Admit Your Financial Mess—Then Clean It Up

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From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I'm George Campbell, joined by my good pal, Mr.

Ken Coleman.

Let's do it.

There we go.

That's the attitude we need.

The number to call, if you you want to join the conversation, is 888-825-5225.

We are ready, willing, and hopefully able to assist you in whatever ails you today.

And Christopher is going to join us up first in Boston, my hometown.

What's going on, Christopher?

Hi, how's it going?

Good.

How are you?

Well, I've been better, but hopefully you can help me out with that.

I was going to say, no matter what you were about to say, you didn't sound like a bundle of joy when you started that out.

So what's going on?

Well,

I've noticed you guys have had a few day traders in the show, and I figure you could help me with my personal addiction.

I'd like to say that I'm just smart enough to understand markets, but just stupid enough to think that I can make money doing it.

Based on your tone, it sounds like you have not made money doing it, or you at least have lost money since then.

So, I started investing about five years ago, and it's been a slow trickle stream of trying my best to learn markets, get in and out, and pay for courses even.

Let's make sure we're clear.

Investing is a very different game.

What you've been doing is gambling and speculation.

It would be very difficult for me to argue with you.

Okay.

I'm not trying to dog on you.

I just want to make it clear for everyone listening because they think, like you, that, hey, I'm investing.

Dave says investing is good.

This is very different.

When you were timing the markets within a day, which is what day trading is, getting in and out, speculating on what stocks are going to go up or down.

There's a lot of risk there.

And it sounds like you bought into some courses.

Have you done like the prop firm game where you pay to go through a test?

Something similar to that.

Yeah.

But

not precisely.

More like courses offered by.

you know, certain gurus.

I won't bother naming who they are, but

I'd say the core of the issue is that as much as I love paying off debt and the idea of paying it off, when I get started paying it off, I always have this thought, well, you know, if I just took this money I'm going to use to pay this credit card and invested it, I could probably double it.

That's the starry-eyed gambler in you.

Right.

Well, you know what?

I'll tell you this, Christopher.

You are very self-aware, and I appreciate your honesty.

Even calling in and saying, I have an an addiction versus, no, I don't.

It's a hobby, it's a passion of mine.

And so I appreciate you even calling that out.

How much money have you spent on this addiction?

Over the course of the past five years, probably about $70,000.

Wow.

And are you in debt currently?

I am currently in debt, yes.

How much?

So I'm at a total of $45,000.

Okay, what kind of debt is that?

I've got $30,000 in credit card debt,

$5,000 that I owe to my father,

and about $9,000 that I owe to my ex-wife.

How much of this was due to the day trading?

I'd say about $25,000.

Okay, so over half.

Yeah.

Have you sought help?

Have you looked into Gamblers Anonymous?

I haven't.

I think

up until this point, I didn't think of it as being an issue.

What caused the turn?

Let's 45 years in.

Have you struggled with gambling on other things?

Oh, no.

No sports betting, nothing.

Yeah, I yeah, I despise that stuff.

Yeah, so

George, I appreciate what you said, and I think what you're saying is right.

It is a form of gambling, but I don't think this is a full-blown gambling type addiction.

I don't think that this is it.

I think you've got a little bit of the dumb and dumber philosophy.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember that movie, but there's a signature line in Dumb and Dumber is uttered by Jim Carrey's character.

And he's talking to his love, and he basically asked her if there's any chance.

And she was like, one in a million.

And his reply is,

so you're telling me there's a chance.

You know the line, right?

I do know that line.

And based on what I've heard so far, I think it is,

I don't know that you have, now I could be wrong, George, and I could be wrong, Christopher, but I don't think this is

like gambling addiction therapy stuff.

I could be wrong.

I think this is more a shift in your, in what you focus on.

I've nerded out.

George gets tired of me talking about this stuff.

He's heard me talk about it a million times.

I've nerded it out.

I get tired of Ken talking in general.

Well, that's true.

Well, hang on.

You got a little more coming your way.

I've done so much research and studying on the power of focus.

There's a lot written on it.

And I think that you've been focused on this.

So you're telling me there's a chance.

Pie in the sky.

Next time is my time.

And I think you've got to look at $70,000 lost.

And I think you've got to focus on

a more sound financial strategy, which George can lay out for you.

And I think if you go, I want to become wealthy and I need to focus on tried and true strategies, not this highly speculative, hit it, hit the gold.

There's gold in them hills and all that stuff.

I think it's a focus issue.

And I think that could be a big solution for you.

I really do.

But I think that's what's going on.

You just have focused so much intense

time on this concept, and it's blinded you.

Yeah, I think to Ken's point, it feels like you've lost.

agency over your life and so you've relinquished the control to chance at this point because you don't believe in Christopher to get out with his own willpower, with his own income.

Does that sound right?

Are we on to something?

Okay, good.

So, what are you making?

What are you doing for it?

So, I work in environmental.

Okay.

What do you make doing that?

Lots of overtime.

So, I'm up at about $135,000 right now.

Wow.

So, you could clean up this debt within a year, no problem.

That's part of the reason that I called you guys.

There's a certain day last week when I lost $2,500 in about 30 seconds that I was like, you know, if I had applied Dave's method starting a year ago, I would probably be out of debt today.

Yep.

And that's what prompted me to call.

Yeah, you need a new process to focus on.

You've been focused on the wrong process.

And I think the power focus is so unbelievable.

And so you need to shift your eyes to something that's going to win long term while adding more friction and removing the triggers and temptations in your life.

So have you deleted every app, deleted accounts of every day trading site?

I can't stop looking at them, even though I'm not trading currently.

I think it's your next step.

First of all, you can.

You can stop looking at them.

Stop looking at them.

Just go, this has absolutely been a train wreck for me.

And I'm going to stop looking at the train wreck.

Just stop.

Yeah.

And it might take a few days of streaks to convince yourself: man, it's been three days.

I haven't even looked at this app.

I don't miss it.

I'm making progress.

And so it's going to take, I'm not saying this is going to be easy because you've been doing this for five years.

I mean, it's become a habit.

And so we have to replace that habit with a good one, which might mean we're taking everything off the home screen and putting every dollar there.

And our budget's the one thing we're going to look at.

And it's going to be a reminder that we're getting out of this debt this time once and for all.

No day trading, just sheer willpower and our income, which is our greatest wealth-building tool.

By the way, George, I'm 15 years without drinking sweet tea.

Wow.

I used to drink sweet tea all the time.

Couldn't think I could stop.

And one day I was like, this is too much freaking sugar.

You're so brave.

I don't say it enough.

You're so courageous.

I don't like what somebody says.

I can't stop.

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Skylar's up next in Atlanta, Georgia.

What's going on, Skylar?

Hey, how are you?

Good.

How can we help today?

Yeah, so I've got some issues with my grandmother's finances.

So she retired in

about 2015, and then in 2018, she ended up selling a property and moving back home

to be closer to family for her health.

And with that, we have discovered

that she was developing Alzheimer's.

And through that, taking control of her finances, we found that when she sold the property, she filed her taxes incorrectly.

And she rightfully owed 50 grand.

And we're not sure if her Alzheimer's kind of played a role in her not paying that properly or not, but the IRS is now trying to come after her for $300,000 as of this next year.

And, you know, that's essentially going to take her entire retirement from her.

So

we've already gone through the process of getting an attorney.

We're just kind of wondering if there's any other avenues that we can explore.

Wow.

What caused the jump to 300 from 50?

I mean, that's more than just some fees

and penalties.

Yeah, I so I believe that they were originally asking for 200,000 and then

essentially she hired one of those, you know, get the IRS off-your-back companies.

She paid $30,000 for them to comb through her finances, and they discovered that, yes, she rightfully owed $50,000 through an amended tax return.

I would have done it for $10,000 if she had asked me.

You got a deal, man.

You would have.

So they just confirmed it and then took $30,000 from her.

Yes.

But it still jumped up to $300,000, right?

Yeah, so I believe the issue was that the amended tax return did not get get filed.

So I think the IRS is trying to

go with the original sum of like the $200,000.

And then with fees and whatnot for the last seven years, I believe they are trying to increase that up to $300,000.

Oh, okay.

Wow.

So what's been the contact with the IRS?

What's been the latest conversation?

Yeah, so

primarily my mother is handling this, but

she's hired an attorney.

She's put my grandmother in a home and had to sell her house in the last year to avoid a lien on the property.

And currently the IRS is trying to put everything in collections.

And so

as of right now, they've requested a hearing and have not really heard back other than that they have received the request.

Wow.

Well, I mean,

this is not your normal creditor.

The IRS, there's a reason we tell people to put any IRS debt at the top of the debt snowball.

They can really mess up your life and garnish your wages and go after your assets.

And so I don't know of a way to like that they're just going to disappear or that we're going to turn this into 50 grand, but we might be able to fight some of these enormous penalties and fees.

How much does she have in a retirement?

What's her total nest egg?

I'm not 100% aware of that.

And that'd be more of a question for my mother.

But

your mom has financial power of attorney?

Correct.

Okay.

And she's the one that's been handling this and you're helping?

Yep.

So, you know, I was made aware of it over the last, you know, year or so.

And, you know, I'm not really in a position to do anything myself, but, you know, I'm just trying to seek advice as far as, you know, some other avenues that we might explore.

Have you tried talking to a CPA or a financial advisor to get another opinion?

Find some different angles on this?

I have not.

So I can

talk talk to as many experts as I can and see if we have any consensus.

And an easy way to do that, you can jump onto Ramseysolutions.com and click on trusted experts, and you can get in touch with a financial advisor and some actual tax pros because I'm concerned about the lawyer.

Is this a tax lawyer, I presume?

Yes.

Yeah, I'm with George on this.

I guess I'm trying to put myself in your shoes as the grandson.

And I think you're sort of calling us today because you're kind of advising your mom.

I'm with George on this.

Like the IRS, I mean, there's, I don't know how much a lawyer is going to do in this situation.

I don't know how much you can fight, maybe the fees, but where I'm going is, if I'm you, I'm going, what are we paying this lawyer?

And let's get best estimates from the lawyer as to the amount of time that they think it's going to take to get some kind of an answer.

Forget resolution, because I don't think there's truly a resolution here.

If she owes the taxes she owe

the taxes so i just would be very careful about racking up lawyer fees i'd rather sit with a cpa tax pro and go if this were your mom

what would you do and advise us i just don't think there's a lot of wrangling and back and forth so i'm concerned about spending more money whereas we have a an older lady who has Alzheimer's.

And the other thing about this is, is George, I don't know this for sure, but I'm fairly certain this is not like normal debt to where if she were to pass away, the debt dies with her.

The IRS will come after this.

So I guess my point is, is I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time lawyering up here as much as I would say, we got to come up with a payment plan.

And I mean, playing nice with the IRS is the game, I think.

Playing nice and see if we can get some type of a

just some kind of agreement versus them coming after you or sending it to collection.

Some type of a payment plan to where hopefully, you know, this doesn't come out in a lump sum.

What did she do with the proceeds?

Because if she sold the property and made that much money to owe that much in taxes, she must have made some

good profit.

Yeah, I believe the property she originally sold in 2018 was roughly $750, and then she put that towards purchasing a house near family.

And then does she own the house free and clear

is it her mortgage on my knowledge yes um so she currently owns a home

no that that home ended up getting sold uh

to you know avoid the the lien process so where's that money

uh

I'm not 100% sure.

Sorry.

I think we've helped you as much as we can help you.

I think you've got to get these numbers, get these numbers from mom.

And help mom to do that.

And that might be looking at all of her assets and sitting down with that financial advisor and that tax pro and going, hey, here's everything to her name.

What would happen if we did owe this full amount?

How would she be able to live?

And so they can kind of, even if there is that worst case scenario where she loses 300 grand to pay these back taxes, let's make sure that she can at least live with dignity for the rest of her life.

And so I'm so sorry you're going through this and that you're having to deal with this.

I don't know that there's, I can wave a magic wand and tell you there's a loophole you haven't thought about.

All right.

But I wish you the best, man.

Oh, that breaks my heart, Ken.

That's a tough one.

Yeah, where you were going with this, I think, is if the money from the second home, whatever the last home they sold, if they've got enough to cover it, I'd just go ahead and take care of it, wouldn't you?

As long as

it's not in retirement.

Yeah, the longer it sits out there, the longer it's racking up penalties and fees, I'd want to just be done with this instead of trying to run from it.

Because they're coming after it.

Even if she passes, they're coming after it.

But I would want to see exactly how they arrived at that number versus just writing them a check.

Let's see exactly what caused all these fees.

I agree.

And that's where it's worth, you know, a tax pro, a tax attorney looking at this, going.

If you can get somebody from the IRS on the phone, but I got to tell you, it is a nightmare.

Slim Pickens out there.

I imagine the wait time is, it's the DMV level.

Yeah.

Trying to get a real ID.

Have you got the real ID yet, Ken?

No, I'm not going to.

Wow.

Okay.

You made it very clear.

Why is that?

I got a passport.

I'm not going to go stand in line and

waste half of my day to get a little star on the side of my ID.

It's the government telling me what to do for some stupid reason.

And when they said that a passport will work, I told my wife, I've got a passport.

Why do I need to go get a real ID?

I'm trying to free some Americans up right now.

I appreciate that.

No, seriously.

And I did it only to push your buttons and pull the little string.

You knew it was going to irritate me.

Yeah, I am the puppeteer.

I think it's the dumbest thing of all time.

What?

My regular ID doesn't work?

I got to go stand in line and get a star.

It's good enough to drive and get alcohol, but not good enough to get through TSA.

What can I say, Ken?

I will say, very positive news in the headlines last week.

They are removing the having to take the shoes off.

That's big news.

There's something to celebrate here.

I went and got TSA clearance just so I didn't have to take my shoes off.

And now they're going to do that.

You see what I'm saying?

George, you got me all irritated on a Friday afternoon.

I pulled the string and the puppet talked man the government

no get them started make it go away pay your taxes guys this is the ramsey show

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Wow, very precise.

I'm just reading the legal facts.

Stephanie's up next in Mobile, Alabama.

What's going on, Stephanie?

Hi.

My question is regarding

some land that we had

bought with other family members, three three other family members actually.

And

I was just implied.

Right.

That's what I thought in the beginning as well.

And I kind of, my feelings hadn't really changed.

But my husband, this is something that he wanted to do more.

So I was.

Who are the family?

Give us the family relationships.

Who are the three parties?

So the other three is one of his brothers,

his wife, they're two and about to be three kids, and

they live with their mom, or sorry, with his mom, or more like she lives with them.

And then

the other set is his aunt and uncle, and then the last set is his cousin, her husband, and two kids about to be another kid, too.

How much land?

It's 75 acres.

And

here's where it, for me, it felt a little bit complicated:

is that

it split 18.75 acres each, but

four acres is like our plot each.

And then the rest of that, that 14.75 for each, is the back half of the land.

And that is shared.

And

I don't know, I still don't even really understand the shared part.

What's the goal of all of this?

Yeah, this is all confusing.

Why did we do this in the first place?

It just sounded cool?

Well, I know for them, they want it.

I'm just going, I'm just here for the ride.

Who's living on the land right now?

Nobody's living on the land because we're still clearing it out.

So nothing has been even, nothing can be built on it yet because we still have to clear it.

And we're doing it ourselves and

to save money for that.

But

when I asked about the shared part, like, why are we sharing it?

So everyone only technically has four acres each?

Yeah.

Okay.

And the rest is just common areas.

When I talked to them about it,

common area.

And one of them,

I mean, I asked about it again

last week

to

one family member, he expressed that eventually he wants to get cows and I believe like have a cow mill or something like that.

And I just said, well, I'm not interested in that.

I just want to let you know that I don't

I mean, that's cool for you, but I don't want to partake in it.

And I have to feel like I have to say something now because are they trying to share costs of all this?

I'm confused.

What's the actual question here?

Oh, yeah.

The question is, yeah, yeah.

And the reason that I'm calling is because there are now expected costs that everyone is supposed to be sharing.

And I thought it was only going to be this tractor that they just purchased because in the beginning we were using a tractor that was

loaned to us for free, so we just had to pay for the food.

Okay, so you're saying, hey, Bo Cephas wants to get a giant tractor that's $500,000 to clear the land.

We're going to have to pony up $125,000.

That's your fear.

Yeah, not that much.

Sure, but just the example.

He wants to start a farm, he wants to get the cattle, and now it's on all of us to split it.

All right, listen, here's the deal.

I am so confused because I don't understand how everybody by the, it sounds like technically everybody gets 18 acres, but then you get four acres plot to put a house on.

And it just seems so convoluted.

And all that's very confusing and very frustrating for you.

Here's the problem.

I don't know how George and I help you.

I hear your question, but this is already done.

And you're the wife.

Your husband gets you into this.

It's not in any of our names yet.

It hasn't been subdivided.

So this is a marriage conversation, sounds like.

It is a marriage conversation.

And because it's,

and I spoke to him about it,

and they reassured him, don't feel pressured if you don't want to continue with this.

You can just sell your portion back to us.

Can they afford it?

I believe so, because honestly, we were the only ones that were hesitant about it.

Is your husband hesitant?

He is because of the expense, but I know he has like

FOMO because eventually he does want land and he does, and I don't mind living near my family.

I just

can you sell the land back to them and buy your own land one day when you're ready and willing and able able to actually handle it.

And I've said that.

What did it cost you guys to get in this?

So here

I'm looking for a number, Stephanie.

Give me a number.

65,000.

It's like 65, and his mom gave us 40 to put as a towards our portion because that was like part of our inheritance.

Yeah.

So she doesn't want it back.

That was a gift.

Well,

his brother said, well, if we did sell back, then then they'll keep that portion.

And whenever they sell their house, then we'll...

No, it's your inheritance.

It's your money to do what you want with it.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we would get our inheritance when they sell the house.

You guys have overcomplicated every single corner maze.

If my life depended on repeating back to you what you've told me so far in the last five minutes, I'm a dead man.

I got to tell you, this is crazy.

This is a corn maze.

That's what you built out here.

This is nuts.

And it's going nowhere fast because everyone signed up to somehow do this themselves.

This is you putting a full stop on your husband and go, hubs, we need to have a nice dinner.

No one interrupting us.

I've got fear.

I've got doubts.

I do not want to do this.

Do you hear me?

Do you see me?

And I hope he's got enough sense to see and hear you and back out of this deal.

This is going to turn into a nightmare.

These people are making up deals every other day.

aunt and uncle larry and and mabel are talking to his brother and they're cutting deals and nobody knows what's going on this is a reality tv show if i were a tv producer i'd be going everybody do this and uh we'll throw a hundred grand towards this just so i can film all this because this is going to be a nightmare yeah i'd rather him have fomo because he backed out than have his current reality which is a resentful wife and a mess on his hands that he has no control over.

And I didn't want to be that.

And I said,

I don't want to be the reason that you don't get to do this, but just know these are my fears.

And so I know he's having to make that decision, you know, ultimately

very soon on whether we're going to sell or not back to them.

And

he's been reassured that no one's going to hold anything against them if we don't do it.

Yeah, but I'm suspicious of that.

People that say, hey, listen, there's no oppression.

We're not going to hold it against you.

It's a manipulative move a lot of times.

I get out of this thing.

There's no good ideas in this mess.

It's just manure and overgrown.

George, will you quiz me on the details of this?

See if I can remember half of what she told us.

It was that confusing.

To quiz you, I would have to know half of what she said.

Oh, boy.

I'm so sorry, Stephanie.

I hope you and your husband can figure this out.

This is definitely more of a marriage issue than a financial one.

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Nathan is in Huntsville, Alabama.

Up next, what's going on, Nathan?

Hello, this uh, this is a question about like business.

Um, so I had started this business about a year ago, and I was wondering, how would you suggest to get more customers?

What's your business?

If I'm having difficulty detailing.

Car detailing?

Yes, sir.

Okay, just kind of personal.

Like, I want my car cleaned.

Do you come to me?

Is it a mobile detailing, or do I come to you?

Both.

If you have difficulty

driving to and from, I can come to you.

What have you done so far as it relates to promoting the business?

I've put it on Facebook.

I tried putting it on Google, and I've tried getting the word out by like old-fashioned going to stores suggesting like deals and stuff, but I haven't got very.

What do you mean stores?

What do you mean by stores?

Like, say, an automotive store, like AutoZone or O'Reilly's.

What do you think your best model is?

Is it people coming to you or you going to them?

What do you think is the best deal?

Basically coming to them because I get a better deal.

Right.

So the only thing is

I'd have to

pay them a little bit or discount it when

I use their water because I don't have a water source.

Right.

Do you pay them to use their water?

You don't pay them.

If you come to my house and use my water to wash wash my car, I'm not charging you.

Yeah, I'm thrilled.

I've had guys come to my house and do my car.

I'm like, yeah, the spigot's right over there.

Knock yourself out.

I don't know what you're talking about there.

Okay, so here's the thing: who are the type of people

that pay

for someone to come to their house or to their place of work to detail their car?

Describe that person for me in your mind.

Someone that might not have common sense to start a business.

Well, think about it.

If I'm going to auto zone, I'm more of a

pretty good deal about cars if I'm going to autozone regularly.

So I probably don't need someone washing my car.

I probably want to do it myself.

And so I wouldn't be going to auto zone.

I'd be going into nicer neighborhoods where people don't want to deal with the hassle.

They want someone to come to them, be professional, do a good job.

So you need some good referral marketing.

Like, hey, I'll give you a $20 to $5 gift card if you refer someone to my business.

Hey, can I get you on a schedule to where once a month I'm coming and washing your car and we get you on the books and I'll give you a discount for that?

Have you tried different models like that?

I've tried like maybe once or twice, but I haven't got how much business have you gotten so far?

How many clients?

How much money have you made?

Within a month, probably like

700, and that's barely enough to get by.

Is that like three or four cars?

Yeah.

Okay, brother, here's the deal.

Okay.

This may not be for you.

I'm not knocking you.

I would want someone to tell me the truth.

And certainly, if I'm going to call a show like this and ask, I want somebody to shoot me straight.

I don't think you're wired for this.

The answer I was looking for from you is somebody who has means, who has a disposable income.

They're very busy.

and so these are your wealthier neighborhoods and if you put a very simple clear message with a very good hook and offer like George told you and you're going around and you hit a neighborhood with I take my neighborhood there's probably 2400 homes in there listen you keep showing up long enough eventually somebody's gonna go I remember that guy and I took his card and it's on it's right there by the microwave babe and boom and you're there like this is hustle and consistency and going to the right places it's also going to pretty good-sized companies in your area that have, you know, anywhere from 100 to 200 or 300 cars in the parking lot every day.

And some of the people are going, man, if this guy will come to my place of work and detail my car, and life is good.

This is not a difficult business, nor is it a complex strategy.

But I'm going to be very, very honest with you.

If you can't take what we just told you and turn it into real clients in the next 30 to 60 days, I'm not sure you're cut out for this.

And I think you should go get a good paying job.

And let's lick our wounds, figure out what we did right, what we did wrong.

Yeah, are you working right now on top of that, Nathan?

Yeah.

What are you doing full-time?

I'm working for another details shop.

I've worked maybe like two or three other details shops.

How are they getting business?

They got enough to pay you.

Yeah.

One was

Donahue, Chevrolet, and Fort Payne, and that's where I got my first.

So, working at a dealership.

That's a car dealer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you in an area that just isn't as affluent where people are not willing to pay for this type of service?

Is that part of the problem?

Yeah.

Because getting your car detailed is a luxury.

Yeah.

You understand that.

And so you have to go after people who are willing to pay a luxury price to trade their time for this service.

Do you have pictures of cars you've detailed?

Do you have a website?

Do you have business cards?

Is your pricing clear?

Yeah, I have a website through Wix and I have

my page on Facebook.

What are you making in your current job as a detailer for working for somebody else?

What are you making?

Weekly, about $500.

Okay.

And the most you've ever made is $700 in a month on your side hustle.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Well, I'm glad that this is not your only means of income.

Glad you got that.

I think you need to reassess right now.

And the good news is your side hustle.

So I would tell you, try it a little bit longer.

I was under the wrong impression.

I'd give it a little bit longer with the techniques that we've given you.

And you got to go to the places

where they are potential customers.

But if it doesn't work after 90 days or so, I think you got to find something else where there's a little bit more demand.

And so it could be in the same type of thing, but it could be a bigger pain point.

But I know of a guy in my neighborhood.

Again, I live in a large neighborhood.

There's a guy that's making really good money cleaning garbage cans.

Coming in and power washing them, cleaning them out.

And I'll be honest with you.

If somebody knocked on my door today and said, can I do that?

I go, no, I'm not interested.

My trash can doesn't smell that bad.

It's okay.

I can live with it.

Ken's like, it's made for garbage.

Why am I cleaning it?

Why am I paying for something that's supposed to stink?

But get my point, there's obviously a pain point in our neighborhood for that, and somebody's figured it out and they're making really good money.

Pressure washing sidewalks and porches.

Maybe it's a slight shift here.

You've got to keep getting active and trying, testing.

What am I learning from this?

Why is it not working?

And figuring out why don't you have repeat customers?

Yeah.

Have these people that you've actually serviced, are they calling you back or texting you back to get another appointment on the books?

Yes, I thought about actually going to churches in my area and trying to do their vans for

negotiational

price as well.

What do you charge for a, let's say, a normal car?

Um,

for a car that's not so dirty

about a hundred inside and out okay I mean that's that's pretty affordable in the detailing world that's a bargain so there might be a world where you charge more which creates more perceived value yeah because the guy who's charging 200 I expect he's doing a better job than the guy who's charging a hundred

oh yeah are you consistently

but back to George's question are you consistently uh getting calls from the people you've already done this for?

Like every month they're calling you?

Yes.

Okay.

I would at least start with them and see if they can help you scale this thing with some word-of-mouth referrals.

They get a little kickback, share it in their local Facebook pages.

I'm telling you, there's a gold mine in neighborhood Facebook pages.

You get people posting about you, raving, where they can't help but share.

Oh my gosh, I ran into this guy, Nathan, does incredible work, very affordable.

Reach out to him.

That's the best thing.

the other day.

Really?

That's odd.

I'll find out more later.

We'll be back.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I'm George Camill, joined by my friend Ken Coleman, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Andy is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Up, what's going on, Andy?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely.

My wife and I, we are on baby steps four, five, and six.

And our current interest rate is right at about the rate of inflation.

So, my question is: should we continue with

baby step six and pay the mortgage off early?

Or because

the rate of inflation is canceling out the rate of our interest,

can we just pay it off?

It's canceling it out?

You're not paying interest all year long?

How much interest are you going to pay in the next 12 months?

Have you calculated that?

No, I haven't calculated the total.

We're at about a 2.6,

2.8%.

What's left on the mortgage?

$100,000.

Okay.

So you're pretty close to knocking this thing out.

What's your household income?

Well, I'm self-employed, so it varies.

But I think last year it was around $160,000, $180,000.

Amazing.

What's been

your worst month or worse year?

That would have been a long time ago, but

probably

$40,000 totally.

Okay.

But that's unlikely.

When you say it varies, we're not talking about it could be zero.

It's a could be 140, could be 180.

Right.

Okay, cool.

What's the question behind the question?

Because I don't think this is about the rate of inflation.

Well,

no, I'm just, I guess, is my theory sound that the rate of inflation cancels out the rate, your interest rate, and essentially you are borrowing the money for free?

Is that that sound?

And if so, wouldn't it be smarter to use the money elsewhere?

There's the question.

That's what it is.

The heart of it is I want to do something else with this money, and paying down the mortgage is not exciting, and it's a low interest rate, so why bother?

We've heard this 100,000 times.

So let me just at least talk about the inflation part.

Inflation is only really affecting how much things are costing over time.

It's not affecting how much you're paying in interest.

So now, if you were saying, hey, the rate of my savings account, if I have $100,000 in a savings account making 4%,

and I have $100,000 I could put toward the mortgage and it's at 2.6%,

wouldn't it be smarter to keep it in the savings account?

That might be a better example, at least, to crunch the numbers, right?

Okay, I think I'm following you.

So, because the rate of inflation, again, it's not affecting how much you pay on your mortgage.

It's not affecting how much you pay in interest.

So, it's not canceling anything out.

You're still going to pay thousands in interest this year.

So what you're really saying is if I could use that money elsewhere and either put it in a savings account with a guaranteed rate of return, at least for now, or invest it with a variable rate of return, could be up, could be down in the short term.

What would I do?

I'm going to pay down my mortgage regardless of the interest rate.

And that's what I've done.

And it's what we've recommended for decades now.

There is no caveat in the baby steps that says, yeah, pay off your mortgage, except if you have an interest rate below 3%, then feel free to invest that money instead.

There's no capital.

If the interest rate is above 3%,

it's that the inflation rate is also at 3%.

And what I'm telling you is that doesn't affect your life and how much you're paying an interest in that mortgage.

It's simply affecting how much things are costing you.

The overall purchasing power of my dollar is less.

So wouldn't that mean that

are you also investing 15% of your household income?

I'm sorry.

Are you investing 15% of that $180 grand?

We're in $4, $5, and $6, yeah.

Great.

So you are already beating inflation by investing.

And so I don't want you to conflate the two things.

We're doing three things at once with baby steps 4, 5, 6.

15% to investing, got that down.

Put some money away towards college, got that down.

And then baby step six has nothing to do with trying to beat the market, trying to beat inflation.

Baby step six is all about trying to get to freedom as fast as possible.

And when you free up that mortgage payment, there's less risk in your life, there's more peace in your life, and there's a whole lot less interest in your life.

And so, mathematically, depending on the time of day and the year and inflation, we could always argue about the math, but baby step six has always been about way more than the math.

And if you crunch the numbers, what could I then do if I invested that entire mortgage payment, that all of that principal and interest going towards an investment account, your mind will be blown.

So, I hope that All right, fair enough.

But you're, I mean, as an intellectual conversation, I'm probably not equipped to fight about inflation versus the mortgage.

I'm just telling you what I've done, what we recommend.

And there has not been a caveat that I've ever heard where we go, well, if you can make more, go ahead and do that.

We're always going to tell you to pay off that mortgage.

And we always tell you, if you regret it, you can always go back into debt.

The bank will be happy to loan you money at a higher interest rate, of course.

But I found that very few people.

As y'all are financial experts is it true that the rate of inflation cancels out the rate the interest rate if you're looking at this in my life

well you keep dying you're doubling down on that one where did you even hear this I've never I didn't was this a tweet or something or was it a news headline

no

I mean I chat GBT what would Dave say and I thought I better call okay let me let me let me flip it on you okay I want you to explain it to us as to how you believe the rate of inflation.

And I'm assuming you're talking about the same thing that I'm thinking of when we see the reports come out from the Fed and we see where inflation was over the last quarter.

Is that the same thing we're talking about?

Yeah,

interest rate or the

inflation rate is like between 2.5 and 3.

So you explain it to us.

I'm confused how you're going to be able to do that.

Your purchasing power equates to your fixed rate mortgage.

Right.

So explain how what you're paying in

your interest rate on your loan.

Explain how you think that the inflation rate cancels that out.

Okay.

Wow.

Well, I'm no financial expert.

Let me start there.

Not like you guys.

You don't have to be.

You don't have to be to explain to me the very thing you're asking.

Because we've already told you.

George has said twice, as a financial expert, he is i'm trying to hit it from every angle and i maybe i'm just still not understanding it so go we got about a minute give us your best shot as to why you think it cancels it out

all right um

well the rate of inflation going up from where i initially got the mortgage uh so my mortgage payment the interest rate is equal to the rate of inflation So the cost to rent the money, so to speak, to get the money from the bank to pay for the mortgage

was set when interest rates were lower than what they are now.

So, or when inflation rates.

So, because inflation has gone up

to equal to my interest rates, my question is, and I don't have an answer for this, my question is

cancel out.

Okay, well, I answer your answer.

The answer is no.

I had your friend Chad GBT help settle the debate here, and it literally says, these are apples and oranges.

One impacts the value of your money.

The other is the cost of borrowing.

So they're not equal to each other.

There's not really a direct correlation.

And man, the time we spent arguing about this, you could have just paid down the mortgage, Andy.

Simplify your life.

Get off AI.

Get in reality with no mortgage payment.

I think you'll like it better on the other side, my friend.

Thanks for the call.

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Aaron is in Spokane, Washington up next.

What's going on, Aaron?

Hey, hey, thanks, guys, for kicking my call.

Sure.

My wife and I purchased an IUL Index Universal Life Insurance Policy when we were in our early 20s.

I'm 29 now.

Since I've been listening to you guys' show for probably, I don't know, last month,

I took a deep dive and see what, you know, what they're giving me, their rates and stuff.

And I saw that the money that I put in, it's been eaten up by most of their fees.

Yep.

That's IUL.

So I'm all in, you know, taking it out.

I'll take care of this, you know, get the stupid money to get, you know, take away the

fees that they're going to get, going to take when I take the money back out.

But I don't know where to put it and park it so that we can retire and

have a nice time period because we're only 29.

We started up the whole thing

when we were 25.

So, what is your goal here?

You want to cancel this policy.

You figured out it was a rip-off, and then you got scammed.

I hope it wasn't from someone you like.

No, it was,

I worked for the Postal Service, and someone came in and sold it to us.

Okay.

Did they sell it to other coworkers?

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Well, let's help get them out, too, while you're at it.

So what's it going to cost you to get out of this thing, and what will you get out of it when all is said and done?

So right now it says

$12,000 is how much I have into it right now.

And it said if I take it out, the surrender money I would get is $10,500.

Okay, so there's essentially a $1,500 penalty to get this money out.

And you're willing,

what they want is the sunk cost fallacy: well, I don't want to lose $1,500.

We might as well keep it around.

Well, there is some cash value.

Well, there is a little face value on the policy.

What is the face value of the policy?

The actual death penalty.

It would be $300,000.

Okay.

So you need more life insurance, anyways.

Yeah.

And what are you paying per month?

I'm paying $240 a month.

And you already have an additional policy?

My additional policy is, I think it's only like $15 a month, but it's for an additional $250,000, I believe.

Is that a term life policy or a different type?

That's term.

Good.

Okay.

And what do you make a year?

I need $62,000.

Okay.

So that means we need a much higher policy on that term life.

We need at least

$620,000, 10 to 12 times your annual income.

I'd probably go for $750,000.

It's going to be very affordable, as you can see.

You're paying $15 a month for $250,000.

It's not going to go up that much to go to $750,000.

So you can keep that one and get a supplemental policy for a half million on top of that.

That could be one way to do it.

And you can jump onto Xander.com and get those quotes.

Those are the folks we trust, the same people I have my life insurance through, my wife's insurance through.

And now on the other side, you're asking about building wealth.

You want to retire one day.

Yeah.

And you were sold this as a wealth-building scheme, I'm sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we want to separate insurance and investing.

Never combine them because then you have a product that does both things very poorly.

So instead, what I'd recommend doing is investing 15% of your $62,000 income into retirement accounts that are tax advantaged.

Do you have one of those through the post office?

I do.

What do they offer?

They offer 5%.

5% match?

Is it like a 403B?

What's their retirement plan?

It's kind of like a 401k, 401k, but it's the federal version.

It's called TSP.

TSP, there we go.

Thrift savings plan.

So when you go in there to kind of match the four mutual funds we recommend, you're going to have options of C, S, and I.

When you jump in that TSP, are you tracking?

There's a lot of acronyms here.

And so you'll do 80 and C.

That's the common stock fund.

And then 10% in the S fund, 10% in the I fund.

And that'll get you pretty close to that diversification we recommend.

15% going into there.

From 29 to 65, you're going to be a multi-millionaire.

Yeah.

You can crunch the numbers in an investment calculator just to prove it to yourself.

And then you have insurance on the other side to protect the wealth that you're building.

And I think you've learned that lesson now.

But so don't conflate the two.

Make sure you have the right types of insurance in place.

You can jump on to ramseysolutions.com slash checkup, and we'll walk you through it to make sure that you have the right coverage, not too much, not too little, not any crappy policies that you need to get rid of.

And on the other side, you invest 15% of your household income for the rest of your career, you're going to be a very wealthy man.

Yeah.

Do you have any debt right now?

I already owe that.

Do you have any debt?

No, we're no car debt, no credit card debt, and our house is almost about halfway paid off.

Way to go.

Yeah.

Proud of you, man.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I do already contribute this max 5% already into my TSP.

So should I just take out that 240 that I'm contributing right now?

It's in my budget.

Can I just put that in there?

Do you guys have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

I have

just about.

We have about 15,000.

Okay.

So if you're there, if that's the number that gets you there, then I would up that contribution.

You told me you're only investing 5%, and we just covered that baby step four is 15%.

So you would triple that amount.

I don't know if you jump online to your portal for the TSP and you just ratchet up the contribution from 5% to 15%.

Okay.

And just keep it in that one.

Don't do any third party

outside of my job.

If 15% gets you there and it's a Roth TSP, do you have that option?

Yes, it is.

Whatever I contribute goes into Roth, but then whatever they contribute goes into traditional.

That's right.

Yeah, the match will sit on the traditional side.

So yeah, if you have a Roth TSP and you go that split between the CSI, 80, 10, 10, 15%, if you max that out somehow, if your income goes way up, then you can move on to a Roth IRA as well.

That would be the next place to invest.

What would be the max that I can contribute?

To the TSP?

Yeah.

Is there like a

certain amount I can put into the Roth per se?

Yeah, you're the same as the 401k, so it'd be $23,500 for this year.

Oh, okay.

So you won't hit that.

You You know, investing 15% of your 62, that'll be $9,300.

Okay.

So that's exactly what I do, man.

You're on the right track.

You're doing a lot of things well.

I'm sorry you got hosed by apparently a good salesperson selling this IUL at the post office.

Do they allow people to just solicit in there?

They have to go through a couple

people to actually get in there, but I think it was just their management and we're in North Idaho, so they don't really care.

They're like, sure, come do a little lunch and learn.

If you're providing free lunch, we'll listen to you.

Is that how it went down?

Yeah, I kind of got a sense that there's not a lot happening at the post office in northern Idaho.

Like, this is juicy stuff.

We're pretty high up there.

Well, see, you made me think it wasn't that big of a deal.

You were like, oh, they don't care.

All right.

Anyways, I tell management, don't let more insurance people in the door.

Yeah, definitely.

I think we're done with that.

But thank you for the call, Aaron.

It's a good discussion and a good reminder for everyone everyone out there.

A little teaching on insurance versus investing.

And any type of permanent life insurance, which is what Aaron just talked about, this indexed universal life insurance policy, IUL.

I did a whole video on this on my YouTube channel to expose it.

for the scam that it is.

And every time I do this, Ken, guess who's coming after me?

The IUL salespeople are very aggressive in the comments section saying, this guy doesn't understand.

It's great.

A lot of wealthy people use this.

And I'm going, not the ones that I know, not the smart ones.

And so, you got to be careful out there.

Never mix up your insurance and investing.

Never combine the two.

Anything that's sold to you as an insurance plan and an investment scheme is just that.

It's a scheme, and you should run, run far away.

So, what do you do instead?

Get a term life policy, level term life, which means you're going to pay the same payment every month.

You're going to get way more bang for your buck.

It's not going to have the cash value portion that they tout.

You don't need that because you're going to build your own wealth by investing 15% of your household income into those tax-advantaged advantaged retirement accounts.

And if you do it the right way, you do it that way, you're going to pay a fraction of the price for your term life

and you're going to build some serious wealth with compound growth with way less fees.

So I hope that makes it simple.

For anyone that doesn't have a term life policy, jump on to xander.com, get it done today.

This is how you tell your family, I love you.

If something were to happen to you, how would they replace your income?

What are they going to do?

Instead of just grieving, now they're in a financial bind.

So getting that term life policy 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15 to 20-year term, is great for most people.

Because if you follow our plan for 15 to 20 years, you become self-insured.

The house is paid off, you've had decades of compound growth, your family's going to be just fine.

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You only lose a few minutes of your time, but most people stick around the entire time.

And then I jump off, and our team's still there answering questions.

What do you think, George, of all the coaching you've done in this area?

You've done these webinars, you've done our live streams.

What do you think are the top one, two, or three reasons why people have a hard time making a budget work?

Oh.

I've never asked you that before.

It's got to be something that you think is a root cause.

Well, I think there's a, there's, I think, number one, it feels overwhelming.

They think, well, I'm not the type of person, I'm not a spreadsheet guy.

So there's overwhelming.

And then there's fear.

There's fear of what they're going to see.

Because what we're doing with the budget is holding up a mirror.

Hey, this is what you look like.

This is your financial reality.

And most people don't want to look under the bed and find the boogeyman.

But once they do, it's actually, and you know this, once you face that fear and just do it, you go, oh, that wasn't so bad.

Yeah.

And so I think they're overwhelmed.

There's fear.

And then it feels like one more thing to add to their stress and anxious plate.

That's right.

And they don't want to screw it up.

That's good.

And they think they can't stick to it.

It's too much work, too much time.

I don't have the time to deal with it.

So if that's you listening to George going, that feels right, kick the tires, do this free training.

It's been eye-opening because we asked the question, how long have you been living this way?

Paycheck to paycheck, stressed, anxious.

And most people say, most of my adult life.

Yeah, that's all they know.

Their nervous system has actually been reconditioned to feel that stress.

It's bad.

So if you want to weigh out, we'll show you.

And it's been very empowering and encouraging to see the results here.

Go to everydollar.com/slash webinar.

Join us for the next one.

I'll be doing a few a month.

All right, Peter's in Tucson up next.

What's going on, Peter?

Hey, gentlemen, thanks for taking my call.

How y'all doing?

Doing great.

How can we help?

Yeah, so my wife and I have been living with our in-laws for about nine months, and we're just looking to get our own places as soon as we can.

And we're open for

advice.

Okay.

So you've been living with her parents?

Yes, yes, sir.

Her parents.

For the specific purpose of saving up money.

Saving money and paying off debt.

We just became debt-free in May.

Oh, congratulations.

Yeah, thanks, guys.

We're just solely focused on

saving for this down payment.

Do you have your emergency fund fully saved up yet?

We do.

We're on baby step three, Bravo.

We got

$15,000 savings.

Cool.

Nice.

How much are you saving per month toward this down payment?

Well, so we're bringing in about $8,600 a month.

And we usually put away anywhere from $3,000 to $3,500 into savings.

Hold up.

You're telling me that even living with your in-laws, your expenses are still $5,000 a month?

I saw this coming.

Yeah, well, no,

we only our monthly expenses are $810.

We give them some money for rents, and then we have our

subscriptions and a storage unit in Texas where we used to live.

But you said you're putting $3,500 in savings.

Right?

Yeah, anywhere from $3,000 to $3,500, yes, sir.

But you're making $8,600 a month take-home?

Did I hear that right?

Yes.

$2,000 of that is

$2,000 of that is

my wife's paycheck, and then that goes right into savings.

Yeah, but George is wanting to know where the rest of that money's going.

He's starting to get out of the way.

I'm just starting to break out hives over here.

You make $8,500, you're putting $3,500 away.

Where is the other $5,000 going?

So far, you've laid out some rent, the $8,100,000.

Yeah, well, majority of that time, we were putting...

all that to the debt to pay that off.

So the last two months, we did some traveling,

and then we had our six-month car insurance.

Um,

okay, so you've had some expenses come up and some entertainment.

You know, you guys are dead-free now, there's nothing wrong with going on vacation, but here's here's what I'm getting at.

I have found that most people who say, Hey, we're gonna live with the in-laws to save some money, what ends up happening is they get comfortable, they increase their lifestyle, and that goal is gonna be seven years of living with the in-laws.

So, that's what I want to know.

Is there an exit strategy to go, nope, we are going to have $50,000 saved for our down payment within 12 months and then we are getting out.

What's that actual number?

What's the number you're trying to save for down payment and when do you think you'll get there?

Yeah, well, we want to put down the least we can, 3%, just to get into the market.

So we want to have about 28,000 to include closing costs to have a nice buffer for an emergency fund.

So 28,000 is the number we're looking for.

How much the least amount down is not a good financial strategy.

Can I just tell you?

In any area of your life.

So does that mean you're going to have a mortgage payment that's far more than 25% of your take-home pay?

Well,

because we'd have PMI on top of that.

I mean, we wouldn't want anything that's more than $2,000 a month for a mortgage.

That's what I'm saying.

The higher the down payment, the lower the mortgage.

So if you're putting very little down, that means you're likely going to have a gigantic mortgage that's more than a quarter of your take-home pay.

That's what I'm getting after.

Gotcha, yeah.

But, you know, nowadays, I'm sure you guys know that would take us, you know, years years to get to that 20% for the down payment.

How old are you guys?

24.

Oh, my goodness.

Well, you're on your deathbed, I guess.

Let's hurry it up.

Well, hold on.

I got to dive into this.

I got to dive into the years thing.

All right, so let's run through the numbers.

What expense are we looking at on a house?

What are you guys looking at?

Anywhere from 280 to 300,000.

Okay, let's take a high number.

Okay, let's take the high number.

You're going to buy a house for $300,000.

okay?

20% of that is what?

$60,000.

You're tracking with me?

Basic math here?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So 20% down payment on a $300,000 house is $60,000.

You said you wanted to save $28,000

at a 3%.

And what George is saying is that's not a good idea.

Your reply was, it'll take years for us.

Well, the gap between 28 and 60 with your income is actually not that much.

And my guess is you were going to do 3% down on a 30-year mortgage?

Yes.

That's an accurate guess.

Okay.

So here's the deal.

So far, you were following the Ramsey plan, and now you turned it into a choose your own adventure, which I have no problem with.

I'm going to sleep well at night no matter what you do.

I just want to see you win.

So if you're following the Ramsey plan, we would recommend only a 15-year mortgage where your payment is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay.

So you guys make $8,600 a month.

Are you doing any investing right now?

We're doing a Roth IRA.

We're putting a small amount just because we're prioritizing and saving, putting a small amount monthly to that.

Okay.

So when we say 25% of take-home pay, what we're talking about is after taxes, but before any other deductions like retirement or health care premiums.

So that should help your numbers.

Let's call it $9,000 then.

Okay.

Okay.

So divided by four, $2,250 is what you're aiming for with that 15-year.

So if this was a $300,000 house to get to $2,250, we would have to put down, ready for it,

about $70,000.

All right?

Okay.

So $70,000 becomes the magic number instead of as little as we can put down.

So now let's talk about the $70,000.

Currently, you have nothing saved for the down payment.

We're just getting started?

Yeah, I mean, we have $15,000 in savings to take away the $2,000 for the emergency fund.

So about $1,200, let's say.

Well, you need at least $15 for the emergency fund.

So let's not touch that.

Do you have any money outside of that right now?

No, not currently.

Okay.

So let's say we're starting from zero.

We need to save up $70,000, and you can put away $5,000 a month.

You tracking with me?

That is 14 months from now.

We have $70,000 ready for the down payment, and we can move.

Not years.

Gotcha.

So that's how specific I want you to be with an exit strategy.

And truthfully,

I would say let's do a year max and really hunker down and save up the 70 grand in a year.

okay yeah yeah tighten the hatches yes um

that's the only way i would stay in the scenario i would not stay in the scenario going well once we have the down payment maybe we'll get out of here but and if i'm you i'm wanting to get out of my in-laws house as soon as possible man you're still you're still paying a grand i mean you might as well get your own place and pay an extra grand and slow down your house down payment by a few months that's all it's going to do yeah Yeah, right.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for the insight, guys.

We appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Hey, I'm rooting for you.

I'm not trying to dog on you.

I just want to see you in, and I want a very clear plan and exit strategy here so that we don't turn this into a hammock.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation.

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

As you've heard from some callers, some people tend to veer off the path.

And so, if you want to get back back on it, you want to check your progress, you can take a quick quiz and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click on the link titled, Are You On Track with the Baby Steps?

and complete the quiz.

And before we get to the calls, Ken, we have a special announcement to make.

Yeah, I'm very excited.

So you have a show called Front Row Service.

Front Row has just blown up in the last few months.

It's a lot of fun.

It's a deep dive conversation show.

And we have a live audience.

The audience gets to sit in the interview and actually sit around me and the guests.

Hence the name.

Hence the name.

And they get to ask questions.

So I wanted to tell our very large audience, if you're going to be in town July the 16th, that's a Wednesday.

So if you can be in the Nashville area, you'll be in the middle of the day.

In the Nashville area at our headquarters.

George Camill is joining me as my guest on the show.

If you're a big George Camill fan, you want to meet George, ask him a question.

We're going to be having a really fun deep dive around money and myths and winning financially.

It's at 1.30.

You'll actually

1.30 Central Time.

You can sign up to be in the audience by going to kencoleman.com/slash show.

Pretty simple, kencoleman.com/slash show.

If you're going to be in Nashville or you're close enough that you want to come up for these

people, made the drive from Kentucky and

people drive in from all over the place.

So, there it is.

I'd love for you to join us.

Don't embarrass me, guys.

I want there to be a wait list.

I want it to be packed out.

I want there to be standing room only.

George's fragile ego needs you to show up.

Four people show up.

I'm out.

I'm not doing the interview.

We won't.

Actually, we'll cancel it.

Let's be honest.

I i would do this in in a closet to nobody so it's fine a lot of we're gonna have a good time either way but we'd love for you to join us kencoleman.com slash show if you want to be a part of that live audience connor is up next in indianapolis what's going on connor how can we help

hi george and ken thank you for taking my call um i guess i'll give a little backstory first so my wife and i got married seven months ago.

We're from the Boston area.

Shout out to George.

Yeah.

And,

you know, coming into the marriage, I was debt-free, and she had an amalgamation of student loan debts, credit card debts, and some medical debts that we decided, you know, once we got married, we were going to go scorched earth on our debt.

And so, part of that is that my wife is a medical professional, and we decided to travel nurse.

And so, we moved out to Indianapolis, and she's travel nursing.

It's cheaper to live out here, she's making more money.

I switch professions on making more money.

But one of the student loan companies, it was a private student loan with citizens,

they reached out to us because we were trying to refinance with WiRefi.

And so after four months of not paying citizens, citizens reached out to us with a payoff offer that's 45% of the total value, and they said they'd consider it paid in full.

I'm looking for some advice on how to talk to debt collectors and whether or not that's a good deal, I guess.

Well, number one, you sign on the dotted line for the full amount.

And so that's what the amount you owed.

So I wouldn't be looking for a good deal.

This isn't Black Friday.

We're not shopping for TVs.

So as far as a good deal goes, you know, the longer it sits out there, the better chance you have of settling.

But if they're offering 45%, I'm going to take it.

Because you're saying it hasn't gone to collections yet?

So the collections department emailed us and said that they would do 41

companies

at Citizens.

I was thinking the same thing, George.

That's a sweetheart of a deal.

So it hasn't actually gone to, like a debt collector has not bought this debt from citizens yet.

No, a debt collector hasn't bought it from citizens yet.

It's just in the citizens' collections department.

That's impressive that they're even offering this because usually what happens is they go, you can't pay, it's going to collections.

Collections comes after you.

Now, collections, they buy it for cents on the dollar.

So you probably have a better chance dealing with collectors, but I would not just let it go to collections hoping to save a dime.

I would pay that amount, 45%.

What is that amount?

$51,000.

Okay, and how much do you guys guys have right now that you could make liquid cash?

We have $5,000, but we talked to our bank and they will give us a personal loan for $51,000

over a five-year term.

We're going to go into debt to pay off the other debt so that we have a new debt?

So the way that I had thought about it is I heard you guys talk about if you have a car that you're underwater on, sell it and sign a note for the difference, where this would be $60,000 less than the initial cost.

didn't know if that was what you would recommend or not.

No, a car loan, that would be a very different scenario because you have a depreciating asset here and we're trying to get out from under it.

Instead of being in 25 grand of debt, we're in five grand of debt because we got rid of the asset.

So your student loans would be very different.

So what I would do is say, hey, we have this, this is how much money we have right now.

Would you be willing to allow us to pay this over time for that 45% of value or is it lump sum only?

Have you got clarity on that?

Yes, it's only lump sum only.

They offered us a payover time of $67,000 over the course of a year, and we can't afford to make those payments.

How much do you guys make a year?

Combined right now.

So I'm working in sales.

So with my base, our combined salary take home is $140,000.

Okay, but that only includes your base.

Correct.

I mean, I'm assuming you're going to make some commission.

You aren't terrible at sales.

The thing is, I just don't know what the commission is because I just changed career direction when we moved out here to Indiana.

And so I don't exactly know how much I'm going to bring home because I've been doing sales.

Sure.

But I'm telling you, hey, if we sold like our life depended on it, could we make 200 and knock out this debt in less than a year?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And even making $140,000.

Is this all of your debt or is there other debts hanging around?

There's other debts hanging around as well.

There's a government student loan that's $32,000 and a credit card that's $12,000 paying off.

Okay.

But you've been, you're behind on this private student loan.

Are you current on the rest?

We're current on the rest.

We had tried to refinance with YReFi, and so that's why we're behind on the private student loan.

Okay.

Well, I would definitely hunker down and focus on that debt because it sounds like it's about to go to collections, which is just going to add pain and misery to your life.

Can you make minimum payments on the rest of the debts while attacking that collection debt aggressively?

Yes.

i would do that and i would take their deal of 45 make sure you get it in writing and don't give them access to your checking account

that's that's the deal here so you can give them you know a cashier's check money order but we're not going to do or prepaid debit card that can also be a good option but don't give them electronic access to your account Yeah, of course.

Okay.

Got it.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Good luck, man.

You got a battle ahead of you, but we got to change our mindset around this instead of going, hey, is there another type of debt I can use to pay off this debt to make me feel better?

The debt is the debt.

And so switching it around, moving it around, playing a shell game, it'll make you feel better temporarily, but it doesn't solve the problem.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's go to Nicole in San Antonio up next.

What's going on, Nicole?

Hi, Kane.

Hey, George.

Hey.

My spouse and I, we are in baby step two.

We bring home about $8,000 a month.

And we're ready to become debt-free.

And we're really just stuck right now.

And we're unsure of what our next step should be.

We have $11,000 in crypto, and then we have $50,000 in a rental property and equity, and we're about $98,000 in debt.

What kind of debt is that?

So we have $2,700 in hospital bills, $4,100 in consumer debt, $32,000 in a car loan, and then $59,000 in student loans.

What's your household income?

We bring home about $96,000 a year.

Okay.

Tell Tell us about that car.

That's a lot of car.

That's a lot.

What's her car worth?

Her car is probably worth about

$20,000.

And you owe $32,000?

Yes.

We were actually upside down on another car, and we had to get out of it because there was maintenance problems on it.

So we ended up just...

You rolled over the negative equity.

Yeah.

Seen this play before.

It's not a fun one.

What's that car payment every month?

So we just refinance it and it's about $5.20 a month.

Okay.

And what are you wanting to do?

What's your question today?

So my question is, should we sell the crypto?

Again, it's like $11,000 to $12,000 and then just pay all that to our debt?

Or could we sell our rental house?

Someone's in it right now and they're going to be in it for the next till next August.

We make about $5.90,000 a month off of it, but we just put that in savings in case something happens, like AC goes out or something.

Yeah, I would get out of the rental game.

You might look into how you could get out of the lease and get the tenant out of there ASAP, and I would liquidate the crypto.

You are not in a place to be investing, you're not in a place to be rental gurus.

You got to get out of a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt.

I would likely try to sell that car too and save up the difference you're underwater.

And it's going to be a journey to get there, but you can do it.

Hey, everybody, our summer Black Friday sale is here.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I'm George Campbell here with Ken Coleman, and the phone lines are open at 888-825-5225.

Ken will help you make the most income possible with work that you love, and I'll tell you what to do with it once you have some.

Diego is in Newport Beach to kick us off this hour.

What's going on, Diego?

Hey, George.

Hey, Ken.

How are we doing today?

Doing great.

Good.

How are you?

I'm doing fairly well myself.

Thank you guys for taking my call.

Just a little backstory before I get into my question.

I'm 23 years old, and my wife is 25.

We have recently just gotten married.

And I mean, recently, as in like two weeks ago.

Hey,

yes, very exciting.

Very blessed.

And she's amazing.

I'm a very lucky man.

But my question is coming down to finances.

We are both debt-free.

She's a public school teacher, and I'm a pharmaceutical sales rep.

Moving forward, how do we combine our finances into one?

We both agree that's what we want to do.

I'm just struggling to really get the logistics of moving over into one account.

Do I keep my prior investments in a separate?

I just need a little bit of backstory or advice on how to do that moving forward.

As well, I know this might be a two-part question, but as well, a proper way to start saving for a house.

Do you go the mutual fund route or just throw money in a high-yield savings?

You're asking the right questions.

I love it.

Congratulations.

Okay, I'll make this as simple as possible, and I'll tell you what I did.

I had a checking account, and I made it a joint account.

So I didn't even switch the numbers.

It's the same account number.

I just made it a joint account at my bank and added my wife to it.

And then my wife, we just transferred the money from hers into that joint account and we shut her account down.

So we have one joint checking account and we have one high yield savings account.

And that's where we keep our emergency fund.

You can create a little separate high yield savings.

But either way, every single account that I have is joint.

So her name is on it and my name is on it.

So that's what you do going forward.

Credit cards as well?

Well, I don't believe in credit cards like I don't believe in the tooth fairy.

So

what we're saying is, yes, everything is.

Why'd you have to bring the tooth fairy into this?

I'm just letting people know

I didn't get any money from the tooth fairy.

Now that explains it.

So

I got gypped, is what I'm saying.

But anyways, yes, everything in your life would be together.

So her name would be on it, your name would be on it.

Okay.

And then that definitely helps.

Yeah, as far as you're saying the house savings goes,

is this something that is in the near future, like two years, or is this more like five, six, seven years?

It would hopefully be in three years, and I would love to put 20%.

Now, being in Newport Beach, California,

it's a little rough out here.

So the average house is around 1.2 million.

And if you take 20%, on average, it's around 240,260.

She makes $85,000.

I make $70,000 plus $20,000 commission.

I don't plan on staying in this position for another two years.

I look to get a salary increase.

Yeah, I was going to say, pharmaceutical sales, I feel like, should start at six figures.

But it sounds like you're just getting into it.

Correct.

Yeah.

I just graduated college about a year ago.

So it was...

It was anything I could take.

I'm very lucky.

But in terms of what I want to do, I wanted to do a 20%

down payment.

Now, I earlier heard you say putting over for a 15-year mortgage.

How come not a 30-year fix rate?

Well, our goal here with the Ramsey crew is to get out of debt as fast as possible and stay out of debt.

And so the options here in America are generally 15 and a 30 year.

And what we found is 30 year mortgages have over double the interest because there's usually a slightly higher interest rate.

on a 30 year versus a 15.

Plus, you have it for twice as long.

And some people fool themselves into thinking, well, I'll just take on the 30 and pay it like a 15.

Rarely does that happen because there's something called human nature.

And human nature says, I'd rather not put it toward the mortgage.

So the 15-year is sort of a forced savings plan that means no matter what, 15 years from now, let's say you buy it in two years, you're 25 at that point.

Well, by the time you're 40, no matter what happens, you have a paid four house in California that has been appreciating for 15 years.

And so

that's the reason.

It's a huge savings on interest.

It's a a four savings plan that gets you through the Ramsey plan faster.

Okay, that definitely makes a lot of sense too, because I always thought keeping it at a fixed rate would make it easier in terms of how dealing with finances, but human nature does seem to always speak out.

It's a fixed rate.

It's a 15-year fixed rate versus a 30-year fixed rate.

So it's the same thing.

It's just cutting your time in half, which does increase your payment.

So it will be a higher payment,

but that's a good thing because it means you're adding way more to the principal, knocking that out faster instead of sending it to the lender through interest.

Because if you go look at the amortization schedule, you'll compare the two, you'll go, oh my goodness, for the first 10 years I'm paying this 30-year mortgage, almost none of it is going to principal.

I'm paying thousands to the lender.

And so the goal is to get out of debt as fast as possible, pay as little interest as possible.

And it's the only type of debt we don't yell at you for.

And what I would do is just park it in a high-yield savings account.

With a three-year timeline, it's not long enough to have some serious compound growth in the market, and you could lose money in a time frame that short.

That is true.

And then

I guess, should I still keep investing then in a mutual fund?

Like I currently use Vanguard, their SP 500, and then the Vanguard total stock market, which is the VTI.

I use that.

And then should that just be invested just for personal use?

Well, are you guys investing for retirement outside of that?

So she has a 403B because she's a public school teacher and then she has a pension once she retires and she contributes 10% of her paycheck.

For me, I have a 401k.

My company matches up to 9%.

I currently put 12%.

And then on top of that, I have a Roth IRA.

Oh, great.

So I kind of, we both have our retirement kind of already handled.

I guess I was just really confused on using a mutual fund to, I guess,

you can have like a taxable brokerage account and just invest there, but we look at that as a longer-term play if you're going to be investing in a taxable brokerage account.

So if it was parked there for like five years, I would say it's a good move.

Anything less than five, I start to get a little shaky on, but you'll likely be okay.

You're, you're, you got an index fund there, so it's very diversified, it's not risky like a single stock, but you're still in the process.

When you go to close on that house, the market could take a dip and your stomach will go with it.

Yeah, and then I always hear you guys mention an emergency fund.

Um, what is the appropriate timeline?

I know everyone kind of varies between three and six months.

Now, with us being combined finances, does that still look

at like a higher price point?

No, it's still.

How do you guys measure that?

So you take your combined household income, okay, and now you're going to take three to six months of that.

So it's just simple math.

Divide your total income by 12, and let's get a three-month number, a four-month number, a five-month number, and a six-month number.

And then it comes down to your discretion.

We just give you a ballpark between the three to six months, three months of your income being a minimum.

So, if you make five grand a month, your expenses are five grand a month, six months of that would be 30 grand.

So, that should be your goal.

And that comes before you save up for a down payment and before you invest.

So, get that done, ASAP, if you don't have it already, then get back to it.

Well, thank you, guys.

I appreciate your time.

Have you enjoyed the rest of your day?

Hey, congrats.

Yeah, I'm going to send you Financial Peace University as a little newlywed gift from Ken and I.

Is that okay, Ken?

I don't want to put you on the spot.

Are you willing?

I am very willing.

Very willing.

I want to see a young couple win, and this guy's got a good head on his shoulders.

Very smart man.

I can tell based on the conversation.

Just need a little bit of guidance to go, okay, what's the next step?

What's the next step?

You're asking the right questions, Diego.

Wishing you guys the best.

Hey, George Camill here.

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Nick is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

What's going on, Nick?

So I am about $30,000 in debt right now on a pickup truck.

And then in addition to that, I currently owe about $15,000 to an attorney for ongoing litigation that I'm going through right now.

And I just am curious, how do I balance paying my attorney with trying to snowball the pickup truck?

Tell us more about this ongoing, that's the part that concerns me, ongoing litigation.

What's happening?

Well,

it pertains to custody of my son.

Me and his mother are split up

and she is currently going through active addiction.

So it's not something I'm willing to compromise on.

I need to have him.

Sure.

And that's it.

Yeah, we've taken a lot of these calls, and what I have learned is sometimes these things go on and on and on.

Is there any sense

of how much longer this is going to play out?

Well,

we have a hearing coming up,

I think, in October, and

they're ready to put a final order in on it, and because it's just drug on for far longer than it should have on.

So they feel pretty good that October is going to be.

There's a finish line here.

There's a finish line, no more attorney's fees.

yes okay is there one other question on this is there any uh is there any sense or a way of knowing how much more you'll have to pay your lawyer in between now and October

well if

if nothing pops up then it should be minimal that's what I was wondering okay it's

if something does pop up then we have to go back to motions court and that's

that's where it gets expensive okay all right thank you for giving us that that helps us a little bit so you currently owe the attorney fifteen thousand

yes okay what has the current conversation been about payment and when you're going to pay that

um like are you just racking up a bill that eventually they're like hey this you're oh this is all owed up front now

well it's uh they've been letting me pay as i can as i go along um but it's it's just getting to the point where I'm looking at those eras on the end and getting a little nervous.

And

it's, no, they're doing the work.

It's only right that I pay them for the work.

But it sounds like you, how much are you paying them currently if you're $15,000 in debt?

Well, I was paying about $2,000 a month.

And then

back in February,

I wrecked my last truck.

I had no choice but to go out and

finance one because

I had burned through my savings paying the attorney off, and it's just

Let's make it clear.

You had a choice.

You could have chosen a $5,000 pickup truck.

You chose a $30,000 truck.

That's correct.

Okay.

I just want to make our language clear because I think that's what partially has gotten into some of this mess.

What's your income?

I was right around $100,000 last year.

And for how long were you paying $2,000 a month?

Because that tells me, well, I'm sorry.

How long were you paying $2,000 a month?

And then were you pulling that out of savings or was that a part of your normal income and you were cash flowing the $2,000?

I had about $10,000 in savings.

I burned through that and I was cash flowing the rest.

So, okay.

So, how much could you pay a month

after you've paid all of your bills?

What is your margin to be able to put towards all of this debt together?

After I pay all my bills,

to pay the attorney, just to pay the attorney.

Just what's left over?

No, I'm saying what's left over.

You pay your minimum payments, your truck payment, and you pay your bills, your food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance.

What's left at the end of the month?

Or what should be left?

Between

if your expenses are $2,500.

I'm going to spend $20 every time I work.

Okay, so $2,500 to $3,000.

So let's operate George off that low.

So that's enough to cash flow the rest of the attorney fees.

Yeah.

Correct?

Yes.

Okay.

So let's focus on that.

You're in a storm right now, and so you don't need to be aggressively trying to pay off debt.

We just need to avoid getting into more of it.

Well, is there any other debt besides the truck?

No.

No, I had

I've never really

had a credit card.

Okay.

Let's look at the truck really quick.

That's all.

You just recently bought the truck, yes?

About six months, but five, six months ago.

All right, give us the, give us, we know you owe 32 on it.

What could you sell it for?

I'd have to run Blue Book on it, but I'd imagine 32 maybe.

Okay.

Close to what you paid for it.

George, I'm wondering.

Because

what's that truck payment every month?

About $800.

No, that's a raise, my friend.

That's almost a $10,000 raise.

George, I'm wondering, do we not cash flow a $5,000 or $6,000 SUV or truck, just something

to get the pay raise immediately of that truck payment back?

And we wipe $32,000 off the books.

And now he cash flows that $15,000 pretty darn fast.

He's also a pretty able guy, probably could do some side hustle work.

That's what I'm prescribing.

I like this plan.

If you can work it out with the attorneys to have this paid later, I don't know what the current process is for payment, but if you can pay what you need to for the attorneys right now, and then anything above that, put in savings so that you can cash flow a car, then we can get out from under this truck.

Okay.

Because that's killing you right now.

What do you need a $30,000 truck for right now?

I don't really need a $30,000 truck.

The last truck, I got tired of going to the parts store every week and spending $500.

I get it, but you look at the big picture.

I'd rather deal with the nuisance of putting duct tape, if you will.

I'm using that as a metaphor on a a car, that we're not chucking $800 a month out.

Because listen, let's just fast forward for a moment.

I want you to picture having no debt, not owing your lawyer anything, hopefully your son, full custody, hopefully all that works out, and you have no debt, no truck payment, and no lawyer fee hanging over your head, and you're making really good income.

I want you to fast forward to that moment.

How's that look to you?

I'd say it looks like Shitmon Cloud9.

Well, then you'd have like that grand a month cleared up.

I mean, you would have so much cash flow and margin.

A lot of cash flow margin.

That's the play, man.

Listen, here's why.

I would say, George and I would give this advice to anybody who called, but for a guy who's in a fight with his ex, who's dealing with substance issues, and this is over your son in custody, man, that I can't even do that.

The stakes have never been higher.

I can't even try to put myself in your shoes.

But I do know that it is really hard on you mentally and emotionally, just that situation alone.

And

the debt on top of it.

And so to, here's the deal.

Life already sucks for you, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does.

So here's my point.

Let's go ahead and embrace the suck and knock out the debt.

And so when we hopefully clear this relationship hurdle, now we're also debt-free pretty shortly thereafter.

I just think now's the time to bite the bullet here.

Yeah, think about that.

I mean, you get rid of that car payment.

All that's left is the 15K.

You start chunking three grand a month toward it.

You're done in five months with this attorney fees.

You're completely debt-free.

So think your life's going to look very different six months from now.

And so it's hard to see the force from the trees right now when you're in the thick of it.

But man, I see a very different future for you just in the early part of 2026.

And Nick, I would tell your lawyer this.

Sounds like your lawyer's a good person and already working with you.

If you were to describe what your plan is, as George and I have laid it out, I think that's going to take some pressure off of you as well because they're going to go, oh, dude, good man.

I'm good.

I just think that'll help you as well because I understand the weight of that owing something to somebody who's helping you with the biggest thing in your life.

Yeah, man, wishing you the best with this legal battle.

That is not fun, but there's hope on the other side for you, my friend.

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Our question today is from Marco in Arkansas.

Oh, I'm in.

Sorry, how to do it?

I like that.

Didn't we just meet a family from Texarkana, Arkansas?

We did in the lobby.

Oh, there they are right there.

Very nice.

Marco says, I'm in baby step two with $10,000 left to pay off.

I'm ready to go all in by working two full-time jobs until I get through baby step three.

I'm worried that my kids will be affected by dad not being around as much.

Should I go through this to

benefit us in the long run, or am I going to cause damage to my children and potentially my spouse?

Even though she's on board with my plan, I make about $100,000 at my current job.

What?

You're not going to damage your children.

They probably aren't even old enough to know that you're around.

You know, it kind of goes like this.

So I'm on the other end of the spectrum of George.

George is just getting started.

And I'm, you know, like I see empty nesting.

It's in your near future.

It's there.

It's another millennium from me.

Boy, oh, boy, am I excited about it.

I love my kids, but I got to tell you,

it looks nice.

Anyway, point is, is that I feel like there's a season where the kids, they have no concept of time.

You know what I mean?

They're babies, so they don't even know what's going on.

Then they're toddlers, can't appreciate what's going on.

Then they're like elementary,

they're fine.

You know, they're fine.

And then you've got this like maybe

second, third grade, they start being aware mom and dad aren't around, whatever.

And then they become middle schoolers and you don't want to be around them.

And then they become teenagers and they don't want to be around you.

So I just want to give some perspective here as a guy who's in this.

Marco, you're going to be fine.

It is definitely, if they got to see a little bit less of dad for a season, as long as they understand why to the ability that they can understand.

If they can't understand it, it doesn't matter.

If they can, I think they're really going to appreciate it.

They'll get it, and everything's going to be okay.

Yeah.

And based on his language here, he's saying, I'm ready to go all in.

It sounds like this has been stressing him out, and he's wanting to get rid of it fast.

And here's the thing: a stressed dad, a stressed mom is not a present dad.

Yeah,

they feel that.

They feel it.

And so I'd rather you not be around them if you're like a live wire because you're so stressed out about your money.

I'd rather you be at work working to clean this mess up.

And the other thing is, the math ain't mathing for me.

You got 10 grand to pay off.

You make 100 grand at your current job without the two full-time.

Why is it going to take you so long that you think you're going to cause trauma to your kids?

Are you going to be doing this for three years?

I think you could clean it up with the current income if you just got your expenses down.

You can get out of 10 grand of debt and save up another 25 pretty quickly making six figures.

So I don't know that your plan is necessary.

I would like to see what we can do on the expenses side before we go to up the income.

But either way, if this is a short period, like six months to go hard at this, your kids will be like, wait, what?

What happened when I I was two?

I don't have any recollection.

Not ringing a bell.

So I wouldn't worry about it.

But way to go, Marco, for being willing to go all in and having a spouse that's on board.

That's a good sign.

Sarah is in Boston up next.

What's going on, Sarah?

Hi, George.

I can.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

So, sadly, last month, my mother-in-law passed away

and she left, thank you, thank you.

She left two paid-off properties to my husband and his two sisters.

And the siblings have agreed to sell the primary residence.

But my husband wants to keep the other home.

It's a small cottage on Cape Cod, and he plans to use his share of the primary home sale to buy out his sisters.

Cool.

So, yeah, but my dilemma is, you know, emotionally, my heart and my husband want to keep this Cape House.

But my logical side says that we should probably sell both properties to pay off our mortgage faster and then become completely debt-free.

Wow.

That's why

I'm trying to get your advice.

Yeah, thanks for the call.

So faster.

Give us a real specific idea here.

In other words, if you don't sell these homes and put it all on your mortgage, how when do you anticipate paying off your primary home?

So we only bought it about two years ago.

So we're looking at another 13 years or so hopefully quicker but that's if you put nothing extra toward the principal though right yes exactly what's your income

um we make around three hundred and ten thousand a year what's on the mortgage what's left 560

okay

so uh i'm trying to find a compromise here and i think i have one what if we keep keep the cottage but we agree to a plan to then pay off this home more aggressively

I'm surprised by that plan, but I think that sounds

good.

Why are you surprised?

I thought we were going to be told to sell everything and pay off our primary.

Well, you're not in any kind of dire situation.

You're not broke.

You make $300,000.

You guys are killing it.

This is really an inheritance that he's just sort of rearranging.

And here's the, here's the, I loved, George and I, of course, this is all live.

I didn't know, I didn't know what he was going to say.

Usually I disagree with Ken and I'm the more aggressive one, and I'm actually pretty relaxed.

I couldn't agree more with George.

I want to be in this cottage in Cape Cod.

I do, too.

That was the first thing.

I wasn't involved.

A cottage in Cape Cod doesn't come along very often, was A.

B,

you told us that both you and your husband's hearts were in the cottage.

You were like, we love it.

And that was B for me.

That was like, oh, there's the one-two punch.

And then when I got the rest of the story,

again, we always try to give advice on what would we do if we were in your shoes.

And that's what I would do.

I would keep this cottage and have fun with it, make memories.

It's an asset.

I love the idea of him buying out his siblings.

I think that's great.

Your cash flowing that.

I just don't see any reason to not take this opportunity.

What's your mortgage payment every month?

It's around $4,000.

Okay, so making $310,000, amazing income.

Could we throw another $4,000 or $5,000 a month at this moment?

Could we just double it?

We could definitely take a look and get there.

I think if we looked at the budget and sit down with your husband and go, okay, here's the deal.

I called the Ramsey show.

Here's what they said.

We get to keep the cottage, but we pay off this house in six years.

Yeah, I think he would be completely on board.

He would be thrilled.

I'm going to throw a possibility that, again, I wouldn't do.

So I want to say that I wouldn't do this and you'll understand, but you could do it.

You guys could, if you own that cottage free and clear now, you're not going to be up there vacation all the time.

You could rent that and take that income and put it into the primary home and really speed this up.

In other words, let's, and this is way low, but let's say you cleared 50,000.

on that cottage from renting it and you put that towards your primary home just in one year.

I mean, mean, that's a pretty big chunk.

I would consider that.

I don't think that's a good idea.

We have considered that.

Yeah, we've considered renting because realistically, we'll probably only be there probably in four weeks.

Again, that's something I would want it to keep it as mine, and I don't want people ruining my rental.

But if you guys feel good about it, there's nothing, you're not violating any principles, and it could be a wise thing to do if you can make money off of it.

And it's paid for, so you're not trying to arbitrage and, you know, well, they're paying the mortgage for us.

You're covering the expenses just fine.

The only other thing I would would add to that is george and i would like the option of having a friends and family discount on said cottage

yes we have done that in the past before there was a lot of hesitation there for the camera

i think she thought i was serious i was kidding i would never do that i'm just a joke it was a bad joke yeah we're not gonna pay full price

anytime come on down no i love it i love this plan and i think

go use our mortgage payoff calculator at ramseysolutions.com and start to have some fun and dream with your husband and go okay if we did an extra four grand a a month, we doubled the payment, we could pay it off in like six years.

And likely what happens is you pay it off in four or five because you guys are so focused with one singular goal.

And I think that's that's the key here.

You be in agreement about every single decision and find some compromise.

That's okay.

Your husband's going to be thrilled.

I'd get him some turtlenecks, maybe some chowda, you know.

How do you say it, George?

That was pretty close.

Not bad.

Yeah.

I mean, Sarah doesn't have a thick Boston accent, so I feel like you're at least thicker than hers.

Oh, good.

I do like a thick chowder, though.

I do too.

I do too.

Thank you, Sarah.

Wicked, good call.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Ephesians 2, verses 4 and 5.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions.

It is by grace you have been saved.

Jordan Peterson said, It is my firm belief that the best way to fix the world, a handyman's dream if there ever was one, is to fix yourself.

There we go.

Classic Jordan Peterson.

He interrupted himself in the middle of that.

It's a handyman's dream.

It's a beautiful mind in there.

Yeah.

You know?

I tend to do the same, Ken.

We're on the same level of genius.

And it's interesting that anytime I see anything on social media of you or Jordan Peterson, I think of the other.

Thank you.

Yeah.

It's a symbiotic relationship.

I mean, you are an intellectual heavyweight.

What can I say?

You're no paperweight.

My rabbit trails are next level.

It's genius.

It's not a waste of time at all.

All I feel like this is going to be a very interesting call coming up.

I'm nervous.

Let's get to it.

Rebecca is in Portland, Maine.

How can we help, Rebecca?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

So, my boyfriend and I have been together for 11 years, living together for six.

I do live with him in his home that he owns.

He no longer has a mortgage payment.

When we moved in together, we did open

a joint account, and we just picked a random number that we would each put into the account each week.

That basically just covers utilities.

The taxes on the.

What kind of sick game is this?

You choose a random number?

What is this?

Powerball?

Hold on a second.

It can't be random if it is designed to cover utilities.

So we agreed each to put $350 a week.

So $700 goes into the account each week

that covers the cost of all of the utilities, the taxes on the house, our groceries come out of that.

And then, you know, if we go out to eat, we pay for it out of that account.

But we have our own separate accounts that we pay for vehicle payments, insurance, cell phones, stuff like that.

Okay.

So what's your question?

So, my question is:

recently, my boyfriend would like to make some upgrades to his house, replacing all of the windows.

There is a retaining wall that he would like

replaced, and he

feels that I should pay

$50 with him.

How about that?

He wants you to pay 50% of this?

I'm sorry?

He wants you to pay 50% of those expenses.

Correct.

And he owns the house free and clear.

Correct.

This is the weirdest relationship I think I've heard about in quite some time.

So let me rephrase this.

My landlord wants me to pay for his home upgrades and renovations.

50%.

And oh, by the way,

we got a little something working on the side.

This is like a friends with benefits gone awry.

Yeah, this guy hates commitment until it benefits him financially.

Yeah.

Team killed.

Well, let me ask you a question because we're on Team Rebecca because this is you called.

So we start out on your team.

You guys have been together, did you say 11 years?

And you've lived together for six.

Okay.

So

why isn't he putting a ring on your finger?

What is going on here?

So he actually did propose to me

six years ago.

And you said?

I did say yes,

but it really has not

gone further than that.

We did.

Wait, so are you engaged?

Yes.

We did have a couple little bumps in the road.

So it just kind of.

Because you said boyfriend, which tells me it's not a fiancé.

I agree.

The language matters here.

I think there's a statute of limitations on this.

I'm not sure either of you see each other as marriage material.

It sounds like this is an okay roommate situation at best.

Do you want to marry this guy?

Oh, boy.

If there was that level of hesitation with my wife, I'd be sleeping on the couch.

You do not have to say another word.

We already got our answer.

Are you wearing the ring?

I am not.

Okay.

So there's a sunk cost fallacy, if I had to guess.

You've been together 11 years.

It's what you know.

And it's just easier to do life with this person than to break free.

Yeah.

Is that correct for both of you, probably?

Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.

Okay.

Oh, so I think the conversation changes.

So let's answer your initial question.

No, you can tell this guy to pound rocks.

You guys have had some fights before.

This is a relationship that has zero future unless something dramatic changes.

That's what I've heard.

And tell him, I'm not going to

put money into a house that I don't own.

Yeah.

It's that simple.

I agree.

What is your share of equity in this home that you've built together and done renovations and repairs on?

It's zero.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If he gets pissed off and kicks you out tonight, you're in trouble as far as a place to live.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about if something happens to him.

If something happens to him, I

have

nowhere to go.

What do you mean if something happens?

Yeah, this is turning into a lifetime movie.

Should we have the ominous music playing right now?

Well, I mean, I'm 46.

He's 50.

I mean, I just, I'm thinking about my future.

And

if something happens, whether it be, you know, we break up, I, yeah, I mean, I'm 46.

I would like to have, you know.

What are you wanting out of life?

Do you want to be financially independent?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Are you, do you have any debt?

Just a car payment.

Okay.

What is your income and what do you do?

I am a dental hygienist.

Great.

And

last year I made $76,000.

Okay.

The year prior to that, it was $72,000.

So you could move out today and get a place on your own just fine.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Now, you do not have to answer this, but I think you're ready to answer it because we've already asked you, do you want to be with this guy?

And it was like crickets.

Okay.

So,

what is keeping you from breaking up with him or at least just moving out?

You know what?

Never mind.

I think I know what the answer to that is.

Let me ask a different question.

If he broke up with you today and said we're done, how would you feel about that?

Be honest.

So I think that I do have a little bit of a dependency.

You know, we've been living together

for a long time.

Well, I know.

I want you to tell me the real answer to that question.

I know why I changed my question.

And you thought about it for a second, which tells me I've done this a long time.

You had an answer, you just don't want to give it to me.

So then you went into politician mode.

I want you to answer the question as you just answered it in your head.

If he broke up with you tonight, what would be your real emotion?

And if it's two or three emotions, just lay it out there.

I'm going somewhere with this.

So hit me.

What would it be?

I would be afraid.

What else?

Overwhelmed.

Good.

What else?

Be honest.

After we got through that, the initial, you would be afraid.

We talked about that.

Dependency.

You've been with this guy a long time.

But what would be the other emotion that would be after that?

Say it.

We know you know.

Say it.

Just say it really quick.

We got to go.

Say it.

What is it?

I mean,

i think you'd be relieved and i think you're afraid to say it you would feel free there it is you would feel free you would feel this weight lifted off of you to go yes i'm scared of the future and i'm overwhelmed but good gosh this feels good and i'm not trying to break this relationship up but i think you got to listen to your heart and you need to get out on your own if this guy

woke up and smelled the coffee and changed towards you, maybe there's a future.

But I think you got to move out.

Go Go all over.

I'm not saying he's a terrible person and you're a gem of the human.

I'm just saying I think we've run its course with this relationship and it might be time to part ways as hard as it may be.

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