

Both of them had some understanding of how to build wealth and get debt-free before they even met.

And then they managed to meet.

So there's,

you know, all the jokes about getting married to the wrong person are not jokes.

Yeah.

And so, you know, it's like, you know, I remember one years ago when we were on the air, we used to, people send in stuff.

It's like, you know, a guy that marries a woman that likes to spend

better likes to earn or something stupid like that.

And I'm like, you know, that's just, no, what that is is a life of hell.

Yeah.

That's what that is.

And so, and vice versa.

These are two thoroughbreds of the mother.

If a lady marries a guy who's a freaking day trader, you know, I mean, oh my God, that's just hell.

You can see how it can drag you down.

It's the polar opposite of, you know, two intelligent, wise,

emotionally, spiritually mature adults aiming at the same thing together.

It's like nothing can stop a couple like that.

And so, what stops most people is each other,

not some little trick thing that you learn on TikTok.

You know,

it's that you married wrong.

I mean, you know, or you almost married wrong.

So, you know, I guess what's run through my head is just to preach and say, people, if you're single, it's worth it.

to slow down and, you know, marry a thoroughbred.

If you want to raise thoroughbreds, both of you need to be thoroughbreds.

Hello.

You don't have to drag them to get them on board.

Imagine just marrying them day one.

You're both on board.

Yeah.

It changes everything.

Pretty incredible.

They're neat.

What a neat thing.

That's two thoroughbreds.

They're pulling a lot of weight together because they're going in the same direction.

And they dropped that house.

Just pop.

Just dropped it, man.

That's cool.

Galatians 5.1 is our scripture of the day.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Thomas Sowell said, People who refuse to face the reality of hard choices are forever coming up with some clever third way, often leading to worse disasters than any of the hard choices.

Whew, that's the truth.

I've done that one myself, but not as much as I get older.

Ty is in Canada.

Hi, Ty.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, right now I am living in my mom's house at 22, and I have a baby on the way, but she's giving us a very nice option of $300 a month to rent here.

And I'm on baby step two of your program, just starting.

and I'm wondering if I should continue to save for a mortgage or if I should just

focus on baby step two, debt snowball, and then after that, work on a mortgage.

What do you make, hon?

I'm in the oil field, so it can be spotty, but last year I did about

$110,000 after taxes.

What's your fiancé make?

She's not working at the moment.

When is she due?

January 25th.

And she's not working.

Why?

I'm not 100%

sure.

We thought that we would be able to do it on just my income, but I'm realizing from my crappy decision that

that might not work.

It's okay.

Your debt is how much again?

It's $75,000 total.

Okay.

All right.

And

what kind kind of debt is it?

There's credit cards.

There's

some I owe to a phone company.

There's some I owe to the government.

And then there's some to trucks.

You haven't been an adult enough.

What do you have to take this debt on?

What do you owe on the trucks?

One truck I owe $4,500 and the other one I owe $60,000.

Okay.

All right.

Well,

you've got a lot on you at 22 years old, sir.

Yeah.

Have you been paying rent?

How long have you been living with your mom?

For

since January.

Okay.

I don't know if you're going to do all of this or not, but

because it's hard to give you a full life plan

on one phone call, on a podcast, or a radio show, but I'm going to try, okay?

So what would I do if I woke up suddenly in your shoes knowing what I know after all these years of coaching people out of debt into wealth and coaching them through everything?

The data says that,

and there's several pieces of research that back this up, that the probability of you becoming financially and marriage successful, successful in your marriage, successful in your relationships is that you get married before the child is born.

Okay?

Correct, yeah.

That's an old-fashioned thing, like a shotgun wedding, we would have called it back in the day.

Like her daddy has a shotgun, right?

That kind of thing.

So you probably heard that metaphor.

If you hadn't, you can go look it up now.

But the, yeah, so number one thing I would do is I get married immediately.

And number two thing I would do is I start looking for the least expensive one-bedroom apartment that is safe.

I do not want anything fancy.

I don't want anything that you're proud of even.

And I don't want you to spend a bunch of money on furniture.

You go the rich neighborhood and go to a garage sale and buy a $6,000 leather couch for $60 and put it in the back of your truck and haul it over to the one-bedroom apartment.

And let's get started doing life together.

Now we're a married couple with a baby on the way in an inexpensive

home

apartment that we're living in.

Okay.

So so far I've given you two instructions.

You follow me?

Yeah.

The third one is sell the truck.

Okay.

Truck's out of control.

It doesn't fit.

It's the most glaring thing in all of your facts.

It stands out from all the other parts of your facts.

All your other facts kind of make a little bit of sense.

I kind of see how they are.

And then there's like this truck.

It's like pyrotechnics, like fireworks going off when I saw that truck.

It's like huge.

It's by far the dumbest thing you've ever done in your life.

So far.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So far.

I realize that.

Okay.

And so that's, and I've done dumber, but I mean, it's kind of what I do around here, and George does, is we look at this stuff, we go, okay, how can we help this couple become prosperous and be a good dad and a good mom, a good husband and a good wife, and have a great life when eight years from today, when they're 30 and they look back and go, you know, that was a hard patch, but we got through it together.

And we had our first baby and we started life in that little one-bedroom apartment driving

a $5,000 truck because dad got rid of that $60,000 truck.

And then the kids can tell this story to their grandkids someday that the old man Ty, he's the one who turned it all around.

When grandma got pregnant with that first baby,

they got it together, and they started locking arms, and they started working their tails off, and living on less than they make, and living on a budget, and sacrificing to win.

And they're the ones that made this family rich, and you're that guy.

Yeah.

That's who I want you to be.

The one question I have is: so I have two vehicles at the moment, but one of them is broke down, doesn't work, but I still have to make payments on it.

And the other one, my newer one, is how I get to work.

Do you?

What would you suggest I do for getting?

Just get the cheapest possible car that'll get you to work.

Okay.

What's it cost to fix the other one?

Well, I need a new engine, so about seven grand.

What could you sell the truck for if it was fixed?

Probably $15,000, $20,000.

Okay.

Well, what we would do around here is we would buy a used engine from a salvage yard, a junkyard, a recycling yard, whatever you want to call them, from a truck just like the one that you had that's got totaled, but the engine is got 25,000 miles on it.

We pluck that engine out of there and drop it into that thing.

It's going to cost you about $3,000 instead of $7,000.

And I'd get three or four of my buddies and drop that engine in there one weekend and get that sucker sold.

Yeah, I think we could do that.

I think you can too.

What's the $60,000 truck worth, the one you got that loan on?

Well,

I just got it, so I probably wouldn't get much for it if I sold it back.

It was $65,000 price tag.

Okay, so maybe you can get out of it even.

Yeah, even if you break even.

I just want to make sure you weren't underwater by $20,000 or something.

Yeah, you're not.

Not yet.

You will be if you keep it two more months.

And I think your fiancé is going to have to get to work and help clean this up.

She has to do anything super strenuous.

I don't want to put the baby in jeopardy or anything, but there's some things she can do for money that are legal and moral, and I would go and do those right now.

Okay.

And instead of sitting and not doing anything.

Because anything we can throw at this situation, here's the thing.

This time next year, dude, you could be married in an apartment and no debt.

With an emergency fund?

Man, that's a wonderful thing.

That's a wonderful place to be.

One year, you're going to have a whole, and you'll be 23 years old and on your way.

And then when I get to talk to you again in your 30 you're going to call me back and tell me you're a millionaire because i leaned in pretty hard on you that day on the radio because i want you guys to win for the sake of that baby i want you guys to have a good life and so it's time to move on from high school now man time to time to buckle up buttercup here we go that's what we're going to do and you can do this you can do this you're going to be the old man that turned everything around and changed your whole family tree and they'll look back and talk about grandpa someday

And they may make jokes about him.

They do about me.

But I'm the guy who turned the whole thing around too.

So shut up.

It stopped with me.

I'm the last one.

I'm the last one.

I declared that.

And you can make that declaration and I can hear it in your voice.

And you can be the last one.

You can decide.

You changed everything in your life.

Yeah.

Same thing.

You're like, that's it.

Change the tree.

Change the family tree.

Not doing this anymore.

Break the cycle.

Yeah.

And you got babies and dogs and wives and houses and, you know,

complete manhood.

You know what I mean?

We're doing stuff.

Yep.

And that can be done.

It's just a matter of choices.

And you've got some real serious choices, and you need to make them all fairly quickly here.

Put an engine in that truck, get it sold, get the $60,000 truck sold, get a one-bedroom, affordable apartment.

She can pick up a job of some kind doing something until she's late stages, and she's not there yet.

Man, six months from now when that baby's in this world, it's going to be a different story.

Yeah.

And a year from today, way different story.

Absolutely.

Rudy for you.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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